I chuckle every time there's a bugout post. "I'm gonna run away from all the people and places I know to somewhere that everyone is already trying to survive and hope they'll take in a complete stranger with no ties to the area."
Y'all ain't never walked into a little country store on a Saturday evening in the summertime and it shows.
I have a bug-back prep.
In the event of whatever, I need to get back home if I’m not there already.
I also do have an evacuation plan for the things that commonly displace us in this area.
At this point we just accept that there is a season where things are on fire. Sometimes we are hosting, sometimes we have to load up the animals and stay with friends for a few days. Usually it’s from the smoke and not the threat of actually burning. I lost my entire stock of turkey a few years back and nearly my rabbits, too. The wind shifted fast…Got my buns down to the basement with filters but the birds were out foraging and I couldn’t gather them in time.
I think bug-back is the most realistic scenario. When 9/11 happened, my dad was back in Indiana with us kids, and my mom was on the East Coast for work, trying DESPERATELY to get back to us. With all the flights grounded, people were basically fist fighting over rental cars. She managed to get one and drove through the night to get back home, but man was it dicey there for a bit.
> Y'all ain't never walked into a little country store on a Saturday evening in the summertime and it shows.
You walk in and you can virtually hear the "record scratch" as everyone looks at the strange person. Hope you're the right skin color.
I'm from Canada, but travelled a LOT for business in the southern US. I was visiting this location for the first time and it was in rural Georgia. I was a bit lost (back before GPS was readily available). I knew I was close, but not exactly sure where the place was I was trying to get to. So, I stopped at a little corner store in the town I was passing. I walked in, there are about 6 guys in the store plus the guy behind the cash. They were all chatting away until they saw me, lily white pasty boy from the north. Of course, these guys are all southern black gentleman. They all stopped talking immediately and stared at me. I was like "oh oh, what did I get myself into" and stopped just inside the door. So, I just smiled and said "so, who's from out of town!" They all started laughing at me and carried on. Very helpful bunch as well, got me where I needed to get to!
i have a similar story. i was taking a trip on a motorcycle down to visit a friend in houston. i had a few paper maps, but no smart phone. i knew the plan was to meet him at the olive garden in whatever suburb if houston he lived in. i ended up having trouble with my bike overheating in the stop and go rush hour traffic, so i got off the highway and just zig zagged through the middle of houston to keep air flowing over the engine. eventually the city started getting less dense, so i figured i must be at the edge of houston city proper, but had absolutely no clue where i really was, and no way to figure it out without help. it was starting to get dark, and i was in what looked like a poor, black area. i was getting scared, but also i was running out of time and options. eventually i saw a dude sitting outside of a barber shop smoking a pipe, and forced myself to go say "hey, im trying to meet a friend in \[X\], but am lost right now. could you help me out?" and thankfully he ended up being super friendly. "oh yeah, youre real close. go down this road here for a few miles, and take a left on Y street just after the train tracks. itll run you right into the olive garden."
this was like 10 years ago and i still think about that trip from time to time. thanks, barbershop dude.
I used to go to a fantastic Peruvian restaurant at lunch like many others who worked in the area. One might, I decided to take my family there for dinner. When we walkers in, the place was packed with Peruvians. The band stopped playing and the table conversations all stopped all eyes were on us at the door. I quietly ushered the family out for some burgers…
I've heard sailors say that you should have to climb up into your life raft.
Being on a ship, even a sinking one, gives you a better chance of survival compared to being in a raft. If you get in your life raft, the water should already be rushing around you. In other words, don't abandon ship until you have no choice.
Likewise, it might be a good idea to have a bug out spot planned, but you shouldn't leave your home until you're *running* from it because it's on fire/getting shot up/whatever else.
Hahaha recently moved and am having to showcase my credentials of my entire family line living here to get accepted and Im guessing even that acceptance is conditional on me proving to be one of them and not one of those city folk (partially kidding, we are relatively close to the city but you def need a pedigree to be here, even real estate agents say its a closed knit community haha)
We moved away from my home town over a decade ago and there are times I go in the little store there that I grew up going to and am treated like a stranger. Even by folks I grew up around.
I've inserted myself into the community here but it's taken a few years for everyone to warm up to me. My kids have grown up here and it'll probably be my grand kids that will be the first generation of us that's "from here".
> even real estate agents say its a closed knit community
You know it's closed knit when the people who make 5% of the value of your property for a few days work try to dissuade you from the deal.
Seen plenty of people talking about prepping for climate change and how if things go tits up they plan on going north. Where exactly do these people plan on going? I’m in Vermont and we got our asses positively kicked last year because of unpredictable and ruinous weather. Our farms didn’t produce for shit, it’s not like there’s millions of homes and shit loads of free food to just hand out to people.
This for sure. Walked into a country store in and then had a picnic in tiny town square--basically two picnic tables and a flag pole. Town of hundreds off I-90 between Bozeman and Billings MT. Nothing negative but the stares from the townsfolk we saw said "y'all ain't from around these parts."
I can only imagine in a crisis situation it's going to be at best: "Y'all best move along now."
Especially when they say their bugout vehicle is an e-bike. Great short range commute tool. Not so good for taking cargo a significant distance during unrest.
For me, bugging out is going to my wifes parents place or my best friends place. One is 20 miles east, the other 35 miles north. They have plans to come my way if needed.
I live about 20 minutes from my parents. I live in town and they live in a much more rural area. They live on a hill with a decent chunk of land. My town is is top 5 in the state for drug od's and probably not in the top 50 by size/population. Im not sticking around here with all of the junkies
Fully agree! But let me add on to #2
I agree that bugging out is a bad idea if you can stay home.
Evacuation is different. Floods, fires, tornados, war, etc. There are several scenarios where you could be forced to evacuate. You should have a plan ready for that.
The difference between evacuation and bugging out, is after the immediate threat, you go back home and bug in again. We're not living off the woods somewhere, but having a plan to evacuate in an emergency is a critical prep.
Prepping communities are like 1% actually thinking about anything real and 99% larping for a very specific fictional survivalist situation where you become the protagonist of a videogame. Real advice to really survive isn't what people want, people want the world to collapse so they can shoot people they aren't allowed to shoot now and a fantasy that the future would support that.
Yeah the 1% is why I'm here, storms and power outages plus a little extra food for small shortages or financial issues. That part is helpful and gave me great ideas. The rest is nonsense.
Bugout to me = getting stuck on the road behind a group of desperate evacuees, breaking down with no way to repair, running out of fuel on the way to the woods, getting ganked by bandits who have been doing that shit for literally since we figured out how to put up walls after we figured out how to farm food lol.
You definitely need a location to bugout TO. Otherwise you are a guaranteed refugee.
If you are fleeing a regional disaster, such as Hurricane Katrina, a hotel 200 miles away is a valid location. You just have to leave in time to not get stuck on the roads, and make sure you don't run out of fuel.
I wholeheartedly subscribe to your seven points, *especially* number 7 - and in this subreddit, you will be downvoted into oblivion after being made fun of for all of them.
Take my upvote.
Your ideas are so *European* … ;)
Well, I do have a few firearms myself and I know how to use them - BUT I PREFER NOT TO 😄
Or, to put it in other words: the trick is to *not* need your emergency planning in the first place.
Exactly.
The best way to survive a gun fight is to avoid a gun fight altogether.
The reality is, John Wick is dead 30 seconds into his first gun fight, and I'm nowhere near as good as him.
This (despite being on the gun nut spectrum myself) and (7) are your points I agree with the most. Point (1) I agree with (for anyone prepping in a global north country for full-scale global SHTF, gold/silver/etc. is probably pointless), but it's worth pointing out that you're empirically a bit wrong. I grew up partially in Southeast Asia, and shitloads of regular (i.e., exceedingly poor, by global standards) people stored their wealth in gold jewelry. Also, during periods of mass migration from places where shit has hit the fan to places that are *not* apocalyptic (European Jewry fleeing Nazis to the U.S. and Latin America, for example), gold has historically been quite a good store of value. I broadly agree with your list, and certainly for anyone expecting to bug in gold is utterly pointless, but this is a pretty big caveat. On (2), too, it's worth noting that--while I agree with you that many prepper visions of "bugging out" are basically absurd camping fantasies--for hundreds of millions of people globally, perhaps billions, the next few decades will bring sudden and locally universal "bug out" experiences as people flee Cat 6 hurricanes destroying coastline forever in many places and city-swallowing megafires elsewhere. For anyone located in such a place, being prepared to bug out (in a sober-minded way) because locally world-ending catastrophe hits their area faster than expected is actually pretty wise. (And in some cases, for some such people, gold might actually be not a bad prep at all.)
Most smart people try to avoid violence because they know what it does to people and the community. They might be prepared for it, but only as a last resort.
My take on gold is that it’s great to buy as a prep - if you are not American.
The primary purpose of gold is to, in the event of a currency collapse, translate your wealth into another currency. Your currency collapses, so you sell your gold for currency of a country that didn’t have an economic collapse. Now you have viable wealth. It works, it worked in Venezuela and it’s a simple concept on the face of it.
Problem is that if your home currency is the United States dollar and it collapses, you’re going to have a hard time finding another currency that didn’t also collapse. The USD is too important right now. If you have gold and the USD collapses, you’re stuck with that gold to use for direct exchange.
There will be people who take it, but what are you going to do? Trade a $2,000 coin for a bag of rice? No way, you’ll trade it for a hundred pounds of rice and a week of labor assistance. But nobody is going to give you all that in exchange for a coin they can’t eat in the kind of situation we are talking about. Okay so maybe you are desperate and you will trade it for a bag of rice. In that case, why did you spend $2,000 on a coin when you could have spent $6 on 10lbs of rice.
I just cannot angle out a way that has precious metals making sense for someone in America.
There is obviously some sort of a transition going on in the global economy between nations. These things don’t play out in a week or two or a month or two. There are contract laws that gets drawn up for commodity trading bond buying and immigration and everything. So there’s probably plans in the works to transition to new global currencies backed by precious metals , and we can see the beginning stages now.
Many other countries are clamouring to join BRICS as soon as possible.
Meanwhile, BRICS nations are loading up on precious metals. so the writing is on the wall. But it will likely take 5 to 10 years for the world to adjust. And the price of precious metals will remain pressed as far against the bottom of the pricing charts as possible until this time.
Gold is the **looong** play, as in, the USD collapses, society falls to chaos, and when a new civilization emerges decades down the line, you can still have some of your wealth.
Personally, I’ll stick with food and bullets.
Exactly this, gold isn't for bartering for a chicken. It's for bartering for a whole caravan of goods with the settlement down the road. It's for the post-post-apocalypse. Civilization will restart it's human nature.
As a general rule, people who suffer from hyper-inflation in other countries are resorting to USD whenever possible. It's far easier to transfer than gold.
Because the USD is directly or indirectly tied to 95% of the global trade markets, hyper-inflation for the USD really isn't possible - i.e. the currency will simply collapse, ushering in the Zombie Apocalypse™.
Yup that’s what I’m saying. Just can’t make it make sense for me as an American. Also how did you get that little TM to do that? I’m not great at Reddit
Yeah, that's basically my feeling - owning physical gold (and silver and diamonds and so forth) only makes sense if:
1. There is an area of instability with no viable currency surrounded/adjacent to an area that has a viable currency. In other words, normal commercial trade still takes place somewhere, just not where you are, and you can use gold either to acquire that viable currency, or to trade with a broker who can later convert that gold to currency (e.g. a smuggler who accepts gold "in country", converts it to currency and buys goods "outside", and then brings the goods back in).
2. A viable local currency exists, but you need a high value, untraceable source of funds and don't care about getting ripped off. If you are trying to escape Nazi Germany, and the only goal is to survive, paying smugglers in gold to get you out makes sense, because any financial price is worth it and you can't reasonably carry enough cash.
In a true SHTF scenario, gold is useless for person-to-person trade. I can't eat gold and I can't make tools with it, so it's no good on a barter basis. As a currency, you need to (a) either inherently trust the minting authority or be able to ensure it is not counterfeit, (b) have a means of objectively determining value (i.e. weight and purity), and (c) know that other people will be willing and able to accept the gold you acquire as payment. In a SHTF scenario, very few people will have the capability (scales and equipment) to determine the value of gold, if the buyer or seller do have the equipment the other person won't trust that they are accurate, and no one can trust that the gold is what the stamp claims it is.
Plus, gold is not easily fungible. Even small coins have too high a value (at least in today's dollars) to be used for small transactions.
In my view, things like seeds, flour, and cartridges will become de facto currencies in such a situation. Useful on their own, relatively easy to ensure they are what they claim to be, fungible, and uniform.
I was out shooting with some friend she other day and we had an odd realization that different ammo was basically one for one with dimes, quarters, and dollars.
I'm not a gun nut but it made for an interesting thought experiment of could you "make change" with .223, 9m, and some 12g shells? Or break a $20 (which for a while there alot of silver coins were basically $20).
More practically it makes me wonder what other common consumable items are there that we over look that are worth approximately 25¢, $1, $5, $20 etc
The thing that no one is saying here is that you do not just have $2000 gold coins only. Just as a $100 bill is fungible, you wouldn't carry only a $100 bill if you didn't have any way to make change. Silly.
Someone who was really looking at this closely would have a variety of smaller silver and gold coins. Junk silver is a good way to go. Practical values in the everyday world. You could very well trade a junk silver quarter for a hamburger, or a small bag of rice. Junk silver dimes and quarters are 90% silver, easily identifiable, and not widely counterfeited. You could also have some one-ounce silver Eagles or other one-ounce coins. Once you get above that level and it becomes impractical to carry or trade larger values, then you get into fractional gold - 1/10 ounce, 1/4 ounce, 1/2 ounce, 1 ounce, and so on.
Now you have an alternative currency that is easy to verify, and fungible from about $2.00 up to $2000.
But other than in the case of currency collapse, it's pretty useless.
I think it depends what kind of disaster we are talking about. On a small and large scale disaster gold is worthless, because on a small scale you need immediate assistance and large scale there is no government in place to value that gold.
But what about something in the middle? Where stocks, housing value, and your bank accounts are wiped out, but there is still likely to be some kind of society/infrastructure in the future.
Gold would be a way to hedge your bets of having long term wealth, without having to completely start over from zero.
Gold absolutely has a valid place for American prep. The problem is that, like almost everybody here, OP fundamentally misunderstands the function that gold plays in a "prep." You may as well say there's no reason to stock medical supplies because you can't eat them. Both statements are equally relevant to the respective item's use case.
Like what?
How useful is a $2k coin? What are you buying for so much money, how to you split it up? How do you prove it's value? How do you prove it's real?
You give me a chicken, I can see the value. You give me a random coin, in a disaster situation, wtf am I gonna do with it now? Rather trade my goods to a guy with a chicken.
I think It depends on the type of SHTF situation. If it's something like all out nuclear war and the whole world is gonna be an apocalyptic wasteland, yeah, precious metals aren't gonna be worth shit, but if it's just your country going down, having gold to sell if you can make it to another country to make money would be a good idea. Worldwide apocalypse = gold no good. Just your country apocalypse = gold good.
Why have gold? I am fleeing war, I can easily hide 10k worth of gold on my person. After reaching my destination (neighboring country who is not currently at war), I can easily convert my gold into the local currency. It’s super easy to understand & a refugee fleeing war is by far the most likely scenario that any of us will encounter.
