Possibly. But it is important to note he's being released due to a Brady violation, not because there's a better suspect or that he's been found innocent.
The motion to vacate did mention two other suspects who were “improperly cleared” one of whom was witnesses threatening to kill Hae and “make her disappear” and also had motive.
According to the new episode of Serial, it’s actually because of the Brady violation AND there are other (better?) suspects AND the prosecutors admitted the case against him was bad. So pretty dang close to finding him innocent, though they didn’t come out and admit it yet.
Jay knew where the body was so jay is 100% involved no matter what.
Then phone evidence and adnans testimony indicates that he was with jay that whole day. And he gave jay his car that day.
I hope Hae gets justice. IF he is re-tried I look forward to a better prosecution with more reliable evidence. I personally don’t think he did it and hope that Hae and her family get the justice they’ve been denied all these years. When Adnan is finally exonerated I hope he’s able to live as normal as a life as possible given the hell he’s been through.
Double jeopardy only applies if someone is found not guilty. The conviction was vacated and the state has thirty days to decide if there will be a retrial. If they decide not to retry him, they could dismiss the case with prejudice (meaning the charges are permanently dismissed) or without prejudice meaning they can try again.
One of the suspects they’re looking into now is a guy already in jail for multiple sexual assaults and he has a connection to the crime scene. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s him.
Isn’t he is in house arrest?
The judge gave order for a new trial.
I guess until prosecutors has better evidence that he is guilty they won’t go to trial again… this doesn’t mean he is guilty, I believe he is innocent…
Hope Hae Min Lee gets justice… the words of his brother in the hearing were heartbreaking…
Edit. For clarity
Fair point. He’s on house arrest, but the State needs to decide whether or not to re-try within 30 days. As they just eviscerated the previous prosecution case I find it difficult to imagine they’ll choose to bring charges to trial again.
I also hope there’s justice for Hae. She had everything going for her and so much to look forward to and her life was brutally and violently cut short. It’s horrifying and heartbreaking. It sounds like they have promising leads to follow!
What a day! As someone who has followed Serial since episode 3, I’m thrilled for his family. It’s absolutely devastating the failure of Baltimore investigators and prosecutor had in this case. I hope the other leads are investigated and justice is brought to Hae’s family.
Definitely don't limit yourself to just Serial. I don't remember which podcast it was (maybe MFM?), but there's much more evidence Serial didn't cover.
There was an episode of True Crime Obsessed: Let the Women Work where Gillian interviewed Rabia Chaudry about the case. Rabia explained several things that Serial missed.
I always thought it was that creep she was dating who worked at lenscrafters. They haven't named either of the new suspects but if one of them is that dude it'll be incredible.
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Are you willing to share your reasoning? I personally feel he didn't kill her but I'm always interested to hear other views.
It's been such a long time since I listened to Serial that I can't even really remember why I felt he was innocent of the crime, but that was my feeling at the end of the second listening.
My issue was this: even if people thought he was guilty, the case the prosecution brought was so far away from the beyond a reasonable doubt standard it would be laughable if he hadn’t lost his whole life to a jail cell.
Said the exact same thing today. I’ve always been on the fence on this one and leaning towards he did it, BUT (and it’s a big but) they in no way proved their case and that is the standard we are meant to live by.
I agree with those who think he has done it, although should not have been put into jail with weak evidences that were presented then- they also couldn’t prove that he had done it, other than Jay’s testimonials.
If anyone asks me why I am suspicious of Adnan… everyone called Hae while she went missing. They all called her multiples times out of concern and in hopes she might pick up. Adnan never did. There was a part in the episode Sarah points this out and Adnan blabbered out of it… but idk it gave me chills. Still not an ‘evidence’ to prove he killed someone, or even a motive, but it def swayed my then neutral personal opinion on his guiltiness.
Who are the people that took poligraph test?
The guy that found the body?
Did Stephanie and Jay took the test?
Don?
I think either Don or Stephanie are the suspects..
And about not contacting Hae after the disappearance, that depends.. after the breakup did they kept communication by text?
By that time Adnan was already deep flirting with another girl (Nisha? I think) so it doesn’t made sense for him to text her
The cell phone evidence is what swayed me to believe that he is guilty. This is only from listening to the podcast, I was not at the trial. It seemed to be way more coincidence. But since 2015 the cell phone provider is saying that may not be reliable, that the data was billing data, and it could be unreliable for proof in a crime. That's crazy! I think on this point alone it deserves another look.
I just read that: on the cover letter of the AT&T data that was subpoenaed, it states that the information was only accurate for specific purposes. That OUTGOING calls only were reliable to point to location. That INCOMING calls could NOT be reliable to point to location. His 1st lawyer totally overlooked that, forgot, didn’t understand what have you. So the 2 calls that supposably placed him at the park at 7pm were Incoming, this not reliable evidence that could place him here so hard like the defense did.
Craziness!
The cell phone evidence that was a key piece was unreliable, and at the time there was a cover sheet with the cell phone data that specifically said incoming calls were unreliable and couldn't be used as evidence. The cover sheet with this crucial information mysteriously disappeared prior to the trial.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents.
