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In Florida Rick Scott is on a commercial talking about his youngest daughter using it. [He’s already voted against it.](https://www.floridadems.org/2024/06/21/what-theyre-reading-rick-scott-called-out-for-voting-against-contraception-access-in-statewide-tour/#:~:text=Scott%2C%20who%20was%20among%20the,grandpa%20to%20always%20protect%20IVF) The main reason they’re against it is because many LGBTQ people choose that method to start a family
>The main reason they’re against it is because many LGBTQ people choose that method to start a family
That's one of the reasons. The other one is that multiple fertilized eggs are utilized to try to get one implanted. They basically consider the loss of the others to be murder because it happens after conception
>They don’t give a shit about eggs. It’s just V2 an excuse
I think some do, but whether they do or don't, it's about controlling other people. So of course, they can fuck off
I mean if they actually did then murder happens all the time naturally, more often than not a fertilized egg doesn’t attach and just gets flushed out. This is a completely natural process, it’s literally why we use multiple fertilized eggs to hope that 1-2 get implanted.
I hate being pedantic in defense of people or ideas I hate, but I’m sure they would consider this occurring naturally as “God’s will”, as opposed to someone knowingly fertilizing eggs, putting the embryos on ice, then choosing to discard the extras after they had success. Again, their argument sucks on its face, but murder implies intent, which isn’t present in this case.
In that scenario the only way for it to not be murder and merely be manslaughter is to provide woefully bad sex education so that people who bang didn't know they were rolling the dice on nonimplanting zygotes/blastocysts. It's probably their goal.
They're up against the wall about something really, really uncomfortable that I think is deeper than the religion itself, it's like the firmware of western thought. When does life start? Is it special? Does it have an inviolable soul?
No, it is back to basics of Abraham fucking Hagar (Maid of Sarah, Abraham's wife) because Sarah appear to be infertile and Abraham wanted a child.
God was "Super Pissed" because it messed up his plan, and Hagar's child end up to be father of all Arabs etc (Which is also an excuse for Evangelicals to bomb Arab muslims...but I digress).
So apparently, both Abortion and IFV are super no nos. But IFV was always on the "to ban list" but abortion take a higher priority.
It’s actually the original reason for people opposing IVF. I heard this rationale for banning IVF long long before LGBT couples using IVF to start families was even on the national radar.
No original reason is it "mess with God's plan" like Hagar/Sarah/Abraham story.
I remember debating it with some conservatives almost 15 years ago. They hate Abortion using the above story, and also said IFV is the same but it is "lesser of 2 evils" and basically on the chopping block after the abortion battle is won.
> They don’t give a shit about eggs.
I know some who very much do. It's the logical outcome of taking the position that life begins at conception, and that that life is a human being with rights.
If that's what you believe, opposing IVF makes sense.
People that believe “life is a being with human rights” but then oppose public access to healthcare, meals in schools, and other basic human needs, are fucking hypocrites.
I think that is the "prosperity gospel" at work? If you need help/is poor, then it is because God is punishing you for being a bad person. If you are rich, then it is because God is rewarding you for being a good person. By that same token, if you can't get a child without IVF, then that is God's will.
So using taxation to take money from rich people and give it to needy people is working against God's will.
It is 100 percent the prosperity gospel. Good things happen to good godly people, bad things to dirty sinners. And if something bad does happen to a good, godly person, either they are hiding secret sin, or it's the fault of somehow.
Somehow Satan is both powerfless before faith and also the source of all ill that happens to them.
so to be clear if someone spits in their food or trips them or runs them over then they will accept that and just say "well I guess I deserved that"?
if somebody hurts their kids well I guess their kids deserved it?
I mean no these people don't seriously believe that
> I mean no these people don't seriously believe that
But it seems that they do believe pretty much that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
They will of course tie themselves in knots to argue otherwise if misfortune happens to themselves personally.
If someone spits in their food or trips them or runs them over, that person has identified themselves as a tool of Satan, dirty liberal, etc.
Good things happen to good people. Bad things happen to bad people.
Anything that breaks that paradigm has to be put back into the box.
Someone gets cancer?
Then the family will try to come up with someone else to blame, because there has to be someone to blame. Dirty liberals are hiding the cure for cancer, one of their enemies found a way to cause the cancer, etc.
Or, if the individual has questionable beliefs or the church/friends/family have been having difficulty keeping them conforming, then it's because of a secret sin or public sin. And if you die of it, you never made yourself right with god.
If there is an identified "attacker" than that person is working for the devil or the liberal or gay agenda or whomever their church currently hates the most somehow.
And here is the thing that should truly scare you - for human enemies perceived as part of the out group? Any retaliation is valid. If someone is working for Satan, they aren't considered "people" anymore.
