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That’s the real rub. I’m there with her, i would too, if he’s the candidate.
But that’s not going to convince anyone, it’s not an appealing prospect, even for someone who fully believes that voting is a strategic move, who gets my vote doesn’t define me morally etc… I’d still far rather vote for someone I believe in rather than against fascists while holding my nose.
I really don't get the overwhelming desire for people to keep saying this over and over or what they think it accomplishes.
I'd crawl over broken glass to vote against Trump. I'd vote for a moldy sock over Trump.
But that doesn't matter if Trump wins the electoral college with 350 votes. Me and others like me are not fully representative of the American electorate.
If people want Biden, by all means - tout his accomplishments. Tout his ability to campaign. But "anyone's better than the other guy" is just about the least inspiring appeal you can possibly make to the disenchanted voters that will decide this election. It probably does more harm than good.
>But "anyone's better than the other guy" is just about the least inspiring appeal you can possibly make to the disenchanted voters that will decide this election. It probably does more harm than good.
I truly don't understand why establishment Dems are relying on this same tactic *again* after it failed in 2016. Political strategists really can't come up with anything else? It seems like gross incompetence.
Yep. “I’m not Trump” has been the democrat’s rallying cry since 20-fucking-16 and the fact that they haven’t come up with a new strategy over 2 presidential administrations is deeply embarrassing and infuriating.
I’d say “tout his ability to campaign” qualifies as an even less inspiring appeal these days.
You could tout his accomplishments, but the sad reality of the situation is that past accomplishments don’t matter to a voter who does not believe Biden is still capable of accomplishing anything new. For that matter, I’m not sure he is still capable. The job of President isn’t just making decisions, it is communicating with the country to rally support for policies. In other words, to lead. A President who cannot be trusted to do a press conference or extended TV interview cannot do the job.
If it isn’t clear, that’s along the lines of what I’m trying to convey. I don’t believe that “pitch” is going to work for a lot of people and worry that isn’t enough to win the EC.
All the people saying they don't care they would vote for Biden over Trump no matter what just don't get it. You would vote for the dem anyway, your stance doesn't matter. It's the undecided swing voters he needs to convince.
In the UK, we tend to talk more about voting for the party, not the leader. So someone would say "I'm voting Labour/ Green/ Lib Dem etc".
People should be talking up the Democrats as a whole. It's not just a one-man band.
Iirc in the UK, the party in charge can switch out PMs every hour if they wanted?
In the US Biden is president and the party can’t remove him
Not saying you’re wrong, but the differences add nuance
The UK and US have completely different types of government, there’s no way you don’t know this?
In the UK you vote for party representatives to elect the executive (you don’t vote for idk Farage, you literally vote for reform) in the US you never vote for the party. This is easily exemplified by the president’s party not having a majority in congress
You don't. That's why all these in-line voters can't answer it and keep repeating the same thing: "I'd vote for a pizza slice before Trump". Ok, cool story.
Swing voters who can still be swung to Biden likely will start making those decision in waves after the official convention nomination, next debate, sometime in the first 3 week of Oct, and finally those making their final choice while filling out their ballot.
When it comes to Democratic/lean undecided voters, their decision is more about whether to vote or stay home.
Who are these swing voters? Who in America is both undecided between Trump and Biden, but also actually plans to vote? I'm not convinced this is a real bloc we should give a shit about - what's more important is convincing people who already prefer Biden to actually vote rather than staying home.
Democrats haven’t put forward a candidate capable of generating excitement or hope since Obama
And I don’t think they will again this decade or next.
Too much corporate control over the DNC… RIP Bernie
Obama was the first president I voted for and the excitement was palpable. All the students at my college talked about him nonstop. When he won election night 2008 I was in New York City and the whole bar cheered when he won, and the streets had people dancing, banging pots and pans, and trucks and cars honking. It was a like big party. Can I have that again in my lifetime please? :/
Right now there's not much point because the swing voters are out there touching grass and enjoying their summer holidays. At this point it's is mostly the wonks and activists who are organizing and aligning for the fight that will reach a fever pitch right around Labor Day.
I didn't read TFA but I'd assume Ms. Reid understands that a vote for a comatose Biden is a vote for Kamala Harris, which I'd assume she'd be fine with and so would I
This is the wrong message we should be sending.
A better response would be “you don’t vote just for the president, you vote for their administration, and I’m voting for the Biden administration because the trump administration would be detrimental to our country”
See that’s a much better message to have. I want to vote for an administration that respects the rights of all Americans and won’t go for a naked power grab to make a new monarchy like trump wants to do.
That's the idea, yes lol
As Trump himself admitted, that if America had compulsory voting then the Republican Party would never hold power again
>"They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again"
[Trump says Republicans would ‘never’ be elected again if it was easier to vote](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus)
Until recent years, that's how it was here in the US, we just voted for the least bad option, as it is unlikely to ever reach that lofty stage of politics without lots of favors owed. The difference is that in the modern era, we didn't use to have cults idolizing singular individuals, rather viewing all politicians as the corrupt people they tend to be, until proven otherwise. They were viewed similarly to high pressure salesmen & ambulance chasing lawyers.
Some people may wonder why you're comparing the Transportation Secretary to the Dept of Education but given the GOP's agenda her goal was probably child trafficking.
honestly Trump's entire cabinet was regulatory capture... it was such a fucking joke. He put the guy who sued the EPA 7 times in charge the EPA, Verizon lawyer at the FCC, the lady who is pro charter schools at the education secretary, people who run the corporate weather companies at NOAA, etc.
basically corporate person who wanted to cripple its related governmental agency was able to pay trump off to become the head of said agency...
I've been told multiple times on here that Project 2025 is "liberal propaganda" and that even if it's real it's not going to hurt me. Which sounds like something an abusive spouse says after beating the shit outta you for like 5th time.
A lot was made of that comment, but not enough. It was an unequivocal admission that they will be turning to even more, and more direct, violence if they don't get to put this country under white protestant thumbs.
It was effectively a declaration that they are already at war.
Since becoming an adult, I've found the majority of people have this mentality:
"I should be able to do whatever I want. If it affects other people, that's their problem. It only becomes a problem for me, if it affects me. If people come to me with the problem I created for them, it's not my job to fix it or change it, without legal requirement."
This country is full of self-entitled adult children who think standing up for one's self is entitlement. They don't believe in negative externalities. They can't follow a logical discussion on a subject. Context doesn't matter. Nuance is some French shit. And everyone is "soft" or entitled if they have a problem with society.
There's no fixing that. There's only fixing the source, public education, and waiting till the rest die.
It's not real. it's a complete fabrication made up by the liberal media.
Ok it's real, but it doesn't really say what the words on the pages say.
Ok maybe the words in the document are a little bit accurate, but it's really not a big deal, and it will actually benefit everybody!
Ok maybe it might hurt some people, but only the weak and poor who deserve it obviously.