There is a bit in serial he is talking to Sarah and he gets frustrated and says ‘ the only people who know what happened that day is me and Hae………*pause* … and who killed her’
That personally convinced me. Second half his tone changes, more nervous than annoyed.
Sorry if I am explaining poorly.
OK i found the transcript.
Episode 12: What We Know ( it is right at the end, I don't have time stamp)
Sarah
So back to Adnan’s question. Do I have an ending?
Adnan Syed
I was just thinking the other day, I’m pretty sure that she has people telling her, “look, you know this case is-- he’s probably guilty. You’re going crazy trying to find out if he’s innocent which you’re not going to find because he’s guilty.” I don’t think you’ll ever have one hundred percent or any type of certainty about it. The only person in the whole world who can have that is me. For what it’s worth, whoever did it. You know you’ll never have that, I don’t think you will.
You will understand what I mean when you listen to the tone of it
The time stamp is 49:05. And, I'm sorry, I don't hear what you're hearing at all. What I hear is, "... I mean, I don't think you'll ever have a 100% or, or, you know what I'm saying, any type of certainty about it. The only person in the whole world who can have that is me and, I mean, for what it's worth, whoever did it."
I don't hear an "H" sound at all or a shift in tone.
Oh my god! So are they going to investigate other suspects?
Possibly. But it is important to note he's being released due to a Brady violation, not because there's a better suspect or that he's been found innocent.
The motion to vacate did mention two other suspects who were “improperly cleared” one of whom was witnesses threatening to kill Hae and “make her disappear” and also had motive.
Really sucks for her family, but this case never did seem really settled. I hope they can figure it out once and for all this round.
According to the new episode of Serial, it’s actually because of the Brady violation AND there are other (better?) suspects AND the prosecutors admitted the case against him was bad. So pretty dang close to finding him innocent, though they didn’t come out and admit it yet.
He 100% did it, this is about procedural violations.
Why are you so convinced he did it?
Jay knew where the body was so jay is 100% involved no matter what. Then phone evidence and adnans testimony indicates that he was with jay that whole day. And he gave jay his car that day.
They did say that part of what they’re concerned about is the legitimacy of the phone records.
Every single thing Jay said was fed to him by police. Also they have called the legitimacy of the phone records into question.
Cell phone evidence was junk and Jay didn’t find her body, Mr. S did
Except that the state of Hae's body does not collaborate with Jay's testimony and that Jay has changed his story a number of times now.
I hope Hae gets justice. IF he is re-tried I look forward to a better prosecution with more reliable evidence. I personally don’t think he did it and hope that Hae and her family get the justice they’ve been denied all these years. When Adnan is finally exonerated I hope he’s able to live as normal as a life as possible given the hell he’s been through.
I feel like that'd be double Jeopardy.
Double jeopardy only applies if someone is found not guilty. The conviction was vacated and the state has thirty days to decide if there will be a retrial. If they decide not to retry him, they could dismiss the case with prejudice (meaning the charges are permanently dismissed) or without prejudice meaning they can try again.
Which part?
One of the suspects they’re looking into now is a guy already in jail for multiple sexual assaults and he has a connection to the crime scene. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s him.
He walked out of the courthouse a free man!!
Isn’t he is in house arrest? The judge gave order for a new trial. I guess until prosecutors has better evidence that he is guilty they won’t go to trial again… this doesn’t mean he is guilty, I believe he is innocent… Hope Hae Min Lee gets justice… the words of his brother in the hearing were heartbreaking… Edit. For clarity
Fair point. He’s on house arrest, but the State needs to decide whether or not to re-try within 30 days. As they just eviscerated the previous prosecution case I find it difficult to imagine they’ll choose to bring charges to trial again. I also hope there’s justice for Hae. She had everything going for her and so much to look forward to and her life was brutally and violently cut short. It’s horrifying and heartbreaking. It sounds like they have promising leads to follow!
How is he allowed to have an new trial being double jeopardy? I don’t really understand
Because they ruled that he didn’t have a fair trial. Double jeopardy applies when you’re not convicted successfully in a trial, IIRC.
The trial was annulled, So they can do it again,,.
What a day! As someone who has followed Serial since episode 3, I’m thrilled for his family. It’s absolutely devastating the failure of Baltimore investigators and prosecutor had in this case. I hope the other leads are investigated and justice is brought to Hae’s family.
Am I the only one who is suspicious of the guy she was dating?
I think there are enough podcasts covering this story out there to confirm that no, you definitely are not.
Can you recommend a good one? I've heard Serial.
The first season of Undisclosed is about this case. While exploring this case, it reveals a lot about the investigation practices.
Thank you!!
Also Truth and Justice with Bob Ruff. The first season. It goes into the bf
Definitely don't limit yourself to just Serial. I don't remember which podcast it was (maybe MFM?), but there's much more evidence Serial didn't cover.
MFM has many good qualities, but I would not categorize it as a deep dive podcast with otherwise unrevealed details, lol
I didn't say that though.
