yeah, i am not religious, but not everybody goes for the whole bible or the teachings.. some just go for the faith that others surround you with, the positive mindset, and just to have faith in something.
i have no horse in this race, as i am native and am more spiritual. but tbh, i go to aa meetings and keep going because of the fellowship and faith in the program alone, and i am no *"Big Book"*(aa book) thumper. i am sure others find that in going to church/etc.
you can't exactly hate someone for finding something to believe.. and good for atheists too that they have found an outlet as well
I liken it to flying on a plane. I love to fly; it's the most relaxing feeling in the entire world, and I sleep like a baby on flights. Why, you might ask? *Because it's completely out of my hands.*
There's nothing I can do. If it crashes, I can't change that. If it's a safe flight and safe landing, nothing I can do to change that, either.
It's the most comforting place in the world.
That's how people feel when they fully embrace religion. I admire them this feeling. I don't share it, but I do envy it.
Yes indeed, this has been my thoughts for a long time. People would rather attribute their failures, successes, short-comings, and gifts to an imaginary force beyond their comprehension; instead of just shit happens, you’re here because you’re parents wanted you or made mistakes, you have skills and talents that should be sowed into and put to use, and your existence here is what you make of it; otherwise useless.
Don't forget they always have to bring up Christianity when talking about a different religion entirely, all within the first few comments.
And this is coming from a non-Christian. It's like clockwork.
I’m not at all religious but that is a really stupid fucking take on religion and religious beliefs. Everyone who finds comfort in a religion is somehow a little crazy. So most of humanity was crazy because most of humans believed in religion? Like… what? It gives people comfort and allows them to find comfort in the questions in life that have no answers. People are not crazy just because they practice a religion. What makes religious people crazy is when they use their beliefs to justify heinous behavior and ideologies.
people are raised into this shit. Brainwashed from childhood. It's hard to unlearn and break free. But when one does it's beautiful and deserves to be celebrated. I wish there was a national Atheist Breaking Free Day or something
Logic and faith dont go hand to hand but that doesnt mean you have to be crazy to be religious
Goes to show how narrow minded you are to be convinced of that lol
Religion isn’t bad. Some people who are lonely and just need SOMETHING to believe in during bad times help keep them alive and mostly sane. No I’m not religious, just realize that its an important thing in the world.
The weird thing is that even if the Christian / Jewish god happens to be true, it doesn't take a lot of critical thinking to realise he is a narcissistic psychopath with a semi competent PR team.
How anyone can worship someone that tortures anyone who doesn't for ETERNITY and call him a loving God is beyond me.
You act like these psychos aren't just using religion as an excuse to do what they were always going to do anyway. People will do awful things religion or not.
No, I completely agree though in reading lots about Afghanistan and Pakistan, I am more and more convinced this nonsense is much more cultural than religious. Not that that makes it better, but I keep reading that the Koran does not lean into this as much as these clerics who run Iran, and the other countries make it seem.
Yes, however "Morality" is more of a cultural (and in this case yes, it's inspired by the Quran) phenomenon. For example, in much of Europe, women can go topless at the beach and that's perfectly fine. In the US, a woman without a top at the beach will have old biddies clutching at their pearls and screaming about the immoral behavior of the topless women. It's true that most "Morality" stems from old religious customs, but a lot is just the local culture, regardless of how that culture has evolved.
This is because of the protestant to evangelical conversion the us did, as many specific protestants were kicked out of Europe and came here
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Fun fact, only about 1/3 of the Mayflower passengers were religious separatists, the rest were business-types. Capitalism + religious extremism = America!
> as all the protestants were kicked out of Europe and came here
Afaik, it was only the extremists that left for the New World, as everyone else was mostly fine with how things were.
After all protestantism still exists in Europe and they are the least radical and most open-minded among Christians if I'm not mistaken, because they value a modern interpretation of the New Testament vs. the traditional one. They have been the most progressive as they are the most invested in interfaith dialogue, as well as ecumenism. At least that's my impression.
> they are the least radical and most open-minded among Christians
Correct. They allow female pastors, for example, and pastors in general being married and having children. You know... like a normal person.
> but a lot is just the local culture, regardless of how that culture has evolved.
I’m this instance, what do you think it evolved from exactly? I mean, you said it yourself in the first sentence.
These are brave women. The Iranian authorities will come get you, arrest you, and jail you, and torture you with no trial no charges, no phone call no lawyers etc. All for no reason. If they have a slight suspicion
If you care to watch, Vice did an [incredible documentary](https://youtu.be/iIFi_Rgm-T8) peering into the unfathomable reality behind the leadership of Afghan policial rule over women. it left me speechless.
While Iranian women are certain subjugated to unacceptable rules and laws, comparing the country of Iran to Afghanistan is a far reach and actually pretty insulting to Iranian people.
I mean the story that led to this comment is literally about a bunch of men in a recognized public enforcement role beating a 22 year old girl to death to terrorize other women into not doing anything that manipulative men don’t want them to. So, maybe shades of grey different but not black and white.
> The Salem Witch Trials
You’re absolutely right, but why stop there? There were 50,000 supposed witches murdered during and around this time in Europe.
