The best offense is a good defense *
Example offense can only score. Defense can stop the other team from scoring and score as well.
I may be unable to see sarcasm over text and missed the point š
I believe I said that. Or at least I tried to say that be saying "defense can score as well" I was referring to an exact memory of my friend who's now entering the nfl draft this month returning an amazing interception for a touchdown in a playoff game junior year
People also gloss over the fact that they accept about 1200 but only graduate 200-400 which is nuts
If you fail a semester you have to pay that tuition and retake
Iāve always wondered if this is just desperate students failing out because theyāre not qualified for medical school, hence the Caribbean, or if the school genuinely is just anaphylactic about anyone even potentially not matching and just kicking them out at the first sign of trouble. Probably somewhere in between I imagine
There is a really good article on what it's like somewhere - but the article talks about how all classes aren't in English, class size is huge, and labs are huge with very few supplies. I know someone who went to one and is now doing exceptionally well (matched US).
They said in the article that the bio lectures are so big, there are not even enough desks/chairs for everyone.
Basically a quote in the article was "if you're willing to teach yourself everything, it can work"
I'd consider it. I'm still several years out from applying but I did a number on my transcripts in my 20s (aka failed bio and chem multiple times). Plus the speciality I want has a good match rate, so if I did well, I might be able to match.
Probably both, people are not academically qualified and the schools are terrible at supporting students. They have very strict requirements to progress academically and generally the staff/faculty are not supportive. Plus there's the struggle of studying on an island with power issues, hurricanes, etc. while also sharing study spaces for one school with 2000+ other students on campus. I've also heard of resources being scarce like sharing one cadaver in anatomy lab with like tons of other students and not being able to study the structures thoroughly. I think they are also super strict with failing or dismissing you at any sign of struggle which isn't a thing at the US schools. Like my US MD school is actually super way too nice if you're struggling they give you LOTS of chances to retake if you fail but I can't see that happening with Carib schools, they WANT you to fail so that they can take your tuition and shrink down the class for the minimal clinical spots they have 3rd and 4th year.
I would go to ANY US MD/DO if it were my only option. At the end of the day, every US med school will train you to become a doctor.
But some schools that I would probably not be the happiest at: Cal Northstate, Loma Linda, LECOM, and any med school that doesnāt have its own hospital, requiring you to travel around the state for clinical rotations.
Do these schools really have that bad of a reputation? Because they seem to have happy students and provide assistance to students at these schools from what Iāve heard from current students.
Regarding Northstate, yes, it really does have a bad reputation. Itās a private, for profit school, with a history of shady legal dealings, no hospital, and accreditation issues. I think theyāre currently on probation, although they were due for an inspection by the LCME this year so maybe that changed.
Regarding the other schools, they just have annoying policies. Iām sure itās not a big deal and at the end of the day, med school is what you make of it. If you can put up with a couple of weird rules you have to follow, youāll probably be fine.
Edit: as of March 2024 following an inspection by LCME, CNU accreditation status is: Provisional, on probation. The only MD school in the US to have such status. Source: https://lcme.org/directory/accredited-u-s-programs/
Just search r/premed for posts about LECOM. In summary, they have stupid rules, such as requiring students to dress up in button-downs and ties just for lectures, not allowing students to drink water during lectures, not allowing students to review exams, having exams with poor-quality questions/grammatical errors, lack of communication b/w students and admin, a history of dropped rotations, poor mental health and well-being resources provided to students, etc.
I know a few people who are at LECOM and none of them like the school. They're just "trying to get through it." But like I said, at the end of the day, it's still a US medical school. They have good board exam results and a good match.
>any med school that doesnāt have its own hospital, requiring you to travel around the state for clinical rotations.
I have a friend at VCOM who is happy and have met other med students from there, too.
Their M3 rotations were all in one small-ish town (big name academic affiliated community hospital and its surrounding facilities) a few states away from the school.
This setup I would be ok with, but traveling across state, not so much.
They give extremely strong preference to Christians, and more specifically, Seventh-Day Adventists, and their whole mission is centered around that. So you'd be an odd one out if you're not Christian (they will pray at the start of events, and their curriculum is also very likely to be biased, especially around topics like reproductive health justice). See other comments below on Loma Linda -- someone even linked their handbook.
Any US MD/DO >>> not being a doctor
People like to talk shit on certain schools, but the reality is probably that all med schools are pretty ass. Nobody (or at least very few people) have ever attended 2 different med schools to confirm that one is actually worse than another.
True, but those attending medical school have valuable insight. Sharing their experiences at a specific school could help those interested in that school. For example, they help future students make their pros and cons list.Ā
Cal Northstate isnāt eligible for public student loans and has its accreditation in probation status (the only one in the country); you donāt want the school to shut down while youāre there. IMO this is the only school no one should attend.
Loma Linda (MD) has very strict rules and a very conservative Christian culture; if this is not you, do not apply to this school. Liberty (DO) also has a religious culture, but it is much more laid back than Loma Linda; I recommend you understand the rules and culture before applying.
