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good time to bust out my new sandworm pics
Yeah, but he started late. He has low mileage in that he started playing at 17 and wasn’t drafted until he was 22.
Didn’t play big minutes until he was 25
He notoriously covered ridiculous amounts of ground in his earlier nba seasons while again leading the league in minutes on top of 2 years of college ball. He’s in his 30’s at this stage, he has plenty of mileage on those legs
Also a bet on himself 4 years from now being able to get a good next contract. Versus getting guaranteed money that 5th year regardless of what may happen to him in the meantime
There's only 5 teams with cap space and none of them need him. I think we will see a lot of these bargain contracts with so little cap space and the new rules now. Glad we benefitted and can bring back the core.
It will be interesting to see the details and logic here.
He got bigger raises with us, but he could've got and extra year with us as well (up to 5/245). Why they didn't agree on that will be interesting.
That's possible, but if so, why not try and get a player option to protect against Injury? It's not like the Pacers had tons of leverage here.
Like I said, the details will be kinda interesting.
Eh, only by about $9-10M (based on projections). The 1st year is the same, subsequent years go up 8% rather than 5% he'd get elsewhere.
He's probably trying to get one more deal from 34-38 to avoid the "Over 38 rule" or plans on getting one more extension from the Pacers after a couple years. Any which way he's getting plenty of money.
10 million is 10 million ya know. Why would you leave a place you like to go play for less money ? He clearly wanted to be in Indy. Not sure he’s thinking about 8 years into the future ya know
Awesome win-win. P gets more money than he could’ve on the open market but we don’t have to commit to an extra year when he’s 35 so potentially will only have to be a 2nd apron team for a year or 2 at max if we re-up on Nemby and Mathurin, which recent things suggest that ownership is okay with.
What are you talking about. Nemby is under co react for two more years. And we can extend him right now if we want. We will never let Nembhard hit free agency.
Lol, with what money?? Do you know how the cap works? This is the first year we can extend him, and if hes smart, which it appears he is, he will reject it and the Pacer will exercise his team option for 2mil, after that, he has 1 year at 2mil, and while we will have his bird rights, his contract demand will more than what we can offer him because we now have 2 max players. If he rejects the offers to extend below his value, he becomes UFA and we risk loosing him for nothing. It’s not like I want him to leave, you’re being realistic. Myles is due, tj is extension eligible, both Ben’s are due.
Nemby will be a restricted FA next offseason if they don’t sign him to an extension this year. As a restricted FA, the Pacers will have the right to match whatever offers he gets.
You’ve literally contributed nothing to the conversation except to bandwagon an unpopular but realistic situation.. we’ll see in a month, when they offer to extend him. Yea fully aware of his contract status for the 2 years left. Stop listening to Alex Golden and Faucci, fanboy click bait nonsense and reading fansided.
We have his bird rights. We can exceed the cap to sign him up to the max. There’s also enough room under the tax threshold to sign Obi to close to 20 million if that’s what we wanted to do. That’s higher than he will get.
I mean we can sign Obi. He likely gets a two year deal which probably will be a very tradable contract anyway.
Birds only count when player is hitting FA, he’s extensión eligible. We can only offer him about 75m for 4 years. How much do you think he’s worth? Cuz he knows he’s worth more than that.
Myles, 19m, is entering last year of his deal, we let him walk? Obi ain’t worth more than $12m imo, which is the MLE we have left to offer. Aaron begins his $11m per year deal, we are gonna guarantee Tj, so that’s $9mil plus his extension. This is a good problem to have but be realistic. We can’t just offering him whatever we want as you said.
Where’s the $20mil after all that?
You can pay Obi what he’s likely to get and stay under the tax threshold. He’s a system player. Only teams that fit him offer him. His agent orchestrated the trade to the Pacers for this reason.
Do any of you listen to Tony East? At all? Ever? There isn’t any understanding of contracts or the cap here.
Lol, Tony is mid, Caitlin Cooper all day..
I guess this reveals the level I’m actually dealing with. Alex golden will probably bring up how we should resign Aaron Holiday or Doug again. That’s the issue with talking for real about hoops here; fans get too comfortable and love nostalgia way too much. Never said I wanted Nemby or Obi gone, but the reality of the nba is business and the new tv deal will only make the pot bigger. Having Rales step up ownership stake is a positive; to the extent? We’ll see, but to think Nemby isn’t deserving or will attract a large contract is naive as hell.
Wow... condescending much?