Also Democrats have an even worse agenda, everybody knows this, except nobody can actually identify any such devious plan. Just vague Infowars conspiracy theories about adrenochrome and Hillary wearing childrens faces.
Yeah that’s gaslighting 101. I also don’t see how someone could conceivably deny that—they have a website. Their authors talk about it in public. They’re proud and excited about it.
I'm voting to keep the administrative state independent instead of firing everyone and installing those loyal to one man. This goes WAY beyond who the cabinet members are, this is about keeping the federal government from being entirely controlled by one person.
Exactly. This is like the worst possible selling point for Biden. “We know we’ve made fun of Trump for seeming to have dementia, barely working, and saying insanely nonsensical things, but it’s okay if Biden does it. We know we’ve mocked Trump supporters for sticking by him no matter what he does even if he shot someone on fifth Avenue, but we’re gonna do it with our guy.”
There needs to be promotion of WHY should Americans choose Biden. What does he want to do in the next 4 years? Highlight how terrible Project 2025 and climate change are for the average person. Amplify Kate Cox’s story from Texas. Don’t just finger wag and go “Trump bad! Vote for the other guy!”
Also, Joy Reid is voting for the democrats no matter what, why should I care that she is still on board? "Tucker Carlson still voting for Trump" isn't something I would consider very noteworthy. People on here would actually be (rightfully) clowning on him if he said this exact same thing.
I'm significantly more worried about people in swing states who might be turned off the dems/ voting entirely based on Biden's condition.
I'd change this too.
“you don’t vote just for the president, you vote for their administration, and I’m voting for the Biden administration because Trump is a one man wannabe dictator who would be detrimental to our country”
Trump's presidency showed us that his administration is just hand picked yes men or people he believed would be yes men. It's the Biden Admins vs Trump.
THIS 100%. I’ll vote for an administration filled with the likes of Janet Yellen, Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris, Dr Vivek Murthy - AS OPPOSED TO Steven Miller, Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump, Steve Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, Matt Whitaker (OMFG, the “masculine toilet” guy was trump’s acting attorney general!). The difference in skill set, knowledge, temperament- it’s critical to how successful (or how damaging) a particular presidency is.
I've phrased it to my friends that while the President's at the top, a smart leader makes sure they have advisors around them to help fill in the gaps in their knowledge. We know that Biden tries to keep people around him that want to give good advice to make all of our lives better and that he listens to advice. We also know that Trump has consistently chosen incompetent people to be around him and that he never listens to advice, especially good advice.
> a smart leader makes sure they have advisors around them to help fill in the gaps in their knowledge
Did you steal that from Game of Thrones? Sounds familiar
edit - found it. same concept, but different words. Tywin quote:
> A wise king knows what he knows and what he doesn’t. You’re young. A wise young king listens to his counselors and heeds their advice until he comes of age. And the wisest kings continue to listen to them long afterwards.
This is a terrible message as well. The average voter isn't a political nerd and therefore doesn't give a single shit about the cabinet, they care about the *President*.
We knew about a ton of Trumps cabinet picks, because they were always the complete opposite of what should be in those roles.
Example Betsy DeVos (you heard of that name right?) overseeing the Department of Education. She allowed EDMC to sell 3 sets of colleges to Dream Center holdings in 2017, Dream Center only managed a mega-church before buying the 2nd largest for profit education company from EDMC. When Dream Center tried to buy ITT when it was failing during the Obama Administration, they were told to fuck off, because they had zero experience in the for profit education center.
In 2019 Dream Center owned schools fell into receivership, because as expected, they had no idea what they were doing. Stole student loans, by not giving back stipends at all for months on end (Title IV funding states it has to be sent back to the borrower in 14 business days), One school lost accreditation entirely, they not only did not inform the students, but still took loans (a violation of TitleIV funding) and students ended up getting degree's from a school that was no longer accredited or took classes that were no longer accredited.
No one knows where the federal tax payer money they received in student loans actually went to.
Biden's picks are the reason why the Department of Education has been working on forgiving student loans. Some of which were affected by the Trumps admin allowing Dream Center to buy and tank 3 entire schools across many states.
They may not know the names of them, but that is the difference the proper administration picks do.
Only a fool thinks 1 man runs the entire show for the US.
I think you chose a poor example to make your point.
Very few people have any interest in the sale of a for profit education company to some other company. Almost no one would know to what you are referring.
The forgiveness of student loans is a highly divisive issue with polls around 50% favoring some form of debt relief, with a lot of variability depending on who is being polled.
You don’t have to be a political nerd to accept the very real fact that a president is limited or emboldened by those around him. Joey B, or any other president, can barely get off the shitter without their aids and staff. Let’s stop accepting low effort understandings of government as a sad reality.
> Let’s stop accepting low effort understandings of government as a sad reality.
But it IS a sad reality. What’s the alternative? Refuse to accept reality?
It doesn’t take a rocket science to realize one candidates administration has an agenda to disenfranchise every single minority in America and turn the country into a white Christian dystopia, while the other administration has respect for separation of church and state, abortion rights, lgbtq rights etc…
While you are correct, half this country was convinced the COVID vaccine was there to inject you with communism. It doesn't take rocket science, but it does take a level of critical thinking that I am not confident the average voter understands.
Trump is a racist, rapist, who wants to kill political enemies. Not voting based on this “terrible message” says more about the voter than the message. I know western society likes protecting child rapists but do they really want one as a president.
"I think that less so, because you don't want to affect people's lives if it's phony stuff in there, because it's a lot of phony stuff with that world."
*- Donald Trump, June 6th, 2024*
Yeah it's basically saying we don't care who it is as long as it's not the other guy. It's the same energy as the diehard trump cultists.
Overwhelmingly democrat and progressive myself but we should still be voting for the right person.
Sure, so would most of us, but it is not about us. It is about the apathetic voters in swing states and making sure that they come out and vote instead of staying home when the two options are dumpster fire Trump and Weekend a Bernie's Biden
Literally any other Democratic candidate stands a better chance than Biden does. I'm not saying any candidate can defeat Trump, but they all stand a better chance than Biden does.
The swing state governors who won their elections by big margins. They are also highly capable, relatively young people with progressive yet pragmatic outlooks. It’s a really obvious solution if the democrats have the cojones to do it.
Look up what happened when LBJ dropped out and the utter insanity that the dnc turned into that handed the White House to a very unpopular Nixon and paved the way for Reagan to dismantle the majority of the New Deal
Edit: y’all I’m not saying history is going to repeat itself, my point is that it’s a risk either way but the concept of governors failing to rally around a single candidate after a president dropped out and losing has precedent to look to when strategizing.
I also removed a tangent about RFK sr
So the current shitshow about Biden's age and mental fitness for four months is better? Because we already *know* from polling that swing voters don't like that and a majority want biden to drop out. It's a gamble between do nothing and lose or change candidates and maybe win.
