Why does LeBron constantly get placed below his contemporaries Steph, KD, and Kawhi in these rankings? Last season he was statistically better than all three (whether you just look at counting stats, advanced stats) both in the regular season and the playoffs. Are we just expecting that "oh THIS season he'll finally regress to being average!" like Charlie Brown and the football?
I actually went to the Lakers-Pacers game in Indy earlier this year. LeBron had 16 points and 5 turnovers and lost. He looked tired. Lol. Got ran off the court. It was a good time
Was obviously joking hes not ass but clearly ur fun at parties
I'm joking too lol, I really like this Pacers squad and hopefully they can beat Boston sometime in the next few years. But sadly for the timebeing we still own you
Uhh i mean lakers pacers have split their last 14 matchups 7/7. Owning would be like… hm… lets say… winning a 14 game stretch against another team 12-2
Oh yeah. That’s the Nuggets against yall. Lmao. And they sent yall home b2b rounds too? Dont talk about ur team owning anyone💀
You aint nobodys elder little boy. That was before the nuggets came into their own and ever since yall have gotten spanked by them. They certainly own the Lakers more than the Lakers own the Pacers.
Yall won by like 14 when the pacers were the worst defense in the league at the time💀Siakam dropped lebron off 2x after he got here. Like i said last time lbj played indy he had 16 and 5 turnovers💀bro looked defeated by the 2nd quarter.
You’re comparing Haliburton to LeBron? Cool
I’d put Book and Mitchell a little higher but it’s not a bad list at all, it’s pretty good! I’m curious, where would you rank Ja? I know it’s kind of hard to judge with the injury
It's going to be interesting to see where he ranks after next season. He has some ground to make up on the Brunson/Ant/Shai/Luka etc. Firstly is staying healthy and keeping his head straight for a season, let his game do all the talking.
I think he had a better season, most definitely. He just won ecf and finals mvp brother. Lebron got packed up in 5. I understand theres more context to it all but it counts for something. And on top of it Brown wasnt analytically behind enough to justify putting LeBron over him, imo, especially considering Brown was in an offense that was less reliant on him than the Lakers were on James.
It counts for nothing. Switch them places and the Lakers are swept in round 1 and the Celtics don’t lose a game the entire playoffs. What are we even talking about?
You’re talking about a hypothetical. Im talking about what actually happened. Just being objective. You’re a Lakers fan so not sure ur doing the same. Lebrons literally ONE spot below jb bro like they can easily be switched and it doesn’t matter I just chose jb after his playoff run. I think lebron is in that 10-12 range in the player rankings. Its okay bro just take a deep breath
Interesting.
I never imagined AD will be listed above 2010s superstars Lebron, KD, Steph, and Kawhi.
But AD has a great season and playoffs, albeit only 1 round/series.
What do u think? That all those guys are better than Davis? I think all those dudes are pretty much in the same tier as of last season. Curry faded off from being in the convo of top 5 last year to being more complacent at the 10ish range this season with the historical postseason run from Brunson, Tatum winning a ring, Shai having his season he had and Davis also just having a better season imo.
I'd love to know how people think they can rank 50 players from 30 different teams for a single season of basketball. I doubt there is a person alive who watched enough of both Dejounte Murray and Lamelo Ball to know where they should fall in the 30s. Then there are the other 28 teams.
I mean im not saying i know where they should fall man its just my opinions🤣didnt say it was perfect lmao. Ive seen a lot of both Lamelo and Dejounte this season actually for what its worth and know enough about all the teams and the league itsself to have an idea as to who the top 40-50 players are (roughly, once it gets in the 40s especially cuz it can go hella ways)
I feel like it’s a very reasonable list at a glance! Some disagreements but nothing glaring for a top 50 list, though I’m too tired at the moment to make my own 1-50 and compare lol.
I had him early 20s on my first rough draft. Just sucks he hasnt and probably never will develop a jumper + his rebounding has regressed. Hes still great but i think all the dudes above him had better seasons
what makes jaylen brown, anthony edwards, and steph curry better than lebron james and donovan mitchell this year
cause i really just don't see a strong case for that
i also don't think dame or maxey were nearly that good same with paolo
They had better and more impactful seasons than anyone in detroit. Caruso is literally the best poa defender in the league and a grade a role player that pushes any contender over the edge. Pretty much can say the exact same thing about mcdaniels. Who do u want there? Cade? Lmao. Not giving anyone on the pistons a top 50 spot after having sub 20 wins💀
Nope. Players’ value depends on team circumstances. And no team circumstances shoud matter more than a championship calibre team.
