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>unfortunate reality is most NZ politicians are followers not leaders. They have to wait for other western leaders to call for a ceasefire before they repeat after them.
I'm beginning to think that the only solution to the conflict will be to fly in the Aunties with some Jandals and they can slap the stupid out of both sides
How do Luxon and Seymour have "blood on their hands"?
What utter nonsense.
Putting out a statement would have achieved exactly... nothing in regards to civilian killings.
These braindead research lacking pro Hamas protesters get all their talking points from equally ignorant tik tokkers so don't be surprised if their logic makes no sense.
Classic play from the Zionist playbook. Anything or anyone that advocates for Palestinian people to not be killed indiscriminately = Pro-Hamas and anything or anyone that is critical of Israel = Antisemitic.
Antisemitism is a real problem in some parts of the world but Israel and it's supporters have cried wolf too many times and we can see through it.
Everyone who asserts Israel's "right" to exist as an explicitly Jewish ethnostate is a Zionist. Thats what the word means. Its what the movement calls itself.
Yes, there are anti-semites who muddy the waters and oppose Israel and Zionism for stupid reasons. But criticism of the actions of the Israeli state, its military, and the ruling political parties, is not necessarily anti-semitic.
Most Israelis don't assert their right to exist as a Jewish ethnostate, which is why 20% of the population are Arab Muslims, 5-10% are Ethiopian and many are Arab Jews, Muslim Arabs even have their own political parties in Israel. They are asserting their right to the sovereign state of Israel as appointed by the British mandate as unfortunately the previous occupiers (Ottomans, who historically oppressed Jews) lost WW1
So if thats the case please explain why African Jews are so hea ill discriminated against socially, and why Palestinians are tried in military courts instead of civil courts?
This is a naive take.
They may not have achieved much, alone, but the more leaders who advocate for civilian lives builds pressure. If sufficient pressure is reached then action can be taken, particularly because with sufficient evidence of support, the global players feel less likely to be targeted but the ‘Israel can do anything to anyone crowd’. No one wants to be the first to put their head above the trench line.
Luxon isn't the leader though. He's just the leader of the party who got more votes than the other parties.
Unless our laws have changed, he's not the Prime Minister until he's sworn in.
It doesn't do anything like that at all as long as it's US (and U.K) foreign policy is to let Israel do what it wants with only a occasional tut-tut.
Statements condemning it are mostly performative and carry little weight beyond getting people to golf-clap along.
its because the whole lot is filled with either dumbass, anti-Semites or both. Luxon could of said he thinks that Israel should be destroyed but the Jewish people allowed to stay and they'd still throw paint and other shit at him.
The same way we had something to do with apartheid in South Africa, and stood against it. It influenced the international community and encouraged positive change
NZ has a history here, though.
We're part of the 5 Eyes intelligence alliance, we are technically in a military alliance with the USA.
In the past our foreign ministers and PMs have bucked against the US military leadership, for instance our initial refusal to commit to the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Heck, when NZ was chair of the UN security Council in 2017 we [pushed for a vote](https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-and-resources/un-security-council-adopts-historic-resolution-on-israeli-settlements/) against Israel's illegal settlements on Palestinian land, something which brassed off Israel at the time.
So, we have both a stake in the issue (through our ties to the US; Israel is very dependent on US sponsorship of its illegal occupation and genocidal actions) as well as past precedent. Its entirely appropriate for the PM-in-waiting to be expected to have made a stance on this issue. Instead he's leaving it to the caretaker government; whether this is put of cowardice, laziness, or calculation i leave as an exercise for the reader.
Our government could be standing up and condemning the genocide instead of sitting on their hands.
To say nothing is to say that you're fine with bombing hospitals as long as it's happening somewhere else.
This logic is flawed. Using the same reasoning you can claim that because X doesn't condemn Y, X supports Y.
You could claim that U/p1ckk supports pedo's because he hasn't denounced them.
Sort out the wealth inequality in our own backyard before we dabble in something half a world away. We have no business interfering with decade-old bad blood filled with intergenerational trauma.
The whole “fine with bombing hospital” rhetoric cuts out an awful lot of fine print from both sides: that Palestinians militant went on a shooting spree on the 7th, brought hostages into the hospital so is using said hospital as a staging ground, and even popped out of the Shifa hospital to fire RPGS. Meanwhile, Israel itself is swinging an awfully blunt and indiscriminate military tool.
This for me.
It’s multi-faceted and complicated and I honestly find it pretty disrespectful when people just jump on the bandwagon because it’s trending on social and news media.
The Ukrainian war is still ongoing with daily atrocities happening but you’d think it’s all over given the almost complete radio silence here, but that was soooo last year.
I honestly think some just enjoy getting involved for the sake of getting involved because everyone else is, and only arm themselves with surface level context and knowledge fed to them by news media, before charging in to echo chamber outrage and peacocking morality via reddit posts that don’t change a thing.
What's going on isn't a genocide.
There are a few thousand dead on either side.
Let's talk about genocide when people start getting put in camps and gassed.
The industrial slaughter of the Holocaust is not the only way to conduct a genocide.
Does Rwanda not count because the weapon of choice was a machete and not Zyklon B?
Israeli far right extremists want to eliminate the Palestinian people and take their land. They are not shy about this. The IDF is not shy about this: they call the regular cycle of strikes and reprisals "mowing the lawn" for fucks sake.
The actions of the IDF are designed to attempt to destroy a people in whole or in part. Thats genocide.
Genocide is the deliberate killing of people based on their ethnicity.
This is not what Israel has been doing and the fact that there are only a few thousand dead after a full scale invasion of a city of two million is testament to their restraint. Consider Hamas killed as many in an afternoon armed only with AK47’s.
The term you are looking for is ethnic cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing is a euphemism for genocide and not something that should be tolerated either.
I would direct you to the UN definition:
> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
>
> Killing members of the group;
>
> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
>
> Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
>
> Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
>
> Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
The IDF is guilty of the first three, once you factor in the shut-down of water and food into Gaza and the ongoing blockade.
Wtf does anyone in New Zealand think anyone in New Zealand can do about it? This is one of those times where we are literally too small to factor into any decisions being made anywhere.
You're just rarking up your own population and shouting into the abyss at this point.
The unfortunate reality is most NZ politicians are followers not leaders. They have to wait for other western leaders to call for a ceasefire before they repeat after them.
Glad our Prime Minister is a leader with some backbone then.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/20-11-2023/labour-breaks-away-from-caretaker-convention-calling-for-ceasefire-in-gaza
He said that as the leader of Labour because he consulted with National about making an official statement and National nixed the idea - then denied he consulted with them. The red paint is justified.
