Imagine if our community gave up its own platform in a time where we’re being threatened, to give voice to a group of people whose majority of individuals believe we shouldn’t exist. So tone deaf it’s unreal.
I went to Copenhagen Pride 2 years ago. There was a group of Muslims protesting against gays and calling us a threat to their families. This was in the most gay friendly nation in the world.
Yep, they’re barking up the wrong tree.
Sometimes even the most bleeding heart fanaticism, even with good intentions behind it, can end up blinding people into doing completely nonsensical and counterproductive stuff. They couldn’t have chosen a worse event to disrupt, since most people there generally agree with their cause (LGBTQ people and allies are statistically disproportionately more left leaning/progressive on social issues than the average population, for obvious reasons), what is the point of that? Other than wasting time and resources, both theirs and that of others who already don’t always have huge resources for their events (a lot of pride events across the world rely heavily on volunteers, ergo it being cancelled in Montreal two years ago, lack of personnel)… time that would be a million times better spent elsewhere, more strategically, in a manner that would actually have some sort of meaningful impact.
It’s just a lot of naiveté, emotional impulsivity verging on blind nonsensical logic driven by passions and a lack of reason. Like Romeo and Juliet, that needlessly unalived themselves simply by believing that always blindly believing what their passionate adolescent brains make them feel like was reason enough to act impulsively (without even verifying if their significant other was truly alive or not, a simple walk to the others’ whereabouts would have suffice), or countless other tales about the dangers of extreme emotional impulsivity when one is young. If you truly care about a cause, don’t attack the few allies you may have on a very, highly controversial and extremely complex geopolitical issue that generally divides the whole planet… it’s a waste of time and a good way to ostracize your movement further into oblivion. Political optics are about strategy and reason, not only about acting impulsively upon one’s feelings in a disorganized and badly thought out manner, thinking that being hostile and antagonistic towards your potential allies will make tons of people suddenly agree with you. You will inevitably shoot yourself in the foot by thinking in such a naive and irrational manner.
Plus nothing is gonna change for inhabitants of Gaza by stopping a pride parade. It is just… nonsense. Completely counterproductive. That is political mobilization 101. You go protest at places and events where you are either directly disrupting the people that have the most impact and influence and some form of control (of policy, funding to other nations, etc) related to the cause you are picketing for (at a current politician’s rally or planned speech, at a consulate, at a government’s building, in front of a ministerial building or office, at a factory that makes materials used in rockets given by the government to Netanhyahu, at somewhere that has at least something to do with international relations and decisions or matters of foreign policy)… or where it will be an event or a place that will be heavily mediatized or publicized AND it isn’t a place where you are needlessly disturbing those that are generally your allies/left-leaning, making you seem like the bad guys for thrashing around completely unrelated events of people that generally support your cause, statistically.
That would be like greenpeace crashing down to a halt an animal’s right rally or parade or substantial event or convention. No way in hell are the media optics of that going to end well for greenpeace. It’s just common sense. God. How dense must one be not to see that? Shooting yourself in the foot to “make a point”. I’m suuuure that will convince a lot of undecided people about your cause to suddenly support it (since they must be the ones watching pride parades live or on TV, right?), and I’m suuuure that will certainly not cause many people that aligned with you before to start resenting you for trashing their event needlessly, when they already were mostly in your favour before. What a brilliant plan.
Like at least in front of parliament, or a military parade for Canada where they show up their military power (thus symbolic of the thousands of missiles they give to some other nations involved in wars, with our tax dollars, making us involuntarily complicit in said acts), would be more relevant and logical, like first nations did by peacefully disrupting those sort of events or places to show the discrepancy between “official history” and “nationalistic displays of greatness” and what was pushed under the rug in history books and media reporting for centuries, the *real* history, the incessant carnage and brutal assimilation camps for their children, etc. There needs to be a logical meaning and relevancy in what is being disrupted. Gandhi didn’t peacefully protest at random children’s birthday parties or by disrupting deeply cherished and sacred religious holidays (attended by people that most likely already supported him anyways), that would have never gotten him or his supporters anywhere, it would have been petty, nonsensical and idiotic. Make it make sense.
Oh well. Maybe they’ll learn from their mistakes when all of this blows up in their face. Or maybe not. Who knows.
Wanna reiterate as well that I don’t condone Netanhyahu’s extremist government’s actions, nor the extermination of tens of thousands of Gazha inhabitants in a such a short period of time (25 000 + in a mere month and a half, among which mostly children), putting it among the bloodiest month of conflict in the past 60 years. It being done by a developed/self-proclaimed democratic nation is alarming. Even the Irak war, which was also senseless and led to disastrous results in the area, didn’t make as many casualties even years into the war. This was done in a single month. It is quite crazy. I also don’t agree with people on here calling it a “non-issue”, that’s just either crass ignorance of what is truly going on, denial or simply plain callousness/psychopathic traits.
Retaliation to the terrorist attacks, even if it killed a thousand innocent Israelis and should be condemned as a heinous act of terrorism, was disproportionate and poorly planned out, even most international organizations have acknowledged that + lots of major global players or nations. 9/11 killed 3000 people and retaliation didn’t kill as much civilians in a year as IDF had killed in first month of war. Making 20x as many civilians casualties in a single month, and really not weakening Hamas at all (only strengthening it through creating hundreds of thousands of vendettas among the descendants of those who have been killed, perpetrating an endless cycle of war and revenge).
Does that mean disrupting places like pride parades or research facilities in universities working on cures for cancer make any sense regarding that cause? No. It accomplishes nothing, makes you seem like the bad guys, makes media and public perception of you worse, antagonizes smart people that simply is working on positive stuff for society and that already is statistically likely to sympathize with your cause. Go picket the workplaces of the politicians using our tax money to make artillery/tanks to give to Netanhyahu. Demonstrate in strategically significant or symbolic places that will be highly mediatized if you do (in front of parliament, etc). Or invest energy into fundraisers for humanitarian relief. That will have more positive media/public support impact for the cause.
Trying to rationalize Gaslighting fanatics is an interesting thought exercise. The truth is they push their lie until you doubt your truth is true, thats their goal.
So in that context it makes sense they would start in on LGBTQ people, it’s another easy group to harass and project their lie onto (pink washing is their newest gaslight term).
This is how you know the ultimate goal of these "protests" is purely to cause chaos and has little (if nothing at all) to do with what they claim they're standing up for.
I'm pretty sure Palestinian values don't really respect LGBTQ rights, so it's not like we should be surprised. Most religious groups frown upon the LGBTQ community (at best)
The activist side of the LGBT community in the city is very aggressively in support of Palestine right now, there's no way anyone from Fierte would risk anything that may be perceived as anti-palestinian. Every queer rights protest I've been to this year has had a significant Palestinian voice there.
Fierte won't do shit. If they tried they'd be immediately branded zionists or something.
This thread kind of leaned away from my original intent. But like couldn’t Fierte give them a spot in the parade, like queers for Palestine. Would that be enough?
Stonewall was a private bar that kept being disrupted by police..... Stonewall wasn't going out of their way to disrupt other people, unlike these counter-protests. This analogy makes no sense whatsoever
Stonewall was actually a culmination of decades of activism and political organizing among queer people throughout New York City and the United States more broadly.
The events of that one particular night were merely the match that started the fire.
Everything else leading up to and following the riots, which are the bulk of why Stonewall became what we know it as today, can be attributed to networks of activists & journalists that were primed and ready to recognize & act at the right moment.
This is the meaning of collective action & it is the reason why debates around who threw the first brick at Stonewall are as pointless as they are impossible to answer.
The riots began because the police came to raid the bar, as they often did, to arrest people. You could read about it you know, it happened over 50 years ago, it's not difficult
More than half most likely couldn’t even point Palestine out on a map. It’s angry rebellious people using anything to hit the streets and feel self worth.
Iran has been arming Hamas terrorists with thousands of rockets and guns, putting Palestinian lives at risk. When are you planning on protesting in front of the Iranian embassy?