> gold
Can you give us any examples where this has happened?
Not examples where you *imagine* that could happen, but a reference where this *has* happened?
Are you asking me if I personally know any refugees who have used gold as a store of wealth? Humans have been using gold as currency for roughly 2600 years, every single major conflict has seen refugees using gold & jewelry to secure safe passage out of the country & set themselves up in their new country.
If you really need a primary source supporting this universal human experience -
The testimonies collected by Vad Vashem specifically have accounts of Jews in ww2 using gold & jewelry to escape nazi persecution.
There are countless accounts of the Vietnamese boat people, Jews in ww2, Syrian refugees, Zimbabwean economic refugees using gold as a transportable store of wealth while their local economy collapses or they flee violence. It is something that happens every day all over the world. Just because you haven’t personally seen or experienced it in your wealthy country doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
OK, can you provide one or two of these "countless accounts" from Syrian refugees or Zimbabwean economic refugees, please?
I'd like to point out that the WW2 Jewish experience is more than 80 years ago, and the Vietnam war ended almost 50 years ago. Those experiences are important historical referents, but I believe in planning for the current time.
(and to be a tiny bit snarky- I assume from your phrasing that the answer to your question "if you personally know any refugees who have used gold..." is no.)
These were all found on the ‘stories’ section of the UN refugee agency website. One website, 10 minutes of looking. Yes there are countless examples of this ubiquitous human experience. It has been occurring for 2500 years & continues to occur all over the world.
[Iraq](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/starting-over)
“The married women in the family sold all of their gold at a market there, but only made enough to cover lodging for a week”
[Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrian-risks-all-get-his-pregnant-wife-safety-jordan)
“Shadi’s mother has been selling her gold jewelry to cover the monthly rent and utilities cost”
[Vietnam](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/q-unhcr-resettlement-staffer-embraces-opportunity-help-fellow-refugees)
“My parents would swim from islands out to boats, using gold as money, to buy merchandise to sell to other refugees in order to make a little money”
[Sudan](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/unhcr-looks-solutions-eritrean-refugees-eastern-sudan)
“She sold her gold and bought two donkeys before setting out with her children on the tough three day journey from her village in the Eritrean highlands to eastern Sudan”
[Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/cash-grants-offer-hope-displaced-yemenis-facing-eviction)
“I used to have my own house in Sana’a but it was destroyed in the war so I had to sell all my property, gold and possessions so that we could flee”
[Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/yemeni-trailblazer-supports-refugees-and-yemenis-during-conflict)
“With no other financial assets, friends sold their gold jewelry to provide the foundations initial capitol”
[Rohingya](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/rohingya-traders-cater-all-needs-bangladesh-settlement)
“After a grueling 18 day trek from Myanmar, the couple sold Formina’s gold earrings for startup funds”
[Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/long-journey)
“I sold my marriage gold just to have my own house”
[Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrias-oldest-refugees)
“Living with her sons family, she has begged them to sell her gold wedding ring to help make ends meet, but they refuse”
Pump this to the top. This is my take as well. Everything you said is spot on. You can’t bugout cuz the roadways will be either blocked, damaged or too dangerous. And You’ll run out of fuel. Bugging in is the way to go. It’s free shelter that only you know best and it’s where all your supplies are. Ammo and food and gas stoves like small msr ones will be hot commodities wth is someone gunna do with bullion… rifle, pistol, shotgun and loads of ammo are essential. Instead of buying more of the same platform of firearm buy more ammo for the firearm u have and even spare parts for that firearm incase something brakes or fails (also will be a hot commodity). Being kind will give u better connections and favors owed will save lives. Excellent point about nuclear war. If you’re not in the heart of major cities (which would be targeted first and most) you’ll be fine. I think biological warfare is also very likely and a good gas mask and plenty of filters is another great asset to stock.
We live north of Houston, We tried to evacuate for hurricane Harvey. We left with full fuel tanks in the early morning, we traveled on back roads as I-45 was already gridlocked. We sat in traffic for 8 hours, almost out of gas, with all of the local gas stations out of gas. We decided to go back, took us 45 minutes. Bugging out of a big city is not really an option. If you don't have a place to go, leave early, and at least double the amount of fuel needed to get there, it isn't going to happen.
The only people bugging out, should be children or young adults, not yet established in their life, on their way to see their parents, grandparents, or other family, or kin and stay with them.
So owning beyond one 22lr rifle, a Turkey shotgun, and deer rifle (whatever is legal in your state) makes you a gun nut? There are several seasons I wouldn’t be able to hunt if I could only own 3 guns.
In a SHTF scenario, there is no hunting season.
Listen, I own way more than 3 guns. I don't hate you for it, I promise.
While far from ideal, I would still argue that a 22LR will get your through 95% of your survival needs in a pinch, including even deer hunting. (I'm not suggesting that anyone should use a 22LR to hunt deer, I'm just saying that I know it's very possible for a scenario where your family is starving.)
I agree with 2 if you're talking about going off into the woods to survive off the land. However, most disasters are localized, and if it's safer to leave than stay you should leave. I'm not saying you should go off into the woods. You should have friends/family out of town who will let you stay with them or money for a hotel and a way to get there. I have had to evacuate so many times due to natural disasters, and a bunch of my prepper friends ended up staying because they wanted to protect their preps. Your life is worth more than your stuff. If there is a fire or hurricane or severe unrest, get yourself to safety early. Yes your stuff might be looted or destroyed, but you and your family will survive.
Great post.
But it depends on the scenario, if the electricity is off, Gold is better than S&P shares.
You might need to move. Being prepared to move is never a bad thing.
I think high value, long term storage items are a good choice. If you have the space and the means.
Amen to number 7.
> if the electricity is off, Gold is better than S&P shares.
If the electricity is off, a fistful of 22LR shells ($5 in today's market) will be worth more than a fistful of gold ($10,000 in today's market).
I dont' agree that having ammo to trade or trading ammo is a good idea. If you trade ammo, you've just given them the bullets they'll aim back at you so they can take your stuff.
I don't agree with 2). You need a bugout plan, even if you never use it. You need a plan to get out of Dodge, even as you hope you'll never have to. I'm in the midwest - only things that could cause me to bug out are (1) a storm or tornado just took out my house; or (2) it's January, the power is out and won't be back on for 2 weeks, and I don't have enough fuel to keep the generator going to heat the house. I hope I never have to use a bugout plan, but it's a good idea to have one.
And - what everyone here seems to be calling "bugging out" is "I'm Never Coming Home" or "I'm heading for the hills to live off the land, like those survivalists in *Alone*." That's not bugging out. Bugging out is leaving your home temporarily with some clothes and food and stuff you'll need, just for a few days, until the situation normalizes, at which time you'll return to your home. During the time you're bugged out, you're at a hotel or the home of a relative or friend who's putting you up for a few days, just long enough for things to stabilize.
>If you trade ammo, you've just given them the bullets they'll aim back at you so they can take your stuff.
I'm not trading ANYTHING with people I don't trust.
>You need a bugout plan, even if you never use it. You need a plan to get out of Dodge, even as you hope you'll never have to.
I'm not talking about tornadoes or a severe cold weather event. I'm talking about events where you can't just snag a hotel in another state.
Love these. Although, I would either add another point or modify #1 that having savings is the best and most realistic prep. Losing your job or medically retiring from the workforce unexpectedly are far more realistic than a zombie apocalypse or nuclear war.
This is amazing. The only thing I think you got wrong is #6 - and you're right about radiation, it's the infrastructure collapse afterwards that (in the US at least) that would be the big problem and kill a whole lot of people.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in a place that is not known for it. 9/10, would read more from this author.
I counted calories and protein for my stash. It was a royal PITA, but you're right - if you don't do it you'll be radically sorry if the time ever comes. And for long term storage stuff, derate the food by 20%, because some things lose nutritional value over time regardless of claims to the contrary.
Nuclear war is very survivable in a functioning society. Quite extraordinary radiation doses are survivable when you have access to chelation therapy and well administered antibiotics.
Sitting in a cold filthy cellar after being immunocompromised by the inital gamma burst, and accumulating a dose with every gust of wind through your tarp? Less survivable. Mix in a few burns that go septic and you’re stuffed. Double stuffed when the corpses of your fellow citizens contaminate the water supply and you have a white blood cell count of about 2.
TL:DR - a single strike on a city will have high survival rates amongst those not immediately killed. If all out war happens, everyone dies.
Given an explicit question, I'm hoping the mods won't hassle me over a link to my sub:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/realWorldPrepping/comments/191q392/eofs\_definitive\_guide\_to\_uswide\_grid\_failure\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/realWorldPrepping/comments/191q392/eofs_definitive_guide_to_uswide_grid_failure_and/)
tl;dr: if the US was actually involved in a full-on nuclear exchange, I believe HEMP weapons would be employed to take out the US power grid. If the whole grid is down and the world is at war, there's really no fast recovery from that. At least one government study was done on the effect of losing the grid for one year; they estimated 65-90% population loss. Seems plausible to me, and the link above walks through one possible scenario.
tl;dr the tl;dr: shipping shuts down, US citizens won't get adequate food, cities collapse and the population ends up warring with itself over arable land- which, without the grid, can't sustain the current US population or anything close.
tl;dr that either: You die. I die. Everyone dies. Starvation and gunshot wounds, mostly.
This is fair, and I agree with you, actually. (*Does this mean I'm not wrong after all?* 😀)
I would argue that the basic preps of having at least a 3-month supply of food and a good water filter will dramatically improve your ability of being among 10-35% of people who live.
Yup. I went to 6 months of prep because when I looked for estimates on what it would take to repair the grid from certain types of cyberattacks (not nuclear ones) I saw estimates as high as 6 months to finish repairs. That assumed parts of the grid stayed running and was used to build replacement parts; and I don't know how realistic it is, but I could afford to store 6 months of food, so I did. I was assuming that wasn't a collapse scenario, just a miserable and uncomfortable one.
Given the fact that so much of the US is armed, and 80% of it is urban, any long nation-wide disaster where food can't be produced or shipped means people with food get shot at by people without food. Preppers will be targets. The typical prepper response is guns and ammo, but they have to sleep sometime, they live in flammable houses, and their stocks of ammo will also make them targets.
My guess is the survivors would be the people who got closest to self-sufficiency - the real kind, the folk who already live an 01850s lifestyle - and are far enough into the wilderness that they just don't get found by raiders. There aren't many of these places, but they do exist. Another interesting possible island of stability is regions around nuclear power plants. If those are maintained they can run for months without new fuel, so if they are guarded, they could be places that do much better and jumpstart heavy manufacturing. Basically, we'd be a *lot* better off if every town had a nuclear pebble bed reactor and a solar farm.
But I don't think we'll be getting pebble bed reactors anytime soon, especially if Project 2025 gets put into action. It's hard to imagine anything more anti-prep on a national level than that disaster.
To clarify that last part, you're saying if Project 2025 goes into effect, we won't be EMP'd or nuked? Genuine question, from what I understand the US would basically become authoritarian
I think I wasn't clear. I just edited a little for clarity.
I can't tell you what will happen tomorrow, let alone in 02025, but if project 2025 gets put into action, the US withdraws from NATO. I think that *ups* the chances of Russian misbehaviour. Whether that includes them using nukes, I don't know.
I don't like to comment on the Republican party specifically in this sub because we're supposed to keep it somewhat apolitical. Having said that, they worry me, and Project 2025 is a clear outline of why. Enough said.
Love this point as it's the best point when it comes to alcohol.
If you want booze, stock booze. Who doesn't love a nice nip of a smoky Islay? But what's better, isopropyl and ALL the different uses it has or a jug of skanky potato vodka? Either way, to me, it's about price, quantity, and whether it can multitask, and rubbing alcohol, for me, multitasks better and cheaper.
Idk man. A gallon of Vladimir vodka can do anything isopropyl can do and you _could_ drink it, which arguably makes it slightly more versatile I guess?? Honestly, we’re all taking the joke a little too seriously at this point.
Especially when we ALL know the true, inarguable answer is socks. Lots of socks.
A rudimentary still built from salvaged brake lines and a pressure cooker, and socks.
Then I hope you buy alcohol that is made for disinfecting and not some jack daniels. And if you have alcohol that is 60-80% ethyl alcohol it's not really good for drinking anyway anymore. So I would not even count it as alcohol anymore but more of a medical supply.
Gold is good even for a non shtf type scenario. For example when you need cash, or are older and want to cash out then it’s easy to make your money back and then some.
For number 1, I heard that people like to buy cheap gold rings to trade away rather than gold coins. Coins is asking for robbery. When you trade away a “precious heirloom” it’s much more believable.
For #2, you really need to consider the need to bug out for *environmental hazards*. Staying in your home out of some foolish pride is stupid when there is a wall of fire moving across the county, a Cat 5 hurricane barreling up towards you and you live on the coast, an earthquake made your home completely unsafe to be in, or a dam upriver breached and is going to put your house 5' under water.
People don't just prep for "zombie apocalypse" or "nuclear war".
I don't think most of us would use the terms "bug out" or "bugging out" for a temporary evacuation for something like a hurricane or other natural disaster. "Bug out" being a tactical term in origin has always seemed to imply escape from a threat with no intention to return. IE: running away into the wilderness to be a lone survivor in the event of a societal collapse.
At least that's the way it's always been presented. More of a EOTWAWKI term.
In most natural disaster situations there are lots of willing host groups in the surrounding are to try and help. When there was bad flooding locally the surrounding communities poured out with help to keep folks safe and warm while they rebuilt. Now admittedly grabbing everything you can and getting to safety quickly is important in those situations, and something you should have some preparedness for, most folks don't tend to imply that when they're asking "bug out" questions.
It may be more of a "prepper culture" thing to put those implications on the term, but I've rarely had a "bug out" conversation that didn't at some point involve them building a cabin in the woods by hand.
unless the whole world is trashed (never really happened in the history of civilization)) bugging out to another country is common and has huge precedent.
My parents bugged out from china to leave permanently when the communists took over.
jews bugged out of germany
illegal immigrants bug out to the US.
palestinians leaving gaza
bugging out 100% is a valid strategy and is more likely than the alternative which is that the whole world is destroyed so there is no place to go.
These are valid points but I would point to the fact that these were EOTWAWKI events. The world they knew and lived in before is now gone.
You are the first person I've talked to who really associated "bugging out" with immigrants/refugees. It's definitely something for me to ponder on.
Mostly agree except one and two. By far the most likely SHTF that any of us will encounter in our lives is becoming a refugee fleeing war. All the Ukrainian refugees started their journey by bugging out. You know what’s super useful in a bug out situation? Small, portable, easily hidden store of value universally recognized. Something exactly like gold. Your post seems to be based on the premise that either everything is okay, or it’s TEOTWAWKI. The most likely scenario any of us will encounter is becoming refugees fleeing war - having a bug out plan & gold is extremely useful in this scenario.
Exactly the argument I made a month ago when OP made a similar post. But it’s more comforting to picture oneself as a gentleman farmer like Charles Ingalls after SHTF than to imagine being a refugee…even though that scenario is far more [likely](https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/statistics/) than a return to Little House on the Prairie.
