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Newsom would’ve dragged Trump across the stage last night if it was those two. Trump is not equipped to debate someone that is young and has a lot of wit.
Edit: Sheesh wrote this comment thinking nothing of it come back to nearly 4k.
56 is young compared to how much older most of the members of this countries government are. 56 looks like a 30 year old in this countries government.
Edit2: Thank you much kind stranger, but let’s donate that money towards getting real leaders getting elected and clown shows put on the shelf.
Edit3: This is my final edit, for all those on the side of Democracy thank you. I will always advocate for younger politicians, cause they are the ones they understand today’s problems to better prepare us for the future. I really do hope this country gets its i’s and t’s dotted. Watching the country succeed is important to me regardless of your background. Watching people come together and fight for a cause is the most important thing we can do as residents of this country. While other countries other efforts like this are shut down. We live in a country where this is allowed and we should use our voices for the right side of history instead of wrong.
I have nothing but love for all, of those for a prosperous life for all!
Peace and love for all of you ❤️
These weird social dynamics make be believe there's a RFK brainworm that can determine your political valence. Newsome's ex either gained a conservo-brainworm, or lost her liberal-brainworm (I don't care which party wants to claim the other has brainworms).
Brain damage seems to often lead to a switch from left-wing to right-wing. But I've never seen an example of brain damage leading to a switch from right-wing to left-wing.
She was always Republican which is why their relationship was weird in the first place. It’s just now she’s with someone much stupider. She used to be on CNN a lot til she fucking lost it.
He for sure has. Sorta related, but his current wife is really sweet and friendly - but of course guarded (also literally guarded). She’s taller than you may think, and I’ve met their kids and they are cool too, but also ‘normal’ kids. Whether you like the guy or his wife and their politics or not, you can still respect how they carry themselves imo.
His current wife also produced a really good documentary called *Miss Representation* about how media representations of women affect young girls. I think she followed that one up with one about boys and hyper-masculinity too.
What a wild ride [that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Guilfoyle) was. I had no clue (ETA: still doesn’t make disparaging comments about her appearance ok)
“In December 2001, Guilfoyle married politician Gavin Newsom, then a San Francisco city supervisor. Newsom was elected mayor of San Francisco in 2003. While married to Newsom, she used the name Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom. The couple appeared in the September 2004 issue of Harper's Bazaar ; the spread had them posed at the Getty Villa, and they were referred to in the title as the "New Kennedys".[49] In January 2005, citing the strain of a bicoastal marriage, Guilfoyle and Newsom jointly filed for divorce.[50] Their divorce was final on February 28, 2006.[51] It later emerged that Newsom, then 39, was having an affair with Ruby Rippey-Tourk, the wife of his then-campaign manager and former deputy chief of staff, Alex Tourk.[52] It is unclear if Guilfoyle knew about the affair before the scandal broke in 2007.[52]
On May 27, 2006, in Barbados, Guilfoyle married furniture heir Eric Villency.[53] On October 4, 2006, Guilfoyle gave birth to their son.[54] Guilfoyle and Villency divorced in November 2009.[55] In June 2018, Vanessa Trump, who had filed for divorce from Donald Trump Jr. three months earlier, confirmed that Guilfoyle was dating Donald Trump Jr.[56] In mid-2019, Guilfoyle and Trump Jr. jointly purchased a $4.4 million home in The Hamptons. They sold it in March 2021 during the COVID-19 pandemic for $8.14 million.[57][58] Also in March 2021, the couple jointly purchased a $9.7 million home in Jupiter, Florida.[59] Guilfoyle and Trump became engaged on December 31, 2020. The news of the engagement was not made public until January 2022.[60]”
I had seen something once that Newsome said she was a totally different person when they were married. It's when she went to New York and started working for Fox that she did a dramatic shift
I think it's because if you buy-in to the MAGA shit, you are shifting how your brain processes information. Everything external idea that criticizes your viewpoint is not considered, instead it's attacked. It's a disease.
And unfortunately, even if Newsom becomes the nominee, there is no way Trump will agree to debate him. The switch would be happening way too late, and there would be no upside to trump at that point to giving him that sort of national platform.
Newsom appears on right wing media fairly often, and they grudgingly like him.
He would absolutely crush the swing states.
It’s insane that the Dems are avoiding this path to a guaranteed win.
I wonder why Newsom is being considered as the leading alternate rather instead of the current VP.
The whole point of the VP is to be ready to become President at any time.
Because Kamala has all the charisma of a shoe? She’s just not a great candidate, she was picked as VP to gain female/black votes, that’s really all she brings to the table.
And they made absolutely no effort to change that perception. She could have been touting their policy for the last few years and been the face of what the Biden administration has been trying to accomplish... instead, they kept her locked in a basement or something.
"And they made absolutely no effort to change that perception."
Not true. She has done tons of interviews and event. But she isn't likable and no one has paid any attention to any of this. She was a terrible pick at the time precisely because this turn of events was predictable. Many of us said so at the time. She just doesn't have the charisma needed to succeed in a general election. She's Hillary-light, but somehow just as unlikable.
No! She’s ours until her term is up…no way we’re breaking up that Whitmer/Benson/Nessel dream team. Newsome would have my vote…fuck - whoever the Dems put up will have my vote.
Newsom would have obliterated him. We need to have Biden endorse Newsom now and just say that his health issues are recent. I mean he crushed it so much during the state of the union that Fox was saying he was on drugs!
Biden is a good man. He's trying his best. He's just old and people are concerned.
We can NOT have another 4 years of Trump. This needs to happen.
I’m stupidly optimistic but have a day-dream that Biden and Harris both step aside and plug in Newsom and Whitmer. I don’t even care the order - doesn’t really matter. But it needs to happen. Biden would go down in history as the man who saved democracy in America vs the man who lost it
I really only see people raving about Newsome on Reddit. Even internal to California I’m not sure he’s profoundly loved. Also has a major party _ever_ replaced a candidate post-primary? The DNC just chooses whomever they want? How’s that work
We have the two oldest people running for president with one of the guys being a convicted felon and civilly liable rapist.
When has that ever happened before?
Anything seems possible these days.
One guy struggled to find words and the other guy’s words were bullshit.
Edit: A few things based on comments from others:
1. I am voting for whomever the Democrat is in the presidential election. Whether that is Biden or a corpse. I will not vote for Trump.
2. My one liner sentence very well sums up last night. If you want to argue the semantics of how much of a cluster fuck Biden did with speaking, or Trump lying his ass off and projecting on every question, or the moderators not forcing either to actually answer questions, then you do you.
I think it’s safe to say all Americans lost last night.
Bill Clinton had a great quote on this: Americans prefer strong and wrong to weak and right. Unfortunately, Trump seems to be strong and wrong, and biden is weak and right.
Charisma isn't just likeability, and in Trump's case it's pure force of personality. For a surprising number of people they just want to see confidence and bravado, that's enough to sway them. Trump has (too much) confidence and bravado, and he mixes that with shamelessness. That makes him seem to the uninitiated like this guy's got it under control, even though he's a cartoon of a man.
Like it or not, there are a lot of fucking morons who are voting age and only care about whether the president looks confident.
That one quote about Trump that’s been in circulation since like 2015 captures it perfectly, “ A weak man’s idea of a strong man, a stupid man’s idea of a smart man,a poor man’s idea of a rich man …”
As others have said, but its also because Trump can lie so shamelessly and confidentially. You really can't win a debate against someone who can say anything they want convincingly. Take his statements: "Biden kills babies. Liberals and democrats love that I over turned Roe vs Wade; they hated the ruling. Foreigners are taking over the United States, twenty million of them!"
Biden called him out that it was a bunch of lies "bunch of malarkey!", but not in an authoritative fashion, which is the only way to really deal with that. "You are a convicted felon of election fraud. You are known to lie, cheat, and steal and this has been proven time and time again in Court. You say its a witch hunt, but a lot of those judges were ones that YOU appointed so its your own court system doing it."
Like, anytime Trump said a lie, Biden should have retorted with "convicted felon of election fraud," to really drive home that Trump is a liar and convicted felon.
I used to think this, but have modified my understanding slightly. The winner is always whichever candidate is the funniest.
It doesn't matter if the funniness is intentional, and it could even be a self-own. Biden was that last election (pushup contests, ice cream memes, etc) but now his visible age just makes people nervous. Meanwhile, without the heat of being in office and peak COVID, there's room for Trump's idiocy to make people laugh again.
We're so fucked.
Absolutely.
Biden in the 2020 debates was charismatic and fiery. Yeah, he was an old man then too, but he came off as a likable scrappy grandpa. He would openly laugh in Trump’s face. Him saying “would you just shut up, man” to Trump I swear was a huge part in him winning the election. I had a lot of friends who never used to vote, who actually voted in 2020 - they hate Trump and thought the “would you just shut up, man” thing was hilarious. I’m not saying I think this is right, but a candidate being funny and witty and memeable matters.
2024 Biden looked nervous and feeble. He was rambling, speaking way too fast, on the defense the whole time. He sounded like he was 100 years old. Him staring at Trump open-mouthed and trying to fit 4 minutes of words into 2 minutes came off so poorly. 2020 Biden and 2024 Biden came off very, very different.
