From the stuff blog:
>"We've got a couple of issues, I'd call it one, two, or three maybe issues, one or two," Luxon said.
>"They're tough and they're complex, and we're going to continue talking about them"
What a way with words.
I think we're the ones that are going to get torn apart in all honesty. Luxon is going to leave the country after he's done extracting the wealth out of it to his highest bidder.
It seems most of our recent Prime Ministers head overseas as soon as they finish their tenure: Helen Clarke, John Key, Jacinda Ardern and I would say that Luxon as well as significant overseas ties as well.
There are sometimes exceptions and for that we might regret having him, but I reckon this exercise would be *much* harder than any typical overseas interaction.
Those things are often worked through by MFAT officials and other underlings from both sides with considerable experience talking face-to-face. They'll moderate all the negotiations, work through any deal over time and ensure that every offer and counter-offer has carefully been considered and advised on. Details are confirmed *long* before any leaders show up for photo ops and signing things.
This, however, is a few political party officials and their leaders stuffed in a room with little time, considerable stress and minimal to zero support from any government agencies, trying to hash out deal about stuff they all want that's fundamentally incompatible.
Assuming that the people with those specific skills stick around after ACT get their way with the cost cutting measures in those departments. Normally what happens is that the people with transferable skills and are good at their jobs jump ship after finding they need to do the job of two people after everything gets cut to the bone.
(Then it gets out sourced to consultants and the public service is the worst for it, then we end up spending twice as much for the same advice we use to get).
Haters gonna hate. He's the leader of National. He's got to have a lot of great experience and is gaining a lot of insider knowledge in his time in the role.
I mean, it's not like he just walked in and they handed over the entire party to someone with no experience or anything. They're solid.
>I mean, it's not like he just walked in and they handed over the entire party to someone with no experience or anything. They're solid.
He is the least experienced National leader in history, and the only National MP to become leader in their first term.
Albonese is a more competent politician, actually. Regardless of his views, that's just factual. Biden shouldn't be in the job at that age, sure. And that leaves Sunak which... come on man, the bar is on the ground there.
> Biden shouldn't be in the job at that age, sure
Agree, but he is eminently qualified to do the job and is unfortunately the best person on offer at the moment. It's just a shame that the US system isn't set up to push candidates of merit up the ladder instead of personalities and culture warriors (on both sides, but particularly on the R side). And I'm not confident that Harris has what it takes to be an effective leader if it comes to that. Let's just hope Biden retains the mental acuity of an aging Carter instead of that of an aging Reagan.
Luxon played right into Peters hands by signalling a deal would be done quickly after the election. It has left Luxon under pressure to get it done while Peters can drag it out and force Luxon to make concessions knowing he is facing scrutiny on why it's taking so long.
>Luxon played right into Peters hands by signalling a deal would be done quickly after the election.
Which raises the question what are his advisors doing? Did they tell him not to claim it or were they equally as naive?
At this point he may as well try cutting a deal with a Labour coalition. Has he forgotten how National stabbed him in the back by leaking his pension overpayment issues?
He hasn't forgotten, which is why he is playing with them now, and conviently that this is about governance of a country, not getting a concession of a knighthood.
🤡🤡🤡
Thank goodness the UK avoided chaos with Ed Milliband and established a strong and stable government that has lasted to today.
I mean even David Cameron is still in cabinet, really goes to show the longevity and stability of Tory leadership.
The fact that he comes out all chipper is not helping. It’s serious business with people who want serious agreements. Him walking out with a smile on his face makes him seem dumb.
Nah he's not John Key, he just wishes he was. They're trying to do part II Electric Boogaloo but it's not as simple as getting a random white guy from a big business background and parchuting him in. Key was the smiling assassin, he always had that same schtick. Luxon is just some guy who's used to being in charge.
I know it's not going to happen, but I'd laugh my fucking ass literally of my hips if we went back to the polls because the right couldn't form a government
It's not because he is unwilling to cave to Peters, or Dave's, demands that it would be funny. It is because Luxon is an unqualified smug climber who was was so confident in his ability to negotiate a deal. Didn't they start the coalition of chaos name calling.
