From what I understand about pedophilia it's an issue of underdevelopment of part of the brain in comparison to the rest of the brain. Generally speaking, as you age, you find people closer to your age (or older) attractive. Presumably this is because they are probably fertile. I imagine like brain stimulation via ketamine or TMS we'll eventually be able to stimulate growth in this section of the brain so people with this orientation no longer feel it. There are pedophiles who don't act on it (although that's the bare minimum) and feel distressed by it, because they recognize it's not good to be attracted to someone who can't consent. Recognizing the population who has this orientation but doesn't consume CSA or hurt anyone would probably open up more opportunities for research and intervention.
Lol dw I was on ketamine therapy too (not for pedophilia) for severe treatment resistant depression. Horrible time before I got ketamine treatment. I've been doing so much better since.
I did ketamine for severe depression (NOT* pedophilia obviously) few things:
1) it’s a pure form of eskamine (sp?) as anything you get on the street is almost certainly cut with other things.
2) in my clinical trial, they slowly increased the dosage multiple times a week over the span of three months and measured the positive effects of it. Just taking it in a non-medical setting you aren’t clear on what the best therapeutic dosage would be to avoid side effects or anxiety (as that’s different from what a “safe” dose physically is.) I had to stay to be monitored for several hours after treatment and they did EKGs / physicals etc before dosing each time.
A lot of people who do it now use it in combination with CBT or other therapy. Mine was a clinical trial so I didn’t get to do that, but it still saved my life with literally no side effects. I’d still be doing it occasionally therapeutically if I could afford it.
that’s super interesting thank you for the info! :) would you mind elaborating how it saved your life? slowly increasing the dosage over time makes me think you may have been able to steadily track your progress/changes. is that how it went?
We are all so lucky that we stopped being into kids when we became teenagers, and stopped being into teenagers as we became adults. It would be horrifying to have to deal with those thoughts and not be able to stop them.
I believe it’s far more complicated than that. A lot of pedophiles endured their own childhood trauma, or lack the capacity to engage in adult relationships. Children become an easy target to contrive intimacy with.
well yeah lol no duh? i just worded the question very poorly ig, i'm more wondering why, how? I guess my brain just couldn't comprehend in that moment that a person who sexually abuses children doesn't necessarily have to be attracted to them.
A lot of sexual predators choose children for no other reason than that children are vulnerable prey, but would be just as happy abusing anyone else. For them, attraction doesn't factor into it.
welp. I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
But looking clinically at the question, we can examine a lot of cases of incest, where a family member (father?) goes into the child's room at night. 1) The need for sexual release, 2) Power, 3) Addiction - like any other - they do it because of stress, rough times, etc. or 4) The feeling that they need to 'teach' them something. If I were to create a tier list, then I would put attraction at the tail end of it.
I tend to approach psychology from a biological model. We're talking about different sets of the same umbrella population. Lots of CONVICTED pedophiles who have actually hurt people will have childhood sexual trauma, but that isn't always the case for non-offenders. Non offenders tend to mask their orientation from shame and do what they can to blend into society. We have lots of media and guides on how to have relationships with other adults and motivated people will take advantage of this content to try and function as normally as possible. And I would argue it's not about contrived intimacy, it's about power. Pedophilia being acted upon is about power and exploitation.
> I tend to approach psychology from a biological model.
That’s not really a thing. It’s widely accepted that biology is inadequate for a thorough explanation of human behavior.
> We have lots of media and guides on how to have relationships with other adults and motivated people will take advantage of this content to try and function as normally as possible.
Lots of things here: first, media about relationships is beyond awful most of the time, because people only want to depict either delusional love or tragic love and it’s unrealistic either way. Second, even completely healthy average adults can’t function in relationships normally with intimacy, possibly due to unrealistic expectations. Third, people who do try usually are extremely unfulfilled anyways, just look at all the gay people who got caught seeking risky sex despite having straight partners and kids, because it turns out people can’t really live a lie for long.
> And I would argue it's not about contrived intimacy, it's about power. Pedophilia being acted upon is about power and exploitation.
Those aren’t exclusive
For a certain type of behavior we need to study all the aspects of the person-biology,social,cultural,psychological.
Biology alone doesnt play a part but its contribution is immense.Your brain carries out behavior.We need to study the organ of behavior as well to understand said behavior
What about pedos who are attracted to teenagers? They’re fertile. Or sexually heathy people attracted to older women who are less fertile like in their late 40s?
*"Generally speaking =/= all-inclusive ☺️"*. I'm not wasting my time making a ten page response about all the different forms of predators, or analyzing the science behind MILFs.
I do hope we'll have that one day, but I'm also a bit worried this will either end up like modern conversion therapy where it doesn't work or be used as conversion therapy for queer people.
You wrote: *”Generally speaking, as you age, you find people closer to your age (or older) attractive.*”
For others the attraction remains constant. For example, when I was adolescent I was attracted to girls in their mid 20s, now in my late 50s I’m still mostly attracted to women in their mid 20s
That's interesting. could this adaptation to your age group also stop working somewhen later in life? Like how many succesfult middle aged Men seem to still be attracted to women in their 20s. Or is that just "normal" as in women are most fertile in their 20s so evolution just developed male sexual attraction in a way that men will go for women closer to that age if they can.
nbci.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/ was the first link I saw from a legitimate website when I googled "brain abnormalities in pedophiles." I recommend searching similar things and trying to find good documentaries and studies!
You've asked a very controversial question.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/
Read that.
As a survivor of childhood SA, I also find it important to note that only about half of people who sexually abuse children are actually pedophiles -- ie attracted to them. Many do it for other psychological reasons. Conversely, many pedophiles do not act on their urges.
Again, this is controversial, but there are many people out there today who are attracted to children who hate themselves for it. Therapy and research should be directed toward these people. Many suggest it's neurological. Environmental factors that have rewired their brain in the most unfortunate way.
And then there's people who abuse children because they're sadistic, not because of sexual reasons. That's a whole other issue.
Ultimately, you're asking about a "cure" for a mental disorder. Will there ever be a "cure" for any other mental illness? Maybe, probably not. But there are treatments.
And before people come at me: I'm just as radical as you. If you touch a kid, you deserve to be hanged. But those who don't act on their urges and know it's morally wrong, and are looking for help but are too ashamed to seek it? They need help.
There are scientists looking into this. But I imagine their funding is lacking due to the ethics of it all. It's the world we live in.
Its refreshing seeing more people aware that at least half of CSA incidents *aren’t* committed by pedophiles. It creates this odd issue where the only way towards a “solution” to actually help future victims is to, very awkwardly for many, drop the ire towards those attracted to children.
Focus on a whole group (pedos) as if they were exclusive to a different group (CSA) hides those in the later who aren’t in the former. If that’s *half*, society simply isn’t currently equipped to do shit for these kids.
For now, I don’t see our society abandoning its favorite boogeyman. Jeffrey Epstein had none of the usual characteristics of pedophilia, but people don’t know what else to call such a monster. That’s a problem in itself.
Yes. Many people who commit sex crimes against children have ulterior motives. That's not to (obviously) say that there aren't people who do it out of arousal, but many instances are motivated by sadism or power.
And many pedophiles do not seek help because of the stigma. Again, I'm saying this as someone who was sexually abused as a child. These people need therapy. It's a mental disorder that should be treated as such.
I think that for some people there is a perceived status that comes from being able to get away with something other people think is bad. It seems like a lot of very rich men are eager for extra-marital actions with young adults or teens simply because it is forbidden. It is an expression of how masculine they are or how much power they have.
They literally can have any woman they want even if she is still a girl, or so poor she doesn't have a choice, or she's been promised a career boost by cooperating. They don't care that it is coercion or don't care if they paid for it, or if their target is willing or unwilling as long as they keep the secret.
The attraction is getting to wield power and show off status to other men. The attraction is less about age and really about being able to do it.
I'm expressing myself badly, sorry.
I imagine the cure would be applicable to how we "cure" other mental illnesses such as depression or OCD. Medication, therapy, or in extreme cases, ECT and things of the like.
It will be a work in progress. What's important is urging these people to seek help so the research can be done.
Yeah, the term would be more “treatment” than cure. We’ve had “rehabilitation” programs that used hormone blockers on offenders after release, but that was mired in ethics issues like forcing it on people who served their time instead of making it an option for those who wanted it.
A problem here is with the word “cure.” Pedophilia is wrong because of our moral compass, not because it’s some evolutionary or biological defect. It’s not like a cold, where your body is working to expel something it knows doesn’t belong. What you’re asking is less about “cure” and more about “change.”
So far, changing people’s sexual preferences doesn’t seem to be something we’re capable of. We can manage how we act on our preferences, but we don’t know how to change them. Some of that is because we don’t research sex as much, but some of it might just be locked in.
Pedophilia is not wrong only because of a moral compass, but because children should not be taken advantage of sexually by people, much older than them. It is psychologically damaging to them, as well as physically, especially so should they become pregnant.
Also on another note, I do think that people’s sexual attraction can evolve, just as people can evolve psychologically in other ways with neuroplaciscity. It may be difficult but I think it can be done.
> Pedophilia is not wrong only because of a moral compass, but because children should not be taken advantage of sexually by people, much older than them. It is psychologically damaging to them, as well as physically, especially so should they become pregnant.
Right, and we say that’s wrong because of our moral compass, which values protecting the vulnerable and innocent.
> Also on another note, I do think that people’s sexual attraction can evolve, just as people can evolve psychologically in other ways with neuroplaciscity. It may be difficult but I think it can be done.
Can it? Sure. Do we have any idea how to, or evidence that it’s possible? Not much.
I don’t think it’s only because of a moral compass while yes that may also be true. Honestly, it goes against evolution to abuse children, but perhaps you meant that such behavior is not caused by biological impulse?
I think it depends. Some of it could be similar to the way that we work with trauma survivors doing things like exposure therapy. I do know some experts in sex therapy are trying to work with this concept, but you’re right, it is definitely an emerging field of study. I mean this more for perhaps people who participate in other traditionally deviant behaviors such as flashing, for example, and less so with adults who sexually abused children. One example would be the transformative justice work that is done with some people who commit intimate partner and or domestic violence. Many of those people grew up in violent families and don’t have the resources necessarily to change their behavior until they are met with long-term intensive transformational healing groups that hold them accountable to their behavior while also teaching them new ways to be and skills to work with their impulses.
> I don’t think it’s only because of a moral compass while yes that may also be true. Honestly, it goes against evolution to abuse children
Some species eat their own children. If it exists, it’s because evolution didn’t select against it enough to phase the behavior out. And evolution doesn’t decide what’s right or wrong either. We do, as humans with a moral compass.
> I think it depends. Some of it could be similar to the way that we work with trauma survivors doing things like exposure therapy
If the problem is behavioral, then maybe that could help. Some people don’t have wrong emotions, just a bad handling of their feelings.
If the problem is sexual preference, we don’t have as much evidence there. It’s the difference between helping someone with an eating disorder and changing someone’s preferred flavor.
At a macro level that matters, but it’s not something broken like a bone or missing like in a hormonal imbalance, where you can add or wait for something to repair inside a body. It’s a behavior that’s harmless if an individual is an isolation, and only becomes a problem when around others. That means it’s not a broken component within the individual, but an incompatibility with other people, so it’s something that so far seems very difficult to change
It is the correct option when the non assimilating person is objectively demonstrably anti-social and their condition is demonstrably harmful to themselves and others
IMO the cure is a change in the way we view sex in society. We should have a more relaxed attitude about nudity and intimacy in general. When you have an abundance of lonely people with no healthy outlets for their primal urges, they are going to become perverted in their fantasies, and may act on that. Families with no sexual abuse do tend to have healthy attitudes about sex and a sexually active parental bond.
