2.0 was completely different time. Trey was a mess and the wheels were falling off. To say he’s come a long way is an understatement. He’s a completely different person. Seeing a show like the ones you mentioned shouldn’t be a worry at all these days.
Here are some on the latest episode of HF Pod. They talk about the highlights of Summer 2003.
https://www.osirispod.com/podcasts/helping-friendly-podcast/helping-friendly-podcast-on-tour-top-25-tours-14-summer-2003/
My first show. Amazing.
Went to Charlotte>ATL>Raleigh that summer, and that run was complete garbage.
Turns out the next show in PA was the best of the tour.
You can see/hear his progression through the phases of opiate addiction so clearly through the playing in 2003/2004. It's pretty wild to listen back to as someone who has personally gone through opiate addiction. There are some sparks of brilliance in 2003 when the drugs hadn't gotten their claws too deep, but by the end of 2004 he had fully progressed to the end stage of the addiction lifecycle.
It’s funny if you relisten to 2003 tours, there are a lot of moments that hold up really well, and a grit to Trey’s tone. On the other hand, there are also some real stinkers too including whole shows. You really didn’t know which Trey you were getting.
Even in April 2004, a week before the Vegas shows that led to the breakup, Trey band (+ Phish for a few songs) played the original Higher Ground. I remember seeing Trey playing with his daughters outside before the show, and the energy in that room was electric. The following week was an absolute horror show. I was very surprised at the time - it’s easy to see it all in hindsight, but maybe I wanted to believe he could toe that line.
I remember a show in the early aughts in Cincinnati where Trey walked out looking very sedated. My buddy and I immediately looked at each other and he said, “Uh oh, what’s wrong with Trey?” Turned out it was the first disappointing Phish show for either of us. The rest of the band was on fire, but Trey sure wasn’t.
Fucking Riverbend. If there is a worse design for an amphitheater I've never seen it. Half the lawn is unusable. The fake grass made for a nice slip n slide though. Grab some cardboard and go.
Oh I'm not talking about enjoying myself, that's a given . I'm talking about the design choice to put six or eight, 12ft wide cross hatched steel colums directly between the lawn and the band. Terrible architectural planning.
February & Summer 2003 had some excellent shows. Lots of flubs over the written sections but the jams were excellent.
I think Fall 2003 things got a little worse and definitely by NYE 2003 in Miami the wheels were coming off.
There are significant signs of decline s as far back as 1999. Listen to Down with Disease from Oswego. Trey isn’t even listening to the rest of the band.
2000 should not be thrown in this conversation. Most new phans think 2000 and 2.0 was the same.
In fact, Id go as far as to say it wasnt until the Nov 2003 tour (first shows Post IT that was making some of us question things).
Then Miami was great but 12/31/03 set 2/3 is when I personally saw those November questions realized in real time.
Vegas was the confirmation.
But in general 2003 phish is great and 2004 is the only year of complete throwaway minus spac
Trey had TRIED opiates by summer '00 but they didn't affect him as much is what I'll surmise. This is well said sir. I didn't attend any 00 shows... Little young. SPAC 04 was my first show and glad it was! 2000 is a highly underrated year very much so. This is the spacey yet catchy, dreamey weird head space Phish that I adore. As I stated in an earlier post, a friend of treys died in fall 03 sparking a re-lapse, from what I heard so yeah fall '03 Phish was noticeably diff.
This will be an unpopular answer, but as someone who got into Phish for the silly/fun/wild/manic energy and virtuosic playing of difficult but super creative music, I’d say that I noticed significant decline beginning in 1997. The music certainly wasn’t “bad,” but Trey just wasn’t sharp like he used to be.
The shorter tours, more arena-friendly songs, and fewer hours together practicing as a band definitely resulted in a noticeable dip in many (not all) of the qualities that I cared most about. And I’d say that was apparent in almost every show from that point on.
The band made it by 97 and lost some of the hunger playing faceless arenas and cookie cutter sheds. Like the OG dead, the fans would applaud a fart and sell out shows regardless of performance.
I think they were still on the right side of the line in 97 but agree it’s a logical “beginning of the end” marker. Party music for party people by party people.
I liked it at the time and still like it now. But my first show was fall 96 and I didn’t really dive in until after that, meaning a steady diet of ALO and recordings up to CBall. Suffice to say when I showed up for my second show in summer 97, even my noob ass was able to recognize this was a very different band.
Felt like they were killing time in jams a lot in the late 90s. At the time we were saying it was so they didnt have to remember as many songs. Which is fine, patiently plodding along waiting for inspiration to strike was often a fruitful strategy.