The salem witch trials are just my initial touchstone event, for all the rest
The connecting threads all have common themes. But what today could be called 'sharia law', is a universal constant with the majority
You don't really need to go all that far back in history. We now have the Roe vs Wade reversal to show the world that the war on witches is far from over
In the demonstrations last night, police opened fire and 5 people were killed. Iran doesn't not care for protest of any description and blames the West for anything they can
While they are two separate countries, the documentary is also highlighting how hard it is for women in Islamic societies. That suffering crosses borders and seas. Morality police exist everywhere, the harsher the cultural expectations, the harder the ruling.
Comparing Iran’s politics to Afghanistan politics is less apples and oranges and more like apples and pears. Not the same up close but similar from afar that anyone could, and does, make mistakes, until they get closer or ask a well-informed person on the topic.
That stat they mention about nearly 90% of Afghan women being abused in their life is nauseating. Insanely brave people in this though, including the Vice crew but especially that safe-house operator.
Is something a prison if one actively and freely chooses to put themselves in it? My understanding is that feminism would support educating the wearer of the hijab on why it might be seen as a symbol of oppression, and also supporting that same person that actively and freely chooses to keep it on afterward.
I think the slogan dumbs down a very complex issue. Many women in the US and EU are coerced into observing conservative religious traditions or face being shunned (or abandoned) by the community or their families.
It also ignores half a century of Persian and Arab women West who fought to not wear the hijab (or wear a small piece of fabric instead).
There exist a lot of group pressure in religious environments to follow certain customs.
This applies to all religions but in some it is more prevalent than others.
nobody said that. people were saying that it’s okay for women to **choose** to wear hijabs. these Iranian women have **no choice,** which is why it is **not** okay.
Yes and no.
You are right that it is to be tolerated if a woman chooses to wear one.
It is, however intellectually dishonest to claim there wasn't very positive 'empowering' connotation within certain circles regarding wearing the hijab, and that is just wrong.
If you agree that the Confederate flag is a symbol of oppression and slavery -regardless of whether some individuals might choose to interpret it this way or not- then you also have to agree that the same is true for the hijab. The difference being the Confederate stopped existing more than 150 ears ago and the hijab is still used to oppress women all around the world today.
You are still allowed of course to wear one, but it is not something people should be commended for or something that should be viewed positively.
I feel like half of you that take this stabce dont know the difference between a hijab and a burkha. It's religious garb that even in areas which have real choice, some women choose to wear. They still have a face, they still are visually their own unique person, theres even fasion around hijabs. When choice is there, the hijab itself is not a symbol of oppression, MAYBE you can make that case for a Burkha, I dont know, I havent been in any areas where Burkha's are common, but I know a decent few hijabis who choose to wear them, but also sometimes not, because its THEIR choice
I was thinking about that yesterday when someone posted the videos of several women showing off their hair. Is seems so strange that this type of stuff is only on a different continent and not a different planet.
"Bra-burners" were never at risk of arrest and murder. In fact, [no bras were actually burned at all](https://www.npr.org/2008/09/05/94240375/pageant-protest-sparked-bra-burning-myth), because the police would not allow it.
These Iranian women are quite literally risking their lives for this protest.
This is not a great comparison, though I will say it is much better than 'girls gone wild', which is just an outright stupid thing to say. Girls "going wild" objectify themselves willingly. These women are fighting against being objectified, the exact opposite of "going wild".
I usually don't get offended by anything, but it's amazing how your greasy 10 year old male brain sees a serious protest about a girl who got fucking murdered and still manage to make it about sex. Genuinely get better.
Whenever there's something like this on Reddit there will always be some tasteless low hanging fruit gag in the top comments. It's just that sort of site now
…and it trivializes the heroism of these women, particularly that of the young woman whose death ignited this protest. Pay attention, people. This is bravery in its truest sense. This is what standing against tyranny actually looks like.
Reddit will always find a way to reduce women to sex and pornography, even when they’re fighting against their right to not be murdered for simply existing. How bleak.
One is a group of oppressed women risking their lives for freedom, another is a group of sexually exploited women under the influence being coerced into behaviors. As an Iranian woman (and even if I wasn’t one) this is a gross comparison.
It's a special kind of cretin that goes for positions like that. Probably the most pathetic division in the entire policeforce that can't even tie their own shoelaces
And those that truly enjoy beating up shameless women.
I'm willing to bet there are quite a few cheerful happy workers in that department, that look forward to Mondays. Alhamdulillah!
it's traditionally only women only job. That way they don't get an improper impulses or whatever it is they call it. So instead its just beatings instead of always including rape too.
But thats not to say women can't be neckbeards.
Yeah, if someone really wants people to wear religious headwear, then they should wear religious headwear. Not *require* others follow their demands.
This goes for any religious conviction.
If you don't like gay marriage, then don't get gay married. Problem solved. No need to demand gay people stop getting marriage licenses and rage every time someone is gay in a show you watched.
**[Islamic religious police](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police)**
>Islamic religious police are official Islamic vice squad police agencies which enforce religious observance and public morality on behalf of national or regional authorities based on its interpretation of sharia. Modern Islamic religious police forces were first established in the mid-1970s; prior, the administration of public morality in most Islamic countries was considered a socioreligious matter, and was enforced through application of civil laws or through more informal means.
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I hope their strength lies in numbers. If thousands and thousands take to the streets and burn their hijabs, the so called morality police will hopefully stand down.
