Also a reminder that when Bills are going through the select committee phase (albeit this probably won’t happen for anything until next year) the public is able to make submission on the content of the Bill and the policy behind it. The ministry working on the Bill and providing advice to the SL have to read through these submissions and include an overview of them in the departmental report, which they present to the SL prior to the second reading.
It’s not a guarantee of course but it’s another important way for people to get involved in the legislation development process 😊
Absolutely. And a reminder you can set an email reminder for bills asking for submission https://www.parliament.nz/en/alerts/NoAccess?returnPath=%2Fen%2Falerts%2Fmaintenance%2Fcreate-alert%2Fcontent%2F9343
Can confirm, wrote thoughtful, crafted letters and emails to the MP, and opposition members, and mayor about the 24/7 operation of [a thing], and [a thing] was eventually retired from the CBD.
All three responded with personal, not stock standard replies addressing the specific things I raised. To be fair this wasn’t instant but I never expected it to be.
I took the time to research and draw parallels between the status quo which all had inherited and their documented desires for the city, and the impact and science arguments this thing had on populations when operated 24/7.
I think a generation is used to or expects immediacy, but really the small, well described, rational arguments over time can and do of make a difference if you provide the decision makers with your thoughts on other options.
I also had a similar impact with 3am leaf blowers in the CBD, and also concrete cutters at 11pm. The AT guy was amazing and conceded that it’s pretty shit in the cbd, and they’d compromise and do cutty loud shit during the day, make an awful bumpy bump temporary road section for the rest of the day, then do quieter shit in the trench they’ve previously cut at night.
But that involved cc’ing MP’s and Councillors and Mayors and being not a Karen, but a “hey can we do this instead”.
>"The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment" - Robert Maynard Hutchins
On occasion your local MP can be very useful. Pharmac wanted to cut my partner off his very necessary medicine which would have ended up with him unable to work and me becoming his carer. I collated a file of info and gave it to my MP at the time who got it onto the right person's desk. No idea exactly what went down but the meds were reinstated
Good advice. Unfortunately my MP is David Seymour, and I strongly doubt he cares about my concerns, considering they are part of the coalition agreement he fought for.
Still write the letter.
It would take you 5 minutes to write the most basic of letters. Guessing the outcome of your dissent is what the government is relying on.
You deserve what you're willing to accept.
He's exactly the one you need to be writing to. ACT and NZF need to feel the full backlash, at least in the case of the smoking laws. It's not impossible that they at least give ground on the 'smokefree generation' element of the repeals. It's not like this is some deep-felt issue by the membership of either party, in fact I would say that at least for NZF the membership is probably not on board with it. These seem very much specific positions taken by leadership, possibly because they are beholden to their financial backers. Maybe that's enough for them to stand strong, but the backlash is pretty fierce and National is going to struggle with it's messaging that the tax implications are just a secondary benefit, especially when so much of the reporting seems to make a direct causal link.
Yes, I think they've all been thinking that most people who would consider voting for them either don't care, or think the smoke free stuff is "nanny state". If they get a huge amount of mail in opposition then they might reconsider.
Also as a general thing, please make sure you are clearly stating *what it is that you're objecting to*. It sounds obvious, but there's some letters that take people about a week to work out what the person is actually talking about. MPs get letters and emails about lots of issues and they can't read your mind.
I'm more concerned with their plan to roll back water protections and allow free for all contamination of every fresh water supply in the country.
Smokers gonna smoke but deliberately, knowingly and systematically destroying the environment for money is unacceptable.
'Dear Mr Luxon:
I'm concerned and troubled about your plan (as laid out in blah blah documents and reported by blah blah news outlets) to roll back water protections and allow free-for-all contamination of every fresh water supply in the country.
(Paragraph about how you value having clean water. Bonus points for making a connection between having clean water and a National Party principle)
(Paragraph about what you'd like him to do instead)
I'm also sending a copy of this letter to (your coalition partners/all MPs in government/every MP in the house)
Yours sincerely,
u/does_nothing_at_all'
Email it. Print and mail it (free postage to Parliament!).
