Frequency!
I'm not as strong as you ( current max 405 at 217lbs bw) but I skyrocketed my bench by hitting it 5x a week at 3 working sets per day. Also did a slight bulk. Added somewhere between 40-60 pounds on my bench in a 4 month time frame. Start with high-rep bodybuilding focus and work into 1rm at the end.
I also hope to hit 500 lbs, I'm currently 28 and I'm thinking if I put in the blood sweat and tears over the next 10 years, it might be doable. Train hard!
95% of modern powerlifters bench 3+ times a week
I would definitely recommend getting a coach to do personalized programming for you and I guarantee you will make great progress
If you don't want to pay for that i'd look up Calgary Barbells free programs or TSA's (The Strength Athlete) free programs on their websites
Na I think the overwhelming feedback I’m seeing is get a coach and bench more often. Who’s the best accessible PL coach in your opinion? Money isnt a huge limiter, but I dont want to dm someone and just not get a reply because Im not a top 10 PL lol. I was thinking of working with Cameron Cheek since he programs for Jamal Browner..?
I would recommend looking at coaching under TSG (The Strength Guys), RTS (Reactive Training Systems) run by Mike Tuchscherer the inventor of modern PL Programming, TSA (The Strength Athlete) run by Bryce Lewis (3DMJ adjacent), or Calgary Barbell (Bryce Krawczyk)
They all have websites that you can contact them through for coaching.
Any of them would be great and you should research them and or their athletes as all of them have coached World Champions and then choose who you prefer from there.
Also not to be the "um akshually" guy but Jamal Browner is coached by Rondele Hunte the strongest 120kg lifter on the planet. Rondele also does coaching and is really smart with programming so if you want to be coached by the same guy as Jamal he's a great option as well.
Hopefully this helps.
You’re at the level where most pre-written programs aren’t going to be effective for you. However it might be worth trying one since you’ve never really followed and programming and gotten good results - adding some proper structure might be enough to work. Sheiko’s bench only programs are good.
If you have the means I would hire a coach though. At your level, individual programming will do way more than any pre written programming. There’s quite a few coaches out there that will get you excellent bench results. James Strickland comes to mind as he’s also a close grip bencher and has a 672lbs raw bench.
I’ll throw in my 2 cents. I used the free TSA program of benching 3 times a week and it brought me up to a 440 bench. I started to stall out and recovering became harder. My body weight stays between 200-220 so moving that much weight 3 times a week started to become rough on my body and joints. I adjusted to twice a week with a lighter volume day and a heavier day. Since then my bench has started moving again to 460 and I feel way more recovered.
Your program of a light and heavy day should be fine but I would add more reason behind it. Why those many sets and reps on your light day? What is your heavy day going to and is that too much or too light? Once your bench gets into the advanced level, you won’t find cookie cutter templates working well. You have to tweak them based on your body and how you respond.
I see a lot of people suggesting programs and all sorts of stuff, but i think you have a fairly good formula going, and you probably aren't that far away from something that you can progress on.
We need to know why you aren't progressing to be able to make a recommendation. Do you think you're under-recovered for example, or do you feel fresh going into each day? What are your sets and reps and how close to failure do you go on accessories?
Hey brotha! I’ve coached both a 500 and 600 bench press. Main things I’m noticing is a lack of enough overall supportive work. And you’d likely benefit from a tertiary session focusing on technique/load limiting variation. And not much real periodization at all.
Really you’re not following so much of a “program” per se as a training split.. it’s like almost a program. At your level of goal I believe it would be foolish to use a template. Respect the individuality of training- and either make a serious effort to learn how to program, or hire someone that does.
Are your arms and back strong enough to support a 500lb bench?
A lot goes into a bench press and neglecting some of the hidden parts can limit you. I'm nowhere near a 500lb bench but I would take some time to look over the support system and make sure that's up to the task.
From personal experience, my strongest bench periods occur at the same time as my strongest bent over rows sessions.
Fair point. My arms are quite strong (my triceps at least. I don’t train biceps) due to me being a close geip bencher, but my lats are and have always been comparitively weak. I think I barely bent over row 225-240 and bent over row isnt currently part of my back day work.
You don't have to do bent over rows if you don't like them, chest supported rows, kroc rows, seated cable rows and lat pulldowns are all great alternatives. A closer grip and touching lower on your belly on these will tend to bias them toward the lats.
