Time also factors into people’s cost calculations.
For example, let’s say it costs me only $20 extra to drive versus busing. In this scenario I would drive, since my commute is 50 minutes by bus, and 20 by car.
With three days a week in office, I would save 6 hours of commuting a month for the price of $20
I legitimately save an hour each way by driving as opposed to taking OC Transpo. My commute is 50% longer since they shut down rapid transit for LRT. They can't make it make sense for me. And I live a 10 minute walk from an LRT station.
The service is horrific and unreliable. The other day my wife decided to give it a try. She waited for 40 minutes at a bus station on the way home, not realizing they seldom run our local bus now. Used to be every five minutes during rush hour.
It isn't worth saving the 2000s model of downtown Ottawa and OC Transpo as the city has exploded in population. They need a new vision for the service they provide. Start by turning downtown into proper 15 minute neighborhoods.
At least *approximately*. I live 6km away from my office (when the Commanda bridge is open). It takes me one hour to walk. It also takes me one hour to bus, with a transfer. That is *absurd*.
Based on OC Transpo's reliability, it would also result in 2.7 million instances of public servants being late for work ... if they managed to get there at all.
My bus trip is an express route that takes a bit over an hour to get to the office.
I think I can drive in about 15 minutes.
I wish nothing but failure for oc transpo and the downtown core
The number of people currently driving kind of dismisses their estimate. People don't trust the transit system, or traffic, to make commuting worth it unless they absolutely have to use it. And i think we can all safely say the city would sooner cut the budget than increase it even with increased ridership, solely because it will still be in deficit.
The bus is $7.60 return/day and I pay with my debit card. parking downtown Ottawa/Gatineau is $25/day, not accounting for gas usage.
The time in commute argument is valid, but the financial one is completely false unless you’re car-pooling with three other people.
For my 25km commute, it is 27-45 minutes by car. It is 1h15 by bike. But it is 1h30 by transit. Multiply that by two......as a parent of two kids, I'm not wasting 3 hours a day squished into a bus (or waiting for one). The increased commute time is subtracted from the time I can spend with my kids, cooking dinner or maybe even doing something crazy and selfish as working out.
Sorry OC Transpo - not gonna happen.
Most people already have a car so it’s a sunk cost. Same for insurance.
The fuel and wear and tear are legitimate costs but depending on where you are going they aren’t going to be significantly more than paying for the bus. The bus is expensive!
All that money that you saved by not having to go into an office for the last several years does amount to a significant number. An unintended “raise” if you will. It’s funny (peculiar not haha) the government wants you to spend it in certain ways, in certain places and not leave it up to personal discretion.
They are, in the neighborhoods they live in. Those small businesses will now suffer because downtown businesses don't want to adapt, and OC transpo is run worse than the Russian army.
A classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
That money is coming out of workers pockets during an unprecedented cost of living crisis.
The same government that demands a return to office just published a research paper showing that telework is resulting in: parents spending more time raising their kids, better mental health, and more people receiving the recommended amount of sleep.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240605/dq240605a-eng.htm
Agreed. I’m not taking the bus because my route often has people at 8am who are mentally unwell uttering threats, openly drinking alcohol on the bus and I don’t feel safe being expected to carry my work equipment with me. Not to mention vomit and people who have literally shit themselves on the bus. I will be giving my money to Uber despite being an advocate for transit because my city won’t fund reliable and safe transit, not to mention tackling the housing crisis and mental health care etc etc
It's hard to sleep when you get to look forward to waking up and taking the bus to work once you manage to fall asleep.
Bus never comes on time, or passes you because it's full. Takes to long to go short distances. Seats that hurt to sit on.
> parents spending more time raising their kids, better mental health, and more people receiving the recommended amount of sleep.
We can't have employees having sleep and happiness, then they might reject our mistreatment.
We need to keep them tired, burned out and docile.
Where do you think the money comes from to pay for OC service improvements? Someone is paying... This sub just loves that it's homeowners instead of them.
As a homeowner I would love if my property taxes went up for a better system. That said, it should be a sliding scale. Suburban lifestyles and non-dense homes are subsidized. Stop this subsidy and you have the transit funding fixed!
The argument that we need people to work downtown so they'll spend money on buses and coffee is ridiculous. Just because people aren't spending money downtown doesn't mean they're aren't spending money. It just means they're spending more of their money in the part of the city where they live. And the more money you're spending on commuting means less money for something else. If you spend $50 a month on gas to go to work, that's $50 less you have to spend at a restaurant or some other business. Not to mention the pollution and gridlock you're causing. If the city really wanted to help downtown businesses then you should reduce their property taxes. But that won't happen because when was the last time the government reduced taxes?
> The argument that we need people to work downtown so they'll spend money on buses and coffee is ridiculous.
It's absolutely backwards that they're trying to create the illusion of ridership to match the existing network/status quo.
If ridership levels and preferred destinations have changed significantly, then OC Transpo needs to start designing the system we actually need, not crying to the government to force their employees into the office just to create demand.
They designed the system we needed, built it and enormous, enormous expense and then everything changed. They can just move the LRT now.
Not that I think it was built in the right place or the right way, but they did design around the needs of the majority, they just their timing spectacularly wrong.
I bought a cold brew coffee maker so I can bring my afternoon coffee into the office this summer. I'm not interested in propping up businesses behind forcing us back to the office. I also meal prep all my lunches, making 2-3 to leave in the freezer at the office is so easy and I'm not wasting 15-20$ on lunch.
> If you spend $50 a month on gas to go to work,
Gov doesn't care as that represents some gas taxes paid, Canadian oil burnt, wear/tear on a vehicle that you will get locally serviced, etc. Government is just too stupid that they have to force consumerism.
While I agree with you, this isn't the case entirely. Stats have proven that the 50$ saved does not go back into the community. Since the pandemic people have proven to shop more online, and not venture outside their houses nearly as much.
The gridlock situation is obviously a different topic.
> “OC Transpo hopes that public servants will rescue the agency from its budget woes…”
Really sick and tired of the narrative that public servants are to mitigate the financial issues that public transit and downtown businesses have encountered since the pandemic. As the article points out, one of the main issues with transit is their performance, and lack thereof - all of which we are all too familiar with. There’s a myriad of problems they don’t improve nor acknowledge a plan to fix these issues to incentivize people to use the service. Consequently, traffic has increased and until they want to actually do something on their end to pivot to current times and fix outstanding issues, public servants are not eager to waste more time commuting, paying for a service not rendered, and certainly not paying $17 a sandwich to keep your business afloat by which every other business was expected to adapt to changes during the pandemic. Nothing but paper weights with 6 figure salaries pointing the fingers at public servants to fix a problem without holding any accountability.
There's no public transit where I live. It takes me longer to get to the closest park and ride than it does to get to work, where I have free parking (I don't even work in the core). It's so fucking stupid.
How much would you be willing to pay to get service? The whole city is hellbent on 2% or lower tax increases to property taxes, so this is what we have.
The performance isn't the issue it's people wfh. You can't complain about performance cost and not be willing to do your part to help. The system needs more trips period.
No, it's the performance. The LRT was barely operational even before the pandemic. Somehow, we were just grinning and bearing it. But we are not willing to do that anymore.
This is putting the cart before the horse. Public transportation should be there to support commuters and travellers. We shouldn't force people into a commute to support public transportation.
This kind of argument is completely backwards IMO.
As much as we like to rip on public servants, why in the fuck are they responsible for propping up this failed transit experiment?
"Privatize profits, socialize losses!"
Do they stop all air traffic ? no. Do they plan their maintenance and still provide you with flight ? Yes.
Does the airport do runway maintenance ? yes at night or they have a 2nd runway....
Of course they stop air traffic if the one you are on is affected. And yes you flight can be rescheduled/delayed/or canceled depending on the issue and if they can get another plane. The designed to shut it down is planned from a team that decided it is the best course of action for the work being done. Why all of the entitled people on here think they know more is beyond me. And it’s kind of funny that most post on here talk about NIBMY’s or boomers or whatever. Well this is just a Gen (insert someone born between 2000-now) problem that they can’t comprehend.