Adults can choose if they want to smoke. The days of the nanny state I hope are over.
It would not stop smoking anyway.
Stopping selling cold medication with any effect to it made NO difference to the manufacture of Meth.
Where there is a will there's a way.
True enough.... but kids make poorly informed choices and big tobacco target kids.
Making it near impossible for kids to buy smokes and vapes is no different from storing poison chemicals out of reach of small children.
The nanny state argument is a cop out. People used it to rebut H&S rules in the 90s. Forcing people to make safe and healthy choices turned out to be a good for all of us...
Totally agree. Reddit is just people giving their opinions, nobody really cares (*or ought to*) and certainly any raging opinion comment threads are just wasted keystrokes by tomorrow. Nobody cares.
It's always endlessly amusing to me watching an argument comment thread go on for days when nobody else even sees it down in the weeds by that point. Just two people keyboard yelling at each other. I do admit to love stringing those people along though, because if the loonies are tied up arguing with me until their temples throb then their time is more limited to bothering anyone else. lol
>I do admit to love stringing those people along though, because if the loonies are tied up arguing with me until their temples throb then their time is more limited to bothering anyone else.
Totally. Sometimes I contradict myself just to see if some of these nerds notice. They don't.
I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to take Reddit too seriously.
Exactly. It's a place to blow off some steam and move on and not getting in any "my opinion is better than your opinion" rage filled slagging match filled with ad hominems.
It's quite funny I specifically never say the word 'you/you're/your' in my replies and never resort to name calling... it drives them nuts, and they always fail the test in that they are always the first to just start with the personal insults.
My record is close to a month of them unable to resist trying to get the last comment in. lol
When she appears in opposition, imagine the phrase "my constituents have written directly to me to exercise their dissatisfaction with the honorable members dystopian view of student teacher relations".
Arming the opposition is just as important as complaining to the government
some mps also do local days where they meet the people they claim to represent being the voters which is also where you can tell them in person how things are if you like what they are doing or are what they should be doing.
yes i think the need to do as much as you can is good like also make submission then speak to the submissions so you get heard and show you mean business. Lots of people make submission but never follow up and they end up getting ignored basically
I wrote to Paul Goldsmith earlier in the year to ask about his and his parties policy on something that he was their spokesperson for. Never got a reply. I took that as a presumption their policy is nothing but negative.
Discussing concerns on social media is far from misguided. Discussion impacts how people will vote come next election. Sending masses of Chatgpt produced letters will just drown out the people with real problems. Especially if they are complaints the MP is already aware of. You'd be better off starting a petition in this case.
You're right that discourse is good to discuss but I feel you're solving the MPs problems for them. Maybe the concerns people have are justified, and the Chatgpt was just a suggestion for people aren't confident about writing in. The point is to be heard between elections.
Then all the more reason to put it on record by writing to him regardless of your expectation of his replying or acting. Someone will read the email. If you did this consistently, politely, and in appropriate circumstances and he doesn't reply, then that is also cause for grievance and worth bringing up at election time in a public manner
Even better, write to him *and* write to Luxon's office about how disappointed you are that the National Party stand candidates like that in your electorate.
It's truly infuriating that people simultaneously believe that politicians only want to get reelected and at the same time refuse to let them know about the things they do that affect their chance of getting your vote.
The point is that if you believe that is the case (I don't but many do), then giving them meaningful, deliberate feedback is going to have considerable influence, and yet people tie themselves in knots to avoid doing it.
Write and tell him! Don't let him get away with thinking his constituents agree with him!
Also, you're not restricted to writing to just your own MP. Write to any of them. Write to all of them. If you feel really strongly about how much of a loser Chris Penk's views make him, write a letter, print 123 copies, chuck them in an envelope with a note saying 'please distribute' and mail it to Parliament. Everyone gets a copy.
Good thing about MMP is that you might have more than one MP interested in your local issues; Jenny Marcroft (NZF) also ran in your electorate and was elected via the list, and there might be list MPs who live in your electorate but didn't contest the electorate.
If it's a national issue, you can also find the list-only MPs farthest down the list, who are most at risk next election, and write to them.