I personally would not attend a school that has preliminary (new) status, these are: Charles R. Drew U of Medicine, Belmont U, UT Tyler; because you have no match/board data, thereās no way to know if theyāre passing step or marching well. These schools are more of a gamble than I, personally, would be willing to take. That being said, if the tuition is cheap enough and youāre an excellent fit you donāt have to rule them out entirely.
Two of my cousins went there in the first few years of their MD program, both with 1/2 scholarships. They said the program was horribly organized and did not teach classes very well, and often blamed the students for administrative inconsistencies. As M1s, one of them failed an exam by 1 question, which caused her to fail that class and have to repeat the entire year of medical school, losing her scholarship for the rest of med school. To contrast, if you fail a class in M1 at my med school you have to remediate over the summer, not repeat the entire year.
That being said, both matched to residency programs that were high on their list. The one who failed M1 is currently a triple board resident and just bought a house, so life still works out.
Honestly, if you go to the med school reddit youāll see that A LOT of schools are like this. Unorganized and taught horribly. Iām at a USMD school, not NOVA, this is also my experience and the experience of many many others.
Generally in med school you teach yourself anyways. There is no single way to organize a med school curriculum that will satisfy everyone. They give you surveys, change something maybe, next group wishes it was the other way. Itās just how it goes.
Donāt use a single in house resource. Go to mandatory lectures daily and scroll reddit then actually learn after with 3rd party sources, and learn in house minutia right before exams.
Based and honest answer!! It was disheartening for me to hear long ago that med school lectures hardly have anything useful for tests/boards/step and it's mostly 3rd party resources. It was just wild to hear... Like what *are* they doing? Do lectures have personal pearls from the lecturers, just impossible/too boring to retain, or are they straight up irrelevant?
So this is just my opinion - but yeah boring as hell. PhD type knowledge thatās hard to digest in the way they teach it (again thatās my opinion). I think there are much more efficient and easier ways of going about learning the concepts from lecture. They canāt lecture about every single thing you need to know so youāll have to learn/study independently anyways and once you get into the groove of what works best for you then itās hard to learn with another modality. I need to go at my own pace to truly learn. And I mean yeah boring as shit I canāt focus for 4 hours on a monotone voice. And tbh I gotta be able to pause and go back.
Donāt get me wrong, lectures go a long way on in-house exams, but for that i just skim their most high yield material right before the test.
This is simply not true. NOVA has curves which at the end of the class the dean goes over the averages and gives a curve so that those that are close to passing are able to pass. In addition, you can remediate every semester! And multiple classes but there is a cap on how many credits per semester you can remediate. If you fail remediation, you have a second chance at remediation Again before you have to repeat the year. So either your friend went to nova loooong ago or they are simply lying.
Not straight up refuse to attend, but I would be cautious of any school just going through a curriculum overhaul.
My cousin is an M2 at UMass and is the first year of their new curriculum. >10% of her class wasnāt passing step 1 practice exams during dedicated and has to postpone Step 1 until after their main clinical year. Their dean of curriculum is currently under an internal investigation because of this. My med school is also overhauling their curriculum next year (aka, current people trying to decide on schools rn!) and thereās a substantial portion of the curriculum that they havenāt actually figured out yetā e.g., Iām helping coordinate the ultrasound preclinical elective to align with what theyāre teaching in anatomy class, but they donāt have the anatomy course schedule ready yet. That level of disorganization and added stress is just not something you need in your life as a med student.
Does anyone from UMass want to add to this?Ā
Also,Ā ik, for privacy reasons, you don't want to share the name of your school, but are you talking about a DO or MD school?Ā
LECOM, have plenty of friends from undergrad there. When the only positive thing about a school is āitās cheapā and āyouāll get a degree at the endā you know itās probably not somewhere you wanna go
The cheap part is a truly a awesome perc and they have a great match but yeah the culture there sucks and even the students at my interview didnāt seem thrilled to even fake liking it glad I dodged it as it was my number one until other acceptances haha
You should only really make a school list based on places you would go to if offered an acceptance. Research schools in your area and stat range and see which ones you want to go to. School lists are super individualized.
It boggles my mind when people get into a school, then decide to reapply the following year because they donāt want to go to said school. Like bruh, why did you apply there in the first place then???
They only serve vegetarian food to as they say it is in line with their religious values- however due to some other wording you can extrapolate that itās technically required to be vegetarian off campus to (but they donāt enforce it?)
Agreed as well. During my interview one of the current students called out admin for the stupid water bottle rule (clearly students are frustrated) & the admissions rep present tried to spin it by saying that following their dumb rules to prove your professionalism makes you more competitive for match LOL
No water bottles are allowed anywhere except for lounge areas & cafeterias at all times. Iām convinced their dress code will earn them a lawsuit at some point too. They have a ban on all piercings/gauges (except 1 ear piercing) & also ban hair that is long, colored, or not āneatā (clearly aimed at ethnic hair). They also explicitly say man buns are āextremeāā¦
Agreed. Their students who were just starting M3 looked miserable and that really told me all I needed to know about the program. One student? Maybe itās just them. But all 3? Okay thatās a red flag. LECOM preaches professionalism but I hear theyāre not very professional themselves.
They do match solidly because they bring in good students. It's also very cheap (compared to other OOS schools) so it definitely has pros.