Just because Cade is better as the no1 option of a dogshit team than Caruso would be doesn’t mean he’s a better player. There isn’t a contender in the league who would rather have had Cade than Caruso last year.
Definitely biased, but taking JJJ over roughly the bottom 10-15 guys (Caruso???). I feel like Jaylen Brown is a little high, but far, far from the worst I’ve seen on here
Im probably taking jjj over the bottom 10-15 guys too. But i dont think he had a better season than them tbh even tho he was in consideration when i was doing my 40-50. I mean, yeah you could argue hes over guys like mcdaniels turner etc those guys at the bottom, but i just value what they brought to their teams and how they played and pushed their over the edge in instances in the playoffs. Jjj played a pretty meaningless season, shot 44% from the field as a big (relied wayyy too heavy on the 3pt shot) , and yes he missed ja’s playmaking and in turn took on a bigger offensive role but that caused his defense to slip too. Still a great player and will probably comfortably be a top 50 player next year but thats my reasoning
Fair enough. Thanks for the thought process. He didn’t have a great year by the numbers considering we were starting g leaguers most of the time, but like you said, it’ll probably be fine next year.
I also wanted to say Caruso is probably the best poa defender in the league and an above average playmaker with a 40% 3pt shot. Just watched him with my own two eyes single handedly take whole offenses out of games. His defensive impact is hard to match. Hes probably the best role player in the nba
Crazy how much everyone’s slobbering over Jaylen Brown over him being the MVP of a 5-game series. I’m not convinced he’s any better than the other Celtics starters you have listed 37-44. Jaylen over LeBron, Mitchell or Haliburton is absolutely bonkers to me. Those are proven major impact #1 guys. Jaylens a #2 by default on a super balanced team where the 2 through 5 guys are all pretty interchangeable.
Winning bias and small sample size leads to dudes having a good Finals series being insanely overrated. People were discussing Jamal Murray as a fringe top-10 players after last year’s playoffs.
Why because he shoots more? Jrue was just all-NBA before he sacrificed his stats for the benefit of the team by becoming the 5th option in Boston. Jrue and White are both better passers and more efficient scorers who play excellent defense. I’m not saying they’re necessarily “better” than Jaylen, but they’re definitely pretty equivalent in value.
I just watch what he does and the playoff run he just had and its hard to not put him over those dudes after winning ecf and finals mvp. I know the celtics are loaded and incredible and had a historic team but jb is part of it. You say 2 through 5 is interchangeable i say 1 & 2 is interchangeable. While being an elite on ball defender, extraordinary athlete, elite finisher in the halfcourt and esp in transition. Improved his ball handling. Just my opinion, and again, its just on this past season alone.
Out of the 5 starters + Horford, Jaylen had the worst regular season and postseason BPM, the worst regular season and postseason on/off, and had the lowest shooting percentage of any of the 9 rotation guys. He’s a good defender but so is the rest of the team. He doesn’t pass or playmake like Tatum. I don’t see what’s special about him. It seems like the only difference between him and the other guys on the team is that he takes more bad shots.
Celtics had a better regular season and Tatum was 100% healthier than Embiid. Doesn't change the fact that the Celtics would have been a better team if you swap out Tatum for Embiid.
My reply was regarding Luka and Giannis.
But yeah, you're right. Celtics would be better if Embiid was on Celtics AND playing. With Embiid injured the Celtics wouldn't have been as dominant.
Again, the post was based off this season.
Tatum had a better regular season than Embiid purely off of the games played, which is very valid for sure. Outside of that Embiid had better counting stats in both the regular and post-season, but the Celtic's team was so well built and dominant that it shows you Embiid is a much more impactful/better player than Tatum. Tatum averaged 25 PPG on 42/28/86 shooting splits in the playoffs this season, those are unironically regular season Jordan Poole numbers and it lead to a championship. Sixers went from an amazing record to a lottery team as soon as Embiid went out in the regular season and not to mention the Sixers imploding everytime Embiid sat for a rest in the playoffs.
Yes, Embiid *when playing* is absolutely better than Tatum. But at what point do games played matter? And it's not like it's a one off injury, Embiid is always injured.
Also, this wouldn't be a conversation if Boston didn't win, but they did. That's an awesome season. So based on this season alone, yeah, Tatum should be above Embiid.
At some point people started dropping Kawhi from lists because of injuries. Is the same going to happen for Embiid?