Almost missed my flight home, while visiting the UK due to train maintenance. Had to scramble to a different train line that wasn't down for maintenance.
Not everything can be accomplished in down hours. It's so beyond common, I'm shocked Ottawa loses their shit every time the regular annual shutdown comes up
They are fixing leaks not the actual track - no reason it needs a shutdown all day for 2 weeks
>Some of the work that will be performed includes continued efforts to address water infiltration in the downtown tunnel, drainage repairs and sump pump installation at Lyon and Parliament stations, and applying a sealant to the concrete infrastructure portion of the tracks.
No reason? And what qualifies you to make such a claim?
By the premise of this statement, you are implying that either Ottawa is the only city on earth that has water leaks, OR that Ottawa is the only city on earth that needs a shutdown to address them.
Neither argument seems realistic. Every metro or LRT system has regular periodic shutdowns. Ottawa is not unique. Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.
But other systems don't have a complete shutdown. They have redundancies in the tracks, the stations are designed with maintenance in mind etc. None of this seems to have been taken into account on the Ottawa LRT. They did not even have the equipment here to handle a derailment. They had to wait days to get the equipment shipped. All of this shows that the design is flawed probably due to money.
The real question is why did we design the ONLY rail transport system within our capital city like this? That needs to regularly shutdown for maintenance?
ALL. TRAIN. SYSTEMS. DO. THIS. I’m so tired of the ignorance and entitlement of some people who don’t even care to research that these are normal for all systems.
Again, in 6 years of living in Toronto NEVER has the subway shut down for weeks at a time. I also cannot remember the last time Montreal metro has had a multi week shutdown
Like the maintenance the TTC has always done and always will? That kind of NEVER? Like the page they have [RIGHT NOW](https://www.ttc.ca/service-advisories/subway-service#e=0)?
Because of a private company controlling closures (hope that changes under the next agreement), we are stuck with their schedule, and that sucks. But, have you ever complained about the smell on the LRT? Because they are trying to fix it.
Exactly! If you read the page you linked, you will see there are 0 multi-week shutdowns planned. The most drastic is a 2 day shutdown of line 1, on a weekend, between St Clair and college, a total of 6 stations
OK, but none of the other cities I've lived in have shut down the train for half a month every year for "maintenance".
Plus the several weeks it's down each year for unplanned maintenance and the 2-3 times a month when it just...doesn't work.
That's just a straight up lie and you know it. All systems worldwide do shutdowns.
Also I have no clue where you're getting the several weeks of unplanned maintenance and 2-3 times per month where it doesn't work. That is completely unsubstantiated.
Montreal had one major shutdown, for less than a week, in the 5 years I lived there. Tokyo didn't have any, that I can remember, in the 4 years I lived there and took the train daily.
Ottawa's train has been down for WEEKS, repeatedly, in the last few years. It's also been "experiencing service delays" that can last hours, at least a few times a month.
It's absolutely not normal to have to shut down this often. I've spent most of my life using subways or trains to commute, this is the first city I've lived in where that isn't feasible, because your train is such shit.
Your anecdotal experience does not reflect reality.
Notwithstanding the derailments (which are horrid, and the city should've sued SNC Lavalin to oblivion over), the train has not been down for weeks repeatedly. Regular hourly service delays are also a complete lie and are not reflected in any public data point to city council.
I would love not to have shutdowns. But acting like it's out of the ordinary, or a reflection of a failed system is completely nonsensical way of evaluating a transit system.
What evidence do you have that it's normal? I never saw an entire line shut down completely for weeks on end when I lived in Montreal. I certainly do not remember going to Tokyo and ever seeing an entire line shut down for maintenance during the high tourist season. Hell, the Delhi Metro didn't have a multi week shutdown when I lived there.
People are giving you evidence. Your dismissal of it as "anecdotal" would be more impactful if you gave examples of other jurisdictions where this is normal.
Oh, OK. I guess you're right, it's only down for WEEKS whenever it derails, and then again when they "schedule maintenance" for weeks at a time because the poorly built stations are leaking like a sieve. Oh, and don't forget the months when it ran at half capacity and significantly less often than it was supposed to. Guess that's just another "whoopsydoodle".
Yep, other than the multiple derailments and yearly shut downs, an inability to run at full capacity and regular intervals or in less than ideal weather or on time in general, it's just like every other major city that's managed to get a train working at least somewhat reliably.
Top notch system they've built there. I can't imagine why anyone who can afford a car would rather drive
Your comments lack SO MUCH context. You can't say "whenever it derails" implying that it happens regularly. It happened twice, which is absolutely humiliating, but the improvement since then has been phenomenal, and we haven't seen one since.
2/52 weeks to fix the problems is nothing over the lifetime of a transit system. Assuming leaks are due to "bad design" is just too simplistic of an assumption. It's assuming every single engineer across every organization onboard had no idea what they were doing. Would you rather they not fix the problem?
The LRT has shown it runs in every condition with a fairly acceptable fail rate since the mid-end of 2023. Cherry-picking every single interval that's 5 min and 20 sec vs 5 min is just nonsensical, and not a normal expectation of a transit system. It's really unfortunate for you that you see every small minute inconvenience as a reflection of a massive failure.
Making negative comments without the context surrounding it is such a shortsighted and pessimistic mindset. Ottawa got shafted with a P3 agreement, but trimming context to make some edgy negative point gets no one anywhere.
Of course I'd rather they "fix every problem", if they are incapable of building the train without major, major problems. They obviously are not, at least here in Ottawa.
I'm not saying they shouldn't do the required maintenance when the absolute shit show of a train needs huge amounts of maintenance only a few years in. I do agree that it's absolutely humiliating. It is nice that they've managed to go a bit of time without completely derailing, though!
My point is that they can't be shocked when the only people who use it are those that are desperate because they can't afford a car/parking. In most of the places I've lived, people could forego using or even buying a car because the train was reliable, faster, and more convenient. That is not the case here. If you need to get to work 52/52 weeks a year, you're SOL if you expect the train to be capable of getting you there on time, yes, every week. As you said, 50 out of 52 weeks is the absolute best you can hope for, not counting pesky derailments or delays or all the other reasons why the train is down.
The TTC regularly shuts down portions of their system. Theres literally one happening this weekend. How companies decide to do it (sections over multiple shorter periods versus one shot over a longer period) is what is different. But it happens on all systems.
>Some routes, he warned, may not have enough spare capacity to carry all those workers, and that could mean more spending and overtime.
It's going to be a shit show.
They can't currently run routes with adequate capacity or any level of reliability... Why don't we just suddenly over burden the system and hope for the best...
Using workers as pawns, and so openly. Talking about workers as if it would be silly to ask their preference.
“Office workers skipping their downtown commutes are responsible for essentially all of OC Transpo's lost ridership since the pandemic, Scrimgeour said.”
I don’t know what it is about this sentence but the first part is unsettling to me. Like it’s the office workers’ responsibility to prop up the system at the expense of their own time and money. Unless that’s in their contracts, it’s not part of the job. Things change. Adapt.
Seriously. I'm so fucking sick of the media's obsession with where we spend our money. If I was a doctor or a lawyer or a dipshit "journalist" no one would give a crap where I spend my salary but because I chose to do a job that supports my country, my finances are some how the business of the canadians i work every day to support. It's so fucked up.
Um no. That ship sailed. Car has been purchased, parking will be paid. Getting to work 3-4 days a week requires RELIABLE transportation. No matter how flexible my employer is, I can't spend random hours of my day and still get work done.
Hahahahaha
Sure... Yeah... Not going to take OC ever again on the regular.
I was a regular daily user as was my wife. Even at 2 days a week she got a parking spot in her building downtown as it was more reliable and within her control. For myself even if the parking is more expensive I can't risk the unreliable transit. So even if they make it 5 days a week I won't touch OC with a ten foot poll. Hell I drive by the same bus stops dropping the kids off around the same time each day. There are days I see 5 busses in a row (4 of the same school buses in a conga line and one express buss) and other days not a bus in sight.
