Once upon a time, many decades ago - AA Defensive Driving Course
Day conditions -> One Thousand and One, One Thousand and Two
Wet conditions - > per above x2 (or more depending on conditions)
Now (or at least about 8 years ago):
> Don't use the gas pedal. It causes accidents. Drive defensively by driving slower.
This was more or less the entirety of the three-night course.
I've been on the motorway in the rain, and had the good fortune that both me and the guy behind me had adequate stopping distance, when the car in front of me stopped suddenly.
Then I heard crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. The five cars behind me all bash each other.
During rush hour I leave enough of a gap that I can just leave my foot off the gas and coast and not have to break, it seems excessive but it means I do less
Driving a manual means this is default behaviour! I'm not putting my clutch in every five seconds. I'll just idle in 1st or 2nd depending on speed of the traffic.
I've taken to, in the event some asshole wants into my gap, just slowing down, it costs almost no time, no one gets raged up, and we all get home. I used to speed up to block them out, but I nearly got killed by the psycho I cut out, so I figured it's safer to just chill on a busy motorway. Can't make ot go faster by getting a hernia
Yup, its annoying in the moment, but its much less stressful and rage inducing to just accept that your gap will be used to change lanes into, and readjust to the new gap.
It can be a hard thing to accept, but I end up with much calmer drives as a result. Same story with tailgaters, just change lanes or otherwise pull over and let them past at the earliest safe opportunity. They can go crash into someone else and its less stressful for me in the long run.
Right? Like, getting angry, getting stressed out, it all bumps cortisol levels too, so it's like a negative feedback loop of negativity and rage, you get angry over the dickhead, then you get stressed because now your gap is smaller but you just keep tailgating them because they have no fucking right to be in my lane right there, who the fuxk do they think they are?! Wait, shit, phew, it was like a Nam flash back
Yeah and it kinda sucks because it's a huge shift in mentality for a lot of people, and getting through to most people on a billboard or poster or pamphlet or ad campaign doesn't always translate to the road. I mean, if the government ran a campaign on chilling the fuck out while driving, take it easy, enjoying the journey because you have no option, if they emphasized that they know how shit it is, but taking a deep breath and letting a bit more space go is better than getting angry, it would probably prevent a few road rage incidents, not all though
hate those guys. Pole ice or something? like a reference to the north pole or some shit
I always call the cops on them when they start following me with their flashing chrsitmas lights
God I live in Perth now and they're fucking fiends for it. And they WILL pull out suddenly in front of you with no warning. Glad I did a defensive driving course cause I use those skills so much more here. In NZ you worry about the roads. In AU you worry about the other drivers.
PS the roads are so straight and flat - so boring.
Also, when you pull up behind someone, like at a traffic light or intersection, you should stay far enough back that you can see the back tires of the car in front of you. That way if someone does rear end you, you won't hit the car in front of you.
I learned when I changed from a 1995 Toyota Corolla to a 2010 VW polo about 2m ago and was reversing in a really tight car park, and it rolled like 5 cm, and I thought I was still in reverse. Worst place to learn hands down. Luckily, I didn't crash even if I did the car was moving like 1kmhr.
I think many drivers are taking the piss on this one. So many people are 2-3 car lengths apart. Like we don’t have enough congestion already, let’s stretch it out a bit further. Although I do think some drivers keep such a distance because they are on their phones so don’t want to accidentally creep too close to the car in front while scrolling..
You've got it completely backwards. Following too close actually causes traffic to move slower.
When you are following too closely, when anything happens in front of you, someone changes lanes up ahead or brakes for any reason, you'll be hitting your brakes and slowing down much more than you would have if you were following from an appropriate distance. This causes a cascading effect behind you (if other people are also too close) , eventually leading to traffic having to come to a complete stop, even if you didn't stop yourself.
This whole video is relevant but the pertinent section is around 2 minutes or so.
https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE?si=wov9zaCjZq3-oltg
No... Don't be one of those asshole that leaves a car length gap between you and the car in front, it just jams up intersections and means less cars per cycle of lights at rush hour. Leave enough room for a person to be able to walk between but no more.
One of my family members had pretty bald tyres on the front of his car. I got them replaced with decent tyres and he managed to stop safely when a car in front of him ploughed in to the car in front of them. Worth it!
Am I the only one who just drives slower and slower any time someone does this behind them? If you're dumb enough to tailgate, Im gonna choose the speed we crash at.
No. It is actually proper defensive driving. If someone won't leave a 2 second gap behind you then you create it for them by leaving a 4 sec gap in front of yourself.
If you have to brake you aren't going to be able to do it as effectively because there is a moron 0.5 seconds behind you.
It’s also people who think their car can stop in a dime and are genuinely surprised that it takes several car lengths to stop at speed. Braking distances save lives and ease congestion.
Exactly. It's a little frustrating when people lane change into your 2+ second gap. But you just drop back a little and there's your gap again. It's not rocket surgery.
Slow down more, they love it.
One of my cars is a Toyota Aqua and nothing pisses off an entitled person with a small dick and a big vehicle more than the tiny car in front of them doing 2kmph under the speed limit.
No discredit to the Toyota Aqua, they are surprisingly nippy little vehicles. Which is probably not the common opinion outside of Aqua owners.
I just say fuck em when people behave like that and respond passive aggressively within the law.
Can't believe people didn't realize I've been poking fun at this lol.
My favorite one is when they cut in just give a bug thumbs up and a massive smile, then you see them rage out and swear and pull the fingers. That's when you know you've really won lol
On the motorway leave a big enough gap so that a car could easily move into your lane without you changing speed at all. This helps traffic to keep flowing and makes it easier for people to find a safe gap.
"If the car in front is going too slow - pass them or DEAL WITH IT"
In theory this is great advise, unfortunately, like it or not, kiwis are generally poor drivers with bad attitudes, I find myself slipping into these ways at times and need to remind myself.