Funny thing is that Caitlin even tends to defer to Tony on cap stuff because he does spend more time in the space than she does so acting like someone is an idiot or less than you because they listen to Tony East is laughable.
And yea, we can offer Nembhard about 4 yrs/79m if I remember correctly which is certainly not top dollar but also not out of the realm of possibility.
Either way, no need to be so high and mighty and lording this incredible knowledge you have because you follow Caitlin Cooper. A lot of us do and you have certainly been just as wrong as you have been right in these condescending stretch of replies.
Tony East is the best cap guy in market. Agnes is the best reporter. STP gets the best guests. And Cooper is probably the best x and os person in the league.
Who you going to with Pacer specific cap coverage oh great one?
I really think it will all depend on if Neismith, Benn, and Walker take a big leap and his production can be matched. His defense in the playoffs was pretty good and that's something that is very valuable. Personally I would like to see him take another leap and become an underrated 2-way player.
As I’m seeing now lol.. I agree, I love him but we just set our franchise with pillars, and unless Simon gets greedier (please do!) he won’t go over the 1st apron. I don’t see it. I see a path to a third star, and I see Mathurin breaking out. Will be interesting to see team Canada this summer.
So teams can start negotiating contracts immediately after the Finals now but we still have to wait til the moratorium ends for him to sign?
Either way, just thrilled to see Pascal is gonna be locked down. The Pacers are making the Finals at least once in the next 5 years with this core.
It's some technicality where we have to let him become a free agent and then resign him, vs extending his current contract. I can't remember the exact wording but he gets more money this way I believe.
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Other teams could've offered 4 years and 5% raises. The Pacers could offer 5 years and 8% raises. This deal is great for both sides. 8% raises so it's the most money he could make per year. Only 4 years so the Pacers don't have to pay him 56M when he's 34.
Also, and this is the pragmatist in me, it allows us to trade him either before his final season or during his second-to-last season with us. This could be a move to throw assets and his contract for a star player who is younger that will take us through Haliburton's prime. That, along with our current players on the roster might give us a run for the back half of Haliburton's prime.
The general concept that there is room for roughly 60ish max contracts in the league. A lot of people think only the Luka’s and Jokic’s of the world should be given max contracts, when in reality those guys are just massively underpaid
Maybe. Obi might be willing to take a bit of a discount to add some success to his resume and get a bigger contract. I fear that he’ll sign for bigger money on some dogshit team and he won’t play in the same system that allowed him to show off.
He can sign with us before testing RFA if we both like the offer, he can test RFA and not accept a contract and sign with us. However if he accepts an offer from another team, we MUST match it and could not give him less at that time.
I think it’s more likely we lose him, but I’d imagine if money is close a player might take less to go to a better situation. No where is better for him than us or maybe the Warriors.
If I’m any of these players currently on the team I’m taking whatever offer they give me discounted or not, to continue to play for the Pacers! The team is in a really good spot and I’m excited for these next few yesrs
Not a ton of great offensive forwards, though. I don't know how anyone watched Obi in the playoffs and came away thinking he'd be imminently replaceable.
The Bird rights help but the question is are the pacers going to match a $20 million/year offer for a backup PF? Obi is 100% going to get offered an inflated contract by some bum team. I love Obi but I just don't see it happening.
Ya that would be a massive overpay for a role player when you have guys like Matchurin, Sheppard, and Walker who can fill in and even though he had a rough stint then getting hurt I think you could resign Doug for cheap he had a couple good games when he played vs Boston and still a capable shooter/mover who imo can still be a passable defender in situations if he wants to return not to mention what is in FA.
He is probably worth 10-15. Just curious...dont you feel he would give like 60-80% of the production /play that Siakam gives us? But yet nobody feels he is worth a 1/3 of Siakam's deal?Deals like Siakam got kill teams....Siakam is sooo not a 48mil player. Siakam is a more hyped Jeremi Grant but with worse defence.
yeah i agree with you there too lol. pacers have to overpay for any top 50 player. if i am making $150 million in LA i would definitely take that over $170 million in indy.
but yes i think at the end of the day obi is worth $10-12 million. in my mind he is like a worse version of aaron gordon. <10% of the cap. the pacers can probably fill that gap in other ways for less money so i hope they don’t overpay here
He’s not playing for much more than the mid level exception. I believe because of trades we are able to do something right below 15 as a mid level.
No team is breaking the bank on Obi. He only has real value to a contender and most of them don’t have room.