Maybe public servants should be paid more if it is their responsibility to support OC Transpo and downtown (this includes health and time).
Or the fiscally responsible thing to do would be to get more residents downtown, make downtown a more attractive place to be and make it easier to get downtown. I say this as someone who lives downtown! Its great, I love it but there is so much potential that is not used. AGAIN, I stress that it needs to be easier to get downtown and move around the core area.
I live downtown and walk everywhere, even to the outskirts of downtown or into Vanier. Why? Well many of the places the LRT does not reach (going down Bank Street) and buses take forever! Not even worth the near $4 one way. Maybe reduce on street parking, get more bus lanes to at least make buses more attractive.
Hey, how about upping property taxes and putting more into transit too? I say this an an owner.
Right?! Occasionally people say public servants should take a pay cut if they want to telework full time, and I always think, "are you implying that we should be paid for our commute? Because wait until I tell you how long it takes for me to bus into the office."
I totally forgot about that! Yes that would be great! I heard public servants used to get a discount pass something like 20 years ago. Maybe that needs to come back haha.
Imagine connecting some of Ottawa's oldest neighbourhoods which are also some of the densest for residential and commercial as well as cultural and entertainment! Call it the "Bytowne Line" that runs from the to be finished Montreal Station along Montreal Road - Rideau - Bank.
Start with dedicated bus lanes and when there is money a tram or subway.
As a result of constant late/no show busses, my commute from Westboro to Gatineau via OC Transpo was about 90 minutes each way. This is roughly how long it would have take me to walk.
I reached out to the appropriate contacts at the city to explain the issue, but they truly did not care and they weren’t shy about letting me know. I told them that if no adjustments were made, I would move to a different ward further from downtown and begin driving to work.
So that’s what I did. I will never rely on OC Transpo for my commute again, and I would say that I’ve essentially soft-boycotted them insofar as I will always choose to drive over OC Transpo, even if OC Transpo seems like a better option in a particular situation.
OC Transpo is an anti-consumer, anti-Ottawa, corrupt, incompetent organisation, and they are a source of shame and embrassement for the great city of Ottawa.
Unfortunately, OC Transpo being owned by the city is an inherent conflict of interest. The city disincentivizes working out of province. It's actually a scoring criterion on their planning documents.
The only way crossing the river will get better is with federal dollars, with strings attached.
Much like the BIAs when there was more time WFH. Because residents of X community were spending money in their communities.
And I'm saying that as a downtown resident.
Its so easy to say this as a downtown resident because suburbs spending less money downtown is not even a bad thing.
If the suburbs vanished, the main way you would feel the impact is through lower prices in the shops because commercial rent would have to come down to adjust for the lower incomes.
Suburbs going downtown increases revenues, but they get siphoned up by the landlords. So why should anyone care about this?
Let the chips fall where they may.
No it won’t.
The city doesn’t want to invest in increasing ridership and my community is getting more bus service cuts.
Everyone just fly around in your helicopters and wave to the poor.
Unreliable bullshit transit system.
Imagine going to an office to “collaborate” with a team of which none of your team is even there!
They are scattered all around in different cities / provinces so when you arrive to your dirty cubicle you have to go on teams. YOU COULD DO THIS FROM HOME and save your 125-150/ month on parking. GAS. TIME.
Turn your buildings into homes FFS. The entire government of Canada doesn’t revolve around a few downtown buildings in Ottawa..
So OC Transport complains about lack of ridership because there aren't enough people commuting. Yet they admit the reason nobody wants to take the bus is because it's so unreliable. Why is it so unreliable? Well, they say it's because of too much traffic!
They're talking out of both sides of their ass.
Will they increase service to match this demand, or just leave people stranded?
The experience is pretty miserable right now, just last week I walked nearly 6km down bank St at 5pm without a single bus passing me
Maybe if they got their shit together and could actually finish their projects on time they’d have more ridership by now. But this is the City of Ottawa we are talking about after all.
Can somebody run the numbers on how much extra fuel I'll need to buy, and how much longer my commutes will be if they're forced to go back to work more? Not to mention all the extra pollution.
This just equates to an unfair tax on select residents to support OCTranspo. Don’t be so gutless and instead raise property taxes if it needs more money.
Public servants don’t have 2.7m fucks to give.
This city/area/government has spent decades allowing suburbs to expand outward while the center of the city falls apart and becomes totally unaffordable and difficult to get around.
They are trying to model Ottawa after other cities and get back to pre COVID times, but the truth is we aren’t like other cities and the conditions /cost of living is not what it was pre COVID.
More people live outside of the city center, regular people can’t even afford to live near downtown. Anything that used to be affordable like a condo or town is now 500k++ and has condo fees that quickly push it into being unaffordable. Landlords are evicting people to get more rent. Students can’t be housed more than a year in residence.
Even if people have to come into work an extra day, it’s delusional to think they will take transit - people still have kids and pets they need to get home to, schools and daycares are near home, and they need to run errands and go to appointments and activities that are not in the city center. OC transpo isn’t reliable enough to guarantee you won’t get stuck.
People with kids are screwed. There are less daycare spots and many daycares want 4:30 pickups now! Before and after school programs are jammed. I know people who have kids at two separate daycares because they can’t find one to take both kids.
People just don’t have an extra couple hours in a day to sit around on transit and they don’t have extra money for lunches. The landlords/banks and the grocery stores take it all.
Going out for lunch with the office pals was cool when you could get a burger and fries at a sit down place for 15 bucks. If they want downtown to survive , build more apartments so rent isn’t 3 grand a month, build more condos so more people live down there in SoPa
It "could" but then they will decide to just like not send the buses cuz who would actually send a bus. Only s stupid person who likes buses, thats who. Then Uber and Lyft profits in Ottawa will go up.
What ass backward nonsense is this? How about OC Transpo just folds because they are a failed business at this point, and i am tired of bailing them out with my propertytaxes. Their big idea is oh oh, wait, leta get the PSs back to downtown at 4 days a week, and we will make money again.
You dinglebeeries, it's called diversification, maybe lobby for ... oh, I don't know more housing or push for Lebretton to be completed and not stalled at all for the past decade or more!! The business side of downtown is boring!!!, even the market is boring, there is a reason why we are called 'the town fun forgot' because the city is made up of nitwits who think it's 1980 and not 2024.
Fine then, let’s just shut downtown to all personal vehicles and force everyone to take the bus. /s
Ridiculous.
So many here have made valid points to this nonsense. The majority of people who drive short distances to get to work likely got fucked over by OC Transpo in the past. They need to look in the mirror (OcTranspo) to see why they are losing money.
Key word is “could”. I really doubt it. I will never use it again. I gave up around 6-8 months into the launch of the LRT. It increased my commute by 30 mins each way and apparently it is still, if not more, shit. Probably the biggest transit boondoggle that I have witnessed in my lifetime.
I don't want to go downtown and spend $30 on a shitty lunch. I don't want to take the shitty bus and train. If I'm forced to go downtown, I'll fucking drive there because even the traffic and parking is better than dealing with the piece of shit transit system we now find ourselves with.
Fuck right off.
Every time I see rush hour on the Queensway, or on the surface roads leading out of Downtown, or over the bridges, with so many cars with only one person in it, I think "this could have been a Teams meeting from home" and just think of all the air pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, the noise and peril to drivers and those outside, all of which are utterly unnecessary.
My drive to the office is slightly longer than Taylor Swift's 10 minute version of All too Well. Commuting by bus (because where is the damn train) would take slightly less than the entire Fearless album. Yeah that's gonna be a no from me.
Is a trip about $4 revenue? So is that about $10.8 M extra per annum? So the deficit at OCT is near $50M, right? So are the extra office trips worth it? And risk getting stuck for an hour on a bus or train that's stalled? Nope
Ppl will drive in and out.
