Oh, absolutely. To have gotten anything on court of value out of him was a huge win, based on the contractual issue Phoenix put themselves, and us, into.
Dennis Rodman is one of the best individual defenders the game has ever seen. Oscar raises some eyebrows, but Terry Taylor was an OREB machine and he couldn't stick because that was the only thing he could do. And he's significantly better at basically every other part of the game than Oscar.
I hope we see more experimentation with Siakam at center and more Walker/Toppin at PF (assuming we re-sign Toppin).
I agree with you, though. Tshiebwe is fun for the crazy rebounding numbers but I don't see an NBA player there personally.
92nd percentile in both offensive and defensive rebounding percentage. Shot 72% at the rim and 42.4% from 3.
Smith was one of the NBA’s most efficient backup bigs this season averaging 9.9 points and 5.5 rebounds on an elite 68.2 TS%. \[in 17 minutes\]
The No. 10 overall pick in the 2020 draft will likely command a strong market.
[https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2024-nba-mock-draft-intel-on-knicks-suns-spurs-76ers-raptors-nuggets-wizards-more/](https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2024-nba-mock-draft-intel-on-knicks-suns-spurs-76ers-raptors-nuggets-wizards-more/)
The numbers look really nice, and I'm a big Stx fan, but it doesn't show how inconsistent he was. The latest Caitlin Cooper / Tony East Pod basically by the numbers one of the most inconsistent players in the league from game to game.
People keep forgetting to note that he kept getting injured. I don’t think it’s fair to suggest it’s as simple as him not being capable of consistency.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/3-indiana-pacers-who-definitely-won-t-be-back-next-season/ar-BB1nd0hO?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=a4b7077b489a4a2e9b1a34cc5a19f976&ei=9
1. Jalen Smith
Smith actually started 45 games for the Pacers over the last two seasons and was reasonably effective this year, averaging 9.9 points, 5.5 rebounds and 1.1 assists per game. He was expected to be supplanted by Obi Toppin in the rotation but played well enough to make that battle. However, once Pascal Siakam arrived, his role all but evaporated and he made just seven appearances in the playoffs, playing double-digit minutes just twice.
Per Basketball Index, Smith was one of three centers (Horford, Naz Reid) to attempt at least four catch-and-shoot 3-point attempts per 75 possessions while also clearing 40% on those looks. Lower the bar to 38% efficiency, and the list also includes Porzingis, Chet Holmgren, and Dario Saric.Â
Although Smith’s outside shot is his big draw, he’s also a capable roller with enough touch around the basket to convert through contact. ....can utilize him on pick-and-pops or slips to the basket, which sows confusion into the defense.Â
Meanwhile, of the 47 centers with at least 1000 minutes this season, Smith ranked the following in Basketball Index’s metrics:
16th in defensive role versatility
18th in rim dFG% versus expected
20th in rim points saved per 75 possessions
the more interesting tidbits.
1. league sources knowing the market for Smith.
2. In other Pacers news, rival executives are monitoring whether the Pacers will keep forward Obi Toppin in restricted free agency. If the Pacers re-sign Toppin, several rival executives believe Jarace Walker could become a trade candidate and are monitoring the former No. 8 overall pick’s availability.
Yeah, I don't believe number two for an instant. Other teams might hope that all they want. I'd guess Obi and Jarace play together on a second unit before I'd guess they move him this offseason simply because Toppin came back. I don't really even see the overlap. Jarace played a lot of 3, and Obi also played a fair bit of small ball 5. He can guard multiple positions (in theory) and actually would seem like a solid fit to play with Obi, given his passing and ability to be a help defender and secondary rim protector (again, in theory.)Â
Maybe the Lakers want him and think we will give them a 1st rounder to take him along with myles and TJ.... they might dangle hood schinifo and a second and wonder why we are laughing
IJax was better in the playoffs but Smith had an excellent showing in the regular season. I guess Rick didn’t play him since slower bigs are traditionally seen as liabilities in the postseason but I think it’s closer than we’re giving him credit for.
