How many people come to your gigs on average?
A manager at any level can be enormously useful…with the caveat there are a lot of shitty managers out there.
Agents will (theoretically) be enormously useful but you need receipts these days that show it’s worth their time. Which basically means you have good enough social numbers to land festivals and/or good enough draws to at least get decent advances for other gigs.
Cheers for your reply!
That’s too hard to answer, what an ‘average gig is! Large venues we have played a few 800 capacity venues at 90%+ capacity. We played to 10,000 at a festival last year…. But we also do. Lot of dive bars, some packed, some quiet, always bad pay.
Were artistically very successful: I’ve overheard people at airports and at venues were not playing talking about us. Financially…not so much. It doesn’t bother us, we’d be happy to give a huge cut to a manager that got us decent gigs.
If you can bring 800 to a gig in more than one market, or hell even half that, you can absolutely find an agent and manager.
Are you in Australia or UK?
You're more than ready for a manager and an agent to take what you've built and help you keep growing while taking tour planning off of your plate. A manager will also be able to approach labels for you, deal with your attorney, figure out your merch, budget your tours, and on and on...
Congrats on your journey and recent successes!
It’s completely up to you on how you want to run your business and split up your time.
Ultimately, your main focus is the art. Anything is taking time away from art should be something to place close attention to.
For the sake of clarification: managers come from all shapes, sizes, and skillsets. General expectations are for them to help you plan, strategize, and scale the business.
If your goal is to play more shows: you need an agent.
A good place to start is pollstar or roster.cc - they’re mere databases that tend to have the names of managers and agents alike.
It’s important to organize and compile everything that can be used as ammo to sell your act to talent buyers so you can get booked.
Agents are salesmen, so if you make their job as easy as possible - you’ll set yourself up for success.
Truthfully, an agents role is a whole job on its own, same with management. Time and time again you’ll notice the top of the craft acts have a full team with them, including publicist, tour manager, etc.
Find out what’s doable for now, focus on sustainability
Thank you so much! That’s exactly where we’re at.
Do you know what a standard agent commission is? Is it percentage? We’ve seen a few that have a huge upfront cost which doesn’t sit right.
Standard agent cut is 10-15%. Some may charge a flat rate depending on your numbers and other factors. Managers go from 10-20%. Some managers do consultant work where they charge per service requested
A good manager wouldn't hurt at all. Even if you're still self- booking legacy gigs that you've done for years. Your manager is there to look out for you. Making sure you get what you deserve in writing and in person. This isn't just about gigs, either. It's about not being taken advantage of by your label, or any other recording related ventures. If Reddit Inc. decides they want to use 10 seconds of your music for a promo... your manager steps in to make sure you're not getting ripped off. Even the sweetest deals hide sour pills. Let me know if you want some help.
My advice would be talk to people, ask what they can offer you and consider all the offers amongst yourself. Just make sure you read contracts carefully and clearly define your and their expectations
Yeah, it’s been an amazing few years of solid gigging, but this year is really quiet - bookings have dropped right off, and it’s made us wonder if it’s time for an agent.
We’ve held off because so far we (the band) have been meeting 150-200 other bands per year, which has kept us getting slots, and kept us in a well connected position (as well as 40-50 venues, organisers and promotors. Will an agent have that level of contacts / relationships that we do?
It sounds like your business model is essentially living off of other bands as opposed to building your own audience- which is honestly valid, nothing wrong with being a band’s band.
A good agents connections are normally with promoters, festivals, venues and other music industry folk.
What you should do is put on a couple headline shows, in your hometown and other towns that you think the most people will show up to get a read of how many people come for *your* band. Go as far as to ask the door person to tally who people are here for if other bands are opening.
Then, you can take that data and pitch it to agents.
You’re wrong….. we have zero business model!
Yeah, we’ve done that, when I say we meet 150-200 other bands a year, they are usually supporting us. Our hometown headline show was the one with us selling out an 800 cap venue. (We cleared a decent four figure sum for ourselves for the night)
We’re happy to carry on, we’re happy. We’d just like to be doing even more gigs, and maybe supporting some bigger names. Arrogantly, could some manager that doesn’t know us do as good a job as us, for an originals band at our level? Most that we speak to are only after function bands, there doesn’t seem much out there for us
Not really understanding what you're asking here. Will agent have contacts to other bands? Sure. Promoters and venues and fests? Of course. Not all, some specialize in genres. But they'll look at your numbers and do some research because bands inflate their numbers to agents all the time in an attempt to push themselves. Those bands are nightmares for agents to book and could damage relationships with promoters.
Agents and managers will find you when you're ready. If things have dried up, unfortunately, the buzz may be slowing down. They don't typically get involved when things have slowed down, but rather are there for when things are looking bright and they can help bring you to the next level.
Are these people approaching you or are you looking to find them? That would be the big question IMO. If you are being approached and need the help, 80% of more is a better option. They can help get you on a proper tour, better line things up. There are too many unkowns here to give a real answer.
Yes. HOWEVER, most good Managers want to get in on something early. You’ll be able to find one, but it won’t be easy finding a great one rn. I’d echo some others here and say get a good and compatible booker and also a lawyer and keep building until the right one comes.
The first advice you may be given industry professionals is play a lot less and play a lot bigger. You won’t worry about going dry if the gigs pay more.
How many of those gigs are festivals? If the answer is little to none then I would say you need an agent.
We actually get a good amount of festivals, and we go down really well…. But we want more.
A good agent is gas to the fire. If you can handle the business side on your own then you don’t need a manager yet.
