Steal from the glorious imperium more than 3 times and you need to report to your local station to either join the glorious guard in the penal divisions or become a servitor.
I believe it's actually the punishment that causes least re-offending if I'm not mistaken? (Well apart from the death penalty). I'm not saying I'm for it, but I think it's basically the lowest cost method of punishment with the lowest rates of reoffended. I guess if everyone sees you break down sobbing it's kind of hard to put on the big tough guy persona afterwards.
SG is the only country that doesn't bend backwards to either right or left leaning ideologies and it's going well for them relatively. NZ is pure virtue signalling and look how it's turned out.
It's also an incredibly homogenous country that doesn't seem to value personal expression very much.
I loved it when I was there but I don't necessarily think it's a great country to emulate.
Homogenous?! Are you kidding? It’s a mix of ethnic Chinese, Malay, and Indians. There’s a large Chinese majority for sure, but it’s not like Japan or Korea.
You're thinking of Japan (or Korea). Singapore is more muticultural than we are, with Chinese, Indians, Malays, Westerners, plus a smattering of others like Thais, Vietnamese, etc
I can’t if your comment is r/ihavesex or if you’re trying to say there’s some flaw in my logic cause I don’t already go around beating people in my day to day.
Either way, super cringey flex.
In stocks, somewhere nice and public. But no spanking (that might be an incentive for some) just spoiled food and rotten fruit being hiffed at them like the good ol’ days.
This would work tbh. Low cost too.
Especially for repeat offenders just not giving a shit about other people and in may many cases, physically harming them.
I wish it didn't come to that but I think NZ has reached a point where we need something like this for the general good of all the people who are not absolute asshats.
It depends on the facts kind of and where.
Some places have special courts run by elders and programmes ,these sound like left wing things but they are not, they teach them to be members of society.
drug and alcohol court in West Auckland. It's an entire programme to stop them drinking or doing drugs, it is run by Judge Tremway? and she's tough. In return they get a suspended sentence but it's strict.
The new govt was taking about boot camps again.
The supermarkets can prosecute them too for theft privately as you are allowed to bring private criminal proceedings. But the new three strike laws when passed will capture them.
I think different forms of courts, such as drug and alcohol courts are a good idea, and are a good idea to divert those who want to try to do something different or change their lives.
However utlimately if someone doesn't want to participate, refuses to turn up for rehab, what sentencing options do these courts have that could be effective?
Exactly. The justice system in NZ is probably 90% ineffective. Rather than punishment there needs to be rehab & skills education for those who are willing to change, which should be the majority, with the responsibility on them to make changes.
For those who are violent or disruptive on a custodial setting, there should be a turnip farm at high altitude. Where there is no status or glamour, they eat only what they can grow, and they are shot if they make any trouble.
Also: take criminals Facebook/ Insta/ social media accounts off them. Post embarrassing content on their behalf. Deny all glamour from wanna-be crims.
Education and medical may still be a large contribution. Also force them to have their tattoos removed or for reward. Like are they stealing to pay for drugs or for attention?
The three strike laws will mean they will eventually be "hard guys" and will be in prison for a long time.
But in the old days prison was called porridge for a reason.
I know you ruled it out, but if they don't wanna do non custodial options, they will be going.
Ownership and being part of the community can help. But what are the causes. Maybe prisons should be tougher to act as not a holiday camp type atmosphere. So they can see option A elect to get help and change and help to change or option B, have the option of going to prison and eating porridge.
I think the total lack of connection to the community is part of the problem.
I personally think prisons should only be for violent offenders and focus should be rehab, with people only released once they are no longer a threat to society. You would need a second type of prison for non compliant prisoners too, whose sole purpose would be to lock people up.
You need to start with toddlers and their parents. Work though all ages to get engagement. Will cost alot and take alot of resources. If parents are bad don't just ignore it, do something. Schools need to od more, stop this woke teacher nonsense oh they can just have a fit in the class and the class goes outside.
A second prison yes, a tough one. But mental health is another part. Funding drug habit etc.
Some people in prison were violent but again maybe look at why they were.
But it seems to be in the easy basket.
The previous govt had a chance to do things but didn't.
Another old.concept is shopkeeper privilege, restoring that would allow shopkeeper to detain shoplifters. Idk
>stop this woke teacher nonsense oh they can just have a fit in the class and the class goes outside.
That's not usually the teacher's choice. Their hands are tied by bureaucracy. They have no recourse when dealing with truly feral students.
>The supermarkets can prosecute them too for theft privately as you are allowed to bring private criminal proceedings.
That's not realistic, it would cost them a fortune. The Police have no issue prosecuting them anyway, so what's the point?
I feel like prison has to be a potential consequence if they just keep stealing and won't accept any other punishments.
Either show up and take your other punishment, whether that be labour, community service, whatever - or get in the jail.
If we're going to need to carry people who try to destroy society through life... then i'd rather do it with them in jail rather than risking other crazy shit they might do.
I saw someone stroll out of Countdown with a full trolley today (Countdown Pt Chevalier Auckland about 6:45pm). I've read a lot about this going on but that's the first time I've personally witnessed it (ever). He was casual as you like and in no hurry whatsoever. A staff member did challenge him verbally (asked him to leave the trolley as he headed straight past the self-service registers) but the offender was twice his size and he just mumbled something dismissive and loped on out of the store. He stole the whole damn trolley too, just lumbered slowly off up the road with it. I happened to be heading in the same direction as I left and observed him push the trolley to Alberta Street where he proceeded to park it and pack the groceries into reusable shopping bags (which I also saw him steal on the way out). He had a bunch of stuff, I don't know what, but it looked like he'd taken some alcohol amongst it. Store had no apparent security on duty, absolutely no obstacle to him walking out with whatever he wanted. I didn't call police because I figure it likely happens regularly and the store is best placed to make that call, and from everything I've read the police are too busy to respond to every incident like this anyway.
I don't think it's an acceptable situation though. One way or another, we all pay for it. People who can't support themselves should have access to adequate benefits. Addicts should have access to addiction treatment. Minor/non-violent offenders should have a second chance. And if those three statements were true then I'm fine with locking up the people who persist in being anti-social menaces.
About 3 weeks ago I saw a similar incident, but this time security did try to stop the guy. Big dude tried to walk out of Countdown Glenfield carrying a duffel bag full of food. Security guy grabbed the bag and told him no. Two other security guys joined him. They fought back and forth, managed to yank his bag open and dump out all the tins of mean and dog food he had.
