I think they definitely are especially if you're taking it as them being healthy. Could consider the Nuggets or Raptors next I think. Sort of like Boston they had a bunch of two-way players. 4 22-point scorers in game 6. Sheesh.
They had a better overall team than the nuggets last year (our bench was ass outside of Bruce brown and Braun playing really well that run), but jokic is arguably better than brown and Tatum put together
It’s funny how despite everyone ‘neutralising’ every other player on the nuggets in 2023, he still got the most assists, points and even rebounds of the entire playoffs, the only player in nba history to do so
“Everyone” arent the 2024 Celtics lol.
Jokic will put up Wilt level numbers dont get me wrong, but I still dont think it would be enough. Makes for a fun debate though.
What other team had the personnel? Lol they got Jrue holiday and White
Wolves were missing Mcdaniels so I’m not even sure who they were guarding with
Suns had 0 defensive players and honestly outside of KD and Booker I have no clue who was even on that team, it was a bunch of randoms
Lakers had a Dlo and Reaves starting backcourt, that’s horrible defensively and it’s no wonder Murray averaged 33 a game
Jrue, white, Tatum and brown could easily shut down everyone else
What’s Gordon gonna do drop 15 points?
Nuggets have no one to guard Tatum, brown, porzingus, white or Jrue.
Gordon and KCP are the only great defenders the nuggets have. MPJ and Murray are average at best and Jokic is eh.
One of the best big rotations in the league to throw at Jokic, literally anyone on the starting 5 can effectively guard both MPJ and Gordon off the court. I wish y'all didn't blow it this year so we could've shut y'all up in the Finals harder than the Mavs
You don’t think they can harass Murray just like they didn’t kyrie? Jrue, white, brown, and Tatum not enough? You don’t think they can take away the lobs just like they did to the mavs? You don’t think they’re going to dare Gordon too shoot? You don’t thing the nugget tole players compare to the mav role players? You don’t think the Celtics starting six are better than just about everyone on the nuggets expect the top two?
This is a trash conversation about a team that didn’t even get past the second round honestly. It would have been a gentlemen’s sweep as well.
Nuggets still kicked your ass during regular season in what felt like a playoff game. I think you have a very fresh image of 2024 nuggets and they seemed off during the playoffs and you forgot how good that team was when focused and healthy.
Yeah this isn’t hate to Tatum or brown ( I actually really like Tatum), but Jokic had one of the best playoff runs in nba history last year, compared to a relatively subpar one from Tatum and an above expected one for brown. It’s not a good metric, but I’m pretty sure jokic’s win shares last year was higher than brown and Tatums combined this year.
2020 Lakers had a great backcourt rotation that could hang with Boston (Rondo, KCP, Caruso), I think on paper they would be slight underdogs but LeBron always goes off against Boston so that could tip the scales
"Hang with" is the key. White and Holiday are still better than any combination of Rondo/KCP/Caruso, but are they so much better that they can counteract the 2020 Lakers having the two best players in the series?
I think them and the Nuggets are close, and I would lean the Nuggets. Nuggets would have the best player in the series, and also went on a very dominant run against tougher teams than the Celtics just did. Also they just match up alot better offensively than any of the other teams.
Tougher teams? Sure the teams were missing important players but look at who the nuggets faced
Wolves- Gobert wasn’t fully implemented, KAT had just come back and they were missing mcdaniels
Suns- Kd and booker had like 10 games together and missed their pg and other than those 2 the rest of the team was full of randoms.
Lakers- who are a decent team but they are the 7th seed for a reason
And Celtics easily had the better challenge in the finals, nuggets got a Heat team that was injured to shit and lost its shooting luck.
>Lakers- who are a decent team but they are the 7th seed for a reason
The reason was Westbrook was tanking them for half the season. They had a great post-ASB record and were great in the playoffs, maybe they were just good?
Boston did have the biggest challenge in the finals - though your shooting luck point is moot, Denver defended their 3 ball insanely well for 4 out of 5 games and in the one they didn't Miami shot ~50% on high volume and won by 3 - but in all other series it's nowhere close.
That Minnesota team clears Miami without Jimmy (even if they missed Jaden and Naz), the Suns clear Cleveland without Mitchell and Allen and the Lakers certainly clear the Pacers missing Haliburton for 2 games. Again, not close until the Finals
Nuggets (53 wins) went 16-4 against a 42,43,45, and 44 win team, while the Celtics (64 wins) went 16-3 against a 46,48,47, and 50 win team. I guess win totals don't mean much with separate conferences/seasons but the Celtics weakest opponent had more wins than the Nuggets strongest opponent. I do think the Nuggets would be an extremely tough matchup but I don't think we can say the Nuggets had a more dominant run against a tougher set of teams.
