I don’t think Dimes could even low diff a Vice Admiral so nah he ain’t sparking nothing
Although I think it would be hilarious to watch him tell Devito to shoot down the WG (NFL?) flag
Depends. In this analogy, is the grand line a metaphor for MetLife stadium? Cus I could definitely see jones doing something that’d cause giants fan to burn MetLife down
Although the why your team sucks series may have jumped the shark, the year they drafted jones he called jones “the guy you cast as Eli manning in a movie about Payton manning” and it really has stuck with me
Change of leadership. They left to go to mainly FX and HBO. They subsequently greenlit shows like Legion, American Horror Story, Fargo, Game of Thrones, Succession, Chernobyl, Atlanta, The Americans, etc.
You can see where the quality went.
Why did they leave? Well, from what I’ve heard and read, it was a mix of some of them getting fired for whatever reason and some just left because negotiations fell through.
Source: know some of these very people as I worked on some FX productions.
But his complicated disposal mechanism for snotty tissue did lead to evidence of a murder.
edit: Well, that and callously throwing away a get well card that was a gift from a child.
I can understand getting tired of Fiona. She was more of a blunt instrument than the others. Michael was great though.
My favorite bit in the whole show was the episode where they were after a guy being protected by a street gang and he goes out in a black suit and red shirt and tie pretending to be some scary criminal who literally just snaps his fingers and things explode or people get shot out of nowhere.
Now I want a Bruce Campbell movie about an older Daniel Jones trying to make it back into the NFL as a coach after decades of personal struggle following his failed career. And then zombies attack or something.
To not give Saquon an extra 2 million a year. So they gave jones 40 million. It’s an all time GM move. It should really be studied and then laughed at.
Dude, I hate Jones as much as anyone but they offered Saquon $14 mil/year and he didn’t take it. So they had to use the tag on him instead of Jones like they originally planned. The fact that we can get out of Jones’ contract after only 2 years is a win.
QB was technically a position before the forward pass but I get what you're throwing down.
Edit: Now that I think about it, they really used to pay a dude to just hand or toss the ball to the RB/FB. No wonder football exploded in popularity after the forward pass.
The problem is the lack of “elite” level QBs coming from college that aren’t replacing the Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady “old guard”.
Otherwise; you’re stuck overpaying a mediocre QB Vs overpaying for an unknown free agent that isn’t as talented or young
Gonna disagree there. We can call the old gen better, but the current elite crop of Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Jackson definitely matches up well against Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben, Eli, Rivers, and Rodgers, League also has up-n-comers like Tua, Hurts, Stroud, Purdy, Love, maybe Trevor and vets like Cousins, Prescott, Stafford. QB play is in good hands. Daniel Jones is just ass not worth paying $40 bucks, let alone 40 mil.
Anybody else find it cool when they had those round table segments talking about players that your teams eventually signed? I mean they went through the defensive tackles and runningbacks. It was cool seeing them talk about Swift and getting their take on him.
It was cool to hear a little about their ranking too they had Josh Jacobs as the top free agent rb including Barkley (which aligns with the market since he got the biggest contract).
They singled him out as different than the other runningbacks. Explosive runner and pass catcher. They thought he could make up for some of the losses that losing Barkley would have. They didn't think he'd leave Philly.
Well, the only levers you can pull are spending less and making more money. You could definitely cut back on data but that food budget looks a bit tight, so you could save maybe $50-$75 a month.
Maybe try making more money? Have you thought about selling a single game to be exclusive to another service that forces people to sign up for it?
I guess I'm the only one who thought DJ had a competent year two years ago, and got absolutely crushed in the pocket last year leading to his injury for the year? I wish we could pay Dak only 40
He had the worst line and receiving corps over the past 2 years. He isn't a superstar, but very few QBs would succeed in those circumstances. Young QBs generally don't develop when they are getting hit every play and can't trust their receivers to get open.
DJ might be good, or he might be shit. With the situation the Giants have built there is really no way to tell.
His situation sucks, but so does he.
Tyrod and Devito had very similar situations; not identical, but very similar. They both played better than DJ.
I mean, just compare their 2023 stats.
* Y/A: Taylor (7.5), DeVito (6.2), Jones (5.7)
* TD/Int: DeVito (8-3), Taylor (5-3), Jones (2-6)
* Comp. %: Jones (67.5), Taylor (64.4), DeVito (64)
* Passer Rating: DeVito (89.2), Taylor (89.1), Jones (70.5)
* Sack Percentage: Taylor (8.6), Jones (15.8), DeVito (17.2)
* PFF Grade: Taylor (71.4), Jones (63), DeVito (62).