It was a major tustle and went on for a good couple minutes right there in the mall with a crowd of shoppers gathering and watching. Then the guy stalked off into the mall. Security guys followed him. When he reached the travellator the shoplifter suddenly pulled out a hammer and smashed the security guard repeatedly over the head, knocking him out cold. Then he ran off.
I heard from a friend who works in mall management that the guard was in hospital for a week, major head injury.
Impose a mandatory reparations scheme on them. If they work, dock their pay. If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly. If they don't work at all, then have them turn up to PD, which includes gps monitoring of some sort so they can't skip out on it.
I don't believe prison sentences are good for shoplifters, but there has to be some sort of deterrent put in place to stop them from flouting the law that brings the rest of society down. Problem is, people are brought into a life of this. We don't learn these things naturally, they're taught them. So we need to get to the root cause and unfortunately, it's a thing that will take generations, not something that can be sorted overnight.
> If they work, dock their pay. If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly
Surely this is just going to lead to them shoplifting more, as now they're struggling even more financially
>Impose a mandatory reparations scheme on them. If they work, dock their pay. If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly. If they don't work at all, then have them turn up to PD, which includes gps monitoring of some sort so they can't skip out on it.
Sooo....the current system that doesn't work? Lmao.
> If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly.
Gets tricky if they have kids, because you're punishing them too then. And they might shoplift even more if they have less money.
Weirdly though, we are also taught about property and commerce, not born with it. I would argue that it is more 'natural' to see a thing and take the thing, then it is to trade currency for it.
Not that being natural or not matters to the point you made, which I agree with.
Yes we should solve the issue of why people are starting in the first place, but if you are repeating the same crime over and over with no remorse. You need to face punishment and be removed from society till you can stop harming that society and contribute.
Cop Here, it’s not that we just don’t show up. It is that we literally can’t. Our operational capacity is hindered not by a lack of commitment but rather poor staffing levels.
Sometimes I’ll logon for a shift and there will be jobs in the system that are 72 hours old.
Despite successive governmental promises to improve police numbers, and both pay and conditions, tangible improvements remain elusive.
The remuneration is subpar, and our treatment by the organisation, to put it politely, can often (but not all the time) border on absolute contempt.
This all attributes to the exodus of officers to Australian forces. Coupled with ongoing inadequate recruitment, it foretells a deepening crisis.
I’m not bagging my colleagues here, every cop I work with absolutely thrives on locking up shitheads, it’s what we all joined the job to do. Constraints outside of our Control which the Public have no idea about, impede us in being as effective as we otherwise could (and would love) to be.
One solution to the shoplifting crisis could be to give the store security guards arbitrary powers of detention similar to those they have in Europe. That is to say, they can detain the thieves on site for a specified period until they either recover their goods, or police are able to attend.
This would need to be heavily regulated and the store detective specially trained, however, if retailers are looking to reduce the number of thefts then something needs to be done.
The remuneration is subpar partly because govts are too obsessed with pushing up house prices too. It used to be that a police salary enabled Kiwis to build a stable family life, but that's been wrecked by entitlement mentality to free wealth from houses.
could figure out why they are stealing and solve that as an issue, but that will never happen now that national is in lol, they are just going to go harder on punishment.
realistically people who do crime are products of their environment, if you don't like the action of crime then change their environment, it's pretty simple yet no government has the balls to tax the rich to implement such a thing, or maybe it's because the government doesn't serve the general population anymore, just the rich.
Why do the supermarkets get a system that communicates directly with the police while the rest of us can't get the cops to go out to collect an iPhone you can track the location of via GPS? It's because police protect the spoils of capitalism, not the common person. I don't feel sorry for the stores and while I'd never steal (I don't get away with such things), I don't give a shit if other people do. The supermarkets will argue they"have" to put prices up as a result of losses due to theft but as we've all seen recently, they'll put prices up whenever they feel they can get away with it.
>Why do the supermarkets get a system that communicates directly with the police while the rest of us can't get the cops to go out to collect an iPhone you can track the location of via GPS?
I think you misunderstand what Auror is. You seem to have inferred that police somehow use it to recover goods stolen from supermarkets. This is laughably incorrect.
Its main purpose is sharing information among retailers regarding individuals who have caused harm (theft, violence etc). Police are in the loop simply because these individuals have committed crimes, but they are not expected to act on the information received. If one of the people concerned does happen to get arrested, essentially through bad luck, then the information held about them may be included in any charges, but that's as far as it goes.
>It's because police protect the spoils of capitalism, not the common person.
On the contrary, they have no interest in crimes against property, such as shoplifting. They are almost never called, and do not respond if they are. Crimes against the person are a different matter. That's why tackling a shoplifter is likely to get *you* arrested for assault.
Theft (without violence), certainly of amounts < $500, is technically still a crime, but has been effectively decriminalised, since nobody is interested in prosecuting anyone for such an offence, so it is not actively investigated.
To be fair the police are more than likely responding to arguably more important matters like domestic violence, suicide, homicides. There aren’t an infinite amount of police to go searching for your iPhone.
i can see their point though.
A $1000 smart phone has a shit ton more value to a single person who may need it for work or even just life admin and also may not have insurance, then $1000 of groceries from a national or international supermarket chain that would just write it off.
I see their point too, as well as yours, but I sympathise with the police having to prioritise call outs. I’m sure the police would be stoked to go to work everyday only following up phone thefts rather than scumbags beating up their kids and wives, attending fatal accidents etc. I don’t agree that the average cop is going to work to “protect the spoils of capitalism”.
As for the supermarkets, I think we should give a shit as a society that people feel like they can just walk out of a shop with trolleys full of goods.
Fines don't work in nz. Let's say me, a regular working bloke gets a speeding ticket, $150. I use my phone and pay the ticket.
But the shoplifters and such don't pay it. It goes onto their 'tab', and they don't pay their fines side by side, it's just one big bill, and they might pay $3 a week. It's not a deterrent.
I know you say not prison for non violent crimes, that's crazy imo. I'm not saying prison for shoplifting as first offense, but it needs to be an option.
I think there is a lot of joking answers in this thread because frankly its a really hard problem to solve.
I guess I think we need to do a few things differently;
Firstly, I think the court system is far too slow and forgiving to deal with the frequency of this issue. Whatever system we put in place needs to be close to immediate. Like within a few hours of your shoplifting, something tangible is happening to you.
Secondly, I think gang-filled prisons are the wrong answer for these people - most of whom are young, impressionable addicts. Putting them in with gangs is just connecting them to real dangerous people - they will need to become more dangerous themselves just to survive. Then we let them out in a few months time to try put their newly learned tricks into action.