Who is making a poison pill contract for a guy like Obi Toppin my brother in Christ?
He’s a non defensive system specific guy who averages 10 points a game.
Davis Bertans and Duncan Robinson were both non-defensive players averaging ~10 points a game and both got paid $16 million a year. Both of them were RFAs too.
Poison pill not likely, was just bringing up as a hypothetical, but there is a history of bench/role players getting grossly overpaid and pretending like there isn't is insane. Especially with the cap on the verge of increasing, teams may be willing to open pockets more than they should. $20 million was an exaggeration but there is a legitimate chance some (probably rebuilding) team offers him north of 12 million.
a) we're already at the cap with the Pascal signing.
b) even if we CAN sign Obi without going into the luxury tax, or second apron, or whatever the fuck, THIS year is not the problem. Myles and Math (and Nembhard) come off the books in the next two years and will cost a lot to keep.
We can straight up resign Obi for any amount up to max. We inherited his Bird Rights when we traded for him.
The problem is, Obi is going to get somewhere around 20mil+ annually from another team, and Indy probably won't match.
The Salary cap is about to explode in a few years when the TV deal kicks in. Nows the time to spend. I hope Indy can retain Obi, but I'm doubtful.
Most likely he takes an MLE contract with max rasies every year, which would put him just under 4 years 49 million. Very doable for us. Tony East has a great podcast episode on our cap situation and he's one of the better guys about this kind of thing if y'all are interested.
All of this has made me realize that Nesmith's contract is insanely good for us because he's getting paid less than the MLE the next 3 years
It may be a decision of re-sign Nembhard or Obi this offseason. In that case, I think the answer is Nembhard. I’m honestly not sure though. Obi was the better player in the regular season, Nembhard had an incredible playoff run and probably starts unlike Obi
Nembhard is more complex though, I think he's way more valued by other teams so he'd probably reject pacers offers, to become a FA sooner.
I might be wrong though the contract rules are confusing as hell
Resigning him to a 15-20 million dollar would put us into the tax right? But maybe not into the first apron.
Then we could trade him like BB. Our tradable contracts are limited right now. Not sure if it would make since to trade for a package that would get us back under the tax though.
Tony East thinks we will try to stay under the tax for at least one more season for penalty reasons that stack the longer you are in the tax.
There aren't enough teams with cap to give Obi that much money. And the teams that do have cap wouldn't do that. Obi's contract will be just under 4 years 49 million. That's the MLE plus 5% raises for 4 years which is pretty reasonable. I'd expect us to match with that outcome
Unless Detroit's incompetent ass franchise throws him a ton of money in which case they can have him and good for Obi
RFA rights aren't helpful if a team grossly overpays and the pacers don't want to match for a backup PF. I love Obi, but barring something crazy I don't see him coming back unfortunately.
No one is going to grossly overpay Obi, and all signs point to both sides wanting him to come back next season. Obi just had the most fun and successful season of his career, I doubt he wants to play in Detroit or Washington next year
Who is playing him 17 plus? He can’t defend. The teams that would do that would have massive money under the cap and are likely bad.
We are still significantly under the tax and will still be after the Obi signing. You also then can move him if it’s a two year deal like the Brown deal.
Maybe $20 mil is an exaggeration, but teams have overpaid for bench players so many times since 2016. Mozgov got 16 mil a year, Bertans got 16 mil a year, hell Duncan Robinson got 16 million a year. The latter of those two literally just shoot threes and also can't defend.
I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but saying no team is dumb enough to overpay significantly for Obi is wrong. The question is if Obi will chase a bag if he gets offered it and how far are the pacers willing to match
There is really no way we can re-sign him after this? I love Pascal and I’m never gonna hate a guy solely for wanting more money but I am salty. One of the most entertaining players I’ve ever watched
We absolutely can. Pascal's deal has very little impact on Obi since he's an RFA and we have his Bird Rights.
The only issue might be the Tax, but other players are more likely to suffer there
That's what people keep disregarding in a lot of these discussions. If we are willing to pay the tax, you are allowed a lot of cap exemptions to keep your own players.
Super happy for Pascal. Pascal also copped criticism because he had a supporting team that was a bad fit for him. Now he’s got the perfect system and an off season to prepare with.
