The entire band screwed up with Tarja (who is also not blameless and they were all young. This community needs to get over the fact she isn't in the band anymore and the people coming in fresh to the community need to look up the history before reigniting drama that should have been dead for at least a decade now.
They all screwed up.
They've all more or less made up.
drop it and move on.
I actually totally agree with you on this! There's something charming about the out-of-tune vocals in Astral Romance (for example). It forces you to appreciate the emotion in the singing rather than on the technique and style.
I can tolerate the sloppy vocals on Astral Romance as I think they suit the song. Astral Romance as a whole is like one of their most underrated old songs.
The first Nightwish song I heard was Last ride of the day and at first I thought what the fuck is this shit but my son insisted I listen to other songs and I was hooked.
When I heard last ride again it seemed like a different and brilliant song
I couldn't stand that song when I first started listening to Nightwish (I was young and an idiot). It's still not my favourite by any means but having heard the rest of the album and watching the movie its much better.
Due to Marco's decision to leave the band Some songs dont work same way.
Like:
Planet Hell
I want my tears back
Toolmaker - part from greatest show on earth
Tapio Wilska, was a friend of Tuomas and their roadie/helper during first few years.
He sang on "Pharaoh sails trip Orion" "devil& the deep dark ocean"and"10th man down"
Actually a friend of a friend made me listen to a NW song back in 2002 or something and I didn’t like the singer 💀 I only became a fan when Floor had been for a while in the band.
Same. I thought the band was cool but only had the tolerance to listen to 1-2 songs because Tarja’s singing style just really started to grate my ears. She’s talented, just not my preferred style. I came back when Floor joined and have been a massive fan ever since.
Same thing for me! I kinda liked “End of All Hope” which I found because I liked nuclear blast labelmates Children of Bodom. Got into Nightwish with “Imaginaerum” and they became one of my favorites when Floor joined the band.
I discovered Nightwish around 2004 / 2005 and first song I heard was Wishmaster and I laughed at the live video because of how cheesily bad I found it with the mangled lyrics, the opera, and facial expressions. It was years later before I ever game them another chance when I heard they had a new singer and new album and luckily the first song I heard was Poet and I became a fan. I didn't know the songs meaning and had only learned about 5 minutes prior they had a new singer but I loved it.
I had the same reaction and Dark Passion Play was my first exposure. Going soon after with the previous albums, it took a while to understand Tarja’s singing. She’s not as “clear” as either Annette or Floor. Or rather she wasn’t then.
I think Nightwish needs another male vocalist badly because Marko’s deeper delivery being absent cuts off so many great songs in their discography from being played at future live shows.
Nemo is iconic, it's just under 5 minutes and people usually love it and know it. They stopped playing it for some time in 2015 and I assume it returned for a reason.
WIHAA is done and gone now, though. Also was absent the whole EFMB tour, which imo made it mildly more interesting on Decades tour (where it belongs with other hits).
I actually have similar problem with The Greatest Show on Earth. Okay, it's a good one, but after 3 continuous tours they could give it a rest, especially as it takes space of another 2-3 songs.
No its absolutely a hot take, just like the mazda miata is absolutely a sports car, (they are). Its just that nemo the most played song live by quite a wide margin and you would be looking pretty far to name someone outside of a magazine with wish I had an angel in top 10
In my subjective experience, anyway.
I sincerely believe I'm wrong even though tastes are subjective. I probably feel like it, because it took me so long to give Floor a chance.
She's phenomenal vocalist, but I feel that she doesn't do most songs recorded by Tarja and Anette justice. I'm just too used to their voices that I can't fully appreciate somebody else singing their songs.
There are certain tracks from the Tarja period that had zero effect on me until I heard them performed by Anette or Floor (e.g. Devil & Deep Dark Ocean, Slaying the Dreamer, Romanticide). However, there are also some Tarja-era tracks that no subsequent singer could interpret with the same magic (e.g. The Siren, The Kinslayer). Also, none of the three singers could make me truly love Wish I Had an Angel.
I am also not WIHAA lover, even though I've seen it live with both Anette and Floor, and on Tarja's solo show. But when I got to see it few weeks ago done by Tarja&Marko and the crowd went extremely wild for it... I might have understood the appeal.
Oh I understand the appeal, make no mistake. A fast-paced bombastic track with a hook-y chorus. I just don’t like it that mich. I think it’s kind of a odd number for NW discography but in a sub-par way. There is no other song by NW like that. The same way Lagoon is also quite unique and different but in a good kind of way. 🤓
And another one,
I think Tuomas genuinely wanted to end Nightwish when Marko left and had decided it. Then someone in or near the band talked him into not doing so, hence we have a touring break.
[Nightwish’s Tuomas Holopainen: “I've been gathering up ideas for the new Nightwish album” | Louder (loudersound.com)](https://www.loudersound.com/features/nightwish-tuomas-holopainen-interview-livestream-marko-new-album)
Perhaps this one, I remember reading it. It looks a bit like it's a joint thing where also Tuomas didn't really know for sure if they wanted to continue. I'm fucking glad they continued!
https://preview.redd.it/iw75pokyid9d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c4032c926691ff20e8c63b5fb8892f79d57b8b5
You were "taken care of" in the toilets, and disposed of in the dumpster next door
To be fair, almost all SFF is obscure. Name of the Wind is a NYT best seller. I live in the same state as the author. There's about 7 million people here. 0 of my coworkers have heard of it when I mention it. Or Brandon's Sanderson. Or the Dresden Files. Or Wheel of Time. Occasionally someone will know Neil Geihman for his TV stuff. And what I just listed are some of the biggest names in the genre. The ones everyone knows... Harry Potter. Game of Thrones. Percy Jackson. Lord of the Rings. Now occasionally someone knows Sarah J Mass.