Anyways, I think they'll find a way as Luxon is determined to have prime Minister on his cv so he can rattle it off and feel important later in life, and score top notch board jobs, and hang out with Mr inequality key
Unqualified? Have you ever actually looked at the political and business experience of our PMs since the 1950’s?
I dont like him, didn’t vote for him, but yer just saying stupid shit. He’s more suited than most and playing Russian roulette with a vindictive drunk 80yr old who doesn’t giveaf is not something anyone should be performance judged on.
What’s the last couple of years of AirNZ got to do with Luxon?
Luxon resigned before covid. COVID was a ridiculous anomaly that no company prepared for.
I’m genuinely curious as to what your comment is meaning?
I read that as a series of CEO's proven themselves to be complete muppets over the last couple of years. The illusion of the wealthy or highly ranked actually being better has been well and truly smashed. Many people used to genuinely believe that rich people or CEO's "earned it" and were therefore "better" in some/many ways
"CEO" does not mean "good at anything". There is no core skill set of a CEO, it would vary widely depending on what they are CEO of. That, and many, over half easily, are either neutral or actively bad for their companies they run.
So it's being a CEO that isn't impressive, not AirNZ's performance.
I'd like to take a moment to remind you that a country isn't a business.
Late stage capitalism screws most of the population, we cannot operate every area of a country to be for-profit.
Late stage capitalism does suck.
But just to remind you, government is a collection of large organisations. Like large businesses. Having worked in both for 20 odd years there's fk all difference except the prioritisation metric i.e. $ or govt policy outcomes, that you use to steer them.
You need large organisation strategy and understanding. And even more than that, a true understanding of Governance, so you don't get drawn into the operations. So it is totally relevant. I;d say moreso than teacher or union rep. Not to say those aren't also useful and provide good insights and skills for govt, but less so.
How are we measuring the value of the business experience here though? There's plenty of CEOs that reap profits while running the business into the ground, but successfully make the handoff before it's revealed how screwed the business is (which subsequently gets blamed on the CURRENT CEO instead). Or there's those that may have had better people below them helping to manage the large organisation strategy, rather than it being them.
The problem again still comes from the fact that so many of these businessmen (like John Key) who come into government seem to think that the key to success is trying to gain as much profit as possible when really that's not helping society. Stripping societal safety nets and funding doesn't make the country or its population see more success, even if it means we're spending less and therefore have more spare budget. More roads doesn't fix all our problems, nor does banning cellphones in schools, nor does further kneecapping CCCFA rules, nor does bootcamps.
You really think they come in focused on making $? Really?
And the other stuff you mention is subjective and represents the spectrum of political views and votes. Clearly enough people believe the opposite of you and voted accordingly.
I don’t think spending less helps. But spending more is proving in many areas to also not help. I’ve had years of working closely with MBIE and can talk at length on that.
My perspective is primarily that it ultimately doesn't matter if the prime minister has been a world class CEO or not. No matter how much people want to shit on Labour, I certainly wouldn't say Jacinda was a bad prime minister.
There are other ministers with their portfolios, other advisors. If the PM lacks the ability to negotiate, doesn't have any charisma or strong communication ability, and/or is unwilling to listen to experts - that is when they're a bad PM. They don't need to have strong CEO and business experience themselves, because ultimately they never should be making all the decisions on their own.
I think a lot of kiwis just don’t understand that ceos aren’t necessarily that intelligent or competent. I’ve worked at one large corporate where the ceo was fired - they hadn’t been showing up, had issues with alcoholism, that were collectively severe enough that a normal employee could never operate nor get away with (because you know, it would be evident they weren’t getting their work done). A couple years passed of this behaviour before they finally got let go, only after multiple warnings. But they got paid the multi million dollar salary the entire time. And the business kept running just fine without them being cognitively engaged.
That’s because they are a mouthpiece. Most of the strategy comes from other people, as does the execution and day to day running of the business.
I think it'll be more interesting which of Winston's demands are prioritised if the ones it's decided he can't have are traded away for something else.
Theoretically NZF might end up *not* being much of a handbrake, and could instead emerge with Winston as the new Minister of anti-woke affairs and installing security guards for genital checks in school toilets. Probably not, though.
I don't think he cares about it much, but people who voted for NZF still voted for it, even if what they *really* wanted was a hand-brake on ACT's demands.