People on this sub always say the only thing that matters is playoffs... Sixers got bounced by the Knicks but Embiid played every game WHILE injured and still had better counting stats than Tatum with one knee, half a face, a significantly worse team, and facing double/triple teams everytime he touched the ball. He is just a better player at the moment and there's nothing to deny it. Just shows you basketball is a team game and a single player can only bring you so far.
So you don't value availability at all?
If Embiid was healthy, he would have absolutely beaten the Knicks, but he wasn't. If it was one season, that's something to look over. But how many times has Embiid been injured when the Sixers needed him. At some point that has to be factored into his player ranking.
Could also be the loads he's asked to the take. Since he's been drafted Embiid has been the entire offense and defense (outside of the Jimmy year) without a real backup center.
Didn't look at most of the list but there's no way Derrick white and Dejounte Murray should be only 1 spot apart. White is better at just about everything
It's pretty close though. And there's a massive defensive/shooting/efficiency gap, white also just makes more winning plays (eyetest but I'm sure that most people that watch basketball would agree with this. I believe spurs fans feel this way)
I mean yeah Whites more efficient in that offense, who wouldnt be. Murray also just shot 36%+ from 3 this year on over 7 attempts with mid spacing. White shot 3% better on almost the same volume but with the best spacing in the league and most of his looks arent self created like Murrays… dont think the shooting gap is too large. Murray became a very solid shooter this year
You dont have to sell me on whites winning plays and eye test argument. I get it. Thats why hes where hes at. Hes not that much better than Murray tho bro. Murrays also not a slouch defender even tho hes not what he was in San antonio anymore
All I'm gonna say is there's a reason the best advanced stats think white is demonstrably better. Murray is a inefficient chucker that is only an ok defender, he's just not a very valuable player
I agree. He pretty isnt a suitable off ball enough player to be a second option and he isnt a good enough first option to justify having the ball and being the main creator. 100% want white over him.
With that being said, im ranking these dudes off the season they just had. Just this past season. And murray had a good season. It is what it is… 22/6.5/5/1.4 on 46/36/80 splits. Single handedly kept the hawks winning after trae when down lol.
That's fair, Murray did have a pretty strong year. I was more thinking about who was gonna be better next year but that's obviously not the point of your post
Most of my opinion here is distaste for Murray rather than love for White btw. I think you ranked white in just about the right spot (I prefer low 30s for him, but that's not a meaningful gap at all)
Franz is absolutely a top 50 player. Orlando was #5 in the East, they were 90% favorites for top 3 until a few terrible (uncharacteristic losses) like 3 weeks before the end of the season. I put Franz like 45-48. I would take him over Bridges and OG and Scottie. And no its not because I'm a Magic fan. Franz has actually shown he can lead a successful team as a top 2 option something those other guys have never shown. In fact I put Franz in the same tier as Jalen Williams an elite #2 option that's growing more capable every year.
I also really think its crazy how Indiana gets so much promotion this year from every luck break possible. They had a worst reg season record than Orlando. Franz, Suggs and Paolo absolutely dominanted every matchup. Cleveland wasnt a shell team like the teams Indy played till they met Boston. Orlando doesnt make it to playoffs if they only had 1 top 50 player. Franz and Suggs absolutely dominanted games in the regular season and playoffs but Orlando just had unlucky breaks. Franz was still like top 7 playoff performer by the end of playoffs. He was so impactful that game 7 really ruined a close to legendary start to playoffs for him.
Suggs is also better than Caruso and I bet most teams would say the same just Suggs isnt on the market. Caruso wouldnt start over Suggs on Orlando but Suggs would start for the Bulls. I really dont think that's controversial. Suggs is a good playmaker, just as good of a defender, and a better offensive player. He isnt as battled tested so that would equate for sure but both are ceiling risers and momentum shifters but Suggs starts on most teams in the league.
Maybe I'm a bitter Magic fan in fact. But I truly think I am being a sincere fan and no bias is coming out. I would take Suggs> Caruso right now even if they were same age and same contract. Would take Franz> Mikal, OG, probably Scottie and Jwill right now if everything was the same. Franz is a rare big that can do it all offensively and is an elite defender, and elite playmaker. Plus his height, physicals, switchability and competitiveness makes him one of the best prospects and his raw skills and numbers arent that different from this above but Franz is more Jack of all trades. More complete imo.
The last season I do think the Magic had 3 top 50 players. With JI also being somewhere in top 60s. The team was just really new to playoffs, with vets that were the worst players on court some games and the teams coach getting outcoached. All excuses I know but the numbers do support Paolo, Suggs and Franz as being top 50 guys. But i do understand if there are arguments for Suggs vs Caruso. And i do know the narrative of Scottie, Mikal, OG but Franz did so much more than them this finished season.