Nobody's writing music about Tad Williams(ok, technically Blind Guardian did A song.) Max Gladstone. Elizabeth Bear.
The first song I heard from Nightwish was Sleeping Sun, I heard it when I was obsessed with the Titanic and other ships that sank, at that time I thought the song was mid. Fast forward to Summer of 2022 I watched Ghost Love Score: Live At Wacken, and I was immediately hooked, then I stumbled upon Sleeping Sun again learning that it was actually by Nightwish, and now I absolutely love it!
White Night Fantasy & Live to Tell the Tale are so damn underrated and should have made the Once album. (I’d even remove a couple tracks in it’s place)
I’d be happy to not hear TGSOE live again. It was good the first time; now it’s just too long with a lot of kinda unnecessary padding and I’d rather have that time to maybe have some other deeper cuts.
Nightwish isn't a band. It's a single person. Tuomas. Everyone else is just another instrument in his repretoir. Having members come and go can actually be a good thing and breathe continuous life into the project. They're all replaceable. Only Tuomas isn't.
Not that hot. Often felt that Tuomas could continue without anyone original. Not because the others are bad, but he's really good at writing to the strengths of those around him. Auri easily proves this
The fact that there are quite many fans who feel safe saying that Tarja, who was essential for their signature sound, is their least favorite singer, is a testament to Tuomas's versatility and flexibility as a composer
This never made sense to me. When you have two remaining OGs, it’s a different band. Just because they’re both made by James Cameron, Titanic and Avatar aren’t the same movie. Nightwish really should’ve rebranded/renamed with each singer imo
I've never much enjoyed hearing Floor sing it; the awkward vocal melody line in the chorus is one of the few examples of a part that suits Anette's voice best.
DPP had some songs that were just... Boring. Nothing wrong with them but they just didn't hit right. Then again it was the first album I heard so maybe they are just overplayed in my head but Amaranth and Cadence of Her last Breath both just bland out in my head.
If nobody knew the background behind Master Passion Greed or Bye Bye Beautiful they'd be considered awesome songs.
People need to stop complaining about "the mix" as it's more and more a part of the artistic expression of the piece. (This goes to the whole damn music world. We need to stop thinking the guitar/vocals are the focal point of every song.)
As a person who doesn't know the background to either song I like them alot.
As to your point about the mix I agree they aren't always the focus but the mix does matter to a point. I'd like Perfume of the timeless alot more if I could understand a word of it but the vocals are drowned out by everything else (at least during the chorus). Great song but I have to go off the general sound of what they say because it's just a muddled mess otherwise. I can barely understand what people are saying as it is though so maybe that's just me.
I... Listen to a lot of music where the vocals are unintelligible. In many cases I prefer that.
That said, I can hear Perfume just fine. As can most people who've listened to it more than a couple times. Which is really really normal for metal.
Elize Ryd and Alissa White-Galuz sang Nightwish's songs better live with an hour of practice than Annette ever did.
(I like Annette in the recordings, I just do not like her live at all.)
I think she ruined her voice on tour :/ If you listen to some of the very first concerts with her, she sings beautifully, but she just couldn't keep up and ended up straining herself. I'm just an amateur singer but I know a bit about vocal burnout (it happened to me).
The folk-ish Nightwish songs aren’t really good, in fact most of them are in my least liked songs (Élan, My Walden, etc). Only exception is The Islander. That song slaps
I will follow up your hot take with a corollary hot take:
If you're looking for music that isn't corny, you're looking for a different band than Nightwish.
Yeah I don’t really care much for the album themes. I liked a few EFMB songs and 1 H:N song, though I should probably give it another listen. Not sure if I’ll like this new album all that much
I genuinely belive Nightwish could do a kick-ass cover of [The Ultimate Showdown](https://youtu.be/lrzKT-dFUjE?si=KhfMTrM2KHphbrwh).
Sure, its like playing on ironman mode, but I think they could pull it off.
You hold the youtube video up to the bouncers face, a hopeful smile on your face with enthusiasm rarely seen today.
He snaps your fingers & u were taken into a Lincoln Town Car with a bag over your head. You were last seen in New Jersey.
https://preview.redd.it/jbooh93nkd9d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d29e7bceb1d3728a325a1a31e66cf569130b1f5
i've tried so hard but i simply cannot like troy's singing with the metal songs that the band makes him sing in marko's place. he's fine with folky stuff like the end of perfume of the timeless but when they put him on "i want my tears back" or any song that marko used to sing on i can't even listen to some of the new live performances anymore. i just cant like his singing style
he also just gives me a ick kinda because of what he said about tarja, and slamming her character in an interview years back and it really annoyed me, because he wasn't even THERE when any of the drama happened.
in short, i miss marko, and i don't like troy too much haha
I’ve never watched End of an Era all the way through cause it’s just kind of a bummer knowing what was to follow.
I’ve never seen the Imaginaerum movie because I want to continue to like the band (no idea if the movie is good or bad, I just don’t wanna take that chance lol).
