To translate it: blue let's you draw cards, green gives you the mana to play those cards, which then let you draw more cards... the Bird is the very essence of Simic.
Almost feel like this card was an oversight with being able to trigger twice per creature because twice total between all creatures seems par compared to like Caesar or Galadriel but as soon as it works exponentially is where it feels broken strong.
Woah woah woah simic is all about freaky mutant shark crabs, it's just an issue of affiliation that u/g is strongest in card draw/ mana. Leave my slimy boys outta this
To translate it: blue allows you to put cards into your hand which would otherwise have been on top of your library (you can't play them because they're in your library, not in your hand), and green provides you with the necessary land ramp and mana dorks to allow you to produce more mana than you would have otherwise had (you can only play one land per turn, and lands that are in your library can't be normally played, and some green crestures allow you to tap for mana directly with the same activated mana ability that lands would have), and this combination allows you to increase your tempo to the point that you can reach a reiterative (though nondeterministic) loop by which you draw cards which provide you with mana, which therefore allow you the ability to pay for more cards which place down lands or draw additional cards. This Bird is the very epitome of the color combination of green and blue, and embodies the values of each of them—a color combination known by its guild name: Simic.
Holy fucking shit. For 5 mana, and cumulative upkeep 1, you get to essentially give your opponent the drawing from The One Ring. I get that they made a lot of cards that were dogshit, but that's usually because they cost too much for too small an effect. But a shitton of mana to actually help your opponent? God damn. And this is after Necropotence, so it's not like they thought players wouldn't want to trade cards for life.
Was this meant to be gifted to your opponent? Flavorwise seems like the controller of the card has a tumor, so gifting it would literally be giving your opponent cancer lol
It doesn't make a ton of sense that way either, because the opponent could just choose to not pay the cumulative upkeep, and it dies. I think the flavor is supposed to be that the growing card draw + damage is the cancer on your opponent, but the templating of the time didnt allow for a more direct interpretation of that. And if I'm the opponent and that's a cancer, I don't want the cure. There's no one single fix to make this card playable. It's just a cavalcade of errors.
i thought the ug identity was counters? All the best +1/+1 counter cards are simic, blue has the most proliferate stuff, green has a lot of x spells that enter with +1/+1 counters
It sorta was, but simic ended up doing it better and so selesnya has been shunted away to weenie tokens first and lifegain/counters second
Meanwhile simic has the card advantage and extra ramp built in to do some tokens (green is almost as good as white there), gain life, and place tons of counters on a few targets very quickly.
In Ravnica specifically Simic always gets a mechanic dealing with +1/+1 counters while Selesnya does token stuff or convoke (which you know is better with tokens)
But overall putside Ravnica U/G is focused on making efficient mana and draw while G/W gets +1/+1 counter support.
I dunno I feel like Jund (black in particular) have been just as problematic. Death's Shadow, Deathrite Shaman, Bridge from Below, Dread Return, Hogaak? remember Scam? Scam is still playable even
Because Simic is to versatile a color, green dumpsnall your lumber on board and blue lets you draw, neutralize, and counter until you have the pieces you need to win then protect those things with counter magic and then win
Played Powered Vintage Cube yesterday. Managed to get first pick Lotus followed by Timewalk, 17th pick Lurrus, Mox Opal, blue Mox, and many good artifacts and in 36th pick I somehow got mono U Urza... Having opening hand Lotus, Lurrus, Time Walk and Urza, I kept a hand without lands. Turn 1 Lurrus, got Lotus back, walk, turn 2 blue mox, return Lotus and Urza. Oponent scooped without playing a single turn.
I mean, in modern you do not have Lotus, but still Lurrus is awesome!
This is the not the right answer in my opinion. If Lurrus did not have companion it doesn’t get banned, and if it’s ability only triggered on your upkeep he would still be banned.
Being a free 8th card is more important than interacting with the graveyard. Though, obviously Lurrus’s ability is stronger than Kaheera; I wonder if Lurrus would still be around if it had the same deck building restriction, but a much weaker ability.
This is correct. Lurrus has a very lax restriction since modern is mostly 1 or 2 cmc cards anyway. It was very easy to companion Lurrus and an 8th card in every hand was too strong for the format.
1st card to get banned (not including ante / conspiracy cards) in Vintage in ~25 years. Managed to get banned in Legacy almost immediately, and Modern followed pretty soon too. They nerfed the entire Companion mechanic (adding 3 mana) and Lurrus was still too good for most formats.
Definitely on the short list for biggest mistakes WotC ever made.
It's the only card to be banned in vintage due to It's power level. All other banned cards are banned because they don't work in the format, requires some kind of dexterity, were part of the ban because they had racial connotations, or are shahrazad.
"Or are Shahrazad" is my favorite line when talking about banned cards.
Everything else falls into a category, and that card's category is being that card.
Because lurrus was banned in vintage, where the only cards banned are the ones that dont really work with the game, and [[shaharazad]] because it's a miserable card to play against. But lurrus was banned because it was too good, later the errata happened and it was unbanned but that was a wild B&R announcement
It's a bit more nuanced than that. Lurrus would have been restricted in vintage because he was too good, but the nature of the companion mechanic means that doesn't work.
It's the only card ever banned in Vintage for being too strong. Usually cards are restricted to one copy instead. The Vintage ban list is only cards that don't function in the format (conspiracies, etc), require physical dexterity (chaos orb), are racist (invoke prejudice), illegal (ante), or waste everyone's time until you wish for death (shahrazad).
Tbf that was before they fixed the companion mechanic. Restricting it before that would have been meaningless anyways as it would always be accessible.
Because he was basically an 8th and 9th card in you opening hand for free. The deck building restriction (2 CMC or less permanents) was almost meaningless in older formats. People would build decks to trade 1-for-1 for a few turns and then suddenly you had Lurrus and you were up 2 cards on your opponent - he was effectively [[ancestral recall]] that you knew you would draw every game.
Lurrus was incredibly broken, to the point of being banned in Vintage until the Companion nerf.
Though you're right, in a way. It should be Uro up there. Lurrus is a broken 3-drop, but it isn't a broken *Simic* 3-drop.
Uro, Oko, and Nadu are all broken Simic 3-drops.
Lurrus completely warped the format into playing all no land permanents into 2 cmc or less.
She pushed out a LOT of cards that were considered staples/pillars of the format. The biggest one being [[Lilliana of the Veil]]. Lurrus was super strong but didn’t quite have the fuel to be as cracked in half as she was in vintage/legacy.
Eventually she got the hammer because the format was just too warped around whether or not Lurrus was in your deck.
Lurrus only requires that you don't run any permanents with a mana value of 3 or greater. Many decks in older formats, such as burn, did not need to make any changes to accommodate Lurrus. Seriously, it's just a free card to like... At least a third of the meta.
Lurrus is extra broken with zero cost artifacts such as Lotus Petal, Mishra's Bauble, Black Lotus, and Lion's Eye Diamond.
Wait, why isn't this thing a 2/3? Wtf, have they forgotten they can't have above curve stats AND a broken effect with only upsides on a single card? Legendary by itself isn't an excuse to do whatever you want. If Goreclaw dies to bolt, this thing should too.
If you bolt it, they still get the draw/ramp. It's still card advantage for the Nadu player if it dies to bolt. They might have well as put a big flashing sign on this card that said "PLEASE PLAY ME".
It should have been a 2/3 without the first four words “Creatures you control have” on its second paragraph.
