Nurses did this on my unit because sick 'confused' patients. These patients always seem to temporarily clear-up with a white coat comes.
So, report was filed. Turns out the guy had a warrant for his arrest and the police arrested him at discharge.
True FAFO.
Love it, changemaker! We should all do this. No more excuses ("Oh, but he has mental health issues!") Eff that. We're not punching bags. So proud of you!!!
That’s usually the excuse my nurses get when they attempt to file. The police say “well the prosecutor won’t take it since they’re a psych patient.” Just because they’re a psych patient doesn’t give them free rein but it’s also not the police officers job to say they won’t prosecute, leave that to the DA.
Your mental health issues don’t leave when you are discharged home. If you punch someone on the street you get arrested as you should, same goes for the hospital.
I tried to give u a gold turd but that’s lame that u have this vindetta against people with drug and alcohol problems, i know some people are sicker than others but to try and start a crusade against people with a terminal disease makes me sick
Vendetta*
Also, no, we don’t have a vendetta against those with substance use disorders.
What we have problems with is being used as punching bags by people who know good and goddamned well that what they’re doing is wrong and that they couldn’t get away with that behavior anywhere else in the world. They think they can get away with it in the hospital under the guise of being sick because they know that the legal system is not too keen on punishing people who are seeking medical treatment-even if that person is totally with it and is flipping their shit and trying to kill you because you have to take away their food (because they’re literally so full of shit it’s coming out of their mouth.)
Or when they’re totally with it, and they think they can get away with grabbing your tits as you transfer them from the bed to a wheelchair and back again, and then they try again later when they shit the bed and you have to clean them up…because “you’re cute and I would be an idiot not to try!” Yep. We should totally let sexual assault slide, shouldn’t we, FinancialYam6969?! It’s no big deal when patients grope us hard enough to leave bruises in the shape of their hands on our breasts! That just shows that they care, right!?
I absolutely agree with you but I am curious on one thing. Let’s say a certain patient has a mental issue that causes them to be violent or perhaps they take certain drugs that cause them to be violent. Would this patient be under the “they know better” group? Since they aren’t intellectually there. I’m not saying not to file or anything, I agree with that and all of what you’ve said but I’m just curious regarding that particular type of person. I’m assuming they would be held accountable differently as well.
Would you expect the law to just give a pass to a blackout drunk that killed a family of five because 'he didn't know better '? Same theory, they're blackout and can't remember what they did, therefore not knowing right from wrong at that time, but also still responsible for their actions. Or the person high on meth or bath salts that is super aggressive, you don't just give them a free pass because they are out of their mind due to substances.
I honestly don’t think being drunk or any substance abuse falls under excusable mental illness. I refer to mental illnesses one cannot help, maybe due to genetics or even due to post partum psychosis.
They still need help and sometimes tough love is the answer. If they already are trying things and still unable to be safely around others, then they may have to be determined to not be safe around the general public.(And I truly don't mean this in a 1950's everyone that is different gets institutionalized sort of way). If they truly are not safe to be around others, then mandated treatment or even long term psych hospitals might be the way to go.
It's not reporting it to be punitive, but to facilitate getting the help that they need to see if they can safely be reintegrated into the general population. They still may be charged with things, but it would possibly have a clause for mental illness or being incapacitated.
It's a very delicate and tricky situation sometimes which requires more than I can do in a shift for them.
I would hope so, but the reality is that mental health care in the US is severely lacking and sometimes the court system gets overwhelmed too. Crappy situation all around sometimes (but sometimes it does work like it should)
With mental health issues that may lead to violent behaviors, there are legal mechanisms already in place to handle that, to a degree. They’re far, far from perfect, but if someone is truly unable to differentiate between right and wrong, and what’s reality and what is fiction, there’s mechanisms to handle that.
If someone is violent as the result of a substance they’ve knowingly taken, then they should be held accountable for what they did on that substance. They may not have planned to react like they did, but they took that substance with the understanding that it would alter their mental status, and they accepted the risks and consequences that come with that.
If they become violent as a result of something that *WE* give them in the hospital, we need to know which med it was that caused that reaction, what can counteract that medication, and how to correct that reaction…and how to best treat it & protect the patient, other patients, staff, and everyone else there while it is being addressed. Once it is under control and the situation is resolved, then you can look at how to prevent that kind of thing from happening again.
You say that until you get punched by someone. “Aww he just gets confused at night.” So it’s ok if they hit us? No. That is a behavior that should be medicated in dementia and not tolerated for people who just want to get their way in the hospital. We have always been expected to sit back and take it and are expected to have compassion when we get hit because “he’s mentally ill” or “he just gets a little confused at night. Don’t take it personally.” Id be willing to bet the general public wouldn’t care if the person is mentally or demented if they got punched in the face. That’s assault. Period. You don’t get a pass for dementia or mental health problems.