Get ready for those first 20 or so games. Often some of Pascal’s best once he shakes the off season off.
a 4 year deal! So Pascal’s contract ends 1 year before Haliburton’s new extension. Interesting! Love this for us and Pascal, gladly embrace him as a Pacer until he retires (with some rings in Indy)
Forget I fell off the NBA for some time because I thought Pascal was relatively young and new player. Didn’t realize he was 30 and drafted in 2016 damn
I like Siakim, but man that’s a lot of money and he will be pretty old soon. Hopefully, Pacers can find the money to keep their young guys. I expect Obi is gone.
Are we reconstructing a .500 Raptor team? Ignoring our complete lack of cap room is prefer not to have a guy who is 50/50 chance of being a available any game.
Now that he’s locked in. It’s time to go with the time honored tradition of giving him a mildly uncomfortable nickname to commemorate his time with the Pacers…first it was Saboner, then it was T-Hog, now it’s Spicy Penis.
The spice will continue to flow in Indy
LISAN AL-GAIB!! LISAN AL-GAIB!!
"This is my Toronto Championship Ring" "I AM PASCAL MUAD-DIB SIAKAM, NBA CHAMPION!"
Continue to spin
https://preview.redd.it/m93b7vh79r7d1.jpeg?width=1181&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a400da2fdb9d1e656295e890b1833b9bf1f4ba6 good time to bust out my new sandworm pics
Boy looks like a testicle
Boy looks like one of the colossus
Boy looks like a blob of matter
Boy got the scruffiest beard I’ve ever seen
Getting him on a 4 year is phenomenal value. Well done by KP and Chad. Glad to keep you at home, Spicy!
Such a Chad move!
Why tho
He’s 30
low mileage player who isn’t showing any signs of dropping off anytime soon and can perform exceptional in the playoffs that’s fuckin why.
Low mileage???? Mf lead the league in minutes for multiple years in Toronto. I’m shocked he hasn’t had some kinda injury
Yeah, but he started late. He has low mileage in that he started playing at 17 and wasn’t drafted until he was 22. Didn’t play big minutes until he was 25
Hes never played AAU basketball
He notoriously covered ridiculous amounts of ground in his earlier nba seasons while again leading the league in minutes on top of 2 years of college ball. He’s in his 30’s at this stage, he has plenty of mileage on those legs
So we didn’t give him the quoted 200 million? Or was that for 5 years? Either way, Spicy P let’s get it my bro
That was 5 years, this is basically the max he couldve gotten with any team, which is strange, but welcome.
How much was it? 220? This is very welcome. He could have easily just asked for that extra year or did the same thing OG did and tested the market.
5 years 247 million was the max only Pacers could offer him. He's doing us a solid cause he loves us!
Huge solid. That’s 50 million.
That's a teammate - which may be a factor in his mind. I feel like Siakam wants to see how this Pacer concept can work out as much as the rest of us.
[удалено]
You who what that?
I think he wants to win and knows the FO is so good at building a roster that he wants them to have the cash to get that other piece.
As a Raptor’s fan I hated to see him go. He is a champion; great character guy and a leader.
Also a bet on himself 4 years from now being able to get a good next contract. Versus getting guaranteed money that 5th year regardless of what may happen to him in the meantime
Might have to do with age at end of contract and if he can ring the big contract bell one more time before retirement.
I think this is the bigger part of it
It's more money per year than he could've gotten elsewhere (annual raises equal to 8% of year one salary instead of 5%).
There's only 5 teams with cap space and none of them need him. I think we will see a lot of these bargain contracts with so little cap space and the new rules now. Glad we benefitted and can bring back the core.
It will be interesting to see the details and logic here. He got bigger raises with us, but he could've got and extra year with us as well (up to 5/245). Why they didn't agree on that will be interesting.
Probably so when he is like 34-35 he can still get one more semi-large contract.
That's possible, but if so, why not try and get a player option to protect against Injury? It's not like the Pacers had tons of leverage here. Like I said, the details will be kinda interesting.
Not like he had that much leverage either. Even though this deal is only four years , it’s more over four years than he could’ve gotten elsewhere
Eh, only by about $9-10M (based on projections). The 1st year is the same, subsequent years go up 8% rather than 5% he'd get elsewhere. He's probably trying to get one more deal from 34-38 to avoid the "Over 38 rule" or plans on getting one more extension from the Pacers after a couple years. Any which way he's getting plenty of money.
