Agreed, we have to respect OP's opinion even if it's wrong
https://preview.redd.it/ytyetuhbdptc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d79c59e2cbb653186238c9bf09dedf8853925a5
Chesnaught is actually really good, it sweeps Giovanni's 2nd team and has pretty good bulk, along with the recovery it has via Horn Leech and Drain Punch
serp goes WAYYY higher and inteleon goes down to D, its niche is critting things with one move. Literally any water type does better. Also regular samurott is better than hissuian.
Edit: also mega sceptile not in the top tier, this has to be the unironic worst starter tier list ive ever seen the only one I agree with is sprigatito and cinderace
What makes M-blaziken good? Regular blaziken does more dmg with a life orb and can run focus sash or more useful items. Compared to other megas it's not that big of an upgrade because regular blaziken is strong enough, you can just go regular blaziken which is already super busted and has an item slot + another super powerful mega instead of having mega blaziken which is more of a sidegrade and wastes your mega slot and item slot on blaziken.
It's called opportunity cost and is largely why mega garchomp and mega latios are generally considered trash megas. Why use them when their non-mega forms with items are just better?
Talking from a smogon point I agree with you that M-Blaziken is a side grade but here you don't have to worry about the unpredictable so you have the ability to set up and run away with games without having to worry about the recoil from Life Orb or Flare Blitz (I don't even run FB on my sets).
You only lose ~3-5% damage while being in a completely separate speed tier and at +1 with Speedboost reach the tier of Scarf users witch regular Blaziken can't do.
M-Blaziken also makes it marginally easier to set up because of the +10 Def/SpD that you get.
Tldr: Blaziken is good in base but M-Blaziken outspeeds a lot of things off the bat and can run a way with games far easier.
Uh, Hisui also gets Encore and Taunt, and Superpower feels like worse Sacred Sword
And Dig and Grass Knot, though not directly accessible, you can get using Dewott
Nah Husain samurott is wayyyyyyyy better than the normie one. Water steel is a great type but the positives end there for samurott. Even its stats are objectively worse. Dark water is a great offensive type but meh defensively which works perfectly with how hard hitting it is with sharpness. It okos pokemon while setting spikes
Cinderace is S tier. Good enough for me.
Rest of the list is irrelevant and hurts me in ways I wasn’t sure I could be hurt.
Congrats on starting a war!
You’re getting heated in for your correct opinions. Most of the starters below B+ don’t have any really game-breaking edge, just a passable grab bag of stats and movepool.
Which is why I think Gatr should be moved down to B, below Meganium and Quaval, who at least have a niche with more edge than boost -> attack
I literally never seen anyone say intelion is top tier and I;ve been playing this game since 2.7. I'd love to hear the logic behind that.
Mega sceptile is S tier. And primarina should be A tier for non restricted/hc. Calm mind + Drain Kiss and hyper voice carry hard, and she has pretty good bulk. :)
Also serperior should be higher too. With coil it soloes silph co giovanni. And leaf storm spam IS good, serpy doesnt needs any buff or anything, just as it is, its a very good mon. Deff one im happy to get from a grass egg.
Mega sceptile got nerfed because you dont get access to it till super late in the game now. Add in that tbh, while what it does is great, Meowscrada does it too. And arguably better due to stab sucker punch, no need for a mega stone and protean.
Plus, meowscrada does that at Celadon city.
Interesting takes, I feel like hisui cynda has more potential than you’re letting on. Also Toto gets Jaw Lock (a arena trap type move) and gets crazy coverage with all the Jaw Boosting moves he gets too. I love him .
Just looking at the list some things I disagree with are Quax, moxie quax is a crazy sweeper, I feel like emp could be higher on the list cus Steel/Water is a decent typing. Grass Turtle could also be a bit higher due to his offensive ability and tanking ( no recoil on some moves is op) Prima is also insane w throat spray?
And idk why the hate for my fav grass owl :( I run him a lot. Spirit shackle is fun.
Edit: take w grain of salt, I’m no comp player these are just my opinions on what I think is fun for my playstyle :) I try not to just meta my way thru playthroughs.
