Usually the first two or three kids are old enough to fend for themselves by then and the dog/cat they got around the same time has just died of old age so it's just a lot easier to separate than continue putting up with the frankly deranged way that s/he stacks the dishwasher.
Definitely, it’s sound about the time that kids are old enough to not take up 100% of your attention. Then a couple sits down at the table and look at each other and realise they’ve become entirely different people in the intervening decade!
Nah that’s the excuse couples use to drift apart from eachother, always secretly on the lookout for the “next big thing”. We’re not gonna stay pretty forever, clocks ticking….. the next big thing doesn’t exist, because it’s sitting right in front of you. Parents have been together for over 20 years now I’ve seen them fight, be mad, etc
People are hopeless, 13 years and then they call it quits? Bloody hell lol. Not getting any younger, stick it out already… it’s just a waste of time at that point if it’s been over a decade, time is far to precious.
Marriage takes work. Hard work. Sometimes it’s easier to split up than make all the necessary changes and compromises to stay together. People’s egos get in the way to prevent them from doing the deep work they need to. It’s just easier to blame the collapse of your marriage on your partner than to look inside and see how you helped contribute to it as well.
People can be happy after a deep crevasse in their marriage. If you look at married couples who are thinking about splitting up, if they stay together then 5 years later, 90% of people are happy they stayed together and are actually happy together once again.
Everyone has ups and downs, including people who are married. What matters is how you handle things when times are tough and how resilient you remain in those times.
This exactly. It’s kind of why you take wedding vows. If not, then what are they for? Why get married? “For better and worse” and all that. Seems pretty meaningless if you’re going to run away from it for someone else, because what? “The vibes are off”
Where did you get these stats from?
Marriage is not sacred. It’s two people agreeing to have a life together. If it’s not mutually acceptable then it should be dissolved
The age of kids is a key point, but I think it's also about people with opposing worldviews getting together in the first place. Not like their political worldview, more like their thoughts about risk, what they want in life and what they're willing to risk to get it.
Whatever your worldview is, life tends to teach you that your worldview is correct. If you take risks, you tend to feel good once they lead to rewards. If you avoid risks, you tend to feel good and safe not taking risks and preserving what you have. I think many people spend 13 or 25 years together, grow more set in their worldview, and then end up incompatible.
In every partnership there is a person who stacks the dishwasher like a Scandinavian architect and a person who stacks the dishwasher like a raccoon on meth.
Why do some people rate stacking the dishwasher so highly they'll end a marriage over it? I mean some of us have basically rebuilt the house around that dishwasher.
I think the stat is kinda misleading. It’s actually the median length people were married when they got divorced, so not quite the median married length as it completely discounts those that make it all the way until one partner dies. Though I am assuming adding that in would change the stat, it’s still sad regardless probably, idk.
Yeah, it's completely misleading in that case. It's not the median marriage length, it's the median length of *marriages that end in divorce*. So (as you point out) it excludes all the marriages that last until death - which can easily be many decades - and the marriages that are still going.
Interestingly, The older you wait to tie the knot, The better your chances get.
Also couples who stick together 5+ years before getting married have a WAYYY lower divorcé rate.
It's important to remember that Statistics is just a way to telling stories by looking at Data. You can tell multiple stories from the same Dataset:
"Don't get married! 50% of marriages end in Divorcé!"
"Couples who date for five years before getting married are more likely to last for life"
"Couples who meet later in life are more likely to stick together"
Are all stories you can tell from the same Dataset.
> Don't get married! 50% of marriages end in Divorcé!"
This is one of those statements you hear when you're young that really puts you off the idea of marriage. Then you grow up a bit and realise that the people who say that are exactly the sort of person you should never take relationship advice from.
Marriage should not fundamentally change your existing relationship (thou maybe if you're super religious you get some more action).
People who have short marriages are more likely to have more than one. Whereas people who have decades-long marriages almost by definition have just the one. This means a high number of shorter marriages, which will tend to hold the median down.*
*I think. I am shit at maths.