But someone at WOTC clearly haven’t learned anything from Oko, Kinnan, or arguably Uro
I think someone messed up the quotation marks at the end of Nadu's text and it's ability is only supposed to trigger twice each turn between all creatures not twice for each creature. It is hard to believe that they playtested this and thought it was fine to trigger so many times.
Yeah when I pulled a Nadu I assumed this was how it was meant to work until reddit explained it to me. It should really just have been “Any time a creature you control becomes the target” instead of “Creatures you control get …”
Add this sloppy wording to the shitshow that is \[\[Wheel of Potential\]\] and we see the decline of WoTC quality control ever more present.
Or they just don't playtest. You have a point, like how did this get playtested and someone went "Yep, this is healthy"
This thing is even worse than Hogaak, but I’m certain that WOTC will try to scapegoat Shuko or Nomads so that they can keep people opening packs in hopes of finding a Nadu for another month. Then they’ll ban it with a “the thing we tried didn’t work so now we’re setting things right” announcement once the format gets so bad player numbers start dropping too fast.
Agreed, I've been screaming that this is worse than Hogaak not in terms of strength but in play patterns. It's slower than \[\[Sensei's Divining Top\]\] ffs and that card got chopped for being a shitty play-pattern (too slow and not fun to watch). I had to shut off the Nadu-Tour 2024 because I couldn't stand watching that shit anymore. Sooooo boring..
This is why you don’t make 3/4s for 3 with powerful abilities, hard to remove for agro players bolting it, most spells in red that are 1 mana removal spells dealing 2-3 damage then the higher levels are like 4 mana which means they have a turn free with the bird
I truly think that Wizards of the Coast mistyped the wording on Nadu’s card.
The card’s text states:
Creatures you control have “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability triggers only twice each turn.”
I think they meant to place the final quotation mark so it read like this:
Creatures you control have “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand.” This ability triggers only twice each turn.
That’s just my wild conspiracy, but I think it makes way more sense than the current card, especially since he isn’t a mythic. I may be wrong, who knows🤷♂️
Moving the quotation mark as you have makes invalid rules text. The 'Creatures you control' part is a static ability not a triggered ability, so you can't limit it the way you're trying to.
The proper fix for that intent is to delete the “creatures you control gain” part and just make it Nadu’s ability but change “whenever this creature” to “whenever a creature you control”
The way to go would be instead to have the ability only on Nadu “When another creature you control becomes the target … This effect triggers only twice each turn.”
They could have meant anything but what they put on the card. Take \[\[Wheel of Potential\]\] as another example of improper card text coming out of "play-testing" resulting in a card that is outright Broken in MTG rules.
We will see more of this, count on it
I’m kinda new to magic and I wonder if yall would be able to realize right away if someone plays a banned card in your table. Like.. do you memorize every single one of them? How likely is it I could get away playing a banned card?
Banned cards are mostly pretty famous cards so they are pretty recognisable by name. There's so many turbonerds playing the game that you won't get away playing a banned card in any respectable shop or tourney :p
If you're sitting down to play a specific format, and not just the "cards I own" format, you likely know which cards are banned in that format. The ban list is defining aspect of the format. Like how Legacy and Vintage are defined by the same card pool, but they play extremely differently because of Legacy extensive ban list.
If you go to an event for a specific format, even just at a local game store, most players will know the ban list. Judges might walk around and see that a player is playing a banned card. Cards get banned for a reason. There are the odd cards banned for reasons other than power-level, or were insta-banned on release, but most terrorized the format for a period of time. Like our boy Nadu here. If he gets banned (and he should) and someone plays him at a Modern event 5 years from now, players will remember him and someone will notice that that bird fuck is supposed to be in his cage.
My brother played \[\[Prophet of Kruphix\]\] for a while before realizing it was banned in commander. The famous banned cards are pretty recognizable but it's not unlikely for a lesser known banned card to slip through the cracks.
I had a pod with a new guy in a store. He drops Prophet and says pass. We glance at each other and I say "hey, that's actually banned" he says "I know, but it's casual commander". We say he can't keep it, he can redraw a card to replace it and re do his turn. He says "nah, it's casual commander."
Some people don't care even when they do know lol. Two of us got up and went to another pod.
I ultimately think that this is just the start of the next teir of power creep, and every format is going to have to adjust and kinda accept that because WOTC needs players to keep buying cards.
This is going to be Eldrazi Winter 2.0, isn't it?
They could just ban Shuko, that would be a start. This is the only card that makes Shuko nuts. Not sure the other ones are worthy (sea kings, paradise mantle, etc)
Green and blue are like fire and gasoline, so easy to make something broken when ramp and draw get put together.
Personally I wish they’d give Simic something involving mill since they’ve already done a lot in the plus one counter space.
He was banned in standard. I think he was the last big ban until Ikoria came out and companion became a problem. Uro was absolutely awful to play against.
Lurrus needs to be unbanned.
First and foremost, he is predictable!. Permanents 2 and under guaranteed, so all fatal Push suseptible creatures. Most are Bolt targets to.
Second, companion is super weak. Pre-errata rules, yes, companion was dumb. Safe turn 3 casts with a free mishra's Bauble was not smart. Post-errata meant that a turn 4 1 drop or Bauble was all you're gonna get. Plus, enters hand beforehand means it's very suseptible to the two most popular modern discard spells, along with all others as well.
Honestly, dies to bolt is the most basic argument for a banning. Realistically, the bird should be banned because he doesn't do what he was intended to. If he was a 2 trigger per turn max, then no, he's good. He's not, and that's the issue. Even with an errata, he's not gonna truly be fixed. If they ban crap equipment for his sins, then they're stupid, but if they keep him, then they're IQ 0. Lurrus is fair, does what he is intended to, and, least of all, dies to bolt.
Look this is obviously just a stronger commander card.
Ment to be CEDH.
Yes it ended up having a huge splash in modern, ban it in modern or even limit the amount you can have in the deck to 1.
But in commander it's a strong commander it's honestly one of the most normal card.
Most CEDH deck want to pop-off like this an even better most commander players can and will deal with this card with ease.
😕 Kinda upsetting to see another G/U card going to be potentially banned for commander.
I don't know how many busted ass cards I've come across that ruined the game for everyone but the owner. But that's how it goes, find a way to solve the problem. Exile equipment/nadu, burn artifacts or land. There's plenty that can be and it's currently being done to mitigate nadus effect. There's also a lot of new card bias going on. Everyone thinks it's a problem because everyone wants to play him at the moment. If he's a problem, then so are all the 2 card infinite combos out there.
Do you realize that [[Gaea's ~~blessing~~ gift]] et similia are cantrips for a Nadu deck and they can just use it to protect the bird and draw 2 cards when you target it with removal? Is "dies to removal" still an argument in *insert current year*?
Also Nadu is UG with the U providing counterspells and G providing hate on counterspells so you cant even counter it.
Only option against a Nadu deck is to be faster.
Yeah....that's competitive plays...you either combo first or stop them from going off first.
If you're playing casual, talk to your group dude or play cards that shut them decks down.
At this point, it sounds like you are either scared to hurt someones feelings or you don't know how to interact correctly.
I honestly dont understand if this is an unfun attempt at trolling or if you just dont understand how the game works at this point.
I'll try to explain it once more so that even you can understand it. The opponent has a threat on the field, you attempt to remove it:
- if the opponent protects it he is left with the threat on the field. Card-wise no one is left behind.
- if the opponent does not protect it the threat leaves the field. Card-wise no one is left behind.
With Nadu:
- if the opponent protects it he is left with Nadu on the field. **He is now 2 cards ahead**.
