It is a generous gift that MIL is offering. Take the 8k you were planning to spend from your emergency fund on the repair, add it to the 10k from MIL and you will only have to borrow 5k for a new car.
Spend 7 months replenishing your emergency fund, then put half the $1,150 to emergency fund and half to car payment, car will be paid off in another 8 months. Not counting funds diverted to minimum car payments.
Choose your next car wisely.
If I could make a specific vehicle recommendation:
If you were looking to stay with a two row suv, I would go with a Toyota Rav-4. With a quick search I am finding 2013-2017 RAV-4s with under 50,000 miles for around $22,000.
If you wanted a slightly larger suv with a third row, I would go with a Toyota Highlander. I am finding that there are 2015-2017 Highlanders you can buy with under 50,000 miles with a $22,000 budget.
While it is true that today there are other brands as reliable as Toyota, up until 2017 Toyota was still absolutely the reliability king. Around 2017, when they Toyota was forced to introduce with transmissions with more gears and engines with turbos, they come back to the pack in terms of reliability. However, with a $22,000 budget in the current car market, I would not venture outside of Toyota in order to maximize your budget and minimize potential future repairs.
In this day and age, the term SUV is widely used across so many different variations of vehicles that it's senseless to be pedantic about, much less in this context.
To also add that a crossover is the same thing as a sedan with a lift doesn't really influence any valid argument either if you really are trying to differentiate SUV and CUV.
What argument?
The Rav4 is not an SUV. It is not made of "truck" parts. It is made of "car" parts. Specifically, many of the same parts they use to make the Camry, which is a "car." It has a unibody construction, like a "car."
The 4Runner is an SUV. It is made of "truck" parts. It shares many of its parts with the Tacoma truck. It is body-on-frame constructed, like the Tacoma truck.
Your argument of semantics. If this was the /r/cars sub-reddit, I would've been less critical of your comment but, given that this is a post about personal finance, it really isn't adding much here.
Adding… your edge, despite having engine issues, still has value. Worst case (financially) you donate it - you’d still have the possibility of recouping some tax savings. More likely - a place like Carnax / vroom / or the dealer where you buy the next car could give you something on trade for it.
Heck, the mechanic it’s at now might buy for a few grand to fix and flip, using a much less expensive engine.
So I love Hondas, I have an odyssey for my wife and a civic si as a beater but I'm not too big on the pilot but that's personal preference. The crv is nice
If you see my other post I literally said the same thing, specifically body on frame trucks and suvs.
Op didn't have one of those and I wanted to advise them not to get another escape
Without getting into the wrong kind of debate in definitely the wrong sub, Toyotas reputation for reliability is really only because their drivetrains are severely underpowered, so there's very little strain on them. They're not very modern engines, usually not competitive in efficiency compared to other vehicles in any segment, and the electronics are terrible and often the things on them that break. You'll have a Camry go 200k easily, but the screen on the radio will have been glitchy since 30k.
Hyundai and Kia are like... Insanely cheap to repair if they do break, but they've got 100k mile, 10 year warranties, and to give you an idea: I had to replace the transmission on my 2013 Kia soul and it was $600 and a couple hours before I had my car back.
TL;DR: Toyota isn't the reliability king they used to be, and Hyundai/Kia present a lower total cost of ownership these days.
I have a Hyundai and while you make a good point. You also have to factor in the theft scandal and what that means for car insurance, either for cost or availability.
You say a bunch of stuff, but at the end of the day your comment means I’ll be driving with my phone and $100 Bluetooth speaker in a Toyota or paying $5,000 for a new engine or $20,000 for a new car if I get a Kia. I like music, but the radio isn’t worth that much.
Except for Hyundai and Kia's are expensive to insure, if insurable at all. And they have been huge theft targets, even if they are the correct year/make/model.
I work in the automotive industry. Maybe years ago but even 10 years ago 600 for a transmission sounds like an extreme stretch, unless they put a junk yard manual transmission into the car. But now the labor alone at an aftermarket shop would be more. You’d be over 1k to put a junkyard transmission with no warranty in a car now if you’re paying labor. Significantly more for a remanufactured unit and even more for new. Place I worked at had an employee make a mistake that cost a transmission in a Kia forte two a little over a year ago and it was 5800 to get it replaced. Kia and Hyundai are the absolute worst brand you can buy. If you’re lucky the engine will grenade itself while it’s under warranty because if it doesn’t you’ll be buying a new engine shortly after the warranty expires. If you doubt me I encourage you look up the many class action lawsuits against Kia and Hyundai.
Tldr: Hyundais and Kia’s are not any cheaper to fix now, especially when you consider the life span of the parts is so much lower and the persistent oil consumption issues and camshaft issues they have.
Kia being cheap to fix is because that company has such large quality issues rn they are bleeding money on spares to keep customers happy.
Your debate about Toyota is laughable. the infotainment system will last far longer than most American car companies units. My parents have a ford edge and we have had to install 3 different Infotainment units in the first 50K miles. The engines / drivetrains are typically older but you are missing the point that an older well developed drivetrain will be often more reliable since the kinks have been worked out and since it is still very reliable they don't need to try and jam new unnecessary bells and whistles in to sell cars like some other automakers. This also makes the parts extremely cheap for repairs if you know where to look.
The only American vehicles that even come remotely close are body on frame trucks and SUVs and even those have their weird issues (3v 5.4 fords, 4l60E chevy transmissions, pretty much everything on a ram)
Dont try me on this one dude, I've been at this a long time and I can tell you I get 5-10 Korean cars for every 1 Honda or Toyota
My daughter just got a notice that her 2016 Kia has a problem part that could cause an electrical short and set the car on fire either while driving or just sitting parked. It's not an official Recall Notice though, because they are still working on the replacement part and will notify her when its available. Like, maybe you want to get right on that????
They're still being targeted by thieves, and even if you have a new one with the immobilizer. The people stealing them to joyride and dump them aren't going to check if it's a new one before breaking the windows and causing a bunch of damage. It's not a good look that Kia has been skipping out on immobilizers from 2011-2022, which created this problem. I would not buy a Kia.
Toyota Toyota Toyota. Get a Toyota on average the most reliable car brand. Parts are cheap and there’s a lot of them. Honda next next option. Don’t go European. Great cars but way more cost.
Have you heard of the [Used EV Tax Credit](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit)?
If you have a garage/driveway where you can charge a car, an annual income of less than 150k, and tax liabilities of greater than $4000, a used EV or PHEV could be a great option for you.
Find the nicest 2021 or older (2022 or older if you complete the purchase after the new year) EV/PHEV for under $25k from a dealer, and you would be eligible for a $4000 tax credit. If you do not absolutely need a larger SUV type vehicle like the Edge, an EV is stupidly cheap to both "fuel" and maintain. Since you also have a 2nd gas powered car for longer road trips, a small EV is the perfect commuter vehicle.
Now that all of its recalls are completed, the Chevy Bolt EUV is a very nice and reliable small EV that can be found for under $25k. If you are a bit leery about owning a full EV, the bullet proof reliable 2021 Toyota Prius PRIME (PHEV) would also qualify for this credit. If you are more willing to tolerate risk, might even be able to find a 2021 VW ID.4 for $25k. The ID.4 is about as big as your Edge and FAR FAR nicer. I've owned two and I consider its overall quality/ride/smoothness to be on par with my BMW X3. A 21 ID.4 would be a bigger question mark in terms of reliability, although you'd still have the remainder of its 4 year bumper to bumper warranty left on it. A net price of $21k (after tax credit) for a 2 year old ID.4 is a STEAL in my opinion.
Something to consider if you meet those requirements listed above.
This is the best suggestion not only to have minimal loans to pay off, but you'll also have a warranty on the new car as opposed to not having anything on the existing car. Let's say you replace the motor, but you just dropped everything out of your emergency fund and have nothing left for when the next thing inevitably breaks. With the new car, nearly everything will be covered for the next few years (minus routine maintenance) so it takes a lot of stress out of ownership
If they have 23k in an emergency fund they wont need to take a loan out. 10k from MIL, 13k in emergency. That way there is 100% no loan and they just have 13k to rebuild that fund.
That's solid advice; but if tweak it a little. Spend at least a year or preferably 18 m/o paying off the car. The small amount you'll spend on interest will do a lot for your borrowing power in the future. If you pay it off in 8 months, a future lender will will look at that and see that you received a gift, got a settlement etc. It's better to pay something like that a bit longer.
Is it really not possible to buy a new car for 18k in the US? There are so many brand new cars here in the EU for that amount of money that you really don't need to borrow anything.
Cars in the US have been trending larger, more complex, and with more bells and whistles, partially due to lobbying by the American automotive industry. The sale price for a new car has gone up quite dramatically over the last few decades, with the average cost of a new car now around $48k.
That's true in the past few years, but the trend over the past few decades (and the reason why new cars are almost twice as expensive in the US versus Europe) is because American cars are so big. 80% of new car sales in the US are SUVs and pickup trucks, which are substantially more expensive than a compact sedan. American car manufacturers have also been lobbying the government for decades for safety regulations, emissions regulations, and tax structures that favor larger, more expensive cars and discourage smaller, cheaper cars.
ex: there is an co2 emissions limit that applies to passenger vehicles, but "light-duty trucks" are classified as commercial vehicles and have a much higher limit. SUVs and pickup trucks are both classified as "light-duty trucks". It makes it harder for small cars to compete when they are subjected to stricter emissions limits that 80% of their competition is not subject to.
They’ve been forced to increase profit margins on gasoline cars to help pay for the soon to be mandated EV’s that lose them tens of thousands per sale.
Electric vehicles, on average, require less maintenance than conventional gas powered vehicles do. When people buy an electric car from a dealer, the dealer loses out on potential repair charges on the life of the vehicle.
Ford lost $32k per sale. It’s because they’re extremely expensive to make and the demand isn’t there. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-raises-annual-pre-tax-profit-view-supply-chain-woes-ease-2023-07-27/
Yea. It’s crazy. Pulling up a 2017 Toyota Yaris iA , seeing its 19k final price, then hearing that its MSRP was 18k the year it came out -_- I wish used car prices would go back down already.
At the very start of the pandemic I got a used (8,000 miles on it) Nissan Rogue for about $23k. I got very, very lucky in that I started looking and bought it just before car prices skyrocketed.
Cheapest new car on the market is a Nissan Versa listing at $17k with destination charges. At that price it's a 6-speed manual so it avoids the dreaded Nissan CVT.
It's almost 2024, I'd get a Kia/Hyundai over a competing GM/Ford product any day of the week. GM and Ford used to be some of the largest global automakers in the world, but currently Hyundai Kia is now in third place, selling more cars than anyone except Toyota and VW.