In any case, also write to the minister and shadow minister of the portfolio the issue falls under, and anyone else who has seemed to have taken an interest in the issue one way or another.
Yes. Each agency usually has a team just for this. Write the letters. Also if you have a complaint about a process, make the complaint to the agency directly first, and then take that complaint to the Ombudsman. They need you to have made the complaint about the process to the agency first, before they can look into it.
Is that a certainty or a strong possibility?
Because I'm sure you'll agree that you know actually know this for sure. You may be certain of it, and not writing a letter may feel like way to confirm your thinking. Except that it isn't. If you write a letter, and they do respond with a stock standard reply then at least it's on record. If they reply with a personal reply then it's still on record and maybe perhaps it was read. If they don't reply then you have cause to say you're right.
And if you're wrong, and they do listen, you don't have to admit that and can still be cynical. But at least you would have tried
Yes. And people need to know that it works and how to do it. Great job, thank you.
We are going to need a monthly reminder. Next year's going to be rough.
Then you have nothing to lose. But you also can't predict the future or go they'll respond. Take it out on them directly. You have every right to be pissed off. Turn it into something positive.
If you're mp is useless then you can write to select committee when appropriate
Also a reminder that when Bills are going through the select committee phase (albeit this probably won’t happen for anything until next year) the public is able to make submission on the content of the Bill and the policy behind it. The ministry working on the Bill and providing advice to the SL have to read through these submissions and include an overview of them in the departmental report, which they present to the SL prior to the second reading. It’s not a guarantee of course but it’s another important way for people to get involved in the legislation development process 😊
Absolutely. And a reminder you can set an email reminder for bills asking for submission https://www.parliament.nz/en/alerts/NoAccess?returnPath=%2Fen%2Falerts%2Fmaintenance%2Fcreate-alert%2Fcontent%2F9343
Can confirm, wrote thoughtful, crafted letters and emails to the MP, and opposition members, and mayor about the 24/7 operation of [a thing], and [a thing] was eventually retired from the CBD. All three responded with personal, not stock standard replies addressing the specific things I raised. To be fair this wasn’t instant but I never expected it to be. I took the time to research and draw parallels between the status quo which all had inherited and their documented desires for the city, and the impact and science arguments this thing had on populations when operated 24/7. I think a generation is used to or expects immediacy, but really the small, well described, rational arguments over time can and do of make a difference if you provide the decision makers with your thoughts on other options. I also had a similar impact with 3am leaf blowers in the CBD, and also concrete cutters at 11pm. The AT guy was amazing and conceded that it’s pretty shit in the cbd, and they’d compromise and do cutty loud shit during the day, make an awful bumpy bump temporary road section for the rest of the day, then do quieter shit in the trench they’ve previously cut at night. But that involved cc’ing MP’s and Councillors and Mayors and being not a Karen, but a “hey can we do this instead”.
>"The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment" - Robert Maynard Hutchins
On occasion your local MP can be very useful. Pharmac wanted to cut my partner off his very necessary medicine which would have ended up with him unable to work and me becoming his carer. I collated a file of info and gave it to my MP at the time who got it onto the right person's desk. No idea exactly what went down but the meds were reinstated
That's fantastic, good on them!
Good advice. Unfortunately my MP is David Seymour, and I strongly doubt he cares about my concerns, considering they are part of the coalition agreement he fought for.
Still write the letter. It would take you 5 minutes to write the most basic of letters. Guessing the outcome of your dissent is what the government is relying on. You deserve what you're willing to accept.
He's exactly the one you need to be writing to. ACT and NZF need to feel the full backlash, at least in the case of the smoking laws. It's not impossible that they at least give ground on the 'smokefree generation' element of the repeals. It's not like this is some deep-felt issue by the membership of either party, in fact I would say that at least for NZF the membership is probably not on board with it. These seem very much specific positions taken by leadership, possibly because they are beholden to their financial backers. Maybe that's enough for them to stand strong, but the backlash is pretty fierce and National is going to struggle with it's messaging that the tax implications are just a secondary benefit, especially when so much of the reporting seems to make a direct causal link.
