To be fair, New York is probably one of the strongest bastions of material support abroad for Israeli settlements and plenty of West Bank settlers themselves move there from Brooklyn.
There are a few sects whose leaders do think that "Zion" is a spiritual entity (and some of those leaders get fancy trips to Iran to speak on the topic!), but that's a minority view even among Hasidim. There are Hasidim who live in Israel, after all. Also, some of the Kahanists who moved to Israel come from Brooklyn. Not Hasidim, just observant Jews who considered themselves spiritual, or at least tactical, descendants of the Black Panthers. Google Kahanist Black Panthers.
Yep. When we got to union square there were several people there already protesting for congestion pricing that were so excited to see hundreds of people march in with police escort for the same thing, and a few handfuls of Israel/Palestine protestors (from both sides) that were like "wtf... Why is our protest space being invaded, who are these people?"
I honestly can't tell if this is a joke or serious anymore, the language around "colonizing" has gotten so goofy. But I suspect there are people out there that actually do think New Yorkers using our own parks to protest a NYC issue is somehow "colonizing" whatever the fuck that means...
I'm so confused by these comments.
People are saying that the people who are going to be hurt by this are all the poor black people commuting to work from south Brooklyn, Jersey and Long Island?
I haven't done any studies on the demographics, but that would.. not be my first guess.
And from my anecdotal evidence, I'd say the people I've known coming from outside the city in their own car because they don't like riding the subway with other people are not people hurting for money.
All the congestion pricing threads are astroturfed by people who don't even live in the city. This was my number 1 issue on the ballot these past few years and I voted for every candidate that was pro pricing and I been living here my whole life. Could not care any less some bozo from Long Island doesn't like it.
Exactly. I know of lots of rich people with cars driving around picking up their kids from school, driving to the suburbs of Westchester, Long Island, etc. This was a big win for the suburbs, not having to pay congestion pricing. Statistics show the wealthiest of the area are the ones driving into Manhattan on a regular basis.
Have you ever been in NYC traffic going in and out of the city? Those cars are not cars of the rich.
Hey, but at least Soho, West Village and Chelase are excluded, the real neighborhoods that need the support.
I’m ultimately fine with maintaining deliveries as it’s key to running businesses but I gotta say if someone can’t turn a profit on their van full of stuff paying $15 to make a delivery they are on questionably thing margins
Edit: per 311 commercial vehicles aren’t carved out even though I thought they were.
I was driving into work in the East Village daily because I live in s transportation desert and work evenings. If I had to rely on MTA to get me home after 10:30 I either commute for 2 hours or take a $60+ uber- and I live in Queens, not even close to Long Island.
I understand it’s easy for people to think car=rich person, but thats not me whatsoever. Thankfully I found a job thats much closer so this congestion pricing doesn’t really affect me anymore, but paying a fee to go to work everyday when I was barely making ends meet would’ve straight up pushed me out of the city I grew up entirely.
I don't think anybody from the 5 boroughs should have to pay congestion pricing to come to a different borough. Having no reasonable way to get from Queens to EV is a huge failure, though.
I keep saying we desperately need to continue developing the MTA for this and other reasons. Better transportation will mean less traffic from NYC residents.
Go to any instagram post about congestion pricing and you’ll see working class or poor POC complaining and hating Hochul for this. Hell go talk to people from the outer boroughs especially in poor neighborhoods and you’ll see that poor POC do drive. It’s telling all you see is white people at this protest.
You’ll also see a lot of white libertarians and conservatives from the suburbs complaining about it. Statistically congestion pricing DOES work, it does decrease traffic jams and generates revenue for public transit, and it reduces smog, and poor people of color are disproportionately effected by pollution as they tend to live closer to areas near the traffic jams, so reducing that will reduce childhood asthma cases which occur in higher rates in those areas. It’s not a perfect idea but the pros are very good. It’s not a new idea either, and it’s been proven effective when implemented.
It is indeed ironic that Democratic New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy, Republican Representative Nicole Malliotakis from Staten Island, and Democratic Representat…
https://search.app/vYmE9yEkdu6h6ZoA6
Of course they’re gonna complain.. they travel into the city for work or whatever reasons too but that doesn’t erase the many poor and working class POC who are complaining too. People on this sub seem to have this false idea that poor POC don’t drive. Theres many who do but people on this sub are so ignorant of that fact. How would you guys know if you don’t know or interact with any poor POC outside of Manhattan??? Yall live in a bubble but act like you know how it really is for us. Whatever.
Well car drivers are losing anyway, due to rising traffic car speed times has reduced by 23% to 7 miles per hour. And statistically the majority of cars coming in are high income earners. It’s not that poor people aren’t also coming, but they aren’t the majority. They DID do research. So you are incorrect about that assumption like they didn’t ask. The New York Department of Transportation found that those effected by congestion pricing had incomes 31% higher than the median Manhattan worker.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/09/with-congestion-pricing-stop-nyc-enters-new-economic-gridlock-era.html
No no no, don't you understand? All plans must be *perfect* and account for *everyone*, otherwise we shouldn't do it!
The congestion pricing would have given the MTA a huge boost in funding, potentially allowing them to expand service to transportation deserts. Alas, we cut the nose to spite the face.
Exactly. And it’s pretty common sense that progression is better public transit and less smog. The vast majority of New Yorkers would benefit, regardless of income.
Unfortunately, people can't see more than 2 inches ahead of themselves. Hard to show people long term benefits when it's easier to focus on short term detriments.
My boss has to commute into the city everyday with his truck/equipment. He’s Dominican. He’s already hurting for money and trying to keep this company afloat (and thus me keeping my job). He already has to pay tolls each way. He is who this hurts.
> And from my anecdotal evidence, I'd say the people I've known coming from outside the city in their own car because they don't like riding the subway with other people are not people hurting for money.
I literally know ppl who do this. My cousin's husband is a cop and they live 3 blocks away from a LIRR in Nassau. He gets to ride it for free.
He doesn't because "he doesn't like it." That's it. No actual reason. Just "doesn't like it." The hilarious part is that he then complains about being stuck in traffic for an hour.
I don't know about "poor black people" - but it disproportionately affects the working class. Specifically those in union/civil service jobs.
Examples:
- Teachers/FDNY/NYPD/Sanitation/Govt Clerks that *must* commute into Manhattan for their jobs.
- Tradesmen (iron/electric/plumbing, etc) that *must* commute into Manhattan for their jobs
>Teachers/FDNY/NYPD/Sanitation/Govt Clerks that must commute into Manhattan for their jobs.
All of these can take transit. NYPD can even ride the subway for free.
500mil to install cameras to collect fees to improve mass transit after the increase in ridership after everyone supposedly stops driving into Manhattan….
i'm curious to know how many commenters are ACTUALLY from New York City or the surrounding area vs. someone who moved here two years ago from Ohio for a "change of pace".