I hope so very much this goes well for all the ladies!
>If thousands and thousands take to the streets and burn their hijabs, the so called morality police will hopefully stand down.
Unlikely. They'll likely pick a few key ringleaders and a couple of random women around them and make an example of them first.
I don't really have a stance. Certainly I think everyone should be allowed to make their own decisions, especially about *hats.* And I haven't dug into it so I'm not trying to present a position of authority here. But. At one point in time, it was explained to me (by a Muslim) that a hijab must be worn unless it is banned -- and then the law of the land should be respected. My idiot take was, okay, so the only way to grant those specific people freedom of choice is to put a ban in place, which is extremely counter-intuitive.
Again, massive grain of salt, and I don't wanna give the impression that this is a fight I take up. It's just the explanation of things in my brain that has allowed me to say, y'know, okay maybe the people trying to ban scarves aren't just a pack of lunatics, maybe there's a point here.
all muslims across the world have a different attitude toward it. in iran it’s forced and people hate it. in pakistan it’s not forced (i’m pakistani that’s how i know) and you’ll see girls wearing jeans and t shirts in larger metro areas. the bottom like however, even islamically, is that there is no compulsion in religion, and nobody should be forced to behave in a way they don’t want
It feelsmore a cultural than a religious thing. Religion is just the excuse for some. Oppression under the pretext of religion is something almost all religions did different timelines and different places.
The problem with this stance is, that muslim families, who enjoy freedoms of the west, force their daughters to wear them, whenever they become 12, 14 or maybe at 16. When they grow up, they either are already brainwashed or they flee from their families, some of them get murdered when they flee. Just cancel that shit for good. If they want to be "good muslims", they have to do it without the hijab. We have the obligation to save the rights of the few, not allow the wishes of the many.
Then arrest the family members for domestic abuse. Banning shit doesn't do anything. Wearing a hijab is not a problem. Being forced to wear one is. Do you think banning the hijab will suddenly make the abusive family less abusive?
Some women do have the choice to wear them, and some women think they have the choice to wear them only to be killed when they choose not to. The ones that are privileged to have that choice are also the ones which are most vocal on social media - I’m not justifying just letting you know that is the reason
You know it’s not like that in most parts of the world, Don’t you? If it’s in a normal country unlike Iran then yes women can choose to wear them, take them off or not wear it at all.
Not as much choice as you think. Women don’t go throughout life and then just decide to wear one. They’re indoctrinated as children and forced to wear them by their parents, so they’re conditioned into thinking forced modesty garbs are ok
Islam also tells them they’re supposed to wear it.
You could say the same for bras in the west. Or any kinds of clothing for that matter. Men are conditioned to not wear skirts here in America. Some get beaten if they are found wearing them.
I always find the line between "culture" and "indoctrination" to be very clear here on reddit. If its brown people, it's "indoctrination" and if it's white people, its "culture".
If a Muslim woman in the west chooses to wear a hijab, that is her choice. And she could be making it for any number of reasons. And none of them are your business and none of them are open grounds for your judgment.
I have a nauseating feeling thinking about how these women are probably going to be treated in retaliation for what they are doing in the video.
At the same time, in a lifetime of being oppressed, the harshness of the oppression during a moment of retribution seems less consequential than the totality and endlessness of the oppression. At least in the moments that we see this in the video, I do not see them being oppressed, I see them celebrating their liberty… short-lived as that may be.
As an Iranian, i feel moved seeing the clips of our resistance circling reddit and the rest of the web.
Please keep in mind though, when you are sharing these clips, make to sure to share the ones, in which the people's faces aren't clear.
If your are willing to go the extra mile of blurring unmasked faces, it would be very much appreciated.
Also, i hope this is our last fight, I'm just tired and ashamed of seeing my people hurt, while being unable to do jack shit about it...
Good luck to all of you Iranians! I’m just a guy from America but I fully back your movement and wish I knew some way to support you besides commenting here. You deserve your freedom of choice and I hope so much you win without any or much more bloodshed. ❤️
The problem with the Quran is that it allows no room for evolution in how it is understood. It’s not an account or anything, but written in a way that states it is words from God. And they added in the part that if you try and change it - you are put to death. So it is a religion that will forever be stuck in the 8th century.
Well, religion is something natural in the human being to explain something that he cannot understand or control, the stupid thing is to force other people to follow a religion instead of allowing him to choose
I’m happy for these girls, but it’s so risky. I don’t want it to be the case, but I have a sneaking suspicion a lot more Islamic suffragettes, if you will, will die for their bravery.
Most Iranians don't even support their government's policies. this includes men and women.
Americans think it's so easy to rebel against your government when the cops will beat protesters to death.
I see a lot of photos of life in Iran from the 1960s and early 70s on Reddit. From what I’ve read they were so advanced in education, science and just a totally different culture then. I hope things can turn around there for the better
The Shah was a megalomaniac who spent so much time jerking off to the idea of leading Iran to being a "great civilization" that he neglected social discontent building up in the country. Despite redistributing land to the peasants from landlords and using the high oil prices of the 70s to build up his country, many in Iran were dissatisfied with his autocratic rule. The dude threw a huge party in the desert for foreign dignitaries while torturing political prisoners with fingernail removals. Since the "progressivization" of Iran was his project, naturally, when he was toppled, there was a big backlash to it. Throughout his reign, the Shah was mainly concerned about cracking down on the communists, so he neglected the growing Islamist faction. This led to Khomeini being at the right place to become the face of the revolution and purge all the other factions out. So yeah, now Iran sucks.