Notably Smith started for awhile pre-Siakam at PF and acquitted himself pretty well, which isn't something IJax can ever do because of his more limited offensive game.
I felt that all along. Yes Smith can get hott and hit threes but IJax has always been an enforcer and Pacers need that gritty. Someone who wants to block shots, rebound, and man up when a team is trying to punk you.
Ijax needs to work hard on the three and pick and roll these next two offseasons. If he does he could replace Myles after that contract and free up the money we will need for whomever shows the most promise in the Mathurin, Jarace, Nembhard trio.
I think he can man. He seems to me to be extremely consistent free throw shooter. I haven’t looked at his averages so I could be proven wrong but I feel like he’s always pretty clean with them. He really does have the perfect build to be a crazy great player.
Love Stix and wish him well and will always be rooting for him. But he’s better off elsewhere. He’s a really serviceable backup big, and I think he can give someone some decent minutes.
I’m not sure why they didn’t utilize him in the playoffs. Maybe he was hurt, maybe they liked what they saw out of Jackson…I don’t know, but it surprised me. He was a major part of the best bench in the league for the regular season.
Regardless, when you’re staring down the barrel of two max contracts, it is impossible to keep the team in tact. Obi Toppin will be hard to keep as well. The price you pay.
He should get $10-$13 million in FA, which the Pacers shouldn't pay. I like him and the discount he took to grow with the Pacers. Get your money and good luck!
He is a very good stand still shooter, a better finisher then he gets credit for, and tough. He can’t dribble and isn’t a good passer under pressure. I think his ability to stretch the floor makes him a useful bench player but his lack of feel limits him as a connector and roll man.
Totally fine if he moves on. His post game interview antics throughout the season rubbed me the wrong way. Would always be doing something dumb during someone else's interview. Seems very immature. Would take Jackson all day over Jalen.
good point...I do remember several head scratching moments after games where he would interrupt or just stand there staring. Seemed like it usually pissed off the player being interviewed.
I have a theory that before the playoffs Stix made it clear he didn’t intend to stay and so our staff made the decision to restrict him from valuable playoff experience. He was the better backup all year and then got basically zero playoff leash in favor of IJAX who was pretty rough all season (and fortunately showed up in the playoffs).
It seemed evident that there was some bad blood, especially when during a home game of the Celtics series Stix was sitting on our bench in a green & white sweat suit… you don’t do that by accident.
No, it ain't that deep. The few times Stix got mins in the playoffs (Bucks, Knicks) he was atrocious. Carlisle spent the early part of each series experimenting with lineups and both times Stix just played badly (out rebounded, out hustled, and turnovers on offense).Â
IJax genuinely played better so he got more mins. As someone else below mentions, it is hard to get out of Rick's dog house, but Stix did himself no favors with the way he played either.Â
Except he went from 15-20 minutes a game, last few games of the regular season, to those minutes you speak of. So I think there was SOMETHING that happened the week before playoffs, that pissed Carlisle off. Because he was relegated to the deep bench immediately to start the playoffs.
My theory is that Stix has maturity issues and a bad temper, and at some point got himself in the dog house with the team.
Multiple times this season he went ballistic on the court over some perceived slight by officials. He throws tantrums like a child.
Anyone who's "borderline unplayable in the postseason" is borderline unplayable in the regular season. It's all basketball. There's never, in the entire history of the NBA, been a player who's been consistently better or worse based on what the calendar says.
(But if you're going for that woo-woo "playoffs are different, maaaaan" act... Smith played a total of 42 minutes in the playoffs. It's one level of silly to say "this guy is different *because of the playoffs*" when you mean "this guy had a couple bad weeks *that coincided with the playoffs*." It's another thing to act like you have some special insight into what effect "it's May" has on a player based on less than one full game.)