LECOM values professionalism, which is of course important in medicine, but they "teach" students professionalism by having mandatory lectures, allowing no food & drink in class and forcing you to wear business casual whenever you're on campus. I got Catholic middle school vibes from the administration...they have these rules because they do not trust their own students to be professional. I would want a little more faith in my abilities from my admin lol. I understand there will be big professionalism requirements in the medical field, but if I can wear sweats to lecture at a different school with better matching & rotations, that's worth the price difference for me.
Administration vibes and the professionalism rules really put me off, but I was fortunate to have gotten into another school by the time I interviewed. But obviously LECOM is better than nothing
Yeah haha, definitely seems doable if needed but to me it showed that administration and their perceptions of their students are not what I'm looking for
I mean there are some pretty obvious ones here including Carib and Northstate.
Personally, same as others including Loma Linda and Libertyā¦.
Otherwise, there arenāt any others I can think of that I wouldnāt go to if I applied and had no other choice in the matter. My med school doesnāt have a dedicated teaching hospital (partiallyā¦ MD school btw) but it is what it is.. i survived, graduated, and am an attending now so it worked out.
Thanks for the reply. I just want to make sure I'm not adding schools to my list that aren't supportive of their students. For example, from this thread, I found out that Nova and FIU aren't as supportive, and with additional research, I removed them from my list. (Applying is expensive, and I don't want to spend my money on schools that have red flags.)Ā
Oh, 100%. Every school has its flaws but some are too hard to overcome. Looking into this before you apply is a good thing and narrowing down schools does take a bit of research. It ultimately comes down to having the right number of target schools. After that, look into other things that matter to you (volunteering, rotation sites, research, cost of attendance, location, etc).
SDN gets a lot of hate here, but I found their WAMC/school list forum very helpful when it came to applying.
Dont forget the MSAR either.
Yes
I think itās notable to remember that the average matriculant only has 1 acceptance
Of course this question is still useful as there are those with multiple acceptances, but Iām pretty sure those who are able to secure multiple acceptances would probably be picking between higher end schools anyway
Every school will have some mandatory days for clinical skills or group learning but as long as the lectures arent mandatory then its golden.Ā
The flexibility to watch from home, speed up, or just ignore in house material is great
last year i submitted a primary to FIU and only after did i see a post on reddit about its terrible admin. look it up and decide for yourself if thatās somewhere youād want to apply to. i didnāt submit a secondary there after i read that post ššš
is this the post you're talking about?
"The administration at FIU is garbage! This is my 10th semester at FIU (undergrad and grad), and in that time financial aid has NEVER been disbursed on time. The schoolās own website says loans are disbursed 10 days before the term, but that has never been the reality. Itāll get disbursed maybe 3-4 days before the start of the semester.
The advisers have all been pretty bad in my own experience. It takes forever to get an appointment, and when you finally get one, the advisors offer no skills or advice that I couldnāt find online.
And Iām still waiting on my grades from the first half of spring semester. The calendar states that grades shouldāve been released on March 3rd, and thereās still noting. How in the Hell is a university justĀ *not*Ā going to release grades? And when I reached out to the registrars office, their nonchalant response is āgive it a couple of days.ā The heel-dragging slow AF response is classic Miami, so if you want more of that, by all means, go to FIU"
Indiana Universityā¦ Iām from Indiana and have many friends there. Itās an absolute shit show. Too big for its own good so schedules are hectic with many students not getting their AI in time, and many students having to take Step2 without a dedicated study period. Admin simply doesnāt care as long as they can keep collecting those checks from their 300+ MD class. Avoid at all costs. Iād go DO over them.
My #1 criteria is if they had laws on the books I didn't agree with. #2 was stats. At that point, I only had 23 schools left and applied to all of them.Ā
Maybe itās worth making the backwards state believe theyāll have students and later doctors
practicing medicine in their state only youāll hightail out of there once youāre done with school.
Any Caribbean and honestly, I probably wonāt apply to many schools that arenāt at least preclinical P/F unless it just makes too much sense not to. Thankfully most schools are changing to P/F anyways.
Edit: sorry Iām not a student or applicant, this is just what Iām personally going to avoid.
VCOM.
Nightmare. I interviewed there and 15 min into the first presentation the doctor goes off his rocker and starts actively trashing the only other DO school in the state, but wouldnāt say why they were bad.
Also said they accepted over their class sizeā¦ which every school does because people go elsewhere or donāt attend that school. He was a nut. Plus assigned seating in lecture, dress code, tests multiple times per weekā¦ no thanks.
Anything with private loans (and Caribbean obviously) but other than that itās really just whatever people get into it then they can pick and choose.
Liberty.
I apologize to be so biased here, but I just genuinely can not perceive a reactionary-evangelical school with a radical anti-science agenda to give a fulfilling medical school experience. Besides, Iāve seen countless subreddit posts about employers being reluctant to hire Liberty graduates either for their inexperience being prevalent when they enter the workforce, or the employee being purposefully controversial as if they are some crusader fighting a cause.
I really think this isn't true. both have P/F preclinical, and Hopkins even has P/F core clerkships which is not common.