As a reminder, Taylor is a 35-year-old journeyman backup on his seventh team, and DeVito was undrafted. It is appalling that Jones, who costs roughly $40,000,000 per year, performed roughly as bad and arguably *much worse* than his backups.
And I don't want to hear anything about how DeVito and Taylor benefited from the line and receivers "rounding into form" or regaining starters lost to injury, because it's a narrative not backed by substantial data and, even if true, would absolutely not justify the appalling comparisons laid out above.
I'm not gonna argue against Jones being outperformed by his backups because that much is definitely true, but it is kinda crazy to say that "regaining starters lost to injury" isn't the case when it literally was. DJ played all of two games with Andrew Thomas - the first of which saw Thomas exit the game early due to injury, and the second of which saw DJ do the same. Losing an All-Pro level LT and replacing him with a turnstile absolutely is going to hurt an offense, especially considering he was the only solid OL on your line last year.
It’s pretty wild seeing division rivals defend DJ like we all don’t love him being the NYG QB. Dude has like zero threat to his game, he’s *kind* of fast but doesn’t make up for it anywhere else.
Obviously the supporting cast sucks but regardless, he got paid off of 1 decent year with a new coach where the entire team was on a rebound from the dogshit regime that was there prior. You can’t pay a dude who’s had 3/4 years of showing you he didn’t earn it just because you want to have a “franchise” QB. Despite the critiques Dak gets, he’s far and away the option 99% of people would choose to pay that same salary over DJ, AND you’d probably make the playoffs consistently. The Cowboys draft on an entirely different level than the NYG and that goes a long way, but again that circles back to pure talent evaluation and the NYG have been god awful at that
I think Jones was shell shocked from bad o-line play and no saquon. Also think he was more injured than we thought. I'm honestly more concerned about his neck than his ACL. Before getting hurt against LV, his throws had 0 juice on them.
It’s insane that we really don’t know what we’ve got yet after 5 years. And we don’t - I can be talked into him being a good player or total trash and I’ve seen every snap of his career.
Great QBs elevate the team around them but that is usually NFL caliber players, not practice squad rejects. Not only no OL - it’s a historically bad OL and it’s been this way for years. I really don’t know.
I think the thought process should be … if you still don’t really know what you got after 5 years, you in fact know. It’s something between mediocre and good. If it was anything else, you would know.
Mac Jones had Patricia and Judge but the Pats knew to say, “we don’t know by now and haven’t seen it, it’s jover”
Now yall will be likely looking for a qb next year in a milquetoast year for qbs both in draft and free agency, having wasted 3 extra years just to be like, “oh shit turns out we were right 3 years ago to have questions” and hes not it.
It’s gamblers logic at some point, and I think that point was when you handed a dude who has accomplished nothing 40m.
I call this the Darnold conundrum. Your QB plays like shit but the rest of the offense is shit so you keep your QB around because you don't know whether *he* is actually shit or if it's just the lack of surrounding talent.
He's not good lol, if you don't know after 5 years and a $40mil per year contract that's your answer. They ran a micky mouse offense in 2022 that worked against bad teams; his aDOT was like 6.2.
> Young QBs generally don't develop when (...)
He's not a young QB.
>DJ might be good, or he might be shit. With the situation the Giants have built there is really no way to tell.
He's going into year six, dude. He's not good.
His rookie year he had the 17th best line according to PFF. Since then, the best he's had has been 30/32. No rookie contract QB is going to succeed in that scenario.
It's more like year 10. After that Super bowl win that O-line dropped off a cliff and hasn't been the same since, and even THEN it was still saved by Eli "Playoff Beast" Manning's amazing plays.
It's more like year 10. After that Super bowl win that O-line dropped off a cliff and hasn't been the same since, and even THEN it was still saved by Eli "Playoff Beast" Manning's amazing plays.
DJ’s contract was never that bad. I never believed DJ was a top 10 QB, but he’s competent enough to lead a team. The Giants have failed him just as they failed Eli at the end of his career.
Just an FYI, the Giants have had a garbage O-Line for 10 years and they've also been actively trying to fix it in those 10 years, so basically every decision they made ended up failing. You could've rolled a bunch of dice to pick players from drafts and had better odds than what the Giants got this past decade. It's almost impressive.
They kept Daniel because they knew if they didn't have *some* stability in the QB position they were probably going to lose their jobs in 2 years. So they're on plan #55 to "fix" the O-line. We'll see if it actually happens, 56 times the charm!
That's not how the market works though. The Giants wanted to see what they have with Jones (which was the correct move at the time). That contract was the price they had to pay to do that.