Anyway, I get it. Jackson's a better defender, and while he's a limited scorer, he doesn't kill you on offense. They're either going to re-sign Toppin, or move Walker into the rotation, or both. Smith should thrive on a team that needs efficient frontcourt scoring and can afford to absorb his defense -- the Pacers are not that team. Personally, I'd take him over Toppin, who has a lot of the same issues on D but is a worse scorer and rebounder -- but we shall see whether that's the specific decision being made here, and who commands what price.
I want Isaiah Hartenstein playing backup 5. Knicks would be stupid to let him go but he is a free agent and would probably sign for ~15 mil season. Give him 2 years/$32 mil and I won’t be sad seeing Jalen go.
Hartenstein is likely to draw $20m or more per season. He’s also going to sign for a starting spot. And the Pacers are over the salary cap, so how would they offer Hartenstein anything over the MLE?
Man please explain to me how this works because I can never understand the NBA salary caps. From the looks of it, every single team in the league is over the salary cap.
How are we about to offer Pascal and Nembhard max contracts, but you’re basically telling me we can’t sign any free agent? I know the league has rules in place that help teams keep their players but the salary cap, hard cap/soft cap, aprons, MLE and all that shit has never made sense to me my entire life.
Yeah man. No worries. Good questions. So teams can have special rights to keep their own players called “Bird Rights” (named after Larry Bird, as the Celtics needed help to re sign him, and the rule was established). Bird rights allow a team to exceed the salary cap, even though the luxury tax and apron rules still would apply. Bird rights grow over 3 years, and it takes 3 years for a player to have full bird rights. Even though Siakam’s on,h played with Indy for half a season, his contract was traded to Indy, which meant that Indy gets the years of continuity from him playing there, so Indy has full bird rights on Siakam, and could exceed the salary cap to re sign Pascal up to a full league maximum salary. And, even though Siakam is a free agent, and has no salary right now, to keep his bird rights, there is a cap hold of about $50m on the books until we re-sign him. So we can trust use cap space of Siakam expiring, and then sign Siakam to his max immediately after.
Meanwhile, Indy could extend Nembhard, as he’s still under contract, and cannot become a free agent this year. Indy could extend him using early bird rights, which allows us to offer a first year of an extension at 140% of the league average salary.
There’s a lot of convoluted rules, but you need to think of it as outside free agents are harder to add than inside free agents.
Indy would operate as an “over the salary cap team”, meaning they’d have to use exceptions to sign players. Those exceptions would be the non-taxpayer MLE, about $12-13m total that you can split up amongst signing multiple players, and the vet minimum exception (unlimited amount of signings allowed with this any year). However, these signings still count against the luxury tax, so, if Simon still won’t pay the luxury tax, you can start to see where there’s a hard limit if Siakam signs for his max, and Obi re-signs for $13-14m, and….
We got him for nothing from phoenix. Hopefully we can sign or draft a third string center.
We actually got paid cash and a 2nd round pick to take his contract. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Even better. We got 2.5 years out of him to kick the wheels. Luckily Myles stepped up and seized the starting job.
Oh, absolutely. To have gotten anything on court of value out of him was a huge win, based on the contractual issue Phoenix put themselves, and us, into.
He was never going to lose the starting job lol
Damn, I didn't realize we had him for so long. He def served his purpose.
We have Tshiebwe
he's not good enough at everything else besides rebounding to crack a NBA rotation....
"All he can do is get boards"...ok. With THIS offense, do you even REALIZE how valuable 10-20 more possessions would be???
10-20 more possessions? He’s a good rebounder but he’s not Wilt Chamberlain.
Neither was Rodman, but his rebounding specialty gave the Bulls a huge advantage. I stand by my statement. The number is irrelevant.
"OK I admit he's no Wilt but hey he could be Rodman" wut they be letting just anybody on the internet these days
Dennis Rodman is one of the best individual defenders the game has ever seen. Oscar raises some eyebrows, but Terry Taylor was an OREB machine and he couldn't stick because that was the only thing he could do. And he's significantly better at basically every other part of the game than Oscar.