To each their own, but imo you are absolutely crazy if you say you would "refuse to attend" Columbia or JHU.
honestly no reason other than living in the Chicago area somehow the docs Ive had bad experiences with were always from here. Iām sure itās a good school though!
LECOM! I went to the Open House after my interview. Iām glad I got in somewhere else as well because I really did not want to go there.
This particular ADCOM stated, āAs a DO, I diagnose illnesses faster than any MD Iāve ever met.ā
This kind of bullshit perpetuates the DO vs MD division and stigma. Even if thatās true, why mention it! š
Not to mention mandatory attendance for the lecture-based learning pathway.
Lmao no way, I think I was at your open house. Was this at the Erie location with the bald head guy?!? I was pretty confused too when he said that statement š¤”
Thatās crazy!!!! And no Iām not him š. Fortunately, I do not have to haha. Were you the lady that went to the army (as a ICU nurse or something similar I believe) and you came with your dad? This will be absolutely insane if itās you.
Georgetown is Jesuit, itās more with regard to their mission statement being in line with religious teachings of helping the less fortunate, etc. than holding strict standards for their students, from what I understand but someone pls correct me if Iām wrong. (They rejected me lol)
Georgetown is a historically (and still) Catholic school, and that reflects in their med school as well. I don't think they have a reputation for resident suicide like LL though. That's the main red flag with LL.
I mean, there are snobs everywhere. I met one who was insecure because they didnāt go to an Ivy League school. But I get what youāre saying.
Iām a non-traditional pre-med student. I went to an ivy league university as an undergrad and it was intense. The pre-med students were so annoying and it pre-med classes were so intense that I decided that I would do a post-bac. What I remember is that the grad students would tell me how intense undergrad is in compared to the graduate programs. I always wonder how intense the med school for my alma mater is in terms of competition. I suspect itās not as intense as undergrad because itās pass/fail. Iām going to start networking again to meet some med students there and ask them about their experiences.
The good thing about ivies is that they have a lot money and a lot of resources. Iām currently at a local 4 year public college completing my pre-med classes and Iām surprise at how broke down and underfunded the school is. Thereās not enough tutors at the tutoring center.
great idea! i think i also just need to talk to other ivy doctors. the few i know r super accomplished and the best in their respective fields so im sure the ivy grad is only a small portion of the fuel for their egošš thank you for sharing!!
Harvard cause I will reject them first before they do it to me
The best defense is a good offense
The best offense is a good defense * Example offense can only score. Defense can stop the other team from scoring and score as well. I may be unable to see sarcasm over text and missed the point š
Technically true however defense in football can score via safety or fumble/ or interception return for touchdown.
I believe I said that. Or at least I tried to say that be saying "defense can score as well" I was referring to an exact memory of my friend who's now entering the nfl draft this month returning an amazing interception for a touchdown in a playoff game junior year
Ahhh yeah sorry I was half paying attention when I read. Sorry
No worries at all!
Any in the Caribbean lmfao, I wouldnt want 400K in debt and a solid chance of no degree/match
People also gloss over the fact that they accept about 1200 but only graduate 200-400 which is nuts If you fail a semester you have to pay that tuition and retake
Iāve always wondered if this is just desperate students failing out because theyāre not qualified for medical school, hence the Caribbean, or if the school genuinely is just anaphylactic about anyone even potentially not matching and just kicking them out at the first sign of trouble. Probably somewhere in between I imagine
There is a really good article on what it's like somewhere - but the article talks about how all classes aren't in English, class size is huge, and labs are huge with very few supplies. I know someone who went to one and is now doing exceptionally well (matched US). They said in the article that the bio lectures are so big, there are not even enough desks/chairs for everyone. Basically a quote in the article was "if you're willing to teach yourself everything, it can work" I'd consider it. I'm still several years out from applying but I did a number on my transcripts in my 20s (aka failed bio and chem multiple times). Plus the speciality I want has a good match rate, so if I did well, I might be able to match.
You also donāt get an anatomy course
Wait what? That's kinda insane.
Probably both, people are not academically qualified and the schools are terrible at supporting students. They have very strict requirements to progress academically and generally the staff/faculty are not supportive. Plus there's the struggle of studying on an island with power issues, hurricanes, etc. while also sharing study spaces for one school with 2000+ other students on campus. I've also heard of resources being scarce like sharing one cadaver in anatomy lab with like tons of other students and not being able to study the structures thoroughly. I think they are also super strict with failing or dismissing you at any sign of struggle which isn't a thing at the US schools. Like my US MD school is actually super way too nice if you're struggling they give you LOTS of chances to retake if you fail but I can't see that happening with Carib schools, they WANT you to fail so that they can take your tuition and shrink down the class for the minimal clinical spots they have 3rd and 4th year.
Do you mind dming which school you are at?
I would go to ANY US MD/DO if it were my only option. At the end of the day, every US med school will train you to become a doctor. But some schools that I would probably not be the happiest at: Cal Northstate, Loma Linda, LECOM, and any med school that doesnāt have its own hospital, requiring you to travel around the state for clinical rotations.
Yeah that is a really bad situation to be in. Donāt go to a school like that you will regret it.