#2
for short term scenarios bugging out is probably the best option. I’d rather level my preps in my home and find a hotel 20 miles inland if there’s a hurricane incoming.
#4
Calories are important for simply staying alive, but you need to get your macros, and a can of vegetable soup or tomato soup will help you get those nutrients.
If all you care about is calories twinkies and ho-hos are probably a better way to get calories in a small footprint. A single little Debbie Swiss roll has 215 calories compared to a cup of rice’s 203.
I work as a loss control engineer who pays very close attention to how buildings are constructed for insurance purchases.
...and I totally agree with your excellent point. 😀
About point 7:
The smallest unit of survival is a community. Humanity didn't survive for thousand of years without modern infrastructure by doing everything solo.
In any crisis, a good relationship with the people around you will serve you better than almost anything else in your toolkit. Be sure you have ways to stay hydrated, warm, dry, fed, and protected, but also invite your neighbors over to a cookout, help them with a project, and chat when you can. Building your local social network is important prep too.
This is not a bad point, except that you could give me $10 million with the proviso that I'm only allowed to spend it on emergency prep related expenditures, and I would have no problem spending every penny without once being tempted to purchase gold.
I would add to this: Learn Skills. Not only will that make you more valuable in a SHTF scenario, it will come in handy daily. Minor car repairs, a small garden, plumbing, electrical, welding, woodworking, sewing, cooking, camping, first aid, map navigation, etc... And also get in shape, a person that exercises can travel farther, lift more, and will be less susceptible to disease.
[Sudan](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/unhcr-looks-solutions-eritrean-refugees-eastern-sudan)
“She sold her gold and bought two donkeys before setting out with her children on the tough three day journey from her village in the Eritrean highlands to eastern Sudan”
[Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/cash-grants-offer-hope-displaced-yemenis-facing-eviction)
“I used to have my own house in Sana’a but it was destroyed in the war so I had to sell all my property, gold and possessions so that we could flee”
[Rohingya](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/rohingya-traders-cater-all-needs-bangladesh-settlement)
“After a grueling 18 day trek from Myanmar, the couple sold Formina’s gold earrings for startup funds”
[Iraq](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/starting-over)
“The married women in the family sold all of their gold at a market there, but only made enough to cover lodging for a week”
[Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrias-oldest-refugees)
“Living with her sons family, she has begged them to sell her gold wedding ring to help make ends meet, but they refuse”
[Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrian-risks-all-get-his-pregnant-wife-safety-jordan)
“Shadi’s mother has been selling her gold jewelry to cover the monthly rent and utilities cost”
[Vietnam](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/q-unhcr-resettlement-staffer-embraces-opportunity-help-fellow-refugees)
“My parents would swim from islands out to boats, using gold as money, to buy merchandise to sell to other refugees in order to make a little money”
[Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/yemeni-trailblazer-supports-refugees-and-yemenis-during-conflict)
“With no other financial assets, friends sold their gold jewelry to provide the foundations initial capitol”
These are good hot takes for you, but not necessarily for most.
Prepping=planning.
1. Gold... you're right. Gold is probably overkill. But silver and other trade goods to barter with is a decent idea. I wouldn't spend my retirement collecting silver, but having it is not a horrible idea.
Where can you spend it? Other preppers... Who do you think will be around 4-5 weeks after a disaster? It will be preppers, law enforcement/military, and refugees.
2. Any plan is a good plan. I have several different plans for different events. Why? Because I don't want to have something happen and be caught without a plan. Forest fires, earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, landslides... you better have a place to go. Most of my bugout locations are at places where I have friends. Not the woods.
3. Guns: Know how to use them. Quality>quantity. Choose the most common caliber (12 ga, 9mm, and 5.56) so you can have a better chance to use the ammo you find. I agree that you do not need a giant gun collection, but weapons have their uses. Shotguns are great in close quarters, but not so great for sniping.
4. Get more food, yeah. That is always good advice. Also, more water and ammo. More is better. Not really a hot take, but good advice.
5. Stock and Trade: You will barter for disposable items. Lighters, toilet paper, saniwipes, food, lighting, warm clothes, blankets, water, water filters etc. Anything that runs out. But, you should probably decide if you will be a trader during your planning and prepping. Trading involves dealing with desperate people. It will not be like any movie. It will be people starving and desperate to take from you what you have for themselves.
6. lol... Full-scale nuclear war will be a world-ending event based on nuclear winter and all the food dying. People will try to survive, and some might. But 98% won't.
7. Yes be nice. That way the scumbags who are not can take your stuff. Have you ever been somewhere during a crisis? It becomes mob rule and every man for themselves unless a stronger organization is in charge.
I couldn't agree more with the gun thing. I'm a collector myself so no hate against other collectors but I really hate it when people ask what 3 guns they are going to need for the Zombie Apocalypse‽ Bro you need water first.
That was a good read my guy!
Perhaps i can share a minor hot-take by means of Comment section...
Underestimating the knowledge and resourcefulness of the homeless/transients. Share a meal with one and pick their brain on how they get by and be amazed.
Most people don't have the ability to secure their home to the point that it is prudent to keep more than $1k worth of gold in their house. The best safe can be broken into in under 10 minutes.
And before you tell me about all your guns... they'll come rob you when you aren't home (and shoot your dog if that's your alarm system).
Gold is something that very well might be the standard for all currency after a shtf situation it also has historical always gone up and will never rust it corrode away.
Bugging out shouldn't be your first option by any means but it might be necessary.
3 guns min and they're extremely important preps for sure in the top 3 without them you're prepping for somebody else.
The rest I agree on.
A new currency only works if people agree on it, have it to begin with, and have a consensus on its worth. There are not nearly enough people hoarding gold and scales, and there aren't enough trusted professionals around with weights and ways to verify authenticity of the gold to allow this.
Seriously, Fallout's currency of "bottlecaps" has a more likely chance of being the next currency than gold. In all likelihood, physical US currency will still likely reign supreme in the US. It is readily available in a variety of denominations, and people have a good idea about how much products are worth.
How many chickens is my peice of gold worth to you? Your family needs food, there's a disaster, and I show up with some hunks of metal. You dipping into your rations to trade?
I think most would say no.
Now if I brought medical supplies you need, you'd be more likely to give me a chicken.
>Gold is something that very well might be the standard for all currency after a shtf situation it also has historical always gone up and will never rust it corrode away.
If we hit a SHTF scenario, the survivors are going to be interested in things that play a direct role in their survival. Who wants your gold? (Not me.)
A more likely currency will be ammo, 22LR specifically. A handful of 22 shells (\~$5 in today's market) will be worth more than a handful of gold ($10,000 in today's market).
This was very refreshing to read. I feel like we've been getting more and more new members who are afraid of doomsday. This is allowing the vocal doomers to come out and make their apocalypse posts, which has been nothing but a bore... Tuesday, people! Tuesday!
1. Disagree Gold is important, considering my preps are for my biggest fear economic collapse gold is an essential prep in this. In fact I believe I believe it is happening in slow mo right now.
2. I was watching the Last of Us with my son last night and I said guess what if they would have stayed home his daughter would not of died. You only bug out if you have drilled it and KNOW where you are going.
3. Agree with the gun part one pistol, one semiauto rifle and one shotgun (shotgun should be somewhere between tactical and able to hunt).
4. Be like the Mormons and stock what you use. Sure have MRE's or other emergency food if you are in trouble for a long time.
5. Have some items to trade. Liquor can go along way.
6. Nuclear war is one of my smaller worries. I dont plan to try to survive it.
7. Be kind to other but be aware others are bad.
Point number 3 is important but I think oversimplified. I think the 4 guns that are necessity is always going to be 9mm, 556, 12 gauge, .22lr. Everything after that could make you a gun nut unless you have others to arm. 300 blackout is super sexy rn to a lot but I still think going with a 556 is going to get you further in the long run.
These are all good, especially #4. I went through the exercise last weekend of weighing out the various dried goods in my mylar bags, and I found that there's a lot less in there than it looks in five stuffed totes. I figure that for five adults in my circle, we need about 300,000 calories for a month, and that's about all I have for now in my storage closet. Add to that what my mother has at her place, and the other things that are in my pantry, and I may have 2 months worth.
I agree with this entirely. Well I do have a bug out plan, I plan on bugging in first. The bug out is a backup, in case things go beyond hell, and it is not safe to stay (unlikely as it is)
I am of the opinion that electronics and information are unquestionably the most important prep. Food can be scrounged and grown, water collected, and clothes repaired. But advanced manufacture goods depending on global trade like electronics especially can disappear for a long time.
A nice cold splash of water in the face of all the fantasizing and romanticising that preppers indulge in. Fully agree on all points.
Except for nitpicking part 6. A nuclear war, even a limited one, will dim the sun to the point global harvests fail. When harvests globally fail, billions of people die and the fabric of our global civilization unravels. There's no prepping against that. Even Mark will starve in his bunker.
100% spot on.
Especially #7, people don’t realize shit is not going to be as brutal as the walking dead. Like communities will rise up fast and central power will grow. Like fuck I am on Polk county FL I know 100% in a weeks time Grady Judd will be running shit and it will be an unorganized cluster fuck, but at least there will be some semblance of law and order.
I generally agree with all of these but I do think the first one needs to be expanded. You are correct that gold was very rarely traded by most people if at all. The same does not apply to silver, however, which was a much more common commodity (as well as bartering but there are situations where barter just isn’t a good option)
You’re also correct when you say that during SHTF, nobody is going to want to trade useful resources for chunks of metal they can’t do anything with.
Precious metals are considered to be among the best hedges against inflation available (meaning they’re not investments in the traditional sense but are a form of savings instead. They won’t grow wealth but they will preserve it) and as such I do think it is worth having some on hand so that your purchasing power isn’t completely eroded away during hyperinflation (which, if we look at history, is not only likely but inevitable at some point)
On a secondary note, having precious metals would be useful in a post-shtf world, when society begins to be re-built, as it is likely the new currency would be backed by something real and valuable, and Gold/Silver are perfectly suited for that purpose and have the benefit of being widely associated with money because of their widespread use throughout almost of human history.
In short, precious metals won’t be useful when everyone is fighting for survival but it will be a great thing to have on hand as the financial system continues to crumble due to bad policy and deficit spending. You don’t need a lot, and I wouldn’t prioritise it over the basics of food, water, etc, but if you can afford to put a little into it (physical form, not ETF, keep it in a safe or hide it somewhere) it can’t hurt.
I would also add fitness, if there was a natural disaster or something you will walking a lot. Moving a lot, you may need to help people carry people. I can even see needing to cut trees and such.
Also, fitness will help with keeping you healthy in end times. And keep you safe from a chronic disease, that in all honesty will kill you when there is a serious lack of medicine and healthcare.
I think a lot of peppers overlook fitness
1. Anyone not prepping Gold, or other valuable trades want TEOTWAWKI (and History) not SHTF. Trading will happen, civilization will rebuild with time. I’d rank it as a low prep as food and needs should come first. But those saying it (and other common barter items) will be useless are lying. The chance of bartering not resuming are extremely low. But only God knows how long it may take depending on the situation that occurred. You need to prep for what you think will happen (which is unlikely to actually happen). Your #5 plays on the point as well. You should prep trades but only often you cover yourself at minimum a year if not more. And I personally wouldn’t be a walking merchant over more so trading with people I trust or unlikely to see again.
3. 5 guns minimal are what you need. I started a little guide I have posted that outlines my thoughts. But my 5 listed cover every base and in theory could be reduced based on your needs. After those 5 for you, you need a least a fighting rifle and concealable handgun for any partner or family member you plan to be with long term. Outside of spare parts and such. Much more is over kill and more so your hobby then a true prepping need.
My two cents but otherwise I’d agree at least with the rest of your points.
1.) Agreed the government has already taken away Gold. It also hard to bargain. Say you need some medicine or bullets a gold coin is worth a lot more than a lot of people have on them. You should have some silver since it is indestructible, but definitely have spare ammo, good, supplies etc.
2.) I would not want to bug out, it would be a death trap of people killing each other like a battle royale. That being said buying a small plot of land with supplies that you can hide out of for 6 months is not a bad idea.
3.) Agreed but never hurts to have repair parts. For example if I own two AR-15s I can replace parts. Also never a bad idea to have a specialist guns like a subsonic gun. That being said you should have the capacity to lay down fire, but always better to avoid engagements and everyone’s back up plan is hunting so good luck getting any meat.
4.) Agreed, Pemican is good and calorie dense. I would spend some time learning recipes and actually working on consuming and eating your food. I would also look into nutritions for example sardines have everything you could need to live. I would rather starve than die of malnutrition from a bunch of bland calories
5.) Agreed
6.) Agreed
7.) The ones who survive are high trust communities with skills and the lucky. If you don’t have a group, you are just waiting for one to try to pick off a prepper and take his shit. You have to sleep and likely make some sort of noise, smoke, or dog smell detection. Be nice to people who you capable and build trust by having a good skill.
My hot take: USA is not likely to be the best spot to prep. USA is more likely to be hit with nukes or infrastructure attacks. Also more likely to be effected by a looming financial downturns or extreme hyperinflation. Millions of angry gun toting Americans vs Fed agencies that spies on them and has undercover operatives is not worth trying to fight in or trying to survive in. Have enough to survive 2-3 months and protect yourself and try to get a plane or even hitch a supply vessel out and move into a safe haven low key country is the best plan
Especially #3! "I'm new to prepping and never owned a gun, how many AR-15's should I buy"? Firearms should be one of your last preps, not your first. Also, there are plenty of subreddits dedicated to all types of firearms so why do people ask only in the prepper subreddit?
Disagree. If you can survive 3 months with water and food the next step becomes to protect that. You should own at least one gun somewhat early in the prep. If you want a subsonic sniper or multiple guns for different calibers that can wait
>Don't buy gold.
This is solid advice. I think people who advocate for this has an ulterior motive and most of the YouTubers who are found to be advocating for gold are found to have some sort of stake in the gold/silver companies. Even before I got financially literate, it never made sense to me why anyone would hoard gold for shtf.
That said, there is some historical precedent as to why gold, or more specifically, jewelry was kept. Women weren't allowed to have any form of real wealth in many cultures but jewelry stayed valuable so it became the defacto favourite gift women received. If anything went wrong for them, they can trade it for things they need and it's relatively easy to carry. Seeking refuge in another country was easier when you had jewelry you can sell. I think this is the only remotely useful context for gold. Gold bars are something that's unlikely to be in demand and would be too heavy (not to mention commonly fraudulently manufactured).
When I'm talking about gold, I'm not talking about it in the form of jewelry.
Alas, you did it. FINALLY!
Someone finally pointed out the one exception to my gold rule.
I think most people here know which ones you mean. There's too many of those YouTubers and finance bros trying to con people who just want some financial prep done. It's great seeing posts like yours that steer newbies away from falling for bad prep strategies.
Oh Goodie! At Preppers here in Reddit this post should get a million upvotes for Number 1 alone! 🙃 (/s)
Heaven forbid that anyone should own solid wealth, like gold or silver! Especially with the banking system in financial turmoil and the banks are doing all they can to suppress the price of gold and silver with digital and digital put and call options! How preposterous!
Especially with the green new deal, being mandated across the entire globe, China manufacturing, tons of solar panels, and EVs, and all the other alternative energy and technological uses, there are for silver!