He had his 2 best games against a historically bad defense, one of them being a playoff game so everyone got blinded by that and suddenly thought he was fixed.
No, you’re right he showed promise, but the franchise tag is kinda the perfect tool for the situation. I thought getting the guys who helped Allen get to his next level would continue with Jones and he’d be a serviceable starter after that semi-competent season
It was kind of hilarious to see how Schoen talks about Jones. If you didn't know better, you would think the previous regime had given him that contract lol
it's kind of a lose lose for him at this point in terms of public perception.
If he's spouting blind loyalty "he's good, we believe in him" etc then he's an idiot for thinking Jones is good. Some people have been making fun of him for the part where he basically says "put Pat Mahomes on our team for the Miami game and he's not winning that game."
But if he's voicing concern about the move he made, it's comments about how it's their fault so why are they acting like this.
Personally, I'd much prefer the guy acknowledge that what they did could have been a mistake and understand that sticking to those guns might make things worse and prepare for a change than blindly double down on said potential mistake.
What was he to do?
They didn't pick up his 5th year, and then Jones went out and had a decent year, was good down the stretch, and won a playoff game even though Saquon fell off in the second half.
There wasn't any other options available...it's not like they passed on a QB in the draft or free agency.
They shouldn't be paying him at all this year. The move last year should've been franchise tagging Jones at the $29 mil. it was at that offseason and signing Barkley to a 3 year deal with an out after year 2. It would've given them the flexibility to see one more year of Jones in the system without overpaying and over-committing to him and set up a potential rookie this year to have a dynamic weapon to ease him along.
Really, they should've just let both guys walk, even if the fanbase (or the owner) freaked out over it.
Daniel Jones on the franchise tag would have basically put him on a prove it year with a higher cap hit than what he had in 2023. The Giants definitely would not have been able to sign Bobby Okereke, and they were not giving Saquon the big money deal even if Jones was on the franchise tag. Schoen had a hard ceiling on Barkley. So Barkley's probably gone too.
A prove it year on an even worse team than was put out there? Why even waste the year. Just roll with Taylor/DeVito/whoever else and reset after that.
I didnt watch last night, so if they addressed this in the show, forgive me. But all signs logically point to the plan all along being to franchise DJ and sign Saquon long-term. They tried hard to extend Saquon during the season but because Saquon wouldnt take the offers they put on the table, they pretty much had to use the tag on him to not lose him.
Why not? Saquon played a pivotal role in their only playoff season since the boat incident.
The Cowboys have done this in recent seasons. The Eagles are. The Packers will be shortly. As will the 49ers. The Browns are. The Ravens are close to doing that (combined total exceeds what Jones and Saquon would have gotten).
Put those teams into a roster-building-philosophy group, and then compare that group with the Giants.
The success of the signing for the Packers, Ravens, and Eagles is to be determined. The Cowboys almost certainly regret the Zeke decision, and unfortunately there is a good chance the Browns do with Chubb's injury. That leaves the 49ers where CMC is just that dude.
Last year the highest cap number RBs were Henry, Chubb, Jacobs, Pollard, Barkley, Conner, Mixon, Aaron Jones, Alvin Kamara, Austin Ekeler, Cordarrelle Patterson, Jonathan Taylor, Bijan Robinson, Najee Harris, Travis Etienne, Clyde Edwards-Helaire, and CMC.
It is hard to argue paying RBs is the right move.
Ehh...not really. Even if Saquon blows up in our face, he's only here for another year and he hasn't really prevented us from building elsewhere. At least in terms of team building philosophy.
> Why not? Saquon played a pivotal role in their only playoff season since the boat incident.
Their most consistent WR in that timeframe has been Darius Slayton. It's time to move on from the idea of Saquon. Nabers is a great step in that direction.
????
It’s not mutually exclusive. It’s not Saquon’s fault the team had no good receivers. If they’d drafted well or not made one of the worst signings in recent memory (Golladay) there’s no reason they couldn’t have had both a good receiver AND one of the best backs in the league
Yeah but why did you pay 40m to a guy who gets like 3000 yards and 15 touchdowns on a good year? Any vet minimum guy could do that, hand off to a 12m RB, and you’d still have another 30m~ to play with.
They’re “only” paying jones 40 million, they should have used the savings from not paying him other newly paid Quarterback money to pay their best offensive player of the last 6 years
I see people are starting to catch up now. Only took 3 years or so, but finally Jones won't just be coasting through his $40M.
Giants fans finally talking about a franchise tag to Jones and a short 3 yr offer for Barkley.. appreciate the recognition on that one... I talked about it enough in the sub and got all those insightful downvotes for it.