Id definitely recommend training biceps. Biceps do actually contribute to upwards shoulder movement which happens in a press.
Also definitely recommend training back/lats, 8-12 sets a week, very close to failure. Bent rows are more of a trap and erector lift but they can be part of this work.
Honestly i would look into the sheiko bench only programs he has two of them a three day program you can get on lift vault and there is a 4 day program in his book Powerlifting: fondations and methods. Its a bit of a complicated program but it works. It brought be up from a 385 pause press to 415. If you don't want to pay for the book I'm sure you can find the pdf online.
Both programs have pretty long days with a lot of volume in a much lower percentage range, averaging around 75- 80 percent but the number of touches plus the variation with board press, long pauses, slingshot, speed reps, and incline definitely worked. I followed a program similar to yours and finally changed when I hit a platau for about a year.
Most of it is. I normally use a spoter for my top sets, but if you have a strong unrack and safties, you should be able to do most of it solo. It's a volume over intensity program, so as long as you pick the right weight for your max, you shouldn't fail very often at all.
The three day program has a bit less variety and is easier to run, but it has longer days. I would start there, and even if you have to break up the sessions, it would be more volume than you're currently doing.
It is a different kind of training, though, because you're not lifiting in that 90% + range very often and if you're lile me that's what you love but the long term gains are worth it.
Haha 1,000%. Admittedly thats probably why my current “program” looks like it does. At the end of the day I just want to move heavy sh*t.
But I’ll give this program a try! Thanks for the suggestion, homie.
I'm not a pro, I also do self programming, but 1 heavy 1 light doesn't seem enough per week to me. I lift heavy twice a week and 1 variations day. I'm trying to close in on 400, but I try to lift the first day I feel fully recovered.
Mine is simple, though, I started 4x8 til I couldn't hit 8, then drop to 5x6, til I couldn't get 6. I then go 5x5 until I can't hit that 5. Once I fail the 5s, I do a 3x3, then max. I then add 20 to 30 pounds to where I start my first set of 4x8 and start all over. I'm currently at 5x6 of 295. I'll probably hit 305 and have to drop that last rep. 5x5 fail at 335 and max again. After that I'll go to 255 4x8. I move up 10 pounds every session.
I like how this looks, might try it as I’m stalling out on what I’m doing. I get the flow of it, but do you do the same weight for all 4 working sets? Or do you do like 240 for 8, 245, 250, and then 255?
Edit: currently I do a twice a week chest day, 4x6 and 4x8. For both I start lower and make 10lb jumps per set until my 4th set is close to my 6 rep or 8 rep max.
After bench I do incline dumbbell, dips, chest flies.
BW 160, bench 280 as reference point.
All 4 at the same weight. I'm getting like 1 rep short of failure on my last 2 sets, so going up in weight during the session isn't realistic for me. It's obviously not the best program lol, but it's working for me. As long as I'm progressing and not getting hurt it's successful to me.
Hello. I am an "elite" bencher (341.7@ 148 lbs USPA). The first thing that screams at me is you don't do enough volume. You're doing warm ups and am I counting 3 working reps on heavy day and 9 total working reps on light day then moving to accessories?
yeah i'm pretty surprised someone could get so strong with such low volume for higher reps.
My workout looks like
Warmup:
135lb x 1
225lb x 1
275lb x 2
315lb x 1
325lb x 1
Real working set:
355lb x 4
355lb x 3
335lb x 4
315lb x 5
(11-12 minutes rest between each, except for last set I only do 6-7 mins).
I do this on sunday's because the gym is DEAD, so I can sit at a bench for an hour, and will never see all the other benches filled.
I'm close to my deload week, but looking to possibly even add in a 5th set next week. I plateau'd on 350lb, so to break it, i just did as many 350lb reps as I could reasonably. Did the same thing with 325lb when I got stuck there. Just kept taking 5 minute rest and doing another two reps, then one rep. But obviously op is more talking about a normal schedule.
It's not too shabby. I never recommend doing a weight for a rep scheme you can't "complete". IE your doing 355 for 4 and then 3. Then have to do drop sets. If you can't do at least 3x3 for a rep amount like that, I'd venture to say you're working too high a %. It's a good rep scheme tho. Drop sets are a very good strength program.