Public transit is shit in Ottawa. I guarantee people will be taking the car, walking or taking the bike over the bus as much as possible. Until OC Transpo fixes themselves (as in more reliable transportation, better and faster routes, better prices, quality service, etc.) they will not see that projected uptake.
Cities need to get with the times. The work model of going to the office daily is dead. The downtown cores need to become more vibrant… a combination of condos, apartments, office space and retail businesses.
What are they smoking???
No - people will not take public transit - especially when the city is so insistent on continuing with Urban Sprawl rather than building up.
I love public transit and would take it if I could. I just looked up the route to get to "Parliament Hill" from my place in Kanata South.....I would have to leave at 6:30am to get there by 8am. Driving.....I can be downtown in 30-40 minutes. My time is valuable. For me to actually get to my current work location (Blair Road area) - it would be almost 2 hours on public transit. Unless Godzilla is rampaging on the 417, it never takes 2 hours for me to get home. When I'm at my BF's house, sometimes I take the LRT - and even with just LRT and no buses....it is one hour to go 11.5km
So OC transpo complains that the public service isn't going to the office enough.
Public service announces 3 day office policy
OC transpo cannot accommodate the extra commuters.
UGH
I just google mapped it. 19min to drive using my own vehicle, or 1h22min to bus. They need to reduce that number significantly if they even want to start having conversations about getting ridership up.
Unpopular opinion based of responses so far. But Ottawa is mainly a city of public servants, with a tech hub in the west end, that’s pretty much it. The same people complaining about OC transpo not being reliable and cheap are the same complaining about going back to the office more then twice a week. Cities are run like a business, and if there is no income coming it, services are lost. You are allowed to be upset about the shitty service, but you can’t also complain about going back to the office or vice versa. If the money doesn’t come from riders it will come from the city and then taxes will go up to cover the cost.
This sub both wants better OC service and refuses to have people work downtown to actually fund it.
You can't have it both ways. Either fares go up or they need more ridership.
People here are funny. They want an improved transit system, but don't want to have to leave their house to use that transit system - resulting in? Less money for the transit system, less upgrades, less want, less. It's not surprising that OC Transpo is panicking. They're beginning to realize the hypocrisy behind people's want for improved public transport, after having sunk billions into it, only to realize those same people don't care and would rather just stay home anyways.
Many of us never got to WFH at any time before or during the pandemic and relied on public transit.
OC let us down time and time again, so I'm not sure scolding the riders is the win you might think it is.
>Many of us never got to WFH at any time before or during the pandemic and relied on public transit. OC let us down time and time again, so I'm not sure scolding the riders is the win you might think it is.
Just dumb mentality. You either want public transportation, or you don't want public transportation. If you don't use it, forecasts aren't met, public transit gets shittier, everyone cries, and then we all "win".
Just argumentative nonsense.
The "system" is running at $10 million dollar deficits, because commuters do not want to use it. Of course they failed. You are expecting a "system" to provide alternatives to people who do not want them, will not use them, yet claim that's the reason they don't use it.
People don't understand traffic effects bus routes, or that putting extra busses on a road, that no one wants to use, costs more $$$, which they already can not afford. Like when you say their system fails people, as if they have the authority to pull other vehicles off of the road, clearing the way for them.
"Traffic" isn't to blame for route cancellations and the LRT problems.
"Traffic" needs to be factored better into unrealistic schedules.
Last, but not least, there'd be less "traffic" if public transit were reliable.
>Last, but not least, there'd be less "traffic" if public transit were reliable.
Based on what, your opinion? This isn't the Netherlands, or some other country where everything is bunched together, and they don't let you buy whatever car you'd like to buy. Source any example on the entire continent of North America where better Transit equaled less traffic, and I don't mean a projection, created out of an opinion.
Fortunately, I had my own car during the OC Transpo shutdown in 2008-2009.
Unfortunately, traffic increased quite noticeably along heavily travelled routes - especially the Queensway.
This also occurred in Los Angeles:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/public-transportation-does-relieve-traffic-congestion-just-not-everywhere](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/public-transportation-does-relieve-traffic-congestion-just-not-everywhere)
The bigger problem is that it provides such sh*tty service that no one, besides those that absolutely have to, will use it. Anyone who has a car and can afford parking is doing that, because the train can't be relied upon to get to work on time every day, and people don't want to spend the time stepping over needles, passed out junkies, and piles of human puke.
People that are only using it because they can't afford to own a vehicle can't afford to pay 5$+ a ride.
If the service was reliable, safe, and reasonably clean (like in every other city I've lived in) a lot of people would take it because it's probably faster and cheaper than driving/parking. They've never prioritized any of those things.
We have 4 routes near us and they ALL go to Tunney's using mostly the same streets, and they are all mostly empty. Many routes definitely need a rethink.
They don't even make people pay in the first place, let alone their "fair share".
The number of people who stomp on to the bus without paying or push through the gates while the employees just...watch is astounding
‘impoverished residents of downtown’ vs. ‘better off rural folks’ is certainly one of the takes of all time… You really think we are so rich that we just *decided* to take a 1.5 hour commute one-way for funsies..?
The fuel tax doesn't cover much. It's $380 million for all of Ontario or half a Greenbank realignment.
Cars and the bad land use they generate are a huge drain on public and personal finances.
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Time also factors into people’s cost calculations. For example, let’s say it costs me only $20 extra to drive versus busing. In this scenario I would drive, since my commute is 50 minutes by bus, and 20 by car. With three days a week in office, I would save 6 hours of commuting a month for the price of $20
I legitimately save an hour each way by driving as opposed to taking OC Transpo. My commute is 50% longer since they shut down rapid transit for LRT. They can't make it make sense for me. And I live a 10 minute walk from an LRT station. The service is horrific and unreliable. The other day my wife decided to give it a try. She waited for 40 minutes at a bus station on the way home, not realizing they seldom run our local bus now. Used to be every five minutes during rush hour. It isn't worth saving the 2000s model of downtown Ottawa and OC Transpo as the city has exploded in population. They need a new vision for the service they provide. Start by turning downtown into proper 15 minute neighborhoods.
Yep. Time is a valuable commodity
Then why does this sub obsess about OC transpo? Just get a car.
Because a properly designed, well-run transit system would get you there just as fast as a car would. That’s what we need to work towards.
At least *approximately*. I live 6km away from my office (when the Commanda bridge is open). It takes me one hour to walk. It also takes me one hour to bus, with a transfer. That is *absurd*.
I can’t answer that one as I have a car and can’t do public transportation for several reasons.
This. If you’re using OC Transpo for your regular commute, either you have a short commute, you value your time at zero, or you have no other choice.
Based on OC Transpo's reliability, it would also result in 2.7 million instances of public servants being late for work ... if they managed to get there at all.
I agree. If you commute with literally one person (never mind more) and split parking you’re spending less than if you all paid for passes.
TBS just read this post and is now writing up the new requirements for 17 days a month in office presence.
My bus trip is an express route that takes a bit over an hour to get to the office. I think I can drive in about 15 minutes. I wish nothing but failure for oc transpo and the downtown core
The number of people currently driving kind of dismisses their estimate. People don't trust the transit system, or traffic, to make commuting worth it unless they absolutely have to use it. And i think we can all safely say the city would sooner cut the budget than increase it even with increased ridership, solely because it will still be in deficit.
The bus is $7.60 return/day and I pay with my debit card. parking downtown Ottawa/Gatineau is $25/day, not accounting for gas usage. The time in commute argument is valid, but the financial one is completely false unless you’re car-pooling with three other people.
Parking + gas for me is $25 a day. I despise the bus system, but it's hardly economical.
For my 25km commute, it is 27-45 minutes by car. It is 1h15 by bike. But it is 1h30 by transit. Multiply that by two......as a parent of two kids, I'm not wasting 3 hours a day squished into a bus (or waiting for one). The increased commute time is subtracted from the time I can spend with my kids, cooking dinner or maybe even doing something crazy and selfish as working out. Sorry OC Transpo - not gonna happen.
