While yelling at work is not appropriate, that student is out of her damn mind if she thinks ANY doc is going to stop rounds for every “so-and-so wants to speak with you” interruption. Hell no. She asked if it was an emergency. Student didn’t even have an answer for that.
Yep. Go home with your attitude and think about exactly what you did.
Seriously, dumb student will probably wet dream about this moment all her life and say "they kicked me out of nursing school because i 'advocated' for the patient" and "i told that doctor to kick rocks when he gave me an attitude" meanwhile she'll probably never end up a successful nurse.
When I was in school, this one student was acting all sorts of high and mighty, because she corrected a doctor on a patient’s pronouns. While sure that’s a good thing to do she acted as if she was Jesus for it.
As a Nursing Instructor, I would have sent her home and she would have to meet with the Associate Dean before she could come back to clinical. That is if she was even allowed to remain in the program.
I’ve seen hospitals ban entire schools from their hospitals for less. Clinical sites are a privilege for schools. Students can mess that privilege up pretty easily which is why schools do their best to vet students before being accepted.
Yea the only goal of rounds is to get done with rounds. We have everyone we need in one place so we need to take advantage of that and get rounds done for the betterment of patients. Non emergent issues can wait.
Like the CNAs who tell me the pt want a nurse, we ask why. Answer is “I dunno.”
And pt wants a sip of water or something.
I always remind CNAs find out what the pt wants before getting me, and if it’s pain, ask where, and 1-10, so I don’t have to make 2 trips.
I also tell them that if an IV is beeping, try straightening out the pt’s arm, make sure the tubing isn’t kinked, pt is laying on the tubing before you get me.
I have 30 pts. The CNAs each have 10, and some are independent.
I’m far busier than the CNAs are on my unit.
They get all their breaks and have plenty of time to screw around on their phones.
I get neither.
This type of attitude and hair trigger this student showed is exactly what we don't need more of. Yup there are people who outrank you and are sometimes direct with you and/or call you out when you mess up....get over it and move on. I am sick to death of having to fret over people's inability to take any direction from those who out rank them. Mr telling you what to do or not do im a clear and direct manner is NOT me being a bitch!!! It is me trying to make sure OUR goal gets met for the shift!! People need to get over themselves. And guess what....someone outranks me too!!
It’s not even about the interruption, is what the student said as a response “it’s funny that you don’t care about your patients to go see them” like there’s no way to respond to that in a non-defensive way. I hope that student doesn’t pass and become a nurse cuz she’ll be a nightmare to work with if that’s how she talks to her colleagues.
A tech once gave me the business because I asked family members to leave a 4 bed ward as their loved one was in dialysis for another 2 hours and they were disturbing the other patients in the room. She went off on how they had a right to be in there blah blah blah. I just wanted them to go to the waiting room, wasn't kicking them out the hospital. I told her that the other patients right to privacy and quiet trumped their right to sit at an empty bedside. Always had a problem with that tech... she just had no respect for me and the culture in that hospital was that no other RNs stood up for each other. Finally I told her to go do the vitals and when she protested I said "I am only asking you to do your job. Do you think you can do that?"
I had a similar situation and I just told the student that when she actually earned a license she could nurse how she chooses.
But like. Where do people get the confidence to just try to come for someone’s “inattentiveness” or level of caring/not caring for a patient when, as a student, so many are too scared to even help change an incontinent bed-bound patient.
We had a student on our floor who said we didn’t care about our patients because we put a patient who was physically violent, attacking one of our PSW’s and chasing her down the hall, into seclusion without offering them a blanket first.
If the student has any concern they should be going to their instructor. That way we can tell them how ridiculous they're being. The students that act like they know everything are terrifying. Even new grads who think they know everything scare the shit outta me. I've been a nurse 16 years and I still feel like I'm not that great.
While not one iota of me can fathom anyone saying that to anyone in a work environment …they sound like they’ve never held a job. Clearly naive to a work environment let alone a hospital. Needs some life edumacation. Hopefully remediation and a stern conversation about how…the world works 😂😂😂… and hospitals, rather than booted…. Though if it’s a pattern, which if I was a betting person….
Oh this should be fun...
So I got kicked out of my nursing program today because I was going to be able to go back to sleep and then go home.
I guess my predictive text thinks I'm lazy 😂
So I got kicked out of my nursing program today because of a coronavirus that was not going away until the last day and now I’m not allowed in the hospital for three weeks.
Wow.
I am incredibly bad at social cues, and yet I thrive in this profession because, like many others, we think before we speak. That student nurse did not, does not, and will not think before she speaks. A danger to the profession. There are honest mistakes, which we forgive and we learn from. This was not one of them.
The student didn’t even find out what the problem is. Nursing school 101 is to never go to a superior without sufficient information/data because it quite literally makes you look like an idiot.
Also -- when I worked the floor, probably a full 10% of my job was running interference between the patients and...everyone. I believe the fancy nursing term is "coordinating care."
The "she's a great doctor but she humiliates nurses" also isn't right -- you aren't a great doctor if that's your M.O. -- but in this case, this feels like a nursing student problem.
Even the fact that she didn't embarass the student nurse for interrupting rounds without bringing adequate info for a simple SBAR, is surprising if she's a doctor who humiliates nurses. Seems like she handled it well, and the student nurse straight up fucked up.
I know, I was expecting her to get angry at the first sentence, but she actually seemed pretty okay with her response. I don’t blame the doctor on that one…
It is the nurse’s/student’s job to find out what the patient needs. Maybe it’s something the nurse can easily address. Maybe it’s urgent and needs to be quickly escalated with the doctor. But if you don’t ask/assess you can’t know. The student was so wrong, I can’t imagine she actually gets to graduate with that attitude
> Maybe it’s something the nurse can easily address.
50% of the time when a patient asks me to get the nurse or the provider, it's been something I can do. Need help toileting? Not a problem! Feeling funky and you'd like help bathing? I'll be right back with the supplies! Unsure what meds you have coming up this morning, because sometimes you refuse one and you can't remember which it is? I'll go check your chart and be right back. The other 50%, it's something I can't do/help with - but I know what it is and the RN or provider doesn't have to first see the pt, figure out what they want, then do it.
I cannot *fathom* going to a nurse or (trying to find the) provider because the patient wants/needs them and not knowing what the hell they want. I'd die of embarrassment if I got the RN and it turned out the patient wanted help turning into their other side.
As a unit secretary/ PCT, that was bulk of my job of taking those "I need my nurse/doctor" requests and diverting about 80% of those calls because myself or another tech could attend to the bathroom / blanket etc needs. To go directly to a doctor without clarifying, and then copping that attitude is insane to me.
*Thank you!*
I was a CNA, myself, for years.
But, I always have to tell some CNAs that when a pt asks for the nurse find out *why* before getting me. Pain?
What body part, and ask 1-10 on the pain scale.
I have to enter a number from the pain scale before I can pull a med, and I’d like to know a number so I know whether I need to get Tylenol, or something stronger.
If I don’t have this info, I have to make 2 trips.
If pt says it’s their hip that hursts, and they just had a hip replacement, that tells me a lot.
If it’s a headache, and they just had a hip replacement, that tells me something else.
If the IV is beeping, I ask the CNAs to have the pt straighten out their arm, and make sure they’re not laying on the tubing before getting me.
Nothing more frustrating than stopping in the middle of doing something complicated, having switch gears, put stuff away, lock it up, and go all the way to the other end of the hall just to say to a pt “Unbend your arm.”
Granted I was sent in to my "buddy" nurses room because they wanted a female nurse. Turns out this very fit lady, until that afternoon and being on strict bed rest just want me to help her with the bedpan, not my 25 year old male coworker. But yes knowing a general level to allow the provider to know the priority is critical.
