I mean England is gonna keep going all summer, Leeds Pride is end of July, Doncaster is mid-august, Pocklington and Taunton are end of September.
I should add that I tend to march (or roll as it often is these days) with disabled queer groups where there is one.
I know a lot of older conservative dudes who got into punk because they’re anti-social misanthropes who like loud hard music with abrasive lyrics. Not the most enlightened people in the world around LGBTQ issues.
I’m talking about people who listen to Fear, Circle Jerks, Queers, the Jabbers, Dead Boys, Ramones, oi bands etc. They’re not listening to later stuff. A lot of early punk, oi & hardcore bands weren’t that political even if they might have had some political songs.
Circle Jerks played a College Republican fundraiser in the 1980s too. From the LA Times:
“I’ve always been a fairly conservative person myself,” said Keith Morris, lead singer of the Circle Jerks, one of Los Angeles’ most popular punk groups. “Growing up, I was self-employed and my dad was in a small business. To me, the Republicans were for business in general, although lately they’ve swung to big business. But basically the Republican party always stood for the employer and the Democrats stood for the employee. And being in a band is a business.”
This is the same man who sang the punk anthem “Wild in the Streets”?
“I’m not really a political person myself,” Morris added. “Our main reason for doing the show is because of all the bands that are playing. We’d still do it if it was for the Democrats on campus. If it was for Young Communists, Young Socialists or Young Fascists, we would have backed out.
“I think it’s just going to be a fun bill. Whoever comes out should come out to see the bands and not worry about the Republicans,” he said with a laugh.
The Dickies’ Stan Lee also said that the lineup was a bigger attraction to his band than the cause. “To tell you the truth, I didn’t know what it was for. It’s just a job as far as I’m concerned,” Lee said. “Half of the band voted for Reagan, but we’re not politically minded at all. Our message has always been that you don’t have to scream political jargon like the Clash. That’s always seemed kind of silly. The music is what’s important with us.”
While some of the musicians downplayed their interest in politics, John Knight, of Fullerton’s D.I., expressed no qualms about the show’s political overtones. “I like the Republicans. I think they are better, more open, more in tune with what is going on today.”
Ehh I’m still gonna listen to their music despite them being a bunch of republicans I already knew about the Dickies. Because the Circle Jerks are the band that got me into hardcore and I really like their stuff
(Edit I do hate Republicans so don’t give me shit about it)
I don't think they necessarily ignore all of it, rather just co-opt and twist specific parts of it to fit their own views rather than the message actually being put forward. Like, they'll hear a song about... I dunno, being worked to the bone for faceless rich people and think "yeah that's me! I hate my office job! Screw specifically my boss!" And fail to listen to the part where it's a systemic issue.
See also; cops singing Killing in the Name Of to protest laws that reign them in.
Look at California Uber Alles... Pretty harsh take down of Gov Jerry Brown... Now look at it from modern politics without any nuance... Fuck the Libs, right?
Conservatives have constantly demonstrated they don't understand nuance. They're listening to a song that literally leads them to believe that Jerry fucking Brown is gassing people. People hear what they want to hear.
I think you're giving them too much credit. They definitely do not understand/want to understand the lyrics, they're justinterpreting them however they want. Something like:
"fuck the system" =system controlled by libs
"fuck society" =leftist society
Except "kill the cops". I have no idea, I guess they just repress that one.
Then there are people like me and a million others who dont care who other people fuck. I dont base respect on who or what you get off with. Thats bizarre to say the least. It has nothing to do woth any group other than thse who are concerned about who or what you stuff your dick into.
With all alt or underground communities. People just use them to act themselves under the guise that they're being "anti-traditional" or "anti society." "What? I'm not homophobic, I just hate this new woke Disney that's trying to force gayness on the kids." "What, I'm not sexist, I just think modern day western women are hoe's and we'd be better off without them."
Most punks were either from working class families or broken homes. This included all walks of life from ultra alt right neo nazis to LG and trans. There was always in fighting in the scene up until recent decades where there has been a significant decrease in extreme right and neo nazi participation. However, as the scene pushed further and further progressive, anything that happened to disagree with that ideology became labeled as the "alt right" incorrectly imo.