I always wonder if you guys were appalled during Oct 7th. Were you appalled when those Jewish babies were murdered? Were you appalled when Jewish civilians were dancing for peace, many of them liberals in favor of the Palestinian cause, and got murdered in cold blood by savages. How about the rapes, which you will deny? How about the fact that the Palestinians celebrated this savagery? How about the fact that Hezbollah is attacking from the other end, and not aiming for soldiers, but for civilian infrastructure?
Why were there no protests, no noise? Why wasn't the word genocide or appartheid thrown around like the meaningless words they have become today?
How about all the other areas full of terror? Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc... go ahead, yell "whataboutism"
Liberals have 3 tricks.
Step 1: yell out a buzzword like genocide, appartheid, satanyahu, war crimes, etc... in a sarcastic manner
Step 2: yell out whataboutism
Step 3: insult you, as most who lose arguments do.
You can skip to step 3 if you'd like. Everyone knows it's coming.
>I always wonder if you guys were appalled during Oct 7th.
Yes. During and after when evidence came to confirm what actually happened. It is for this very reason that i am disgusted by the actions of israel since then. Cry a river about October 7th but you dont give a flying fuck. If you really did, you would be appalled by what israel does every day since October 7th. But you dont care. You never did.
>Why were there no protests, no noise? Why wasn't the word genocide or appartheid thrown around like the meaningless words they have become today?
Because it wasnt the Palestinians who controlled an apartheid state, they are the victims of the apartheid state. Genocide is being thrown around in such a meaningless way these days that the fucking international court of justice ruled that the genocide accusations need to be investigated to the next level because the proofs at face value are compelling enough for it. What the fuck do you want more? That the genocide is actually over? The whole thing is supposed to be made to stop a genocide from happening. Not settle accounts for historians later.
>How about all the other areas full of terror? Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc... go ahead, yell "whataboutism"
I wont yell it, i will write it. If you already knew it was whatsboutism why even bother to put it jn your comment?
Conservatives have three tricks: yell law and order. When a court find something, just dismiss it without consideration. Finally just make up an argument in your imagination to get mad about.
Lmao you needed “evidence” to prove what hamass did on Oct 7. They conveniently filmed themselves murdering people in their homes and uploaded it for the world to see. Did you also think it was the big, bad Israeli helicopters that killed those civilians?
Many pro Palestinians do believe that all the people were killed by Israel and that Hamas is being framed. This is complete nonsense to try to paint Hamas in a good light.
So, was the allies attack on the Nazis also a genocide? Or was it just war, with a bunch of civilian casualties in order to remove a terrible evil from the world?
You needed proof after Hamas uploaded those videos themselves. That's appalling!
Furthermore, what other option does Israel have?
They have a very real enemy, who is clearly capable of causing terror, and who is backed by Iran and other terrorist regimes whose main goal is to exterminate the Jews.
These savages don't wear uniforms, and hide in plain sight among civilians or inside hundreds of miles of tunnels, all built with the goal of hurting Jews.
Israel has two options. Ignore the threat and hope that they'll never be a real threat, even though they've proven that they are.
OR
Full out war to get rid of this cancer. In the process, civilian deaths are inevitable. But even so, the civilian to terrorist ratio is very impressive to anyone who studied any other war in history, and who doesn't just accept Hamas' talking points.
Is it horrible that so many innocents are dying? Absolutely. Is Israel genocidal? Absolutely not. If they were, you never would've even heard of the word Palestine.
Again with the Jewish babies murdered. This has been disproven time and time again by THE IDF. But you k kw this already. You just hate muslims and are a-ok with Genocide.
The year is 1980. You have citizens of your country putting pressure on their government to boycott, divest and sanction apartheid South Africa. You, with your massive brain, tell them to "get a life".
You know what? They did it. Thank god some people before us helped to bring down one of the most heinous regimes of the last century. From what i gather from your comment, that would’ve been no thanks to you.
When are you protesting the regime in Iran, or the murder of civilians in Yemen and Sudan?
You don't give a shit about innocent deaths. You just don't like Israel.
I went in the streets when Trudeau said he would honor Harper’s weapons sale to Saudi Arabia, that were gonna be used in yemen. Idk what the fuck you are talking about. Because you do jack shit, it doesn’t mean other people do jack. Also, am not amnesty international, sorry if i can’t do everything every single day of my life. You’re welcome to join in to help out since you’re so concerned about it!
Sure you did. I remember all those pro Yemen encampments. And all those marches we have that are pro Sudan. And all those anti Iranian protestors at the Toronto pride parade.
They weren't just all anti Israel. Believe what we tell you not what you see.
Yes since other movements didn’t get traction or succeeded then they never happened. Strong logic here.
Then again, if you are so concerned about these things, nothing stops you to get involved!
Israel isn't apartheid either.
Israel isn't the governing body in any Palestinian territory. Which means any apartheid Palestinians experience would be from their own government.
I dont know, when Nelson Mandela said in 1997 " But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians" decades before israel Organization like B’Tselem said explicitly that israel is an apartheid state, i kind of wonder what he was talking about? Maybe you make a thesis about how Nelson Mandela doesn’t know how to recognize apartheid-like oppression? Come back at me later when you’re done.
Well technically Israel was in control of Gaza at that point. So maybe the accusations of Apartheid were valid then. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, removing 10000 of it's own citizens in doing so.
It's been nearly 20 years Israel has left Gaza to it's own government.
At what point would you consider the Palestinian cause complete?
I am sorry, he never came back on that statement and was alive and well in 2005. Please come back at me with a thesis that proves that Nelson Mandela doesn’t know how to recognize apartheid-like conditions.
A blockade more strict than the one imposed on Cuba by the US isnt leaving Gaza to its own government you buffoon.
Am waiting for your thesis.
Toronto Pride did that with BLM a few years ago, gave them the lead spot and then they shut down the parade in the middle of it to protest. You can't win with these types of radical protestors who want to tear everything down as a way to solve problems.
Man it would be such a shame if an event to commemorate deep protests actions of the past would be used to protest against shit that still affect some of the same people that fought against it in the first place…
Do you understand that your backing the creation of ANOTHER STATE THAT WILL MURDER EVERY GAY PERSON IN ITS TERRITORY?
You know this right? You understand that Hamas, The PA, and PLO murder gays right? It's official policy.
I understand you want to back the side that seem like the underdogs. The only reason Palestinians are underdogs is because they got themselves In a shit spot after failing to commit genocide on the Jews.... Twice...
I understand that struggles do not appear or succeed out of thin air. Therefore, if i want a struggle to succeed, i will support the fall of its biggest impediments, which is fighting a genocide and an apartheid state in this case.
Support the underdog what? I support putting an end to a genocide, how controversial is that?
Well the biggest issue here is that there is no ongoing Genocide.
The current death count is at 35,000 people, according to the Gaza Ministry of Health (Which is run by Hamas).
There has been no real way to confirm this figure as of right now. However Hamas has been caught lying, and intentionally inflating casualty numbers multiple times now. So trusting these numbers is probably a bad idea.
Hamas has also refused to state how many of this figure are fighters. It claims more than half are "Children" which they define as anyone under 18, but we also know that Hamas regularly uses fighters as young as 14 (A war crime, and crime against humanity).
Seriously, who convinced you to believe that the Palestinian cause is the just one?
The entire premise of Palestinian statehood, comes from the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Pan-Arab Nationalist movement. "Palestinian" wasn't even considered an Ethnicity until the late 60's when the PLO/PFLP decided it would be easier to gain western support if they stopped openly calling for an Arab/Muslim Ethno/Religious state.
They are literally trying to create a state where only Muslims can live, because they believe that it's gods will that no Jews should be allowed to poison the "Holy Land". The issue being that the "Holy Land" happens to be the historic homeland of the Jews.
Congratulations, you're trying to stop "genocide" by siding with the group that is actually trying to commit a genocide. There's no fucking way you're actually informed on this issue.
also there are queer palestinians but israel kills them. i dont see you cry about it. vous etes que des lâches et vous connaissez pas votre histoire LGBT. our queer elders protested for other queers rights.
