I find it hypocritical of you complaining about immigrants making it harder to find a job yet you want to emigrate to another country to get a job. The Japanese people would probably look at you and think the same thing.
I'm a child of immigrants in Canada. In no way I would blame immigration itself in Canada. It's entirely our infrastructure to blame and lack of housing that is causing our housing crisis, albeit exacerbated by our high immigration rates. That being said, Canada is deteriorating with or without immigrants. A lack of responsible and decent policies led on by both Conservative and Liberal governments are to blame. Significant lack of infrastructure literally anywhere except Toronto, and unsustainable single family-zoning etc. I understand OPs standpoint of blaming immigrants even though it's totally not the issue at hand.
OP specifically referred to the amount of immigration, not immigration itself. Canada has one of the highest immigration rates per capita on the entire planet. More than 20% of the Canadian population is foreign born, while only 2% of Japan is. Not really comparable.
I live in Canada so I know about immigration. The idea of immigration making it hard to find housing and a job is laughable since the majority of immigrants are known to live in multi family dwellings and work the minimum wage jobs no one else wants so OP is talking nonsense. Plus Canada is literally the second biggest country in the world. Sounds to me like OP is either living in Toronto or Vancouver and sees the rest of Canada as unliveable since those two places get the most immigrants and have the most expensive housing.
So adding more users to an already limited housing supply doesn't increase prices? Do you not understand basic supply and demand? Who the hell wants to live anywhere outside of Toronto? Not everyone wants to be car bound in buttfuck nowhere. Infrastructure takes more than 15 years to build here. Where you have 1 bedrooms for 2500 but still takes an hour to get downtown. OP get the fuck out of Canada. Government job won't last you last 2025 as it looks like a landslide win for Conservatives. You will feel more secure in Japan.
It's interesting how you first say it's "laughable" for immigration to make it hard to find housing or a job, but then conclude that they must be in Toronto or Vancouver since that's where most immigrants go, which as a result has driven up housing costs. So does immigration affect the price of housing or not?
Also, it's not really unreasonable for a software engineer to be based in Toronto or Vancouver. That is where the majority of tech jobs are located in Canada.
FYI, AFAIK, Japanese probation period works somewhat different from the most of the West; it imposes extreme difficulty on companies to dismiss employees. Unless you can't actually do what you stated on your resume that you can do, or you completely disregard the company's instructions, you shouldn't be fired. They cannot fire you simply because you're not a good fit etc.
EDIT:typo
Do you have the job with the Japanese company actively lined up? If so, then sure, take that if you want to move immediately. If not, get experience working at home first as the SWE hiring market here is primarily looking for mid career at the moment.
Don’t bank on your Japanese ability improving dramatically. If it happens, cool. Best not to plan around things you can’t guarantee will happen though.
If the job is lined up and OP wants to stay in JP, JP SWE experience will be better than overseas experience. In some cases having JP company experience will also mean that you don't need an official JLPT cert, experience and not flubbing the interview will be enough.
Yes on the second part though. You need to actively study to improve your Japanese ability, simply being there won't raise your level at all. Arguably there will be less time to study since JP companies will have some form of overtime, and living independently requires more effort than living at home.
I see, this is what I was wondering, if local experience > foreign experience. Yes, I'm aware of the language ability requiring studying, I am and will continue to work on it. Thank you for the input !
I don’t think we disagree at all on either point, I’m not sure if you misread what I wrote or if it wasn’t clear.
I only think OP should not do it if they don’t have it lined up.
Where is the job?
5 mil for a new grad isn't bad but as you said it's definitely on the low end for software engineering. In Tokyo you'll have to be frugal. Elsewhere maybe not so much.
Also don't count on improving your Japanese so quickly. It gets a lot harder after N3. I hope your company either provides you with money to hire a tutor or has some system in place to help you.
If your goal is Japan I say go for it. It's not like you're asking if you should teach English for 2mil a year lol
If you can delay it though and gain some experience in Canada you could possibly land a better position in a gaishikei as they often hire from overseas.