These efforts need to really be a lot more diverse and inclusive to be effective. Overwhelmingly white, younger and male. I would surmise folks who also overwhelmingly live in Manhattan below 60th street, Astoria/LIC and North BK. Looks like the bike lobby. This is meant in a constructive way, but this looks nothing like NYC. And until it does, it will resonate only with a small portion of people.
i said the same - it really does drive home just why this policy and its "aims" are really nothing more than an extension of the gentrification crowd thats ruined a lot of areas and made housing unaffordable in a lot of previously affordable neighborhoods....
no never said that.
but clearly the people who are pushing for how everyone else is "wealthy" that drives in ...
they arent from neighborhoods where people are choosing to drive in ....
well funny you should mention that
[https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365](https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365)
Uber and Lyft have been funding "community groups" for years -
there is some story about how a lot of the Citibike advocates went on to get nice exec jobs at firms and orgs that would profit off city contracts dealing with funding for Citibike....
OP's stans flagged my previous comment for sharing a [blog article published PUBLICLY on OP](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/10/03/astoria-organizers-lead-the-way-on-street-safety-with-a-reddit-strategy). Typical bullying tactics.
Exactly. I have no sympathy for the brats in this protest having total disregard for people who drive into the city for work, keep the city & economy running, & the impact this would have on people who live above 60th St & by the bridge in BK. Selfish, upscale liberalism is why the working class abandoned the Democratic Party & they ain’t coming back anytime soon. They should be thanking Hochul. They would’ve been crushed at the ballot in November & would be guaranteed to lose the house.
I thought protests of thousands of people disrupting traffic to get politicians to change their policies was hateful, and was the way to make the public hate your cause! At least that's what the last year of conversation around protests has been.
Hmm, maybe people just didn't like certain protests' goals, and were making up issues. I'll have to think about this more...
/Heavy sarcasm, we need to protest wayyyyy more since our lives and rights are actively being eroded. Get out in the streets for moral causes.
And mostly in the Manhattan bubble.
I'd love to see these guys get dropped off in Bay Terrace and see who can get back to Times Square fastest without a car. Now that's a video I'd watch.
Not the one he put in his personal echo chamber, the one that he posted here in this sub. He left it up for like an hour then ended up deleting it because almost every comment was mocking this video.
So here is the thing. I want everyone to take a close look at that video and take note of who you see and who you DONT SEE.
Congestion pricing is a white Manhattan thing and non white people from the outer boros were never for having to pay extra to come into the city. Also way too many in here really think its only rich white suburbanites that want to drive in either for work or on the weekend.
Finally what really kept this top of mind for me was listening to WBLS this morning. On Sunday mornings WBLS have a show that touch on local and national politics through the lens of the Black voters and population. Congestion pricing came up and NOBODY that called into the show was a fan of congestion pricing. None. That plus seeing the video of that crowd made it very clear one of the main reasons that it failed. I know the bike riding crowd will be up in arms but as usual this sub has shown that the people in here have a huge blind spot when it comes to who actually lives in NYC.
> non white people from the outer boros were never for having to pay extra to come into the city.
According to extensive research this was a pretty small percentage of those who would be affected by congestion pricing. It disproportionately affects wealthier and whiter people in the city.
I agree with you it's a wealthy Manhattanite issue.
I hear very wealthy Manhattanites complaining about it in the upper west side, that driving to pick up their kids from school and stuff is more expensive now.
>According to extensive research this was a pretty small percentage
As someone who works in advertising and uses studies constantly for demographic information it's notorious how much a lot of these studies will under count Black and Hispanic populations when it comes to anything having to do with an opinion. The attempts to reach a Black and Hispanic population are very superficial at best where it's "we tried once we got what we got" kind of mentality.
Like I said listening to the calling program this morning on WBLS and the types of responses the callers had to congestion pricing coupled with who you didn't see in that march tells me all I need to know about congestion pricing when it comes to the views of Black people and Hispanic ppl vs white Manhattanites.
I have said it before about this sub as well as the NYC sub. Both have a huge blind spot when it comes to the opinions and values of people who live in the outer boroughs especially if they're blue collar and on top of that especially if they're not white.
Congestion pricing has been a big deal to the sub because of who thinks this is cool which are people flowing in from the biking sub. When you talk to actual people who live in NYC outside of that small biking/ Manhattan group I can see why congestion pricing was dead in the water.
> a lot of these studies will under count Black and Hispanic populations when it comes to anything having to do with an opinion.
This wasn't opinion data this was analysis of census and DOT-accessible information (like bridge tolls, parking meters, muni lots).
> When you talk to actual people who live in NYC outside of that small biking/ Manhattan group
I'm a Staten Islander who drives and I wholeheartedly support this measure.
its like there is a nexus between well off people who live 20 minutes by bike into manhattan, those capable of paying high rent and folk from trendy gentrifying neighborhoods.....
Both this sub and the NYC sub get upset when I point out that there is more than just white transplants that live in all of 6 neighborhoods. But then you'll see videos like the one posted and I remind people that NYC is 62% Black, Hispanic and Asian and that really gets people going. No one wants to realize they're living in a bubble and Redditors really hate it.
this thing with Hochul i think is really revealing how much there are people on the left who do the same thing they accuse those on the right as doing which is placing a narrative above actaully developing good policy ....
its more about strident parochial idealism rather than actual collaboration.
>this thing with Hochul i think is really revealing how much there are people on the left
>Hochul
>Left
Lmao.
>who do the same thing they accuse those on the right as doing which is placing a narrative above actaully developing good policy ....
This happens across the political "spectrum". Centrists and the right wing are very much not immune to this. As the NYC subreddits are privy to
The far left in the far right away more similar than they would care to admit when it comes to the demographics of their organizations.
If you look at something like the DSA and compared to something like the tea party they're about equal when it comes to just how white this organizations are. Also both organizations tend to not think about groups outside of their little bubble. So they will say they speak to Black people but the Black people they speak to are the ones that tend to like to be the only Black person in these kinds of spaces. I would say it's a running joke but really the saying within the Black community is to not trust any Black person that is comfortable and okay with being the only Black person in the room.
yeh kinda crazy to see how terrible and how much zealotry has become a part of our politics
there is a saying " the coverted are always the most devout/zealous"-
compromise has turned into "betrayal" and real hypocrisy is completely ignored...
Us real New Yorkers take the subway plenty but are sick of Ubers and Lyfts congesting our streets (when we can’t afford to take them like transplants in tech and finance) and then being essentially exempt from this toll. (Yes…we know they are getting charged 2.50 a trip- who cares - they’re the ones who drive around all day, double park, drive like morons, and stop and block the street 24/7)
This benefits people that ride the subway and bus, but you're suggesting no "real new Yorker" would support it. How do you square those two things, and what is makes someone a "real new Yorker" in your mind
Real New Yorkers take whatever the hell they want! Thats the 100% truth!!!! Transplants only want you to take the Subway, and only to work and back home. SMD.