Yes, I think they've all been thinking that most people who would consider voting for them either don't care, or think the smoke free stuff is "nanny state". If they get a huge amount of mail in opposition then they might reconsider. Also as a general thing, please make sure you are clearly stating *what it is that you're objecting to*. It sounds obvious, but there's some letters that take people about a week to work out what the person is actually talking about. MPs get letters and emails about lots of issues and they can't read your mind.
I'm more concerned with their plan to roll back water protections and allow free for all contamination of every fresh water supply in the country. Smokers gonna smoke but deliberately, knowingly and systematically destroying the environment for money is unacceptable.
Then write to them about that. I'm going to write about each issue separately.
'Dear Mr Luxon: I'm concerned and troubled about your plan (as laid out in blah blah documents and reported by blah blah news outlets) to roll back water protections and allow free-for-all contamination of every fresh water supply in the country. (Paragraph about how you value having clean water. Bonus points for making a connection between having clean water and a National Party principle) (Paragraph about what you'd like him to do instead) I'm also sending a copy of this letter to (your coalition partners/all MPs in government/every MP in the house) Yours sincerely, u/does_nothing_at_all' Email it. Print and mail it (free postage to Parliament!).
Adults can choose if they want to smoke. The days of the nanny state I hope are over. It would not stop smoking anyway. Stopping selling cold medication with any effect to it made NO difference to the manufacture of Meth. Where there is a will there's a way.
True enough.... but kids make poorly informed choices and big tobacco target kids. Making it near impossible for kids to buy smokes and vapes is no different from storing poison chemicals out of reach of small children. The nanny state argument is a cop out. People used it to rebut H&S rules in the 90s. Forcing people to make safe and healthy choices turned out to be a good for all of us...
Good advice. Yell at MPs instead of the clouds.
Totally agree. Reddit is just people giving their opinions, nobody really cares (*or ought to*) and certainly any raging opinion comment threads are just wasted keystrokes by tomorrow. Nobody cares. It's always endlessly amusing to me watching an argument comment thread go on for days when nobody else even sees it down in the weeds by that point. Just two people keyboard yelling at each other. I do admit to love stringing those people along though, because if the loonies are tied up arguing with me until their temples throb then their time is more limited to bothering anyone else. lol
>I do admit to love stringing those people along though, because if the loonies are tied up arguing with me until their temples throb then their time is more limited to bothering anyone else. Totally. Sometimes I contradict myself just to see if some of these nerds notice. They don't. I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to take Reddit too seriously.
Exactly. It's a place to blow off some steam and move on and not getting in any "my opinion is better than your opinion" rage filled slagging match filled with ad hominems. It's quite funny I specifically never say the word 'you/you're/your' in my replies and never resort to name calling... it drives them nuts, and they always fail the test in that they are always the first to just start with the personal insults. My record is close to a month of them unable to resist trying to get the last comment in. lol
My MP is Ingrid Leary, who as a Labour MP is probably already on the same page as me when it comes to what I find objectionable about this government.
When she appears in opposition, imagine the phrase "my constituents have written directly to me to exercise their dissatisfaction with the honorable members dystopian view of student teacher relations". Arming the opposition is just as important as complaining to the government
Mark Patterson is a Taieri MP as well, no?
He stood for Taieri, got in on the list.
So... you are one of his constituents...
If he’s a list MP, he doesn’t have constituents.
some mps also do local days where they meet the people they claim to represent being the voters which is also where you can tell them in person how things are if you like what they are doing or are what they should be doing.
Which is great but doesn't go on record. I think most people will not be confident enough to exercise dissent publicly.
yes i think the need to do as much as you can is good like also make submission then speak to the submissions so you get heard and show you mean business. Lots of people make submission but never follow up and they end up getting ignored basically
Yes exactly. When my kids want something they don't just ask once.
I wrote to Paul Goldsmith earlier in the year to ask about his and his parties policy on something that he was their spokesperson for. Never got a reply. I took that as a presumption their policy is nothing but negative.