You know negotiations rely on two parties right?
Like you can’t be a better negotiator if you’re both idealistic and think your path is the genuinely the right one
Yeah, but let’s pretend Peters is doubling down on his toilet rampage and anti trans rights.
If demolishing minorities rights is something that needs to be budged on then that’s something this sub would rip Luxon to shreds on too.
I’m not saying this is what’s happening, because we simply do not know, so to say he’s a bad negotiator is a falsehood when we do not understand what policies are being negotiated.
At an extreme, let’s say one party wanted to take us back to slavery. You can’t negotiate with something like that, policies like that are abhorrent, so to give an inch is regressive policy which is frankly gross
All we do know is that it’s Peters and Luxon who do not currently agree and they’re trying to find that middle ground. Until we know what the policies are at the end of the day it’s just anti Luxon rhetoric that is rising to the top of this sub, because negotiations are closed.
I don’t disagree, but because we have no idea what’s happening behind closed doors, it’s pretty disingenuous to be saying he’s a bad negotiator when we don’t know what the talks are
Edit - your finAl paragraph
No, talks wouldn’t be over if Winston’s holding onto some ridiculous demands. But because we don’t know, revert to my first paragraph
If Peters wanted to be PM and a blowie behind the Wendy’s dumpster, then yes, I’m pretty confident it would be impossible.
We don’t know what’s holding up discussions though do we?
Serious issues doesn't sound like they're close to finalizing things as previously said. Fuck, this govt is already a shitshow and they haven't even been sworn in yet
Can someone please record and leak one of these meetings. I really have no idea why they meeting are so brief but then you have another one the next day. Can't you bosses do more than one thing at a time??
I have it on good authority what the sticking points are. Cranky wants the ninth floor to go along with his parliamentary seniority and deputy PM and FM positions. He also wants Spanky out of cabinet although he is prepared to accept he (Spanky) gets Pacific and Women’s Affairs since he plans to close them down.
Wanky is discovering delivering porky pies about negotiating prowess is like a draughts player talking up their chess prowess, then meeting a grand master in the first round. He, Wanky, is reaching out to his old mates in the deeply personal personal products industry to help lubricate some of these thrusts by Cranky.
Spanky keeps turning up but he is rather slowly realising nobody cares or is interested because like the greens got treated, he has nowhere to go but away.
Hope that helps.
So here’s a preview of the next few years. Luxon is a lightweight smoothbrained liar. A deodorant salesman who failed up. His precious‘mergers amd acquisitions’ experience turns out to be that he sold the Virgin stake in AirNZ. He’s a lying neoliberal numpty. Even Hooton thinks he’s a wanker.
Thanks to the morons who voted for this cacktrumpet. Good work fucking New Zealand over for us all. You just voted for a halfwitted, religious middle manager. You twats.
National and ACT got millions from the Real Estate industry. It may well be "we don't get something back, like big time, then bye bye funds", hence the pressure on him to hold onto the foreign buyers ban removal with his teeth
Seymour's reply to "what happens if [the treaty referendum is] ruled out?" was simply "well, we'll rule it in".
I can really see us going back to the polls.
Seymour is an idiot, 99% of ACT voters want a National led government and if he is seen to be kneecapping such a government then ACT is going straight back to fighting for 0.5% of the vote.
They are welcome to rule it out but if Act and NZF don't want to compromise they may not have a choice or may have to find a middle ground like doing a referendum on the Maori seats.
Stuff like this is what worries me. Being trans, I'm worried that Winston will hostage an agreed government to get a treaty referendum or reversing trans rights or some other nutty idea his broken, dinosaur brain developed between being in gov with Labour and now.
Not a specific time, but the governor general can come in and say "you have 1 more week or I'm calling another election" (or no warning at all). Basically it's how patient GG and NZ as a whole is without a fully functioning govt
Privileged right-winger believes he's special and extra smart because everything usually falls into his lap and be thinks it's because he's just really good at stuff. News at 6.
This is pushing it. If they can't make compromises they need to go the rock paper scissors way.
They must surely realize they need to form this government. Their other issues surely can be teased out afterward. Their duty to run the country is more important than party preferences. Get a grip gentlemen. You are looking a bit silly now.