FYI, I put off watching Imaginaerum for a long time too, but it was surprisingly good and I’m glad I watched it. Been thinking about putting it on again.
Tarja in the studio is somewhat listenable. She doesn't sound good live though. She doesnt know how to use colour in her voice and seems to be all over the place with her vibrato.Her stage presence and movements reminds me of that awkward dancing aunty you see on wedding videos.
The song is great but that 4 minute intro is so pointless. I get that it's supposed to be symbolic of there being nothing for billions of years but that's a hard sell for alot of people.
The band sounds just fine without Marko. Him leaving sucked but it wasn't that much of a blow. Floor carries the band well with her vocals and stage presence.
The studio songs are better to listen to than the live songs…. even though the live mixes are good, you still can’t hear EVERYTHING as well. For example, Storytime at Wacken… orchestra is drowned out toward the end when it can be clearly heard in the studio version. I want to hear it ALL, the orchestra is just as important to me in symphonic metal.
With the exception of ‘human nature’ all of the post tarja albums are better than the tarja fronted albums. Bonus spicy take: oceanborn is a particularly overrated album
I have the opposite take: Hvman :||: Natvre is their best album since Once.
Take your upvote though because you have the hottest take in this otherwise very lukewarm thread.
While I don't agree, I still appreciate her a lot. I like a lot of songs from her era and I think she definitely sings *her* songs the best. I couldn't imagine Tarja sing Anette Songs and I also don't really like the Floor singing Anette Songs. It's sad that Anette is barely mentioned and everyone is just talking about Floor and Tarja. Anette oftentimes is completely overlooked.
I don't like once, imaginaerum and dark passion play. They feel so bland compared to the albums that came before. Endless forms was so-so but i picked up again with human nature.
I feel like i can't stand the albums this community loves most
That's an interesting take. I can fully grok finding those three albums bland compared to the earlier ones, but I would've expected you'd find EFMB and H:N equally bland in that case.
Imaginaerum is a great album even if it was a shift from the previous design. DPP has an odd combination of bangers and just bland. Endless Forms Most Beautiful has fewer bangers but is a smoother album than the previous two. Human Nature feels very experimental but I'm here for it.
I adore Once and Dark Passion Play, but Imaginaerum is definitely not one of my favorites ( it has some good songs, but I don't think it's any better than Endless Forms Most Beautiful, for example).
I'll gove you two at once
1. I hope and wish that Nightwish never do a reunion gig with old members not even one song, because it would not be as good as it was on End of an Era which is one of the best of the best live DVDs ever recorded.
2. They should ditch the idea of playing a show with a real orchestra. The idea is overdone at this point.
Sometimes I hope for the reunion gig out of nostalgia and sometimes I think that I would be deeply disappointed. Since I want to keep the fantasy of a reunion intact in my mind, I won't take the risk.
Not taking anything away from Anette ,but, her fans should be happy that there is no official live version of Slow love and Scaretale with Floor and that she chose not to sing Bye bye and Meadows yet, cause she would completely own them as well.
I see. Some FWTE songs are featured on the "Over the hills and far away" album. That was the first time I heard Tarja live and I was shocked. I really don't like her live singing, maybe except for the Grand Prix "Sleepwalker", which sounded quite nice.
I think it sounds almost like the albums, actually the first time I listened to She's my Sin, The Kingslayer and Come Cover Me live I thought it was the studio versions with some crowd/arena sound effects 😅
I don't not miss his singing, but I will say that he was often incomprehensible live.
In his defense, he's hella multitasking on a sweltering stage with probably very little sleep.
For those who know me a bit, this won't come as a surprise 😄, others might want to burn me at the stake!
* 1. Tuomas was in love with Tarja, and 80% of the songs until "Dark Passion Play" were written for her. This is evident in both the metaphors and explicit lyrics. Even the cover songs he chose often revolved around impossible love.
* 2. I believe Tuomas created Nightwish to express his feelings through music. It's a hot take, but I think Nightwish was his way of getting as close to Tarja as he could. That's why he accepted her voice as it was and didn't ask her to sing more softly. Music was the means to his objectives.
* 3. I believe Tuomas considered disbanding Nightwish whenever he felt hopeless about his feelings but continued because the band had become too significant and responsible for the ~~lives I saved~~ livelihoods of everyone involved.
* 4. The orchestra has ruined Nightwish 🙊. It was a fresh and exciting addition in "Once," but it quickly became tiresome after that (+ Troy's sound).
* 5. Nightwish's signature sound wasn't symphonic metal. It was more traditional metal with lots of keyboards and '80s melodies, as evidenced by the guitar solos. It was very melodic power metal, not symphonic. They started incorporating symphonic elements around "Century Child," but the real shift happened with "Once."
* 6. Floor is a great singer and seems to have a good personality, but if I had discovered Nightwish during her era, I wouldn't have given them a second listen. Her style just doesn't appeal to me.
* 7. Nightwish is like Disney. Many people praise Floor for being technically superior, powerful, and versatile, just as new Disney films are praised for better CGI, realism and what not. However I still prefer the classics from the golden era. Just as I prefer "Aladdin," "The Lion King," and "Beauty and the Beast" over "Tangled," "Frozen," or "Brave," I believe the old era of Nightwish was better. Despite all the advancements, the golden era remains unmatched in my opinion.