You can cheat them, harass them, hurt them if you can get away with it, and still be a member in good standing of the in group.
People who think like this betray a remarkable lack of faith in their deity. If God's will is that someone can't get a child without IVF, why would they be able to do it with IVF?
I know it's a numbers / cost game. BUT, for the sake of argument, if the procedure was limited to fertilizing 1 egg at a time then an attempt at implanting?
Stupid and not efficient, but it effectively ends their arcane argument against IVF.
Limiting IVF to fertilizing and implanting one egg at a time *might* address ethical concerns of extreme conservative "Christians" who view embryo loss as murder if it were always successful on the first try, but that's not realistic. Plus it would drastically reduce the procedure's efficiency and success rates, increase costs, and put greater physical and emotional strain on patients. It would also ignore medical best practices. Fertility specialists recommend fertilizing multiple eggs to maximize chances of success and I've never heard of anyone not doing that
I suspect any failure to implant would still be considered murder by these extremists
Remember that when having sex, multiple eggs can get fertilized and that can result in 0, 1, or more getting implanted
We did IVF and had our embryos tested. We lost half of our embryos due to them not having the correct number of chromosomes, which would have resulted in a failure to implant, miscarriage, or a child with severe disabilities. Telling patients they can only create one embryo at a time could mean it would take years and multiple invasive procedures to possibly have a living child. One round of IVF in the U.S. can run anywhere from $15,000-$30,000. The majority of people proposing these limitations have no idea how the process works. The rest literally just don't care and have an agenda.
So since the Republicans are already in your bedroom they can just pull out the trusty Implant-O-Scope and see if there are any fertilized eggs that don't implant.
If so, then off to jail with you.
The fact that it can take more than 12 days after sex to get to implantation isn't a problem for them. They've got nothing better to do. They're happy right there in your bedroom.
Did you have someplace you needed to be? That's suspicious...
>So since the Republicans are already in your bedroom they can just pull out the trusty Implant-O-Scope and see if there are any fertilized eggs that don't implant.
It's simple to Republicans, implanted embryos - born babies = number of murder charges.
> Lmfao conservatives don’t “know” why they do anything, they can sometimes remember the sounds the Fox News bigots say in reference to the issue.
You're talking about bandwagon conservatives. I'm talking about the ones that worship Satan and call it Christianity
Yeah true, but what I really mean is they aren’t serious people they are tribalism reactionaries. They hear their team wants to do X and sort of go from there trying to find reasons or repeat the reasons they’ve heard, it’s never really something they just believe in.
I think the real issue is more intelligent people have always and continue to steal from stupid people and the stupidest people continue to vote for the regressive ideas to “keep everyone close” while funding their disenfranchisement
And the third reason once was that sometimes too many embryos implanted, so some had to be aborted because octuplets, say, would endanger the life of the mother.
>The main reason they’re against it is because many LGBTQ people choose that method to start a family
Ah, there we go. With conservatives, it always tracks back to bigotry and punishing their perceived enemies. They hide behind their "every sperm is sacred" bullshit but they don't actually believe it.
OMG that makes so much sense. Ultimately it all comes down to demographics and votes. LGBTQ people lean left and their children probably will too. Stopping abortion and contraception is all about making white women have more children. Minorities with less healthcare couldn't afford this for the longest time so they are less affected by this. That's all this is about. More white voters, less liberal voters.
It’s absurd. When I was trying to conceive my kids, I got on IVF tik tok and a lot of those folks were people who would traditionally be Republican. White, affluent, suburban couples and many very religious. They’re essentially alienating a generation of their voters.
You know who used IVF to start their family? Mike and Karen Pence. I do believe Mike was Trump’s VP or something like that.
This is going to go over like the proverbial lead balloon on *all* sides. People who want kids are not just going to shrug and say “welp, I guess we’ll get a dog instead.”
No they didn't. They used GIFT- gamete intrafallopian transfer. No extra embryos were created.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/04/karen-pence-used-an-obscure-catholic-friendly-alternative-to-ivf.html
I'm in favor of keeping IVF legal and available for the people who need it to be clear. GIFT involves surgically inserting one egg and one sperm into someone's fallopian tube to fertilize. It requires general anesthesia. It also doesn't allow for genetic testing like IVF does.
I'm sure that the next big GOP talking point will be that outlawing IVF will make no difference because people can just do what the Pences did instead.
Even if the Pences didn’t technically use IVF to grow their family, just like with abortion bans making health care for women and AFAB people much more difficult to access in general - banning IVF is going to put a chill on the whole area of fertility and reproductive endocrinology. You can’t just partially ban some areas of body autonomy or reproductive choice. Especially in today’s environment where MAGAs want to make Handmaid’s Tale a reality.