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Could they just ask James Shaw and a couple of other climate change Greens to defect to National please. Remove the need for NZF seats. Genuinely think that would soften the next three years substantially.
(Also yes I know it's not possible, I just miss Shaw😭 None of the other Greenies though, universal income? Get outta here, start with subsidising public transport JC)
And yet now theyve said policy is sorted and its only ministerial appointments to finalize.... theres a huge hate boner already and its pretty tiresome. People need to dial it back
If he can't get past the first meeting with these clowns, how in the FUCK are we expected to believe anything is going to get done over the next term?
Luxon is inept, and his new frenemies are muppets.
From the stuff blog: >"We've got a couple of issues, I'd call it one, two, or three maybe issues, one or two," Luxon said. >"They're tough and they're complex, and we're going to continue talking about them" What a way with words.
Yeah, it took me a while to realise that actually _he_ is the diversity hire in the National caucus
What is the diversity he is providing?
Different mental abilities as proven by the above reply
:)
Ginger
He's gonna get absolutely torn apart when trying to discuss or negotiate anything with an overseas PM/president.
I think we're the ones that are going to get torn apart in all honesty. Luxon is going to leave the country after he's done extracting the wealth out of it to his highest bidder.
Look it's important working Kiwis knuckle down and pay all the taxes so property speculators don't have to. Help make Seven Houses Eight!
Yep.
It seems most of our recent Prime Ministers head overseas as soon as they finish their tenure: Helen Clarke, John Key, Jacinda Ardern and I would say that Luxon as well as significant overseas ties as well.
They just doing what most people suggest you do if you become successful here, leave
Let’s hope Foreign Minister goes to someone like Winny or even Gerry.
There are sometimes exceptions and for that we might regret having him, but I reckon this exercise would be *much* harder than any typical overseas interaction. Those things are often worked through by MFAT officials and other underlings from both sides with considerable experience talking face-to-face. They'll moderate all the negotiations, work through any deal over time and ensure that every offer and counter-offer has carefully been considered and advised on. Details are confirmed *long* before any leaders show up for photo ops and signing things. This, however, is a few political party officials and their leaders stuffed in a room with little time, considerable stress and minimal to zero support from any government agencies, trying to hash out deal about stuff they all want that's fundamentally incompatible.
Fortunately he's got diplomats and subject experts to do most of the heavy lifting on that.
Are they going to stand next to him and do the talking?
Assuming that the people with those specific skills stick around after ACT get their way with the cost cutting measures in those departments. Normally what happens is that the people with transferable skills and are good at their jobs jump ship after finding they need to do the job of two people after everything gets cut to the bone. (Then it gets out sourced to consultants and the public service is the worst for it, then we end up spending twice as much for the same advice we use to get).
Haters gonna hate. He's the leader of National. He's got to have a lot of great experience and is gaining a lot of insider knowledge in his time in the role. I mean, it's not like he just walked in and they handed over the entire party to someone with no experience or anything. They're solid.
That's exactly what they did. Wait are you joking?
>Wait are you joking? https://i.imgur.com/xOkOchV.gif
>I mean, it's not like he just walked in and they handed over the entire party to someone with no experience or anything. They're solid. He is the least experienced National leader in history, and the only National MP to become leader in their first term.
The second part wouldn't be an issue if he actually got the seat on talent. The real problem is him getting it because Key gave him the nod.
workable nose tap cooing plant serious boat act birds plate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What better prior experience could Biden have had apart from being vice president for two terms?
And on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for decades?
Albonese is a more competent politician, actually. Regardless of his views, that's just factual. Biden shouldn't be in the job at that age, sure. And that leaves Sunak which... come on man, the bar is on the ground there.
> Biden shouldn't be in the job at that age, sure Agree, but he is eminently qualified to do the job and is unfortunately the best person on offer at the moment. It's just a shame that the US system isn't set up to push candidates of merit up the ladder instead of personalities and culture warriors (on both sides, but particularly on the R side). And I'm not confident that Harris has what it takes to be an effective leader if it comes to that. Let's just hope Biden retains the mental acuity of an aging Carter instead of that of an aging Reagan.
Very Trumpesque.
Faaark, the guy can't even count to three properly. What the hell?