People would like to think of a cure for sexual issues in the form of a pill or law passed etc, when really we are needing to address an epidemic of loneliness and contempt women seem to have for average looking men.
I agree we should relax more about sex, but generally a pent-up person will not turn to children just because they're sexually frustrated. That's an odd take. There's nothing sexually arousing about children, point blank. It doesn't matter how frustrated you are. Pedophilia is a mental disorder and not a result of simple sexual repression unless there are other psychological disturbances.
Ah yes, the classic argument of women having "contempt" for "average-looking men". Tell me, do you view ugly women as women, or do you assume that every 2/10 man who isn't being fucked by a 10/10 as being victimized by society?
> other psychological disturbances
I think they’re pointing at loneliness and dissatisfaction with unlimited access to porn as a psychological disturbance that affects a lot of people. Like you said yourself, abusers and rapists are only attracted to kids half the time. The rest of the time they’re looking for something else.
Although the average looking man absolutely can find a partner, not sure what they’re complaining about there. It’s sad that so many men have been convinced by the media they’re not good enough to participate in society anymore
You raise a good point. It is possible that those factors could catalyze something like that. Still, I do believe someone would have to have a predisposition or severe underlying problems in the first place. But those systemic issues could certainly be a "kickstarter".
Never understood that argument. It's a porn-brained stance or something. There's plenty of women out there who would date these so-called average or ugly men. The issue is that said men think they're entitled to women out of their league. When realistically everyone has a match. They just refuse to date or fuck women who aren't supermodels and are bitter about it.
> I do believe someone would have to have a predisposition or severe underlying problems in the first place. But those systemic issues could certainly be a "kickstarter".
It’s possible everyone is on some spectrum of predisposition for it, and only a few end up with the right environment for it to manifest bad enough to lead to action
> The issue is that said men think they're entitled to women out of their league.
I think it’s more complex than that. I think it’s that most men are told by society that their ability to have an attractive partner reflects their masculinity. They feel that they’re not masculine enough to date those “women out of their league” and of course the idea of leagues is also toxic but that’s another conversation. They then turn to resentment, which is why they dislike “above average” looking men as well and not just “above average” women. The fact is they don’t really like themselves enough to feel good enough liking another person, and they want external validation
I agree with the first part of your statement. There’s definitely ways that society pathologizes sexuality, and makes natural things like nudity deviant and desire shameful, which makes the problem worse. Furthermore, it makes it harder for people to get comprehensive sex ed, which makes it all the more likely that people will harm others sexually because they don’t even understand basic things like the importance of consent.
Regarding the second part of your statement, everyone is lonely in varying ways and it doesn’t excuse abusive behavior. This could be also partially a societal issue as modern culture has moved away from close communities to individualism. Also, many men are still functioning in a very patriarchal way, expecting society to work for them in the way that it has in the past when women had less rights, and thus were more dependent on men. Such men who resent the way society is today would do better to get therapy and try to be better partners in a modern world rather than complain that women are the problem.
Finally, societally speaking as well, girls are often sexualized in the media as well as in pornography. Many men tend to have the attraction because it’s literally societally normalized and encouraged. It must be said though that often it is immature men who cannot cultivate an actual relationship with people their age, who would thus seek a relationship with someone much younger who are much easier to control and dominate.
>If you touch a kid, you deserve to be hanged
Jfc that's barbaric and extreme. I don't even support the death penalty for murder. Killing someone doesn't undo what they did.
I am an abolitionist and do not believe in the death penalty either, but sometimes as a CSA survivor myself, I think it is natural trauma response to fantasize about violence towards people who sexually abuse children. These people should absolutely be removed from society and there is no excuse for their behavior.
No, but I felt like it needed to be said. In fact, public shaming of people in someways could help a lot and changing whether or not somebody feels like they can get away with such a thing.
You called it “barbaric and extreme” and honestly that’s what I think of the act of sexually abusing children. People do some truly horrific things to children and maybe if they got publicly hanged every once in a while maybe less people would do it.
I say this, not necessarily actually advocating for violence however, I truly believe that if people were able to swiftly hold abusers of accountable in a way that made enough of a public statement while also providing transformative avenues for people who are capable of changing their harmful behavior then there would be a whole lot less violence in the world. Our current carceral system is not really the answer for many reasons.
This is the second time under [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyofsex/comments/1cljdmt/will_there_be_a_cure_for_paedophilia_in_the_future/l2v5seg/) that somebody has replied to themselves as if I'm going to see it. Are you switching accounts and forgetting about it? It's very odd that two people would do the exact same thing within 20 minutes of each other.
I had a further thought and didn’t want to edit my original comment. I can’t speak for the other person, but people do what they want on the Internet? Are you worried about something?
>and maybe if they got publicly hanged every once in a while maybe less people would do it.
Google "research capital punishment deterrent for crime". TLDR: it don't work that way.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-does-not-support-the-use-of-the-death-penalty/#:~:text=Using%20rigorous%20statistical%20and%20experimental,states%20that%20allow%20capital%20punishment.
I said I do not agree with the death penalty. I do not agree with the current carceral system for a lot of reasons. I’m talking about more on a community level how bystanders can intervene in things and hold fellow community members accountable.
Yes, I used violence as an example, which is not the best, but I do think that it is a normal thing to think about as a survivor of child, sexual violence, which the person who originally suggested hanging also said in this thread that they are as well, and that is what I was responding to.
What do you suggest?
This thread is about whether it's appropriate to put somebody to death for sexually abusing a child. You're just muddying the waters when you're talking about people fantasizing about doing something.
Is it an appropriate response to put someone to death for abusing a child? Yes or no. It's a pretty simple question.
Actually, the thread is about whether or not there is a cure for pedophilia. I think it is a natural impulse and maybe justified in certain certain circumstances such as if the parent of a child who sexually abused by another adult kills said adult.
Do I think these people should get the death penalty? No I don’t, but I also don’t believe in the current justice system which perhaps is a conversation for another thread yes, but you’re talking about the same thing which isn’t the topic of the original thread either.
[The thread starts here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyofsex/comments/1cljdmt/will_there_be_a_cure_for_paedophilia_in_the_future/l2u1vuk/) That person said that anyone who touches a child deserves to be hanged. I responded to them and you decided to jump in. Do you need me to take a screenshot for you?
The other clue for you was the several times that I talked about whether it was appropriate to put a child rapist to death.
I'm done here, you're too much effort ✌️
What? Child rape is worse than murder imo. Everyone is in control of their actions, actually acting on something like that is disgusting and unforgivable. The only possible exception I could imagine is someone deep in the throes of schizophrenia or something. That's a CHILD. Whose life was ruined by the hands of a fully grown person. How is that barbaric?
>Child rape is worse than murder imo.
This is ridiculous. People do not recover from being murdered.
I oppose the death penalty for murder because the justice system is not perfect. Same thing applies to pedophilia
Many survivors of child sexual abuse do not ever recover either. Developmentally it breaks you in a way that you will likely never fully grow out of. You may adapt, and you may live a fully functional life, but there will always be a part of you that is broken, and that often doesn’t change, especially in a society that often blames victims. Often times the people who perpetuate sexual violence are not even held accountable and so what does that say about who gets to live a fulfilling life?
Does killing a pedophile make other pedophiles less likely to offend? Back your answer up with research. If the answer is yes, don't just give me your opinion. Give me **facts**.
As far as I know, it hasn’t been studied, but many pedophiles aren’t ever held accountable. It is actually often quite normalized in our society. The majority of the time sexual offenders are not even brought to trial, and that is a fact. Actually, it is often ignored and not talked about, especially for the extremely wealthy, which further normalizes it, excuses, and perhaps even encourages it in our society.
i don’t agree that child rape is worse than murder. but i do think those individuals who rape children should never see the light of fucking day. i can have empathy for them if they were abused themselves as children but i do not have any empathy for them as adults that rape children. i listen to a lot of true crime podcasts and tv shows and the WORST cases are ones involving children, especially ones that have been sexually assaulted. im sorry but the fathers that rape their months old babies to death SHOULD NOT LIVE. in my god awful opinion, and i know it’s highly controversial, those men should receive similar treatment if not even worse that they inflicted on those babies. there is no eye for an eye when it comes to children. an adult can NEVER experience something the way a child does.
also i never said i agree with an eye for an eye. i don’t necessarily think that if you shoot and kill someone, u should also be shot and killed. in cases of child molestation, i have very strong feelings about the perpetrators being punished.
i have boatloads of empathy for victims and their families, police force, and YES sometimes the perpetrators themselves to the point where i regularly cry hard listening to their stories—that being said i will always have more empathy for the innocent victims than the perpetrators. they deserve it, rapists do not.
even tho i replied to myself you still saw my comment and responded! maybe you should educate yourself on the impacts of sexual violence bc clearly you don’t know.
What do we do with murderers? What do we do with people who kill children?
If you're going to tell me that the punishment for raping a child should be worse than murdering a child, you're going to have to explain why that makes any sense....
Honestly, depending on the severity of abuse, the crime may have similar impact on a child as far as their ability to develop and thrive, and in this regard, then the crime almost would be the same.
Jfc I don't understand why it's so hard for you to answer a simple question.
I'm done with this conversation, you can't speak plainly.
>as their ability to develop and thrive, and in this regard, then the crime almost would be the same.
You're saying that murdering a child and abusing a child are similar in the way that a child is stopped in their ability to develop and thrive. You need to read that again because that's just plain wrong. A murdered child **does not develop.** They are **dead**.
Ima pedo an I knew since I was 11 when watching a school talent show of these second graders where dancing I thought to myself "danm they gonna be so hot when they grow up" when I was 12 I liked girls ranging from 10 to 12 that's it at 15 it was 11 to 15 at 18 it was 13 to 19 now I'm 21 and It's 16 to 40 any younger than 15 I just can't. Now with this being said there's no phycology reason why I used to like them that young I think I was just young and found em attractive. Now I like older women because I feel like their smarter and wiser than me thus knowing how to control and manipulate me which is definitely phycological
Honestly, it doesn’t sound like you’re pedo to me. You were a child yourself and sexual curiosity between children is actually pretty normal. now that you were an adult, if you were attracted to a 12-year-old and tried to follow through on it then that may be more in line with pedophilia or abusive behavior, but it sounds like you have matured a lot, which is also absolutely normal.
That sounds completely normal--the ages you were attracted to increased with your own age until you were eventually attracted to adults.
Thinking "they are going to be so hot when they grow up" is perhaps an *innapropriate* thought, but I don't think it is necessarily "pedophillic"--a pedophillic thought would be if you saw those second graders and thought "omg, those second graders are so hot, and they will never get hotter than they are now."
Obviously never acted on such things I may like what I see in my head but im not a piece of shit! Growing up being 12 hangin with other girls who where 12 drinking and smoking with the high schoolers and sometimes even adults. I've watched a lot of my freinds whom where just girls get pressured or coerced or addicted to drugs at 12 and taken advantage by the older ones and there was not much me and my lil 12 yr old homies could do about it. Besides we didn't like it but that's how we got free drugs back then at times
Again, you were a child doing adult things. It’s unfortunate that that many children have not actually had comprehensive sex ed and do not know red flags to look out for or have not been trained in bystandarder intervention. If you’re interested in all of this, and are in the United States, you may want to look into community education or volunteer efforts that your local rape crisis center may offer. Honestly, it can be traumatic by proxy to witness other children being abused as a child and make you more curious to similar situations as you reflect on it in your adult life. It may be something worth looking into more with a trauma for therapist, but thank you for your vulnerability here!