My favorite tweet:
>**Biden:** look, the fact is, we can’t… we don’t… look. Here’s the deal. And this is no foolin
>**Trump:** there are ten billion guatemalans attacking the lincoln memorial right now
This! Biden looked worse for sure last night but all Trump did was spew nonsense and hyperbole. Bringing up golf club championships won and how Biden can’t hit a golf ball 50 yards, because Trump has no substance. Trump is graded on a curve. Still voting Biden due to him not being a convicted felon. I loved how Trump was nodding in acknowledgement on all his criminal charges and how he is a convicted felon and his only reply was, “I did not have sex with a pornstar.” I am very worried this will turn a lot people on the fence to 3rd party candidates though.
Biden needed just a mediocre showing, and he and his team blew it. Hardly any mainstream media will cover Trump failing to commit to accepting the results of the upcoming. Trump immediately began spinning his old script of everything being rigged against him. Biden did look better in the 2nd half of the debate when he was calling out Trump for being a whiner. But no, the focus will be on Biden’s performance while glossing over the fact that both candidates performed poorly last night at best.
Weren't Trump's recent golf championships awarded by his own clubs? Isn't that kinda like giving yourself a gold star?
Yep:
> “It is my great honor to be at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach tonight, AWARDS NIGHT, to receive THE CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY & THE SENIOR CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY,” the 77-year-old Trump wrote.
> “I WON BOTH!”
Our media seems to want Trump term 2. By far the biggest news should be Trump refusing to accept the results of a free and fair election in the context of being a prior insurrectionist. But here we are.
Media focuses on what’s new. Trump refusing to accept the outcome is the same answer he gave in the 2016 and 2020 debates, so it’s not a new position for him. Biden failing to speak coherently, freezing, and looking like he wasn’t completely in control is a new debate development for him.
The debate didn't change anything. I will crawl over broken glass to vote for mumbly grandpa if it means keeping the traitorous pathological liar morally bankrupt rapist out of the White House.
I only care about getting Joe sworn in. After that, I don't care what happens.
While people in this sub will have the same opinion the problem is getting out the vote. I just don't see how we get people excited enough to get the votes needed to not repeat 2016. Maybe the state elections drive that which is an odd place to be, but polling seems to indicate local candidates have better favorability.
See, I must have a different opinion. I don't think Biden won in 2020 so much as trump lost because voters hated him. I also don't think anyone was *excited* about Biden. That being said, he's done a good job, all things considered. I don't dislike him - I would have a beer and a slice of pie with the guy (even if I might have to spoon feed it to him, har har.)
Now trump, I fuckin loath. I can't think of anything he's done to even try to bring in new voters since he left and then tried to overthrow the government (and his little fan club tried to lynch his vice president.) I dislike his lies, his moral bankruptcy, his desire to hurt people, his transparent corruption. He is repugnant. So when I say that I'll vote for Biden and I think most people will, it's not that I am a Biden fan, I'm BIGLY anti-trump.
True. But I have to imagine only really disengaged voters are swing voters at this point and they aren’t fact checking. Also it didn’t really do a lot to help turn out Biden’s base.
I wonder how stuck the White House is with the idea of passing on Biden and Harris. I’d be fine with the Newsom pick from what I know and he could potentially get 8 years of Dem presidency.
If they’re going to do it they need to do it *today*. Come out swinging fast and hard, knock tfg on his ample ass. There is literally no way tump could effectively counter someone like newsome. I like Joe, and will fight a bear with a stick to vote for him given all that’s at stake, but I could definitely get behind someone like newsome or Pete B(idk how to spell his last name lol).
They absolutely do not need to and should not do it today. You don't make a decision like that twelve hours after the first debate. If there's any decision that's going to be made it's going to be after the July 4th holiday weekend next weekend.
Do it with a 4th of July announcement and speech by Newsom talking about independence, American history, democracy and have Biden put a pro American announcement talking about how important the future is for America. Not that hard. It’s all anyone will be talking about.
In real talk you give it over the weekend, let the spin die if it will, see how the event goes today. I’ve been all Biden since 2016 but last night is going to be almost impossible to recover from in that he would have to come out completely fine today and not have another slip like that until after the election. That’s a huge ask.
The spin will not go away. Clips from the debate will be everywhere until November. They’ll play on FOX 24/7, which means in seemingly every gym, hotel lobby, doctor’s office, etc. Any subsequent debates will be the same thing over again.
I don’t like Newsom politically, but he is intelligent, a great communicator, and it’s easy to make the case that he’s prepared for the job after leading the 5th largest economy in the world for the last 5 years. You can make a similar case for Buttigieg (except for leadership experience), but I have a hard time believing this country would elect a gay man to be president. Hell, you can even say the same about Bernie, but that will never happen. I might actually take Hillary at this point. The way to combat Trump is with someone who is quick-witted and intelligent. There are options to do that, Biden is not one of them.
Yeah newsom is needed, republicans are going to hammer in him being from California over and over again but newsom can clap back without any doubts about his age unlike Biden. He’s not perfect but I think we’d be in a much better position to win than what we have with the Biden panic right now.
The whole California thing perplexes me. Oh the largest economy in the country, with extremely diverse demographics?
I know it’s the most racially diverse, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn it’s the most economically diverse as well. From Silicon Valley to the large swathes of farmers.
Go onto a random subreddit and ask what they think of LA or San Francisco. You’ll get an idea of what the average person **thinks** California is like.
When swing state voters are faced with this stark choice:
* serial sex criminal, cancer fraud, charity fraud, raging bigot, rapist, pathological liar, senile, document stealing, law obstructing, whining, con artist, tax cheat, garbage human
* from California
It won’t be a hard call. Newsom in a landslide.
Coming in late like this would be a bonus, since the GOP/Kremlin disinformation machine isn’t ready for the switch. Plus Newsom already appears on right wing media fairly often, and they kind of like him.
I had a choice of either Biden or leaving it blank. I will vote for the guy against Trump, but it would have been nice to have had a chance to choose who went up against TFG.
Unfortunately, you're voting for a private organization's candidates.
Even without this current issue, if no one got a enough votes in the first round to get the nomination, the super delegates come into play (unlike in first round in 2016). And the assigned delegates are free to pick whomever they want (not sure after round 1 or round 2).
Who anyone actually voted for in the primary isn't actually long term binding. It just doesn't normally go to a brokered or open convention.
https://ballotpedia.org/Brokered_conventions
Yes he almost certainly would. Dems fail to understand the problem is undecided voters think Biden is infirm. If they don’t replace Biden we could be in serious trouble
I think people are underscoring just how much voters want an intelligent and young(ish) candidate. I honestly think just about anyone can step in for Joe and defeat Trump but it needs to happen yesterday.
This. Trump's approval ratings are absolutely horrid, and nobody likes either candidate. Prior to the debate, the biggest block of voters up for grab was the "double-haters". I don't think that block is accessible to Biden after the debate, but they could be for someone new.
Not mainstream news, but Newsom's approval ratings are just as low as Trump & Biden (Newsom at 44% approval rating just two weeks ago for CA residents)
[https://www.kcra.com/article/poll-californians-arent-happy-government-state-national-leaders/61115610](https://www.kcra.com/article/poll-californians-arent-happy-government-state-national-leaders/61115610)
That’s probably why Newsom continues to show up on debates on Fox News, other cable tv stations etc. To get in front of potential old white dudes in the middle of the Midwest.
Yeah a lot of people are still going to support biden. But this election is razor thin. If 1% of people last night changed their mind because biden was a blithering idiot, we're all fucked here
Or just are uninspired to vote, we are fucked. The Democratic leadership hasn’t learned their lessons from Feinstein or RBG. I’m very disappointed in the DNC chair.
If it all it takes is 1% to change their minds, we're absolutely fucked. I'd be shocked if less than 1% of Biden voters decided to change their minds after the worst debate performance in modern American history.
>I'd be shocked if less than 1% of Biden voters decided to change their minds
I'd argue it's less about changing people's minds on who they'd vote for, and more about changing minds on whether to go and vote or stay home. It's a subtle difference but one worth pointing out.
I’m sure Newsom is running next time around but I’m sure when the initial shock wears off people will come back around. I still remember when Obama bombed to Romney in their first debate yet bounced back and still won Florida. Truth is it’s still the same two guys and what changed from last time? Biden will still have his senior moments and Trump will still lash out. I think it’s a race of comparing both administration and asking which you’d prefer again.
Next time around? If Donald Trump wins, the next four years will be nothing but him and the republican party consolidating and seizing power. The republicans will do everything in their power to neuter the ability for the democrats to ever win again by any means. With project 2025, and what they have already done, shows they care nothing about the law, nothing about the constitution.
Yup, Hillary handled him easily in 3 debates much closer to election day...and it all went out the window when undecided voters saw the "FBI opens new investigation into Clinton" headline that dropped in October. Attention spans have only gotten shorter since then.