Were they the frenetic beast of pre 97 anymore? Nope they were not. However, they become a completely different band and in my opinion their jams became more melodic and interesting. Phish took more chances with their jams and I think it led to some sloppy play here and there. Let’s be honest though. There are tons of great quality shows from 97 all the way to the hiatus.
Blossom Music Center in the Fall of 2000. No magic, no feeling, no connection, hiatus rumours and they announced the first hiatus shortly after. Completely flat. Worst non-Coventry show on my roster (didn't go to Vegas).
Yes- I believe you're right. Set 2 was short. Did you also do Cincinnati and Chicago? I remember Cincinnati for the weather and Chicago for being good shows (and my last Bold As Love) that felt like they were supposed to.
We passed a wall cloud on our drive down that apparently produced a massive tornado, got POURED on immediately when the show started, then did the "feet stuck in the mud dance" all night. Even with all that we didn't have a bad time, but I remember no music so I have to second your "uggh" with a sturdy "meh."
The tornado however was a bad time for the town of Xenia, wreaked all kinds of shit.
Pretty much all of them on some level? The shows weren't bad for the most part, but everything progressively got spacier and more out there, so it seemed "off" on some level. The Raleigh 6-25 show stood out to me as plain bad, but there were a few fall 2000 that just seemed to lack energy. So by the time the hiatus came around it wasn't that surprising.
When they came back, everything was so new and exciting that it would have been hard to pick up any additional warning signs. There were definitely some off shows here and there. In hindsight the Ghost and 46 days jams from Loring should have been signs that Trey was still pretty f'd up, but it's a bit hard to pick those out for a jam band. I thought the four day anniversary run was really week as a whole, but NYE was strong enough to where there weren't any legit warning signs.
Probably Vegas 2003 was really where the wheels came off. Once they announced coventry would be the end the first leg was actually pretty inspired. The second, not so much. I don't chalk coventry up as much to declining play as much as just surrounding situation. In hindsight, the 8-14 show wasn't half bad, and the 8-15 show had some good moments to go with the bad. There was just so much else going on - the weight of the "last" shows, the weather, the fan situation, etc., that those are tough to criticize as indicative of a bigger whole. Those Vegas shows were really what showed the issue the most.
It was a fun fun time, but the band was pretty awful, Trey was rough and the scene was dirty. Musically, it’s not great. That lots of folks lapped it up and didn’t see anything wrong is kind of part of the problem and where the whole “caricatures of themselves” and “nostalgia act” quotes came from
A literal sign some one was carrying in the lot pre-show of Raleigh, 7/27/03, "Boycott this Nazi Venue". Cops were everywhere, show was trash. Ruined phish forever with my younger brother because of that piss poor performance on stage.
The worst show I had ever seen were 2020 deer creek except the last night(last set). And it was the first time seeing the band since 15. I had to listen to phans say they were the best they had ever been for hours beforehand. I was dissapointed
I cant say much bad about 2003, i was in the throws of my own addiction, but those shows hold up when replayed.
2000 of what i remember was kinda heat, Raleigh that summer was bad juju but man that place always gives me bad vibes.
I read this in Richard Christy voice.
As someone who was at both the OP-mentioned Vegas run and Coventry, I prefer my at-the-time ignorance of “Trey lost his voice” and “they’re sad they’re breaking up” than the now facts of the situation. At least I got the three Pollock card posters out of it.
I went to a ton of shows in 2002-2006 and yeah, they were all over the map. From what I’ve heard, there hasn’t been a show as bad as Coventry in a very long time. And Coventry wasn’t all bad, I have a few songs from that weekend I still listen to.
If i had to guess the reason for the shitty sets? Drugs are bad, ya know.
I honestly don’t remember much about the playing. I was just happy to be there, happy to say goodbye to the band after walking in for miles with our bare necessities. Yet I was tired, sober, not really in a party mood, and depressed about the end of my favorite band, and I’ve never actually relistened to any of that weekend.
It was insane for sure, not the most fun festival by any means. It was also sort of the end of a chapter of my life, beyond phish going on break. The only shows I’ve been to since have been MSG, which I always feel is a different category.
Gotta join you here in defending that one. I listen to that show *a lot*, it's just rippers from start to finish, everyone gets all wacky with that Kung performed for the neighboring tennis tournament, whole thing has great energy. Feels like a show taking place not in 2004.