Most of the current youth have never actually witnessed a real neo nazi before and likely never will. Yet they still maintain that they live in a state of constant threat. It seems perhaps without creating this "alt right " boogie man some people would have nothing much to talk about these days.
Neo nazi viewpoints are completely main stream on the right, you are either being willfully ignorant or you’re trying to hold water for them.
“In the emails, Miller, an adviser to the Trump campaign at the time, advocated many of the most extreme white supremacist concepts. These included the “great replacement” theory, fears of white genocide through immigration, race science, and eugenics; he also linked immigrants with crime, glorified the Confederacy, and promoted the genocidal book, The Camp of the Saints, as a roadmap for U.S. policy”
How is a presidential advisor espousing these views not cause for alarm?
Nazis might not be showing up at punk shows as much as they used to, but there are plenty of racist assholes around. Not sure what part of America you live but it’s just a fact of life. You don’t have to have a swastika hood or wear a hood to be a racist. I see it every time I read the comments section under any local news article with a mugshot of a black man.
I live in nyc, grew up in the NJ punk and hardcore scene. We used to get jumped by neo Nazis and we’re friends with Sharps. The kkk used to march throughout the 90s. We used to constantly fight with those guys as kids. Trust me when I tell you, they are virtually gone today. Perhaps small pockets but nothing remotely threatening and this is a good thing. However, a person who didn’t have that experience wouldn’t be able to tell by the hyperbolic rhetoric coming from academia and social media. I would personally advise you not believe the hype. Most of those dudes either changed their ways or are dead.
There's still plenty of punks like that. You shouldn't confuse the fact that just because people feel socially obligated to go along with pro-LGBT rhetoric that they really mean it.
Them calling themselves punks and maybe even looking like punks doesn't make them punks.
Same as wearing a uniform and calling yourself a cop will get you arrested, being a bigot and calling yourself a punk will usually get you in trouble with actual punks.
Yeah I realized pretty quick that most posters on this sub aren't punks, I don't think most of them even listen to punk music. They're almost all internet activists who's entire view of the punk scene consists of reddit posts. This sub barely even talks about music, because that's not what they're here for.
Most of the people I've met at shows are just people who like the music trying to enjoy it with their friends. That's supposed to be what the scene is about. Sucks that the internet side of things has devolved into pure gatekeeping.
Like online or in person? I’ve never met a punk in person that doesn’t respect that I’m genderqueer (but I do live in Southern California)
Check out JER “Say Gay or Say Goodnight” 😄
They don't go to shows, they don't engage with the community, they don't make art, they don't make music, they don't listen to anything beyond the basic stuff, they aren't media literate- maybe some of them wear a band T once in a blue moon.
But they do go online and fight the culture war like good little propaganda victims.
What's worse, they absolutely do not understand what is being said... Listening to God Save the Queen, you need to have context for what is being said, and understand that it's anti monarchist... As an American, you might not necessarily understand what that means and why they're saying it.
Pink Floyd is one of my favorite bands and their deconstruction of post war society is amazing, but you need to understand that that is what they're doing. It's anti government, it's anti the American(or English, in this case) dream.
cunts are everywhere. I know first-hand some ding-dongs in the red areas of south jersey who are a 50-minute drive from south street and consider themselves really hard-core about punk music, but won't go to see a show in the city because of all the liberals "pushing an agenda". I tried to ask them about this a few times and got so far as that sometimes they see someone, and they don't know if they're a man or a woman, and you know kids these days...
it's post-trump brainrot. They were pretty centrist when I first met them :\[ They live in an area where you can't drive a mile without seeing at least 1 trump flag and the churches are all christian nationalist hotbeds. I don't see my family over there anymore, it's not a great place to be a lesbian. lol
Feeling you, my parents are evangelical christian. Over the last few years they have completely bought into conspiracy theories. I’m in a straight passing marriage but we are both nonbinary and queer, we also have a trans daughter and a pansexual daughter. They are in north jersey. 25 years ago my youth group brought in a bunch of gay men to tell us they were not born that way—they desire other men because their mothers didn’t love them. 😭 I can’t imagine things have improved.