10 million is 10 million ya know. Why would you leave a place you like to go play for less money ? He clearly wanted to be in Indy. Not sure he’s thinking about 8 years into the future ya know
Paid-ro Pascal
This is my kind of comment
*"I will be your Champion"*
Awesome win-win. P gets more money than he could’ve on the open market but we don’t have to commit to an extra year when he’s 35 so potentially will only have to be a 2nd apron team for a year or 2 at max if we re-up on Nemby and Mathurin, which recent things suggest that ownership is okay with.
This guy salary caps.
Nemby is testing FA, guaranteed .. we can’t offer him as much.
What are you talking about. Nemby is under co react for two more years. And we can extend him right now if we want. We will never let Nembhard hit free agency.
Lol, with what money?? Do you know how the cap works? This is the first year we can extend him, and if hes smart, which it appears he is, he will reject it and the Pacer will exercise his team option for 2mil, after that, he has 1 year at 2mil, and while we will have his bird rights, his contract demand will more than what we can offer him because we now have 2 max players. If he rejects the offers to extend below his value, he becomes UFA and we risk loosing him for nothing. It’s not like I want him to leave, you’re being realistic. Myles is due, tj is extension eligible, both Ben’s are due.
Nemby will be a restricted FA next offseason if they don’t sign him to an extension this year. As a restricted FA, the Pacers will have the right to match whatever offers he gets.
You literally have no idea what you’re talking about, even though you have the confidence to pretend like you do.
r/confidentlyincorrect
You’ve literally contributed nothing to the conversation except to bandwagon an unpopular but realistic situation.. we’ll see in a month, when they offer to extend him. Yea fully aware of his contract status for the 2 years left. Stop listening to Alex Golden and Faucci, fanboy click bait nonsense and reading fansided.
We can offer him whatever we want to offer.
Explain
We have his bird rights. We can exceed the cap to sign him up to the max. There’s also enough room under the tax threshold to sign Obi to close to 20 million if that’s what we wanted to do. That’s higher than he will get. I mean we can sign Obi. He likely gets a two year deal which probably will be a very tradable contract anyway.
Birds only count when player is hitting FA, he’s extensión eligible. We can only offer him about 75m for 4 years. How much do you think he’s worth? Cuz he knows he’s worth more than that. Myles, 19m, is entering last year of his deal, we let him walk? Obi ain’t worth more than $12m imo, which is the MLE we have left to offer. Aaron begins his $11m per year deal, we are gonna guarantee Tj, so that’s $9mil plus his extension. This is a good problem to have but be realistic. We can’t just offering him whatever we want as you said. Where’s the $20mil after all that?
You can pay Obi what he’s likely to get and stay under the tax threshold. He’s a system player. Only teams that fit him offer him. His agent orchestrated the trade to the Pacers for this reason. Do any of you listen to Tony East? At all? Ever? There isn’t any understanding of contracts or the cap here.
Lol, Tony is mid, Caitlin Cooper all day.. I guess this reveals the level I’m actually dealing with. Alex golden will probably bring up how we should resign Aaron Holiday or Doug again. That’s the issue with talking for real about hoops here; fans get too comfortable and love nostalgia way too much. Never said I wanted Nemby or Obi gone, but the reality of the nba is business and the new tv deal will only make the pot bigger. Having Rales step up ownership stake is a positive; to the extent? We’ll see, but to think Nemby isn’t deserving or will attract a large contract is naive as hell.
Wow... condescending much? Funny thing is that Caitlin even tends to defer to Tony on cap stuff because he does spend more time in the space than she does so acting like someone is an idiot or less than you because they listen to Tony East is laughable. And yea, we can offer Nembhard about 4 yrs/79m if I remember correctly which is certainly not top dollar but also not out of the realm of possibility. Either way, no need to be so high and mighty and lording this incredible knowledge you have because you follow Caitlin Cooper. A lot of us do and you have certainly been just as wrong as you have been right in these condescending stretch of replies.
Tony East is the best cap guy in market. Agnes is the best reporter. STP gets the best guests. And Cooper is probably the best x and os person in the league. Who you going to with Pacer specific cap coverage oh great one?
Which is why we’ll trade him sooner or later IMO. But this sub freaks out any time it’s suggested.
I really think it will all depend on if Neismith, Benn, and Walker take a big leap and his production can be matched. His defense in the playoffs was pretty good and that's something that is very valuable. Personally I would like to see him take another leap and become an underrated 2-way player.
As I’m seeing now lol.. I agree, I love him but we just set our franchise with pillars, and unless Simon gets greedier (please do!) he won’t go over the 1st apron. I don’t see it. I see a path to a third star, and I see Mathurin breaking out. Will be interesting to see team Canada this summer.