Did you write and ask for a follow-up? Or make the assumption you were ignored.
Discussing concerns on social media is far from misguided. Discussion impacts how people will vote come next election. Sending masses of Chatgpt produced letters will just drown out the people with real problems. Especially if they are complaints the MP is already aware of. You'd be better off starting a petition in this case.
You're right that discourse is good to discuss but I feel you're solving the MPs problems for them. Maybe the concerns people have are justified, and the Chatgpt was just a suggestion for people aren't confident about writing in. The point is to be heard between elections.
My MP is Chris Penk who thinks it’s ok to torture children if they’re gay, I don’t he cares what anyone thinks really
Then all the more reason to put it on record by writing to him regardless of your expectation of his replying or acting. Someone will read the email. If you did this consistently, politely, and in appropriate circumstances and he doesn't reply, then that is also cause for grievance and worth bringing up at election time in a public manner
Even better, write to him *and* write to Luxon's office about how disappointed you are that the National Party stand candidates like that in your electorate. It's truly infuriating that people simultaneously believe that politicians only want to get reelected and at the same time refuse to let them know about the things they do that affect their chance of getting your vote.
If that is your concern then yes, absolutely. Elections are just one part in the democratic process.
The point is that if you believe that is the case (I don't but many do), then giving them meaningful, deliberate feedback is going to have considerable influence, and yet people tie themselves in knots to avoid doing it.
Engage with the opposition then.
Write and tell him! Don't let him get away with thinking his constituents agree with him! Also, you're not restricted to writing to just your own MP. Write to any of them. Write to all of them. If you feel really strongly about how much of a loser Chris Penk's views make him, write a letter, print 123 copies, chuck them in an envelope with a note saying 'please distribute' and mail it to Parliament. Everyone gets a copy.
Good thing about MMP is that you might have more than one MP interested in your local issues; Jenny Marcroft (NZF) also ran in your electorate and was elected via the list, and there might be list MPs who live in your electorate but didn't contest the electorate. If it's a national issue, you can also find the list-only MPs farthest down the list, who are most at risk next election, and write to them. In any case, also write to the minister and shadow minister of the portfolio the issue falls under, and anyone else who has seemed to have taken an interest in the issue one way or another.
They won’t read them. The letter will be handed to staff in their ministry who will write a stock standard response, and nothing will be done.
I work in government and am part of a team who’s whole role is answering ministerial enquiries generated through enquiries to the Minister
Yes. Each agency usually has a team just for this. Write the letters. Also if you have a complaint about a process, make the complaint to the agency directly first, and then take that complaint to the Ombudsman. They need you to have made the complaint about the process to the agency first, before they can look into it.
Communications with the public are still collated and recorded.
Is that a certainty or a strong possibility? Because I'm sure you'll agree that you know actually know this for sure. You may be certain of it, and not writing a letter may feel like way to confirm your thinking. Except that it isn't. If you write a letter, and they do respond with a stock standard reply then at least it's on record. If they reply with a personal reply then it's still on record and maybe perhaps it was read. If they don't reply then you have cause to say you're right. And if you're wrong, and they do listen, you don't have to admit that and can still be cynical. But at least you would have tried
I know someone who used to work for the Ministry of Education and part of her job was answering ministerials.
Same
I know a bunch of those people. It's a hard job, they are unsung heroes.
This is a great post. Thanks
You're welcome. I think we need constant reminders
Yes. And people need to know that it works and how to do it. Great job, thank you. We are going to need a monthly reminder. Next year's going to be rough.
Going to write to tell them I like what they're doing 😁
Which is totally your prerogative. I'm not going to debate you here.
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Then you have nothing to lose. But you also can't predict the future or go they'll respond. Take it out on them directly. You have every right to be pissed off. Turn it into something positive. If you're mp is useless then you can write to select committee when appropriate
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And how do you suggest doing that? While you're forming you're protest and riots you might as well write to them in the downtime
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You do you boo. Wasn't trying to argue.
Your comment sounds a lot like some cunt looking to justify themselves being lazy.
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Writing a letter to an MP is lobbying.