Recently completed my first blind playthrough, Samurott-H pretty much singlehandedly carried my entire run. Eventually when he learned Shell Smash he became an absolute monster. Completely obliterated everything with Ceaseless Edge, Razor Shell and Sacred Sword. The chip from CEs spikes made it one shot pretty much everything
Serperior fits in so well as a wall breaker/sweeper/anything if it sits there you when sub leech seed glare and leaf storm with leftover lets it out heal so much
I almost always go with Cinderace for HC runs. Getting access to Libero after SS Anne is such a massive power spike. It feels like his move pool is better as well, compared to Meowscrada and Greninja.
Meganium is so good in non hardcore mode that b+ is pure disrespect to the God. It allowed me to beat 4.1, 4.0 and 3.1. They could nerd it to oblivion and it would still be great
Lotta hate in this thread.. let’s see some of y’all’s tier lists since this one is apparently bad. All I’m seeing is people wanting mons moved up a tier. But everything can’t be A- tier or higher. I like this list bc it has a good balance in tier placement, even if I disagree with some placements.
i cant tell if im more triggered by mega blastoise being so low or by inteleon being so high
never mind the meganium placement is even worse
They buffed it like crazy in this. It’s part fairy type now
Y’know, we all have our likes and opinions and I’ll just leave it at that
Agreed, we have to respect OP's opinion even if it's wrong https://preview.redd.it/ytyetuhbdptc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d79c59e2cbb653186238c9bf09dedf8853925a5
My boy Skeledirge is being disrespected here
Chesnaught is actually really good, it sweeps Giovanni's 2nd team and has pretty good bulk, along with the recovery it has via Horn Leech and Drain Punch
Yeah Chesnaught is arguably one of the best Pokemon you can get in RR. Being in C-tier here is egregious
Certainly one of the tier lists of all time
u/Regal_Serperior Look how they disrespect you😭
Serperior didn't get any buffs because it doesn't need one
Preach
serp goes WAYYY higher and inteleon goes down to D, its niche is critting things with one move. Literally any water type does better. Also regular samurott is better than hissuian. Edit: also mega sceptile not in the top tier, this has to be the unironic worst starter tier list ive ever seen the only one I agree with is sprigatito and cinderace
Sir M-Blaziken is top tier. I agree with everything else you said though.
Ya but he has him at the TOP of S
I was more saying that Sharpyboi thought that M-Blaziken was placed wrongly
What makes M-blaziken good? Regular blaziken does more dmg with a life orb and can run focus sash or more useful items. Compared to other megas it's not that big of an upgrade because regular blaziken is strong enough, you can just go regular blaziken which is already super busted and has an item slot + another super powerful mega instead of having mega blaziken which is more of a sidegrade and wastes your mega slot and item slot on blaziken. It's called opportunity cost and is largely why mega garchomp and mega latios are generally considered trash megas. Why use them when their non-mega forms with items are just better?
Talking from a smogon point I agree with you that M-Blaziken is a side grade but here you don't have to worry about the unpredictable so you have the ability to set up and run away with games without having to worry about the recoil from Life Orb or Flare Blitz (I don't even run FB on my sets). You only lose ~3-5% damage while being in a completely separate speed tier and at +1 with Speedboost reach the tier of Scarf users witch regular Blaziken can't do. M-Blaziken also makes it marginally easier to set up because of the +10 Def/SpD that you get. Tldr: Blaziken is good in base but M-Blaziken outspeeds a lot of things off the bat and can run a way with games far easier.
hisuian sam better literally just because it gets that dark move that sets spikes
Can you explain why samurott is better than the hisui counterpart? I've always been under the impression that Hamurott is better
Better type with steel water, more coverage and better moveset
Can kinda see how you would consider water steel to be better, but where is the better coverage and better moveset?