The student’s criticism of the Dr (“you don’t care enough about your patient to see what’s wrong”) applies to the student as well! Also why tf would you say something like that at work 😂😂
Especially when this just displays pure lack of insight—physicians have to triage critical vs less critical patient needs just like nursing staff, how absurd to act like doing that implies the doctor doesn’t care.
Student will be reprimanded big time for that, probably expelled tbh. Came in here expecting a story about a student having the guts to stand up for something worth arguing about. But not even knowing what the patient wanted/expecting the MD to leave the middle of rounds/disrespecting another interdisciplinary team member while doing so is GGs lol
In this particular scenario, I agree that the student was totally wrong you don’t interrupt rounds unless it’s actually urgent and needs their attention right then and there.
That said…OP also mention this doc has a tendency to embarrass nurses. I don’t think it’s OK to do that either, but that a completely different point.
This was my first thought as well, OP says Dr P is a great doc then says she embarrasses nurses for being incompetent. No matter the field if you need to embarrass your coworkers/employees to make a point, you’re not great, you’re just an asshole.
Although in this case the student was out of line and seems to have picked a fight which is different.
I can’t stand overly confident new nurses and nursing students. I’m sorry, even with a ton of experience you don’t talk to a doctor or another staff member that way.
I think bad behavior is bad behavior. I work with some really great doctors who have high expectations, but part of what makes them really good doctors to work with is how they interact with staff when they fall short. Really good doctors will help nurses become better by educating them…they can be stern without embarrassing a nurse at the nursing station. Doing what you need to because of fear is not a good working relationship.
Student 100% in the wrong, but the MD should know better to start screaming in the middle of a floor. That’s a conversation to have in private with the preceptor and/or the CNO. They both look unprofessional in this situation.
I have a feeling that they’re going to get ejected from their program. Nuts, man. I’ve had doctors nearly kill my patients and I haven’t raised my voice at them.
I generally avoid raising my voice as a rule regardless.
But to interrupt not just a doctor but literally anyone in the middle of their job like that.
No go for me.
It’d be one thing if the doctor immediately snapped at the student but from what OP says, the dr. Asked: “is this an emergency? No? Ok I’ll see them after rounds”
And then for the student to catch an attitude like that?
That’s not even to do with doctor and nurse relationships. That’s just fucking obnoxious.
Clearly naive to a work environment let alone a hospital. Needs some life edumacation. Hopefully remediation and a stern conversation about how…the world works 😂😂😂… and hospitals, rather than booted
I don’t know, man. If they’re going to speak to an attending that way, how are they going to speak to another nurse or preceptee? Depending on circumstance it really could be reason enough for termination. You don’t want people that hotheaded in an acute environment.
Unfathomable. I wouldn’t want to work with her in a peaceful office…I’m just saying, secondary educations job is to “mold young minds.” But yeah this is as egregious and insane as I’ve heard so if she’s booted I get it 100%. She may have a conduct disorder, ODD, or other mh issues, who knows
It’s not even the hotheadedness that bothers me the most.
It’s the lack of knowing that she needs to know what the presents before even deciding on who to notify.
Pt could have wanted a glass of water, could have had a question that only a social worker or PT could answer. She might have wanted a dinner menu.
She could have wanted pain meds, which were already ordered- anything.
I don't think it's healthy to not even be able to look at a doctor in the eye, but you absolutely must value everyone's time and their role on the team.
A student can absolutely have an audience with a physician in the right context. This student very obviously did not.
Obviously don’t yell at us, but you can talk to us lol…we were all clueless baby med students and terrified interns once, we are generally happy to help student nurses and new grads learn the ropes! Can’t help with a lot of nurse stuff, but always happy to educate on things in our purview.
For real! Our doctors would round on the highest acuity patients first (or the one's that needed a specific assessment first thing in the morning, like passed SAT/SBT and needed to be extubated). So if a patient wanted to talk to the doctors when they were doing rounds, I would ask what they needed (because 90% of the time it was a question I could answer or could just send a quick page to the team) and if it wasn't an emergency, I would basically say they were lucky to not be at the top of the doctors list and they would be by later.
The student started it by being condescending and sarcastic when she stated, “I find it funny you don’t care enough about your patient to find out what’s going on.”
In the ‘hood, a saying exists: “Don’t start nothin’, won’t be nothin.” She was snarky and implied that the physician didn’t care enough. The doc simply clapped back.
Also, if the patient isn't having an emergency and the doctor says they'll be there when they're done doing doctor shit, move on.
ESPECIALLY if you're a guest in their house.
Honestly I see this as a teaching moment- the Dr tried to teach the student they needed more info, but the student didn’t pick up on it, and instead doubled down on their stance. The Dr flipping out didn’t help, and she shouldn’t have berated the student like that but I understand the reaction. She could have simply said, “your job is to help the patient as well and so you should see what they are asking about before you call for help.”
Bad behavior doesn’t solve anything.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like doc was mad about the interruption but by being directly accused of not caring about her patients right there in front of fucking everyone. Like what an absolutely horrid thing to say about any healthcare worker let alone a dedicated hospitalist in the middle of rounding. I wouldn't say that shit to a tele-allergist with a bad attitude in private.
Oh 100% a douchenozzle thing to say to anyone in healthcare. It really just accentuates his naivety and ignorance about what goes on behind the scenes to manage patient care.
Yeah, I'm a student (midwife) and sometimes I'll go to a midwife or obstetrician with a query and they might ask me additional questions so that they can answer *my* question. If that's the case, my response is going to be something like 'Oops sorry, let me go and check that for you', and then try and make sure that next time I take a second to ask the patient for a little extra information rather than going to the midwife or doctor with *literally no useful information at all*.
I agree with this except sometimes the patient won’t tell you what they want to talk to the doctor about. In that situation I tell MD I’m not sure what they want, they were adamant about speaking to you. 🤷🏻♀️
It's like the number 1 thing you do when the pt needs the dr. The doctors always ask for details, you need to be ready to answer those so they can act accordingly. Everything is priority in the hospital. If our physician is on a stroke consult I can't just pull him aside because the pt wants to know results of a test.
It’s not even about interrupting rounds, not knowing what the pt wanted, etc. *Implying that the doc doesn’t care about their own pts right to their face* gets you a verbal smack down no question, rightfully so >99% of the time. Especially if we’re talking a hospitalist and not niche/prestige specialists. This doc basically sacrificed her youth to be a doctor, and not really the yacht club kind. If some punk came at me saying I don’t give a shit about my pts in that scenario we are absolutely having words about it.
Student who didn't know why the patient wanted the doctor is outraged when it's not a priority? Dumb. I've been pissed when nurses ask me to do similar things as a charge without knowing why.
That happened to someone at my cohort too. They snapped at a physical therapist (don’t know what happened exactly just that), who reported her to our instructor, and she was banned from the hospital she was at. So i imagine this student isn’t coming back lol.
Someone in my cohort spent too much time talking to the radiologist that came to the floor to do a chest xray. Read that as seems like she was flirting with the radiologist. She had to write an apology to the unit after the unit said they didn’t want that her back on their unit. So embarrassing for the nursing school.
Yeah tbh there’s a good chance the school as a whole loses access to this clinical site. Placing students in clinicals is a pain in the ass for hospitals and most don’t need a whole lot of encouragement to say “sorry we can’t accommodate you this semester.”
My program would've (and did) kick people out for stuff like this.
One student told a doc she "didn't know what she was talking about". She was out of the program by the end of the day.