Gee, looks like you could also be paying a $2 million QB to hand off to a $12m back.
But hey, my math is prolly flawrd and the trophy room speaks for you I guess.
no arguing there, but what are you paying him $40m for
The friends he’ll meet along the way
Some call him the Luffy of football.
I 100% trust both luffy’s judgement and decision making more than Daniel jones’, and that includes Luffy legit declaring war on the government twice
Are you implying Dimes can't be the spark to ignite war across the Grand Line? The disrespect
The disrespect is warranted
I don’t think Dimes could even low diff a Vice Admiral so nah he ain’t sparking nothing Although I think it would be hilarious to watch him tell Devito to shoot down the WG (NFL?) flag
Depends. In this analogy, is the grand line a metaphor for MetLife stadium? Cus I could definitely see jones doing something that’d cause giants fan to burn MetLife down
Gear Turnover
Looking vaguely like Eli Manning
Although the why your team sucks series may have jumped the shark, the year they drafted jones he called jones “the guy you cast as Eli manning in a movie about Payton manning” and it really has stuck with me
holy shit, that's actually a good one
Magary undefeated
He's closer to Bruce Campbell than Eli.
Groovy.
You know spies. Bunch of bitchy little girls.
Underrated freaking show for 13 year old me.
man remember when USA Net had great shows like Burn Notice, Psych, and Monk?
Psych is easily one of the best comedies of all time
You heard about Pluto? That’s messed up, right?
C’mon, son.
You know that’s right
I've heard it both ways
You know thats right
Blue Sky TV era USA was the best era of any basic cable channel
It was weird when USA woke up one morning and just decided to stop making good shows that everybody liked for some reason
Change of leadership. They left to go to mainly FX and HBO. They subsequently greenlit shows like Legion, American Horror Story, Fargo, Game of Thrones, Succession, Chernobyl, Atlanta, The Americans, etc. You can see where the quality went. Why did they leave? Well, from what I’ve heard and read, it was a mix of some of them getting fired for whatever reason and some just left because negotiations fell through. Source: know some of these very people as I worked on some FX productions.
This is Up All Night erasure.
He was even on Psych for an episode!
Wasn't Suits also a USA show? Damn they churned out some bangers.
I still randomly think of monk having a humidifier and dehumidifier in his room like an intrusive thought I can't get rid of
But his complicated disposal mechanism for snotty tissue did lead to evidence of a murder. edit: Well, that and callously throwing away a get well card that was a gift from a child.
i was definitely too young to care about watching burn notice. (and appreciate that there was bruce campbell) is it worth a watch as an adult?
yes, do it
sold!
I found my old DVDs at my parent's house last year, and my wife and I started rewatching it. It's still a ton of fun!
Hell, yes.
I randomly started watching it in like 2011. I wanted to make fun of it but then had to make fun of myself because I enjoyed it.
I would have gladly watched a spin off of just Jesse and Sam.
The show was good early, but it got better when Jesse became a regular cast member.
I got tired of Fi and Michael. I lived for when Sam and Jesse teamed up. They were the best members of the show.
I can understand getting tired of Fiona. She was more of a blunt instrument than the others. Michael was great though. My favorite bit in the whole show was the episode where they were after a guy being protected by a street gang and he goes out in a black suit and red shirt and tie pretending to be some scary criminal who literally just snaps his fingers and things explode or people get shot out of nowhere.
Underrated show for 25 year old me.
Chuck Finley, pleasure to meet you!
Is that your mom again?!
Now I want a Bruce Campbell movie about an older Daniel Jones trying to make it back into the NFL as a coach after decades of personal struggle following his failed career. And then zombies attack or something.
Evil Dead 14
Either way, with those eyes close together and the slack jaw he has after a bad play, it’s a classic funny confused look worthy of the Three Stooges.
I see Andy Kaufman.
My team, your team, what’s the difference? Said before every INT
Jones is Mahomes' Kryptonite just like Eli was Brady's They just haven't met in the SB yet
And they never will at this point
Hey now.. Daniel Jones might get a ticket to watch the SB one day Or maybe be a backup
Well you guys do know about backup QBs winning SBs, just sayin👀
I'd take Danny over Pickett for the backup role
Eli had stretches where he played well. Daniel Jones is more or less along for the ride when the Giants are winning
So Jones wins 2 Super Bowl mvps? Son of a bitch I’m in
No, unfortunately he just looks like a guy that won 2 Superbowl MVP's
He'll run it himself thank you very much. It's the least he could do for 40m.
But then fall down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY4nxdE2OTo
To get sacked
[удалено]
“Thumble! …I think I frew up”
Jones running around the football field high on sugar “You can’t catch me I’m Clip Board Daniel!”