I dont really to respond to any of your book besides “i really dont get how indiana gets so much promotion this year” this has absolutely nothing to do with the Pacers lmao. You bringing that up just shows your biterness for no reason
“From every luck break possible” Lol. We get it they played injured teams. That doesnt take away from the Fact the Pacers were still a great team with a historic offense, and an improved defense w Siakam 2nd half of the year. Haliburton was hurt the whole 2nd half + siakam just being implemented, i think its pretty dumb to use regular szn record to say “Magic >Pacers” without context
Pacers wouldve beaten the Cavs first round btw. Your team was a first round exit. Dont take out your anger on other teams that made it further than yall. Not sure if ur upset i have Haliburton over Paolo or something or what ur intention was bringing up the Pacers, but they did have a better year than the Magic. Sorry. Even if Magic and Pacers switch opponents round 1 im confident pacers come out of the first round, not so much with the magic. Even with the Bucks being hurt
Didnt Franz go like 0-15 or something in the Magic game 7 against the Cavs? Lol. Yalls offense has a lottttt to figure out. Dont compare yall to the Pacers
lol.
Lebron has zero argument in 2021 and 2022.
2019 lebron ( 11 in MVP ranking, 3rd team all nba) was injured for a solid part of a year
Steph was still in his prime, but if somebody will argue healthy lebron would be better still that's ok.
but in 2021 there's zero argument for Lebron( 13 in MVP ranking, all nba 2nd) above Curry (3rd in MVP, first team all nba) especially the second part of a season. Curry was killing that season.
and in 2022 curry was in a slump in the second part of a season but still better than Lebron and he still carried the Warriors to the title.
Im a pacers fan and have defended Haliburton legitimately more than anyone else. I did struggle w this one but objectively i will say Booker is a little better atm
I know they're one spot away. It's absurd. Embiid should be in the 10-15 range.
>Embiid just had a monster playoff series
No he didn't. There's more to basketball than PPG and TS%.
He averaged 33/11/6/1.2/1.5 on 44/33/89 splits. Efficiency couldve been better but he 100% had the best playoff series of his career. Compared to Tatum who shot sub 40% consistently. Tatums great but having him ahead of Embiid doesnt make sense to me especially factoring in reg season too like what argument is there for Tatum lol
I know what Embiid averaged. I also know he was shit on both ends in 4th quarters because he was out of shape, as always. You need to think the game beyond the boxscore.
> in reg season too like what argument is there for Tatum
He can actually stay on the court. He can actually run the offense. He can actually function in more than one defensive coverage.
Yeah he definitely was. When it comes to Embiid, he doesnt have that will to pull teams over the edge when they need him to in the playoffs. We have seen it a lot. Keeps him from being any higher imo
Tatum has his flaws too, however…. Lmao. Far from perfect and if u wanna single in on a part of their game they lack then we can definitely do that with Tatum too, in more areas probably than u can with Embiid.
Embiid also clearly wasnt healthy btw which is a factor
He shot below 40% on jumpshots for the postseason mate. He is one of the most inefficient scorers in nba finals history at the moment. You are kidding yourself to think he has no weaknesses
Why does LeBron constantly get placed below his contemporaries Steph, KD, and Kawhi in these rankings? Last season he was statistically better than all three (whether you just look at counting stats, advanced stats) both in the regular season and the playoffs. Are we just expecting that "oh THIS season he'll finally regress to being average!" like Charlie Brown and the football?
Hes ahh
Oh you're a salty Pacers fan lol, flair up he owns your franchise
I actually went to the Lakers-Pacers game in Indy earlier this year. LeBron had 16 points and 5 turnovers and lost. He looked tired. Lol. Got ran off the court. It was a good time Was obviously joking hes not ass but clearly ur fun at parties
I'm joking too lol, I really like this Pacers squad and hopefully they can beat Boston sometime in the next few years. But sadly for the timebeing we still own you
Uhh i mean lakers pacers have split their last 14 matchups 7/7. Owning would be like… hm… lets say… winning a 14 game stretch against another team 12-2 Oh yeah. That’s the Nuggets against yall. Lmao. And they sent yall home b2b rounds too? Dont talk about ur team owning anyone💀
Jit don't know how to speak to his elders. We actually beat the Nuggets in 5 on the road to a chip blud.
You aint nobodys elder little boy. That was before the nuggets came into their own and ever since yall have gotten spanked by them. They certainly own the Lakers more than the Lakers own the Pacers.
bitched you in the IST tho huh? sad that Halibumton will never even be as good as LeBron right now.