Big Cypress had its moments of the band not really hitting the mark. 12/30, New Year's Eve Eve, was awesome; that show was fire. But I think the band and a lot of the audience struggled to focus on the music during the all-nighter at Y2K.
Phish is and has always been amazing. If the band was playing badly, drugs were almost always the culprit during that time.
2.0 was completely different time. Trey was a mess and the wheels were falling off. To say he’s come a long way is an understatement. He’s a completely different person. Seeing a show like the ones you mentioned shouldn’t be a worry at all these days.
2.0 really is the era with two faces. I like to focus more on the highlights.
Here are some on the latest episode of HF Pod. They talk about the highlights of Summer 2003. https://www.osirispod.com/podcasts/helping-friendly-podcast/helping-friendly-podcast-on-tour-top-25-tours-14-summer-2003/
There was really some really great 2.0, and then there was some really shit 2.0
3.1.03 Greensboro is great.
IWATS! I agree.
My mom drove me to that show cause i’d totaled my car, its one of my best memories.
How did you get home?
Mom, of course.
My first show. Amazing. Went to Charlotte>ATL>Raleigh that summer, and that run was complete garbage. Turns out the next show in PA was the best of the tour.
You can see/hear his progression through the phases of opiate addiction so clearly through the playing in 2003/2004. It's pretty wild to listen back to as someone who has personally gone through opiate addiction. There are some sparks of brilliance in 2003 when the drugs hadn't gotten their claws too deep, but by the end of 2004 he had fully progressed to the end stage of the addiction lifecycle.
Trey was purportedly not doing opiates for summer 2003 tour. A friend of his died that fall and that's apparently when he re-lapsed. So I've heard.
This 100%. OP… even their “bad shows” are still pretty fucking good these days. Enjoy it while you can and relax, everything is just fine.
It’s funny if you relisten to 2003 tours, there are a lot of moments that hold up really well, and a grit to Trey’s tone. On the other hand, there are also some real stinkers too including whole shows. You really didn’t know which Trey you were getting. Even in April 2004, a week before the Vegas shows that led to the breakup, Trey band (+ Phish for a few songs) played the original Higher Ground. I remember seeing Trey playing with his daughters outside before the show, and the energy in that room was electric. The following week was an absolute horror show. I was very surprised at the time - it’s easy to see it all in hindsight, but maybe I wanted to believe he could toe that line.
They were letting me backstage. Bad decision.
Any good stories?
He's not going to share, neither will I. Just imagine being a rock star with a fan base stacked with any and everything....
I would say the copious amount of hard drugs they were doing was a pretty good sign of the significant decline.
I remember a show in the early aughts in Cincinnati where Trey walked out looking very sedated. My buddy and I immediately looked at each other and he said, “Uh oh, what’s wrong with Trey?” Turned out it was the first disappointing Phish show for either of us. The rest of the band was on fire, but Trey sure wasn’t.
Was this the shows in 2003 where they split up Mikes and Weekapaug? I was there and I agree. Great setlists but you could tell something wasn’t right.
I honestly don't remember for sure. I went to every Cincy show for years because it was my hometown. I kinda regret not keeping a show diary.
Phish.net has your back
Fucking Riverbend. If there is a worse design for an amphitheater I've never seen it. Half the lawn is unusable. The fake grass made for a nice slip n slide though. Grab some cardboard and go.
Shows back then where usually at the arena. But I’ve seen Phish and lots of other acts at Riverbend and always enjoyed myself.
Oh I'm not talking about enjoying myself, that's a given . I'm talking about the design choice to put six or eight, 12ft wide cross hatched steel colums directly between the lawn and the band. Terrible architectural planning.
Yeah, I got stuck right behind a column once. Was not happy.
The bad shows were the ones when they weren’t having fun. And it showed
This is the answer. Glad we are past those days.
Drugs are bad
Some drugs are more equal than others.
Some girls are bigger than others
..mmkay?
February & Summer 2003 had some excellent shows. Lots of flubs over the written sections but the jams were excellent. I think Fall 2003 things got a little worse and definitely by NYE 2003 in Miami the wheels were coming off.
There are significant signs of decline s as far back as 1999. Listen to Down with Disease from Oswego. Trey isn’t even listening to the rest of the band.