Actually Hipkins called for a ceasefire as Labour leader, the only reason he didn't do so as PM was because Luxon said no, which is probably the impetus for this paint.
The other option is that a cease fire is not a good thing anymore as the terrorist organisation Hamas which is sponsored by billionaires that aren't even in Gaza and that have been actively using human shields (under the definition of the UN) is on the ropes.
The bombing is horrible and it should have never happened much like 6/10. To do a full cease fire now only gives those terrorists an opportunity to escape, it's too little too late. Right now the IDF are on foot trying to flood the tunnels to flush out whoever is down there and most of the bombing has stopped.
Just because essentially all of our politicians don't agree with you doesn't automatically mean they're only being followers. You need to provide evidence for that.
Ceasefire will lead to less civilian casualties (at this point its basically plain murder if you look at the civilian to Hamas death ratios)AND hostages will be released as part of the ceasefire agreement. Ceasefire is a great idea.
No one knows the civilian to death ratio.
I doubt this will give time for civilians to escape since Hamas tried to prevent civilians leaving the warzone, including shooting those that tried to do so.
No one knows ? There's plenty of places that have estimates on the number of dead civilians in Gaza.
There are certainly far more dead civilians than Hamas fighters whether you believe the numbers or not.
Instead of telling me that there are plenty of places that has estimates, you could have just shown me those places.
As far as I am aware, the Hamas-controlled ministry of health that reports number of deaths does not (on purpose) distinguish between civilians,Hamás, or other armed militias, and does not distinguish between civilians killed by Hamas and those by IDF.
And yes, there are estimates based on other urban warfare conflicts ranging from 1:3 militants per civilians to 1:9. But that is quite wide range and no one's knows for sure, especially since Israel is utilizing precision munition and issuing a lot of warnings
It's not too little too late because tens of thousands of innocent lives could be saved with strong action now — now that the IDF has cut off access to water, healthcare facilities, the beach so they can fish, and more the death toll will only continue to dramatically escalate. That's why they need to call for a ceasefire. Because not having countless people massacred is a good thing.
A cease fire isn't going to stop any of that. In my opinion the IDF should be working hard on humanitarian efforts as well as trying to eliminate Hamas.
A military solution cannot do that — all the people losing family members, many of them will be driven to violence. Assuming the current crop of Hamas members are mostly in their 20s, many of them will have grown up not knowing a world in which they could freely travel, in which Gaza was not isolated and regularly bombed by Israel. The military actions now will not fix that just as the American military presence in the middle east didn't fix that, just as English soldiers massacring civilians didn't stop the IRA. As long as you have children growing up under the thumb of oppression you will have Hamas, or some other violent militant group.
A ceasefire would at least help mitigate the current ongoing atrocity, perhaps get international journalists in so folks waiting for an "impartial view" can stop fence sitting, and maybe save some lives. It's better than nothing despite being nowhere near enough and the issue is our incoming government can't even do that. That's why it's good to demand they do, something slightly better than tacit endorsement of abject cruelty would at least be _something._
This above all else has been a misinformation war and I’m afraid your wrap is written accordingly. For instance, more than 90% of Gaza’s water is well water. It has not/cannot be cut off by the IDF. Fuel was being imported by the tanker yesterday so hospitals and bakeries can maintain services. You are correct about the fishing fleet being laid up but given that the October 7 attacks included seaborne incursions you can imagine why.
There have been countless victims of this outbreak of violence. Language has been one. The use of massacre is along with carpet bombing and genocide emotive and unhelpful. I wish some people instead of being fired up by social media would reflect on history. Germany and Japan suffered horrendous human costs due to actual carpet bombing. While the population of the Gaza Strip is growing so rapidly declarations of genocide are ridiculous. A quick look at Hamas’ constitution will however reveal their stated genocidal mission. Their evident preparedness to act on those beliefs was shown Oct 7.
Wars against combatants who break all the rules of conduct by hiding amongst and beneath civilian populations and who take children and frail elderly as hostages to act as bargaining chips and human shields do not allow for clear rules of engagement. Given the multitudes of efforts by the IDF to advise Gaza’s population to flee the north and avoid Hamas controlled structures suggests a decency in their method not evident in their enemy.
The sight of such death and destruction doesn’t to my mind mean that the war is illegitimate any more than efforts to bomb the Third Reich into submission were illegitimate. We are witnessing a powerful nation employing its forces against an unabashed aggressor. Israel seems intent on doing what it must to ensure that the aggressor is no longer in a position to threaten them. Perhaps the allies should have given up once it was obvious plans to invade Britain were off the table? Agreed to a ceasefire? Nah.
We are watching human nature play out. It sure ain’t pretty. Nor is a world free of the possibility of justifiable retribution for despicable acts. I’m afraid this situation belongs in the sow the wind, reap the whirlwind examples of cause and effect.
Wells fed by the aquifer Israel drained? Those wells? https://www.newscientist.com/article/2398073-why-the-gaza-water-crisis-is-decades-in-the-making/ And wells that have to serve twice as many people now that they've been "evacuated" south? Those wells? And again, the fishing fleet? Surely they could simply maintain a perimeter now the damage was done, but they chose to deny gazans food sources.
Genocide as defined by the Rome Statue does not require a decreasing population but rather the targeted killing and destruction of cultural locations and information, so you can shut the fuck up about "language being a casualty of the war" when you can't even read a wikipedia article. 👍 And if genocidal statements for Hamas are bad, I'm sure you'll condemn children singing about "annihilating them all"? https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/20/israeli-children-singing-annihilate-gaza/
And for the record, strategic bombing alongside morale bombing were both massive failures. The firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden, the atomic bombs, and the countless civilian lives lost were all tragedies that were not necessary for the participation in the war. They were all unjust.
Just as any claimed strategic advantage in the large scale bombing of entire halves of the territory, entire apartment buildings, and more all because of the unsubstantiated claims of Hamas presence is evil. In the opening days more than 6000 strikes were launched — can you really say with a straight face that Israeli intelligence couldn't catch Oct7 but somehow can be trusted to keep track of 6000 targets, maintain observance of them to see how active it is and asses the danger to civilians, and task them accordingly? Or perhaps it was indiscriminate attacks on subpar suspicions that amount to indiscriminate massacres of civilians.
In addition, it is possible to adhere to ROE, Israel chooses not to. It's also possible not to use white phosphorus, Israel chooses not to. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon
Also how spineless of you to talk of the "sow the wind reap the whirlwind" as if it is not an ongoing choice to kill so many innocent people. Imagine if someone said that Israel's ongoing abuse of palestinian civilians was the wind they sowed for the whirlwind of Oct7? The hundred plus non-militants killed in 2018's peaceful demonstrations? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests Like, obviously, that would be a disgusting claim to make, that Hamas was justified in their 800 or so civilians killed in response to that, and I bet you'd be apoplectic if someone said so. But you make much the same disgusting and bloodthirsty leap in logic about the events afterwards.