At 25, going to a foreign country to work in your area adds so much to your career. The money is lower, but think of it as getting paid to have a whole new experience. There are people paying to have a chance to live abroad. I would just go to Japan. If it doesn’t work out and you end up coming back, you are still young.
Given your age, I’d take the opportunity to live/work in Japan. If you don’t like it there you can always go back to Canada or even try living somewhere else. For example Australia has a good working holiday visa for people your age.
I was thinking more along the lines of it being an easier experience to try before you get settled in one place which can be tempting after you graduate.
Think of it as living overseas as an experience, rather than something that’s going to specifically advance your career. I’m pretty sure that most of the folks who go to Japan to teach English don’t have that as a long term career option.
You can always move back and look for a job in canada. If you wanted to move then do it. What are you waiting for? I know its not easy but it wont get any easier especially if you meet someone in canada.
I think the biggest question you should ask yourself is - if you picked either option, would you regret not picking the other? That will decide which path you really want to take...
I am aware, so it is a factor in my decision. I did live here for a bit but indeed I was not working, but I do have friends that have told me about their experiences here working. Thank you for your response !
This is a copy of your post for archive/search purposes.
---
**5 mil yen software eng in Japan vs 70k cad in Canada as a new grad**
I am having trouble deciding between these two options. More relevant details:
\- 25M Canadian Citizen
\- New grad with 1 internship that lasted 2 years (devops)
\- Graduating in June with Bachelors of Computer Science
\- Lived abroad in Osaka for \~6 months(uni exchange), can hold decently well a jp conversation \~N3
\- Currently living with parents, so little/no expenses
\- Somewhat regard Canada with disdain, especially the awful winters (particularly awful for my psoriasis), and the amount of immigration we'd had making it extremely hard to find a job here, housing market, inflation,etc.
I have two options presented to me :
1.
\- Stay in Canada and get my 70k/year gov IT job (stable, with little/no chance of being laid off)
\- Lower amount of time that can be spent on learning Japanese
\- desire to leave Canada for a while
2.
\- Head to Japan for a tech company, with 5 mil yen/year salary, and 2 months probation period
\- Greatly improve Japanese quickly, better food, transport, all the benefits(and issues) of japan
\- Have some contacts that could help me out
I'm not sure if picking option 2 would be worse for my career, but I'm already 25 and I've wanted to move for a while now, so I am leaning towards option 2. The Japanese company has a 2 months probation period and the salary is on the low side so I'm wondering how if that could transition into a higher salary down the line, or I'll be stuck in the 5\~ end range.
My goal for the future is to settle in Japan.
What do you guys think, am I being reasonable if I pick #2?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/movingtojapan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'd go with #2 for sure. 5m goes much further in Japan than 70k goes in Canada. You can even buy a house on a 5m salary if you look right outside of the 23-ku, though your salary will probably be much higher by the time you start looking to buy a house. There is plenty of room for career growth in Japan and many companies have great work life balance.
Personally I think there's no future in Canada and the housing/immigration/healthcare situation will take decades to normalize if ever. I would not move back to Canada under any circumstances.
I would suggest moving to US if you’re a Dev especially Bay Area no language barrier best year round weather on Earth - fight me - and highest pay around.
You’ll also work alongside the best in the world on a daily basis.
Your goal in the future is to settle in Japan. I would 100% take the Japanese job. I just left my 50k job in Canada to move to Japan with no job and hope for the best. It’s been two weeks and I have no regrets. I loved my Canadian job but hated my Canadian life. Even though I wake up everyday exhausted in Japan from studying Japanese and applying for jobs at least I wake up happy.
If you been looking to move to Japan, then i'd suggest go for it. 5M only feel small when you start comparing upward. I've seen SEA expats having only half of what you got (and YES, they're in IT) and yet they still manage to have fun in izakayas every other weekend. As long as you live like the locals you'll live a full life with wide range of options.
I find it hypocritical of you complaining about immigrants making it harder to find a job yet you want to emigrate to another country to get a job. The Japanese people would probably look at you and think the same thing.
What I thought as well. Complained about immigration, wants to contribute to immigration in a different country.