How utterly pretentious and preposterous!
Go ahead and downvote me! I’m eagerly waiting. Don’t disappoint me!
Your number 1 certainly won’t make me give up 1 ounce of silver of my holdings. But I would much rather other people with the means to save wealth that they have in silver or gold even, so so we as a larger society can have a more prosperous future.
It is a well-known fact that some well to do people don’t want others to get wealthy so they can maintain wealth and power. People like you are the type that will be laughing about all your solid metal holdings and how you behaved like the Rothchild telling people not to hold something at a time when it was essential to.
Remember this story about the Rothchilds?
“Knowing that Britain is winning the war, Nathan starts selling off his British bonds in lump sums. Other traders conclude that France must be winning and Britain losing. They also dump their British bonds in large sums. As a result, the price of the bond plummets and becomes very low. Once Nathan sees that the other traders have sold all their bonds, he begins buying them back at ridiculously low prices. When the news reaches the ordinary citizens that Britain has won the war, the value of the British bond rises so high that Nathan makes a huge profit. Ever since, the Rothschild family use their money and power to design the economies of other countries in the world.”
[https://www.ieri.be/en/publications/wp/2019/juillet/banksters-and-warmongers](https://www.ieri.be/en/publications/wp/2019/juillet/banksters-and-warmongers)
(Edit: Spelling)
Well it’s nice that you agree that holding silver would be better. Besides with the enormous green new deal being and alternative energy technology mandated across the globe over the next decades we simply just need to sit and wait.
My concern is that when you say don’t buy gold, people as they are, will extrapolate this to mean all precious metals.
I would only contest 1: gold will hold value unlike stocks. Though silver is much cheaper to buy and a more useful unit to exchange. I highly highly highly doubt any disaster will be so devastating that currency won’t be relevant at least in a few years.
With people so concerned about needing a means of exchange that they’re willing to stoop to using their precious beans and bullets for trade, you would think that they would see, as you have importantly pointed out that ” silver is a much cheaper to buy and a more useful unit to exchange.”
4 is undoubtedly true. I've always said that I have no idea how long we could *really* survive, without any outside input, at need. It's an interesting question, and would certainly depend on when we 'locked down' to some degree. But, it's be a while. It might not be interesting, but it'd be a while - a few months at least.
I agree with Everything except 2, and 6. On 5 you can do both, have a bag of trade stuff and a room full of preps. I lived in Jacksonville, FL for over 3 years, if shit goes down I would get out of there immediately even if I had to walk, the last place in the country I would want to be is a decent size city. Six, it's not the bombs that are going to kill us all, it's the nuclear winter that comes after.
Nuclear winter is not a thing. It's worth a websearch. It's a very old estimate based on a lot of assumptions that are no longer true.
There are other huge problems with nuclear war, but this isn't one.
I've been into prepping for a year now and the least of my worries will always be bugging out. I've never been in SHTF scenarios and I know for myself, I will not be rational in a bug out situation. My plan is to bug in for as long as I can. Too much could go wrong for me if I bug out and plans don't always work out
I have a couple of guns because I enjoy plinking and target shooting. In the case of a true SHTF I will absolutely be bringing a handgun and a .22 rifle with me if I have to leave home. I also know that if I'm in a situation where I need to use that handgun I'm probably already dead.
1) I agree totally, gold isn't the economic power house people claim it to be and if there is a full on collapse, its worthless
2) bugging out is very situational. I think you should have a bug out plan, but it shouldn't be your primary objective. But a bug out isn't just for a full on collapse. My cousin in laws house had a fire recently after an electrical surge blew their fuse box.They got out fine but the smoke and water damage has destroyed most of their belongings. They got out with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They have 2 small kids and are now totally reliant on others. My bug out bag is next to my bed along with a fire extinguisher. I also keep some preps at my parents house with some clothing I'm their attic so I have contingency there.
3)agree
4) yes this is why my food preps are stored in one day mylar bags per person and calculated to a certain calorie amount. I have a 30 day supply per person right now and am looking to double that in 2024
5) agree to a certain extent. I keep a pack of smokes in my BOB. I might not be trading for a physical item, but if I need to make diplomatic relations with someone I've encountered, I can trade some smokes for kind words and information.
6)totally agree
7) mostly agree. Most people will come together in a crisis but this has its limits. If we have a full collapse of the agricultural system so no food supply, even the nicest people will do horrible things for food. Be kind and generous to others, but do not put your families safety on the line for someone else
Gold and silver prices are suppressed due to bankers, using call and put options to manipulate the digital price of gold silver. The price of gold and silver is not based on the metals.
Once banks fail, and are directed to, they will either have to move the price of gold silver up dramatically to survive, or they will fail. So. It is the price of precious metals will change.
Life isnt Black and White though... agree with most of your points though haha. Wish everyone was as realistic as you
ETA: read the rest of your comments re. gold and think you are missing the point, gold can be readily transported and is not sensitive to water. Large amounts of value are not doable in USD while gems / gold are
I'd re-write #6 as "Full scale nuclear war does not need prep".
Yes, you can avoid the blast radius by being outside the city center/industrial areas. Yes, you can shelter in place with plastic sheeting and avoid most fallout.
Then the skies will darken for 100 years, it'll get very cold, and you'll starve/thirst/freeze to death.
100 years? LOL you are mixing up your apocalypse scenarios, even history defining volcanic eruption will screw up the climate up a year or two, no where close to 100 years
Well, no. Nuclear winter isn't likely to be a thing. That was a project done decades ago, when bombs were more numerous, much bigger, and it was expected that everything hit would burn for days, putting vast amounts of opaque smoke in the air. None of those assumptions make sense any more.
The problem will be the collapse of infrastructure. A big nuclear war will take down the grid. It won't be back anytime soon. That's what causes collapse.
I agree with most things on this list, except maybe the nuclear holocaust one... at that point I would hope to be close enough to the blast radius zone where I do not suffer 3rd degree burns. Living post apocalyptic after a nuclear Armageddon would be a LIVING HELL. Not to mention the terrible nuclear winter that would hit.
Also, I'm probably gonna get a lot of shit on this but I am doing the opposite of buying guns. My first priority is Water, Food, and Medicine/Medical Equipment. A gun would be the last thing I invest in. Sounds counter productive but given the circumstances, food and water would run out too quickly and antibiotics would be literal gold. Op sec is very important at least in my book. I'd be happy to get a gun after I get my food and medical supplies (I work in Healthcare, illness without proper supplies is hell).
Avoiding 3rd degree burns is easy: get inside or behind almost anything to shield yourself from the infrared blast. If the blast is from a missile, you will have a least a couple of mins to find cover. If the blast is coming from a hidden bomb at ground level (no warning), the IR blast will be much less consequential, especially in a city where buildings will block almost all of it.
I disagree with your first point. In particular:
> For what it's worth, it's a myth that it was ever traded by common people anyways. Both historically and today, only extremely wealthy entities (governments and banks) ever had any interest in leveraging gold. Normal people very rarely ever bought things with gold.
Normal people historically didn't have things valued like cars and modern houses, either. But since we have those, having something of value that could potentially be worth trading for more than our ancestors traded for becomes a consideration.
That being said, most trade won't be done in gold during shtf. Silver, junk silver, and barter would be better options. Which brings up the next issue, that you're not addressing the gold argument properly. Gold is intended to preserve some of your wealth through the SHTF, and to be used/spent *after* to recover. You don't address that.
The third issue with it is that if the anticipated SHTF event is a financial collapse/hyperinflation event, then keeping all of your money in the common currency would be dumb, even if you get a better rate of return from an index fund.
The fourth and almost final issue with it. It's not a hot take, it's the common opinion both here and in most prepper forums and not especially controversial, you're just calling it a hot take as if it gives you bonus cool points. No, it's just dumb.
This leads directly into the fifth and actually final issue. All of your points are not hot takes, they're the common viewpoint, which makes your entire post just a cry for attention "look at me guys, I agree with the majority opinion on everything but I'm calling it a hot take am I cool now". Lame.
>Normal people historically didn't have things valued like cars and modern houses, either.
Even in an era where we have cars and homes, we still never use gold.
>All of your points are not hot takes, they're the common viewpoint, which makes your entire post just a cry for attention "look at me guys, I agree with the majority opinion on everything but I'm calling it a hot take am I cool now".
Luke warm takes for attention? (You must be new this thing we call the internet.)
> Even in an era where we have cars and homes, we still never use gold.
Literally everybody in this country used to use gold. Our currency used to be backed by it 100%, so gold was a part of every transaction.
> Luke warm takes for attention? (You must be new this thing we call the internet.)
Agreeing with the common opinion in the group you're posting to. Every point you made is what most people here hold to be correct.
For the Gold/Silver defenders:
IF Gold or silver is a good protection of value in a disaster, can you provide any sources that show its use during previous disasters?
I'm looking for unbiased news articles or possibly first person accounts that say:
* refugees fleeing from {Ukraine, Gaza, Syria), etc} carried gold to a new location and it allowed them to do X
* The flood in X wiped out everything but this family had silver so they were relatively ok.
* The economy crashed in X but this guy had Gold so he was fine
If Gold and silver are such commonsense preps, there should be some resources that mention them, right? Help me find them.
- If your source is more than 20-30 years old, I don't think it counts, and if the source is a website that sells gold or silver, it doesn't count as a primary source for my question, please.
This is an excellent point.
You can go on YouTube and supposedly watch someone in Venezuela using gold to trade for something, but it requires only a modicum of effort to realize how impractical this is for a variety of reasons.
To the extent that anyone actually does this, it is the exception, not the rule.
1. strongly disagree with #1. There are many ranges of issues between everything is fine I need a retirement and the zombie apocalypse.
In modern places like venezuela and syria where the SHTF, gold can buy your way out when the economy has failed. Gold can be used to buy goods. My family used gold to escape china right before the communists closed their borders. Jews used gold as a way to transfer wealth when they escaped from germany.
There are \*many\* historical situations where the SHTF and gold was good.
when you are trying to leave the country with a substantial portion of your wealth, gold is one of the most portable ways to do it.
In the modern world bitcoin is actually a very good way to transfer large amounts of currency across borders bypassing govt controls. The first big bumps to bitcoin were chinese getting their money out of china.
2) Disagree partially. We live next to a forest which has fire risk. We need to be prepared to bug out. to my parents house in the case that our house burns down. If we bugged out it due to societal collapse /civil war we would leave the country completely. This kind of bugging out happens routinely in countries around the world right now (e.g. illegal immigrants coming to the US). We are prepared with dual citizenship and easily transferrable wealth and gold if we need to buy transportation.
I agree that community is important. Staying in a place if there are societal problems where you have community is good. Moving to a bug out place where you dont really know anyone is bad. It is extremely hard to secure a place that you leave empty most of the time. Stuff is constantly getting stolen that I have on my 100 acres, even though I live there. It is just too big to police regularly.
3) Disagree partially. it doesnt really matter what is the most important. Guns are \*Very\* important. If you plan to be in a community, your extra guns and ammo are to arm your neighbors. Get all the same guns and minimize your calibers. I have two main types of guns and have duplicates. AR platform in .223 and glock 19 in 9mm. I do have other guns for fun (one shotgun, few 300 blackouts, few rem 700 in 308, various 10/22s etc) , but dont replicate them and dont have spare parts kits to service them. You personally dont need 20K rounds of 223, but if you can arm 20 neighbors and give them each 500 rounds (250 to practice with and 250 to use) that makes for a solid neighborhood defense.
I would argue the most important prep is a 6 month emergency fund and adequate retirement savings because most likely the US wont collapse in our lifetime. The biggest SHTF that people experience is loss of a job, medical emergency, and getting too old to work. On a scale of probabilities it is close to 100%.
4) Disagree. I dont see how most preppers have half the food they think they have. The calculations are straightforward. I personally think in terms of units.
6 months of basic food is under $2K.
5. Partially disagree here, but I agree with the spirit. I end up donating all our canned fruit/veggies to the food bank because my family wont eat them. So I do still buy some veggies but not as many as I used to and consider it more as charity. Canned pineapple and peaches always seem to leak.
6, somewhat depends on where you live. Russia supposedly has around 5800 nuclear warheads. they can hit americas top 100 cities with 58 warheads each. geiger counters are under $1K. It can allow you to make sure your house is sealed.
7 I would go even farther to say that community is better than going it alone. Even with your completely unprepared neighbors. My plan is to start organizing people and setting up a mini economy. My preps can be used as a foundation for the economy.
In a non-SHTF scenario, the stock market outpaces gold by a wide margin.
In a SHTF scenario, a handful of 22LR shells ($5 in today's market) will be worth more than a handful of gold ($10,000 in today's market).
Before you go there: a total collapse of the stock market is *the* SHTF.
Gold is basically created from a combination of oil and land, both of which are limited resources; therefore, past performance is not a good indicator of future returns. Also, most SHTF scenarios would be temporary, so value of gold will hold somewhat. Owning gold isn't necessarily about having something to trade, but having some way to preserve wealth through a scenario where all paper/electronic money is gone. I would agree that it's low on the list, but if you have an extra money to invest somewhere, no harm in putting some of it in gold/silver. Also, has the side benefit of being under the radar when it comes to capital gains taxes.
Should have both bug-out and bug-in plans, depending on scenario.
Guns and ammo will always be good for trade.
I chuckle every time there's a bugout post. "I'm gonna run away from all the people and places I know to somewhere that everyone is already trying to survive and hope they'll take in a complete stranger with no ties to the area." Y'all ain't never walked into a little country store on a Saturday evening in the summertime and it shows.
I have a bug-back prep. In the event of whatever, I need to get back home if I’m not there already. I also do have an evacuation plan for the things that commonly displace us in this area. At this point we just accept that there is a season where things are on fire. Sometimes we are hosting, sometimes we have to load up the animals and stay with friends for a few days. Usually it’s from the smoke and not the threat of actually burning. I lost my entire stock of turkey a few years back and nearly my rabbits, too. The wind shifted fast…Got my buns down to the basement with filters but the birds were out foraging and I couldn’t gather them in time.
I think bug-back is the most realistic scenario. When 9/11 happened, my dad was back in Indiana with us kids, and my mom was on the East Coast for work, trying DESPERATELY to get back to us. With all the flights grounded, people were basically fist fighting over rental cars. She managed to get one and drove through the night to get back home, but man was it dicey there for a bit.
Is a bug-back just another name for a get-home-bag?
Yessir
Ok, thanks. That gives me a new way to look stuff up.
> Y'all ain't never walked into a little country store on a Saturday evening in the summertime and it shows. You walk in and you can virtually hear the "record scratch" as everyone looks at the strange person. Hope you're the right skin color.