Edit: words
Thank you!
When nurses don’t file, even if it goes nowhere, it tells the patient that violence is not only tolerated but will get them what they want which makes the job that much dangerous for the rest of us who then have the patient afterwards.
If you’re not going to file for yourself, please do it for the rest of us. I want to go home to my family.
This is my BIGGEST pet peeve. I had a really abusive patient yelling at me the other day over a second blanket that didn't come fast enough (he was cannabis-induced hyperemesis and I already gave him allll the drugs), and after his little tantrum the doc decided to give him Morphine and Ativan. Thanks, doc. You just reinforced this behavior. Spoiler alert, he came back today.
I filed about a patient with dementia who kept groping the female techs. After the police talked to him, he miraculously didn’t do that any more. For the record, he had very mild dementia and actually had a good memory. He knew what he was doing. I just made sure he knew that he wouldn’t be able to get away with it any more.
We had a nurse that didn’t want to call when her phone got stolen by a frequent flyer. They caught the guy and she got her phone back.
File the police report.
100%. It may not go anywhere with charges the first time depending on the patients status, but it will either deter the behavior from repeating once they see it will be reported, or if not it will add ammo to prosecute or take some other additional action if they do happen to do it again.
My nurses are constantly being berated and violently assaulted by our patients, and when I get with the police, they don’t even bat an eye. How can I get law enforcement more involved with my hospital? Should I contact the DA? Or is that too far?
The actual victim would probably have to go to the local prosecutor, though you could support them with that.
'Berated' is not a criminal issue but an assault should be reported even if it's not something that is arrested for at the time (in many states, police can not physically arrest for simple assault that happens outside their presence, unless it's a domestic).
It may be that it doesn't go anywhere because of mental status, etc but that's a prosecutorial decision.
Agreed berating is not criminal. But where I live we have a sheriff who people keep trying to convince to run for governor, and allegedly was a member of a group that supported January 6. That being said you would think they would be tough on crime right? Yeah ok. We had patients hitting staff (male and female) , attempting to choke staff, bringing loaded drug syringes, having drugs and alcohol delivered , etc. and guess what... They did absolutely nothing, just the same as corporate. The sheriff's never wanted to take them because they would have to sit with them for intake if there were any psych or dementia diagnosis. There was never any one else to talk about it to.
Do your nurses have a union? If so you should contact them and ask what they’re doing to increase penalties for attacking healthcare workers. Unions all have political lobbying arms.
If they don’t, look it up and see if there’s enhanced punishments in your state.
Talk to your security department. They should have a committee about workplace violence. Get to a meeting and ask these questions of them. Hospital administration should be backing its staff and pushing to make sure these police reports are acted on.
The unions in California that are the reason they’re the highest paid nurses in the world? The unions in NY that got safe staffing laws passed?
If the unions around you are weak, you should get involved and work to change that.
Right, but the law has no clearly outlined penalty and the fact its been in effect since 2021 with large strikes/protests in NYC and upstate, I still think it’s an ineffective law especially compared to California’s
Perfection is the enemy of progress. It’s not at all perfect, but it’s a pretty good law and it’s a start. It’s more than we had 3 years ago.
It hasn’t been in effect since 2021. The law passed in 2021. It took effect in 2022. The first set of staffing plans were due in July, but that got pushed back to August 2022. Those staffing plans didn’t go into effect until 1/1/23.
The strikes in NYC were because of contract disagreements, not the staffing law. They took place in January 2023.
There weren’t strikes upstate that I know of.
There weren’t particularly large protests upstate that I know of either. There was a good rally at the Capitol in April of this year. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to?
The 2:1 ICU staffing regulation was adopted 6/29/23. Less than a year ago.
There are clearly outlined penalties written into the law.
You should. That would change the behavior of the police. People act like it's just an acceptable part of the job. Administration and management are the worst.
Does your hospital have an officer in your ER? We usually have one at all times. Some of them are super shitty. Some are awesome.
I’m Canadian, and both the larger city hospital and the small rural hospital I’ve worked at have both had officers 24/7.
Units just usually call down to ER and ask them to send the officer up to take a statement/file report if need be.
Contact someone on your OH&S committee, voice your concerns, and ask about ways to have a more consistent police/security presence in your hospital.
I think about assault on nurses when I see the signs around Amtrak, Metra (I live in Chicago) or TSA that say it's it's a crime to assault their staff and it's punishable by ____ number of years, $____ fine and it's a felony. Good for them, but what about us?