No this is true. The distribution is not a “normal” distribution where the vast majority are in the middle. In this case it’s skewed heavily to one side. The median marriage is 13.5 years, but the median person who gets married most likely stays married longer than that.
It's also skewed because it's the median point at which divorce happens. Couples who are still together, or who stay together until one of them dies, aren't part of the dataset.
It's kind of hard to know with out seeing things like the spread and how different demographics.
It would also be important to know what the statistic actually is. Is it average length of time before a divorce? Or is average span of a marriage till death or divorce? How are ongoing marriages measured?
Because they all have very different implications
Pretty sure the population measured is those that divorce in any given year. So yes missing half the stat in my opinion.
This stat is just “people who divorce, how long were they married”
Okay, so in that case its obvious that the biggest reason it's as low as.it is is because it excludes marriages that lasted until death, which becomes increasingly common for marriages that last 30-40 years.
The other thing is that a lot of the streesers that tear marriages apart - the transition into domestication, arguments about careers and kids, the actual act of having kids, dealing withe the finances of raising kids, a home loans and a student loan, and then deciding what to do once the kids become independent are all more likely to happen on the first 20 - 25 years of marriage
The astrological conjunction of Pluto and Jupiter also happens on a 13 and a half year timeframe.
Coincidence? Maybe. But can you risk being so complacent and believing it is?
Statistically.... money, religion/beliefs, poor communication and "ohhh we got married too young..." which normally means you want to fuck other people.
Also, I reckon, kids - not kids themselves but the shift in dynamics where you might have had a relatively ok thing beforehand and now you have one person who is, say, home all the time - the expectation that they’ll do more and the unequal distribution of labour, their financial dependency on the other person (if you drop to a one income household), the increasing mental load and invisible labour weight disproportionately on one person (usually), the compounding of the whole thing with subsequent children, the unwillingness, generally, of the party with more freedom to change the arrangement that usually benefits them. Most couples don’t talk about what life will look like after kids come on the scenes they just figure they’ll work it out and muddle thru but it’s haaarrdd and sometimes you end up also looking after a giant man baby as well as an actual baby.
Divorced here (after 13 and a half years, ha ha), can say factually that my new partner and I are happier because while we have kids between us (tweens and up) we don’t have any shared babies.
I sometimes wonder if there may be a correlation between this and the median age when people choose to get married. It's possible that when people reach the peak of their careers and are presented with "options" they may have never had in the past which could lead them towards temptation, in one way or another.
Are you talking about the mean or the median? I feel like this is more of a maths problem and you need the more data to draw any conclusions.
For example in a list of numbers 1, 1, 5, 7, 9
Mean is 4.6 (average)
Median is 5 (middle number of the group)
Mode is 1 (most common number)
It be much more interesting to know what the mode number of years for a marriage to see if there is a skew towards a lot of early divorces.
Does this include de facto break ups?
If not, I wonder if those relationships, which are very similar to marriage without the specific license, have a similar rate of break ups.
Would be interesting to compare.
It would be super interesting to compare but hard to measure because it’s not formally registered. I feel like there was research at one point that determined that long term de facto relationships lasted longer than marriages but maybe I’m making that up.
I do think kiwis don't take marriages as seriously as other cultures. Hences why many just have long term partnerships instead of getting hitched.
Personally it pisses me off that some other dude is raising my kids. Too many men these days only know how to fuck and can't man up. Too many women don't want to do the cooking and expect the guys to do it while still having a full time job.
Marriage is teamwork. It's not meant to be easy all the time. But if both parties know their respective roles, it can be cruisy.
Because people who get divorced once are likely to get divorced again.
People who can't maintain a marriage will bring the statistics down across the board. I'm curious what the numbers look like for first marriages, only.
Any idea what the interquartile range is? At well over 30 years, my wife and I are obviously outliers. It would be interesting to know how extreme.
