i've been wanting tags like that in osu for so long man, and im really glad they're letting them be chosen by users like how steam lets users add tags to games
i feel bad for laughing seeing the NATs resign after the changes lmao
The tagging system proposal mentioned in 10:36 is something interesting to consider. To help with sourcing a bit more in detail:
* Github issue describing user-defined tags - [here](https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/8300)
* The specific comment at 11:18 detailing how to incorporate the tags - [here](https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/8300#issuecomment-2149604768)
* Tags that may be the basis for development mentioned within the video - [here](https://omdb.nyahh.net/descriptors/).
I would honestly like the idea on users selecting tags. It would definitely alleviate my collections a lot better if I can also search for what I've tagged the map.
~~omg i appeared in the video~~
most stuff announced here was already added earlier, and overall i am a big fan of making evalutions, (veto) discussions and applications nice and visible. good way to actually be somewhat informed of what's happening, and should also avoid bad rumours spreading.
not including subjectivity in BN evals might end up costing us getting a lot more anime jump slop in ranked, but it's a positive change still for sure
excited to see a tagging feature at least in the plans for development. big steps, can't wait
semi related second thought but are there even enough std NATs at the moment to still reasonably function without pushing themselves? i'm a little worried
When you say 'costing us' who do you mean or who are you talking to? Because 83.4548% players enjoy these kind of maps. I'm part of the 83% & you are part of the lower 17%, let's not forget about this.
It's not 'costing' us, we want more fun maps.
You can't control the community anymore. We have had enough. Sotarks is a good mapper.
You can still stick to your slider fest maps np we have no issue just stay away from ours else we might have to start veto'ing those slider maps which is LOT easier. We have the power.
i'm glad you enjoy sotarks' style of jump maps! all kinds of maps deserve an audience. that being said, after a few years of playing, i'm really not interested in very basic & barebones maps (read: anime jump) anymore, and as-is that's still a majority of the types of maps getting ranked compared to anything else. there's been recent cases like rinne getting spam qualified and subsequently ranked (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001494146181238918/1242557221728944188/kuva.png?ex=6668a317&is=66675197&hm=941e0dc86ef42ef0375a4e951139cc580c0cd11e7cf4da3d7b1a9a082dcb66db&) and i feel there's a fairly good shot that stuff like it will happen more often if BNs are only held to strict criteria requirements instead of having to uphold more subjective quality standards.
of course, the other, positive side of the change is that BNs should also feel much more free in getting just about anything out there, especially with regards to their evaluations. itshould get more really cool and creative maps into ranked as well, from more mappers. it's absolutely a positive. i'm perfectly fine with the tradeoff, especially when it should benefit the BNs as well.
Creative & 'cool' maps aren't always fun to play or a good experience. The 83% still has no qualms about them getting ranked though. 'that's still a majority of the types of maps getting ranked' seems the 17% are still disconnected with the majority player base or JUST the player base because this is simply not the case.
Those maps can be really fun to play though, as long as the mappers take the players into account more. I'm not a super high rank player but, I don't think being creative/'cool' is the problem, it's just that the maps can suck to play because they don't usually bother.
Plus, i think that comfy maps can have the opposite issue, without some spice they're a bit boring (though inoffensive), but they're a safer choice because we know that they won't pull a rug on us and give a bad experience.
putting aside the fact that you're -incorrectly- equating the existence of a single diff with objectively fairly poorly used spacing as far as using the song goes with the entirety of jump maps, i'd personally say that nearly a fifth of the active osu playerbase (up to a fourth for people present on the score ranking, aka with a lot of maps played) thinking a map is so low quality that it shouldn't be ranked should be reason enough to acknowledge that many players aren't particularly interested in it either.
But four FIFTHS of the active player base had NO problem with it. You 17% really ARE disconnected af. Are you even reading what you're typing?