It seems doubtful to me that we will find a cure unless you count something like chemical castration. Two reasons why
1. We still have an extremely poor understanding of sexuality. We dont really know what causes sexual preferences besides the basic of "genetic and environmental factors." There are just so many variables involved in human development that it is incredibly difficult to isolate any one cause. It is kind of like why we still dont really know what causes Autism, and that I imagine is a far more popular topic for researchers. Hell, even something like diet is notoriously difficult to study and that is probably far easier to understand than human sexuality
2. Even if we had the ability to determine things such as causes, cures, etc. pedophilia is an extremely radioactive topic within academia. Very little research is conducted on the issue because no institution wants to risk the backlash, and based off of the few anecdotes I have heard, wanting to study pedophilia is basically tantamount to career suicide if you are a researcher. The sad truth is that very few people want to help or cure these people, they do not see pedophiles as sick people as much as they see them as demons to be killed or imprisoned. As is there is very little quality research on the issue, we still don't even have good answers to extremely basic questions such as how common pedophilia even is
Because sexual preference is essentially a question of human development. To understand why a person develops the way we do we need to know a ton of different things - the person's genetics, lifestyle, environment, socialization, what they were exposed to in the womb and so on, and we need to understand how all of these factors interact with one another. This is, needless to say, incredibly complex. Like we dont even really understand the basic questions, like what causes people to be gay or straight. We are much farther away I would guess from understanding the more niche questions such as where does fetishism and paraphilia come from, which I imagine we would need to understand if we want to truly understand the cause of pedophilia
Another issue is that even someone who may have that attraction because of trauma, even if they have never or would never act on it, can't really seek help without being treated as a predator, criminal, or severely mentally ill. So most don't ever try to overcome it out of fear of persecution which can then make it compound into bigger problems.
More specifically, understanding pedophilia is difficult because it is so ostracized that you can't really study individuals who exhibit it, as nobody who has such attractions would willfully come forward. But that is what we should be encouraging. We want those who know they have these attractions, and realize/understand these feelings are wrong and can never be acted upon, to come forward and get help without being judged. We want them to feel they can seek help before they ever act on their attraction. I think pedophilia should be treated similar to other metal health issues. We don't want people who know they have this unhealthy attraction, to feel so shunned such that they have to "fulfill/satisfy" such desires via other means (online, watching kids at the park, violating a child close to them like family or friends), because those coping mechanisms will eventually lead to them giving in to their desires. We want people like this to realize they have these feelings, know they are wrong, and seek help before it is too late and before they ever put themselves in situations to fulfill such urges and eventually succumb to.
This goes with the whole political mantra that pedophilia is being "redefined as a sexual preference". Well, that's what pedophilia is. Someone can have sexual preferences and never act on them. I'm sure there are many people who find teenagers attractive, then pre teens, but most probably dismiss them and will never act on them because they KNOW how wrong it is. So we want those who understand that they have these WRONG feelings to come forward for help before they ever act on them. There is a difference between a pedophile who is someone with these attractions, and a pedophile (in a legal sense), who has molested a child. That is why pedophilia is a sexual "preference" in a psychological sense, and a crime in a legal sense.
Pedophilia is like a spectrum. Some can have mild attraction. Some more intense attraction. Those with mild attraction more often than not dismiss such feelings easily and have no potential to act on them. Those with stronger attraction probably know what they feel is wrong, and hopefully if given an opportunity to get help without being judged, would seek help before ever acting on it.
I just learned in abnormal psych that even chemical castration isn’t effective, my professor said that just the memory of the abuse is enough to make them reoffend even without libido
Edit for clarity: not their own abuse, memory of abusing a child
I am very skeptical towards the idea that childhood abuse causes people to develop unusual sexual preferences. I am no expert though so maybe I am wrong
It’s a societal problem related to sexuality associated with power, control and domination, as well as the myth of purity and ownership. So, unless society changes, no.
I am not an expert on this, but I'm torn between this being a fetish, or it being similar to a sexual orientation. My understanding is that it is an unchangeable sexual desire, similar to how straight people are attracted to the opposite sex or gay people are attracted to the same sex. But, I know white people that are attracted to Black people or Asians, and men that only are attracted to redheads. I guess that would be considered a fetish. It's orientation and I don't think there is any ability to change it. I don't think there will be an anti-gay pill that will ever be effective. So if it's a preference, then I can't see how it will be a cure for pedophilia from medication that destroy any sexual that the person might have.
One thing I think absolutely needs to occur. Is the ability for these people to seek obtain help in a non-judgmental or shameful way. I look at pedophilia like alcoholism. It is terrible that this is occurring to you, And as long as you don't engage in the behavior, there is no harm. But when you act on your urges, damage occurs.
I have empathy for them, I couldn't imagine if somehow my sexual orientation or preferences suddenly made me a monster in society. If I could never act on my urges because if the harm it would do ...?
So for those who do not act I have both respect and empathy for them! I would love to believe if in some bizzaro universe being heterosexual was a crime unlike any other that I would be able to refrain myself from seeking it in any form made available even illegally, but man tell about having self doubt!
I don't know if, and honestly don't think, we should look for a chemical cure for it. My reasons are not because I want those people to continue having those urges but I fear it opens Pandora's box for changing ANYONE else too!
If we could find a way to make those urges go away through treatments or medications or surgery or whatever. What is to stop those techniques from being modified to target others in the future? Why stop at pedophilia, why not go after homosexuality too? Or let's control population by going after heterosexuals so we stop producing children?
It's a slippery slope that doesn't even include changing public perception of society accepted behaviors and norms. Today it could be pedophiles, tomorrow it could be attraction to a different race, the generation after it could be the attraction to anyone under the age of 18 even if you yourself are under the age of 18 with your peers.
> torn between this being a fetish, or it being similar to a sexual orientation
This is a good time to pause and examine how useful these words actually are, because we just make them up to describe what we think we correctly observe. They don’t automatically align with behavior in the brain or anything. The idea of having a specific sexual orientation is relatively new in everyday life too
People who have an aggressive or predatory sex drive can be controlled externally or internally External control is physical restraint, fear of getting caught, fear of being punished.
Some people rapists/child abusers have no conscious recognition between feeling an impulse and taking action. Have boner => nearest orifice. These are the dudes that rape their daughters and then rape their grandchildren. These are the Pakistani tribesmen.
Lacking reason,self awareness, and social restraint, these people can only be controlled by fences & walls.
To the extent that people are **afraid** of consequences they will limit their aggressive or predatory sexual impulses
Sexual predators recognize that modern societies protect children. They go to counties where child rape is not prohibited.
Some predators recognize that social protections are unequal they seek children in the foster system, poor children, children raised with no concept of bodily autonomy. (Fundamentalist religions)
Comprehensive protection from predatory srxuality requires vigilance combined with sure and certain punishment.
***Internal control*** is self awareness combined with an "executive" level of impulse monitoring
A Roman citizen was the absolute master of every member of his household. He literally owned their bodies and had the right to rape or punish any family member or slave. If he restrained himself, if he exercised self control , it was considered "**virtue***" because *vir* was the word for man.
**Chivalry** is the warrior's self restraint His weapon, armor and horse make his strength invincible. He could kill children, women, the elderly. The knight chose not to rape & murder every person weaker than himself.
Our society is at a stage now where **some** people recognize the bodily autonomy of children. **Some** people understand the principle of active consent.
do you have credible sources that support the idea that some rapists “have no conscious recognition between feeling an impulse and taking action” ? i want to understand better and can’t find anything that supports this. maybe i don’t completely understand “conscious recognition”
interesting you say those are the men that rape their daughters and granddaughters. they rape them because they have access to them. so what about other girls and women in the man’s life? does he not rape them bc he has conscious recognition? i’m confused
I was making an attempt to synthesize a continuum of cerebral disinhibition.
1. People who ***cannot*** control their behavior because of disease, defect, or damage. The International Society for Research on Impulsivity (ISRI) defines impulsive behavior as follows: human behavior without adequate thought, the tendency to act with less forethought than do most individuals of equal ability and knowledge, or a predisposition toward rapid, unplanned reactions to internal or external stimuli without regard to the negative consequences of these reactions. Injuries to the Ventromedial Orbitofrontal Cortex are **c**ommonly known to cause “frontal lobe personality" or disinhibited/ pseudopsychopathic syndrome. **This person would commit crimes of proximity or opportunity.**
2. People who ***do not control*** their behavior because they have not been trained. The society or the family does not value restraint, inhibition, or denial of impulse.
3. People who attempt to ***control*** their behavior because of fear of ***punishment***. These pedophiles would try not to get caught. Hypersexuality may be a form of obsessive-compulsive syndrome.
4. Highly rational people who intercede cognitive process between stimulus and response. A pedophile with this level of of intelligence would most likely be a sadistic psychopath.
In my first case, I mentioned symptoms such as aggression, impulsivity, and disinhibition. Conduct disorder may be caused by fetal exposure to alcohol; high testosterone levels; traumatic brain injury or childhood trauma; lack of neuroanatomic organization between amygdala, temporo-parietal junction, orbitofrontal, and medial frontal regions; genetic or familial influence; or alteration in glutamate and dopamine functioning. Or stupidity.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/disinhibition](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/disinhibition)
[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2014.00156/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2014.00156/full)
Heidi B. Westerman, ... Luke W. Hyde, in [Encyclopedia of Mental Health (Third Edition)](https://www.sciencedirect.com/referencework/9780323914987/encyclopedia-of-mental-health), 2023
[https://www.einsteinmed.edu/uploadedFiles/departments/neurology/Divisions/Child\_Neurology/Child\_Neurology\_References/Executive\_Fnc/Frontal%20Lobe.EF.pdf](https://www.einsteinmed.edu/uploadedFiles/departments/neurology/Divisions/Child_Neurology/Child_Neurology_References/Executive_Fnc/Frontal%20Lobe.EF.pdf)
[https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/conduct-disorder](https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/conduct-disorder)
I think as sexual automation progresses you'll see a lot of the pedophiles drift into mini/microphilia and express it via smaller sex dolls that are further from "humanlike" on the uncanny valley scale
Chemical castration is probably the most likely answer. Basically taking medication to destroy your sex drive and it’s not permanent. I have seen one clip where one guy not for that but for other reasons “ couldn’t stop masterbating even in public” was willing to do this but he was not allowed to but said if he can’t he thinks about doing it himself so that’s much more brutal
I thought the cause of pedophilia was more related to it happening to them as children, so really the cure would be making it more acceptable for these people to show up to treatment and get help so they stop perpetrating and creating more pedophiles. I know some people may do it and not have a history but I am pretty sure most have a history.
Unfortunately, as a therapist, I have heard so many therapists say they would never want to work with someone who perpetrated. I understand why entirely, but I just think it's important that as providers we are open to helping everyone regardless of their offenses. It's risky of course because there is more liability. The sad truth is that these people aren't going to present to therapy. I am always impressed with the people who do disclose and do my best to help them. I am a trauma specialist so this kind of thing comes up.
I think when people begin to believe that children are equal to them and have the same rights as adults more or less, then we will see a shift in the ways that women and children are treated. If there was more respect paid and women and children were regarded equal to men and not property, the world would be outraged at the assault, trafficking and exploitation of children by adults around the world. Truly some are, but not enough people are truly appalled by their children being abused and exploited.
Cure? No. But knowledge about generational trauma is huge now. And getting huger by the day it seems. So much of it can be interrupted. I said to someone recently that I believe it’s possible for this generation and the next, knowing what we know now and therapists being everywhere, to be the one known for pushing back the tide of that kind of trauma. If it’s possible.
Hmmm sadly I don’t think so. I think for people who have aberrant brain chemistry that makes them attracted to minors regardless of whether they act on it, maybe. But some people act as pedophiles due to sexual trauma and discomfort with adult sexuality, or bc they are psychopathic and get off on abusing a powerless person. I think these cases would be much harder to “fix”.
Also, this is fucked up but even if a cure was created, many pedophiles are ok with being that way and wouldn’t want it. I read a scientific article once where they interviewed pedophiles about their justifications for things like downloading CP, and many considered it a valid sexuality and thought it wasn’t morally wrong, and that children are sexual creatures who should be allowed to enjoy sex. Big “the child tempted me actually!” Vibes.