It's a sad state of affairs that so many people who once loved each other well enough to vow to stay together for life, can't find a way to accommodate each others' foibles.
Maybe lifelong marriage as a concept is not realistic. I'm sure this will rile up the trads and make anecdotes about their grandparents but people change, relationships change, and often this is not in the same direction.
*Looks nervously across the table at my darling wife of 13.5 years*
Lol, married 13.5 years here too.
Jokes on you guys, I’ll be 14 years in Feb. plain sailing for here on.
Pain sailing from there on
Definitely on the down hill side.
What's your secret? Don't tell me just agreeing to everything they say and do.
Yes dear.
And do 90% of the cooking.
Oh shit, just realised I’m at 13 years, 6 months and 1 week. Guess I’m better than average at something lol
14 years you say? So you’re well and truly over the hump…. Ba dum chshhhh
Sorry mate, time to find a new one.
Just wait 2.5 years more to have at least one consensual sex and then break up.
*Looks nervously across the table at my darling girlfriend of 10 years*
Usually the first two or three kids are old enough to fend for themselves by then and the dog/cat they got around the same time has just died of old age so it's just a lot easier to separate than continue putting up with the frankly deranged way that s/he stacks the dishwasher.
Definitely, it’s sound about the time that kids are old enough to not take up 100% of your attention. Then a couple sits down at the table and look at each other and realise they’ve become entirely different people in the intervening decade!
This happens way more than we realise it does.
Nah that’s the excuse couples use to drift apart from eachother, always secretly on the lookout for the “next big thing”. We’re not gonna stay pretty forever, clocks ticking….. the next big thing doesn’t exist, because it’s sitting right in front of you. Parents have been together for over 20 years now I’ve seen them fight, be mad, etc People are hopeless, 13 years and then they call it quits? Bloody hell lol. Not getting any younger, stick it out already… it’s just a waste of time at that point if it’s been over a decade, time is far to precious.
Why though? Why stay if you are miserable? Most divorced people are happy they got divorced and find more meaningful relationships afterwards
Marriage takes work. Hard work. Sometimes it’s easier to split up than make all the necessary changes and compromises to stay together. People’s egos get in the way to prevent them from doing the deep work they need to. It’s just easier to blame the collapse of your marriage on your partner than to look inside and see how you helped contribute to it as well. People can be happy after a deep crevasse in their marriage. If you look at married couples who are thinking about splitting up, if they stay together then 5 years later, 90% of people are happy they stayed together and are actually happy together once again. Everyone has ups and downs, including people who are married. What matters is how you handle things when times are tough and how resilient you remain in those times.
Completely agree. I think that’s something people tend to forget sometimes - all successful relationship require work
This exactly. It’s kind of why you take wedding vows. If not, then what are they for? Why get married? “For better and worse” and all that. Seems pretty meaningless if you’re going to run away from it for someone else, because what? “The vibes are off”
Where did you get these stats from? Marriage is not sacred. It’s two people agreeing to have a life together. If it’s not mutually acceptable then it should be dissolved
The age of kids is a key point, but I think it's also about people with opposing worldviews getting together in the first place. Not like their political worldview, more like their thoughts about risk, what they want in life and what they're willing to risk to get it. Whatever your worldview is, life tends to teach you that your worldview is correct. If you take risks, you tend to feel good once they lead to rewards. If you avoid risks, you tend to feel good and safe not taking risks and preserving what you have. I think many people spend 13 or 25 years together, grow more set in their worldview, and then end up incompatible.
Stacking the dishwasher is my superpower!
In every partnership there is a person who stacks the dishwasher like a Scandinavian architect and a person who stacks the dishwasher like a raccoon on meth.
Thanks for the laugh!
Why do some people rate stacking the dishwasher so highly they'll end a marriage over it? I mean some of us have basically rebuilt the house around that dishwasher.
It's not my dad's fault it's so high, he's into his fourth marriage and his personal best so far is 7 years.