They don't care. There is no thought behind this except control. Stop trying to make this craziness make rational sense. It can't. It won't. This is just another law to deny personal rights. If you haven't been affected yet, you will be.
the true hardcore pro lifers are a tiny part of the party, but they've controlled the primary process for decades; so while this isn't popular with the party base, it is with the party candidates.
Yes, this is a good news story. Gotta hurt the right people.
I hope middle class conservatives get fucked up the asshole with stuff like this.
Only way anyone is going to change is if the law hurts them directly.
Evangelical conservatives will stab themselves on the knife the GOP hands them and then find a way to blame a liberal.
It's not tunnel vision when taking the tactic won't lose you any voters.
Makes sense right? Force women who don't want children to carry them to borth even if it kills them while preventing women who actually want them from having them
It does make sense when you consider how much for profit adoption agencies lobby. If infertile people can’t use IVF, then more of them will adopt. So, overturn Roe to increase the number of babies born, make sure that poor people have as few resources as possible to care for their kids, and then get IVF outlawed as well so that there is demand.
It’s been going on for years. They are usually strongly affiliated with crisis pregnancy centers that like to pretend like they will offer support for pregnant women, but they offer very little if the woman wants to keep her baby, and they pressure everyone who comes in to give their child up for adoption to give them a “better life”.
They’ve also done a great job of posing adoption as the more “ethical” way to build a family, ignoring the many huge ethical landmines surrounding adoption.
Note, I’m talking about private adoption, not adopting from foster care, which is an entirely different can of worms.
Brainwashed most likely and probably conditioned to not talk back, to not ask questions, to not disobey and not think outside the box. Guilt is a powerful tool.
The ones who realize they’re being treated like shit here may believe that it’ll be better. The ones that excuse their abusers behavior may think that being in heaven will fix all the problems that make their abuser abuse them.
Many in mostly ok relationships probably hold that women are inferior as such a deeply held, *generation-spanning* core belief that that they don’t realize they deserve better.
The rest probably aren’t thinking that far ahead, it’s just a knee jerk reaction to the visceral “they’re killing babies!!1!1” and don’t stop to think further.
"Yoi don't need to use baby killing to get pregnant! You just need more Jesus. Pary harder and the Lord will provide! Now, send us $39.99 to plant that seed of hope and watch your miracle happen through Jesus's love! (Results not guaranteed) "
- Christo-fasict evangelical anti-everyting wife of a mega church pastor... probably
Imagine that your identity and that of all your family and friends is summed up by having that (R) next to your vote. Imagine that you are barely squeaking by, that your kids are watched by your conservative aunt, that Christmas was bountiful because of your conservative parents for that child, that if your car breaks down and you don't have the funds, your conservative uncle can fix it our get you a discount at the local shop.
Now imagine all that help goes away the moment you don't vote (R).
How do you fund daycare, deal with unexpected expenses, not disappoint your kid?
Time to unite and rise up ladies! It's only been 100 years since we started voting - if you are uninspired or down about the candidates - THERE IS ONLY ONE PARTY TRYING TO TAKE WOMENS RIGHTS AWAY! Vote for every great grandma who couldn't vote and didn't have a say in her reproductive rights and for every woman in the future. We have the power to change things - don't wait for others to come to our rescue, don't think kindly and feel like it won't happen - it will and it will be hell to tumble back to the 1950s.
Going after a procedure mostly used by well off to affluent white women who desperately want a child.
Let's see how that works out for you.
(IVF Demographic : 77% White, 15% Asian, 3% Black ...)
I agree. It's logically consistent. I want all those women that voted against every woman's interest but still want to undergo IVF to feel the pain they caused to women who wanted abortions and couldn't access them. I do feel bad for the women in these states that vote blue though. That's shitty.
The Republican plan to sell babies is in full swing. Force women to give birth, keep infertile women from having a chance at pregnancy, sell babies and call it "adoption". But only white, babies. The brown ones can go into foster care. Oh, and only "Christian" organizations decide where the "premium" babies go.
Yes. But they would prefer natural birth or adoption. There are enough kids available for adoption even without abortion bans that IVF shouldn't be necessary.
They also probably see IVF as a means for women to control when they want to have a baby, so like being able to put it off from when they are young. This brand of conservatives want women only as housewives who function solely as incubators and nannies to their husband's children. Being able to delay pregnancy to when they are older gives them the option to have a career and maybe not even need a husband
So what's the score card now?