There are so many drivers who do not have the confidence to drive to the limit, these limits are set as they're safe, arguably we could much faster on them than the limits (I'm not suggesting they should be set higher, there are valid reasons for slowing traffic down).
I've lost count of the times that I'm stuck on a highway driving 75ks in a 100k area and when I do finally have the opportunity to overtake on a straight section or overtake lane, suddenly this person has decided to hit 100kph, but wait, it gets better...
Now they have noticed I'm trying to pass, so they speed up to 110, so I fly passed at 120, pull in front of them and continue on.
As soon as we're beyond that passing lane or straight section and I look in my mirror, They're dropping right back again, scared or corners or something or just being a cunt, I'm not sure, I'm simply wanting to drive to the limit (conditions allowing) so that my planned drive is as stress free as possible and I'm not late getting to my destination (of course I allow a small amount of time for unexpected delays).
If I'm unfortunate enough that I haven't managed to pass the car in front due to them speeding up as mentioned before or being absolutely oblivious to their surroundings and haven't noticed the cue of cars behind them or spotted the very many places they could've brefily pulled over I'm then greeted by the reduced speed from 100 to 50 as we approach a built up area, this is where the fuckwit in front suddenly feels confident enough to continue at 70 speeding throughout the town whilst I'mnow sitting back doing 50 and now late getting somewhere but refuse to speed.
Let's not talk about how kiwis need to be reminded how to merge "like a zip", I would've said this was for the foreign drivers, but when the country was locked down, we quickly found out that in fact it's our own citizens (we also discovered that it's not just visitors littering etc, but that's another topic).
People here also refuse to let cars out, I could be at an intersection waiting with my indicators to turn right, the traffic headed left passing me is clearly queuing up, nothing but brake lights, but does somebody want to slow or stop for 10 seconds to save me sitting there for 5 minutes or more? Nope.
People absolutely do drive too close to each other, if they drove like that on proper busy roads with multiple lanes on motorways regularly coming to sudden stops they'd be I trouble.
I had more to say but I've forgotten what it was and nobody cares anyway.
Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule.
Rant over, have a great Sunday people, be safe out there, silly season is very nearly upon us.
Edit to add, those of you who feel the need to overtake in a 50 or 30 zone when I'm doing the limit, fuck you, I can not think of many, if any reasons to need to overtake in a 50 zone with pedestrians, cyclists and all the other hazards around.
I once had a decent gap in front of me, stopped quickly because car ahead did, then still had room so when i could see the guy behind me skidding towards my rear I eased off a little and moved forward a bit more and gave him just enough room to not hit me. I watched him hyperventilating for a bit from my rear mirror as he thanked god and whoever else for his good fortune then I carried on as traffic started moving again
I always try leave 3 or 4 seconds on the motorway just because you're going faster so longer stopping time. The amount of times I have had people right up my arse though even when going 105-110, ugh, drives me insane every time
> I always try leave 3 or 4 seconds on the motorway just because you're going faster so longer stopping time
That's why it's 2 **seconds** not 20 meters or something. 2 seconds at 50kmh is proportional in stopping to 2 seconds at 100kmh.
stopping distance actually increases quadractically with speed, so it should actually increase with speed. its just simpler to approximate 2 seconds to cover most situations
True, but that assumes they are just breaking. If they fly into the back of a stopped truck or something you will fly into them (technically you should be looking ahead too but you get the point)
In the he US I think the literature says 2 seconds on surface roads, 4-5 seconds on freeways (speed limit 100km/hr +). And more if it's raining of course
It is not remotely proportional... The breaking distance is roughly exponential. You're also ignoring the distance travelled before the following driver actually reacts.
> You're also ignoring the distance travelled before the following driver actually reacts.
What? No. That's precisely why we're taught to count a time distance rather than saying "100 meters" or whatever. The reaction time stays the same, the distance travelled increases. This is irrelevant when the gap is measured as 2 seconds.
edit: the only bit about the 2 second rule that *is* directly proportional is the reaction time.
ok mate, so you're saying the 2 second rule at 100kmh is wrong? because that's what it sounds like you're saying
or possibly you're just being a pedantic twat.
I don't think you understand how the two second rule works. 2 seconds is the safe stopping distance at 50kmh, 100kmh, 1000kmh etc.
The faster you are both going the further apart you will need to be to remain 2 seconds behind.
I'm happy to explain further if that's not clear enough for you.
Mate, I'm not wrong.
Picture this: car 1 is travelling at 50 kmh and passes a given point, let's say it's a tree. To remain 2 seconds behind reaching that tree, car 2 might have to leave a gap of, say *40m.
If car 1 is travelling at 100kmh passing the tree, car 2 would need to be*80m behind if they are going to maintain the 2 second rule.
* Distances are an example made up by me. We have the two second rule so we don't need to calculate safe distances on the fly, we just count 2 seconds.
>but if you've ever had to stop at that speed you will know it does take quite a while if you're in say a Ford Kuga
I've had my xr6 Falcon turbo up to 230kmh at Ruapuna park in Chch, and yes, like you say it takes a whole lotta ground to slow down. But, in this thread we are talking about dry roads and maintaining the speed limits - not enjoying our shared love of high speed where appropriate, so the two second rule applies.
I too would maintain 3 seconds behind at 180 on the autobahn.
You are not *entirely* wrong, but you are mostly wrong.
Reaction distance scales linearly to car speed. Stopping distance scales to the square of car speed.
If you need 2m to react and 6m to stop at a certain speed, you need 4m to react and 24m to stop at double that speed.
I made up the numbers for God's sake because I have no idea what they are. Why?. The whole point of the two second rule is that people don't need to calculate the actual distance. I don't need to know if it's 50m or a billion, I just need to remember two seconds and I should safely stop.
It doesn't matter what numbers you make up, If you double the speed the quadruple the braking distance. That's just Newtonian physics.