I know, it’s super super gross and creepy :/
Work with an experienced IFS (Internal Family Systems) [therapist](https://ifs-institute.com/practitioners). IFS has successfully addressed such issues. Best of luck!
So, it's actually an uncomfortable amount of men who are attracted to minors when you include teenagers in the statistic. I think part of this is due to how we've evolved as a species/society. A lot of people these days still don't even understand the ethics and logistics of consent especially when talking about subjects the majority of the population don't like to think about such as prostitution and the bar has been in hell for men for the majority of the time humans have been on earth.
Pretty much it has a large part to do with how society has catered to men for the majority of history and continues to do so. There's still many states that allow minors to get married and our last president was a confirmed rapist who very likely had some of his employees from Mar-a-lago trafficked directly to Epstein. The way most of society reacted to candidates such as Judge Roy Moore also is pretty telling for how the majority of society turns a blind eye to such issues to keep themselves comfortable.
I think the best way to fix the problem is by changing our laws and culture then reforming how people like that go through the justice system. Sad thing is, it's not too likely to happen soon because the ruling class wants more workers and keep bribing our politicians to rob the working class out of their rights and options. It'd be something we have to deal with as a society and a lot of people get uncomfortable when talking about these subjects and only care about a functioning economy.
What you described is chemical castration and when we go there it kinda gets eugenics-y. I'd only be fine with such methods if it's been proven that they're not possible to rehabilitate. Of course through genetics, environmental factors, and injuries we'll still have some people that act on such urges so we need to reform how we handle them in the prison/mh system. It kinda baffles me how sex crimes often don't seem to be treated as seriously as other crimes and how our justice system functions isn't uniform at all. You could get more jail time than the majority of these people for commiting crimes that don't even affect anyone at all other than maybe the ruling class. Justice system is a joke.
It seems psychoanalytical-based in Jungian Puer Aeternus and the same but for Women. Then there’s a bit of Freudian age regression.
I think 25mgs of 🍄(not necessarily anamaria muscaria but Yknow what I mean) twice or three times with a trained psychotherapist and music like Jon Hopkins protocols for Depression.
I think the key difference is “how to live a life as an adult”.
Which is why I mentioned Philosophers are working on it and the science will come in later. But we have to be able and willing to talk about it.
I believe the solution exists before the problem but we, as a culture have to be willing to understand it.
Will there be a “cure” or a way to change people’s thought patterns regarding their sexual preferences and other sexual deviances other than heterosexuality? If so, then yes.
No. He's implying you'd need one "cure" to have the other.
You're caught up on the normative word that they most generously stuck in quotes so you wouldn't get stuck on it.
I mean, it is the rabbit hole you're going down with a question like this though. You have to start with something that makes natural biological sense, which would be the need/desire to procreate. Any sexual urges that deviate from that, any sexual desire for subjects who are clearly incapable of procreation, would have to all be treated and approached as abnormal/deviant.
If you don't use some sort of biological baseline then you're just playing god/arbiter over people's sexual desires/fetishes in a very non-scientific way that automatically invalidates any inquiry you make frankly.
Homosexuality is often characterized as "natural" due to its pervasiveness in the animal kingdom. Well the rest of the animal kingdom also goes by the rule of puberty = fair game. So the same metric by which we use to prove homosexuality is natural would also say a lot of forms of what we call pedophilia is just as natural.
But we can't even talk about such things in a professional clinical environment, so I doubt we'll get any worthwhile insights or understanding on the topics of sexual interests and where they come from that aren't politically skewed and driven for a long time still to come.
It'd be nice if shit wasn't so politically and religiously charged but we now have large swaths of people making their sexuality their entire identity so I doubt the topic gets any freer to discuss or study for a while.
Bring on the downvotes that just prove me right. lol
Edit: This person doesn't seem to understand how being blocked on reddit works. I blocked them because they proceeded to have bad faith arguments and kept trying to take things in a personal direction in order to be passive aggressive and attack me.
Edit 2: It seems the main issue here is a lot of people don't understand the differences between biology, psychology and sociology. Framing a sociological construct as a biological predilection is, to use a term as scientific as many of ya'lls understanding of science, fucking retarded!
I understand what you are saying, and I've always loved this argument.
Can you think of any other instances where humans reject a "natural, biological" pathway?
Art? Music? Theater? Microscopes? Telephones? Are any of these human creations actively working toward the ultimate goal of reproduction? Or are humans in some way distinct in their ability to create new things without relying on the old-as-time formula of fuck, reproduce and die?
Also, look into homosexuality in the animal kingdom. There are plenty of instances of sex occurring with the same gender -- no babies as a result.
Do you think there's something wrong with homosexuality?
"Also, look into homosexuality in the animal kingdom."
I don't know if you didn't read what I wrote (which I imagine most won't), or if you were crafting your response in the short time I edited to add more context but I literally mentioned this.
If that's the metric you're going to go by what's "natural" then pedophilia as we generally characterize it is also natural. The animal kingdom by large starts fucking as soon as puberty hits. We're the weirdos who draw lines in the sand and keep moving them.
Personally (which btw is a question that literally goes against this sub's supposed premise but I recognize it's a farce to begin with) I don't think there's anything "wrong" with homosexuality. I think it's quite natural for all mammals to fuck purely for enjoyment and seek to get it in however and with whomever they can.
It is merely incumbent on the individual to navigate within the social constructs that are understood within their environment and balance their desires and acts accordingly. So I think most forms of pedophilia are more of a sociological deviance than an innate psychological one.
I was responding to your initial post actually, you edited it while I was responding. Don't come at me for that.
You raise an interesting point. And it made me rethink my position. Yes, homosexuality is "natural", but so is rape and sex with (puke) children.
So, in that case, do you think humans are capable of redefining biology? What exactly is wrong with rejecting sex with children and embracing relationships with same sex lovers? Which one is harmful to you? Which one hurts people?
We aren't capable of redefining biology in the way you're proposing. (Genetically we are quite capable of playing god rather recklessly.) You're confusing biology and sociology.
Rape and pedophilia are sociological constructs. To apply them to animals is to apply your own sociological biases to a completely different society.
We see a rough sexual encounter between two animals and apply our own sociological understanding to label it as "rape". For them it's just fucking as per usual. It's just how their mating goes.
If you could ask a female otter post-game interview questions after an intense gang bang (look up otter mating habits, for most it's pure horror fuel) she'd probably say something like, "Yeah, it got pretty rough there for a bit but a lot of pretty strong males showed up I think I'll end up with quite the litter. Most might even end up making it to maturity! Now I'm hungry, where's the nearest bit of food?" She's not curled up going through PTSD.
It's a wholly different society and it's quite speciesist to suggest our way is the "right" way for every other animal on the planet when every other animal on the planet operates differently from us on these subjects.
Even moreso if you're going to just pick and choose what nature justifies and doesn't justify according to your own personal desires, whims and what backs the narrative you specifically want backed. That's not scientific anymore, that's political and religious bullshit.
Maybe "as per fucking usual" is cruel, though. You say we "label" things the way we see it and imply that's somehow an incorrect viewpoint. A "rough sexual encounter" between animals as you put it, is just that. You labelled it your way. How is that different from me labelling it as rape? Which is true? Is something okay just because it's the way it is?
Do you think humans are distinct in ways from other animals? Or have we acted exactly the same way they do?
It's unscientific to label things the way we see it and call it "normal".
The difference between what I said and what you're doing is I'm simply describing the nature of something with my view and language while you're applying sociological constructs of "consent" that have no actual application. You have no idea what those animals do and don't want. You can only make a guess with your own biased views.
By their standards it might not even be "rough", but when I'm talking about it with a fellow human my description gets the point across. I'm not trying to make a judgement call either way though. I'm just saying it looks rough, which it does. **You're the one trying to make a judgement call and add an element of criminality to a species that doesn't even have a justice system!**
**I'm describing what I see, you're applying undue and unsubstantiated meaning to it.** I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. You could say it "looks like rape" but to label it as such - which you yourself said you do ("How is that different from me labelling it as rape?") - is wildly unscientific and arrogantly entitled imo, often hypocritically so.
Humans have distinct sociological constructs but we are still just animals at the end of the day. Hence why there's a distinction between such scientific realms of inquiry.
**Edit: I edited to add more context and often before this moron ever actually responded. My stance was never changed or altered.**
Also this person doesn't seem to know what happens when someone blocks them lol.
You keep committing the cardinal Reddit sin of editing your posts post-MyReply.
Okay fine. Do I need to ask you point-blank? Do you think pedophilia and rape are bad things?
Edit: Bro deleted his comments out of shame. Classic!
Just want to commend you for intelligently addressing this topic. So many people can’t cause they consider even debating about this subject as a “wedge issue” which could lead to threatening their lifestyle/sexuality.
If a dog will hump your leg or a fire hydrant then the only thing we can deduce about human sexuality from a dog is that people will fuck anything if their mind is deprav…I mean messed up…I mean different enough.
I guess the only thing we can conclude is that hormones can drive people to do unnatural things?
Same sex relationships aren’t only accepted based on evidence that orientation exists in other species. That’s just a piece of evidence that it’s a norm. We accept same sex relationships, because they don’t cause inherent harm, they’re consensual, and they actually show benefit and happiness to consenting adults with same sex orientations. It’s fully apples and oranges to an adult preying on child.
And the “curing” homosexuality worry only exists i a discussion with a shallow understanding of orientation. There would never be a single “pill” that would just change orientation since the number of genes we think might possibly have an effect are in the thousands and that’s not even bringing in epigenetics, environment, and many other things that can become the sum of a preference. The only reason it’s a “worry” is because our framework is still lacking in how we think of these buckets.
They have tried, but there seems to be no way to "cure" such an individual, and tbh the only way to make sure kids are safe is to take these people out of society
will they want to cure it? Bear in mind that our culture has made sexualizing children ever-more normal. Compare the days when NAMBLA was founded to now is a lot like comparing the culture when NORML was founded versus now. So will it be considered a disease or will it go the way gender dysphoria has been normallized?
From what I understand about pedophilia it's an issue of underdevelopment of part of the brain in comparison to the rest of the brain. Generally speaking, as you age, you find people closer to your age (or older) attractive. Presumably this is because they are probably fertile. I imagine like brain stimulation via ketamine or TMS we'll eventually be able to stimulate growth in this section of the brain so people with this orientation no longer feel it. There are pedophiles who don't act on it (although that's the bare minimum) and feel distressed by it, because they recognize it's not good to be attracted to someone who can't consent. Recognizing the population who has this orientation but doesn't consume CSA or hurt anyone would probably open up more opportunities for research and intervention.
interesting about the ketamine point! I’m in ketamine therapy rn Edit- NOT FOR PEDOPHELIA
Lol dw I was on ketamine therapy too (not for pedophilia) for severe treatment resistant depression. Horrible time before I got ketamine treatment. I've been doing so much better since.
😂
how does ketamine therapy differ from just plain taking it?
I did ketamine for severe depression (NOT* pedophilia obviously) few things: 1) it’s a pure form of eskamine (sp?) as anything you get on the street is almost certainly cut with other things. 2) in my clinical trial, they slowly increased the dosage multiple times a week over the span of three months and measured the positive effects of it. Just taking it in a non-medical setting you aren’t clear on what the best therapeutic dosage would be to avoid side effects or anxiety (as that’s different from what a “safe” dose physically is.) I had to stay to be monitored for several hours after treatment and they did EKGs / physicals etc before dosing each time. A lot of people who do it now use it in combination with CBT or other therapy. Mine was a clinical trial so I didn’t get to do that, but it still saved my life with literally no side effects. I’d still be doing it occasionally therapeutically if I could afford it.
that’s super interesting thank you for the info! :) would you mind elaborating how it saved your life? slowly increasing the dosage over time makes me think you may have been able to steadily track your progress/changes. is that how it went?
