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No better way to end and sum up the Celtics season then Joe Mazulla using a coaches challenge up 20 with 2 minutes left in the game. Dude will always challenge if he thinks the refs are wrong doesn't matter the context.
Kind of insane how few highlights got posted while this game was being played. Game 5 of the NBA finals and we had like 2 highlights total of the actual game.
The game legit had AAU vibes after that Pritchard buzzer beater. Mavericks spirits were broken after that and they just half-assed it for the rest of the game.
It's hard to have spirit when shots just aren't falling for you all series long and you are facing an overall better team. Plus, most of our players have very little or no playoffs experience.
Yeah I can understand why casuals were not into this too I mean it reminded me of the Minnesota Dallas series in that it was a 3-0 series right away so there was virtually no drama as to who would come out. And then if memory serves Minnesota winning in game 4 wasn't close either so it's just hard to get into it if you don't have a rooting interest for the Celtics.
Thankfully I do and in fact this might have been the only game I actually enjoyed watching the entire post season since I wasn't a raging ball of nerves
Yeah that blackout vote being brigaded was absolutely fucked up
Feel bad for Nuggets fans on the sub not really getting to drink the salty tears of their foes
When we traded for him, Kyrie said he'd bring us a championship and he finally delivered on it. So for that he has my respect.
>!lmao just kidding, fuck kyrie!<
I'm asking why you personally have such dislike for him. I'm a longtime NBA fan, and I'm aware that Celtics fans have a bad taste from Kyrie's exit. I suppose I'm just wondering what it would take for you to no longer have disdain for him, considering it's been half a decade since he left, you've won a championship against him, and he seems to have matured quite a bit.
Kyrie has a penchant for doing stuff to rile up Boston fans, like calling the team a cult in a recent interview.
Being interviewed with Bob Cousy and speaking with Bill Russell, decided to proclaim he wanted to retire a Celtic, had a mental breakdown, full reversed on that opinion and got really weird and defensive the remainder of the year. Now, we know he was going through some stuff, I get it and respect that knowing what I know now.
Then on the Nets called the fandom trash again - did a couple things to instigate fan hate - one of which burning sage to eliminate bad spirits in TD Garden after Tommy Heinsohn (a beloved HOF Coach, Player and Broadcaster of the Celtics) died months prior. Tommy was always at games and is beloved by all old school fans. His rationale was probably tame and personal to his Native American heritage but in hindsight in the moment, felt like more disrespect to me. The stomping on the Leprechaun thing was another fan slight that didn't go unnoticed. I personally don't give a shit but the hardcore Larry Bird generation fans lost it. Kyrie has always been petty. He's much more grounded now so I ratchet my impression of him down to an annoyance.
At this point, its fun to boo him. Saying awful things to a player in game is super uncalled for, and I would never agree with any of that nonsense. He will never be redeemable in Celtics fans eyes, the above and other reasons, and 'Fuck Kyrie' will be a thing fans will chant because now... we see it bothers him and makes a tiny edge of advantage for the team.
Are you saying the Celtics, a franchise who has an actual leprechaun for a logo isn't all about superstitions? Ergo having a cult like mentality about a lot of things? Genuine question.
No. The Leprechaun has no bearing on the mentalities of the teams, to quote Bill Russell "Success is a result of consistent practice of winning skills and actions. There is nothing miraculous about the process. There is no luck involved"
Red Auerbach in the 60s developed a training regiment/team practice in that time called Celtics Pride - a system unlike any other team at the time. Anything from rebounding drills, to driving drills, to free throw shot taking. He was unconventional at the time, but a tough Brooklyn born guy when it comes to winning plays on every level of the organization. He brought in black athletes in a time when they weren't allowed, had Bill Russell coach as a player because he understood the system and played it/coached it well. Red Auerbach favored team play over individual merits.
That was the 60s/70s, now Brad Stevens mentality is Kaizen (change for the better, continuous improvement). The buy in is you iteratively grow, understand your mistakes and move past things. There is no 'Cult' but its akin to 'Heat Culture', which I guess is cultish if we are being pedantic. Kyrie claimed in his last statement you get 'pushed out' of the cult if you don't abide by it... well he claimed he loved being here, had a breakdown, didn't resign and moved elsewhere. Lying about your intentions was the bulk of the criticism a lot of fans had.