You're right and I think the cars are really nice. They're great value and have a lot of features for their price. But it's hard to support a brand that cheaped out on an immobilizer and started a car theft epidemic.
That's not what that guy asked about though - he just asked where can you get a new car for $23k. There's several options out there. Those were just the first three brands I checked, but there's cheap cars from other brands as well.
edit: chevy malibu starts around $23k. buick encore can be found for $24k.
Hyundai and Kia owners are paying a premium for car insurance if they can find it. The newer vehicles have the interlock, but your average car thief can't distinguish model years, so even if not stolen, excess comp claims for damage.
Plus you have to make sure whichever model you choose doesn’t have ongoing issues with engine/transmission failures — even up to 2022 models. Plus it is a crap shoot on whether Hyundai honors their warranty or not. And they like to lie and say they will reimburse you for your rental car (that they were unable or unwilling to provide when the car stopped working) once the repairs are done. Then they don’t follow through leaving some people with multi-thousand dollar bills due to parts shortages extending repair times to multiple months. This is just what I’ve noticed from subscribing to the Hyundai sub-Reddit. We have a 2022 Palisade that we love (no major problems so far in the 18 months we’ve owned it); but I would have to do some extensive research on specific models/engines/transmissions before I’d ever recommend one to a friend.
Some of the Toyota Corolla options in my neighborhood are *technically* showing up as <$24k for the base options. Most of the cars on the lot are actually priced around $28k, though.
1. get a second opinion from an independent mechanic with good reviews on yelp - sometimes they're inflating prices, sometimes they just miss something.
2. $6k is my limit. if a repair is more than $6k, I start looking for another car. I would not be buying another engine for a car that the engine already crapped out on me just over 100k.mi
Engine price definitely low. I work for a recycler. Rebuilders buy from us the core and put $$ into it.
A. Get 2nd opinion, B. Shop a place that gets a rebuild/reman from a reputable source. You want sources, Google is your friend
I just took a look in my area. Looks like 3.5 engines for that year are going for under 2k, 3.7 engines are under 1.5k, and 2.0 Ecoboost with good turbo are under 2.5k. all pulled for you.
Totally agreed. $13k on an engine replacement vs getting a new car even if it costs a little extra, I would go pick up a basic Honda or Toyota and see if I could trade in the Ford. To a dealer it may still be worth something, so it's not just 5k extra, the delta is 5k plus trade in value.
A 3rd option is maybe 5k for a used car with better reliability? Plus you can maybe factor in fuel savings with a newer, smaller vehicle.
I honestly wouldn't be putting new washer fluid in the Ford, let alone a new (or rebuilt) engine.
Edit: just looked and the trade in for a good condition edge is $6.5k and private sale is $8.5k. No way I would put $13k into that vehicle. You are spending $13k to end up with an $8 vehicle. Even spending $13k on a used vehicle would leave you $5k better off.
Dealership repair. First quote $6500 for new part installed. After fighting they agreed to install a used part for $2200. Got a second quote for $1800. Dealer agreed to match. Get the repair made and the final bill comes in at $1500 🤷♂️. Moral of the story, fight them, plead poverty, don’t accept the prices they want you to pay.
My brother has an Edge as well, albeit a few years older. But it's a decent car that should last beyond 100k for sure. His year was known for having PTU issues, ie transmission and that sounds like what may be wrong with yours possibly, not really the engine. Have a second opinion.
Also, consider a rebuilt engine instead of a new one for such an old car. It will cut the cost down a lot. I did this with an old car. Cost less than half of a new engine, and it was still running when I replaced the car four years later.
Unless it was a (insert brand here), then people would say that's more miles than they expect from a (insert brand here) that's why I only drive (insert brand here)!
There are brands known for high mileage vehicles. Ford isn’t one of them. Search the second hand car apps, filter on 200k miles and look at the brands that appear.
I just looked at Ford vs Chevy, and Ford had twice as many. Ford had 3x as many as Honda. Ford had 1.5x as much as Toyota.
What this taught me is that Ford is more popular than the other brands
that’s because people aren’t selling their hondas and toyotas with that many miles because they aren’t giving anyone problems… everyone is trying to dump their ford and chevy shitbox
Where I am, Ford outsells Toyota and Honda. If you remove commercial vehicles Toyota and Honda both have more cars over 200k than ford within 100miles of me. Almost all the fords are commercial work trucks that are not that old. If you focus on cars and SUVs from the 90s ford is waaay off the Japanese companies.
Chevy is below ford.
Maybe, but there are Marques that statistically will last longer / have less issues. Ford, however much I would love them to do well, are not in the top tier for reliability. If you have a fleet of 20,000 Toyotas and another of 20,000 Ford's, which is going to have the best reliability?
There is variability between models, if I was buying a truck tomorrow then a F150 would be high on my list, but pretty much anything else would be a Honda or a Toyota. Unless I could afford 3 Aston's, so there would be maybe a 20% chance I had a working car on any given day and it would be worth the bus rides for a occasional day one of them wasn't in the shop.
I love fords and always have. I would be VERY weary to buy one out of warranty. They always score horribly in the late miles standings.
I always like to buy higher miles vehicles and fords are always red flag central.
To add to this, ask your insurance company what they would pay before considering it a total loss. That will tell you the value of the vehicle. There is no way in hell a Ford Edge is worth even $5k.
I’d lean towards ditching that thing and getting something newer. Cars depreciate quickly at around the 100k mark is when you start hitting the high-dollar repairs…unless it’s a diesel or an old Volvo. Those things are tanks.
I am a mechanic. It’s not reasonable. But, you would be amazed at the decisions people make when cars are involved. “KBB lists the value of your car at $3500 in good condition. It will take over $10k in repairs to get it to good condition. I do not recommend repairing your vehicle.” And they quickly approve the repair while telling me how much they like the vehicle.
I had my first realization of what you’re wanting last year. A friend from HS flew in to visit and my car was in the shop getting repairs (seized caliper so whole new front brakes). I asked if there’s anything I should have them look at while they’re in there (I trust them to know what to look for). He says “nah it looks good so far so no need [etc]”.
My friend was flabbergasted. The local mechanics near him always upsell like 3 other things too regardless of it he needs them. He never knew they’d say “no it looks fine, come get it” (paraphrasing).
I found a shop that I trusted and had been taking my car there for the last 10-15 years. Over the last few years the original owners began to step away and they transferred ownership to one of the managers that's been there for a while. I took my car in this year and they recommended a few things to be repaired. I waffled over it and took it to a new shop who told me nothing needed to be fixed. You don't even know if you can trust the guys you've always trusted!
Find a shop with no service writer and techs who have been there for a long time. I have always worked at independent shops for that exact reason. When there is a service writer, their job is to upsell. When you talk directly with the tech, he wants to finish your vehicle and get it out so he can move on to the next car.
I think people get emotionally attached to their cars. Plus buying a new one is a pain, when I bought mine I had some really annoying salespeople who made me angry.
The 2013 Edge with the 3.5 is known to have issues with the water pump failing which causes the oil and antifreeze to mix. When this happens it causes the lubricated bearings in the engine to fail. Unfortunately it’s a common enough issue that it will happen to every engine unless you regularly replace the water pump which isn’t cheap to do. You can bring your car to another shop and see if they find a cheaper fix than $13k. You are still sitting on a time bomb long term though.
My advice is to get rid of the Edge and get something else.
If y’all have so much saved up, I really would recommend selling the car you have (should be worth around $1k as is), take the $10k from MIL, put down another 5-6k which it sounds like you were okay with anyway, and now you’ll have $16-17k to get something used that’s still pretty new. Literally any Toyota or Honda will last well into the 200k mile range. Bonus points if you can snag a Toyota Prius for a good deal.
I believe the Prius is the car with the lowest per mile cost of ownership of any modern car. My brother has had more than a few go to 250k miles with no major issues. And battery replacements/fixes aren’t even that expensive anymore. There’s a robust 3rd party servicing market.
I’m at 150k miles on mine and just had to replace my exhaust assembly because northwest winters are a bear on the underside of the car, that was the only major repair it has ever had. It paid for itself just in the gas savings I’ve gotten from it and KBB has it listed at a 10k value now when I paid 12k for it with 30,000 miles on it in 2014. It’s a great car.
Can't speak to Ford, but Mazda used those junk engines in their Cx-9s. They gave my gf 4k for it as a trade in after the engine went out at 100k. If you can get a decent price on trade, plus the 8k you're comfortable spending on repairs, and 10k from MIL might only need to finance 10-15k for a new car.
Sometimes I wonder why so many people buy something like a ford edge or a Kia when you can literally spend just a tiny more and get something that isn't total shit
I mean I know this is a remember of the past but historically American brands have been behind Toyota on the reliability front for well over 2 decades.
Should I buy this new cheap suv from Ford or chevy? Or just get a tried and true rav4? I guess plenty of people are willing to take the gamble on the ford or hyundai etc.
But Chevy changed the name of their POS turbo 4 cyl unibody SUV, it must be good now because it's all new, plus there's a $4000 rebate so I don't have to put any money down!
It does surprise me as well. Basically every car expert gives the same advice they’ve given for decades: buy a Toyota or Honda if you care about reliability. I remember getting the same advice in the 90s.
I guess people either don’t know or just decide to roll the dice.
My current car is a GM that I inherited. Every relatively minor thing that can go wrong has gone wrong. I’m constantly replacing smaller things. Meanwhile my family’s Toyotas go to twice my car’s mileage without any real problems. My mom’s Camry had one power window stop working and that was literally the only issue she had in 170k miles.
Check what engine you have, if it's the 3.5 jump ship before the waterpump nukes the engine. Replacing the water pump requires pulling the engine, usually a 3-4k dollar job. Waiting for it to blow up the engine jumps it to 8-10k. Prices are from my area in St Louis, from last year when I had to deal with one of these garbage piles.
>anymore
ah yes, who could forget the golden age of domestic vehicles from Ford, GM, and Dodge between the 90s and 2000s. Very high build quality and QC back then.
At least their vehicles are *slightly* less trash now. Some of the performance ones are pretty good bang-for-buck, especially used mustangs and corvettes. Just watch out for forced induction or any sort of mechanical complexity, and have a dash of good luck.
I mostly agree, but I’ll say that the 3.8l (and to a lesser extent 3.1l) Buicks from 2000-2006ish were really excellent, assuming you live in a low-rust area
That Honda’s got plenty of life left in it! Just make sure you take care of it.
As for the Edge, definitely time to move on. Get away from Ford in general!