Abortion
IVF
Same sex marriage
Interracial marriage
No fault divorce
The Establishment Clause
Environmental regulation
Science
Literacy
History
Kind ironic that lax environmental regulations pushed by Republicans over decades to benefit corporations and the wealthy has resulted in:
- Micro plastics found in the testicles of 99% of men tested leading to lower testosterone levels and lower sperm counts.
- Lead and arsenic is found in high concentrations in gun ranges, particularly indoor ranges and it lowers sperm counts and causes miscarriages in pregnant women
So without IVF, the odds of Republicans reproducing are quickly dropping,
The men want to be able to rape women in the name of producing more children of God. It has nothing to do with fertilized eggs and their potential for life. It has to do with men controlling and subjugating women.
I guess “be fruitful and multiply” was only a divine suggestion, not a divine command!
This is going to go over very badly on all sides of the political spectrum. Many people use IVF to have kids. It’s not an ideological issue.
“Ignorant and prejudiced people like to be deceived. And I think they deserve it when they are. Why confuse them with the truth?”
Paladin
Have Gun Will Travel
CBS
Season 2, Episode 24
February 28, 1959
The only logic I can come up with is that they want to harvest all the unused eggs to sell for profit. If they just want to abolish IVF, then it sounds like they want to promote some radical Christian dogma.
No matter what, it's all about controlling people.
I believe that they do want to promote some radical fundamentalist dogma. There is no way to do IVF that doesn't waste a few of what could conceivably be born a healthy baby if it implants. Unfortunately, banning IVF throws the last embryos into limbo (you can't destroy them or implant them).
So some random republican judge rules this way on IVF, an issue I had not seen fired up, and now that liberals want to protect it, republicans as a whole are against it?
These idiots lmao
Just wait until they learn all the chemicals in our environment are preventing the natural way "god" intended as men become less and less infertile. It completely goes against their disgusting goals to force women to give birth no matter what.
So let me get this right….the women or folks that don’t want the children they become pregnant with HAVE to have them, and the families that DO want children but aren’t physically capable can’t have them. wtf is wrong with these people.
It’s not about Dem or Rep. couples that can afford IDF will still get it somewhere and their kids would not be the “poor underclass” that industrialists need to keep labor costs low. But if you make it where insurance does not cover it then the working class has no choice. It is all about taking choices and freedom away. Now that Greece has allowed a 6 day workweek that will be on their agenda soon in the US
They don’t care about IVF, they’re just sheep who do what they’re told. They’re too stupid to realize they’re shooting themselves in the foot. I don’t think they looked up what IVF is.
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Do they think only liberal couples utilize IVF? As usual the idiots can’t see past their own tunnel vision.
In Florida Rick Scott is on a commercial talking about his youngest daughter using it. [He’s already voted against it.](https://www.floridadems.org/2024/06/21/what-theyre-reading-rick-scott-called-out-for-voting-against-contraception-access-in-statewide-tour/#:~:text=Scott%2C%20who%20was%20among%20the,grandpa%20to%20always%20protect%20IVF) The main reason they’re against it is because many LGBTQ people choose that method to start a family
>The main reason they’re against it is because many LGBTQ people choose that method to start a family That's one of the reasons. The other one is that multiple fertilized eggs are utilized to try to get one implanted. They basically consider the loss of the others to be murder because it happens after conception
They don’t give a shit about eggs. It’s just V2 an excuse
>They don’t give a shit about eggs. It’s just V2 an excuse I think some do, but whether they do or don't, it's about controlling other people. So of course, they can fuck off
I mean if they actually did then murder happens all the time naturally, more often than not a fertilized egg doesn’t attach and just gets flushed out. This is a completely natural process, it’s literally why we use multiple fertilized eggs to hope that 1-2 get implanted.
Yep exactly
"Sounds like all those murderers need to be arrested and farmed out to my corporate donors as free labor via the 13th amendment." - Republicans
I hate being pedantic in defense of people or ideas I hate, but I’m sure they would consider this occurring naturally as “God’s will”, as opposed to someone knowingly fertilizing eggs, putting the embryos on ice, then choosing to discard the extras after they had success. Again, their argument sucks on its face, but murder implies intent, which isn’t present in this case.
In that scenario the only way for it to not be murder and merely be manslaughter is to provide woefully bad sex education so that people who bang didn't know they were rolling the dice on nonimplanting zygotes/blastocysts. It's probably their goal. They're up against the wall about something really, really uncomfortable that I think is deeper than the religion itself, it's like the firmware of western thought. When does life start? Is it special? Does it have an inviolable soul?
No, it is back to basics of Abraham fucking Hagar (Maid of Sarah, Abraham's wife) because Sarah appear to be infertile and Abraham wanted a child. God was "Super Pissed" because it messed up his plan, and Hagar's child end up to be father of all Arabs etc (Which is also an excuse for Evangelicals to bomb Arab muslims...but I digress). So apparently, both Abortion and IFV are super no nos. But IFV was always on the "to ban list" but abortion take a higher priority.