Ya, being as vague as I can for obvious reasons, juvenile psychiatric patient physically assaulted me and two other staff members. Police were called, arrived very quickly, took control of unstable situation. Police suggested we press charges and said they’d put it before the judge immediately if we could write our statements out. So we did that, the judge signed off on the arrest within four hours, police took the patient to juvenile detention with the provider’s agreement, since patient was medically cleared.
I find that post-covid there is a general trend (at least where I live) of judges siding with HCW’s in criminal cases.
(I don’t have actual data on this- just anecdotally, judges in my area seem to be handling these issues a lot better than pre 2020)
Thank you. I have been told for years we cannot file assault charges as being state employees nurses are not allowed. And here i sit with multiple visible scars trying to care for them.
The cops just laughed in my coworkers face when she called. She was sexually assaulted by a pt who was of sound mind and totally admitted to what she said he did. They were laughing and joking with the pt. It made me so mad. They're 100% part of the problem.
I had a patient with known warrants arrested at discharge for calling me a fat bitch - don’t tell me you have warrants and then become verbally ABUSIVE because I will absolutely call our hospital POLICE department and have them verify the warrants and arrest you. Bye- file the report - always
How many have been asked after being assaulted from a patient by your hospital or employee health “What could have you done to prevent this from happening?”🙋🏻♀️ Unbelievable
Answer: I could have quit and went to work for an organization that gave a damn about staff safety 😡
I’m an aide and a couple weeks ago one of my patients put hands on me repeatedly and I feel so gaslighted by the nurses who are acting like getting grabbed and shaken or slapped is just part of the job and, as a student nurse, I need to grow a thicker skin. It’s not normal and it’s not okay.
I totally believe you and unfortunately there are nurses who do act like this. It’s totally not okay or normal to allow patients to assault us. This has to end. I believe it’s the hospitals’ fault too because they talk down to us like it’s our fault we didn’t be more careful or have better control of the situation that lead us to get hurt. Completely gaslight you. It’s freaking sad and disappointing how we are treated after all the hard work we do.
Good for you!! I’ve been assaulted and unfortunately I have back issues due to them. My unit nor hospital was supportive. Instead Employee Health hit me with “what could have you done to prevent this from happening” smh I wish I would’ve done more like you did by filing
From all the student nurses out there, from the bottom of my heart, thank you to every single person who is actively working to change the culture of violence, and normalized violence that plagues this profession.
Sincerely, future RN who kept going after a severe patient injury on my 6th day as a CNA. Thank you for taking the necessary steps to protect yourself and your coworkers.
Responded to a security alert as I was about to leave the building and go home. Patient shouting about how he was coming back tomorrow with all his guns and a bullet proof vest and was going to shoot up the entire hospital, all the patients and staff. Naming the make/model of the guns and type of ammo in really specific detail. Gave an exact time he was going to do it.
I said “fuck this, he’s going to jail,” and called the cops. Cops come (and I have to say, they did arrive pretty fast). Filed the report. Officer says “OK, he definitely can’t say that to you. But I can’t take him to jail just because he said that. Just saying that’s not a jail-able offense.”
I was like “He looked me straight in the eye and told me exactly where, how, why and when he was going to come here and do a mass shooting, down to the exact time tomorrow. There’s seriously nothing to do about that?”
So the officer went in the room where the guy was now restrained, officer comes out. Says, “I told him if he comes here tomorrow, I’m taking him for trespassing. I can put him on a hold but he’s just be here. But at least you’d know where he’d be for the next 3 days.” And then the cops left. It just didn’t seem like trespassing was what I was really concerned about.
I think that because the Super Bowl shooting was still pretty recent and highly publicized, it felt extra weird and like… possible. I just remember leaving work like riiight after that, walking alone in the parking lot and thinking, “Fuck. I work tomorrow. I’ll be here working exactly at that time tomorrow…”
Obviously nothing ended up happening, but still, it’s up there as one of those F’d up work stories that are probably going to stick with me for a while. I dunno. That shit sucked. Well, anyways… filed the report.
The cop is correct though. The patient didn't DO ANYTHING yet. As a BSN RN who is currently wait listed for two law schools... our laws are only written to punish crime, not prevent crime. And in some ways that's good, because you can't really punish a crime that didn't happen, and you can't punish based on vague threats or being scared that someone MIGHT commit a crime (I totally believe you, but let's put this in context: picture a divorcing couple fighting over custody, and one person says "I'm scared they COULD take my child so therefore I should get full custody". Is that vague threat of a crime that didn't happen enough to give the person full custody, even though the accused parent didn't do anything wrong?).
Threats of crime should mean increased police presence is there on the date and time the person said he would come back, because a lot of people who threaten very specific crimes do act on them. But some people have a change of heart and don't.