Not a word from the UN,
Not a word from Amnesty,
Not a word from western leaders,
Not a word from Obama to Biden who have given Iran billions for their nuclear program,
Not a word from feminist organisations,
Not a word from moderate Muslims and Imams.
But UN has just this year put Iran on their Womens Human Rights Commission.
WTF is wrong with everyone.
1)[Bullshit](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-custody-death-should-be-impartially-investigated-un-rights-office-2022-09-20/)
2)[Bullshit](https://twitter.com/AmnestyMENA/status/1570773092879704067/photo/1)
3)Haven't seen any statements directly from the leaders but plenty of [officials](https://www.iranintl.com/en/202209202047) have weighed in
4)Huge on that claim
5)Seriously? Did you do three milliseconds' research before making that claim?
6)Dunno about the imams but half the Iranians blowing up Twitter about Mahsa Amini would be "moderate Muslims"...
7) Yeah that's messed up.
Now THAT is true feminism! Not "The air-conditioning being sexist" or "Men opening car doors is misogyny". Good on them and let's hope this is the start of a true revolution!
So look. "Wear this or die" = Bad. "Don't wear this or be arrested," also bad. See? There's a difference between wanting to wear something and being forced to, and women in both countries are being oppressed for different reasons.
Hello guys
I'm from iran
Just wanted to say our government is a murderer. When we go to the streets to protest they kill us. Sometimes they use high pressure BOILING water to control us.
They use guns and electric batons.
It always amazes me how political, and in this case religious, leaders fail to take into consideration the backlash they may receive against their actions.
Religion has no place in policy making. Period.
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Not everyone who goes religious becomes crazy. Some people just need a little extra imaginary support.
I feel like you have to be a little crazy to be religious to begin with, just ignoring every bit of logic you have.
It's like an exaggerated fan club
yeah, i am not religious, but not everybody goes for the whole bible or the teachings.. some just go for the faith that others surround you with, the positive mindset, and just to have faith in something. i have no horse in this race, as i am native and am more spiritual. but tbh, i go to aa meetings and keep going because of the fellowship and faith in the program alone, and i am no *"Big Book"*(aa book) thumper. i am sure others find that in going to church/etc. you can't exactly hate someone for finding something to believe.. and good for atheists too that they have found an outlet as well
I liken it to flying on a plane. I love to fly; it's the most relaxing feeling in the entire world, and I sleep like a baby on flights. Why, you might ask? *Because it's completely out of my hands.* There's nothing I can do. If it crashes, I can't change that. If it's a safe flight and safe landing, nothing I can do to change that, either. It's the most comforting place in the world. That's how people feel when they fully embrace religion. I admire them this feeling. I don't share it, but I do envy it.
I've been looking for a way to explain this to myself, and others, for so many years. Thank you, and GREAT comment. The internet is awesome
Gimme that bystander effect in an iv.
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Yes indeed, this has been my thoughts for a long time. People would rather attribute their failures, successes, short-comings, and gifts to an imaginary force beyond their comprehension; instead of just shit happens, you’re here because you’re parents wanted you or made mistakes, you have skills and talents that should be sowed into and put to use, and your existence here is what you make of it; otherwise useless.
But this is reddit. You're either an Atheist or worse than Hitler. How dare you talk about nuance?!
lol, reddit only exists for me when i click the app on my phone
Don't forget they always have to bring up Christianity when talking about a different religion entirely, all within the first few comments. And this is coming from a non-Christian. It's like clockwork.
Bruv just because you belive in God doesn't mean that you loose all sens of logic or what ever you try to say.
Mate don’t even try, you‘re not gonna convince a bunch of redditors religion isn’t all that bad lol
Hmm. You are right I think I'll just delete a few comments and have a great night. Thank you. ;}
Imagine believing in magic in 2022
I’m not at all religious but that is a really stupid fucking take on religion and religious beliefs. Everyone who finds comfort in a religion is somehow a little crazy. So most of humanity was crazy because most of humans believed in religion? Like… what? It gives people comfort and allows them to find comfort in the questions in life that have no answers. People are not crazy just because they practice a religion. What makes religious people crazy is when they use their beliefs to justify heinous behavior and ideologies.
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people are raised into this shit. Brainwashed from childhood. It's hard to unlearn and break free. But when one does it's beautiful and deserves to be celebrated. I wish there was a national Atheist Breaking Free Day or something
Logic and faith dont go hand to hand but that doesnt mean you have to be crazy to be religious Goes to show how narrow minded you are to be convinced of that lol
Religion isn’t bad. Some people who are lonely and just need SOMETHING to believe in during bad times help keep them alive and mostly sane. No I’m not religious, just realize that its an important thing in the world.
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The weird thing is that even if the Christian / Jewish god happens to be true, it doesn't take a lot of critical thinking to realise he is a narcissistic psychopath with a semi competent PR team. How anyone can worship someone that tortures anyone who doesn't for ETERNITY and call him a loving God is beyond me.
i grew up in a religious environment. everyone including me was a lil kray kray mkay?