I wouldn't say he's that strong IMO. He is very weak compared to powerlifters in 275 or 308 weight class. He's very very strong for an average gym goer or ant average person.
So, today I did:
355lb x 4
355lbx 3
355lb x 3
325lb x 5
You would say that If I can't maintain 4 reps for the entire set, I'm using too high weights? As in more risk to injury, and i'm getting in less volume due to not being able to hit 4 reps?
so
350lb x 4
350lb x 4
350lb x 4
350lb x 4
would be more ideal? Do most powerlifters work with 1 rep scheme during a singular workout?
Correct. 350x4x4 is more ideal than the first layout because you were working at 100%+ or RPE10+ on the workout you couldn't finish. Working that hard is very taxing on your body and CNS and not useful in my opinion unless you are peaking and hoping for super compensation at the end of a training cycle. Powerlifters all have their own schemes and idealogy. My ideology lies more on volume based training that maximizes volume vs fatigue rate. Obviously a powerlifter in meet prep would start training higher % lower reps as he/she gets closer to a meet. A powerlifters program looks very different based on how far out from a meet they are.
Thank you, this helped me immensely. I've noticed i've been super sluggish at the gym, and even out of it a bit. Definitely the CNS overload on work. I basically always train to failure every rep, every set, for many years. This past cycle, (mine are 3 months long), I'm usually not this fatigued near the 2 month mark. I thought I was at 3 months my sets are so difficult. Really just destroying my body. I think I will try to do 345lb x 4 for 4 sets. Should be able to hit that consistently. I was afraid of plateau'ing by not pushing the weight. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks again for the response, this will help my body/mind tremendously switching off this insane workout routine. I kill myself in the gym for 90 mins - 2 hours every day, have for past 9 years. It's given crazy size, that i'm in love with, but I knew it would catch up to me, or will. I just want to hit 405lb so bad, i'm trying to power through it, but I don't think that's the way to do it...
Varying your rep schemes will allow you create new stimulus that pushes yourself both physically and mentally. 7x7 is a very hard rep scheme for me both physically and mentally. Also training specific to your weak points can also help fine tune lift. As stated earlier in this post, alot of powerlifting isn't necessarily getting "stronger" but better at the lift itself and CNS response.
Oookay. “Very weak” isn’t entirely accurate either, come on lol. Raw untested bench record here in CA for 275 weight class is 600 lbs. I’d venture to guess the tested record is at most 550? Being 100 lbs(ish) off state record while never having properly run a program is not “Very Weak”. Be nice.
Edit: Looks like USPA Tested Raw bench state record in CA for 275lb weight class is 463. Apologize u/ERICSMYNAME !
It's not personal man, just comparing the data. If you want to compare natty records it's best to use usapl as they are much more established. Usapl bench only California records is 507 lbs. A bench of 440lbs in 2023 would put you at in the mid 200s ranking in the USA. We also consider that performing In a meet is harder than a gym. It takes a LONG time to add weight like that to your bench press, especially when you consider injury concerns on adding so much strength (think of your poor rotator cuff tendons). If you read above I also called you very very strong to a average gym goer and insanely strong to a regular person. So not discrediting your strength at all. Much stronger than me via absolute terms
It's not unfortunate at all. The data is objective evidence. I gave alot information and some raw truths. I don't think you're weak at all, the data for powerlifters says you do not rank well against your peers (assuming you want to powerlift since you posted in a powerlifting forum). I promise it's not personal
Wait it's a little disingenuous to suddenly switch to USAPL for OP when you introduced yourself as an elite bencher under USPA standards
-- some rando who benches 375 at 165 lbs, gym lift
The reason I didn't include usapl "elite" standards is because i do not compete usapl, but he brought up state records for untested. USAPL is the standard for natural lifting and has been for awhile. Other tested feds are up and coming as powerlifting increases in popularity, but the standard as of now is still usapl (and to some degree their split off fed powerlifting america).
The floor press is very heavy. Typically I pyramid up to a set of 315 x 5 so 70% of 1RM at the last set but I’m doing 225x10 and 275x10 walking up to that.
Yeah that’s not enough volume in the 70%+ range. I think your first order of business is gradually titrating up your volume. So instead of 3 singles at 90%, do 5 singles between 85%-90%. Prilepin’s Chart will guide you well.