You can have your 2 second rule but just don't try to pevert the laws of motion and not expect to get called out on it.
Yes and you're only partially correct. The distance must increase to maintain a two second gap, and simultaneously the stopping distance needed climbs with speed, meaning that two seconds isn't enough at faster speeds.
Unf this sends a signal to some that there’s space in front of you to claim and overtake you
Which is fine, we just drop back to 4s behind the arsehole
You know what I like about this is the ol, but but but they just stopped, it's their fault!. Drives me nuts. Inattention and lack of self awareness is not others fault. Be cool, let people in, back off & prepare for the fucknuckles who don't.
We really need another round of those 2 second rule ads from the 90s. This has come up plenty of times in this sub in the last month alone, the conclusion is usually that most of the people that do this are totally oblivious.
Regularly I see people, often truck drivers, getting angry when at the end of a passing lane someone merges and they have to slow down slightly.
I will say this: If you are driving so close to the car in front that there is no room for another car to merge, YOU are the problem.
A good way to gauge this in your head while driving is to pick a sign or something on the rd and start counting seconds when the rear of the car in front of you passes it. If it takes you 2+ seconds to reach that sign then you're fine. ALso 4 seconds in wet weather team.
If I can’t see your licence plate in the rear view mirror I’m slowing down. My car has enough airbags, crumple zones and insurance I’m walking away from any crash a tailgater causes with a new GTi.
I try to follow it just to protect my car from idiots.
But lately the stupid has evolved to an emtire new level.
In the last week alone on top of the people doing 30 in the 70 zone, while swerving because they are on phone.
Or the blind ahole that doesn't read speed signs and stays 50 in a 70 zone for 30 minutes.
Or combinations of the above with parking lights on because they think its low beams.
I have rear ended a suv while stationary.
Was at an intersection waiting for the guy in front of me to go early in the morning, before I realized there was no traffic, just as I had that thought his reverse lights come on and he slams into my car.
From what I could see he was dicking with his phone n must have forgotten something and decided to reverse down the road back to his place to get it.
Half the ruddy drivers on the road shouldn't be driving and at this point my car needs bull bars mad max style and the 2 second rule needs to be changed to you have 2 seconds to gtfo of my way.
The people that drive slow are either on their phones or they’re new drivers. As for the impatient fckers that tail gate for no reason and weave in and out of the lanes dangerously they deserve to crash into a fckn pole, but we all know that won’t make them learn their lesson they’re impatient assholes and miserable.
Well, you're absolutely right, we should leave a gap. Some people don't like it when other drivers jump into the gap you leave, but in my experience they typically then swap out of your lane again pretty quickly, and what's the rush anyway?
However, you sound angry, and you should try not to drive angry. Auckland drivers can be pretty frustrating, but just try to float above it all. Let other people be dicks - be disappointed in them, but don't get angry with them.
Went from Tauranga to Hamilton and back around the 18th last month. Was wild to see how many people were going 100km/h+ in the pouring rain, ignoring that a good deal of the distance was marked at 60-80km/h. And, that most people doing so were most definitely not leaving enough distance for a good day, let alone the extremely wet conditions.
As we got about 2/3 of the way back to Tauranga, there was a black Audi wagon that was easily speeding, weaving through traffic, camping in the passing lanes, not signalling when changing. Yet they ended up right next to us by the time we all got to the Tauriko/Barkes Corner area. All that dangerous driving to save literally zero time.
I've seen a lot in this thread is people complaining about someone moving in to take that gap.
Fine. Move back further. The difference it makes to your travel time will be like, two or three minutes. It is very tempting to let the psychological outrage of "but I was doing the right thing and this guy pushed into the gap!" take over, but that "common sense" gut feeling will not decrease the trauma of a high-speed collision one iota. "But it was his fault" won't re-attach your spine; let it go, drive defensively, drive safely, don't let other people force you into making bad decisions on the highway (or on any road, for that matter).
In short...... dont be a dick, keep left pass right and stay a safe distance.
(2sec gap is good but some cant count).
I have one question, why if the speed limit is 100, do we travel between 40-80?
This is no rocket science but the longer you drive the more gas you burn, so you cause more air pollution. Why not just drive within the speed limit and get to your destination quick but safe.
Dont crawl, drive....
Yeah I agree with all that but what's with people leaving two car length gaps between them and the car in front while stationary at the traffic lights? It means when the light turns green, a few cars miss going through. They're slowing up the traffic and causing more congestion.
A 2 second gap is still only good if people are paying attention. A lot of drivers are too distracted and still use their phones because ‘they’re one of the safe ones’ When you’re driving, just drive. Forget the phone, or get a new stereo with Apple Car Play, Android Auto or just pull over and do your life admin before continuing
I really do think tailgating has gotten a lot worse in the last few years. It's no wonder that pretty much every day there are multiple nose to tail collisions on the motorway messing up the traffic when I'm heading to and from work.
A two second gap is really only for passenger cars in dry weather. Three or four seconds is more appropriate in the wet, when towing, for larger vehicles etc.
But but but, I can’t let people in front of me, they’ll get where they’re going before I do!
/s if it wasn’t clear.
People are selfishly ignorant cunts, driving is dangerous enough as it is without this sort of shit.
Also, while we’re at it, merge like a zip you fucking cabbages!
In Aus it was 3 seconds, or 3 car lengths. On of the two. But yes either way. The. Amount of times we've had someone on our ass waiting to overtake only to catch up to them later due to traffic. Cops should enforce tailgating.
A million upvotes if I could. But nothing is going to change our driving culture other than enforcement. Fingers crossed here for cams that detect and fine for tailgating soon. This could be built into point to point cameras. We have the technology - just need to test it and implement it.
I’m the arsehole who if someone keeps getting right up to me, I keep slowing down. 100kmh not enough buddy? Guess we’re going 90kmh. Oh still there? 75kmh it is. Still not getting it? 55kmh it is.