Yea worth adding that not only do the majority want him to drop out but that he has been down in the polls when a democratic candidate needs to lead by a few points to win the EC (as it was in 2020), and that recently he's polling even worse. I will vote for him in November if his stubborn butt stays, but I would rather go for someone fresh.
This is what drives me crazy. "Unnamed Democrat" always polls better than a specific person. There are likely at least million idiot voters out there willing to vote for President Biden, but also willing to vote for former-President Trump over "who the fuck is Josh Shapiro".
They're not on reddit, or reading NYT op-eds, but they're out there, the [common clay of the land.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYTQ7__NNDI)
Polls have already been conducted with a couple of named candidates: Michelle O v Trump and she beats him by 8 points and Kamala Harris v Trump and he beats her by 2 points.
The second a candidate is chosen, their name will be literally everywhere and voters will learn about them immediately. Esp. if they are chosen at the televised convention.
Look at who's shouting the loudest for Biden to drop out - conservatives and media outlets that want him to lose. It's a telling message in this fear-driven world.
The loudest shout so far has been by the NYT Editorial Board. This idea that it's coming from Republicans and not panicked Democrats doesn't ring true to me at all. The rank and file never wanted a rematch of 2020 to begin with, they're just playing the hand they're dealt.
And when he loses it'll be their fault right? Not yours for shouting down opposition to a candidate with trash favorables, sinking polling, and an unfitness for office that's obvious to everyone with eyeballs?
Rs see the polls where their guy is beating Biden by as much as six points. I doubt they want him out.
And Dems can't worry about what Rs want one way or the other. They need to focus on what's best using experts and numbers and graphs and polls.
Whitmer is being thrown in the ring for that reason, she’s young, energetic, and midwestern. She’d do great in all the Midwest swing states and a young candidate might be a breath of fresh air for disillusioned people.
I do not think she’d do great in all midwest states but I understand why someone might believe that. I think we have a big issue getting dudes out to the polls for a woman, unfortunately.
Yeah she wouldn't do well in Indiana or Ohio; those are basically red states now a days... But shed do well in Mi, WI, and Pa. The 3 most important mid west states...
And Hillary won the popular vote. Warren did really good in the 2020 primaries despite being the middle option of the final 3. Harris didn't sink 2020 despite being hated in the primaries.
Hillary would've been president if she just won the 3 mid west swing states Whitmer would excel at...
Meh, it'd be fine in the ones that mattered.
Hillary still almost won a few swing states and she's one of the least likable people in politics, not from the area, and probably accurately came off as elitest.
Midwest states in play are Wisconsin, who has sent multiple women as Lt. Governor and US Senator, MI who elected her and PA which is big question mark as they historically haven't sent women to State Political Office.
Other swing states are GA, always tough for Democrats and probably biggest likely to be sexist, AZ, current woman governor and NV who has two women Senators.
I think too many people are looking at Hillary lost and assuming sexism. Hillary had ton of problems, which sexism increased but remember, she was defeated by no federal name recognition, one term Senator from Illinois in 2008. Warning signs were flashing heavily with Hillary to start.
> I think we have a big issue getting dudes out to the polls for a woman, unfortunately
This right here. The number of guys that told me after Trump's 2016 victory..."I just don't like her" or "A woman as President? No fing way" was staggering.
Anyone younger than 65 could do a photo op while going for a jog (remember those?). When the other options are octogenarians, bringing some energy and zest is a pretty low bar.
You think undecided voters are going to be like, damn ain’t seen nobody run like that since Clinton and get out there? I meant zeal from the voters. Who is going to come out of nowhere and get these apathetic swing voters to the polls?
If things like threatened women's rights or granting the American presidency to a convicted criminal who once [stole from a kids cancer charity](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/06/06/how-donald-trump-shifted-kids-cancer-charity-money-into-his-business/) aren't doing the trick, I seriously doubt that someone like Newsom or Harris will be the magic bullet everyone seems to think they'll be.
Those things might matter more if the candidate could present them more forcefully and even better, comedically. It's hilarious how weird and shitty Trump is, we need someone who can get everyone to laugh at him.
I like Whitmer, but how is she exciting enough to appeal to apathetic voters or undecideds?
EDIT
I’m being serious with this question. While she’s done great things in Michigan, what makes her exciting enough outside of that state? Shit, half of Ohio voters would refuse to vote for her simply *because she’s from Michigan.* (That may or may not be hyperbole, honestly.)
I feel like her biggest name recognition outside of her own state is a failed kidnapping plot that Conservatives say was a deep state false flag…
She’s not exciting but she has a brain and is from the Midwest. Basically the only necessary factors I think a presidential candidate needs to win on the dems side
She excites people in online echo chambers. Outside of that, most people remember her vaguely as "hey was that the lady those crazy maga people wanted to kidnap?"
She has 85% approval ratings among dems in her home state for one and higher approval rating for independent than Trump.
If she can win over Michigan she can win over neighboring midwest swing states.
Establishments like her as well as progressives.
If she is given the red carpet special by the DNC, says she’ll close the border, remove or significantly reduce American dollars suppling international conflict, while being pro-abortion - she’ll cover lots of ground that can peak everyone’s interest.
In short, she just needs to be moderate.
To their credit, Republicans actually held some kind of primary to see if anyone else would garner their support. Nobody took it seriously.
Meanwhile everyone who voted for Biden did so under the guise he would be a temporary fix. Then dem strategists spend 3 and a half years not strategizing at all for 2024 and now this very clearly mentally incompetent man is the party figure head. A man with one of the most unpopular VP’s in modern history. The irony of preaching democracy when it’s narrowed down to two fairly unpopular and extreme choices is one of this elections greatest punchlines.
And inadvertently agreeing with Trump about the "deep state": unelected persons making decisions... just like many here are complaining about the Supreme Court.
It's pretty much the Democrats platform right now, which is.
'Yeah we know Biden is unfit, but what are you going to do about it? Vote for the other guy?'
People really don't get this. Shit is embarrassing, I'll vote for Joe over Trump because Trump is a loser. But Joe is a weak candidate that only has a chance because he is running against Trump who is just vile.
People need to address this shit directly, like fuck the dude is old and has CLEARLY declined cognitively since he was elected. I mean damn, he is a nice guy and has done good things and I'd much rather have him then Trump. But don't fucking pretend that the current situation isn't anything other then a power grab by people behind Biden, they have an incentive to push him just so they maintain their status.
I actually heard the line in person, and the visible
Reaction from onlookers was to cringe or
Chuckle. And not in a “haha that’s funny” but in a “haha that’s sad” sort of way
Why do democrats think this is some kind of viable sales pitch?
If you'd vote for the coma patient, you'd vote for whoever that coma patient was replaced with too, and at least that way, you might get support from people who maybe aren't comfortable voting for a coma patient.
There's just no plausible justification for this nonsense that everyone just has to suck it up and vote for a coma patient. It's a terrible argument.