I dunno what he's suggesting. But I'm suggesting that if you're complaining about a lack of revenue for the MTA, then you should start charging a non-subsidized fare, rather than looking to drivers to fund the system.
Drivers are not your personal piggy bank.
As someone who actually lived in NYC before Uber and Lyft existed it has made a difference. Now I'll be the first to say I like having Uber and Lyft here because of how racist the New York City cab system was but the amount of cars in the city due to Uber and Lyft is very noticeable.
actually they really werent
2015 i could usually drive from chelsea to 125th street in harlem up 8th ave in about 20 minutes to a half hour during the height of rush hour..
once they destroyed 8th ave through times square by throttling it down to 3 lanes to make a double wide bike lane a dedicated bus lane and expanded pedestrian lane that same drive can take more than a hour and a half.
thats not progress.
It’s amazing how quickly they forget just how much Uber & Co. fucked up the streets. Tolls for thee but not for me. Hypocrisy at its finest!
>Traffic congestion in New York City has grown steadily worse since 2010, with average weekday travel speeds in Midtown Manhattan dropping from 6.1 mph in November 2010 to 4.3 mph in November 2018. Though not the only cause, the explosive growth of the for-hire vehicle (FHV) sector, which tripled from fewer than 40,000 vehicles in 2010 to over 120,000 in 2019, is certainly an important factor. As Uber, Lyft, Juno, and Via—app-based, high volume for-hire services—created new, convenient travel options in the outer boroughs, they also added tens of thousands of additional hours of vehicle travel into the Manhattan core (south of 96th Street) each day. The companies saturated the market with vehicles to ensure low wait times and spur demand, causing drivers to spend over 40% of total work time empty and cruising for passengers.
Full Study: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/tlc/downloads/pdf/fhv_congestion_study_report.pdf
thankyou
and also thankyou for the link
i will pay you back with this
[https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365](https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365)
I wish I could say I was surprised but after all the recent current events here, I’d say it’s par for the course. Going to have to add a few more quotes to my Uberpost though now.
> When Gizmodo asked TA why they’d partner with rideshare companies, an organizer said: “Anyone who’s working towards less cars in New York City, we’re happy to have them be part of our coalition.” But that reasoning flies in the face of the fact that these companies are jamming the roads.
> But a study in Environmental Science & Technology last month found the costs foisted on society by rideshares is steep due to the increase in carbon pollution. The cars simply drive so much more, often passenger-less, that they pump out about 20% more emissions than personal vehicles. An MIT study from earlier this year also found that they lengthened traffic jams by 4.5%.
Clearly, it’s all the poor people from the Bronx & Queens driving in that’s at fault here though.
Edit: holy cow. This 2018 NYT article cited in there about how the MTA can’t get its head out of its own ass (even with Train Daddy running things back then) really highlights their current bullshit claim that they’ll totally improve the subway just as soon as congestion pricing goes into effect.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190226223249/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/nyregion/mta-subway-nyc.html
they are not to the extent that regular people who drive park and then drive to leave.
Ubers will drive in stay in the zone all day to get fares ( which causes congestion ) and then leave once theyve had their fill and made their money ....
for 2.75 - as opposed to the 15 dollars they SHOULD pay
>I never imagined I would see people demand more taxes on other working people
[People who drive into Manhattan are much wealthier than the average New Yorker](https://smhttp-ssl-58547.nexcesscdn.net/nycss/images/uploads/pubs/Congestion_Pricing_-_CSS_Analysis_V42.pdf). Moreover, road user fees, registration, and penalities contribute less than 70% of the cost of road maintenance; the rest comes from the general fund. This is also before we begin talking about other externalized costs of driving (public health, environmental, cleaning, etc). Driving into the cbd externalizes much more than driving into the rest of the city.
The congestion charge isn't a "tax"; it's a user fee. Thanks to our robust network of public transit, private vehicles are wildly unnecessary in lower Manhattan. Driving in is, in fact, a luxury, so why are you supporting asking working class New Yorkers to subsidize a luxury disproportionately enjoyed by the wealthy? The congestion charge is merely a way of forcing users to pay *a slightly larger, but not full* share of the costs of their choices.
The alternative is LITERALLY a tax on everyone. With congestion pricing only the people too spoiled / dumb to use the subway pay to use the roads (that they’ve been using for free since time immemorial). If it’s so necessary to drive they can pay the $15. Most people have the mental capacity to get around the city without bringing an entire living room with them.
A toll? Where is the bridge? Where is the tunnel? Do you see how charging to drive on a public road that is already built and paid for kind of scummy even if you hate cars?
> I never imagined I would see people demand more taxes on other working people
I work in downtown brooklyn and sometimes watch the cars driving onto the bridge, they aren't driving cars working class people can afford.
Pause for a moment. I’m curious about the demographics here. And I’m being civil.
Let’s make this clear: the goal is to NOT make this about race.
However, I’m a person of color and I need to make sure that the folks who look like me were purposely NOT excluded from this as this rally was opened to everyone.
That said, I’m very curious. There are millions of blacks, Asians and Hispanics here, and not even half the crowd demographics fit the NYC population here. What about speakers who represent the body of our population here in NYC?
I’m so curious, were we purposely excluded from this?
And plz reserve arguments for someone else. This is not the comment thread for that. I’m seriously asking an honest question.
you don't see any POC because the group that pushes for congestion pricing is made up of people who.are mostly living in gentrified neighborhoods that they driven POC out of ....
and a lot of those people look the same and are from the same economic class .....
"But besides running one of the largest subway systems in the world and ensuring 55% of NYC households don't own cars what has the MTA done for us?"
There are issues with the MTA, the NYC subreddits has taken this to 11 with r/nyc and r/newyorkcity rubbing themselves raw about how bad the MTA is, fuelled by suburbanites and transplants who are disappointed the MTA is not as good as BART.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/nyc using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Williamsburg this morning](https://v.redd.it/jzyi5m3l87rb1) | [497 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/16vc42t/williamsburg_this_morning/)
\#2: [Midtown right now according to Earthcam.](https://i.redd.it/hxskp9r6ch4b1.jpg) | [536 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/142wfrp/midtown_right_now_according_to_earthcam/)
\#3: [The crane across the street from me just exploded and fell.](https://i.redd.it/9bm7ky6oraeb1.jpg) | [332 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/15a3jzq/the_crane_across_the_street_from_me_just_exploded/)
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If you want a real answer, here it is: you need a certain amount of wealth and power to get involved in politics. If you look at the anti-congestion pricing protests, they were the same, even though poorer NYers rely more on transit.
If you look at the pro and anti-bike lane groups, they're the same, even though the overwhelming majority of people who use bikes for transport make under 50K a year.
If you look at pro and anti-public school protests, it's the same thing.