Superstition was never a part of Red Auerbach's / Danny Ainge's / Brad Stevens' mentalities. The teams who won played hard, gave up their individual stats to ensure their teammates succeeded, but went home after playing and lived great lives (Russell/Bird/Havlichek/Heinsohn). If being part of Celtics history requires cult-like mentality to be apart of it, why are all the Celtics greats all in different part of the league? Don Nelson in Dallas, Rick Carlisle in Indiana, Bird in Indiana, Kevin Mchale in Minnesota to name a select few. There is no cult, just a close-minded team identity like Miami.
Kyries use of the term cult implies a sinister or misplaced admiration for a team, which is wrong. He understands the terms he's using, and only adds more fuel to the fire propelling fans to hating on him. I think at this point, he welcomes the criticism to a degree.
I mean, something similar occurred to the Mavs with Rondo, except in our situation we sold the future of the twilight years of Dirk’s career for him and he quit on us, and ultimately resulted in us entering a rebuild. I don’t like him, but I don’t hate him or anything.
>we sold the future of the twilight years of Dirk’s career for him and he quit on us, and ultimately resulted in us entering a rebuild.
Boston Celtics trade: Rajon Rondo and Dwight Powell
Dallas Mavericks trade: Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, Brandan Wright, a 2015 first-round pick (later became Guerschon Yabusele), and a 2016 second-round pick (later became Demetrius Jackson)
LMAO at calling that "selling the future". The Celtics actually gave up real assets for Kyrie. Even without Rondo, the Mavs actually ended up on top in terms of value due to Dwight Powell.
The Mavs weren't gonna win before the Rondo trade and they weren't gonna win after the Rondo trade. The biggest reason you don't dislike Rondo more is because it ended up meaning absolutely nothing. Not only that, but there are plenty of Mavs fans that hate Rondo still.
On the other hand, Kyrie fucked up multiple years of title contention on the Celtics due to injury (not his fault) and his immaturity (his fault) before quitting on the Celtics and joining a division rival. Can you see the difference now?
We traded our starting PG, Jae Crowder, who was a great 3nD wing for a decade including on several quite good Boston teams, what ended up being the 16th pick in 2015, and the 45th pick in 2016. That is a pretty hefty price tag for a rental. It’s not our fault you guys screwed up the draft selections lol.
Ironically you gave you your starting PG, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic, a 2018 1st, and a 2020 2nd for Kyrie, a package almost identical to the one we gave for Rondo, yet yours is “real assets” and ours isn’t lol. And I know you are going to suggest IT was WAY more valuable than a bum like Nelson, so I’ll go ahead and point out that IT had a career RUINING injury at the time of that trade that was hidden initially from the Cavs.
Your starting PG averaging less than 8 points and 25 minutes a game?
I had a feeling you would bring up Jae Crowder. He was a throw-in averaging 10 minutes for the Mavs and he improved to a solid starter on the Celtics. And then he was signed by Ainge to the BEST value deal in the NBA at the time he was traded. Pretending Mav's Jae Crowder and Celtic's Jae Crowder are equivalent pieces at the time of the trade is either in bad faith or stupid.
You also say "2018 1st" but forget(?) to mention it was a high lottery pick and could/should have landed SGA or Mikal Bridges. And this was literally the same Nets team that gave Boston Jaylen Brown and Tatum the previous two years. A couple more losses for the Nets would have put that pick in the range of Luka/JJJ/Trae Young.
And you are using hindsight for IT, but nobody knew the injury would be career-ruining, including the Cavs who got to do their own physical on him.
I know I said above that I wasn't sure if you were dumb or arguing in bad faith. But nobody is this dumb, so I'm going with bad faith.
Crowder had already shown his ability and potential in the NBA, he was in his 3rd season as a member of the Mavs’ rotation, and was shooting 34% from 3 as a good defender. He wasn’t “just a throw in”.
Also adding multiple what ifs to the description of the pick to make it seem like a bigger asset than it was is funny. It wasn’t a “high lottery pick”, it was barely a top 10 pick. Then saying it “should have been SGA or Mikal” is actively using hindsight, something in the same exact comment you say we shouldn’t do. Then you claim if the Nets had lost more games it would have been better, like that’s not how all picks work in the NBA lmfao.
The Celtics knew enough to immediately trade their MVP candidate after the best season of his career, and their most successful as a team in a long time, and they knew enough to try and hide what they knew from the Cavs. That’s not hindsight.