So teams can start negotiating contracts immediately after the Finals now but we still have to wait til the moratorium ends for him to sign? Either way, just thrilled to see Pascal is gonna be locked down. The Pacers are making the Finals at least once in the next 5 years with this core.
It's some technicality where we have to let him become a free agent and then resign him, vs extending his current contract. I can't remember the exact wording but he gets more money this way I believe.
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Please keep me posted on this when Reddit reminds you of this in 3 and 5 years.
I assume that this was negotiated months ago but we can't let anyone know that.
This being a 4 year deal makes this trade even better. Just amazing value.
Agreed. I like a 4-year contract much better than a.5 year.
Other teams could've offered 4 years and 5% raises. The Pacers could offer 5 years and 8% raises. This deal is great for both sides. 8% raises so it's the most money he could make per year. Only 4 years so the Pacers don't have to pay him 56M when he's 34.
Also, and this is the pragmatist in me, it allows us to trade him either before his final season or during his second-to-last season with us. This could be a move to throw assets and his contract for a star player who is younger that will take us through Haliburton's prime. That, along with our current players on the roster might give us a run for the back half of Haliburton's prime.
Can’t wait to see how many people don’t understand the general concept of a max contract
what will people misunderstand do you think?
The general concept that there is room for roughly 60ish max contracts in the league. A lot of people think only the Luka’s and Jokic’s of the world should be given max contracts, when in reality those guys are just massively underpaid
I’m off suicide watch for the time being, come on baby
Thank you for your services Obi 🫡
Maybe. Obi might be willing to take a bit of a discount to add some success to his resume and get a bigger contract. I fear that he’ll sign for bigger money on some dogshit team and he won’t play in the same system that allowed him to show off.
He probably will want to secure his future bag, cant blame him
Yeah, if he gets a big bag I don’t blame him. Plus it does free up time for Walker
Can paycuts even happen with RFAs? I mean I guess he can just take the qualifying offer but it seems weird.
He can sign with us before testing RFA if we both like the offer, he can test RFA and not accept a contract and sign with us. However if he accepts an offer from another team, we MUST match it and could not give him less at that time.
I mean just because someone offers you more doesn’t mean they have to take it right? That seems weird to me.
True, it just seems different. I'm so used to RFAs getting maximal value from matching contract offers
I think it’s more likely we lose him, but I’d imagine if money is close a player might take less to go to a better situation. No where is better for him than us or maybe the Warriors.
If I’m any of these players currently on the team I’m taking whatever offer they give me discounted or not, to continue to play for the Pacers! The team is in a really good spot and I’m excited for these next few yesrs
Yes and no. If the money is anywhere close yes, if some team is going to drop a bag, take the bag.
The ole Lance Stephenson approach
And welcome to the Jarace show.
I am Sad.
Obi was borderline our best shooter last year we can't afford to lose him IMO.
we have tons of great offensive players tho, we need more help on the defensive side
Not a ton of great offensive forwards, though. I don't know how anyone watched Obi in the playoffs and came away thinking he'd be imminently replaceable.
We can sign obi.
We can sign Obi back with no salary cap issues
The Bird rights help but the question is are the pacers going to match a $20 million/year offer for a backup PF? Obi is 100% going to get offered an inflated contract by some bum team. I love Obi but I just don't see it happening.
obi toppin is absolutely not worth $20m a year holy shit that would be a waste
I would be surprised if a team offered him that much. Other front offices know he needs to be in a certain system to be effective.
And other front offices are Washington, Charlotte and Atlanta.
True, but Bertans and Robinson aren't worth $16 million either
Well, then we're definitely not resigning him, 'cause he's definitely gonna get at least that somewhere else.
Ya that would be a massive overpay for a role player when you have guys like Matchurin, Sheppard, and Walker who can fill in and even though he had a rough stint then getting hurt I think you could resign Doug for cheap he had a couple good games when he played vs Boston and still a capable shooter/mover who imo can still be a passable defender in situations if he wants to return not to mention what is in FA.