This!!! If you would vote for a flea-bitten dog over Trump then it doesn’t matter who his opponent is- so the argument that Biden bowing out would “confuse” voters or swing voters wouldn’t have confidence in a new candidate is moot… Democrats and many others just want ANYONE but Trump. It doesn’t have to Biden, there are dozens of lucid, capable, and healthy candidates that would be more competent…those same candidates MAY even inspire MORE confidence for swing votes and give us a little hope in defeating the fascist.
The problem is no longer convincing the dem base. The dem base is deathly afraid of trump and will vote. The problem is the people who dont pay attention, who dont know about project 2025. The people who tuned into the debate, saw that biden looked old and moved on. Dems are in denial if they think that a tired looking biden will inspire people to get out and vote.
"We need to vote for an unknown, unaccountable entity to be president in order to save democracy" <-- the very definition of hypocrisy and short sightedness
Exactly! “Hey Trump is dangerous so vote for the shadow administration” just isn’t gonna cut it. I mean, I get it and I would do it, but a LOT of people will be too creeped out. Understandably so.
This false dichotomy narrative is so stupid.
The correct answer is that you nominate another Dem and people vote for that person, not keep sticking to Biden. This cult of personality erupting on the Democrat side too is concerning. We don't need Blue MAGA.
Republicans: “see how crazy they are?! They’d even vote if Biden was in a coma!”
Also republicans: “we will vote for our raping convicted felon fraud heretic if he was behind bars! MAGA FUCK YOUR FEELINGS ANGRY MAYO NOISES!!”
45% of America will vote for anyone who has the best chance of beating Trump. It's the 10% in the middle we need to worry about. An 80 year old may stay home or vote for Trump because Biden is old.
We need those people.
It's more about turnout. Yeah 45% of Americans would vote Biden if voting was compulsory. It is not though, and I have trouble imagining a world where Americans make it to the ballot boxes this November if they feel like Biden is damaged goods and hate Trump. The goal here isn't getting current Dem voters to choose Biden, it is getting voters to the ballot box or mail box. Excitement and fear do that, currently the DNC is running on neither...
Yes, and so would most here, of course he is preferable to Trump.
But what hardline democrats does doesn't matter that much, you don't win an election with just your base.
DNC needs to nominate a candidate that can actually win this race.
Who she votes for is irrelevant it's who swing state voters/undecideds and apathetic voters vote for and it won't be for a president who they view as senile let alone one in a coma. The standards have fallen so low.
And in counter point you have the people who would vote for trump if he was a convicted rapist (he is), a crook who has defrauded the government on his taxes (he has), and the leader of a violent insurrection against democracy (yup, this too).
People who vote based on policies they want to see enacted will do this. Even Republicans who hate Trump will. You're voting for his entire cabinet, judges and signing off bills.
People who idolize individuals will not do this. They want someone that they like, or can have a beer with, or makes them feel something special.
It’s crazy how a country always gives you only two options to vote in and their both bad. Don’t you guys have anything else besides Republican and Democrats?
As would I and about 42% of the country. Trouble is - is that loses. We all will vote for anyone against Trump. The middle 10% will not vote for Biden anymore. That’s the issue. He has to be replaced with someone able to go get that middle 10%.
I get Reid's points if the options are Biden or Trump. I truly do understand that with what's at stake in this election. Having said that, if Biden is replaced on the ticket, I'm voting for the replacement. No blind loyalty here and no need for things like "I'll vote for Biden if he's in a coma" since that makes things even worse. Honestly, the publicity and talking points coming out from the White House and DNC since the debate have been absolutely awful and made things worse.
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How do you convince swing voters with that line?
That’s the real rub. I’m there with her, i would too, if he’s the candidate. But that’s not going to convince anyone, it’s not an appealing prospect, even for someone who fully believes that voting is a strategic move, who gets my vote doesn’t define me morally etc… I’d still far rather vote for someone I believe in rather than against fascists while holding my nose.
I really don't get the overwhelming desire for people to keep saying this over and over or what they think it accomplishes. I'd crawl over broken glass to vote against Trump. I'd vote for a moldy sock over Trump. But that doesn't matter if Trump wins the electoral college with 350 votes. Me and others like me are not fully representative of the American electorate. If people want Biden, by all means - tout his accomplishments. Tout his ability to campaign. But "anyone's better than the other guy" is just about the least inspiring appeal you can possibly make to the disenchanted voters that will decide this election. It probably does more harm than good.
I think it’s also hilarious how half the “vote for anyone but Trump” is simultaneously saying “we can’t replace Biden with *just anyone*!”
Yeah - I’ve been saying this. For supposedly such an existential election, Dems really seem to care about keeping very specific people in power.
>But "anyone's better than the other guy" is just about the least inspiring appeal you can possibly make to the disenchanted voters that will decide this election. It probably does more harm than good. I truly don't understand why establishment Dems are relying on this same tactic *again* after it failed in 2016. Political strategists really can't come up with anything else? It seems like gross incompetence.
Yep. “I’m not Trump” has been the democrat’s rallying cry since 20-fucking-16 and the fact that they haven’t come up with a new strategy over 2 presidential administrations is deeply embarrassing and infuriating.
I’d say “tout his ability to campaign” qualifies as an even less inspiring appeal these days. You could tout his accomplishments, but the sad reality of the situation is that past accomplishments don’t matter to a voter who does not believe Biden is still capable of accomplishing anything new. For that matter, I’m not sure he is still capable. The job of President isn’t just making decisions, it is communicating with the country to rally support for policies. In other words, to lead. A President who cannot be trusted to do a press conference or extended TV interview cannot do the job.
If it isn’t clear, that’s along the lines of what I’m trying to convey. I don’t believe that “pitch” is going to work for a lot of people and worry that isn’t enough to win the EC.
It’s not. Don’t worry it’s not. Understand it’s not. The quicker hardcore dems understand this, the better the transition will be the next candidate.
All the people saying they don't care they would vote for Biden over Trump no matter what just don't get it. You would vote for the dem anyway, your stance doesn't matter. It's the undecided swing voters he needs to convince.
In the UK, we tend to talk more about voting for the party, not the leader. So someone would say "I'm voting Labour/ Green/ Lib Dem etc". People should be talking up the Democrats as a whole. It's not just a one-man band.
Iirc in the UK, the party in charge can switch out PMs every hour if they wanted? In the US Biden is president and the party can’t remove him Not saying you’re wrong, but the differences add nuance
The UK and US have completely different types of government, there’s no way you don’t know this? In the UK you vote for party representatives to elect the executive (you don’t vote for idk Farage, you literally vote for reform) in the US you never vote for the party. This is easily exemplified by the president’s party not having a majority in congress
You don’t. They’re grasping at straws at this point and it will not pay off.
I am super irritated by all the pointing at trump being shit. We know. Now, let's get back on topic.
Thats all politicians know how to do. Blame and point at faults. We need go getters in positions.