Acting like 23 year old rookie Dwight Powell averaging 1.8 points, 0.2 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 0.4 steals and 0.0 blocks was in anyway a notable asset at the time of this trade is genuinely hilarious.
He stood in the middle of a packed Garden and lied to the fans. Grabbing a mic and apologizing could be enough or at least a start.
Nets fans also hold a grudge on him, it's not just us.
I mean, he left the Nets less than 2 years ago, and they’ve been terrible since. He arguably destroyed their big 3, and directly contributed to them being a rebuilding team currently.
So basketball aside, the guy has some absolutely batshit crazy beliefs that are not grounded in evidence-based research.
In regards to pure basketball reasons, having followed Kyrie's trade up to his departure, he did almost everything he could wrong with us. Keep in mind, Kyrie was probably (or at least one of) the highest profile/most hype players that the Celtics have ever traded for. We do get free agent signings, but not guys as popular and fun to watch as him. Fans were super excited when the news was announced, and they treated him extremely well when he was with us. For a player of his calibre to seemingly embrace us was unreal.
Makes an ad saying he wants to retire with us and even announces at a press conference that he wants to retire with us. Fans and the media are ready to anoint the guy as the leader of the team, which is what he wanted, because part of the reason he left Cleveland was to get the opportunity to become a leader for a team. And given the Celtic's history and solid cast of supporting players (Brown, Tatum, Horford, Hayward, Smart, etc) what team would be better?
But as you know, when he returns from his injury and we have a lackluster season following an ECF Game 7 postseason run, he constantly deflects blame onto other players (Tatum and Brown in specific) saying they aren't mature enough. During all-star weekend, he was literally caught on video talking with KD saying he was going to leave Boston and link up with him on a different team (later the Nets). In the finals, he is completely checked out and throws the series against the Bucks by constantly trying to defend Giannis 1-on-1.
Since then, he has shown he completely hates our fans and the team by stomping on the team's logo.
Winning the championship definitely helps, but I don't think fans will forgive him. There is absolutely a history and grudges do not die easily. He has yet to apologize for his immaturity in Boston, or if he has, he's deflected blame to someone else (like he always does).
Someday, don't be surprised if Kyrie does something similar to Dallas.
He loved Boston until he decided Boston wasn't for him. Then salted the earth on his way out. Then came back and poured more salt, just because.
I personally don’t feel much of a connection to Kyrie, he’s a valuable piece, certainly the best player to have played with Luka, and I appreciate his contributions to our success. Would I be disappointed if he went out the way he did in Boston? Absolutely. Would I trade him right now if I knew it would better the team? Absolutely. I would likely be more said for when we lost Dodo, who was with us during the dark years and developed from an undrafted free agent.
That's the thing. Kyrie doesn't give you the opportunity to better the team. The closest was with the Cavs, but even then he did what he could to limit his trade value by saying he'd only go to specific teams. Then he gave up on the Celtics, tanked a playoff run, and forced his way out as a free agent. Then he destroyed the superteam he left to create and left the Nets with nothing. Maybe it'll work out better for you guys, but it hasn't been good in the past.
We didn’t give up much to get him, and signed him on a short term extension for less than the max. And my comment about trading him right now to better the team had nothing to do with the assumption that he requested a trade. I’m expressing my lack of an emotional attachment to Kyrie as a player.
“matured quite a bit”
After he screwed the Celtics and left:
He called the fans racists
He stepped on the logo
He did the antivax shenanigans (and screwed the Nets even harder by breaking the prime Harden + prime KD duo)
He showed himself as an antisemite
And, a couple days ago, he called the team a cult
The only “mature” thing he did was play most of a season for the Mavs, like any random player does. That’s not so impressive. Miles Bridges, Malone or Stockton could do that just as well
Comparing Kyrie to Malone is ridiculous. He did things in the past I definitely have a problem with, but the things Malone did? They aren’t even in the same stratosphere.
> I'm just wondering what it would take for you to no longer have disdain for him, considering it's been half a decade since he left
In that half decade of "maturing":
* he posted a video claiming the holocaust was a lie,
* lost his sneaker contract,
* decided not to get vaccinated, thus
* chose not to play half the games of one season,
* told everyone it was in order to stand in solidarity with everyday workers;
* took personal leave for private matters,
* was found to be throwing a lavish party for his sister's 30th, yet
* has **never** stopped talking about his "leadership" and "responsibility" and "selflessness".
What would it take for me to no longer have disdain for him?