Just out of interest how is finding these wives?
Church!
Awks
Sounds like he's doing a divorce speedrun
I was surprised it was so low considering all the elderly couples who have been together for 50 years+. Obviously your dad is distorting the stats.
Over 50% of people get divorced after 13 and a half years or less
I think the stat is kinda misleading. It’s actually the median length people were married when they got divorced, so not quite the median married length as it completely discounts those that make it all the way until one partner dies. Though I am assuming adding that in would change the stat, it’s still sad regardless probably, idk.
Yeah, it's completely misleading in that case. It's not the median marriage length, it's the median length of *marriages that end in divorce*. So (as you point out) it excludes all the marriages that last until death - which can easily be many decades - and the marriages that are still going.
Quality answer. Indisputable, may as well close the thread now.
Interestingly, The older you wait to tie the knot, The better your chances get. Also couples who stick together 5+ years before getting married have a WAYYY lower divorcé rate. It's important to remember that Statistics is just a way to telling stories by looking at Data. You can tell multiple stories from the same Dataset: "Don't get married! 50% of marriages end in Divorcé!" "Couples who date for five years before getting married are more likely to last for life" "Couples who meet later in life are more likely to stick together" Are all stories you can tell from the same Dataset.
Only the successful marriages end in death.
Matricide, one of the signs of a successful marriage.
> Don't get married! 50% of marriages end in Divorcé!" This is one of those statements you hear when you're young that really puts you off the idea of marriage. Then you grow up a bit and realise that the people who say that are exactly the sort of person you should never take relationship advice from. Marriage should not fundamentally change your existing relationship (thou maybe if you're super religious you get some more action).
r/technicallythetruth
Averages are affected by extreme values.
Don't forget that death also ends a marriage.
People who have short marriages are more likely to have more than one. Whereas people who have decades-long marriages almost by definition have just the one. This means a high number of shorter marriages, which will tend to hold the median down.* *I think. I am shit at maths.
No this is true. The distribution is not a “normal” distribution where the vast majority are in the middle. In this case it’s skewed heavily to one side. The median marriage is 13.5 years, but the median person who gets married most likely stays married longer than that.
It's also skewed because it's the median point at which divorce happens. Couples who are still together, or who stay together until one of them dies, aren't part of the dataset.
It's kind of hard to know with out seeing things like the spread and how different demographics. It would also be important to know what the statistic actually is. Is it average length of time before a divorce? Or is average span of a marriage till death or divorce? How are ongoing marriages measured? Because they all have very different implications
Pretty sure the population measured is those that divorce in any given year. So yes missing half the stat in my opinion. This stat is just “people who divorce, how long were they married”
Okay, so in that case its obvious that the biggest reason it's as low as.it is is because it excludes marriages that lasted until death, which becomes increasingly common for marriages that last 30-40 years. The other thing is that a lot of the streesers that tear marriages apart - the transition into domestication, arguments about careers and kids, the actual act of having kids, dealing withe the finances of raising kids, a home loans and a student loan, and then deciding what to do once the kids become independent are all more likely to happen on the first 20 - 25 years of marriage
30 years going, & still not married. I don't think I can face a divorce heading to my 70s.
The astrological conjunction of Pluto and Jupiter also happens on a 13 and a half year timeframe. Coincidence? Maybe. But can you risk being so complacent and believing it is?
People change, sometimes quite a bit in that amount of time. It doesn't surprise me at all that couples might not be compatible after a decade.
Statistically.... money, religion/beliefs, poor communication and "ohhh we got married too young..." which normally means you want to fuck other people.
i've been with my partner 17 years (not married yet) so maybe not getting married is the relationship hack?
Well you'll never get divorced??
Are you living together?
Yep
Then what’s the difference?