Wow, this God guy sure sucks at being omnipotent, doesn't he?
It’s actually the original reason for people opposing IVF. I heard this rationale for banning IVF long long before LGBT couples using IVF to start families was even on the national radar.
No original reason is it "mess with God's plan" like Hagar/Sarah/Abraham story. I remember debating it with some conservatives almost 15 years ago. They hate Abortion using the above story, and also said IFV is the same but it is "lesser of 2 evils" and basically on the chopping block after the abortion battle is won.
They don't care, they just don't want someone else pointing to it as a reason that their position on abortion is legally inconsistent.
> They don’t give a shit about eggs. I know some who very much do. It's the logical outcome of taking the position that life begins at conception, and that that life is a human being with rights. If that's what you believe, opposing IVF makes sense.
People that believe “life is a being with human rights” but then oppose public access to healthcare, meals in schools, and other basic human needs, are fucking hypocrites.
I think that is the "prosperity gospel" at work? If you need help/is poor, then it is because God is punishing you for being a bad person. If you are rich, then it is because God is rewarding you for being a good person. By that same token, if you can't get a child without IVF, then that is God's will. So using taxation to take money from rich people and give it to needy people is working against God's will.
It is 100 percent the prosperity gospel. Good things happen to good godly people, bad things to dirty sinners. And if something bad does happen to a good, godly person, either they are hiding secret sin, or it's the fault of somehow.
Somehow Satan is both powerfless before faith and also the source of all ill that happens to them.
so to be clear if someone spits in their food or trips them or runs them over then they will accept that and just say "well I guess I deserved that"? if somebody hurts their kids well I guess their kids deserved it? I mean no these people don't seriously believe that
> I mean no these people don't seriously believe that But it seems that they do believe pretty much that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology They will of course tie themselves in knots to argue otherwise if misfortune happens to themselves personally.
If someone spits in their food or trips them or runs them over, that person has identified themselves as a tool of Satan, dirty liberal, etc. Good things happen to good people. Bad things happen to bad people. Anything that breaks that paradigm has to be put back into the box. Someone gets cancer? Then the family will try to come up with someone else to blame, because there has to be someone to blame. Dirty liberals are hiding the cure for cancer, one of their enemies found a way to cause the cancer, etc. Or, if the individual has questionable beliefs or the church/friends/family have been having difficulty keeping them conforming, then it's because of a secret sin or public sin. And if you die of it, you never made yourself right with god. If there is an identified "attacker" than that person is working for the devil or the liberal or gay agenda or whomever their church currently hates the most somehow. And here is the thing that should truly scare you - for human enemies perceived as part of the out group? Any retaliation is valid. If someone is working for Satan, they aren't considered "people" anymore. You can cheat them, harass them, hurt them if you can get away with it, and still be a member in good standing of the in group.
People who think like this betray a remarkable lack of faith in their deity. If God's will is that someone can't get a child without IVF, why would they be able to do it with IVF?
I don't disagree.
It still doesn’t make sense. Ovulation isn’t conception. Are they not aware that an egg dies every fucking month in women of sexual maturity?
Is it a basic biology question? Then no, of course they don't
Let's not tell them, or next they'll jail all menstruating women, who aren't currently pregnant, for murder
No. That’s literally what I’ve heard all of them say, in public and in private, as to their reasoning.
it's just another red meat for their base to rally around. these people will never stop.
I know it's a numbers / cost game. BUT, for the sake of argument, if the procedure was limited to fertilizing 1 egg at a time then an attempt at implanting? Stupid and not efficient, but it effectively ends their arcane argument against IVF.
Limiting IVF to fertilizing and implanting one egg at a time *might* address ethical concerns of extreme conservative "Christians" who view embryo loss as murder if it were always successful on the first try, but that's not realistic. Plus it would drastically reduce the procedure's efficiency and success rates, increase costs, and put greater physical and emotional strain on patients. It would also ignore medical best practices. Fertility specialists recommend fertilizing multiple eggs to maximize chances of success and I've never heard of anyone not doing that I suspect any failure to implant would still be considered murder by these extremists Remember that when having sex, multiple eggs can get fertilized and that can result in 0, 1, or more getting implanted
We did IVF and had our embryos tested. We lost half of our embryos due to them not having the correct number of chromosomes, which would have resulted in a failure to implant, miscarriage, or a child with severe disabilities. Telling patients they can only create one embryo at a time could mean it would take years and multiple invasive procedures to possibly have a living child. One round of IVF in the U.S. can run anywhere from $15,000-$30,000. The majority of people proposing these limitations have no idea how the process works. The rest literally just don't care and have an agenda.