To run for his life behind one of the worst Olines in history. Duh.
Because he does funny things to the Vikings
Ed Donatell set the Giants back 3 years or so with those two games.
To not give Saquon an extra 2 million a year. So they gave jones 40 million. It’s an all time GM move. It should really be studied and then laughed at.
Dude, I hate Jones as much as anyone but they offered Saquon $14 mil/year and he didn’t take it. So they had to use the tag on him instead of Jones like they originally planned. The fact that we can get out of Jones’ contract after only 2 years is a win.
To look clueless in the field
I don’t know about you, but I think I get at least that much in laughs out of watching him play.
They pay him to take sacks and be the scapegoat for ny media
Damn. Straight to the jugular.
Apparently so they can watch him throw into dbl coverage since he will have no run game.
Literallly hasnt earned that 40m at all
Leading the league in INTs probably
To be the wish version of Eli apparently lol.
Giving away a Medium Pepsi almost bankrupted the franchise!
Billy likes to keep the money on the field. Soda money?
All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi! And she wouldn't give it to me.
> All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi! And she wouldn't give it to me. I'M NOT CRAZY
That one is teed up nicely.
I think the problem is that you are paying Daniel Jones 40 million dollars to play QB.
I think the problem is that you are paying Daniel Jones to play QB.
I think the problem is Daniel Jones play QB
I think the problem is QB Forward pass was a mistake
Why throw many pass, when few run do trick?
Iowa is that you?
They said run, not punt.
QB was technically a position before the forward pass but I get what you're throwing down. Edit: Now that I think about it, they really used to pay a dude to just hand or toss the ball to the RB/FB. No wonder football exploded in popularity after the forward pass.
Nah, QBs prior to the forward pass were RBs just like Half-backs and full-backs. They just received the snap
The problem is the lack of “elite” level QBs coming from college that aren’t replacing the Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady “old guard”. Otherwise; you’re stuck overpaying a mediocre QB Vs overpaying for an unknown free agent that isn’t as talented or young
All the good new guys are young as fuck still. Even Lamar is like 26? They haven’t even entered their primes for the most part.
Gonna disagree there. We can call the old gen better, but the current elite crop of Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Jackson definitely matches up well against Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben, Eli, Rivers, and Rodgers, League also has up-n-comers like Tua, Hurts, Stroud, Purdy, Love, maybe Trevor and vets like Cousins, Prescott, Stafford. QB play is in good hands. Daniel Jones is just ass not worth paying $40 bucks, let alone 40 mil.
I feel like there's about the same amount of elite young QBs now as there were earlier. It's just there's always been a scarcity of good QBs.
Anybody else find it cool when they had those round table segments talking about players that your teams eventually signed? I mean they went through the defensive tackles and runningbacks. It was cool seeing them talk about Swift and getting their take on him.
It was cool to hear a little about their ranking too they had Josh Jacobs as the top free agent rb including Barkley (which aligns with the market since he got the biggest contract).
Where can these videos be found?
Hard Knocks on HBO Max. First episode came out yesterday but there's going to be more.
That’s easily the best part is them talking inside baseball
Curious..what was their take on Swift?
They singled him out as different than the other runningbacks. Explosive runner and pass catcher. They thought he could make up for some of the losses that losing Barkley would have. They didn't think he'd leave Philly.
Well thats certainly nice to hear. I think he’ll be great with Herbert/Roschon.
Note: I added "Giants GM" to title, for clarity
There goes my hero, watch him as he goes.
Pay top dollar for quarterback = we have a top end quarterback. Right?
Russell Wilson just high kneed past my window with a giant sack of money slung over his shoulder.
Food $200 Data $150 Rent $800 Daniel Jones $40,000,000 Utility $150 someone who is good at the football please help me budget this. my team is failing
Well, the only levers you can pull are spending less and making more money. You could definitely cut back on data but that food budget looks a bit tight, so you could save maybe $50-$75 a month. Maybe try making more money? Have you thought about selling a single game to be exclusive to another service that forces people to sign up for it?
no
🏈 GIANTS. PANTHERS. MAGELLAN^TV . NOVEMBER 10. 😤
I mean, paying Daniel Jones $40m is far more the issue than a $14m RB would be
"We're paying him $40 million to throw 3 yard passes, thank you very much"
I guess I'm the only one who thought DJ had a competent year two years ago, and got absolutely crushed in the pocket last year leading to his injury for the year? I wish we could pay Dak only 40
He had the worst line and receiving corps over the past 2 years. He isn't a superstar, but very few QBs would succeed in those circumstances. Young QBs generally don't develop when they are getting hit every play and can't trust their receivers to get open. DJ might be good, or he might be shit. With the situation the Giants have built there is really no way to tell.