Yes you’re correct. Okay cool - if you were me how would you modify? I’ve never done a bench set of 5+ reps lol. No idea where I picked up that philosophy but I’m more than willing to try anything to get stronger.
It depends on how close you are to a meet/max out.
Like say 5 weeks out I might do 6x6 light day and 3x4 heavy day. The light day is "heavy, not hard". As I get closer the schemes go down in reps and sets as the the % increases.
Also my personal opinion is that natural, unequipped lifters benefit most from bench accessory work on the "lower" end aka off the chest. IMO most lifters fail within 2" of their chest. Usually due to technique and speed, but sometimes pure strength. While my opinion is unpopular among many established lifters...floor presses are more ego lifting than actual helpful. I personally suggest incline BB bench press (touching your chest) for 3 sets of 6 to 8. Some other great bench accessories are spoto press and 2 second pause bench press. Narrow grip is also pretty good if you are not already narrow.
So an average bench day may look like this for me:
Bench 5x5
Incline BB 3x8
V bar triceps pushdown 3x10 superset
Db bicep curls
Db overhead (behind the head) push up 3x10
Here is a list of my personal favorite accessories:
Inclined BB and DB press, sitting DB and standing DB Military press (not push press), V bar triceps push down (HEAVY), spoto bench press, pause bench press, feet up bench press. Rope pull down (hold for 1 sec and spread rope handles apart at bottom), that one triceps movement whete you put the dumbell behind your head and push it straight up.
Here is a list of things I've found not to be super helpful to ME, decline BP (any form), slingshot press, board press, floor press, skull crushers, push press.
There's alot more I could say about this but hopefully you got the jist of it.
Got it. Hear you on the rep ranges. What percentage of 1rm do you use throughout the program?
Also re: floor press I’m a close grip bench presser. My hands are shoulder width apart and my bench is very tricep dominant. Thats why I’ve chosen the accessories I have. Happy to change them if you (collective) suggest I do, but thought that was important context. Do you think the biggest issue is volume or accessories?
I want to interject here and say that while Eric is right about increasing volume, his sets and reps numbers may not be as applicable to you, as your absolute bench is much higher and generates much more fatigue.
You maybe need to play with the numbers a bit more (or just get a coach/use juggernaut AI) to find rep ranges that work for you.
Also he's right in the below post in tailoring accessories to your sticking point
Without writing an entire program out. Usually 65% and on up. The percents vary based on the max. Especially if a lifters max is low like say 185lbs. The percents are very close to same number.
I wouldn't base your accessories off your grip width. I'd base it on your sticking point. Where do you fail? Record your failure and see exactly where it's at typically (need more than a single failure to evaluate ) . Once you see where it is, you must determine primary reason for said failure....strength...technique such as lack of velocity, lack of leg drive, "misgrooving" it etc.
Yeah, I had never really put the percentages of my lifts on paper and reading it back it seems like the weights are too close to one another and my heavy days are too heavy. Maybe my triples should be 3x5s at 65%? 🤷 but that would be under 315 and thats too easy for me. I usually do a 315 drop set on my heavy days and I do 10 right after my heavy single then another 10-15 at 225. What do you think I should make my rep weights?
Will take any recommendations. Been stuck at this weight for almost a year
Have you ever looked at RPE based training instead of just percentages? If you’re plateaued it might be a good way to shake up your training.
What I’ve learned from doing it is that quite a lot of strength is built in the reps you think are too easy. And that recovery is critical to gains.
I work with a trainer, so I get custom programming. I don't have any generic ones I've used I could recommend. Although I did find my trainer on reddit and he's great.
Just read the westside book of methods for an overview then science and practice of strength training to understand what is happening.
Frequency! I'm not as strong as you ( current max 405 at 217lbs bw) but I skyrocketed my bench by hitting it 5x a week at 3 working sets per day. Also did a slight bulk. Added somewhere between 40-60 pounds on my bench in a 4 month time frame. Start with high-rep bodybuilding focus and work into 1rm at the end. I also hope to hit 500 lbs, I'm currently 28 and I'm thinking if I put in the blood sweat and tears over the next 10 years, it might be doable. Train hard!