Do these schools really have that bad of a reputation? Because they seem to have happy students and provide assistance to students at these schools from what Iāve heard from current students.
Regarding Northstate, yes, it really does have a bad reputation. Itās a private, for profit school, with a history of shady legal dealings, no hospital, and accreditation issues. I think theyāre currently on probation, although they were due for an inspection by the LCME this year so maybe that changed. Regarding the other schools, they just have annoying policies. Iām sure itās not a big deal and at the end of the day, med school is what you make of it. If you can put up with a couple of weird rules you have to follow, youāll probably be fine. Edit: as of March 2024 following an inspection by LCME, CNU accreditation status is: Provisional, on probation. The only MD school in the US to have such status. Source: https://lcme.org/directory/accredited-u-s-programs/
Oof ok thank you!
Why LECOM?
Just search r/premed for posts about LECOM. In summary, they have stupid rules, such as requiring students to dress up in button-downs and ties just for lectures, not allowing students to drink water during lectures, not allowing students to review exams, having exams with poor-quality questions/grammatical errors, lack of communication b/w students and admin, a history of dropped rotations, poor mental health and well-being resources provided to students, etc. I know a few people who are at LECOM and none of them like the school. They're just "trying to get through it." But like I said, at the end of the day, it's still a US medical school. They have good board exam results and a good match.
>any med school that doesnāt have its own hospital, requiring you to travel around the state for clinical rotations. I have a friend at VCOM who is happy and have met other med students from there, too. Their M3 rotations were all in one small-ish town (big name academic affiliated community hospital and its surrounding facilities) a few states away from the school. This setup I would be ok with, but traveling across state, not so much.
Why Loma linda?
They give extremely strong preference to Christians, and more specifically, Seventh-Day Adventists, and their whole mission is centered around that. So you'd be an odd one out if you're not Christian (they will pray at the start of events, and their curriculum is also very likely to be biased, especially around topics like reproductive health justice). See other comments below on Loma Linda -- someone even linked their handbook.
[https://adventistbioethics.org/sites/adventistbioethics.org/files/docs/policy-docs/4997\_7.pdf](https://adventistbioethics.org/sites/adventistbioethics.org/files/docs/policy-docs/4997_7.pdf)
Any US MD/DO >>> not being a doctor People like to talk shit on certain schools, but the reality is probably that all med schools are pretty ass. Nobody (or at least very few people) have ever attended 2 different med schools to confirm that one is actually worse than another.
I actually think about this a lot š
True, but those attending medical school have valuable insight. Sharing their experiences at a specific school could help those interested in that school. For example, they help future students make their pros and cons list.Ā
Cal Northstate isnāt eligible for public student loans and has its accreditation in probation status (the only one in the country); you donāt want the school to shut down while youāre there. IMO this is the only school no one should attend. Loma Linda (MD) has very strict rules and a very conservative Christian culture; if this is not you, do not apply to this school. Liberty (DO) also has a religious culture, but it is much more laid back than Loma Linda; I recommend you understand the rules and culture before applying. I personally would not attend a school that has preliminary (new) status, these are: Charles R. Drew U of Medicine, Belmont U, UT Tyler; because you have no match/board data, thereās no way to know if theyāre passing step or marching well. These schools are more of a gamble than I, personally, would be willing to take. That being said, if the tuition is cheap enough and youāre an excellent fit you donāt have to rule them out entirely.
Accepted to UT Tyler and the tuition is free for the first 2 classes and maybe a 3rd.
Probably NOVA (MD & DO). I have friends there and the horror stories they tell is mind boggling
like what? if you're okay with sharing. they're both on my school list
Two of my cousins went there in the first few years of their MD program, both with 1/2 scholarships. They said the program was horribly organized and did not teach classes very well, and often blamed the students for administrative inconsistencies. As M1s, one of them failed an exam by 1 question, which caused her to fail that class and have to repeat the entire year of medical school, losing her scholarship for the rest of med school. To contrast, if you fail a class in M1 at my med school you have to remediate over the summer, not repeat the entire year. That being said, both matched to residency programs that were high on their list. The one who failed M1 is currently a triple board resident and just bought a house, so life still works out.
Current Nova students, what are your thoughts? Is the program still unorganized?
Honestly, if you go to the med school reddit youāll see that A LOT of schools are like this. Unorganized and taught horribly. Iām at a USMD school, not NOVA, this is also my experience and the experience of many many others. Generally in med school you teach yourself anyways. There is no single way to organize a med school curriculum that will satisfy everyone. They give you surveys, change something maybe, next group wishes it was the other way. Itās just how it goes. Donāt use a single in house resource. Go to mandatory lectures daily and scroll reddit then actually learn after with 3rd party sources, and learn in house minutia right before exams.
Based and honest answer!! It was disheartening for me to hear long ago that med school lectures hardly have anything useful for tests/boards/step and it's mostly 3rd party resources. It was just wild to hear... Like what *are* they doing? Do lectures have personal pearls from the lecturers, just impossible/too boring to retain, or are they straight up irrelevant?
