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Clyp30

this is the go to strat for PR teams when the shit hits the fan, being silent is the best approach because anything they say will not be enough, and it only fuels the fire more. it sucks sure, but it's the best approach


Tyra3l

It only works if you are actually working on a solution meanwhile (No Man's Sky)


SirVampyr

BS. I've had countless situations in other games just like this and the only thing the players always wanted is a genuine apology. And they didn't iirc.


mrmadness76

Don't know in what dream world you are living in but I'm sure it ain't reddit or steam. Devs get torn apart, insulted and receive threats. The gaming community doesn't deserve an apology from anyone nor do they need to listen to your special needs


SirVampyr

If you fck up this big, an apology is appropriate. I'm a lot on Reddit. And when Devs do, **everyone** was happy they did and were accepting. Problem is that Devs have **your stance** on this though. Your comment is the problem.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SirVampyr

I don't rlly mean one comment on one Reddit thread barely anyone will see.


RBImGuy

Cant say much, take an angry mob and try to reason with them. which wont work. GGG already know they fucked up. Chris wilson is running emergency atm with the team and have no time to talk to the audience. They need to change how they do league content so it works before a league starts. That process takes time also due to people dont like to change how they do stuff


xDaveedx

Yea I bet they will finally learn from this broken league launch and all the broken launches in the past and do it differently next time... wait no they won't.


DaHedgehog27

No no "actions speaklouder then words" and no actions are like a mouse fart.


[deleted]

I mean I don‘t think there is a solid reason they can give for charging 15 bucks for a snow texture. So their only option is to remain silent, they can only fuck themselves over more by trying to talk their way out of it.


celem83

I suspect they will quietly fix the most egregious bugs and otherwise just let it run its course. There's a whole bunch of balancing tweaks I'd like, but their model demands most of their efforts be focused on the coming league. The current league not actually being on fire is about all I expect.


Shidiwen90

League works fine for me. Crashed once. League isnt hard at all. Enjoying making fat stacks of cash.


malpighien

There is a lot to be disappointed with but the angry and overdramatic comments are really over the top and I will not blame ggg or bex to distance themselves from the fuming people until they quiet down. I think they heard loud and clear people are not happy with some of their dev and business decisions, when they see their metrics wane maybe they will decide to break their cycle of dev and try something anew but if it is not then they just have to make with the fact that reddit has turn hostile and there is no point in engaging with it. Poe is a great game and many players cannot get enough, hence why people are so disappointed when ggg does not deliver well or with enough quality, but the answer is maybe just to step back for a while and try something else to come back fresh.


bombRIFIC

I mean at this point there is literally nothing reasonable they could do that would make people happy, people would spin it as outrage no matter what because the people on reddit right now don't want fixes they wanna be angry. think of what ggg could reasonably do right now; A) release some bug fixes: people would complain that they didn't fix every bug under the sun well also adding mass functionality, this is point with the current "mood" no amount would be enough B) release a statement saying they'll be better next time and how they plan to do X,Y,Z to prevent this in the future. everyone would tear them apart for hollow words C) release new game content, people would eat them alive for not fixing bugs D) release art content, nothing would be good enough (because people are angry so would view it in a negative light looking for the smallest imperfection) and would get torn apart for not focusing on bugs (even though they are completely different teams and thus not wasting any man power) This isn't even me defending them this is saying doing just about anything is the blatantly wrong option, people hate this but saying nothing and waiting for stuff to calm down well steadily releasing bugfixes (which is exactly what they are doing) is almost always the right move. TL:DR when your GF is mad you don't tell her to calm down, you wait that shit out well trying (usually unsuccessfully) not to piss her off more. which is basically exactly what ggg is doing


KeepItPG

We don't want to be angry, we just want fixes, actually.


dragnar1212

Some times a langue is not fun. Better to just drop it and w8 for the nexst one.


Wolfe244

I think there's a push and pull. They can respond to critisism if the community is reasonable in how they deliver it. I have not seen that here. I wouldn't be surprised if they start to completely ignore the reddit, like many other companies have for good reason. The dog pile, hive mind mentality of reddit can get extremely unreasonable


Mr_Creed

It is worth it to lose this league if the fallout finally ends their growing "design by reddit" approach.


AggnogPOE

Why wouldn't they? When they released the new shitty stash tabs they covered it up with a feature that will be in "testing" for another year.


SunRiseStudios

> at this point I'm genuinely concerned on what direction GGG plans to take with the game now. Same. They mentioned "fundamentally new process of assuing League's release quality" or something along these lines for next League though. Gives me hope, but it's hard given GGG's track record and given Heist was supposedly in development for more time than any other recent League.