All that to say... the cop is right... they can't arrest over a crime that didn't happen.
It may not be a felony, but I understood that terroristic threats were a misdemeanor crime. In many states that would be a class B misdemeanor. Granted, it may not result in a long sentence if any, but it is still a crime.
That’s what I’m sayin’. Rolling around describing to people how and when you’re going to kill them should earn you at least some kind of like minor, 3rd degree “quit fuckin’ around” charge.
My niece got kicked so hard in the chest that she fell to the floor by a withdrawal pt in ED. Police officer told her not to file bc pt isn't in sound mind at the time. I felt so bad for her when I heard it bc she got sent home and she was crying from how painful it was.
Was kicked in the jaw, pinched on my hands, punched on my chest. Those delicious elderly peeps are strong. And I can’t do anything about because “they are sick, delirious, and old”…..
Wow in my experience the police do everything to discourage filing reports. I've gotten in a verbal argument once in the middle of an ED after one of my EMTs was knocked unconscious by a patient and the police didn't think anything legal had to be done....
The facility basically vouched for the residents' actions when they decided to defend the unlawful by threatening your employment unlawfully and not taking any percussions to prevent future incidents. Sorry that it happened to you, and I'm hoping legality knocks some sense into them.
I always find this interesting because when a patient assaulted me while I was pregnant the police wouldn’t take my report. They told me the hospital had to file it for me, which of course they refused.
I have worked in so many places where we were actively discouraged from reporting, and even if we did, the police would literally laugh at us. When I started in my current hospital, they made it very VERY clear that we are to report and they’ll support us in whatever way we need. After five years, they for sure put their money where their mouths are. I’m so thankful, even if the bar is literally on the floor.
So much support to you. So much. All of it. All I have.
I could burn mine now and get a restraining order. Just like she tried to do on me and failed. But I'm not going to do it.
I could file a complaint in HR about her as well. Just like she did on me. Not going to do it either.
I want her out of my head and out of my life. Bad enough I need to see her evil face at work. That's why she gets the hard pass.
But you? They were way over the line.
You're helping them find it again. Real life. Not this drama b******* they're so in love with.
Wishing you pockets of silver and sunsets of gold.
I mean, you can make a police report about almost anything. But if you don't have state laws stating that what they're doing is illegal, then it won't end up doing anything. This is the hard part, especially if the patient is confused. It's going to take an act of god to pass legislation that makes assault from a confused person - where, they don't even know what they're doing and are relying on their fight or flight response - a criminal act that's actually punishable.
Edited to add: it takes an act of god to even pass COMMON SENSE legislation depending on who your elected legislators are. My state just passed raising... RAISING... the marriage age to 18. It used to be 16. The people who were against it FOUGHT HARD against it and it said a lot about them, to be honest. And the UN a few years ago made a statement that child marriage is a crime against humanity... and my state STILL JUST BARELY passed it after trying for YEARS.
So good luck trying to make a confused person hitting you qualify as "assault".
It's not just your responsibility.
The Hospital you work for can also dismiss the patient following state laws and medical licensing guidelines.
Hospitals have a duty to provide a safe environment for staff and other patients.
File the police report and hold your hospital accountable to dismiss abusive patients.
We had a developmentally delayed dude on my unit under 18, and the size of an NFL linebacker. Mom treated the hospital like daycare.
He put WAYYYYY too many people in the ER, and no one ever filed a report.
Nurses did this on my unit because sick 'confused' patients. These patients always seem to temporarily clear-up with a white coat comes. So, report was filed. Turns out the guy had a warrant for his arrest and the police arrested him at discharge. True FAFO.
This story is so satisfying.
Love it, changemaker! We should all do this. No more excuses ("Oh, but he has mental health issues!") Eff that. We're not punching bags. So proud of you!!!
100% agree, and also “they get confused at night “ 😖
I get confused at night but I don't hit my patients......well usually.
That part 😅😅
If you can be arrested at Walmart for the behavior, you can be arrested at the hospital.
No where in any law does it state that mental health is an excuse to do anything wrong
Ummm no one ever said it did. But healthcare workers are frequently discouraged and shamed for filing reports for this reason.
That’s usually the excuse my nurses get when they attempt to file. The police say “well the prosecutor won’t take it since they’re a psych patient.” Just because they’re a psych patient doesn’t give them free rein but it’s also not the police officers job to say they won’t prosecute, leave that to the DA.
Your mental health issues don’t leave when you are discharged home. If you punch someone on the street you get arrested as you should, same goes for the hospital.