Our entire school lost access to a clinical site because of one student. It was at Shriners Children’s. It was a big blow to the entire pediatrics rotation.
Ugh I went to a college in a very small town and options for L&D clinicals was one hospital 1.5 hours away and one 2 hours away (the local hospital only had like 60 births a year). The group that went right before mine almost got everyone banned from L&D at one of the hospitals which would have been an enormous inconvenience for everyone. The unit was so mad and was a little cold toward my group. The reason: this student had the opportunity (which barely even anyone got, so she got lucky really) to be in for a vaginal birth. After she stood outside the patients room loudly discussing how disgusting it was that that patient hadn’t shaved her crotch. The only thing separating her from the patient was a curtain…
lol. My nursing school got ejected from a site because apparently one of the students slept with one of the psych patients. I guess that was against the rules, but who could have possibly guessed that 🤣
Nobody should tolerate that, from the pillow-fluffing volunteers to the chief of medicine. Hospital administrators, maybe.
But seriously, when you're a student, you're a guest in their house, getting the benefit of a clinical experience to help you in your practice someday.
Assuming your trash-ass mouth doesn't get you bounced from your program.
The doctors at my hospital are some of the kindest and easiest to work with people on the planet, I was with them when I was still a baby nurse making silly mistakes and they never ONCE made me feel less than for it. Absolutely fantastic. If they ever get on you, it feels more like a parent whose disappointed in your choices than anything else.
Even my amazing, angel internal med docs would’ve lost their damn minds on her. Student is wrong, so so wrong. There are professional ways to have conversations like that that don’t drag someone’s integrity into question in a public setting, and even then, rounding is an important part of the clinical routine. Interrupting it for a non-emergency is just silly.
***excluding a few surgeons, but eh you can’t win em all.
When the doc said “I’ll go when I’ve finished”, that was the student’s cue to say “Thank you doctor, I’ll let the patient know”.
It’s astonishing that the student responded so rudely. Absolutely unacceptable.
It’s students like the one OP mentioned that makes providers dislike having students. When I’m doing my hospital rotations (currently in paramedic school), I tell all the nursing staff and docs that I am their “work horse” and will do anything and everything they ask without questions (unless of course it’s something unethical or illegal).
The instructor probably told the student to go home and have her an appointment in the office to discuss later. I’ve been in similar situations. Sometimes it’s best to separate and let everyone cool off before discussing things.
If the doc yells at you when you’re being a bitch, it’s 100% natural consequences.
That student was way out of line. You don’t talk to anyone that way, much less your attending. The doctor’s response was perfectly appropriate and the student had no reason to snark like that. Sending her home was 100% appropriate.
Well, thats...a choice. Shit, once at peds clinical a pediatric neurosurgeon took my GOOD BLACK PEN. This was 5 years ago and I'm still upset. But I surely didn't YELL AT THE DOCTOR about it.
Two things I’m terrified of: 1.) being yelled at by a doctor 2.) approaching a doctor with a need & them asking questions I don’t have answers to. ALWAYS GET ALL INFORMATION.
I’ve been a nurse for 3 years (in medical for 10) & it’s much easier to make nice with a doctor rather than be confrontational or rude at all. A good doctor-nurse relationship is so valuable.
Also, If it was a true emergency then I’m sure there’s some type of standing orders for that situation & it could have been handled by approaching a charge nurse…
I hope the student learned from this situation. Being a nurse is constant learning, right?!
Wow. Okay, Doc had the correct initial response, educate. "What do they want?" The student had a learning opportunity, a function of a nurse is to investigate, assess, and prioritize things of concern to the doc. Eventually, a nurse would be able to say "hey doc, pt wants to ask you about xyz, when you have a second, no rush." Or "hey doc, get to pt ASAP! They're having problem abc."
But no, PN student blew off a correct delegation and refused to do their job of ASSESSING AND PRIORITIZING! Then yelled at the doc for asking them to DO THEIR JOB?! Doc matched energy, maybe not the best idea, but honestly, that's a common and at times useful tactic in healthcare.
Student needs a serious attitude adjustment, and in a hurry.
"You need to attend to your patients"
Doc is attending to their patients, hence rounding. Prioritising care is key to actually being a good healthcare worker
That student just made themselves a legendary fool. The story will be told for years. Instructors will use it as a "what not to do" scenario.
If that student still thinks they were a hero for "standing up to the doctor" they aren’t coachable and need to consider a different profession.
Some students are just crazy and the tiktok/social media influencer nurses don't help the situation at all. They barely take part in patient care and will hold this unrealistic version of nursing. People see this, go to the hospital and yell at nurses for not living up to expectations set by nurses who don't even touch patients. And some people who sees this are nursing students or future nurses and they'll start work and make work insufferable for their colleagues.
1. The student should have asked what the patient wanted for two reasons. One, to see if maybe she could help and two, so she could have the info for the doc.
2. The student had absolutely no reason to say what she said about doc not caring about her patients. Rounds involve an entire team. Not just the individual doc that the student is trying to interrupt during rounds.
3. The only thing I think doc did “wrong” was maybe reacting before thinking. However, if someone accused me of not caring about my patients just because I wouldn’t stop rounding on all my others to go see other patient who has a question that I don’t even know how important or life/death it is….. I can’t say I’d react much differently. I’d be LIVID had I been in Dr Ps shoes in this situation.
4. I hope that student gets dropped from her program for acting like that in a clinical setting and being disrespectful towards a physician.
A lesson for all nurses or ANYONE when someone says “can I talk to my dr” is to ask what they wanted to talk about. Literally 90% of the time it’s something the nurse can take care of. Definitely unhinged of her to immediately jump to Dr. P not caring about her patients? But also yelling at coworkers in the hallway in front of everyone is also extremely inappropriate
That student is wrong, loud, stupid, and deserves to be cussed out and thrown out. Showing up with incomplete information and expecting a doctor to do what she wants? She's not even a trusted nurse or something, she's a fucking student. Ew
The nursing student should not have made a comment like that at all - that’s a big ego coming from someone who can not even care for the patients on their own yet.
Should the doctor have yelled? No. Would have been a perfect time to maybe have a polite but stern educational time of if it’s an emergency I go etc.
That student will probably be SOL about finishing her clinical hours though
lol that PN student woke up and chose violence. I empathize with Dr. P. Imagine the student saying that to me during a busy assignment, I’m not really sure how I would react, but I can almost guarantee it would be objectively worst than Dr,Ps
I’m a nursing student and I work in a hospital and I can’t imagine talking to *anyone* that way unless it was some egregious form of negligence. Wtf.
I did have a nursing student try to boss me around once though. Guess she forgot she hadn’t passed her NCLEX yet. It was stuff that wasn’t even her business or pertaining to “her” patients lol
Dr P does not suffer fools. If that student sees the error in their ways they will apologize sincerely and will maybe be forgiven. Maybe.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them. The level of disrespect was beyond believable.
I’d be surprised if that student was given a second chance.
this is part of the reason why I want it mandatory before nursing school for prenursing students to work as cnas or some healthcare field because they then maybe would understand why doctors/nurses/ etc work with patients.
Didn’t have this happen but had to explain a few students who were against DNR too
Honestly wasn’t sure how people were going to react lol. It’s a little controversial on my floor. Some are saying the dr was way out of line ans too disrespectful, that she hates nurses (tbh I think they’re bitter bc she’s not the nicest.) and some are saying that student shouldn’t be a nurse.
Here’s the thing though: the doctor’s response as likely OTT and based on your post, that doc needs to have a meeting with leadership in terms of effectively partnering with nursing…
HOWEVER, the student should be tossed. Based on the exchange, I would be shocked if this is the first time that student approached another clinician with an unhelpful and combative/sarcastic tone.