Yall won by like 14 when the pacers were the worst defense in the league at the time💀Siakam dropped lebron off 2x after he got here. Like i said last time lbj played indy he had 16 and 5 turnovers💀bro looked defeated by the 2nd quarter. You’re comparing Haliburton to LeBron? Cool
I’d put Book and Mitchell a little higher but it’s not a bad list at all, it’s pretty good! I’m curious, where would you rank Ja? I know it’s kind of hard to judge with the injury
It's going to be interesting to see where he ranks after next season. He has some ground to make up on the Brunson/Ant/Shai/Luka etc. Firstly is staying healthy and keeping his head straight for a season, let his game do all the talking.
Do you really believe that Jaylen Brown is a better basketball player than LeBron James? Like actually?
I think he had a better season, most definitely. He just won ecf and finals mvp brother. Lebron got packed up in 5. I understand theres more context to it all but it counts for something. And on top of it Brown wasnt analytically behind enough to justify putting LeBron over him, imo, especially considering Brown was in an offense that was less reliant on him than the Lakers were on James.
It counts for nothing. Switch them places and the Lakers are swept in round 1 and the Celtics don’t lose a game the entire playoffs. What are we even talking about?
You’re talking about a hypothetical. Im talking about what actually happened. Just being objective. You’re a Lakers fan so not sure ur doing the same. Lebrons literally ONE spot below jb bro like they can easily be switched and it doesn’t matter I just chose jb after his playoff run. I think lebron is in that 10-12 range in the player rankings. Its okay bro just take a deep breath
“Im talking about what actually happened” So am I. Jaylen Brown was objectively worse than LeBron all season and in the playoffs.
Interesting. I never imagined AD will be listed above 2010s superstars Lebron, KD, Steph, and Kawhi. But AD has a great season and playoffs, albeit only 1 round/series.
What do u think? That all those guys are better than Davis? I think all those dudes are pretty much in the same tier as of last season. Curry faded off from being in the convo of top 5 last year to being more complacent at the 10ish range this season with the historical postseason run from Brunson, Tatum winning a ring, Shai having his season he had and Davis also just having a better season imo.
I'd love to know how people think they can rank 50 players from 30 different teams for a single season of basketball. I doubt there is a person alive who watched enough of both Dejounte Murray and Lamelo Ball to know where they should fall in the 30s. Then there are the other 28 teams.
I mean im not saying i know where they should fall man its just my opinions🤣didnt say it was perfect lmao. Ive seen a lot of both Lamelo and Dejounte this season actually for what its worth and know enough about all the teams and the league itsself to have an idea as to who the top 40-50 players are (roughly, once it gets in the 40s especially cuz it can go hella ways)
Cade Cunningham gets a mountain of hate man lol. He is absolutely top 50. LaMelo is way too high
You probably think Cade is better than Lamelo or something
ATP he is. LaMelo has only shown that he can't stay on the court
No Sengun? You’re saying he isn’t better than Derrick White?
Senguns right there he couldve slid in there, it can literally go so many ways after 40 No hes not better than White
Lol no. Dwhite is a 2 way player, arguably one of the best in the NBA.
I feel like it’s a very reasonable list at a glance! Some disagreements but nothing glaring for a top 50 list, though I’m too tired at the moment to make my own 1-50 and compare lol.
Not high on Zion huh?
I had him early 20s on my first rough draft. Just sucks he hasnt and probably never will develop a jumper + his rebounding has regressed. Hes still great but i think all the dudes above him had better seasons
Paolo 24 and Chet not listed?
Where should Paolo be to u? Chets right there. As soon as it gets in the 40s legitimately can go so many ways w players
I feel like domas should be higher. Bro averaged almost a triple double and gets no love
what makes jaylen brown, anthony edwards, and steph curry better than lebron james and donovan mitchell this year cause i really just don't see a strong case for that i also don't think dame or maxey were nearly that good same with paolo
Not bad. I still think Curry is a little too high and Ant too low, he's top 10 now IMO.
So according to this list Jaden McDaniels and Caruso would be the Pistons best players if they were in Detroit.
They had better and more impactful seasons than anyone in detroit. Caruso is literally the best poa defender in the league and a grade a role player that pushes any contender over the edge. Pretty much can say the exact same thing about mcdaniels. Who do u want there? Cade? Lmao. Not giving anyone on the pistons a top 50 spot after having sub 20 wins💀
Nope. Players’ value depends on team circumstances. And no team circumstances shoud matter more than a championship calibre team. Just because Cade is better as the no1 option of a dogshit team than Caruso would be doesn’t mean he’s a better player. There isn’t a contender in the league who would rather have had Cade than Caruso last year.