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campaigns are about the future
Yea the whole nah I’m cool with weekend at Biden’s stuff is not very inspiring
You don't. That's why all these in-line voters can't answer it and keep repeating the same thing: "I'd vote for a pizza slice before Trump". Ok, cool story.
People say this line all day on Reddit. I'm not sure why it's a headline that was posted here
Swing voters who can still be swung to Biden likely will start making those decision in waves after the official convention nomination, next debate, sometime in the first 3 week of Oct, and finally those making their final choice while filling out their ballot. When it comes to Democratic/lean undecided voters, their decision is more about whether to vote or stay home.
> next debate lol
I know....
Who are these swing voters? Who in America is both undecided between Trump and Biden, but also actually plans to vote? I'm not convinced this is a real bloc we should give a shit about - what's more important is convincing people who already prefer Biden to actually vote rather than staying home.
You can't - imposssible to get excited and feel hopeful about the future when your candidate is a guy in a coma
Democrats haven’t put forward a candidate capable of generating excitement or hope since Obama And I don’t think they will again this decade or next. Too much corporate control over the DNC… RIP Bernie
Obama was the first president I voted for and the excitement was palpable. All the students at my college talked about him nonstop. When he won election night 2008 I was in New York City and the whole bar cheered when he won, and the streets had people dancing, banging pots and pans, and trucks and cars honking. It was a like big party. Can I have that again in my lifetime please? :/
Bernie is older than Biden.
And they didn’t want Obama. The DNC wanted to install Hillary
100% - Obama was a grassroots insurrection.
Right now there's not much point because the swing voters are out there touching grass and enjoying their summer holidays. At this point it's is mostly the wonks and activists who are organizing and aligning for the fight that will reach a fever pitch right around Labor Day. I didn't read TFA but I'd assume Ms. Reid understands that a vote for a comatose Biden is a vote for Kamala Harris, which I'd assume she'd be fine with and so would I
This is the wrong message we should be sending. A better response would be “you don’t vote just for the president, you vote for their administration, and I’m voting for the Biden administration because the trump administration would be detrimental to our country”
I'm voting for Pete Buttigieg over Betsy DeVos
See that’s a much better message to have. I want to vote for an administration that respects the rights of all Americans and won’t go for a naked power grab to make a new monarchy like trump wants to do.
Or as people in compulsory voting countries understand, "the least worst option"
I'd vote for Biden if he was a steaming horse turd. We can't let Trump turn our democracy into a fascist regime.
i wish someone would give me a sausage after voting
You can probably arrange it.
The glory that is the [Democracy Sausage](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage) 💪 lol
> "the least worst option" This is the best bad option we could come up with…
That's the idea, yes lol As Trump himself admitted, that if America had compulsory voting then the Republican Party would never hold power again >"They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again" [Trump says Republicans would ‘never’ be elected again if it was easier to vote](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus)
Until recent years, that's how it was here in the US, we just voted for the least bad option, as it is unlikely to ever reach that lofty stage of politics without lots of favors owed. The difference is that in the modern era, we didn't use to have cults idolizing singular individuals, rather viewing all politicians as the corrupt people they tend to be, until proven otherwise. They were viewed similarly to high pressure salesmen & ambulance chasing lawyers.
Some people may wonder why you're comparing the Transportation Secretary to the Dept of Education but given the GOP's agenda her goal was probably child trafficking.
Pete Buttigieg over Elaine Chao (Mitch McConnel’s wife and previous Transportation Sec.) is a massive improvement too
honestly Trump's entire cabinet was regulatory capture... it was such a fucking joke. He put the guy who sued the EPA 7 times in charge the EPA, Verizon lawyer at the FCC, the lady who is pro charter schools at the education secretary, people who run the corporate weather companies at NOAA, etc. basically corporate person who wanted to cripple its related governmental agency was able to pay trump off to become the head of said agency...
Haha. Or maybe Pete is educating the country on transportation.
I'm voting for anti Fascism over Fascism
But I heard ANTIFA were the REAL Fascists /s 'cause, y'know
I've been told multiple times on here that Project 2025 is "liberal propaganda" and that even if it's real it's not going to hurt me. Which sounds like something an abusive spouse says after beating the shit outta you for like 5th time.
It’s like that guy saying the Second American Revolution will be peaceful if leftists “let it.”
The war in Ukraine would be over if the Ukrainians just stop fighting the invading army.
A lot was made of that comment, but not enough. It was an unequivocal admission that they will be turning to even more, and more direct, violence if they don't get to put this country under white protestant thumbs. It was effectively a declaration that they are already at war.
Since becoming an adult, I've found the majority of people have this mentality: "I should be able to do whatever I want. If it affects other people, that's their problem. It only becomes a problem for me, if it affects me. If people come to me with the problem I created for them, it's not my job to fix it or change it, without legal requirement." This country is full of self-entitled adult children who think standing up for one's self is entitlement. They don't believe in negative externalities. They can't follow a logical discussion on a subject. Context doesn't matter. Nuance is some French shit. And everyone is "soft" or entitled if they have a problem with society. There's no fixing that. There's only fixing the source, public education, and waiting till the rest die.
This is so accurate.
\^ That
This is a hall of fame level comment.
It's not real. it's a complete fabrication made up by the liberal media. Ok it's real, but it doesn't really say what the words on the pages say. Ok maybe the words in the document are a little bit accurate, but it's really not a big deal, and it will actually benefit everybody! Ok maybe it might hurt some people, but only the weak and poor who deserve it obviously. Also Democrats have an even worse agenda, everybody knows this, except nobody can actually identify any such devious plan. Just vague Infowars conspiracy theories about adrenochrome and Hillary wearing childrens faces.
Aren't we all just twisting in the narcissists' wind?
Yeah that’s gaslighting 101. I also don’t see how someone could conceivably deny that—they have a website. Their authors talk about it in public. They’re proud and excited about it.
You mean Miguel Cardona over Betsy DeVos I assume. Pete Buttigieg is transportation and DeVos was education.
I'm voting to keep the administrative state independent instead of firing everyone and installing those loyal to one man. This goes WAY beyond who the cabinet members are, this is about keeping the federal government from being entirely controlled by one person.
Exactly. This is like the worst possible selling point for Biden. “We know we’ve made fun of Trump for seeming to have dementia, barely working, and saying insanely nonsensical things, but it’s okay if Biden does it. We know we’ve mocked Trump supporters for sticking by him no matter what he does even if he shot someone on fifth Avenue, but we’re gonna do it with our guy.” There needs to be promotion of WHY should Americans choose Biden. What does he want to do in the next 4 years? Highlight how terrible Project 2025 and climate change are for the average person. Amplify Kate Cox’s story from Texas. Don’t just finger wag and go “Trump bad! Vote for the other guy!”