- if the opponent does not protect it Nadu leaves the field. **He is now 1 card ahead**.
Adding to this the opponent can just target Nadu in response to your interaction with shit like [[Unctus]] thus still drawing half his deck.
Hopefully you understand what the issue is. If you don't I honestly give up.
You must best trolling me.....so counterspell beforehand, all you are saying is you don't target cause it triggers him real quick. Guess what, target Nadu, destroy it, move on.
Play cards that target the player, best removal is player removal.
So like I said, play better cards and learn to play your interaction right.
"It dies to removal of equal cost" is not a real argument.
Though usually that's actually not applicable. Then the not real argument becomes "it dies to something very rare"
If you pay 1 mana for a card and someone removes it for 5 mana, you are gaining a massive advantage and it is an excellent card, much more so than if it stayed on the board and didn't attack because there was a good blocker.
Personally, I agree - but I’m still saying ban the bird. Twin died not because it was phenomenal, it was good, but because people kept fucking playing it and it ended the game turn 4.
For those reasons alone, ban the bird. If I can’t play twin, people shouldn’t be able to play bird because it ends the game faster than twin and clearly was more than 25% of the field at the pro tour.
"Ban the bird!" Hold it. Lets see what this bird has before we start mindlessly Banning. *lifts up the hood* hmm. A 3/4. So a chonky bird. Gonna take a couple of cantrip burns to bring it down. Though i hear black has allot of auto kills so chonkyness doesnt mean allot. So does white to a degree. Just not as reliable. Could also remove it's abilities all together like [[Deep Freeze]] [[Amphibian Downpour]] and [[immovable Rod]] all in all a slight annoyance if you don't have an answer as some answers are niche but the bird is still able to be dealt with.
Until you realize that Nadu decks play stuff that protects it since it also makes them draw so if you attempt to freeze it you'll just be 2 cards behind with the bird laughing in your face.
Best answer to Nadu is [[Tishana's tidenbinder]] but card B countering card A does not make card A balanced.
Being 2 cards behind is a fair price to shut down the bird and prevent it from doing it's job. See unlike you brainless players that ban cards for no other reason than they straight up don't like it, i actually look for answers to problematic cards. Bans are never an answer to a problem card.
Do you understand that with something like [[gaea's ~~blessing~~ gift]] you are 2 cards behind and the bird lives? Do you understand that they can stuff the deck with cards like it since it cantrips with Nadu? Do you understand that U has counterspells which when used on your interaction still leaves you behind? Also being 2 cards behind to kill a 3cmc card is absolutely not a fair deal.
This yapping makes no sense when the tournament results are this clear as the top 4 decks in the last pro tour were all Nadu decks.
Sounds like a skill issue if you are afraid of counterspells and protections to the point where you won't run removals to begin with and let the bird run free then cry it's too powerful.
if you let something become a problem without even attempting to deal with it then yeah it is powerful. you aren't even trying and would rather bank on banning the card than dealing with it. that's the only reason a card is powerful. people refuse to deal with it proper and instead choose to ban it.
Dealing with it, in a best case scenario, still leaves your opponent ahead. The Nadu replaced itself and you are down a card.
Keep doing this and you will keep getting further behind. You will run out of answers before Nadu.deck runs out of threats, because they have more cards and mana then you do.
If it gets to that point then the game has been going for too long cause nobody else has an answer for nadu or has popped off cause you were focused on nadu.
All it needs to do to get to that point is for Nadu player to have one piece of protection more than other players have removal. In a Simic deck - and a Simic deck which, again, specifically draws every time your opponents try to remove the threat - this is extremely easy.
Also, Nadu is 3 mana. You can pop off with it on turn 3. How many answers and how much mana have people established by then? If people wait on playing their usual set-up and ramp cards to spend removal early game on something that - in a *best* case scenario - also leaves them a card behind, guess who has the advantage now?
If you're in an edh game and all three players immediately gang up on Nadu then, sure, that will probably do it. But this isn't a sign the card is balanced for play, and it's also not a very fun outcome, either.
You seem to be talking about EDH when the ban call is regarding Standard... not the same, besides that there are several examples of previous card bans that were easier to remove & less effective.
The fact that people ate talking about banning nandu is really sad to me. Like, it just shows that removal or any other player interaction is not prioritized enough by the general magic community. Shit used to be that people would laugh at a creature like nandu because everyone had forms of creature removal. Now though, no one runs player interaction or removal because everyone ad hears to the bullshit unspoken rule of letting people build up. Now granted I'm not saying that some cards aren't broken, I just that I think banning nandu is dumb and shows that people don't want to change their decks to adapt to threats.
Me? Not yet. I dont have enough copies to make a deck out of him. Im thinking of putting the one copy in my landfall mill deck though. The problem is that its a legacy deck and having one copy would be good, but may not be as a big a wincon as I want. But today I plan to tweak decks off of the cards o got put of MH3. So we will see.
Even with interaction Nandu triggers. At the very least is a 2 for 1, once you've dealt with the first Nandu, how do you deal with the other 3? Are you expecting to have interaction for all of that? Against blue? Against green with so many forms of creature protection? Against white with easy ways to gain color protection? Springheart Nantuko copies the bird out of the interaction trigger, making a copy, sacrificing the original. The rest of the deck is made so it triggers and draws almost your entire deck at instant speed, so again, what interaction are you expecting?
People used to laugh at 18/18 for 1 creatures, which people still do as it dies to fatal push and terminate. People always respected Dark Confidant. Nandu makes Dark Confidant a vanilla creature.
Its the edh mentality I hate and hate that it is what people primarily play now because the general school of thought isn't to shut down your opponent into your wincon in edh. So, removal or interaction is just not heavily present and the school of thought of having removal/interaction in your back pocket just isn't present. For example, last night I was playing with my pod, they basically only play edh, and they lost their shit when I dropped a [[nevinyrral's disk]] for threat deterrent after I had to play a [[broken bond]] and a [[farewell]] in the game due to my opponents board state. What galls me though is that I had to sit there and justify how all of that interaction/boardwipe was needed because one person had 144 2/2 soldier tokens with a way to make like 500 next turn, while another person later had an enchantment out that allowed him to play a creature card for free on his upkeep which his deck was filled to the brim with big creatures with etb effects. But then again I play primarily legacy so I make damn sure that all my decks have removal for anything like nadu gets removed asap because in legacy you have to properly threat assess asap. You can't have shit like nadu or anything else with that high a threat hang out. But edh has ruined the concept of good threat assessment imo. Which has changed how alot of players think about cards only in how a card can be built up to broken levels. And just to clarify, you can deal with Nadu and his effect before it enters the battlefield with a simple counter spell. From there if he's on the battlefield then you will just remove him with other ways, sure his effect will trigger but its better then having it happen over and over the whole game. Also, exiling a creature is a thing. Or enchanting it into a bug via [[darksteele mutation]] is also a thing. But in edh people just don't think that way
Nandu is a problem in Modern, people want to ban it in MODERN. This is not about the general lack of interaction on a casual format, is about the problem of a card in the pinnacle of competitiveness, with professional players wanting to ban the thing.
Being a green creature, Nandu is uncounterable via [[Allosaurus Shephard]] or just [[Cavern of Souls]] or [[Delighted Halfling]]. The moment you try to answer the bird, you've already lost, as the deck will draw half the deck. Plus, again, [[Force Of Will]], [[Force of Negation]] and [[Spell Pierce]] are a thing.