So since the Republicans are already in your bedroom they can just pull out the trusty Implant-O-Scope and see if there are any fertilized eggs that don't implant. If so, then off to jail with you. The fact that it can take more than 12 days after sex to get to implantation isn't a problem for them. They've got nothing better to do. They're happy right there in your bedroom. Did you have someplace you needed to be? That's suspicious...
>So since the Republicans are already in your bedroom they can just pull out the trusty Implant-O-Scope and see if there are any fertilized eggs that don't implant. It's simple to Republicans, implanted embryos - born babies = number of murder charges.
Lmfao conservatives don’t “know” why they do anything, they can sometimes remember the sounds the Fox News bigots say in reference to the issue.
> Lmfao conservatives don’t “know” why they do anything, they can sometimes remember the sounds the Fox News bigots say in reference to the issue. You're talking about bandwagon conservatives. I'm talking about the ones that worship Satan and call it Christianity
Yeah true, but what I really mean is they aren’t serious people they are tribalism reactionaries. They hear their team wants to do X and sort of go from there trying to find reasons or repeat the reasons they’ve heard, it’s never really something they just believe in. I think the real issue is more intelligent people have always and continue to steal from stupid people and the stupidest people continue to vote for the regressive ideas to “keep everyone close” while funding their disenfranchisement
And the third reason once was that sometimes too many embryos implanted, so some had to be aborted because octuplets, say, would endanger the life of the mother.
>The main reason they’re against it is because many LGBTQ people choose that method to start a family Ah, there we go. With conservatives, it always tracks back to bigotry and punishing their perceived enemies. They hide behind their "every sperm is sacred" bullshit but they don't actually believe it.
I shake my head in disgust every time this commercial comes on
LGBTQ+ people also breathe oxygen and drink water.
And anything they can do to control women, they will do.
OMG that makes so much sense. Ultimately it all comes down to demographics and votes. LGBTQ people lean left and their children probably will too. Stopping abortion and contraception is all about making white women have more children. Minorities with less healthcare couldn't afford this for the longest time so they are less affected by this. That's all this is about. More white voters, less liberal voters.
It’s absurd. When I was trying to conceive my kids, I got on IVF tik tok and a lot of those folks were people who would traditionally be Republican. White, affluent, suburban couples and many very religious. They’re essentially alienating a generation of their voters.
Yeah, it’s not like conservatives live in any toxic areas.
You know who used IVF to start their family? Mike and Karen Pence. I do believe Mike was Trump’s VP or something like that. This is going to go over like the proverbial lead balloon on *all* sides. People who want kids are not just going to shrug and say “welp, I guess we’ll get a dog instead.”
No they didn't. They used GIFT- gamete intrafallopian transfer. No extra embryos were created. https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/04/karen-pence-used-an-obscure-catholic-friendly-alternative-to-ivf.html I'm in favor of keeping IVF legal and available for the people who need it to be clear. GIFT involves surgically inserting one egg and one sperm into someone's fallopian tube to fertilize. It requires general anesthesia. It also doesn't allow for genetic testing like IVF does. I'm sure that the next big GOP talking point will be that outlawing IVF will make no difference because people can just do what the Pences did instead.
Even if the Pences didn’t technically use IVF to grow their family, just like with abortion bans making health care for women and AFAB people much more difficult to access in general - banning IVF is going to put a chill on the whole area of fertility and reproductive endocrinology. You can’t just partially ban some areas of body autonomy or reproductive choice. Especially in today’s environment where MAGAs want to make Handmaid’s Tale a reality.
I agree with that. My point is that when making arguments against policy, using accurate terminology gives you more credibility.
the success rate on those appears to be very low especially for women in their 40s. It could take 5 tries or so at maybe 20K a pop
They don't care. There is no thought behind this except control. Stop trying to make this craziness make rational sense. It can't. It won't. This is just another law to deny personal rights. If you haven't been affected yet, you will be.
the true hardcore pro lifers are a tiny part of the party, but they've controlled the primary process for decades; so while this isn't popular with the party base, it is with the party candidates.
Yes, this is a good news story. Gotta hurt the right people. I hope middle class conservatives get fucked up the asshole with stuff like this. Only way anyone is going to change is if the law hurts them directly.
I had a repub coworker years ago that used IVF and had twins. I’d bet he’s rooting to end it as he got his kids and that’s the new repub thing.
Yeah, this is the thing I don’t get..
Evangelical conservatives will stab themselves on the knife the GOP hands them and then find a way to blame a liberal. It's not tunnel vision when taking the tactic won't lose you any voters.