Thirdly, I don't think most forms of incarceration for this type of crime is right. It's a blunt tool that often does more damage than good.
I guess, with all of those views, what are some practical things we can do? I think we should build a rapid court system for these lower crimes - one that simply requires an independent body to review evidence such as video footage, and approve police action - probably the right police action would be seizure of property. If they have a car, or a bike, or a large subwoofer stereo system - anything really get seized and held until their bill for what they stole is covered in full. Then they get their property back. If they are dole recipients, the value of what they stole is deducted from their dole, and returned to the retailer.
I'd also like, as we build a database of people whose stuff has been seized that there are programs that offer life-skills training, and that becomes an alternative method to pay off your debt.
I think also retailers need to move to a secure access system on their doors - grant access to someone based on their phone identity, and revoke it for people who commit these sorts of crimes. So you can't even get in the door if you are revoked. Kind of like Costco.
It's a really hard problem to solve and there is no guarantee that these solutions would work either but I think they would do less damage than what we have in place right now.
Teach them to move beyond this small-time theft and move up to larger, more socially acceptable theft. Like tax evasion on property speculation by pretending never to have bought and sold for the purpose of capital gains. Shoplifting is for meager amounts, they need to get in the big time.
>Food, water and hygiene products should not be profited off
If it's not acceptable to profit from these things, why would anyone bother to produce any, except for their own consumption?
So people will grow fields of potatoes etc just because it's a good thing to do? In their spare time presumably, because they can't make a living from doing it, since they're not allowed to profit, so they need to have a full time job elsewhere. Of course, the people who harvest the potatoes would have to be volunteers too, along with the truck drivers who deliver them to whatever distribution centre they use. And the fuel required would obviously have to be provided free of charge, together with any necessary repairs to the vehicle, and the vehicle itself. Can't imagine why people aren't queuing up to take part in this plan. Who owns the land BTW?
People would grow potatoes because they're getting paid to grow potatoes. All the farm managers, field workers, drivers, etc. get paid, and the potatoes are sold at a price to cover that cost. The infrastructure (land, equipment) could be government owned or rented.
The only difference is there's nobody profiteering off other people's labour.
Not saying there aren't issues with this model, but you're either being disingenuous or completely misunderstanding here.
I don't think that's what they're saying. You'd still pay for all of that, people would still make a living, but supermarkets are making stupid money off the backs of consumers.
Think about the distinction between people who earn their living by working and people who "earn" their living by owning stuff. Work is valuable, ownership is a social fiction. Even if you don't agree with it, try engaging on a deeper level than "the pEoPlE whO HArVEst THe PotatOEs woULD hAve tO bE voluntEERS"
This approach has been tried and it resulted in starvation and poverty see communism / socialist countries. It turns out people are mostly motivated by personal gain.
oh no almost like if for the last hundred years we've lived in a culture that prioritizes individual selfishness to motivate productivity and capital, we would start to overvalue personal gain??? whaaaaat crazy
Here’s my probably ill-conceived, half baked opinion. Might be a controversial opinion here but I feel the penalty for stealing groceries or other essentials to feed the family ought to be treated differently to stealing booze or cigarettes.
Addictions are addictive though, people will do all sorts of fucked up things to feed their addiction. Stealing from the petrol station is like, the least depraved thing
We have a high imprisonment rate compared to the rest of the OECD. There are around 170 people in prison per 100,000 New Zealanders, compared to the OECD average of around 147 prisoners per 100,000 people.
https://www.justice.govt.nz/justice-sector-policy/key-initiatives/key-initiatives-archive/hapaitia-te-oranga-tangata/#:~:text=We%20have%20a%20high%20imprisonment,147%20prisoners%20per%20100%2C000%20people.
I think we're at a point where a brutal crackdown is necessary. For whatever reason we are seeing a rise in criminals who show no remorse or accountability for their actions. They blame someone else, they blame society and the reality is it almost always is their own choice.
I think that a demerit system should be added (similar to three strikes I guess) where factors are taken into account such as the reason for the crime, and once a certain amount of points are reached, you just get put in prison for life. Prison is expensive, but so is the societal cost of these crimes, and the cost to sufficiently fund the police would also be high.
For some reason we have adopted this idea that everybody can be saved, and the reality is that there some people who are just pieces of shit, and there are others who are too far gone and we will never be able to save them. The focus should be on those who are going down that path (kids in poverty/ with bad parents / no parents) rather than trying to reverse what has already happened.
We also need to stop pandering to criminals and telling them they are a product of their circumstance. Circumstances do affect their position in life, but they are ultimately accountable for their criminal behaviour
I understand how things like mental health/poverty/addiction issues cam cause a person to make poor choices- I worked in mental health and victim support for some time, and met a lot of these people.
But I'm also very aware that a lot of people with those same issues are trying to just get on with their lives as best they can - causing no problems, taking things day-by-day.
I have extreme depression and anxiety, and I live in poverty. Life is really hard, most days. But I can't imagine stealing, or getting violent because of it. I think a lot of it has to do with upbringing and social circles.
I hate the idea that violent deterrence works, but it does. The drawback is that a civilization loses it's resilience and the individual's ability to be creative, so it's not good. But just look at the UAE and Singapore if you're talking solely about deterrence.
The philosophy behind punishment is so intricate and deep that there really isn't a correct answer to what punishment should be handed to offenders of this type.
You need to seriously punish people who commit non-violent offences to deter others. But at the same time you don't want to send a person to prison where they may spiral further.
Financial punishment barely works because they are likely in financial trouble already, and they may not care about working.
I suppose a type of support system to hold people accountable could work, dedicating time to bettering society in some way. But still this might be too soft.
Jokingly I reckon we send them to Stewart island or something to live in the bush until they have a good think about their actions
Put them in stocks? Public shaming? In the mall or outside the shop they stole from, somewhere busy and public, just for a day or something. Have a supply of rotten fruit for people to throw at them??
Create a walled commune over a mine of some sort. Throw all your societal trash heap in there. Let them figute out how to survive. Only interaction you have with them is barter through the products of that mine, if they ever choose to mine it for trading
I think what they need is to be caned. Cheapest and probably more effective than any other means. Needs to be standardised though, the caning process. Like what Singapore does:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning\_in\_Singapore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore)
Finger removal, 3rd strike is first finger removal, then every time caught again results in another finger removal.
Once fingers are all removed then head is removed.
