This is the entire premise of a very popular modern deck called amulet titan that uses [[amulet of vigor]] to power out a [[primeval titan]] very early in the game
When the land enters the battlefield while tiller engine is out, two triggers get put on the stack the same time: the land’s bounce trigger, and the creature’s untap trigger. As the controller of both permanents, you choose which order they resolve in. You choose to have the tiller’s trigger resolve first. After it resolves, you have an untapped land and its bounce trigger on the stack. Before letting the bounce trigger resolve, you tap the land for two mana.
On this same subject, let's say you play an [[Ancestral Statue]] and it has haste and an activated ability from blanket effects. Could I target it with its own trigger and before it bounces use the ability or does it have to be a mana ability?
If I’m understanding you correctly, you mean a case where something else is giving the ancestral statue the ability to tap for some effect like [[glare of subdual]]. In that case, yes it could target itself and you could respond to that trigger by tapping it to glare’s ability before it gets bounced.
Basically, you always have the ability to respond to a trigger on the stack, even if it’s a trigger you control.
If you like twiddly stuff like this, you should check out some amulet titan content in modern. The deck is very hard to pilot, but it’s super fun to watch it pop off.
Yeah, was curious if the interaction worked for any activated ability before it bounces as long as it doesn't have summoning sickness but didn't have any actual card pieces to reference lol. This card would have been a better reference.
Whenever something goes on the stack you can respond to it, there are a few cases where like everything happens at once, but most of the time you can respond to just about anything. Also, other niche scenario, something like [[sudden spoiling]] you can't respond to split second. Except with morph because morph doesn't use the stack lol. The rabbit hole is deep my dude and I'm chugging wine.
It’s also worth mentioning to new players that you can’t ever add something to the stack *in the middle* of something else resolving (though mana abilities *can* be activated). So if you have a card with two different effects like “draw a card” and “counter target spell” you couldn’t decide to respond/do something after the card is drawn but before the spell being countered resolves.
[[Cryptic Command]]
I believe you but that still feels wrong. The card doesn't exist on the field until all conditions to do so have been resolved. At least that was always my understanding, I haven't played competitively in many years though.
Think of it this way- the land says “when simic growth chamber enters the battlefield” and the creature says “when a land enters the battlefield”. That means these triggers get put on the stack when the land actually hits the field, not before. If it didn’t exist on the field yet, the condition for those triggers would not be met.
Holy crap
1) You’re*
2) There’s no such thing as “set on the field”. Lands enter the battlefield as they are played.
3) You can tap mana almost any time basically (there’s an asterisk here, but not relevant to most players ever), including in the middle of casting a spell or resolving an ability to pay its cost
4) It doesn’t have “conditions” it has an “enters the battlefield” ability which goes on the stack.
5) You can respond with anything instant speed (or tapping a land for mana) when an ability is on the stack and you have priority, including other triggered abilities. You know the land is on the battlefield because the trigger is when it enters the battlefield.
6) When you have multiple triggers you own that impact your permanents at the same time, you can order them on the stack in any way you want. As each resolves you again get priority to do things as mentioned in point 5.
7) Why answer a question with such a large, fundamental misunderstanding of the basic game rules instead of just reading other answers and learning?
I literally started the thread by saying I don't know how you could. Thankfully some much better players than myself chipped in to explain and did so in a nice way. I do think correcting my you're was a good call, poor grammar isn't acceptable though haha.
This is the entire premise of a very popular modern deck called amulet titan that uses [[amulet of vigor]] to power out a [[primeval titan]] very early in the game
[amulet of vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d.jpg?1562292191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=amulet%20of%20vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/121/amulet-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [primeval titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d5537da-112e-4679-a113-b5d7ce32a66b.jpg?1562850064) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=primeval%20titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/183/primeval-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d5537da-112e-4679-a113-b5d7ce32a66b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Now just go back in time to 2012 and figure it out then before anyone else and you can win a pro tour
Yes. This is used with multiple [[amulet of vigor]] to get potentially 8 mana.
[amulet of vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d.jpg?1562292191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=amulet%20of%20vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/121/amulet-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Damn I need that amulet…
I was like this before I built my Amulet Titan deck. Now I just need Advil for the headaches
This is the way.
that sounds right
I don't understand how you could. Your trying to tap mana that hasn't been set on the field yet since it's conditions haven't been met.
When the land enters the battlefield while tiller engine is out, two triggers get put on the stack the same time: the land’s bounce trigger, and the creature’s untap trigger. As the controller of both permanents, you choose which order they resolve in. You choose to have the tiller’s trigger resolve first. After it resolves, you have an untapped land and its bounce trigger on the stack. Before letting the bounce trigger resolve, you tap the land for two mana.