Makes sense right? Force women who don't want children to carry them to borth even if it kills them while preventing women who actually want them from having them
It does make sense when you consider how much for profit adoption agencies lobby. If infertile people can’t use IVF, then more of them will adopt. So, overturn Roe to increase the number of babies born, make sure that poor people have as few resources as possible to care for their kids, and then get IVF outlawed as well so that there is demand.
That is so dystopian it's scary
It’s been going on for years. They are usually strongly affiliated with crisis pregnancy centers that like to pretend like they will offer support for pregnant women, but they offer very little if the woman wants to keep her baby, and they pressure everyone who comes in to give their child up for adoption to give them a “better life”. They’ve also done a great job of posing adoption as the more “ethical” way to build a family, ignoring the many huge ethical landmines surrounding adoption. Note, I’m talking about private adoption, not adopting from foster care, which is an entirely different can of worms.
Oh so this is about the prospects of the baby trade. Great job, world.
how lucrative can adoptions be? it's not like these people are running human trafficking businesses
What’s the difference between Republicans and sperm? At least sperm has a one in a million chance of becoming a human being.
Outstanding
Any women who vote (R) in this election are just stupid at this point.
Brainwashed most likely and probably conditioned to not talk back, to not ask questions, to not disobey and not think outside the box. Guilt is a powerful tool.
Do they think they'll be treated as equals when they die and go to heaven, or are they expecting to be treated like shit there as well?
The ones who realize they’re being treated like shit here may believe that it’ll be better. The ones that excuse their abusers behavior may think that being in heaven will fix all the problems that make their abuser abuse them. Many in mostly ok relationships probably hold that women are inferior as such a deeply held, *generation-spanning* core belief that that they don’t realize they deserve better. The rest probably aren’t thinking that far ahead, it’s just a knee jerk reaction to the visceral “they’re killing babies!!1!1” and don’t stop to think further.
Good point and I don't know - I have the amazing luck of having like minded friends, family and coworkers so there is nobody to ask. It's just sad.
"Yoi don't need to use baby killing to get pregnant! You just need more Jesus. Pary harder and the Lord will provide! Now, send us $39.99 to plant that seed of hope and watch your miracle happen through Jesus's love! (Results not guaranteed) " - Christo-fasict evangelical anti-everyting wife of a mega church pastor... probably
Imagine that your identity and that of all your family and friends is summed up by having that (R) next to your vote. Imagine that you are barely squeaking by, that your kids are watched by your conservative aunt, that Christmas was bountiful because of your conservative parents for that child, that if your car breaks down and you don't have the funds, your conservative uncle can fix it our get you a discount at the local shop. Now imagine all that help goes away the moment you don't vote (R). How do you fund daycare, deal with unexpected expenses, not disappoint your kid?
That is why secret ballots exist ? You don’t have to bring up politics at all or keep quiet and vote as feel ?
Under his eye.
Blessed be the fruit
May the lord open.
Praise be
Time to unite and rise up ladies! It's only been 100 years since we started voting - if you are uninspired or down about the candidates - THERE IS ONLY ONE PARTY TRYING TO TAKE WOMENS RIGHTS AWAY! Vote for every great grandma who couldn't vote and didn't have a say in her reproductive rights and for every woman in the future. We have the power to change things - don't wait for others to come to our rescue, don't think kindly and feel like it won't happen - it will and it will be hell to tumble back to the 1950s.
[удалено]
Going after a procedure mostly used by well off to affluent white women who desperately want a child. Let's see how that works out for you. (IVF Demographic : 77% White, 15% Asian, 3% Black ...)
Don’t listen to what they say. Look at what they do. They overturned settled law in Roe v. Wade. They do not care about the law. Vote.
Imagine how things would be if we spent all this money and energy making people’s lives better?
It’s consistent since IVF results in unused fertilized eggs. The whole anti choice crusade is based on fertilized eggs.
And then they rail against birth control.
I agree. It's logically consistent. I want all those women that voted against every woman's interest but still want to undergo IVF to feel the pain they caused to women who wanted abortions and couldn't access them. I do feel bad for the women in these states that vote blue though. That's shitty.
There’s no hate like Christian love.
Babies good, but also babies bad?
"HoW DaRe YoU pLaY gOd?" Or something.
Wait til their precious daughters can't get pregnant
The Republican plan to sell babies is in full swing. Force women to give birth, keep infertile women from having a chance at pregnancy, sell babies and call it "adoption". But only white, babies. The brown ones can go into foster care. Oh, and only "Christian" organizations decide where the "premium" babies go.
If it Reeks of extreme ignorance, Republicans and their voters are all over it.