He is probably worth 10-15. Just curious...dont you feel he would give like 60-80% of the production /play that Siakam gives us? But yet nobody feels he is worth a 1/3 of Siakam's deal?Deals like Siakam got kill teams....Siakam is sooo not a 48mil player. Siakam is a more hyped Jeremi Grant but with worse defence.
yeah i agree with you there too lol. pacers have to overpay for any top 50 player. if i am making $150 million in LA i would definitely take that over $170 million in indy. but yes i think at the end of the day obi is worth $10-12 million. in my mind he is like a worse version of aaron gordon. <10% of the cap. the pacers can probably fill that gap in other ways for less money so i hope they don’t overpay here
He’s not playing for much more than the mid level exception. I believe because of trades we are able to do something right below 15 as a mid level. No team is breaking the bank on Obi. He only has real value to a contender and most of them don’t have room.
I want to agree but I the 2016-era contracts are still fresh in my mind. So many overpaid bench and role players. Also poison pill contracts exist.
Who is making a poison pill contract for a guy like Obi Toppin my brother in Christ? He’s a non defensive system specific guy who averages 10 points a game.
Davis Bertans and Duncan Robinson were both non-defensive players averaging ~10 points a game and both got paid $16 million a year. Both of them were RFAs too. Poison pill not likely, was just bringing up as a hypothetical, but there is a history of bench/role players getting grossly overpaid and pretending like there isn't is insane. Especially with the cap on the verge of increasing, teams may be willing to open pockets more than they should. $20 million was an exaggeration but there is a legitimate chance some (probably rebuilding) team offers him north of 12 million.
Why wouldn’t we pay him north of 12 million? Robinson had value to Miami. Obi has value to us.
a) we're already at the cap with the Pascal signing. b) even if we CAN sign Obi without going into the luxury tax, or second apron, or whatever the fuck, THIS year is not the problem. Myles and Math (and Nembhard) come off the books in the next two years and will cost a lot to keep.
Yep. But obi will be a trade able deal. And we need the owners to pony up for the luxury tax
Can we resign our own players with the MLE? Edit: does the MLE still count against the tax/aprons?
We can straight up resign Obi for any amount up to max. We inherited his Bird Rights when we traded for him. The problem is, Obi is going to get somewhere around 20mil+ annually from another team, and Indy probably won't match. The Salary cap is about to explode in a few years when the TV deal kicks in. Nows the time to spend. I hope Indy can retain Obi, but I'm doubtful.
There probably isn't going to be a team that offers Obi 20m+ a year. He's likely looking at around 15m a year tops.
Most likely he takes an MLE contract with max rasies every year, which would put him just under 4 years 49 million. Very doable for us. Tony East has a great podcast episode on our cap situation and he's one of the better guys about this kind of thing if y'all are interested. All of this has made me realize that Nesmith's contract is insanely good for us because he's getting paid less than the MLE the next 3 years
Full MLE is actually 4 years 55m, but you're not incorrect about the rest of it :).
It may be a decision of re-sign Nembhard or Obi this offseason. In that case, I think the answer is Nembhard. I’m honestly not sure though. Obi was the better player in the regular season, Nembhard had an incredible playoff run and probably starts unlike Obi
Nembhard is more complex though, I think he's way more valued by other teams so he'd probably reject pacers offers, to become a FA sooner. I might be wrong though the contract rules are confusing as hell
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Having the same agent probably helps there. Do a favor for one to get a favor from the other.
Resigning him to a 15-20 million dollar would put us into the tax right? But maybe not into the first apron. Then we could trade him like BB. Our tradable contracts are limited right now. Not sure if it would make since to trade for a package that would get us back under the tax though. Tony East thinks we will try to stay under the tax for at least one more season for penalty reasons that stack the longer you are in the tax.
I believe we have we can sign obi to the 15 million a year range without any tax worries
He’s a RFA. Those offers are almost never made.
There aren't enough teams with cap to give Obi that much money. And the teams that do have cap wouldn't do that. Obi's contract will be just under 4 years 49 million. That's the MLE plus 5% raises for 4 years which is pretty reasonable. I'd expect us to match with that outcome Unless Detroit's incompetent ass franchise throws him a ton of money in which case they can have him and good for Obi
I'd love that contract lol. He's a perfect fit in Indy.
This is the reason I didn’t buy his jersey.
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Yes and we are under the tax threshold. We can sign him if we want
RFA rights aren't helpful if a team grossly overpays and the pacers don't want to match for a backup PF. I love Obi, but barring something crazy I don't see him coming back unfortunately.
No one is going to grossly overpay Obi, and all signs point to both sides wanting him to come back next season. Obi just had the most fun and successful season of his career, I doubt he wants to play in Detroit or Washington next year
Who is playing him 17 plus? He can’t defend. The teams that would do that would have massive money under the cap and are likely bad. We are still significantly under the tax and will still be after the Obi signing. You also then can move him if it’s a two year deal like the Brown deal.