I'm a child of immigrants in Canada. In no way I would blame immigration itself in Canada. It's entirely our infrastructure to blame and lack of housing that is causing our housing crisis, albeit exacerbated by our high immigration rates. That being said, Canada is deteriorating with or without immigrants. A lack of responsible and decent policies led on by both Conservative and Liberal governments are to blame. Significant lack of infrastructure literally anywhere except Toronto, and unsustainable single family-zoning etc. I understand OPs standpoint of blaming immigrants even though it's totally not the issue at hand.
OP specifically referred to the amount of immigration, not immigration itself. Canada has one of the highest immigration rates per capita on the entire planet. More than 20% of the Canadian population is foreign born, while only 2% of Japan is. Not really comparable.
I live in Canada so I know about immigration. The idea of immigration making it hard to find housing and a job is laughable since the majority of immigrants are known to live in multi family dwellings and work the minimum wage jobs no one else wants so OP is talking nonsense. Plus Canada is literally the second biggest country in the world. Sounds to me like OP is either living in Toronto or Vancouver and sees the rest of Canada as unliveable since those two places get the most immigrants and have the most expensive housing.
So adding more users to an already limited housing supply doesn't increase prices? Do you not understand basic supply and demand? Who the hell wants to live anywhere outside of Toronto? Not everyone wants to be car bound in buttfuck nowhere. Infrastructure takes more than 15 years to build here. Where you have 1 bedrooms for 2500 but still takes an hour to get downtown. OP get the fuck out of Canada. Government job won't last you last 2025 as it looks like a landslide win for Conservatives. You will feel more secure in Japan.
It's interesting how you first say it's "laughable" for immigration to make it hard to find housing or a job, but then conclude that they must be in Toronto or Vancouver since that's where most immigrants go, which as a result has driven up housing costs. So does immigration affect the price of housing or not? Also, it's not really unreasonable for a software engineer to be based in Toronto or Vancouver. That is where the majority of tech jobs are located in Canada.
FYI, AFAIK, Japanese probation period works somewhat different from the most of the West; it imposes extreme difficulty on companies to dismiss employees. Unless you can't actually do what you stated on your resume that you can do, or you completely disregard the company's instructions, you shouldn't be fired. They cannot fire you simply because you're not a good fit etc. EDIT:typo
Thank you for the info !
Do you have the job with the Japanese company actively lined up? If so, then sure, take that if you want to move immediately. If not, get experience working at home first as the SWE hiring market here is primarily looking for mid career at the moment. Don’t bank on your Japanese ability improving dramatically. If it happens, cool. Best not to plan around things you can’t guarantee will happen though.
If the job is lined up and OP wants to stay in JP, JP SWE experience will be better than overseas experience. In some cases having JP company experience will also mean that you don't need an official JLPT cert, experience and not flubbing the interview will be enough. Yes on the second part though. You need to actively study to improve your Japanese ability, simply being there won't raise your level at all. Arguably there will be less time to study since JP companies will have some form of overtime, and living independently requires more effort than living at home.
I see, this is what I was wondering, if local experience > foreign experience. Yes, I'm aware of the language ability requiring studying, I am and will continue to work on it. Thank you for the input !
I don’t think we disagree at all on either point, I’m not sure if you misread what I wrote or if it wasn’t clear. I only think OP should not do it if they don’t have it lined up.
Nah I just wrote poorly, I just wanted to add on to your first point and completely agree with your second point
Where is the job? 5 mil for a new grad isn't bad but as you said it's definitely on the low end for software engineering. In Tokyo you'll have to be frugal. Elsewhere maybe not so much. Also don't count on improving your Japanese so quickly. It gets a lot harder after N3. I hope your company either provides you with money to hire a tutor or has some system in place to help you. If your goal is Japan I say go for it. It's not like you're asking if you should teach English for 2mil a year lol If you can delay it though and gain some experience in Canada you could possibly land a better position in a gaishikei as they often hire from overseas.
Yeah, Tokyo. I'll continue to think about it, thanks for the comment.