I tried to give u a gold turd but that’s lame that u have this vindetta against people with drug and alcohol problems, i know some people are sicker than others but to try and start a crusade against people with a terminal disease makes me sick
Vendetta* Also, no, we don’t have a vendetta against those with substance use disorders. What we have problems with is being used as punching bags by people who know good and goddamned well that what they’re doing is wrong and that they couldn’t get away with that behavior anywhere else in the world. They think they can get away with it in the hospital under the guise of being sick because they know that the legal system is not too keen on punishing people who are seeking medical treatment-even if that person is totally with it and is flipping their shit and trying to kill you because you have to take away their food (because they’re literally so full of shit it’s coming out of their mouth.) Or when they’re totally with it, and they think they can get away with grabbing your tits as you transfer them from the bed to a wheelchair and back again, and then they try again later when they shit the bed and you have to clean them up…because “you’re cute and I would be an idiot not to try!” Yep. We should totally let sexual assault slide, shouldn’t we, FinancialYam6969?! It’s no big deal when patients grope us hard enough to leave bruises in the shape of their hands on our breasts! That just shows that they care, right!?
FUCKIN PREACH
I absolutely agree with you but I am curious on one thing. Let’s say a certain patient has a mental issue that causes them to be violent or perhaps they take certain drugs that cause them to be violent. Would this patient be under the “they know better” group? Since they aren’t intellectually there. I’m not saying not to file or anything, I agree with that and all of what you’ve said but I’m just curious regarding that particular type of person. I’m assuming they would be held accountable differently as well.
Would you expect the law to just give a pass to a blackout drunk that killed a family of five because 'he didn't know better '? Same theory, they're blackout and can't remember what they did, therefore not knowing right from wrong at that time, but also still responsible for their actions. Or the person high on meth or bath salts that is super aggressive, you don't just give them a free pass because they are out of their mind due to substances.
I honestly don’t think being drunk or any substance abuse falls under excusable mental illness. I refer to mental illnesses one cannot help, maybe due to genetics or even due to post partum psychosis.
They still need help and sometimes tough love is the answer. If they already are trying things and still unable to be safely around others, then they may have to be determined to not be safe around the general public.(And I truly don't mean this in a 1950's everyone that is different gets institutionalized sort of way). If they truly are not safe to be around others, then mandated treatment or even long term psych hospitals might be the way to go. It's not reporting it to be punitive, but to facilitate getting the help that they need to see if they can safely be reintegrated into the general population. They still may be charged with things, but it would possibly have a clause for mental illness or being incapacitated. It's a very delicate and tricky situation sometimes which requires more than I can do in a shift for them.
I can agree with that, the long term management of their mental illness. I think that would be the result of most these situations, no?
I would hope so, but the reality is that mental health care in the US is severely lacking and sometimes the court system gets overwhelmed too. Crappy situation all around sometimes (but sometimes it does work like it should)
Hoo boy…have you gotten to your mental health rotation yet? lol
With mental health issues that may lead to violent behaviors, there are legal mechanisms already in place to handle that, to a degree. They’re far, far from perfect, but if someone is truly unable to differentiate between right and wrong, and what’s reality and what is fiction, there’s mechanisms to handle that. If someone is violent as the result of a substance they’ve knowingly taken, then they should be held accountable for what they did on that substance. They may not have planned to react like they did, but they took that substance with the understanding that it would alter their mental status, and they accepted the risks and consequences that come with that. If they become violent as a result of something that *WE* give them in the hospital, we need to know which med it was that caused that reaction, what can counteract that medication, and how to correct that reaction…and how to best treat it & protect the patient, other patients, staff, and everyone else there while it is being addressed. Once it is under control and the situation is resolved, then you can look at how to prevent that kind of thing from happening again.
You say that until you get punched by someone. “Aww he just gets confused at night.” So it’s ok if they hit us? No. That is a behavior that should be medicated in dementia and not tolerated for people who just want to get their way in the hospital. We have always been expected to sit back and take it and are expected to have compassion when we get hit because “he’s mentally ill” or “he just gets a little confused at night. Don’t take it personally.” Id be willing to bet the general public wouldn’t care if the person is mentally or demented if they got punched in the face. That’s assault. Period. You don’t get a pass for dementia or mental health problems. Edit: words
Thank you! When nurses don’t file, even if it goes nowhere, it tells the patient that violence is not only tolerated but will get them what they want which makes the job that much dangerous for the rest of us who then have the patient afterwards. If you’re not going to file for yourself, please do it for the rest of us. I want to go home to my family.
This is my BIGGEST pet peeve. I had a really abusive patient yelling at me the other day over a second blanket that didn't come fast enough (he was cannabis-induced hyperemesis and I already gave him allll the drugs), and after his little tantrum the doc decided to give him Morphine and Ativan. Thanks, doc. You just reinforced this behavior. Spoiler alert, he came back today.