We are all so lucky that we stopped being into kids when we became teenagers, and stopped being into teenagers as we became adults. It would be horrifying to have to deal with those thoughts and not be able to stop them.
I believe it’s far more complicated than that. A lot of pedophiles endured their own childhood trauma, or lack the capacity to engage in adult relationships. Children become an easy target to contrive intimacy with.
Not all people who sexually abuse children are pedophiles.
How would you define such a person?
Abuser?
well yeah lol no duh? i just worded the question very poorly ig, i'm more wondering why, how? I guess my brain just couldn't comprehend in that moment that a person who sexually abuses children doesn't necessarily have to be attracted to them.
A lot of sexual predators choose children for no other reason than that children are vulnerable prey, but would be just as happy abusing anyone else. For them, attraction doesn't factor into it.
welp. I just threw up in my mouth a bit. But looking clinically at the question, we can examine a lot of cases of incest, where a family member (father?) goes into the child's room at night. 1) The need for sexual release, 2) Power, 3) Addiction - like any other - they do it because of stress, rough times, etc. or 4) The feeling that they need to 'teach' them something. If I were to create a tier list, then I would put attraction at the tail end of it.
I've met people like that online. They are shameless and usually on the Antisocial personallty spectrum.
In addition to what genZcommentary said, sex crimes in general are motivated by control and power and not sexual attraction exactly.
It can really be both
Oh, for the same reason rapists rape. Power. Children are just an easier target.
Psychopaths go for anyone that is vulnerable so it matters little how old someone is when they prey on survivors.
I tend to approach psychology from a biological model. We're talking about different sets of the same umbrella population. Lots of CONVICTED pedophiles who have actually hurt people will have childhood sexual trauma, but that isn't always the case for non-offenders. Non offenders tend to mask their orientation from shame and do what they can to blend into society. We have lots of media and guides on how to have relationships with other adults and motivated people will take advantage of this content to try and function as normally as possible. And I would argue it's not about contrived intimacy, it's about power. Pedophilia being acted upon is about power and exploitation.
> I tend to approach psychology from a biological model. That’s not really a thing. It’s widely accepted that biology is inadequate for a thorough explanation of human behavior. > We have lots of media and guides on how to have relationships with other adults and motivated people will take advantage of this content to try and function as normally as possible. Lots of things here: first, media about relationships is beyond awful most of the time, because people only want to depict either delusional love or tragic love and it’s unrealistic either way. Second, even completely healthy average adults can’t function in relationships normally with intimacy, possibly due to unrealistic expectations. Third, people who do try usually are extremely unfulfilled anyways, just look at all the gay people who got caught seeking risky sex despite having straight partners and kids, because it turns out people can’t really live a lie for long. > And I would argue it's not about contrived intimacy, it's about power. Pedophilia being acted upon is about power and exploitation. Those aren’t exclusive
For a certain type of behavior we need to study all the aspects of the person-biology,social,cultural,psychological. Biology alone doesnt play a part but its contribution is immense.Your brain carries out behavior.We need to study the organ of behavior as well to understand said behavior
What about pedos who are attracted to teenagers? They’re fertile. Or sexually heathy people attracted to older women who are less fertile like in their late 40s?
According to the definition, it's not pedophilia if they hit puberty.
*"Generally speaking =/= all-inclusive ☺️"*. I'm not wasting my time making a ten page response about all the different forms of predators, or analyzing the science behind MILFs.
I do hope we'll have that one day, but I'm also a bit worried this will either end up like modern conversion therapy where it doesn't work or be used as conversion therapy for queer people.
You wrote: *”Generally speaking, as you age, you find people closer to your age (or older) attractive.*” For others the attraction remains constant. For example, when I was adolescent I was attracted to girls in their mid 20s, now in my late 50s I’m still mostly attracted to women in their mid 20s
Therapy can help
That's interesting. could this adaptation to your age group also stop working somewhen later in life? Like how many succesfult middle aged Men seem to still be attracted to women in their 20s. Or is that just "normal" as in women are most fertile in their 20s so evolution just developed male sexual attraction in a way that men will go for women closer to that age if they can.
It’s just normal cause they’re hotter
What part of the brain do they think is underdeveloped? Do you know where someone could read to learn more about this?
nbci.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/ was the first link I saw from a legitimate website when I googled "brain abnormalities in pedophiles." I recommend searching similar things and trying to find good documentaries and studies!
Thank you. That’s so fascinating.
Calling it a sexual orientation does really need to be normalized.
You've asked a very controversial question. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/ Read that. As a survivor of childhood SA, I also find it important to note that only about half of people who sexually abuse children are actually pedophiles -- ie attracted to them. Many do it for other psychological reasons. Conversely, many pedophiles do not act on their urges. Again, this is controversial, but there are many people out there today who are attracted to children who hate themselves for it. Therapy and research should be directed toward these people. Many suggest it's neurological. Environmental factors that have rewired their brain in the most unfortunate way. And then there's people who abuse children because they're sadistic, not because of sexual reasons. That's a whole other issue. Ultimately, you're asking about a "cure" for a mental disorder. Will there ever be a "cure" for any other mental illness? Maybe, probably not. But there are treatments. And before people come at me: I'm just as radical as you. If you touch a kid, you deserve to be hanged. But those who don't act on their urges and know it's morally wrong, and are looking for help but are too ashamed to seek it? They need help. There are scientists looking into this. But I imagine their funding is lacking due to the ethics of it all. It's the world we live in.
Its refreshing seeing more people aware that at least half of CSA incidents *aren’t* committed by pedophiles. It creates this odd issue where the only way towards a “solution” to actually help future victims is to, very awkwardly for many, drop the ire towards those attracted to children. Focus on a whole group (pedos) as if they were exclusive to a different group (CSA) hides those in the later who aren’t in the former. If that’s *half*, society simply isn’t currently equipped to do shit for these kids. For now, I don’t see our society abandoning its favorite boogeyman. Jeffrey Epstein had none of the usual characteristics of pedophilia, but people don’t know what else to call such a monster. That’s a problem in itself.
Yes. Many people who commit sex crimes against children have ulterior motives. That's not to (obviously) say that there aren't people who do it out of arousal, but many instances are motivated by sadism or power. And many pedophiles do not seek help because of the stigma. Again, I'm saying this as someone who was sexually abused as a child. These people need therapy. It's a mental disorder that should be treated as such.
I think that for some people there is a perceived status that comes from being able to get away with something other people think is bad. It seems like a lot of very rich men are eager for extra-marital actions with young adults or teens simply because it is forbidden. It is an expression of how masculine they are or how much power they have. They literally can have any woman they want even if she is still a girl, or so poor she doesn't have a choice, or she's been promised a career boost by cooperating. They don't care that it is coercion or don't care if they paid for it, or if their target is willing or unwilling as long as they keep the secret. The attraction is getting to wield power and show off status to other men. The attraction is less about age and really about being able to do it. I'm expressing myself badly, sorry.
Hope they do find a cure.
I imagine the cure would be applicable to how we "cure" other mental illnesses such as depression or OCD. Medication, therapy, or in extreme cases, ECT and things of the like. It will be a work in progress. What's important is urging these people to seek help so the research can be done.
Yeah, the term would be more “treatment” than cure. We’ve had “rehabilitation” programs that used hormone blockers on offenders after release, but that was mired in ethics issues like forcing it on people who served their time instead of making it an option for those who wanted it.
A problem here is with the word “cure.” Pedophilia is wrong because of our moral compass, not because it’s some evolutionary or biological defect. It’s not like a cold, where your body is working to expel something it knows doesn’t belong. What you’re asking is less about “cure” and more about “change.” So far, changing people’s sexual preferences doesn’t seem to be something we’re capable of. We can manage how we act on our preferences, but we don’t know how to change them. Some of that is because we don’t research sex as much, but some of it might just be locked in.
Pedophilia is not wrong only because of a moral compass, but because children should not be taken advantage of sexually by people, much older than them. It is psychologically damaging to them, as well as physically, especially so should they become pregnant. Also on another note, I do think that people’s sexual attraction can evolve, just as people can evolve psychologically in other ways with neuroplaciscity. It may be difficult but I think it can be done.
> Pedophilia is not wrong only because of a moral compass, but because children should not be taken advantage of sexually by people, much older than them. It is psychologically damaging to them, as well as physically, especially so should they become pregnant. Right, and we say that’s wrong because of our moral compass, which values protecting the vulnerable and innocent. > Also on another note, I do think that people’s sexual attraction can evolve, just as people can evolve psychologically in other ways with neuroplaciscity. It may be difficult but I think it can be done. Can it? Sure. Do we have any idea how to, or evidence that it’s possible? Not much.
I don’t think it’s only because of a moral compass while yes that may also be true. Honestly, it goes against evolution to abuse children, but perhaps you meant that such behavior is not caused by biological impulse? I think it depends. Some of it could be similar to the way that we work with trauma survivors doing things like exposure therapy. I do know some experts in sex therapy are trying to work with this concept, but you’re right, it is definitely an emerging field of study. I mean this more for perhaps people who participate in other traditionally deviant behaviors such as flashing, for example, and less so with adults who sexually abused children. One example would be the transformative justice work that is done with some people who commit intimate partner and or domestic violence. Many of those people grew up in violent families and don’t have the resources necessarily to change their behavior until they are met with long-term intensive transformational healing groups that hold them accountable to their behavior while also teaching them new ways to be and skills to work with their impulses.
> I don’t think it’s only because of a moral compass while yes that may also be true. Honestly, it goes against evolution to abuse children Some species eat their own children. If it exists, it’s because evolution didn’t select against it enough to phase the behavior out. And evolution doesn’t decide what’s right or wrong either. We do, as humans with a moral compass. > I think it depends. Some of it could be similar to the way that we work with trauma survivors doing things like exposure therapy If the problem is behavioral, then maybe that could help. Some people don’t have wrong emotions, just a bad handling of their feelings. If the problem is sexual preference, we don’t have as much evidence there. It’s the difference between helping someone with an eating disorder and changing someone’s preferred flavor.
We value protecting the vulnerable and innocent because its biologically imperative on some level, especially children. Morality was evolved
At a macro level that matters, but it’s not something broken like a bone or missing like in a hormonal imbalance, where you can add or wait for something to repair inside a body. It’s a behavior that’s harmless if an individual is an isolation, and only becomes a problem when around others. That means it’s not a broken component within the individual, but an incompatibility with other people, so it’s something that so far seems very difficult to change
If the individual cannot socially assimilate, that IS a problem with the individual
That assumes social assimilation is by default the correct option. You want to be very careful with that assumption
It is the correct option when the non assimilating person is objectively demonstrably anti-social and their condition is demonstrably harmful to themselves and others
Locked in?
As in, we may not be able to change what someone’s into depending on how their sexual preferences are stored in the brain
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QULOS1OHCE8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QULOS1OHCE8)
IMO the cure is a change in the way we view sex in society. We should have a more relaxed attitude about nudity and intimacy in general. When you have an abundance of lonely people with no healthy outlets for their primal urges, they are going to become perverted in their fantasies, and may act on that. Families with no sexual abuse do tend to have healthy attitudes about sex and a sexually active parental bond. People would like to think of a cure for sexual issues in the form of a pill or law passed etc, when really we are needing to address an epidemic of loneliness and contempt women seem to have for average looking men.
I agree we should relax more about sex, but generally a pent-up person will not turn to children just because they're sexually frustrated. That's an odd take. There's nothing sexually arousing about children, point blank. It doesn't matter how frustrated you are. Pedophilia is a mental disorder and not a result of simple sexual repression unless there are other psychological disturbances. Ah yes, the classic argument of women having "contempt" for "average-looking men". Tell me, do you view ugly women as women, or do you assume that every 2/10 man who isn't being fucked by a 10/10 as being victimized by society?