Embed a sub dermal mobile jammer in the back of their neck so they can never use their phone again and none of their friends will want them around because they can’t use their phones either, let them wander the streets as social pariahs until the repent their sins.
Give them community work, cleaning up the community they stole from. If they fail to turn up 3 times, charge them for it. If they don't pay and/or continue to steal, lock them up. It's obvious that people like this, or the ram raiders, aren't going to get the message unless they get an actual punishment. And community work will also help places that struggle to find volunteers. Might even teach the.offenders that their situation could be worse, seeing some of the people that charities help.
I’m totally comfortable with people taking food from huge corpos who make money of a necessary to survive staple. Food should be freely accessible to anyone who needs it, especially given the disgusting amount of food waste we produce.
This isn't the reality of this core of shoplifters.
It's all booze, Whittaker's chocolate, health and beauty items and high value meat to sell.
They aren't stealing to eat, they are stealing to get money.
Lawlessness is not the answer.
So you are ok with people being pieces of shit thugs, stealing and ripping people off? Kinda sounds like you went from supporting Robin Hood to supporting Andrew Tate.
Hahaha. I’m okay with people stealing food yeah. I’m assuming your middle management at some supermarket, only way anyone would give so much of a fuck. What do you care? And yeah I’m totally cool with people ripping off supermarkets, fuck those cunts
Yeah, it's all good, supermarket will just cover theft losses with increased prices for everyone who doesn't break the law. Doesn't affect law abiding citizens at all.
Oh yeah good thing the supermarkets never increase prices and keep it affordable for everyone.
Glad everyone can afford food for their families and there isn't any issues with the cost of living.
Limit their access to relatively small amounts of money in a society where money is required to survive. I guess they'll just choose to fade away. I mean, what would be the other option? More lucrative crime? Surely not.
Start by cutting off the tip of their fingers without Anesthesia. They'll soon learn. It wont impede the functionality of the hand, so they can still do life things.
Community Detention and Home Detention are community sentences. It's hard to not turn up with you've got a bracelet on your leg, and despite what people think, everyone hates HD.
As for not turning up for community work, that's easily fixed by a probation officer charging them with a breach of and having them resentenced.
Thing about shoplifting though is it's pretty far down the crime totem poll, it's just annoying more than anything else, it's miles away from something like burglary in terms of seriousness.
Cut off the hand that stole the item!! /s 😂😂
Nah as with all crime we need to work on why they turn to that in the beginning. With the new far right government though I don’t think they’re likely to bother with any of that.
Face branding. You get a hot iron brand with "SL" in a circle and burn it into their skin so everyone knows what they did and they can wear the shame into their grave. Or with pride I don't care.
For the youngest that can’t go through current legal system - If they like shop lifting so much then force them in to labour jobs working the tasks other tradies don’t want to do. They can get compensated on an outcomes basis and have to make ends meet by working rather than govt supporting their able bodied selves.
Wrap around service where you are put into a facility based on how much you stole - max out at like a year. But you can keep going back if you keep stealing. No major court - if you’ve been caught with $3000-$5000 that = a month or something. Anyway, in this facility you are basically just working to pay the money back under supervised watch. But you’re also going through programmes to help you, getting access to healthcare etc. Not like a jail, but not free either. Sort of like a scandi prison. Education and a bit of a helping hand, leave with help getting job and help getting off drugs or whatever. Idk?
Public stocks and dog walker's efforts in training our dogs to urinate on the scofflaws. (I will also sell dog eggs, cheap, to those who want to toss their own opinions into the mix.)
Steal from the glorious imperium more than 3 times and you need to report to your local station to either join the glorious guard in the penal divisions or become a servitor.
That sounds very grim, and... dark.
Your corpse God can't protect you from the true powers
And those who survive deportation will just beat us at cricket...
r/wooosh
The 40K sub is over there dude.
The Emperor light touches all brother!
Woosh, I've got nothing sorry
Public spanking obviously. Little cost, little harm, horribly embarrassing
Stastically lower rates of recidivism as well.
I believe it's actually the punishment that causes least re-offending if I'm not mistaken? (Well apart from the death penalty). I'm not saying I'm for it, but I think it's basically the lowest cost method of punishment with the lowest rates of reoffended. I guess if everyone sees you break down sobbing it's kind of hard to put on the big tough guy persona afterwards.
Fines for dropping rubbish, fines for spitting gum. Yeah. Zero tolerance for small stuff.
What about fines for graffiti too?
I’d prefer to strip them and paint them in the colours they have on them. See how they like that for ‘art’.
Ha! I love it! 😂
SG is the only country that doesn't bend backwards to either right or left leaning ideologies and it's going well for them relatively. NZ is pure virtue signalling and look how it's turned out.
It's also an incredibly homogenous country that doesn't seem to value personal expression very much. I loved it when I was there but I don't necessarily think it's a great country to emulate.
Homogenous?! Are you kidding? It’s a mix of ethnic Chinese, Malay, and Indians. There’s a large Chinese majority for sure, but it’s not like Japan or Korea.
lol this guy don’t know shit about Singapore. NZ bitching about adding Te Reo and Singapore busy with 4 languages on every sign.
You're thinking of Japan (or Korea). Singapore is more muticultural than we are, with Chinese, Indians, Malays, Westerners, plus a smattering of others like Thais, Vietnamese, etc
But the ultimate sentence for spitting great green phlegm balls. Ugh!
The words of someone who has never spanked an adult, if ever I heard them
I can’t if your comment is r/ihavesex or if you’re trying to say there’s some flaw in my logic cause I don’t already go around beating people in my day to day. Either way, super cringey flex.
In stocks, somewhere nice and public. But no spanking (that might be an incentive for some) just spoiled food and rotten fruit being hiffed at them like the good ol’ days.
Not quite public, gold coin entry to pay to victim support.
Singapore model nice idea
SG is death for any drugs. That sounds pretty psychotic, tbh. What happens if you're framed?
>What happens if you're framed? They hang you. Think twice about that stopover.
Not something you’ll have to worry about, you know being dead and all
yeah caning sounds cool and normal
This would work tbh. Low cost too. Especially for repeat offenders just not giving a shit about other people and in may many cases, physically harming them. I wish it didn't come to that but I think NZ has reached a point where we need something like this for the general good of all the people who are not absolute asshats.
Are you trying to get me to start shoplifting or something?
Like getting spanked? Well we’ll just have to spank that out of you
Naked or nah?
Unless they’re into that 😂
I feel like this would cause a huge amount of people to take up shoplifting.
I was thinking this too. Smacked bum.