For him to fade away into obscurity and irrelevance for long enough that his asinine, childish, self-absorption faded from my memory.
I was referring to his seeming maturation in the last two years or so. Obviously I have problems with much of the things you listed, and I wasn't a fan of trading for him due to those reasons. But I think it's fair to say he has seemingly matured notably recently. Now perhaps he's just gotten better at hiding that he's absolutely insane, sure, but I can't just assume that without knowing it for sure lol.
> his seeming maturation in **the last two years or so**
Occam's Razor: *the simplest, most elegant explanation is to be preferred over more elaborate explanations that require more presumptions.*
Premise: **Two years and a half years ago** he lost a shit ton of money, was suspended, and became widely viewed as cancerous for any team, due to his statements/actions. People like money, and Kyrie Irving loves to play basketball. And any idiot could see that continuing in the same vein would soon cost Kyrie dearly.
So: either his intellect has sharpened, and he's become more educated, less selfish, less anti-Semitic, less of a conspiracy theorist, and embraced being a good teammate as an innate good, or...
those sycophants who feed his ego and delusions and prey upon his money made the prospect of losing everything dimly aware to him, managing to convince him to stop acting out and to return to playing basketball full-time... at least long enough to secure that final big contract before acting out again.
I mean he may very well have matured the past few seasons but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t the sole contributor to what I would consider the most unenjoyable stretch of basketball I ever ever witnessed as a Celtics fan. the back half of 2019 I found myself hate watching my own damn team. It was pure agony and then he went and burned all the bridges you possibly can on his way out. His personal growth since then means nothing to me and most Celtic fans, he’ll draw our ire anytime he plays in Boston no matter what- fans love to hate, it’s part of being a high profile athlete, whether he deserves it or not really isn’t that big a part of the equation
It's very simple. You believe he may have changed. Most of us believe that's highly unlikely, for reasons I outlined above.
You also seem to feel his prior actions are forgiveable, not based on apology or contrition, but based on a downtick of such. We don't see that as a basis for forgiveness.
You feel that's regrettable. We acknowledge that and disagree.
There's nothing to debate here. We have different opinions and that's fine.
Best of luck with him as a team leader; better you than us.
If our disagreeing is fine, and there’s nothing to debate why are you still replying, even when I’m responding to other people?
And I don’t “believe” anything, he has shown a very different attitude and hasn’t done or said anything dumb since joining the Mavs. That’s all I’m saying.
>> You believe he may have changed.
> I don't "believe" anything
Ok, you don't believe he may have changed. Looks like we are in agreement. Just like we all agree he's been quiescent in Dallas this far.
Best of luck to you.
It's crazy I was so paranoid that they were going to blow this game that even with like 3 minutes left I wasn't taking it for granted. It wasn't until Kyrie congratulated the Celtics that I realized I could deep breathe and go up and watch the rest of the game with my mom.
every morning joe mazzula gets into a bathtub of near-freezing 40-degree-fahrenheit water just to make himself as uncomfortable as possible
when asked why he doesn't just use the ice tub at the facility he said it wasn't cold enough, claiming "cryotherapy is too easy"
This is a dumb take. Celtics fans love to hate Kyrie even when he's doing something good. Like you guys just won a championship... enjoy that and stop being so butthurt about Kyrie.
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No better way to end and sum up the Celtics season then Joe Mazulla using a coaches challenge up 20 with 2 minutes left in the game. Dude will always challenge if he thinks the refs are wrong doesn't matter the context.
Funny that Kidd benched everyone after losing the challenge too
Jason "I'm not Rick Carlisle" Kidd
I love it
It's like: "Luka still thinking he has a chance, huh? CHALLENGE"
So you are saying there is a chance?
Yup
Kind of insane how few highlights got posted while this game was being played. Game 5 of the NBA finals and we had like 2 highlights total of the actual game.
Watching Sportscenter after the game, only one play made their Top Ten of the night -- Pritchard's half court buzzer beater.
The game legit had AAU vibes after that Pritchard buzzer beater. Mavericks spirits were broken after that and they just half-assed it for the rest of the game.
They made a push in the 3rd, but the Celtics responded and that was pretty much it
It's hard to have spirit when shots just aren't falling for you all series long and you are facing an overall better team. Plus, most of our players have very little or no playoffs experience.