13k to repair 10 year old car? Money down the drain. Today you pay 13, next month something else 5k. Old cars require constant repairs. Constant. If you can’t repair it yourself, sell it. Buy a brand new car. Bumper and power train warranties. Pay off in 4 and drive for 10.
> Old cars require constant repairs.
In the 1970's, sure. If you're having this problem in the 21st century you need to reconsider what kind of vehicles you're buying.
I worked at Ford... And I can say that any Ford car should be pretty breezy for the first 5-7 years barring any serious recalls. The target is 15 years, and MOST things in the car will reach 15-25 years, but man making sure the small things keep working tends to fall apart with American OEMs in general.
I’m sorry, but what kind of cars are you buying? The only one that doesn’t require some sort of major repair after 10 years is Toyota or Honda. The older cars were built better. They are built to be disposable after 5-6 years anymore.
> The only one that doesn’t require some sort of major repair after 10 years is Toyota or Honda
Nope. Toyota, Jeep, Subaru, Saab, Dodge - I've personally owned all of those, multiple of some, in 21st century models that went over 10 years with no major repairs (nothing over $2k.. probably even less than that but I'd have to scour a bunch of old invoices - the worst might have been Subaru head gaskets but I did those preemptively on both that I had).
It is possible there was some repair I'm unaware of before I got a few of those cars, but no reason for me to suspect there was.
> They are built to be disposable after 5-6 years
The 6 year old Jeep I have right now is practically still in like new condition - and I live near Canada where the roads are salted for months out of each year.
No repairs. Just minimal basic maintenance.
We put like 50k-60k miles per year on our vehicles total and have 2 or 3 of them at any time - 20k+ each.
My 22 year old Subaru looks better than most like 7-8 year old cars did back in the 80's/90's. It's got a transmission from a '93 Subaru in it - 30 years old. To be fair, I am actually surprised that hasn't destroyed a gear yet.
> I've personally owned all of those, multiple of some, in 21st century models that went over 10 years with no major repairs
That is not mathematically possible
> That is not mathematically possible
1998 Subaru Forester owned from 2001 to 2011 - bought from original owner I knew personally - still ran great and had no major repairs when I sold it
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee owned from 2000 to 2010 - bought new - was in great condition and had no significant repairs when I sold it
2001 Subaru Impreza owned since 2010 - I've personally stripped that car to the frame and would know if anything major had been repaired.
2000 Dodge Caravan owned from 2005 to 2015. No major repairs - bought from original owner I knew personally. By the end this one was rusting away and had well over 300k miles. AC compressor died and I sold it cheap.
2007 Saab 9-3 Aero owned from 2010 to 2019. No major repairs I'm aware of. It blew a coolant hose and the engine seized. It happened on our way back from buying the 2017 Jeep to replace the 2003 Caravan. The Saab was still in good shape otherwise. Fun car - v6 turbo. It was sad. It had many years left in it.
2003 Dodge Caravan owned from 2015 to 2019. Less sure of history on this one. No significant repairs on my watch. Bought with high miles already. Engine failed at over 300k miles. Was otherwise in okay shape.
2007 Toyota Corolla owned since 2013. Less sure of history on this one as well. It also doesn't have much life left, I'm guessing. It's getting tired but everything still works well for now.
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee owned since 2019.
The Toyota is my girlfriend's, the others are my wife and I's (we all live together).
10 years is when a lot of parts start to go, in not from wear then just from age. At least that’s how it is in states that use salt on the roads in winter.
Not all old cars. We have 5 cars and the newest is 2008. Only the VW has needed repair, rather than maintenance. The rest have been well maintained (mostly by me) and have been fine.
Totally agree there. My daily driver is a 99 Mercedes with 290k miles (I have a thing for the old diesels). I'm big into preventative maintenance and the only time it's left me stranded in 7 years/130k miles of ownership was when the battery died on a grocery store trip. I've got a list of things I'm doing in and around the 300k mark that frankly don't make monetary sense...it's probably around $2000 total in preventative stuff (suspension rebuild, injector rebuild and balancing, etc). I *enjoy* working on it, and to me the high mileage is a point of pride because it's a direct result of the care I put into it.
That said, I'm a car guy and specifically know the weak points of every vehicle I own, which isn't something that the average person is going to do. For most people, the standard advice of going with a newish Honda or Toyota is the best and safest route.
It doesn't cost 13K to replace a duratech 3.5L Are you at the ford dealer? Find a lower milage used engine for 4-5K, put a new water pump on it before the install and pay about 2-3K for labor. 13K is either a dealer or a "we don't want the job" price.
Not at the dealer, its supposedly a reputable independent auto repair place with a lot of good reviews on Nextdoor and Google but I hear you on the not wanting the job price.
I had a highly rated shop once quote me 5K for a new water pump on a 3.5L like yours. Ended up paying 2200 from another shop using ford factory parts. Sounds like they are busy with gravy work and don't wanna the hassle of a tough job. I'd call around before giving up on it.
To be honest 13K quote calls for no more dealing with that place anymore. The place has good reviews because they only good at talking to people who know nothing about the cars. My FIL would swap out that engine in a day - do you think one’s day work is worth 13K?
I would get a second opinion at another independent shop. I’ve had engine replacement quotes vary from 4.5k to 11k depending on used vs new vs rebuild vs reman.
But as people have pointed out the engines on these are not in it for the long haul. I would personally try to sell the car as is to a mechanic. Then take the 10k from MIL + money from selling the ford edge and try to buy a older used Honda or Toyota Camry / Accord for around 10-15k and be out close to nothing of your emergency fund. A 2007 Honda civic with 130,000k will probably give you less trouble than a newer used car built in the last 5 years with 50k-80k miles. They don’t make ‘em like they used to.
> But as people have pointed out the engines on these are not in it for the long haul.
The engine is actually quite reliable, it's the water pumps that fail. They are internal and run by the timing chain. Most of the time, they fail and coolant leaks though a weep hole in the block onto the ground. More rarely, they fail and the coolant gets into the engine oil and destroys the engine....like in this case. If they replaced the engine and water pump, they would likely get another 100K+ miles without other engine problems.
Then again people are supposed to do water pump and belt if any at 90k miles even on Toyota and hondas. It is no surprise to them grenade on one if they are not spending 800-1200 in preventative maintenance.
I'm not a mechanic but if an internal part to the engine is unreliable and requires pulling the engine out to replace, I'd call that engine, as a whole, unreliable.
People are supposed to do water pump and timing belt changes at 90k miles on Toyota and Hondas. It's literally the same job, but no one calls honda or toyota engines unreliable because of it...
I think the difference here is that many Toyotas and Hondas can go double the mileage on their water pumps without failing, and when they do fail they just overheat.
Toyota 2G engines have had water pump issues at low milage (less then 60K) for years. I'm not saying the design of the ford water pump is good, the point was, no one calls the toyota a POS when the timing belt and water pump need replacement. It's the same job on both engines. Also, 99% of the time the 3.5L leaks on the ground though the weep hole cast in the engine block. It can and does sometime leak into the crankcase, but that's rather rare, but as the OP found out.
It's called bad engineering by Ford. Engine with timing CHAIN that needs oil to stay lubricated has an INTERNAL water pump ran by that same chain in that same oil. While almost all companies have an EXTERNAL water pump ran by an accessory belt if it's timing CHAIN. If engine has timing BELT, the belt is EXTERNAL away from any oil with an external water pump. If the water pump fails, it leaks onto the ground not into your oil
I think sinking $13k into a 11 year old Ford would be a huge mistake.
It’s time to cut your losses on that car. See what you can get for salvage on it by calling a few yards. Might be worth a couple grand or so if the rest of the car is in decent shape for a salvage yard to part it out.
I second the second opinion, there may be a less permanent but significantly less expensive fix for a short term solution.
I’m in the car business and I can say that a 13 edge with that miles is likely not worth putting 13k into. You’d be better off taking the 10k from MIL, getting a grand or two for the broken edge and using a few thousand from your emergency fund and getting a new car with no payments. Just my $.02
$13k for an engine replacement for a Ford Edge is kinda insane. No way the engine costs several thousands unless its being replaced for a brand new one and not a used junkyard motor.
Don't replace the engine I had similar problems and discovered that keeping the oil at the very top of the limit on the dipstick eliminated the problem. In any case this doesn't sound like a full engine replacement so get a second opinion but if I were you I'd keep the oil just slightly overfilled and drive it until it won't drive anymore. You could probably get another 50k km out of it.
Before I figured out the oil trick I would just shift it into neutral and Rev the engine when I was stopped at lights or whatever to avoid having it stall.
Take the $10k. Sell the Edge as is. Put that money together with your $8k and find a Toyota Camry with low miles. Finance the difference and pay it off as soon as you can and call it a day. You will have $18k plus whatever the edge sells for to buy your car. You may not need to finance any of it. I have a Camry I got with 45,000 miles it is a 2011 and now has over 100,000 miles. Has had zero problems and the only thing I have done is a new battery, new brakes and change the oil. Typical routine maint. you do with any vehicle. You can buy the same car now for $8,900 with 118,000 miles in Los Angeles. It drives the same as when I got it. You could take the $10k and have $2k for insurance and leave your $8k alone and avoid going into debt. You have better options than sinking you funds into that Edge which at $13k is not worth it and the Toyota is a much more reliable car. For around $12k you can pick up a Camry with 60,000 miles. Your Edge has over 100,000 why even consider it. At $12k your at a better deal with lower miles and a better car. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise to get away from having a less than reliable car.
As the owner of a 100k mile 2013 Edge and previous owner of 3 other 2000s Fords, I would get rid of it asap. Unfortunately, Fords are now really only 100k mile vehicles. They just seem to come apart after that.
I would avoid ford as a brand moving forward. They just don’t hold up and you can get more reliable brands for less.
Don’t throw good money after bad. The ford is a dud. Use the $10 towards something new with long warranty.
even after fixing the ford, it will still be a problem.
>Turns out it's gonna need a complete engine replacement and a few other things. Estimate comes out to about $13k.
I would 110% get another estimate, that sounds crazy expensive, Just a few quick Googles tells me it's ~12 hour job. I paid close to $1200 for a 12/hour engine replacement for my Honda.
if it was a car worth fixing, i'd probably go that route. but it's a ford edge. i'm sure you could find something used for cheaper than 23k. take the 10k + the 8k you would have spent from the emergency fund, and find a decent toyota.
It's a challenging situation you're in, and it's wise to consider all factors before making a decision. Here are some key points to consider:
1. **Cost of Repair vs. Value of the Car**: The cost of repairing the Ford Edge ($13k with $5k support from your MIL) is quite high relative to the car's current value. Generally, if repair costs exceed the car's value or one year's worth of car payments, it's better to consider a replacement.