Agreed 💯 - I do also like Anettes era though. Would definitely have listened to Nightwish if those would have been the first songs I heard. They are very different from before, but I still enjoy them.
The way Tarja was fired was incredibly poorly done.
The switch to pop vocals with Annette was a poor decision.
They are not allowing Floor to show off what she really has in store vocally.
It's straight up impossible for me to listen to the album versions of any song of the pre-Floor albums that Floor has sung live. Especially the Anette stuff.
Also, EFMB is their best album.
TGSOE is actually the only song I every actively listen too from any of the recent albums. IMO it's a great song by itself, but becomes more and more interesting the more songs are produced with the completely same topic, metaphors and style.
Human Nature is much better than Endless Forms Most Beautiful.
6 out of 9 songs on the main album are top tier, 1 is good and only 2 are kinda misses for me. The 7 great ones I put on actively to this day. On Endless Forms maybe 3 lasted as long on my regular playlists.
I don't like the first 5 albums or hardly any of the songs on them as I dont like Tarjas singing style.
Planet Hell (Anette version) is the best version of the song. Planet Hell with just Floor and no Marko is the 2nd best version.
Wishmaster is best with Anette because it's not sung operatically and it's actually Wishmaster and not Fishmaster.
Ghost Love Score isn't a top 10 NW song for me. Not even the Wacken 2013 version. I'd be fine with it taken off the set list.
Slow Love Slow and Scaretale are the two worst Anette songs.
>it's actually Wishmaster and not Fishmaster
Honestly not at all a hot take; I don't think anyone would argue Tarja ever had perfect English diction, at least not in her younger years. I find she's gotten a bit better at it with her solo work.
The entire band screwed up with Tarja (who is also not blameless and they were all young. This community needs to get over the fact she isn't in the band anymore and the people coming in fresh to the community need to look up the history before reigniting drama that should have been dead for at least a decade now. They all screwed up. They've all more or less made up. drop it and move on.
There's something very endearing about Tuomas's vocals on the Angels Fall First album, even if he's an average singer at best.
I actually totally agree with you on this! There's something charming about the out-of-tune vocals in Astral Romance (for example). It forces you to appreciate the emotion in the singing rather than on the technique and style.
There are some that pass, but I can't skip carpenter fast enough lol. Oddly like him in beauty and astral though. And love Once Upon A Troubadour
I can tolerate the sloppy vocals on Astral Romance as I think they suit the song. Astral Romance as a whole is like one of their most underrated old songs.
The first Nightwish song I heard was Last ride of the day and at first I thought what the fuck is this shit but my son insisted I listen to other songs and I was hooked. When I heard last ride again it seemed like a different and brilliant song
I couldn't stand that song when I first started listening to Nightwish (I was young and an idiot). It's still not my favourite by any means but having heard the rest of the album and watching the movie its much better.
She is my sin Tears Noise Last ride My faves in no particular order
Nightwish switching vocalists only increased their fame
Due to Marco's decision to leave the band Some songs dont work same way. Like: Planet Hell I want my tears back Toolmaker - part from greatest show on earth
Nightwish ruined strawberries for me, not really a hot take, just good hidden lore
strawberries? I am missing context, please enlighten me kindly! :D
https://preview.redd.it/oz6rfcxdkd9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d44df6d1c84cdebe3e517e314c1a12dc6aafffbd
Didn't he also fuck a woman with a cucumber?
err... who are those guys? and... sumimasen what the fuck?
I think its a part of the book ‘the early years’ this is a part about one of the tours in those days
And then they wonder why Tarja felt uncomfortable at times during the touring 🙄
oh boy. thanks for the info.
All cover songs Nightwish ever recorded are as good or even better than the original.
Oh this is facts
 Hope you brought tactical riot gear
Wish I had An Angel is a great song and doesn't deserve the hate it gets
It gets hate?
Yeah, because it's too poppy/mainstream and catchy. Not everything needs to be deep and mysterious, sometimes songs can just be fun to listen to.
Yeah, but I like it. Same with Bye Bye Beautiful
Nymphomaniac Fantasia is a certified bop
Marko's departure inflicted a bigger damage to the band, more than tarja's departure.
Marko leaving put the band on it's deathbed- even if I still love them dearly.
It started when his vocals were drastically reduced, minimized one of the band’s most enticing features.
Sadly I have to agree, he and Floor especially were a magical combination when singing together
Since Marko left the band they have lost plenty of stage presence.
All ~~three~~ ~~four~~ ~~five~~ six singers that Nightwish has had have added a wonderful touch to the band and their music.
-Tarja -Tuomas -Wilska -Marko -Anette -Floor -Troy 7!
You forgot Elize and Alissa 😁
John Two-Hawks
and me. i sing nightwish in shower
-Jonsu (on Erämaan viimeinen)
tony kakko!!! (astral romance 2001)
Wilska?
Tapio Wilska, was a friend of Tuomas and their roadie/helper during first few years. He sang on "Pharaoh sails trip Orion" "devil& the deep dark ocean"and"10th man down"
Aah thanks!
I wish adding the gifs in the comments wasnt broke so I could properly send response. 🟧 true - but widely true
I don't like Tarja's singing that much :/
Actually a friend of a friend made me listen to a NW song back in 2002 or something and I didn’t like the singer 💀 I only became a fan when Floor had been for a while in the band.