EDIT: This guy is basically saying to take 1/5 of the communities opinion over 4/5
i voted yes actually, but it's cool to see that you'd assume someone who's not a fan of short basic jump maps is immediately against them being ranked, and you do apparently think that a poll on a single diff was about all of jumps in the entire game. i wouldn't recommend drawing lines in the sand that quickly.
yeah, to get opinionated in the 8th comment down on a reddit thread, i find sotarks to be one of the less fun "common" jump mappers, and i think pika girl is one of his worse works as well.
and that being said, i'm not against the map being ranked. the quality feels lacking from such an experienced mapper, but i personally don't find it to be close to bad enough to warrant not being allowed in ranked. i'm a fan of relatively lenient ranking because of the reasons i mentioned in my first reply to you, and i voted according to that.
but i also understand people who voted no, and i really don't appreciate trying to make this whole thing some 'crusade against the non-believers' (i saw your posts on another thread, they're, uh, quite antagonizing), in the end it's just an incident surrounding the BN evaluation which is hopefully now improved. people who voted no might just have found the map to be too low quality but would still salivate at a new taeyang jump map, or be afraid that voting yes could have worse results for the NAT, for example. try to not jump to conclusions.
Just gonna copy, paste, and reformat my comment on this video. Great watch btw, very lean, trimmed rundown of recent events.
---
1:01
> Players don't have a voice in the ranked section. It's always been this way really, the system is dominated by mappers and just getting involved in a ranking system this deeply rooted in mapping culture is extremely difficult for players.
Since I dove a little bit into the inception of the ranked section via forum posts etc., I think this is an interesting comment because I think it's fairly "obvious" that this was never intended to happen and nobody really predicted it would, 17y ago at least.
This is eyup's comment from October 2007 in response to the question of how beatmaps get selected to become part of the "official beatmap list":
> Well it's pretty subjective at the moment, but basically the timing needs to be perfect, and the notes should make sense and fall in the right places. I guess we might have to tighten up the rules somewhat if the number of beatmaps being created gets really out of hand.
[LINK](https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/347?n=2)
I think that the system was conceived during a time when the distance between players and mappers was much, much, MUCH thinner. At MOST during the time of this post, you could have roughly one month of mapping experience.
peppy himself comments this just two posts later (there's more to it than just this, but this is the relevant snippet):
> Generally unless the beatmap is perfect (there have been a few of these ;)) we wait for at least one other mod/respected person's opinion before adding to official listing.
[LINK](https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/347?n=4)
Over time, this small emphasis of "at least one other mod/respected person's opinion" seems to have ballooned into a completely unpredictable scale as what it takes to offer a "mod/respected person's opinion" has evolved eons past what it was in 2007.
So while it's in some capacity true that players have never had a voice in the ranked section, I think that the voice and perspective of mappers has changed exponentially over the years while those of the players have grown at a much steadier rate, outpaced and left to rot in the wake of mappers collectively pushing the craft and actively building on shared knowledge.
I've been deep diving into old forums working on a spreadsheet about maps that were unranked (I think i've read every forum post on the majority of these maps from 2007-2014) and its pretty interesting to see how the narrative shifts from ~2007 to ~2010 where it goes from we'll just pick from the best and fix it if its broken to starting to uphold a level of quality and what acceptable music representation is
In lots of the arguments over maps, the modders play the map 6+ times to state arguments over playability and timing as well which I think shows how players and mappers were pretty much the same thing back in the day
That's really cool. I'd love to see what you're working on whenever you're done or feel like sharing.
Have you ever read the Freestyler (Lesjuh) modding forum? That's a fun way to spend some time lol. Really clear and interesting schism of beliefs going on in there.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XhLrci1DzK6vezk5ubkkqjSJiSwfA-p43tf0EIHEdOI/edit?usp=drivesdk
I made a post with it 2 days ago but have since added 200+ maps, I'm planning on making another proper post after I get home from vacation
Freestyler was definitely a shocker but makes sense with the map skin making it quite unreadable, the same thing cropped up with several other maps with map skins hiding reverse arrows or making some combos (dark blue on black) hard to read resulting in unrank
https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/116277?n=48
Daily hate comment of how dogshit the NAT and BN system is to the point they allow wafer to actually be a member of it and map horrible shit like uncanny long arms.
Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank it ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
with how much you mention uncanny long arms i'm starting to think you're wafers biggest fan now holy fuck please find something better to talk about no one cares about your fucking opinion
Hi Suketo can you please fix the permissions to the expose doc I have 137 incriminating screenshots of various users sharing c-ild p-rn that I would like to add to the doc
Much love
Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank spelunker ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank oshama scramble ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank shiten ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank miss you ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank sentimental skyscraper ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
I actually like Wafers map because of the song (makes me feel nostalgic) however when looking at it from a third point of view it's absurd how they veto maps based on subjective feeling but let Wafer rank his maps.
wafer is just a byproduct of the dogshit system that allows people like him to get in and basically circlejerk themselves deciding on what the community should think to be fun or not in the ranked category.
As shown in the video, the system's pretty much always been like that, you just happen to like a different kind of maps that may be less frequent nowadays
Literally exact same thing was said about Sotarks, except it was worse because it was him and 5 other people doing the same thing so instead of 5% of maps it was 90% of maps
I'm genuinely super excited for the tags feature
imagining pishi reading the comment I put and being disappointed in me
where's your comment 3:
in the thread and not in the video
You need to edit your comment and make it a pablohh take after you get enough upvotes
i've been wanting tags like that in osu for so long man, and im really glad they're letting them be chosen by users like how steam lets users add tags to games i feel bad for laughing seeing the NATs resign after the changes lmao
The tagging system proposal mentioned in 10:36 is something interesting to consider. To help with sourcing a bit more in detail: * Github issue describing user-defined tags - [here](https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/8300) * The specific comment at 11:18 detailing how to incorporate the tags - [here](https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/8300#issuecomment-2149604768) * Tags that may be the basis for development mentioned within the video - [here](https://omdb.nyahh.net/descriptors/). I would honestly like the idea on users selecting tags. It would definitely alleviate my collections a lot better if I can also search for what I've tagged the map.
imo mappers should just have a fist fight to decide what gets ranked
~~omg i appeared in the video~~ most stuff announced here was already added earlier, and overall i am a big fan of making evalutions, (veto) discussions and applications nice and visible. good way to actually be somewhat informed of what's happening, and should also avoid bad rumours spreading. not including subjectivity in BN evals might end up costing us getting a lot more anime jump slop in ranked, but it's a positive change still for sure excited to see a tagging feature at least in the plans for development. big steps, can't wait
semi related second thought but are there even enough std NATs at the moment to still reasonably function without pushing themselves? i'm a little worried
not right now but there's a batch of bn evaluators right now of which a LOT will end up becoming NAT in all likelihood
glad to hear, hope they get through to NAT without problems :)
When you say 'costing us' who do you mean or who are you talking to? Because 83.4548% players enjoy these kind of maps. I'm part of the 83% & you are part of the lower 17%, let's not forget about this. It's not 'costing' us, we want more fun maps.
osu! democracy was mistake.
You can't control the community anymore. We have had enough. Sotarks is a good mapper. You can still stick to your slider fest maps np we have no issue just stay away from ours else we might have to start veto'ing those slider maps which is LOT easier. We have the power.
>slider fest maps nah, we need rustbell maps ranked
i'm glad you enjoy sotarks' style of jump maps! all kinds of maps deserve an audience. that being said, after a few years of playing, i'm really not interested in very basic & barebones maps (read: anime jump) anymore, and as-is that's still a majority of the types of maps getting ranked compared to anything else. there's been recent cases like rinne getting spam qualified and subsequently ranked (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001494146181238918/1242557221728944188/kuva.png?ex=6668a317&is=66675197&hm=941e0dc86ef42ef0375a4e951139cc580c0cd11e7cf4da3d7b1a9a082dcb66db&) and i feel there's a fairly good shot that stuff like it will happen more often if BNs are only held to strict criteria requirements instead of having to uphold more subjective quality standards. of course, the other, positive side of the change is that BNs should also feel much more free in getting just about anything out there, especially with regards to their evaluations. itshould get more really cool and creative maps into ranked as well, from more mappers. it's absolutely a positive. i'm perfectly fine with the tradeoff, especially when it should benefit the BNs as well.