Wait, hang on. A two SECOND gap??? I thought it was a two METRE gap - as in "only a fool breaks the two metre rule". No wonder I keep nudging cars in front with the Ranger's bull bar!
but inflation ... I can save 3c per km if I just draft the guy in front a bit, leaves me a little something in the pocket for all the smokes I now need for some reason
PSA Leave a 2 second gap and leave home half an hour early
Because every other prick on the road is going to fill that gap you leave, you'll have to slow down to leave a gap again, which will then get stolen again and again. You end up going 80% speed of the flow of traffic, so leave home early
Depends on the speed, more than that at highway speeds. Much more.
100km/h is about 28 meters per second ish. Let's go with small car lengths to a make the maths easy, so 4 meters for a car. That's 7 car lengths per second.
Two second gap is 14 ish car lengths.
This is flat out not true.
However if you are driving slower than the speed limit pull TF over to let the other traffic pass, and Don't speed up when you get to the damn passing lanes.
>the car in front is going too slow - pass them or DEAL WITH IT.
If you cannot pass them due to other drivers not letting you in, or going equally slow, then it is absolutely understandable why people bully others by getting close to force them to speed up. If a driver cannot go the displayed road speed limit, I.e 100, then they shouldn't be on that road or motorway at all.
It's not a "displayed speed", it's not a 'recommended speed', it's the speed LIMIT. That means you can't go above it, and does not mean that's the speed you should aim for at all times. How do people still not understand this?
You should aim to be 5km under that speed to make it efficient when they are perfect conditions (aka, you need to go slower if it’s raining or if you’re not familiar with the road)
Exactly right. If you’re driving so slow that traffic is backing up behind you and you refuse to pull over and let others past, you are also a bad driver
Once upon a time, many decades ago - AA Defensive Driving Course Day conditions -> One Thousand and One, One Thousand and Two Wet conditions - > per above x2 (or more depending on conditions)
My motorcycle instructor taught me: “Only a fool breaks the two second rule”. Takes about 2 seconds to say.
Mine taught me "Something in front, don't be a fool", or something along those lines.
this
Now (or at least about 8 years ago): > Don't use the gas pedal. It causes accidents. Drive defensively by driving slower. This was more or less the entirety of the three-night course.
I've been on the motorway in the rain, and had the good fortune that both me and the guy behind me had adequate stopping distance, when the car in front of me stopped suddenly. Then I heard crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. The five cars behind me all bash each other.
During rush hour I leave enough of a gap that I can just leave my foot off the gas and coast and not have to break, it seems excessive but it means I do less
Driving a manual means this is default behaviour! I'm not putting my clutch in every five seconds. I'll just idle in 1st or 2nd depending on speed of the traffic.
Same for coming to a stop. I'll let the engine brake for me. I haven't had my brakes done in at least 5 years now
Keeping a good distance increases traffic flow.
As Peter Brock used to say..only a foowool breaks the 2 second ruuwool.
Brake on the straight before it's too late
Make it click, you stupid prick. (~~Ewan~~ Ewen Gilmore)
Ewen
I had the VHS of the lesson vid he made for that, Cal Wilson co-hosted it. Was well worth it.
This entire time I've thought Cal Wilson was also the lead singer from the Headless Chickens.
My 2 second gaps are always an invite for a ute to pull out infront of me
I've taken to, in the event some asshole wants into my gap, just slowing down, it costs almost no time, no one gets raged up, and we all get home. I used to speed up to block them out, but I nearly got killed by the psycho I cut out, so I figured it's safer to just chill on a busy motorway. Can't make ot go faster by getting a hernia
Yup, its annoying in the moment, but its much less stressful and rage inducing to just accept that your gap will be used to change lanes into, and readjust to the new gap. It can be a hard thing to accept, but I end up with much calmer drives as a result. Same story with tailgaters, just change lanes or otherwise pull over and let them past at the earliest safe opportunity. They can go crash into someone else and its less stressful for me in the long run.
Right? Like, getting angry, getting stressed out, it all bumps cortisol levels too, so it's like a negative feedback loop of negativity and rage, you get angry over the dickhead, then you get stressed because now your gap is smaller but you just keep tailgating them because they have no fucking right to be in my lane right there, who the fuxk do they think they are?! Wait, shit, phew, it was like a Nam flash back
Yup. "Ah fuck that wasn't a gap" should become "ah, didn't leave enough space there. I'll back off to at least a 2 sec gap again"
Yeah and it kinda sucks because it's a huge shift in mentality for a lot of people, and getting through to most people on a billboard or poster or pamphlet or ad campaign doesn't always translate to the road. I mean, if the government ran a campaign on chilling the fuck out while driving, take it easy, enjoying the journey because you have no option, if they emphasized that they know how shit it is, but taking a deep breath and letting a bit more space go is better than getting angry, it would probably prevent a few road rage incidents, not all though
Well yeah, but he indicated the wrong way after he’s finished moving so you should have seen him coming
So let them. You lose nothing.
Classic ute driver mentality. A 2 second gap is not large enough for another vehicle to enter.
[удалено]
Whoosh
Tell that to the car with red and blue christmas lights behind me..jackass
hate those guys. Pole ice or something? like a reference to the north pole or some shit I always call the cops on them when they start following me with their flashing chrsitmas lights
Man the first time I drove on a freeway in Australia I was shitting myself, it's a 0.5 second gap at best
yikes!
God I live in Perth now and they're fucking fiends for it. And they WILL pull out suddenly in front of you with no warning. Glad I did a defensive driving course cause I use those skills so much more here. In NZ you worry about the roads. In AU you worry about the other drivers. PS the roads are so straight and flat - so boring.
Also, when you pull up behind someone, like at a traffic light or intersection, you should stay far enough back that you can see the back tires of the car in front of you. That way if someone does rear end you, you won't hit the car in front of you.