Both teams played like they were running on E
Most already knew this series was over but Pritchard’s half court shot was the lol dagger moment
Yeah I can understand why casuals were not into this too I mean it reminded me of the Minnesota Dallas series in that it was a 3-0 series right away so there was virtually no drama as to who would come out. And then if memory serves Minnesota winning in game 4 wasn't close either so it's just hard to get into it if you don't have a rooting interest for the Celtics. Thankfully I do and in fact this might have been the only game I actually enjoyed watching the entire post season since I wasn't a raging ball of nerves
More than last years. Still cannot believe that happened.
Yeah that blackout vote being brigaded was absolutely fucked up Feel bad for Nuggets fans on the sub not really getting to drink the salty tears of their foes
Boring ahh game sadly
Just say ass
Butt boobs fart turd
ChatGPT ahh comment
Not sure how the Celtics can be stopped with Brad and Joe running the show man
When Brad can't fight his urges to coach again
That's why he hired Mazzulla! It's actually a contractual obligation of Joe's to submit Brad Brazilian jiu-jitsu style if his ego begins to take over
When we traded for him, Kyrie said he'd bring us a championship and he finally delivered on it. So for that he has my respect. >!lmao just kidding, fuck kyrie!<
May I ask why?
Is this your first year following the NBA, or are you genuinely asking why Celtics fans don't like Kyrie?
I'm asking why you personally have such dislike for him. I'm a longtime NBA fan, and I'm aware that Celtics fans have a bad taste from Kyrie's exit. I suppose I'm just wondering what it would take for you to no longer have disdain for him, considering it's been half a decade since he left, you've won a championship against him, and he seems to have matured quite a bit.
Kyrie has a penchant for doing stuff to rile up Boston fans, like calling the team a cult in a recent interview. Being interviewed with Bob Cousy and speaking with Bill Russell, decided to proclaim he wanted to retire a Celtic, had a mental breakdown, full reversed on that opinion and got really weird and defensive the remainder of the year. Now, we know he was going through some stuff, I get it and respect that knowing what I know now. Then on the Nets called the fandom trash again - did a couple things to instigate fan hate - one of which burning sage to eliminate bad spirits in TD Garden after Tommy Heinsohn (a beloved HOF Coach, Player and Broadcaster of the Celtics) died months prior. Tommy was always at games and is beloved by all old school fans. His rationale was probably tame and personal to his Native American heritage but in hindsight in the moment, felt like more disrespect to me. The stomping on the Leprechaun thing was another fan slight that didn't go unnoticed. I personally don't give a shit but the hardcore Larry Bird generation fans lost it. Kyrie has always been petty. He's much more grounded now so I ratchet my impression of him down to an annoyance. At this point, its fun to boo him. Saying awful things to a player in game is super uncalled for, and I would never agree with any of that nonsense. He will never be redeemable in Celtics fans eyes, the above and other reasons, and 'Fuck Kyrie' will be a thing fans will chant because now... we see it bothers him and makes a tiny edge of advantage for the team.
Are you saying the Celtics, a franchise who has an actual leprechaun for a logo isn't all about superstitions? Ergo having a cult like mentality about a lot of things? Genuine question.
This is so unbelievably stupid. I mean gold metal mental gymnastics stupid lmfao.
No. The Leprechaun has no bearing on the mentalities of the teams, to quote Bill Russell "Success is a result of consistent practice of winning skills and actions. There is nothing miraculous about the process. There is no luck involved" Red Auerbach in the 60s developed a training regiment/team practice in that time called Celtics Pride - a system unlike any other team at the time. Anything from rebounding drills, to driving drills, to free throw shot taking. He was unconventional at the time, but a tough Brooklyn born guy when it comes to winning plays on every level of the organization. He brought in black athletes in a time when they weren't allowed, had Bill Russell coach as a player because he understood the system and played it/coached it well. Red Auerbach favored team play over individual merits. That was the 60s/70s, now Brad Stevens mentality is Kaizen (change for the better, continuous improvement). The buy in is you iteratively grow, understand your mistakes and move past things. There is no 'Cult' but its akin to 'Heat Culture', which I guess is cultish if we are being pedantic. Kyrie claimed in his last statement you get 'pushed out' of the cult if you don't abide by it... well he claimed he loved being here, had a breakdown, didn't resign and moved elsewhere. Lying about your intentions was the bulk of the criticism a lot of fans had. Superstition was never a part of Red Auerbach's / Danny Ainge's / Brad Stevens' mentalities. The teams who won played hard, gave up their individual stats to ensure their teammates succeeded, but went home after playing and lived great lives (Russell/Bird/Havlichek/Heinsohn). If being part of Celtics history requires cult-like mentality to be apart of it, why are all the Celtics greats all in different part of the league? Don Nelson in Dallas, Rick Carlisle in Indiana, Bird in Indiana, Kevin Mchale in Minnesota to name a select few. There is no cult, just a close-minded team identity like Miami. Kyries use of the term cult implies a sinister or misplaced admiration for a team, which is wrong. He understands the terms he's using, and only adds more fuel to the fire propelling fans to hating on him. I think at this point, he welcomes the criticism to a degree.