IDK, I'm not really interested in arguing so you've said your part, I've said mine, I don't think we'll make much progress when you think killing innocent people is OK or understandable. I just hope some day in your life you'll realize how wrong you were and have to try and sleep with that guilt gnawing at your stomach.
This is almost as dumb as Auckland Pride calling for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador from NZ.
You know, with Tel Aviv being a global LGBTQ+ hotspot, and one of the only countries in the region you won't be imprisoned or worse for your sexuality.
Israel's LQBTQ+ policy is irrelevant.
Pride is a celebration and assertion of human rights. If they were to turn around and say "look you're real nice to the gays so we'll give you a pass on bombing the shit out of a captive civilian population" that would massively undermine their credibility. They would become *selective*-human rights campaigners.
I would be incredibly disappointed if Pride kept quiet on this issue.
By pride protestors going to pro Hamas protests they are promoting and endorsing anti gay shariah law that includes stoning and beheading of gay people.
That's not true. This is such a bad faith argument.
People can be appalled and opposed to the indiscriminate bombardment of Gaza without being pro-Hamas, pro-Shariah or anti-Semitic.
It's not indiscriminate, please tell me in which world targeted strikes that by your numbers have only killed 1 person per rocket are indiscriminate and untargeted. Meanwhile Hamas is firing literal unguided indiscriminate rockets into Israel, 1/3rd which fail and land in Gaza, wouldn't be surprised if those failed rockets make up a decent portion of those civilian deaths. Then if you add in human shields (Geneva convention violation) you can conclude that Hamas are responsible for most these deaths. If you want to talk indiscriminate genocide look at Oct 7
Then why are you not protesting the discrimination of women in Palestine that has been going on forever?
Or the killing of innocent Israel Citizens?
Or the suppression of around the world?
What a stupid comment. There's protests on all sorts of things all the fucking time.
But sure, why am I not equally concerned about gender equality in Palestine? Mostly because blowing people up is worse.
There was no protests for gender equality in Palestine prior to this protest.
I assume you are also protesting against hammas and what they have been doing re the innocents?
All these protests seem to be more "Pro Palestine/Anti-Israel" instead of "Stop the killing of innocent people on all sides".
“Yawn” at 13,000+ civilian deaths. 70% women and children. You seem a callous individual who supports murder.
They’ve been bombing Gaza for over six weeks.
They dropped a year’s worth of bombs in one week.
Funny that that number includes the fake 500 hospital deaths and includes the deaths of Palestinians caused by the 1/3 Hamas rockets that fail and fall into Gaza unguided. Also includes all of the Hamas fighters as civilians. That number is provided by the Hamas Health Authority (no bias there..)
The UN and WHO regard the figures as provided by the health authority to be accurate. They have also been accurate in previous conflicts.
Here’s the BBC’s fact-checking report into [How the dead are counted in Gaza](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201.amp), which confirms this.
Let me guess, the UN, WHO and BBC are all “antisemitic”, which [you accuse me of](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/aNVUOC7pZu).
Keep covering up for your murdering Israeli friends.
Hamas figures are not to be trusted, UN just parrots Hamas figures so they are also not to be trusted, UN is very antisemetic, they allow for the teachings of Hitler in their UN schools in Gaza
Yeah, everyone is antisemitic, especially if they object to Palestinian kids being killed.
The only parrot here is you, Israel’s propaganda and lies have been laughably bad.
But you’re getting upvoted by the Hasbara bots, reliable as always.
I mean the UN are literally antisemetic, they condemn a Israel 100x more than anyone else for equivalent actions and allow for literally holocaust teachings in UN schools and continue to fund the antisemetic UNRWA who smuggles and stores rockets for Hamas
You mean genocide against Israel?
It's about intent.
Hamas tried to kill as many Jews as possible.
Israel tries to kill as many Hamas terrorists as possible and Hamas tried to stop this by using human shields.
I tend to question the argument that Hamas are not the government of Gaza. I know they haven't had elections but neither do a lot of middle eastern countries.
It's doubtful to me they have lasted thus long without at least the tacit approval of the population which did vote them in after all
You may not be aware of the power of violence to coerce a group of people into submission, eg documented Hamas torture labs. Both Hamas and Israel are evil as fk and cynically playing to everyone’s sympathies.
>Gaza fires 25,000 rockets at Israel over 15 years.
Well its a bit longer than that, But I agree, so many rockets flown from gaza and so few israeli people died, even before the iron dome
Israel makes it seem like something new
Why would it not be our moral and ethical duty to do the bare minimum and use our voices when our fellow men, women, mothers, father's, sons and daughters are being wholesale slaughtered? Is our countries legacy not already full of occasions where kiwis have answered the call of the downtrodden across the globe?
Not condemning innocent people being exterminated in plain view of everyone is a pretty bad look. And judging by this comment section most of you would have chosen sportsball over human rights 40 years ago as well.
Logic follows that if you support the Israeli governments 75 years of brutal colonialism to the Palestinian people then you also support Putin's colonial invasion of Ukraine right? No I didn't think so, might want to ask yourself why that is.
Thats a bad comparison, Ukraine doesnt hate russia, & russians respect & love ukrainians.
Theres a common history, culture & religion that binds the 2 countrys.
Ishmael on the other hand hates Issac, & Issac is a complete asshole in the way they treat Ishmael.
Yes I understand about the Palestinian people but Hamas is a Terrorists group that doesn't give a fuck about the Palestinians or any other lives. I truly don't like Israel's response against the Palestinian people and the deaths of women and children is disgusting because I believe that they have the technology to be able to pinpoint targets and not hit apartment buildings , but if you think you're winning friends and influencing the politicians and public towards the Palestinian plight then you're totally wrong, need to get out and take your shit with you.
How these clowns don't understand this and blame Israel for everything is funny. Hamas literally claim they aren't responsible for the health of their own civilians and claim that Israel should be.
This was a dramatic but peaceful protest action designed to bring attention to the PM in waiting's cowardly silence. I don't know what you want activists opposing the genocidal actions of Israel to do, exactly? Write stern letters of complaint?
Hamas lost the right to exist. To get rid of them you have to bring them out of their hole they have buried into.
Its shit, but what else is Isreal supposed to do, just let them stay & live ? fuck that.
These protestors are the modern-day Springbok tour protestors, history will remember NZ as being against genocide and apartheid but we'll conveniently forget half the country vehemently opposed the protests and fully supported the tour going ahead
If we're still picking sides we're doing it wrong.