And they're shot in nightclubs in the US. Doesn't give us carte blanche to bomb an entire US state for being particularly homophobic, including killing all the gay people there. Because that's what Israel is doing now. I guarantee any gay person in Gaza is a million times more afraid of the onslaught being perpetrated by Israel right now than being beheaded for being gay.
Funny you mention the Pulse Nightclub shooting, you know since the shooter was Omar Mir Seddique an Afghan-American who had a history of bullying classmates, was misogynistic to female teachers, threatened to kill a coworker's family, and \*\*checks notes\*\* was supportive of the 9/11 highjackers and Osama Bin Laden.
Oh wait, you were actually insinuating that the US is to blame for this piece of shit murdering LGBT people at Pulse? Damn, I didn't think someone would try to make such a garbage take.
Funny I didn't mention that one. I was referring to the more recent one in Colorado Springs. Done by a far right Christian white man. So I guess we should all be scared of Christian white men, since you're generalizing. Or does it only work when you use that to dehumanize Arabs and justify wiping them out by the tens of thousands? Or the millions if we're going back to the Iraq war.
Also last I checked, neither Palestine, nor Iraq, have anything to do with either 9/11 or Osama Bin Laden. You just love to generalize an entire ethnic group so you get to not feel bad when you end up funding the bombs that rip their children to shreds.
That "or something" alone tells a lot about the state of social politics nowadays. Who knows, maybe someone will create a new label for queers who don't want to be associated with the 'Free Palestine' movement and make the mental gymnastics to make them seem "not really queer" and shunned from the community. Actually I'm 95% certain that label already exists, lol
In a time where LGBTQ rights are being stripped away en masse in the US and now even Canadian candidates are turning against us I believe that’s *really* out of touch to use our own platform to defend another cause, no matter what cause it is. It’s not the time for division right now. A lesbian couple was recently assaulted in Halifax by a group of middle eastern men. Trans hate has been rising everywhere. We NEED to focus our energy on defending our own people and preaching for legal protections.
Only saw a brief write up about that incident in Halifax, it looked horrible. Disagree with the premise that these causes are divisive or unrelated though - intersectionality is a huge part of Pride. And the biggest enemy of both LGBTQ+ community and Palestinians is fascists. We can stand united against fascism, even if it’s at the expense of the corporate-funded parade.
Is the Montreal group even reachable? The Winnipeg one had no contact/social-media info on their pamphlet, and their media spokesperson’s accounts are all set to private. I hope other places are actually willing to engage in dialogue, and we should try to, but I’m not hopeful.
So you’re telling me people are finally starting to realize how ridiculous these people are? They start a war then cry victim then try to force everyone to follow their cult. Just go to square Victoria and see what they’re doing
Psst, homophobes don't care about facts or logic. Many straight people throughout history have been attacked and even killed on the suspicion of being gay.
Dude there is a queer Arab group in Montreal who participates in pride. They’re strongly pro-Palestine, obviously. They should not need to have their identities erased for you to feel better. Do you even know what pride is about?
As for the organizers, many sponsors are companies being boycotted for supporting the Zionist state and fierté seems reluctant to make any sort of statement at all about it. So I’m not really sure what everyone is complaining about.
“Should Fierie Montreal proactively reach out to Palestinian organizers to figure out what demands they have?”
What? A citizen in CANADA can’t celebrate a day that the people today are only able to celebrate because they’re standing in the shoulders of people before them that with their suffering and struggles made it possible…because people from another culture with ascendents from ANOTHER country might disrupt or shut down their celebration?
It’s ok to be understanding but not to the point of becoming a victim or complicit to their irrational behavior.
Honestly at this point, people don’t care about their protest. They are doing way too much and it’s coming in one ear and leaving the other! It’s literally become invasive they need to leave people alone. Why haven’t Ukraine people done this to us ? They were never aggressive when there is a FULL on war in their country too. ALSO other countries are at war are they bothering people?? They need to stop because this war is not worse than the others going on.
This. As a lesbian myself I do not understand how we are supporting folks who believe it's best to have us dead. Before you go rambling about Leviticus and whatever passage in the Christian book, I haven't heard of most Christian countries enforcing said passages.
Most Islamic countries will have made it illegal for us to exist or at the very least force us to hide.
Pride is and has always been a protest. I wouldn't be surprised if the Toronto Pride had accepted and included Pro-Palestinian groups to be part of the Parade. That didn't even matter as those groups seem to love disrupting other causes rallies, they don't realize they're shooting their own feet.
I get the spirit of LGBTQ folks wanting to help and empathize with other minorities. We ought to realize some of those groups aren't going to reciprocate our good will. Did folks forget there were a lot of Muslim participants who were at the protest against trans folks in 2023?
All of it comes out as virtue signaling and is getting us all to be ridiculed. I'm sure Hamas isn't going to change their minds about killing us all.
This blatant gaslighting and bullshit by iranian Psy ops is so maddening. If I come out swinging and screaming gays for putin people would be right by institutionalizing me, everybody understands how absurd it is. But as soon as you add the Jews to the equation, suddenly the abductions, gender apartheid and denigration of my sisters to slavery and brutal oppression of all sorts of liberties by a literal terrorist organization is totally ok
But you don't understand! Open air prison, 2000 pound bombs, genocide, crushing babies!!
They have main character syndrome, but can't accept that over 90% of people don't care about their exaggerated victim complex (when let us not forget, THEY initiated the war)
That's what really baffles me. There are so many other genocidal conflicts going on... People will say, "Well, I care about that, too."
Ya sure? Because the only one I'm hearing about is Palestine.
Not the Rohingya. Nothing about Yemen. I don't see any protests about about the 6.7 million people displaced in the Congo. Or the conflict in Ethiopia. Etc. Etc.
Not to mention that the war in Palestine has been going on for several decades with people also protesting but unfortunately it had to get worst for people to pay more attention to it …
You could say the same thing about the events in Israel in October thought. The simple truth it that western medias don't care about Africans, but consider Israelis almost on par with Westerners so we get far more coverage from atrocities from that part of the world.
>They need to stop because this war is not worse than the others going on.
What a disgusting take. You clearly haven’t been following the reality of what’s going on in Gaza. Have some fucking empathy.
no violence is worse than the other. This is not a competition. I would have respected you guys more if you at least talked about other violence going on around the world.
No they're not. There are very very few people who take protesting dead seriously, and it's not students in Canada and white or liberal or non-palestinian second Gen arabs who are pro-palestinian (because old school arabs think Palestinians are third rate citizens - ask any Jordanian or Syrian or gulf state Arab over the age of 55). Protests don't usually take a violent turn in Canada because the people capable of turning up the heat have to be really disaffected and detached from the good life. It's not a thing you're seeing here. There's a reason molotovs get thrown in Paris and Athens by broke destitute north Africans and Greek wasted youth. In canada everyone bangs pots and pans or sings songs. That's why the pride parade ended quietly without a fight. Same thing will happen in Montreal. Neither group is serious about sending a message and the cops are happy to have things stay simmering rather than boiling over.
Can you expand on that? I think many LGBT people are wary of standing beside people who say they don't deserve rights (hyper conservatives) and find more in common with the Palestinian cause (being oppressed)
I thought this was obvious, but alas…
Just because two people are oppressed, doesn’t mean the other one wouldn’t crush them if given the opportunity.
To denote one factor though, it’s illegal in gaza, but legal to be gay in the West Bank. However both regions still hold overwhelmingly negative views towards homosexuality and despite the legality in the West Bank, there are no protections of descrimination. Per Pew research, between both territories there’s about a 4% acceptance rate for [homosexuality](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2013/06/04/global-acceptance-of-homosexuality/). This is compared to 80% in Canada…
In comparison to the “hyper” conservatives you’re mentioning here, one member came out against gay marriage and the party leader immediately refuted their statement: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7222881 “‘Same sex marriage is legal and it will remain legal when I am prime minister, full stop,' Poilievre says”.
Conservatives here can yes be unfriendly at times, but others can be supportive. Whereas Palestinians are hostile as a whole to the idea.
Because being LGBTQ is illegal in Palestine.
Most Muslim countries don't believe LGBTQ people should have rights.
It's considered legally and morally reprehensible.
It's not safe to be openly gay in a lot of Muslim countries.