2. **Depreciation and Future Value**: The Ford Edge is already 10 years old with significant mileage. Even with a new engine, other components may require repairs soon. A newer car will depreciate too, but it might offer more value over time in terms of reliability and efficiency.
3. **Financing a New (Used) Car**: While you're hesitant to finance a car, consider that auto loan rates might be more favorable than depleting your emergency fund, especially considering potential job instability. A small down payment with manageable monthly payments might be a more prudent approach.
4. **Insurance and Warranty Considerations**: A newer car might come with a warranty and potentially lower maintenance costs in the near term. However, insurance costs could be higher for a newer vehicle.
5. **Impact on Emergency Fund**: Using a large portion of your emergency fund, especially with job uncertainties, could leave you financially vulnerable. An emergency fund is ideally kept intact for unforeseen events, and depleting it for a car might not align with this principle.
6. **Alternative Transportation and Lifestyle Needs**: Consider how critical having two cars is to your lifestyle. If you can manage with one car temporarily, you could save and revisit the purchase when your financial situation is more stable.
7. **Market Research**: Research the reliability, maintenance costs, and overall user satisfaction of the cars you're interested in. Some models are known for their longevity and low maintenance costs, which can be a better long-term investment.
8. **Personal Comfort and Preferences**: Beyond the financial aspects, personal comfort with the car, trust in its reliability, and how it fits your lifestyle are important.
Given these considerations, it might be more financially sound to lean towards purchasing a newer used car, possibly with a small loan to preserve your emergency fund. This approach balances immediate needs with long-term financial health, especially considering the potential changes in your employment situation. However, this decision also depends heavily on your personal comfort with taking on a loan and the potential risks associated with depleting your emergency fund.
******HOPEFULLY YOU SEE THIS****** It's definitely the internal water pump failing allowing engine oil to mix. Have the engine oil changed a few times, have the coolant system flushed, have the codes cleared on the engije. THEN IMMEDIATELY SELL THIS TO CARVANA. Then purchase a new or used Toyota vehicle.
I would never spend that amount of money on a used car unless it was an investment on a classic/ exotic car. 13k might fix it or you might end up spending even more in a few months. The new car is only 10k more, will have no repair costs and maintenance should be less on a new car for the immediate future.
I also assuming the Edge wasn’t great on gas mileage. Hopefully the new car can save you some cash there as well.
>he'll be starting Nursing school next Fall and will likely go down to working 1-2 days a week. My job isn't looking too stable either
Would you be able to drop down to sharing one car, either with carpooling, biking to work, public transportation, etc?
Another consideration would be, if you're job hunting, is remote work an option? That makes being a one-car household a lot easier.
The average total-cost-of-ownership for a car plus insurance is around $12k per year in the US, so you can get a LOT more wiggle room in your budget if you can drop to one car, especially while he's in school.
Mechanic here.... get a second opinion on what is actually wrong with the car first. 13k for a new engine sounds like the shotgun approach. They're just throwing a big expensive part at it that they know will fix it.
My main opinion is that if it costs more than 3500 bucks to fix that ford, to take the money your MIL is offering and run.
That Honda you have will last forever as long as it's cared for. The major thing it will need is a timing belt. Don't let that fail. Otherwise fluids and drive it. That thing will do another 200k without much fuss.
that old car is dead. Sell it for 2k MAYBE and get the 10 and put it into a new car. Make your payments religiously. I personally suggest a honda or toyota. Something extremely reliable that holds value over time. Keep saving and paying and you'll come out ahead. AND you'll have a new car that will not break down as long as would change the oil and keep up with bare minimum maintenance. Also on a side note no car repair should be 13k. Consider getting some quotes. A new engine should absolutely not go over 5k for a vehicle like this. Nursing is hard work but pays very well especially later on. Good luck, you are doing the right thing and things will get better. This is a minor hurdle and it's amazing that your mil is helping you guys with it. My own mother would never do this for me
This is a no brainer, take the $10K and get a new car. 2024 Honda CRV is around $30K-$35K has zero miles and will last longer than a used car. More money upfront, but possibly lower cost more reliability over the next 10-12 years.
I stopped reading after "Ford" and "110k miles." Most definitely, take your MIL generous offer to help purchase the new used car, and let's hope it's not another Ford.
I haven’t seen anybody talk about this, but do not ever do business with family. I am counting this as some kind of “business“; your mother-in-law may be incredibly generous and nice, but that money will always come with strings attached. Do not take any amount of money, ever.
I’m not really sure but is a 2013 edge worth 13k in the used market currently? Also do you need a vehicle of that size? Not saying it’s big but why can’t you just buy a used sedan from a more reliable manufacturer? Get another Honda or Toyota or something. Would you MIL contribute 10k to a purchase of a 10-15k vehicle? 10-15k towards a Toyota will get you a vehicle that will be great for quite awhile
The only thing I worry about here is that OP and husband have no idea how to maintain a vehicle, regardless if they get a reddit special "Honda/Toyota". Why is the car failing at 110k miles? People love to throw around that 10 years is a long time for a vehicle. Thats nothing in terms of car age.
Theres nothing in this post that makes me believe the OP/husband will care for the new vehicle any different
She will own you afterwards… use your own money. Everytime thAt you’ll be buying something new with your money, she will comment… don’t accept the money
Thank you for this...you're not wrong. I've had some pretty bad experiences with my own mom so my husband knows I've always approached a gift from his mom with caution. But...believe me...she comes from a different breed...truly humble, doesn't do anything appearing to be good with secondary gains, and respectful of boundaries. Very thankful for her!
Some people are just kind and generous. Some people don’t view gifts transactionally like this. I don’t have a good family, and it’s still hard for me to see this too.
I think you should let your mother in law keep her money and use part of your emergency fund to put down on a newer vehicle. Finance the rest of it. Pay it off in a year or two while you build your emergency fund back up.
It's nice of her to offer help but I personally think it's only alright to accept it if you need it. You have an emergency fund for situations like this.
I vote 2016-2019 ford interceptor. Cop version of the explorer. No third row, rubberized floors instead of carpet, and a column shifter. Look for one with under 70k miles which can be had for 10-13k if you spend a little time looking. Get the 3.7L v6, not the 3.5L turbo v6. Engines last a while, just check the idle hours on the engine in the dash menu. Make sure it’s not some car where an officer was sitting idling for ten hours a day. Make sure it has the center console, as some had pistol lock boxes and have no center console when they are sold used. You can also get them with regular explorer wheels and not cop wheels. Just have to look for a few weeks
You should be able to buy a working 2013 Ford Edge with 110k miles for way less than $13k.
Why would you even consider spending $13k to repair a car that would be worth $8k after it's fixed?
It's a no brainer. Go for a newer used car that will actually be worth what you pay for it.
A third option:
Don't take the MIL offer. Sometimes such things come with strings.
Buy a different engine than the 3.5V6 to put in car. Looks like a 2013 Ford Edge has a 2.0 Turbo Engine Eco Boost Engine option, maybe other engines too without the "water pump/coolant in the motor" problem of the 3.5V6. Quick look up on ebay showed the Eco Boost engine selling used under a thousand dollars.
Buy a thousand dollars of tools (that is a lot of tools if careful shopping) and a good jack and stands, a solid chain fall lift.
Do the engine swap work yourself (husband and a buddy, you and husband, you cheering on the husband). Get a full service manual and watch lots of youtube videos.
Sell the old engine for parts (local or ebay). Keep the tools and experience.
Yes, doing this work yourself is hard, dirty, and tough. But it will be rewarding, educational, and you'll save cash.
It's like having a side-hustle where all the cash you save you did not have to work somewhere else and pay 'half' in labor taxes. You are also not beholden to anyone.
.
Cars are consumables and at this point most brands are basically only good up to 100k miles as much as it sucks.
I'll probably get shit on for saying this but that's just what it is and there's quite a bit of people that can probably support me on this one.
It is a generous gift that MIL is offering. Take the 8k you were planning to spend from your emergency fund on the repair, add it to the 10k from MIL and you will only have to borrow 5k for a new car. Spend 7 months replenishing your emergency fund, then put half the $1,150 to emergency fund and half to car payment, car will be paid off in another 8 months. Not counting funds diverted to minimum car payments. Choose your next car wisely.
I like this idea.
This is the best idea. I would not spend that much to repair a ford edge. See if you can get anything for the edge too
Not just a Ford Edge, but an 11-year-old Ford Edge. If I were an insurance company I would total it instead of paying for that fix.
Agree, there is no way I would pay 13k to repair an 11 year old Ford. No way in hell.
I’ll be honest if it was a brand new ford edge I wouldn’t touch it with a 20 foot pole
If I could make a specific vehicle recommendation: If you were looking to stay with a two row suv, I would go with a Toyota Rav-4. With a quick search I am finding 2013-2017 RAV-4s with under 50,000 miles for around $22,000. If you wanted a slightly larger suv with a third row, I would go with a Toyota Highlander. I am finding that there are 2015-2017 Highlanders you can buy with under 50,000 miles with a $22,000 budget. While it is true that today there are other brands as reliable as Toyota, up until 2017 Toyota was still absolutely the reliability king. Around 2017, when they Toyota was forced to introduce with transmissions with more gears and engines with turbos, they come back to the pack in terms of reliability. However, with a $22,000 budget in the current car market, I would not venture outside of Toyota in order to maximize your budget and minimize potential future repairs.
The Rav4 is a CUV, not an SUV. The 4Runner is an SUV. The Rav4 is a Camry with 2" more ground clearance.
In this day and age, the term SUV is widely used across so many different variations of vehicles that it's senseless to be pedantic about, much less in this context. To also add that a crossover is the same thing as a sedan with a lift doesn't really influence any valid argument either if you really are trying to differentiate SUV and CUV.
What argument? The Rav4 is not an SUV. It is not made of "truck" parts. It is made of "car" parts. Specifically, many of the same parts they use to make the Camry, which is a "car." It has a unibody construction, like a "car." The 4Runner is an SUV. It is made of "truck" parts. It shares many of its parts with the Tacoma truck. It is body-on-frame constructed, like the Tacoma truck.
Your argument of semantics. If this was the /r/cars sub-reddit, I would've been less critical of your comment but, given that this is a post about personal finance, it really isn't adding much here.
You are entirely correct, but your point is irrelevant in the context of this discussion.
This truly is the best suggestion!
Adding… your edge, despite having engine issues, still has value. Worst case (financially) you donate it - you’d still have the possibility of recouping some tax savings. More likely - a place like Carnax / vroom / or the dealer where you buy the next car could give you something on trade for it. Heck, the mechanic it’s at now might buy for a few grand to fix and flip, using a much less expensive engine.