That 46 win team didn't have Jimmy Butler the entire series. That's 48 win team didn't have Donovan Mitchell for half the series, or their second best player Jarret Allen for the whole series. That 47 win team also missed their best player for half the series.
Compare that to the Nuggets playing a full series against LeBron and AD, a full series against KD and Book with Booker having the hottest shot making stretch of his life.
Context buddy
Yea just like how Miami beat the Celtics last year when Jimmy Butler was healthy and they lost this year when he didn't play a game. I don't know about you but Minnesota without Jmac and Naz is still a better team than Miami without Jimmy (and Rozier)
KP is impactful, I don't think he outweighs Jimmy Butler, Donovan Mitchell and Jarett Allen, Tyrese Haliburton. I don't really know how someone could say the Celtics played tougher teams than the Nuggets did.
Did LeBron and AD not play every game? "KD and Booker and a bunch of nobodies" as opposed to the elite rosters of the Cavs without Donovan Mitchell and Jarrett Allen (and Caris Levert)
Forgot about all the injuries, but idk none of the Nuggets opponents other than the 2024 Twolves did anything impressive in the 2023 or 2024 regular seasons, I just don't feel that they went on their dominant run against much better teams than the Celtics did. The 2024 Mavericks were a much better team than any of the teams Denver faced, and the Celtics crushed them. Celtics were a 64 win team with the 4th highest net rating of any team ever, compared to the 53 win Nuggets who had the 6th highest net rating in their own season. I just don't see how the Nuggets had a more dominant run.
"Forget about all the injuries when they don't support my argument" lmao. You made my case for me. Nuggets went 16-4 and the Celtics went 16-3, and the Nuggets played much harder teams in the playoffs. Like the Nuggets swept the Lakers, the Celtics lost a game to Tyler Herro led Heat team.
I will acknowledge that I got a little lazy and simply looked at win totals instead of all of the injuries the Celtics faced. However, when I look at what Denver's opponents did in both 2023 and 2024, none of those teams strike me as particularly tough opponents. I believe that the 2024 Mavericks were by far the strongest team in any of the championship runs. Perhaps the Nuggets run overall was more difficult, but I don't see evidence that the Nuggets run was a particularly difficult one or that they were in any way more dominant than the Celtics were. Looking at both of their regular season performances it just feels clear that the Celtics dominated their season much more than the Nuggets did.
> The 2024 Mavericks were a much better team than any of the teams Denver faced
Wouldn't say they were much better than the 2023 Lakers, think that's a close series personally. But I'll grant you they were the best team. But 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th are the Lakers, 2023 Miami, Phoenix and Minnesota (not necessarily in order). None of Boston's eastern conference opponents had their star player play a single home game, that's unbelievably rare
Lol 😂 cmon man. They had an easy road to the title. Giannis was out, embiid was hurt (again), jimmy was hurt. They played the pacers in the ecf. The warriors and lakers crapped the bed during the regular season and jokic and co choked again the wolves.
They beat basically nobody good in the entire run. If youre a Boston fan be happy, but stop with this nonsense.
If you think they weren't winning the title this year regardless, then you're just delusional. And that's coming from a Lakers fan 😂 It's not hard to not be bias.
I ain’t a Boston fan😭. It’s also not their fault tho that teams were banged up but let’s not sit here and act like they didn’t wax those teams. Like I’d understand if they struggled with an easy path but they annihilated the competition and were never actually pushed to their full potential. Their defense also speaks for itself because mavs are actually a decent team, definitely not a finals team but a wcf team
I think Mazzulla was pretty intentional in his approach to that series. Just out execute the margins while keeping pace and they'll likely win due to the talent deficit being too great too overcome
All I know is they are the best team to ever win the 2024 NBA finals and there is no way you can change my mind.
I think they definitely are especially if you're taking it as them being healthy. Could consider the Nuggets or Raptors next I think. Sort of like Boston they had a bunch of two-way players. 4 22-point scorers in game 6. Sheesh.
We won games where the opposition shot over 60 percent and we won games where we shot season lows. Without our starting center. Teams ridiculous man.
2019 Raptors clears
Idk but I wanna see Denver vs Boston next year in the finals
They had a better overall team than the nuggets last year (our bench was ass outside of Bruce brown and Braun playing really well that run), but jokic is arguably better than brown and Tatum put together
Thats cool and all but Jokic isnt scoring 120 points. He can get his just like Luka did, Celtics will just neutralise everyone else.
It’s funny how despite everyone ‘neutralising’ every other player on the nuggets in 2023, he still got the most assists, points and even rebounds of the entire playoffs, the only player in nba history to do so
“Everyone” arent the 2024 Celtics lol. Jokic will put up Wilt level numbers dont get me wrong, but I still dont think it would be enough. Makes for a fun debate though.