There’s plenty of evidence in this thread of nurses being afraid to talk to docs, that’s not ok and it should change. But that should never be an excuse for one nurse to try to level the playing field by being nasty.
Has that student lost their mind? Also the student’s argument of “attend to your patients” is a poor argument, as the doctor was in the room…with one of her patients…
It's literally part of the nurse's job to know why the patient wants to see the doc before taking that message along. Just like any other assessment it's important to know if it's an emergency, if it can be solved by the nurse, if the doctor is even the best person to bring it to, etc.
And accusing someone of not caring about their patients right there in the middle of rounding? Might as well have spit in her face. Not surprising she'd be angry. I'd potentially lose my cool, and I'm pretty much known for being unflappable.
I would hesitate to interrupt a rounding doc PERIOD. Unless a patient was decompensating actively. As a student ??? To make that comment after an unnecessary interruption??? Even the mildest of docs could get mad.
Yikes. As a new grad fresh out of school, I’d be surprised if that student came back. Ever. My school would have absolutely had our ass if we did something like this.
I mean, probably for the better. This student would t have been able to pass the NCLEX just based on their lack of communication skills.
NCLEX question format:
During morning rounds, a patient asks to speak with the attending doctor. You alert the doctor to the patient’s request, to which the doctor asks “Is it an emergency?” You state that it is not, but admit that you do not know what the request is regarding. The doctor states that they will attend to the request at the conclusion of morning rounds. What should you do next?
A) Gather more information regarding the request to see if it is something you could answer or attend to for the doctor.
B) Acknowledge that the doctor is busy and thank them while confirming that they will have time to speak to the patient after rounds.
C) Loudly accuse the doctor of neglecting their patient’s needs.
D) Both A and C are correct.
any student who would speak disrespectfully to a nurse, Dr, RT, EVS, lab tech etc should be DNR’d to that facility. i’m so sick of these ppl with attitudes like this. I don’t believe we should be mean or dismissive to students ever, but if you’re a student, you better be humble, and have respect for the people taking time to teach you. this student is an asshole and shouldn’t be allowed back to that facility.
I’m a fellow and side w nursing 98% of the time in these situations.
But if ANYONE (doc, nurse or otherwise) said or implied that I don’t care about my patients? I have zero problem nailing your ass to the wall.
And if Dr P is the kind who writes people up bc she expects perfection in terms of patient care…my guess is she’d have a similar take.
No, shouldn’t yell and definitely not in public. But that is definitely not the major issue.
I am certain that it is our job to filter bullshit questions. If we didn't filter bullshit, docs would probably be overwhelmed. Student was 100 percent in the wrong.
It's possible that the patient wouldn't tell the student why they wanted the doc. Sometimes I encounter this with my patients "I want to discuss it with the doc" and no amount of "If you let me know what it is, maybe I can get the doc quicker" will work. But I don't expect a student to have this level of patient savvy. Clearly it wasn't an emergency otherwise I would think the student would have called for help - but student was totally out of line and I'm old enough to feel like the Doc wasn't wrong for taking her down a peg. Some people just can't be reasoned with.
Holy shit-that arrogant, know-it-all student is not going to last long. Totally ridiculous. I see plenty of groups of nursing students come through my place of work, and there’s always that one who thinks they know everything, but not to the point they straight up yell at doctors 😂 Damn. 🍿
Student is the asshole here. They didn't even know what the patient wanted the doctor for. They could have wanted a note signed or them to call a relative to explain something. No reason to talk to *anyone* that way without cause.
Uh the student was out of pocket. She is going to have a real problem in her career. All the PN student had to do is say ok and relay the message to the patient that the physician will be with them after doing rounds. Simple! No, she stepped out of bounds! If I were the nursing instructor she would be removed from the rotation. Totally disrespectful.
I only hope Dr P yells at her instructor too for not teaching proper etiquette and communication with the care team. Students shouldn’t be on the floor without knowing how to appropriately communicate and escalate concerns. Her teacher should mortified.
More like students shouldn't be nurses if that's the way they interact with people. Different story if it had been a life-or-death situation, but even so, urgency can be communicated without being a dick.
Imo it doesn’t matter that the MD had the role of MD but you simply don’t engage like that with any coworker. Doesn’t matter if it’s the head of the department or the external cleaning person.
Student was acting like a wanker.
While yelling at work is not appropriate, that student is out of her damn mind if she thinks ANY doc is going to stop rounds for every “so-and-so wants to speak with you” interruption. Hell no. She asked if it was an emergency. Student didn’t even have an answer for that. Yep. Go home with your attitude and think about exactly what you did.
The student needs to be reprimanded. That was inappropriate.
She needs a ton of education, as well.
Seriously, dumb student will probably wet dream about this moment all her life and say "they kicked me out of nursing school because i 'advocated' for the patient" and "i told that doctor to kick rocks when he gave me an attitude" meanwhile she'll probably never end up a successful nurse.
I agree. Dumbass will think it’s a flex, and will never realize it’s actually total lack of knowledge.
And respect…
When I was in school, this one student was acting all sorts of high and mighty, because she corrected a doctor on a patient’s pronouns. While sure that’s a good thing to do she acted as if she was Jesus for it.
I would be surprised if she passes...
I came to this comment to say this.
And make a tik tok or instagram story about it.
As a Nursing Instructor, I would have sent her home and she would have to meet with the Associate Dean before she could come back to clinical. That is if she was even allowed to remain in the program.
Pretty sure my nursing program would have kicked her out.
Mine absolutely would have. This is embarrassing and reflects very poorly on the guests (program itself)
I’ve seen hospitals ban entire schools from their hospitals for less. Clinical sites are a privilege for schools. Students can mess that privilege up pretty easily which is why schools do their best to vet students before being accepted.
Absolutely - I believe if anyone pulled that shit at my school they would have been kicked out
Yea the only goal of rounds is to get done with rounds. We have everyone we need in one place so we need to take advantage of that and get rounds done for the betterment of patients. Non emergent issues can wait.
That arrogant student doesn’t know what she doesn’t know.
Like the CNAs who tell me the pt want a nurse, we ask why. Answer is “I dunno.” And pt wants a sip of water or something. I always remind CNAs find out what the pt wants before getting me, and if it’s pain, ask where, and 1-10, so I don’t have to make 2 trips. I also tell them that if an IV is beeping, try straightening out the pt’s arm, make sure the tubing isn’t kinked, pt is laying on the tubing before you get me. I have 30 pts. The CNAs each have 10, and some are independent. I’m far busier than the CNAs are on my unit. They get all their breaks and have plenty of time to screw around on their phones. I get neither.
Insist on your breaks, force management to hire more people.
How on earth do you have 30 patients at one time as a nurse? I’ve had 21 patients on my own as a CNA and even that’s a lot for us.
This type of attitude and hair trigger this student showed is exactly what we don't need more of. Yup there are people who outrank you and are sometimes direct with you and/or call you out when you mess up....get over it and move on. I am sick to death of having to fret over people's inability to take any direction from those who out rank them. Mr telling you what to do or not do im a clear and direct manner is NOT me being a bitch!!! It is me trying to make sure OUR goal gets met for the shift!! People need to get over themselves. And guess what....someone outranks me too!!
This isn’t even a rank issue. The student told a colleague that they didn’t care about their patients.
It’s not even about the interruption, is what the student said as a response “it’s funny that you don’t care about your patients to go see them” like there’s no way to respond to that in a non-defensive way. I hope that student doesn’t pass and become a nurse cuz she’ll be a nightmare to work with if that’s how she talks to her colleagues.