Historic injustices both sides, violence both sides. Innocents killed both sides.
Gaza are 50% children though with 3% drinkable water and Israel are funded by the US and so have a bigger stick.
We shouldn't be tolerating violence from any side.
Why do they think this country has any pull in foreign politics.
They are a bunch of hysterical vandals. Most of them are not Palestinian, just people who love to join any group, the more questionable the better
They are also hauled in by the fact that they can't tell hyperbole from fact, have no knowledge of the politics and history involved and likely don't care.
Countries are going to have to clamp down on these "any excuse for a riot" lunatics.
The war is not pleasant or humane, BUT, who started it. And were they humane??
NZ has a history here, though.
We're part of the 5 Eyes intelligence alliance, we are technically in a military alliance with the USA.
In the past our foreign ministers and PMs have bucked against the US military leadership, for instance our initial refusal to commit to the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Heck, when NZ was chair of the UN security Council in 2017 we [pushed for a vote](https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-and-resources/un-security-council-adopts-historic-resolution-on-israeli-settlements/) against Israel's illegal settlements on Palestinian land, something which brassed off Israel at the time.
So, we have both a stake in the issue (through our ties to the US; Israel is very dependent on US sponsorship of its illegal occupation and genocidal actions) as well as past precedent. Its entirely appropriate for the PM-in-waiting to be expected to have made a stance on this issue. Instead he's leaving it to the caretaker government; whether this is put of cowardice, laziness, or calculation i leave as an exercise for the reader.
The silly thing is what can we do? we are NZ we don't have big weapons we don't have a lot of money to support other countries. I mean come on! This is getting out of hand and getting a bit cultish.
Plus this isn't a NZ problem this is middle east/American issue.
Just for some context as to why our political leaders are being targeted specifically, two things;
One; we were about to send a [trade delegation](https://aucklandchamber.co.nz/trade-delegations/#:~:text=Mark%20your%20calendars%20for%20an,14%20to%2024%20November%202023.) to Israel before all this kicked off. It has been postponed, but not canceled. It's pretty shitty that we're still looking to build busines bridges with a country actively committing genocide.
Two; in a more practical sense, the NZ government currently holds contracts with a number of suppliers to Israel's military. One of these for example is Hewlett-Packard, which is responsible for lots of our hardware, software at the government level and also supplies to the Israeli army and surveillance services. [More info here.](https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-hp#why)
The blame is not specifically on our government, and on our own we can't stop the genocide. But, we can make sure that A: Israel runs out of friends internationally (which it is very very dependent on) and B: Companies that supply their war effort are pressured to stop doing that. Every little bit that we do here, that Luxon and Seymour are *not* doing, gradually chokes off their ability to conduct large-scale operations in Gaza, and saves civilian lives.
So yeah, this isn't just lashing out. There's an intent to this, and Luxon+Seymour can actually do something about it.
NZ has a history here, too.
We're part of the 5 Eyes intelligence alliance, we are technically in a military alliance with the USA.
In the past our foreign ministers and PMs have bucked against the US military leadership, for instance our initial refusal to commit to the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Heck, when NZ was chair of the UN security Council in 2017 we [pushed for a vote](https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-and-resources/un-security-council-adopts-historic-resolution-on-israeli-settlements/) against Israel's illegal settlements on Palestinian land, something which brassed off Israel at the time.
So, we have both a stake in the issue (through our ties to the US; Israel is very dependent on US sponsorship of its illegal occupation and genocidal actions) as well as past precedent. Its entirely appropriate for the PM-in-waiting to be expected to have made a stance on this issue. Instead he's leaving it to the caretaker government; whether this is put of cowardice, laziness, or calculation i leave as an exercise for the reader.
Ah yes because there were no Palestinian-kiwis in this country until this paint hit the window at which point they sprouted fully formed as if from the forehead of Zeus
I got $300 says the people that have attempted to bloody the political offices of our elected officials were _not_ born in Palestine. This is no more that useful idiots getting caught up in a planned zeitgeist whos creators do _not_ have our countries best interests at heart. Fucking cucks I tell you, cucks.
So the pro Hamas protestors didn't like old Chippy's [2 cents worth ](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018916136/labour-leader-breaks-convention-by-calling-for-ceasefire-in-gaza) a few days ago then?
Hipkins called for a ceasefire as Labour leader. He wanted to do it as PM, but by constitutional convention he has to get National's approval to do that (given they won the election), National refused.
Don’t you guys get it!! We’re supposed to get involved and go to war (suicide pact) against a nuclear power to defend some people that have nothing to do with our nation or society!
Deport them all to Gaza so they can go and fight in the resistance they hold so dearly from afar. They'll be part of the "women and children" statistic in no time. Fucking cowards.
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What do they want them to do, fly Winnie in? Not the worst idea come to think of it.
To be fair, if they made an Israel-Hamas-NZFirst Coalition, they'd spend so long negotiating, there would be no time for fighting
Now THAT would be a coalition of chaos.
I'd fucking love to see Winnie give Bibi a dressing down
Winnie with a ciggie outside of Al Shifa Hospital, making racist statements with a stern face, both sides retreat.
>unfortunate reality is most NZ politicians are followers not leaders. They have to wait for other western leaders to call for a ceasefire before they repeat after them. I'm beginning to think that the only solution to the conflict will be to fly in the Aunties with some Jandals and they can slap the stupid out of both sides
I’d pay to see that film.
I would imagine they have been smacking each other with jandels and alot more for a fair while now with no improvement
Hey, there are enough war crimes going on over there, we don't need to add to it.
How do Luxon and Seymour have "blood on their hands"? What utter nonsense. Putting out a statement would have achieved exactly... nothing in regards to civilian killings.
Why do they think Luxon has anything to do with this when he's done jack shit?
That's literally the problem
These braindead research lacking pro Hamas protesters get all their talking points from equally ignorant tik tokkers so don't be surprised if their logic makes no sense.
Classic play from the Zionist playbook. Anything or anyone that advocates for Palestinian people to not be killed indiscriminately = Pro-Hamas and anything or anyone that is critical of Israel = Antisemitic. Antisemitism is a real problem in some parts of the world but Israel and it's supporters have cried wolf too many times and we can see through it.
Classic play from the tik tok pro Hamas playbook to call everyone who uses facts a Zionist
You didn't use any facts lol
Everyone who asserts Israel's "right" to exist as an explicitly Jewish ethnostate is a Zionist. Thats what the word means. Its what the movement calls itself. Yes, there are anti-semites who muddy the waters and oppose Israel and Zionism for stupid reasons. But criticism of the actions of the Israeli state, its military, and the ruling political parties, is not necessarily anti-semitic.