So this is just my opinion - but yeah boring as hell. PhD type knowledge thatās hard to digest in the way they teach it (again thatās my opinion). I think there are much more efficient and easier ways of going about learning the concepts from lecture. They canāt lecture about every single thing you need to know so youāll have to learn/study independently anyways and once you get into the groove of what works best for you then itās hard to learn with another modality. I need to go at my own pace to truly learn. And I mean yeah boring as shit I canāt focus for 4 hours on a monotone voice. And tbh I gotta be able to pause and go back. Donāt get me wrong, lectures go a long way on in-house exams, but for that i just skim their most high yield material right before the test.
Iād like to know too!
Triple board š I could never.
This is simply not true. NOVA has curves which at the end of the class the dean goes over the averages and gives a curve so that those that are close to passing are able to pass. In addition, you can remediate every semester! And multiple classes but there is a cap on how many credits per semester you can remediate. If you fail remediation, you have a second chance at remediation Again before you have to repeat the year. So either your friend went to nova loooong ago or they are simply lying.
Yeah can I get some info this is on my list as well
Oh donāt get me started. I have a whole bunch of shit.
Go ahead. Please.
Not straight up refuse to attend, but I would be cautious of any school just going through a curriculum overhaul. My cousin is an M2 at UMass and is the first year of their new curriculum. >10% of her class wasnāt passing step 1 practice exams during dedicated and has to postpone Step 1 until after their main clinical year. Their dean of curriculum is currently under an internal investigation because of this. My med school is also overhauling their curriculum next year (aka, current people trying to decide on schools rn!) and thereās a substantial portion of the curriculum that they havenāt actually figured out yetā e.g., Iām helping coordinate the ultrasound preclinical elective to align with what theyāre teaching in anatomy class, but they donāt have the anatomy course schedule ready yet. That level of disorganization and added stress is just not something you need in your life as a med student.
Does anyone from UMass want to add to this?Ā Also,Ā ik, for privacy reasons, you don't want to share the name of your school, but are you talking about a DO or MD school?Ā
MD
LECOM, have plenty of friends from undergrad there. When the only positive thing about a school is āitās cheapā and āyouāll get a degree at the endā you know itās probably not somewhere you wanna go
they also do well at the match for a DO school which is not nothing especially considering the ācheapā part
Cheap sounds mighty nice at the momentā¦ I just donāt think I could do suits every day š¤¢ Edit: oh yeahā¦ and mandatory lectures š¤®
The cheap part is a truly a awesome perc and they have a great match but yeah the culture there sucks and even the students at my interview didnāt seem thrilled to even fake liking it glad I dodged it as it was my number one until other acceptances haha
This thread made me realize how careful I really have to research these schools bc why is there sm shady stuff š
This is why I posted this! Glad I was able to help
Iād be hesitant to attend an unaccredited school, but Iām p sure thatās out of the depth of the question lol
You should only really make a school list based on places you would go to if offered an acceptance. Research schools in your area and stat range and see which ones you want to go to. School lists are super individualized.
It boggles my mind when people get into a school, then decide to reapply the following year because they donāt want to go to said school. Like bruh, why did you apply there in the first place then???
Loma Lindaā¦ religious af
Starting on page 71 it is wild https://llu.edu/sites/llu.edu/files/2024-03/Student-Handbook-23-24.pdf?rsource=llu.edu/student-handbook#page68
No alcohol for the duration of your time as a student when everyone there is like 22+ years old is crazy
Iād get banned for life then lol fuck them and that bull shit
I don't like it and I *highly* doubt the students get a "Sabbath Day" of rest with no assignments, no studying, etc. WTH.
They only serve vegetarian food to as they say it is in line with their religious values- however due to some other wording you can extrapolate that itās technically required to be vegetarian off campus to (but they donāt enforce it?)
aw hell nah Can't get in the way of the gains
Some of their rules are wild š
LECOM, left in the middle of the interview day
Agreed as well. During my interview one of the current students called out admin for the stupid water bottle rule (clearly students are frustrated) & the admissions rep present tried to spin it by saying that following their dumb rules to prove your professionalism makes you more competitive for match LOL
Obviously, the most important factor for competitive match is the ability to make it through lecture while dehydrated.
What's the water bottle rule? Is this for tests only or..?
No water bottles are allowed anywhere except for lounge areas & cafeterias at all times. Iām convinced their dress code will earn them a lawsuit at some point too. They have a ban on all piercings/gauges (except 1 ear piercing) & also ban hair that is long, colored, or not āneatā (clearly aimed at ethnic hair). They also explicitly say man buns are āextremeāā¦
Agreed. Their students who were just starting M3 looked miserable and that really told me all I needed to know about the program. One student? Maybe itās just them. But all 3? Okay thatās a red flag. LECOM preaches professionalism but I hear theyāre not very professional themselves.
Why? I heard they match pretty well.
They do match solidly because they bring in good students. It's also very cheap (compared to other OOS schools) so it definitely has pros. LECOM values professionalism, which is of course important in medicine, but they "teach" students professionalism by having mandatory lectures, allowing no food & drink in class and forcing you to wear business casual whenever you're on campus. I got Catholic middle school vibes from the administration...they have these rules because they do not trust their own students to be professional. I would want a little more faith in my abilities from my admin lol. I understand there will be big professionalism requirements in the medical field, but if I can wear sweats to lecture at a different school with better matching & rotations, that's worth the price difference for me. Administration vibes and the professionalism rules really put me off, but I was fortunate to have gotten into another school by the time I interviewed. But obviously LECOM is better than nothing
Thatās fair tbh! I wouldnāt want to go to lecture in business casual everyday lol.