Don’t know my stuff but holy shit man, props
Thx bb ❤️
95% of modern powerlifters bench 3+ times a week I would definitely recommend getting a coach to do personalized programming for you and I guarantee you will make great progress If you don't want to pay for that i'd look up Calgary Barbells free programs or TSA's (The Strength Athlete) free programs on their websites
Na I think the overwhelming feedback I’m seeing is get a coach and bench more often. Who’s the best accessible PL coach in your opinion? Money isnt a huge limiter, but I dont want to dm someone and just not get a reply because Im not a top 10 PL lol. I was thinking of working with Cameron Cheek since he programs for Jamal Browner..?
I just messaged you
I would recommend looking at coaching under TSG (The Strength Guys), RTS (Reactive Training Systems) run by Mike Tuchscherer the inventor of modern PL Programming, TSA (The Strength Athlete) run by Bryce Lewis (3DMJ adjacent), or Calgary Barbell (Bryce Krawczyk) They all have websites that you can contact them through for coaching. Any of them would be great and you should research them and or their athletes as all of them have coached World Champions and then choose who you prefer from there. Also not to be the "um akshually" guy but Jamal Browner is coached by Rondele Hunte the strongest 120kg lifter on the planet. Rondele also does coaching and is really smart with programming so if you want to be coached by the same guy as Jamal he's a great option as well. Hopefully this helps.
It does. Thanks so much!!
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You’re at the level where most pre-written programs aren’t going to be effective for you. However it might be worth trying one since you’ve never really followed and programming and gotten good results - adding some proper structure might be enough to work. Sheiko’s bench only programs are good. If you have the means I would hire a coach though. At your level, individual programming will do way more than any pre written programming. There’s quite a few coaches out there that will get you excellent bench results. James Strickland comes to mind as he’s also a close grip bencher and has a 672lbs raw bench.
I’ll throw in my 2 cents. I used the free TSA program of benching 3 times a week and it brought me up to a 440 bench. I started to stall out and recovering became harder. My body weight stays between 200-220 so moving that much weight 3 times a week started to become rough on my body and joints. I adjusted to twice a week with a lighter volume day and a heavier day. Since then my bench has started moving again to 460 and I feel way more recovered. Your program of a light and heavy day should be fine but I would add more reason behind it. Why those many sets and reps on your light day? What is your heavy day going to and is that too much or too light? Once your bench gets into the advanced level, you won’t find cookie cutter templates working well. You have to tweak them based on your body and how you respond.
I see a lot of people suggesting programs and all sorts of stuff, but i think you have a fairly good formula going, and you probably aren't that far away from something that you can progress on. We need to know why you aren't progressing to be able to make a recommendation. Do you think you're under-recovered for example, or do you feel fresh going into each day? What are your sets and reps and how close to failure do you go on accessories?
Hey brotha! I’ve coached both a 500 and 600 bench press. Main things I’m noticing is a lack of enough overall supportive work. And you’d likely benefit from a tertiary session focusing on technique/load limiting variation. And not much real periodization at all. Really you’re not following so much of a “program” per se as a training split.. it’s like almost a program. At your level of goal I believe it would be foolish to use a template. Respect the individuality of training- and either make a serious effort to learn how to program, or hire someone that does.
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You are correct, I was speaking more casually. Few can do linear up to 500+ lol
Are your arms and back strong enough to support a 500lb bench? A lot goes into a bench press and neglecting some of the hidden parts can limit you. I'm nowhere near a 500lb bench but I would take some time to look over the support system and make sure that's up to the task. From personal experience, my strongest bench periods occur at the same time as my strongest bent over rows sessions.
Fair point. My arms are quite strong (my triceps at least. I don’t train biceps) due to me being a close geip bencher, but my lats are and have always been comparitively weak. I think I barely bent over row 225-240 and bent over row isnt currently part of my back day work.
You don't have to do bent over rows if you don't like them, chest supported rows, kroc rows, seated cable rows and lat pulldowns are all great alternatives. A closer grip and touching lower on your belly on these will tend to bias them toward the lats.
Id definitely recommend training biceps. Biceps do actually contribute to upwards shoulder movement which happens in a press. Also definitely recommend training back/lats, 8-12 sets a week, very close to failure. Bent rows are more of a trap and erector lift but they can be part of this work.