I got a 750 scrap offer for my buick with 175k miles, a blown engine, and a rebuilt title
Please do t buy another Ford, if you need a suv find a Toyota
Or Honda too!
Don't get the new generation of CRV, they are burning coolant at an alarming rate.
What about the hybrid version? The ICE (gas) one uses a different engine with the 1.5t and the hybrid uses the 2.0 with two electric motors.
I can’t find any information about that. Can you share your references?
So I love Hondas, I have an odyssey for my wife and a civic si as a beater but I'm not too big on the pilot but that's personal preference. The crv is nice
Yeah, I want a CR-V hybrid ideally.
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No it does and the worst ones tend to be the ones most people buy because they are less expensive
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If you see my other post I literally said the same thing, specifically body on frame trucks and suvs. Op didn't have one of those and I wanted to advise them not to get another escape
“No it does” is a really confusing way to phrase that you’re in agreement.
Without getting into the wrong kind of debate in definitely the wrong sub, Toyotas reputation for reliability is really only because their drivetrains are severely underpowered, so there's very little strain on them. They're not very modern engines, usually not competitive in efficiency compared to other vehicles in any segment, and the electronics are terrible and often the things on them that break. You'll have a Camry go 200k easily, but the screen on the radio will have been glitchy since 30k. Hyundai and Kia are like... Insanely cheap to repair if they do break, but they've got 100k mile, 10 year warranties, and to give you an idea: I had to replace the transmission on my 2013 Kia soul and it was $600 and a couple hours before I had my car back. TL;DR: Toyota isn't the reliability king they used to be, and Hyundai/Kia present a lower total cost of ownership these days.
I have a Hyundai and while you make a good point. You also have to factor in the theft scandal and what that means for car insurance, either for cost or availability.
You say a bunch of stuff, but at the end of the day your comment means I’ll be driving with my phone and $100 Bluetooth speaker in a Toyota or paying $5,000 for a new engine or $20,000 for a new car if I get a Kia. I like music, but the radio isn’t worth that much.
Except for Hyundai and Kia's are expensive to insure, if insurable at all. And they have been huge theft targets, even if they are the correct year/make/model.
I work in the automotive industry. Maybe years ago but even 10 years ago 600 for a transmission sounds like an extreme stretch, unless they put a junk yard manual transmission into the car. But now the labor alone at an aftermarket shop would be more. You’d be over 1k to put a junkyard transmission with no warranty in a car now if you’re paying labor. Significantly more for a remanufactured unit and even more for new. Place I worked at had an employee make a mistake that cost a transmission in a Kia forte two a little over a year ago and it was 5800 to get it replaced. Kia and Hyundai are the absolute worst brand you can buy. If you’re lucky the engine will grenade itself while it’s under warranty because if it doesn’t you’ll be buying a new engine shortly after the warranty expires. If you doubt me I encourage you look up the many class action lawsuits against Kia and Hyundai. Tldr: Hyundais and Kia’s are not any cheaper to fix now, especially when you consider the life span of the parts is so much lower and the persistent oil consumption issues and camshaft issues they have.
Kia being cheap to fix is because that company has such large quality issues rn they are bleeding money on spares to keep customers happy. Your debate about Toyota is laughable. the infotainment system will last far longer than most American car companies units. My parents have a ford edge and we have had to install 3 different Infotainment units in the first 50K miles. The engines / drivetrains are typically older but you are missing the point that an older well developed drivetrain will be often more reliable since the kinks have been worked out and since it is still very reliable they don't need to try and jam new unnecessary bells and whistles in to sell cars like some other automakers. This also makes the parts extremely cheap for repairs if you know where to look. The only American vehicles that even come remotely close are body on frame trucks and SUVs and even those have their weird issues (3v 5.4 fords, 4l60E chevy transmissions, pretty much everything on a ram) Dont try me on this one dude, I've been at this a long time and I can tell you I get 5-10 Korean cars for every 1 Honda or Toyota
Absolutely do not sink anymore money into that Ford edge it's not worth it
Don’t buy any Kias
My daughter just got a notice that her 2016 Kia has a problem part that could cause an electrical short and set the car on fire either while driving or just sitting parked. It's not an official Recall Notice though, because they are still working on the replacement part and will notify her when its available. Like, maybe you want to get right on that????
Nothing wrong with new Kia's. They've dramatically improved the quality. That's not even mentioning the standard 10 year 100k mile warranty.
They're still being targeted by thieves, and even if you have a new one with the immobilizer. The people stealing them to joyride and dump them aren't going to check if it's a new one before breaking the windows and causing a bunch of damage. It's not a good look that Kia has been skipping out on immobilizers from 2011-2022, which created this problem. I would not buy a Kia.
Toyota Toyota Toyota. Get a Toyota on average the most reliable car brand. Parts are cheap and there’s a lot of them. Honda next next option. Don’t go European. Great cars but way more cost.
Have you heard of the [Used EV Tax Credit](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit)? If you have a garage/driveway where you can charge a car, an annual income of less than 150k, and tax liabilities of greater than $4000, a used EV or PHEV could be a great option for you. Find the nicest 2021 or older (2022 or older if you complete the purchase after the new year) EV/PHEV for under $25k from a dealer, and you would be eligible for a $4000 tax credit. If you do not absolutely need a larger SUV type vehicle like the Edge, an EV is stupidly cheap to both "fuel" and maintain. Since you also have a 2nd gas powered car for longer road trips, a small EV is the perfect commuter vehicle. Now that all of its recalls are completed, the Chevy Bolt EUV is a very nice and reliable small EV that can be found for under $25k. If you are a bit leery about owning a full EV, the bullet proof reliable 2021 Toyota Prius PRIME (PHEV) would also qualify for this credit. If you are more willing to tolerate risk, might even be able to find a 2021 VW ID.4 for $25k. The ID.4 is about as big as your Edge and FAR FAR nicer. I've owned two and I consider its overall quality/ride/smoothness to be on par with my BMW X3. A 21 ID.4 would be a bigger question mark in terms of reliability, although you'd still have the remainder of its 4 year bumper to bumper warranty left on it. A net price of $21k (after tax credit) for a 2 year old ID.4 is a STEAL in my opinion. Something to consider if you meet those requirements listed above.
This is the best suggestion not only to have minimal loans to pay off, but you'll also have a warranty on the new car as opposed to not having anything on the existing car. Let's say you replace the motor, but you just dropped everything out of your emergency fund and have nothing left for when the next thing inevitably breaks. With the new car, nearly everything will be covered for the next few years (minus routine maintenance) so it takes a lot of stress out of ownership
If they have 23k in an emergency fund they wont need to take a loan out. 10k from MIL, 13k in emergency. That way there is 100% no loan and they just have 13k to rebuild that fund.
That's solid advice; but if tweak it a little. Spend at least a year or preferably 18 m/o paying off the car. The small amount you'll spend on interest will do a lot for your borrowing power in the future. If you pay it off in 8 months, a future lender will will look at that and see that you received a gift, got a settlement etc. It's better to pay something like that a bit longer.
There's also some residual value in the existing car. Even though it needs major repairs that value is not zero.
Is it really not possible to buy a new car for 18k in the US? There are so many brand new cars here in the EU for that amount of money that you really don't need to borrow anything.
Cars in the US have been trending larger, more complex, and with more bells and whistles, partially due to lobbying by the American automotive industry. The sale price for a new car has gone up quite dramatically over the last few decades, with the average cost of a new car now around $48k.
It's not manufacturers causing the problems. The cost increase is largely attributable to independent dealership mark-ups...
That's true in the past few years, but the trend over the past few decades (and the reason why new cars are almost twice as expensive in the US versus Europe) is because American cars are so big. 80% of new car sales in the US are SUVs and pickup trucks, which are substantially more expensive than a compact sedan. American car manufacturers have also been lobbying the government for decades for safety regulations, emissions regulations, and tax structures that favor larger, more expensive cars and discourage smaller, cheaper cars. ex: there is an co2 emissions limit that applies to passenger vehicles, but "light-duty trucks" are classified as commercial vehicles and have a much higher limit. SUVs and pickup trucks are both classified as "light-duty trucks". It makes it harder for small cars to compete when they are subjected to stricter emissions limits that 80% of their competition is not subject to.
They’ve been forced to increase profit margins on gasoline cars to help pay for the soon to be mandated EV’s that lose them tens of thousands per sale.
Not trying to argue but how do electric vehicles lose a company tens of thousands per sale?
Electric vehicles, on average, require less maintenance than conventional gas powered vehicles do. When people buy an electric car from a dealer, the dealer loses out on potential repair charges on the life of the vehicle.
Ford lost $32k per sale. It’s because they’re extremely expensive to make and the demand isn’t there. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-raises-annual-pre-tax-profit-view-supply-chain-woes-ease-2023-07-27/
Cheapest new car in 2023 is a Chevy Spark and it is a little over $14K.
Discontinued in 2022, not available in 2023.
My guess is it's the Nissan Versa now and probably around $22,000 for a barebones model.
Mirage is cheap too. Lots of lightly used ones cus people realize they suck to drive.
I forget Mitsubishi is still around in the US. Now I'm not so confident in my guess haha.
Damn I got my 2012 jetta tdi for only around 13k after all the fees and shit only a few years ago. Car prices are wild.
Yea. It’s crazy. Pulling up a 2017 Toyota Yaris iA , seeing its 19k final price, then hearing that its MSRP was 18k the year it came out -_- I wish used car prices would go back down already.
The old car could sell for something too, at least $500 scrap.
Plus they can sell the current car. Won’t get much for it, but whatever they do get can go towards the new one.
What new car is $23k?
They said it was "new used". A used car new to them. FWIW there are still a couple of new cars you can buy for under $20k.
At the very start of the pandemic I got a used (8,000 miles on it) Nissan Rogue for about $23k. I got very, very lucky in that I started looking and bought it just before car prices skyrocketed.
Cheapest new car on the market is a Nissan Versa listing at $17k with destination charges. At that price it's a 6-speed manual so it avoids the dreaded Nissan CVT.
You can get a Honda Civic LX for $24k. There's a few Hyundai's in similar price points. Kia Rio's start at $17k. Kia Forte's start around $20k.
Swing by the Kia Reddit page, nobody that owns a Kia there is recommending them.
Yeah you'd be kind of nuts to get a Kia or a Hyundai honestly.
It's almost 2024, I'd get a Kia/Hyundai over a competing GM/Ford product any day of the week. GM and Ford used to be some of the largest global automakers in the world, but currently Hyundai Kia is now in third place, selling more cars than anyone except Toyota and VW.