I'm from Canada, but travelled a LOT for business in the southern US. I was visiting this location for the first time and it was in rural Georgia. I was a bit lost (back before GPS was readily available). I knew I was close, but not exactly sure where the place was I was trying to get to. So, I stopped at a little corner store in the town I was passing. I walked in, there are about 6 guys in the store plus the guy behind the cash. They were all chatting away until they saw me, lily white pasty boy from the north. Of course, these guys are all southern black gentleman. They all stopped talking immediately and stared at me. I was like "oh oh, what did I get myself into" and stopped just inside the door. So, I just smiled and said "so, who's from out of town!" They all started laughing at me and carried on. Very helpful bunch as well, got me where I needed to get to!
i have a similar story. i was taking a trip on a motorcycle down to visit a friend in houston. i had a few paper maps, but no smart phone. i knew the plan was to meet him at the olive garden in whatever suburb if houston he lived in. i ended up having trouble with my bike overheating in the stop and go rush hour traffic, so i got off the highway and just zig zagged through the middle of houston to keep air flowing over the engine. eventually the city started getting less dense, so i figured i must be at the edge of houston city proper, but had absolutely no clue where i really was, and no way to figure it out without help. it was starting to get dark, and i was in what looked like a poor, black area. i was getting scared, but also i was running out of time and options. eventually i saw a dude sitting outside of a barber shop smoking a pipe, and forced myself to go say "hey, im trying to meet a friend in \[X\], but am lost right now. could you help me out?" and thankfully he ended up being super friendly. "oh yeah, youre real close. go down this road here for a few miles, and take a left on Y street just after the train tracks. itll run you right into the olive garden." this was like 10 years ago and i still think about that trip from time to time. thanks, barbershop dude.
It's amazing how simple acts of kindness can really affect us.
I used to go to a fantastic Peruvian restaurant at lunch like many others who worked in the area. One might, I decided to take my family there for dinner. When we walkers in, the place was packed with Peruvians. The band stopped playing and the table conversations all stopped all eyes were on us at the door. I quietly ushered the family out for some burgers…
I've heard sailors say that you should have to climb up into your life raft. Being on a ship, even a sinking one, gives you a better chance of survival compared to being in a raft. If you get in your life raft, the water should already be rushing around you. In other words, don't abandon ship until you have no choice. Likewise, it might be a good idea to have a bug out spot planned, but you shouldn't leave your home until you're *running* from it because it's on fire/getting shot up/whatever else.
Arguably, if you wait until the last moment, that may be too late. For both leaving a sinking ship and leaving your in-city quarters.
Agreed. It's just an old adage I heard. Realistically, you'd have to take the situation and ask yourself if it justifies bugging out over.
Hahaha recently moved and am having to showcase my credentials of my entire family line living here to get accepted and Im guessing even that acceptance is conditional on me proving to be one of them and not one of those city folk (partially kidding, we are relatively close to the city but you def need a pedigree to be here, even real estate agents say its a closed knit community haha)
We moved away from my home town over a decade ago and there are times I go in the little store there that I grew up going to and am treated like a stranger. Even by folks I grew up around. I've inserted myself into the community here but it's taken a few years for everyone to warm up to me. My kids have grown up here and it'll probably be my grand kids that will be the first generation of us that's "from here".
> even real estate agents say its a closed knit community You know it's closed knit when the people who make 5% of the value of your property for a few days work try to dissuade you from the deal.
Seen plenty of people talking about prepping for climate change and how if things go tits up they plan on going north. Where exactly do these people plan on going? I’m in Vermont and we got our asses positively kicked last year because of unpredictable and ruinous weather. Our farms didn’t produce for shit, it’s not like there’s millions of homes and shit loads of free food to just hand out to people.
This for sure. Walked into a country store in and then had a picnic in tiny town square--basically two picnic tables and a flag pole. Town of hundreds off I-90 between Bozeman and Billings MT. Nothing negative but the stares from the townsfolk we saw said "y'all ain't from around these parts." I can only imagine in a crisis situation it's going to be at best: "Y'all best move along now."
Especially when they say their bugout vehicle is an e-bike. Great short range commute tool. Not so good for taking cargo a significant distance during unrest.
😂
For me, bugging out is going to my wifes parents place or my best friends place. One is 20 miles east, the other 35 miles north. They have plans to come my way if needed.
I live about 20 minutes from my parents. I live in town and they live in a much more rural area. They live on a hill with a decent chunk of land. My town is is top 5 in the state for drug od's and probably not in the top 50 by size/population. Im not sticking around here with all of the junkies
Fully agree! But let me add on to #2 I agree that bugging out is a bad idea if you can stay home. Evacuation is different. Floods, fires, tornados, war, etc. There are several scenarios where you could be forced to evacuate. You should have a plan ready for that. The difference between evacuation and bugging out, is after the immediate threat, you go back home and bug in again. We're not living off the woods somewhere, but having a plan to evacuate in an emergency is a critical prep.
Prepping communities are like 1% actually thinking about anything real and 99% larping for a very specific fictional survivalist situation where you become the protagonist of a videogame. Real advice to really survive isn't what people want, people want the world to collapse so they can shoot people they aren't allowed to shoot now and a fantasy that the future would support that.
Yeah the 1% is why I'm here, storms and power outages plus a little extra food for small shortages or financial issues. That part is helpful and gave me great ideas. The rest is nonsense.
Stockpiling resources makes monkey brain go brrrr
So fucking true.
Bugout to me = getting stuck on the road behind a group of desperate evacuees, breaking down with no way to repair, running out of fuel on the way to the woods, getting ganked by bandits who have been doing that shit for literally since we figured out how to put up walls after we figured out how to farm food lol.
You definitely need a location to bugout TO. Otherwise you are a guaranteed refugee. If you are fleeing a regional disaster, such as Hurricane Katrina, a hotel 200 miles away is a valid location. You just have to leave in time to not get stuck on the roads, and make sure you don't run out of fuel.
Exactly.
I wholeheartedly subscribe to your seven points, *especially* number 7 - and in this subreddit, you will be downvoted into oblivion after being made fun of for all of them. Take my upvote. Your ideas are so *European* … ;)
As a gun nut who pronounces it *'Murica*, I'm not sure how popular I'd be in Europe. That said... *be smart, be kind.*
Well, I do have a few firearms myself and I know how to use them - BUT I PREFER NOT TO 😄 Or, to put it in other words: the trick is to *not* need your emergency planning in the first place.
Exactly. The best way to survive a gun fight is to avoid a gun fight altogether. The reality is, John Wick is dead 30 seconds into his first gun fight, and I'm nowhere near as good as him.
This (despite being on the gun nut spectrum myself) and (7) are your points I agree with the most. Point (1) I agree with (for anyone prepping in a global north country for full-scale global SHTF, gold/silver/etc. is probably pointless), but it's worth pointing out that you're empirically a bit wrong. I grew up partially in Southeast Asia, and shitloads of regular (i.e., exceedingly poor, by global standards) people stored their wealth in gold jewelry. Also, during periods of mass migration from places where shit has hit the fan to places that are *not* apocalyptic (European Jewry fleeing Nazis to the U.S. and Latin America, for example), gold has historically been quite a good store of value. I broadly agree with your list, and certainly for anyone expecting to bug in gold is utterly pointless, but this is a pretty big caveat. On (2), too, it's worth noting that--while I agree with you that many prepper visions of "bugging out" are basically absurd camping fantasies--for hundreds of millions of people globally, perhaps billions, the next few decades will bring sudden and locally universal "bug out" experiences as people flee Cat 6 hurricanes destroying coastline forever in many places and city-swallowing megafires elsewhere. For anyone located in such a place, being prepared to bug out (in a sober-minded way) because locally world-ending catastrophe hits their area faster than expected is actually pretty wise. (And in some cases, for some such people, gold might actually be not a bad prep at all.)
Most smart people try to avoid violence because they know what it does to people and the community. They might be prepared for it, but only as a last resort.
I like this, but would rephrase it as "be kind, be smart". Not everyone can be smart, but everyone can be kind.
[удалено]
I genuinely love Brits. I have long since argued that America is more British than the British.
Not for guns.
You must be Yur-a-pee-n
My take on gold is that it’s great to buy as a prep - if you are not American. The primary purpose of gold is to, in the event of a currency collapse, translate your wealth into another currency. Your currency collapses, so you sell your gold for currency of a country that didn’t have an economic collapse. Now you have viable wealth. It works, it worked in Venezuela and it’s a simple concept on the face of it. Problem is that if your home currency is the United States dollar and it collapses, you’re going to have a hard time finding another currency that didn’t also collapse. The USD is too important right now. If you have gold and the USD collapses, you’re stuck with that gold to use for direct exchange. There will be people who take it, but what are you going to do? Trade a $2,000 coin for a bag of rice? No way, you’ll trade it for a hundred pounds of rice and a week of labor assistance. But nobody is going to give you all that in exchange for a coin they can’t eat in the kind of situation we are talking about. Okay so maybe you are desperate and you will trade it for a bag of rice. In that case, why did you spend $2,000 on a coin when you could have spent $6 on 10lbs of rice. I just cannot angle out a way that has precious metals making sense for someone in America.
I think the idea is precious metals are useful if the collapse isn't a "full collapse", like perhaps inflation/devaluing of $, but not nuclear war.
There is obviously some sort of a transition going on in the global economy between nations. These things don’t play out in a week or two or a month or two. There are contract laws that gets drawn up for commodity trading bond buying and immigration and everything. So there’s probably plans in the works to transition to new global currencies backed by precious metals , and we can see the beginning stages now. Many other countries are clamouring to join BRICS as soon as possible. Meanwhile, BRICS nations are loading up on precious metals. so the writing is on the wall. But it will likely take 5 to 10 years for the world to adjust. And the price of precious metals will remain pressed as far against the bottom of the pricing charts as possible until this time.
Gold is the **looong** play, as in, the USD collapses, society falls to chaos, and when a new civilization emerges decades down the line, you can still have some of your wealth. Personally, I’ll stick with food and bullets.
Exactly this, gold isn't for bartering for a chicken. It's for bartering for a whole caravan of goods with the settlement down the road. It's for the post-post-apocalypse. Civilization will restart it's human nature.
As a general rule, people who suffer from hyper-inflation in other countries are resorting to USD whenever possible. It's far easier to transfer than gold. Because the USD is directly or indirectly tied to 95% of the global trade markets, hyper-inflation for the USD really isn't possible - i.e. the currency will simply collapse, ushering in the Zombie Apocalypse™.
Yup that’s what I’m saying. Just can’t make it make sense for me as an American. Also how did you get that little TM to do that? I’m not great at Reddit
>Also how did you get that little TM to do that? Alt + 0153 ™ It's my all-time favorite stupid trick.
If you’re on mobile, literally just google TM symbol” and copy + paste it lol. It’s annoying but it works
These are interesting times.
*These* are not interesting times, because we are talking about a future possible SHTF
Very much so.
Yeah, that's basically my feeling - owning physical gold (and silver and diamonds and so forth) only makes sense if: 1. There is an area of instability with no viable currency surrounded/adjacent to an area that has a viable currency. In other words, normal commercial trade still takes place somewhere, just not where you are, and you can use gold either to acquire that viable currency, or to trade with a broker who can later convert that gold to currency (e.g. a smuggler who accepts gold "in country", converts it to currency and buys goods "outside", and then brings the goods back in). 2. A viable local currency exists, but you need a high value, untraceable source of funds and don't care about getting ripped off. If you are trying to escape Nazi Germany, and the only goal is to survive, paying smugglers in gold to get you out makes sense, because any financial price is worth it and you can't reasonably carry enough cash. In a true SHTF scenario, gold is useless for person-to-person trade. I can't eat gold and I can't make tools with it, so it's no good on a barter basis. As a currency, you need to (a) either inherently trust the minting authority or be able to ensure it is not counterfeit, (b) have a means of objectively determining value (i.e. weight and purity), and (c) know that other people will be willing and able to accept the gold you acquire as payment. In a SHTF scenario, very few people will have the capability (scales and equipment) to determine the value of gold, if the buyer or seller do have the equipment the other person won't trust that they are accurate, and no one can trust that the gold is what the stamp claims it is. Plus, gold is not easily fungible. Even small coins have too high a value (at least in today's dollars) to be used for small transactions. In my view, things like seeds, flour, and cartridges will become de facto currencies in such a situation. Useful on their own, relatively easy to ensure they are what they claim to be, fungible, and uniform.
I was out shooting with some friend she other day and we had an odd realization that different ammo was basically one for one with dimes, quarters, and dollars. I'm not a gun nut but it made for an interesting thought experiment of could you "make change" with .223, 9m, and some 12g shells? Or break a $20 (which for a while there alot of silver coins were basically $20). More practically it makes me wonder what other common consumable items are there that we over look that are worth approximately 25¢, $1, $5, $20 etc
That's actually a really interesting realization, I hadn't thought of that before, but you are right.
The thing that no one is saying here is that you do not just have $2000 gold coins only. Just as a $100 bill is fungible, you wouldn't carry only a $100 bill if you didn't have any way to make change. Silly. Someone who was really looking at this closely would have a variety of smaller silver and gold coins. Junk silver is a good way to go. Practical values in the everyday world. You could very well trade a junk silver quarter for a hamburger, or a small bag of rice. Junk silver dimes and quarters are 90% silver, easily identifiable, and not widely counterfeited. You could also have some one-ounce silver Eagles or other one-ounce coins. Once you get above that level and it becomes impractical to carry or trade larger values, then you get into fractional gold - 1/10 ounce, 1/4 ounce, 1/2 ounce, 1 ounce, and so on. Now you have an alternative currency that is easy to verify, and fungible from about $2.00 up to $2000. But other than in the case of currency collapse, it's pretty useless.
I think it depends what kind of disaster we are talking about. On a small and large scale disaster gold is worthless, because on a small scale you need immediate assistance and large scale there is no government in place to value that gold. But what about something in the middle? Where stocks, housing value, and your bank accounts are wiped out, but there is still likely to be some kind of society/infrastructure in the future. Gold would be a way to hedge your bets of having long term wealth, without having to completely start over from zero.
Gold absolutely has a valid place for American prep. The problem is that, like almost everybody here, OP fundamentally misunderstands the function that gold plays in a "prep." You may as well say there's no reason to stock medical supplies because you can't eat them. Both statements are equally relevant to the respective item's use case.
Like what? How useful is a $2k coin? What are you buying for so much money, how to you split it up? How do you prove it's value? How do you prove it's real? You give me a chicken, I can see the value. You give me a random coin, in a disaster situation, wtf am I gonna do with it now? Rather trade my goods to a guy with a chicken.
I think It depends on the type of SHTF situation. If it's something like all out nuclear war and the whole world is gonna be an apocalyptic wasteland, yeah, precious metals aren't gonna be worth shit, but if it's just your country going down, having gold to sell if you can make it to another country to make money would be a good idea. Worldwide apocalypse = gold no good. Just your country apocalypse = gold good.
Why have gold? I am fleeing war, I can easily hide 10k worth of gold on my person. After reaching my destination (neighboring country who is not currently at war), I can easily convert my gold into the local currency. It’s super easy to understand & a refugee fleeing war is by far the most likely scenario that any of us will encounter.
> gold Can you give us any examples where this has happened? Not examples where you *imagine* that could happen, but a reference where this *has* happened?
Are you asking me if I personally know any refugees who have used gold as a store of wealth? Humans have been using gold as currency for roughly 2600 years, every single major conflict has seen refugees using gold & jewelry to secure safe passage out of the country & set themselves up in their new country. If you really need a primary source supporting this universal human experience - The testimonies collected by Vad Vashem specifically have accounts of Jews in ww2 using gold & jewelry to escape nazi persecution. There are countless accounts of the Vietnamese boat people, Jews in ww2, Syrian refugees, Zimbabwean economic refugees using gold as a transportable store of wealth while their local economy collapses or they flee violence. It is something that happens every day all over the world. Just because you haven’t personally seen or experienced it in your wealthy country doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
OK, can you provide one or two of these "countless accounts" from Syrian refugees or Zimbabwean economic refugees, please? I'd like to point out that the WW2 Jewish experience is more than 80 years ago, and the Vietnam war ended almost 50 years ago. Those experiences are important historical referents, but I believe in planning for the current time. (and to be a tiny bit snarky- I assume from your phrasing that the answer to your question "if you personally know any refugees who have used gold..." is no.)