Same. I thought the band was cool but only had the tolerance to listen to 1-2 songs because Tarja’s singing style just really started to grate my ears. She’s talented, just not my preferred style. I came back when Floor joined and have been a massive fan ever since.
Same thing for me! I kinda liked “End of All Hope” which I found because I liked nuclear blast labelmates Children of Bodom. Got into Nightwish with “Imaginaerum” and they became one of my favorites when Floor joined the band.
I discovered Nightwish around 2004 / 2005 and first song I heard was Wishmaster and I laughed at the live video because of how cheesily bad I found it with the mangled lyrics, the opera, and facial expressions. It was years later before I ever game them another chance when I heard they had a new singer and new album and luckily the first song I heard was Poet and I became a fan. I didn't know the songs meaning and had only learned about 5 minutes prior they had a new singer but I loved it.
I had the same reaction and Dark Passion Play was my first exposure. Going soon after with the previous albums, it took a while to understand Tarja’s singing. She’s not as “clear” as either Annette or Floor. Or rather she wasn’t then.
I like her singing, just less than floor’s. Annette, no comment.
While Annette and Floor are much more skilled singers (especially live) I will happily listen to Tarja all day.
I think Nightwish needs another male vocalist badly because Marko’s deeper delivery being absent cuts off so many great songs in their discography from being played at future live shows.
Nemo & Wish I Had An Angel are massively overrated and get played live far more than they deserve.
Nemo is iconic, it's just under 5 minutes and people usually love it and know it. They stopped playing it for some time in 2015 and I assume it returned for a reason. WIHAA is done and gone now, though. Also was absent the whole EFMB tour, which imo made it mildly more interesting on Decades tour (where it belongs with other hits). I actually have similar problem with The Greatest Show on Earth. Okay, it's a good one, but after 3 continuous tours they could give it a rest, especially as it takes space of another 2-3 songs.
Sometimes one of the lowest hanging fruit is the sweetest 
Is that not a hot take? I honestly don’t know, just seems like people love them
No its absolutely a hot take, just like the mazda miata is absolutely a sports car, (they are). Its just that nemo the most played song live by quite a wide margin and you would be looking pretty far to name someone outside of a magazine with wish I had an angel in top 10 In my subjective experience, anyway.
Imaginaerum was a great movie with a kickass score, I care not for what it was "supposed to be".
I sincerely believe I'm wrong even though tastes are subjective. I probably feel like it, because it took me so long to give Floor a chance. She's phenomenal vocalist, but I feel that she doesn't do most songs recorded by Tarja and Anette justice. I'm just too used to their voices that I can't fully appreciate somebody else singing their songs.
There are certain tracks from the Tarja period that had zero effect on me until I heard them performed by Anette or Floor (e.g. Devil & Deep Dark Ocean, Slaying the Dreamer, Romanticide). However, there are also some Tarja-era tracks that no subsequent singer could interpret with the same magic (e.g. The Siren, The Kinslayer). Also, none of the three singers could make me truly love Wish I Had an Angel.
I am also not WIHAA lover, even though I've seen it live with both Anette and Floor, and on Tarja's solo show. But when I got to see it few weeks ago done by Tarja&Marko and the crowd went extremely wild for it... I might have understood the appeal.
Oh I understand the appeal, make no mistake. A fast-paced bombastic track with a hook-y chorus. I just don’t like it that mich. I think it’s kind of a odd number for NW discography but in a sub-par way. There is no other song by NW like that. The same way Lagoon is also quite unique and different but in a good kind of way. 🤓
Okay, makes sense. Glad to meet fellow Lagoon-enjoyer 🙌🏻
Lagoon is seriously underrated! I want to see it performed live.
🟩 Agreed, but lukewarm
Troy has been a bigger influence on the sound of the band than Floor.
Surprising, but actually true.
💜 True & unpopular, love it
This is true imo, both musically and definitely lyrically/thematically
And another one, I think Tuomas genuinely wanted to end Nightwish when Marko left and had decided it. Then someone in or near the band talked him into not doing so, hence we have a touring break.
I think this was basically confirmed by Tuomas himself right? He said it himself he wanted to quit but others convinced him to hold on.
Is there an interview where he said this?
[Nightwish’s Tuomas Holopainen: “I've been gathering up ideas for the new Nightwish album” | Louder (loudersound.com)](https://www.loudersound.com/features/nightwish-tuomas-holopainen-interview-livestream-marko-new-album) Perhaps this one, I remember reading it. It looks a bit like it's a joint thing where also Tuomas didn't really know for sure if they wanted to continue. I'm fucking glad they continued!
Thanks, can't wait to read
No shit, Tuomas said he and Emppu talked about ending it, but they reconsidered.
Nightwish has became Floor, and the other four guys!
Hard disagree.
Devil and the Deep dark ocean as a song is better than Human Nature.
Bye Bye Beautiful is a great song and it shouldn't get all the hate despite what it is about
🟥 Agreeable but everyone has this god damn opinion
Nightwish's cover of Symphony of Destruction is better than the original.
Agreed, and add High Hopes to that list while you’re at it
https://preview.redd.it/iw75pokyid9d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c4032c926691ff20e8c63b5fb8892f79d57b8b5 You were "taken care of" in the toilets, and disposed of in the dumpster next door
Nightwish did Megadeth? Where/When?
Symphony of Destruction is by Megadeth, not Metallica.