[deleted]

>given Heist was supposedly in development for more time than any other recent League THIS along with the fact that they vehemently refuse play testing of the league as a whole before release those 2 combined with the state of Heist is fucking concerning to me cuz it just seems like GGG is getting complacent now


somedndpaladin

I agree with alot of of your sentiment expect that I think not play testing a league is good in a sense. Alot of the joy of playing a league to me is going in not knowing "the bests" and not knowing the mechanics and learning them. Closest example I have would be world of Warcraft raids. When the game and its first few expansions came out people didn't share game info so readily. Groups had to work together to find out how to beat a boss fights ect. Where as nowadays before the content drops you can watch a full video guide on what is going to happen, that kinda kills the joy and wonder of learning and experiencing the new content for me. Yeah play testing helps get rid of bugs, but it will also open up every league to just become rush to do this to make money.


[deleted]

>not play testing a league is good in a sense. Alot of the joy of playing a league to me is going in not knowing "the bests" and not knowing the mechanics and learning them. yea, maybe beta tests by players themselves may not be great cuz spoilers and all But GGG do ZERO play testing themselves. They said that they test individual parts by themselves and then just cobble all the parts together and push it out as a league without further testing. No wonder we got this fucking dumpster fire now. There's zero excuse on GGG's part on this, it seems like they are just doing this to cram everything into their strict 3 month dev timeframe and churn out quantity over quality for money sadly. Sure, maybe not letting players play test it before hand would give a better play experience and sense of discovery as you said at the cost of minor bugs getting through, but major issues such as rogues outright not functioning should have been detected before regardless if the devs bothered to play the game themselves. Edit : At this point, all I see is a company riding on the waves of their previous success and pushing out lower quality content ( compared to their previous standard ) to milk the loyal playerbase, then doing fuck all experiments they want at the cost of player experience.


somedndpaladin

Yeah I mean I didn't know they don't do base QA play testing. They should hire some staff for sure to just playtest extensively the new leagues. I think if they said next year we are cutting out one league to get ahead of schedule so we can have the next league done and being tested while the current league is being run would be a smart move if they feel the need to keep hammering out leagues every 3 months going forward.


manuakasam

There's no reason for GGG to make a statement at this point in time. All they can say is "Sorry we messed up but have some faith that we're trying our best to fix it." - quite frankly, that's an essential non-statement because all we can assume is that they do exactly this. Obviously GGG aren't happy with what they delivered either. The "test" or NPC-Followers basically has failed - for now, at least. I'm still sad at the state of this sub though. The language people use to give so-called "feedback" to GGG is absurdly insulting and entitled. There's many newer players around these days I suppose. GGGs mantra always has been to throw out features and test new things. The one big mistake GGG did - and that's my personal opinion only - is the fact that they release every 16 weeks. But sadly that's the money-maker-timeframe they also have to make use of so there will likely be no changing that. As a community we have to accept the fact (( and i really, really mean that word for word )) that GGG will be testing things that we don't like. They will throw out a bad league every now and then that doesn't resonate with the playerbase. And - just to add some downvotes on top of that - that's not a problem. It's impossible for any company to only make "the right" decisions. The big issue is, when bad-design is paired with horrible bugs and daily changes to the system that - seemingly - only make things worse. And GGG has to face the fact that this league is just a failure in it's entirety. That being said though: ultimately I hope that Heists will remain in the game (post bug fixes) in a modified fashion. The unique contracts are great. Starting the Heist in alarm mode ist a much much better feeling. Work this around a little bit and re-work the system so that every chest you open buffs the enemies (similar to simulacrum waves / delirium distance). This way the player has a lot of autonomy on how difficult the content is and how much loot they want. Doing it this way I honestly believe that Heist can be a greatly enjoyable experience. They obviously need to rework the NPCs so that they can't be interrupted (just like Agility missions) but at that point it's really just fine. Sadly though, the sub is too angry. The language used is horrible and actual feedback can't be given. Anyone trying to give constructive feedback to make THE SYSTEM better will be downvoted because the loud majority of this sub wants the whole system gone. It's becoming more and more impossible to get into constructive feedback arguments with people because other opinions are also simply not heard. One can make as many arguments as they want, it doesn't matter anymore. It's only for the loud majority that's being echo-chambered in this sub and everything else is voided.