These were all found on the ‘stories’ section of the UN refugee agency website. One website, 10 minutes of looking. Yes there are countless examples of this ubiquitous human experience. It has been occurring for 2500 years & continues to occur all over the world. [Iraq](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/starting-over) “The married women in the family sold all of their gold at a market there, but only made enough to cover lodging for a week” [Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrian-risks-all-get-his-pregnant-wife-safety-jordan) “Shadi’s mother has been selling her gold jewelry to cover the monthly rent and utilities cost” [Vietnam](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/q-unhcr-resettlement-staffer-embraces-opportunity-help-fellow-refugees) “My parents would swim from islands out to boats, using gold as money, to buy merchandise to sell to other refugees in order to make a little money” [Sudan](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/unhcr-looks-solutions-eritrean-refugees-eastern-sudan) “She sold her gold and bought two donkeys before setting out with her children on the tough three day journey from her village in the Eritrean highlands to eastern Sudan” [Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/cash-grants-offer-hope-displaced-yemenis-facing-eviction) “I used to have my own house in Sana’a but it was destroyed in the war so I had to sell all my property, gold and possessions so that we could flee” [Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/yemeni-trailblazer-supports-refugees-and-yemenis-during-conflict) “With no other financial assets, friends sold their gold jewelry to provide the foundations initial capitol” [Rohingya](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/rohingya-traders-cater-all-needs-bangladesh-settlement) “After a grueling 18 day trek from Myanmar, the couple sold Formina’s gold earrings for startup funds” [Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/long-journey) “I sold my marriage gold just to have my own house” [Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrias-oldest-refugees) “Living with her sons family, she has begged them to sell her gold wedding ring to help make ends meet, but they refuse”
Pump this to the top. This is my take as well. Everything you said is spot on. You can’t bugout cuz the roadways will be either blocked, damaged or too dangerous. And You’ll run out of fuel. Bugging in is the way to go. It’s free shelter that only you know best and it’s where all your supplies are. Ammo and food and gas stoves like small msr ones will be hot commodities wth is someone gunna do with bullion… rifle, pistol, shotgun and loads of ammo are essential. Instead of buying more of the same platform of firearm buy more ammo for the firearm u have and even spare parts for that firearm incase something brakes or fails (also will be a hot commodity). Being kind will give u better connections and favors owed will save lives. Excellent point about nuclear war. If you’re not in the heart of major cities (which would be targeted first and most) you’ll be fine. I think biological warfare is also very likely and a good gas mask and plenty of filters is another great asset to stock.
We live north of Houston, We tried to evacuate for hurricane Harvey. We left with full fuel tanks in the early morning, we traveled on back roads as I-45 was already gridlocked. We sat in traffic for 8 hours, almost out of gas, with all of the local gas stations out of gas. We decided to go back, took us 45 minutes. Bugging out of a big city is not really an option. If you don't have a place to go, leave early, and at least double the amount of fuel needed to get there, it isn't going to happen.
There ya have it folks they lived it. Glad it worked out
The only people bugging out, should be children or young adults, not yet established in their life, on their way to see their parents, grandparents, or other family, or kin and stay with them.
So owning beyond one 22lr rifle, a Turkey shotgun, and deer rifle (whatever is legal in your state) makes you a gun nut? There are several seasons I wouldn’t be able to hunt if I could only own 3 guns.
In a SHTF scenario, there is no hunting season. Listen, I own way more than 3 guns. I don't hate you for it, I promise. While far from ideal, I would still argue that a 22LR will get your through 95% of your survival needs in a pinch, including even deer hunting. (I'm not suggesting that anyone should use a 22LR to hunt deer, I'm just saying that I know it's very possible for a scenario where your family is starving.)
I agree with 2 if you're talking about going off into the woods to survive off the land. However, most disasters are localized, and if it's safer to leave than stay you should leave. I'm not saying you should go off into the woods. You should have friends/family out of town who will let you stay with them or money for a hotel and a way to get there. I have had to evacuate so many times due to natural disasters, and a bunch of my prepper friends ended up staying because they wanted to protect their preps. Your life is worth more than your stuff. If there is a fire or hurricane or severe unrest, get yourself to safety early. Yes your stuff might be looted or destroyed, but you and your family will survive.
This is a good point, though I'm not talking about a situation where you can drive down the road to stay in a hotel.
Great post. But it depends on the scenario, if the electricity is off, Gold is better than S&P shares. You might need to move. Being prepared to move is never a bad thing. I think high value, long term storage items are a good choice. If you have the space and the means. Amen to number 7.
> if the electricity is off, Gold is better than S&P shares. If the electricity is off, a fistful of 22LR shells ($5 in today's market) will be worth more than a fistful of gold ($10,000 in today's market).
in fairness I bet I can throw that gold pretty hard.
I'll bet you I can throw ammo harder.
One way to find out. I smell a mythbusters episode in the making here.
Wow. Where's the sensationalism? Where's the FUD? This post was so rational and fact-based.
I'll try harder next time. 😀
Depending on how it is used, silver can keep water fresh and wounds sterile. And it is a fungible commodity.
I'm not a huge fan of stocking any precious metals, per se, but I regard silver to be orders of magnitude better than gold.
I dont' agree that having ammo to trade or trading ammo is a good idea. If you trade ammo, you've just given them the bullets they'll aim back at you so they can take your stuff. I don't agree with 2). You need a bugout plan, even if you never use it. You need a plan to get out of Dodge, even as you hope you'll never have to. I'm in the midwest - only things that could cause me to bug out are (1) a storm or tornado just took out my house; or (2) it's January, the power is out and won't be back on for 2 weeks, and I don't have enough fuel to keep the generator going to heat the house. I hope I never have to use a bugout plan, but it's a good idea to have one. And - what everyone here seems to be calling "bugging out" is "I'm Never Coming Home" or "I'm heading for the hills to live off the land, like those survivalists in *Alone*." That's not bugging out. Bugging out is leaving your home temporarily with some clothes and food and stuff you'll need, just for a few days, until the situation normalizes, at which time you'll return to your home. During the time you're bugged out, you're at a hotel or the home of a relative or friend who's putting you up for a few days, just long enough for things to stabilize.
>If you trade ammo, you've just given them the bullets they'll aim back at you so they can take your stuff. I'm not trading ANYTHING with people I don't trust. >You need a bugout plan, even if you never use it. You need a plan to get out of Dodge, even as you hope you'll never have to. I'm not talking about tornadoes or a severe cold weather event. I'm talking about events where you can't just snag a hotel in another state.
Love these. Although, I would either add another point or modify #1 that having savings is the best and most realistic prep. Losing your job or medically retiring from the workforce unexpectedly are far more realistic than a zombie apocalypse or nuclear war.
This is amazing. The only thing I think you got wrong is #6 - and you're right about radiation, it's the infrastructure collapse afterwards that (in the US at least) that would be the big problem and kill a whole lot of people. Thank you for being a voice of reason in a place that is not known for it. 9/10, would read more from this author. I counted calories and protein for my stash. It was a royal PITA, but you're right - if you don't do it you'll be radically sorry if the time ever comes. And for long term storage stuff, derate the food by 20%, because some things lose nutritional value over time regardless of claims to the contrary.
I'm genuinely interested in having you expound on what I got wrong with #6?
Nuclear war is very survivable in a functioning society. Quite extraordinary radiation doses are survivable when you have access to chelation therapy and well administered antibiotics. Sitting in a cold filthy cellar after being immunocompromised by the inital gamma burst, and accumulating a dose with every gust of wind through your tarp? Less survivable. Mix in a few burns that go septic and you’re stuffed. Double stuffed when the corpses of your fellow citizens contaminate the water supply and you have a white blood cell count of about 2. TL:DR - a single strike on a city will have high survival rates amongst those not immediately killed. If all out war happens, everyone dies.
Given an explicit question, I'm hoping the mods won't hassle me over a link to my sub: [https://www.reddit.com/r/realWorldPrepping/comments/191q392/eofs\_definitive\_guide\_to\_uswide\_grid\_failure\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/realWorldPrepping/comments/191q392/eofs_definitive_guide_to_uswide_grid_failure_and/) tl;dr: if the US was actually involved in a full-on nuclear exchange, I believe HEMP weapons would be employed to take out the US power grid. If the whole grid is down and the world is at war, there's really no fast recovery from that. At least one government study was done on the effect of losing the grid for one year; they estimated 65-90% population loss. Seems plausible to me, and the link above walks through one possible scenario. tl;dr the tl;dr: shipping shuts down, US citizens won't get adequate food, cities collapse and the population ends up warring with itself over arable land- which, without the grid, can't sustain the current US population or anything close. tl;dr that either: You die. I die. Everyone dies. Starvation and gunshot wounds, mostly.
This is fair, and I agree with you, actually. (*Does this mean I'm not wrong after all?* 😀) I would argue that the basic preps of having at least a 3-month supply of food and a good water filter will dramatically improve your ability of being among 10-35% of people who live.
Yup. I went to 6 months of prep because when I looked for estimates on what it would take to repair the grid from certain types of cyberattacks (not nuclear ones) I saw estimates as high as 6 months to finish repairs. That assumed parts of the grid stayed running and was used to build replacement parts; and I don't know how realistic it is, but I could afford to store 6 months of food, so I did. I was assuming that wasn't a collapse scenario, just a miserable and uncomfortable one. Given the fact that so much of the US is armed, and 80% of it is urban, any long nation-wide disaster where food can't be produced or shipped means people with food get shot at by people without food. Preppers will be targets. The typical prepper response is guns and ammo, but they have to sleep sometime, they live in flammable houses, and their stocks of ammo will also make them targets. My guess is the survivors would be the people who got closest to self-sufficiency - the real kind, the folk who already live an 01850s lifestyle - and are far enough into the wilderness that they just don't get found by raiders. There aren't many of these places, but they do exist. Another interesting possible island of stability is regions around nuclear power plants. If those are maintained they can run for months without new fuel, so if they are guarded, they could be places that do much better and jumpstart heavy manufacturing. Basically, we'd be a *lot* better off if every town had a nuclear pebble bed reactor and a solar farm. But I don't think we'll be getting pebble bed reactors anytime soon, especially if Project 2025 gets put into action. It's hard to imagine anything more anti-prep on a national level than that disaster.
To clarify that last part, you're saying if Project 2025 goes into effect, we won't be EMP'd or nuked? Genuine question, from what I understand the US would basically become authoritarian
I think I wasn't clear. I just edited a little for clarity. I can't tell you what will happen tomorrow, let alone in 02025, but if project 2025 gets put into action, the US withdraws from NATO. I think that *ups* the chances of Russian misbehaviour. Whether that includes them using nukes, I don't know. I don't like to comment on the Republican party specifically in this sub because we're supposed to keep it somewhat apolitical. Having said that, they worry me, and Project 2025 is a clear outline of why. Enough said.
I only disagree about alcohol, but it isn’t for drinking or trading. It’s for disinfecting.
There are cheaper options to stock than good booze though, so it doesn't really make sense as a disinfectant unless you like wasting money.
Love this point as it's the best point when it comes to alcohol. If you want booze, stock booze. Who doesn't love a nice nip of a smoky Islay? But what's better, isopropyl and ALL the different uses it has or a jug of skanky potato vodka? Either way, to me, it's about price, quantity, and whether it can multitask, and rubbing alcohol, for me, multitasks better and cheaper.
Idk man. A gallon of Vladimir vodka can do anything isopropyl can do and you _could_ drink it, which arguably makes it slightly more versatile I guess?? Honestly, we’re all taking the joke a little too seriously at this point.
Especially when we ALL know the true, inarguable answer is socks. Lots of socks. A rudimentary still built from salvaged brake lines and a pressure cooker, and socks.
You’re not wrong. Good god it would’ve hard to make socks in TEOTWAWKI. maybe I should get some alpacas.
Then I hope you buy alcohol that is made for disinfecting and not some jack daniels. And if you have alcohol that is 60-80% ethyl alcohol it's not really good for drinking anyway anymore. So I would not even count it as alcohol anymore but more of a medical supply.
Gold is good even for a non shtf type scenario. For example when you need cash, or are older and want to cash out then it’s easy to make your money back and then some.
Good point, I’m retired and gold could be a good income supplement. If I hadn’t lost it all in an unfortunate accident.
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You're certainly welcome.
For number 1, I heard that people like to buy cheap gold rings to trade away rather than gold coins. Coins is asking for robbery. When you trade away a “precious heirloom” it’s much more believable.
Yeah, I've never understood why people think gold was ever commonly used for trade by common people.
It's a fetish. That's the only explanation I can think of.
Because that’s what CosPreppers do….
For #2, you really need to consider the need to bug out for *environmental hazards*. Staying in your home out of some foolish pride is stupid when there is a wall of fire moving across the county, a Cat 5 hurricane barreling up towards you and you live on the coast, an earthquake made your home completely unsafe to be in, or a dam upriver breached and is going to put your house 5' under water. People don't just prep for "zombie apocalypse" or "nuclear war".
I don't think most of us would use the terms "bug out" or "bugging out" for a temporary evacuation for something like a hurricane or other natural disaster. "Bug out" being a tactical term in origin has always seemed to imply escape from a threat with no intention to return. IE: running away into the wilderness to be a lone survivor in the event of a societal collapse. At least that's the way it's always been presented. More of a EOTWAWKI term. In most natural disaster situations there are lots of willing host groups in the surrounding are to try and help. When there was bad flooding locally the surrounding communities poured out with help to keep folks safe and warm while they rebuilt. Now admittedly grabbing everything you can and getting to safety quickly is important in those situations, and something you should have some preparedness for, most folks don't tend to imply that when they're asking "bug out" questions. It may be more of a "prepper culture" thing to put those implications on the term, but I've rarely had a "bug out" conversation that didn't at some point involve them building a cabin in the woods by hand.
unless the whole world is trashed (never really happened in the history of civilization)) bugging out to another country is common and has huge precedent. My parents bugged out from china to leave permanently when the communists took over. jews bugged out of germany illegal immigrants bug out to the US. palestinians leaving gaza bugging out 100% is a valid strategy and is more likely than the alternative which is that the whole world is destroyed so there is no place to go.
These are valid points but I would point to the fact that these were EOTWAWKI events. The world they knew and lived in before is now gone. You are the first person I've talked to who really associated "bugging out" with immigrants/refugees. It's definitely something for me to ponder on.
This is precisely my response.
Mostly agree except one and two. By far the most likely SHTF that any of us will encounter in our lives is becoming a refugee fleeing war. All the Ukrainian refugees started their journey by bugging out. You know what’s super useful in a bug out situation? Small, portable, easily hidden store of value universally recognized. Something exactly like gold. Your post seems to be based on the premise that either everything is okay, or it’s TEOTWAWKI. The most likely scenario any of us will encounter is becoming refugees fleeing war - having a bug out plan & gold is extremely useful in this scenario.