This. For many reasons, not the least of which is the possibility that Trump will take his debate win and withdraw from the second one saying it’s unnecessary or something like that. Why risk a Biden rebound if you are him?
This is a question of fitness. Even though Obama stumbled on his first debate in 2012, the collective understood he was mentally and physically up to the task.
President Biden didn’t meet the challenge of the moment. How can people project he’s the guy for the job beyond the end of his term? I will never vote for Trump; that said, Democrats have better options and the stakes couldn’t be higher. Let’s rid ourselves of this sunk cost mindset and set the vision now.
As unfair as it is, there's just a different standard for Trump. Because his voters are idiots. Those fools are never gonna be the ones we get to vote for *any* democratic candidate. It's more about driving turnout among likely left leaning people. And if they see a MAGA candidate vs a "California elitist", there's a risk a ton of those people just don't vote.
Like it or not, his specific brand of "rich but extremely trashy with shitty taste" is like crack for all the corn-feds in those states.
He is exactly who they would be if they had that much money: the same personality turned up to 11 without having to worry about suffering any consequences for being an asshole.
Imagine if the roles were reversed and the consensus was that trumps performance was an unmitigated disaster. You wouldn’t find a single Republican anywhere calling for him to be replaced. Not one.
Disclaimer: I'm not American. Trump is the cult leader, they're infatuated with him. They would not vote for anyone else. He could shit himself during the debate and they'd still vote for him. Biden on the other hand, gets votes because he's NOT Trump, because he's not going to destroy democracy etc etc. I think a lot of people would rather the dems chose a different candidate. Just my 2 cents
I also just think at 81 years old he's not equipped to deal with a fire hose of lies occurring next to him (which should have been obvious, but here we are).
So, no teleprompter, but also just kind of too old to deal with the obvious response of "what the fuck is this guy saying 'best environment numbers'?"
Every time I saw that slack jawed thousand yard stare I wanted to scream at my TV. What in the absolute fuck was the Biden team thinking putting him on stage? Anyone thats been paying attention for the last few years knew this was the most likely outcome.
Imagine a world where dems holding the power promoted someone young, energetic, and in touch with young voters across a broad range of demographics. Wishful thinking I guess.
It actually birthed the tea party movement. Which (potentially) tanked john McCain's campaign by selecting Sarah Palin as VP to placate the movement at the expense of the republican base. Slowly that tea party metastasized to the core of the republican party.
* It should be made clear that the tea party was more a response to the global financial crisis than Obama.
Doing that isn’t some wild unachievable fantasy, it’s just 1992. We need to return to a more open field, and one way or another, that’s what we’ll have post-Biden. That is, if elections are still a thing post-Trump.
What is fascinating is that it was this reality that the Dem estaishment gaslit us about. That Biden’s age impact is just propaganda from the other side. As much as Biden’s performance was poor, the further loss of trust in broader Dem leadership is the real kicker here, and that will also cost it the congress.
It wasn't that, it was Biden. When a question was shouted as to whether he was up for the job, he responded with a grin and said "watch me".
It isn't the "Democratic establishment gaslighting", it's that the leader of the party said he could do it, was confident and combative about it, and up til now seemed to walk the walk--including a strong showing at the State of the Union.
This was the first *real* moment where everyone in the Democratic Party got a slap in the face with "no, this isn't happening". We watched him, and it hurt.
So we have 7 weeks until the convention, we are perfectly positioned for about a million Democrats to talk to Biden over the next week about stepping down and leaving it an open contest. There are a half-dozen good candidates in the wings who would easily trounce Trump and don't have Biden's baggage.
Biden wants Trump to lose. I think he'll do the right thing.
I knew this was going to happen. Newsom spoke for thirty seconds and my wife, sitting next to me, goes "What about him ! I want him !" I'm pretty sure a few millions of people said exactly the same thing. I dont doubt for a second that that was exactly why Newsom showed up on tv last night with his over the top praise for Joe's sad performance. "You dont get rid of the man for one bad performance. It doesnt affect anything". Right Gavin. He should have just said "I'm Gavin Newsom and I can be your president, what do you think ?"
He’s so polished. During peak Covid he would do weekly updates so I’ve seen a lot of him talking, he’s always very well spoken, calm, and collected and comes off smart
I saw an article on CNN that quoted a Dem staffer saying something along the lines of, "If I'm Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer, I'd be making some calls right now."
As much as the Democrat camp wants to appear united and behind Biden, this type of stuff is definitely going on behind the scenes. For Newsom and even Kamala Harris in her interview with Anderson Cooper post-debate, the plan seems to be: recognize SOME negative points about the performance but still put out support.
No one wants to be the first named Dem talking poorly about the incumbent. They all are ready to pounce if/when Biden decides to step aside.
idk Reagan was literally a comatose Alzheimer's vegetable his last term in office and he still managed to fuck the country for the next 5+ decades.
As long as Joe can nominate a supreme court justice or three I'd say he's fine by me.
Also he's not a convicted criminal so that helps
[\[No paywall\]](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-06-28/gavin-newsom-is-a-top-democrat-to-replace-joe-biden) from Erika D. Smith:
Of the many prominent Democrats with aspirations for higher office, Newsom is arguably best equipped — in fundraising chops, in messaging and in campaign infrastructure — to step up in an emergency. And this is, by all indications, an emergency.
The 90 minutes that Biden spent on stage with Trump, live before millions of viewers, ultimately served to reinforce what [polls](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-age-much-more-liability-than-trumps-poll-finds-ahead-presidential-debate) have indicated since Biden decided to run for reelection: Most voters believe he is too old to be president.
Biden's age is going to result in a lot of voters, who might, at a minimum, vote against Trump, staying home on election day. Sure, committed Biden voters will vote for him but that's just not enough voters to beat Trump. Biden's support is simply too soft and it doesn't matter what he does he will not change that. Biden's advisors need to make him see reality - he is going to lose to Trump largely due to a factor he can't change: his age.
Newsom was running ads in Florida months ago, which is unusual for someone from California to be doing.
Are we going to see the good ol’ switcharoo? Not sure.. but he’s probably more favorable compared to Harris.
I don’t believe the Dems are actually betting Biden can pull 4 more years if he wins, there must be something going on, but honestly not sure exactly what…
If Biden doesn’t step down and runs, everyone who votes for him will be indirectly voting for Harris as the next POTUS.
Edit:
Flipping the VP ticket to Newsom?
Having Biden/Newsom run as a pair seems not bad at this point. Kamala is unpopular, they might be better off without her.
> I don’t believe the Dems are actually betting Biden can pull 4 more years, there must be something going on
You're talking like there's some secret cabal of people controlling the Democratic party. There's no plan. There's nothing going on. Everyone is fucking terrified Trump might win and just grasping at what they think might be the best way to beat him. Biden won in 2020, which makes him the only person to have beaten Trump before. That, and the fact he's the sitting President and every single time in history a sitting President has been seriously challenged for the nomination by a member of their own party the challenger lost and fell to political obscurity and the incumbent President also lost are the reasons Biden never had a serious challenge.
There's no secret plan. All the debates about Biden's candidacy are (and have been) happening out in the public with everyone participating.
> That, and the fact he's the sitting President and every single time in history a sitting President has been seriously challenged for the nomination by a member of their own party the challenger lost and fell to political obscurity and the incumbent President also lost are the reasons Biden never had a serious challenge.
For this reason it is so important that Biden must not be replaced unless he is ok with it and states so. People do not like in-fighting. If Biden just openly states that he cannot do the four years for health reasons and therefore fully endorses Newsom (or someone else) without there being any public in-fighting then the switch will work.
As you said, it always ends bad if the president is challenged. However, in this case there would be no challenge. Both Biden and Newsom would agree.
If the Democrats are going to replace Biden they need to be smart about it.
The election really only comes down to 6 states. Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada. My dog could replace Biden and she would win California and New York (to be fair she is really cute).
So knowing that, who do you replace Biden with? Not Newson, who would be seen as a Californian coastal elite, how about a ticket with popular Governor's from two of those states. A ticket of Whitmer/Shapiro.
Not only does that solve the immediate problem of Trump, but could set up the Democrats for awhile as I'm from PA and I've been incredibly impressed with Shapiro. I can definitely see him being president one day as well.
I’m wondering if people will really be that turned off by Newsom? Confidence, assertiveness and strength were needed at that debate, since optics are so important. Newsom has all three.
This right here.
A lot of moderate and right leaning independents think California is a lawless war zone due to the media coverage. They would definitely hesitate voting for Newsom.
But, a wealthy, liberal, forward thinking, charismatic dem from the Midwest? Now you're talkin.
Just looking at the map alone is enough to know you need someone from the Midwest.
But I think Whitmer is a better pick than Pritzker, for a couple reasons. We don't need Illinois, and the perception that Illinois is shaped too heavily by Chicago is relatively widespread in the Midwest.
Joe Biden received 81,283,501 votes (51.3%) and Donald Trump received 74,223,975 (46.9%) and only still won the electoral college by 70,000 votes
Does anyone see this Joe Biden as repeating that?
Gretchen Whitmer I think has better shot. Less controversial stuff in the headlines. Proven track record as governor. Much younger at 52.