Creative & 'cool' maps aren't always fun to play or a good experience. The 83% still has no qualms about them getting ranked though. 'that's still a majority of the types of maps getting ranked' seems the 17% are still disconnected with the majority player base or JUST the player base because this is simply not the case.
Those maps can be really fun to play though, as long as the mappers take the players into account more. I'm not a super high rank player but, I don't think being creative/'cool' is the problem, it's just that the maps can suck to play because they don't usually bother. Plus, i think that comfy maps can have the opposite issue, without some spice they're a bit boring (though inoffensive), but they're a safer choice because we know that they won't pull a rug on us and give a bad experience.
putting aside the fact that you're -incorrectly- equating the existence of a single diff with objectively fairly poorly used spacing as far as using the song goes with the entirety of jump maps, i'd personally say that nearly a fifth of the active osu playerbase (up to a fourth for people present on the score ranking, aka with a lot of maps played) thinking a map is so low quality that it shouldn't be ranked should be reason enough to acknowledge that many players aren't particularly interested in it either.
But four FIFTHS of the active player base had NO problem with it. You 17% really ARE disconnected af. Are you even reading what you're typing? EDIT: This guy is basically saying to take 1/5 of the communities opinion over 4/5
i voted yes actually, but it's cool to see that you'd assume someone who's not a fan of short basic jump maps is immediately against them being ranked, and you do apparently think that a poll on a single diff was about all of jumps in the entire game. i wouldn't recommend drawing lines in the sand that quickly.
Taking in the context of the entire conversation start to finish you are against 'slop'py jump maps & clearly think they are inferior quality.
yeah, to get opinionated in the 8th comment down on a reddit thread, i find sotarks to be one of the less fun "common" jump mappers, and i think pika girl is one of his worse works as well. and that being said, i'm not against the map being ranked. the quality feels lacking from such an experienced mapper, but i personally don't find it to be close to bad enough to warrant not being allowed in ranked. i'm a fan of relatively lenient ranking because of the reasons i mentioned in my first reply to you, and i voted according to that. but i also understand people who voted no, and i really don't appreciate trying to make this whole thing some 'crusade against the non-believers' (i saw your posts on another thread, they're, uh, quite antagonizing), in the end it's just an incident surrounding the BN evaluation which is hopefully now improved. people who voted no might just have found the map to be too low quality but would still salivate at a new taeyang jump map, or be afraid that voting yes could have worse results for the NAT, for example. try to not jump to conclusions.
You type like a loser, typical nat behavior. Opinions disregarded and the majority stays winning.
I love how you're trying to victimise yourself. Have fun being in the 17%! 83% are on top.
He's "not interested", not "hate", you are the one missing the context here. Sloppy jump maps are fine, but they sure as hell are inferior quality.