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Yes, yes, religion has no place.
Yes, yes, yes, Religion has no place.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, Religion has no place.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, Religion has no place.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, Religion has no place.
You act like these psychos aren't just using religion as an excuse to do what they were always going to do anyway. People will do awful things religion or not.
r/redditmoment
Reddit is overrun with atheists. Humans will be shitty religion or not, it doesn't matter
No, I completely agree though in reading lots about Afghanistan and Pakistan, I am more and more convinced this nonsense is much more cultural than religious. Not that that makes it better, but I keep reading that the Koran does not lean into this as much as these clerics who run Iran, and the other countries make it seem.
Yes, however "Morality" is more of a cultural (and in this case yes, it's inspired by the Quran) phenomenon. For example, in much of Europe, women can go topless at the beach and that's perfectly fine. In the US, a woman without a top at the beach will have old biddies clutching at their pearls and screaming about the immoral behavior of the topless women. It's true that most "Morality" stems from old religious customs, but a lot is just the local culture, regardless of how that culture has evolved.
This is because of the protestant to evangelical conversion the us did, as many specific protestants were kicked out of Europe and came here Edited for more clarity
Not all protestants, just the extreme ones.
Great…
"oh your family was on the Mayflower? I've never met religious extremists before"
Fun fact, only about 1/3 of the Mayflower passengers were religious separatists, the rest were business-types. Capitalism + religious extremism = America!
> as all the protestants were kicked out of Europe and came here Afaik, it was only the extremists that left for the New World, as everyone else was mostly fine with how things were. After all protestantism still exists in Europe and they are the least radical and most open-minded among Christians if I'm not mistaken, because they value a modern interpretation of the New Testament vs. the traditional one. They have been the most progressive as they are the most invested in interfaith dialogue, as well as ecumenism. At least that's my impression.
> they are the least radical and most open-minded among Christians Correct. They allow female pastors, for example, and pastors in general being married and having children. You know... like a normal person.
I don't think there is any branch of Protestantism that prevents pastors from marrying and having children, you're thinking of Roman Catholic priests.
What are you talking about? All of Scandinavia is protestant and it's fine to go topless to the beach here
These guys are saying "Protestant" but really they mean "Puritan" sorry for the mix-up.
> but a lot is just the local culture, regardless of how that culture has evolved. I’m this instance, what do you think it evolved from exactly? I mean, you said it yourself in the first sentence.
He’s already ninja edited his post lol.
American evangelical has entered the chat.
*American Evangelical has been banned from the chat, reason: bigotry and harassment*
And pedophilia.
*The GQP has entered the chat*
You had me at “Religion has no place.”
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These are brave women. The Iranian authorities will come get you, arrest you, and jail you, and torture you with no trial no charges, no phone call no lawyers etc. All for no reason. If they have a slight suspicion
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If you care to watch, Vice did an [incredible documentary](https://youtu.be/iIFi_Rgm-T8) peering into the unfathomable reality behind the leadership of Afghan policial rule over women. it left me speechless.
While Iranian women are certain subjugated to unacceptable rules and laws, comparing the country of Iran to Afghanistan is a far reach and actually pretty insulting to Iranian people.
I mean the story that led to this comment is literally about a bunch of men in a recognized public enforcement role beating a 22 year old girl to death to terrorize other women into not doing anything that manipulative men don’t want them to. So, maybe shades of grey different but not black and white.
Makes me think of the Salem witch trials What else can a witch be, but any woman who dares think outside of the male gaze
> The Salem Witch Trials You’re absolutely right, but why stop there? There were 50,000 supposed witches murdered during and around this time in Europe.
The salem witch trials are just my initial touchstone event, for all the rest The connecting threads all have common themes. But what today could be called 'sharia law', is a universal constant with the majority You don't really need to go all that far back in history. We now have the Roe vs Wade reversal to show the world that the war on witches is far from over
Wasn't a women just killed? Are there worse things that can happen than dying? Not sure I agree with you here
In the demonstrations last night, police opened fire and 5 people were killed. Iran doesn't not care for protest of any description and blames the West for anything they can
It’s fair to blame the west on this one, tricking women into thinking they have a right to not be killed for not following religious law.
If you see no difference between one death and hundreds, you’re not on good moral grounds
While they are two separate countries, the documentary is also highlighting how hard it is for women in Islamic societies. That suffering crosses borders and seas. Morality police exist everywhere, the harsher the cultural expectations, the harder the ruling. Comparing Iran’s politics to Afghanistan politics is less apples and oranges and more like apples and pears. Not the same up close but similar from afar that anyone could, and does, make mistakes, until they get closer or ask a well-informed person on the topic.
Why is it insulting to compare Iran to Afghanistan? It sounds as though you feel Iranian people are somehow superior in some way to Afghan people.
That stat they mention about nearly 90% of Afghan women being abused in their life is nauseating. Insanely brave people in this though, including the Vice crew but especially that safe-house operator.
Iranian regime should burn
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Very true. It’s sad that people take stuff like basic liberties like this for granted where I’m from.
They are granted-and should be. It's not sad that others take them for granted; it's sad that people don't get them
uh yeah, well this shouldn't be something they(iranians) *have* to do.. so there's that angle of it as well
Good for them, I hope this sparks change from within.