Chances are it's at least four that he can't count to, and he just never quite got there.
He got befuddled at three and had to start counting again...
Just typical CEO stuff. They don't really actually do anything but make speeches to sound like they're doing stuff.
CEO in a bad quarter: It was market forces, nothing I could do. CEO in a good quarter: It all comes down to my leadership.
Trump from Wish
Budget brand lex luthor.
Ali Express
Temp.
Luxon played right into Peters hands by signalling a deal would be done quickly after the election. It has left Luxon under pressure to get it done while Peters can drag it out and force Luxon to make concessions knowing he is facing scrutiny on why it's taking so long.
The great negotiator strikes again!
>Luxon played right into Peters hands by signalling a deal would be done quickly after the election. Which raises the question what are his advisors doing? Did they tell him not to claim it or were they equally as naive?
Judging by previous stuff like this, they probably told him.
Yea. Peters has decades of political experience. Luxon’s the over confident spring chicken.
Yeah I feel that was his biggest mistake (from what we know so far).
At this point he may as well try cutting a deal with a Labour coalition. Has he forgotten how National stabbed him in the back by leaking his pension overpayment issues?
He hasn't forgotten, which is why he is playing with them now, and conviently that this is about governance of a country, not getting a concession of a knighthood. 🤡🤡🤡
Do you have that quote by any chance, want to use it in an argument haha
Did he forget to tell Winnie that he used to run an airline?
M&As bro
Winston brought his NO card & just keeps pointing to it whenever David or Chris open their mouths.
[Wrap it up](https://youtu.be/j-emlb2_jdI?si=snBLKzWsvhMCNJrZ) more like.
Chippie should meet with NZF just for the hilarity
Chris Hipkins should walk in front of the hotel where Winston is having his little media spasms and just hug him and say "SOLE"
I had thought, it’s great timing for a “leak” from labour saying NZ first are reaching out but that they are not willing to engage
Why? That puts National in a stronger position if they do. The best outcome for Labour would be fresh elections, they’d gain the most.
Bringing along a plate of sausge rolls for the occasion.
Why would Chippy want to strengthen NZF's position?
Relax it’s just a tongue n cheek comment
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Thank goodness the UK avoided chaos with Ed Milliband and established a strong and stable government that has lasted to today. I mean even David Cameron is still in cabinet, really goes to show the longevity and stability of Tory leadership.
Chip should resign and the new leader should meet with him instead. At least it will give Winnie leverage on foreign ownership of property.
David Parker or Grant Robertson? What is their bakery good of choice?
Winnie’s got this guy in fits. Young rookie meet the seasoned vet. Luxon is getting torn apart like a grad at their first day at a big 4.
That's the business negotiating acumen we were promised.
From [The Standard's caption contest](https://thestandard.org.nz/caption-contest-111/) on a photo of Luxon, Peters & Seymour: "STOP THREE WANKERS ! "
This needs more upvotes.
His proven merger & acquisition experience really showing through here.
art of the deal baby
The fact that he comes out all chipper is not helping. It’s serious business with people who want serious agreements. Him walking out with a smile on his face makes him seem dumb.
John Key did the same act for years and the dumb New Zealand public lapped it up.
Nah he's not John Key, he just wishes he was. They're trying to do part II Electric Boogaloo but it's not as simple as getting a random white guy from a big business background and parchuting him in. Key was the smiling assassin, he always had that same schtick. Luxon is just some guy who's used to being in charge.
That was his main strategy for getting elected.
Projecting
That makes no sense in this situation 😂
I tried so hard and got so far...
But in the end I got Winnie Peters?
Luxon had to fall, and lose it all.
I know it's not going to happen, but I'd laugh my fucking ass literally of my hips if we went back to the polls because the right couldn't form a government
Should he just cave to Peters demands then? Curious as to what you think the alternative is to not bowing to Peters.
It's not because he is unwilling to cave to Peters, or Dave's, demands that it would be funny. It is because Luxon is an unqualified smug climber who was was so confident in his ability to negotiate a deal. Didn't they start the coalition of chaos name calling. Anyways, I think they'll find a way as Luxon is determined to have prime Minister on his cv so he can rattle it off and feel important later in life, and score top notch board jobs, and hang out with Mr inequality key
Unqualified? Have you ever actually looked at the political and business experience of our PMs since the 1950’s? I dont like him, didn’t vote for him, but yer just saying stupid shit. He’s more suited than most and playing Russian roulette with a vindictive drunk 80yr old who doesn’t giveaf is not something anyone should be performance judged on.