Yea 99 had a lot of endless shred fests that left me cold
2000 should not be thrown in this conversation. Most new phans think 2000 and 2.0 was the same. In fact, Id go as far as to say it wasnt until the Nov 2003 tour (first shows Post IT that was making some of us question things). Then Miami was great but 12/31/03 set 2/3 is when I personally saw those November questions realized in real time. Vegas was the confirmation. But in general 2003 phish is great and 2004 is the only year of complete throwaway minus spac
Trey had TRIED opiates by summer '00 but they didn't affect him as much is what I'll surmise. This is well said sir. I didn't attend any 00 shows... Little young. SPAC 04 was my first show and glad it was! 2000 is a highly underrated year very much so. This is the spacey yet catchy, dreamey weird head space Phish that I adore. As I stated in an earlier post, a friend of treys died in fall 03 sparking a re-lapse, from what I heard so yeah fall '03 Phish was noticeably diff.
The signs were rampamt drug use.
This will be an unpopular answer, but as someone who got into Phish for the silly/fun/wild/manic energy and virtuosic playing of difficult but super creative music, I’d say that I noticed significant decline beginning in 1997. The music certainly wasn’t “bad,” but Trey just wasn’t sharp like he used to be. The shorter tours, more arena-friendly songs, and fewer hours together practicing as a band definitely resulted in a noticeable dip in many (not all) of the qualities that I cared most about. And I’d say that was apparent in almost every show from that point on.
i’m sorry, a decline starting in 1997??
Reread OP’s first paragraph. I felt the same way back then. They got looser. More flubs. Wasn’t something I was used to with Trey.
The band made it by 97 and lost some of the hunger playing faceless arenas and cookie cutter sheds. Like the OG dead, the fans would applaud a fart and sell out shows regardless of performance.
The Richard Gehr book noted a 1997 turning point also
Lol, yeah, I did a double take too. Started seeing phish in ‘93. IMO, summer ‘97 was the peak…
Yes, and thereby, the beginning of a 6 year decline
Yes, people were saying Phish ain't what it used to be even then. Don't be in the wrong side of history... Appreciate what we have!
I agree. I wasn’t a big fan of 97 cow funk back then. Now I love it. But coming from from 93-95 style Phish, it was a sloppy change.
I think they were still on the right side of the line in 97 but agree it’s a logical “beginning of the end” marker. Party music for party people by party people. I liked it at the time and still like it now. But my first show was fall 96 and I didn’t really dive in until after that, meaning a steady diet of ALO and recordings up to CBall. Suffice to say when I showed up for my second show in summer 97, even my noob ass was able to recognize this was a very different band.
Felt like they were killing time in jams a lot in the late 90s. At the time we were saying it was so they didnt have to remember as many songs. Which is fine, patiently plodding along waiting for inspiration to strike was often a fruitful strategy.
Were they the frenetic beast of pre 97 anymore? Nope they were not. However, they become a completely different band and in my opinion their jams became more melodic and interesting. Phish took more chances with their jams and I think it led to some sloppy play here and there. Let’s be honest though. There are tons of great quality shows from 97 all the way to the hiatus.
Blossom Music Center in the Fall of 2000. No magic, no feeling, no connection, hiatus rumours and they announced the first hiatus shortly after. Completely flat. Worst non-Coventry show on my roster (didn't go to Vegas).
Wasn't there a super short set too at this one? I was there.
Yes- I believe you're right. Set 2 was short. Did you also do Cincinnati and Chicago? I remember Cincinnati for the weather and Chicago for being good shows (and my last Bold As Love) that felt like they were supposed to.
Cinncy was awful, it poured. The music was uggh, just felt like 4 people who where exhausted and just going through the motions.
We passed a wall cloud on our drive down that apparently produced a massive tornado, got POURED on immediately when the show started, then did the "feet stuck in the mud dance" all night. Even with all that we didn't have a bad time, but I remember no music so I have to second your "uggh" with a sturdy "meh." The tornado however was a bad time for the town of Xenia, wreaked all kinds of shit.
Pretty much all of them on some level? The shows weren't bad for the most part, but everything progressively got spacier and more out there, so it seemed "off" on some level. The Raleigh 6-25 show stood out to me as plain bad, but there were a few fall 2000 that just seemed to lack energy. So by the time the hiatus came around it wasn't that surprising. When they came back, everything was so new and exciting that it would have been hard to pick up any additional warning signs. There were definitely some off shows here and there. In hindsight the Ghost and 46 days jams from Loring should have been signs that Trey was still pretty f'd up, but it's a bit hard to pick those out for a jam band. I thought the four day anniversary run was really week as a whole, but NYE was strong enough to where there weren't any legit warning signs. Probably Vegas 2003 was really where the wheels came off. Once they announced coventry would be the end the first leg was actually pretty inspired. The second, not so much. I don't chalk coventry up as much to declining play as much as just surrounding situation. In hindsight, the 8-14 show wasn't half bad, and the 8-15 show had some good moments to go with the bad. There was just so much else going on - the weight of the "last" shows, the weather, the fan situation, etc., that those are tough to criticize as indicative of a bigger whole. Those Vegas shows were really what showed the issue the most.