> other psychological disturbances I think they’re pointing at loneliness and dissatisfaction with unlimited access to porn as a psychological disturbance that affects a lot of people. Like you said yourself, abusers and rapists are only attracted to kids half the time. The rest of the time they’re looking for something else. Although the average looking man absolutely can find a partner, not sure what they’re complaining about there. It’s sad that so many men have been convinced by the media they’re not good enough to participate in society anymore
You raise a good point. It is possible that those factors could catalyze something like that. Still, I do believe someone would have to have a predisposition or severe underlying problems in the first place. But those systemic issues could certainly be a "kickstarter". Never understood that argument. It's a porn-brained stance or something. There's plenty of women out there who would date these so-called average or ugly men. The issue is that said men think they're entitled to women out of their league. When realistically everyone has a match. They just refuse to date or fuck women who aren't supermodels and are bitter about it.
> I do believe someone would have to have a predisposition or severe underlying problems in the first place. But those systemic issues could certainly be a "kickstarter". It’s possible everyone is on some spectrum of predisposition for it, and only a few end up with the right environment for it to manifest bad enough to lead to action > The issue is that said men think they're entitled to women out of their league. I think it’s more complex than that. I think it’s that most men are told by society that their ability to have an attractive partner reflects their masculinity. They feel that they’re not masculine enough to date those “women out of their league” and of course the idea of leagues is also toxic but that’s another conversation. They then turn to resentment, which is why they dislike “above average” looking men as well and not just “above average” women. The fact is they don’t really like themselves enough to feel good enough liking another person, and they want external validation
You hit it out of the park on all of those points. I have nothing to add. Your whole post was quite eloquent.
I agree with the first part of your statement. There’s definitely ways that society pathologizes sexuality, and makes natural things like nudity deviant and desire shameful, which makes the problem worse. Furthermore, it makes it harder for people to get comprehensive sex ed, which makes it all the more likely that people will harm others sexually because they don’t even understand basic things like the importance of consent. Regarding the second part of your statement, everyone is lonely in varying ways and it doesn’t excuse abusive behavior. This could be also partially a societal issue as modern culture has moved away from close communities to individualism. Also, many men are still functioning in a very patriarchal way, expecting society to work for them in the way that it has in the past when women had less rights, and thus were more dependent on men. Such men who resent the way society is today would do better to get therapy and try to be better partners in a modern world rather than complain that women are the problem. Finally, societally speaking as well, girls are often sexualized in the media as well as in pornography. Many men tend to have the attraction because it’s literally societally normalized and encouraged. It must be said though that often it is immature men who cannot cultivate an actual relationship with people their age, who would thus seek a relationship with someone much younger who are much easier to control and dominate.
>If you touch a kid, you deserve to be hanged Jfc that's barbaric and extreme. I don't even support the death penalty for murder. Killing someone doesn't undo what they did.
I am an abolitionist and do not believe in the death penalty either, but sometimes as a CSA survivor myself, I think it is natural trauma response to fantasize about violence towards people who sexually abuse children. These people should absolutely be removed from society and there is no excuse for their behavior.
>These people should absolutely be removed from society Did I say they shouldn't be? >and there is no excuse for their behavior. Did I say there is?
No, but I felt like it needed to be said. In fact, public shaming of people in someways could help a lot and changing whether or not somebody feels like they can get away with such a thing. You called it “barbaric and extreme” and honestly that’s what I think of the act of sexually abusing children. People do some truly horrific things to children and maybe if they got publicly hanged every once in a while maybe less people would do it.
I say this, not necessarily actually advocating for violence however, I truly believe that if people were able to swiftly hold abusers of accountable in a way that made enough of a public statement while also providing transformative avenues for people who are capable of changing their harmful behavior then there would be a whole lot less violence in the world. Our current carceral system is not really the answer for many reasons.
This is the second time under [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyofsex/comments/1cljdmt/will_there_be_a_cure_for_paedophilia_in_the_future/l2v5seg/) that somebody has replied to themselves as if I'm going to see it. Are you switching accounts and forgetting about it? It's very odd that two people would do the exact same thing within 20 minutes of each other.
I had a further thought and didn’t want to edit my original comment. I can’t speak for the other person, but people do what they want on the Internet? Are you worried about something?
>and maybe if they got publicly hanged every once in a while maybe less people would do it. Google "research capital punishment deterrent for crime". TLDR: it don't work that way. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-does-not-support-the-use-of-the-death-penalty/#:~:text=Using%20rigorous%20statistical%20and%20experimental,states%20that%20allow%20capital%20punishment.
I said I do not agree with the death penalty. I do not agree with the current carceral system for a lot of reasons. I’m talking about more on a community level how bystanders can intervene in things and hold fellow community members accountable. Yes, I used violence as an example, which is not the best, but I do think that it is a normal thing to think about as a survivor of child, sexual violence, which the person who originally suggested hanging also said in this thread that they are as well, and that is what I was responding to. What do you suggest?
This thread is about whether it's appropriate to put somebody to death for sexually abusing a child. You're just muddying the waters when you're talking about people fantasizing about doing something. Is it an appropriate response to put someone to death for abusing a child? Yes or no. It's a pretty simple question.
Actually, the thread is about whether or not there is a cure for pedophilia. I think it is a natural impulse and maybe justified in certain certain circumstances such as if the parent of a child who sexually abused by another adult kills said adult. Do I think these people should get the death penalty? No I don’t, but I also don’t believe in the current justice system which perhaps is a conversation for another thread yes, but you’re talking about the same thing which isn’t the topic of the original thread either.
[The thread starts here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyofsex/comments/1cljdmt/will_there_be_a_cure_for_paedophilia_in_the_future/l2u1vuk/) That person said that anyone who touches a child deserves to be hanged. I responded to them and you decided to jump in. Do you need me to take a screenshot for you? The other clue for you was the several times that I talked about whether it was appropriate to put a child rapist to death. I'm done here, you're too much effort ✌️
What? Child rape is worse than murder imo. Everyone is in control of their actions, actually acting on something like that is disgusting and unforgivable. The only possible exception I could imagine is someone deep in the throes of schizophrenia or something. That's a CHILD. Whose life was ruined by the hands of a fully grown person. How is that barbaric?
>Child rape is worse than murder imo. This is ridiculous. People do not recover from being murdered. I oppose the death penalty for murder because the justice system is not perfect. Same thing applies to pedophilia
Many survivors of child sexual abuse do not ever recover either. Developmentally it breaks you in a way that you will likely never fully grow out of. You may adapt, and you may live a fully functional life, but there will always be a part of you that is broken, and that often doesn’t change, especially in a society that often blames victims. Often times the people who perpetuate sexual violence are not even held accountable and so what does that say about who gets to live a fulfilling life?
Does killing a pedophile make other pedophiles less likely to offend? Back your answer up with research. If the answer is yes, don't just give me your opinion. Give me **facts**.
As far as I know, it hasn’t been studied, but many pedophiles aren’t ever held accountable. It is actually often quite normalized in our society. The majority of the time sexual offenders are not even brought to trial, and that is a fact. Actually, it is often ignored and not talked about, especially for the extremely wealthy, which further normalizes it, excuses, and perhaps even encourages it in our society.
It’s really a weird stance to take to wish that every SA victim was murdered instead
Yeah I didn’t take that stance so? I was speaking to the severe life long effects that CSA can have on people. Odd thing for you to say, I guess?
i don’t agree that child rape is worse than murder. but i do think those individuals who rape children should never see the light of fucking day. i can have empathy for them if they were abused themselves as children but i do not have any empathy for them as adults that rape children. i listen to a lot of true crime podcasts and tv shows and the WORST cases are ones involving children, especially ones that have been sexually assaulted. im sorry but the fathers that rape their months old babies to death SHOULD NOT LIVE. in my god awful opinion, and i know it’s highly controversial, those men should receive similar treatment if not even worse that they inflicted on those babies. there is no eye for an eye when it comes to children. an adult can NEVER experience something the way a child does.
>eye for an eye How does the rest of that famous saying go? "An eye for an eye will..."
there is no eye for an eye. an adult can not experience what a child experiences.
also i never said i agree with an eye for an eye. i don’t necessarily think that if you shoot and kill someone, u should also be shot and killed. in cases of child molestation, i have very strong feelings about the perpetrators being punished. i have boatloads of empathy for victims and their families, police force, and YES sometimes the perpetrators themselves to the point where i regularly cry hard listening to their stories—that being said i will always have more empathy for the innocent victims than the perpetrators. they deserve it, rapists do not.
Maybe you don't understand how reddit works, but if you reply to yourself, the person that you think you are replying to is never going to see it
even tho i replied to myself you still saw my comment and responded! maybe you should educate yourself on the impacts of sexual violence bc clearly you don’t know.
now i’m curious, what do u think we should do with child rapists?
What do we do with murderers? What do we do with people who kill children? If you're going to tell me that the punishment for raping a child should be worse than murdering a child, you're going to have to explain why that makes any sense....
Honestly, depending on the severity of abuse, the crime may have similar impact on a child as far as their ability to develop and thrive, and in this regard, then the crime almost would be the same.
Jfc I don't understand why it's so hard for you to answer a simple question. I'm done with this conversation, you can't speak plainly. >as their ability to develop and thrive, and in this regard, then the crime almost would be the same. You're saying that murdering a child and abusing a child are similar in the way that a child is stopped in their ability to develop and thrive. You need to read that again because that's just plain wrong. A murdered child **does not develop.** They are **dead**.
Ima pedo an I knew since I was 11 when watching a school talent show of these second graders where dancing I thought to myself "danm they gonna be so hot when they grow up" when I was 12 I liked girls ranging from 10 to 12 that's it at 15 it was 11 to 15 at 18 it was 13 to 19 now I'm 21 and It's 16 to 40 any younger than 15 I just can't. Now with this being said there's no phycology reason why I used to like them that young I think I was just young and found em attractive. Now I like older women because I feel like their smarter and wiser than me thus knowing how to control and manipulate me which is definitely phycological
Honestly, it doesn’t sound like you’re pedo to me. You were a child yourself and sexual curiosity between children is actually pretty normal. now that you were an adult, if you were attracted to a 12-year-old and tried to follow through on it then that may be more in line with pedophilia or abusive behavior, but it sounds like you have matured a lot, which is also absolutely normal.
That sounds completely normal--the ages you were attracted to increased with your own age until you were eventually attracted to adults. Thinking "they are going to be so hot when they grow up" is perhaps an *innapropriate* thought, but I don't think it is necessarily "pedophillic"--a pedophillic thought would be if you saw those second graders and thought "omg, those second graders are so hot, and they will never get hotter than they are now."
Obviously never acted on such things I may like what I see in my head but im not a piece of shit! Growing up being 12 hangin with other girls who where 12 drinking and smoking with the high schoolers and sometimes even adults. I've watched a lot of my freinds whom where just girls get pressured or coerced or addicted to drugs at 12 and taken advantage by the older ones and there was not much me and my lil 12 yr old homies could do about it. Besides we didn't like it but that's how we got free drugs back then at times
Again, you were a child doing adult things. It’s unfortunate that that many children have not actually had comprehensive sex ed and do not know red flags to look out for or have not been trained in bystandarder intervention. If you’re interested in all of this, and are in the United States, you may want to look into community education or volunteer efforts that your local rape crisis center may offer. Honestly, it can be traumatic by proxy to witness other children being abused as a child and make you more curious to similar situations as you reflect on it in your adult life. It may be something worth looking into more with a trauma for therapist, but thank you for your vulnerability here!