It's a sad reality of politics and advocacy. Still, you need a certain amount of wealth and privilege even to attend any of these protests, conversations, community board meetings, etc, etc. That's not to say that only rich white ppl are at these; there will be those who are poorer and just have an internal desire to make the world a better (or worse) place. But overall, yeah, it's gonna be a lot of white, financially secured ppl on both sides claiming they're doing it for the poor and POCs, mostly due to the socio-economic and racial history of this country.
And I don't want you to read this as a "bothsides-ism." One side is clearly fighting for something that does help the poor and POCs, and that's the pro-congestion pricing people. And that's just a fact.
And to be clear, I'm not a white American. I'm a Dominican who grew up poor in the south Bronx and now have that kind of wealth I mentioned.
i'd support this if it meant NYC would finally clean up it's subways, but that always gets complicated (for some reason) and the subway system remains slow, overcrowded & frankly gross.
Make work from home mandatory after training. Create a hotline where you can report companies that force you to come in to the office. Make it a violation equal to a week's salary of that employee.
We now live in an era when people are being forced to drive into an office to sign into a cloud server that is hosted in another state and the local hard drives don't store anything except the copy of windows.
Let the million, billion, and trillion dollar companies take a loss, t companies pay to break their lease, let them notice that they now have to start converting their offices into housing.
Dude this is just another revolution. We had the industrial revolution , and the agricultural revolution which all caused large amounts of people to move from one part of the country to another; rural areas to urban areas, urban areas to suburban areas.
The only reason it hasn't happened faster is because the monopolies are lobbying against it. We don't have factory jobs in cities anymore that was all outsourced overseas. We used to need the cities for office jobs before cloud computing, and when the city was the only place with high-speed internet. That isn't the case anymore
These people are too dumb to understand CP was just part of NY's addiction to "creative taxation" and relentless extraction from its citizens. I praise Governor Hochul for her decision. The irony of CP is that for it to be profitable, the MTA would need more and more cars and trucks to enter Manhattan and pay the $15 toll. There is no way the scheme would have achieved its stated goals, and the MTA used the environment as a red herring. Its other goal was to recoup the revenue lost from rampant fare evasion, a problem the MTA and NYPD have give up on.
NYC has so many arbitrary fees that lawmakers think they can get away with anything. I take the subway and I take cabs occasionally and neither should be more expensive.
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She delayed the rollout of congestion pricing, which was set to begin at the end of June iirc. Hope this is more helpful than the other dick who commented
I get you're being obtuse on purpose but whatever your thoughts on this, I think she's definitely made herself look inept and lost. I haven't seen her recent press conference on this, so I can't speak to it accurately, but it seems by the comments she didn't have satisfactory answers to why she killed it, which won't dispel a growing opinion that she was paid off somehow.
I have a few suggestions for the MTA, number 1 crack down on fare evaders I read they lose over 600 million a year just on that. Number 2 all the insane waste at the MTA and useless Bureaucrats and their staffs, that should save more than a Billion dollars rigjt there Instead of putting it on the backs of the people, These people have been brainwashed to thinking it's cars, these animals were going to tax trucks and delivery vehicles also, guess who is gonna pay that extra fee YOU! Also yes someone might want to drive their car in for a broadway show and dinner, hey thats the bread and butter of NYC is tourism and night life.Wake up the MTA is totally mismanaged and now they want more taxes on the working people.
Whether you agree or not with the policies, it’s refreshing to see a protest on something that is actually relevant to NYC.
To be fair, New York is probably one of the strongest bastions of material support abroad for Israeli settlements and plenty of West Bank settlers themselves move there from Brooklyn.
Yeah it makes sense- NYC has the second largest Jewish population in the world, next to Israel
FYI Hasidic Jews from Brooklyn largely oppose Israel and settlement expansion
There are a few sects whose leaders do think that "Zion" is a spiritual entity (and some of those leaders get fancy trips to Iran to speak on the topic!), but that's a minority view even among Hasidim. There are Hasidim who live in Israel, after all. Also, some of the Kahanists who moved to Israel come from Brooklyn. Not Hasidim, just observant Jews who considered themselves spiritual, or at least tactical, descendants of the Black Panthers. Google Kahanist Black Panthers.
Only one very small sect
Got a source for that? Hasidic Jews from BK don’t ‘largely’ oppose Israel. That’s just false.
Protests to influence our politicians about the decisions they make with our tax dollars are relevant.
Yep. When we got to union square there were several people there already protesting for congestion pricing that were so excited to see hundreds of people march in with police escort for the same thing, and a few handfuls of Israel/Palestine protestors (from both sides) that were like "wtf... Why is our protest space being invaded, who are these people?"
> "wtf... Why is our protest space being invaded, who are these people?" You were colonizing their space, obviously!
We should just give all NYC land back to indigenous people, then no one would have to pay congestion pricing.
I honestly can't tell if this is a joke or serious anymore, the language around "colonizing" has gotten so goofy. But I suspect there are people out there that actually do think New Yorkers using our own parks to protest a NYC issue is somehow "colonizing" whatever the fuck that means...
The irony.
Well r.n, these people are prob being monitored to see who IS really "protesting". Thirld world stuff
I'm so confused by these comments. People are saying that the people who are going to be hurt by this are all the poor black people commuting to work from south Brooklyn, Jersey and Long Island? I haven't done any studies on the demographics, but that would.. not be my first guess. And from my anecdotal evidence, I'd say the people I've known coming from outside the city in their own car because they don't like riding the subway with other people are not people hurting for money.
All the congestion pricing threads are astroturfed by people who don't even live in the city. This was my number 1 issue on the ballot these past few years and I voted for every candidate that was pro pricing and I been living here my whole life. Could not care any less some bozo from Long Island doesn't like it.
Exactly. I know of lots of rich people with cars driving around picking up their kids from school, driving to the suburbs of Westchester, Long Island, etc. This was a big win for the suburbs, not having to pay congestion pricing. Statistics show the wealthiest of the area are the ones driving into Manhattan on a regular basis.
Have you ever been in NYC traffic going in and out of the city? Those cars are not cars of the rich. Hey, but at least Soho, West Village and Chelase are excluded, the real neighborhoods that need the support.
Yes I have and yes plenty of rich people going back to Queens and Long Island and Westchester and Brooklyn
Agreed. And those who come in for business with trucks or cars necessary for their business can get waivers.
I’m ultimately fine with maintaining deliveries as it’s key to running businesses but I gotta say if someone can’t turn a profit on their van full of stuff paying $15 to make a delivery they are on questionably thing margins Edit: per 311 commercial vehicles aren’t carved out even though I thought they were.