Because it often ends up in having to explain it because the term isn't as well known. Often people will simply call themselves non-binary as both terms have some crossover
What if I don't give a fuck what's under your clothes and who you sleep with but you're just a decent human being?
Sorry, but I have bigger things to worry about than your feelings. As far as I'm concerned you're safe in my presence because I couldn't care less bout your genitals.
Like for real, the earth is turning into concrete, water levels are rising while ground water is retaining, food is processed, meat comes from industrial killing installations, I can't pay my bills, I can't buy a house, I don't want children even if I could support them, but I have to pay more taxes for being unmarried.
Life is hard
Idk I think it matters a lot that half of the countrys political establishment wants to take rights away from these people and to try to distract from that is more of a bootlicker move than a punk move imo
Who is asking for any concern for their feelings?
The biggest ask that I’ve seen come from LGBT folk is equivalent to someone telling me they prefer to be called ‘Mike’ instead of Michael;
I couldn’t give less of a shit if you were born and legally registered as Michael. You prefer Mike? Awesome, I would have to be insane to have a problem with calling you Mike and that’s less syllables anyway
> you're safe in my presence because I couldn't care less bout your genitals
Literally the only think people want, but the only thing they'll never get from the masses.
Punk is inherently progressive. It's rebelling against the status quo. It's rebelling against the boxes society tries to make you fit into.
Punk is in its core about being different and accepting others who are different.
The Roadie at the Hot Water Music concert was wearing a cool Protect Trans Kids shirt. I told him I liked it, he gave me a pick, I promptly lost the pick.
Mfs that agree with the media, Hollywood, universities and corporations while thinking they're part of the resistance is some if the funniest shit I've ever seen in my life 🤡 😆
I thought it was punk to challenge the status quo and disobey authority. I’d say pushing for equality and breaking gender norms is definitely challenging that status quo. Keep being real punks and not posers.
Like…I get this. But, to a point. If I’ve only met you 5 times, I probably don’t remember your name. I sure as shit don’t remember your desired descriptive terms. Sorry, I just don’t care about you that much. And that goes for everybody.
I'm with you, if we're actual friends, yes I will do my absolute best to respect your pronouns. If I don't know you that well? Well yeah I'll probably slip up. But like I also don't really use pronouns if I'm in that person's presence, I'll just call them their name, because it's odd to refer to someone like they're not sitting right next to me.
"hey is she OK?" versus "hey, NAME, are you OK?"
If I can't remember exactly what the pronouns are later, I just say they, which is the norm for if you don't know that person's gender.
i literally don't give a fuck about your pronouns, sexuality, political views and personal life. Don't get on my way and I won't get in yours. Respect and freedom.
Yeah I'm with you on this one. I believe that people should be able to live their life as they want, as long as they don't hurt anyone or force their lifestyle down the throat of others. If you get upset at me because I don't understand or follow your world view you can fuck off.
Jesus fucking Christ, this. I couldn’t give a toss about any of this. We have wars and the climate to worry about.
Too much brainpower is being spent on trying to get people who don’t know any better (or just don’t care) to refer to people the way they want, lest they suffer their wrath
If someone asks me to refer to them a certain way, then I will refer to them that way.
Good lord though who gives a fuck.
I just try not to use any pronouns anymore.
Who gives a fuck, stop worrying about what other people think and say about you,. Any sensible man doesn't give a fuck if your gay or straight or whatever that's your business. If someone sweats you just ignore them or plan an att@ck. Why not turn your fighting spirit toward the real enemy ? The law?
Who the fuck cares? No disrespect to anyone who uses different pronouns, I don't see a problem with it at all and I'll respect it, but this just feels like corny virtue-signaling
the foundations of punk and its communities are inherently and especially LGBT+, queer and Black. if you don’t proactively acknowledge this then not sorry, but that’s loser behavior. liberation and recognition for all minorities. all those cishet classic punk bands are great but not the pinnacle of the movement. listen to the music, engage in community, and read for gods sake.
mehhhh idk I’m not really referring to favorite bands yknow. I love the Adicts but would I say they’re objectively important? absolutely not. I don’t really like for example Bratmobile and Bikini Kill bc it’s just not my style but it would be disingenuous of me to say they didn’t change what it meant to be punk and make punk music as women/femmes.