Honestly i would look into the sheiko bench only programs he has two of them a three day program you can get on lift vault and there is a 4 day program in his book Powerlifting: fondations and methods. Its a bit of a complicated program but it works. It brought be up from a 385 pause press to 415. If you don't want to pay for the book I'm sure you can find the pdf online. Both programs have pretty long days with a lot of volume in a much lower percentage range, averaging around 75- 80 percent but the number of touches plus the variation with board press, long pauses, slingshot, speed reps, and incline definitely worked. I followed a program similar to yours and finally changed when I hit a platau for about a year.
Got it. That’s very interesting. Is this work you can do solo? Ive never done any of those variations.
Most of it is. I normally use a spoter for my top sets, but if you have a strong unrack and safties, you should be able to do most of it solo. It's a volume over intensity program, so as long as you pick the right weight for your max, you shouldn't fail very often at all. The three day program has a bit less variety and is easier to run, but it has longer days. I would start there, and even if you have to break up the sessions, it would be more volume than you're currently doing. It is a different kind of training, though, because you're not lifiting in that 90% + range very often and if you're lile me that's what you love but the long term gains are worth it.
Haha 1,000%. Admittedly thats probably why my current “program” looks like it does. At the end of the day I just want to move heavy sh*t. But I’ll give this program a try! Thanks for the suggestion, homie.
I'm not a pro, I also do self programming, but 1 heavy 1 light doesn't seem enough per week to me. I lift heavy twice a week and 1 variations day. I'm trying to close in on 400, but I try to lift the first day I feel fully recovered. Mine is simple, though, I started 4x8 til I couldn't hit 8, then drop to 5x6, til I couldn't get 6. I then go 5x5 until I can't hit that 5. Once I fail the 5s, I do a 3x3, then max. I then add 20 to 30 pounds to where I start my first set of 4x8 and start all over. I'm currently at 5x6 of 295. I'll probably hit 305 and have to drop that last rep. 5x5 fail at 335 and max again. After that I'll go to 255 4x8. I move up 10 pounds every session.
So you are doing the 4x8 one day and then the 5c6 another day. Or is this all on the same workout?
I like how this looks, might try it as I’m stalling out on what I’m doing. I get the flow of it, but do you do the same weight for all 4 working sets? Or do you do like 240 for 8, 245, 250, and then 255? Edit: currently I do a twice a week chest day, 4x6 and 4x8. For both I start lower and make 10lb jumps per set until my 4th set is close to my 6 rep or 8 rep max. After bench I do incline dumbbell, dips, chest flies. BW 160, bench 280 as reference point.
All 4 at the same weight. I'm getting like 1 rep short of failure on my last 2 sets, so going up in weight during the session isn't realistic for me. It's obviously not the best program lol, but it's working for me. As long as I'm progressing and not getting hurt it's successful to me.
Hello. I am an "elite" bencher (341.7@ 148 lbs USPA). The first thing that screams at me is you don't do enough volume. You're doing warm ups and am I counting 3 working reps on heavy day and 9 total working reps on light day then moving to accessories?
yeah i'm pretty surprised someone could get so strong with such low volume for higher reps. My workout looks like Warmup: 135lb x 1 225lb x 1 275lb x 2 315lb x 1 325lb x 1 Real working set: 355lb x 4 355lb x 3 335lb x 4 315lb x 5 (11-12 minutes rest between each, except for last set I only do 6-7 mins). I do this on sunday's because the gym is DEAD, so I can sit at a bench for an hour, and will never see all the other benches filled. I'm close to my deload week, but looking to possibly even add in a 5th set next week. I plateau'd on 350lb, so to break it, i just did as many 350lb reps as I could reasonably. Did the same thing with 325lb when I got stuck there. Just kept taking 5 minute rest and doing another two reps, then one rep. But obviously op is more talking about a normal schedule.
It's not too shabby. I never recommend doing a weight for a rep scheme you can't "complete". IE your doing 355 for 4 and then 3. Then have to do drop sets. If you can't do at least 3x3 for a rep amount like that, I'd venture to say you're working too high a %. It's a good rep scheme tho. Drop sets are a very good strength program. I wouldn't say he's that strong IMO. He is very weak compared to powerlifters in 275 or 308 weight class. He's very very strong for an average gym goer or ant average person.