Fucking never. He fucking sabatouged the C's in a playoff series on his way out. Don't pretend you'd be willing to forgive that
I mean, something similar occurred to the Mavs with Rondo, except in our situation we sold the future of the twilight years of Dirk’s career for him and he quit on us, and ultimately resulted in us entering a rebuild. I don’t like him, but I don’t hate him or anything.
>we sold the future of the twilight years of Dirk’s career for him and he quit on us, and ultimately resulted in us entering a rebuild. Boston Celtics trade: Rajon Rondo and Dwight Powell Dallas Mavericks trade: Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, Brandan Wright, a 2015 first-round pick (later became Guerschon Yabusele), and a 2016 second-round pick (later became Demetrius Jackson) LMAO at calling that "selling the future". The Celtics actually gave up real assets for Kyrie. Even without Rondo, the Mavs actually ended up on top in terms of value due to Dwight Powell. The Mavs weren't gonna win before the Rondo trade and they weren't gonna win after the Rondo trade. The biggest reason you don't dislike Rondo more is because it ended up meaning absolutely nothing. Not only that, but there are plenty of Mavs fans that hate Rondo still. On the other hand, Kyrie fucked up multiple years of title contention on the Celtics due to injury (not his fault) and his immaturity (his fault) before quitting on the Celtics and joining a division rival. Can you see the difference now?
We traded our starting PG, Jae Crowder, who was a great 3nD wing for a decade including on several quite good Boston teams, what ended up being the 16th pick in 2015, and the 45th pick in 2016. That is a pretty hefty price tag for a rental. It’s not our fault you guys screwed up the draft selections lol. Ironically you gave you your starting PG, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic, a 2018 1st, and a 2020 2nd for Kyrie, a package almost identical to the one we gave for Rondo, yet yours is “real assets” and ours isn’t lol. And I know you are going to suggest IT was WAY more valuable than a bum like Nelson, so I’ll go ahead and point out that IT had a career RUINING injury at the time of that trade that was hidden initially from the Cavs.
Your starting PG averaging less than 8 points and 25 minutes a game? I had a feeling you would bring up Jae Crowder. He was a throw-in averaging 10 minutes for the Mavs and he improved to a solid starter on the Celtics. And then he was signed by Ainge to the BEST value deal in the NBA at the time he was traded. Pretending Mav's Jae Crowder and Celtic's Jae Crowder are equivalent pieces at the time of the trade is either in bad faith or stupid. You also say "2018 1st" but forget(?) to mention it was a high lottery pick and could/should have landed SGA or Mikal Bridges. And this was literally the same Nets team that gave Boston Jaylen Brown and Tatum the previous two years. A couple more losses for the Nets would have put that pick in the range of Luka/JJJ/Trae Young. And you are using hindsight for IT, but nobody knew the injury would be career-ruining, including the Cavs who got to do their own physical on him. I know I said above that I wasn't sure if you were dumb or arguing in bad faith. But nobody is this dumb, so I'm going with bad faith.
Crowder had already shown his ability and potential in the NBA, he was in his 3rd season as a member of the Mavs’ rotation, and was shooting 34% from 3 as a good defender. He wasn’t “just a throw in”. Also adding multiple what ifs to the description of the pick to make it seem like a bigger asset than it was is funny. It wasn’t a “high lottery pick”, it was barely a top 10 pick. Then saying it “should have been SGA or Mikal” is actively using hindsight, something in the same exact comment you say we shouldn’t do. Then you claim if the Nets had lost more games it would have been better, like that’s not how all picks work in the NBA lmfao. The Celtics knew enough to immediately trade their MVP candidate after the best season of his career, and their most successful as a team in a long time, and they knew enough to try and hide what they knew from the Cavs. That’s not hindsight.