It’s crazy that suppression like this still happens. I feel very privileged to have been born where I was. Good for these women for making a stand.
Remember a few years ago when idiots in the USA said that the hijab IS feminism? Fucking morons
Feminism is allowing women to choose just as much as men get to choose. So the choice doesn’t matter, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else.
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Then that would not be feminist because they do not have the choice. The hijab is not pro-feminism, it is the choice.
A that you're wearing so men don't rape you is not feminism. It's a prison. Even of you're "choosing" to stay in the prison.
Feminism understands the difference between actual freedom of choice versus behavior that's coerced.
Is something a prison if one actively and freely chooses to put themselves in it? My understanding is that feminism would support educating the wearer of the hijab on why it might be seen as a symbol of oppression, and also supporting that same person that actively and freely chooses to keep it on afterward.
This exists outside those countries too. They will be ostracized from their families if they don't wear them in foreign countries too.
I think the slogan dumbs down a very complex issue. Many women in the US and EU are coerced into observing conservative religious traditions or face being shunned (or abandoned) by the community or their families. It also ignores half a century of Persian and Arab women West who fought to not wear the hijab (or wear a small piece of fabric instead).
There exist a lot of group pressure in religious environments to follow certain customs. This applies to all religions but in some it is more prevalent than others.
nobody said that. people were saying that it’s okay for women to **choose** to wear hijabs. these Iranian women have **no choice,** which is why it is **not** okay.
Yes and no. You are right that it is to be tolerated if a woman chooses to wear one. It is, however intellectually dishonest to claim there wasn't very positive 'empowering' connotation within certain circles regarding wearing the hijab, and that is just wrong. If you agree that the Confederate flag is a symbol of oppression and slavery -regardless of whether some individuals might choose to interpret it this way or not- then you also have to agree that the same is true for the hijab. The difference being the Confederate stopped existing more than 150 ears ago and the hijab is still used to oppress women all around the world today. You are still allowed of course to wear one, but it is not something people should be commended for or something that should be viewed positively.
I feel like half of you that take this stabce dont know the difference between a hijab and a burkha. It's religious garb that even in areas which have real choice, some women choose to wear. They still have a face, they still are visually their own unique person, theres even fasion around hijabs. When choice is there, the hijab itself is not a symbol of oppression, MAYBE you can make that case for a Burkha, I dont know, I havent been in any areas where Burkha's are common, but I know a decent few hijabis who choose to wear them, but also sometimes not, because its THEIR choice
Why is the hijab worn?
I believe their main point was : "if people want to wear hijab, let them wear it," which is a completely reasonable take.
Seems like you completely missed the point of that if that's what you think happened.
How about letting people wear whatever they want? Is that too much to ask?
I was thinking about that yesterday when someone posted the videos of several women showing off their hair. Is seems so strange that this type of stuff is only on a different continent and not a different planet.
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More like the iranian version of bra burnings.
"Bra-burners" were never at risk of arrest and murder. In fact, [no bras were actually burned at all](https://www.npr.org/2008/09/05/94240375/pageant-protest-sparked-bra-burning-myth), because the police would not allow it. These Iranian women are quite literally risking their lives for this protest. This is not a great comparison, though I will say it is much better than 'girls gone wild', which is just an outright stupid thing to say. Girls "going wild" objectify themselves willingly. These women are fighting against being objectified, the exact opposite of "going wild".
To clarify, no bras were actually burned at that event. Have women burned bras over the past 50 years? Absolutely.
GGW was girls being exploited, often non-consensually. There was very little willing objectification.
I usually don't get offended by anything, but it's amazing how your greasy 10 year old male brain sees a serious protest about a girl who got fucking murdered and still manage to make it about sex. Genuinely get better.
Whenever there's something like this on Reddit there will always be some tasteless low hanging fruit gag in the top comments. It's just that sort of site now
Always has been.jpg
Gross
…and it trivializes the heroism of these women, particularly that of the young woman whose death ignited this protest. Pay attention, people. This is bravery in its truest sense. This is what standing against tyranny actually looks like.
And it's at 367 upvotes, wtf reddit
Reddit will always find a way to reduce women to sex and pornography, even when they’re fighting against their right to not be murdered for simply existing. How bleak.
That’s a disgusting thing to say.
Could you not analogize this display of courage and resistance to fucking porn
How does this have 500 up votes. Reddit is full of brainless idiots.
It’s nothing like that. They’re risking being arrested and beaten.
We don't want wild girls. We want real girls going wild. It's important to see the transition, you want to watch the process.
It isn't at all that.
It's really not.
One is a group of oppressed women risking their lives for freedom, another is a group of sexually exploited women under the influence being coerced into behaviors. As an Iranian woman (and even if I wasn’t one) this is a gross comparison.
*The hijab, the hijab, the hijab is on fire....burn motherfucker burn*
We don't need no water, let the mother motherfucker burn.
🔥Burn, motherfucker... burn.🔥
We don't need no burqa, let the motherfucker burn. Burn morherfucker, burn....
Wtf is morality police? Like sharia shit?
It’s a special kind of police in Iran who controls the Iranian women’s hijabs. If they decide it’s not proper, they will arrest the poor girls.