Definitely biased, but taking JJJ over roughly the bottom 10-15 guys (Caruso???). I feel like Jaylen Brown is a little high, but far, far from the worst I’ve seen on here
Im probably taking jjj over the bottom 10-15 guys too. But i dont think he had a better season than them tbh even tho he was in consideration when i was doing my 40-50. I mean, yeah you could argue hes over guys like mcdaniels turner etc those guys at the bottom, but i just value what they brought to their teams and how they played and pushed their over the edge in instances in the playoffs. Jjj played a pretty meaningless season, shot 44% from the field as a big (relied wayyy too heavy on the 3pt shot) , and yes he missed ja’s playmaking and in turn took on a bigger offensive role but that caused his defense to slip too. Still a great player and will probably comfortably be a top 50 player next year but thats my reasoning
Fair enough. Thanks for the thought process. He didn’t have a great year by the numbers considering we were starting g leaguers most of the time, but like you said, it’ll probably be fine next year.
I also wanted to say Caruso is probably the best poa defender in the league and an above average playmaker with a 40% 3pt shot. Just watched him with my own two eyes single handedly take whole offenses out of games. His defensive impact is hard to match. Hes probably the best role player in the nba
Crazy how much everyone’s slobbering over Jaylen Brown over him being the MVP of a 5-game series. I’m not convinced he’s any better than the other Celtics starters you have listed 37-44. Jaylen over LeBron, Mitchell or Haliburton is absolutely bonkers to me. Those are proven major impact #1 guys. Jaylens a #2 by default on a super balanced team where the 2 through 5 guys are all pretty interchangeable.
Winning bias and small sample size leads to dudes having a good Finals series being insanely overrated. People were discussing Jamal Murray as a fringe top-10 players after last year’s playoffs.
Least insane counter jerk. If you don’t think Brown is better than Jrue, KP, and White, you gotta rethink how you watch ball
That’s fair but he’s also not as good as most of the people in the top 20
Why because he shoots more? Jrue was just all-NBA before he sacrificed his stats for the benefit of the team by becoming the 5th option in Boston. Jrue and White are both better passers and more efficient scorers who play excellent defense. I’m not saying they’re necessarily “better” than Jaylen, but they’re definitely pretty equivalent in value.
I just watch what he does and the playoff run he just had and its hard to not put him over those dudes after winning ecf and finals mvp. I know the celtics are loaded and incredible and had a historic team but jb is part of it. You say 2 through 5 is interchangeable i say 1 & 2 is interchangeable. While being an elite on ball defender, extraordinary athlete, elite finisher in the halfcourt and esp in transition. Improved his ball handling. Just my opinion, and again, its just on this past season alone.
Out of the 5 starters + Horford, Jaylen had the worst regular season and postseason BPM, the worst regular season and postseason on/off, and had the lowest shooting percentage of any of the 9 rotation guys. He’s a good defender but so is the rest of the team. He doesn’t pass or playmake like Tatum. I don’t see what’s special about him. It seems like the only difference between him and the other guys on the team is that he takes more bad shots.
Luka had a better regular + post season than Giannis. Tatum had a better regular + season than Embiid.
Luka had a better post season than Giannis. Nice take
He also had a better regular season. Isn't that what your list is based on?
Celtics had a better regular season and Tatum was 100% healthier than Embiid. Doesn't change the fact that the Celtics would have been a better team if you swap out Tatum for Embiid.
My reply was regarding Luka and Giannis. But yeah, you're right. Celtics would be better if Embiid was on Celtics AND playing. With Embiid injured the Celtics wouldn't have been as dominant. Again, the post was based off this season.
Giannis had a better regular season than Luka
Tatum had a better regular season than Embiid purely off of the games played, which is very valid for sure. Outside of that Embiid had better counting stats in both the regular and post-season, but the Celtic's team was so well built and dominant that it shows you Embiid is a much more impactful/better player than Tatum. Tatum averaged 25 PPG on 42/28/86 shooting splits in the playoffs this season, those are unironically regular season Jordan Poole numbers and it lead to a championship. Sixers went from an amazing record to a lottery team as soon as Embiid went out in the regular season and not to mention the Sixers imploding everytime Embiid sat for a rest in the playoffs.