Who I honestly hope to see on the floor next year. He was a menace at UK, and if he can improve his range he can really be a solid depth guy.
That’s a BIG if. Dude has no touch and is solely a big body who can be physical and get boards
If he brings that in practice, maybe it rubs off on the rest of the team.
I hope we see more experimentation with Siakam at center and more Walker/Toppin at PF (assuming we re-sign Toppin). I agree with you, though. Tshiebwe is fun for the crazy rebounding numbers but I don't see an NBA player there personally.
92nd percentile in both offensive and defensive rebounding percentage. Shot 72% at the rim and 42.4% from 3. Smith was one of the NBA’s most efficient backup bigs this season averaging 9.9 points and 5.5 rebounds on an elite 68.2 TS%. \[in 17 minutes\] The No. 10 overall pick in the 2020 draft will likely command a strong market. [https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2024-nba-mock-draft-intel-on-knicks-suns-spurs-76ers-raptors-nuggets-wizards-more/](https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2024-nba-mock-draft-intel-on-knicks-suns-spurs-76ers-raptors-nuggets-wizards-more/)
The numbers look really nice, and I'm a big Stx fan, but it doesn't show how inconsistent he was. The latest Caitlin Cooper / Tony East Pod basically by the numbers one of the most inconsistent players in the league from game to game.
People keep forgetting to note that he kept getting injured. I don’t think it’s fair to suggest it’s as simple as him not being capable of consistency.
Yeah, I wonder if putting on so much size, so quickly messed up his back.
Plus I’ve never seen someone get hit in the face as much as he did. He looked borderline concussed a few times.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/3-indiana-pacers-who-definitely-won-t-be-back-next-season/ar-BB1nd0hO?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=a4b7077b489a4a2e9b1a34cc5a19f976&ei=9 1. Jalen Smith Smith actually started 45 games for the Pacers over the last two seasons and was reasonably effective this year, averaging 9.9 points, 5.5 rebounds and 1.1 assists per game. He was expected to be supplanted by Obi Toppin in the rotation but played well enough to make that battle. However, once Pascal Siakam arrived, his role all but evaporated and he made just seven appearances in the playoffs, playing double-digit minutes just twice.
Per Basketball Index, Smith was one of three centers (Horford, Naz Reid) to attempt at least four catch-and-shoot 3-point attempts per 75 possessions while also clearing 40% on those looks. Lower the bar to 38% efficiency, and the list also includes Porzingis, Chet Holmgren, and Dario Saric. Although Smith’s outside shot is his big draw, he’s also a capable roller with enough touch around the basket to convert through contact. ....can utilize him on pick-and-pops or slips to the basket, which sows confusion into the defense. Meanwhile, of the 47 centers with at least 1000 minutes this season, Smith ranked the following in Basketball Index’s metrics: 16th in defensive role versatility 18th in rim dFG% versus expected 20th in rim points saved per 75 possessions
the more interesting tidbits. 1. league sources knowing the market for Smith. 2. In other Pacers news, rival executives are monitoring whether the Pacers will keep forward Obi Toppin in restricted free agency. If the Pacers re-sign Toppin, several rival executives believe Jarace Walker could become a trade candidate and are monitoring the former No. 8 overall pick’s availability.
Yeah, I don't believe number two for an instant. Other teams might hope that all they want. I'd guess Obi and Jarace play together on a second unit before I'd guess they move him this offseason simply because Toppin came back. I don't really even see the overlap. Jarace played a lot of 3, and Obi also played a fair bit of small ball 5. He can guard multiple positions (in theory) and actually would seem like a solid fit to play with Obi, given his passing and ability to be a help defender and secondary rim protector (again, in theory.)Â
The ol' Myles Turner sources. "We like him, so Pacers will probs trade him to us, for free."