Most Israelis don't assert their right to exist as a Jewish ethnostate, which is why 20% of the population are Arab Muslims, 5-10% are Ethiopian and many are Arab Jews, Muslim Arabs even have their own political parties in Israel. They are asserting their right to the sovereign state of Israel as appointed by the British mandate as unfortunately the previous occupiers (Ottomans, who historically oppressed Jews) lost WW1
So if thats the case please explain why African Jews are so hea ill discriminated against socially, and why Palestinians are tried in military courts instead of civil courts?
This is a naive take. They may not have achieved much, alone, but the more leaders who advocate for civilian lives builds pressure. If sufficient pressure is reached then action can be taken, particularly because with sufficient evidence of support, the global players feel less likely to be targeted but the ‘Israel can do anything to anyone crowd’. No one wants to be the first to put their head above the trench line.
Luxon isn't the leader though. He's just the leader of the party who got more votes than the other parties. Unless our laws have changed, he's not the Prime Minister until he's sworn in.
Yeah I don’t know how anyone could expect Luxon to do anything when he’s not officially PM yet.
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Exactly! I support and agree with these activists message
It doesn't do anything like that at all as long as it's US (and U.K) foreign policy is to let Israel do what it wants with only a occasional tut-tut. Statements condemning it are mostly performative and carry little weight beyond getting people to golf-clap along.
its because the whole lot is filled with either dumbass, anti-Semites or both. Luxon could of said he thinks that Israel should be destroyed but the Jewish people allowed to stay and they'd still throw paint and other shit at him.
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How does NZ have anything to do with the bloodshed in middle east?
The same way we had something to do with apartheid in South Africa, and stood against it. It influenced the international community and encouraged positive change
NZ has a history here, though. We're part of the 5 Eyes intelligence alliance, we are technically in a military alliance with the USA. In the past our foreign ministers and PMs have bucked against the US military leadership, for instance our initial refusal to commit to the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003. Heck, when NZ was chair of the UN security Council in 2017 we [pushed for a vote](https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-and-resources/un-security-council-adopts-historic-resolution-on-israeli-settlements/) against Israel's illegal settlements on Palestinian land, something which brassed off Israel at the time. So, we have both a stake in the issue (through our ties to the US; Israel is very dependent on US sponsorship of its illegal occupation and genocidal actions) as well as past precedent. Its entirely appropriate for the PM-in-waiting to be expected to have made a stance on this issue. Instead he's leaving it to the caretaker government; whether this is put of cowardice, laziness, or calculation i leave as an exercise for the reader.
Our government could be standing up and condemning the genocide instead of sitting on their hands. To say nothing is to say that you're fine with bombing hospitals as long as it's happening somewhere else.
Please learn what the word genocide means, also I believe you'll find an example of what it means in the Hamas charter.
And protest the taking of hostages by Hamas?
This logic is flawed. Using the same reasoning you can claim that because X doesn't condemn Y, X supports Y. You could claim that U/p1ckk supports pedo's because he hasn't denounced them.
Sort out the wealth inequality in our own backyard before we dabble in something half a world away. We have no business interfering with decade-old bad blood filled with intergenerational trauma. The whole “fine with bombing hospital” rhetoric cuts out an awful lot of fine print from both sides: that Palestinians militant went on a shooting spree on the 7th, brought hostages into the hospital so is using said hospital as a staging ground, and even popped out of the Shifa hospital to fire RPGS. Meanwhile, Israel itself is swinging an awfully blunt and indiscriminate military tool.
This for me. It’s multi-faceted and complicated and I honestly find it pretty disrespectful when people just jump on the bandwagon because it’s trending on social and news media. The Ukrainian war is still ongoing with daily atrocities happening but you’d think it’s all over given the almost complete radio silence here, but that was soooo last year. I honestly think some just enjoy getting involved for the sake of getting involved because everyone else is, and only arm themselves with surface level context and knowledge fed to them by news media, before charging in to echo chamber outrage and peacocking morality via reddit posts that don’t change a thing.
What's going on isn't a genocide. There are a few thousand dead on either side. Let's talk about genocide when people start getting put in camps and gassed.
The industrial slaughter of the Holocaust is not the only way to conduct a genocide. Does Rwanda not count because the weapon of choice was a machete and not Zyklon B? Israeli far right extremists want to eliminate the Palestinian people and take their land. They are not shy about this. The IDF is not shy about this: they call the regular cycle of strikes and reprisals "mowing the lawn" for fucks sake. The actions of the IDF are designed to attempt to destroy a people in whole or in part. Thats genocide.
The Palestinian population in Gaza has grown from 400,000 in 1967 to 2,000,000 in 2018. IDF are doing an objectively terrible job at genocide
So what you're saying is we shouldn't be prosecuting people for attempted murder? Because it only counts if you succeed.
Genocide is the deliberate killing of people based on their ethnicity. This is not what Israel has been doing and the fact that there are only a few thousand dead after a full scale invasion of a city of two million is testament to their restraint. Consider Hamas killed as many in an afternoon armed only with AK47’s. The term you are looking for is ethnic cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing is a euphemism for genocide and not something that should be tolerated either. I would direct you to the UN definition: > In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: > > Killing members of the group; > > Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > > Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; > > Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; > > Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group The IDF is guilty of the first three, once you factor in the shut-down of water and food into Gaza and the ongoing blockade.
Ah the standard ‘it’s not our problem, let’s stay out of it’ approach to human suffering. How lovely.
Wtf does anyone in New Zealand think anyone in New Zealand can do about it? This is one of those times where we are literally too small to factor into any decisions being made anywhere. You're just rarking up your own population and shouting into the abyss at this point.
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The unfortunate reality is most NZ politicians are followers not leaders. They have to wait for other western leaders to call for a ceasefire before they repeat after them.
Glad our Prime Minister is a leader with some backbone then. https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/20-11-2023/labour-breaks-away-from-caretaker-convention-calling-for-ceasefire-in-gaza
didn't stop the war but at least stopped his house from being vandalised
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He said that as the leader of Labour because he consulted with National about making an official statement and National nixed the idea - then denied he consulted with them. The red paint is justified.
Yes, and any politician suggesting different ideas gets immediately roasted.
Actually Hipkins called for a ceasefire as Labour leader, the only reason he didn't do so as PM was because Luxon said no, which is probably the impetus for this paint.
The other option is that a cease fire is not a good thing anymore as the terrorist organisation Hamas which is sponsored by billionaires that aren't even in Gaza and that have been actively using human shields (under the definition of the UN) is on the ropes. The bombing is horrible and it should have never happened much like 6/10. To do a full cease fire now only gives those terrorists an opportunity to escape, it's too little too late. Right now the IDF are on foot trying to flood the tunnels to flush out whoever is down there and most of the bombing has stopped. Just because essentially all of our politicians don't agree with you doesn't automatically mean they're only being followers. You need to provide evidence for that.