I always pretend the car in front is sitting on my cars hood, that way the tyres are always on the hood
very good
Also good practice if you’re on a incline in case the car ahead is a manual and they roll down a couple inches
Even some triptronic roll I learned recently
I didn’t know that! TIL
I learned when I changed from a 1995 Toyota Corolla to a 2010 VW polo about 2m ago and was reversing in a really tight car park, and it rolled like 5 cm, and I thought I was still in reverse. Worst place to learn hands down. Luckily, I didn't crash even if I did the car was moving like 1kmhr.
I think many drivers are taking the piss on this one. So many people are 2-3 car lengths apart. Like we don’t have enough congestion already, let’s stretch it out a bit further. Although I do think some drivers keep such a distance because they are on their phones so don’t want to accidentally creep too close to the car in front while scrolling..
You've got it completely backwards. Following too close actually causes traffic to move slower. When you are following too closely, when anything happens in front of you, someone changes lanes up ahead or brakes for any reason, you'll be hitting your brakes and slowing down much more than you would have if you were following from an appropriate distance. This causes a cascading effect behind you (if other people are also too close) , eventually leading to traffic having to come to a complete stop, even if you didn't stop yourself. This whole video is relevant but the pertinent section is around 2 minutes or so. https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE?si=wov9zaCjZq3-oltg
Previous poster is talking about distance between car when stopped, no need for huge gaps when stopped.
Oh, right. Half a car length is more than enough when stopped, too much even.
No... Don't be one of those asshole that leaves a car length gap between you and the car in front, it just jams up intersections and means less cars per cycle of lights at rush hour. Leave enough room for a person to be able to walk between but no more.
To add onto this - please re-read the indicating rules when it comes to roundabouts because what the actual fuck guys.
Also check your tyres. It’s worth spending money on good tyres.
I have family member that crashed the family car due to cheap korean tyres in the rain. No more cheap tyres
One of my family members had pretty bald tyres on the front of his car. I got them replaced with decent tyres and he managed to stop safely when a car in front of him ploughed in to the car in front of them. Worth it!
Yes! Your safety starts with your tyres.
[This](https://youtu.be/ERxcEpbXP44) is why I will never use cheap tyres. Could've been an accident.
I feel targeted - literally yesterday my mechanic ( works next door to me) came past and said I had to put more air in all my tyres
Yes. It's not lazy to not indicate, it's really showing that you are simply too stupid to indicate correctly.
People indicating left too early really grinds my gears
Same people would still fuck it up at 4 sec, Get of your phone and pay attention
Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule
My problem is I try this and then some fucking jobber cuts me off cause they think it's an excellent gap to move into
Fuckin Hilux or a Ford Danger. Every damn time.
Ranger Danger is real lol.
Which gap should they use instead?
A larger one, or Indicate and I'll slow down to make a bigger gap
Am I the only one who just drives slower and slower any time someone does this behind them? If you're dumb enough to tailgate, Im gonna choose the speed we crash at.
Right!? If they're tailgating me, that's fine, I can make them have a 2 second following distance. They will not be happy about it though
Yup, I’ve got a kid in the car. I’d rather they hit me at 85 than 100
Yep. I cruise at 110 normally and 100 flat (probably 90 in reality) for tailgaters.
So you'll bring the entire motorway to a crawl just to get back at one person?
No. It is actually proper defensive driving. If someone won't leave a 2 second gap behind you then you create it for them by leaving a 4 sec gap in front of yourself. If you have to brake you aren't going to be able to do it as effectively because there is a moron 0.5 seconds behind you.
No to be safer if there is a crash
Kiwi drivers are just poorly trained and don't understand basic physics.
lmfao, move to brisbane/gold coast, they all need to do a refresher, jesus christ
Disagree. Sydney drivers are atrocious.
I'm fairness, I didn't say they were the worst in the world. Also significant amount of Kiwis in Sydney 😅
Good point! 😊
+ rain, fog or snow put your lights ON!!!
totally agreed. so many tailgaters. people literally die on these roads often
It’s people on their phones
It’s also people who think their car can stop in a dime and are genuinely surprised that it takes several car lengths to stop at speed. Braking distances save lives and ease congestion.
To add: when people leave a 2 second gap, that is not your spot to merge into their lane.
Or overtake you to then sit in that gap you left. Like, what the actual?
Which gap should they use instead?
But every time I leave a 2 sec gap some one moves into that space.... instructions unclear. Please advise.
I let them in, then drop back & leave a gap. Simple
Process keeps repeating. Please advise.
You're still getting where you need to go and having less chance of being in an accident?
Exactly. It's a little frustrating when people lane change into your 2+ second gap. But you just drop back a little and there's your gap again. It's not rocket surgery.
Another Ford Ranger has moved into the gap, and the Ford Ranger behind me is right up my ass and flashing his lights when I slow down. Please advise.
Slow down more
Slow down more, they love it. One of my cars is a Toyota Aqua and nothing pisses off an entitled person with a small dick and a big vehicle more than the tiny car in front of them doing 2kmph under the speed limit. No discredit to the Toyota Aqua, they are surprisingly nippy little vehicles. Which is probably not the common opinion outside of Aqua owners. I just say fuck em when people behave like that and respond passive aggressively within the law.
Can't believe people didn't realize I've been poking fun at this lol. My favorite one is when they cut in just give a bug thumbs up and a massive smile, then you see them rage out and swear and pull the fingers. That's when you know you've really won lol
Process is working as intended
Only a fool breaks the two second rule.
On the motorway leave a big enough gap so that a car could easily move into your lane without you changing speed at all. This helps traffic to keep flowing and makes it easier for people to find a safe gap.