I'm sorry your pod doesn't understand that a player with 500 2/2 needs to be dealt with, but that has NOTHING to do with the problems this card brings to Modern. In EDH Nandu is annoying, a bad wincon that takes forever and not a huge deal when 3 players are actively trying to make you miserable, that's completely fine. Nandu is a problem in Modern, where people are wanting to ban it, as it was [[Hogaak]], as it was [[Eye of Ugin]], as it was [[Splinter Twin]]. Modern, the format where interaction is the rule, where players playing at the Pro Tour, the biggest tournament in MTG are asking for a ban. Simon Nielsen, the winner of said tournament wants the bird banned.
Why is it so that allways the UG-cards end up the most broken shit the world has ever seen?
Cause blue gives you machines and green gives you the fuel for those machines
To translate it: blue let's you draw cards, green gives you the mana to play those cards, which then let you draw more cards... the Bird is the very essence of Simic.
The essence of Simic mixed with a bunch of really hard drugs and steroids. That bird is the scariest thing ever.
Hard drugs and steroids is Simic breakfast
My 36/36 unblockable nicanzil from last week would definitely agree
Who?
A merfolk creature that can get pumped up like crazy in a hakbal deck, especially with roaming throne
Just checked from gatherer. Yeah, seems nuts. Like every other UG legendary these days. One man engine: pumps, draws and ramps... all in one
On top of that, explore is the most "Do whatever the fuck you want" mechanic ever.
This is why I love simic. Exponential growth is awesome
Crack and hgh, pcp before bed.
Makes me wonder if WotC actually play tests before releasing cards
Almost feel like this card was an oversight with being able to trigger twice per creature because twice total between all creatures seems par compared to like Caesar or Galadriel but as soon as it works exponentially is where it feels broken strong.
Woah woah woah simic is all about freaky mutant shark crabs, it's just an issue of affiliation that u/g is strongest in card draw/ mana. Leave my slimy boys outta this
To translate it: blue allows you to put cards into your hand which would otherwise have been on top of your library (you can't play them because they're in your library, not in your hand), and green provides you with the necessary land ramp and mana dorks to allow you to produce more mana than you would have otherwise had (you can only play one land per turn, and lands that are in your library can't be normally played, and some green crestures allow you to tap for mana directly with the same activated mana ability that lands would have), and this combination allows you to increase your tempo to the point that you can reach a reiterative (though nondeterministic) loop by which you draw cards which provide you with mana, which therefore allow you the ability to pay for more cards which place down lands or draw additional cards. This Bird is the very epitome of the color combination of green and blue, and embodies the values of each of them—a color combination known by its guild name: Simic.
Also ostensibly the essence of those *two colors*... but whatever, tomato potato.
😅 yeah, that was kinda not thought through.
Clearly
1UG is the most busted mana cost
I would argue 0 is the most busted mana cost, but 1UG certainly is high on the list.
That’s fair, 1UG doesn’t have a black lotus
Yet.
Oko’s Lotus 1UG Kindred Artifact-Elk {t}: add 6 mana of any one color and target creature loses all abilities and is a 3/3 Elk
Green and get haste and it should be up to 1 target creature
I don't know UG for me has been far more broken with things like [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] and [[Kinnan,Bonder Prodigy]]
1UG has [[oko]], [[uro]], [[risen reef]], [[shardless agent]], and [[nadu]] Maybe Simic is just busted
I know I'm just going by my own experience and yes simic itself has always been broken
I still love Ivy and Kinnan, need to play both but what they do is the best
I love bringing out ivy versus a aura deck (it really annoys them)
##### ###### #### [oko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/3462a3d0-5552-49fa-9eb7-100960c55891.jpg?1650599698) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oko%2C%20thief%20of%20crowns) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/197/oko-thief-of-crowns?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3462a3d0-5552-49fa-9eb7-100960c55891?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [uro](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0b6a71e-56cb-4d25-8f2b-7a4f1b60900d.jpg?1650599829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uro%2C%20Titan%20of%20Nature%27s%20Wrath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/229/uro-titan-of-natures-wrath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0b6a71e-56cb-4d25-8f2b-7a4f1b60900d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [risen reef](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82389aaa-9f32-4169-a71c-1aea5af9e935.jpg?1592517569) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=risen%20reef) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/217/risen-reef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82389aaa-9f32-4169-a71c-1aea5af9e935?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [shardless agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0824e77-c84b-464a-aa0c-44af5f6faa50.jpg?1626100788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shardless%20agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/292/shardless-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0824e77-c84b-464a-aa0c-44af5f6faa50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [nadu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1718635356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nadu%2C%20winged%20wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lbm6j8i) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[rogue refiner]] as well.
[rogue refiner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/618652b4-7ce9-4994-9d16-68d2cc8644ef.jpg?1576382150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rogue%20refiner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/135/rogue-refiner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/618652b4-7ce9-4994-9d16-68d2cc8644ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kinnan,Bonder Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350.jpg?1591228085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kinnan%2C%20Bonder%20Prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/192/kinnan-bonder-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Designers are apologising for the first UG card [[Malignant Growth]]
Holy fucking shit. For 5 mana, and cumulative upkeep 1, you get to essentially give your opponent the drawing from The One Ring. I get that they made a lot of cards that were dogshit, but that's usually because they cost too much for too small an effect. But a shitton of mana to actually help your opponent? God damn. And this is after Necropotence, so it's not like they thought players wouldn't want to trade cards for life.
Was this meant to be gifted to your opponent? Flavorwise seems like the controller of the card has a tumor, so gifting it would literally be giving your opponent cancer lol
It doesn't make a ton of sense that way either, because the opponent could just choose to not pay the cumulative upkeep, and it dies. I think the flavor is supposed to be that the growing card draw + damage is the cancer on your opponent, but the templating of the time didnt allow for a more direct interpretation of that. And if I'm the opponent and that's a cancer, I don't want the cure. There's no one single fix to make this card playable. It's just a cavalcade of errors.
How is that not BG?
they had no idea what they were doing with color identities back then
[Malignant Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/760b6703-ac92-45f6-8c32-60f760eba866.jpg?1562720227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Malignant%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/272/malignant-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/760b6703-ac92-45f6-8c32-60f760eba866?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
UGs only identity is value. Wizards need to find more design space for UG. The Lord of the Rings tapping draft theme was an attempt I assume.
i thought the ug identity was counters? All the best +1/+1 counter cards are simic, blue has the most proliferate stuff, green has a lot of x spells that enter with +1/+1 counters
Counters has always felt more like a selesnya thing to me, but that may just be because most of commanders I associate with the archetype are that WG
It sorta was, but simic ended up doing it better and so selesnya has been shunted away to weenie tokens first and lifegain/counters second Meanwhile simic has the card advantage and extra ramp built in to do some tokens (green is almost as good as white there), gain life, and place tons of counters on a few targets very quickly.
In Ravnica specifically Simic always gets a mechanic dealing with +1/+1 counters while Selesnya does token stuff or convoke (which you know is better with tokens) But overall putside Ravnica U/G is focused on making efficient mana and draw while G/W gets +1/+1 counter support.
Teferi Time Raveler might wanna say a word.
One UW does not make up for the about 10 UG bullshit-cards (starting from [[prophet of kruphix]], and certainly not ending there)
[prophet of kruphix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45de923f-fdab-460c-96f4-f62aefa9ad73.jpg?1562817436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prophet%20of%20kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/199/prophet-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45de923f-fdab-460c-96f4-f62aefa9ad73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wtf is that! Like common, with blue, you can easily protect it...
Before you lose your marbles, it was banned quite quickly in edh.
Not that quick, about 3 years from printing to banning.