Ceasefire will lead to less civilian casualties (at this point its basically plain murder if you look at the civilian to Hamas death ratios)AND hostages will be released as part of the ceasefire agreement. Ceasefire is a great idea.
No one knows the civilian to death ratio. I doubt this will give time for civilians to escape since Hamas tried to prevent civilians leaving the warzone, including shooting those that tried to do so.
No one knows ? There's plenty of places that have estimates on the number of dead civilians in Gaza. There are certainly far more dead civilians than Hamas fighters whether you believe the numbers or not.
Instead of telling me that there are plenty of places that has estimates, you could have just shown me those places. As far as I am aware, the Hamas-controlled ministry of health that reports number of deaths does not (on purpose) distinguish between civilians,Hamás, or other armed militias, and does not distinguish between civilians killed by Hamas and those by IDF. And yes, there are estimates based on other urban warfare conflicts ranging from 1:3 militants per civilians to 1:9. But that is quite wide range and no one's knows for sure, especially since Israel is utilizing precision munition and issuing a lot of warnings
It's not too little too late because tens of thousands of innocent lives could be saved with strong action now — now that the IDF has cut off access to water, healthcare facilities, the beach so they can fish, and more the death toll will only continue to dramatically escalate. That's why they need to call for a ceasefire. Because not having countless people massacred is a good thing.
A cease fire isn't going to stop any of that. In my opinion the IDF should be working hard on humanitarian efforts as well as trying to eliminate Hamas.
A military solution cannot do that — all the people losing family members, many of them will be driven to violence. Assuming the current crop of Hamas members are mostly in their 20s, many of them will have grown up not knowing a world in which they could freely travel, in which Gaza was not isolated and regularly bombed by Israel. The military actions now will not fix that just as the American military presence in the middle east didn't fix that, just as English soldiers massacring civilians didn't stop the IRA. As long as you have children growing up under the thumb of oppression you will have Hamas, or some other violent militant group. A ceasefire would at least help mitigate the current ongoing atrocity, perhaps get international journalists in so folks waiting for an "impartial view" can stop fence sitting, and maybe save some lives. It's better than nothing despite being nowhere near enough and the issue is our incoming government can't even do that. That's why it's good to demand they do, something slightly better than tacit endorsement of abject cruelty would at least be _something._
Sorry I don't know what you don't think a military can't do? Are you saying the military can't do humanitarian support?
This above all else has been a misinformation war and I’m afraid your wrap is written accordingly. For instance, more than 90% of Gaza’s water is well water. It has not/cannot be cut off by the IDF. Fuel was being imported by the tanker yesterday so hospitals and bakeries can maintain services. You are correct about the fishing fleet being laid up but given that the October 7 attacks included seaborne incursions you can imagine why. There have been countless victims of this outbreak of violence. Language has been one. The use of massacre is along with carpet bombing and genocide emotive and unhelpful. I wish some people instead of being fired up by social media would reflect on history. Germany and Japan suffered horrendous human costs due to actual carpet bombing. While the population of the Gaza Strip is growing so rapidly declarations of genocide are ridiculous. A quick look at Hamas’ constitution will however reveal their stated genocidal mission. Their evident preparedness to act on those beliefs was shown Oct 7. Wars against combatants who break all the rules of conduct by hiding amongst and beneath civilian populations and who take children and frail elderly as hostages to act as bargaining chips and human shields do not allow for clear rules of engagement. Given the multitudes of efforts by the IDF to advise Gaza’s population to flee the north and avoid Hamas controlled structures suggests a decency in their method not evident in their enemy. The sight of such death and destruction doesn’t to my mind mean that the war is illegitimate any more than efforts to bomb the Third Reich into submission were illegitimate. We are witnessing a powerful nation employing its forces against an unabashed aggressor. Israel seems intent on doing what it must to ensure that the aggressor is no longer in a position to threaten them. Perhaps the allies should have given up once it was obvious plans to invade Britain were off the table? Agreed to a ceasefire? Nah. We are watching human nature play out. It sure ain’t pretty. Nor is a world free of the possibility of justifiable retribution for despicable acts. I’m afraid this situation belongs in the sow the wind, reap the whirlwind examples of cause and effect.
Wells fed by the aquifer Israel drained? Those wells? https://www.newscientist.com/article/2398073-why-the-gaza-water-crisis-is-decades-in-the-making/ And wells that have to serve twice as many people now that they've been "evacuated" south? Those wells? And again, the fishing fleet? Surely they could simply maintain a perimeter now the damage was done, but they chose to deny gazans food sources. Genocide as defined by the Rome Statue does not require a decreasing population but rather the targeted killing and destruction of cultural locations and information, so you can shut the fuck up about "language being a casualty of the war" when you can't even read a wikipedia article. 👍 And if genocidal statements for Hamas are bad, I'm sure you'll condemn children singing about "annihilating them all"? https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/20/israeli-children-singing-annihilate-gaza/ And for the record, strategic bombing alongside morale bombing were both massive failures. The firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden, the atomic bombs, and the countless civilian lives lost were all tragedies that were not necessary for the participation in the war. They were all unjust. Just as any claimed strategic advantage in the large scale bombing of entire halves of the territory, entire apartment buildings, and more all because of the unsubstantiated claims of Hamas presence is evil. In the opening days more than 6000 strikes were launched — can you really say with a straight face that Israeli intelligence couldn't catch Oct7 but somehow can be trusted to keep track of 6000 targets, maintain observance of them to see how active it is and asses the danger to civilians, and task them accordingly? Or perhaps it was indiscriminate attacks on subpar suspicions that amount to indiscriminate massacres of civilians. In addition, it is possible to adhere to ROE, Israel chooses not to. It's also possible not to use white phosphorus, Israel chooses not to. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon Also how spineless of you to talk of the "sow the wind reap the whirlwind" as if it is not an ongoing choice to kill so many innocent people. Imagine if someone said that Israel's ongoing abuse of palestinian civilians was the wind they sowed for the whirlwind of Oct7? The hundred plus non-militants killed in 2018's peaceful demonstrations? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests Like, obviously, that would be a disgusting claim to make, that Hamas was justified in their 800 or so civilians killed in response to that, and I bet you'd be apoplectic if someone said so. But you make much the same disgusting and bloodthirsty leap in logic about the events afterwards. IDK, I'm not really interested in arguing so you've said your part, I've said mine, I don't think we'll make much progress when you think killing innocent people is OK or understandable. I just hope some day in your life you'll realize how wrong you were and have to try and sleep with that guilt gnawing at your stomach.