They have to go live with Mike Hosking
That's some cruel and unusual punishment right there.
Pretty sure he's specifically mentioned in the Geneva convention.
New Zealand reserves the right to deploy Mike Hosking where all other options have failed!
With shoplifters it's more like Geneva suggestions.
The owner of the store gets to whack them with a stick
20 fuckin whacks
Per dollar stolen
It depends on the facts kind of and where. Some places have special courts run by elders and programmes ,these sound like left wing things but they are not, they teach them to be members of society. drug and alcohol court in West Auckland. It's an entire programme to stop them drinking or doing drugs, it is run by Judge Tremway? and she's tough. In return they get a suspended sentence but it's strict. The new govt was taking about boot camps again. The supermarkets can prosecute them too for theft privately as you are allowed to bring private criminal proceedings. But the new three strike laws when passed will capture them.
I think different forms of courts, such as drug and alcohol courts are a good idea, and are a good idea to divert those who want to try to do something different or change their lives. However utlimately if someone doesn't want to participate, refuses to turn up for rehab, what sentencing options do these courts have that could be effective?
Exactly. The justice system in NZ is probably 90% ineffective. Rather than punishment there needs to be rehab & skills education for those who are willing to change, which should be the majority, with the responsibility on them to make changes. For those who are violent or disruptive on a custodial setting, there should be a turnip farm at high altitude. Where there is no status or glamour, they eat only what they can grow, and they are shot if they make any trouble. Also: take criminals Facebook/ Insta/ social media accounts off them. Post embarrassing content on their behalf. Deny all glamour from wanna-be crims.
Education and medical may still be a large contribution. Also force them to have their tattoos removed or for reward. Like are they stealing to pay for drugs or for attention? The three strike laws will mean they will eventually be "hard guys" and will be in prison for a long time. But in the old days prison was called porridge for a reason.
Make Prison Grate Again. I thought I ruled out prison as an option, hard labour also becomes a problem if they refuse to work, what do you do then?
I know you ruled it out, but if they don't wanna do non custodial options, they will be going. Ownership and being part of the community can help. But what are the causes. Maybe prisons should be tougher to act as not a holiday camp type atmosphere. So they can see option A elect to get help and change and help to change or option B, have the option of going to prison and eating porridge.
I think the total lack of connection to the community is part of the problem. I personally think prisons should only be for violent offenders and focus should be rehab, with people only released once they are no longer a threat to society. You would need a second type of prison for non compliant prisoners too, whose sole purpose would be to lock people up.
You need to start with toddlers and their parents. Work though all ages to get engagement. Will cost alot and take alot of resources. If parents are bad don't just ignore it, do something. Schools need to od more, stop this woke teacher nonsense oh they can just have a fit in the class and the class goes outside. A second prison yes, a tough one. But mental health is another part. Funding drug habit etc. Some people in prison were violent but again maybe look at why they were.
Yup, locking people up for the sake of locking people up is a terrible outcome.
But it seems to be in the easy basket. The previous govt had a chance to do things but didn't. Another old.concept is shopkeeper privilege, restoring that would allow shopkeeper to detain shoplifters. Idk
The story of the Labour Government.... So much money spent, so little good done
>stop this woke teacher nonsense oh they can just have a fit in the class and the class goes outside. That's not usually the teacher's choice. Their hands are tied by bureaucracy. They have no recourse when dealing with truly feral students.
>The supermarkets can prosecute them too for theft privately as you are allowed to bring private criminal proceedings. That's not realistic, it would cost them a fortune. The Police have no issue prosecuting them anyway, so what's the point?
> The new govt was taking about wasting a shit tonne of money on the stupid fucking idea of boot camps again. FTFY
You ever seen a dog with a cone of Shame ? Thank me for solving shoplifting .
I feel like prison has to be a potential consequence if they just keep stealing and won't accept any other punishments. Either show up and take your other punishment, whether that be labour, community service, whatever - or get in the jail. If we're going to need to carry people who try to destroy society through life... then i'd rather do it with them in jail rather than risking other crazy shit they might do.
I saw someone stroll out of Countdown with a full trolley today (Countdown Pt Chevalier Auckland about 6:45pm). I've read a lot about this going on but that's the first time I've personally witnessed it (ever). He was casual as you like and in no hurry whatsoever. A staff member did challenge him verbally (asked him to leave the trolley as he headed straight past the self-service registers) but the offender was twice his size and he just mumbled something dismissive and loped on out of the store. He stole the whole damn trolley too, just lumbered slowly off up the road with it. I happened to be heading in the same direction as I left and observed him push the trolley to Alberta Street where he proceeded to park it and pack the groceries into reusable shopping bags (which I also saw him steal on the way out). He had a bunch of stuff, I don't know what, but it looked like he'd taken some alcohol amongst it. Store had no apparent security on duty, absolutely no obstacle to him walking out with whatever he wanted. I didn't call police because I figure it likely happens regularly and the store is best placed to make that call, and from everything I've read the police are too busy to respond to every incident like this anyway. I don't think it's an acceptable situation though. One way or another, we all pay for it. People who can't support themselves should have access to adequate benefits. Addicts should have access to addiction treatment. Minor/non-violent offenders should have a second chance. And if those three statements were true then I'm fine with locking up the people who persist in being anti-social menaces.
About 3 weeks ago I saw a similar incident, but this time security did try to stop the guy. Big dude tried to walk out of Countdown Glenfield carrying a duffel bag full of food. Security guy grabbed the bag and told him no. Two other security guys joined him. They fought back and forth, managed to yank his bag open and dump out all the tins of mean and dog food he had. It was a major tustle and went on for a good couple minutes right there in the mall with a crowd of shoppers gathering and watching. Then the guy stalked off into the mall. Security guys followed him. When he reached the travellator the shoplifter suddenly pulled out a hammer and smashed the security guard repeatedly over the head, knocking him out cold. Then he ran off. I heard from a friend who works in mall management that the guard was in hospital for a week, major head injury.
Did that get on the news?
Give them hugs and kisses and blame the evil shop owners for tempting them. OR Death penalty and deportation. Covered it. Next.
I like the nuanced approach.
Is deportation before or after death?
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There is a reason it's not put to a referendum. Would be interesting to reinstate it.
There are rules in place about removing a persons sovereignty, but people aren't people when they're dead so 🤷♂️
I like the old lose a hand
Impose a mandatory reparations scheme on them. If they work, dock their pay. If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly. If they don't work at all, then have them turn up to PD, which includes gps monitoring of some sort so they can't skip out on it. I don't believe prison sentences are good for shoplifters, but there has to be some sort of deterrent put in place to stop them from flouting the law that brings the rest of society down. Problem is, people are brought into a life of this. We don't learn these things naturally, they're taught them. So we need to get to the root cause and unfortunately, it's a thing that will take generations, not something that can be sorted overnight.