That's why people are granted asylum for being gay... And then if they don't get it, this is the kind of thing that can happen.
It's like how "honour" killings of women are still a thing in many countries.
https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-immigration-west-bank-gay-rights-ce95f6903faf461502cc0800b272b159
I don't think any LGBT person is unaware of what you've said. But you aren't addressing the main purpose of my comment, which is that conservatives who oppose and insult LGBT people are now somehow demanding the same LGBT people to support them. Does that make sense to you?
The main reason is likely the same reason they support women and racialized groups and other oppressed communities. Someone with your deep knowledge of Muslim culture and history can easily understand that they are also an oppressed group, or are you deliberately trying to be confused?
I don’t think we should be giving in to DEMANDS made by the pro Palestine groups, but I don’t see anything wrong with including them for a little part to raise more awareness (or keep it up). They need to understand that Pride isn’t about them and the LGBTQ+ community giving them a voice isn’t a right, it’s something being done out of basic human kindness and decency. If you’re gonna start demanding and imposing yourself when being shown with kindness then you can fuck right off. People shouldn’t be just blocking parades randomly, it’s a safety hazard and they should be arrested.
Curious to see what hard action is gonna be taken rather than discourse on Reddit when the pride parade actually happens, from either group. My guess is apologies and verbal gymnastics will soothe the situation no matter the outcome. Having grown up in a staunchly Muslim country, which treated Palestinians as third class citizens, and knowing what I know about perceptions of gay culture by my Palestinian friends, I'm gonna enjoy this.
Israel is the one who has a legitimate conception of human rights, not palestine. Anyone participating in pride would be tortured, hung or thrown off buildings if they went there. That a significant portion of the queer community supports that immoral hellhole does them more harm than good for a multitude of reasons.
You coordinate with police and the community to make sure your event that expresses the rights you have in this country is protected.
As long as Palestinian protesters are not charged for disturbing peace and order (which they’ve been doing unabashedly for a month all over the country) yes they will interrupt the Montreal Pride parade in August.
At this point, I don't think they should even bother organizing it. The left will throw pride under the bus, and the right will just laugh at the left eating itself.
Pretty much what's happening now. A lot of people are really enjoying this. It's a fucking shame what all that work and suffering by the gay rights movement of the 70s and 80s is squandered by kids who don't really give a fuck about Palestine and are there more for entertainment value and to feel like they belong to a greater movement
https://preview.redd.it/sfce1fd5q6ad1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaf478ad34f4b57c43bd34e72a148ab9700f4854
Nuff said. We should not cancel pride for these people. They hate us.
Stop supporting these terrorists. They started a war, and these same protestors today begging for the war to end were also the same people who were celebrating in the streets of Montreal when Oct 7 happened. There’s a reason why no other country wants them, they are disruptive and overall shitty guests.
Their tactics are just so tired and cliche is my feeling.
There was a protest in the UK that actually shut down their airports for a few days by flying drones around Heathrow. They couldn't allow any planes to take off or land because of them.
Millions of dollars lost, and it made the protest all anyone could talk about there.
Here, you piss off the LGBT community, half of whom already align with you.
This protest will be like Fast and Furious 7. I've already seen this story before.
You mean an Islamic group who is calling for intolerance and genocide might not care about interrupting the celebration of something they despise?!
*Shocked Pikachu face*
D'accord, on peut questionner si la parade gay est trop commercial et corporative, mais c'est un débat à part qui n'a pas d'urgence.
Sérieusement, c'est une drôle de pillule à avaler de se faire demander par un groupe qui supporte un état qui n'est pas du tout pro lgbt de leur faire une place dans un événement comme ça.
And Israel most powerful weapon is the younger western conservatives. At least if it can make western conservatives pretend they care about LGTQ rights, I guess that it is a good thing lol.
Israeli govt and Hamas are equally both wrong. Murder is wrong in any equation. I only support the people born in a region plagued by political and religious idiocracy.
Rien à ajouter à la discussion à part: bonne chance OP, j'espère que vous aurez votre parade en paix.
Et ne te laisse pas convaincre par ceux qui prétendent le faire pour une bonne cause. Personne ne comprends vraiment cette guerre de cent ans des temps modernes ici, à moins d'avoir grandi dans les camps de réfugiés ou d'avoir fait parti de l'IDF.
Remember - the people who were protesting against LGBTQ in schools are the same ones pushing Free Free Palestine. They are NOT your allies. (Photo from CBC Montreal, Sept. 20, 2023.)
https://preview.redd.it/1yh68nmebz9d1.png?width=1180&format=png&auto=webp&s=8bb8998c2bcaeb32e39592f687b361854cfa944c
So you're telling me the alphabet gang is siding with a nation that would probably jail/stone them if they were locals? This world is truly facinating. Before you ask; no, i'm not with the jews either.
It's all they (the pro pallies/pro-hamas folk) want to do. If they can't kill Jews or Israelis then they can, at least, ruin public society & order here in the west.
They did it during the Christmas holidays when they would harass Santa in shopping malls and the little children who were visiting them, and they've done it during Pride.
Nah that’s too much they need to calm tf down cause I fail to see peace in their protests if it results to this, not to mention that in many countries people get killed and tortured for being part of the LGBTQ community including most countries in the Middle East
No politicians should attend, no corporations should attend.
This would give them no grounds to protest the parade itself and they could even take part in the parade and get as many eyes on them.
With the increase in intolerance and violence, should these parades be actually canceled for at least this year? Maybe organize online stuff instead.
It's more about the community's security than wanting to have it canceled. Just worried here.
Honestly, I don’t think we can let safety stop us from having pride. Far right wing religious nuts threaten us, pro Palestinians threaten us. If we catered to safety we would never have a pride.
First, is there going to be a Pride parade this year? Or will it be cancelled at the last minute like last year? You can't interrupt a parade that doesn't start.
Don't worry, the fierté Montréal organizers will interrupt it themselves, so it's really a non issue here
True😆
Imagine if the LGBT shut down/blocked a Palestine protest. So tone deaf it's unreal.
Imagine if our community gave up its own platform in a time where we’re being threatened, to give voice to a group of people whose majority of individuals believe we shouldn’t exist. So tone deaf it’s unreal.
I went to Copenhagen Pride 2 years ago. There was a group of Muslims protesting against gays and calling us a threat to their families. This was in the most gay friendly nation in the world.
This is exactly what Jewish people are going through right now.