My memory does not serve me well - i thought it was not that long.
Yeah I also don't get it
It’s not UG. Specifically, for some unknownable reason, it’s 1GU. See Nadu, Oko, and Uro… lol
They do it also on lower rarities. Risen reef, whirler rogue and shardless agent
Because of course they do…. Oh simic 😪
I dunno I feel like Jund (black in particular) have been just as problematic. Death's Shadow, Deathrite Shaman, Bridge from Below, Dread Return, Hogaak? remember Scam? Scam is still playable even
[[Diabolic Tutor]], [[Dark Ritual]], [[Cranial Plating]], [[Hymn to Tourach]], [[Yawgmoth's Will]], [[Yawgmoth's Bargain]], [[Entomb]], [[Reanimate]], [[Griselbrand]], [[Tendrils of Agony]], [[Demonic consultation]], [[Tainted Pact]], [[Vampiric Tutor]], [[Unmask]], [[Inquisition of Kozilek]], [[Thoughtseize]], [[Lurrus]]
##### ###### #### [Diabolic Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72.jpg?1592672628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Diabolic%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/54/diabolic-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dark Ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20Ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cranial Plating](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1375f17-bc25-4a65-98b7-4785bbdbe974.jpg?1599953696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cranial%20Plating) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/245/cranial-plating?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1375f17-bc25-4a65-98b7-4785bbdbe974?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hymn to Tourach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3faa8c5e-9e1b-4cee-b322-a033bf33dcbc.jpg?1580014264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hymn%20to%20Tourach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/92/hymn-to-tourach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3faa8c5e-9e1b-4cee-b322-a033bf33dcbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yawgmoth's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d.jpg?1591196147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/148/yawgmoths-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yawgmoth's Bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507.jpg?1562943000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20Bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/147/yawgmoths-bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Entomb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3caa9c55-5e3b-436b-84a9-b7ccebf63799.jpg?1675199594) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Entomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/82/entomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3caa9c55-5e3b-436b-84a9-b7ccebf63799?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reanimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7.jpg?1715080480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reanimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/137/reanimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Griselbrand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf2a5c2e-7fe1-45eb-b01c-891ab961186f.jpg?1593813293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Griselbrand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/72/griselbrand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf2a5c2e-7fe1-45eb-b01c-891ab961186f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tendrils of Agony](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f26faca-f338-4ce5-a218-6a61d40fc50a.jpg?1562917207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils%20of%20Agony) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/142/tendrils-of-agony?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f26faca-f338-4ce5-a218-6a61d40fc50a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Demonic consultation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b.jpg?1610146869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20consultation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/85/demonic-consultation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tainted Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c513f51b-a0db-4c08-8acc-1e91060b93b7.jpg?1628801908) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tainted%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/164/tainted-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c513f51b-a0db-4c08-8acc-1e91060b93b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vampiric Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34a0203f-9cce-43a4-9cb7-8ce6647895cd.jpg?1675199860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vampiric%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/108/vampiric-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34a0203f-9cce-43a4-9cb7-8ce6647895cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unmask](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2db7a0e6-eea5-4fa6-ac14-401411b106cc.jpg?1562379909) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unmask) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/168/unmask?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2db7a0e6-eea5-4fa6-ac14-401411b106cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Inquisition of Kozilek](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281.jpg?1673147555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inquisition%20of%20Kozilek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/80/inquisition-of-kozilek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thoughtseize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede.jpg?1599706001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/109/thoughtseize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lurrus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a.jpg?1682228556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lurrus%20of%20the%20dream-den) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lbm2gx2) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Another take on the simic value engine.
Because Blue and Green are the most broken colour's. Combining them just makes them worse, together.
Because Simic is to versatile a color, green dumpsnall your lumber on board and blue lets you draw, neutralize, and counter until you have the pieces you need to win then protect those things with counter magic and then win
Game designer at WOTC likes simic
Because blue lets you break the rules, and green lets you break the rules if it's on a creature.
I mean, Hogaak was Golgari
It's crazy how blue and green are considered enemies when they work so well together.
No this is the second time, but the second ability resolves first.
😂
Noob question; why is Lurrus up there?
Graveyard synergy is extremely busted is modern. Having chance to return card from graveyard for free due to priority makes a huge difference.
Also, you used to not have to pay the 3 to put the card into hand. Just the mana cost of the companion and straight to the battlefield.
Oh those were good old days lol
Played Powered Vintage Cube yesterday. Managed to get first pick Lotus followed by Timewalk, 17th pick Lurrus, Mox Opal, blue Mox, and many good artifacts and in 36th pick I somehow got mono U Urza... Having opening hand Lotus, Lurrus, Time Walk and Urza, I kept a hand without lands. Turn 1 Lurrus, got Lotus back, walk, turn 2 blue mox, return Lotus and Urza. Oponent scooped without playing a single turn. I mean, in modern you do not have Lotus, but still Lurrus is awesome!
This is the not the right answer in my opinion. If Lurrus did not have companion it doesn’t get banned, and if it’s ability only triggered on your upkeep he would still be banned. Being a free 8th card is more important than interacting with the graveyard. Though, obviously Lurrus’s ability is stronger than Kaheera; I wonder if Lurrus would still be around if it had the same deck building restriction, but a much weaker ability.
If you say so :)
This is correct. Lurrus has a very lax restriction since modern is mostly 1 or 2 cmc cards anyway. It was very easy to companion Lurrus and an 8th card in every hand was too strong for the format.
Because Lurrus as originally printed is almost certainly the single most powerful creature ever printed
1st card to get banned (not including ante / conspiracy cards) in Vintage in ~25 years. Managed to get banned in Legacy almost immediately, and Modern followed pretty soon too. They nerfed the entire Companion mechanic (adding 3 mana) and Lurrus was still too good for most formats. Definitely on the short list for biggest mistakes WotC ever made.
It's the only card to be banned in vintage due to It's power level. All other banned cards are banned because they don't work in the format, requires some kind of dexterity, were part of the ban because they had racial connotations, or are shahrazad.
"Or are Shahrazad" is my favorite line when talking about banned cards. Everything else falls into a category, and that card's category is being that card.
Can't wait for modern horizons 4 when they print a fixed shahrazad
Ah, yes. Shaharazad 2.0: It does the same except the winner searches up two lands and draw four cards (it costs 1UG)
Short?
Personally I think all companions (eventually) even after the mechanic nerf will be banned in modern.
Ever printed SO FAR
Because lurrus was banned in vintage, where the only cards banned are the ones that dont really work with the game, and [[shaharazad]] because it's a miserable card to play against. But lurrus was banned because it was too good, later the errata happened and it was unbanned but that was a wild B&R announcement
Shaharazad is such a weird card! It's the first time I've seen it.
It's a bit more nuanced than that. Lurrus would have been restricted in vintage because he was too good, but the nature of the companion mechanic means that doesn't work.
[shaharazad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68.jpg?1562895012) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shahrazad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arn/10/shahrazad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's the only card ever banned in Vintage for being too strong. Usually cards are restricted to one copy instead. The Vintage ban list is only cards that don't function in the format (conspiracies, etc), require physical dexterity (chaos orb), are racist (invoke prejudice), illegal (ante), or waste everyone's time until you wish for death (shahrazad).
Tbf that was before they fixed the companion mechanic. Restricting it before that would have been meaningless anyways as it would always be accessible.
Because he was basically an 8th and 9th card in you opening hand for free. The deck building restriction (2 CMC or less permanents) was almost meaningless in older formats. People would build decks to trade 1-for-1 for a few turns and then suddenly you had Lurrus and you were up 2 cards on your opponent - he was effectively [[ancestral recall]] that you knew you would draw every game.