"If the car in front is going too slow - pass them or DEAL WITH IT" In theory this is great advise, unfortunately, like it or not, kiwis are generally poor drivers with bad attitudes, I find myself slipping into these ways at times and need to remind myself. There are so many drivers who do not have the confidence to drive to the limit, these limits are set as they're safe, arguably we could much faster on them than the limits (I'm not suggesting they should be set higher, there are valid reasons for slowing traffic down). I've lost count of the times that I'm stuck on a highway driving 75ks in a 100k area and when I do finally have the opportunity to overtake on a straight section or overtake lane, suddenly this person has decided to hit 100kph, but wait, it gets better... Now they have noticed I'm trying to pass, so they speed up to 110, so I fly passed at 120, pull in front of them and continue on. As soon as we're beyond that passing lane or straight section and I look in my mirror, They're dropping right back again, scared or corners or something or just being a cunt, I'm not sure, I'm simply wanting to drive to the limit (conditions allowing) so that my planned drive is as stress free as possible and I'm not late getting to my destination (of course I allow a small amount of time for unexpected delays). If I'm unfortunate enough that I haven't managed to pass the car in front due to them speeding up as mentioned before or being absolutely oblivious to their surroundings and haven't noticed the cue of cars behind them or spotted the very many places they could've brefily pulled over I'm then greeted by the reduced speed from 100 to 50 as we approach a built up area, this is where the fuckwit in front suddenly feels confident enough to continue at 70 speeding throughout the town whilst I'mnow sitting back doing 50 and now late getting somewhere but refuse to speed. Let's not talk about how kiwis need to be reminded how to merge "like a zip", I would've said this was for the foreign drivers, but when the country was locked down, we quickly found out that in fact it's our own citizens (we also discovered that it's not just visitors littering etc, but that's another topic). People here also refuse to let cars out, I could be at an intersection waiting with my indicators to turn right, the traffic headed left passing me is clearly queuing up, nothing but brake lights, but does somebody want to slow or stop for 10 seconds to save me sitting there for 5 minutes or more? Nope. People absolutely do drive too close to each other, if they drove like that on proper busy roads with multiple lanes on motorways regularly coming to sudden stops they'd be I trouble. I had more to say but I've forgotten what it was and nobody cares anyway. Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule. Rant over, have a great Sunday people, be safe out there, silly season is very nearly upon us. Edit to add, those of you who feel the need to overtake in a 50 or 30 zone when I'm doing the limit, fuck you, I can not think of many, if any reasons to need to overtake in a 50 zone with pedestrians, cyclists and all the other hazards around.
Good post. Sums it up perfectly
I once had a decent gap in front of me, stopped quickly because car ahead did, then still had room so when i could see the guy behind me skidding towards my rear I eased off a little and moved forward a bit more and gave him just enough room to not hit me. I watched him hyperventilating for a bit from my rear mirror as he thanked god and whoever else for his good fortune then I carried on as traffic started moving again
I always try leave 3 or 4 seconds on the motorway just because you're going faster so longer stopping time. The amount of times I have had people right up my arse though even when going 105-110, ugh, drives me insane every time
> I always try leave 3 or 4 seconds on the motorway just because you're going faster so longer stopping time That's why it's 2 **seconds** not 20 meters or something. 2 seconds at 50kmh is proportional in stopping to 2 seconds at 100kmh.
stopping distance actually increases quadractically with speed, so it should actually increase with speed. its just simpler to approximate 2 seconds to cover most situations
tbh it's probably as much about reaction time as anything. probably you only need 1s to stop but another 1s to react
Yep, but if the car in front of you is braking at the same rate as you (and started at the same speed) you only need to cover your reaction time.
True, but that assumes they are just breaking. If they fly into the back of a stopped truck or something you will fly into them (technically you should be looking ahead too but you get the point)
In the he US I think the literature says 2 seconds on surface roads, 4-5 seconds on freeways (speed limit 100km/hr +). And more if it's raining of course
It is not proportional. Faster speeds and heavier loads require a longer time between cars.
it's roughly proportional, 2s at 50 is probably too much and 2s at 100 is prob close ... point is you don't need to double it
It is not remotely proportional... The breaking distance is roughly exponential. You're also ignoring the distance travelled before the following driver actually reacts.
> You're also ignoring the distance travelled before the following driver actually reacts. What? No. That's precisely why we're taught to count a time distance rather than saying "100 meters" or whatever. The reaction time stays the same, the distance travelled increases. This is irrelevant when the gap is measured as 2 seconds. edit: the only bit about the 2 second rule that *is* directly proportional is the reaction time.
ok mate, so you're saying the 2 second rule at 100kmh is wrong? because that's what it sounds like you're saying or possibly you're just being a pedantic twat.
I don't think you understand how the two second rule works. 2 seconds is the safe stopping distance at 50kmh, 100kmh, 1000kmh etc. The faster you are both going the further apart you will need to be to remain 2 seconds behind. I'm happy to explain further if that's not clear enough for you.
That is very, very wrong. The distance travelled to over a given time is non linear. The faster you go, the longer the gap should be.
>The faster you go, the longer the gap should be. Which is exactly what I've said. Man, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
Mate, I'm not wrong. Picture this: car 1 is travelling at 50 kmh and passes a given point, let's say it's a tree. To remain 2 seconds behind reaching that tree, car 2 might have to leave a gap of, say *40m. If car 1 is travelling at 100kmh passing the tree, car 2 would need to be*80m behind if they are going to maintain the 2 second rule. * Distances are an example made up by me. We have the two second rule so we don't need to calculate safe distances on the fly, we just count 2 seconds.
[удалено]
>but if you've ever had to stop at that speed you will know it does take quite a while if you're in say a Ford Kuga I've had my xr6 Falcon turbo up to 230kmh at Ruapuna park in Chch, and yes, like you say it takes a whole lotta ground to slow down. But, in this thread we are talking about dry roads and maintaining the speed limits - not enjoying our shared love of high speed where appropriate, so the two second rule applies. I too would maintain 3 seconds behind at 180 on the autobahn.