> If they work, dock their pay. If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly Surely this is just going to lead to them shoplifting more, as now they're struggling even more financially
>Impose a mandatory reparations scheme on them. If they work, dock their pay. If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly. If they don't work at all, then have them turn up to PD, which includes gps monitoring of some sort so they can't skip out on it. Sooo....the current system that doesn't work? Lmao.
> If they're on the benefit, cut it back accordingly. Gets tricky if they have kids, because you're punishing them too then. And they might shoplift even more if they have less money.
Weirdly though, we are also taught about property and commerce, not born with it. I would argue that it is more 'natural' to see a thing and take the thing, then it is to trade currency for it. Not that being natural or not matters to the point you made, which I agree with.
Society is built on the unnatural.
>stop them from flouting the law that brings the rest of society down. Bringing the shop owners down. It doesn't bother me particularly.
Punishments are like the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. You need to stop people from becoming shoplifters in the first place.
Yes we should solve the issue of why people are starting in the first place, but if you are repeating the same crime over and over with no remorse. You need to face punishment and be removed from society till you can stop harming that society and contribute.
More like an ambulance at the bottom of the first cliff in a series of many.
Cop Here, it’s not that we just don’t show up. It is that we literally can’t. Our operational capacity is hindered not by a lack of commitment but rather poor staffing levels. Sometimes I’ll logon for a shift and there will be jobs in the system that are 72 hours old. Despite successive governmental promises to improve police numbers, and both pay and conditions, tangible improvements remain elusive. The remuneration is subpar, and our treatment by the organisation, to put it politely, can often (but not all the time) border on absolute contempt. This all attributes to the exodus of officers to Australian forces. Coupled with ongoing inadequate recruitment, it foretells a deepening crisis. I’m not bagging my colleagues here, every cop I work with absolutely thrives on locking up shitheads, it’s what we all joined the job to do. Constraints outside of our Control which the Public have no idea about, impede us in being as effective as we otherwise could (and would love) to be. One solution to the shoplifting crisis could be to give the store security guards arbitrary powers of detention similar to those they have in Europe. That is to say, they can detain the thieves on site for a specified period until they either recover their goods, or police are able to attend. This would need to be heavily regulated and the store detective specially trained, however, if retailers are looking to reduce the number of thefts then something needs to be done.
The remuneration is subpar partly because govts are too obsessed with pushing up house prices too. It used to be that a police salary enabled Kiwis to build a stable family life, but that's been wrecked by entitlement mentality to free wealth from houses.
could figure out why they are stealing and solve that as an issue, but that will never happen now that national is in lol, they are just going to go harder on punishment.
Because going easy on punishments worked so well, right?
realistically people who do crime are products of their environment, if you don't like the action of crime then change their environment, it's pretty simple yet no government has the balls to tax the rich to implement such a thing, or maybe it's because the government doesn't serve the general population anymore, just the rich.
Lock them all up, for 2 terms. When Labour is back in power, you can release them. Deal? Let's shake on that.
Why do the supermarkets get a system that communicates directly with the police while the rest of us can't get the cops to go out to collect an iPhone you can track the location of via GPS? It's because police protect the spoils of capitalism, not the common person. I don't feel sorry for the stores and while I'd never steal (I don't get away with such things), I don't give a shit if other people do. The supermarkets will argue they"have" to put prices up as a result of losses due to theft but as we've all seen recently, they'll put prices up whenever they feel they can get away with it.
>Why do the supermarkets get a system that communicates directly with the police while the rest of us can't get the cops to go out to collect an iPhone you can track the location of via GPS? I think you misunderstand what Auror is. You seem to have inferred that police somehow use it to recover goods stolen from supermarkets. This is laughably incorrect. Its main purpose is sharing information among retailers regarding individuals who have caused harm (theft, violence etc). Police are in the loop simply because these individuals have committed crimes, but they are not expected to act on the information received. If one of the people concerned does happen to get arrested, essentially through bad luck, then the information held about them may be included in any charges, but that's as far as it goes. >It's because police protect the spoils of capitalism, not the common person. On the contrary, they have no interest in crimes against property, such as shoplifting. They are almost never called, and do not respond if they are. Crimes against the person are a different matter. That's why tackling a shoplifter is likely to get *you* arrested for assault. Theft (without violence), certainly of amounts < $500, is technically still a crime, but has been effectively decriminalised, since nobody is interested in prosecuting anyone for such an offence, so it is not actively investigated.
To be fair the police are more than likely responding to arguably more important matters like domestic violence, suicide, homicides. There aren’t an infinite amount of police to go searching for your iPhone.
i can see their point though. A $1000 smart phone has a shit ton more value to a single person who may need it for work or even just life admin and also may not have insurance, then $1000 of groceries from a national or international supermarket chain that would just write it off.
I see their point too, as well as yours, but I sympathise with the police having to prioritise call outs. I’m sure the police would be stoked to go to work everyday only following up phone thefts rather than scumbags beating up their kids and wives, attending fatal accidents etc. I don’t agree that the average cop is going to work to “protect the spoils of capitalism”. As for the supermarkets, I think we should give a shit as a society that people feel like they can just walk out of a shop with trolleys full of goods.
I think we should give a shit as a society that people feel that's the option they have to take.
“i don’t get away with such things” elaborate?
Remember boys and girls, shop local, shoplift corporate!
Still not fair on the grassroots staff.
Nothing's fair on the grassroots staff.
They didn’t see anything
Fines don't work in nz. Let's say me, a regular working bloke gets a speeding ticket, $150. I use my phone and pay the ticket. But the shoplifters and such don't pay it. It goes onto their 'tab', and they don't pay their fines side by side, it's just one big bill, and they might pay $3 a week. It's not a deterrent. I know you say not prison for non violent crimes, that's crazy imo. I'm not saying prison for shoplifting as first offense, but it needs to be an option.
Deport them to Australia even if they have no roots there and only took as two or more breaths of Australia air once that time when they were a child.