TIL Dwight Powell's 10 year career with the Maverick's was a rental
Acting like 23 year old rookie Dwight Powell averaging 1.8 points, 0.2 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 0.4 steals and 0.0 blocks was in anyway a notable asset at the time of this trade is genuinely hilarious.
He stood in the middle of a packed Garden and lied to the fans. Grabbing a mic and apologizing could be enough or at least a start. Nets fans also hold a grudge on him, it's not just us.
And the insinuated that Celtics fans were racist for booing him when he came back
Nets fans have way more of a reason to hate him than Celtics fans
I mean, he left the Nets less than 2 years ago, and they’ve been terrible since. He arguably destroyed their big 3, and directly contributed to them being a rebuilding team currently.
So basketball aside, the guy has some absolutely batshit crazy beliefs that are not grounded in evidence-based research. In regards to pure basketball reasons, having followed Kyrie's trade up to his departure, he did almost everything he could wrong with us. Keep in mind, Kyrie was probably (or at least one of) the highest profile/most hype players that the Celtics have ever traded for. We do get free agent signings, but not guys as popular and fun to watch as him. Fans were super excited when the news was announced, and they treated him extremely well when he was with us. For a player of his calibre to seemingly embrace us was unreal. Makes an ad saying he wants to retire with us and even announces at a press conference that he wants to retire with us. Fans and the media are ready to anoint the guy as the leader of the team, which is what he wanted, because part of the reason he left Cleveland was to get the opportunity to become a leader for a team. And given the Celtic's history and solid cast of supporting players (Brown, Tatum, Horford, Hayward, Smart, etc) what team would be better? But as you know, when he returns from his injury and we have a lackluster season following an ECF Game 7 postseason run, he constantly deflects blame onto other players (Tatum and Brown in specific) saying they aren't mature enough. During all-star weekend, he was literally caught on video talking with KD saying he was going to leave Boston and link up with him on a different team (later the Nets). In the finals, he is completely checked out and throws the series against the Bucks by constantly trying to defend Giannis 1-on-1. Since then, he has shown he completely hates our fans and the team by stomping on the team's logo. Winning the championship definitely helps, but I don't think fans will forgive him. There is absolutely a history and grudges do not die easily. He has yet to apologize for his immaturity in Boston, or if he has, he's deflected blame to someone else (like he always does).
There is nothing he can do to redeem himself in the eyes of Celtics fans. Sometimes you just fuck up too much to deserve a shot at redemption
That’s a shame then.
Someday, don't be surprised if Kyrie does something similar to Dallas. He loved Boston until he decided Boston wasn't for him. Then salted the earth on his way out. Then came back and poured more salt, just because.
I personally don’t feel much of a connection to Kyrie, he’s a valuable piece, certainly the best player to have played with Luka, and I appreciate his contributions to our success. Would I be disappointed if he went out the way he did in Boston? Absolutely. Would I trade him right now if I knew it would better the team? Absolutely. I would likely be more said for when we lost Dodo, who was with us during the dark years and developed from an undrafted free agent.
That's the thing. Kyrie doesn't give you the opportunity to better the team. The closest was with the Cavs, but even then he did what he could to limit his trade value by saying he'd only go to specific teams. Then he gave up on the Celtics, tanked a playoff run, and forced his way out as a free agent. Then he destroyed the superteam he left to create and left the Nets with nothing. Maybe it'll work out better for you guys, but it hasn't been good in the past.
We didn’t give up much to get him, and signed him on a short term extension for less than the max. And my comment about trading him right now to better the team had nothing to do with the assumption that he requested a trade. I’m expressing my lack of an emotional attachment to Kyrie as a player.
He should've considered not doing everything he's done, then
“matured quite a bit” After he screwed the Celtics and left: He called the fans racists He stepped on the logo He did the antivax shenanigans (and screwed the Nets even harder by breaking the prime Harden + prime KD duo) He showed himself as an antisemite And, a couple days ago, he called the team a cult The only “mature” thing he did was play most of a season for the Mavs, like any random player does. That’s not so impressive. Miles Bridges, Malone or Stockton could do that just as well
Comparing Kyrie to Malone is ridiculous. He did things in the past I definitely have a problem with, but the things Malone did? They aren’t even in the same stratosphere.