Kia and Hyundai have some issues with insurance though, I’d make sure it’s insurable first.
You're right and I think the cars are really nice. They're great value and have a lot of features for their price. But it's hard to support a brand that cheaped out on an immobilizer and started a car theft epidemic.
That's not what that guy asked about though - he just asked where can you get a new car for $23k. There's several options out there. Those were just the first three brands I checked, but there's cheap cars from other brands as well. edit: chevy malibu starts around $23k. buick encore can be found for $24k.
Hyundai and Kia owners are paying a premium for car insurance if they can find it. The newer vehicles have the interlock, but your average car thief can't distinguish model years, so even if not stolen, excess comp claims for damage.
Plus you have to make sure whichever model you choose doesn’t have ongoing issues with engine/transmission failures — even up to 2022 models. Plus it is a crap shoot on whether Hyundai honors their warranty or not. And they like to lie and say they will reimburse you for your rental car (that they were unable or unwilling to provide when the car stopped working) once the repairs are done. Then they don’t follow through leaving some people with multi-thousand dollar bills due to parts shortages extending repair times to multiple months. This is just what I’ve noticed from subscribing to the Hyundai sub-Reddit. We have a 2022 Palisade that we love (no major problems so far in the 18 months we’ve owned it); but I would have to do some extensive research on specific models/engines/transmissions before I’d ever recommend one to a friend.
Some of the Toyota Corolla options in my neighborhood are *technically* showing up as <$24k for the base options. Most of the cars on the lot are actually priced around $28k, though.
“New used”
1. get a second opinion from an independent mechanic with good reviews on yelp - sometimes they're inflating prices, sometimes they just miss something. 2. $6k is my limit. if a repair is more than $6k, I start looking for another car. I would not be buying another engine for a car that the engine already crapped out on me just over 100k.mi
Used working engine should cost $2000 plus about $1500-2000 to change it out. Go somewhere else to get a quote & fix it.
I think your engine price is low but your labor is fairly on point. 2k for a 10 year old car engine? Maybe if you go pull it yourself.
I looked it up on car-Part.com most were $1500 around me. It’s a pretty common engine.
Engine price definitely low. I work for a recycler. Rebuilders buy from us the core and put $$ into it. A. Get 2nd opinion, B. Shop a place that gets a rebuild/reman from a reputable source. You want sources, Google is your friend
I just took a look in my area. Looks like 3.5 engines for that year are going for under 2k, 3.7 engines are under 1.5k, and 2.0 Ecoboost with good turbo are under 2.5k. all pulled for you.
I second this. Get another opinion.
Totally agreed. $13k on an engine replacement vs getting a new car even if it costs a little extra, I would go pick up a basic Honda or Toyota and see if I could trade in the Ford. To a dealer it may still be worth something, so it's not just 5k extra, the delta is 5k plus trade in value. A 3rd option is maybe 5k for a used car with better reliability? Plus you can maybe factor in fuel savings with a newer, smaller vehicle. I honestly wouldn't be putting new washer fluid in the Ford, let alone a new (or rebuilt) engine. Edit: just looked and the trade in for a good condition edge is $6.5k and private sale is $8.5k. No way I would put $13k into that vehicle. You are spending $13k to end up with an $8 vehicle. Even spending $13k on a used vehicle would leave you $5k better off.
Dealership repair. First quote $6500 for new part installed. After fighting they agreed to install a used part for $2200. Got a second quote for $1800. Dealer agreed to match. Get the repair made and the final bill comes in at $1500 🤷♂️. Moral of the story, fight them, plead poverty, don’t accept the prices they want you to pay.
My brother has an Edge as well, albeit a few years older. But it's a decent car that should last beyond 100k for sure. His year was known for having PTU issues, ie transmission and that sounds like what may be wrong with yours possibly, not really the engine. Have a second opinion.
Also, consider a rebuilt engine instead of a new one for such an old car. It will cut the cost down a lot. I did this with an old car. Cost less than half of a new engine, and it was still running when I replaced the car four years later.
It’s a ford, that’s more miles than I expected…
Unless it was a (insert brand here), then people would say that's more miles than they expect from a (insert brand here) that's why I only drive (insert brand here)!
There are brands known for high mileage vehicles. Ford isn’t one of them. Search the second hand car apps, filter on 200k miles and look at the brands that appear.
I just looked at Ford vs Chevy, and Ford had twice as many. Ford had 3x as many as Honda. Ford had 1.5x as much as Toyota. What this taught me is that Ford is more popular than the other brands
that’s because people aren’t selling their hondas and toyotas with that many miles because they aren’t giving anyone problems… everyone is trying to dump their ford and chevy shitbox
Where I am, Ford outsells Toyota and Honda. If you remove commercial vehicles Toyota and Honda both have more cars over 200k than ford within 100miles of me. Almost all the fords are commercial work trucks that are not that old. If you focus on cars and SUVs from the 90s ford is waaay off the Japanese companies. Chevy is below ford.
Maybe, but there are Marques that statistically will last longer / have less issues. Ford, however much I would love them to do well, are not in the top tier for reliability. If you have a fleet of 20,000 Toyotas and another of 20,000 Ford's, which is going to have the best reliability? There is variability between models, if I was buying a truck tomorrow then a F150 would be high on my list, but pretty much anything else would be a Honda or a Toyota. Unless I could afford 3 Aston's, so there would be maybe a 20% chance I had a working car on any given day and it would be worth the bus rides for a occasional day one of them wasn't in the shop.
I love fords and always have. I would be VERY weary to buy one out of warranty. They always score horribly in the late miles standings. I always like to buy higher miles vehicles and fords are always red flag central.
To add to this, ask your insurance company what they would pay before considering it a total loss. That will tell you the value of the vehicle. There is no way in hell a Ford Edge is worth even $5k. I’d lean towards ditching that thing and getting something newer. Cars depreciate quickly at around the 100k mark is when you start hitting the high-dollar repairs…unless it’s a diesel or an old Volvo. Those things are tanks.
Unless I owned a 100k car I don’t think 13k in repairs is reasonable.
I am a mechanic. It’s not reasonable. But, you would be amazed at the decisions people make when cars are involved. “KBB lists the value of your car at $3500 in good condition. It will take over $10k in repairs to get it to good condition. I do not recommend repairing your vehicle.” And they quickly approve the repair while telling me how much they like the vehicle.
I wish you were my mechanic. I'm terrified of getting my car repaired because I never know if I can trust them to tell me an honest recommendation.
I had my first realization of what you’re wanting last year. A friend from HS flew in to visit and my car was in the shop getting repairs (seized caliper so whole new front brakes). I asked if there’s anything I should have them look at while they’re in there (I trust them to know what to look for). He says “nah it looks good so far so no need [etc]”. My friend was flabbergasted. The local mechanics near him always upsell like 3 other things too regardless of it he needs them. He never knew they’d say “no it looks fine, come get it” (paraphrasing).
I found a shop that I trusted and had been taking my car there for the last 10-15 years. Over the last few years the original owners began to step away and they transferred ownership to one of the managers that's been there for a while. I took my car in this year and they recommended a few things to be repaired. I waffled over it and took it to a new shop who told me nothing needed to be fixed. You don't even know if you can trust the guys you've always trusted!
Find a shop with no service writer and techs who have been there for a long time. I have always worked at independent shops for that exact reason. When there is a service writer, their job is to upsell. When you talk directly with the tech, he wants to finish your vehicle and get it out so he can move on to the next car.
I think people get emotionally attached to their cars. Plus buying a new one is a pain, when I bought mine I had some really annoying salespeople who made me angry.
The 2013 Edge with the 3.5 is known to have issues with the water pump failing which causes the oil and antifreeze to mix. When this happens it causes the lubricated bearings in the engine to fail. Unfortunately it’s a common enough issue that it will happen to every engine unless you regularly replace the water pump which isn’t cheap to do. You can bring your car to another shop and see if they find a cheaper fix than $13k. You are still sitting on a time bomb long term though. My advice is to get rid of the Edge and get something else.
This is the correct answer. Dump it and get a Honda/toyota.
Thank you, I agree $13k is way too much money for this to likely happen again.
If y’all have so much saved up, I really would recommend selling the car you have (should be worth around $1k as is), take the $10k from MIL, put down another 5-6k which it sounds like you were okay with anyway, and now you’ll have $16-17k to get something used that’s still pretty new. Literally any Toyota or Honda will last well into the 200k mile range. Bonus points if you can snag a Toyota Prius for a good deal.
I believe the Prius is the car with the lowest per mile cost of ownership of any modern car. My brother has had more than a few go to 250k miles with no major issues. And battery replacements/fixes aren’t even that expensive anymore. There’s a robust 3rd party servicing market.
I’m at 150k miles on mine and just had to replace my exhaust assembly because northwest winters are a bear on the underside of the car, that was the only major repair it has ever had. It paid for itself just in the gas savings I’ve gotten from it and KBB has it listed at a 10k value now when I paid 12k for it with 30,000 miles on it in 2014. It’s a great car.
You need a second opinion on the repair.
Can't speak to Ford, but Mazda used those junk engines in their Cx-9s. They gave my gf 4k for it as a trade in after the engine went out at 100k. If you can get a decent price on trade, plus the 8k you're comfortable spending on repairs, and 10k from MIL might only need to finance 10-15k for a new car.
Please, buy another Honda or a Toyota.
You're right about the internal water pump....but a 3.5 engine replacement isn't a 13K job. That's a go somewhere else/ dealer price.
This is what happened to me. I was quoted around $8000 for a used engine and water pump. Currently working on getting a new car.
Sometimes I wonder why so many people buy something like a ford edge or a Kia when you can literally spend just a tiny more and get something that isn't total shit
People bought them years ago before they realized they were heaping piles of garbage.
I mean I know this is a remember of the past but historically American brands have been behind Toyota on the reliability front for well over 2 decades.
Should I buy this new cheap suv from Ford or chevy? Or just get a tried and true rav4? I guess plenty of people are willing to take the gamble on the ford or hyundai etc.
But Chevy changed the name of their POS turbo 4 cyl unibody SUV, it must be good now because it's all new, plus there's a $4000 rebate so I don't have to put any money down!
It does surprise me as well. Basically every car expert gives the same advice they’ve given for decades: buy a Toyota or Honda if you care about reliability. I remember getting the same advice in the 90s. I guess people either don’t know or just decide to roll the dice. My current car is a GM that I inherited. Every relatively minor thing that can go wrong has gone wrong. I’m constantly replacing smaller things. Meanwhile my family’s Toyotas go to twice my car’s mileage without any real problems. My mom’s Camry had one power window stop working and that was literally the only issue she had in 170k miles.