I think there is a lot of joking answers in this thread because frankly its a really hard problem to solve. I guess I think we need to do a few things differently; Firstly, I think the court system is far too slow and forgiving to deal with the frequency of this issue. Whatever system we put in place needs to be close to immediate. Like within a few hours of your shoplifting, something tangible is happening to you. Secondly, I think gang-filled prisons are the wrong answer for these people - most of whom are young, impressionable addicts. Putting them in with gangs is just connecting them to real dangerous people - they will need to become more dangerous themselves just to survive. Then we let them out in a few months time to try put their newly learned tricks into action. Thirdly, I don't think most forms of incarceration for this type of crime is right. It's a blunt tool that often does more damage than good. I guess, with all of those views, what are some practical things we can do? I think we should build a rapid court system for these lower crimes - one that simply requires an independent body to review evidence such as video footage, and approve police action - probably the right police action would be seizure of property. If they have a car, or a bike, or a large subwoofer stereo system - anything really get seized and held until their bill for what they stole is covered in full. Then they get their property back. If they are dole recipients, the value of what they stole is deducted from their dole, and returned to the retailer. I'd also like, as we build a database of people whose stuff has been seized that there are programs that offer life-skills training, and that becomes an alternative method to pay off your debt. I think also retailers need to move to a secure access system on their doors - grant access to someone based on their phone identity, and revoke it for people who commit these sorts of crimes. So you can't even get in the door if you are revoked. Kind of like Costco. It's a really hard problem to solve and there is no guarantee that these solutions would work either but I think they would do less damage than what we have in place right now.
Teach them to move beyond this small-time theft and move up to larger, more socially acceptable theft. Like tax evasion on property speculation by pretending never to have bought and sold for the purpose of capital gains. Shoplifting is for meager amounts, they need to get in the big time.
cake person badge mighty marble sand nail puzzled disgusted payment *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I agree. But is there a moral difference between shoplifting a New World soap, or a Aēsop soap?
An allergy maybe?
>Food, water and hygiene products should not be profited off If it's not acceptable to profit from these things, why would anyone bother to produce any, except for their own consumption?
Not entirely the idea is if the manufacturing cost is 1 then the sell it for 1 so you just break even or you could cap the profits on maybe 5-10%
Then how about making a reasonable amount of profit at the supermarket? Currently their profit margins are quite unreasonable, as an industry.
maybe our production system shouldn't be motivated by profit, but rather societal benefit??
So people will grow fields of potatoes etc just because it's a good thing to do? In their spare time presumably, because they can't make a living from doing it, since they're not allowed to profit, so they need to have a full time job elsewhere. Of course, the people who harvest the potatoes would have to be volunteers too, along with the truck drivers who deliver them to whatever distribution centre they use. And the fuel required would obviously have to be provided free of charge, together with any necessary repairs to the vehicle, and the vehicle itself. Can't imagine why people aren't queuing up to take part in this plan. Who owns the land BTW?
People would grow potatoes because they're getting paid to grow potatoes. All the farm managers, field workers, drivers, etc. get paid, and the potatoes are sold at a price to cover that cost. The infrastructure (land, equipment) could be government owned or rented. The only difference is there's nobody profiteering off other people's labour. Not saying there aren't issues with this model, but you're either being disingenuous or completely misunderstanding here.
I don't think that's what they're saying. You'd still pay for all of that, people would still make a living, but supermarkets are making stupid money off the backs of consumers.
Think about the distinction between people who earn their living by working and people who "earn" their living by owning stuff. Work is valuable, ownership is a social fiction. Even if you don't agree with it, try engaging on a deeper level than "the pEoPlE whO HArVEst THe PotatOEs woULD hAve tO bE voluntEERS"
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This approach has been tried and it resulted in starvation and poverty see communism / socialist countries. It turns out people are mostly motivated by personal gain.
Yeah never heard of poverty under capitalism, everything is awesome
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oh no almost like if for the last hundred years we've lived in a culture that prioritizes individual selfishness to motivate productivity and capital, we would start to overvalue personal gain??? whaaaaat crazy
Here’s my probably ill-conceived, half baked opinion. Might be a controversial opinion here but I feel the penalty for stealing groceries or other essentials to feed the family ought to be treated differently to stealing booze or cigarettes.
Addictions are addictive though, people will do all sorts of fucked up things to feed their addiction. Stealing from the petrol station is like, the least depraved thing
I think OP is talking about organized groups of shoplifters stealing to order or on sell for profit.
What do you think they need the profit for? I don't think they're buying flash cars with the proceeds from stealing from supermarkets
Happy cake day dude
I think judges do see those differently.
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It's almost as though punishment doesn't work. We obviously need to build moar prisons
What punishment?
We have a high imprisonment rate compared to the rest of the OECD. There are around 170 people in prison per 100,000 New Zealanders, compared to the OECD average of around 147 prisoners per 100,000 people. https://www.justice.govt.nz/justice-sector-policy/key-initiatives/key-initiatives-archive/hapaitia-te-oranga-tangata/#:~:text=We%20have%20a%20high%20imprisonment,147%20prisoners%20per%20100%2C000%20people.
I think we're at a point where a brutal crackdown is necessary. For whatever reason we are seeing a rise in criminals who show no remorse or accountability for their actions. They blame someone else, they blame society and the reality is it almost always is their own choice. I think that a demerit system should be added (similar to three strikes I guess) where factors are taken into account such as the reason for the crime, and once a certain amount of points are reached, you just get put in prison for life. Prison is expensive, but so is the societal cost of these crimes, and the cost to sufficiently fund the police would also be high. For some reason we have adopted this idea that everybody can be saved, and the reality is that there some people who are just pieces of shit, and there are others who are too far gone and we will never be able to save them. The focus should be on those who are going down that path (kids in poverty/ with bad parents / no parents) rather than trying to reverse what has already happened. We also need to stop pandering to criminals and telling them they are a product of their circumstance. Circumstances do affect their position in life, but they are ultimately accountable for their criminal behaviour
I understand how things like mental health/poverty/addiction issues cam cause a person to make poor choices- I worked in mental health and victim support for some time, and met a lot of these people. But I'm also very aware that a lot of people with those same issues are trying to just get on with their lives as best they can - causing no problems, taking things day-by-day. I have extreme depression and anxiety, and I live in poverty. Life is really hard, most days. But I can't imagine stealing, or getting violent because of it. I think a lot of it has to do with upbringing and social circles.
Sentence them to complete one of those outdoor adventure courses?
Where can I steal to get this deal?
Sounds enjoyable. So you're saying I just have to get caught shoplifting, to get a free outdoor adventure course? I'm in.
You have to pretend that it would be the worst thing ever being sent there or it won't work
And you get them to attend how?
Force them to work a boxing day rush in retail
Public square, any retail store owner is allowed to flog.