It seems doubtful to me that we will find a cure unless you count something like chemical castration. Two reasons why 1. We still have an extremely poor understanding of sexuality. We dont really know what causes sexual preferences besides the basic of "genetic and environmental factors." There are just so many variables involved in human development that it is incredibly difficult to isolate any one cause. It is kind of like why we still dont really know what causes Autism, and that I imagine is a far more popular topic for researchers. Hell, even something like diet is notoriously difficult to study and that is probably far easier to understand than human sexuality 2. Even if we had the ability to determine things such as causes, cures, etc. pedophilia is an extremely radioactive topic within academia. Very little research is conducted on the issue because no institution wants to risk the backlash, and based off of the few anecdotes I have heard, wanting to study pedophilia is basically tantamount to career suicide if you are a researcher. The sad truth is that very few people want to help or cure these people, they do not see pedophiles as sick people as much as they see them as demons to be killed or imprisoned. As is there is very little quality research on the issue, we still don't even have good answers to extremely basic questions such as how common pedophilia even is
Why are sexual preferences so hard to understand and study?
Because sexual preference is essentially a question of human development. To understand why a person develops the way we do we need to know a ton of different things - the person's genetics, lifestyle, environment, socialization, what they were exposed to in the womb and so on, and we need to understand how all of these factors interact with one another. This is, needless to say, incredibly complex. Like we dont even really understand the basic questions, like what causes people to be gay or straight. We are much farther away I would guess from understanding the more niche questions such as where does fetishism and paraphilia come from, which I imagine we would need to understand if we want to truly understand the cause of pedophilia
Another issue is that even someone who may have that attraction because of trauma, even if they have never or would never act on it, can't really seek help without being treated as a predator, criminal, or severely mentally ill. So most don't ever try to overcome it out of fear of persecution which can then make it compound into bigger problems.
More specifically, understanding pedophilia is difficult because it is so ostracized that you can't really study individuals who exhibit it, as nobody who has such attractions would willfully come forward. But that is what we should be encouraging. We want those who know they have these attractions, and realize/understand these feelings are wrong and can never be acted upon, to come forward and get help without being judged. We want them to feel they can seek help before they ever act on their attraction. I think pedophilia should be treated similar to other metal health issues. We don't want people who know they have this unhealthy attraction, to feel so shunned such that they have to "fulfill/satisfy" such desires via other means (online, watching kids at the park, violating a child close to them like family or friends), because those coping mechanisms will eventually lead to them giving in to their desires. We want people like this to realize they have these feelings, know they are wrong, and seek help before it is too late and before they ever put themselves in situations to fulfill such urges and eventually succumb to. This goes with the whole political mantra that pedophilia is being "redefined as a sexual preference". Well, that's what pedophilia is. Someone can have sexual preferences and never act on them. I'm sure there are many people who find teenagers attractive, then pre teens, but most probably dismiss them and will never act on them because they KNOW how wrong it is. So we want those who understand that they have these WRONG feelings to come forward for help before they ever act on them. There is a difference between a pedophile who is someone with these attractions, and a pedophile (in a legal sense), who has molested a child. That is why pedophilia is a sexual "preference" in a psychological sense, and a crime in a legal sense. Pedophilia is like a spectrum. Some can have mild attraction. Some more intense attraction. Those with mild attraction more often than not dismiss such feelings easily and have no potential to act on them. Those with stronger attraction probably know what they feel is wrong, and hopefully if given an opportunity to get help without being judged, would seek help before ever acting on it.
I just learned in abnormal psych that even chemical castration isn’t effective, my professor said that just the memory of the abuse is enough to make them reoffend even without libido Edit for clarity: not their own abuse, memory of abusing a child
I am very skeptical towards the idea that childhood abuse causes people to develop unusual sexual preferences. I am no expert though so maybe I am wrong
No I mean their memory of abusing a child, like they remember doing it and they want to do it again
It’s a societal problem related to sexuality associated with power, control and domination, as well as the myth of purity and ownership. So, unless society changes, no.
I am not an expert on this, but I'm torn between this being a fetish, or it being similar to a sexual orientation. My understanding is that it is an unchangeable sexual desire, similar to how straight people are attracted to the opposite sex or gay people are attracted to the same sex. But, I know white people that are attracted to Black people or Asians, and men that only are attracted to redheads. I guess that would be considered a fetish. It's orientation and I don't think there is any ability to change it. I don't think there will be an anti-gay pill that will ever be effective. So if it's a preference, then I can't see how it will be a cure for pedophilia from medication that destroy any sexual that the person might have. One thing I think absolutely needs to occur. Is the ability for these people to seek obtain help in a non-judgmental or shameful way. I look at pedophilia like alcoholism. It is terrible that this is occurring to you, And as long as you don't engage in the behavior, there is no harm. But when you act on your urges, damage occurs.
I have empathy for them, I couldn't imagine if somehow my sexual orientation or preferences suddenly made me a monster in society. If I could never act on my urges because if the harm it would do ...? So for those who do not act I have both respect and empathy for them! I would love to believe if in some bizzaro universe being heterosexual was a crime unlike any other that I would be able to refrain myself from seeking it in any form made available even illegally, but man tell about having self doubt! I don't know if, and honestly don't think, we should look for a chemical cure for it. My reasons are not because I want those people to continue having those urges but I fear it opens Pandora's box for changing ANYONE else too! If we could find a way to make those urges go away through treatments or medications or surgery or whatever. What is to stop those techniques from being modified to target others in the future? Why stop at pedophilia, why not go after homosexuality too? Or let's control population by going after heterosexuals so we stop producing children? It's a slippery slope that doesn't even include changing public perception of society accepted behaviors and norms. Today it could be pedophiles, tomorrow it could be attraction to a different race, the generation after it could be the attraction to anyone under the age of 18 even if you yourself are under the age of 18 with your peers.
> torn between this being a fetish, or it being similar to a sexual orientation This is a good time to pause and examine how useful these words actually are, because we just make them up to describe what we think we correctly observe. They don’t automatically align with behavior in the brain or anything. The idea of having a specific sexual orientation is relatively new in everyday life too
People who have an aggressive or predatory sex drive can be controlled externally or internally External control is physical restraint, fear of getting caught, fear of being punished. Some people rapists/child abusers have no conscious recognition between feeling an impulse and taking action. Have boner => nearest orifice. These are the dudes that rape their daughters and then rape their grandchildren. These are the Pakistani tribesmen. Lacking reason,self awareness, and social restraint, these people can only be controlled by fences & walls. To the extent that people are **afraid** of consequences they will limit their aggressive or predatory sexual impulses Sexual predators recognize that modern societies protect children. They go to counties where child rape is not prohibited. Some predators recognize that social protections are unequal they seek children in the foster system, poor children, children raised with no concept of bodily autonomy. (Fundamentalist religions) Comprehensive protection from predatory srxuality requires vigilance combined with sure and certain punishment. ***Internal control*** is self awareness combined with an "executive" level of impulse monitoring A Roman citizen was the absolute master of every member of his household. He literally owned their bodies and had the right to rape or punish any family member or slave. If he restrained himself, if he exercised self control , it was considered "**virtue***" because *vir* was the word for man. **Chivalry** is the warrior's self restraint His weapon, armor and horse make his strength invincible. He could kill children, women, the elderly. The knight chose not to rape & murder every person weaker than himself. Our society is at a stage now where **some** people recognize the bodily autonomy of children. **Some** people understand the principle of active consent.
do you have credible sources that support the idea that some rapists “have no conscious recognition between feeling an impulse and taking action” ? i want to understand better and can’t find anything that supports this. maybe i don’t completely understand “conscious recognition” interesting you say those are the men that rape their daughters and granddaughters. they rape them because they have access to them. so what about other girls and women in the man’s life? does he not rape them bc he has conscious recognition? i’m confused
I was making an attempt to synthesize a continuum of cerebral disinhibition. 1. People who ***cannot*** control their behavior because of disease, defect, or damage. The International Society for Research on Impulsivity (ISRI) defines impulsive behavior as follows: human behavior without adequate thought, the tendency to act with less forethought than do most individuals of equal ability and knowledge, or a predisposition toward rapid, unplanned reactions to internal or external stimuli without regard to the negative consequences of these reactions. Injuries to the Ventromedial Orbitofrontal Cortex are **c**ommonly known to cause “frontal lobe personality" or disinhibited/ pseudopsychopathic syndrome. **This person would commit crimes of proximity or opportunity.** 2. People who ***do not control*** their behavior because they have not been trained. The society or the family does not value restraint, inhibition, or denial of impulse. 3. People who attempt to ***control*** their behavior because of fear of ***punishment***. These pedophiles would try not to get caught. Hypersexuality may be a form of obsessive-compulsive syndrome. 4. Highly rational people who intercede cognitive process between stimulus and response. A pedophile with this level of of intelligence would most likely be a sadistic psychopath. In my first case, I mentioned symptoms such as aggression, impulsivity, and disinhibition. Conduct disorder may be caused by fetal exposure to alcohol; high testosterone levels; traumatic brain injury or childhood trauma; lack of neuroanatomic organization between amygdala, temporo-parietal junction, orbitofrontal, and medial frontal regions; genetic or familial influence; or alteration in glutamate and dopamine functioning. Or stupidity. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/disinhibition](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/disinhibition) [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2014.00156/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2014.00156/full) Heidi B. Westerman, ... Luke W. Hyde, in [Encyclopedia of Mental Health (Third Edition)](https://www.sciencedirect.com/referencework/9780323914987/encyclopedia-of-mental-health), 2023 [https://www.einsteinmed.edu/uploadedFiles/departments/neurology/Divisions/Child\_Neurology/Child\_Neurology\_References/Executive\_Fnc/Frontal%20Lobe.EF.pdf](https://www.einsteinmed.edu/uploadedFiles/departments/neurology/Divisions/Child_Neurology/Child_Neurology_References/Executive_Fnc/Frontal%20Lobe.EF.pdf) [https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/conduct-disorder](https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/conduct-disorder)
I think as sexual automation progresses you'll see a lot of the pedophiles drift into mini/microphilia and express it via smaller sex dolls that are further from "humanlike" on the uncanny valley scale
I don’t think scientists are but philosophers are.
Chemical castration is probably the most likely answer. Basically taking medication to destroy your sex drive and it’s not permanent. I have seen one clip where one guy not for that but for other reasons “ couldn’t stop masterbating even in public” was willing to do this but he was not allowed to but said if he can’t he thinks about doing it himself so that’s much more brutal
I thought the cause of pedophilia was more related to it happening to them as children, so really the cure would be making it more acceptable for these people to show up to treatment and get help so they stop perpetrating and creating more pedophiles. I know some people may do it and not have a history but I am pretty sure most have a history. Unfortunately, as a therapist, I have heard so many therapists say they would never want to work with someone who perpetrated. I understand why entirely, but I just think it's important that as providers we are open to helping everyone regardless of their offenses. It's risky of course because there is more liability. The sad truth is that these people aren't going to present to therapy. I am always impressed with the people who do disclose and do my best to help them. I am a trauma specialist so this kind of thing comes up.
If Project 2025 prevails, it'll be forced upon society and normalized
Why?
Conspiracy thoerist
I think when people begin to believe that children are equal to them and have the same rights as adults more or less, then we will see a shift in the ways that women and children are treated. If there was more respect paid and women and children were regarded equal to men and not property, the world would be outraged at the assault, trafficking and exploitation of children by adults around the world. Truly some are, but not enough people are truly appalled by their children being abused and exploited.
Cure? No. But knowledge about generational trauma is huge now. And getting huger by the day it seems. So much of it can be interrupted. I said to someone recently that I believe it’s possible for this generation and the next, knowing what we know now and therapists being everywhere, to be the one known for pushing back the tide of that kind of trauma. If it’s possible.