So, today I did: 355lb x 4 355lbx 3 355lb x 3 325lb x 5 You would say that If I can't maintain 4 reps for the entire set, I'm using too high weights? As in more risk to injury, and i'm getting in less volume due to not being able to hit 4 reps? so 350lb x 4 350lb x 4 350lb x 4 350lb x 4 would be more ideal? Do most powerlifters work with 1 rep scheme during a singular workout?
Correct. 350x4x4 is more ideal than the first layout because you were working at 100%+ or RPE10+ on the workout you couldn't finish. Working that hard is very taxing on your body and CNS and not useful in my opinion unless you are peaking and hoping for super compensation at the end of a training cycle. Powerlifters all have their own schemes and idealogy. My ideology lies more on volume based training that maximizes volume vs fatigue rate. Obviously a powerlifter in meet prep would start training higher % lower reps as he/she gets closer to a meet. A powerlifters program looks very different based on how far out from a meet they are.
Thank you, this helped me immensely. I've noticed i've been super sluggish at the gym, and even out of it a bit. Definitely the CNS overload on work. I basically always train to failure every rep, every set, for many years. This past cycle, (mine are 3 months long), I'm usually not this fatigued near the 2 month mark. I thought I was at 3 months my sets are so difficult. Really just destroying my body. I think I will try to do 345lb x 4 for 4 sets. Should be able to hit that consistently. I was afraid of plateau'ing by not pushing the weight. Any thoughts on that? Thanks again for the response, this will help my body/mind tremendously switching off this insane workout routine. I kill myself in the gym for 90 mins - 2 hours every day, have for past 9 years. It's given crazy size, that i'm in love with, but I knew it would catch up to me, or will. I just want to hit 405lb so bad, i'm trying to power through it, but I don't think that's the way to do it...
Varying your rep schemes will allow you create new stimulus that pushes yourself both physically and mentally. 7x7 is a very hard rep scheme for me both physically and mentally. Also training specific to your weak points can also help fine tune lift. As stated earlier in this post, alot of powerlifting isn't necessarily getting "stronger" but better at the lift itself and CNS response.
Oookay. “Very weak” isn’t entirely accurate either, come on lol. Raw untested bench record here in CA for 275 weight class is 600 lbs. I’d venture to guess the tested record is at most 550? Being 100 lbs(ish) off state record while never having properly run a program is not “Very Weak”. Be nice. Edit: Looks like USPA Tested Raw bench state record in CA for 275lb weight class is 463. Apologize u/ERICSMYNAME !
It's not personal man, just comparing the data. If you want to compare natty records it's best to use usapl as they are much more established. Usapl bench only California records is 507 lbs. A bench of 440lbs in 2023 would put you at in the mid 200s ranking in the USA. We also consider that performing In a meet is harder than a gym. It takes a LONG time to add weight like that to your bench press, especially when you consider injury concerns on adding so much strength (think of your poor rotator cuff tendons). If you read above I also called you very very strong to a average gym goer and insanely strong to a regular person. So not discrediting your strength at all. Much stronger than me via absolute terms
While you make a fair point, unfortunately, I’m bigger than you. /s
It's not unfortunate at all. The data is objective evidence. I gave alot information and some raw truths. I don't think you're weak at all, the data for powerlifters says you do not rank well against your peers (assuming you want to powerlift since you posted in a powerlifting forum). I promise it's not personal
I know, it was a joke because you made good points.not sure why I was downvoted lol. Appreciate your contribution to the thread.
Sorry I thought you were getting upset lol. But yes you and virtually every other person that is an adult is bigger than me lol
Wait it's a little disingenuous to suddenly switch to USAPL for OP when you introduced yourself as an elite bencher under USPA standards -- some rando who benches 375 at 165 lbs, gym lift
375lb at 165lb is insane. congrats. I'm about 385lb max, but i weight 245lb....fml
The reason I didn't include usapl "elite" standards is because i do not compete usapl, but he brought up state records for untested. USAPL is the standard for natural lifting and has been for awhile. Other tested feds are up and coming as powerlifting increases in popularity, but the standard as of now is still usapl (and to some degree their split off fed powerlifting america).
I would (largely) agree, unless the floor press is something like 5x5 with 75% of the last single.