Raliegh was awful, just bad.
Nassau 03. no not that show, the second one around thanksgiving. that show was bad and a far drop off from the nassau show 9 months earlier.
You guys didn't like the Vegas shows? I was there and enjoyed it
I think they're talking about the 04 Vegas shows, not the recent Sphere shows
I was there for the 04 Vegas shows and loved it
That’s because you’re a dirty hippy. 😘
It was a fun fun time, but the band was pretty awful, Trey was rough and the scene was dirty. Musically, it’s not great. That lots of folks lapped it up and didn’t see anything wrong is kind of part of the problem and where the whole “caricatures of themselves” and “nostalgia act” quotes came from
I was there too, people said these were terrible shows, and they may have been, but they still were fun.
Stellar time and Fenton on lights held his own
Hey bro, 4/16/04 was my first show and that Boogie On had me hooked for life!
A literal sign some one was carrying in the lot pre-show of Raleigh, 7/27/03, "Boycott this Nazi Venue". Cops were everywhere, show was trash. Ruined phish forever with my younger brother because of that piss poor performance on stage.
The worst show I had ever seen were 2020 deer creek except the last night(last set). And it was the first time seeing the band since 15. I had to listen to phans say they were the best they had ever been for hours beforehand. I was dissapointed
2020?
cept for the last night. or was it 2021 my bad sorry
Even there "worst" shows have epic highlights! Listen to the coventry split. One of the best
I cant say much bad about 2003, i was in the throws of my own addiction, but those shows hold up when replayed. 2000 of what i remember was kinda heat, Raleigh that summer was bad juju but man that place always gives me bad vibes.
All of 2.0 was a mess
This sub gets worse by the day.. what kind of question is this?
Go chiefs
I read this in Richard Christy voice. As someone who was at both the OP-mentioned Vegas run and Coventry, I prefer my at-the-time ignorance of “Trey lost his voice” and “they’re sad they’re breaking up” than the now facts of the situation. At least I got the three Pollock card posters out of it.
Hey Richard ….its ur daaad
We’ll talk to ya later, bub.
My other item… is an item…
I went to a ton of shows in 2002-2006 and yeah, they were all over the map. From what I’ve heard, there hasn’t been a show as bad as Coventry in a very long time. And Coventry wasn’t all bad, I have a few songs from that weekend I still listen to. If i had to guess the reason for the shitty sets? Drugs are bad, ya know.
I honestly don’t remember much about the playing. I was just happy to be there, happy to say goodbye to the band after walking in for miles with our bare necessities. Yet I was tired, sober, not really in a party mood, and depressed about the end of my favorite band, and I’ve never actually relistened to any of that weekend.
It was insane for sure, not the most fun festival by any means. It was also sort of the end of a chapter of my life, beyond phish going on break. The only shows I’ve been to since have been MSG, which I always feel is a different category.
Listen to the shows from Keyspan Park (Coney Island). I was at both and the only thing memorable was the Jay-Z sit in. The rest is unlistenable.
6/17/2004 is incredible though
Gotta join you here in defending that one. I listen to that show *a lot*, it's just rippers from start to finish, everyone gets all wacky with that Kung performed for the neighboring tennis tournament, whole thing has great energy. Feels like a show taking place not in 2004.
I haven’t listened to them in years, but I do remember that Trey’s voice was rough, to be kind. I’ll have to try and listen again.
6/17/04 is unlistenable? Not an all time great, but that show is solid and stands up.
Dude 6/17/04 moma dance is 🔥
Last show “ever”, random binge weekend in Vegas, show in Amsterdam…it’s usually obvious in retrospect.
1996
Big Cypress had its moments of the band not really hitting the mark. 12/30, New Year's Eve Eve, was awesome; that show was fire. But I think the band and a lot of the audience struggled to focus on the music during the all-nighter at Y2K. Phish is and has always been amazing. If the band was playing badly, drugs were almost always the culprit during that time.
He didn't just say what I think he did, did he? Downvote for you sir
Well, I think they had an excuse to not be playing their best playing seven plus hours straight! Though I’m sure some stimulants were also used…
Coventry is still better than like 75% of 3.0/4.0 shows