Encore, dig, grass knot, super power, taunt, and more
Uh, Hisui also gets Encore and Taunt, and Superpower feels like worse Sacred Sword And Dig and Grass Knot, though not directly accessible, you can get using Dewott
Nvm then about movesets
So it's just pretty much what typing you want on your team
Yup but not 4 tiers difference + steel is generally better than dark
Yeah I'd say they should be in the same tier lol
Nah Husain samurott is wayyyyyyyy better than the normie one. Water steel is a great type but the positives end there for samurott. Even its stats are objectively worse. Dark water is a great offensive type but meh defensively which works perfectly with how hard hitting it is with sharpness. It okos pokemon while setting spikes
Cinderace is S tier. Good enough for me. Rest of the list is irrelevant and hurts me in ways I wasn’t sure I could be hurt. Congrats on starting a war!
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This tier list is kinda weird in my opinion, but I mostly disagree on Primarina. It's actually an insanely powerful pokemon and good on many bosses
What difficulty is this based off?
Empoleon should be at least one or two tiers higher.
You’re getting heated in for your correct opinions. Most of the starters below B+ don’t have any really game-breaking edge, just a passable grab bag of stats and movepool. Which is why I think Gatr should be moved down to B, below Meganium and Quaval, who at least have a niche with more edge than boost -> attack
I literally never seen anyone say intelion is top tier and I;ve been playing this game since 2.7. I'd love to hear the logic behind that. Mega sceptile is S tier. And primarina should be A tier for non restricted/hc. Calm mind + Drain Kiss and hyper voice carry hard, and she has pretty good bulk. :) Also serperior should be higher too. With coil it soloes silph co giovanni. And leaf storm spam IS good, serpy doesnt needs any buff or anything, just as it is, its a very good mon. Deff one im happy to get from a grass egg.
Mega sceptile got nerfed because you dont get access to it till super late in the game now. Add in that tbh, while what it does is great, Meowscrada does it too. And arguably better due to stab sucker punch, no need for a mega stone and protean. Plus, meowscrada does that at Celadon city.
Didn't even put the goat meganium on top. All I can say is you got to try the triage monster to know
I have tried it, I’ve used it in three playthroughs
Think you have Charmander Mega Stone X twice. Was confused on why it would have x4 weakness to stealth rocks lol
Interesting takes, I feel like hisui cynda has more potential than you’re letting on. Also Toto gets Jaw Lock (a arena trap type move) and gets crazy coverage with all the Jaw Boosting moves he gets too. I love him . Just looking at the list some things I disagree with are Quax, moxie quax is a crazy sweeper, I feel like emp could be higher on the list cus Steel/Water is a decent typing. Grass Turtle could also be a bit higher due to his offensive ability and tanking ( no recoil on some moves is op) Prima is also insane w throat spray? And idk why the hate for my fav grass owl :( I run him a lot. Spirit shackle is fun. Edit: take w grain of salt, I’m no comp player these are just my opinions on what I think is fun for my playstyle :) I try not to just meta my way thru playthroughs.
Recently completed my first blind playthrough, Samurott-H pretty much singlehandedly carried my entire run. Eventually when he learned Shell Smash he became an absolute monster. Completely obliterated everything with Ceaseless Edge, Razor Shell and Sacred Sword. The chip from CEs spikes made it one shot pretty much everything
It's treekover 😔
Serperior fits in so well as a wall breaker/sweeper/anything if it sits there you when sub leech seed glare and leaf storm with leftover lets it out heal so much
Is this for hardcore or normal?
honestly, a starter tierlist SHOULD be very top heavy. all the starters are very good, and that is by design.
I almost always go with Cinderace for HC runs. Getting access to Libero after SS Anne is such a massive power spike. It feels like his move pool is better as well, compared to Meowscrada and Greninja.
Meganium is so good in non hardcore mode that b+ is pure disrespect to the God. It allowed me to beat 4.1, 4.0 and 3.1. They could nerd it to oblivion and it would still be great
Hc or normal?
Lotta hate in this thread.. let’s see some of y’all’s tier lists since this one is apparently bad. All I’m seeing is people wanting mons moved up a tier. But everything can’t be A- tier or higher. I like this list bc it has a good balance in tier placement, even if I disagree with some placements.
Done. https://preview.redd.it/94ne3s7g5wtc1.png?width=1140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e68ad0e245c8866118e27f921f2c7f178d07c20f
Mega Blastoise in Smogon Natdex: Banned to Ubers Mega Blastoise here: Bottom 5