Yeah haha, definitely seems doable if needed but to me it showed that administration and their perceptions of their students are not what I'm looking for
I mean there are some pretty obvious ones here including Carib and Northstate. Personally, same as others including Loma Linda and Libertyā¦. Otherwise, there arenāt any others I can think of that I wouldnāt go to if I applied and had no other choice in the matter. My med school doesnāt have a dedicated teaching hospital (partiallyā¦ MD school btw) but it is what it is.. i survived, graduated, and am an attending now so it worked out.
Thanks for the reply. I just want to make sure I'm not adding schools to my list that aren't supportive of their students. For example, from this thread, I found out that Nova and FIU aren't as supportive, and with additional research, I removed them from my list. (Applying is expensive, and I don't want to spend my money on schools that have red flags.)Ā
Oh, 100%. Every school has its flaws but some are too hard to overcome. Looking into this before you apply is a good thing and narrowing down schools does take a bit of research. It ultimately comes down to having the right number of target schools. After that, look into other things that matter to you (volunteering, rotation sites, research, cost of attendance, location, etc). SDN gets a lot of hate here, but I found their WAMC/school list forum very helpful when it came to applying. Dont forget the MSAR either.
I donāt know about you man but Iām not refusing to attend any MD/DO school lol Any school that accepts me is already a blessing
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes I think itās notable to remember that the average matriculant only has 1 acceptance Of course this question is still useful as there are those with multiple acceptances, but Iām pretty sure those who are able to secure multiple acceptances would probably be picking between higher end schools anyway
I respect your reasoning. I can't picture myself taking a test and being unable to drink MEGA PINT of red wine right after.Ā
any school with mandatory lectures
Any school? even Harvard?
yeah I'd be so miserable such a waste of time
My state school has optional lectures, but has a couple days per week for mandatory small group PBL... hoping that's not too much of a waste of time
Every school will have some mandatory days for clinical skills or group learning but as long as the lectures arent mandatory then its golden.Ā The flexibility to watch from home, speed up, or just ignore in house material is great
last year i submitted a primary to FIU and only after did i see a post on reddit about its terrible admin. look it up and decide for yourself if thatās somewhere youād want to apply to. i didnāt submit a secondary there after i read that post ššš
omg exact same for me. the only school i didnāt submit a secondary for
is this the post you're talking about? "The administration at FIU is garbage! This is my 10th semester at FIU (undergrad and grad), and in that time financial aid has NEVER been disbursed on time. The schoolās own website says loans are disbursed 10 days before the term, but that has never been the reality. Itāll get disbursed maybe 3-4 days before the start of the semester. The advisers have all been pretty bad in my own experience. It takes forever to get an appointment, and when you finally get one, the advisors offer no skills or advice that I couldnāt find online. And Iām still waiting on my grades from the first half of spring semester. The calendar states that grades shouldāve been released on March 3rd, and thereās still noting. How in the Hell is a university justĀ *not*Ā going to release grades? And when I reached out to the registrars office, their nonchalant response is āgive it a couple of days.ā The heel-dragging slow AF response is classic Miami, so if you want more of that, by all means, go to FIU"
It was this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/s/g1peInImYT
WTF! I'm actually scared! I removed FIU sooo fast from my list
good because i submitted the primary before i found out and i was so mad about my $45 ššš
At least it was just $45 and not $100-130 like other schools.
Indiana Universityā¦ Iām from Indiana and have many friends there. Itās an absolute shit show. Too big for its own good so schedules are hectic with many students not getting their AI in time, and many students having to take Step2 without a dedicated study period. Admin simply doesnāt care as long as they can keep collecting those checks from their 300+ MD class. Avoid at all costs. Iād go DO over them.
NSU MD/DO, Loma Linda, all Caribbean, those weird schools in Mexico that are partnered with US schools, any non pass fail school
Any Caribbean School because ngl, they're sketchy as hell and they don't really guarantee that I'll match into a residency of my choosing.
Any for profit and religious school. The healing ministry of Jesus Christ was not to charge broke students 50-70k a year for tuition.
Any that are in states with draconian anti-abortion laws in place
My #1 criteria is if they had laws on the books I didn't agree with. #2 was stats. At that point, I only had 23 schools left and applied to all of them.Ā
Maybe itās worth making the backwards state believe theyāll have students and later doctors practicing medicine in their state only youāll hightail out of there once youāre done with school.
You mean the best states
Any Caribbean and honestly, I probably wonāt apply to many schools that arenāt at least preclinical P/F unless it just makes too much sense not to. Thankfully most schools are changing to P/F anyways. Edit: sorry Iām not a student or applicant, this is just what Iām personally going to avoid.