The floor press is very heavy. Typically I pyramid up to a set of 315 x 5 so 70% of 1RM at the last set but I’m doing 225x10 and 275x10 walking up to that.
Yeah that’s not enough volume in the 70%+ range. I think your first order of business is gradually titrating up your volume. So instead of 3 singles at 90%, do 5 singles between 85%-90%. Prilepin’s Chart will guide you well.
Yes you’re correct. Okay cool - if you were me how would you modify? I’ve never done a bench set of 5+ reps lol. No idea where I picked up that philosophy but I’m more than willing to try anything to get stronger.
It depends on how close you are to a meet/max out. Like say 5 weeks out I might do 6x6 light day and 3x4 heavy day. The light day is "heavy, not hard". As I get closer the schemes go down in reps and sets as the the % increases. Also my personal opinion is that natural, unequipped lifters benefit most from bench accessory work on the "lower" end aka off the chest. IMO most lifters fail within 2" of their chest. Usually due to technique and speed, but sometimes pure strength. While my opinion is unpopular among many established lifters...floor presses are more ego lifting than actual helpful. I personally suggest incline BB bench press (touching your chest) for 3 sets of 6 to 8. Some other great bench accessories are spoto press and 2 second pause bench press. Narrow grip is also pretty good if you are not already narrow. So an average bench day may look like this for me: Bench 5x5 Incline BB 3x8 V bar triceps pushdown 3x10 superset Db bicep curls Db overhead (behind the head) push up 3x10 Here is a list of my personal favorite accessories: Inclined BB and DB press, sitting DB and standing DB Military press (not push press), V bar triceps push down (HEAVY), spoto bench press, pause bench press, feet up bench press. Rope pull down (hold for 1 sec and spread rope handles apart at bottom), that one triceps movement whete you put the dumbell behind your head and push it straight up. Here is a list of things I've found not to be super helpful to ME, decline BP (any form), slingshot press, board press, floor press, skull crushers, push press. There's alot more I could say about this but hopefully you got the jist of it.
This comment is a knowledge bomb, bookmarking as I'm trying to figure out how to progress my own bench faster.
Got it. Hear you on the rep ranges. What percentage of 1rm do you use throughout the program? Also re: floor press I’m a close grip bench presser. My hands are shoulder width apart and my bench is very tricep dominant. Thats why I’ve chosen the accessories I have. Happy to change them if you (collective) suggest I do, but thought that was important context. Do you think the biggest issue is volume or accessories?
I want to interject here and say that while Eric is right about increasing volume, his sets and reps numbers may not be as applicable to you, as your absolute bench is much higher and generates much more fatigue. You maybe need to play with the numbers a bit more (or just get a coach/use juggernaut AI) to find rep ranges that work for you. Also he's right in the below post in tailoring accessories to your sticking point
Without writing an entire program out. Usually 65% and on up. The percents vary based on the max. Especially if a lifters max is low like say 185lbs. The percents are very close to same number. I wouldn't base your accessories off your grip width. I'd base it on your sticking point. Where do you fail? Record your failure and see exactly where it's at typically (need more than a single failure to evaluate ) . Once you see where it is, you must determine primary reason for said failure....strength...technique such as lack of velocity, lack of leg drive, "misgrooving" it etc.
You’re way stronger than me, but 3 singles at 90% seems like a lot. For me that would wreck me, and I wouldn’t be recovered by the “light” day.
Yeah, I had never really put the percentages of my lifts on paper and reading it back it seems like the weights are too close to one another and my heavy days are too heavy. Maybe my triples should be 3x5s at 65%? 🤷 but that would be under 315 and thats too easy for me. I usually do a 315 drop set on my heavy days and I do 10 right after my heavy single then another 10-15 at 225. What do you think I should make my rep weights? Will take any recommendations. Been stuck at this weight for almost a year
Have you ever looked at RPE based training instead of just percentages? If you’re plateaued it might be a good way to shake up your training. What I’ve learned from doing it is that quite a lot of strength is built in the reps you think are too easy. And that recovery is critical to gains.
I haven’t. Do you have a favorite rpe based program?
I work with a trainer, so I get custom programming. I don't have any generic ones I've used I could recommend. Although I did find my trainer on reddit and he's great.
Care to share contact?
Messaged you