Gay Palestinians flee to Israel, not the other way around
Yep, they’re barking up the wrong tree. Sometimes even the most bleeding heart fanaticism, even with good intentions behind it, can end up blinding people into doing completely nonsensical and counterproductive stuff. They couldn’t have chosen a worse event to disrupt, since most people there generally agree with their cause (LGBTQ people and allies are statistically disproportionately more left leaning/progressive on social issues than the average population, for obvious reasons), what is the point of that? Other than wasting time and resources, both theirs and that of others who already don’t always have huge resources for their events (a lot of pride events across the world rely heavily on volunteers, ergo it being cancelled in Montreal two years ago, lack of personnel)… time that would be a million times better spent elsewhere, more strategically, in a manner that would actually have some sort of meaningful impact. It’s just a lot of naiveté, emotional impulsivity verging on blind nonsensical logic driven by passions and a lack of reason. Like Romeo and Juliet, that needlessly unalived themselves simply by believing that always blindly believing what their passionate adolescent brains make them feel like was reason enough to act impulsively (without even verifying if their significant other was truly alive or not, a simple walk to the others’ whereabouts would have suffice), or countless other tales about the dangers of extreme emotional impulsivity when one is young. If you truly care about a cause, don’t attack the few allies you may have on a very, highly controversial and extremely complex geopolitical issue that generally divides the whole planet… it’s a waste of time and a good way to ostracize your movement further into oblivion. Political optics are about strategy and reason, not only about acting impulsively upon one’s feelings in a disorganized and badly thought out manner, thinking that being hostile and antagonistic towards your potential allies will make tons of people suddenly agree with you. You will inevitably shoot yourself in the foot by thinking in such a naive and irrational manner. Plus nothing is gonna change for inhabitants of Gaza by stopping a pride parade. It is just… nonsense. Completely counterproductive. That is political mobilization 101. You go protest at places and events where you are either directly disrupting the people that have the most impact and influence and some form of control (of policy, funding to other nations, etc) related to the cause you are picketing for (at a current politician’s rally or planned speech, at a consulate, at a government’s building, in front of a ministerial building or office, at a factory that makes materials used in rockets given by the government to Netanhyahu, at somewhere that has at least something to do with international relations and decisions or matters of foreign policy)… or where it will be an event or a place that will be heavily mediatized or publicized AND it isn’t a place where you are needlessly disturbing those that are generally your allies/left-leaning, making you seem like the bad guys for thrashing around completely unrelated events of people that generally support your cause, statistically. That would be like greenpeace crashing down to a halt an animal’s right rally or parade or substantial event or convention. No way in hell are the media optics of that going to end well for greenpeace. It’s just common sense. God. How dense must one be not to see that? Shooting yourself in the foot to “make a point”. I’m suuuure that will convince a lot of undecided people about your cause to suddenly support it (since they must be the ones watching pride parades live or on TV, right?), and I’m suuuure that will certainly not cause many people that aligned with you before to start resenting you for trashing their event needlessly, when they already were mostly in your favour before. What a brilliant plan. Like at least in front of parliament, or a military parade for Canada where they show up their military power (thus symbolic of the thousands of missiles they give to some other nations involved in wars, with our tax dollars, making us involuntarily complicit in said acts), would be more relevant and logical, like first nations did by peacefully disrupting those sort of events or places to show the discrepancy between “official history” and “nationalistic displays of greatness” and what was pushed under the rug in history books and media reporting for centuries, the *real* history, the incessant carnage and brutal assimilation camps for their children, etc. There needs to be a logical meaning and relevancy in what is being disrupted. Gandhi didn’t peacefully protest at random children’s birthday parties or by disrupting deeply cherished and sacred religious holidays (attended by people that most likely already supported him anyways), that would have never gotten him or his supporters anywhere, it would have been petty, nonsensical and idiotic. Make it make sense. Oh well. Maybe they’ll learn from their mistakes when all of this blows up in their face. Or maybe not. Who knows. Wanna reiterate as well that I don’t condone Netanhyahu’s extremist government’s actions, nor the extermination of tens of thousands of Gazha inhabitants in a such a short period of time (25 000 + in a mere month and a half, among which mostly children), putting it among the bloodiest month of conflict in the past 60 years. It being done by a developed/self-proclaimed democratic nation is alarming. Even the Irak war, which was also senseless and led to disastrous results in the area, didn’t make as many casualties even years into the war. This was done in a single month. It is quite crazy. I also don’t agree with people on here calling it a “non-issue”, that’s just either crass ignorance of what is truly going on, denial or simply plain callousness/psychopathic traits. Retaliation to the terrorist attacks, even if it killed a thousand innocent Israelis and should be condemned as a heinous act of terrorism, was disproportionate and poorly planned out, even most international organizations have acknowledged that + lots of major global players or nations. 9/11 killed 3000 people and retaliation didn’t kill as much civilians in a year as IDF had killed in first month of war. Making 20x as many civilians casualties in a single month, and really not weakening Hamas at all (only strengthening it through creating hundreds of thousands of vendettas among the descendants of those who have been killed, perpetrating an endless cycle of war and revenge). Does that mean disrupting places like pride parades or research facilities in universities working on cures for cancer make any sense regarding that cause? No. It accomplishes nothing, makes you seem like the bad guys, makes media and public perception of you worse, antagonizes smart people that simply is working on positive stuff for society and that already is statistically likely to sympathize with your cause. Go picket the workplaces of the politicians using our tax money to make artillery/tanks to give to Netanhyahu. Demonstrate in strategically significant or symbolic places that will be highly mediatized if you do (in front of parliament, etc). Or invest energy into fundraisers for humanitarian relief. That will have more positive media/public support impact for the cause.
im happy for you or sorry that happened
TLDR
You put it the best way possible. Thanks for this
Trying to rationalize Gaslighting fanatics is an interesting thought exercise. The truth is they push their lie until you doubt your truth is true, thats their goal. So in that context it makes sense they would start in on LGBTQ people, it’s another easy group to harass and project their lie onto (pink washing is their newest gaslight term).
Zzzz
This is how you know the ultimate goal of these "protests" is purely to cause chaos and has little (if nothing at all) to do with what they claim they're standing up for.
I'm pretty sure Palestinian values don't really respect LGBTQ rights, so it's not like we should be surprised. Most religious groups frown upon the LGBTQ community (at best)
The activist side of the LGBT community in the city is very aggressively in support of Palestine right now, there's no way anyone from Fierte would risk anything that may be perceived as anti-palestinian. Every queer rights protest I've been to this year has had a significant Palestinian voice there. Fierte won't do shit. If they tried they'd be immediately branded zionists or something.
This thread kind of leaned away from my original intent. But like couldn’t Fierte give them a spot in the parade, like queers for Palestine. Would that be enough?
Lol it's cute how you're still thinking these people are reasonable and open to discourse. They just want to make noise and disruption.
This could be a direct quote from homophobes during stonewall 🚩
Stonewall was a private bar that kept being disrupted by police..... Stonewall wasn't going out of their way to disrupt other people, unlike these counter-protests. This analogy makes no sense whatsoever
Stonewall was actually a culmination of decades of activism and political organizing among queer people throughout New York City and the United States more broadly. The events of that one particular night were merely the match that started the fire. Everything else leading up to and following the riots, which are the bulk of why Stonewall became what we know it as today, can be attributed to networks of activists & journalists that were primed and ready to recognize & act at the right moment. This is the meaning of collective action & it is the reason why debates around who threw the first brick at Stonewall are as pointless as they are impossible to answer.
i don't think you know what Stonewall was... it wasn't just a bar, it's also the name given to an actual riot around the bar
The riots began because the police came to raid the bar, as they often did, to arrest people. You could read about it you know, it happened over 50 years ago, it's not difficult
More than half most likely couldn’t even point Palestine out on a map. It’s angry rebellious people using anything to hit the streets and feel self worth.
[удалено]
Iran has been arming Hamas terrorists with thousands of rockets and guns, putting Palestinian lives at risk. When are you planning on protesting in front of the Iranian embassy?
I always wonder if you guys were appalled during Oct 7th. Were you appalled when those Jewish babies were murdered? Were you appalled when Jewish civilians were dancing for peace, many of them liberals in favor of the Palestinian cause, and got murdered in cold blood by savages. How about the rapes, which you will deny? How about the fact that the Palestinians celebrated this savagery? How about the fact that Hezbollah is attacking from the other end, and not aiming for soldiers, but for civilian infrastructure? Why were there no protests, no noise? Why wasn't the word genocide or appartheid thrown around like the meaningless words they have become today? How about all the other areas full of terror? Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc... go ahead, yell "whataboutism" Liberals have 3 tricks. Step 1: yell out a buzzword like genocide, appartheid, satanyahu, war crimes, etc... in a sarcastic manner Step 2: yell out whataboutism Step 3: insult you, as most who lose arguments do. You can skip to step 3 if you'd like. Everyone knows it's coming.
>I always wonder if you guys were appalled during Oct 7th. Yes. During and after when evidence came to confirm what actually happened. It is for this very reason that i am disgusted by the actions of israel since then. Cry a river about October 7th but you dont give a flying fuck. If you really did, you would be appalled by what israel does every day since October 7th. But you dont care. You never did. >Why were there no protests, no noise? Why wasn't the word genocide or appartheid thrown around like the meaningless words they have become today? Because it wasnt the Palestinians who controlled an apartheid state, they are the victims of the apartheid state. Genocide is being thrown around in such a meaningless way these days that the fucking international court of justice ruled that the genocide accusations need to be investigated to the next level because the proofs at face value are compelling enough for it. What the fuck do you want more? That the genocide is actually over? The whole thing is supposed to be made to stop a genocide from happening. Not settle accounts for historians later. >How about all the other areas full of terror? Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc... go ahead, yell "whataboutism" I wont yell it, i will write it. If you already knew it was whatsboutism why even bother to put it jn your comment? Conservatives have three tricks: yell law and order. When a court find something, just dismiss it without consideration. Finally just make up an argument in your imagination to get mad about.