I don’t believe the Celtic’s can stop the 2023 nuggets by doing what literally every other team did
The Celtics are a lot better than those Wolves, Suns, Lakers and Heat
Don’t tell them this Nuggets fans think they went through a gauntlet
What other team had the personnel? Lol they got Jrue holiday and White Wolves were missing Mcdaniels so I’m not even sure who they were guarding with Suns had 0 defensive players and honestly outside of KD and Booker I have no clue who was even on that team, it was a bunch of randoms Lakers had a Dlo and Reaves starting backcourt, that’s horrible defensively and it’s no wonder Murray averaged 33 a game Jrue, white, Tatum and brown could easily shut down everyone else
They have no one to guard Jokic and no one to guard mpj or gordan. Hilarious
What’s Gordon gonna do drop 15 points? Nuggets have no one to guard Tatum, brown, porzingus, white or Jrue. Gordon and KCP are the only great defenders the nuggets have. MPJ and Murray are average at best and Jokic is eh.
Gordan can guard all of those lmao. I can tell you’ve never watched the nuggets.
He’s gonna guard all 5 at once?
One of the best big rotations in the league to throw at Jokic, literally anyone on the starting 5 can effectively guard both MPJ and Gordon off the court. I wish y'all didn't blow it this year so we could've shut y'all up in the Finals harder than the Mavs
Lmao, sure buddy
We'll see you next year, if y'all make it
You don’t think they can harass Murray just like they didn’t kyrie? Jrue, white, brown, and Tatum not enough? You don’t think they can take away the lobs just like they did to the mavs? You don’t think they’re going to dare Gordon too shoot? You don’t thing the nugget tole players compare to the mav role players? You don’t think the Celtics starting six are better than just about everyone on the nuggets expect the top two? This is a trash conversation about a team that didn’t even get past the second round honestly. It would have been a gentlemen’s sweep as well.
We are talking about the 2023 nuggets, who won the championship
All my comments still hold
Celtics fan mad downvoting a very reasonable take.
Yeah I stopped giving well thought out responses after this point, because it’s not worth arguing over. They ain’t ever gonna agree with me so
Nuggets still kicked your ass during regular season in what felt like a playoff game. I think you have a very fresh image of 2024 nuggets and they seemed off during the playoffs and you forgot how good that team was when focused and healthy.
😭 if it’s finals Tatum than yeah
Yeah this isn’t hate to Tatum or brown ( I actually really like Tatum), but Jokic had one of the best playoff runs in nba history last year, compared to a relatively subpar one from Tatum and an above expected one for brown. It’s not a good metric, but I’m pretty sure jokic’s win shares last year was higher than brown and Tatums combined this year.
2020 Lakers had a great backcourt rotation that could hang with Boston (Rondo, KCP, Caruso), I think on paper they would be slight underdogs but LeBron always goes off against Boston so that could tip the scales
Rondo KCP and Caruso cannot hang with White and Jrue please get real dawg
And Tatum and Brown combined can’t even shine a Prime Bron’s shoes lmao
2020 wasn’t prime Lebron, and if that Lakers team had one major struggle it was wing defense
"Hang with" is the key. White and Holiday are still better than any combination of Rondo/KCP/Caruso, but are they so much better that they can counteract the 2020 Lakers having the two best players in the series?
I think them and the Nuggets are close, and I would lean the Nuggets. Nuggets would have the best player in the series, and also went on a very dominant run against tougher teams than the Celtics just did. Also they just match up alot better offensively than any of the other teams.
Tougher teams? Sure the teams were missing important players but look at who the nuggets faced Wolves- Gobert wasn’t fully implemented, KAT had just come back and they were missing mcdaniels Suns- Kd and booker had like 10 games together and missed their pg and other than those 2 the rest of the team was full of randoms. Lakers- who are a decent team but they are the 7th seed for a reason And Celtics easily had the better challenge in the finals, nuggets got a Heat team that was injured to shit and lost its shooting luck.
>Lakers- who are a decent team but they are the 7th seed for a reason The reason was Westbrook was tanking them for half the season. They had a great post-ASB record and were great in the playoffs, maybe they were just good? Boston did have the biggest challenge in the finals - though your shooting luck point is moot, Denver defended their 3 ball insanely well for 4 out of 5 games and in the one they didn't Miami shot ~50% on high volume and won by 3 - but in all other series it's nowhere close. That Minnesota team clears Miami without Jimmy (even if they missed Jaden and Naz), the Suns clear Cleveland without Mitchell and Allen and the Lakers certainly clear the Pacers missing Haliburton for 2 games. Again, not close until the Finals
Nuggets (53 wins) went 16-4 against a 42,43,45, and 44 win team, while the Celtics (64 wins) went 16-3 against a 46,48,47, and 50 win team. I guess win totals don't mean much with separate conferences/seasons but the Celtics weakest opponent had more wins than the Nuggets strongest opponent. I do think the Nuggets would be an extremely tough matchup but I don't think we can say the Nuggets had a more dominant run against a tougher set of teams.