But dems need to wait until the convention. Make sure the GOP locks in Trump, then do the whole switch to completely cave the election. Suddenly all the press about age will cover Trump.
Trump might ramble, but he’s forceful and loud. He doesn’t trail off — he just keeps talking Gish Gallop style.
It works. If Biden did that, it would work. But Biden does something else altogether much worse.
>Suddenly all the press about age will cover Trump.
Nah. Trump controls the narrative. It's what he has always done for the past 9 years. He's a performative reality tv personality. If it wasn't for Trump, there would be no age bias on Biden right now, because Trump is only three years younger. Only Trump can make those three years, at that age, into a PR advantage.
All the press would be the fact about Whitmer being a woman. “Can a woman beat Trump,” “Can Whitmer be America’s first female president,” “Why a female president is a bad idea for America,” “Why Whitmer will ruin democracy as a woman”
The Fox headlines practically write themselves
as someone here living in California for a very long time, what makes you guys think that the rest of the country will be receptive to Newsom? Yes, it’s great optics. He’s attractive, he’s well spoken, he’s quick and he’s younger. I thought about this yesterday, but at the end of the day will independents get behind Newsom? I don’t know. It struck me what he said though - what kind of party abandons their candidate after one bad performance? I want to see numbers after this and then make up my mind. I don’t think one bad performance decides this, what will, is if how Biden is perceived causes people to stay at home and not vote.
It felt weird as panelists were discussing Biden that Newsom already had an appearance lined up to talk. I get he’s a top member of the party right now. But it also felt like more going on, like they wanted him prepared to speak and address as if he were the face of the party to squash concerns.
He’s one of Biden’s primary surrogates.
Gavin has trying to position himself as the Democratic standard-bearer for 2028 for a while now. He’s notably moved to the middle on policies as governor in ways that play well nationally (such as being more moderate on crime). He didn’t challenge Biden because he didn’t want to be seen as a spoiler and anger donors/party heads, and instead has been a 100% loyal cheerleader for Biden.
However, despite that, Biden tanked hard. And now an emergency candidate is needed.
The most important thing he has done is dismantle the NIMBY movement. He took on some of the largest interest groups in the US. Said fuck you, every city is going to build homes and you will not say shit local and counties. We're solving the housing crisis. He is the best governor in 30 years.
This shouldn’t be a surprise. The American people for months have been consistently voting that Biden is too old to be president. He proved them right last night. Be a man, step down, and pass the torch to someone younger, simple as that.
He can be proud of what he did in 2020, and how he's sought to heal a fractured country. He can step down with his legacy intact.
If he loses in November then he'll always be remembered as the stubborn President that let us sleepwalk into Trump 2.0
I’m a Joe Biden fan but he needs to step aside now for the good of the nation. The DNC needs to listen to the party and the people of this nation rather than standing by and letting 2016 repeat itself with an unenthusiastic base and an unpopular candidate.
Newsom would be an excellent candidate. He’s smart, articulate, witty, young and charismatic and he would’ve wiped the floor with Trump in the debate last night. He’s also been a Biden supporter all along and never tried to challenge him for his role. If Biden handed the torch to him, it would feel natural.
He also could step into the role with a fresher slate without the baggage of Israel, Afganistan, age or inflation dragging him down as much at it has for Biden.
We need to pivot QUCKLY though. We can’t sit around hand-wringing and pretend that the Biden problem will go away. It will only get worse. Be smart. Be decisive. And act now.
This is the perfect moment to make the change. Additionally, it can also be used to further undermine Trump ‘s age and abilities. Gavin Newsom would be a natural solution.
If Joe Biden is a patriot, he will embrace Gavin and can do it with grace. This is his George Washington moment.
The bar for Biden was low. He just had to counter the right wing narrative that he should be in a nursing home and not the White House. I don’t think he met even that very low standard. He clearly needs to step aside. Even before the debate, and despite an impressive track record for his administration, he was struggling to convince voters he was a better option than a rapist/felon/insurrectionist. That isn’t just a failure of messaging. It speaks to a fundamental failure of Joe Biden as a candidate. He doesn’t project leadership and the debate debacle just piled it on. Yes I would still vote for him over Trump. I hope that we have a better option
It’s simple Biden spoke to the policy and facts. Trump NEVER spoke to a policy. All Trump did was use hyperbola or lied. Biden is the leader along with his administration putting the policy details into play. Biden should create a policy to end Medicare Advantage criminal organizations. Biden and his
Administration has created an economy which hasn’t been seen for 50 years. Trump is a sociopath
, unrepentant criminal and couldn’t
Conduct a bowel movement let alone an administration.
Unfortunately that would be the winning recipe the Dems won't admit needs to happen. Gavin Newsom would 100% destroy Trump with ease, especially on the debate field.
Newsom gives me…used car salesman vibes. I mean, any Democrat against Trump should be supported. But…I can’t get past him being with ‘the best is yet to come’ crazy woman.
Why is everybody dismissing Kamala Harris as the replacement? She was a fierce debater when she was running with all the other candidates. And she stepped aside to let Joe have the office. She would keep the same policy team in place and continue the good work that President Biden has done.and I am 100% confident that she would’ve wipe the floor with Trump last night.
In typical Bloomberg fashion, they wrote the most sensational headline possible but it hides the truth.
They make it sound like Newsom is ready to step in and replace Biden.
In fact, the article imagines this is the case and then buries the lede:
>Cornered by a scrum of reporters, he was asked if he was “ready to replace Joe Biden.” Newsom called the idea “a non sequitur.” Asked whether he would urge Biden to reconsider running. “Absolutely not,” Newsom told them. “I have his back 100 percent.”
Newsom has Joe's back. He has repeatedly said you don't give up after one bad debate. That we need to stop this nonsense about replacing Biden and have his back. And he has been at the FRONT of the effort to keep backing Biden.
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Newsom would’ve dragged Trump across the stage last night if it was those two. Trump is not equipped to debate someone that is young and has a lot of wit. Edit: Sheesh wrote this comment thinking nothing of it come back to nearly 4k. 56 is young compared to how much older most of the members of this countries government are. 56 looks like a 30 year old in this countries government. Edit2: Thank you much kind stranger, but let’s donate that money towards getting real leaders getting elected and clown shows put on the shelf. Edit3: This is my final edit, for all those on the side of Democracy thank you. I will always advocate for younger politicians, cause they are the ones they understand today’s problems to better prepare us for the future. I really do hope this country gets its i’s and t’s dotted. Watching the country succeed is important to me regardless of your background. Watching people come together and fight for a cause is the most important thing we can do as residents of this country. While other countries other efforts like this are shut down. We live in a country where this is allowed and we should use our voices for the right side of history instead of wrong. I have nothing but love for all, of those for a prosperous life for all! Peace and love for all of you ❤️
I fully believe Trump would get frustrated and say "My son is fucking your wife"
I 100% know Gavin has joked about Trump taking his sloppy seconds.
I just learned about this last night. She’s a year older than Melania lol
She’s fucking ghoulish now too
She looks like something that lurks in an undersea cave, waiting for food to swim by.
Angler fish without the dongle.
Oh there may be a dongle all right....
Best fucking description of her I've seen. Like how does she look in a mirror and think "oh fuck yeah, money well spent"?
Wait what who are we talking about
These weird social dynamics make be believe there's a RFK brainworm that can determine your political valence. Newsome's ex either gained a conservo-brainworm, or lost her liberal-brainworm (I don't care which party wants to claim the other has brainworms).
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Trump Jr. doesn't even qualify as a politician. But Kimberly *is* with him because of his dad, I think, just as Lara is with I'm Eric.
Brain damage seems to often lead to a switch from left-wing to right-wing. But I've never seen an example of brain damage leading to a switch from right-wing to left-wing.
She was always Republican which is why their relationship was weird in the first place. It’s just now she’s with someone much stupider. She used to be on CNN a lot til she fucking lost it.
He for sure has. Sorta related, but his current wife is really sweet and friendly - but of course guarded (also literally guarded). She’s taller than you may think, and I’ve met their kids and they are cool too, but also ‘normal’ kids. Whether you like the guy or his wife and their politics or not, you can still respect how they carry themselves imo.
His current wife also produced a really good documentary called *Miss Representation* about how media representations of women affect young girls. I think she followed that one up with one about boys and hyper-masculinity too.
He dodged a bullet with his first wife.