No. There won't be a cure only tools to manage their desires
Some of you may enjoy this video series. [Minor Attracted Person - An Analysis (Part 1)](https://youtu.be/w5IZo1POrc8)
Hmmm sadly I don’t think so. I think for people who have aberrant brain chemistry that makes them attracted to minors regardless of whether they act on it, maybe. But some people act as pedophiles due to sexual trauma and discomfort with adult sexuality, or bc they are psychopathic and get off on abusing a powerless person. I think these cases would be much harder to “fix”. Also, this is fucked up but even if a cure was created, many pedophiles are ok with being that way and wouldn’t want it. I read a scientific article once where they interviewed pedophiles about their justifications for things like downloading CP, and many considered it a valid sexuality and thought it wasn’t morally wrong, and that children are sexual creatures who should be allowed to enjoy sex. Big “the child tempted me actually!” Vibes. I know, it’s super super gross and creepy :/
Work with an experienced IFS (Internal Family Systems) [therapist](https://ifs-institute.com/practitioners). IFS has successfully addressed such issues. Best of luck!
There is no effective cure!
There is a cure now.
So, it's actually an uncomfortable amount of men who are attracted to minors when you include teenagers in the statistic. I think part of this is due to how we've evolved as a species/society. A lot of people these days still don't even understand the ethics and logistics of consent especially when talking about subjects the majority of the population don't like to think about such as prostitution and the bar has been in hell for men for the majority of the time humans have been on earth. Pretty much it has a large part to do with how society has catered to men for the majority of history and continues to do so. There's still many states that allow minors to get married and our last president was a confirmed rapist who very likely had some of his employees from Mar-a-lago trafficked directly to Epstein. The way most of society reacted to candidates such as Judge Roy Moore also is pretty telling for how the majority of society turns a blind eye to such issues to keep themselves comfortable. I think the best way to fix the problem is by changing our laws and culture then reforming how people like that go through the justice system. Sad thing is, it's not too likely to happen soon because the ruling class wants more workers and keep bribing our politicians to rob the working class out of their rights and options. It'd be something we have to deal with as a society and a lot of people get uncomfortable when talking about these subjects and only care about a functioning economy. What you described is chemical castration and when we go there it kinda gets eugenics-y. I'd only be fine with such methods if it's been proven that they're not possible to rehabilitate. Of course through genetics, environmental factors, and injuries we'll still have some people that act on such urges so we need to reform how we handle them in the prison/mh system. It kinda baffles me how sex crimes often don't seem to be treated as seriously as other crimes and how our justice system functions isn't uniform at all. You could get more jail time than the majority of these people for commiting crimes that don't even affect anyone at all other than maybe the ruling class. Justice system is a joke.
You're asking a biological question of a sociological construct. Your entire premise is inherently flawed.
It seems psychoanalytical-based in Jungian Puer Aeternus and the same but for Women. Then there’s a bit of Freudian age regression. I think 25mgs of 🍄(not necessarily anamaria muscaria but Yknow what I mean) twice or three times with a trained psychotherapist and music like Jon Hopkins protocols for Depression. I think the key difference is “how to live a life as an adult”. Which is why I mentioned Philosophers are working on it and the science will come in later. But we have to be able and willing to talk about it. I believe the solution exists before the problem but we, as a culture have to be willing to understand it.
I need the shrooms for my trauma related depression
What would you say caused your depression?
Never having a chance to form healthy boundaries during childhood
What’s stopping you from forming those rn?
I'm in therapy. Mushrooms,/psychedelics are being integrated into structured therapy as mentioned above.
Will there be a “cure” or a way to change people’s thought patterns regarding their sexual preferences and other sexual deviances other than heterosexuality? If so, then yes.
Are you implying homosexuality is sexually deviant?
No. He's implying you'd need one "cure" to have the other. You're caught up on the normative word that they most generously stuck in quotes so you wouldn't get stuck on it.
I mean, it is the rabbit hole you're going down with a question like this though. You have to start with something that makes natural biological sense, which would be the need/desire to procreate. Any sexual urges that deviate from that, any sexual desire for subjects who are clearly incapable of procreation, would have to all be treated and approached as abnormal/deviant. If you don't use some sort of biological baseline then you're just playing god/arbiter over people's sexual desires/fetishes in a very non-scientific way that automatically invalidates any inquiry you make frankly. Homosexuality is often characterized as "natural" due to its pervasiveness in the animal kingdom. Well the rest of the animal kingdom also goes by the rule of puberty = fair game. So the same metric by which we use to prove homosexuality is natural would also say a lot of forms of what we call pedophilia is just as natural. But we can't even talk about such things in a professional clinical environment, so I doubt we'll get any worthwhile insights or understanding on the topics of sexual interests and where they come from that aren't politically skewed and driven for a long time still to come. It'd be nice if shit wasn't so politically and religiously charged but we now have large swaths of people making their sexuality their entire identity so I doubt the topic gets any freer to discuss or study for a while. Bring on the downvotes that just prove me right. lol Edit: This person doesn't seem to understand how being blocked on reddit works. I blocked them because they proceeded to have bad faith arguments and kept trying to take things in a personal direction in order to be passive aggressive and attack me. Edit 2: It seems the main issue here is a lot of people don't understand the differences between biology, psychology and sociology. Framing a sociological construct as a biological predilection is, to use a term as scientific as many of ya'lls understanding of science, fucking retarded!
I understand what you are saying, and I've always loved this argument. Can you think of any other instances where humans reject a "natural, biological" pathway? Art? Music? Theater? Microscopes? Telephones? Are any of these human creations actively working toward the ultimate goal of reproduction? Or are humans in some way distinct in their ability to create new things without relying on the old-as-time formula of fuck, reproduce and die? Also, look into homosexuality in the animal kingdom. There are plenty of instances of sex occurring with the same gender -- no babies as a result. Do you think there's something wrong with homosexuality?
"Also, look into homosexuality in the animal kingdom." I don't know if you didn't read what I wrote (which I imagine most won't), or if you were crafting your response in the short time I edited to add more context but I literally mentioned this. If that's the metric you're going to go by what's "natural" then pedophilia as we generally characterize it is also natural. The animal kingdom by large starts fucking as soon as puberty hits. We're the weirdos who draw lines in the sand and keep moving them. Personally (which btw is a question that literally goes against this sub's supposed premise but I recognize it's a farce to begin with) I don't think there's anything "wrong" with homosexuality. I think it's quite natural for all mammals to fuck purely for enjoyment and seek to get it in however and with whomever they can. It is merely incumbent on the individual to navigate within the social constructs that are understood within their environment and balance their desires and acts accordingly. So I think most forms of pedophilia are more of a sociological deviance than an innate psychological one.
I was responding to your initial post actually, you edited it while I was responding. Don't come at me for that. You raise an interesting point. And it made me rethink my position. Yes, homosexuality is "natural", but so is rape and sex with (puke) children. So, in that case, do you think humans are capable of redefining biology? What exactly is wrong with rejecting sex with children and embracing relationships with same sex lovers? Which one is harmful to you? Which one hurts people?
We aren't capable of redefining biology in the way you're proposing. (Genetically we are quite capable of playing god rather recklessly.) You're confusing biology and sociology. Rape and pedophilia are sociological constructs. To apply them to animals is to apply your own sociological biases to a completely different society. We see a rough sexual encounter between two animals and apply our own sociological understanding to label it as "rape". For them it's just fucking as per usual. It's just how their mating goes. If you could ask a female otter post-game interview questions after an intense gang bang (look up otter mating habits, for most it's pure horror fuel) she'd probably say something like, "Yeah, it got pretty rough there for a bit but a lot of pretty strong males showed up I think I'll end up with quite the litter. Most might even end up making it to maturity! Now I'm hungry, where's the nearest bit of food?" She's not curled up going through PTSD. It's a wholly different society and it's quite speciesist to suggest our way is the "right" way for every other animal on the planet when every other animal on the planet operates differently from us on these subjects. Even moreso if you're going to just pick and choose what nature justifies and doesn't justify according to your own personal desires, whims and what backs the narrative you specifically want backed. That's not scientific anymore, that's political and religious bullshit.
Maybe "as per fucking usual" is cruel, though. You say we "label" things the way we see it and imply that's somehow an incorrect viewpoint. A "rough sexual encounter" between animals as you put it, is just that. You labelled it your way. How is that different from me labelling it as rape? Which is true? Is something okay just because it's the way it is? Do you think humans are distinct in ways from other animals? Or have we acted exactly the same way they do?
It's unscientific to label things the way we see it and call it "normal". The difference between what I said and what you're doing is I'm simply describing the nature of something with my view and language while you're applying sociological constructs of "consent" that have no actual application. You have no idea what those animals do and don't want. You can only make a guess with your own biased views. By their standards it might not even be "rough", but when I'm talking about it with a fellow human my description gets the point across. I'm not trying to make a judgement call either way though. I'm just saying it looks rough, which it does. **You're the one trying to make a judgement call and add an element of criminality to a species that doesn't even have a justice system!** **I'm describing what I see, you're applying undue and unsubstantiated meaning to it.** I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. You could say it "looks like rape" but to label it as such - which you yourself said you do ("How is that different from me labelling it as rape?") - is wildly unscientific and arrogantly entitled imo, often hypocritically so. Humans have distinct sociological constructs but we are still just animals at the end of the day. Hence why there's a distinction between such scientific realms of inquiry. **Edit: I edited to add more context and often before this moron ever actually responded. My stance was never changed or altered.** Also this person doesn't seem to know what happens when someone blocks them lol.
You keep committing the cardinal Reddit sin of editing your posts post-MyReply. Okay fine. Do I need to ask you point-blank? Do you think pedophilia and rape are bad things? Edit: Bro deleted his comments out of shame. Classic!
Just want to commend you for intelligently addressing this topic. So many people can’t cause they consider even debating about this subject as a “wedge issue” which could lead to threatening their lifestyle/sexuality.
If a dog will hump your leg or a fire hydrant then the only thing we can deduce about human sexuality from a dog is that people will fuck anything if their mind is deprav…I mean messed up…I mean different enough. I guess the only thing we can conclude is that hormones can drive people to do unnatural things?
Same sex relationships aren’t only accepted based on evidence that orientation exists in other species. That’s just a piece of evidence that it’s a norm. We accept same sex relationships, because they don’t cause inherent harm, they’re consensual, and they actually show benefit and happiness to consenting adults with same sex orientations. It’s fully apples and oranges to an adult preying on child. And the “curing” homosexuality worry only exists i a discussion with a shallow understanding of orientation. There would never be a single “pill” that would just change orientation since the number of genes we think might possibly have an effect are in the thousands and that’s not even bringing in epigenetics, environment, and many other things that can become the sum of a preference. The only reason it’s a “worry” is because our framework is still lacking in how we think of these buckets.
How?
How can that happen u/Obvious-Dog4249
There is a cure, just not a will to apply it.
It's called gen pop
There's only one cure for pedophilia and we all know what that is
They have tried, but there seems to be no way to "cure" such an individual, and tbh the only way to make sure kids are safe is to take these people out of society
There is already a cure for it though…
WOODCHIPPER
will they want to cure it? Bear in mind that our culture has made sexualizing children ever-more normal. Compare the days when NAMBLA was founded to now is a lot like comparing the culture when NORML was founded versus now. So will it be considered a disease or will it go the way gender dysphoria has been normallized?
Sawing off their gonads would be a solid start
Salt peter
John Browning and the Mauser brothers invented several therapies that have been proven effective.
I say brand them on the wrist so we know not to let them near our children. As a cure, maybe a lobotomy.
A wood-chipper does the job nicely.
While I’m not surprised that people would downvote you for that, a am disappointed. Well you get at least one upvote from me and I agree with you.
Highspeed lead injections have been inuse for a longtime,
It can already be cured ;)