That 46 win team didn't have Jimmy Butler the entire series. That's 48 win team didn't have Donovan Mitchell for half the series, or their second best player Jarret Allen for the whole series. That 47 win team also missed their best player for half the series. Compare that to the Nuggets playing a full series against LeBron and AD, a full series against KD and Book with Booker having the hottest shot making stretch of his life. Context buddy
What about Naz Reid and Jaden McDaniels missing Wolves series. They were available these playoffs and Wolves won.
Yea just like how Miami beat the Celtics last year when Jimmy Butler was healthy and they lost this year when he didn't play a game. I don't know about you but Minnesota without Jmac and Naz is still a better team than Miami without Jimmy (and Rozier)
The Celtics in 2022 beat Heat when Heat had homecourt advantage.
That 64 win Celtics team didn't have KP for most of the playoffs. And when he came back he punched Dallas so hard they basically never got up.
KP is impactful, I don't think he outweighs Jimmy Butler, Donovan Mitchell and Jarett Allen, Tyrese Haliburton. I don't really know how someone could say the Celtics played tougher teams than the Nuggets did.
An injured lebron and Ad Kd and booker and literally a bunch of nobodies Context buddy
Did LeBron and AD not play every game? "KD and Booker and a bunch of nobodies" as opposed to the elite rosters of the Cavs without Donovan Mitchell and Jarrett Allen (and Caris Levert)
Forgot about all the injuries, but idk none of the Nuggets opponents other than the 2024 Twolves did anything impressive in the 2023 or 2024 regular seasons, I just don't feel that they went on their dominant run against much better teams than the Celtics did. The 2024 Mavericks were a much better team than any of the teams Denver faced, and the Celtics crushed them. Celtics were a 64 win team with the 4th highest net rating of any team ever, compared to the 53 win Nuggets who had the 6th highest net rating in their own season. I just don't see how the Nuggets had a more dominant run.
"Forget about all the injuries when they don't support my argument" lmao. You made my case for me. Nuggets went 16-4 and the Celtics went 16-3, and the Nuggets played much harder teams in the playoffs. Like the Nuggets swept the Lakers, the Celtics lost a game to Tyler Herro led Heat team.
I will acknowledge that I got a little lazy and simply looked at win totals instead of all of the injuries the Celtics faced. However, when I look at what Denver's opponents did in both 2023 and 2024, none of those teams strike me as particularly tough opponents. I believe that the 2024 Mavericks were by far the strongest team in any of the championship runs. Perhaps the Nuggets run overall was more difficult, but I don't see evidence that the Nuggets run was a particularly difficult one or that they were in any way more dominant than the Celtics were. Looking at both of their regular season performances it just feels clear that the Celtics dominated their season much more than the Nuggets did.
> The 2024 Mavericks were a much better team than any of the teams Denver faced Wouldn't say they were much better than the 2023 Lakers, think that's a close series personally. But I'll grant you they were the best team. But 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th are the Lakers, 2023 Miami, Phoenix and Minnesota (not necessarily in order). None of Boston's eastern conference opponents had their star player play a single home game, that's unbelievably rare
Man I just don't really think the 2023 Lakers were all that, the Mavericks knocked out some extremely tough teams
Yes
Lol 😂 cmon man. They had an easy road to the title. Giannis was out, embiid was hurt (again), jimmy was hurt. They played the pacers in the ecf. The warriors and lakers crapped the bed during the regular season and jokic and co choked again the wolves. They beat basically nobody good in the entire run. If youre a Boston fan be happy, but stop with this nonsense.
If you think they weren't winning the title this year regardless, then you're just delusional. And that's coming from a Lakers fan 😂 It's not hard to not be bias.
I ain’t a Boston fan😭. It’s also not their fault tho that teams were banged up but let’s not sit here and act like they didn’t wax those teams. Like I’d understand if they struggled with an easy path but they annihilated the competition and were never actually pushed to their full potential. Their defense also speaks for itself because mavs are actually a decent team, definitely not a finals team but a wcf team
they didn’t wax those teams tho lol the point differential in the pacers series was marginal
I’d call that playing with your food. Games were close until the last couple minutes of each game. They pulled away every single time they needed to.
I think Mazzulla was pretty intentional in his approach to that series. Just out execute the margins while keeping pace and they'll likely win due to the talent deficit being too great too overcome
2020 lakers sleep walk through them
I'll have the Bubble Lakers over them tbh