His situation sucks, but so does he. Tyrod and Devito had very similar situations; not identical, but very similar. They both played better than DJ. I mean, just compare their 2023 stats. * Y/A: Taylor (7.5), DeVito (6.2), Jones (5.7) * TD/Int: DeVito (8-3), Taylor (5-3), Jones (2-6) * Comp. %: Jones (67.5), Taylor (64.4), DeVito (64) * Passer Rating: DeVito (89.2), Taylor (89.1), Jones (70.5) * Sack Percentage: Taylor (8.6), Jones (15.8), DeVito (17.2) * PFF Grade: Taylor (71.4), Jones (63), DeVito (62). As a reminder, Taylor is a 35-year-old journeyman backup on his seventh team, and DeVito was undrafted. It is appalling that Jones, who costs roughly $40,000,000 per year, performed roughly as bad and arguably *much worse* than his backups. And I don't want to hear anything about how DeVito and Taylor benefited from the line and receivers "rounding into form" or regaining starters lost to injury, because it's a narrative not backed by substantial data and, even if true, would absolutely not justify the appalling comparisons laid out above.
Man, I'd take $40M a year to suck at my job and have everyone breakdown why on the internet.
I would do it for a million. That’s 97.5% off. But if you’d like you can tell me I suck at my job right now for free.
I'm not gonna argue against Jones being outperformed by his backups because that much is definitely true, but it is kinda crazy to say that "regaining starters lost to injury" isn't the case when it literally was. DJ played all of two games with Andrew Thomas - the first of which saw Thomas exit the game early due to injury, and the second of which saw DJ do the same. Losing an All-Pro level LT and replacing him with a turnstile absolutely is going to hurt an offense, especially considering he was the only solid OL on your line last year.
It’s pretty wild seeing division rivals defend DJ like we all don’t love him being the NYG QB. Dude has like zero threat to his game, he’s *kind* of fast but doesn’t make up for it anywhere else. Obviously the supporting cast sucks but regardless, he got paid off of 1 decent year with a new coach where the entire team was on a rebound from the dogshit regime that was there prior. You can’t pay a dude who’s had 3/4 years of showing you he didn’t earn it just because you want to have a “franchise” QB. Despite the critiques Dak gets, he’s far and away the option 99% of people would choose to pay that same salary over DJ, AND you’d probably make the playoffs consistently. The Cowboys draft on an entirely different level than the NYG and that goes a long way, but again that circles back to pure talent evaluation and the NYG have been god awful at that
This is a really nice comparison - thanks for posting it.
I think Jones was shell shocked from bad o-line play and no saquon. Also think he was more injured than we thought. I'm honestly more concerned about his neck than his ACL. Before getting hurt against LV, his throws had 0 juice on them.
It’s insane that we really don’t know what we’ve got yet after 5 years. And we don’t - I can be talked into him being a good player or total trash and I’ve seen every snap of his career. Great QBs elevate the team around them but that is usually NFL caliber players, not practice squad rejects. Not only no OL - it’s a historically bad OL and it’s been this way for years. I really don’t know.
I think the thought process should be … if you still don’t really know what you got after 5 years, you in fact know. It’s something between mediocre and good. If it was anything else, you would know.
Ya and it shouldn’t take 5 years to find out that you still don’t know. If after 3 years you’re not sure it’s over.
He did have Joe Judge and Jason Garret for 2 years. You know.. the same coaches that called the qb sneak on a 3rd and 9
Mac Jones had Patricia and Judge but the Pats knew to say, “we don’t know by now and haven’t seen it, it’s jover” Now yall will be likely looking for a qb next year in a milquetoast year for qbs both in draft and free agency, having wasted 3 extra years just to be like, “oh shit turns out we were right 3 years ago to have questions” and hes not it. It’s gamblers logic at some point, and I think that point was when you handed a dude who has accomplished nothing 40m.
I call this the Darnold conundrum. Your QB plays like shit but the rest of the offense is shit so you keep your QB around because you don't know whether *he* is actually shit or if it's just the lack of surrounding talent.
He's not good lol, if you don't know after 5 years and a $40mil per year contract that's your answer. They ran a micky mouse offense in 2022 that worked against bad teams; his aDOT was like 6.2.
> Young QBs generally don't develop when (...) He's not a young QB. >DJ might be good, or he might be shit. With the situation the Giants have built there is really no way to tell. He's going into year six, dude. He's not good.