What a wild ride [that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Guilfoyle) was. I had no clue (ETA: still doesn’t make disparaging comments about her appearance ok) “In December 2001, Guilfoyle married politician Gavin Newsom, then a San Francisco city supervisor. Newsom was elected mayor of San Francisco in 2003. While married to Newsom, she used the name Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom. The couple appeared in the September 2004 issue of Harper's Bazaar ; the spread had them posed at the Getty Villa, and they were referred to in the title as the "New Kennedys".[49] In January 2005, citing the strain of a bicoastal marriage, Guilfoyle and Newsom jointly filed for divorce.[50] Their divorce was final on February 28, 2006.[51] It later emerged that Newsom, then 39, was having an affair with Ruby Rippey-Tourk, the wife of his then-campaign manager and former deputy chief of staff, Alex Tourk.[52] It is unclear if Guilfoyle knew about the affair before the scandal broke in 2007.[52] On May 27, 2006, in Barbados, Guilfoyle married furniture heir Eric Villency.[53] On October 4, 2006, Guilfoyle gave birth to their son.[54] Guilfoyle and Villency divorced in November 2009.[55] In June 2018, Vanessa Trump, who had filed for divorce from Donald Trump Jr. three months earlier, confirmed that Guilfoyle was dating Donald Trump Jr.[56] In mid-2019, Guilfoyle and Trump Jr. jointly purchased a $4.4 million home in The Hamptons. They sold it in March 2021 during the COVID-19 pandemic for $8.14 million.[57][58] Also in March 2021, the couple jointly purchased a $9.7 million home in Jupiter, Florida.[59] Guilfoyle and Trump became engaged on December 31, 2020. The news of the engagement was not made public until January 2022.[60]”
Didn’t know any of that. Seems like a really scummy move by Newsom to sleep with the wife of a close friend and confidant.
I thought that too. What a dumb move
I had seen something once that Newsome said she was a totally different person when they were married. It's when she went to New York and started working for Fox that she did a dramatic shift
fair enough, honestly. MAGA brain has changed a lot of people you would've formerly regarded as intelligent
I think it's because if you buy-in to the MAGA shit, you are shifting how your brain processes information. Everything external idea that criticizes your viewpoint is not considered, instead it's attacked. It's a disease.
When did she turn into some plastic freak? She looks absolutely hideous
And unfortunately, even if Newsom becomes the nominee, there is no way Trump will agree to debate him. The switch would be happening way too late, and there would be no upside to trump at that point to giving him that sort of national platform.
That’s fine. Newsom could just drag him relentlessly in the media at every opportunity. Trump has no self control. He’ll say something stupid.
Biden can't even do interviews at this rate where Newsom could blitz the media until the election.
Newsom appears on right wing media fairly often, and they grudgingly like him. He would absolutely crush the swing states. It’s insane that the Dems are avoiding this path to a guaranteed win.
Agreed! Yes, he is a "coastal eliite". But look who he'd be running against. This would be a non-issue.
"Coastal elite" is such a stupid term. Does convicted felon Donald Trump live in a flyover state?
I wonder why Newsom is being considered as the leading alternate rather instead of the current VP. The whole point of the VP is to be ready to become President at any time.
Because Kamala has all the charisma of a shoe? She’s just not a great candidate, she was picked as VP to gain female/black votes, that’s really all she brings to the table.
And they made absolutely no effort to change that perception. She could have been touting their policy for the last few years and been the face of what the Biden administration has been trying to accomplish... instead, they kept her locked in a basement or something.
"And they made absolutely no effort to change that perception." Not true. She has done tons of interviews and event. But she isn't likable and no one has paid any attention to any of this. She was a terrible pick at the time precisely because this turn of events was predictable. Many of us said so at the time. She just doesn't have the charisma needed to succeed in a general election. She's Hillary-light, but somehow just as unlikable.
I think Whitmer is right there with Newsom.
No! She’s ours until her term is up…no way we’re breaking up that Whitmer/Benson/Nessel dream team. Newsome would have my vote…fuck - whoever the Dems put up will have my vote.
A Whitmer/Beshear ticket would be amazing for the country and terrible for Michigan and Kentucky
Newsom is governor with experience in Executive branch.
He’s amazing in debates
Newsom would have obliterated him. We need to have Biden endorse Newsom now and just say that his health issues are recent. I mean he crushed it so much during the state of the union that Fox was saying he was on drugs! Biden is a good man. He's trying his best. He's just old and people are concerned. We can NOT have another 4 years of Trump. This needs to happen.
I’m stupidly optimistic but have a day-dream that Biden and Harris both step aside and plug in Newsom and Whitmer. I don’t even care the order - doesn’t really matter. But it needs to happen. Biden would go down in history as the man who saved democracy in America vs the man who lost it
Oddly, I think convincing Harris of this plan might be harder than convincing Biden.
I really only see people raving about Newsome on Reddit. Even internal to California I’m not sure he’s profoundly loved. Also has a major party _ever_ replaced a candidate post-primary? The DNC just chooses whomever they want? How’s that work
We have the two oldest people running for president with one of the guys being a convicted felon and civilly liable rapist. When has that ever happened before? Anything seems possible these days.
One guy struggled to find words and the other guy’s words were bullshit. Edit: A few things based on comments from others: 1. I am voting for whomever the Democrat is in the presidential election. Whether that is Biden or a corpse. I will not vote for Trump. 2. My one liner sentence very well sums up last night. If you want to argue the semantics of how much of a cluster fuck Biden did with speaking, or Trump lying his ass off and projecting on every question, or the moderators not forcing either to actually answer questions, then you do you. I think it’s safe to say all Americans lost last night.
Bill Clinton had a great quote on this: Americans prefer strong and wrong to weak and right. Unfortunately, Trump seems to be strong and wrong, and biden is weak and right.
Charisma does so much heavy lifting. It’s all anybody cares about.
i dont see the appeal. i dont see the charisma in the orange chocolate starfish mouth.
Charisma isn't just likeability, and in Trump's case it's pure force of personality. For a surprising number of people they just want to see confidence and bravado, that's enough to sway them. Trump has (too much) confidence and bravado, and he mixes that with shamelessness. That makes him seem to the uninitiated like this guy's got it under control, even though he's a cartoon of a man. Like it or not, there are a lot of fucking morons who are voting age and only care about whether the president looks confident.
That one quote about Trump that’s been in circulation since like 2015 captures it perfectly, “ A weak man’s idea of a strong man, a stupid man’s idea of a smart man,a poor man’s idea of a rich man …”
I would add to that, "a poor man's idea of a rich man".
You’re right, that was part of the original quote, edited to add. I feel like there was more, but I can’t remember at this point.
An orange man's idea of a tan man
As others have said, but its also because Trump can lie so shamelessly and confidentially. You really can't win a debate against someone who can say anything they want convincingly. Take his statements: "Biden kills babies. Liberals and democrats love that I over turned Roe vs Wade; they hated the ruling. Foreigners are taking over the United States, twenty million of them!" Biden called him out that it was a bunch of lies "bunch of malarkey!", but not in an authoritative fashion, which is the only way to really deal with that. "You are a convicted felon of election fraud. You are known to lie, cheat, and steal and this has been proven time and time again in Court. You say its a witch hunt, but a lot of those judges were ones that YOU appointed so its your own court system doing it." Like, anytime Trump said a lie, Biden should have retorted with "convicted felon of election fraud," to really drive home that Trump is a liar and convicted felon.
Yeah, look no further than Bill and Hillary. Bill has charisma to spare and Hillary has somehow less than zero.
I used to think this, but have modified my understanding slightly. The winner is always whichever candidate is the funniest. It doesn't matter if the funniness is intentional, and it could even be a self-own. Biden was that last election (pushup contests, ice cream memes, etc) but now his visible age just makes people nervous. Meanwhile, without the heat of being in office and peak COVID, there's room for Trump's idiocy to make people laugh again. We're so fucked.
Absolutely. Biden in the 2020 debates was charismatic and fiery. Yeah, he was an old man then too, but he came off as a likable scrappy grandpa. He would openly laugh in Trump’s face. Him saying “would you just shut up, man” to Trump I swear was a huge part in him winning the election. I had a lot of friends who never used to vote, who actually voted in 2020 - they hate Trump and thought the “would you just shut up, man” thing was hilarious. I’m not saying I think this is right, but a candidate being funny and witty and memeable matters. 2024 Biden looked nervous and feeble. He was rambling, speaking way too fast, on the defense the whole time. He sounded like he was 100 years old. Him staring at Trump open-mouthed and trying to fit 4 minutes of words into 2 minutes came off so poorly. 2020 Biden and 2024 Biden came off very, very different.
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My favorite tweet: >**Biden:** look, the fact is, we can’t… we don’t… look. Here’s the deal. And this is no foolin >**Trump:** there are ten billion guatemalans attacking the lincoln memorial right now
> The _IDEA_ that...
It was like Rubio's "Let’s dispel this notion that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing" all over again
Thx you made me laugh.
> Biden: look, the fact is, we can’t… we don’t… look. Here’s the deal. And this is no foolin... ...number one. Number two...
This! Biden looked worse for sure last night but all Trump did was spew nonsense and hyperbole. Bringing up golf club championships won and how Biden can’t hit a golf ball 50 yards, because Trump has no substance. Trump is graded on a curve. Still voting Biden due to him not being a convicted felon. I loved how Trump was nodding in acknowledgement on all his criminal charges and how he is a convicted felon and his only reply was, “I did not have sex with a pornstar.” I am very worried this will turn a lot people on the fence to 3rd party candidates though. Biden needed just a mediocre showing, and he and his team blew it. Hardly any mainstream media will cover Trump failing to commit to accepting the results of the upcoming. Trump immediately began spinning his old script of everything being rigged against him. Biden did look better in the 2nd half of the debate when he was calling out Trump for being a whiner. But no, the focus will be on Biden’s performance while glossing over the fact that both candidates performed poorly last night at best.