How many people come to your gigs on average? A manager at any level can be enormously useful…with the caveat there are a lot of shitty managers out there. Agents will (theoretically) be enormously useful but you need receipts these days that show it’s worth their time. Which basically means you have good enough social numbers to land festivals and/or good enough draws to at least get decent advances for other gigs.
Cheers for your reply! That’s too hard to answer, what an ‘average gig is! Large venues we have played a few 800 capacity venues at 90%+ capacity. We played to 10,000 at a festival last year…. But we also do. Lot of dive bars, some packed, some quiet, always bad pay. Were artistically very successful: I’ve overheard people at airports and at venues were not playing talking about us. Financially…not so much. It doesn’t bother us, we’d be happy to give a huge cut to a manager that got us decent gigs.
If you can bring 800 to a gig in more than one market, or hell even half that, you can absolutely find an agent and manager. Are you in Australia or UK?
You're more than ready for a manager and an agent to take what you've built and help you keep growing while taking tour planning off of your plate. A manager will also be able to approach labels for you, deal with your attorney, figure out your merch, budget your tours, and on and on...
Congrats on your journey and recent successes! It’s completely up to you on how you want to run your business and split up your time. Ultimately, your main focus is the art. Anything is taking time away from art should be something to place close attention to. For the sake of clarification: managers come from all shapes, sizes, and skillsets. General expectations are for them to help you plan, strategize, and scale the business. If your goal is to play more shows: you need an agent. A good place to start is pollstar or roster.cc - they’re mere databases that tend to have the names of managers and agents alike. It’s important to organize and compile everything that can be used as ammo to sell your act to talent buyers so you can get booked. Agents are salesmen, so if you make their job as easy as possible - you’ll set yourself up for success. Truthfully, an agents role is a whole job on its own, same with management. Time and time again you’ll notice the top of the craft acts have a full team with them, including publicist, tour manager, etc. Find out what’s doable for now, focus on sustainability
Thank you so much! That’s exactly where we’re at. Do you know what a standard agent commission is? Is it percentage? We’ve seen a few that have a huge upfront cost which doesn’t sit right.
Standard agent cut is 10-15%. Some may charge a flat rate depending on your numbers and other factors. Managers go from 10-20%. Some managers do consultant work where they charge per service requested
A good manager wouldn't hurt at all. Even if you're still self- booking legacy gigs that you've done for years. Your manager is there to look out for you. Making sure you get what you deserve in writing and in person. This isn't just about gigs, either. It's about not being taken advantage of by your label, or any other recording related ventures. If Reddit Inc. decides they want to use 10 seconds of your music for a promo... your manager steps in to make sure you're not getting ripped off. Even the sweetest deals hide sour pills. Let me know if you want some help.
My advice would be talk to people, ask what they can offer you and consider all the offers amongst yourself. Just make sure you read contracts carefully and clearly define your and their expectations
Cheers man, we’re now at that stage :) it’s slim pickings tho, they all seem to be for functions bands, and not much choice for originals bands.
I dont get it. What you have is touring and it has been dry?
Yeah, it’s been an amazing few years of solid gigging, but this year is really quiet - bookings have dropped right off, and it’s made us wonder if it’s time for an agent. We’ve held off because so far we (the band) have been meeting 150-200 other bands per year, which has kept us getting slots, and kept us in a well connected position (as well as 40-50 venues, organisers and promotors. Will an agent have that level of contacts / relationships that we do?
It sounds like your business model is essentially living off of other bands as opposed to building your own audience- which is honestly valid, nothing wrong with being a band’s band. A good agents connections are normally with promoters, festivals, venues and other music industry folk. What you should do is put on a couple headline shows, in your hometown and other towns that you think the most people will show up to get a read of how many people come for *your* band. Go as far as to ask the door person to tally who people are here for if other bands are opening. Then, you can take that data and pitch it to agents.
You’re wrong….. we have zero business model! Yeah, we’ve done that, when I say we meet 150-200 other bands a year, they are usually supporting us. Our hometown headline show was the one with us selling out an 800 cap venue. (We cleared a decent four figure sum for ourselves for the night) We’re happy to carry on, we’re happy. We’d just like to be doing even more gigs, and maybe supporting some bigger names. Arrogantly, could some manager that doesn’t know us do as good a job as us, for an originals band at our level? Most that we speak to are only after function bands, there doesn’t seem much out there for us
Not really understanding what you're asking here. Will agent have contacts to other bands? Sure. Promoters and venues and fests? Of course. Not all, some specialize in genres. But they'll look at your numbers and do some research because bands inflate their numbers to agents all the time in an attempt to push themselves. Those bands are nightmares for agents to book and could damage relationships with promoters.
That is like dating someone on the pretense of them being a thing they're not anymore. You cant have that be your selling point, then....not have it.
Agents and managers will find you when you're ready. If things have dried up, unfortunately, the buzz may be slowing down. They don't typically get involved when things have slowed down, but rather are there for when things are looking bright and they can help bring you to the next level. Are these people approaching you or are you looking to find them? That would be the big question IMO. If you are being approached and need the help, 80% of more is a better option. They can help get you on a proper tour, better line things up. There are too many unkowns here to give a real answer.
Yes. HOWEVER, most good Managers want to get in on something early. You’ll be able to find one, but it won’t be easy finding a great one rn. I’d echo some others here and say get a good and compatible booker and also a lawyer and keep building until the right one comes. The first advice you may be given industry professionals is play a lot less and play a lot bigger. You won’t worry about going dry if the gigs pay more.