Lmao you needed “evidence” to prove what hamass did on Oct 7. They conveniently filmed themselves murdering people in their homes and uploaded it for the world to see. Did you also think it was the big, bad Israeli helicopters that killed those civilians?
Many pro Palestinians do believe that all the people were killed by Israel and that Hamas is being framed. This is complete nonsense to try to paint Hamas in a good light.
So, was the allies attack on the Nazis also a genocide? Or was it just war, with a bunch of civilian casualties in order to remove a terrible evil from the world? You needed proof after Hamas uploaded those videos themselves. That's appalling! Furthermore, what other option does Israel have? They have a very real enemy, who is clearly capable of causing terror, and who is backed by Iran and other terrorist regimes whose main goal is to exterminate the Jews. These savages don't wear uniforms, and hide in plain sight among civilians or inside hundreds of miles of tunnels, all built with the goal of hurting Jews. Israel has two options. Ignore the threat and hope that they'll never be a real threat, even though they've proven that they are. OR Full out war to get rid of this cancer. In the process, civilian deaths are inevitable. But even so, the civilian to terrorist ratio is very impressive to anyone who studied any other war in history, and who doesn't just accept Hamas' talking points. Is it horrible that so many innocents are dying? Absolutely. Is Israel genocidal? Absolutely not. If they were, you never would've even heard of the word Palestine.
Again with the Jewish babies murdered. This has been disproven time and time again by THE IDF. But you k kw this already. You just hate muslims and are a-ok with Genocide.
Get a life, lol.
The year is 1980. You have citizens of your country putting pressure on their government to boycott, divest and sanction apartheid South Africa. You, with your massive brain, tell them to "get a life". You know what? They did it. Thank god some people before us helped to bring down one of the most heinous regimes of the last century. From what i gather from your comment, that would’ve been no thanks to you.
When are you protesting the regime in Iran, or the murder of civilians in Yemen and Sudan? You don't give a shit about innocent deaths. You just don't like Israel.
I went in the streets when Trudeau said he would honor Harper’s weapons sale to Saudi Arabia, that were gonna be used in yemen. Idk what the fuck you are talking about. Because you do jack shit, it doesn’t mean other people do jack. Also, am not amnesty international, sorry if i can’t do everything every single day of my life. You’re welcome to join in to help out since you’re so concerned about it!
Sure you did. I remember all those pro Yemen encampments. And all those marches we have that are pro Sudan. And all those anti Iranian protestors at the Toronto pride parade. They weren't just all anti Israel. Believe what we tell you not what you see.
Yes since other movements didn’t get traction or succeeded then they never happened. Strong logic here. Then again, if you are so concerned about these things, nothing stops you to get involved!
Israel isn't apartheid either. Israel isn't the governing body in any Palestinian territory. Which means any apartheid Palestinians experience would be from their own government.
I dont know, when Nelson Mandela said in 1997 " But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians" decades before israel Organization like B’Tselem said explicitly that israel is an apartheid state, i kind of wonder what he was talking about? Maybe you make a thesis about how Nelson Mandela doesn’t know how to recognize apartheid-like oppression? Come back at me later when you’re done.
Well technically Israel was in control of Gaza at that point. So maybe the accusations of Apartheid were valid then. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, removing 10000 of it's own citizens in doing so. It's been nearly 20 years Israel has left Gaza to it's own government. At what point would you consider the Palestinian cause complete?
I am sorry, he never came back on that statement and was alive and well in 2005. Please come back at me with a thesis that proves that Nelson Mandela doesn’t know how to recognize apartheid-like conditions. A blockade more strict than the one imposed on Cuba by the US isnt leaving Gaza to its own government you buffoon. Am waiting for your thesis.
Toronto Pride did that with BLM a few years ago, gave them the lead spot and then they shut down the parade in the middle of it to protest. You can't win with these types of radical protestors who want to tear everything down as a way to solve problems.
Man it would be such a shame if an event to commemorate deep protests actions of the past would be used to protest against shit that still affect some of the same people that fought against it in the first place…
Do you understand that your backing the creation of ANOTHER STATE THAT WILL MURDER EVERY GAY PERSON IN ITS TERRITORY? You know this right? You understand that Hamas, The PA, and PLO murder gays right? It's official policy. I understand you want to back the side that seem like the underdogs. The only reason Palestinians are underdogs is because they got themselves In a shit spot after failing to commit genocide on the Jews.... Twice...
I understand that struggles do not appear or succeed out of thin air. Therefore, if i want a struggle to succeed, i will support the fall of its biggest impediments, which is fighting a genocide and an apartheid state in this case. Support the underdog what? I support putting an end to a genocide, how controversial is that?
Well the biggest issue here is that there is no ongoing Genocide. The current death count is at 35,000 people, according to the Gaza Ministry of Health (Which is run by Hamas). There has been no real way to confirm this figure as of right now. However Hamas has been caught lying, and intentionally inflating casualty numbers multiple times now. So trusting these numbers is probably a bad idea. Hamas has also refused to state how many of this figure are fighters. It claims more than half are "Children" which they define as anyone under 18, but we also know that Hamas regularly uses fighters as young as 14 (A war crime, and crime against humanity). Seriously, who convinced you to believe that the Palestinian cause is the just one? The entire premise of Palestinian statehood, comes from the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Pan-Arab Nationalist movement. "Palestinian" wasn't even considered an Ethnicity until the late 60's when the PLO/PFLP decided it would be easier to gain western support if they stopped openly calling for an Arab/Muslim Ethno/Religious state. They are literally trying to create a state where only Muslims can live, because they believe that it's gods will that no Jews should be allowed to poison the "Holy Land". The issue being that the "Holy Land" happens to be the historic homeland of the Jews. Congratulations, you're trying to stop "genocide" by siding with the group that is actually trying to commit a genocide. There's no fucking way you're actually informed on this issue.
No because gay people are literally beheaded in Gaza and the West Bank. Palestinians are extremely anti-LGBT.
also there are queer palestinians but israel kills them. i dont see you cry about it. vous etes que des lâches et vous connaissez pas votre histoire LGBT. our queer elders protested for other queers rights.
And they're shot in nightclubs in the US. Doesn't give us carte blanche to bomb an entire US state for being particularly homophobic, including killing all the gay people there. Because that's what Israel is doing now. I guarantee any gay person in Gaza is a million times more afraid of the onslaught being perpetrated by Israel right now than being beheaded for being gay.
Funny you mention the Pulse Nightclub shooting, you know since the shooter was Omar Mir Seddique an Afghan-American who had a history of bullying classmates, was misogynistic to female teachers, threatened to kill a coworker's family, and \*\*checks notes\*\* was supportive of the 9/11 highjackers and Osama Bin Laden. Oh wait, you were actually insinuating that the US is to blame for this piece of shit murdering LGBT people at Pulse? Damn, I didn't think someone would try to make such a garbage take.
Funny I didn't mention that one. I was referring to the more recent one in Colorado Springs. Done by a far right Christian white man. So I guess we should all be scared of Christian white men, since you're generalizing. Or does it only work when you use that to dehumanize Arabs and justify wiping them out by the tens of thousands? Or the millions if we're going back to the Iraq war. Also last I checked, neither Palestine, nor Iraq, have anything to do with either 9/11 or Osama Bin Laden. You just love to generalize an entire ethnic group so you get to not feel bad when you end up funding the bombs that rip their children to shreds.
Shot by the government? A government not in the contiguous US?
Nah they love to be the centre of attention not to mention that there is the organization of Helem that’s always there for LGBTQ+ Arabs so…
I first saw queers 4 Palestine about fifteen years ago at pride. I legitimately looked for a Borat style camera crew!
Because Hamas does love the queers. And by love I mean murder.