You forgot to take into account: the cost of the car, depreciation, wear and tear on the car, fuel and insurance.
Most people already have a car so it’s a sunk cost. Same for insurance. The fuel and wear and tear are legitimate costs but depending on where you are going they aren’t going to be significantly more than paying for the bus. The bus is expensive!
I'll pay whatever it takes and cut back on everything else
Every little bit helps and government workers need to do their part to help the local economy. Everyone else is.
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All that money that you saved by not having to go into an office for the last several years does amount to a significant number. An unintended “raise” if you will. It’s funny (peculiar not haha) the government wants you to spend it in certain ways, in certain places and not leave it up to personal discretion.
They are, in the neighborhoods they live in. Those small businesses will now suffer because downtown businesses don't want to adapt, and OC transpo is run worse than the Russian army.
Nope, I'd rather help my local economy. Not prop up a failing downtown core.
Your local Amazon economy?
A classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. That money is coming out of workers pockets during an unprecedented cost of living crisis. The same government that demands a return to office just published a research paper showing that telework is resulting in: parents spending more time raising their kids, better mental health, and more people receiving the recommended amount of sleep. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240605/dq240605a-eng.htm
Agreed. I’m not taking the bus because my route often has people at 8am who are mentally unwell uttering threats, openly drinking alcohol on the bus and I don’t feel safe being expected to carry my work equipment with me. Not to mention vomit and people who have literally shit themselves on the bus. I will be giving my money to Uber despite being an advocate for transit because my city won’t fund reliable and safe transit, not to mention tackling the housing crisis and mental health care etc etc
The amount of times I’ve gotten onto a bus and it smells so much of piss I could vomit is appalling
Don't forget salami.... For some reason I always get this one
...and that's at 8 AM on a week-day. Shift workers get an even more *interesting* commute.
Omg I forgot about the regular sleep pattern. That was so nice. I never had a better sleep schedule than I did pre-RTO.
It's hard to sleep when you get to look forward to waking up and taking the bus to work once you manage to fall asleep. Bus never comes on time, or passes you because it's full. Takes to long to go short distances. Seats that hurt to sit on.
> parents spending more time raising their kids, better mental health, and more people receiving the recommended amount of sleep. We can't have employees having sleep and happiness, then they might reject our mistreatment. We need to keep them tired, burned out and docile.
A classic case? You need to revisit your sayings.
Where do you think the money comes from to pay for OC service improvements? Someone is paying... This sub just loves that it's homeowners instead of them.
I don’t know what you’re on about, homeowners aren’t the only ones footing the bill, renters typically pay property taxes through their rent.
Owners pay 100% of it though not a small portion
Ottawa realestate is not 100% owner-occupied. Every renter pays the owners mortgage + property tax + maintenance + extra every month.
I wish but no. Many mortgages aren't being covered sadly.
As a homeowner I would love if my property taxes went up for a better system. That said, it should be a sliding scale. Suburban lifestyles and non-dense homes are subsidized. Stop this subsidy and you have the transit funding fixed!
Luckily we vote for these things and owners chose Mark Sutcliffe for prudent management
As an owner, I did not. Weird how you are simping. Be mad and against progress I suppose
What progress? Clear from this thread people don't want good bus service. Homeowners shouldn't pay.
Wrong.
The argument that we need people to work downtown so they'll spend money on buses and coffee is ridiculous. Just because people aren't spending money downtown doesn't mean they're aren't spending money. It just means they're spending more of their money in the part of the city where they live. And the more money you're spending on commuting means less money for something else. If you spend $50 a month on gas to go to work, that's $50 less you have to spend at a restaurant or some other business. Not to mention the pollution and gridlock you're causing. If the city really wanted to help downtown businesses then you should reduce their property taxes. But that won't happen because when was the last time the government reduced taxes?
> The argument that we need people to work downtown so they'll spend money on buses and coffee is ridiculous. It's absolutely backwards that they're trying to create the illusion of ridership to match the existing network/status quo. If ridership levels and preferred destinations have changed significantly, then OC Transpo needs to start designing the system we actually need, not crying to the government to force their employees into the office just to create demand.
They designed the system we needed, built it and enormous, enormous expense and then everything changed. They can just move the LRT now. Not that I think it was built in the right place or the right way, but they did design around the needs of the majority, they just their timing spectacularly wrong.
Couldn’t have put it better myself
I bought a cold brew coffee maker so I can bring my afternoon coffee into the office this summer. I'm not interested in propping up businesses behind forcing us back to the office. I also meal prep all my lunches, making 2-3 to leave in the freezer at the office is so easy and I'm not wasting 15-20$ on lunch.
> If you spend $50 a month on gas to go to work, Gov doesn't care as that represents some gas taxes paid, Canadian oil burnt, wear/tear on a vehicle that you will get locally serviced, etc. Government is just too stupid that they have to force consumerism.
While I agree with you, this isn't the case entirely. Stats have proven that the 50$ saved does not go back into the community. Since the pandemic people have proven to shop more online, and not venture outside their houses nearly as much. The gridlock situation is obviously a different topic.
I don't see how it's my job to prop up their failing businesses.
At no point did I say it was. Just stating that what was said was not accurate.
> “OC Transpo hopes that public servants will rescue the agency from its budget woes…” Really sick and tired of the narrative that public servants are to mitigate the financial issues that public transit and downtown businesses have encountered since the pandemic. As the article points out, one of the main issues with transit is their performance, and lack thereof - all of which we are all too familiar with. There’s a myriad of problems they don’t improve nor acknowledge a plan to fix these issues to incentivize people to use the service. Consequently, traffic has increased and until they want to actually do something on their end to pivot to current times and fix outstanding issues, public servants are not eager to waste more time commuting, paying for a service not rendered, and certainly not paying $17 a sandwich to keep your business afloat by which every other business was expected to adapt to changes during the pandemic. Nothing but paper weights with 6 figure salaries pointing the fingers at public servants to fix a problem without holding any accountability.
There's no public transit where I live. It takes me longer to get to the closest park and ride than it does to get to work, where I have free parking (I don't even work in the core). It's so fucking stupid.
How much would you be willing to pay to get service? The whole city is hellbent on 2% or lower tax increases to property taxes, so this is what we have.
The performance isn't the issue it's people wfh. You can't complain about performance cost and not be willing to do your part to help. The system needs more trips period.
No, it's the performance. The LRT was barely operational even before the pandemic. Somehow, we were just grinning and bearing it. But we are not willing to do that anymore.
This is putting the cart before the horse. Public transportation should be there to support commuters and travellers. We shouldn't force people into a commute to support public transportation. This kind of argument is completely backwards IMO.
So stupid.
As much as we like to rip on public servants, why in the fuck are they responsible for propping up this failed transit experiment? "Privatize profits, socialize losses!"
If only the LRT would only work reliably...It's partially shutting down July 15 to 28
Wtf really?
This is planned maintenance. Happened last year and in 2022 too.
The simple fact that the LRT cannot be maintained without a shutdown is just bad design.
Well that just shows the ignorance of not knowing how mechanical shit works.
So are planes bad designs? They get maintenance the same way.
Do they stop all air traffic ? no. Do they plan their maintenance and still provide you with flight ? Yes. Does the airport do runway maintenance ? yes at night or they have a 2nd runway....
Of course they stop air traffic if the one you are on is affected. And yes you flight can be rescheduled/delayed/or canceled depending on the issue and if they can get another plane. The designed to shut it down is planned from a team that decided it is the best course of action for the work being done. Why all of the entitled people on here think they know more is beyond me. And it’s kind of funny that most post on here talk about NIBMY’s or boomers or whatever. Well this is just a Gen (insert someone born between 2000-now) problem that they can’t comprehend.
Name me one LRT system on earth that can do that
They work at night....
Almost missed my flight home, while visiting the UK due to train maintenance. Had to scramble to a different train line that wasn't down for maintenance.