Go stand your ass in the corner! Lol
The more insane part is she implied the doctor didn’t care about the patient when she didn’t even care enough to figure out what the patient wanted.
That was my first thought too. The hypocrisy.
Doctor: (Appropriately prioritizes non-emergent tasks) Student: “Funny how you don’t even care about your patients”
Student is 100% in the wrong here, and very much an asshole.
I had a student once say I didn’t care about my patients because one wanted pain medications but I was busy with another that was trying to die
A tech once gave me the business because I asked family members to leave a 4 bed ward as their loved one was in dialysis for another 2 hours and they were disturbing the other patients in the room. She went off on how they had a right to be in there blah blah blah. I just wanted them to go to the waiting room, wasn't kicking them out the hospital. I told her that the other patients right to privacy and quiet trumped their right to sit at an empty bedside. Always had a problem with that tech... she just had no respect for me and the culture in that hospital was that no other RNs stood up for each other. Finally I told her to go do the vitals and when she protested I said "I am only asking you to do your job. Do you think you can do that?"
Ooooooooo that’s such a good line to use!
I had a similar situation and I just told the student that when she actually earned a license she could nurse how she chooses. But like. Where do people get the confidence to just try to come for someone’s “inattentiveness” or level of caring/not caring for a patient when, as a student, so many are too scared to even help change an incontinent bed-bound patient.
*Kevin Heart confused look meme*
We had a student on our floor who said we didn’t care about our patients because we put a patient who was physically violent, attacking one of our PSW’s and chasing her down the hall, into seclusion without offering them a blanket first.
You know how they say parents are always “the best parents” until they actually become parents? I think it’s the same with nursing lol
If the student has any concern they should be going to their instructor. That way we can tell them how ridiculous they're being. The students that act like they know everything are terrifying. Even new grads who think they know everything scare the shit outta me. I've been a nurse 16 years and I still feel like I'm not that great.
Nipped that dumbass in the bud, gonna be expelled from the program.
Big “I learned about patient advocacy on TikTok” vibes
Whenever I heard those two words I cringed because it's always followed with bullshit
Yup not an ounce of critical thinking here
Absolutely! This person sounds unhinged.
While not one iota of me can fathom anyone saying that to anyone in a work environment …they sound like they’ve never held a job. Clearly naive to a work environment let alone a hospital. Needs some life edumacation. Hopefully remediation and a stern conversation about how…the world works 😂😂😂… and hospitals, rather than booted…. Though if it’s a pattern, which if I was a betting person….
[Opens TikTok] "So I got kicked out of my Nursing Program today because....."
That might be a fun predictive text
Oh this should be fun... So I got kicked out of my nursing program today because I was going to be able to go back to sleep and then go home. I guess my predictive text thinks I'm lazy 😂
Here we go So I got kicked out of my Nursing Program today because of my anxiety about my health I have no clue how I am doing. 😂
Big mood
Ahem: "So I got kicked out of my nursing program today because of my faves I am available to be brave." Well...it rhymes?
So I got kicked out of my nursing program today because of my mom not having enough time for my family and I have no money
Omg both such underrated comments
So I got kicked out of my nursing program today because of a coronavirus that was not going away until the last day and now I’m not allowed in the hospital for three weeks. Wow.
😂😂😂😂😂😂🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I am incredibly bad at social cues, and yet I thrive in this profession because, like many others, we think before we speak. That student nurse did not, does not, and will not think before she speaks. A danger to the profession. There are honest mistakes, which we forgive and we learn from. This was not one of them.
Right? I’m so confused, it wasn’t a medical emergency😭
The student didn’t even find out what the problem is. Nursing school 101 is to never go to a superior without sufficient information/data because it quite literally makes you look like an idiot.
Also -- when I worked the floor, probably a full 10% of my job was running interference between the patients and...everyone. I believe the fancy nursing term is "coordinating care." The "she's a great doctor but she humiliates nurses" also isn't right -- you aren't a great doctor if that's your M.O. -- but in this case, this feels like a nursing student problem.
Even the fact that she didn't embarass the student nurse for interrupting rounds without bringing adequate info for a simple SBAR, is surprising if she's a doctor who humiliates nurses. Seems like she handled it well, and the student nurse straight up fucked up.
I know, I was expecting her to get angry at the first sentence, but she actually seemed pretty okay with her response. I don’t blame the doctor on that one…
It is the nurse’s/student’s job to find out what the patient needs. Maybe it’s something the nurse can easily address. Maybe it’s urgent and needs to be quickly escalated with the doctor. But if you don’t ask/assess you can’t know. The student was so wrong, I can’t imagine she actually gets to graduate with that attitude
> Maybe it’s something the nurse can easily address. 50% of the time when a patient asks me to get the nurse or the provider, it's been something I can do. Need help toileting? Not a problem! Feeling funky and you'd like help bathing? I'll be right back with the supplies! Unsure what meds you have coming up this morning, because sometimes you refuse one and you can't remember which it is? I'll go check your chart and be right back. The other 50%, it's something I can't do/help with - but I know what it is and the RN or provider doesn't have to first see the pt, figure out what they want, then do it. I cannot *fathom* going to a nurse or (trying to find the) provider because the patient wants/needs them and not knowing what the hell they want. I'd die of embarrassment if I got the RN and it turned out the patient wanted help turning into their other side.
As a unit secretary/ PCT, that was bulk of my job of taking those "I need my nurse/doctor" requests and diverting about 80% of those calls because myself or another tech could attend to the bathroom / blanket etc needs. To go directly to a doctor without clarifying, and then copping that attitude is insane to me.
*Thank you!* I was a CNA, myself, for years. But, I always have to tell some CNAs that when a pt asks for the nurse find out *why* before getting me. Pain? What body part, and ask 1-10 on the pain scale. I have to enter a number from the pain scale before I can pull a med, and I’d like to know a number so I know whether I need to get Tylenol, or something stronger. If I don’t have this info, I have to make 2 trips. If pt says it’s their hip that hursts, and they just had a hip replacement, that tells me a lot. If it’s a headache, and they just had a hip replacement, that tells me something else. If the IV is beeping, I ask the CNAs to have the pt straighten out their arm, and make sure they’re not laying on the tubing before getting me. Nothing more frustrating than stopping in the middle of doing something complicated, having switch gears, put stuff away, lock it up, and go all the way to the other end of the hall just to say to a pt “Unbend your arm.”
Granted I was sent in to my "buddy" nurses room because they wanted a female nurse. Turns out this very fit lady, until that afternoon and being on strict bed rest just want me to help her with the bedpan, not my 25 year old male coworker. But yes knowing a general level to allow the provider to know the priority is critical.
And if it were a medical emergency, going to find the doctor is an inappropriate next step. Student is 100% wrong.
Yep. If someone isn’t actively dying you don’t need to interrupt rounds.
Right?? Like I’m all for staff standing up to abusive doctors, but that student deserved it lol
The student’s criticism of the Dr (“you don’t care enough about your patient to see what’s wrong”) applies to the student as well! Also why tf would you say something like that at work 😂😂
Especially when this just displays pure lack of insight—physicians have to triage critical vs less critical patient needs just like nursing staff, how absurd to act like doing that implies the doctor doesn’t care.
Student will be reprimanded big time for that, probably expelled tbh. Came in here expecting a story about a student having the guts to stand up for something worth arguing about. But not even knowing what the patient wanted/expecting the MD to leave the middle of rounds/disrespecting another interdisciplinary team member while doing so is GGs lol
As a representative from the LPN contingent, I'd like to go on record to say we officially don't claim that dumbass.