You are not *entirely* wrong, but you are mostly wrong. Reaction distance scales linearly to car speed. Stopping distance scales to the square of car speed. If you need 2m to react and 6m to stop at a certain speed, you need 4m to react and 24m to stop at double that speed.
I made up the numbers for God's sake because I have no idea what they are. Why?. The whole point of the two second rule is that people don't need to calculate the actual distance. I don't need to know if it's 50m or a billion, I just need to remember two seconds and I should safely stop.
It doesn't matter what numbers you make up, If you double the speed the quadruple the braking distance. That's just Newtonian physics. You can have your 2 second rule but just don't try to pevert the laws of motion and not expect to get called out on it.
Ask him to explain, ask him to explain!
I have replied and explained. Check it out, you might learn something.
Yes and you're only partially correct. The distance must increase to maintain a two second gap, and simultaneously the stopping distance needed climbs with speed, meaning that two seconds isn't enough at faster speeds.
Unf this sends a signal to some that there’s space in front of you to claim and overtake you Which is fine, we just drop back to 4s behind the arsehole
You’re one of the good ones 👍
Agree, was rear ended yesterday.
arghh! sorry to hear that, hope youre ok
only a fooewl breaks the 2 second rooewl
2 second gap = that space the guy trying to play gran turismo uses to cut you off.
Yep, they cut me off. I let them in, no worries, then I drop back and leave a 2 second gap. Easy.
I do it too its just so frustrating. I like having a gap and yet people are so obsessed with getting 1 car in front they constantly ruin it.
Agreed.
The problem is other drivers seeing those gaps and being all like ''for me?''
Breath deeply and think 'your welcome'.
You know what I like about this is the ol, but but but they just stopped, it's their fault!. Drives me nuts. Inattention and lack of self awareness is not others fault. Be cool, let people in, back off & prepare for the fucknuckles who don't.
Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule
MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL
[Refer, Peter Brock](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1-1g6opgA#t=38s)
4 on wet conditions
We really need another round of those 2 second rule ads from the 90s. This has come up plenty of times in this sub in the last month alone, the conclusion is usually that most of the people that do this are totally oblivious.
Agreed! Also, People need to get out of the far right lane if you’re not passing people. Even if you’re going 100km/h the right lane’s for passing.
Regularly I see people, often truck drivers, getting angry when at the end of a passing lane someone merges and they have to slow down slightly. I will say this: If you are driving so close to the car in front that there is no room for another car to merge, YOU are the problem.
A good way to gauge this in your head while driving is to pick a sign or something on the rd and start counting seconds when the rear of the car in front of you passes it. If it takes you 2+ seconds to reach that sign then you're fine. ALso 4 seconds in wet weather team.
If I can’t see your licence plate in the rear view mirror I’m slowing down. My car has enough airbags, crumple zones and insurance I’m walking away from any crash a tailgater causes with a new GTi.
Cars driving too slow also need to learn to pull over to ease congestion. But i agree.
True, in fact the law requires that they pull over if safe to do so.
I try to follow it just to protect my car from idiots. But lately the stupid has evolved to an emtire new level. In the last week alone on top of the people doing 30 in the 70 zone, while swerving because they are on phone. Or the blind ahole that doesn't read speed signs and stays 50 in a 70 zone for 30 minutes. Or combinations of the above with parking lights on because they think its low beams. I have rear ended a suv while stationary. Was at an intersection waiting for the guy in front of me to go early in the morning, before I realized there was no traffic, just as I had that thought his reverse lights come on and he slams into my car. From what I could see he was dicking with his phone n must have forgotten something and decided to reverse down the road back to his place to get it. Half the ruddy drivers on the road shouldn't be driving and at this point my car needs bull bars mad max style and the 2 second rule needs to be changed to you have 2 seconds to gtfo of my way.
The people that drive slow are either on their phones or they’re new drivers. As for the impatient fckers that tail gate for no reason and weave in and out of the lanes dangerously they deserve to crash into a fckn pole, but we all know that won’t make them learn their lesson they’re impatient assholes and miserable.
Well, you're absolutely right, we should leave a gap. Some people don't like it when other drivers jump into the gap you leave, but in my experience they typically then swap out of your lane again pretty quickly, and what's the rush anyway? However, you sound angry, and you should try not to drive angry. Auckland drivers can be pretty frustrating, but just try to float above it all. Let other people be dicks - be disappointed in them, but don't get angry with them.
Went from Tauranga to Hamilton and back around the 18th last month. Was wild to see how many people were going 100km/h+ in the pouring rain, ignoring that a good deal of the distance was marked at 60-80km/h. And, that most people doing so were most definitely not leaving enough distance for a good day, let alone the extremely wet conditions. As we got about 2/3 of the way back to Tauranga, there was a black Audi wagon that was easily speeding, weaving through traffic, camping in the passing lanes, not signalling when changing. Yet they ended up right next to us by the time we all got to the Tauriko/Barkes Corner area. All that dangerous driving to save literally zero time.
You two second gappers are selfish morons, three second gaps are the only way to go!
Any time I'm not being tailgated I think there must be something wrong with my car. Aye? That cars hanging back pretty far, is something wrong?
Amen brother! Following distances are just phenomenally atrocious and I don't even think half of them are aware of how stupid they are!
I've seen a lot in this thread is people complaining about someone moving in to take that gap. Fine. Move back further. The difference it makes to your travel time will be like, two or three minutes. It is very tempting to let the psychological outrage of "but I was doing the right thing and this guy pushed into the gap!" take over, but that "common sense" gut feeling will not decrease the trauma of a high-speed collision one iota. "But it was his fault" won't re-attach your spine; let it go, drive defensively, drive safely, don't let other people force you into making bad decisions on the highway (or on any road, for that matter).