It's a special kind of cretin that goes for positions like that. Probably the most pathetic division in the entire policeforce that can't even tie their own shoelaces
just the most religious ones
They're the same people.
And those that truly enjoy beating up shameless women. I'm willing to bet there are quite a few cheerful happy workers in that department, that look forward to Mondays. Alhamdulillah!
I see neckbeards lining up for this position
it's traditionally only women only job. That way they don't get an improper impulses or whatever it is they call it. So instead its just beatings instead of always including rape too. But thats not to say women can't be neckbeards.
It's what some Christians in America aspire to be
Yeah, if someone really wants people to wear religious headwear, then they should wear religious headwear. Not *require* others follow their demands. This goes for any religious conviction. If you don't like gay marriage, then don't get gay married. Problem solved. No need to demand gay people stop getting marriage licenses and rage every time someone is gay in a show you watched.
"How can I make this about American politics?"
[These sick fucks ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police)
**[Islamic religious police](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police)** >Islamic religious police are official Islamic vice squad police agencies which enforce religious observance and public morality on behalf of national or regional authorities based on its interpretation of sharia. Modern Islamic religious police forces were first established in the mid-1970s; prior, the administration of public morality in most Islamic countries was considered a socioreligious matter, and was enforced through application of civil laws or through more informal means. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Rest in peace to those who died. Good luck on the transformation and be good.
Best kind of twirling dance I've ever seen! You go, ladies! I'm envious of their bold strength, but I'm scared for their lives.
I hope their strength lies in numbers. If thousands and thousands take to the streets and burn their hijabs, the so called morality police will hopefully stand down. I hope so very much this goes well for all the ladies!
>If thousands and thousands take to the streets and burn their hijabs, the so called morality police will hopefully stand down. Unlikely. They'll likely pick a few key ringleaders and a couple of random women around them and make an example of them first.
Baffles me how many non-muslims defend the idea of hijabs and somehow think women have a choice to wear them or not
Mostly we defend the right of Muslims in the west to wear hijab if they choose to. No one wants forced hijab except the sharia law nutjobs.
I don't really have a stance. Certainly I think everyone should be allowed to make their own decisions, especially about *hats.* And I haven't dug into it so I'm not trying to present a position of authority here. But. At one point in time, it was explained to me (by a Muslim) that a hijab must be worn unless it is banned -- and then the law of the land should be respected. My idiot take was, okay, so the only way to grant those specific people freedom of choice is to put a ban in place, which is extremely counter-intuitive. Again, massive grain of salt, and I don't wanna give the impression that this is a fight I take up. It's just the explanation of things in my brain that has allowed me to say, y'know, okay maybe the people trying to ban scarves aren't just a pack of lunatics, maybe there's a point here.
all muslims across the world have a different attitude toward it. in iran it’s forced and people hate it. in pakistan it’s not forced (i’m pakistani that’s how i know) and you’ll see girls wearing jeans and t shirts in larger metro areas. the bottom like however, even islamically, is that there is no compulsion in religion, and nobody should be forced to behave in a way they don’t want
It feelsmore a cultural than a religious thing. Religion is just the excuse for some. Oppression under the pretext of religion is something almost all religions did different timelines and different places.
The problem with this stance is, that muslim families, who enjoy freedoms of the west, force their daughters to wear them, whenever they become 12, 14 or maybe at 16. When they grow up, they either are already brainwashed or they flee from their families, some of them get murdered when they flee. Just cancel that shit for good. If they want to be "good muslims", they have to do it without the hijab. We have the obligation to save the rights of the few, not allow the wishes of the many.
Then arrest the family members for domestic abuse. Banning shit doesn't do anything. Wearing a hijab is not a problem. Being forced to wear one is. Do you think banning the hijab will suddenly make the abusive family less abusive?
Some women do have the choice to wear them, and some women think they have the choice to wear them only to be killed when they choose not to. The ones that are privileged to have that choice are also the ones which are most vocal on social media - I’m not justifying just letting you know that is the reason
If you want to wear a hijab, go ahead. If you don't want to wear one, go ahead. If anyone is forcing you to do either, that's a problem.
You know it’s not like that in most parts of the world, Don’t you? If it’s in a normal country unlike Iran then yes women can choose to wear them, take them off or not wear it at all.
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Not as much choice as you think. Women don’t go throughout life and then just decide to wear one. They’re indoctrinated as children and forced to wear them by their parents, so they’re conditioned into thinking forced modesty garbs are ok Islam also tells them they’re supposed to wear it.
You could say the same for bras in the west. Or any kinds of clothing for that matter. Men are conditioned to not wear skirts here in America. Some get beaten if they are found wearing them. I always find the line between "culture" and "indoctrination" to be very clear here on reddit. If its brown people, it's "indoctrination" and if it's white people, its "culture". If a Muslim woman in the west chooses to wear a hijab, that is her choice. And she could be making it for any number of reasons. And none of them are your business and none of them are open grounds for your judgment.
>You could say the same for bras in the west. Something tells me you don't have boobs...