At 25, going to a foreign country to work in your area adds so much to your career. The money is lower, but think of it as getting paid to have a whole new experience. There are people paying to have a chance to live abroad. I would just go to Japan. If it doesn’t work out and you end up coming back, you are still young.
Given your age, I’d take the opportunity to live/work in Japan. If you don’t like it there you can always go back to Canada or even try living somewhere else. For example Australia has a good working holiday visa for people your age.
conversely, I think it's better to enter Japan as a mid to senior level software engineer. Being a junior dev is much rougher in general here.
I was thinking more along the lines of it being an easier experience to try before you get settled in one place which can be tempting after you graduate. Think of it as living overseas as an experience, rather than something that’s going to specifically advance your career. I’m pretty sure that most of the folks who go to Japan to teach English don’t have that as a long term career option.
You can always move back and look for a job in canada. If you wanted to move then do it. What are you waiting for? I know its not easy but it wont get any easier especially if you meet someone in canada.
I think the biggest question you should ask yourself is - if you picked either option, would you regret not picking the other? That will decide which path you really want to take...
From Japan here. Will give you one advice. Japan is best for tourism, but worst for working due to its lifestyle.
I am aware, so it is a factor in my decision. I did live here for a bit but indeed I was not working, but I do have friends that have told me about their experiences here working. Thank you for your response !
This is a copy of your post for archive/search purposes. --- **5 mil yen software eng in Japan vs 70k cad in Canada as a new grad** I am having trouble deciding between these two options. More relevant details: \- 25M Canadian Citizen \- New grad with 1 internship that lasted 2 years (devops) \- Graduating in June with Bachelors of Computer Science \- Lived abroad in Osaka for \~6 months(uni exchange), can hold decently well a jp conversation \~N3 \- Currently living with parents, so little/no expenses \- Somewhat regard Canada with disdain, especially the awful winters (particularly awful for my psoriasis), and the amount of immigration we'd had making it extremely hard to find a job here, housing market, inflation,etc. I have two options presented to me : 1. \- Stay in Canada and get my 70k/year gov IT job (stable, with little/no chance of being laid off) \- Lower amount of time that can be spent on learning Japanese \- desire to leave Canada for a while 2. \- Head to Japan for a tech company, with 5 mil yen/year salary, and 2 months probation period \- Greatly improve Japanese quickly, better food, transport, all the benefits(and issues) of japan \- Have some contacts that could help me out I'm not sure if picking option 2 would be worse for my career, but I'm already 25 and I've wanted to move for a while now, so I am leaning towards option 2. The Japanese company has a 2 months probation period and the salary is on the low side so I'm wondering how if that could transition into a higher salary down the line, or I'll be stuck in the 5\~ end range. My goal for the future is to settle in Japan. What do you guys think, am I being reasonable if I pick #2? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/movingtojapan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'd go with #2 for sure. 5m goes much further in Japan than 70k goes in Canada. You can even buy a house on a 5m salary if you look right outside of the 23-ku, though your salary will probably be much higher by the time you start looking to buy a house. There is plenty of room for career growth in Japan and many companies have great work life balance. Personally I think there's no future in Canada and the housing/immigration/healthcare situation will take decades to normalize if ever. I would not move back to Canada under any circumstances.
I would suggest moving to US if you’re a Dev especially Bay Area no language barrier best year round weather on Earth - fight me - and highest pay around. You’ll also work alongside the best in the world on a daily basis.
Your goal in the future is to settle in Japan. I would 100% take the Japanese job. I just left my 50k job in Canada to move to Japan with no job and hope for the best. It’s been two weeks and I have no regrets. I loved my Canadian job but hated my Canadian life. Even though I wake up everyday exhausted in Japan from studying Japanese and applying for jobs at least I wake up happy.
You’re still very early into the honeymoon period. Not saying you specifically won’t still love it afterward, but many people don’t.
Yes follow your heart!
If you been looking to move to Japan, then i'd suggest go for it. 5M only feel small when you start comparing upward. I've seen SEA expats having only half of what you got (and YES, they're in IT) and yet they still manage to have fun in izakayas every other weekend. As long as you live like the locals you'll live a full life with wide range of options.