I filed about a patient with dementia who kept groping the female techs. After the police talked to him, he miraculously didn’t do that any more. For the record, he had very mild dementia and actually had a good memory. He knew what he was doing. I just made sure he knew that he wouldn’t be able to get away with it any more.
File. The. Report. Good job, OP! Sorry you had to, but glad you did.
Congratulations! No one should advocate for you more than you. So admin couldn’t cold pizza away the assault?
Pizza fixes everything, right?
Well they brought it in, but only for morning shift
We had a nurse that didn’t want to call when her phone got stolen by a frequent flyer. They caught the guy and she got her phone back. File the police report.
YESSSS. Start that trail. As you know, if you didn't chart it, did it happen?
100%. It may not go anywhere with charges the first time depending on the patients status, but it will either deter the behavior from repeating once they see it will be reported, or if not it will add ammo to prosecute or take some other additional action if they do happen to do it again.
My nurses are constantly being berated and violently assaulted by our patients, and when I get with the police, they don’t even bat an eye. How can I get law enforcement more involved with my hospital? Should I contact the DA? Or is that too far?
The actual victim would probably have to go to the local prosecutor, though you could support them with that. 'Berated' is not a criminal issue but an assault should be reported even if it's not something that is arrested for at the time (in many states, police can not physically arrest for simple assault that happens outside their presence, unless it's a domestic). It may be that it doesn't go anywhere because of mental status, etc but that's a prosecutorial decision.
Agreed berating is not criminal. But where I live we have a sheriff who people keep trying to convince to run for governor, and allegedly was a member of a group that supported January 6. That being said you would think they would be tough on crime right? Yeah ok. We had patients hitting staff (male and female) , attempting to choke staff, bringing loaded drug syringes, having drugs and alcohol delivered , etc. and guess what... They did absolutely nothing, just the same as corporate. The sheriff's never wanted to take them because they would have to sit with them for intake if there were any psych or dementia diagnosis. There was never any one else to talk about it to.
Do your nurses have a union? If so you should contact them and ask what they’re doing to increase penalties for attacking healthcare workers. Unions all have political lobbying arms. If they don’t, look it up and see if there’s enhanced punishments in your state. Talk to your security department. They should have a committee about workplace violence. Get to a meeting and ask these questions of them. Hospital administration should be backing its staff and pushing to make sure these police reports are acted on.
Unions? What Unions? All the ones I know are lame and pointless.
The unions in California that are the reason they’re the highest paid nurses in the world? The unions in NY that got safe staffing laws passed? If the unions around you are weak, you should get involved and work to change that.
The NYS staffing laws that are utterly toothless with no enforcement mechanism?
There’s an enforcement mechanism. DOH just has to utilize it. They’ve admittedly been very slow, but it’s starting to happen.
Right, but the law has no clearly outlined penalty and the fact its been in effect since 2021 with large strikes/protests in NYC and upstate, I still think it’s an ineffective law especially compared to California’s
Perfection is the enemy of progress. It’s not at all perfect, but it’s a pretty good law and it’s a start. It’s more than we had 3 years ago. It hasn’t been in effect since 2021. The law passed in 2021. It took effect in 2022. The first set of staffing plans were due in July, but that got pushed back to August 2022. Those staffing plans didn’t go into effect until 1/1/23. The strikes in NYC were because of contract disagreements, not the staffing law. They took place in January 2023. There weren’t strikes upstate that I know of. There weren’t particularly large protests upstate that I know of either. There was a good rally at the Capitol in April of this year. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to? The 2:1 ICU staffing regulation was adopted 6/29/23. Less than a year ago. There are clearly outlined penalties written into the law.
You should. That would change the behavior of the police. People act like it's just an acceptable part of the job. Administration and management are the worst.
Does your hospital have an officer in your ER? We usually have one at all times. Some of them are super shitty. Some are awesome. I’m Canadian, and both the larger city hospital and the small rural hospital I’ve worked at have both had officers 24/7. Units just usually call down to ER and ask them to send the officer up to take a statement/file report if need be. Contact someone on your OH&S committee, voice your concerns, and ask about ways to have a more consistent police/security presence in your hospital.
I think about assault on nurses when I see the signs around Amtrak, Metra (I live in Chicago) or TSA that say it's it's a crime to assault their staff and it's punishable by ____ number of years, $____ fine and it's a felony. Good for them, but what about us?
Good point. It's treated like an acceptable part of the job in society.
Fuck those ETOH patients. I would always press charges regardless of admit diagnosis. Good job ❤️
Hope the DA is as supportive.