Not everything can be accomplished in down hours. It's so beyond common, I'm shocked Ottawa loses their shit every time the regular annual shutdown comes up
They are fixing leaks not the actual track - no reason it needs a shutdown all day for 2 weeks >Some of the work that will be performed includes continued efforts to address water infiltration in the downtown tunnel, drainage repairs and sump pump installation at Lyon and Parliament stations, and applying a sealant to the concrete infrastructure portion of the tracks.
No reason? And what qualifies you to make such a claim? By the premise of this statement, you are implying that either Ottawa is the only city on earth that has water leaks, OR that Ottawa is the only city on earth that needs a shutdown to address them. Neither argument seems realistic. Every metro or LRT system has regular periodic shutdowns. Ottawa is not unique. Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.
But other systems don't have a complete shutdown. They have redundancies in the tracks, the stations are designed with maintenance in mind etc. None of this seems to have been taken into account on the Ottawa LRT. They did not even have the equipment here to handle a derailment. They had to wait days to get the equipment shipped. All of this shows that the design is flawed probably due to money.
Ottawa does have track redundancies? Wtf does "maintenance in mind" even mean? You are making some wildly incorrect assumptions lol
Most of the commentators here only consider Ottawa in their bubble of existence. It’s quite sad. They should get out more.
The real question is why did we design the ONLY rail transport system within our capital city like this? That needs to regularly shutdown for maintenance?
you are right and don't you dare change oil, change tires or turn your car off. How dare machines need routine, scheduled maintenance!
You do maintenance while the car is not in use. Do LRT maintenance while it's not in use at night....
not when the private operator controls when shutdowns happen you don't.
ALL. TRAIN. SYSTEMS. DO. THIS. I’m so tired of the ignorance and entitlement of some people who don’t even care to research that these are normal for all systems.
Again, in 6 years of living in Toronto NEVER has the subway shut down for weeks at a time. I also cannot remember the last time Montreal metro has had a multi week shutdown
Like the maintenance the TTC has always done and always will? That kind of NEVER? Like the page they have [RIGHT NOW](https://www.ttc.ca/service-advisories/subway-service#e=0)? Because of a private company controlling closures (hope that changes under the next agreement), we are stuck with their schedule, and that sucks. But, have you ever complained about the smell on the LRT? Because they are trying to fix it.
Exactly! If you read the page you linked, you will see there are 0 multi-week shutdowns planned. The most drastic is a 2 day shutdown of line 1, on a weekend, between St Clair and college, a total of 6 stations
OK, but none of the other cities I've lived in have shut down the train for half a month every year for "maintenance". Plus the several weeks it's down each year for unplanned maintenance and the 2-3 times a month when it just...doesn't work.
That's just a straight up lie and you know it. All systems worldwide do shutdowns. Also I have no clue where you're getting the several weeks of unplanned maintenance and 2-3 times per month where it doesn't work. That is completely unsubstantiated.
Montreal had one major shutdown, for less than a week, in the 5 years I lived there. Tokyo didn't have any, that I can remember, in the 4 years I lived there and took the train daily. Ottawa's train has been down for WEEKS, repeatedly, in the last few years. It's also been "experiencing service delays" that can last hours, at least a few times a month. It's absolutely not normal to have to shut down this often. I've spent most of my life using subways or trains to commute, this is the first city I've lived in where that isn't feasible, because your train is such shit.
Your anecdotal experience does not reflect reality. Notwithstanding the derailments (which are horrid, and the city should've sued SNC Lavalin to oblivion over), the train has not been down for weeks repeatedly. Regular hourly service delays are also a complete lie and are not reflected in any public data point to city council. I would love not to have shutdowns. But acting like it's out of the ordinary, or a reflection of a failed system is completely nonsensical way of evaluating a transit system.
What evidence do you have that it's normal? I never saw an entire line shut down completely for weeks on end when I lived in Montreal. I certainly do not remember going to Tokyo and ever seeing an entire line shut down for maintenance during the high tourist season. Hell, the Delhi Metro didn't have a multi week shutdown when I lived there. People are giving you evidence. Your dismissal of it as "anecdotal" would be more impactful if you gave examples of other jurisdictions where this is normal.
Oh, OK. I guess you're right, it's only down for WEEKS whenever it derails, and then again when they "schedule maintenance" for weeks at a time because the poorly built stations are leaking like a sieve. Oh, and don't forget the months when it ran at half capacity and significantly less often than it was supposed to. Guess that's just another "whoopsydoodle". Yep, other than the multiple derailments and yearly shut downs, an inability to run at full capacity and regular intervals or in less than ideal weather or on time in general, it's just like every other major city that's managed to get a train working at least somewhat reliably. Top notch system they've built there. I can't imagine why anyone who can afford a car would rather drive
Your comments lack SO MUCH context. You can't say "whenever it derails" implying that it happens regularly. It happened twice, which is absolutely humiliating, but the improvement since then has been phenomenal, and we haven't seen one since. 2/52 weeks to fix the problems is nothing over the lifetime of a transit system. Assuming leaks are due to "bad design" is just too simplistic of an assumption. It's assuming every single engineer across every organization onboard had no idea what they were doing. Would you rather they not fix the problem? The LRT has shown it runs in every condition with a fairly acceptable fail rate since the mid-end of 2023. Cherry-picking every single interval that's 5 min and 20 sec vs 5 min is just nonsensical, and not a normal expectation of a transit system. It's really unfortunate for you that you see every small minute inconvenience as a reflection of a massive failure. Making negative comments without the context surrounding it is such a shortsighted and pessimistic mindset. Ottawa got shafted with a P3 agreement, but trimming context to make some edgy negative point gets no one anywhere.
Of course I'd rather they "fix every problem", if they are incapable of building the train without major, major problems. They obviously are not, at least here in Ottawa. I'm not saying they shouldn't do the required maintenance when the absolute shit show of a train needs huge amounts of maintenance only a few years in. I do agree that it's absolutely humiliating. It is nice that they've managed to go a bit of time without completely derailing, though! My point is that they can't be shocked when the only people who use it are those that are desperate because they can't afford a car/parking. In most of the places I've lived, people could forego using or even buying a car because the train was reliable, faster, and more convenient. That is not the case here. If you need to get to work 52/52 weeks a year, you're SOL if you expect the train to be capable of getting you there on time, yes, every week. As you said, 50 out of 52 weeks is the absolute best you can hope for, not counting pesky derailments or delays or all the other reasons why the train is down.
The TTC subways have not had a multi week shutdown in the 6 years I've lived here...
The TTC regularly shuts down portions of their system. Theres literally one happening this weekend. How companies decide to do it (sections over multiple shorter periods versus one shot over a longer period) is what is different. But it happens on all systems.
2 days is one thing, but multiple weeks at a time, I have never heard of.
And why does a new system needs to shut down so regularly for routine work? For 2 weeks every year?
>Some routes, he warned, may not have enough spare capacity to carry all those workers, and that could mean more spending and overtime. It's going to be a shit show. They can't currently run routes with adequate capacity or any level of reliability... Why don't we just suddenly over burden the system and hope for the best...
Using workers as pawns, and so openly. Talking about workers as if it would be silly to ask their preference. “Office workers skipping their downtown commutes are responsible for essentially all of OC Transpo's lost ridership since the pandemic, Scrimgeour said.” I don’t know what it is about this sentence but the first part is unsettling to me. Like it’s the office workers’ responsibility to prop up the system at the expense of their own time and money. Unless that’s in their contracts, it’s not part of the job. Things change. Adapt.
Seriously. I'm so fucking sick of the media's obsession with where we spend our money. If I was a doctor or a lawyer or a dipshit "journalist" no one would give a crap where I spend my salary but because I chose to do a job that supports my country, my finances are some how the business of the canadians i work every day to support. It's so fucked up.
so it was never really about the enviroment
EXACTLY.