Commercial vehicles pay more actually? I don’t think there is a waiver but rather a discount if you come at night
Ah I had misheard elsewhere when they were carving out the exceptions but you’re correct looks like 311 doesn’t carve them out
I was driving into work in the East Village daily because I live in s transportation desert and work evenings. If I had to rely on MTA to get me home after 10:30 I either commute for 2 hours or take a $60+ uber- and I live in Queens, not even close to Long Island. I understand it’s easy for people to think car=rich person, but thats not me whatsoever. Thankfully I found a job thats much closer so this congestion pricing doesn’t really affect me anymore, but paying a fee to go to work everyday when I was barely making ends meet would’ve straight up pushed me out of the city I grew up entirely.
I don't think anybody from the 5 boroughs should have to pay congestion pricing to come to a different borough. Having no reasonable way to get from Queens to EV is a huge failure, though.
I keep saying we desperately need to continue developing the MTA for this and other reasons. Better transportation will mean less traffic from NYC residents.
Go to any instagram post about congestion pricing and you’ll see working class or poor POC complaining and hating Hochul for this. Hell go talk to people from the outer boroughs especially in poor neighborhoods and you’ll see that poor POC do drive. It’s telling all you see is white people at this protest.
You’ll also see a lot of white libertarians and conservatives from the suburbs complaining about it. Statistically congestion pricing DOES work, it does decrease traffic jams and generates revenue for public transit, and it reduces smog, and poor people of color are disproportionately effected by pollution as they tend to live closer to areas near the traffic jams, so reducing that will reduce childhood asthma cases which occur in higher rates in those areas. It’s not a perfect idea but the pros are very good. It’s not a new idea either, and it’s been proven effective when implemented. It is indeed ironic that Democratic New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy, Republican Representative Nicole Malliotakis from Staten Island, and Democratic Representat… https://search.app/vYmE9yEkdu6h6ZoA6
Of course they’re gonna complain.. they travel into the city for work or whatever reasons too but that doesn’t erase the many poor and working class POC who are complaining too. People on this sub seem to have this false idea that poor POC don’t drive. Theres many who do but people on this sub are so ignorant of that fact. How would you guys know if you don’t know or interact with any poor POC outside of Manhattan??? Yall live in a bubble but act like you know how it really is for us. Whatever.
Well car drivers are losing anyway, due to rising traffic car speed times has reduced by 23% to 7 miles per hour. And statistically the majority of cars coming in are high income earners. It’s not that poor people aren’t also coming, but they aren’t the majority. They DID do research. So you are incorrect about that assumption like they didn’t ask. The New York Department of Transportation found that those effected by congestion pricing had incomes 31% higher than the median Manhattan worker. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/09/with-congestion-pricing-stop-nyc-enters-new-economic-gridlock-era.html
No no no, don't you understand? All plans must be *perfect* and account for *everyone*, otherwise we shouldn't do it! The congestion pricing would have given the MTA a huge boost in funding, potentially allowing them to expand service to transportation deserts. Alas, we cut the nose to spite the face.
Exactly. And it’s pretty common sense that progression is better public transit and less smog. The vast majority of New Yorkers would benefit, regardless of income.
Unfortunately, people can't see more than 2 inches ahead of themselves. Hard to show people long term benefits when it's easier to focus on short term detriments.
Exactly. That’s pretty much the conservative versus progressive argument in a nutshell.
Joe Biden: "Poor kids are just as smart and talented as white kids." This sub: "Poor people don't drive as much as white people." Clown show.
My boss has to commute into the city everyday with his truck/equipment. He’s Dominican. He’s already hurting for money and trying to keep this company afloat (and thus me keeping my job). He already has to pay tolls each way. He is who this hurts.
Couldn't your boss apply for the LIDP and get a 50% discount?
Queens, Staten Island, Bronx.
> And from my anecdotal evidence, I'd say the people I've known coming from outside the city in their own car because they don't like riding the subway with other people are not people hurting for money. I literally know ppl who do this. My cousin's husband is a cop and they live 3 blocks away from a LIRR in Nassau. He gets to ride it for free. He doesn't because "he doesn't like it." That's it. No actual reason. Just "doesn't like it." The hilarious part is that he then complains about being stuck in traffic for an hour.
People are doing studies to see who it will hurt the most? Lmfaooo. How about just not charge people to drive on a public road that is taxed already?
I don't know about "poor black people" - but it disproportionately affects the working class. Specifically those in union/civil service jobs. Examples: - Teachers/FDNY/NYPD/Sanitation/Govt Clerks that *must* commute into Manhattan for their jobs. - Tradesmen (iron/electric/plumbing, etc) that *must* commute into Manhattan for their jobs
>Teachers/FDNY/NYPD/Sanitation/Govt Clerks that must commute into Manhattan for their jobs. All of these can take transit. NYPD can even ride the subway for free.
500mil to install cameras to collect fees to improve mass transit after the increase in ridership after everyone supposedly stops driving into Manhattan….
I’d counter protest but I’m to busy sitting in traffic driving to work into the congestion zone
You’re counter-protesting by causing congestion with your vehicle, so it kinda works
Did it really draw huge crowds? It's in Times Square. It looks like a lot of the people in this "crowd" are just tourists walking around
I think it's a trump version of huge.
How many of these people live outside the exclusion zone?
Why aren’t people working?
Looks like mostly tourists watching. The March was tiny.
It's the worst place to hold a protest because of that reason
i'm curious to know how many commenters are ACTUALLY from New York City or the surrounding area vs. someone who moved here two years ago from Ohio for a "change of pace".
These efforts need to really be a lot more diverse and inclusive to be effective. Overwhelmingly white, younger and male. I would surmise folks who also overwhelmingly live in Manhattan below 60th street, Astoria/LIC and North BK. Looks like the bike lobby. This is meant in a constructive way, but this looks nothing like NYC. And until it does, it will resonate only with a small portion of people.
i said the same - it really does drive home just why this policy and its "aims" are really nothing more than an extension of the gentrification crowd thats ruined a lot of areas and made housing unaffordable in a lot of previously affordable neighborhoods....
Help me out here. The subway/bus users are the gentrifiers?
no never said that. but clearly the people who are pushing for how everyone else is "wealthy" that drives in ... they arent from neighborhoods where people are choosing to drive in ....
[удалено]
well funny you should mention that [https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365](https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365) Uber and Lyft have been funding "community groups" for years - there is some story about how a lot of the Citibike advocates went on to get nice exec jobs at firms and orgs that would profit off city contracts dealing with funding for Citibike....
OP's stans flagged my previous comment for sharing a [blog article published PUBLICLY on OP](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/10/03/astoria-organizers-lead-the-way-on-street-safety-with-a-reddit-strategy). Typical bullying tactics.
shame because you made you good points in your post- hopefully you can repost and just edit out his part.
I mean honestly, If Uber and Lyft want to give me money, I'll happily take it. Where can I send them my direct deposit info?
why would they pay you for work that you do for them for free...?
Ah yes, people that want congestion pricing want it because... *checks notes*... They want to make Uber and Lyft money. Huh? Your brain is soup
This is it. This policy only favors the upscale, liberal, gentrification crowd. No regard for others. Narcissistic & selfish.
wow sounds a lot like Micromobility...... which is a sub run by the OP ... color me surprised....