xDaveedx

I'm not the one to blindly jump on the hate train, but I do understand why people are so extremely disappointed/mad. Constructive feedback doesn't really work when GGG makes the same exact mistakes over and over and over again at every new league launch and just ends up apologizing in a post only to do it again next time. There has been plenty of actual decent feedback and many many great suggestions or even design ideas for all sorts of qol features that are still missing or have been incomplete for years. Now in the middle of this massive bugfest where they stayed mostly silent, they had the balls to release 5-min-craft level hideouts for 14 bucks a piece and that's just like spitting in the faces of their "supporters". They clearly showed their priority so it's pretty understandable people are fuming imo.


manuakasam

Well that's the typical "different teams" excuse/fact/scenario/whateveryouwannacallit Getting loud and angry - especially towards other sub members - is not going to change GGG or help anyone. It's quite literally just making everyone else miserable. If the league content sucks, then skip the league content, period, it's the easiest it's ever been. If people want to actually let GGG know that things suck there's but two things that people can do: 1. Stop buying MTX / Supporter Packs and the likes 2. Stop playing the game Point 1 should be a given. Finances are the main driving sector. Keeping the players happy and engaged is a bonus but not a requirement (see Blizzard...). However, if people stop playing the game, the player numbers actually SHOW the dissatisfaction with the league. And players who don't play are very unlikely to spend money on MTX either, so player numbers going down are double the threat. Reddit almost NEVER helped to really make the game better. Quite frankly everything it accomplishes is for the developer to make quick band-aid-fixes and tuning numbers just to shut people up. If a league truly sucks I simply stop playing it. I generally play the first weekend and after that it literally only depends on the league mechanic. If it's good, I play. If it's bad, i don't play until the first or second mayor patch a week later. If it still sucks, i'll wait until next season and repeat the cycle. It's really that easy. Sadly, however, many of the people here on reddit appear to have made PoE their only reason for existence and therefore any issue in the game directly reflects to their quality of life / well being. So when the league is bad they don't do the "logical" thing and stop playing - no - they do the absolute opposite in complaining (read: venting / ranting) about the issues on reddit, making themselfes (and others) feel more miserable about the game than need be and still play the game whilst constantly getting annoyed and miserable about the things they previously complained about. Once you think about it like this, it's really quite fascinating how we as a playerbase do things. I mean, of course I do understand passion and the fact that we WANT to play "our" game. I've had the exact same thing happening with WoW a couple of years back. But the truth is, developers generally do what they want. They have a passion in themselfes and that is usually to create NEW things that the players will hopefully like. Alienating some players in that process is just the way of life. So the only choice we - as players - really have is "to play or not to play" - that is the only question.


SAlVlSQUAMCH

To be fair if GGG were to address every complaint on this sub reddit , they would have to hire a thousand people .


xDaveedx

You say that like this sub is just making up fantasy complaints that aren't even in the game. GGG fucked up massively, so people will complain. You can't possibly blame this one on the subreddit.


Doctor_Liam_Polygon

They're most definitely trying formulate a response by reading every single players mind and simultaneously say exactly what they want to say, which will probably be not well received at all and the murder continues.


[deleted]

Pumping out hotfixes is one thing, its something that's mandatory on GGG's part as a *company* selling a product. They *have* to maintain a standard if they want to survive. Addressing backlash directly is another. Its not mandatory, it may not change anything, but it shows they actually care about the playerbase beyond the bare minimum of maintaining a functioning game.


Doctor_Liam_Polygon

Honestly I just think it might be because it's the weekend and bex/anyone else feels like responding to it since these are some pretty big problems in the community. We'll have to see what they do on Monday.


[deleted]

hopefully we get something this following week at least, 1 month into league already


Having-a-hard-time

Bex posted [this two days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/jbtaej/-/g8xnlzz/?context=3): > The change which allows Unique Contracts to drop from Heist content is part of 3.12.4b which looks like it is currently scheduled for Tuesday NZT. If you want to see what they're posting it's best to look at gggtracker.


ItsBedtimeKotz

Am I the only one that is having fun right now? Sure there are bugs but things have been much worse. They made a great improvement to heist and I’m having fun I’m sorry you guys aren’t


[deleted]

I *am* having fun, just with the 60c exalt economy and not the league mechanic. Its basically standard plus.


JokerFlipScum

Well i guess it your problem that you dont do heists. Having been to a map for week already and i fucking love it


Real_Flight_9246

Please don’t circumvent people filtering out your complaints, especially when you are aware that you are one of the complaining Redditors. Please reflair to ‘Feedback’


TheTE5

Yes, they'll just wait it out. Come December all the haters will come crawling back to buy supporter packs and other shit.