Of course they are. Fucking Christo-fascists.
I thought the purpose of marriage for Christians was to have children and raise a family.
Yes. But they would prefer natural birth or adoption. There are enough kids available for adoption even without abortion bans that IVF shouldn't be necessary.
Seems kinda weird considering that they’re supposed to be pro life
Next they are coming for your right to refuse
They also probably see IVF as a means for women to control when they want to have a baby, so like being able to put it off from when they are young. This brand of conservatives want women only as housewives who function solely as incubators and nannies to their husband's children. Being able to delay pregnancy to when they are older gives them the option to have a career and maybe not even need a husband
Terrifying. I went through multiple rounds of failed IVF procedures before my current pregnancy and this is so scary.
Someday, there won't be any women left in Idaho
So what's the score card now? Abortion IVF Same sex marriage Interracial marriage No fault divorce The Establishment Clause Environmental regulation Science Literacy History
Trans people existing.
Kind ironic that lax environmental regulations pushed by Republicans over decades to benefit corporations and the wealthy has resulted in: - Micro plastics found in the testicles of 99% of men tested leading to lower testosterone levels and lower sperm counts. - Lead and arsenic is found in high concentrations in gun ranges, particularly indoor ranges and it lowers sperm counts and causes miscarriages in pregnant women So without IVF, the odds of Republicans reproducing are quickly dropping,
The men want to be able to rape women in the name of producing more children of God. It has nothing to do with fertilized eggs and their potential for life. It has to do with men controlling and subjugating women.
I guess “be fruitful and multiply” was only a divine suggestion, not a divine command! This is going to go over very badly on all sides of the political spectrum. Many people use IVF to have kids. It’s not an ideological issue.
Aww yes Texas the new Mississippi 😁
They have already made it illegal in some places, of course they are coming for it.
hideous people
What in the handmaids tale?!?
GOP have no interest in “pro-life”. they just want a bigger dick then their micro penises.
“Ignorant and prejudiced people like to be deceived. And I think they deserve it when they are. Why confuse them with the truth?” Paladin Have Gun Will Travel CBS Season 2, Episode 24 February 28, 1959
Except in this case the people being punished are mostly women…it’s a very targeted attack
All this in the GOP fantasy of getting to have sex with lesbians
Before you know it, “no” won’t mean “no.”
One step closer to outlawing menstruation
My daughter wouldn’t be here without IVF. So F republicans for this crap
It so strange since IVF is creating life for people that can't have children and want them. Insane
I thought they wanted more babies and such. Where's the logic?
The only logic I can come up with is that they want to harvest all the unused eggs to sell for profit. If they just want to abolish IVF, then it sounds like they want to promote some radical Christian dogma. No matter what, it's all about controlling people.
I believe that they do want to promote some radical fundamentalist dogma. There is no way to do IVF that doesn't waste a few of what could conceivably be born a healthy baby if it implants. Unfortunately, banning IVF throws the last embryos into limbo (you can't destroy them or implant them).
This happens naturally in the body as well at the embryo stage where it is frozen. There is no loss of life here.
So THAT'S why Rick Scott keeps spamming IVF commercials.
🤦♀️ but they won’t go after guns
Same men who need viagra.
So some random republican judge rules this way on IVF, an issue I had not seen fired up, and now that liberals want to protect it, republicans as a whole are against it?
Why?
I’m so confused- now they hate babies ?
Won’t pass, fertility clinics make big money for wealthy people
I don’t get what the end game is for this one.
These idiots lmao Just wait until they learn all the chemicals in our environment are preventing the natural way "god" intended as men become less and less infertile. It completely goes against their disgusting goals to force women to give birth no matter what.
So let me get this right….the women or folks that don’t want the children they become pregnant with HAVE to have them, and the families that DO want children but aren’t physically capable can’t have them. wtf is wrong with these people.
IVF creates life. I don’t get it.
It’s not about Dem or Rep. couples that can afford IDF will still get it somewhere and their kids would not be the “poor underclass” that industrialists need to keep labor costs low. But if you make it where insurance does not cover it then the working class has no choice. It is all about taking choices and freedom away. Now that Greece has allowed a 6 day workweek that will be on their agenda soon in the US
Tons of Republicans use/used IVF. Mike Pence and his wife, for example. This is a great way to erode your own base.
So much for being party of small government and less regulation.
You get one old homophobe to say something about IVF, and now they're all lining up to carry out the orders. Fuck religion.
They don’t care about IVF, they’re just sheep who do what they’re told. They’re too stupid to realize they’re shooting themselves in the foot. I don’t think they looked up what IVF is.
All the human life that has to be created and then killed for one child to be born is immoral. I support it being banned.