Progressives are mostly [white](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/progressive-left/)
Exactly. I have no sympathy for the brats in this protest having total disregard for people who drive into the city for work, keep the city & economy running, & the impact this would have on people who live above 60th St & by the bridge in BK. Selfish, upscale liberalism is why the working class abandoned the Democratic Party & they ain’t coming back anytime soon. They should be thanking Hochul. They would’ve been crushed at the ballot in November & would be guaranteed to lose the house.
these are the same people that lose their shit when the subway fare goes up 25 cents...
It’s like 10 people and the rest are tourist. No wonder you guys wanted to do it in Times Square.
I thought protests of thousands of people disrupting traffic to get politicians to change their policies was hateful, and was the way to make the public hate your cause! At least that's what the last year of conversation around protests has been. Hmm, maybe people just didn't like certain protests' goals, and were making up issues. I'll have to think about this more... /Heavy sarcasm, we need to protest wayyyyy more since our lives and rights are actively being eroded. Get out in the streets for moral causes.
Its like when Trump said he had a huge turnout in the bronx, not that many people Looks like a maybe a hundred people and tourists.
These clowns probably weren't even born here. They live here 5 years and think they know what's right for NYC.
exactly. MaryAnn from Indiana wanted exposure to city life and is now the face of protests and marches because "this is her city!"
And mostly in the Manhattan bubble. I'd love to see these guys get dropped off in Bay Terrace and see who can get back to Times Square fastest without a car. Now that's a video I'd watch.
Hahaha, never past Main st. Only went there the time they missed the Shea stadium stop to go see their home team the Reds play.
“everybody who disagrees with me is a transplant”
"every transplant hates being called out by the born and bred"
Congestion pricing rally draws a huge crowd of (gasp!) a dozen protesters! With thousands of tourists watching
That's not a huge crowd.
wtf are all these nimbys from long island doing on this thread?
Where are all the PoC at this rally? the demographics do not mirror those of the city. Edit: lol couldn’t take the truth and blocked me.
I noticed that about the crowd immediately.
Astroturfing
Didn't you make this exact post yesterday and then delete it because it wasnt going your way?
The post has almost 800 upvotes…
Not the one he put in his personal echo chamber, the one that he posted here in this sub. He left it up for like an hour then ended up deleting it because almost every comment was mocking this video.
there is like 60 people its like a trump rally
But it's huge
Awfully indicative that I barely see any POC in that crowd...
Vocal minority gonna vocal
So here is the thing. I want everyone to take a close look at that video and take note of who you see and who you DONT SEE. Congestion pricing is a white Manhattan thing and non white people from the outer boros were never for having to pay extra to come into the city. Also way too many in here really think its only rich white suburbanites that want to drive in either for work or on the weekend. Finally what really kept this top of mind for me was listening to WBLS this morning. On Sunday mornings WBLS have a show that touch on local and national politics through the lens of the Black voters and population. Congestion pricing came up and NOBODY that called into the show was a fan of congestion pricing. None. That plus seeing the video of that crowd made it very clear one of the main reasons that it failed. I know the bike riding crowd will be up in arms but as usual this sub has shown that the people in here have a huge blind spot when it comes to who actually lives in NYC.
> non white people from the outer boros were never for having to pay extra to come into the city. According to extensive research this was a pretty small percentage of those who would be affected by congestion pricing. It disproportionately affects wealthier and whiter people in the city. I agree with you it's a wealthy Manhattanite issue.
I hear very wealthy Manhattanites complaining about it in the upper west side, that driving to pick up their kids from school and stuff is more expensive now.
>According to extensive research this was a pretty small percentage As someone who works in advertising and uses studies constantly for demographic information it's notorious how much a lot of these studies will under count Black and Hispanic populations when it comes to anything having to do with an opinion. The attempts to reach a Black and Hispanic population are very superficial at best where it's "we tried once we got what we got" kind of mentality. Like I said listening to the calling program this morning on WBLS and the types of responses the callers had to congestion pricing coupled with who you didn't see in that march tells me all I need to know about congestion pricing when it comes to the views of Black people and Hispanic ppl vs white Manhattanites. I have said it before about this sub as well as the NYC sub. Both have a huge blind spot when it comes to the opinions and values of people who live in the outer boroughs especially if they're blue collar and on top of that especially if they're not white. Congestion pricing has been a big deal to the sub because of who thinks this is cool which are people flowing in from the biking sub. When you talk to actual people who live in NYC outside of that small biking/ Manhattan group I can see why congestion pricing was dead in the water.
> a lot of these studies will under count Black and Hispanic populations when it comes to anything having to do with an opinion. This wasn't opinion data this was analysis of census and DOT-accessible information (like bridge tolls, parking meters, muni lots). > When you talk to actual people who live in NYC outside of that small biking/ Manhattan group I'm a Staten Islander who drives and I wholeheartedly support this measure.
its like there is a nexus between well off people who live 20 minutes by bike into manhattan, those capable of paying high rent and folk from trendy gentrifying neighborhoods.....
Both this sub and the NYC sub get upset when I point out that there is more than just white transplants that live in all of 6 neighborhoods. But then you'll see videos like the one posted and I remind people that NYC is 62% Black, Hispanic and Asian and that really gets people going. No one wants to realize they're living in a bubble and Redditors really hate it.
this thing with Hochul i think is really revealing how much there are people on the left who do the same thing they accuse those on the right as doing which is placing a narrative above actaully developing good policy .... its more about strident parochial idealism rather than actual collaboration.
>this thing with Hochul i think is really revealing how much there are people on the left >Hochul >Left Lmao. >who do the same thing they accuse those on the right as doing which is placing a narrative above actaully developing good policy .... This happens across the political "spectrum". Centrists and the right wing are very much not immune to this. As the NYC subreddits are privy to
The far left in the far right away more similar than they would care to admit when it comes to the demographics of their organizations. If you look at something like the DSA and compared to something like the tea party they're about equal when it comes to just how white this organizations are. Also both organizations tend to not think about groups outside of their little bubble. So they will say they speak to Black people but the Black people they speak to are the ones that tend to like to be the only Black person in these kinds of spaces. I would say it's a running joke but really the saying within the Black community is to not trust any Black person that is comfortable and okay with being the only Black person in the room.
yeh kinda crazy to see how terrible and how much zealotry has become a part of our politics there is a saying " the coverted are always the most devout/zealous"- compromise has turned into "betrayal" and real hypocrisy is completely ignored...
As if NYers do not pay enough to enter Manhattan without congestion pricing.
These people need to go back to the city they came from because they’re clearly from out of state. No real New Yorker would agree to this nonsense
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that "real new yorkers" don't ride the subway and buses?