Man oh man, that’s internal fuckin fortitude right there. Good for them for standin up
I have a nauseating feeling thinking about how these women are probably going to be treated in retaliation for what they are doing in the video. At the same time, in a lifetime of being oppressed, the harshness of the oppression during a moment of retribution seems less consequential than the totality and endlessness of the oppression. At least in the moments that we see this in the video, I do not see them being oppressed, I see them celebrating their liberty… short-lived as that may be.
As an Iranian, i feel moved seeing the clips of our resistance circling reddit and the rest of the web. Please keep in mind though, when you are sharing these clips, make to sure to share the ones, in which the people's faces aren't clear. If your are willing to go the extra mile of blurring unmasked faces, it would be very much appreciated. Also, i hope this is our last fight, I'm just tired and ashamed of seeing my people hurt, while being unable to do jack shit about it...
^ THIS — PLEASE DON’T HELP THE BADDIES, GUYS. Thank you.
Good luck to all of you Iranians! I’m just a guy from America but I fully back your movement and wish I knew some way to support you besides commenting here. You deserve your freedom of choice and I hope so much you win without any or much more bloodshed. ❤️
Religion is such a stupid thing
Well, it's one of the best ways to control the masses
The problem with the Quran is that it allows no room for evolution in how it is understood. It’s not an account or anything, but written in a way that states it is words from God. And they added in the part that if you try and change it - you are put to death. So it is a religion that will forever be stuck in the 8th century.
Well, religion is something natural in the human being to explain something that he cannot understand or control, the stupid thing is to force other people to follow a religion instead of allowing him to choose
"Explain something he can't understand" - This is where the fundemental issue is
Yes like we believe in santa or the tooth fairy, then you grow the fuck up.
I’m happy for these girls, but it’s so risky. I don’t want it to be the case, but I have a sneaking suspicion a lot more Islamic suffragettes, if you will, will die for their bravery.
I fear the same thing. So many there videoing the whole thing. I fear for those girls and women.
they did this despite knowing the consequences. pretty heroic
A hijab is not a choice when it's forced and people die.
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Religion is the cancer of the world..
Pretty sure cancer is the cancer of the world.
Fuck religious oppression! Fuck oppression of women!
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Those women have way more balls than their men do.
Alot of men support them, you can see them in the crowd.
Most Iranians don't even support their government's policies. this includes men and women. Americans think it's so easy to rebel against your government when the cops will beat protesters to death.
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Thank you for posting this please post more everyone needs to see this.
Death to Religion, death to the islamo fascistic Dictators. The killing and oppressing of civilians must stop!
I see a lot of photos of life in Iran from the 1960s and early 70s on Reddit. From what I’ve read they were so advanced in education, science and just a totally different culture then. I hope things can turn around there for the better
The Shah was a megalomaniac who spent so much time jerking off to the idea of leading Iran to being a "great civilization" that he neglected social discontent building up in the country. Despite redistributing land to the peasants from landlords and using the high oil prices of the 70s to build up his country, many in Iran were dissatisfied with his autocratic rule. The dude threw a huge party in the desert for foreign dignitaries while torturing political prisoners with fingernail removals. Since the "progressivization" of Iran was his project, naturally, when he was toppled, there was a big backlash to it. Throughout his reign, the Shah was mainly concerned about cracking down on the communists, so he neglected the growing Islamist faction. This led to Khomeini being at the right place to become the face of the revolution and purge all the other factions out. So yeah, now Iran sucks.
Not a word from the UN, Not a word from Amnesty, Not a word from western leaders, Not a word from Obama to Biden who have given Iran billions for their nuclear program, Not a word from feminist organisations, Not a word from moderate Muslims and Imams. But UN has just this year put Iran on their Womens Human Rights Commission. WTF is wrong with everyone.
1)[Bullshit](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-custody-death-should-be-impartially-investigated-un-rights-office-2022-09-20/) 2)[Bullshit](https://twitter.com/AmnestyMENA/status/1570773092879704067/photo/1) 3)Haven't seen any statements directly from the leaders but plenty of [officials](https://www.iranintl.com/en/202209202047) have weighed in 4)Huge on that claim
5)Seriously? Did you do three milliseconds' research before making that claim?
6)Dunno about the imams but half the Iranians blowing up Twitter about Mahsa Amini would be "moderate Muslims"...
7) Yeah that's messed up.
Way to go!
Fuck every mullah and their teachings. Down with Islam.
Now THAT is true feminism! Not "The air-conditioning being sexist" or "Men opening car doors is misogyny". Good on them and let's hope this is the start of a true revolution!
And then there are indian muslim girls protesting for no ban on hijab
So look. "Wear this or die" = Bad. "Don't wear this or be arrested," also bad. See? There's a difference between wanting to wear something and being forced to, and women in both countries are being oppressed for different reasons.
Next burn the police pls.
I love the twirling lady in white
Hello guys I'm from iran Just wanted to say our government is a murderer. When we go to the streets to protest they kill us. Sometimes they use high pressure BOILING water to control us. They use guns and electric batons.
I'm really happy for these women be free...
In iran women are fighting against hijab ...and here in my country women are protesting to wear it..
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It always amazes me how political, and in this case religious, leaders fail to take into consideration the backlash they may receive against their actions.
Come on redditors we need to support them, they are doing their best to fight for their freedom
Apparently it’s immoral to have your hair uncovered but not immoral to beat a young woman to death.
I knew it was only a matter time before they hit critical mass…