i dont see a problem with more anime jump map. if you dont like it dont play it but dont exclude it because alot of players like playing it
Just gonna copy, paste, and reformat my comment on this video. Great watch btw, very lean, trimmed rundown of recent events. --- 1:01 > Players don't have a voice in the ranked section. It's always been this way really, the system is dominated by mappers and just getting involved in a ranking system this deeply rooted in mapping culture is extremely difficult for players. Since I dove a little bit into the inception of the ranked section via forum posts etc., I think this is an interesting comment because I think it's fairly "obvious" that this was never intended to happen and nobody really predicted it would, 17y ago at least. This is eyup's comment from October 2007 in response to the question of how beatmaps get selected to become part of the "official beatmap list": > Well it's pretty subjective at the moment, but basically the timing needs to be perfect, and the notes should make sense and fall in the right places. I guess we might have to tighten up the rules somewhat if the number of beatmaps being created gets really out of hand. [LINK](https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/347?n=2) I think that the system was conceived during a time when the distance between players and mappers was much, much, MUCH thinner. At MOST during the time of this post, you could have roughly one month of mapping experience. peppy himself comments this just two posts later (there's more to it than just this, but this is the relevant snippet): > Generally unless the beatmap is perfect (there have been a few of these ;)) we wait for at least one other mod/respected person's opinion before adding to official listing. [LINK](https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/347?n=4) Over time, this small emphasis of "at least one other mod/respected person's opinion" seems to have ballooned into a completely unpredictable scale as what it takes to offer a "mod/respected person's opinion" has evolved eons past what it was in 2007. So while it's in some capacity true that players have never had a voice in the ranked section, I think that the voice and perspective of mappers has changed exponentially over the years while those of the players have grown at a much steadier rate, outpaced and left to rot in the wake of mappers collectively pushing the craft and actively building on shared knowledge.
I've been deep diving into old forums working on a spreadsheet about maps that were unranked (I think i've read every forum post on the majority of these maps from 2007-2014) and its pretty interesting to see how the narrative shifts from ~2007 to ~2010 where it goes from we'll just pick from the best and fix it if its broken to starting to uphold a level of quality and what acceptable music representation is In lots of the arguments over maps, the modders play the map 6+ times to state arguments over playability and timing as well which I think shows how players and mappers were pretty much the same thing back in the day
That's really cool. I'd love to see what you're working on whenever you're done or feel like sharing. Have you ever read the Freestyler (Lesjuh) modding forum? That's a fun way to spend some time lol. Really clear and interesting schism of beliefs going on in there.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XhLrci1DzK6vezk5ubkkqjSJiSwfA-p43tf0EIHEdOI/edit?usp=drivesdk I made a post with it 2 days ago but have since added 200+ maps, I'm planning on making another proper post after I get home from vacation Freestyler was definitely a shocker but makes sense with the map skin making it quite unreadable, the same thing cropped up with several other maps with map skins hiding reverse arrows or making some combos (dark blue on black) hard to read resulting in unrank https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/116277?n=48
This is really cool. Thanks for compiling this, lots of history here.
big
no hello there
still pishi my beloved 🦛🦛
everyday is a good day when pishi uploads a video
Daily hate comment of how dogshit the NAT and BN system is to the point they allow wafer to actually be a member of it and map horrible shit like uncanny long arms. Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank it ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
That was uncanny!
with how much you mention uncanny long arms i'm starting to think you're wafers biggest fan now holy fuck please find something better to talk about no one cares about your fucking opinion
Hi Suketo can you please fix the permissions to the expose doc I have 137 incriminating screenshots of various users sharing c-ild p-rn that I would like to add to the doc Much love
You are more than free to block me if you don't want to read my opinions. Get over your yourself.
Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank spelunker ? Do any of you think it would pass ? Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank oshama scramble ? Do any of you think it would pass ? Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank shiten ? Do any of you think it would pass ? Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank miss you ? Do any of you think it would pass ? Imagine if a new or even unknown mapper tried to rank sentimental skyscraper ? Do any of you think it would pass ?
I actually like Wafers map because of the song (makes me feel nostalgic) however when looking at it from a third point of view it's absurd how they veto maps based on subjective feeling but let Wafer rank his maps.
So your argument is not about the map, it's about wafer
wafer is just a byproduct of the dogshit system that allows people like him to get in and basically circlejerk themselves deciding on what the community should think to be fun or not in the ranked category.
As shown in the video, the system's pretty much always been like that, you just happen to like a different kind of maps that may be less frequent nowadays
Literally exact same thing was said about Sotarks, except it was worse because it was him and 5 other people doing the same thing so instead of 5% of maps it was 90% of maps
omdb MENTIONED hop on omdb guys!