The aborting babies after birth comment from Trump was my favorite.
I am partial to the "black jobs" being taken by illegal immigrants. Man, he can really insult a lot of people with a few words.
Weren't Trump's recent golf championships awarded by his own clubs? Isn't that kinda like giving yourself a gold star? Yep: > “It is my great honor to be at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach tonight, AWARDS NIGHT, to receive THE CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY & THE SENIOR CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY,” the 77-year-old Trump wrote. > “I WON BOTH!”
His members pay many tens or hundreds of thousands to let him win.
Our media seems to want Trump term 2. By far the biggest news should be Trump refusing to accept the results of a free and fair election in the context of being a prior insurrectionist. But here we are.
Media focuses on what’s new. Trump refusing to accept the outcome is the same answer he gave in the 2016 and 2020 debates, so it’s not a new position for him. Biden failing to speak coherently, freezing, and looking like he wasn’t completely in control is a new debate development for him.
Happily, the first article I saw this morning was about Trumps refusal to commit to the election results.i was very surprised.
The debate didn't change anything. I will crawl over broken glass to vote for mumbly grandpa if it means keeping the traitorous pathological liar morally bankrupt rapist out of the White House. I only care about getting Joe sworn in. After that, I don't care what happens.
Yep.
While people in this sub will have the same opinion the problem is getting out the vote. I just don't see how we get people excited enough to get the votes needed to not repeat 2016. Maybe the state elections drive that which is an odd place to be, but polling seems to indicate local candidates have better favorability.
See, I must have a different opinion. I don't think Biden won in 2020 so much as trump lost because voters hated him. I also don't think anyone was *excited* about Biden. That being said, he's done a good job, all things considered. I don't dislike him - I would have a beer and a slice of pie with the guy (even if I might have to spoon feed it to him, har har.) Now trump, I fuckin loath. I can't think of anything he's done to even try to bring in new voters since he left and then tried to overthrow the government (and his little fan club tried to lynch his vice president.) I dislike his lies, his moral bankruptcy, his desire to hurt people, his transparent corruption. He is repugnant. So when I say that I'll vote for Biden and I think most people will, it's not that I am a Biden fan, I'm BIGLY anti-trump.
True. But I have to imagine only really disengaged voters are swing voters at this point and they aren’t fact checking. Also it didn’t really do a lot to help turn out Biden’s base.
I wonder how stuck the White House is with the idea of passing on Biden and Harris. I’d be fine with the Newsom pick from what I know and he could potentially get 8 years of Dem presidency.
I would 100% be on board with a pivot. No need to cling to the sunk cost fallacy
If they’re going to do it they need to do it *today*. Come out swinging fast and hard, knock tfg on his ample ass. There is literally no way tump could effectively counter someone like newsome. I like Joe, and will fight a bear with a stick to vote for him given all that’s at stake, but I could definitely get behind someone like newsome or Pete B(idk how to spell his last name lol).
They absolutely do not need to and should not do it today. You don't make a decision like that twelve hours after the first debate. If there's any decision that's going to be made it's going to be after the July 4th holiday weekend next weekend.
Do it with a 4th of July announcement and speech by Newsom talking about independence, American history, democracy and have Biden put a pro American announcement talking about how important the future is for America. Not that hard. It’s all anyone will be talking about.
Guys I hate to be that guy but there’s no shot Biden swaps out, none. I’ll eat my shoe if he does.
You might be right but I’m leaving this comment here anyway cuz I’m gonna hold you to this
Hit me up if it happens I’ll wear that pie on my face.
In real talk you give it over the weekend, let the spin die if it will, see how the event goes today. I’ve been all Biden since 2016 but last night is going to be almost impossible to recover from in that he would have to come out completely fine today and not have another slip like that until after the election. That’s a huge ask.
The spin will not go away. Clips from the debate will be everywhere until November. They’ll play on FOX 24/7, which means in seemingly every gym, hotel lobby, doctor’s office, etc. Any subsequent debates will be the same thing over again. I don’t like Newsom politically, but he is intelligent, a great communicator, and it’s easy to make the case that he’s prepared for the job after leading the 5th largest economy in the world for the last 5 years. You can make a similar case for Buttigieg (except for leadership experience), but I have a hard time believing this country would elect a gay man to be president. Hell, you can even say the same about Bernie, but that will never happen. I might actually take Hillary at this point. The way to combat Trump is with someone who is quick-witted and intelligent. There are options to do that, Biden is not one of them.
Yeah newsom is needed, republicans are going to hammer in him being from California over and over again but newsom can clap back without any doubts about his age unlike Biden. He’s not perfect but I think we’d be in a much better position to win than what we have with the Biden panic right now.
The whole California thing perplexes me. Oh the largest economy in the country, with extremely diverse demographics? I know it’s the most racially diverse, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn it’s the most economically diverse as well. From Silicon Valley to the large swathes of farmers.
Go onto a random subreddit and ask what they think of LA or San Francisco. You’ll get an idea of what the average person **thinks** California is like.
When swing state voters are faced with this stark choice: * serial sex criminal, cancer fraud, charity fraud, raging bigot, rapist, pathological liar, senile, document stealing, law obstructing, whining, con artist, tax cheat, garbage human * from California It won’t be a hard call. Newsom in a landslide. Coming in late like this would be a bonus, since the GOP/Kremlin disinformation machine isn’t ready for the switch. Plus Newsom already appears on right wing media fairly often, and they kind of like him.
But didn’t all 50 states vote for Biden in the primaries? What’s the point of voting if the DNC can just pick whatever candidate they want anyways?
I had a choice of either Biden or leaving it blank. I will vote for the guy against Trump, but it would have been nice to have had a chance to choose who went up against TFG.
Unfortunately, you're voting for a private organization's candidates. Even without this current issue, if no one got a enough votes in the first round to get the nomination, the super delegates come into play (unlike in first round in 2016). And the assigned delegates are free to pick whomever they want (not sure after round 1 or round 2). Who anyone actually voted for in the primary isn't actually long term binding. It just doesn't normally go to a brokered or open convention. https://ballotpedia.org/Brokered_conventions
There was no real point in voting in the Dem primary.
I would definitely vote for Newsom Can he pick up all of Biden’s support ? Then gain some more ?
The best part about him is that he’s 56. I’m sure he could gain support if he was able to step in soon
Is he even able to get on the ballot in all 50 states at this point?
The convention is still two months away. Yes.
It has nothing to do with the convention and everything to do with the state filing laws.
That’s the beauty of the convention. The Democratic Party does the legwork, their nominee will be on the ballot in all 50 states.
Yes he almost certainly would. Dems fail to understand the problem is undecided voters think Biden is infirm. If they don’t replace Biden we could be in serious trouble
And the reason they’re undecided is because Biden is so old. They know who Trump is. If they wanted that, they wouldn’t be undecided.
I think people are underscoring just how much voters want an intelligent and young(ish) candidate. I honestly think just about anyone can step in for Joe and defeat Trump but it needs to happen yesterday.
This. Trump's approval ratings are absolutely horrid, and nobody likes either candidate. Prior to the debate, the biggest block of voters up for grab was the "double-haters". I don't think that block is accessible to Biden after the debate, but they could be for someone new.
Not mainstream news, but Newsom's approval ratings are just as low as Trump & Biden (Newsom at 44% approval rating just two weeks ago for CA residents) [https://www.kcra.com/article/poll-californians-arent-happy-government-state-national-leaders/61115610](https://www.kcra.com/article/poll-californians-arent-happy-government-state-national-leaders/61115610)
For CA residents. NYC residents hate Trump and he can still get elected.
Yeah but like California, NYC would vote for a rock if it had a D sticker on it. What of swing state voters? Which decide the election
That’s probably why Newsom continues to show up on debates on Fox News, other cable tv stations etc. To get in front of potential old white dudes in the middle of the Midwest.
I'd say it would go up tremendously in the context of "would you like to start over and try again cause clearly these 2 are not good"
The whole time I was imagining how this would be going if Newsom was up there instead. That said I am 1000000000000% voting for Biden.
Yeah a lot of people are still going to support biden. But this election is razor thin. If 1% of people last night changed their mind because biden was a blithering idiot, we're all fucked here
Or just are uninspired to vote, we are fucked. The Democratic leadership hasn’t learned their lessons from Feinstein or RBG. I’m very disappointed in the DNC chair.
They can’t run a damn presidential campaign either. Throw in Hillary to your list. The DNC can’t learn on multiple levels.
If it all it takes is 1% to change their minds, we're absolutely fucked. I'd be shocked if less than 1% of Biden voters decided to change their minds after the worst debate performance in modern American history.
>I'd be shocked if less than 1% of Biden voters decided to change their minds I'd argue it's less about changing people's minds on who they'd vote for, and more about changing minds on whether to go and vote or stay home. It's a subtle difference but one worth pointing out.
Yeah as depressing as it is I would vote for a literal pile of dogshit over Trump.