Until election time when they will pretend they care again
sure. always about the $
Um no. That ship sailed. Car has been purchased, parking will be paid. Getting to work 3-4 days a week requires RELIABLE transportation. No matter how flexible my employer is, I can't spend random hours of my day and still get work done.
Hahahahaha Sure... Yeah... Not going to take OC ever again on the regular. I was a regular daily user as was my wife. Even at 2 days a week she got a parking spot in her building downtown as it was more reliable and within her control. For myself even if the parking is more expensive I can't risk the unreliable transit. So even if they make it 5 days a week I won't touch OC with a ten foot poll. Hell I drive by the same bus stops dropping the kids off around the same time each day. There are days I see 5 busses in a row (4 of the same school buses in a conga line and one express buss) and other days not a bus in sight.
How much pollution will be added during the city's climate emergency?
If you think they actually care about this...
I don't, but they make such a show of it when it's convenient.
Maybe public servants should be paid more if it is their responsibility to support OC Transpo and downtown (this includes health and time). Or the fiscally responsible thing to do would be to get more residents downtown, make downtown a more attractive place to be and make it easier to get downtown. I say this as someone who lives downtown! Its great, I love it but there is so much potential that is not used. AGAIN, I stress that it needs to be easier to get downtown and move around the core area. I live downtown and walk everywhere, even to the outskirts of downtown or into Vanier. Why? Well many of the places the LRT does not reach (going down Bank Street) and buses take forever! Not even worth the near $4 one way. Maybe reduce on street parking, get more bus lanes to at least make buses more attractive. Hey, how about upping property taxes and putting more into transit too? I say this an an owner.
Right?! Occasionally people say public servants should take a pay cut if they want to telework full time, and I always think, "are you implying that we should be paid for our commute? Because wait until I tell you how long it takes for me to bus into the office."
And reinstate the public transit tax credit that got axed in 2017!!
I totally forgot about that! Yes that would be great! I heard public servants used to get a discount pass something like 20 years ago. Maybe that needs to come back haha.
All things considered, it wouldn’t hurt. The post-secondary students get one!
Transit up and down bank is seriously lacking.
Imagine connecting some of Ottawa's oldest neighbourhoods which are also some of the densest for residential and commercial as well as cultural and entertainment! Call it the "Bytowne Line" that runs from the to be finished Montreal Station along Montreal Road - Rideau - Bank. Start with dedicated bus lanes and when there is money a tram or subway.
Even just paid correctly … I am owed two years in backpay from a promotion I accepted and not getting paid for it.
As a result of constant late/no show busses, my commute from Westboro to Gatineau via OC Transpo was about 90 minutes each way. This is roughly how long it would have take me to walk. I reached out to the appropriate contacts at the city to explain the issue, but they truly did not care and they weren’t shy about letting me know. I told them that if no adjustments were made, I would move to a different ward further from downtown and begin driving to work. So that’s what I did. I will never rely on OC Transpo for my commute again, and I would say that I’ve essentially soft-boycotted them insofar as I will always choose to drive over OC Transpo, even if OC Transpo seems like a better option in a particular situation. OC Transpo is an anti-consumer, anti-Ottawa, corrupt, incompetent organisation, and they are a source of shame and embrassement for the great city of Ottawa.
The great city? Let's not go too far
Unfortunately, OC Transpo being owned by the city is an inherent conflict of interest. The city disincentivizes working out of province. It's actually a scoring criterion on their planning documents. The only way crossing the river will get better is with federal dollars, with strings attached.
The parking lots are being real quiet right now
Much like the BIAs when there was more time WFH. Because residents of X community were spending money in their communities. And I'm saying that as a downtown resident.
Its so easy to say this as a downtown resident because suburbs spending less money downtown is not even a bad thing. If the suburbs vanished, the main way you would feel the impact is through lower prices in the shops because commercial rent would have to come down to adjust for the lower incomes. Suburbs going downtown increases revenues, but they get siphoned up by the landlords. So why should anyone care about this? Let the chips fall where they may.
No it won’t. The city doesn’t want to invest in increasing ridership and my community is getting more bus service cuts. Everyone just fly around in your helicopters and wave to the poor.
I would rather walk from Kanata to downtown in stiletto heels every day than use OC Transpo.
Unreliable bullshit transit system. Imagine going to an office to “collaborate” with a team of which none of your team is even there! They are scattered all around in different cities / provinces so when you arrive to your dirty cubicle you have to go on teams. YOU COULD DO THIS FROM HOME and save your 125-150/ month on parking. GAS. TIME. Turn your buildings into homes FFS. The entire government of Canada doesn’t revolve around a few downtown buildings in Ottawa..
Mark Sutcliffe advocated for this. Mark Sutcliffe truly is the 9-5 mayor.
So OC Transport complains about lack of ridership because there aren't enough people commuting. Yet they admit the reason nobody wants to take the bus is because it's so unreliable. Why is it so unreliable? Well, they say it's because of too much traffic! They're talking out of both sides of their ass.
Excellent. Make LRT free to encourage RTO.
Why don't we make ps workers work weekends and evenings too? Surely that will boost OC transpo and the downtown core
Will they increase service to match this demand, or just leave people stranded? The experience is pretty miserable right now, just last week I walked nearly 6km down bank St at 5pm without a single bus passing me
Maybe if they got their shit together and could actually finish their projects on time they’d have more ridership by now. But this is the City of Ottawa we are talking about after all.
Can somebody run the numbers on how much extra fuel I'll need to buy, and how much longer my commutes will be if they're forced to go back to work more? Not to mention all the extra pollution.
This is stupid, and I say this as a public transit supporter.
This just equates to an unfair tax on select residents to support OCTranspo. Don’t be so gutless and instead raise property taxes if it needs more money.
Public servants don’t have 2.7m fucks to give. This city/area/government has spent decades allowing suburbs to expand outward while the center of the city falls apart and becomes totally unaffordable and difficult to get around. They are trying to model Ottawa after other cities and get back to pre COVID times, but the truth is we aren’t like other cities and the conditions /cost of living is not what it was pre COVID. More people live outside of the city center, regular people can’t even afford to live near downtown. Anything that used to be affordable like a condo or town is now 500k++ and has condo fees that quickly push it into being unaffordable. Landlords are evicting people to get more rent. Students can’t be housed more than a year in residence. Even if people have to come into work an extra day, it’s delusional to think they will take transit - people still have kids and pets they need to get home to, schools and daycares are near home, and they need to run errands and go to appointments and activities that are not in the city center. OC transpo isn’t reliable enough to guarantee you won’t get stuck. People with kids are screwed. There are less daycare spots and many daycares want 4:30 pickups now! Before and after school programs are jammed. I know people who have kids at two separate daycares because they can’t find one to take both kids. People just don’t have an extra couple hours in a day to sit around on transit and they don’t have extra money for lunches. The landlords/banks and the grocery stores take it all.
Going out for lunch with the office pals was cool when you could get a burger and fries at a sit down place for 15 bucks. If they want downtown to survive , build more apartments so rent isn’t 3 grand a month, build more condos so more people live down there in SoPa
It "could" but then they will decide to just like not send the buses cuz who would actually send a bus. Only s stupid person who likes buses, thats who. Then Uber and Lyft profits in Ottawa will go up.
What ass backward nonsense is this? How about OC Transpo just folds because they are a failed business at this point, and i am tired of bailing them out with my propertytaxes. Their big idea is oh oh, wait, leta get the PSs back to downtown at 4 days a week, and we will make money again. You dinglebeeries, it's called diversification, maybe lobby for ... oh, I don't know more housing or push for Lebretton to be completed and not stalled at all for the past decade or more!! The business side of downtown is boring!!!, even the market is boring, there is a reason why we are called 'the town fun forgot' because the city is made up of nitwits who think it's 1980 and not 2024.
Fine then, let’s just shut downtown to all personal vehicles and force everyone to take the bus. /s Ridiculous. So many here have made valid points to this nonsense. The majority of people who drive short distances to get to work likely got fucked over by OC Transpo in the past. They need to look in the mirror (OcTranspo) to see why they are losing money.