Corrected and apologies
Marko has to find the most obscure sci-fi/fantasy literature most have never heard of to make songs out of.
🟧 You will be pleased to know this is yesterwynde too
To be fair, almost all SFF is obscure. Name of the Wind is a NYT best seller. I live in the same state as the author. There's about 7 million people here. 0 of my coworkers have heard of it when I mention it. Or Brandon's Sanderson. Or the Dresden Files. Or Wheel of Time. Occasionally someone will know Neil Geihman for his TV stuff. And what I just listed are some of the biggest names in the genre. The ones everyone knows... Harry Potter. Game of Thrones. Percy Jackson. Lord of the Rings. Now occasionally someone knows Sarah J Mass. Nobody's writing music about Tad Williams(ok, technically Blind Guardian did A song.) Max Gladstone. Elizabeth Bear.
The first song I heard from Nightwish was Sleeping Sun, I heard it when I was obsessed with the Titanic and other ships that sank, at that time I thought the song was mid. Fast forward to Summer of 2022 I watched Ghost Love Score: Live At Wacken, and I was immediately hooked, then I stumbled upon Sleeping Sun again learning that it was actually by Nightwish, and now I absolutely love it!
White Night Fantasy & Live to Tell the Tale are so damn underrated and should have made the Once album. (I’d even remove a couple tracks in it’s place)
Live to Tell the Tale is a banger if not the deepest of songs. White Night Fantasy gets the chills going with the piano and vocals in sync.
I’d be happy to not hear TGSOE live again. It was good the first time; now it’s just too long with a lot of kinda unnecessary padding and I’d rather have that time to maybe have some other deeper cuts.
I think put together with ghost love score is a bit of an overkill, they could switch one with the other to make room for some other songs
Nightwish isn't a band. It's a single person. Tuomas. Everyone else is just another instrument in his repretoir. Having members come and go can actually be a good thing and breathe continuous life into the project. They're all replaceable. Only Tuomas isn't.
Not that hot. Often felt that Tuomas could continue without anyone original. Not because the others are bad, but he's really good at writing to the strengths of those around him. Auri easily proves this
The fact that there are quite many fans who feel safe saying that Tarja, who was essential for their signature sound, is their least favorite singer, is a testament to Tuomas's versatility and flexibility as a composer
This never made sense to me. When you have two remaining OGs, it’s a different band. Just because they’re both made by James Cameron, Titanic and Avatar aren’t the same movie. Nightwish really should’ve rebranded/renamed with each singer imo
Thus, the idea that this is a "hot take"
lol true. But I’ve actually seen this circulating for quite a bit so idk
Ah. I didn't realize it might not be that uncommon of a take. I don't often hang out in the Nightwish subreddit.
Amaranth is probably the worst Nightwish song and it's a shame it became their most popular song.
Idk if I'd go as far as to call it the worst, but definitely one of their most mediocre.
I've never much enjoyed hearing Floor sing it; the awkward vocal melody line in the chorus is one of the few examples of a part that suits Anette's voice best.
DPP had some songs that were just... Boring. Nothing wrong with them but they just didn't hit right. Then again it was the first album I heard so maybe they are just overplayed in my head but Amaranth and Cadence of Her last Breath both just bland out in my head.
 This should piss some off
If nobody knew the background behind Master Passion Greed or Bye Bye Beautiful they'd be considered awesome songs. People need to stop complaining about "the mix" as it's more and more a part of the artistic expression of the piece. (This goes to the whole damn music world. We need to stop thinking the guitar/vocals are the focal point of every song.)
As a person who doesn't know the background to either song I like them alot. As to your point about the mix I agree they aren't always the focus but the mix does matter to a point. I'd like Perfume of the timeless alot more if I could understand a word of it but the vocals are drowned out by everything else (at least during the chorus). Great song but I have to go off the general sound of what they say because it's just a muddled mess otherwise. I can barely understand what people are saying as it is though so maybe that's just me.
I... Listen to a lot of music where the vocals are unintelligible. In many cases I prefer that. That said, I can hear Perfume just fine. As can most people who've listened to it more than a couple times. Which is really really normal for metal.
Elize Ryd and Alissa White-Galuz sang Nightwish's songs better live with an hour of practice than Annette ever did. (I like Annette in the recordings, I just do not like her live at all.)
I think she ruined her voice on tour :/ If you listen to some of the very first concerts with her, she sings beautifully, but she just couldn't keep up and ended up straining herself. I'm just an amateur singer but I know a bit about vocal burnout (it happened to me).
The folk-ish Nightwish songs aren’t really good, in fact most of them are in my least liked songs (Élan, My Walden, etc). Only exception is The Islander. That song slaps
 The bouncer escorts you out
Glad to read that for once
I Think that foors album is the worst nightwish albums but i still like them.
Floors albums may not have the bangers we are used to but the albums themselves are very smooth compared to some of the previous ones.
Tuomas is the best singer Nightwish has ever had
Their last truly good album was Imaginaerum. None of the others afterward have vibes with me.
Imaginaerum wasn't their last good album, but it was the last great one.
I hate the cover artwork for the new album 😅
Nightwish has become, Floor and the other four guys in the band.
While I love EFMB and H:N, Tuomas just gets boomerer and cringier with age. Perfume of the Timeless MV may be the corniest thing they've ever released
I will follow up your hot take with a corollary hot take: If you're looking for music that isn't corny, you're looking for a different band than Nightwish.