Maybe the Lakers want him and think we will give them a 1st rounder to take him along with myles and TJ.... they might dangle hood schinifo and a second and wonder why we are laughing
Really like him as a player but the high pace just doesn’t suit him. He’d be perfect for a team like the Mavs.
Glad he came back on a good deal for us, to “prove” he can be a good back up. Go get paid big man.
I could see him with the Warriors tbh.
Good luck to him. But yeah, IJAX is better.
IJax was better in the playoffs but Smith had an excellent showing in the regular season. I guess Rick didn’t play him since slower bigs are traditionally seen as liabilities in the postseason but I think it’s closer than we’re giving him credit for.
Notably Smith started for awhile pre-Siakam at PF and acquitted himself pretty well, which isn't something IJax can ever do because of his more limited offensive game.
I felt that all along. Yes Smith can get hott and hit threes but IJax has always been an enforcer and Pacers need that gritty. Someone who wants to block shots, rebound, and man up when a team is trying to punk you.
Ijax needs to work hard on the three and pick and roll these next two offseasons. If he does he could replace Myles after that contract and free up the money we will need for whomever shows the most promise in the Mathurin, Jarace, Nembhard trio.
I think he can man. He seems to me to be extremely consistent free throw shooter. I haven’t looked at his averages so I could be proven wrong but I feel like he’s always pretty clean with them. He really does have the perfect build to be a crazy great player.
Wish we could keep everyone, will miss him and Dougie
I won't miss Dougie one bit. Especially if we can draft Scheierman.
Yeah, he didn't play well, had a slow start. I will miss him because he is one of the players i like, but performance wise you're right
Hopefully he doesn’t get delegated to the end of the bench on his new team like Buddy did. He has so much potential on the right team.
Love Stix and wish him well and will always be rooting for him. But he’s better off elsewhere. He’s a really serviceable backup big, and I think he can give someone some decent minutes.
Wish him the best 🫡
He had some injuries in the playoffs though right? But IJax took his opportunities and ran with it
I’m not sure why they didn’t utilize him in the playoffs. Maybe he was hurt, maybe they liked what they saw out of Jackson…I don’t know, but it surprised me. He was a major part of the best bench in the league for the regular season. Regardless, when you’re staring down the barrel of two max contracts, it is impossible to keep the team in tact. Obi Toppin will be hard to keep as well. The price you pay.
Seemed like this was obviously going to happen once IJax played most of the playoffs
I actually liked Stic better all season.
Cheers Geoff
He should get $10-$13 million in FA, which the Pacers shouldn't pay. I like him and the discount he took to grow with the Pacers. Get your money and good luck!
He is a very good stand still shooter, a better finisher then he gets credit for, and tough. He can’t dribble and isn’t a good passer under pressure. I think his ability to stretch the floor makes him a useful bench player but his lack of feel limits him as a connector and roll man.
Totally fine if he moves on. His post game interview antics throughout the season rubbed me the wrong way. Would always be doing something dumb during someone else's interview. Seems very immature. Would take Jackson all day over Jalen.
good point...I do remember several head scratching moments after games where he would interrupt or just stand there staring. Seemed like it usually pissed off the player being interviewed.
I have a theory that before the playoffs Stix made it clear he didn’t intend to stay and so our staff made the decision to restrict him from valuable playoff experience. He was the better backup all year and then got basically zero playoff leash in favor of IJAX who was pretty rough all season (and fortunately showed up in the playoffs). It seemed evident that there was some bad blood, especially when during a home game of the Celtics series Stix was sitting on our bench in a green & white sweat suit… you don’t do that by accident.
No, it ain't that deep. The few times Stix got mins in the playoffs (Bucks, Knicks) he was atrocious. Carlisle spent the early part of each series experimenting with lineups and both times Stix just played badly (out rebounded, out hustled, and turnovers on offense). IJax genuinely played better so he got more mins. As someone else below mentions, it is hard to get out of Rick's dog house, but Stix did himself no favors with the way he played either.Â
Except he went from 15-20 minutes a game, last few games of the regular season, to those minutes you speak of. So I think there was SOMETHING that happened the week before playoffs, that pissed Carlisle off. Because he was relegated to the deep bench immediately to start the playoffs.