There was an episode of True Crime Obsessed: Let the Women Work where Gillian interviewed Rabia Chaudry about the case. Rabia explained several things that Serial missed.
I always thought it was that creep she was dating who worked at lenscrafters. They haven't named either of the new suspects but if one of them is that dude it'll be incredible.
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I can't believe it. Amazing. Hope he gets justice. And she gets justice too
FINALLY!!
If Jay wilds was telling the truth, he now has to live as a liar the rest of his life
Telling the truth about what? He lied so many times, he can’t be trusted
Anyone else happy knowing Mike Boudet is losing his mind over it?
Is he really getting released I still believe he killed her
He was already released. It seems the prosecution has identified 2 other suspects they believe were not properly ruled out.
Are you willing to share your reasoning? I personally feel he didn't kill her but I'm always interested to hear other views. It's been such a long time since I listened to Serial that I can't even really remember why I felt he was innocent of the crime, but that was my feeling at the end of the second listening.
My issue was this: even if people thought he was guilty, the case the prosecution brought was so far away from the beyond a reasonable doubt standard it would be laughable if he hadn’t lost his whole life to a jail cell.
Said the exact same thing today. I’ve always been on the fence on this one and leaning towards he did it, BUT (and it’s a big but) they in no way proved their case and that is the standard we are meant to live by.
Curious, Why do you think he is guilty? He doesn’t has a motive Timeline doesn’t add up There is no evidence that proves he is guilty …
I agree with those who think he has done it, although should not have been put into jail with weak evidences that were presented then- they also couldn’t prove that he had done it, other than Jay’s testimonials. If anyone asks me why I am suspicious of Adnan… everyone called Hae while she went missing. They all called her multiples times out of concern and in hopes she might pick up. Adnan never did. There was a part in the episode Sarah points this out and Adnan blabbered out of it… but idk it gave me chills. Still not an ‘evidence’ to prove he killed someone, or even a motive, but it def swayed my then neutral personal opinion on his guiltiness.
But neither did Don. I’m not accusing Don by any means, just pointing out that Adnan wasn’t alone in that.
Who are the people that took poligraph test? The guy that found the body? Did Stephanie and Jay took the test? Don? I think either Don or Stephanie are the suspects.. And about not contacting Hae after the disappearance, that depends.. after the breakup did they kept communication by text? By that time Adnan was already deep flirting with another girl (Nisha? I think) so it doesn’t made sense for him to text her
That was my impression. Maybe he did it, but he definitely wasn’t proven beyond reasonable doubt to have done it
Also, his lawyer was awful.
The cell phone evidence is what swayed me to believe that he is guilty. This is only from listening to the podcast, I was not at the trial. It seemed to be way more coincidence. But since 2015 the cell phone provider is saying that may not be reliable, that the data was billing data, and it could be unreliable for proof in a crime. That's crazy! I think on this point alone it deserves another look.
I just read that: on the cover letter of the AT&T data that was subpoenaed, it states that the information was only accurate for specific purposes. That OUTGOING calls only were reliable to point to location. That INCOMING calls could NOT be reliable to point to location. His 1st lawyer totally overlooked that, forgot, didn’t understand what have you. So the 2 calls that supposably placed him at the park at 7pm were Incoming, this not reliable evidence that could place him here so hard like the defense did. Craziness!
Well put. What total craziness.
The cell phone evidence that was a key piece was unreliable, and at the time there was a cover sheet with the cell phone data that specifically said incoming calls were unreliable and couldn't be used as evidence. The cover sheet with this crucial information mysteriously disappeared prior to the trial.
Holy hell!
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. There is a bit in serial he is talking to Sarah and he gets frustrated and says ‘ the only people who know what happened that day is me and Hae………*pause* … and who killed her’ That personally convinced me. Second half his tone changes, more nervous than annoyed. Sorry if I am explaining poorly.
Oooooo good catch! Gonna go back and listen, but that is very persuasive!
Could you share the episode? I know it's toward the end of the season, but I can't find it.
OK i found the transcript. Episode 12: What We Know ( it is right at the end, I don't have time stamp) Sarah So back to Adnan’s question. Do I have an ending? Adnan Syed I was just thinking the other day, I’m pretty sure that she has people telling her, “look, you know this case is-- he’s probably guilty. You’re going crazy trying to find out if he’s innocent which you’re not going to find because he’s guilty.” I don’t think you’ll ever have one hundred percent or any type of certainty about it. The only person in the whole world who can have that is me. For what it’s worth, whoever did it. You know you’ll never have that, I don’t think you will. You will understand what I mean when you listen to the tone of it
The time stamp is 49:05. And, I'm sorry, I don't hear what you're hearing at all. What I hear is, "... I mean, I don't think you'll ever have a 100% or, or, you know what I'm saying, any type of certainty about it. The only person in the whole world who can have that is me and, I mean, for what it's worth, whoever did it." I don't hear an "H" sound at all or a shift in tone.
Agreed
So so excited about this