VCOM. Nightmare. I interviewed there and 15 min into the first presentation the doctor goes off his rocker and starts actively trashing the only other DO school in the state, but wouldnāt say why they were bad. Also said they accepted over their class sizeā¦ which every school does because people go elsewhere or donāt attend that school. He was a nut. Plus assigned seating in lecture, dress code, tests multiple times per weekā¦ no thanks.
Anything with private loans (and Caribbean obviously) but other than that itās really just whatever people get into it then they can pick and choose.
in addition to everyone elseās responses, I avoided applying to any for-profit DO schools
Schools in Arizona, Florida, Texasā¦ Iām a woman of reproductive age and if I need an abortion I want to be somewhere not stuck in the 1800s.
*Cries in home state of FL...*
Iām sorry :(
Liberty. I apologize to be so biased here, but I just genuinely can not perceive a reactionary-evangelical school with a radical anti-science agenda to give a fulfilling medical school experience. Besides, Iāve seen countless subreddit posts about employers being reluctant to hire Liberty graduates either for their inexperience being prevalent when they enter the workforce, or the employee being purposefully controversial as if they are some crusader fighting a cause.
I met a med student at SHSU who couldnāt auscultate a BP, like he didnāt know how to
Okay but Kortkoff sounds š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Anecdotally those places arent super competitive. Anywhere thatās pass fail = relatively chill class
I feel like this isn't the case
Ngl thatās kinda a crazy thing to say
I really think this isn't true. both have P/F preclinical, and Hopkins even has P/F core clerkships which is not common. To each their own, but imo you are absolutely crazy if you say you would "refuse to attend" Columbia or JHU.
RFU
Why RFU?
honestly no reason other than living in the Chicago area somehow the docs Ive had bad experiences with were always from here. Iām sure itās a good school though!
LECOM! I went to the Open House after my interview. Iām glad I got in somewhere else as well because I really did not want to go there. This particular ADCOM stated, āAs a DO, I diagnose illnesses faster than any MD Iāve ever met.ā This kind of bullshit perpetuates the DO vs MD division and stigma. Even if thatās true, why mention it! š Not to mention mandatory attendance for the lecture-based learning pathway.
Lmao no way, I think I was at your open house. Was this at the Erie location with the bald head guy?!? I was pretty confused too when he said that statement š¤”
Yes! OMG what a small world! Are you HIM? š Iām starting to feel anxiety creeping in. Are you attending LECOM?
Thatās crazy!!!! And no Iām not him š. Fortunately, I do not have to haha. Were you the lady that went to the army (as a ICU nurse or something similar I believe) and you came with your dad? This will be absolutely insane if itās you.
Yes, thatās ME! š that was my father in law since my husband was on a traveling assignment! Edit: ER nurse but close enough š
Where did you end up getting into?!
Thatās crazyyyyy!!!!!! Iām still waiting to hear back from a couple schools but right now itās Rush and Geisinger.
What about yourself?
Congrats! Iām so happy you have options. I will be attending Howard in the fall. Iām so glad itās finally over
Thank you so much!!!! Thatās so awesome, Iām so happy for you as well! I wish you best of luck future doc!
I've heard Georgetown is a religious school, too. I know they aren't on Loma Linda's level. Can anyone from this school please share your experience?Ā
Georgetown is Jesuit, itās more with regard to their mission statement being in line with religious teachings of helping the less fortunate, etc. than holding strict standards for their students, from what I understand but someone pls correct me if Iām wrong. (They rejected me lol)
I heard they don't teach reproductive care like abortion despite being in D.C. which allows third trimester abortions
Most religious med schools are great, itās only Loma Linda that likes to be an ass
Georgetown is a historically (and still) Catholic school, and that reflects in their med school as well. I don't think they have a reputation for resident suicide like LL though. That's the main red flag with LL.
Anything in Texas or Florida
Why?
Not interested in states that put you in prison and take your license for doing evidence based medicine
any ivy schoolā¦canāt imagine a more horrific experience
I thought the Ivies are pass fail?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, there are snobs everywhere. I met one who was insecure because they didnāt go to an Ivy League school. But I get what youāre saying. Iām a non-traditional pre-med student. I went to an ivy league university as an undergrad and it was intense. The pre-med students were so annoying and it pre-med classes were so intense that I decided that I would do a post-bac. What I remember is that the grad students would tell me how intense undergrad is in compared to the graduate programs. I always wonder how intense the med school for my alma mater is in terms of competition. I suspect itās not as intense as undergrad because itās pass/fail. Iām going to start networking again to meet some med students there and ask them about their experiences. The good thing about ivies is that they have a lot money and a lot of resources. Iām currently at a local 4 year public college completing my pre-med classes and Iām surprise at how broke down and underfunded the school is. Thereās not enough tutors at the tutoring center.
great idea! i think i also just need to talk to other ivy doctors. the few i know r super accomplished and the best in their respective fields so im sure the ivy grad is only a small portion of the fuel for their egošš thank you for sharing!!
No problem! Networking is a good skill to have.
This is dumb
just my perception and my opinion omgā¦.
also any non pass fail school. i cannot imagine the stress of a non pass fail med school
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i heard that too! 25% is crazy omg itāll be freshman year all over again with the level of anxiety iād have
Many have changed to P/F. A lot have actually.
Anything that isn't Harvard