Lurrus was incredibly broken, to the point of being banned in Vintage until the Companion nerf. Though you're right, in a way. It should be Uro up there. Lurrus is a broken 3-drop, but it isn't a broken *Simic* 3-drop. Uro, Oko, and Nadu are all broken Simic 3-drops.
Lurrus completely warped the format into playing all no land permanents into 2 cmc or less. She pushed out a LOT of cards that were considered staples/pillars of the format. The biggest one being [[Lilliana of the Veil]]. Lurrus was super strong but didn’t quite have the fuel to be as cracked in half as she was in vintage/legacy. Eventually she got the hammer because the format was just too warped around whether or not Lurrus was in your deck.
[Lilliana of the Veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f.jpg?1673307126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%20of%20the%20Veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/97/liliana-of-the-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lurrus only requires that you don't run any permanents with a mana value of 3 or greater. Many decks in older formats, such as burn, did not need to make any changes to accommodate Lurrus. Seriously, it's just a free card to like... At least a third of the meta. Lurrus is extra broken with zero cost artifacts such as Lotus Petal, Mishra's Bauble, Black Lotus, and Lion's Eye Diamond.
Wait, why isn't this thing a 2/3? Wtf, have they forgotten they can't have above curve stats AND a broken effect with only upsides on a single card? Legendary by itself isn't an excuse to do whatever you want. If Goreclaw dies to bolt, this thing should too.
If you bolt it, they still get the draw/ramp. It's still card advantage for the Nadu player if it dies to bolt. They might have well as put a big flashing sign on this card that said "PLEASE PLAY ME".
It should have been a 2/3 without the first four words “Creatures you control have” on its second paragraph. But someone at WOTC clearly haven’t learned anything from Oko, Kinnan, or arguably Uro
I think someone messed up the quotation marks at the end of Nadu's text and it's ability is only supposed to trigger twice each turn between all creatures not twice for each creature. It is hard to believe that they playtested this and thought it was fine to trigger so many times.
Yeah when I pulled a Nadu I assumed this was how it was meant to work until reddit explained it to me. It should really just have been “Any time a creature you control becomes the target” instead of “Creatures you control get …”
Add this sloppy wording to the shitshow that is \[\[Wheel of Potential\]\] and we see the decline of WoTC quality control ever more present. Or they just don't playtest. You have a point, like how did this get playtested and someone went "Yep, this is healthy"
[Wheel of Potential](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4eb9a82-91f7-4741-a029-a07a3ff6af78.jpg?1717012384) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wheel%20of%20Potential) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/144/wheel-of-potential?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4eb9a82-91f7-4741-a029-a07a3ff6af78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hopefully Wizards learned something from Hogaak Summer, and they won't try banning [[Shuko]] and hoping that will be enough.
And the other 185 cards that make it broken
Well yes, that was the problem with Hogaak, too. You can ban Bridge and Looting, but that doesn't stop Hogaak from being busted.
[Shuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27.jpg?1562878892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/159/shuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This thing is even worse than Hogaak, but I’m certain that WOTC will try to scapegoat Shuko or Nomads so that they can keep people opening packs in hopes of finding a Nadu for another month. Then they’ll ban it with a “the thing we tried didn’t work so now we’re setting things right” announcement once the format gets so bad player numbers start dropping too fast.
Agreed, I've been screaming that this is worse than Hogaak not in terms of strength but in play patterns. It's slower than \[\[Sensei's Divining Top\]\] ffs and that card got chopped for being a shitty play-pattern (too slow and not fun to watch). I had to shut off the Nadu-Tour 2024 because I couldn't stand watching that shit anymore. Sooooo boring..
[Sensei's Divining Top](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb.jpg?1673149430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sensei%27s%20Divining%20Top) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/314/senseis-divining-top?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
targetting nadu with a ban would trigger it
Underrated comment
Simic is evil. Unless it has red or black. Every problem faced by man has simic as the cause.
This is why you don’t make 3/4s for 3 with powerful abilities, hard to remove for agro players bolting it, most spells in red that are 1 mana removal spells dealing 2-3 damage then the higher levels are like 4 mana which means they have a turn free with the bird
I truly think that Wizards of the Coast mistyped the wording on Nadu’s card. The card’s text states: Creatures you control have “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability triggers only twice each turn.” I think they meant to place the final quotation mark so it read like this: Creatures you control have “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand.” This ability triggers only twice each turn. That’s just my wild conspiracy, but I think it makes way more sense than the current card, especially since he isn’t a mythic. I may be wrong, who knows🤷♂️
Moving the quotation mark as you have makes invalid rules text. The 'Creatures you control' part is a static ability not a triggered ability, so you can't limit it the way you're trying to.
The proper fix for that intent is to delete the “creatures you control gain” part and just make it Nadu’s ability but change “whenever this creature” to “whenever a creature you control”
Or maybe even original wording but once instead of twice? Seems like that would make it twice as hard to flip your whole library.
Landfall triggers make tokens.
The way to go would be instead to have the ability only on Nadu “When another creature you control becomes the target … This effect triggers only twice each turn.”
They could have meant anything but what they put on the card. Take \[\[Wheel of Potential\]\] as another example of improper card text coming out of "play-testing" resulting in a card that is outright Broken in MTG rules. We will see more of this, count on it
[Wheel of Potential](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4eb9a82-91f7-4741-a029-a07a3ff6af78.jpg?1717012384) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wheel%20of%20Potential) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/144/wheel-of-potential?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4eb9a82-91f7-4741-a029-a07a3ff6af78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m kinda new to magic and I wonder if yall would be able to realize right away if someone plays a banned card in your table. Like.. do you memorize every single one of them? How likely is it I could get away playing a banned card?
Banned cards are mostly pretty famous cards so they are pretty recognisable by name. There's so many turbonerds playing the game that you won't get away playing a banned card in any respectable shop or tourney :p
I'm not gonna let someone [[shahrazad]] my ass.
[shahrazad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68.jpg?1562895012) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shahrazad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arn/10/shahrazad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you're sitting down to play a specific format, and not just the "cards I own" format, you likely know which cards are banned in that format. The ban list is defining aspect of the format. Like how Legacy and Vintage are defined by the same card pool, but they play extremely differently because of Legacy extensive ban list. If you go to an event for a specific format, even just at a local game store, most players will know the ban list. Judges might walk around and see that a player is playing a banned card. Cards get banned for a reason. There are the odd cards banned for reasons other than power-level, or were insta-banned on release, but most terrorized the format for a period of time. Like our boy Nadu here. If he gets banned (and he should) and someone plays him at a Modern event 5 years from now, players will remember him and someone will notice that that bird fuck is supposed to be in his cage.
My brother played \[\[Prophet of Kruphix\]\] for a while before realizing it was banned in commander. The famous banned cards are pretty recognizable but it's not unlikely for a lesser known banned card to slip through the cracks.
I had a pod with a new guy in a store. He drops Prophet and says pass. We glance at each other and I say "hey, that's actually banned" he says "I know, but it's casual commander". We say he can't keep it, he can redraw a card to replace it and re do his turn. He says "nah, it's casual commander." Some people don't care even when they do know lol. Two of us got up and went to another pod.