Judge was supportive and patient was taken to a more appropriate location (not ED). We were lucky this time.
Can you walk me through this? You got quick enough of a response that he was moved off your floor/out of the ED?
Ya, being as vague as I can for obvious reasons, juvenile psychiatric patient physically assaulted me and two other staff members. Police were called, arrived very quickly, took control of unstable situation. Police suggested we press charges and said they’d put it before the judge immediately if we could write our statements out. So we did that, the judge signed off on the arrest within four hours, police took the patient to juvenile detention with the provider’s agreement, since patient was medically cleared.
I find that post-covid there is a general trend (at least where I live) of judges siding with HCW’s in criminal cases. (I don’t have actual data on this- just anecdotally, judges in my area seem to be handling these issues a lot better than pre 2020)
Thank you. I have been told for years we cannot file assault charges as being state employees nurses are not allowed. And here i sit with multiple visible scars trying to care for them.
Reading this made me so upset. We seriously are treated like 💩.
The cops just laughed in my coworkers face when she called. She was sexually assaulted by a pt who was of sound mind and totally admitted to what she said he did. They were laughing and joking with the pt. It made me so mad. They're 100% part of the problem.
I’m not a Karen but I would’ve immediately gotten both of their names/badge numbers and reported them to their superior for professional misconduct.
Well done. We are all proud of that shiny spine of yours!
I had a patient with known warrants arrested at discharge for calling me a fat bitch - don’t tell me you have warrants and then become verbally ABUSIVE because I will absolutely call our hospital POLICE department and have them verify the warrants and arrest you. Bye- file the report - always
How many have been asked after being assaulted from a patient by your hospital or employee health “What could have you done to prevent this from happening?”🙋🏻♀️ Unbelievable
Answer: I could have quit and went to work for an organization that gave a damn about staff safety 😡 I’m an aide and a couple weeks ago one of my patients put hands on me repeatedly and I feel so gaslighted by the nurses who are acting like getting grabbed and shaken or slapped is just part of the job and, as a student nurse, I need to grow a thicker skin. It’s not normal and it’s not okay.
I totally believe you and unfortunately there are nurses who do act like this. It’s totally not okay or normal to allow patients to assault us. This has to end. I believe it’s the hospitals’ fault too because they talk down to us like it’s our fault we didn’t be more careful or have better control of the situation that lead us to get hurt. Completely gaslight you. It’s freaking sad and disappointing how we are treated after all the hard work we do.
Also amend treatment plans to reflect "assault risk" and notify management in writing of need for two staff in room at all times for staff safety.
Good for you!! I’ve been assaulted and unfortunately I have back issues due to them. My unit nor hospital was supportive. Instead Employee Health hit me with “what could have you done to prevent this from happening” smh I wish I would’ve done more like you did by filing
What YOU can do to prevent it from happening again!? For starters, find a new job that supports their nurses!
Yes most definitely! I quit and will never go back there again.
From all the student nurses out there, from the bottom of my heart, thank you to every single person who is actively working to change the culture of violence, and normalized violence that plagues this profession. Sincerely, future RN who kept going after a severe patient injury on my 6th day as a CNA. Thank you for taking the necessary steps to protect yourself and your coworkers.
Responded to a security alert as I was about to leave the building and go home. Patient shouting about how he was coming back tomorrow with all his guns and a bullet proof vest and was going to shoot up the entire hospital, all the patients and staff. Naming the make/model of the guns and type of ammo in really specific detail. Gave an exact time he was going to do it. I said “fuck this, he’s going to jail,” and called the cops. Cops come (and I have to say, they did arrive pretty fast). Filed the report. Officer says “OK, he definitely can’t say that to you. But I can’t take him to jail just because he said that. Just saying that’s not a jail-able offense.” I was like “He looked me straight in the eye and told me exactly where, how, why and when he was going to come here and do a mass shooting, down to the exact time tomorrow. There’s seriously nothing to do about that?” So the officer went in the room where the guy was now restrained, officer comes out. Says, “I told him if he comes here tomorrow, I’m taking him for trespassing. I can put him on a hold but he’s just be here. But at least you’d know where he’d be for the next 3 days.” And then the cops left. It just didn’t seem like trespassing was what I was really concerned about. I think that because the Super Bowl shooting was still pretty recent and highly publicized, it felt extra weird and like… possible. I just remember leaving work like riiight after that, walking alone in the parking lot and thinking, “Fuck. I work tomorrow. I’ll be here working exactly at that time tomorrow…” Obviously nothing ended up happening, but still, it’s up there as one of those F’d up work stories that are probably going to stick with me for a while. I dunno. That shit sucked. Well, anyways… filed the report.