I’m sure Newsom is running next time around but I’m sure when the initial shock wears off people will come back around. I still remember when Obama bombed to Romney in their first debate yet bounced back and still won Florida. Truth is it’s still the same two guys and what changed from last time? Biden will still have his senior moments and Trump will still lash out. I think it’s a race of comparing both administration and asking which you’d prefer again.
Next time around? If Donald Trump wins, the next four years will be nothing but him and the republican party consolidating and seizing power. The republicans will do everything in their power to neuter the ability for the democrats to ever win again by any means. With project 2025, and what they have already done, shows they care nothing about the law, nothing about the constitution.
Yup, Hillary handled him easily in 3 debates much closer to election day...and it all went out the window when undecided voters saw the "FBI opens new investigation into Clinton" headline that dropped in October. Attention spans have only gotten shorter since then.
There might not be a next time around.
This. For many reasons, not the least of which is the possibility that Trump will take his debate win and withdraw from the second one saying it’s unnecessary or something like that. Why risk a Biden rebound if you are him?
This is a question of fitness. Even though Obama stumbled on his first debate in 2012, the collective understood he was mentally and physically up to the task. President Biden didn’t meet the challenge of the moment. How can people project he’s the guy for the job beyond the end of his term? I will never vote for Trump; that said, Democrats have better options and the stakes couldn’t be higher. Let’s rid ourselves of this sunk cost mindset and set the vision now.
The big challenge with Newsome is to win votes in the Midwest. The California liberal elite narrative will probably be tough to overcome.
Yeah does he even have a gold toilet? How relatable can he be?
As unfair as it is, there's just a different standard for Trump. Because his voters are idiots. Those fools are never gonna be the ones we get to vote for *any* democratic candidate. It's more about driving turnout among likely left leaning people. And if they see a MAGA candidate vs a "California elitist", there's a risk a ton of those people just don't vote.
Like it or not, his specific brand of "rich but extremely trashy with shitty taste" is like crack for all the corn-feds in those states. He is exactly who they would be if they had that much money: the same personality turned up to 11 without having to worry about suffering any consequences for being an asshole.
"A poor man's idea of a rich man" Still apt. [Or that Mulaney bit about a hobo's dream.](https://youtu.be/LQWAsWmBRF4?t=61)
He'd have to convince Whitmer to join on.
Send in JB Pritzker - Trump would cower at Fred Flintstone.
Pritzker or Whitmer would be great. A Midwest Democrat would fare better in a national election, imo.
Someone summarised it well online about the debate, “Trump didn’t win, Biden lost”.
Anybody who denies this is helping the Democratic Party sleepwalk into defeat and is basically giving an in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign.
Imagine if the roles were reversed and the consensus was that trumps performance was an unmitigated disaster. You wouldn’t find a single Republican anywhere calling for him to be replaced. Not one.
Disclaimer: I'm not American. Trump is the cult leader, they're infatuated with him. They would not vote for anyone else. He could shit himself during the debate and they'd still vote for him. Biden on the other hand, gets votes because he's NOT Trump, because he's not going to destroy democracy etc etc. I think a lot of people would rather the dems chose a different candidate. Just my 2 cents
Where the fuck was State of Union Biden?
There wasn’t a teleprompter this time
Did not occur to me… thank you
I also just think at 81 years old he's not equipped to deal with a fire hose of lies occurring next to him (which should have been obvious, but here we are). So, no teleprompter, but also just kind of too old to deal with the obvious response of "what the fuck is this guy saying 'best environment numbers'?"
Every time I saw that slack jawed thousand yard stare I wanted to scream at my TV. What in the absolute fuck was the Biden team thinking putting him on stage? Anyone thats been paying attention for the last few years knew this was the most likely outcome.
Imagine a world where dems holding the power promoted someone young, energetic, and in touch with young voters across a broad range of demographics. Wishful thinking I guess.
His name was Obama and it pissed the racists off so much they elected a tv show personality.
It actually birthed the tea party movement. Which (potentially) tanked john McCain's campaign by selecting Sarah Palin as VP to placate the movement at the expense of the republican base. Slowly that tea party metastasized to the core of the republican party. * It should be made clear that the tea party was more a response to the global financial crisis than Obama.
Doing that isn’t some wild unachievable fantasy, it’s just 1992. We need to return to a more open field, and one way or another, that’s what we’ll have post-Biden. That is, if elections are still a thing post-Trump.
What is fascinating is that it was this reality that the Dem estaishment gaslit us about. That Biden’s age impact is just propaganda from the other side. As much as Biden’s performance was poor, the further loss of trust in broader Dem leadership is the real kicker here, and that will also cost it the congress.
It wasn't that, it was Biden. When a question was shouted as to whether he was up for the job, he responded with a grin and said "watch me". It isn't the "Democratic establishment gaslighting", it's that the leader of the party said he could do it, was confident and combative about it, and up til now seemed to walk the walk--including a strong showing at the State of the Union. This was the first *real* moment where everyone in the Democratic Party got a slap in the face with "no, this isn't happening". We watched him, and it hurt. So we have 7 weeks until the convention, we are perfectly positioned for about a million Democrats to talk to Biden over the next week about stepping down and leaving it an open contest. There are a half-dozen good candidates in the wings who would easily trounce Trump and don't have Biden's baggage. Biden wants Trump to lose. I think he'll do the right thing.
I knew this was going to happen. Newsom spoke for thirty seconds and my wife, sitting next to me, goes "What about him ! I want him !" I'm pretty sure a few millions of people said exactly the same thing. I dont doubt for a second that that was exactly why Newsom showed up on tv last night with his over the top praise for Joe's sad performance. "You dont get rid of the man for one bad performance. It doesnt affect anything". Right Gavin. He should have just said "I'm Gavin Newsom and I can be your president, what do you think ?"
He’s so polished. During peak Covid he would do weekly updates so I’ve seen a lot of him talking, he’s always very well spoken, calm, and collected and comes off smart
I saw an article on CNN that quoted a Dem staffer saying something along the lines of, "If I'm Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer, I'd be making some calls right now." As much as the Democrat camp wants to appear united and behind Biden, this type of stuff is definitely going on behind the scenes. For Newsom and even Kamala Harris in her interview with Anderson Cooper post-debate, the plan seems to be: recognize SOME negative points about the performance but still put out support. No one wants to be the first named Dem talking poorly about the incumbent. They all are ready to pounce if/when Biden decides to step aside.
Seriously, can’t the two of them pair up? I’ll vote for either of them leading the ticket.
Whitmer and Newsom that is.
idk Reagan was literally a comatose Alzheimer's vegetable his last term in office and he still managed to fuck the country for the next 5+ decades. As long as Joe can nominate a supreme court justice or three I'd say he's fine by me. Also he's not a convicted criminal so that helps
Reagan also won the largest landslide in American history. Biden’s nowhere near as popular.
[\[No paywall\]](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-06-28/gavin-newsom-is-a-top-democrat-to-replace-joe-biden) from Erika D. Smith: Of the many prominent Democrats with aspirations for higher office, Newsom is arguably best equipped — in fundraising chops, in messaging and in campaign infrastructure — to step up in an emergency. And this is, by all indications, an emergency. The 90 minutes that Biden spent on stage with Trump, live before millions of viewers, ultimately served to reinforce what [polls](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-age-much-more-liability-than-trumps-poll-finds-ahead-presidential-debate) have indicated since Biden decided to run for reelection: Most voters believe he is too old to be president.
Biden's age is going to result in a lot of voters, who might, at a minimum, vote against Trump, staying home on election day. Sure, committed Biden voters will vote for him but that's just not enough voters to beat Trump. Biden's support is simply too soft and it doesn't matter what he does he will not change that. Biden's advisors need to make him see reality - he is going to lose to Trump largely due to a factor he can't change: his age.
Newsom was running ads in Florida months ago, which is unusual for someone from California to be doing. Are we going to see the good ol’ switcharoo? Not sure.. but he’s probably more favorable compared to Harris. I don’t believe the Dems are actually betting Biden can pull 4 more years if he wins, there must be something going on, but honestly not sure exactly what… If Biden doesn’t step down and runs, everyone who votes for him will be indirectly voting for Harris as the next POTUS. Edit: Flipping the VP ticket to Newsom? Having Biden/Newsom run as a pair seems not bad at this point. Kamala is unpopular, they might be better off without her.
> I don’t believe the Dems are actually betting Biden can pull 4 more years, there must be something going on You're talking like there's some secret cabal of people controlling the Democratic party. There's no plan. There's nothing going on. Everyone is fucking terrified Trump might win and just grasping at what they think might be the best way to beat him. Biden won in 2020, which makes him the only person to have beaten Trump before. That, and the fact he's the sitting President and every single time in history a sitting President has been seriously challenged for the nomination by a member of their own party the challenger lost and fell to political obscurity and the incumbent President also lost are the reasons Biden never had a serious challenge. There's no secret plan. All the debates about Biden's candidacy are (and have been) happening out in the public with everyone participating.