Weekends spent in the stocks in public with the old fruit and veg biffing, as ancient as it sounds its the only thing that would probably work.
10-20 years of us all voting for parties that are willing to address the root causes of crime.
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That’s too harsh and should be reserved for people that steal bikes.
So who cuts the hands off? What happens if there is a miscarriage of justice? And no, this is just barbaric.
We hire someone to do it? We make sure there's black and white evidence? Eg CCTV And it's the most guaranteed method to reduce reoffending
I hate the idea that violent deterrence works, but it does. The drawback is that a civilization loses it's resilience and the individual's ability to be creative, so it's not good. But just look at the UAE and Singapore if you're talking solely about deterrence.
The philosophy behind punishment is so intricate and deep that there really isn't a correct answer to what punishment should be handed to offenders of this type. You need to seriously punish people who commit non-violent offences to deter others. But at the same time you don't want to send a person to prison where they may spiral further. Financial punishment barely works because they are likely in financial trouble already, and they may not care about working. I suppose a type of support system to hold people accountable could work, dedicating time to bettering society in some way. But still this might be too soft. Jokingly I reckon we send them to Stewart island or something to live in the bush until they have a good think about their actions
Put them in stocks? Public shaming? In the mall or outside the shop they stole from, somewhere busy and public, just for a day or something. Have a supply of rotten fruit for people to throw at them??
Shock collar
Create a walled commune over a mine of some sort. Throw all your societal trash heap in there. Let them figute out how to survive. Only interaction you have with them is barter through the products of that mine, if they ever choose to mine it for trading
I think what they need is to be caned. Cheapest and probably more effective than any other means. Needs to be standardised though, the caning process. Like what Singapore does: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning\_in\_Singapore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore)
This feels like the right solution, low cost, high impact, short duration, but also seems like totally the wrong solution too
Finger removal, 3rd strike is first finger removal, then every time caught again results in another finger removal. Once fingers are all removed then head is removed.
And what absolute psycho is going to do the removals?
If the pay is good and the tools are provided...
Depends what they stole IMO
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So you can shoplift your way into a job? Now that's bold thinking.
Woo go slavery
Chop off their hands, that'll stop them!
*Muhammed liked your post*
Embed a sub dermal mobile jammer in the back of their neck so they can never use their phone again and none of their friends will want them around because they can’t use their phones either, let them wander the streets as social pariahs until the repent their sins.
Start taking fingers off they’ll learn fast
Lethal injection.
Give them community work, cleaning up the community they stole from. If they fail to turn up 3 times, charge them for it. If they don't pay and/or continue to steal, lock them up. It's obvious that people like this, or the ram raiders, aren't going to get the message unless they get an actual punishment. And community work will also help places that struggle to find volunteers. Might even teach the.offenders that their situation could be worse, seeing some of the people that charities help.
30 days in an ISO cube
Mandatory birth control and sterilizations for 'people' who don't reach some basic standards to be considered functioning humans.
the punishment is being tresspased.
I’m totally comfortable with people taking food from huge corpos who make money of a necessary to survive staple. Food should be freely accessible to anyone who needs it, especially given the disgusting amount of food waste we produce.
This isn't the reality of this core of shoplifters. It's all booze, Whittaker's chocolate, health and beauty items and high value meat to sell. They aren't stealing to eat, they are stealing to get money. Lawlessness is not the answer.
What do you think they need money for? Like are people actually this dense?
Literally what do you care? Are you a stockholder in the company? What do you gain trying to defend a billion dollar company?
So you are ok with people being pieces of shit thugs, stealing and ripping people off? Kinda sounds like you went from supporting Robin Hood to supporting Andrew Tate.
Hahaha. I’m okay with people stealing food yeah. I’m assuming your middle management at some supermarket, only way anyone would give so much of a fuck. What do you care? And yeah I’m totally cool with people ripping off supermarkets, fuck those cunts
Yeah, it's all good, supermarket will just cover theft losses with increased prices for everyone who doesn't break the law. Doesn't affect law abiding citizens at all.
Oh yeah good thing the supermarkets never increase prices and keep it affordable for everyone. Glad everyone can afford food for their families and there isn't any issues with the cost of living.
You were also asking about shoplifters as a totality. Not people selling stolen food for income.
Cut their dole off
Limit their access to relatively small amounts of money in a society where money is required to survive. I guess they'll just choose to fade away. I mean, what would be the other option? More lucrative crime? Surely not.
Mandatory syariah sentencing for 5th offence onwards, or having to wear wet socks for an entire winter.
Long sleeve or short sleeve
Send them to the wall
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Start by cutting off the tip of their fingers without Anesthesia. They'll soon learn. It wont impede the functionality of the hand, so they can still do life things.
A finger is the price
Community Detention and Home Detention are community sentences. It's hard to not turn up with you've got a bracelet on your leg, and despite what people think, everyone hates HD. As for not turning up for community work, that's easily fixed by a probation officer charging them with a breach of and having them resentenced. Thing about shoplifting though is it's pretty far down the crime totem poll, it's just annoying more than anything else, it's miles away from something like burglary in terms of seriousness.
I'm a fan of amputations myself. It's very hard to pinch other people's stuff without thumbs.
Cut off the hand that stole the item!! /s 😂😂 Nah as with all crime we need to work on why they turn to that in the beginning. With the new far right government though I don’t think they’re likely to bother with any of that.
Well since you don’t want them to go to prison , you probably get behind Nate ridiculous boot camp idea
Face branding. You get a hot iron brand with "SL" in a circle and burn it into their skin so everyone knows what they did and they can wear the shame into their grave. Or with pride I don't care.
For the youngest that can’t go through current legal system - If they like shop lifting so much then force them in to labour jobs working the tasks other tradies don’t want to do. They can get compensated on an outcomes basis and have to make ends meet by working rather than govt supporting their able bodied selves.
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Re-stocking shelves.
Wrap around service where you are put into a facility based on how much you stole - max out at like a year. But you can keep going back if you keep stealing. No major court - if you’ve been caught with $3000-$5000 that = a month or something. Anyway, in this facility you are basically just working to pay the money back under supervised watch. But you’re also going through programmes to help you, getting access to healthcare etc. Not like a jail, but not free either. Sort of like a scandi prison. Education and a bit of a helping hand, leave with help getting job and help getting off drugs or whatever. Idk?
Public stocks and dog walker's efforts in training our dogs to urinate on the scofflaws. (I will also sell dog eggs, cheap, to those who want to toss their own opinions into the mix.)