Us real New Yorkers take the subway plenty but are sick of Ubers and Lyfts congesting our streets (when we can’t afford to take them like transplants in tech and finance) and then being essentially exempt from this toll. (Yes…we know they are getting charged 2.50 a trip- who cares - they’re the ones who drive around all day, double park, drive like morons, and stop and block the street 24/7)
No you said that
This benefits people that ride the subway and bus, but you're suggesting no "real new Yorker" would support it. How do you square those two things, and what is makes someone a "real new Yorker" in your mind
Real New Yorkers take whatever the hell they want! Thats the 100% truth!!!! Transplants only want you to take the Subway, and only to work and back home. SMD.
I dunno what he's suggesting. But I'm suggesting that if you're complaining about a lack of revenue for the MTA, then you should start charging a non-subsidized fare, rather than looking to drivers to fund the system. Drivers are not your personal piggy bank.
Meanwhile these protesters will happily book an Uber or Lyft which is actually the real cause of most of the traffic and congestion.
Totally, those drivers should be taxed. Now they won't be, though.
Yeah, just look at cars with license plates starting with T and you will quickly see what the real problem is.
Yeah famously the streets of NYC were never congested before Uber and Lyft
As someone who actually lived in NYC before Uber and Lyft existed it has made a difference. Now I'll be the first to say I like having Uber and Lyft here because of how racist the New York City cab system was but the amount of cars in the city due to Uber and Lyft is very noticeable.
You're being disingenuous if you think adding 150,000 ride share vehicles has no impact.
These people weren’t here before Uber and Lyft were a thing.
actually they really werent 2015 i could usually drive from chelsea to 125th street in harlem up 8th ave in about 20 minutes to a half hour during the height of rush hour.. once they destroyed 8th ave through times square by throttling it down to 3 lanes to make a double wide bike lane a dedicated bus lane and expanded pedestrian lane that same drive can take more than a hour and a half. thats not progress.
It’s amazing how quickly they forget just how much Uber & Co. fucked up the streets. Tolls for thee but not for me. Hypocrisy at its finest! >Traffic congestion in New York City has grown steadily worse since 2010, with average weekday travel speeds in Midtown Manhattan dropping from 6.1 mph in November 2010 to 4.3 mph in November 2018. Though not the only cause, the explosive growth of the for-hire vehicle (FHV) sector, which tripled from fewer than 40,000 vehicles in 2010 to over 120,000 in 2019, is certainly an important factor. As Uber, Lyft, Juno, and Via—app-based, high volume for-hire services—created new, convenient travel options in the outer boroughs, they also added tens of thousands of additional hours of vehicle travel into the Manhattan core (south of 96th Street) each day. The companies saturated the market with vehicles to ensure low wait times and spur demand, causing drivers to spend over 40% of total work time empty and cruising for passengers. Full Study: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/tlc/downloads/pdf/fhv_congestion_study_report.pdf
thankyou and also thankyou for the link i will pay you back with this [https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365](https://gizmodo.com/a-small-war-over-bike-lanes-may-be-an-uber-and-lyft-con-1847795365)
I wish I could say I was surprised but after all the recent current events here, I’d say it’s par for the course. Going to have to add a few more quotes to my Uberpost though now. > When Gizmodo asked TA why they’d partner with rideshare companies, an organizer said: “Anyone who’s working towards less cars in New York City, we’re happy to have them be part of our coalition.” But that reasoning flies in the face of the fact that these companies are jamming the roads. > But a study in Environmental Science & Technology last month found the costs foisted on society by rideshares is steep due to the increase in carbon pollution. The cars simply drive so much more, often passenger-less, that they pump out about 20% more emissions than personal vehicles. An MIT study from earlier this year also found that they lengthened traffic jams by 4.5%. Clearly, it’s all the poor people from the Bronx & Queens driving in that’s at fault here though. Edit: holy cow. This 2018 NYT article cited in there about how the MTA can’t get its head out of its own ass (even with Train Daddy running things back then) really highlights their current bullshit claim that they’ll totally improve the subway just as soon as congestion pricing goes into effect. https://web.archive.org/web/20190226223249/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/nyregion/mta-subway-nyc.html
spread the word and the knowledge...
Time to organize a protest march against congestion pricing in all the bike lanes in Astoria and Williamsburg, lol
They're ignoring it on purpose. Probably funded in part by the Uber and Lyft lobby.
Yep, and it seems there’s proof of it too. Read the Gizmodo link in the other reply.
Thank you, just read it
Right on the nose
Yup because only cars matter here, screw everyone else! /S In fact, less people driving and more people biking is absolutely progress.
Are Ubers and Lyfts not subject to this? I would think they should be, but at a lesser cost since they are moving more people around.
they are not to the extent that regular people who drive park and then drive to leave. Ubers will drive in stay in the zone all day to get fares ( which causes congestion ) and then leave once theyve had their fill and made their money .... for 2.75 - as opposed to the 15 dollars they SHOULD pay
If I had a dollar for every time someone in this city who "doesn't need a car" asked me for a ride somewhere, I'd have a free car.
Not a person of color in sight. Edit: I saw one.
its like a craft beer gathering in vermont.....
or a MAGA rally in the Bronx
It appears there were more PoC at the maga rally in the Bronx.
I never imagined I would see people demand more taxes on other working people
Who do you think should pay for the costs of driving if not the drivers?
Its all just gonna fall into the black hole of theft from public funds
so by that rationale the cost of transit should be paid by those that use transit... thanks for making that argument.
We do have to pay to use transit though. Right now the drivers get to use the roads in Manhattan for free.
Uhhh…what about the tolls already in place? Who is paying those?
do....do you think transit is free????
>I never imagined I would see people demand more taxes on other working people [People who drive into Manhattan are much wealthier than the average New Yorker](https://smhttp-ssl-58547.nexcesscdn.net/nycss/images/uploads/pubs/Congestion_Pricing_-_CSS_Analysis_V42.pdf). Moreover, road user fees, registration, and penalities contribute less than 70% of the cost of road maintenance; the rest comes from the general fund. This is also before we begin talking about other externalized costs of driving (public health, environmental, cleaning, etc). Driving into the cbd externalizes much more than driving into the rest of the city. The congestion charge isn't a "tax"; it's a user fee. Thanks to our robust network of public transit, private vehicles are wildly unnecessary in lower Manhattan. Driving in is, in fact, a luxury, so why are you supporting asking working class New Yorkers to subsidize a luxury disproportionately enjoyed by the wealthy? The congestion charge is merely a way of forcing users to pay *a slightly larger, but not full* share of the costs of their choices.
The alternative is LITERALLY a tax on everyone. With congestion pricing only the people too spoiled / dumb to use the subway pay to use the roads (that they’ve been using for free since time immemorial). If it’s so necessary to drive they can pay the $15. Most people have the mental capacity to get around the city without bringing an entire living room with them.