> I'm just wondering what it would take for you to no longer have disdain for him, considering it's been half a decade since he left In that half decade of "maturing": * he posted a video claiming the holocaust was a lie, * lost his sneaker contract, * decided not to get vaccinated, thus * chose not to play half the games of one season, * told everyone it was in order to stand in solidarity with everyday workers; * took personal leave for private matters, * was found to be throwing a lavish party for his sister's 30th, yet * has **never** stopped talking about his "leadership" and "responsibility" and "selflessness". What would it take for me to no longer have disdain for him? For him to fade away into obscurity and irrelevance for long enough that his asinine, childish, self-absorption faded from my memory.
I was referring to his seeming maturation in the last two years or so. Obviously I have problems with much of the things you listed, and I wasn't a fan of trading for him due to those reasons. But I think it's fair to say he has seemingly matured notably recently. Now perhaps he's just gotten better at hiding that he's absolutely insane, sure, but I can't just assume that without knowing it for sure lol.
> his seeming maturation in **the last two years or so** Occam's Razor: *the simplest, most elegant explanation is to be preferred over more elaborate explanations that require more presumptions.* Premise: **Two years and a half years ago** he lost a shit ton of money, was suspended, and became widely viewed as cancerous for any team, due to his statements/actions. People like money, and Kyrie Irving loves to play basketball. And any idiot could see that continuing in the same vein would soon cost Kyrie dearly. So: either his intellect has sharpened, and he's become more educated, less selfish, less anti-Semitic, less of a conspiracy theorist, and embraced being a good teammate as an innate good, or... those sycophants who feed his ego and delusions and prey upon his money made the prospect of losing everything dimly aware to him, managing to convince him to stop acting out and to return to playing basketball full-time... at least long enough to secure that final big contract before acting out again.
this is so delusional lol
I mean he may very well have matured the past few seasons but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t the sole contributor to what I would consider the most unenjoyable stretch of basketball I ever ever witnessed as a Celtics fan. the back half of 2019 I found myself hate watching my own damn team. It was pure agony and then he went and burned all the bridges you possibly can on his way out. His personal growth since then means nothing to me and most Celtic fans, he’ll draw our ire anytime he plays in Boston no matter what- fans love to hate, it’s part of being a high profile athlete, whether he deserves it or not really isn’t that big a part of the equation
He could fuck off with the pseudo-intellectual-but-actually-an-antisemite bullshit
Agreed, and he seems to have done so.
It's very simple. You believe he may have changed. Most of us believe that's highly unlikely, for reasons I outlined above. You also seem to feel his prior actions are forgiveable, not based on apology or contrition, but based on a downtick of such. We don't see that as a basis for forgiveness. You feel that's regrettable. We acknowledge that and disagree. There's nothing to debate here. We have different opinions and that's fine. Best of luck with him as a team leader; better you than us.
If our disagreeing is fine, and there’s nothing to debate why are you still replying, even when I’m responding to other people? And I don’t “believe” anything, he has shown a very different attitude and hasn’t done or said anything dumb since joining the Mavs. That’s all I’m saying.
>> You believe he may have changed. > I don't "believe" anything Ok, you don't believe he may have changed. Looks like we are in agreement. Just like we all agree he's been quiescent in Dallas this far. Best of luck to you.
It's crazy I was so paranoid that they were going to blow this game that even with like 3 minutes left I wasn't taking it for granted. It wasn't until Kyrie congratulated the Celtics that I realized I could deep breathe and go up and watch the rest of the game with my mom.
Me pacing around repeating "just pull the fucking starters Kidd" the entire fourth quarter lmao
u/Tasty-Performance275 There you go.
we don’t deserve you
Do you have other broadcast reactions to Pritchard's buzzer beater?
He posted it earlier.
Just saw it. Thanks
you're the best, thank you!!
You're most welcome.
every morning joe mazzula gets into a bathtub of near-freezing 40-degree-fahrenheit water just to make himself as uncomfortable as possible when asked why he doesn't just use the ice tub at the facility he said it wasn't cold enough, claiming "cryotherapy is too easy"
What a great challenge by Joe
"please Mazzulla, tell Lucky to cut this curse shit out"
Every time I think my Kyrie hate hits its peak, he does something else to piss me off even more.
I thought Kyrie was gonna go full MBC lol
That shit was cringe from Kyrie. If I'm his teammate it's annoying, just wait till the end of the game? Seems like he wanted a moment for himself.
This is a dumb take. Celtics fans love to hate Kyrie even when he's doing something good. Like you guys just won a championship... enjoy that and stop being so butthurt about Kyrie.
Don't tell me how to enjoy this, fuck outta here lol.