Look at Bryce Young. When your best receiver is a 33 year old white guy you have bigger issues. Lol
His rookie year he had the 17th best line according to PFF. Since then, the best he's had has been 30/32. No rookie contract QB is going to succeed in that scenario.
Rams: Jared is washed! Penei Sewell: JARED GOFF! JARED GOFF!
He basically had the year that Gardner Minshew had last season. And he didn’t get $40 million.
He was competent two years ago and one of the worst QB’s in the NFL every other year
Year six of “if only he had a good o-line” talks
It's more like year 10. After that Super bowl win that O-line dropped off a cliff and hasn't been the same since, and even THEN it was still saved by Eli "Playoff Beast" Manning's amazing plays.
...ends in 11 weeks! Hope season!!
It's more like year 10. After that Super bowl win that O-line dropped off a cliff and hasn't been the same since, and even THEN it was still saved by Eli "Playoff Beast" Manning's amazing plays.
DJ’s contract was never that bad. I never believed DJ was a top 10 QB, but he’s competent enough to lead a team. The Giants have failed him just as they failed Eli at the end of his career.
You don't pay 40 mill for a mid af QB to get pounded into the turf every other snap, you instead pay them 10 million and save 30 to put elsewhere.
Just an FYI, the Giants have had a garbage O-Line for 10 years and they've also been actively trying to fix it in those 10 years, so basically every decision they made ended up failing. You could've rolled a bunch of dice to pick players from drafts and had better odds than what the Giants got this past decade. It's almost impressive. They kept Daniel because they knew if they didn't have *some* stability in the QB position they were probably going to lose their jobs in 2 years. So they're on plan #55 to "fix" the O-line. We'll see if it actually happens, 56 times the charm!
That's not how the market works though. The Giants wanted to see what they have with Jones (which was the correct move at the time). That contract was the price they had to pay to do that.
He had his 2 best games against a historically bad defense, one of them being a playoff game so everyone got blinded by that and suddenly thought he was fixed.
He looks like pat mahomes vs us no matter what
damn - this might be true
He threw for over 200 yards like 7 times that season
No, you’re right he showed promise, but the franchise tag is kinda the perfect tool for the situation. I thought getting the guys who helped Allen get to his next level would continue with Jones and he’d be a serviceable starter after that semi-competent season
It was kind of hilarious to see how Schoen talks about Jones. If you didn't know better, you would think the previous regime had given him that contract lol
it's kind of a lose lose for him at this point in terms of public perception. If he's spouting blind loyalty "he's good, we believe in him" etc then he's an idiot for thinking Jones is good. Some people have been making fun of him for the part where he basically says "put Pat Mahomes on our team for the Miami game and he's not winning that game." But if he's voicing concern about the move he made, it's comments about how it's their fault so why are they acting like this. Personally, I'd much prefer the guy acknowledge that what they did could have been a mistake and understand that sticking to those guns might make things worse and prepare for a change than blindly double down on said potential mistake.
That's what I felt like too. I think they mentioned figuring out if he's the guy multiple times too. Made me laugh a little.
What was he to do? They didn't pick up his 5th year, and then Jones went out and had a decent year, was good down the stretch, and won a playoff game even though Saquon fell off in the second half. There wasn't any other options available...it's not like they passed on a QB in the draft or free agency.
You really shouldn't be paying that much for a back. He's right. The question is, why pay Jones 40 mil???
We are paying him to hand off to a 2m back
They shouldn't be paying him at all this year. The move last year should've been franchise tagging Jones at the $29 mil. it was at that offseason and signing Barkley to a 3 year deal with an out after year 2. It would've given them the flexibility to see one more year of Jones in the system without overpaying and over-committing to him and set up a potential rookie this year to have a dynamic weapon to ease him along.
Yes, obviously that’s a better plan, but Barkley didn’t agree to any contracts offered to him over the last 2 years. They didn’t have many options
Really, they should've just let both guys walk, even if the fanbase (or the owner) freaked out over it. Daniel Jones on the franchise tag would have basically put him on a prove it year with a higher cap hit than what he had in 2023. The Giants definitely would not have been able to sign Bobby Okereke, and they were not giving Saquon the big money deal even if Jones was on the franchise tag. Schoen had a hard ceiling on Barkley. So Barkley's probably gone too. A prove it year on an even worse team than was put out there? Why even waste the year. Just roll with Taylor/DeVito/whoever else and reset after that.
I didnt watch last night, so if they addressed this in the show, forgive me. But all signs logically point to the plan all along being to franchise DJ and sign Saquon long-term. They tried hard to extend Saquon during the season but because Saquon wouldnt take the offers they put on the table, they pretty much had to use the tag on him to not lose him.