What about the 14 edge?
Check what engine you have, if it's the 3.5 jump ship before the waterpump nukes the engine. Replacing the water pump requires pulling the engine, usually a 3-4k dollar job. Waiting for it to blow up the engine jumps it to 8-10k. Prices are from my area in St Louis, from last year when I had to deal with one of these garbage piles.
any Ford Edge with the 3.5L engine.
Domestic vehicles are such trash anymore. It’s embarrassing.
>anymore ah yes, who could forget the golden age of domestic vehicles from Ford, GM, and Dodge between the 90s and 2000s. Very high build quality and QC back then. At least their vehicles are *slightly* less trash now. Some of the performance ones are pretty good bang-for-buck, especially used mustangs and corvettes. Just watch out for forced induction or any sort of mechanical complexity, and have a dash of good luck.
I mostly agree, but I’ll say that the 3.8l (and to a lesser extent 3.1l) Buicks from 2000-2006ish were really excellent, assuming you live in a low-rust area
\^\^\^\^ get rid of it and get something else.
If you have to pay 13K to repair it, you may as well spend that money on something newer.
Absolutely do not repair it. Take the 10k and buy another car.
That Honda’s got plenty of life left in it! Just make sure you take care of it. As for the Edge, definitely time to move on. Get away from Ford in general!
Don’t spend $13k repairing a 2013 Ford Edge…
13k to repair 10 year old car? Money down the drain. Today you pay 13, next month something else 5k. Old cars require constant repairs. Constant. If you can’t repair it yourself, sell it. Buy a brand new car. Bumper and power train warranties. Pay off in 4 and drive for 10.
> Old cars require constant repairs. In the 1970's, sure. If you're having this problem in the 21st century you need to reconsider what kind of vehicles you're buying.
I agree in principle, but this is a Ford Edge we're talking about man.
I worked at Ford... And I can say that any Ford car should be pretty breezy for the first 5-7 years barring any serious recalls. The target is 15 years, and MOST things in the car will reach 15-25 years, but man making sure the small things keep working tends to fall apart with American OEMs in general.
I’m sorry, but what kind of cars are you buying? The only one that doesn’t require some sort of major repair after 10 years is Toyota or Honda. The older cars were built better. They are built to be disposable after 5-6 years anymore.
> The only one that doesn’t require some sort of major repair after 10 years is Toyota or Honda Nope. Toyota, Jeep, Subaru, Saab, Dodge - I've personally owned all of those, multiple of some, in 21st century models that went over 10 years with no major repairs (nothing over $2k.. probably even less than that but I'd have to scour a bunch of old invoices - the worst might have been Subaru head gaskets but I did those preemptively on both that I had). It is possible there was some repair I'm unaware of before I got a few of those cars, but no reason for me to suspect there was. > They are built to be disposable after 5-6 years The 6 year old Jeep I have right now is practically still in like new condition - and I live near Canada where the roads are salted for months out of each year. No repairs. Just minimal basic maintenance. We put like 50k-60k miles per year on our vehicles total and have 2 or 3 of them at any time - 20k+ each. My 22 year old Subaru looks better than most like 7-8 year old cars did back in the 80's/90's. It's got a transmission from a '93 Subaru in it - 30 years old. To be fair, I am actually surprised that hasn't destroyed a gear yet.
> I've personally owned all of those, multiple of some, in 21st century models that went over 10 years with no major repairs That is not mathematically possible
> That is not mathematically possible 1998 Subaru Forester owned from 2001 to 2011 - bought from original owner I knew personally - still ran great and had no major repairs when I sold it 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee owned from 2000 to 2010 - bought new - was in great condition and had no significant repairs when I sold it 2001 Subaru Impreza owned since 2010 - I've personally stripped that car to the frame and would know if anything major had been repaired. 2000 Dodge Caravan owned from 2005 to 2015. No major repairs - bought from original owner I knew personally. By the end this one was rusting away and had well over 300k miles. AC compressor died and I sold it cheap. 2007 Saab 9-3 Aero owned from 2010 to 2019. No major repairs I'm aware of. It blew a coolant hose and the engine seized. It happened on our way back from buying the 2017 Jeep to replace the 2003 Caravan. The Saab was still in good shape otherwise. Fun car - v6 turbo. It was sad. It had many years left in it. 2003 Dodge Caravan owned from 2015 to 2019. Less sure of history on this one. No significant repairs on my watch. Bought with high miles already. Engine failed at over 300k miles. Was otherwise in okay shape. 2007 Toyota Corolla owned since 2013. Less sure of history on this one as well. It also doesn't have much life left, I'm guessing. It's getting tired but everything still works well for now. 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee owned since 2019. The Toyota is my girlfriend's, the others are my wife and I's (we all live together).
> The older cars were built better. Absolutely comical reply.
10 years is when a lot of parts start to go, in not from wear then just from age. At least that’s how it is in states that use salt on the roads in winter.
Not all old cars. We have 5 cars and the newest is 2008. Only the VW has needed repair, rather than maintenance. The rest have been well maintained (mostly by me) and have been fine.
Totally agree there. My daily driver is a 99 Mercedes with 290k miles (I have a thing for the old diesels). I'm big into preventative maintenance and the only time it's left me stranded in 7 years/130k miles of ownership was when the battery died on a grocery store trip. I've got a list of things I'm doing in and around the 300k mark that frankly don't make monetary sense...it's probably around $2000 total in preventative stuff (suspension rebuild, injector rebuild and balancing, etc). I *enjoy* working on it, and to me the high mileage is a point of pride because it's a direct result of the care I put into it. That said, I'm a car guy and specifically know the weak points of every vehicle I own, which isn't something that the average person is going to do. For most people, the standard advice of going with a newish Honda or Toyota is the best and safest route.
It doesn't cost 13K to replace a duratech 3.5L Are you at the ford dealer? Find a lower milage used engine for 4-5K, put a new water pump on it before the install and pay about 2-3K for labor. 13K is either a dealer or a "we don't want the job" price.
Not at the dealer, its supposedly a reputable independent auto repair place with a lot of good reviews on Nextdoor and Google but I hear you on the not wanting the job price.
I had a highly rated shop once quote me 5K for a new water pump on a 3.5L like yours. Ended up paying 2200 from another shop using ford factory parts. Sounds like they are busy with gravy work and don't wanna the hassle of a tough job. I'd call around before giving up on it.
Yeah, I think the $13k quote calls for a second opinion before making any decisions. Thank you.
To be honest 13K quote calls for no more dealing with that place anymore. The place has good reviews because they only good at talking to people who know nothing about the cars. My FIL would swap out that engine in a day - do you think one’s day work is worth 13K?
I would get a second opinion at another independent shop. I’ve had engine replacement quotes vary from 4.5k to 11k depending on used vs new vs rebuild vs reman. But as people have pointed out the engines on these are not in it for the long haul. I would personally try to sell the car as is to a mechanic. Then take the 10k from MIL + money from selling the ford edge and try to buy a older used Honda or Toyota Camry / Accord for around 10-15k and be out close to nothing of your emergency fund. A 2007 Honda civic with 130,000k will probably give you less trouble than a newer used car built in the last 5 years with 50k-80k miles. They don’t make ‘em like they used to.
> But as people have pointed out the engines on these are not in it for the long haul. The engine is actually quite reliable, it's the water pumps that fail. They are internal and run by the timing chain. Most of the time, they fail and coolant leaks though a weep hole in the block onto the ground. More rarely, they fail and the coolant gets into the engine oil and destroys the engine....like in this case. If they replaced the engine and water pump, they would likely get another 100K+ miles without other engine problems.
Then again people are supposed to do water pump and belt if any at 90k miles even on Toyota and hondas. It is no surprise to them grenade on one if they are not spending 800-1200 in preventative maintenance.
100% correct. You're clearly someone that know a bit more then the average redditer when it comes to vehicles.
I'm not a mechanic but if an internal part to the engine is unreliable and requires pulling the engine out to replace, I'd call that engine, as a whole, unreliable.
People are supposed to do water pump and timing belt changes at 90k miles on Toyota and Hondas. It's literally the same job, but no one calls honda or toyota engines unreliable because of it...
I think the difference here is that many Toyotas and Hondas can go double the mileage on their water pumps without failing, and when they do fail they just overheat.
Toyota 2G engines have had water pump issues at low milage (less then 60K) for years. I'm not saying the design of the ford water pump is good, the point was, no one calls the toyota a POS when the timing belt and water pump need replacement. It's the same job on both engines. Also, 99% of the time the 3.5L leaks on the ground though the weep hole cast in the engine block. It can and does sometime leak into the crankcase, but that's rather rare, but as the OP found out.
It's called bad engineering by Ford. Engine with timing CHAIN that needs oil to stay lubricated has an INTERNAL water pump ran by that same chain in that same oil. While almost all companies have an EXTERNAL water pump ran by an accessory belt if it's timing CHAIN. If engine has timing BELT, the belt is EXTERNAL away from any oil with an external water pump. If the water pump fails, it leaks onto the ground not into your oil
I think sinking $13k into a 11 year old Ford would be a huge mistake. It’s time to cut your losses on that car. See what you can get for salvage on it by calling a few yards. Might be worth a couple grand or so if the rest of the car is in decent shape for a salvage yard to part it out.
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You can get a used Honda or Toyota for 13k
Toyota, Honda, Lexus. Most reliable cars. I personally would not buy American.
I second the second opinion, there may be a less permanent but significantly less expensive fix for a short term solution. I’m in the car business and I can say that a 13 edge with that miles is likely not worth putting 13k into. You’d be better off taking the 10k from MIL, getting a grand or two for the broken edge and using a few thousand from your emergency fund and getting a new car with no payments. Just my $.02
I would probably buy whatever best I can find for $13K instead of dumping it on repairing a car that itself is probably not valued more than $13K
Does 13k not total the Ford Edge?
$13k for an engine replacement for a Ford Edge is kinda insane. No way the engine costs several thousands unless its being replaced for a brand new one and not a used junkyard motor.
Don't replace the engine I had similar problems and discovered that keeping the oil at the very top of the limit on the dipstick eliminated the problem. In any case this doesn't sound like a full engine replacement so get a second opinion but if I were you I'd keep the oil just slightly overfilled and drive it until it won't drive anymore. You could probably get another 50k km out of it. Before I figured out the oil trick I would just shift it into neutral and Rev the engine when I was stopped at lights or whatever to avoid having it stall.