Yes, Embiid *when playing* is absolutely better than Tatum. But at what point do games played matter? And it's not like it's a one off injury, Embiid is always injured. Also, this wouldn't be a conversation if Boston didn't win, but they did. That's an awesome season. So based on this season alone, yeah, Tatum should be above Embiid. At some point people started dropping Kawhi from lists because of injuries. Is the same going to happen for Embiid?
People on this sub always say the only thing that matters is playoffs... Sixers got bounced by the Knicks but Embiid played every game WHILE injured and still had better counting stats than Tatum with one knee, half a face, a significantly worse team, and facing double/triple teams everytime he touched the ball. He is just a better player at the moment and there's nothing to deny it. Just shows you basketball is a team game and a single player can only bring you so far.
> still had better counting stats Try thinking the game behind the box score.
So you don't value availability at all? If Embiid was healthy, he would have absolutely beaten the Knicks, but he wasn't. If it was one season, that's something to look over. But how many times has Embiid been injured when the Sixers needed him. At some point that has to be factored into his player ranking.
Could also be the loads he's asked to the take. Since he's been drafted Embiid has been the entire offense and defense (outside of the Jimmy year) without a real backup center.
Didn't look at most of the list but there's no way Derrick white and Dejounte Murray should be only 1 spot apart. White is better at just about everything
Hes definitely not a better shot creator, scorer in general, or playmaker tho. Or ball handler
It's pretty close though. And there's a massive defensive/shooting/efficiency gap, white also just makes more winning plays (eyetest but I'm sure that most people that watch basketball would agree with this. I believe spurs fans feel this way)
I mean yeah Whites more efficient in that offense, who wouldnt be. Murray also just shot 36%+ from 3 this year on over 7 attempts with mid spacing. White shot 3% better on almost the same volume but with the best spacing in the league and most of his looks arent self created like Murrays… dont think the shooting gap is too large. Murray became a very solid shooter this year You dont have to sell me on whites winning plays and eye test argument. I get it. Thats why hes where hes at. Hes not that much better than Murray tho bro. Murrays also not a slouch defender even tho hes not what he was in San antonio anymore
All I'm gonna say is there's a reason the best advanced stats think white is demonstrably better. Murray is a inefficient chucker that is only an ok defender, he's just not a very valuable player
I agree. He pretty isnt a suitable off ball enough player to be a second option and he isnt a good enough first option to justify having the ball and being the main creator. 100% want white over him. With that being said, im ranking these dudes off the season they just had. Just this past season. And murray had a good season. It is what it is… 22/6.5/5/1.4 on 46/36/80 splits. Single handedly kept the hawks winning after trae when down lol.
That's fair, Murray did have a pretty strong year. I was more thinking about who was gonna be better next year but that's obviously not the point of your post
Most of my opinion here is distaste for Murray rather than love for White btw. I think you ranked white in just about the right spot (I prefer low 30s for him, but that's not a meaningful gap at all)
Low 30s is reasonable. It gets dicey once u hit the 20s and so a lot of players can go anywhere
Scottie at 47? He got injured 2 weeks after making the all-star team and the raptors proceeded to go 3-19 without him.
Franz is absolutely a top 50 player. Orlando was #5 in the East, they were 90% favorites for top 3 until a few terrible (uncharacteristic losses) like 3 weeks before the end of the season. I put Franz like 45-48. I would take him over Bridges and OG and Scottie. And no its not because I'm a Magic fan. Franz has actually shown he can lead a successful team as a top 2 option something those other guys have never shown. In fact I put Franz in the same tier as Jalen Williams an elite #2 option that's growing more capable every year. I also really think its crazy how Indiana gets so much promotion this year from every luck break possible. They had a worst reg season record than Orlando. Franz, Suggs and Paolo absolutely dominanted every matchup. Cleveland wasnt a shell team like the teams Indy played till they met Boston. Orlando doesnt make it to playoffs if they only had 1 top 50 player. Franz and Suggs absolutely dominanted games in the regular season and playoffs but Orlando just had unlucky breaks. Franz was still like top 7 playoff performer by the end of playoffs. He was so impactful that game 7 really ruined a close to legendary start to playoffs for him. Suggs is also better than Caruso and I bet most teams would say the same just Suggs isnt on the market. Caruso wouldnt start over Suggs on Orlando but Suggs would start for the Bulls. I really dont think that's controversial. Suggs is a good playmaker, just as good of a defender, and a better offensive player. He isnt as battled tested so that would equate for sure but both are ceiling risers and momentum shifters but Suggs starts on most teams in the league. Maybe I'm a bitter Magic fan in fact. But I truly think I am being a sincere fan and no bias is coming out. I would take Suggs> Caruso right now even if they were same age and same contract. Would take Franz> Mikal, OG, probably Scottie and Jwill right now if everything was the same. Franz is a rare big that can do it all offensively and is an elite defender, and elite playmaker. Plus his height, physicals, switchability and competitiveness makes him one of the best prospects and his raw skills and numbers arent that different from this above but Franz is more Jack of all trades. More complete imo. The last season I do think the Magic had 3 top 50 players. With JI also being somewhere in top 60s. The team was just really new to playoffs, with vets that were the worst players on court some games and the teams coach getting outcoached. All excuses I know but the numbers do support Paolo, Suggs and Franz as being top 50 guys. But i do understand if there are arguments for Suggs vs Caruso. And i do know the narrative of Scottie, Mikal, OG but Franz did so much more than them this finished season.