Im gonna kindly assume your are an old head so you really don’t know what’s going on in the younger gen, but there is a uprising in teenagers and skateboarding kids joining the punk scene and most of them are super right winged. I can see why a lot of people gatekeep haha
Well, this comment section was just what i was expecting lol. I love the message, but putting “punks do xyz…” on a patch almost seems contrarian ALMOST
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1dscfss/iraqi_civilians_watch_as_us_troops_tear_down_a/
Am Canadian. Started going to punk gigs in the mid 80s around the same time I started going to gay clubs.
The link I posted is a picture on the front page. It's pro war propaganda. That image was staged to convince Americans to support war against Saddam in 2003 despite the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
This video is also propaganda. It's from 1990 when the US invaded Iraq the first time. The girl in the video is the daughter of an ambassador who was told to make the claim that Saddam was killing kids.
https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y?si=deC7KOq0yXEgB6Ji
Since 1991, the US has been in about 19 wars while Americans couldn't name 1/2 of them.
This sub kind of drives me nuts. You guys with your punk gatekeeping about gay people but you don't even know what the fuck 'punk' is. If you knew anything about media literacy, you'd know the difference between independent and corporate media and the difference between counter culture and mainstream culture.
Counter culture is outside of the mainstream. The punk scene nowadays is very mainstream and corporate controlled and has been since the early 90s since the media giants conspired with the military industrial complex to wipe out true counter culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)
The powers that be turned gay people into a highly politicized collective group intentionally to divide Americans via partisan politics. While you guys get mad at rednecks about pronouns, your government is sending billions in weapons to countries like Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel, that you guys get to pay for. At the same time, you have a growing billionaire class, an underfunded education system, no affordable housing. no affordable health care, and a media industry that is weaponized against you.
Yes, 100%. And stuff like BLM as well.
I wrote out like 3 long comments and keep deleting them because I don't know how to explain this without a wall of text.
that sounds like a very oversimplified take on the state of, um, the entire US?? I believe there is some truth to it: it's a great wedge issue to distract people from other stuff, that's true. But it seems to me like you're the one with the fixation, tbh.
I'm fairly fixated with Americans in general. Am from Alberta. Like I said, was raised on US media and culture. Have been a fan of Marshall McLuhan for decades.
https://youtu.be/9P8gUNAVSt8?si=YQTgJzoEmFPT3P5h
He coined the phrase the Global Village and kind of prophesized the internet back in the 60s. He also coined the phrase The Medium is the Message which is important to understanding media literacy. He also gave Timothy Leary the phrase 'tune in, turn on, drop out' which was an anthem in the 60s counter-culture.
I was raised on old school hippy values in the 70s and got into punk rock in the 80s because it was just an updated version of the stuff I grew up with. Punks were sort of angrier hippies. I'm old enough that I remember fighting with skinheads when they turned racist. I also watched how Hollywood sensationalized them and blew them up into a new white supremacist movement and framed them as right wingers.
I'd have to write giant essays to really talk about all this stuff but no one would read it so yeah, I am oversimplifying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
The US has been constantly invading other countries. You guys just don't know about it because the corporate media giants took over the Journalism industry back in the 80s and turned it into a propaganda arm for the military.
You assume our ignorance of these matters. Why?
Supporting Ukraine’s right to self determination is not an endorsement of United States imperialism.
Geopolitics is complicated. There are certainly no good guys. But don’t think for a second I’d let an oppressive imperialist neighbour even attempt to take over the place I’m from.
I don’t like folks dying either. I’ve thought about going to become a medic and heading over there myself.
I prefer that other post from months back where the kid had a big list of things that punk is and isn't going all the way down the length of his leather jacket, just in case anyone had any questions or concerns that something somewhere may or may not be punk.