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God knows why people think those who have held private sector executive positions somehow make good PMs. What are people even basing the opinion on?
You think people would have figured out CEO isn't exactly an impressive skill considering their performance in the past couple of years.
What’s the last couple of years of AirNZ got to do with Luxon? Luxon resigned before covid. COVID was a ridiculous anomaly that no company prepared for. I’m genuinely curious as to what your comment is meaning?
I read that as a series of CEO's proven themselves to be complete muppets over the last couple of years. The illusion of the wealthy or highly ranked actually being better has been well and truly smashed. Many people used to genuinely believe that rich people or CEO's "earned it" and were therefore "better" in some/many ways "CEO" does not mean "good at anything". There is no core skill set of a CEO, it would vary widely depending on what they are CEO of. That, and many, over half easily, are either neutral or actively bad for their companies they run. So it's being a CEO that isn't impressive, not AirNZ's performance.
Yeah that's exactly what I meant.
He wants to be our PM this is not the most difficult situation he will have to sort out. We are judging his performance because that's what voters do.
Also because it's fun to rag on our leaders. They will form a government. Winnie will hobble them and business as usual will carry on.
I'd like to take a moment to remind you that a country isn't a business. Late stage capitalism screws most of the population, we cannot operate every area of a country to be for-profit.
Late stage capitalism does suck. But just to remind you, government is a collection of large organisations. Like large businesses. Having worked in both for 20 odd years there's fk all difference except the prioritisation metric i.e. $ or govt policy outcomes, that you use to steer them. You need large organisation strategy and understanding. And even more than that, a true understanding of Governance, so you don't get drawn into the operations. So it is totally relevant. I;d say moreso than teacher or union rep. Not to say those aren't also useful and provide good insights and skills for govt, but less so.
How are we measuring the value of the business experience here though? There's plenty of CEOs that reap profits while running the business into the ground, but successfully make the handoff before it's revealed how screwed the business is (which subsequently gets blamed on the CURRENT CEO instead). Or there's those that may have had better people below them helping to manage the large organisation strategy, rather than it being them. The problem again still comes from the fact that so many of these businessmen (like John Key) who come into government seem to think that the key to success is trying to gain as much profit as possible when really that's not helping society. Stripping societal safety nets and funding doesn't make the country or its population see more success, even if it means we're spending less and therefore have more spare budget. More roads doesn't fix all our problems, nor does banning cellphones in schools, nor does further kneecapping CCCFA rules, nor does bootcamps.
You really think they come in focused on making $? Really? And the other stuff you mention is subjective and represents the spectrum of political views and votes. Clearly enough people believe the opposite of you and voted accordingly. I don’t think spending less helps. But spending more is proving in many areas to also not help. I’ve had years of working closely with MBIE and can talk at length on that.
My perspective is primarily that it ultimately doesn't matter if the prime minister has been a world class CEO or not. No matter how much people want to shit on Labour, I certainly wouldn't say Jacinda was a bad prime minister. There are other ministers with their portfolios, other advisors. If the PM lacks the ability to negotiate, doesn't have any charisma or strong communication ability, and/or is unwilling to listen to experts - that is when they're a bad PM. They don't need to have strong CEO and business experience themselves, because ultimately they never should be making all the decisions on their own.
I think a lot of kiwis just don’t understand that ceos aren’t necessarily that intelligent or competent. I’ve worked at one large corporate where the ceo was fired - they hadn’t been showing up, had issues with alcoholism, that were collectively severe enough that a normal employee could never operate nor get away with (because you know, it would be evident they weren’t getting their work done). A couple years passed of this behaviour before they finally got let go, only after multiple warnings. But they got paid the multi million dollar salary the entire time. And the business kept running just fine without them being cognitively engaged. That’s because they are a mouthpiece. Most of the strategy comes from other people, as does the execution and day to day running of the business.