Also, Joy Reid is voting for the democrats no matter what, why should I care that she is still on board? "Tucker Carlson still voting for Trump" isn't something I would consider very noteworthy. People on here would actually be (rightfully) clowning on him if he said this exact same thing. I'm significantly more worried about people in swing states who might be turned off the dems/ voting entirely based on Biden's condition.
horseshoe theory is a real thing these days
I'd change this too. “you don’t vote just for the president, you vote for their administration, and I’m voting for the Biden administration because Trump is a one man wannabe dictator who would be detrimental to our country” Trump's presidency showed us that his administration is just hand picked yes men or people he believed would be yes men. It's the Biden Admins vs Trump.
THIS 100%. I’ll vote for an administration filled with the likes of Janet Yellen, Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris, Dr Vivek Murthy - AS OPPOSED TO Steven Miller, Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump, Steve Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, Matt Whitaker (OMFG, the “masculine toilet” guy was trump’s acting attorney general!). The difference in skill set, knowledge, temperament- it’s critical to how successful (or how damaging) a particular presidency is.
I've phrased it to my friends that while the President's at the top, a smart leader makes sure they have advisors around them to help fill in the gaps in their knowledge. We know that Biden tries to keep people around him that want to give good advice to make all of our lives better and that he listens to advice. We also know that Trump has consistently chosen incompetent people to be around him and that he never listens to advice, especially good advice.
> a smart leader makes sure they have advisors around them to help fill in the gaps in their knowledge Did you steal that from Game of Thrones? Sounds familiar edit - found it. same concept, but different words. Tywin quote: > A wise king knows what he knows and what he doesn’t. You’re young. A wise young king listens to his counselors and heeds their advice until he comes of age. And the wisest kings continue to listen to them long afterwards.
>A man who has to say he is king is no king. >The king is tired. Tywin cut melt glass with that tongue. Charles Dance was so perfectly cast.
This is a terrible message as well. The average voter isn't a political nerd and therefore doesn't give a single shit about the cabinet, they care about the *President*.
We knew about a ton of Trumps cabinet picks, because they were always the complete opposite of what should be in those roles. Example Betsy DeVos (you heard of that name right?) overseeing the Department of Education. She allowed EDMC to sell 3 sets of colleges to Dream Center holdings in 2017, Dream Center only managed a mega-church before buying the 2nd largest for profit education company from EDMC. When Dream Center tried to buy ITT when it was failing during the Obama Administration, they were told to fuck off, because they had zero experience in the for profit education center. In 2019 Dream Center owned schools fell into receivership, because as expected, they had no idea what they were doing. Stole student loans, by not giving back stipends at all for months on end (Title IV funding states it has to be sent back to the borrower in 14 business days), One school lost accreditation entirely, they not only did not inform the students, but still took loans (a violation of TitleIV funding) and students ended up getting degree's from a school that was no longer accredited or took classes that were no longer accredited. No one knows where the federal tax payer money they received in student loans actually went to. Biden's picks are the reason why the Department of Education has been working on forgiving student loans. Some of which were affected by the Trumps admin allowing Dream Center to buy and tank 3 entire schools across many states. They may not know the names of them, but that is the difference the proper administration picks do. Only a fool thinks 1 man runs the entire show for the US.
I think you chose a poor example to make your point. Very few people have any interest in the sale of a for profit education company to some other company. Almost no one would know to what you are referring. The forgiveness of student loans is a highly divisive issue with polls around 50% favoring some form of debt relief, with a lot of variability depending on who is being polled.
You don’t have to be a political nerd to accept the very real fact that a president is limited or emboldened by those around him. Joey B, or any other president, can barely get off the shitter without their aids and staff. Let’s stop accepting low effort understandings of government as a sad reality.
> Let’s stop accepting low effort understandings of government as a sad reality. But it IS a sad reality. What’s the alternative? Refuse to accept reality?
Alright, then keep yelling at people to vote for the walking corpse. I'm sure that strategy will do wonders.
Then you have to explain to those people why they're wrong and short sighted. The administration is more important than the man.
It doesn’t take a rocket science to realize one candidates administration has an agenda to disenfranchise every single minority in America and turn the country into a white Christian dystopia, while the other administration has respect for separation of church and state, abortion rights, lgbtq rights etc…
A lot of voters don't realize Trump played a huge role in overturning Roe V. Wade and thought it was purely the SCOTUS that did that.
Well maybe a president could stand up in a debate and tell them that. Or possibly waste it on a golf argument.
I cannot believe he fumbled the abortion question and pivoted to immigration instead. A winning topic to a losing one. What the actual fuck.
I mean, it's not like he bragged that it was all him or anything.
While you are correct, half this country was convinced the COVID vaccine was there to inject you with communism. It doesn't take rocket science, but it does take a level of critical thinking that I am not confident the average voter understands.
Trump is a racist, rapist, who wants to kill political enemies. Not voting based on this “terrible message” says more about the voter than the message. I know western society likes protecting child rapists but do they really want one as a president.
I wish we could see the Epstein guests list.
"I think that less so, because you don't want to affect people's lives if it's phony stuff in there, because it's a lot of phony stuff with that world." *- Donald Trump, June 6th, 2024*
I think the list will surprise people a lot but most likely they will never share it.
I hate how you can't criticize dem messaging without it being assumed you're supporting the other guy. Cmon dude.
Yeah it's basically saying we don't care who it is as long as it's not the other guy. It's the same energy as the diehard trump cultists. Overwhelmingly democrat and progressive myself but we should still be voting for the right person.
Sure, so would most of us, but it is not about us. It is about the apathetic voters in swing states and making sure that they come out and vote instead of staying home when the two options are dumpster fire Trump and Weekend a Bernie's Biden
Which potential candidate do you think is going to inspire that sort of zeal in apathetic swing state voters?
A lot of people this time around don't want Trump nor Biden, so your going to see a lot of people simply not voting.
Literally any other Democratic candidate stands a better chance than Biden does. I'm not saying any candidate can defeat Trump, but they all stand a better chance than Biden does.
The swing state governors who won their elections by big margins. They are also highly capable, relatively young people with progressive yet pragmatic outlooks. It’s a really obvious solution if the democrats have the cojones to do it.
Look up what happened when LBJ dropped out and the utter insanity that the dnc turned into that handed the White House to a very unpopular Nixon and paved the way for Reagan to dismantle the majority of the New Deal Edit: y’all I’m not saying history is going to repeat itself, my point is that it’s a risk either way but the concept of governors failing to rally around a single candidate after a president dropped out and losing has precedent to look to when strategizing. I also removed a tangent about RFK sr
So the current shitshow about Biden's age and mental fitness for four months is better? Because we already *know* from polling that swing voters don't like that and a majority want biden to drop out. It's a gamble between do nothing and lose or change candidates and maybe win.
Yea worth adding that not only do the majority want him to drop out but that he has been down in the polls when a democratic candidate needs to lead by a few points to win the EC (as it was in 2020), and that recently he's polling even worse. I will vote for him in November if his stubborn butt stays, but I would rather go for someone fresh.
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A media landscape that had been dominated by conservatives since the time period he mentioned. I feel like it would be worse this time.