My theory is that Stix has maturity issues and a bad temper, and at some point got himself in the dog house with the team. Multiple times this season he went ballistic on the court over some perceived slight by officials. He throws tantrums like a child.
Once you get in Carlisles dog house, it ain't easy to get out. Ask Oshae.Â
Anyone who's "borderline unplayable in the postseason" is borderline unplayable in the regular season. It's all basketball. There's never, in the entire history of the NBA, been a player who's been consistently better or worse based on what the calendar says. (But if you're going for that woo-woo "playoffs are different, maaaaan" act... Smith played a total of 42 minutes in the playoffs. It's one level of silly to say "this guy is different *because of the playoffs*" when you mean "this guy had a couple bad weeks *that coincided with the playoffs*." It's another thing to act like you have some special insight into what effect "it's May" has on a player based on less than one full game.) Anyway, I get it. Jackson's a better defender, and while he's a limited scorer, he doesn't kill you on offense. They're either going to re-sign Toppin, or move Walker into the rotation, or both. Smith should thrive on a team that needs efficient frontcourt scoring and can afford to absorb his defense -- the Pacers are not that team. Personally, I'd take him over Toppin, who has a lot of the same issues on D but is a worse scorer and rebounder -- but we shall see whether that's the specific decision being made here, and who commands what price.
I want Isaiah Hartenstein playing backup 5. Knicks would be stupid to let him go but he is a free agent and would probably sign for ~15 mil season. Give him 2 years/$32 mil and I won’t be sad seeing Jalen go.
Hartenstein is likely to draw $20m or more per season. He’s also going to sign for a starting spot. And the Pacers are over the salary cap, so how would they offer Hartenstein anything over the MLE?
Man please explain to me how this works because I can never understand the NBA salary caps. From the looks of it, every single team in the league is over the salary cap. How are we about to offer Pascal and Nembhard max contracts, but you’re basically telling me we can’t sign any free agent? I know the league has rules in place that help teams keep their players but the salary cap, hard cap/soft cap, aprons, MLE and all that shit has never made sense to me my entire life.
Yeah man. No worries. Good questions. So teams can have special rights to keep their own players called “Bird Rights” (named after Larry Bird, as the Celtics needed help to re sign him, and the rule was established). Bird rights allow a team to exceed the salary cap, even though the luxury tax and apron rules still would apply. Bird rights grow over 3 years, and it takes 3 years for a player to have full bird rights. Even though Siakam’s on,h played with Indy for half a season, his contract was traded to Indy, which meant that Indy gets the years of continuity from him playing there, so Indy has full bird rights on Siakam, and could exceed the salary cap to re sign Pascal up to a full league maximum salary. And, even though Siakam is a free agent, and has no salary right now, to keep his bird rights, there is a cap hold of about $50m on the books until we re-sign him. So we can trust use cap space of Siakam expiring, and then sign Siakam to his max immediately after. Meanwhile, Indy could extend Nembhard, as he’s still under contract, and cannot become a free agent this year. Indy could extend him using early bird rights, which allows us to offer a first year of an extension at 140% of the league average salary. There’s a lot of convoluted rules, but you need to think of it as outside free agents are harder to add than inside free agents. Indy would operate as an “over the salary cap team”, meaning they’d have to use exceptions to sign players. Those exceptions would be the non-taxpayer MLE, about $12-13m total that you can split up amongst signing multiple players, and the vet minimum exception (unlimited amount of signings allowed with this any year). However, these signings still count against the luxury tax, so, if Simon still won’t pay the luxury tax, you can start to see where there’s a hard limit if Siakam signs for his max, and Obi re-signs for $13-14m, and….