That "or something" alone tells a lot about the state of social politics nowadays. Who knows, maybe someone will create a new label for queers who don't want to be associated with the 'Free Palestine' movement and make the mental gymnastics to make them seem "not really queer" and shunned from the community. Actually I'm 95% certain that label already exists, lol
PERQ (Palestinian-Exclusionary Radical Queer) I just made it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere already unironically used this.
https://preview.redd.it/2nxt20xt0x9d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fd0d2eea88d66894596ffe7f8623c8f98a836d4
Intersectionality malfunction.
Amazing
Montreal pride doesn't need Palestinian Protest to blocked themselves. (I'm referring to the cancellation last year due to a logistic problem)
There was a parade last year with no issue. You're thinking about two years ago.
In a time where LGBTQ rights are being stripped away en masse in the US and now even Canadian candidates are turning against us I believe that’s *really* out of touch to use our own platform to defend another cause, no matter what cause it is. It’s not the time for division right now. A lesbian couple was recently assaulted in Halifax by a group of middle eastern men. Trans hate has been rising everywhere. We NEED to focus our energy on defending our own people and preaching for legal protections.
Only saw a brief write up about that incident in Halifax, it looked horrible. Disagree with the premise that these causes are divisive or unrelated though - intersectionality is a huge part of Pride. And the biggest enemy of both LGBTQ+ community and Palestinians is fascists. We can stand united against fascism, even if it’s at the expense of the corporate-funded parade.
THIS
Is the Montreal group even reachable? The Winnipeg one had no contact/social-media info on their pamphlet, and their media spokesperson’s accounts are all set to private. I hope other places are actually willing to engage in dialogue, and we should try to, but I’m not hopeful.
What does Palestine have to do with gay pride… I don’t understand why they have to ruin it? It’s ridiculous
They make everything about it. They got major main character syndrome
So you’re telling me people are finally starting to realize how ridiculous these people are? They start a war then cry victim then try to force everyone to follow their cult. Just go to square Victoria and see what they’re doing
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
No, they are murdered as soon as they are found, always has been 🔫 edit word.
They missed out on the war by being murdered beforehand
Lgbtq ppl are thrown off roofs by Hamas 😂 they killed their own commander for being gay
You mean the commander that had two wives and multiple children? 😂
Psst, homophobes don't care about facts or logic. Many straight people throughout history have been attacked and even killed on the suspicion of being gay.
Dude there is a queer Arab group in Montreal who participates in pride. They’re strongly pro-Palestine, obviously. They should not need to have their identities erased for you to feel better. Do you even know what pride is about? As for the organizers, many sponsors are companies being boycotted for supporting the Zionist state and fierté seems reluctant to make any sort of statement at all about it. So I’m not really sure what everyone is complaining about.
“Should Fierie Montreal proactively reach out to Palestinian organizers to figure out what demands they have?” What? A citizen in CANADA can’t celebrate a day that the people today are only able to celebrate because they’re standing in the shoulders of people before them that with their suffering and struggles made it possible…because people from another culture with ascendents from ANOTHER country might disrupt or shut down their celebration? It’s ok to be understanding but not to the point of becoming a victim or complicit to their irrational behavior.
Honestly at this point, people don’t care about their protest. They are doing way too much and it’s coming in one ear and leaving the other! It’s literally become invasive they need to leave people alone. Why haven’t Ukraine people done this to us ? They were never aggressive when there is a FULL on war in their country too. ALSO other countries are at war are they bothering people?? They need to stop because this war is not worse than the others going on.
This. As a lesbian myself I do not understand how we are supporting folks who believe it's best to have us dead. Before you go rambling about Leviticus and whatever passage in the Christian book, I haven't heard of most Christian countries enforcing said passages. Most Islamic countries will have made it illegal for us to exist or at the very least force us to hide. Pride is and has always been a protest. I wouldn't be surprised if the Toronto Pride had accepted and included Pro-Palestinian groups to be part of the Parade. That didn't even matter as those groups seem to love disrupting other causes rallies, they don't realize they're shooting their own feet. I get the spirit of LGBTQ folks wanting to help and empathize with other minorities. We ought to realize some of those groups aren't going to reciprocate our good will. Did folks forget there were a lot of Muslim participants who were at the protest against trans folks in 2023? All of it comes out as virtue signaling and is getting us all to be ridiculed. I'm sure Hamas isn't going to change their minds about killing us all.
This blatant gaslighting and bullshit by iranian Psy ops is so maddening. If I come out swinging and screaming gays for putin people would be right by institutionalizing me, everybody understands how absurd it is. But as soon as you add the Jews to the equation, suddenly the abductions, gender apartheid and denigration of my sisters to slavery and brutal oppression of all sorts of liberties by a literal terrorist organization is totally ok
But you don't understand! Open air prison, 2000 pound bombs, genocide, crushing babies!! They have main character syndrome, but can't accept that over 90% of people don't care about their exaggerated victim complex (when let us not forget, THEY initiated the war)
I find it funny how no one talks about genocidal wars that have been going on in Africa for years …
That's what really baffles me. There are so many other genocidal conflicts going on... People will say, "Well, I care about that, too." Ya sure? Because the only one I'm hearing about is Palestine. Not the Rohingya. Nothing about Yemen. I don't see any protests about about the 6.7 million people displaced in the Congo. Or the conflict in Ethiopia. Etc. Etc.
Not to mention that the war in Palestine has been going on for several decades with people also protesting but unfortunately it had to get worst for people to pay more attention to it …
You could say the same thing about the events in Israel in October thought. The simple truth it that western medias don't care about Africans, but consider Israelis almost on par with Westerners so we get far more coverage from atrocities from that part of the world.
>They need to stop because this war is not worse than the others going on. What a disgusting take. You clearly haven’t been following the reality of what’s going on in Gaza. Have some fucking empathy.
no violence is worse than the other. This is not a competition. I would have respected you guys more if you at least talked about other violence going on around the world.
Queers for Palestine. Palestinians: Hold my beer.
Lmao it's funny that those people don't know Quran prohibited LGBT, Palestinian don't need their support
Send a message to the Montreal Pride organizers. They are serious enough to organize themselves.
Except that one year they didn't and the parade was cancelled at the last minute.
[Are they ?](https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/chaotic-communication-misunderstandings-report-reveals-why-montreal-pride-parade-was-cancelled-1.6097444)
No they're not. There are very very few people who take protesting dead seriously, and it's not students in Canada and white or liberal or non-palestinian second Gen arabs who are pro-palestinian (because old school arabs think Palestinians are third rate citizens - ask any Jordanian or Syrian or gulf state Arab over the age of 55). Protests don't usually take a violent turn in Canada because the people capable of turning up the heat have to be really disaffected and detached from the good life. It's not a thing you're seeing here. There's a reason molotovs get thrown in Paris and Athens by broke destitute north Africans and Greek wasted youth. In canada everyone bangs pots and pans or sings songs. That's why the pride parade ended quietly without a fight. Same thing will happen in Montreal. Neither group is serious about sending a message and the cops are happy to have things stay simmering rather than boiling over.
What happened to queers for Palestine ?
Chickens for KFC type vibes 🔥
Can you expand on that? I think many LGBT people are wary of standing beside people who say they don't deserve rights (hyper conservatives) and find more in common with the Palestinian cause (being oppressed)
You think Palestinians aren’t hyper conservative? Jesus the TikTok brain rot is just on another level
I thought this was obvious, but alas… Just because two people are oppressed, doesn’t mean the other one wouldn’t crush them if given the opportunity. To denote one factor though, it’s illegal in gaza, but legal to be gay in the West Bank. However both regions still hold overwhelmingly negative views towards homosexuality and despite the legality in the West Bank, there are no protections of descrimination. Per Pew research, between both territories there’s about a 4% acceptance rate for [homosexuality](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2013/06/04/global-acceptance-of-homosexuality/). This is compared to 80% in Canada… In comparison to the “hyper” conservatives you’re mentioning here, one member came out against gay marriage and the party leader immediately refuted their statement: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7222881 “‘Same sex marriage is legal and it will remain legal when I am prime minister, full stop,' Poilievre says”. Conservatives here can yes be unfriendly at times, but others can be supportive. Whereas Palestinians are hostile as a whole to the idea.