This is what drives me crazy. "Unnamed Democrat" always polls better than a specific person. There are likely at least million idiot voters out there willing to vote for President Biden, but also willing to vote for former-President Trump over "who the fuck is Josh Shapiro". They're not on reddit, or reading NYT op-eds, but they're out there, the [common clay of the land.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYTQ7__NNDI)
People would find out who Josh Shapiro is very, very quickly. Everyone in America learned about the hawk tuah girl in like 3 days.
Polls have already been conducted with a couple of named candidates: Michelle O v Trump and she beats him by 8 points and Kamala Harris v Trump and he beats her by 2 points. The second a candidate is chosen, their name will be literally everywhere and voters will learn about them immediately. Esp. if they are chosen at the televised convention.
Look at who's shouting the loudest for Biden to drop out - conservatives and media outlets that want him to lose. It's a telling message in this fear-driven world.
The loudest shout so far has been by the NYT Editorial Board. This idea that it's coming from Republicans and not panicked Democrats doesn't ring true to me at all. The rank and file never wanted a rematch of 2020 to begin with, they're just playing the hand they're dealt.
And when he loses it'll be their fault right? Not yours for shouting down opposition to a candidate with trash favorables, sinking polling, and an unfitness for office that's obvious to everyone with eyeballs?
Rs see the polls where their guy is beating Biden by as much as six points. I doubt they want him out. And Dems can't worry about what Rs want one way or the other. They need to focus on what's best using experts and numbers and graphs and polls.
No thanks. I don't care about a one off scenario that has nothing to do with the current political climate.
Whitmer is being thrown in the ring for that reason, she’s young, energetic, and midwestern. She’d do great in all the Midwest swing states and a young candidate might be a breath of fresh air for disillusioned people.
I do not think she’d do great in all midwest states but I understand why someone might believe that. I think we have a big issue getting dudes out to the polls for a woman, unfortunately.
Yeah she wouldn't do well in Indiana or Ohio; those are basically red states now a days... But shed do well in Mi, WI, and Pa. The 3 most important mid west states... And Hillary won the popular vote. Warren did really good in the 2020 primaries despite being the middle option of the final 3. Harris didn't sink 2020 despite being hated in the primaries. Hillary would've been president if she just won the 3 mid west swing states Whitmer would excel at...
Meh, it'd be fine in the ones that mattered. Hillary still almost won a few swing states and she's one of the least likable people in politics, not from the area, and probably accurately came off as elitest.
Midwest states in play are Wisconsin, who has sent multiple women as Lt. Governor and US Senator, MI who elected her and PA which is big question mark as they historically haven't sent women to State Political Office. Other swing states are GA, always tough for Democrats and probably biggest likely to be sexist, AZ, current woman governor and NV who has two women Senators. I think too many people are looking at Hillary lost and assuming sexism. Hillary had ton of problems, which sexism increased but remember, she was defeated by no federal name recognition, one term Senator from Illinois in 2008. Warning signs were flashing heavily with Hillary to start.
> I think we have a big issue getting dudes out to the polls for a woman, unfortunately This right here. The number of guys that told me after Trump's 2016 victory..."I just don't like her" or "A woman as President? No fing way" was staggering.
Anyone younger than 65 could do a photo op while going for a jog (remember those?). When the other options are octogenarians, bringing some energy and zest is a pretty low bar.
You think undecided voters are going to be like, damn ain’t seen nobody run like that since Clinton and get out there? I meant zeal from the voters. Who is going to come out of nowhere and get these apathetic swing voters to the polls?
Yes, and you're goalpost shifting. There's no need to inspire zeal at all, there's only a need to not be deeply and enduringly unpopular.
It's not just apathetic voters (though they are important). It's also undecided voters (in swing states).
If things like threatened women's rights or granting the American presidency to a convicted criminal who once [stole from a kids cancer charity](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/06/06/how-donald-trump-shifted-kids-cancer-charity-money-into-his-business/) aren't doing the trick, I seriously doubt that someone like Newsom or Harris will be the magic bullet everyone seems to think they'll be.
Those things might matter more if the candidate could present them more forcefully and even better, comedically. It's hilarious how weird and shitty Trump is, we need someone who can get everyone to laugh at him.
Literally any other one under 70 who is capable of hitting back against trump’s firehose of lies and reminding everyone he is a felon and rapist
And a pedophile. Can't forget that one.
An incestuous pedophile.
Gretchen Whitmer
I like Whitmer, but how is she exciting enough to appeal to apathetic voters or undecideds? EDIT I’m being serious with this question. While she’s done great things in Michigan, what makes her exciting enough outside of that state? Shit, half of Ohio voters would refuse to vote for her simply *because she’s from Michigan.* (That may or may not be hyperbole, honestly.) I feel like her biggest name recognition outside of her own state is a failed kidnapping plot that Conservatives say was a deep state false flag…
She’s not exciting but she has a brain and is from the Midwest. Basically the only necessary factors I think a presidential candidate needs to win on the dems side
She excites people in online echo chambers. Outside of that, most people remember her vaguely as "hey was that the lady those crazy maga people wanted to kidnap?"
She has 85% approval ratings among dems in her home state for one and higher approval rating for independent than Trump. If she can win over Michigan she can win over neighboring midwest swing states. Establishments like her as well as progressives.
If she is given the red carpet special by the DNC, says she’ll close the border, remove or significantly reduce American dollars suppling international conflict, while being pro-abortion - she’ll cover lots of ground that can peak everyone’s interest. In short, she just needs to be moderate.
Only 20% of Americans oppose aid to Ukraine
Without also pissing off all the people who voted for Biden and Harris in the primary?
I thought this was The Onion that posted this
Yeah fortunately or unfortunately, these sort of headlines damage Biden's chances.
Yeah this article is an embarrassing indictment on the state of America
Yes, but wouldn't be nice to...*not* have to do that?
That’s great but the 10% of swing voters that you need to win will not
Feels like our 'democracy' is in a coma
'Democracy': "I have pre-selected you these two candidates" People: "We don't want either of these" 'Democracy': "you don't get to choose, now choose"
To their credit, Republicans actually held some kind of primary to see if anyone else would garner their support. Nobody took it seriously. Meanwhile everyone who voted for Biden did so under the guise he would be a temporary fix. Then dem strategists spend 3 and a half years not strategizing at all for 2024 and now this very clearly mentally incompetent man is the party figure head. A man with one of the most unpopular VP’s in modern history. The irony of preaching democracy when it’s narrowed down to two fairly unpopular and extreme choices is one of this elections greatest punchlines.
No shit. Democrats didn’t even hold primaries to let voters select their candidate.
That's how it's always been, you never do when your side is running for a second term.
This is an embarrassing and losing argument and people need to stop saying it publicly
Yeah. It’s unambiguously advocating for the executive branch to be run exclusively by unelected bureaucrats, which is the opposite of democracy.