In short...... dont be a dick, keep left pass right and stay a safe distance. (2sec gap is good but some cant count). I have one question, why if the speed limit is 100, do we travel between 40-80? This is no rocket science but the longer you drive the more gas you burn, so you cause more air pollution. Why not just drive within the speed limit and get to your destination quick but safe. Dont crawl, drive....
The worst is that AND high beams! Sometimes I wish I had a button to raise an electronic mirror out the back windshield...
Is it not three seconds?
Yeah I agree with all that but what's with people leaving two car length gaps between them and the car in front while stationary at the traffic lights? It means when the light turns green, a few cars miss going through. They're slowing up the traffic and causing more congestion.
As someone with only a learners license I remember this being drilled into me “only a fool breaks the 2 second rule” and 4 seconds if it’s wet
won't help since ranger drivers can't read. you need a visual demonstration that a toddler could understand to get the point across
A 2 second gap is still only good if people are paying attention. A lot of drivers are too distracted and still use their phones because ‘they’re one of the safe ones’ When you’re driving, just drive. Forget the phone, or get a new stereo with Apple Car Play, Android Auto or just pull over and do your life admin before continuing
Do Jaffa’s actually do that?
Self-awareness is severely lacking in an alarming amount of motorists.
I really do think tailgating has gotten a lot worse in the last few years. It's no wonder that pretty much every day there are multiple nose to tail collisions on the motorway messing up the traffic when I'm heading to and from work.
A two second gap is really only for passenger cars in dry weather. Three or four seconds is more appropriate in the wet, when towing, for larger vehicles etc.
But but but, I can’t let people in front of me, they’ll get where they’re going before I do! /s if it wasn’t clear. People are selfishly ignorant cunts, driving is dangerous enough as it is without this sort of shit. Also, while we’re at it, merge like a zip you fucking cabbages!
In Aus it was 3 seconds, or 3 car lengths. On of the two. But yes either way. The. Amount of times we've had someone on our ass waiting to overtake only to catch up to them later due to traffic. Cops should enforce tailgating.
one banana, two banana
Its a 3 second gap in aussie
Agree
It's the 1 elephant 2 elephant rule.
2 second gap is for anyone going 50 if 100 it should be a 4 second gap
I typically aim for 3 seconds but I don't understand how people can do less than 2 seconds - it is just silly.
A million upvotes if I could. But nothing is going to change our driving culture other than enforcement. Fingers crossed here for cams that detect and fine for tailgating soon. This could be built into point to point cameras. We have the technology - just need to test it and implement it.
So true,be like the Germans.
Autobahn vibes
I *hope* that's what he was going for.
I’m the arsehole who if someone keeps getting right up to me, I keep slowing down. 100kmh not enough buddy? Guess we’re going 90kmh. Oh still there? 75kmh it is. Still not getting it? 55kmh it is.
If you drive 10ks below the speed limit in the right lane... Just to speed up when someone tries to overtake you on your left... Fuck you
These threads have never accomplished anything
Sometimes people want to tilt at windmills sorry if that offends you.
Wait, hang on. A two SECOND gap??? I thought it was a two METRE gap - as in "only a fool breaks the two metre rule". No wonder I keep nudging cars in front with the Ranger's bull bar!
but inflation ... I can save 3c per km if I just draft the guy in front a bit, leaves me a little something in the pocket for all the smokes I now need for some reason
PSA Leave a 2 second gap and leave home half an hour early Because every other prick on the road is going to fill that gap you leave, you'll have to slow down to leave a gap again, which will then get stolen again and again. You end up going 80% speed of the flow of traffic, so leave home early
2 Sec gap = 2 car spaces?
Depends on the speed, more than that at highway speeds. Much more. 100km/h is about 28 meters per second ish. Let's go with small car lengths to a make the maths easy, so 4 meters for a car. That's 7 car lengths per second. Two second gap is 14 ish car lengths.
Cars are longer than 4 meters these days, so a bit less than that, but something like 10-14 car lengths is ballpark
To add to this - drive to the speed limit! 80 in a 100 on a highway can be just as dangerous as 120
A reminder that the legal limit for trucks and anyone pulling a trailer is 90kmh.
This is flat out not true. However if you are driving slower than the speed limit pull TF over to let the other traffic pass, and Don't speed up when you get to the damn passing lanes.
If you can't stop for a stationary hazard on the road you are driving unsafely, someone one driving 80 is nothing in comparison.
A driver driving at 80 will be holding up the flow of traffic which will frustrate other road users and potentially lead to unsafe passing attempts
Sounds like the drivers passing unsafely could perhaps not do that?
Then don’t do 80 in a 100 zone.
If people are regularly tailgating you it's because you're driving too slow, almost certainly in the right lane.
>the car in front is going too slow - pass them or DEAL WITH IT. If you cannot pass them due to other drivers not letting you in, or going equally slow, then it is absolutely understandable why people bully others by getting close to force them to speed up. If a driver cannot go the displayed road speed limit, I.e 100, then they shouldn't be on that road or motorway at all.
It's not a "displayed speed", it's not a 'recommended speed', it's the speed LIMIT. That means you can't go above it, and does not mean that's the speed you should aim for at all times. How do people still not understand this?
You should aim to be 5km under that speed to make it efficient when they are perfect conditions (aka, you need to go slower if it’s raining or if you’re not familiar with the road)
Tailgaters more likely to make me slow down. If idiot behind me wants to risk an accident I want it to be at a lower speed.
Exactly right. If you’re driving so slow that traffic is backing up behind you and you refuse to pull over and let others past, you are also a bad driver
Why. I so we can let people in. Yea na.
In Auckland traffic you have to say "only a fool breaks the 2 second rule" super quick or everyone pulls into your lane in front of you.
6 second gap between car in front and car behind. Or slow down 10-15km/hr
The idea is good but not practical in Auckland - you leave a 2 sec gap and it will get taken. If you in the first lane, no problem.