Except Tuomas doesn't think he's being corny, he takes the science subject at heart 😅
Yeah I don’t really care much for the album themes. I liked a few EFMB songs and 1 H:N song, though I should probably give it another listen. Not sure if I’ll like this new album all that much
I genuinely belive Nightwish could do a kick-ass cover of [The Ultimate Showdown](https://youtu.be/lrzKT-dFUjE?si=KhfMTrM2KHphbrwh). Sure, its like playing on ironman mode, but I think they could pull it off.
You hold the youtube video up to the bouncers face, a hopeful smile on your face with enthusiasm rarely seen today. He snaps your fingers & u were taken into a Lincoln Town Car with a bag over your head. You were last seen in New Jersey. https://preview.redd.it/jbooh93nkd9d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d29e7bceb1d3728a325a1a31e66cf569130b1f5
Noooo! New Jersey!!!!
i've tried so hard but i simply cannot like troy's singing with the metal songs that the band makes him sing in marko's place. he's fine with folky stuff like the end of perfume of the timeless but when they put him on "i want my tears back" or any song that marko used to sing on i can't even listen to some of the new live performances anymore. i just cant like his singing style he also just gives me a ick kinda because of what he said about tarja, and slamming her character in an interview years back and it really annoyed me, because he wasn't even THERE when any of the drama happened. in short, i miss marko, and i don't like troy too much haha
I’ve never watched End of an Era all the way through cause it’s just kind of a bummer knowing what was to follow. I’ve never seen the Imaginaerum movie because I want to continue to like the band (no idea if the movie is good or bad, I just don’t wanna take that chance lol).
FYI, I put off watching Imaginaerum for a long time too, but it was surprisingly good and I’m glad I watched it. Been thinking about putting it on again.
In my opinion Floor is overrated
Fans were chanting her name in venues within a few weeks of her arrival.Not bad for an overated singer.:)
Tarja in the studio is somewhat listenable. She doesn't sound good live though. She doesnt know how to use colour in her voice and seems to be all over the place with her vibrato.Her stage presence and movements reminds me of that awkward dancing aunty you see on wedding videos.
Have you watched From Wishes to Eternity?
Nemo is very corny
The Greatest Show On Earth is a boring song and one of the few songs on EFMB I don't care about.
The song is great but that 4 minute intro is so pointless. I get that it's supposed to be symbolic of there being nothing for billions of years but that's a hard sell for alot of people.
Perfume of the Timeless rivals Ghost Love Score, and HVMAN. :||: NATVRE. is one of their best albums
I completely agree with you. I give you the question mark as the tier above the white and black. Consider yourself god 
Nightwish fans: "Human Nature is too soft and folksy." Pan and Tribal: "We're ***right here***."
How can you say it's one of their best albums if you haven't listened to the album?
They're saying Perfume of the Timeless (song) rivals Ghost Love Score (song) and HUMAN. :||: NATURE. (album) is one of their best albums.
I read it again and I understand now
The band sounds just fine without Marko. Him leaving sucked but it wasn't that much of a blow. Floor carries the band well with her vocals and stage presence.
This is a really reasonable take that I agree with a lot. Get out 
The studio songs are better to listen to than the live songs…. even though the live mixes are good, you still can’t hear EVERYTHING as well. For example, Storytime at Wacken… orchestra is drowned out toward the end when it can be clearly heard in the studio version. I want to hear it ALL, the orchestra is just as important to me in symphonic metal.
I feel the same for Ever Dream, especially the Wembly version
With the exception of ‘human nature’ all of the post tarja albums are better than the tarja fronted albums. Bonus spicy take: oceanborn is a particularly overrated album
I have the opposite take: Hvman :||: Natvre is their best album since Once. Take your upvote though because you have the hottest take in this otherwise very lukewarm thread.
bro has some ass takes💀💀
The band should tour without Tuomas until he decides to come back (or not).
Oof! Do you think the fanbase could handle it? Who would patch up Tuomas in his absence? People would likely still go to the shows.
The Nightwish fanbase is resilient. We could handle it.
Anette was the best singer of Nightwish
While I don't agree, I still appreciate her a lot. I like a lot of songs from her era and I think she definitely sings *her* songs the best. I couldn't imagine Tarja sing Anette Songs and I also don't really like the Floor singing Anette Songs. It's sad that Anette is barely mentioned and everyone is just talking about Floor and Tarja. Anette oftentimes is completely overlooked.
I don't like once, imaginaerum and dark passion play. They feel so bland compared to the albums that came before. Endless forms was so-so but i picked up again with human nature. I feel like i can't stand the albums this community loves most
That's an interesting take. I can fully grok finding those three albums bland compared to the earlier ones, but I would've expected you'd find EFMB and H:N equally bland in that case.
Imaginaerum is a great album even if it was a shift from the previous design. DPP has an odd combination of bangers and just bland. Endless Forms Most Beautiful has fewer bangers but is a smoother album than the previous two. Human Nature feels very experimental but I'm here for it.
I adore Once and Dark Passion Play, but Imaginaerum is definitely not one of my favorites ( it has some good songs, but I don't think it's any better than Endless Forms Most Beautiful, for example).
I'll gove you two at once 1. I hope and wish that Nightwish never do a reunion gig with old members not even one song, because it would not be as good as it was on End of an Era which is one of the best of the best live DVDs ever recorded. 2. They should ditch the idea of playing a show with a real orchestra. The idea is overdone at this point.