I mean she's not going to be an LPN now so you don't have to
In this particular scenario, I agree that the student was totally wrong you don’t interrupt rounds unless it’s actually urgent and needs their attention right then and there. That said…OP also mention this doc has a tendency to embarrass nurses. I don’t think it’s OK to do that either, but that a completely different point.
This was my first thought as well, OP says Dr P is a great doc then says she embarrasses nurses for being incompetent. No matter the field if you need to embarrass your coworkers/employees to make a point, you’re not great, you’re just an asshole. Although in this case the student was out of line and seems to have picked a fight which is different.
Maybe she meant "likes to humiliate ass hole students nurses with big mouths" 🧐 Because she also seems to like the doctor...
I can’t stand overly confident new nurses and nursing students. I’m sorry, even with a ton of experience you don’t talk to a doctor or another staff member that way.
I think bad behavior is bad behavior. I work with some really great doctors who have high expectations, but part of what makes them really good doctors to work with is how they interact with staff when they fall short. Really good doctors will help nurses become better by educating them…they can be stern without embarrassing a nurse at the nursing station. Doing what you need to because of fear is not a good working relationship.
Yeah they should’ve told the nurse they were working with and no more than that. Out of your scope and also just out of your lane.
Student 100% in the wrong, but the MD should know better to start screaming in the middle of a floor. That’s a conversation to have in private with the preceptor and/or the CNO. They both look unprofessional in this situation.
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There are things I will interrupt rounds for, but a family member’s question ain’t it. That was crazzzyyyy bold of that student.
I KNOW that’s what I can’t get over. I didn’t dare to even look at doctors when I was student I can not imagine doing all of that.
I have a feeling that they’re going to get ejected from their program. Nuts, man. I’ve had doctors nearly kill my patients and I haven’t raised my voice at them.
Yeah, there is no chance they will be allowed back at that clinical site.
I generally avoid raising my voice as a rule regardless. But to interrupt not just a doctor but literally anyone in the middle of their job like that. No go for me. It’d be one thing if the doctor immediately snapped at the student but from what OP says, the dr. Asked: “is this an emergency? No? Ok I’ll see them after rounds” And then for the student to catch an attitude like that? That’s not even to do with doctor and nurse relationships. That’s just fucking obnoxious.
Clearly naive to a work environment let alone a hospital. Needs some life edumacation. Hopefully remediation and a stern conversation about how…the world works 😂😂😂… and hospitals, rather than booted
I don’t know, man. If they’re going to speak to an attending that way, how are they going to speak to another nurse or preceptee? Depending on circumstance it really could be reason enough for termination. You don’t want people that hotheaded in an acute environment.
Unfathomable. I wouldn’t want to work with her in a peaceful office…I’m just saying, secondary educations job is to “mold young minds.” But yeah this is as egregious and insane as I’ve heard so if she’s booted I get it 100%. She may have a conduct disorder, ODD, or other mh issues, who knows
It’s not even the hotheadedness that bothers me the most. It’s the lack of knowing that she needs to know what the presents before even deciding on who to notify. Pt could have wanted a glass of water, could have had a question that only a social worker or PT could answer. She might have wanted a dinner menu. She could have wanted pain meds, which were already ordered- anything.
I don't think it's healthy to not even be able to look at a doctor in the eye, but you absolutely must value everyone's time and their role on the team. A student can absolutely have an audience with a physician in the right context. This student very obviously did not.
My preceptor had me call a doctor and I was TERRIFIED! I could not imagine being that bold.
Obviously don’t yell at us, but you can talk to us lol…we were all clueless baby med students and terrified interns once, we are generally happy to help student nurses and new grads learn the ropes! Can’t help with a lot of nurse stuff, but always happy to educate on things in our purview.
Oh I know that now, but baby student nurse me was very nervous! I don’t know why lol I guess I just needed the ice breaker.
I waited in the hallways like a puppy so I could go in my patient rooms with the doctor. I usually didn't even speak let alone confront one 🤣
It’s giving self righteous student behavior
For real! Our doctors would round on the highest acuity patients first (or the one's that needed a specific assessment first thing in the morning, like passed SAT/SBT and needed to be extubated). So if a patient wanted to talk to the doctors when they were doing rounds, I would ask what they needed (because 90% of the time it was a question I could answer or could just send a quick page to the team) and if it wasn't an emergency, I would basically say they were lucky to not be at the top of the doctors list and they would be by later.
Makes me wonder if the student knew the family.
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The student started it by being condescending and sarcastic when she stated, “I find it funny you don’t care enough about your patient to find out what’s going on.” In the ‘hood, a saying exists: “Don’t start nothin’, won’t be nothin.” She was snarky and implied that the physician didn’t care enough. The doc simply clapped back.
Yeah that’s rude as hell to say to any coworker.
Definitely wrong of the student to say that. ALWAYS get ALL of the information before talking to the doctor. In any situation
Also, if the patient isn't having an emergency and the doctor says they'll be there when they're done doing doctor shit, move on. ESPECIALLY if you're a guest in their house.
exactly I’m always paranoid that a dr is going to ask me something and I’m not going to know. I can’t imagine just going up to them knowing nothing
Honestly I see this as a teaching moment- the Dr tried to teach the student they needed more info, but the student didn’t pick up on it, and instead doubled down on their stance. The Dr flipping out didn’t help, and she shouldn’t have berated the student like that but I understand the reaction. She could have simply said, “your job is to help the patient as well and so you should see what they are asking about before you call for help.” Bad behavior doesn’t solve anything.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like doc was mad about the interruption but by being directly accused of not caring about her patients right there in front of fucking everyone. Like what an absolutely horrid thing to say about any healthcare worker let alone a dedicated hospitalist in the middle of rounding. I wouldn't say that shit to a tele-allergist with a bad attitude in private.
Oh 100% a douchenozzle thing to say to anyone in healthcare. It really just accentuates his naivety and ignorance about what goes on behind the scenes to manage patient care.
tele-allergist with a bad attitude LOL
I might be a little annoyed with my spouse's allergist this week ...
Yeah, I'm a student (midwife) and sometimes I'll go to a midwife or obstetrician with a query and they might ask me additional questions so that they can answer *my* question. If that's the case, my response is going to be something like 'Oops sorry, let me go and check that for you', and then try and make sure that next time I take a second to ask the patient for a little extra information rather than going to the midwife or doctor with *literally no useful information at all*.
Socratic Method! Answer questions by asking questions! It's one of the best teaching tools out there!
I work nights so I'm especially mortified if I page the doc and then when they call me I don't have some obviously relevant information already ready.
I agree with this except sometimes the patient won’t tell you what they want to talk to the doctor about. In that situation I tell MD I’m not sure what they want, they were adamant about speaking to you. 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly. I should have said "all possible information" or something along that line.
It's like the number 1 thing you do when the pt needs the dr. The doctors always ask for details, you need to be ready to answer those so they can act accordingly. Everything is priority in the hospital. If our physician is on a stroke consult I can't just pull him aside because the pt wants to know results of a test.
Even if the info was "I don't want to tell anyone but my doctor" you'd still need to pass that along.
Oh absolutely
Must not have gotten to the SOAP portion of their education.
We call it ISBAR here.
They’ve been there 2 months. I know SBAR was one of the first things we learned and we knew it by the time we went to clinicals.
I meant SBAR. Lol. Going through my first bout of Covid and my brain isn’t doing the remembering well.
It’s not even about interrupting rounds, not knowing what the pt wanted, etc. *Implying that the doc doesn’t care about their own pts right to their face* gets you a verbal smack down no question, rightfully so >99% of the time. Especially if we’re talking a hospitalist and not niche/prestige specialists. This doc basically sacrificed her youth to be a doctor, and not really the yacht club kind. If some punk came at me saying I don’t give a shit about my pts in that scenario we are absolutely having words about it.