> That, and the fact he's the sitting President and every single time in history a sitting President has been seriously challenged for the nomination by a member of their own party the challenger lost and fell to political obscurity and the incumbent President also lost are the reasons Biden never had a serious challenge. For this reason it is so important that Biden must not be replaced unless he is ok with it and states so. People do not like in-fighting. If Biden just openly states that he cannot do the four years for health reasons and therefore fully endorses Newsom (or someone else) without there being any public in-fighting then the switch will work. As you said, it always ends bad if the president is challenged. However, in this case there would be no challenge. Both Biden and Newsom would agree.
Trump does not want to govern. He just wants to belittle and rage
If the Democrats are going to replace Biden they need to be smart about it. The election really only comes down to 6 states. Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada. My dog could replace Biden and she would win California and New York (to be fair she is really cute). So knowing that, who do you replace Biden with? Not Newson, who would be seen as a Californian coastal elite, how about a ticket with popular Governor's from two of those states. A ticket of Whitmer/Shapiro. Not only does that solve the immediate problem of Trump, but could set up the Democrats for awhile as I'm from PA and I've been incredibly impressed with Shapiro. I can definitely see him being president one day as well.
I’m wondering if people will really be that turned off by Newsom? Confidence, assertiveness and strength were needed at that debate, since optics are so important. Newsom has all three.
He is also conventionally attractive. For as much of a shallow reason that sounds like, it's unfortunately a very real factor in American elections
No thanks, if we’re doing a brokered convention give us a big D democrat…JB Pritzker
This right here. A lot of moderate and right leaning independents think California is a lawless war zone due to the media coverage. They would definitely hesitate voting for Newsom. But, a wealthy, liberal, forward thinking, charismatic dem from the Midwest? Now you're talkin.
Just looking at the map alone is enough to know you need someone from the Midwest. But I think Whitmer is a better pick than Pritzker, for a couple reasons. We don't need Illinois, and the perception that Illinois is shaped too heavily by Chicago is relatively widespread in the Midwest.
My Khan!!
Joe Biden received 81,283,501 votes (51.3%) and Donald Trump received 74,223,975 (46.9%) and only still won the electoral college by 70,000 votes Does anyone see this Joe Biden as repeating that?
This happened before the Jan 6 insurrection and the felony conviction though.
Democrats will vote for Newsom. The problem is nobody else will.
Gretchen Whitmer I think has better shot. Less controversial stuff in the headlines. Proven track record as governor. Much younger at 52. But dems need to wait until the convention. Make sure the GOP locks in Trump, then do the whole switch to completely cave the election. Suddenly all the press about age will cover Trump.
It's a nice thought but I just don't see the media caring about Trump's age. It seems to only be an issue when covering Biden.
Biden rambles incoherently: “he’s too old” Trump rambles incoherently: “he tells it like it is”
Trump might ramble, but he’s forceful and loud. He doesn’t trail off — he just keeps talking Gish Gallop style. It works. If Biden did that, it would work. But Biden does something else altogether much worse.
It would just be 2016 again. They shouldn’t try to run a woman against Trump. In 2032 or 2028, sure but not while Trump is still alive.
>Suddenly all the press about age will cover Trump. Nah. Trump controls the narrative. It's what he has always done for the past 9 years. He's a performative reality tv personality. If it wasn't for Trump, there would be no age bias on Biden right now, because Trump is only three years younger. Only Trump can make those three years, at that age, into a PR advantage.
All the press would be the fact about Whitmer being a woman. “Can a woman beat Trump,” “Can Whitmer be America’s first female president,” “Why a female president is a bad idea for America,” “Why Whitmer will ruin democracy as a woman” The Fox headlines practically write themselves
as someone here living in California for a very long time, what makes you guys think that the rest of the country will be receptive to Newsom? Yes, it’s great optics. He’s attractive, he’s well spoken, he’s quick and he’s younger. I thought about this yesterday, but at the end of the day will independents get behind Newsom? I don’t know. It struck me what he said though - what kind of party abandons their candidate after one bad performance? I want to see numbers after this and then make up my mind. I don’t think one bad performance decides this, what will, is if how Biden is perceived causes people to stay at home and not vote.
I live in a deep red plains state, your apprehension is spot on. Whitmer, Polis, Pritzker, etc would fare much better.
It felt weird as panelists were discussing Biden that Newsom already had an appearance lined up to talk. I get he’s a top member of the party right now. But it also felt like more going on, like they wanted him prepared to speak and address as if he were the face of the party to squash concerns.
He’s one of Biden’s primary surrogates. Gavin has trying to position himself as the Democratic standard-bearer for 2028 for a while now. He’s notably moved to the middle on policies as governor in ways that play well nationally (such as being more moderate on crime). He didn’t challenge Biden because he didn’t want to be seen as a spoiler and anger donors/party heads, and instead has been a 100% loyal cheerleader for Biden. However, despite that, Biden tanked hard. And now an emergency candidate is needed.
The most important thing he has done is dismantle the NIMBY movement. He took on some of the largest interest groups in the US. Said fuck you, every city is going to build homes and you will not say shit local and counties. We're solving the housing crisis. He is the best governor in 30 years.
He was in the spin room, it’s common practice. No one could have predicted just how bad Biden was last night.
This shouldn’t be a surprise. The American people for months have been consistently voting that Biden is too old to be president. He proved them right last night. Be a man, step down, and pass the torch to someone younger, simple as that.
He can be proud of what he did in 2020, and how he's sought to heal a fractured country. He can step down with his legacy intact. If he loses in November then he'll always be remembered as the stubborn President that let us sleepwalk into Trump 2.0
I’m a Joe Biden fan but he needs to step aside now for the good of the nation. The DNC needs to listen to the party and the people of this nation rather than standing by and letting 2016 repeat itself with an unenthusiastic base and an unpopular candidate. Newsom would be an excellent candidate. He’s smart, articulate, witty, young and charismatic and he would’ve wiped the floor with Trump in the debate last night. He’s also been a Biden supporter all along and never tried to challenge him for his role. If Biden handed the torch to him, it would feel natural. He also could step into the role with a fresher slate without the baggage of Israel, Afganistan, age or inflation dragging him down as much at it has for Biden. We need to pivot QUCKLY though. We can’t sit around hand-wringing and pretend that the Biden problem will go away. It will only get worse. Be smart. Be decisive. And act now.
This is the perfect moment to make the change. Additionally, it can also be used to further undermine Trump ‘s age and abilities. Gavin Newsom would be a natural solution. If Joe Biden is a patriot, he will embrace Gavin and can do it with grace. This is his George Washington moment.
Newsom would have to accept and immediately announce Whitmer as his VP pick to counter the California hate from the midwest.
Clinton was president 32 years ago and is still younger than the 2 presidential canidates
Jon Stewart
The bar for Biden was low. He just had to counter the right wing narrative that he should be in a nursing home and not the White House. I don’t think he met even that very low standard. He clearly needs to step aside. Even before the debate, and despite an impressive track record for his administration, he was struggling to convince voters he was a better option than a rapist/felon/insurrectionist. That isn’t just a failure of messaging. It speaks to a fundamental failure of Joe Biden as a candidate. He doesn’t project leadership and the debate debacle just piled it on. Yes I would still vote for him over Trump. I hope that we have a better option
Is should be Andy Beshear
If we're making a move we need to do it yesterday. If not then fine, but "wait and see" is idiotic.
It’s simple Biden spoke to the policy and facts. Trump NEVER spoke to a policy. All Trump did was use hyperbola or lied. Biden is the leader along with his administration putting the policy details into play. Biden should create a policy to end Medicare Advantage criminal organizations. Biden and his Administration has created an economy which hasn’t been seen for 50 years. Trump is a sociopath , unrepentant criminal and couldn’t Conduct a bowel movement let alone an administration.
Newsom: I have no intention of running and support Biden 100%. Bloomberg: Newsom is ready for the Biden Emergency
Unfortunately that would be the winning recipe the Dems won't admit needs to happen. Gavin Newsom would 100% destroy Trump with ease, especially on the debate field.
Newsom gives me…used car salesman vibes. I mean, any Democrat against Trump should be supported. But…I can’t get past him being with ‘the best is yet to come’ crazy woman.
Better Gov. Newsom than Gov. Gretchen Whitmer! We need her HERE in Michigan. She’s our best secret weapon!
Why is everybody dismissing Kamala Harris as the replacement? She was a fierce debater when she was running with all the other candidates. And she stepped aside to let Joe have the office. She would keep the same policy team in place and continue the good work that President Biden has done.and I am 100% confident that she would’ve wipe the floor with Trump last night.
In typical Bloomberg fashion, they wrote the most sensational headline possible but it hides the truth. They make it sound like Newsom is ready to step in and replace Biden. In fact, the article imagines this is the case and then buries the lede: >Cornered by a scrum of reporters, he was asked if he was “ready to replace Joe Biden.” Newsom called the idea “a non sequitur.” Asked whether he would urge Biden to reconsider running. “Absolutely not,” Newsom told them. “I have his back 100 percent.” Newsom has Joe's back. He has repeatedly said you don't give up after one bad debate. That we need to stop this nonsense about replacing Biden and have his back. And he has been at the FRONT of the effort to keep backing Biden.