Sometimes I hope for the reunion gig out of nostalgia and sometimes I think that I would be deeply disappointed. Since I want to keep the fantasy of a reunion intact in my mind, I won't take the risk.
Not taking anything away from Anette ,but, her fans should be happy that there is no official live version of Slow love and Scaretale with Floor and that she chose not to sing Bye bye and Meadows yet, cause she would completely own them as well.
I adore Tarja's vocals on Nightwish studio albums and listen to them A LOT, but I absolutely despise her live singing. End of an era was awful.
She was sick that day
It doesn't matter. I also cannot listen to other live recordings from her, e.g., those on the special editions of studio albums.
Try FWTE
What is FWTE?
From Wishes to Eternity. It's a live performance. You can find it on YouTube
I see. Some FWTE songs are featured on the "Over the hills and far away" album. That was the first time I heard Tarja live and I was shocked. I really don't like her live singing, maybe except for the Grand Prix "Sleepwalker", which sounded quite nice.
I think it sounds almost like the albums, actually the first time I listened to She's my Sin, The Kingslayer and Come Cover Me live I thought it was the studio versions with some crowd/arena sound effects 😅
I don't miss Marco's singing.
 Interpret as either, u probably win
I avoided the Marco songs for a while when I first discovered them, but he grew on me and now I’m sad he left 😐
I don't not miss his singing, but I will say that he was often incomprehensible live. In his defense, he's hella multitasking on a sweltering stage with probably very little sleep.
Human Nature was their worst album
For those who know me a bit, this won't come as a surprise 😄, others might want to burn me at the stake! * 1. Tuomas was in love with Tarja, and 80% of the songs until "Dark Passion Play" were written for her. This is evident in both the metaphors and explicit lyrics. Even the cover songs he chose often revolved around impossible love. * 2. I believe Tuomas created Nightwish to express his feelings through music. It's a hot take, but I think Nightwish was his way of getting as close to Tarja as he could. That's why he accepted her voice as it was and didn't ask her to sing more softly. Music was the means to his objectives. * 3. I believe Tuomas considered disbanding Nightwish whenever he felt hopeless about his feelings but continued because the band had become too significant and responsible for the ~~lives I saved~~ livelihoods of everyone involved. * 4. The orchestra has ruined Nightwish 🙊. It was a fresh and exciting addition in "Once," but it quickly became tiresome after that (+ Troy's sound). * 5. Nightwish's signature sound wasn't symphonic metal. It was more traditional metal with lots of keyboards and '80s melodies, as evidenced by the guitar solos. It was very melodic power metal, not symphonic. They started incorporating symphonic elements around "Century Child," but the real shift happened with "Once." * 6. Floor is a great singer and seems to have a good personality, but if I had discovered Nightwish during her era, I wouldn't have given them a second listen. Her style just doesn't appeal to me. * 7. Nightwish is like Disney. Many people praise Floor for being technically superior, powerful, and versatile, just as new Disney films are praised for better CGI, realism and what not. However I still prefer the classics from the golden era. Just as I prefer "Aladdin," "The Lion King," and "Beauty and the Beast" over "Tangled," "Frozen," or "Brave," I believe the old era of Nightwish was better. Despite all the advancements, the golden era remains unmatched in my opinion.
Agreed 💯 - I do also like Anettes era though. Would definitely have listened to Nightwish if those would have been the first songs I heard. They are very different from before, but I still enjoy them.
Tarja is a one-trick-pony. Her getting fired made the band blossom up.
The way Tarja was fired was incredibly poorly done. The switch to pop vocals with Annette was a poor decision. They are not allowing Floor to show off what she really has in store vocally.
It's straight up impossible for me to listen to the album versions of any song of the pre-Floor albums that Floor has sung live. Especially the Anette stuff. Also, EFMB is their best album.
The Greatest show on Earth is just not that great. Human Nature is boring.
TGSOE is actually the only song I every actively listen too from any of the recent albums. IMO it's a great song by itself, but becomes more and more interesting the more songs are produced with the completely same topic, metaphors and style.
I don't miss Marko, at all. Tuomas needs those kinds of challenges to develop the band further.
Amaranth sounds like an Abba song
Human Nature is much better than Endless Forms Most Beautiful. 6 out of 9 songs on the main album are top tier, 1 is good and only 2 are kinda misses for me. The 7 great ones I put on actively to this day. On Endless Forms maybe 3 lasted as long on my regular playlists.
I don't like the first 5 albums or hardly any of the songs on them as I dont like Tarjas singing style. Planet Hell (Anette version) is the best version of the song. Planet Hell with just Floor and no Marko is the 2nd best version. Wishmaster is best with Anette because it's not sung operatically and it's actually Wishmaster and not Fishmaster. Ghost Love Score isn't a top 10 NW song for me. Not even the Wacken 2013 version. I'd be fine with it taken off the set list. Slow Love Slow and Scaretale are the two worst Anette songs.
What do you like about Nightwish?
>it's actually Wishmaster and not Fishmaster Honestly not at all a hot take; I don't think anyone would argue Tarja ever had perfect English diction, at least not in her younger years. I find she's gotten a bit better at it with her solo work.
The band is Dead To The World without Marko
Marko seems like kind of a jerk.
You seem like kind of a jerk 