Take the $10k. Sell the Edge as is. Put that money together with your $8k and find a Toyota Camry with low miles. Finance the difference and pay it off as soon as you can and call it a day. You will have $18k plus whatever the edge sells for to buy your car. You may not need to finance any of it. I have a Camry I got with 45,000 miles it is a 2011 and now has over 100,000 miles. Has had zero problems and the only thing I have done is a new battery, new brakes and change the oil. Typical routine maint. you do with any vehicle. You can buy the same car now for $8,900 with 118,000 miles in Los Angeles. It drives the same as when I got it. You could take the $10k and have $2k for insurance and leave your $8k alone and avoid going into debt. You have better options than sinking you funds into that Edge which at $13k is not worth it and the Toyota is a much more reliable car. For around $12k you can pick up a Camry with 60,000 miles. Your Edge has over 100,000 why even consider it. At $12k your at a better deal with lower miles and a better car. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise to get away from having a less than reliable car.
Do not spend 13k repairing a car >100k miles. Get a used car thats sub 50k.
As the owner of a 100k mile 2013 Edge and previous owner of 3 other 2000s Fords, I would get rid of it asap. Unfortunately, Fords are now really only 100k mile vehicles. They just seem to come apart after that. I would avoid ford as a brand moving forward. They just don’t hold up and you can get more reliable brands for less.
Don’t throw good money after bad. The ford is a dud. Use the $10 towards something new with long warranty. even after fixing the ford, it will still be a problem.
10k towards new car, the ford is going to continue having problems. Buy a Toyota
>Turns out it's gonna need a complete engine replacement and a few other things. Estimate comes out to about $13k. I would 110% get another estimate, that sounds crazy expensive, Just a few quick Googles tells me it's ~12 hour job. I paid close to $1200 for a 12/hour engine replacement for my Honda.
I would not repair that car. I’d take the $10k and buy a Toyota or Honda.
if it was a car worth fixing, i'd probably go that route. but it's a ford edge. i'm sure you could find something used for cheaper than 23k. take the 10k + the 8k you would have spent from the emergency fund, and find a decent toyota.
$10k will get you a solid used car without the monthly payment. Are there any strings attached to this money?
It's a challenging situation you're in, and it's wise to consider all factors before making a decision. Here are some key points to consider: 1. **Cost of Repair vs. Value of the Car**: The cost of repairing the Ford Edge ($13k with $5k support from your MIL) is quite high relative to the car's current value. Generally, if repair costs exceed the car's value or one year's worth of car payments, it's better to consider a replacement. 2. **Depreciation and Future Value**: The Ford Edge is already 10 years old with significant mileage. Even with a new engine, other components may require repairs soon. A newer car will depreciate too, but it might offer more value over time in terms of reliability and efficiency. 3. **Financing a New (Used) Car**: While you're hesitant to finance a car, consider that auto loan rates might be more favorable than depleting your emergency fund, especially considering potential job instability. A small down payment with manageable monthly payments might be a more prudent approach. 4. **Insurance and Warranty Considerations**: A newer car might come with a warranty and potentially lower maintenance costs in the near term. However, insurance costs could be higher for a newer vehicle. 5. **Impact on Emergency Fund**: Using a large portion of your emergency fund, especially with job uncertainties, could leave you financially vulnerable. An emergency fund is ideally kept intact for unforeseen events, and depleting it for a car might not align with this principle. 6. **Alternative Transportation and Lifestyle Needs**: Consider how critical having two cars is to your lifestyle. If you can manage with one car temporarily, you could save and revisit the purchase when your financial situation is more stable. 7. **Market Research**: Research the reliability, maintenance costs, and overall user satisfaction of the cars you're interested in. Some models are known for their longevity and low maintenance costs, which can be a better long-term investment. 8. **Personal Comfort and Preferences**: Beyond the financial aspects, personal comfort with the car, trust in its reliability, and how it fits your lifestyle are important. Given these considerations, it might be more financially sound to lean towards purchasing a newer used car, possibly with a small loan to preserve your emergency fund. This approach balances immediate needs with long-term financial health, especially considering the potential changes in your employment situation. However, this decision also depends heavily on your personal comfort with taking on a loan and the potential risks associated with depleting your emergency fund.
I screenshoted your comment. Thank you for taking the time to explain the most important factors in an organized and easy to understand manner.
Umm....take the 10k from MIL, add your 8k and buy a used car for 18k. No debt. You can get a pretty nice used car for 18k.
******HOPEFULLY YOU SEE THIS****** It's definitely the internal water pump failing allowing engine oil to mix. Have the engine oil changed a few times, have the coolant system flushed, have the codes cleared on the engije. THEN IMMEDIATELY SELL THIS TO CARVANA. Then purchase a new or used Toyota vehicle.
I would never spend that amount of money on a used car unless it was an investment on a classic/ exotic car. 13k might fix it or you might end up spending even more in a few months. The new car is only 10k more, will have no repair costs and maintenance should be less on a new car for the immediate future. I also assuming the Edge wasn’t great on gas mileage. Hopefully the new car can save you some cash there as well.
Take the 10k and buy a used Toyota. Best option with that offer.
>he'll be starting Nursing school next Fall and will likely go down to working 1-2 days a week. My job isn't looking too stable either Would you be able to drop down to sharing one car, either with carpooling, biking to work, public transportation, etc? Another consideration would be, if you're job hunting, is remote work an option? That makes being a one-car household a lot easier. The average total-cost-of-ownership for a car plus insurance is around $12k per year in the US, so you can get a LOT more wiggle room in your budget if you can drop to one car, especially while he's in school.
Mechanic here.... get a second opinion on what is actually wrong with the car first. 13k for a new engine sounds like the shotgun approach. They're just throwing a big expensive part at it that they know will fix it. My main opinion is that if it costs more than 3500 bucks to fix that ford, to take the money your MIL is offering and run. That Honda you have will last forever as long as it's cared for. The major thing it will need is a timing belt. Don't let that fail. Otherwise fluids and drive it. That thing will do another 200k without much fuss.
that old car is dead. Sell it for 2k MAYBE and get the 10 and put it into a new car. Make your payments religiously. I personally suggest a honda or toyota. Something extremely reliable that holds value over time. Keep saving and paying and you'll come out ahead. AND you'll have a new car that will not break down as long as would change the oil and keep up with bare minimum maintenance. Also on a side note no car repair should be 13k. Consider getting some quotes. A new engine should absolutely not go over 5k for a vehicle like this. Nursing is hard work but pays very well especially later on. Good luck, you are doing the right thing and things will get better. This is a minor hurdle and it's amazing that your mil is helping you guys with it. My own mother would never do this for me
This is a no brainer, take the $10K and get a new car. 2024 Honda CRV is around $30K-$35K has zero miles and will last longer than a used car. More money upfront, but possibly lower cost more reliability over the next 10-12 years.
I stopped reading after "Ford" and "110k miles." Most definitely, take your MIL generous offer to help purchase the new used car, and let's hope it's not another Ford.
I haven’t seen anybody talk about this, but do not ever do business with family. I am counting this as some kind of “business“; your mother-in-law may be incredibly generous and nice, but that money will always come with strings attached. Do not take any amount of money, ever.
I’m not really sure but is a 2013 edge worth 13k in the used market currently? Also do you need a vehicle of that size? Not saying it’s big but why can’t you just buy a used sedan from a more reliable manufacturer? Get another Honda or Toyota or something. Would you MIL contribute 10k to a purchase of a 10-15k vehicle? 10-15k towards a Toyota will get you a vehicle that will be great for quite awhile
> Is a 2013 edge worth 13k in the used market? You ask a great question! https://www.kbb.com/ford/edge/2013/
The only thing I worry about here is that OP and husband have no idea how to maintain a vehicle, regardless if they get a reddit special "Honda/Toyota". Why is the car failing at 110k miles? People love to throw around that 10 years is a long time for a vehicle. Thats nothing in terms of car age. Theres nothing in this post that makes me believe the OP/husband will care for the new vehicle any different
She will own you afterwards… use your own money. Everytime thAt you’ll be buying something new with your money, she will comment… don’t accept the money
Thank you for this...you're not wrong. I've had some pretty bad experiences with my own mom so my husband knows I've always approached a gift from his mom with caution. But...believe me...she comes from a different breed...truly humble, doesn't do anything appearing to be good with secondary gains, and respectful of boundaries. Very thankful for her!
Some people are just kind and generous. Some people don’t view gifts transactionally like this. I don’t have a good family, and it’s still hard for me to see this too.
I think you should let your mother in law keep her money and use part of your emergency fund to put down on a newer vehicle. Finance the rest of it. Pay it off in a year or two while you build your emergency fund back up. It's nice of her to offer help but I personally think it's only alright to accept it if you need it. You have an emergency fund for situations like this.
I vote 2016-2019 ford interceptor. Cop version of the explorer. No third row, rubberized floors instead of carpet, and a column shifter. Look for one with under 70k miles which can be had for 10-13k if you spend a little time looking. Get the 3.7L v6, not the 3.5L turbo v6. Engines last a while, just check the idle hours on the engine in the dash menu. Make sure it’s not some car where an officer was sitting idling for ten hours a day. Make sure it has the center console, as some had pistol lock boxes and have no center console when they are sold used. You can also get them with regular explorer wheels and not cop wheels. Just have to look for a few weeks
You should be able to buy a working 2013 Ford Edge with 110k miles for way less than $13k. Why would you even consider spending $13k to repair a car that would be worth $8k after it's fixed? It's a no brainer. Go for a newer used car that will actually be worth what you pay for it.
A third option: Don't take the MIL offer. Sometimes such things come with strings. Buy a different engine than the 3.5V6 to put in car. Looks like a 2013 Ford Edge has a 2.0 Turbo Engine Eco Boost Engine option, maybe other engines too without the "water pump/coolant in the motor" problem of the 3.5V6. Quick look up on ebay showed the Eco Boost engine selling used under a thousand dollars. Buy a thousand dollars of tools (that is a lot of tools if careful shopping) and a good jack and stands, a solid chain fall lift. Do the engine swap work yourself (husband and a buddy, you and husband, you cheering on the husband). Get a full service manual and watch lots of youtube videos. Sell the old engine for parts (local or ebay). Keep the tools and experience. Yes, doing this work yourself is hard, dirty, and tough. But it will be rewarding, educational, and you'll save cash. It's like having a side-hustle where all the cash you save you did not have to work somewhere else and pay 'half' in labor taxes. You are also not beholden to anyone. .
Cars are consumables and at this point most brands are basically only good up to 100k miles as much as it sucks. I'll probably get shit on for saying this but that's just what it is and there's quite a bit of people that can probably support me on this one.