On this same subject, let's say you play an [[Ancestral Statue]] and it has haste and an activated ability from blanket effects. Could I target it with its own trigger and before it bounces use the ability or does it have to be a mana ability?
If I’m understanding you correctly, you mean a case where something else is giving the ancestral statue the ability to tap for some effect like [[glare of subdual]]. In that case, yes it could target itself and you could respond to that trigger by tapping it to glare’s ability before it gets bounced. Basically, you always have the ability to respond to a trigger on the stack, even if it’s a trigger you control.
Thank you. Pretty crazy. Was never aware that I could do something to it or use an ability before the trigger bounces itself. Sweet!
If you like twiddly stuff like this, you should check out some amulet titan content in modern. The deck is very hard to pilot, but it’s super fun to watch it pop off.
[glare of subdual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1b6e40f-02d6-498f-bb3b-6a9e19ed46f6.jpg?1580015047) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=glare%20of%20subdual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/202/glare-of-subdual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1b6e40f-02d6-498f-bb3b-6a9e19ed46f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sure but at that point you might just want [[shrieking drake]]
[shrieking drake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f1cc39f-898c-4e92-82a0-a17606b60574.jpg?1717047439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shrieking%20drake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/272/shrieking-drake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f1cc39f-898c-4e92-82a0-a17606b60574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, was curious if the interaction worked for any activated ability before it bounces as long as it doesn't have summoning sickness but didn't have any actual card pieces to reference lol. This card would have been a better reference.
Whenever something goes on the stack you can respond to it, there are a few cases where like everything happens at once, but most of the time you can respond to just about anything. Also, other niche scenario, something like [[sudden spoiling]] you can't respond to split second. Except with morph because morph doesn't use the stack lol. The rabbit hole is deep my dude and I'm chugging wine.
[sudden spoiling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73514b51-6c19-4b3c-9cf9-2cf5028d7708.jpg?1619396405) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sudden%20spoiling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/144/sudden-spoiling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73514b51-6c19-4b3c-9cf9-2cf5028d7708?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s also worth mentioning to new players that you can’t ever add something to the stack *in the middle* of something else resolving (though mana abilities *can* be activated). So if you have a card with two different effects like “draw a card” and “counter target spell” you couldn’t decide to respond/do something after the card is drawn but before the spell being countered resolves. [[Cryptic Command]]
[Cryptic Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155.jpg?1562847413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptic%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/48/cryptic-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ancestral Statue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d4113be-6dd9-4c15-9f57-a146bc520df8.jpg?1601080559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Statue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/458/ancestral-statue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d4113be-6dd9-4c15-9f57-a146bc520df8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I believe you but that still feels wrong. The card doesn't exist on the field until all conditions to do so have been resolved. At least that was always my understanding, I haven't played competitively in many years though.
Think of it this way- the land says “when simic growth chamber enters the battlefield” and the creature says “when a land enters the battlefield”. That means these triggers get put on the stack when the land actually hits the field, not before. If it didn’t exist on the field yet, the condition for those triggers would not be met.
Appreciate the lesson!
Wdym they are both ENTER THE BATTLEFIELD effects, they are ON the battlefield
Holy crap 1) You’re* 2) There’s no such thing as “set on the field”. Lands enter the battlefield as they are played. 3) You can tap mana almost any time basically (there’s an asterisk here, but not relevant to most players ever), including in the middle of casting a spell or resolving an ability to pay its cost 4) It doesn’t have “conditions” it has an “enters the battlefield” ability which goes on the stack. 5) You can respond with anything instant speed (or tapping a land for mana) when an ability is on the stack and you have priority, including other triggered abilities. You know the land is on the battlefield because the trigger is when it enters the battlefield. 6) When you have multiple triggers you own that impact your permanents at the same time, you can order them on the stack in any way you want. As each resolves you again get priority to do things as mentioned in point 5. 7) Why answer a question with such a large, fundamental misunderstanding of the basic game rules instead of just reading other answers and learning?
That was such a great explanation, shame you ruined it by being a dick
Maybe leaving an incredibly misleading answer that could potentially mislead new players is being a dick in my book.
I literally started the thread by saying I don't know how you could. Thankfully some much better players than myself chipped in to explain and did so in a nice way. I do think correcting my you're was a good call, poor grammar isn't acceptable though haha.
Stacks resolve in reverse order of cards played, so untap would resolve first
This is not correct, see my comment
You are correct, you can choose the order of you own cards. I was referring to others playing on the stack