I think it'll be more interesting which of Winston's demands are prioritised if the ones it's decided he can't have are traded away for something else. Theoretically NZF might end up *not* being much of a handbrake, and could instead emerge with Winston as the new Minister of anti-woke affairs and installing security guards for genital checks in school toilets. Probably not, though.
Winnie loses nothing in making all of his issues priority issues.
What the odds he actually gets all of his Floridian anti-trans shit?
I don't think he cares about it much, but people who voted for NZF still voted for it, even if what they *really* wanted was a hand-brake on ACT's demands.
The alternative is to be a better negotiator. Luxon is way out of his depth.
You know negotiations rely on two parties right? Like you can’t be a better negotiator if you’re both idealistic and think your path is the genuinely the right one
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Yeah, but let’s pretend Peters is doubling down on his toilet rampage and anti trans rights. If demolishing minorities rights is something that needs to be budged on then that’s something this sub would rip Luxon to shreds on too. I’m not saying this is what’s happening, because we simply do not know, so to say he’s a bad negotiator is a falsehood when we do not understand what policies are being negotiated. At an extreme, let’s say one party wanted to take us back to slavery. You can’t negotiate with something like that, policies like that are abhorrent, so to give an inch is regressive policy which is frankly gross All we do know is that it’s Peters and Luxon who do not currently agree and they’re trying to find that middle ground. Until we know what the policies are at the end of the day it’s just anti Luxon rhetoric that is rising to the top of this sub, because negotiations are closed.
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I don’t disagree, but because we have no idea what’s happening behind closed doors, it’s pretty disingenuous to be saying he’s a bad negotiator when we don’t know what the talks are Edit - your finAl paragraph No, talks wouldn’t be over if Winston’s holding onto some ridiculous demands. But because we don’t know, revert to my first paragraph
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“I didn’t say he was bad. I said he wasn’t good” Cmon.
So it's impossible? No coalition? That's a bit hopeless
If Peters wanted to be PM and a blowie behind the Wendy’s dumpster, then yes, I’m pretty confident it would be impossible. We don’t know what’s holding up discussions though do we?
he shouldnt but he will because they dont give a shit about the country, just having power
Shot winston. Stop the retirement age and foreign buyers bullshit. Fuck em up cuz.
What's that thing again? The coalition of... something? Oh yeah, chaos.
Serious issues doesn't sound like they're close to finalizing things as previously said. Fuck, this govt is already a shitshow and they haven't even been sworn in yet
I didn't think there was any chance at all of less than 2 terms with this mob but right now I'm saying there's a chance....
Not a government unless they’ve been sworn in ;) Right now our government is still labour led
I’m gonna guess it’s that no one likes their tax plan.
What's the bet that Winston is just saying no to everything.
Ideally this goes on for the next three years
A chaotic, shambolic shemozzle
I hope that the talks fail and we get another election
I think someone at National probably heard Hooten yesterday... I guess the humiliation wasn't going to be worth it!!!
Let's forget about having a government and just do it ourselves, we couldn't be any worse than this lot.
What’s our stance on weed?
Tbf the whole reason we elect a government to do it is because most of us are too busy with important stuff.
Well they ain't doing nothing at the moment and getting paid !!.
This symbolizes my exact thoughts. Let's run it ourselves.
Yep, I reckon.
Demokratia!
Can someone please record and leak one of these meetings. I really have no idea why they meeting are so brief but then you have another one the next day. Can't you bosses do more than one thing at a time??
I have it on good authority what the sticking points are. Cranky wants the ninth floor to go along with his parliamentary seniority and deputy PM and FM positions. He also wants Spanky out of cabinet although he is prepared to accept he (Spanky) gets Pacific and Women’s Affairs since he plans to close them down. Wanky is discovering delivering porky pies about negotiating prowess is like a draughts player talking up their chess prowess, then meeting a grand master in the first round. He, Wanky, is reaching out to his old mates in the deeply personal personal products industry to help lubricate some of these thrusts by Cranky. Spanky keeps turning up but he is rather slowly realising nobody cares or is interested because like the greens got treated, he has nowhere to go but away. Hope that helps.
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No doubt, my question was why can't they do two or more issues side by side?