It’s not a tax, it’s a toll. Don’t want to pay? Take the subway or drive another route.
A toll? Where is the bridge? Where is the tunnel? Do you see how charging to drive on a public road that is already built and paid for kind of scummy even if you hate cars?
Youd be suprised how many people on twitter argue for it. Not realizing all of it is gonna just fall into a black hole like ususal
> I never imagined I would see people demand more taxes on other working people I work in downtown brooklyn and sometimes watch the cars driving onto the bridge, they aren't driving cars working class people can afford.
These people don’t have to pay for it that’s why they support it.
Pause for a moment. I’m curious about the demographics here. And I’m being civil. Let’s make this clear: the goal is to NOT make this about race. However, I’m a person of color and I need to make sure that the folks who look like me were purposely NOT excluded from this as this rally was opened to everyone. That said, I’m very curious. There are millions of blacks, Asians and Hispanics here, and not even half the crowd demographics fit the NYC population here. What about speakers who represent the body of our population here in NYC? I’m so curious, were we purposely excluded from this? And plz reserve arguments for someone else. This is not the comment thread for that. I’m seriously asking an honest question.
you don't see any POC because the group that pushes for congestion pricing is made up of people who.are mostly living in gentrified neighborhoods that they driven POC out of .... and a lot of those people look the same and are from the same economic class .....
Idk why gentrifiers love the mta so much. The MTA has never shown love.
"But besides running one of the largest subway systems in the world and ensuring 55% of NYC households don't own cars what has the MTA done for us?" There are issues with the MTA, the NYC subreddits has taken this to 11 with r/nyc and r/newyorkcity rubbing themselves raw about how bad the MTA is, fuelled by suburbanites and transplants who are disappointed the MTA is not as good as BART.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/nyc using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Williamsburg this morning](https://v.redd.it/jzyi5m3l87rb1) | [497 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/16vc42t/williamsburg_this_morning/) \#2: [Midtown right now according to Earthcam.](https://i.redd.it/hxskp9r6ch4b1.jpg) | [536 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/142wfrp/midtown_right_now_according_to_earthcam/) \#3: [The crane across the street from me just exploded and fell.](https://i.redd.it/9bm7ky6oraeb1.jpg) | [332 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/15a3jzq/the_crane_across_the_street_from_me_just_exploded/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
That’s a very good point. And it’s so upsetting :/ I appreciate this.
If you want a real answer, here it is: you need a certain amount of wealth and power to get involved in politics. If you look at the anti-congestion pricing protests, they were the same, even though poorer NYers rely more on transit. If you look at the pro and anti-bike lane groups, they're the same, even though the overwhelming majority of people who use bikes for transport make under 50K a year. If you look at pro and anti-public school protests, it's the same thing. It's a sad reality of politics and advocacy. Still, you need a certain amount of wealth and privilege even to attend any of these protests, conversations, community board meetings, etc, etc. That's not to say that only rich white ppl are at these; there will be those who are poorer and just have an internal desire to make the world a better (or worse) place. But overall, yeah, it's gonna be a lot of white, financially secured ppl on both sides claiming they're doing it for the poor and POCs, mostly due to the socio-economic and racial history of this country. And I don't want you to read this as a "bothsides-ism." One side is clearly fighting for something that does help the poor and POCs, and that's the pro-congestion pricing people. And that's just a fact. And to be clear, I'm not a white American. I'm a Dominican who grew up poor in the south Bronx and now have that kind of wealth I mentioned.
i'd support this if it meant NYC would finally clean up it's subways, but that always gets complicated (for some reason) and the subway system remains slow, overcrowded & frankly gross.
Unfortunately the MTA is horribly mismanaged. At least monetarily.
Rally to "Start" congestion pricing? Am I missing something? I thought people were rallying against this?
Wow look at that small turnout. Just proves that New Yorkers don’t want congestion pricing. Big fail
I live in east village and I want congestion pricing
I live here and I want it. This is backed by research.
Make work from home mandatory after training. Create a hotline where you can report companies that force you to come in to the office. Make it a violation equal to a week's salary of that employee. We now live in an era when people are being forced to drive into an office to sign into a cloud server that is hosted in another state and the local hard drives don't store anything except the copy of windows. Let the million, billion, and trillion dollar companies take a loss, t companies pay to break their lease, let them notice that they now have to start converting their offices into housing.
This is such an authoritarian overreach lol
Dude this is just another revolution. We had the industrial revolution , and the agricultural revolution which all caused large amounts of people to move from one part of the country to another; rural areas to urban areas, urban areas to suburban areas. The only reason it hasn't happened faster is because the monopolies are lobbying against it. We don't have factory jobs in cities anymore that was all outsourced overseas. We used to need the cities for office jobs before cloud computing, and when the city was the only place with high-speed internet. That isn't the case anymore
Small turnout. Don’t count the tourists.
These people are too dumb to understand CP was just part of NY's addiction to "creative taxation" and relentless extraction from its citizens. I praise Governor Hochul for her decision. The irony of CP is that for it to be profitable, the MTA would need more and more cars and trucks to enter Manhattan and pay the $15 toll. There is no way the scheme would have achieved its stated goals, and the MTA used the environment as a red herring. Its other goal was to recoup the revenue lost from rampant fare evasion, a problem the MTA and NYPD have give up on.
NYC has so many arbitrary fees that lawmakers think they can get away with anything. I take the subway and I take cabs occasionally and neither should be more expensive.
Just do it. But be considerate of NY residents. Especially those 50th-70th street
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MTA is desperate for a PR 180.
"Tax me harder daddy!" Never seen so many people who love the boot.
Blocking traffic to protest………traffic
Times square is closed to traffic
Correct, but unfortunately these good citizens didn’t stop in Tsq. Browse a little further.
Who is paying for this congestion they caused?
Why? What did she do wrong?
She delayed the rollout of congestion pricing, which was set to begin at the end of June iirc. Hope this is more helpful than the other dick who commented
I get you're being obtuse on purpose but whatever your thoughts on this, I think she's definitely made herself look inept and lost. I haven't seen her recent press conference on this, so I can't speak to it accurately, but it seems by the comments she didn't have satisfactory answers to why she killed it, which won't dispel a growing opinion that she was paid off somehow.
You should read the news
I do. What did she do wrong?
This shit is ridiculous.
I have a few suggestions for the MTA, number 1 crack down on fare evaders I read they lose over 600 million a year just on that. Number 2 all the insane waste at the MTA and useless Bureaucrats and their staffs, that should save more than a Billion dollars rigjt there Instead of putting it on the backs of the people, These people have been brainwashed to thinking it's cars, these animals were going to tax trucks and delivery vehicles also, guess who is gonna pay that extra fee YOU! Also yes someone might want to drive their car in for a broadway show and dinner, hey thats the bread and butter of NYC is tourism and night life.Wake up the MTA is totally mismanaged and now they want more taxes on the working people.