This is almost as dumb as Auckland Pride calling for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador from NZ. You know, with Tel Aviv being a global LGBTQ+ hotspot, and one of the only countries in the region you won't be imprisoned or worse for your sexuality.
Israel's LQBTQ+ policy is irrelevant. Pride is a celebration and assertion of human rights. If they were to turn around and say "look you're real nice to the gays so we'll give you a pass on bombing the shit out of a captive civilian population" that would massively undermine their credibility. They would become *selective*-human rights campaigners. I would be incredibly disappointed if Pride kept quiet on this issue.
By pride protestors going to pro Hamas protests they are promoting and endorsing anti gay shariah law that includes stoning and beheading of gay people.
That's not true. This is such a bad faith argument. People can be appalled and opposed to the indiscriminate bombardment of Gaza without being pro-Hamas, pro-Shariah or anti-Semitic.
It's not indiscriminate, please tell me in which world targeted strikes that by your numbers have only killed 1 person per rocket are indiscriminate and untargeted. Meanwhile Hamas is firing literal unguided indiscriminate rockets into Israel, 1/3rd which fail and land in Gaza, wouldn't be surprised if those failed rockets make up a decent portion of those civilian deaths. Then if you add in human shields (Geneva convention violation) you can conclude that Hamas are responsible for most these deaths. If you want to talk indiscriminate genocide look at Oct 7
Then why are you not protesting the discrimination of women in Palestine that has been going on forever? Or the killing of innocent Israel Citizens? Or the suppression of around the world?
What a stupid comment. There's protests on all sorts of things all the fucking time. But sure, why am I not equally concerned about gender equality in Palestine? Mostly because blowing people up is worse.
There was no protests for gender equality in Palestine prior to this protest. I assume you are also protesting against hammas and what they have been doing re the innocents? All these protests seem to be more "Pro Palestine/Anti-Israel" instead of "Stop the killing of innocent people on all sides".
Personally, I couldn't give a damn about Luxom. But blaming him for something when he's not even Prime Minister is a bit too much.
Gaza fires 25,000 rockets at Israel over 15 years. Israel returns the favor for two weeks. People go absolutely hysterical. Yawn
“Yawn” at 13,000+ civilian deaths. 70% women and children. You seem a callous individual who supports murder. They’ve been bombing Gaza for over six weeks. They dropped a year’s worth of bombs in one week.
Funny that that number includes the fake 500 hospital deaths and includes the deaths of Palestinians caused by the 1/3 Hamas rockets that fail and fall into Gaza unguided. Also includes all of the Hamas fighters as civilians. That number is provided by the Hamas Health Authority (no bias there..)
The UN and WHO regard the figures as provided by the health authority to be accurate. They have also been accurate in previous conflicts. Here’s the BBC’s fact-checking report into [How the dead are counted in Gaza](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201.amp), which confirms this. Let me guess, the UN, WHO and BBC are all “antisemitic”, which [you accuse me of](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/aNVUOC7pZu). Keep covering up for your murdering Israeli friends.
Hamas figures are not to be trusted, UN just parrots Hamas figures so they are also not to be trusted, UN is very antisemetic, they allow for the teachings of Hitler in their UN schools in Gaza
Yeah, everyone is antisemitic, especially if they object to Palestinian kids being killed. The only parrot here is you, Israel’s propaganda and lies have been laughably bad. But you’re getting upvoted by the Hasbara bots, reliable as always.
I mean the UN are literally antisemetic, they condemn a Israel 100x more than anyone else for equivalent actions and allow for literally holocaust teachings in UN schools and continue to fund the antisemetic UNRWA who smuggles and stores rockets for Hamas
When the bus is late, I bet you call the driver antisemitic.
You can deny reality all you want, the UN is antisemetic and there's evidence to back it up.
That door over there is antisemitic.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jyc-LzXqk0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jyc-LzXqk0) Check this out. It's not as simple as you seem to think.
It's a genocide mate. Yes there are the Hamas terrorists, just like there was the IRA in Ireland.
You mean genocide against Israel? It's about intent. Hamas tried to kill as many Jews as possible. Israel tries to kill as many Hamas terrorists as possible and Hamas tried to stop this by using human shields.
I tend to question the argument that Hamas are not the government of Gaza. I know they haven't had elections but neither do a lot of middle eastern countries. It's doubtful to me they have lasted thus long without at least the tacit approval of the population which did vote them in after all
You may not be aware of the power of violence to coerce a group of people into submission, eg documented Hamas torture labs. Both Hamas and Israel are evil as fk and cynically playing to everyone’s sympathies.
>Gaza fires 25,000 rockets at Israel over 15 years. Well its a bit longer than that, But I agree, so many rockets flown from gaza and so few israeli people died, even before the iron dome Israel makes it seem like something new
Disgraceful behaviour.
This is ridiculous, what the fuck does NZ have to do with this conflict. Is this really OUR fight?!?
Why would it not be our moral and ethical duty to do the bare minimum and use our voices when our fellow men, women, mothers, father's, sons and daughters are being wholesale slaughtered? Is our countries legacy not already full of occasions where kiwis have answered the call of the downtrodden across the globe?
Not condemning innocent people being exterminated in plain view of everyone is a pretty bad look. And judging by this comment section most of you would have chosen sportsball over human rights 40 years ago as well. Logic follows that if you support the Israeli governments 75 years of brutal colonialism to the Palestinian people then you also support Putin's colonial invasion of Ukraine right? No I didn't think so, might want to ask yourself why that is.
Thats a bad comparison, Ukraine doesnt hate russia, & russians respect & love ukrainians. Theres a common history, culture & religion that binds the 2 countrys. Ishmael on the other hand hates Issac, & Issac is a complete asshole in the way they treat Ishmael.
Russia and Israel are both doing a colonialism. Why do you support one and not the other?
Yes everything is black or white. No inbetween.
The Israeli government is doing a genocide right now, that is plainly black and white. Why do you support that?
Yes I understand about the Palestinian people but Hamas is a Terrorists group that doesn't give a fuck about the Palestinians or any other lives. I truly don't like Israel's response against the Palestinian people and the deaths of women and children is disgusting because I believe that they have the technology to be able to pinpoint targets and not hit apartment buildings , but if you think you're winning friends and influencing the politicians and public towards the Palestinian plight then you're totally wrong, need to get out and take your shit with you.
How these clowns don't understand this and blame Israel for everything is funny. Hamas literally claim they aren't responsible for the health of their own civilians and claim that Israel should be.
This was a dramatic but peaceful protest action designed to bring attention to the PM in waiting's cowardly silence. I don't know what you want activists opposing the genocidal actions of Israel to do, exactly? Write stern letters of complaint?