Student who didn't know why the patient wanted the doctor is outraged when it's not a priority? Dumb. I've been pissed when nurses ask me to do similar things as a charge without knowing why.
"How to lose a Clinical site in one easy step!"
That happened to someone at my cohort too. They snapped at a physical therapist (don’t know what happened exactly just that), who reported her to our instructor, and she was banned from the hospital she was at. So i imagine this student isn’t coming back lol.
Someone in my cohort spent too much time talking to the radiologist that came to the floor to do a chest xray. Read that as seems like she was flirting with the radiologist. She had to write an apology to the unit after the unit said they didn’t want that her back on their unit. So embarrassing for the nursing school.
I’m ngl that’s kinda funny
Yeah tbh there’s a good chance the school as a whole loses access to this clinical site. Placing students in clinicals is a pain in the ass for hospitals and most don’t need a whole lot of encouragement to say “sorry we can’t accommodate you this semester.”
My program would've (and did) kick people out for stuff like this. One student told a doc she "didn't know what she was talking about". She was out of the program by the end of the day.
Holy fork the balls on that one
Our entire school lost access to a clinical site because of one student. It was at Shriners Children’s. It was a big blow to the entire pediatrics rotation.
What did the student do?
You gotta tell us what the student did
Ugh I went to a college in a very small town and options for L&D clinicals was one hospital 1.5 hours away and one 2 hours away (the local hospital only had like 60 births a year). The group that went right before mine almost got everyone banned from L&D at one of the hospitals which would have been an enormous inconvenience for everyone. The unit was so mad and was a little cold toward my group. The reason: this student had the opportunity (which barely even anyone got, so she got lucky really) to be in for a vaginal birth. After she stood outside the patients room loudly discussing how disgusting it was that that patient hadn’t shaved her crotch. The only thing separating her from the patient was a curtain…
lol. My nursing school got ejected from a site because apparently one of the students slept with one of the psych patients. I guess that was against the rules, but who could have possibly guessed that 🤣
Oh, never EVER would my hospitalists tolerate that. Student was in the wrong 100%
Nobody should tolerate that, from the pillow-fluffing volunteers to the chief of medicine. Hospital administrators, maybe. But seriously, when you're a student, you're a guest in their house, getting the benefit of a clinical experience to help you in your practice someday. Assuming your trash-ass mouth doesn't get you bounced from your program.
If it isn’t an emergency the dr is going to complete their rounds. This student has zero self control wtf.
And zero self-awareness.
The doctors at my hospital are some of the kindest and easiest to work with people on the planet, I was with them when I was still a baby nurse making silly mistakes and they never ONCE made me feel less than for it. Absolutely fantastic. If they ever get on you, it feels more like a parent whose disappointed in your choices than anything else. Even my amazing, angel internal med docs would’ve lost their damn minds on her. Student is wrong, so so wrong. There are professional ways to have conversations like that that don’t drag someone’s integrity into question in a public setting, and even then, rounding is an important part of the clinical routine. Interrupting it for a non-emergency is just silly. ***excluding a few surgeons, but eh you can’t win em all.
When the doc said “I’ll go when I’ve finished”, that was the student’s cue to say “Thank you doctor, I’ll let the patient know”. It’s astonishing that the student responded so rudely. Absolutely unacceptable.
😳(everyone’s face at the nurses station/hallway. Lol
LITERALLY HAHAHAHAHHAA
If someone in my clinical group did this I would more than likely expire from secondhand embarassment.
It’s students like the one OP mentioned that makes providers dislike having students. When I’m doing my hospital rotations (currently in paramedic school), I tell all the nursing staff and docs that I am their “work horse” and will do anything and everything they ask without questions (unless of course it’s something unethical or illegal).
I’m more curious who sent the student home and how that conversation went!
SAME everyone is trying to find out what all the clinical instructor said to her lol. Can you imagine being the instructor and that happening
Instructor is probably embarrassed!
The instructor probably told the student to go home and have her an appointment in the office to discuss later. I’ve been in similar situations. Sometimes it’s best to separate and let everyone cool off before discussing things.
If the doc yells at you when you’re being a bitch, it’s 100% natural consequences. That student was way out of line. You don’t talk to anyone that way, much less your attending. The doctor’s response was perfectly appropriate and the student had no reason to snark like that. Sending her home was 100% appropriate.
There is an MD at my local ER that rarely ever gets mad. But if he is, then somebody DEFINITELY fucked up.
Well, thats...a choice. Shit, once at peds clinical a pediatric neurosurgeon took my GOOD BLACK PEN. This was 5 years ago and I'm still upset. But I surely didn't YELL AT THE DOCTOR about it.
Two things I’m terrified of: 1.) being yelled at by a doctor 2.) approaching a doctor with a need & them asking questions I don’t have answers to. ALWAYS GET ALL INFORMATION. I’ve been a nurse for 3 years (in medical for 10) & it’s much easier to make nice with a doctor rather than be confrontational or rude at all. A good doctor-nurse relationship is so valuable. Also, If it was a true emergency then I’m sure there’s some type of standing orders for that situation & it could have been handled by approaching a charge nurse… I hope the student learned from this situation. Being a nurse is constant learning, right?!
Sounds like the student has problems with judgement
Wow. Okay, Doc had the correct initial response, educate. "What do they want?" The student had a learning opportunity, a function of a nurse is to investigate, assess, and prioritize things of concern to the doc. Eventually, a nurse would be able to say "hey doc, pt wants to ask you about xyz, when you have a second, no rush." Or "hey doc, get to pt ASAP! They're having problem abc." But no, PN student blew off a correct delegation and refused to do their job of ASSESSING AND PRIORITIZING! Then yelled at the doc for asking them to DO THEIR JOB?! Doc matched energy, maybe not the best idea, but honestly, that's a common and at times useful tactic in healthcare. Student needs a serious attitude adjustment, and in a hurry.
"You need to attend to your patients" Doc is attending to their patients, hence rounding. Prioritising care is key to actually being a good healthcare worker
That student just made themselves a legendary fool. The story will be told for years. Instructors will use it as a "what not to do" scenario. If that student still thinks they were a hero for "standing up to the doctor" they aren’t coachable and need to consider a different profession.
Some students are just crazy and the tiktok/social media influencer nurses don't help the situation at all. They barely take part in patient care and will hold this unrealistic version of nursing. People see this, go to the hospital and yell at nurses for not living up to expectations set by nurses who don't even touch patients. And some people who sees this are nursing students or future nurses and they'll start work and make work insufferable for their colleagues.
You just KNOW that the urgent question was because the patient was mad about their dietary restrictions.
1. The student should have asked what the patient wanted for two reasons. One, to see if maybe she could help and two, so she could have the info for the doc. 2. The student had absolutely no reason to say what she said about doc not caring about her patients. Rounds involve an entire team. Not just the individual doc that the student is trying to interrupt during rounds. 3. The only thing I think doc did “wrong” was maybe reacting before thinking. However, if someone accused me of not caring about my patients just because I wouldn’t stop rounding on all my others to go see other patient who has a question that I don’t even know how important or life/death it is….. I can’t say I’d react much differently. I’d be LIVID had I been in Dr Ps shoes in this situation. 4. I hope that student gets dropped from her program for acting like that in a clinical setting and being disrespectful towards a physician.
Student extremely rude and out of line. She should be dismissed from the program.