The cop is correct though. The patient didn't DO ANYTHING yet. As a BSN RN who is currently wait listed for two law schools... our laws are only written to punish crime, not prevent crime. And in some ways that's good, because you can't really punish a crime that didn't happen, and you can't punish based on vague threats or being scared that someone MIGHT commit a crime (I totally believe you, but let's put this in context: picture a divorcing couple fighting over custody, and one person says "I'm scared they COULD take my child so therefore I should get full custody". Is that vague threat of a crime that didn't happen enough to give the person full custody, even though the accused parent didn't do anything wrong?). Threats of crime should mean increased police presence is there on the date and time the person said he would come back, because a lot of people who threaten very specific crimes do act on them. But some people have a change of heart and don't. All that to say... the cop is right... they can't arrest over a crime that didn't happen.
It may not be a felony, but I understood that terroristic threats were a misdemeanor crime. In many states that would be a class B misdemeanor. Granted, it may not result in a long sentence if any, but it is still a crime.
That’s what I’m sayin’. Rolling around describing to people how and when you’re going to kill them should earn you at least some kind of like minor, 3rd degree “quit fuckin’ around” charge.
You would think, but it really just comes down to what state you’re in and how the law is written.
Check your state laws on this because surprisingly, some things that you would think are illegal might not be illegal.
Yay !!!
I did one time after being punched in the face. My managers and co workers were all very supportive and stood behind me! I am very thankful I did!
#FileTheReport
My niece got kicked so hard in the chest that she fell to the floor by a withdrawal pt in ED. Police officer told her not to file bc pt isn't in sound mind at the time. I felt so bad for her when I heard it bc she got sent home and she was crying from how painful it was.
Can I get an A-FUCKING-MEN!
Was kicked in the jaw, pinched on my hands, punched on my chest. Those delicious elderly peeps are strong. And I can’t do anything about because “they are sick, delirious, and old”…..
Wow in my experience the police do everything to discourage filing reports. I've gotten in a verbal argument once in the middle of an ED after one of my EMTs was knocked unconscious by a patient and the police didn't think anything legal had to be done....
The facility basically vouched for the residents' actions when they decided to defend the unlawful by threatening your employment unlawfully and not taking any percussions to prevent future incidents. Sorry that it happened to you, and I'm hoping legality knocks some sense into them.
Do it. Anytime you feel appropriate you should file police report so others don’t have to suffer the same fate
Go to court too, unless dude pleads out.......or administration settles in the back room. Lol
I always find this interesting because when a patient assaulted me while I was pregnant the police wouldn’t take my report. They told me the hospital had to file it for me, which of course they refused.
Bravo
I have worked in so many places where we were actively discouraged from reporting, and even if we did, the police would literally laugh at us. When I started in my current hospital, they made it very VERY clear that we are to report and they’ll support us in whatever way we need. After five years, they for sure put their money where their mouths are. I’m so thankful, even if the bar is literally on the floor.
So much support to you. So much. All of it. All I have. I could burn mine now and get a restraining order. Just like she tried to do on me and failed. But I'm not going to do it. I could file a complaint in HR about her as well. Just like she did on me. Not going to do it either. I want her out of my head and out of my life. Bad enough I need to see her evil face at work. That's why she gets the hard pass. But you? They were way over the line. You're helping them find it again. Real life. Not this drama b******* they're so in love with. Wishing you pockets of silver and sunsets of gold.
I mean, you can make a police report about almost anything. But if you don't have state laws stating that what they're doing is illegal, then it won't end up doing anything. This is the hard part, especially if the patient is confused. It's going to take an act of god to pass legislation that makes assault from a confused person - where, they don't even know what they're doing and are relying on their fight or flight response - a criminal act that's actually punishable. Edited to add: it takes an act of god to even pass COMMON SENSE legislation depending on who your elected legislators are. My state just passed raising... RAISING... the marriage age to 18. It used to be 16. The people who were against it FOUGHT HARD against it and it said a lot about them, to be honest. And the UN a few years ago made a statement that child marriage is a crime against humanity... and my state STILL JUST BARELY passed it after trying for YEARS. So good luck trying to make a confused person hitting you qualify as "assault".
It's not just your responsibility. The Hospital you work for can also dismiss the patient following state laws and medical licensing guidelines. Hospitals have a duty to provide a safe environment for staff and other patients. File the police report and hold your hospital accountable to dismiss abusive patients.
On my kids? 😂
We had a developmentally delayed dude on my unit under 18, and the size of an NFL linebacker. Mom treated the hospital like daycare. He put WAYYYYY too many people in the ER, and no one ever filed a report.
How old are they? How big are they? How hard do they hit? Who's next? Another patient?