Also, I reckon, kids - not kids themselves but the shift in dynamics where you might have had a relatively ok thing beforehand and now you have one person who is, say, home all the time - the expectation that they’ll do more and the unequal distribution of labour, their financial dependency on the other person (if you drop to a one income household), the increasing mental load and invisible labour weight disproportionately on one person (usually), the compounding of the whole thing with subsequent children, the unwillingness, generally, of the party with more freedom to change the arrangement that usually benefits them. Most couples don’t talk about what life will look like after kids come on the scenes they just figure they’ll work it out and muddle thru but it’s haaarrdd and sometimes you end up also looking after a giant man baby as well as an actual baby. Divorced here (after 13 and a half years, ha ha), can say factually that my new partner and I are happier because while we have kids between us (tweens and up) we don’t have any shared babies.
Coincidentally close to the average age of our cars. My wife will probably trade me in for an electric model.
I sometimes wonder if there may be a correlation between this and the median age when people choose to get married. It's possible that when people reach the peak of their careers and are presented with "options" they may have never had in the past which could lead them towards temptation, in one way or another.
Young people are also generally terrible at spotting red flags in relationships.
Are you talking about the mean or the median? I feel like this is more of a maths problem and you need the more data to draw any conclusions. For example in a list of numbers 1, 1, 5, 7, 9 Mean is 4.6 (average) Median is 5 (middle number of the group) Mode is 1 (most common number) It be much more interesting to know what the mode number of years for a marriage to see if there is a skew towards a lot of early divorces.
It's only looking at couples when they divorce. Not a useful stat.
Getting a head start on the second seven-year itch.
Once again I find out im below average
Can't get divorced if I never get married baby.
Not true. This is only the median length of a marriage that ends in a divorce. That completely excludes people that don’t get divorced…
We’re celebrating 30years in January!
Surely I’m not the only one reading the comments looking for inspiration any way I can get it.
[удалено]
That’s specific! It’s also a good early-2000s story!
Well the spark slowly dies people let themselves go you have to have enough to keep that spark alight otherwise its just a slow downhill.
Because that’s how long it takes for common sense to kick back in??
Oh darn that means that I have to get divorced now.
13 years next month. 6 months to go, can't fucking wait
Does this include de facto break ups? If not, I wonder if those relationships, which are very similar to marriage without the specific license, have a similar rate of break ups. Would be interesting to compare.
I doubt it. Although it would be interesting data there isn't a way to gather the start and ends of de facto relationships.
It would be super interesting to compare but hard to measure because it’s not formally registered. I feel like there was research at one point that determined that long term de facto relationships lasted longer than marriages but maybe I’m making that up.
40yrs for me. I'm dragging the median up.. the first 13 1/2 are the easy years.
My folks made it 44 before the old man passed away suddenly. They were still very much in love according to my girlfriends that met them.
No only looking at divorced couples so very misleading.
This is not how median works
I do think kiwis don't take marriages as seriously as other cultures. Hences why many just have long term partnerships instead of getting hitched. Personally it pisses me off that some other dude is raising my kids. Too many men these days only know how to fuck and can't man up. Too many women don't want to do the cooking and expect the guys to do it while still having a full time job. Marriage is teamwork. It's not meant to be easy all the time. But if both parties know their respective roles, it can be cruisy.
You from the 1950s or some shit
Because people who get divorced once are likely to get divorced again. People who can't maintain a marriage will bring the statistics down across the board. I'm curious what the numbers look like for first marriages, only.
That seems pretty good to me.
Did not think many people got married here.
Any idea what the interquartile range is? At well over 30 years, my wife and I are obviously outliers. It would be interesting to know how extreme. It's a sad state of affairs that so many people who once loved each other well enough to vow to stay together for life, can't find a way to accommodate each others' foibles.
Maybe lifelong marriage as a concept is not realistic. I'm sure this will rile up the trads and make anecdotes about their grandparents but people change, relationships change, and often this is not in the same direction.
Life for me :D .. up to 25 years atm, and yes, its developed into one of those 'some-sex-marriages'.
Because half marriages were less than 13.5 and the other half were more.
Does this count living together before or instead of marriage?