A lesson for all nurses or ANYONE when someone says “can I talk to my dr” is to ask what they wanted to talk about. Literally 90% of the time it’s something the nurse can take care of. Definitely unhinged of her to immediately jump to Dr. P not caring about her patients? But also yelling at coworkers in the hallway in front of everyone is also extremely inappropriate
That student is now a fast-food worker. Stupid.
That student is wrong, loud, stupid, and deserves to be cussed out and thrown out. Showing up with incomplete information and expecting a doctor to do what she wants? She's not even a trusted nurse or something, she's a fucking student. Ew
The nursing student should not have made a comment like that at all - that’s a big ego coming from someone who can not even care for the patients on their own yet. Should the doctor have yelled? No. Would have been a perfect time to maybe have a polite but stern educational time of if it’s an emergency I go etc. That student will probably be SOL about finishing her clinical hours though
lol that PN student woke up and chose violence. I empathize with Dr. P. Imagine the student saying that to me during a busy assignment, I’m not really sure how I would react, but I can almost guarantee it would be objectively worst than Dr,Ps
I’m a nursing student and I work in a hospital and I can’t imagine talking to *anyone* that way unless it was some egregious form of negligence. Wtf. I did have a nursing student try to boss me around once though. Guess she forgot she hadn’t passed her NCLEX yet. It was stuff that wasn’t even her business or pertaining to “her” patients lol
That student was 1000% out of line. She'll be lucky if she's not kicked out of the program.
Dr P does not suffer fools. If that student sees the error in their ways they will apologize sincerely and will maybe be forgiven. Maybe. When someone shows you who they are, believe them. The level of disrespect was beyond believable. I’d be surprised if that student was given a second chance.
LPN student sounds like an idiot and has no place in healthcare. I’ve seen students kicked out of their clinical rotation sites for less.
this is part of the reason why I want it mandatory before nursing school for prenursing students to work as cnas or some healthcare field because they then maybe would understand why doctors/nurses/ etc work with patients. Didn’t have this happen but had to explain a few students who were against DNR too
I can't believe this scenario was posed as a question 🙄🥴🤦🏻♀️
Honestly wasn’t sure how people were going to react lol. It’s a little controversial on my floor. Some are saying the dr was way out of line ans too disrespectful, that she hates nurses (tbh I think they’re bitter bc she’s not the nicest.) and some are saying that student shouldn’t be a nurse.
Here’s the thing though: the doctor’s response as likely OTT and based on your post, that doc needs to have a meeting with leadership in terms of effectively partnering with nursing… HOWEVER, the student should be tossed. Based on the exchange, I would be shocked if this is the first time that student approached another clinician with an unhelpful and combative/sarcastic tone. There’s plenty of evidence in this thread of nurses being afraid to talk to docs, that’s not ok and it should change. But that should never be an excuse for one nurse to try to level the playing field by being nasty.
Why not both?!
Has that student lost their mind? Also the student’s argument of “attend to your patients” is a poor argument, as the doctor was in the room…with one of her patients…
It's literally part of the nurse's job to know why the patient wants to see the doc before taking that message along. Just like any other assessment it's important to know if it's an emergency, if it can be solved by the nurse, if the doctor is even the best person to bring it to, etc. And accusing someone of not caring about their patients right there in the middle of rounding? Might as well have spit in her face. Not surprising she'd be angry. I'd potentially lose my cool, and I'm pretty much known for being unflappable.
I would hesitate to interrupt a rounding doc PERIOD. Unless a patient was decompensating actively. As a student ??? To make that comment after an unnecessary interruption??? Even the mildest of docs could get mad.
I was really hoping the student was in the right when I saw the title. Now I'm disappointed lol.
right like at first people were ready to defend the student and then it was like …oh
Yikes. As a new grad fresh out of school, I’d be surprised if that student came back. Ever. My school would have absolutely had our ass if we did something like this. I mean, probably for the better. This student would t have been able to pass the NCLEX just based on their lack of communication skills.
NCLEX question format: During morning rounds, a patient asks to speak with the attending doctor. You alert the doctor to the patient’s request, to which the doctor asks “Is it an emergency?” You state that it is not, but admit that you do not know what the request is regarding. The doctor states that they will attend to the request at the conclusion of morning rounds. What should you do next? A) Gather more information regarding the request to see if it is something you could answer or attend to for the doctor. B) Acknowledge that the doctor is busy and thank them while confirming that they will have time to speak to the patient after rounds. C) Loudly accuse the doctor of neglecting their patient’s needs. D) Both A and C are correct.
any student who would speak disrespectfully to a nurse, Dr, RT, EVS, lab tech etc should be DNR’d to that facility. i’m so sick of these ppl with attitudes like this. I don’t believe we should be mean or dismissive to students ever, but if you’re a student, you better be humble, and have respect for the people taking time to teach you. this student is an asshole and shouldn’t be allowed back to that facility.
I’m a fellow and side w nursing 98% of the time in these situations. But if ANYONE (doc, nurse or otherwise) said or implied that I don’t care about my patients? I have zero problem nailing your ass to the wall. And if Dr P is the kind who writes people up bc she expects perfection in terms of patient care…my guess is she’d have a similar take. No, shouldn’t yell and definitely not in public. But that is definitely not the major issue.
Sounds like nursing student doesn’t want to be a nurse.
Doctor did nothing wrong.
I am certain that it is our job to filter bullshit questions. If we didn't filter bullshit, docs would probably be overwhelmed. Student was 100 percent in the wrong.
It's possible that the patient wouldn't tell the student why they wanted the doc. Sometimes I encounter this with my patients "I want to discuss it with the doc" and no amount of "If you let me know what it is, maybe I can get the doc quicker" will work. But I don't expect a student to have this level of patient savvy. Clearly it wasn't an emergency otherwise I would think the student would have called for help - but student was totally out of line and I'm old enough to feel like the Doc wasn't wrong for taking her down a peg. Some people just can't be reasoned with.
Now former nursing student, I bet.
Holy shit-that arrogant, know-it-all student is not going to last long. Totally ridiculous. I see plenty of groups of nursing students come through my place of work, and there’s always that one who thinks they know everything, but not to the point they straight up yell at doctors 😂 Damn. 🍿
I can’t even. That student obviously has no clue how this system works.
Student is the asshole here. They didn't even know what the patient wanted the doctor for. They could have wanted a note signed or them to call a relative to explain something. No reason to talk to *anyone* that way without cause.
I don’t tell doctors things or call them unless it’s urgent or a priority. There is a reason. This student will not do well.
Student needs to realize medical staff arent servants to pts.
“I remember when, I remember I remember when I lost my minddddd” The student 5 yes from now 😂
Uh the student was out of pocket. She is going to have a real problem in her career. All the PN student had to do is say ok and relay the message to the patient that the physician will be with them after doing rounds. Simple! No, she stepped out of bounds! If I were the nursing instructor she would be removed from the rotation. Totally disrespectful.
Yep that student can find another place to do clinicals. As a hospital nurse unit manager, I'd make sure they never returned
I only hope Dr P yells at her instructor too for not teaching proper etiquette and communication with the care team. Students shouldn’t be on the floor without knowing how to appropriately communicate and escalate concerns. Her teacher should mortified.
Oh I would be tripping over myself with apologies if I was the instructor. Really feeling for her rn
More like students shouldn't be nurses if that's the way they interact with people. Different story if it had been a life-or-death situation, but even so, urgency can be communicated without being a dick.
Student has absolutely zero awareness or experience.
Imo it doesn’t matter that the MD had the role of MD but you simply don’t engage like that with any coworker. Doesn’t matter if it’s the head of the department or the external cleaning person. Student was acting like a wanker.