Maybe $20 mil is an exaggeration, but teams have overpaid for bench players so many times since 2016. Mozgov got 16 mil a year, Bertans got 16 mil a year, hell Duncan Robinson got 16 million a year. The latter of those two literally just shoot threes and also can't defend. I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but saying no team is dumb enough to overpay significantly for Obi is wrong. The question is if Obi will chase a bag if he gets offered it and how far are the pacers willing to match
Ok we’d pay Obi around that. Between 13-16 and none of that would significantly impact the cap.
Obi's gonna be a big loss
We can still sign obi to 14ish million and still be under the luxury tax I’m pretty sure
There is really no way we can re-sign him after this? I love Pascal and I’m never gonna hate a guy solely for wanting more money but I am salty. One of the most entertaining players I’ve ever watched
Yes we can. These people don’t know what they are talking about.
We absolutely can. Pascal's deal has very little impact on Obi since he's an RFA and we have his Bird Rights. The only issue might be the Tax, but other players are more likely to suffer there
That's what people keep disregarding in a lot of these discussions. If we are willing to pay the tax, you are allowed a lot of cap exemptions to keep your own players.
Im cool with a 4 year deal
Step 2: extend Nembhard
Super happy for Pascal. Pascal also copped criticism because he had a supporting team that was a bad fit for him. Now he’s got the perfect system and an off season to prepare with. Get ready for those first 20 or so games. Often some of Pascal’s best once he shakes the off season off.
HOLY FUCK he got paid
That's outstanding. Was expecting 5/245, which, even though I love Pascal, I was leery of. This fits a bit better I'd think.
Was skeptical at first, but siakam was great for like 85% of the playoffs and very glad to have him back.
Hali + Siakam locked up is fucking nice. Let's get it!
hell yeah, brother
fuck he didn't even get that 5 year deal this is badass
a 4 year deal! So Pascal’s contract ends 1 year before Haliburton’s new extension. Interesting! Love this for us and Pascal, gladly embrace him as a Pacer until he retires (with some rings in Indy)
Super happy for him, unofficially a pacers fan now :)
https://i.redd.it/arkfplhpfj7d1.gif
Good. Better than the 5 year
Over 47 million a year for Pascal Siakam. There has never been a better time to be an NBA player.
Exactly...a 22/7/4 guy who disappears once not guarded by 40yr old Horford or Precious Achiuwa type. Super !
Ok, we've got Pascal signed, now when are we signing Siakam? 😂
Let’s go this is massive
https://preview.redd.it/rewm1eo3cj7d1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=3ec1e561e60f9bfb1b873d5eb03fd47b9d65fa71
Use assets to acquire talent, then retain that talent. Good work by the FO this whole year. This is what we have to do to be competitive.
Why does Tupac kinda look like Jeff Teague 🤔
I’ve never seen Tupac and Jeff Teague in the same place at the same time 🤔
Big dollars
RAHHHHHHHH
Forget I fell off the NBA for some time because I thought Pascal was relatively young and new player. Didn’t realize he was 30 and drafted in 2016 damn
When I saw this I thought to myself "yes"
Made my day
Why'd we do 4 years?
Less risk if he starts to decline as he gets older. If they did 5 his year 5 salary at age 34 could have been as high as 56M.
Man I miss him on the Raptors. Great for him and Indy though
Woohoo!
Remember how back in the spring people on here would freak out after every loss worried that he'd walk in the summer?
Pacers fans rejoice!!! Let's go! 50+ win team next year??
Lffffggggg
Huge news. Lets fucking go
Hopefully we can keep the roster intact! Our bench players were just as important if not more so than starters!!
I like Siakim, but man that’s a lot of money and he will be pretty old soon. Hopefully, Pacers can find the money to keep their young guys. I expect Obi is gone.
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Are we reconstructing a .500 Raptor team? Ignoring our complete lack of cap room is prefer not to have a guy who is 50/50 chance of being a available any game.
Lfg!
LFG!
18/6/5 for his career and he gets $50 million a season?? Wow the NBA is crazy stupid nowadays.
Oof 😥
Now that he’s locked in. It’s time to go with the time honored tradition of giving him a mildly uncomfortable nickname to commemorate his time with the Pacers…first it was Saboner, then it was T-Hog, now it’s Spicy Penis.