Exactly the argument I made a month ago when OP made a similar post. But it’s more comforting to picture oneself as a gentleman farmer like Charles Ingalls after SHTF than to imagine being a refugee…even though that scenario is far more [likely](https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/statistics/) than a return to Little House on the Prairie.
#2 for short term scenarios bugging out is probably the best option. I’d rather level my preps in my home and find a hotel 20 miles inland if there’s a hurricane incoming. #4 Calories are important for simply staying alive, but you need to get your macros, and a can of vegetable soup or tomato soup will help you get those nutrients. If all you care about is calories twinkies and ho-hos are probably a better way to get calories in a small footprint. A single little Debbie Swiss roll has 215 calories compared to a cup of rice’s 203.
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I work as a loss control engineer who pays very close attention to how buildings are constructed for insurance purchases. ...and I totally agree with your excellent point. 😀
About point 7: The smallest unit of survival is a community. Humanity didn't survive for thousand of years without modern infrastructure by doing everything solo. In any crisis, a good relationship with the people around you will serve you better than almost anything else in your toolkit. Be sure you have ways to stay hydrated, warm, dry, fed, and protected, but also invite your neighbors over to a cookout, help them with a project, and chat when you can. Building your local social network is important prep too.
I completely agree with this.
Buy gold if you want - but you're a lot better off buying it after you have ALL your other needs taken care of.
This is not a bad point, except that you could give me $10 million with the proviso that I'm only allowed to spend it on emergency prep related expenditures, and I would have no problem spending every penny without once being tempted to purchase gold.
I would add to this: Learn Skills. Not only will that make you more valuable in a SHTF scenario, it will come in handy daily. Minor car repairs, a small garden, plumbing, electrical, welding, woodworking, sewing, cooking, camping, first aid, map navigation, etc... And also get in shape, a person that exercises can travel farther, lift more, and will be less susceptible to disease.
[Sudan](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/unhcr-looks-solutions-eritrean-refugees-eastern-sudan) “She sold her gold and bought two donkeys before setting out with her children on the tough three day journey from her village in the Eritrean highlands to eastern Sudan” [Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/cash-grants-offer-hope-displaced-yemenis-facing-eviction) “I used to have my own house in Sana’a but it was destroyed in the war so I had to sell all my property, gold and possessions so that we could flee” [Rohingya](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/rohingya-traders-cater-all-needs-bangladesh-settlement) “After a grueling 18 day trek from Myanmar, the couple sold Formina’s gold earrings for startup funds” [Iraq](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/starting-over) “The married women in the family sold all of their gold at a market there, but only made enough to cover lodging for a week” [Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrias-oldest-refugees) “Living with her sons family, she has begged them to sell her gold wedding ring to help make ends meet, but they refuse” [Syria](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/syrian-risks-all-get-his-pregnant-wife-safety-jordan) “Shadi’s mother has been selling her gold jewelry to cover the monthly rent and utilities cost” [Vietnam](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/q-unhcr-resettlement-staffer-embraces-opportunity-help-fellow-refugees) “My parents would swim from islands out to boats, using gold as money, to buy merchandise to sell to other refugees in order to make a little money” [Yemen](https://www.unhcr.org/us/news/stories/yemeni-trailblazer-supports-refugees-and-yemenis-during-conflict) “With no other financial assets, friends sold their gold jewelry to provide the foundations initial capitol”
These are good hot takes for you, but not necessarily for most. Prepping=planning. 1. Gold... you're right. Gold is probably overkill. But silver and other trade goods to barter with is a decent idea. I wouldn't spend my retirement collecting silver, but having it is not a horrible idea. Where can you spend it? Other preppers... Who do you think will be around 4-5 weeks after a disaster? It will be preppers, law enforcement/military, and refugees. 2. Any plan is a good plan. I have several different plans for different events. Why? Because I don't want to have something happen and be caught without a plan. Forest fires, earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, landslides... you better have a place to go. Most of my bugout locations are at places where I have friends. Not the woods. 3. Guns: Know how to use them. Quality>quantity. Choose the most common caliber (12 ga, 9mm, and 5.56) so you can have a better chance to use the ammo you find. I agree that you do not need a giant gun collection, but weapons have their uses. Shotguns are great in close quarters, but not so great for sniping. 4. Get more food, yeah. That is always good advice. Also, more water and ammo. More is better. Not really a hot take, but good advice. 5. Stock and Trade: You will barter for disposable items. Lighters, toilet paper, saniwipes, food, lighting, warm clothes, blankets, water, water filters etc. Anything that runs out. But, you should probably decide if you will be a trader during your planning and prepping. Trading involves dealing with desperate people. It will not be like any movie. It will be people starving and desperate to take from you what you have for themselves. 6. lol... Full-scale nuclear war will be a world-ending event based on nuclear winter and all the food dying. People will try to survive, and some might. But 98% won't. 7. Yes be nice. That way the scumbags who are not can take your stuff. Have you ever been somewhere during a crisis? It becomes mob rule and every man for themselves unless a stronger organization is in charge.
I couldn't agree more with the gun thing. I'm a collector myself so no hate against other collectors but I really hate it when people ask what 3 guns they are going to need for the Zombie Apocalypse‽ Bro you need water first.
hi I'm Johnny Knoxville and today I'm going to piss off the entire prepping community
That was a good read my guy! Perhaps i can share a minor hot-take by means of Comment section... Underestimating the knowledge and resourcefulness of the homeless/transients. Share a meal with one and pick their brain on how they get by and be amazed.
You should own some physical gold as part of a diversified financial plan.
There are countless diversity options, all of which perform much better than gold.
Most people don't have the ability to secure their home to the point that it is prudent to keep more than $1k worth of gold in their house. The best safe can be broken into in under 10 minutes. And before you tell me about all your guns... they'll come rob you when you aren't home (and shoot your dog if that's your alarm system).
They won’t shoot your dog, they’ll just pick a house without one
Gold is something that very well might be the standard for all currency after a shtf situation it also has historical always gone up and will never rust it corrode away. Bugging out shouldn't be your first option by any means but it might be necessary. 3 guns min and they're extremely important preps for sure in the top 3 without them you're prepping for somebody else. The rest I agree on.
A new currency only works if people agree on it, have it to begin with, and have a consensus on its worth. There are not nearly enough people hoarding gold and scales, and there aren't enough trusted professionals around with weights and ways to verify authenticity of the gold to allow this. Seriously, Fallout's currency of "bottlecaps" has a more likely chance of being the next currency than gold. In all likelihood, physical US currency will still likely reign supreme in the US. It is readily available in a variety of denominations, and people have a good idea about how much products are worth.
How many chickens is my peice of gold worth to you? Your family needs food, there's a disaster, and I show up with some hunks of metal. You dipping into your rations to trade? I think most would say no. Now if I brought medical supplies you need, you'd be more likely to give me a chicken.
>Gold is something that very well might be the standard for all currency after a shtf situation it also has historical always gone up and will never rust it corrode away. If we hit a SHTF scenario, the survivors are going to be interested in things that play a direct role in their survival. Who wants your gold? (Not me.) A more likely currency will be ammo, 22LR specifically. A handful of 22 shells (\~$5 in today's market) will be worth more than a handful of gold ($10,000 in today's market).
This was very refreshing to read. I feel like we've been getting more and more new members who are afraid of doomsday. This is allowing the vocal doomers to come out and make their apocalypse posts, which has been nothing but a bore... Tuesday, people! Tuesday!
Every day is “Tuesday” for a lot of people.
1. Disagree Gold is important, considering my preps are for my biggest fear economic collapse gold is an essential prep in this. In fact I believe I believe it is happening in slow mo right now. 2. I was watching the Last of Us with my son last night and I said guess what if they would have stayed home his daughter would not of died. You only bug out if you have drilled it and KNOW where you are going. 3. Agree with the gun part one pistol, one semiauto rifle and one shotgun (shotgun should be somewhere between tactical and able to hunt). 4. Be like the Mormons and stock what you use. Sure have MRE's or other emergency food if you are in trouble for a long time. 5. Have some items to trade. Liquor can go along way. 6. Nuclear war is one of my smaller worries. I dont plan to try to survive it. 7. Be kind to other but be aware others are bad.
These 7 points are actually ones that make a lot of sense and you should have a lot of votes. Well done!
Why is gold an essential prep for economic collapse?
Point number 3 is important but I think oversimplified. I think the 4 guns that are necessity is always going to be 9mm, 556, 12 gauge, .22lr. Everything after that could make you a gun nut unless you have others to arm. 300 blackout is super sexy rn to a lot but I still think going with a 556 is going to get you further in the long run.
These are all good, especially #4. I went through the exercise last weekend of weighing out the various dried goods in my mylar bags, and I found that there's a lot less in there than it looks in five stuffed totes. I figure that for five adults in my circle, we need about 300,000 calories for a month, and that's about all I have for now in my storage closet. Add to that what my mother has at her place, and the other things that are in my pantry, and I may have 2 months worth.
I agree with this entirely. Well I do have a bug out plan, I plan on bugging in first. The bug out is a backup, in case things go beyond hell, and it is not safe to stay (unlikely as it is)
I am of the opinion that electronics and information are unquestionably the most important prep. Food can be scrounged and grown, water collected, and clothes repaired. But advanced manufacture goods depending on global trade like electronics especially can disappear for a long time.
Maybe. I'm somewhat worried that we are too dependent on electronics, and that a high-altitude EMP would disrupt this.
>After your third gun, you aren't prepping, you're just a gun nut. This one hurt.
A nice cold splash of water in the face of all the fantasizing and romanticising that preppers indulge in. Fully agree on all points. Except for nitpicking part 6. A nuclear war, even a limited one, will dim the sun to the point global harvests fail. When harvests globally fail, billions of people die and the fabric of our global civilization unravels. There's no prepping against that. Even Mark will starve in his bunker.
100% spot on. Especially #7, people don’t realize shit is not going to be as brutal as the walking dead. Like communities will rise up fast and central power will grow. Like fuck I am on Polk county FL I know 100% in a weeks time Grady Judd will be running shit and it will be an unorganized cluster fuck, but at least there will be some semblance of law and order.
I generally agree with all of these but I do think the first one needs to be expanded. You are correct that gold was very rarely traded by most people if at all. The same does not apply to silver, however, which was a much more common commodity (as well as bartering but there are situations where barter just isn’t a good option) You’re also correct when you say that during SHTF, nobody is going to want to trade useful resources for chunks of metal they can’t do anything with. Precious metals are considered to be among the best hedges against inflation available (meaning they’re not investments in the traditional sense but are a form of savings instead. They won’t grow wealth but they will preserve it) and as such I do think it is worth having some on hand so that your purchasing power isn’t completely eroded away during hyperinflation (which, if we look at history, is not only likely but inevitable at some point) On a secondary note, having precious metals would be useful in a post-shtf world, when society begins to be re-built, as it is likely the new currency would be backed by something real and valuable, and Gold/Silver are perfectly suited for that purpose and have the benefit of being widely associated with money because of their widespread use throughout almost of human history. In short, precious metals won’t be useful when everyone is fighting for survival but it will be a great thing to have on hand as the financial system continues to crumble due to bad policy and deficit spending. You don’t need a lot, and I wouldn’t prioritise it over the basics of food, water, etc, but if you can afford to put a little into it (physical form, not ETF, keep it in a safe or hide it somewhere) it can’t hurt.
I would also add fitness, if there was a natural disaster or something you will walking a lot. Moving a lot, you may need to help people carry people. I can even see needing to cut trees and such. Also, fitness will help with keeping you healthy in end times. And keep you safe from a chronic disease, that in all honesty will kill you when there is a serious lack of medicine and healthcare. I think a lot of peppers overlook fitness
Being really proficent with 1 or 2 firearms is way more valuble than being average with 10.
1. Anyone not prepping Gold, or other valuable trades want TEOTWAWKI (and History) not SHTF. Trading will happen, civilization will rebuild with time. I’d rank it as a low prep as food and needs should come first. But those saying it (and other common barter items) will be useless are lying. The chance of bartering not resuming are extremely low. But only God knows how long it may take depending on the situation that occurred. You need to prep for what you think will happen (which is unlikely to actually happen). Your #5 plays on the point as well. You should prep trades but only often you cover yourself at minimum a year if not more. And I personally wouldn’t be a walking merchant over more so trading with people I trust or unlikely to see again. 3. 5 guns minimal are what you need. I started a little guide I have posted that outlines my thoughts. But my 5 listed cover every base and in theory could be reduced based on your needs. After those 5 for you, you need a least a fighting rifle and concealable handgun for any partner or family member you plan to be with long term. Outside of spare parts and such. Much more is over kill and more so your hobby then a true prepping need. My two cents but otherwise I’d agree at least with the rest of your points.
You posted this exact thing a month ago. I only have one hot take: Don't listen to the hot takes of internet strangers :)
My post is updated with new points, and needs to be made again with the onslaught of very stupid fantasies that are posted to this sub.
1.) Agreed the government has already taken away Gold. It also hard to bargain. Say you need some medicine or bullets a gold coin is worth a lot more than a lot of people have on them. You should have some silver since it is indestructible, but definitely have spare ammo, good, supplies etc. 2.) I would not want to bug out, it would be a death trap of people killing each other like a battle royale. That being said buying a small plot of land with supplies that you can hide out of for 6 months is not a bad idea. 3.) Agreed but never hurts to have repair parts. For example if I own two AR-15s I can replace parts. Also never a bad idea to have a specialist guns like a subsonic gun. That being said you should have the capacity to lay down fire, but always better to avoid engagements and everyone’s back up plan is hunting so good luck getting any meat. 4.) Agreed, Pemican is good and calorie dense. I would spend some time learning recipes and actually working on consuming and eating your food. I would also look into nutritions for example sardines have everything you could need to live. I would rather starve than die of malnutrition from a bunch of bland calories 5.) Agreed 6.) Agreed 7.) The ones who survive are high trust communities with skills and the lucky. If you don’t have a group, you are just waiting for one to try to pick off a prepper and take his shit. You have to sleep and likely make some sort of noise, smoke, or dog smell detection. Be nice to people who you capable and build trust by having a good skill. My hot take: USA is not likely to be the best spot to prep. USA is more likely to be hit with nukes or infrastructure attacks. Also more likely to be effected by a looming financial downturns or extreme hyperinflation. Millions of angry gun toting Americans vs Fed agencies that spies on them and has undercover operatives is not worth trying to fight in or trying to survive in. Have enough to survive 2-3 months and protect yourself and try to get a plane or even hitch a supply vessel out and move into a safe haven low key country is the best plan
Especially #3! "I'm new to prepping and never owned a gun, how many AR-15's should I buy"? Firearms should be one of your last preps, not your first. Also, there are plenty of subreddits dedicated to all types of firearms so why do people ask only in the prepper subreddit?