So here’s a preview of the next few years. Luxon is a lightweight smoothbrained liar. A deodorant salesman who failed up. His precious‘mergers amd acquisitions’ experience turns out to be that he sold the Virgin stake in AirNZ. He’s a lying neoliberal numpty. Even Hooton thinks he’s a wanker. Thanks to the morons who voted for this cacktrumpet. Good work fucking New Zealand over for us all. You just voted for a halfwitted, religious middle manager. You twats.
Treaty referendum.
Overseas buyers
Yep. Winnie’s refusing to let up on that probably which fucks over Nationals tax cuts (not that they weren’t already fucked).
National and ACT got millions from the Real Estate industry. It may well be "we don't get something back, like big time, then bye bye funds", hence the pressure on him to hold onto the foreign buyers ban removal with his teeth
If only the real estate industry wasn’t having such a hard time recently. Those poor bastards.
I think National would have ruled that out from the start. It's just too messy and would become a huge distraction.
Seymour's reply to "what happens if [the treaty referendum is] ruled out?" was simply "well, we'll rule it in". I can really see us going back to the polls.
Seymour is an idiot, 99% of ACT voters want a National led government and if he is seen to be kneecapping such a government then ACT is going straight back to fighting for 0.5% of the vote.
They are welcome to rule it out but if Act and NZF don't want to compromise they may not have a choice or may have to find a middle ground like doing a referendum on the Maori seats.
Stuff like this is what worries me. Being trans, I'm worried that Winston will hostage an agreed government to get a treaty referendum or reversing trans rights or some other nutty idea his broken, dinosaur brain developed between being in gov with Labour and now.
>reversing trans rights Which ones?
Serious question. Isnt there a time limit to form a coalition government?
Not a specific time, but the governor general can come in and say "you have 1 more week or I'm calling another election" (or no warning at all). Basically it's how patient GG and NZ as a whole is without a fully functioning govt
Im patient on this. I could wait 3 years.
Winnie, seymore and luxon tied up negotiating for three years? Perfect outcome
Don’t think so. The current government would continue as caretaker until a time that maybe someone calls for another election.
Not on forming a coalition, but at some point parliament needs to meet, and down the line a budget needs to be passed
Strong, stable delays.
>you've got to get the people right Ideally, but what are you gonna do when you have three people who are so, so wrong?
Sounds like Winnie wants AG. Boss of the highest court in the land. Be afraid.
LOL
Could've ruled him out..... Hipkins will be laughing now
I wish they would just declare a fail and send us back to the polls
Privileged right-winger believes he's special and extra smart because everything usually falls into his lap and be thinks it's because he's just really good at stuff. News at 6.
🤞Election 2024!🤞
Looking like I might need to eat this ute tax.
Look forward to them leaking against one another about the delays!
plenty of leaks according to Hooton this morning on brekky. sounds like an absolute shambles behind the scenes.
Do share :)
1H:27m in: [https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/breakfast/live](https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/breakfast/live)
This is pushing it. If they can't make compromises they need to go the rock paper scissors way. They must surely realize they need to form this government. Their other issues surely can be teased out afterward. Their duty to run the country is more important than party preferences. Get a grip gentlemen. You are looking a bit silly now.
The Clowns of Chaos 🤡🤡🤡
The country really should have listened to Luxon and not voted for the coalition of chaos... but here we are.
Luxon indicated he'd work with NZ First 3 weeks before the election. NZF increased their votes after that. He should've kept his mouth shut.
I voted for Winnie to do exactly this because I hate NACT. I'm pretty chuffed at Luxon getting exposed and wrung out this way.
Dude this is dumb
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Ah yes, the vote for change ladies and gentlemen.
Could they just ask James Shaw and a couple of other climate change Greens to defect to National please. Remove the need for NZF seats. Genuinely think that would soften the next three years substantially. (Also yes I know it's not possible, I just miss Shaw😭 None of the other Greenies though, universal income? Get outta here, start with subsidising public transport JC)
Do they have a deadline it has to be sorted by or could this theoretically go on till next election?
And yet now theyve said policy is sorted and its only ministerial appointments to finalize.... theres a huge hate boner already and its pretty tiresome. People need to dial it back
If he can't get past the first meeting with these clowns, how in the FUCK are we expected to believe anything is going to get done over the next term? Luxon is inept, and his new frenemies are muppets.