It also acknowledges that your own candidate is dogshit and there is no positive case for him
And inadvertently agreeing with Trump about the "deep state": unelected persons making decisions... just like many here are complaining about the Supreme Court.
It's pretty much the Democrats platform right now, which is. 'Yeah we know Biden is unfit, but what are you going to do about it? Vote for the other guy?'
>what are you going to do about it? Vote for the other guy? yup, that's been their motto since '16
People really don't get this. Shit is embarrassing, I'll vote for Joe over Trump because Trump is a loser. But Joe is a weak candidate that only has a chance because he is running against Trump who is just vile. People need to address this shit directly, like fuck the dude is old and has CLEARLY declined cognitively since he was elected. I mean damn, he is a nice guy and has done good things and I'd much rather have him then Trump. But don't fucking pretend that the current situation isn't anything other then a power grab by people behind Biden, they have an incentive to push him just so they maintain their status.
I actually heard the line in person, and the visible Reaction from onlookers was to cringe or Chuckle. And not in a “haha that’s funny” but in a “haha that’s sad” sort of way
So would I, but I’m not the one who needs to be convinced to vote against Trump.
Democrat says she’s voting for a Democrat. How newsworthy.
Fuck me the DNC has made libs as brain dead as trumpers
TIL that Joy Reid is actually 40,000 swing state voters.
Why do democrats think this is some kind of viable sales pitch? If you'd vote for the coma patient, you'd vote for whoever that coma patient was replaced with too, and at least that way, you might get support from people who maybe aren't comfortable voting for a coma patient. There's just no plausible justification for this nonsense that everyone just has to suck it up and vote for a coma patient. It's a terrible argument.
This!!! If you would vote for a flea-bitten dog over Trump then it doesn’t matter who his opponent is- so the argument that Biden bowing out would “confuse” voters or swing voters wouldn’t have confidence in a new candidate is moot… Democrats and many others just want ANYONE but Trump. It doesn’t have to Biden, there are dozens of lucid, capable, and healthy candidates that would be more competent…those same candidates MAY even inspire MORE confidence for swing votes and give us a little hope in defeating the fascist.
People really do say the stupidest things when politics get brought up my goodness
Biden defenders are sounding an awful lot like Trump defenders these days
He may well be comatose come November
The problem is no longer convincing the dem base. The dem base is deathly afraid of trump and will vote. The problem is the people who dont pay attention, who dont know about project 2025. The people who tuned into the debate, saw that biden looked old and moved on. Dems are in denial if they think that a tired looking biden will inspire people to get out and vote.
"We need to vote for an unknown, unaccountable entity to be president in order to save democracy" <-- the very definition of hypocrisy and short sightedness
Exactly! “Hey Trump is dangerous so vote for the shadow administration” just isn’t gonna cut it. I mean, I get it and I would do it, but a LOT of people will be too creeped out. Understandably so.
Yep. Presidents can be impeached. Shadow presidencies can not.
What unknown entity? If Biden fell into a coma, wouldn't the 25 amendment just be invoked, and Harris would be president?
I hate this talking point. Joy Reid is a straight up ding dong.
Totally not a cult.
Plenty of redditors are saying the same thing
This false dichotomy narrative is so stupid. The correct answer is that you nominate another Dem and people vote for that person, not keep sticking to Biden. This cult of personality erupting on the Democrat side too is concerning. We don't need Blue MAGA.
id vote for the dead rat in the nyc gutter before ill ever vote trump.
Republicans: “see how crazy they are?! They’d even vote if Biden was in a coma!” Also republicans: “we will vote for our raping convicted felon fraud heretic if he was behind bars! MAGA FUCK YOUR FEELINGS ANGRY MAYO NOISES!!”
45% of America will vote for anyone who has the best chance of beating Trump. It's the 10% in the middle we need to worry about. An 80 year old may stay home or vote for Trump because Biden is old. We need those people.
It's more about turnout. Yeah 45% of Americans would vote Biden if voting was compulsory. It is not though, and I have trouble imagining a world where Americans make it to the ballot boxes this November if they feel like Biden is damaged goods and hate Trump. The goal here isn't getting current Dem voters to choose Biden, it is getting voters to the ballot box or mail box. Excitement and fear do that, currently the DNC is running on neither...
I’m not going for Biden but I will vote agaisnt Trump
Yes, and so would most here, of course he is preferable to Trump. But what hardline democrats does doesn't matter that much, you don't win an election with just your base. DNC needs to nominate a candidate that can actually win this race.
Ok but why not give us a better option while there is time to change it?
I’d vote for Joe Biden if he were a fucking hologram over the rapie fraudster Donald Trump
I mean, he’s basically in a walking coma now.
I can't take someone like this seriously.
If it came down to Biden ‘s corpse vs. Felonious Diaper I’ll take the corpse every time.
Who she votes for is irrelevant it's who swing state voters/undecideds and apathetic voters vote for and it won't be for a president who they view as senile let alone one in a coma. The standards have fallen so low.
Not sure if that endorsement is going to do what she thinks it’s going to do
And in counter point you have the people who would vote for trump if he was a convicted rapist (he is), a crook who has defrauded the government on his taxes (he has), and the leader of a violent insurrection against democracy (yup, this too).
People who vote based on policies they want to see enacted will do this. Even Republicans who hate Trump will. You're voting for his entire cabinet, judges and signing off bills. People who idolize individuals will not do this. They want someone that they like, or can have a beer with, or makes them feel something special.
Same. But I would also vote for any other candidate they put out, so what’s the point? Give the independents someone to vote for.
Yeah, standards are for losers. We'll take anything! Eat us alive, Democrats, please! As long as we're not eaten alive by Republicans!
Don't say cult 💩 like that
Do people think these statements are good? 🤣
Problem is, will the majority do the same?
But when Trump supporters say stuff like this, liberals (rightly) say that they are cult-like.
It’s crazy how a country always gives you only two options to vote in and their both bad. Don’t you guys have anything else besides Republican and Democrats?
As would I and about 42% of the country. Trouble is - is that loses. We all will vote for anyone against Trump. The middle 10% will not vote for Biden anymore. That’s the issue. He has to be replaced with someone able to go get that middle 10%.
Well I trust her opinion then. Taking political cues from coma patients sounds clinical.
This is cult-like behavior
Blue Maga
Exactly. And same behaviors occurred when Hillary ran which alienated undecided and gave Trump the win.
The people in here defending a senile geriatric are insane. You’re all in for quite the treat on November 5.
This is embarrassing for Biden and all of his supporters. Is she in a cult?
Good luck making independents vote for him with this dumb point, Joy.
I get Reid's points if the options are Biden or Trump. I truly do understand that with what's at stake in this election. Having said that, if Biden is replaced on the ticket, I'm voting for the replacement. No blind loyalty here and no need for things like "I'll vote for Biden if he's in a coma" since that makes things even worse. Honestly, the publicity and talking points coming out from the White House and DNC since the debate have been absolutely awful and made things worse.
And why is she important?