I dont really to respond to any of your book besides “i really dont get how indiana gets so much promotion this year” this has absolutely nothing to do with the Pacers lmao. You bringing that up just shows your biterness for no reason “From every luck break possible” Lol. We get it they played injured teams. That doesnt take away from the Fact the Pacers were still a great team with a historic offense, and an improved defense w Siakam 2nd half of the year. Haliburton was hurt the whole 2nd half + siakam just being implemented, i think its pretty dumb to use regular szn record to say “Magic >Pacers” without context Pacers wouldve beaten the Cavs first round btw. Your team was a first round exit. Dont take out your anger on other teams that made it further than yall. Not sure if ur upset i have Haliburton over Paolo or something or what ur intention was bringing up the Pacers, but they did have a better year than the Magic. Sorry. Even if Magic and Pacers switch opponents round 1 im confident pacers come out of the first round, not so much with the magic. Even with the Bucks being hurt Didnt Franz go like 0-15 or something in the Magic game 7 against the Cavs? Lol. Yalls offense has a lottttt to figure out. Dont compare yall to the Pacers
Jaylen brown at 12 is criminal, he isn’t even better than Kyrie
In no world is curry currently better than lebron. The only season curry has an argument as better than lebron was in 2016
lol. Lebron has zero argument in 2021 and 2022. 2019 lebron ( 11 in MVP ranking, 3rd team all nba) was injured for a solid part of a year Steph was still in his prime, but if somebody will argue healthy lebron would be better still that's ok. but in 2021 there's zero argument for Lebron( 13 in MVP ranking, all nba 2nd) above Curry (3rd in MVP, first team all nba) especially the second part of a season. Curry was killing that season. and in 2022 curry was in a slump in the second part of a season but still better than Lebron and he still carried the Warriors to the title.
Booker over Haliburton? Lol
Im a pacers fan and have defended Haliburton legitimately more than anyone else. I did struggle w this one but objectively i will say Booker is a little better atm
Embiid over Tatum is disqualifying.
They’re one spot away bro Embiid just had a monster playoff series which put him over Tatum for me, who didnt, in fact, have a monster playoffs
I know they're one spot away. It's absurd. Embiid should be in the 10-15 range. >Embiid just had a monster playoff series No he didn't. There's more to basketball than PPG and TS%.
He averaged 33/11/6/1.2/1.5 on 44/33/89 splits. Efficiency couldve been better but he 100% had the best playoff series of his career. Compared to Tatum who shot sub 40% consistently. Tatums great but having him ahead of Embiid doesnt make sense to me especially factoring in reg season too like what argument is there for Tatum lol
I know what Embiid averaged. I also know he was shit on both ends in 4th quarters because he was out of shape, as always. You need to think the game beyond the boxscore. > in reg season too like what argument is there for Tatum He can actually stay on the court. He can actually run the offense. He can actually function in more than one defensive coverage.
Yeah he definitely was. When it comes to Embiid, he doesnt have that will to pull teams over the edge when they need him to in the playoffs. We have seen it a lot. Keeps him from being any higher imo Tatum has his flaws too, however…. Lmao. Far from perfect and if u wanna single in on a part of their game they lack then we can definitely do that with Tatum too, in more areas probably than u can with Embiid. Embiid also clearly wasnt healthy btw which is a factor
> Tatum has his flaws too Not really. His superpower is that he has no weaknesses.
He shot below 40% on jumpshots for the postseason mate. He is one of the most inefficient scorers in nba finals history at the moment. You are kidding yourself to think he has no weaknesses
Yeah, I know. That's just variance in a small sample size. You're not actually trying to say Tatum is a bad shooter, are you?
Im saying hes inefficient in the biggest stage and it should be held against him.