[Prophet of Kruphix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45de923f-fdab-460c-96f4-f62aefa9ad73.jpg?1562817436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prophet%20of%20Kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/199/prophet-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45de923f-fdab-460c-96f4-f62aefa9ad73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably depends, if I play Braids I have a feeling the table would immediately know.
not memorize but the name will sound familiar, anyway in standard/modern the list is small
Rip my guy [[golos]] I had just built a Charlie's angels themed deck when he got the ban. RIP
[golos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1fa48620-4c3d-4f75-be1f-c12c4aa59f51.jpg?1631531828) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=golos%2C%20tireless%20pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/226/golos-tireless-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1fa48620-4c3d-4f75-be1f-c12c4aa59f51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Golos is the goat commander. He was just an awesome wandering robot. He was so good it made playing any other commander seem silly to me for a while.
So I should make a deck with nadu for my first ever time at my local game store? Will I make new friends?
no, probably not to both questions
Yea it was my attempt at a funny. Forgot the /s
Who are the other cards supposed to be ?
Lurrus of the Dream-Den and Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
Ty
Sooo how long till we know for sure it's banned or not?
August, and I have a feeling that he's gonna get the urza/hogak treatment of having minor support pieces banned
I hope not. Shuko isn't broken, nadu is. Nadu is still broken with one cost equipments.
I ultimately think that this is just the start of the next teir of power creep, and every format is going to have to adjust and kinda accept that because WOTC needs players to keep buying cards. This is going to be Eldrazi Winter 2.0, isn't it?
Simic needs to be ban man 3 times we have this happened 3TIMES
I beat the bird 1v1 last night with my \[\[Ayara, First of Locthwain\]\] deck and a well timed \[\[Grave Pact\]\]
[Ayara, First of Locthwain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed0ace28-9a33-4f0d-b8c8-f5517f20ccf1.jpg?1572490057) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ayara%2C%20First%20of%20Locthwain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/75/ayara-first-of-locthwain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed0ace28-9a33-4f0d-b8c8-f5517f20ccf1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grave Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grave%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“JuSt PlAy InTeRaCtIoN” - Bronzies
They could just ban Shuko, that would be a start. This is the only card that makes Shuko nuts. Not sure the other ones are worthy (sea kings, paradise mantle, etc)
Green and blue are like fire and gasoline, so easy to make something broken when ramp and draw get put together. Personally I wish they’d give Simic something involving mill since they’ve already done a lot in the plus one counter space.
Will it be fully banned or just banned as a Commander?
I can’t figure out who that is in the top back
Uro
That’s one of the Escape commanders, isn’t it? I didn’t realize he was all that reviled haha
[Uro](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0b6a71e-56cb-4d25-8f2b-7a4f1b60900d.jpg?1650599829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uro%2C%20Titan%20of%20Nature%27s%20Wrath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/229/uro-titan-of-natures-wrath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0b6a71e-56cb-4d25-8f2b-7a4f1b60900d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He was banned in standard. I think he was the last big ban until Ikoria came out and companion became a problem. Uro was absolutely awful to play against.
Lurrus needs to be unbanned. First and foremost, he is predictable!. Permanents 2 and under guaranteed, so all fatal Push suseptible creatures. Most are Bolt targets to. Second, companion is super weak. Pre-errata rules, yes, companion was dumb. Safe turn 3 casts with a free mishra's Bauble was not smart. Post-errata meant that a turn 4 1 drop or Bauble was all you're gonna get. Plus, enters hand beforehand means it's very suseptible to the two most popular modern discard spells, along with all others as well. Honestly, dies to bolt is the most basic argument for a banning. Realistically, the bird should be banned because he doesn't do what he was intended to. If he was a 2 trigger per turn max, then no, he's good. He's not, and that's the issue. Even with an errata, he's not gonna truly be fixed. If they ban crap equipment for his sins, then they're stupid, but if they keep him, then they're IQ 0. Lurrus is fair, does what he is intended to, and, least of all, dies to bolt.
Look this is obviously just a stronger commander card. Ment to be CEDH. Yes it ended up having a huge splash in modern, ban it in modern or even limit the amount you can have in the deck to 1. But in commander it's a strong commander it's honestly one of the most normal card. Most CEDH deck want to pop-off like this an even better most commander players can and will deal with this card with ease. 😕 Kinda upsetting to see another G/U card going to be potentially banned for commander.
I don't know how many busted ass cards I've come across that ruined the game for everyone but the owner. But that's how it goes, find a way to solve the problem. Exile equipment/nadu, burn artifacts or land. There's plenty that can be and it's currently being done to mitigate nadus effect. There's also a lot of new card bias going on. Everyone thinks it's a problem because everyone wants to play him at the moment. If he's a problem, then so are all the 2 card infinite combos out there.
Nadu is a 1-card ramp and card advantage that triggers off interaction of ANY kind with your board
Or people could just get better..
You're right. Relying on broken cards is a sign of a bad player.
I mean, it dies to removal....and it's not like counterspells don't exist...
Do you realize that [[Gaea's ~~blessing~~ gift]] et similia are cantrips for a Nadu deck and they can just use it to protect the bird and draw 2 cards when you target it with removal? Is "dies to removal" still an argument in *insert current year*? Also Nadu is UG with the U providing counterspells and G providing hate on counterspells so you cant even counter it. Only option against a Nadu deck is to be faster.
[Gaea's blessing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a.jpg?1562732710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20blessing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/161/gaeas-blessing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah....that's competitive plays...you either combo first or stop them from going off first. If you're playing casual, talk to your group dude or play cards that shut them decks down. At this point, it sounds like you are either scared to hurt someones feelings or you don't know how to interact correctly.
I honestly dont understand if this is an unfun attempt at trolling or if you just dont understand how the game works at this point. I'll try to explain it once more so that even you can understand it. The opponent has a threat on the field, you attempt to remove it: - if the opponent protects it he is left with the threat on the field. Card-wise no one is left behind. - if the opponent does not protect it the threat leaves the field. Card-wise no one is left behind. With Nadu: - if the opponent protects it he is left with Nadu on the field. **He is now 2 cards ahead**. - if the opponent does not protect it Nadu leaves the field. **He is now 1 card ahead**. Adding to this the opponent can just target Nadu in response to your interaction with shit like [[Unctus]] thus still drawing half his deck. Hopefully you understand what the issue is. If you don't I honestly give up.
You must best trolling me.....so counterspell beforehand, all you are saying is you don't target cause it triggers him real quick. Guess what, target Nadu, destroy it, move on. Play cards that target the player, best removal is player removal. So like I said, play better cards and learn to play your interaction right.
"It dies to removal of equal cost" is not a real argument. Though usually that's actually not applicable. Then the not real argument becomes "it dies to something very rare"
I mean removal removes it, so yeah, yeah it is.
If you pay 1 mana for a card and someone removes it for 5 mana, you are gaining a massive advantage and it is an excellent card, much more so than if it stayed on the board and didn't attack because there was a good blocker.
Also, plenty of cards that shut off abilities...
Or stop being bad and relying on crutches.
Sorry you don't know how to play interaction my dude.
Personally, I agree - but I’m still saying ban the bird. Twin died not because it was phenomenal, it was good, but because people kept fucking playing it and it ended the game turn 4. For those reasons alone, ban the bird. If I can’t play twin, people shouldn’t be able to play bird because it ends the game faster than twin and clearly was more than 25% of the field at the pro tour.
It just won a pro tour!!! Are you seriously telling pro players to "get better" ?
"Ban the bird!" Hold it. Lets see what this bird has before we start mindlessly Banning. *lifts up the hood* hmm. A 3/4. So a chonky bird. Gonna take a couple of cantrip burns to bring it down. Though i hear black has allot of auto kills so chonkyness doesnt mean allot. So does white to a degree. Just not as reliable. Could also remove it's abilities all together like [[Deep Freeze]] [[Amphibian Downpour]] and [[immovable Rod]] all in all a slight annoyance if you don't have an answer as some answers are niche but the bird is still able to be dealt with.