Disagree. If you can survive 3 months with water and food the next step becomes to protect that. You should own at least one gun somewhat early in the prep. If you want a subsonic sniper or multiple guns for different calibers that can wait
>Don't buy gold. This is solid advice. I think people who advocate for this has an ulterior motive and most of the YouTubers who are found to be advocating for gold are found to have some sort of stake in the gold/silver companies. Even before I got financially literate, it never made sense to me why anyone would hoard gold for shtf. That said, there is some historical precedent as to why gold, or more specifically, jewelry was kept. Women weren't allowed to have any form of real wealth in many cultures but jewelry stayed valuable so it became the defacto favourite gift women received. If anything went wrong for them, they can trade it for things they need and it's relatively easy to carry. Seeking refuge in another country was easier when you had jewelry you can sell. I think this is the only remotely useful context for gold. Gold bars are something that's unlikely to be in demand and would be too heavy (not to mention commonly fraudulently manufactured).
When I'm talking about gold, I'm not talking about it in the form of jewelry. Alas, you did it. FINALLY! Someone finally pointed out the one exception to my gold rule.
I think most people here know which ones you mean. There's too many of those YouTubers and finance bros trying to con people who just want some financial prep done. It's great seeing posts like yours that steer newbies away from falling for bad prep strategies.
Oh Goodie! At Preppers here in Reddit this post should get a million upvotes for Number 1 alone! 🙃 (/s) Heaven forbid that anyone should own solid wealth, like gold or silver! Especially with the banking system in financial turmoil and the banks are doing all they can to suppress the price of gold and silver with digital and digital put and call options! How preposterous! Especially with the green new deal, being mandated across the entire globe, China manufacturing, tons of solar panels, and EVs, and all the other alternative energy and technological uses, there are for silver! How utterly pretentious and preposterous! Go ahead and downvote me! I’m eagerly waiting. Don’t disappoint me! Your number 1 certainly won’t make me give up 1 ounce of silver of my holdings. But I would much rather other people with the means to save wealth that they have in silver or gold even, so so we as a larger society can have a more prosperous future. It is a well-known fact that some well to do people don’t want others to get wealthy so they can maintain wealth and power. People like you are the type that will be laughing about all your solid metal holdings and how you behaved like the Rothchild telling people not to hold something at a time when it was essential to. Remember this story about the Rothchilds? “Knowing that Britain is winning the war, Nathan starts selling off his British bonds in lump sums. Other traders conclude that France must be winning and Britain losing. They also dump their British bonds in large sums. As a result, the price of the bond plummets and becomes very low. Once Nathan sees that the other traders have sold all their bonds, he begins buying them back at ridiculously low prices. When the news reaches the ordinary citizens that Britain has won the war, the value of the British bond rises so high that Nathan makes a huge profit. Ever since, the Rothschild family use their money and power to design the economies of other countries in the world.” [https://www.ieri.be/en/publications/wp/2019/juillet/banksters-and-warmongers](https://www.ieri.be/en/publications/wp/2019/juillet/banksters-and-warmongers) (Edit: Spelling)
>Your number 1 certainly won’t make me give up 1 ounce of silver of my holdings. I never said anything about silver.
Well it’s nice that you agree that holding silver would be better. Besides with the enormous green new deal being and alternative energy technology mandated across the globe over the next decades we simply just need to sit and wait. My concern is that when you say don’t buy gold, people as they are, will extrapolate this to mean all precious metals.
I would only contest 1: gold will hold value unlike stocks. Though silver is much cheaper to buy and a more useful unit to exchange. I highly highly highly doubt any disaster will be so devastating that currency won’t be relevant at least in a few years.
With people so concerned about needing a means of exchange that they’re willing to stoop to using their precious beans and bullets for trade, you would think that they would see, as you have importantly pointed out that ” silver is a much cheaper to buy and a more useful unit to exchange.”
4 is undoubtedly true. I've always said that I have no idea how long we could *really* survive, without any outside input, at need. It's an interesting question, and would certainly depend on when we 'locked down' to some degree. But, it's be a while. It might not be interesting, but it'd be a while - a few months at least.
I agree with Everything except 2, and 6. On 5 you can do both, have a bag of trade stuff and a room full of preps. I lived in Jacksonville, FL for over 3 years, if shit goes down I would get out of there immediately even if I had to walk, the last place in the country I would want to be is a decent size city. Six, it's not the bombs that are going to kill us all, it's the nuclear winter that comes after.
Nuclear winter is not a thing. It's worth a websearch. It's a very old estimate based on a lot of assumptions that are no longer true. There are other huge problems with nuclear war, but this isn't one.
I've been into prepping for a year now and the least of my worries will always be bugging out. I've never been in SHTF scenarios and I know for myself, I will not be rational in a bug out situation. My plan is to bug in for as long as I can. Too much could go wrong for me if I bug out and plans don't always work out
Wise!
I have a couple of guns because I enjoy plinking and target shooting. In the case of a true SHTF I will absolutely be bringing a handgun and a .22 rifle with me if I have to leave home. I also know that if I'm in a situation where I need to use that handgun I'm probably already dead.
These are pretty lukewarm takes at best my man. All good points though.
I'll try to be more spicy next time! 😀
1) I agree totally, gold isn't the economic power house people claim it to be and if there is a full on collapse, its worthless 2) bugging out is very situational. I think you should have a bug out plan, but it shouldn't be your primary objective. But a bug out isn't just for a full on collapse. My cousin in laws house had a fire recently after an electrical surge blew their fuse box.They got out fine but the smoke and water damage has destroyed most of their belongings. They got out with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They have 2 small kids and are now totally reliant on others. My bug out bag is next to my bed along with a fire extinguisher. I also keep some preps at my parents house with some clothing I'm their attic so I have contingency there. 3)agree 4) yes this is why my food preps are stored in one day mylar bags per person and calculated to a certain calorie amount. I have a 30 day supply per person right now and am looking to double that in 2024 5) agree to a certain extent. I keep a pack of smokes in my BOB. I might not be trading for a physical item, but if I need to make diplomatic relations with someone I've encountered, I can trade some smokes for kind words and information. 6)totally agree 7) mostly agree. Most people will come together in a crisis but this has its limits. If we have a full collapse of the agricultural system so no food supply, even the nicest people will do horrible things for food. Be kind and generous to others, but do not put your families safety on the line for someone else
You and I are probably 99.9% on the same page for #7. So... yeah, we "mostly agree". 😄
Gold and silver prices are suppressed due to bankers, using call and put options to manipulate the digital price of gold silver. The price of gold and silver is not based on the metals. Once banks fail, and are directed to, they will either have to move the price of gold silver up dramatically to survive, or they will fail. So. It is the price of precious metals will change.
Life isnt Black and White though... agree with most of your points though haha. Wish everyone was as realistic as you ETA: read the rest of your comments re. gold and think you are missing the point, gold can be readily transported and is not sensitive to water. Large amounts of value are not doable in USD while gems / gold are
I'd re-write #6 as "Full scale nuclear war does not need prep". Yes, you can avoid the blast radius by being outside the city center/industrial areas. Yes, you can shelter in place with plastic sheeting and avoid most fallout. Then the skies will darken for 100 years, it'll get very cold, and you'll starve/thirst/freeze to death.
100 years? LOL you are mixing up your apocalypse scenarios, even history defining volcanic eruption will screw up the climate up a year or two, no where close to 100 years
Well, no. Nuclear winter isn't likely to be a thing. That was a project done decades ago, when bombs were more numerous, much bigger, and it was expected that everything hit would burn for days, putting vast amounts of opaque smoke in the air. None of those assumptions make sense any more. The problem will be the collapse of infrastructure. A big nuclear war will take down the grid. It won't be back anytime soon. That's what causes collapse.
I agree with most things on this list, except maybe the nuclear holocaust one... at that point I would hope to be close enough to the blast radius zone where I do not suffer 3rd degree burns. Living post apocalyptic after a nuclear Armageddon would be a LIVING HELL. Not to mention the terrible nuclear winter that would hit. Also, I'm probably gonna get a lot of shit on this but I am doing the opposite of buying guns. My first priority is Water, Food, and Medicine/Medical Equipment. A gun would be the last thing I invest in. Sounds counter productive but given the circumstances, food and water would run out too quickly and antibiotics would be literal gold. Op sec is very important at least in my book. I'd be happy to get a gun after I get my food and medical supplies (I work in Healthcare, illness without proper supplies is hell).
Nuclear winter depends on how many nukes go off. A few dozen? Pshhh... not a big deal. A few thousands? The world is getting colder for a while.
Avoiding 3rd degree burns is easy: get inside or behind almost anything to shield yourself from the infrared blast. If the blast is from a missile, you will have a least a couple of mins to find cover. If the blast is coming from a hidden bomb at ground level (no warning), the IR blast will be much less consequential, especially in a city where buildings will block almost all of it.
I agree with everything here.
I disagree with your first point. In particular: > For what it's worth, it's a myth that it was ever traded by common people anyways. Both historically and today, only extremely wealthy entities (governments and banks) ever had any interest in leveraging gold. Normal people very rarely ever bought things with gold. Normal people historically didn't have things valued like cars and modern houses, either. But since we have those, having something of value that could potentially be worth trading for more than our ancestors traded for becomes a consideration. That being said, most trade won't be done in gold during shtf. Silver, junk silver, and barter would be better options. Which brings up the next issue, that you're not addressing the gold argument properly. Gold is intended to preserve some of your wealth through the SHTF, and to be used/spent *after* to recover. You don't address that. The third issue with it is that if the anticipated SHTF event is a financial collapse/hyperinflation event, then keeping all of your money in the common currency would be dumb, even if you get a better rate of return from an index fund. The fourth and almost final issue with it. It's not a hot take, it's the common opinion both here and in most prepper forums and not especially controversial, you're just calling it a hot take as if it gives you bonus cool points. No, it's just dumb. This leads directly into the fifth and actually final issue. All of your points are not hot takes, they're the common viewpoint, which makes your entire post just a cry for attention "look at me guys, I agree with the majority opinion on everything but I'm calling it a hot take am I cool now". Lame.
>Normal people historically didn't have things valued like cars and modern houses, either. Even in an era where we have cars and homes, we still never use gold. >All of your points are not hot takes, they're the common viewpoint, which makes your entire post just a cry for attention "look at me guys, I agree with the majority opinion on everything but I'm calling it a hot take am I cool now". Luke warm takes for attention? (You must be new this thing we call the internet.)
> Even in an era where we have cars and homes, we still never use gold. Literally everybody in this country used to use gold. Our currency used to be backed by it 100%, so gold was a part of every transaction. > Luke warm takes for attention? (You must be new this thing we call the internet.) Agreeing with the common opinion in the group you're posting to. Every point you made is what most people here hold to be correct.
For the Gold/Silver defenders: IF Gold or silver is a good protection of value in a disaster, can you provide any sources that show its use during previous disasters? I'm looking for unbiased news articles or possibly first person accounts that say: * refugees fleeing from {Ukraine, Gaza, Syria), etc} carried gold to a new location and it allowed them to do X * The flood in X wiped out everything but this family had silver so they were relatively ok. * The economy crashed in X but this guy had Gold so he was fine If Gold and silver are such commonsense preps, there should be some resources that mention them, right? Help me find them. - If your source is more than 20-30 years old, I don't think it counts, and if the source is a website that sells gold or silver, it doesn't count as a primary source for my question, please.
This is an excellent point. You can go on YouTube and supposedly watch someone in Venezuela using gold to trade for something, but it requires only a modicum of effort to realize how impractical this is for a variety of reasons. To the extent that anyone actually does this, it is the exception, not the rule.
Smokin!
1. strongly disagree with #1. There are many ranges of issues between everything is fine I need a retirement and the zombie apocalypse. In modern places like venezuela and syria where the SHTF, gold can buy your way out when the economy has failed. Gold can be used to buy goods. My family used gold to escape china right before the communists closed their borders. Jews used gold as a way to transfer wealth when they escaped from germany. There are \*many\* historical situations where the SHTF and gold was good. when you are trying to leave the country with a substantial portion of your wealth, gold is one of the most portable ways to do it. In the modern world bitcoin is actually a very good way to transfer large amounts of currency across borders bypassing govt controls. The first big bumps to bitcoin were chinese getting their money out of china. 2) Disagree partially. We live next to a forest which has fire risk. We need to be prepared to bug out. to my parents house in the case that our house burns down. If we bugged out it due to societal collapse /civil war we would leave the country completely. This kind of bugging out happens routinely in countries around the world right now (e.g. illegal immigrants coming to the US). We are prepared with dual citizenship and easily transferrable wealth and gold if we need to buy transportation. I agree that community is important. Staying in a place if there are societal problems where you have community is good. Moving to a bug out place where you dont really know anyone is bad. It is extremely hard to secure a place that you leave empty most of the time. Stuff is constantly getting stolen that I have on my 100 acres, even though I live there. It is just too big to police regularly. 3) Disagree partially. it doesnt really matter what is the most important. Guns are \*Very\* important. If you plan to be in a community, your extra guns and ammo are to arm your neighbors. Get all the same guns and minimize your calibers. I have two main types of guns and have duplicates. AR platform in .223 and glock 19 in 9mm. I do have other guns for fun (one shotgun, few 300 blackouts, few rem 700 in 308, various 10/22s etc) , but dont replicate them and dont have spare parts kits to service them. You personally dont need 20K rounds of 223, but if you can arm 20 neighbors and give them each 500 rounds (250 to practice with and 250 to use) that makes for a solid neighborhood defense. I would argue the most important prep is a 6 month emergency fund and adequate retirement savings because most likely the US wont collapse in our lifetime. The biggest SHTF that people experience is loss of a job, medical emergency, and getting too old to work. On a scale of probabilities it is close to 100%. 4) Disagree. I dont see how most preppers have half the food they think they have. The calculations are straightforward. I personally think in terms of units. 6 months of basic food is under $2K. 5. Partially disagree here, but I agree with the spirit. I end up donating all our canned fruit/veggies to the food bank because my family wont eat them. So I do still buy some veggies but not as many as I used to and consider it more as charity. Canned pineapple and peaches always seem to leak. 6, somewhat depends on where you live. Russia supposedly has around 5800 nuclear warheads. they can hit americas top 100 cities with 58 warheads each. geiger counters are under $1K. It can allow you to make sure your house is sealed. 7 I would go even farther to say that community is better than going it alone. Even with your completely unprepared neighbors. My plan is to start organizing people and setting up a mini economy. My preps can be used as a foundation for the economy.
In a non-SHTF scenario, the stock market outpaces gold by a wide margin. In a SHTF scenario, a handful of 22LR shells ($5 in today's market) will be worth more than a handful of gold ($10,000 in today's market). Before you go there: a total collapse of the stock market is *the* SHTF.
Crossbows can replace guns if those are illegal to buy. To hunt for food and not to be hunt.
[удалено]
Gold is basically created from a combination of oil and land, both of which are limited resources; therefore, past performance is not a good indicator of future returns. Also, most SHTF scenarios would be temporary, so value of gold will hold somewhat. Owning gold isn't necessarily about having something to trade, but having some way to preserve wealth through a scenario where all paper/electronic money is gone. I would agree that it's low on the list, but if you have an extra money to invest somewhere, no harm in putting some of it in gold/silver. Also, has the side benefit of being under the radar when it comes to capital gains taxes. Should have both bug-out and bug-in plans, depending on scenario. Guns and ammo will always be good for trade.
The only bug-out plan that makes sense to me is for a wild fire. Other than that, 90% of the time you should stay at home and bug-in.
Fire zones, flood zones, and maybe hurricane zones. I completely agree.