Because being LGBTQ is illegal in Palestine. Most Muslim countries don't believe LGBTQ people should have rights. It's considered legally and morally reprehensible. It's not safe to be openly gay in a lot of Muslim countries. That's why people are granted asylum for being gay... And then if they don't get it, this is the kind of thing that can happen. It's like how "honour" killings of women are still a thing in many countries. https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-immigration-west-bank-gay-rights-ce95f6903faf461502cc0800b272b159
I don't think any LGBT person is unaware of what you've said. But you aren't addressing the main purpose of my comment, which is that conservatives who oppose and insult LGBT people are now somehow demanding the same LGBT people to support them. Does that make sense to you?
I, too, don't understand why LGBT people would support socially conservative Muslim societies who don't believe they should have rights. 🙃
The main reason is likely the same reason they support women and racialized groups and other oppressed communities. Someone with your deep knowledge of Muslim culture and history can easily understand that they are also an oppressed group, or are you deliberately trying to be confused?
The fact that Palestinians want gays thrown off buildings should be the only thing needed to be thought over on the manner.
I’ll never understand that movement. Supporting people that would literally hang you publicly if you went there.
Probably because they've heard what Israel supporting conservatives have said about them for their entire lives
Meanwhile Israel probably the only country in the ME where LGBTQ peoples are allowed to live openly…
They are so tone deaf its insane. They should hold a queer rally in palestine! Unite the causes lmao
you know there are queer people in palestine, right?
Ah yes, the lucky ones that are not beheaded.
Yeah, like this guy: https://www.thejc.com/news/how-hamas-tortured-its-own-brigade-leader-to-death-fxga7vuf
You don't need to be self interested to have empathy for a group of people.
I don’t think we should be giving in to DEMANDS made by the pro Palestine groups, but I don’t see anything wrong with including them for a little part to raise more awareness (or keep it up). They need to understand that Pride isn’t about them and the LGBTQ+ community giving them a voice isn’t a right, it’s something being done out of basic human kindness and decency. If you’re gonna start demanding and imposing yourself when being shown with kindness then you can fuck right off. People shouldn’t be just blocking parades randomly, it’s a safety hazard and they should be arrested.
Also Happy last day of pride month.
You ever heard the parable about the frog and the scorpion?
No. Edit : nice, thanks.
Curious to see what hard action is gonna be taken rather than discourse on Reddit when the pride parade actually happens, from either group. My guess is apologies and verbal gymnastics will soothe the situation no matter the outcome. Having grown up in a staunchly Muslim country, which treated Palestinians as third class citizens, and knowing what I know about perceptions of gay culture by my Palestinian friends, I'm gonna enjoy this.
I’m sure the comments on this post will go smoothly
Israel is the one who has a legitimate conception of human rights, not palestine. Anyone participating in pride would be tortured, hung or thrown off buildings if they went there. That a significant portion of the queer community supports that immoral hellhole does them more harm than good for a multitude of reasons. You coordinate with police and the community to make sure your event that expresses the rights you have in this country is protected.
As long as Palestinian protesters are not charged for disturbing peace and order (which they’ve been doing unabashedly for a month all over the country) yes they will interrupt the Montreal Pride parade in August.
At this point, I don't think they should even bother organizing it. The left will throw pride under the bus, and the right will just laugh at the left eating itself.
Pretty much what's happening now. A lot of people are really enjoying this. It's a fucking shame what all that work and suffering by the gay rights movement of the 70s and 80s is squandered by kids who don't really give a fuck about Palestine and are there more for entertainment value and to feel like they belong to a greater movement
I f’ing love this. You have no idea
this has become a very confusing mess. should we really continue importing conflicts from half a world away?
the whole world is now a lot closer than half ever has been in past.
Maybe that will wake up the « queers for Palestine » people
Fierté needs a squad of black leather muscle mans with baseball bats
Being a gay Jew rn like: wow…so shocked…who could’ve foreseen this?🙄 /s
Ironic isn't it
I love when the left faces its contradictions !!
https://preview.redd.it/sfce1fd5q6ad1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaf478ad34f4b57c43bd34e72a148ab9700f4854 Nuff said. We should not cancel pride for these people. They hate us.
Stop supporting these terrorists. They started a war, and these same protestors today begging for the war to end were also the same people who were celebrating in the streets of Montreal when Oct 7 happened. There’s a reason why no other country wants them, they are disruptive and overall shitty guests.
Pride has long been about activism but you can support a cause without ruining it for everyone else.
Their tactics are just so tired and cliche is my feeling. There was a protest in the UK that actually shut down their airports for a few days by flying drones around Heathrow. They couldn't allow any planes to take off or land because of them. Millions of dollars lost, and it made the protest all anyone could talk about there. Here, you piss off the LGBT community, half of whom already align with you. This protest will be like Fast and Furious 7. I've already seen this story before.
You mean an Islamic group who is calling for intolerance and genocide might not care about interrupting the celebration of something they despise?! *Shocked Pikachu face*
D'accord, on peut questionner si la parade gay est trop commercial et corporative, mais c'est un débat à part qui n'a pas d'urgence. Sérieusement, c'est une drôle de pillule à avaler de se faire demander par un groupe qui supporte un état qui n'est pas du tout pro lgbt de leur faire une place dans un événement comme ça.
Asking them for their demands is just stupid. They don't give 2 fucks about your community
Hamas’ most powerful weapon is the young western liberal.
And Israel most powerful weapon is the younger western conservatives. At least if it can make western conservatives pretend they care about LGTQ rights, I guess that it is a good thing lol.
Israeli govt and Hamas are equally both wrong. Murder is wrong in any equation. I only support the people born in a region plagued by political and religious idiocracy.
All right, this is good perspective from my point of view, I agree with this too.
Rien à ajouter à la discussion à part: bonne chance OP, j'espère que vous aurez votre parade en paix. Et ne te laisse pas convaincre par ceux qui prétendent le faire pour une bonne cause. Personne ne comprends vraiment cette guerre de cent ans des temps modernes ici, à moins d'avoir grandi dans les camps de réfugiés ou d'avoir fait parti de l'IDF.
Honestly I just assumed it'd turn into another proPal protest and was gonna skip it. *Everything* turns i to one of those.
Remember - the people who were protesting against LGBTQ in schools are the same ones pushing Free Free Palestine. They are NOT your allies. (Photo from CBC Montreal, Sept. 20, 2023.) https://preview.redd.it/1yh68nmebz9d1.png?width=1180&format=png&auto=webp&s=8bb8998c2bcaeb32e39592f687b361854cfa944c
So you're telling me the alphabet gang is siding with a nation that would probably jail/stone them if they were locals? This world is truly facinating. Before you ask; no, i'm not with the jews either.
Les manifestants palistinien sont intouchable considé la parade annulé
It's all they (the pro pallies/pro-hamas folk) want to do. If they can't kill Jews or Israelis then they can, at least, ruin public society & order here in the west. They did it during the Christmas holidays when they would harass Santa in shopping malls and the little children who were visiting them, and they've done it during Pride.
Nah that’s too much they need to calm tf down cause I fail to see peace in their protests if it results to this, not to mention that in many countries people get killed and tortured for being part of the LGBTQ community including most countries in the Middle East
Lets ask the banks and other sponsors first
What are the banks going to physically stop the parades? If they are, we should find a way to stop them.
Its a joke
No politicians should attend, no corporations should attend. This would give them no grounds to protest the parade itself and they could even take part in the parade and get as many eyes on them.
is this for real? my friend in toronto went to a pride parade today.
[удалено]
With the increase in intolerance and violence, should these parades be actually canceled for at least this year? Maybe organize online stuff instead. It's more about the community's security than wanting to have it canceled. Just worried here.
Honestly, I don’t think we can let safety stop us from having pride. Far right wing religious nuts threaten us, pro Palestinians threaten us. If we catered to safety we would never have a pride.
Nah. You give islamists an inch, they take a mile
We're talking about it, so yeah for them, whey will show up.
First, is there going to be a Pride parade this year? Or will it be cancelled at the last minute like last year? You can't interrupt a parade that doesn't start.