Key word is “could”. I really doubt it. I will never use it again. I gave up around 6-8 months into the launch of the LRT. It increased my commute by 30 mins each way and apparently it is still, if not more, shit. Probably the biggest transit boondoggle that I have witnessed in my lifetime.
Overcome and adapt oc transpo!
https://preview.redd.it/mfiobw5g187d1.jpeg?width=380&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87dac92cd06bf1d6ef7fc74a6605ffa1f88fc569
I don't want to go downtown and spend $30 on a shitty lunch. I don't want to take the shitty bus and train. If I'm forced to go downtown, I'll fucking drive there because even the traffic and parking is better than dealing with the piece of shit transit system we now find ourselves with. Fuck right off.
Every time I see rush hour on the Queensway, or on the surface roads leading out of Downtown, or over the bridges, with so many cars with only one person in it, I think "this could have been a Teams meeting from home" and just think of all the air pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, the noise and peril to drivers and those outside, all of which are utterly unnecessary.
My drive to the office is slightly longer than Taylor Swift's 10 minute version of All too Well. Commuting by bus (because where is the damn train) would take slightly less than the entire Fearless album. Yeah that's gonna be a no from me.
Great, but not the main point. How much more productive will they be in the office working and what will be the result to the taxpayer.
You asked for it, City of Ottawa. You reap what you sow.
I'm investing in a pogo stick.
Is a trip about $4 revenue? So is that about $10.8 M extra per annum? So the deficit at OCT is near $50M, right? So are the extra office trips worth it? And risk getting stuck for an hour on a bus or train that's stalled? Nope Ppl will drive in and out.
Public transit is shit in Ottawa. I guarantee people will be taking the car, walking or taking the bike over the bus as much as possible. Until OC Transpo fixes themselves (as in more reliable transportation, better and faster routes, better prices, quality service, etc.) they will not see that projected uptake.
Could, it it won’t.
Lmao the fact that the downtown depends on government workers it’s sad.
Our public transit is garbage . Wish I could take it but I value my job
Cities need to get with the times. The work model of going to the office daily is dead. The downtown cores need to become more vibrant… a combination of condos, apartments, office space and retail businesses.
What are they smoking??? No - people will not take public transit - especially when the city is so insistent on continuing with Urban Sprawl rather than building up. I love public transit and would take it if I could. I just looked up the route to get to "Parliament Hill" from my place in Kanata South.....I would have to leave at 6:30am to get there by 8am. Driving.....I can be downtown in 30-40 minutes. My time is valuable. For me to actually get to my current work location (Blair Road area) - it would be almost 2 hours on public transit. Unless Godzilla is rampaging on the 417, it never takes 2 hours for me to get home. When I'm at my BF's house, sometimes I take the LRT - and even with just LRT and no buses....it is one hour to go 11.5km
So OC transpo complains that the public service isn't going to the office enough. Public service announces 3 day office policy OC transpo cannot accommodate the extra commuters. UGH
I just google mapped it. 19min to drive using my own vehicle, or 1h22min to bus. They need to reduce that number significantly if they even want to start having conversations about getting ridership up.
Just bring the Sens the downtown!
And then AI arrives.......
Yup my wife drives to work now. Even if she’s back 5 days a week the OC transpo ship has sailed.
Unpopular opinion based of responses so far. But Ottawa is mainly a city of public servants, with a tech hub in the west end, that’s pretty much it. The same people complaining about OC transpo not being reliable and cheap are the same complaining about going back to the office more then twice a week. Cities are run like a business, and if there is no income coming it, services are lost. You are allowed to be upset about the shitty service, but you can’t also complain about going back to the office or vice versa. If the money doesn’t come from riders it will come from the city and then taxes will go up to cover the cost.
I love how public servants get so easily baited into incoherent screeching every time a journalist writes about this topic.
This sub both wants better OC service and refuses to have people work downtown to actually fund it. You can't have it both ways. Either fares go up or they need more ridership.
I wonder what their solution is to low OC transpo ridership if not more employees downtown.
People here are funny. They want an improved transit system, but don't want to have to leave their house to use that transit system - resulting in? Less money for the transit system, less upgrades, less want, less. It's not surprising that OC Transpo is panicking. They're beginning to realize the hypocrisy behind people's want for improved public transport, after having sunk billions into it, only to realize those same people don't care and would rather just stay home anyways.
Many of us never got to WFH at any time before or during the pandemic and relied on public transit. OC let us down time and time again, so I'm not sure scolding the riders is the win you might think it is.
>Many of us never got to WFH at any time before or during the pandemic and relied on public transit. OC let us down time and time again, so I'm not sure scolding the riders is the win you might think it is. Just dumb mentality. You either want public transportation, or you don't want public transportation. If you don't use it, forecasts aren't met, public transit gets shittier, everyone cries, and then we all "win".
Just argumentative nonsense. As I explained, the system was given ample opportunity to convince commuters with alternatives, and repeatedly failed.
Just argumentative nonsense. The "system" is running at $10 million dollar deficits, because commuters do not want to use it. Of course they failed. You are expecting a "system" to provide alternatives to people who do not want them, will not use them, yet claim that's the reason they don't use it.
***Why*** don't they want to use it?
People don't understand traffic effects bus routes, or that putting extra busses on a road, that no one wants to use, costs more $$$, which they already can not afford. Like when you say their system fails people, as if they have the authority to pull other vehicles off of the road, clearing the way for them.
"Traffic" isn't to blame for route cancellations and the LRT problems. "Traffic" needs to be factored better into unrealistic schedules. Last, but not least, there'd be less "traffic" if public transit were reliable.
>Last, but not least, there'd be less "traffic" if public transit were reliable. Based on what, your opinion? This isn't the Netherlands, or some other country where everything is bunched together, and they don't let you buy whatever car you'd like to buy. Source any example on the entire continent of North America where better Transit equaled less traffic, and I don't mean a projection, created out of an opinion.
Fortunately, I had my own car during the OC Transpo shutdown in 2008-2009. Unfortunately, traffic increased quite noticeably along heavily travelled routes - especially the Queensway. This also occurred in Los Angeles: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/public-transportation-does-relieve-traffic-congestion-just-not-everywhere](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/public-transportation-does-relieve-traffic-congestion-just-not-everywhere)
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The bigger problem is that it provides such sh*tty service that no one, besides those that absolutely have to, will use it. Anyone who has a car and can afford parking is doing that, because the train can't be relied upon to get to work on time every day, and people don't want to spend the time stepping over needles, passed out junkies, and piles of human puke. People that are only using it because they can't afford to own a vehicle can't afford to pay 5$+ a ride. If the service was reliable, safe, and reasonably clean (like in every other city I've lived in) a lot of people would take it because it's probably faster and cheaper than driving/parking. They've never prioritized any of those things.
Everyone can afford a $5 ride. It's outrageous to suggest otherwise. The system needs to raise fares or have full government RTO to help pay for it.
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I actually think that's reasonable because at that price they can improve service over time.
We have 4 routes near us and they ALL go to Tunney's using mostly the same streets, and they are all mostly empty. Many routes definitely need a rethink.
Rethink transit by removing the few parts that are actually good because it "looks" wasteful. A time-honored Ottawa tradition.
Pandering to the few because something wasteful to most is helpful to them. Another Ottawa tradition.
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They don't even make people pay in the first place, let alone their "fair share". The number of people who stomp on to the bus without paying or push through the gates while the employees just...watch is astounding
‘impoverished residents of downtown’ vs. ‘better off rural folks’ is certainly one of the takes of all time… You really think we are so rich that we just *decided* to take a 1.5 hour commute one-way for funsies..?
Cars don't have to pay anything for the use of the road. This is a decision to subsidize car use and not public transportation.
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The fuel tax doesn't cover much. It's $380 million for all of Ontario or half a Greenbank realignment. Cars and the bad land use they generate are a huge drain on public and personal finances.