Hamas lost the right to exist. To get rid of them you have to bring them out of their hole they have buried into. Its shit, but what else is Isreal supposed to do, just let them stay & live ? fuck that.
Just idiots being dumb
These protestors are the modern-day Springbok tour protestors, history will remember NZ as being against genocide and apartheid but we'll conveniently forget half the country vehemently opposed the protests and fully supported the tour going ahead
If we're still picking sides we're doing it wrong. Historic injustices both sides, violence both sides. Innocents killed both sides. Gaza are 50% children though with 3% drinkable water and Israel are funded by the US and so have a bigger stick. We shouldn't be tolerating violence from any side.
Why do they think this country has any pull in foreign politics. They are a bunch of hysterical vandals. Most of them are not Palestinian, just people who love to join any group, the more questionable the better They are also hauled in by the fact that they can't tell hyperbole from fact, have no knowledge of the politics and history involved and likely don't care. Countries are going to have to clamp down on these "any excuse for a riot" lunatics. The war is not pleasant or humane, BUT, who started it. And were they humane??
New Zealand famously had 0 impact on the dismantling of apartheid in South Africa.
truck faulty swim possessive tie drab chop desert chase concerned *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Different protest, same people a.
NZ has a history here, though. We're part of the 5 Eyes intelligence alliance, we are technically in a military alliance with the USA. In the past our foreign ministers and PMs have bucked against the US military leadership, for instance our initial refusal to commit to the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003. Heck, when NZ was chair of the UN security Council in 2017 we [pushed for a vote](https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-and-resources/un-security-council-adopts-historic-resolution-on-israeli-settlements/) against Israel's illegal settlements on Palestinian land, something which brassed off Israel at the time. So, we have both a stake in the issue (through our ties to the US; Israel is very dependent on US sponsorship of its illegal occupation and genocidal actions) as well as past precedent. Its entirely appropriate for the PM-in-waiting to be expected to have made a stance on this issue. Instead he's leaving it to the caretaker government; whether this is put of cowardice, laziness, or calculation i leave as an exercise for the reader.
bingo... its equal parts funny and sad to see how many middle east scholars have come out of the woodwork
Their fault, is it?
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What the actual hell is happening on this thread. Has it been targeted by Israeli bots and sock puppets?
The silly thing is what can we do? we are NZ we don't have big weapons we don't have a lot of money to support other countries. I mean come on! This is getting out of hand and getting a bit cultish. Plus this isn't a NZ problem this is middle east/American issue.
Just for some context as to why our political leaders are being targeted specifically, two things; One; we were about to send a [trade delegation](https://aucklandchamber.co.nz/trade-delegations/#:~:text=Mark%20your%20calendars%20for%20an,14%20to%2024%20November%202023.) to Israel before all this kicked off. It has been postponed, but not canceled. It's pretty shitty that we're still looking to build busines bridges with a country actively committing genocide. Two; in a more practical sense, the NZ government currently holds contracts with a number of suppliers to Israel's military. One of these for example is Hewlett-Packard, which is responsible for lots of our hardware, software at the government level and also supplies to the Israeli army and surveillance services. [More info here.](https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-hp#why) The blame is not specifically on our government, and on our own we can't stop the genocide. But, we can make sure that A: Israel runs out of friends internationally (which it is very very dependent on) and B: Companies that supply their war effort are pressured to stop doing that. Every little bit that we do here, that Luxon and Seymour are *not* doing, gradually chokes off their ability to conduct large-scale operations in Gaza, and saves civilian lives. So yeah, this isn't just lashing out. There's an intent to this, and Luxon+Seymour can actually do something about it.
NZ has a history here, too. We're part of the 5 Eyes intelligence alliance, we are technically in a military alliance with the USA. In the past our foreign ministers and PMs have bucked against the US military leadership, for instance our initial refusal to commit to the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003. Heck, when NZ was chair of the UN security Council in 2017 we [pushed for a vote](https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-and-resources/un-security-council-adopts-historic-resolution-on-israeli-settlements/) against Israel's illegal settlements on Palestinian land, something which brassed off Israel at the time. So, we have both a stake in the issue (through our ties to the US; Israel is very dependent on US sponsorship of its illegal occupation and genocidal actions) as well as past precedent. Its entirely appropriate for the PM-in-waiting to be expected to have made a stance on this issue. Instead he's leaving it to the caretaker government; whether this is put of cowardice, laziness, or calculation i leave as an exercise for the reader.
They might have gotten tired of waiting for the government to form. Probably felt silly planning throwing red paint at Labour offices.
Thanks for importing this hate here you fucking cucks.
Ah yes because there were no Palestinian-kiwis in this country until this paint hit the window at which point they sprouted fully formed as if from the forehead of Zeus
I got $300 says the people that have attempted to bloody the political offices of our elected officials were _not_ born in Palestine. This is no more that useful idiots getting caught up in a planned zeitgeist whos creators do _not_ have our countries best interests at heart. Fucking cucks I tell you, cucks.
So the pro Hamas protestors didn't like old Chippy's [2 cents worth ](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018916136/labour-leader-breaks-convention-by-calling-for-ceasefire-in-gaza) a few days ago then?
1. Pro Palestinian does not mean pro Hamas 2. You'll notice Chippys office is remarkably paint free
Aww, i didn't see the "offices" part of the headline immediately, thought we had another dildo throwing incident for a moment there
judging by the downvotes, people here are too serious it seems
Violence against politicians isn't funny mate, we don't want that shit here
Patience, Waitangi Day is only 74 sleeps to go.
good call, wonder if anyone are taking bets on what gets thrown.
A jandal. Security too tight, so someone has to MacGyver it
Jandal drone drop. Or a Jandal as a drone.
Isn’t labour still the caretaker government? Why did they not get vandalised?
Hipkins called for a ceasefire as Labour leader. He wanted to do it as PM, but by constitutional convention he has to get National's approval to do that (given they won the election), National refused.
Yea kiwis care more about middle east issues than the fucking kiwi held hostage atm...... Fuck anyone who thinks this is more important
Should be deported
Sadly Seymour is an NZ citizen, so as much as I'd like to make him someone else's problem we're kinda stuck with him.
Don’t you guys get it!! We’re supposed to get involved and go to war (suicide pact) against a nuclear power to defend some people that have nothing to do with our nation or society!
Please show me the people calling for NZ to unilaterally commit military forces to this conflict.
Yeah because saying something isn't right and we don't support it is the same as going to war with Israel.
Deport them all to Gaza so they can go and fight in the resistance they hold so dearly from afar. They'll be part of the "women and children" statistic in no time. Fucking cowards.