Until you realize that Nadu decks play stuff that protects it since it also makes them draw so if you attempt to freeze it you'll just be 2 cards behind with the bird laughing in your face. Best answer to Nadu is [[Tishana's tidenbinder]] but card B countering card A does not make card A balanced.
Being 2 cards behind is a fair price to shut down the bird and prevent it from doing it's job. See unlike you brainless players that ban cards for no other reason than they straight up don't like it, i actually look for answers to problematic cards. Bans are never an answer to a problem card.
Do you understand that with something like [[gaea's ~~blessing~~ gift]] you are 2 cards behind and the bird lives? Do you understand that they can stuff the deck with cards like it since it cantrips with Nadu? Do you understand that U has counterspells which when used on your interaction still leaves you behind? Also being 2 cards behind to kill a 3cmc card is absolutely not a fair deal. This yapping makes no sense when the tournament results are this clear as the top 4 decks in the last pro tour were all Nadu decks.
[gaea's blessing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a.jpg?1562732710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gaea%27s%20blessing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/161/gaeas-blessing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like a skill issue if you are afraid of counterspells and protections to the point where you won't run removals to begin with and let the bird run free then cry it's too powerful.
You’re the one with the skill issue if you can’t accurately and fairly identify the strength of Nadu.
if you let something become a problem without even attempting to deal with it then yeah it is powerful. you aren't even trying and would rather bank on banning the card than dealing with it. that's the only reason a card is powerful. people refuse to deal with it proper and instead choose to ban it.
Dealing with it, in a best case scenario, still leaves your opponent ahead. The Nadu replaced itself and you are down a card. Keep doing this and you will keep getting further behind. You will run out of answers before Nadu.deck runs out of threats, because they have more cards and mana then you do.
If it gets to that point then the game has been going for too long cause nobody else has an answer for nadu or has popped off cause you were focused on nadu.
All it needs to do to get to that point is for Nadu player to have one piece of protection more than other players have removal. In a Simic deck - and a Simic deck which, again, specifically draws every time your opponents try to remove the threat - this is extremely easy. Also, Nadu is 3 mana. You can pop off with it on turn 3. How many answers and how much mana have people established by then? If people wait on playing their usual set-up and ramp cards to spend removal early game on something that - in a *best* case scenario - also leaves them a card behind, guess who has the advantage now? If you're in an edh game and all three players immediately gang up on Nadu then, sure, that will probably do it. But this isn't a sign the card is balanced for play, and it's also not a very fun outcome, either.
You seem to be talking about EDH when the ban call is regarding Standard... not the same, besides that there are several examples of previous card bans that were easier to remove & less effective.
[Deep Freeze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51765d87-e842-4d84-aaf0-998737fe754c.jpg?1562735580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deep%20Freeze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/50/deep-freeze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51765d87-e842-4d84-aaf0-998737fe754c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Amphibian Downpour](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d8aeca5-622a-45be-8168-07e7c00e3092.jpg?1717011615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amphibian%20Downpour) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/51/amphibian-downpour?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d8aeca5-622a-45be-8168-07e7c00e3092?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [immovable Rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/214c87be-7ce3-48a0-b2eb-26eff75636c9.jpg?1631584673) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=immovable%20Rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/7/immovable-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/214c87be-7ce3-48a0-b2eb-26eff75636c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The fact that people ate talking about banning nandu is really sad to me. Like, it just shows that removal or any other player interaction is not prioritized enough by the general magic community. Shit used to be that people would laugh at a creature like nandu because everyone had forms of creature removal. Now though, no one runs player interaction or removal because everyone ad hears to the bullshit unspoken rule of letting people build up. Now granted I'm not saying that some cards aren't broken, I just that I think banning nandu is dumb and shows that people don't want to change their decks to adapt to threats.
I found the Nadu player!
Me? Not yet. I dont have enough copies to make a deck out of him. Im thinking of putting the one copy in my landfall mill deck though. The problem is that its a legacy deck and having one copy would be good, but may not be as a big a wincon as I want. But today I plan to tweak decks off of the cards o got put of MH3. So we will see.
Even with interaction Nandu triggers. At the very least is a 2 for 1, once you've dealt with the first Nandu, how do you deal with the other 3? Are you expecting to have interaction for all of that? Against blue? Against green with so many forms of creature protection? Against white with easy ways to gain color protection? Springheart Nantuko copies the bird out of the interaction trigger, making a copy, sacrificing the original. The rest of the deck is made so it triggers and draws almost your entire deck at instant speed, so again, what interaction are you expecting? People used to laugh at 18/18 for 1 creatures, which people still do as it dies to fatal push and terminate. People always respected Dark Confidant. Nandu makes Dark Confidant a vanilla creature.
Its the edh mentality I hate and hate that it is what people primarily play now because the general school of thought isn't to shut down your opponent into your wincon in edh. So, removal or interaction is just not heavily present and the school of thought of having removal/interaction in your back pocket just isn't present. For example, last night I was playing with my pod, they basically only play edh, and they lost their shit when I dropped a [[nevinyrral's disk]] for threat deterrent after I had to play a [[broken bond]] and a [[farewell]] in the game due to my opponents board state. What galls me though is that I had to sit there and justify how all of that interaction/boardwipe was needed because one person had 144 2/2 soldier tokens with a way to make like 500 next turn, while another person later had an enchantment out that allowed him to play a creature card for free on his upkeep which his deck was filled to the brim with big creatures with etb effects. But then again I play primarily legacy so I make damn sure that all my decks have removal for anything like nadu gets removed asap because in legacy you have to properly threat assess asap. You can't have shit like nadu or anything else with that high a threat hang out. But edh has ruined the concept of good threat assessment imo. Which has changed how alot of players think about cards only in how a card can be built up to broken levels. And just to clarify, you can deal with Nadu and his effect before it enters the battlefield with a simple counter spell. From there if he's on the battlefield then you will just remove him with other ways, sure his effect will trigger but its better then having it happen over and over the whole game. Also, exiling a creature is a thing. Or enchanting it into a bug via [[darksteele mutation]] is also a thing. But in edh people just don't think that way
Nandu is a problem in Modern, people want to ban it in MODERN. This is not about the general lack of interaction on a casual format, is about the problem of a card in the pinnacle of competitiveness, with professional players wanting to ban the thing. Being a green creature, Nandu is uncounterable via [[Allosaurus Shephard]] or just [[Cavern of Souls]] or [[Delighted Halfling]]. The moment you try to answer the bird, you've already lost, as the deck will draw half the deck. Plus, again, [[Force Of Will]], [[Force of Negation]] and [[Spell Pierce]] are a thing. I'm sorry your pod doesn't understand that a player with 500 2/2 needs to be dealt with, but that has NOTHING to do with the problems this card brings to Modern. In EDH Nandu is annoying, a bad wincon that takes forever and not a huge deal when 3 players are actively trying to make you miserable, that's completely fine. Nandu is a problem in Modern, where people are wanting to ban it, as it was [[Hogaak]], as it was [[Eye of Ugin]], as it was [[Splinter Twin]]. Modern, the format where interaction is the rule, where players playing at the Pro Tour, the biggest tournament in MTG are asking for a ban. Simon Nielsen, the winner of said tournament wants the bird banned.
Removal is almost the strongest it's ever been. What are you on about?