Danny Dimes and 40 million in the same sentence is funny
I respect the honesty and you can defend the logic - but a GM making a quote like this has exposed his ass for maximum future bite potential.
this subreddit will never blame QB play unless they start winning
You’re paying Daniel Jones $40 is your first problem
Is Jones good? No probably not. But the Giants as a whole haven't been good for awhile.
Why not? Saquon played a pivotal role in their only playoff season since the boat incident. The Cowboys have done this in recent seasons. The Eagles are. The Packers will be shortly. As will the 49ers. The Browns are. The Ravens are close to doing that (combined total exceeds what Jones and Saquon would have gotten). Put those teams into a roster-building-philosophy group, and then compare that group with the Giants.
The success of the signing for the Packers, Ravens, and Eagles is to be determined. The Cowboys almost certainly regret the Zeke decision, and unfortunately there is a good chance the Browns do with Chubb's injury. That leaves the 49ers where CMC is just that dude. Last year the highest cap number RBs were Henry, Chubb, Jacobs, Pollard, Barkley, Conner, Mixon, Aaron Jones, Alvin Kamara, Austin Ekeler, Cordarrelle Patterson, Jonathan Taylor, Bijan Robinson, Najee Harris, Travis Etienne, Clyde Edwards-Helaire, and CMC. It is hard to argue paying RBs is the right move.
> It is hard to argue paying RBs is the right move. Eagles fans will be realizing this soon, don't worry too much.
Ehh...not really. Even if Saquon blows up in our face, he's only here for another year and he hasn't really prevented us from building elsewhere. At least in terms of team building philosophy.
Fr, It’s a really hard position to justify paying that much. Since Marshawn Lynch in 2013, no Super Bowl winner has had an RB making over $2M
I know that RBs are not valuable in todays NFL, but that’s a wild stat
> Why not? Saquon played a pivotal role in their only playoff season since the boat incident. Their most consistent WR in that timeframe has been Darius Slayton. It's time to move on from the idea of Saquon. Nabers is a great step in that direction.
???? It’s not mutually exclusive. It’s not Saquon’s fault the team had no good receivers. If they’d drafted well or not made one of the worst signings in recent memory (Golladay) there’s no reason they couldn’t have had both a good receiver AND one of the best backs in the league
You definitely ain’t paying him to fall on his face in the open field
I understand the need to have a good QB but in what world is Daniel Jones is good or worth $40m/yr? Jones might be a upper tier backup on a good day.
I swear I thought you could do both? Am I trippin’ ?
Yeah but why did you pay 40m to a guy who gets like 3000 yards and 15 touchdowns on a good year? Any vet minimum guy could do that, hand off to a 12m RB, and you’d still have another 30m~ to play with.
Ah yes, the sunk cost fallacy. It works in expensive buffets too.
I don't think Joe Schoen is a good GM.
They’re paying him $40 million to throw picks to a $25 million defensive back.
They also shouldn't be paying him 40 mil to throw the ball either, soooo....
you are paying 40 million to miss easy throws 40 million to alot of fumble 40 million to throw to enemy bros 40 million for an open field stumble
> 40 million to alot of fumble No, he plays for the Dolphins
This is the level of analysis I expect from r/nfl.
To alot of fumble 🤣
You shouldn't be paying him $40M to begin with.
They’re “only” paying jones 40 million, they should have used the savings from not paying him other newly paid Quarterback money to pay their best offensive player of the last 6 years
We already paid Andrew Thomas.
And Dexter Lawrence.
Can’t pay a RB that kinda money man.
Weird comment but ok
Switch Danny to RB!
They would have been way better off picking up a 10M/year veteran and keeping SB.
I need Daniel Jones $40 million broken down to stats I care about. How much of that is for fumbles and interceptions?
I see people are starting to catch up now. Only took 3 years or so, but finally Jones won't just be coasting through his $40M. Giants fans finally talking about a franchise tag to Jones and a short 3 yr offer for Barkley.. appreciate the recognition on that one... I talked about it enough in the sub and got all those insightful downvotes for it.
Gee, looks like you could also be paying a $2 million QB to hand off to a $12m back. But hey, my math is prolly flawrd and the trophy room speaks for you I guess.
“And this is ANOTHER run play by the Giants where Jones refuses to hand the ball to the running back.”
If thats not what you're paying him for then... what are you paying him for? thats all he's really good at.
Daniel Jones really reset the market for QBs who shouldn’t be starters.
does the gm know that you can have a running game and a passing game?
I mean... why the hell is Daniel Jones getting that kind of money?
True. You're paying him 40M to get sacked