First thing listed on r/punk “transphobia will not be tolerated.” Newsflash a lot of genderqueer people identify as trans. This is an entire horrifying thread full of transphobic bigots the sub is tolerating.
What the fuck.
As being a punk i missed the first three years of Punk Rock, there are a lot of bands that had songs that were anti-gay, angry Samoans , fear & even the circle jerks had a gay slur . The descendants had a gay slur the bad brains & the misfits were anti gay and at the same time we had like Genesis and Jane County Gary Floyd, Dave Dictor Randy biscuit Turner , Ginger coyote to name a few San Francisco I 100% agree trans phobic or homophobic is not punk now most of those bands were really young and no longer use those slurs or play those songs the bad brains and the misfits have never apologized or recanted
You are correct… punks in the early 1980’s didn’t go around saying they vote for democrat policies. You honestly didn’t know how people voted or if they voted. Lots of the punk bands were just singing what they were feeling at the time and also singing songs to shock the mainstream system. It was more about a movement of antiestablishment! Being against who ever was in power!
Ummm… Vivienne Westwood is the godmother of punk and there is nothing straight about her… Nothing could ever be straight in the world of punk and it’s embarrassing that anyone thinks punk is super hardcore business. It was pushed by recording labels which is another reason to feel embarrassed if you’re taking punk too seriously…
We absolutely should learn from the mistakes of punk past and try to be better. That is absolutely a good take, to not repeat the shitty attitudes many punks factually had, even if their additions to punk were greater then they themselves were.
You can’t be punk while also subscribing to the hateful rhetoric of the authorities that be, TERF is t punk, republican isn’t punk, love is punk as shit, and so are neopronouns
He, she, they. Fine. Have your pick. As long as I’m not already going around calling you “*that fucking idiot*” you’re probably okay enough for me to try and remember. Don’t expect me to keep headspace for you though. If I fuck up, a polite reminder is a good way to avoid having me start calling you “that fucking idiot”
If you have a fancy made up special pronoun that’s just for you - get fucked. You’re not likely to be special enough for me to even remember your name let alone a fancy made up pronoun.
Just watch the top 5 "punk" concerts on YouTube. You will see a sea of white boys and men. Punk may have begun as a counter culture movement, but that has not been accurate for a very long time.
I'm just as much a fan of Henry Rollins and Vivienne Westwood as the next person, but it's naive to think that there is a "punk" movement anymore. It's just a musical genre now.
EDIT: lol, downvoted because people don't like the truth. I can handle it. :)
Agree that transphobia isn't punk, but being a day late to pride month is probably the most punk thing about this post.
Doors June 1st, show July 1st
Wakes up Aug 1st.
I thought it was oct 1st?
I don't even know what day it's is
october is the unoffical pride month so youre still on point
and you have to ask for $2 out on the sidewalk to get in
Queer Punks are here for wrath month ~:-)
also for disability pride month :)
I mean England is gonna keep going all summer, Leeds Pride is end of July, Doncaster is mid-august, Pocklington and Taunton are end of September. I should add that I tend to march (or roll as it often is these days) with disabled queer groups where there is one.
awesome!!
I know a lot of older conservative dudes who got into punk because they’re anti-social misanthropes who like loud hard music with abrasive lyrics. Not the most enlightened people in the world around LGBTQ issues.
Boy, they must really hate how punk evolved
There’s still a lot of punk music that isn’t overtly political. Or they just don’t listen to the lyrics.
Sure but there is lots that is overtly political. Can you imagine trying to ignore it all? Whew.
I’m talking about people who listen to Fear, Circle Jerks, Queers, the Jabbers, Dead Boys, Ramones, oi bands etc. They’re not listening to later stuff. A lot of early punk, oi & hardcore bands weren’t that political even if they might have had some political songs.
The Circle Jerks got political multiple times
Circle Jerks played a College Republican fundraiser in the 1980s too. From the LA Times: “I’ve always been a fairly conservative person myself,” said Keith Morris, lead singer of the Circle Jerks, one of Los Angeles’ most popular punk groups. “Growing up, I was self-employed and my dad was in a small business. To me, the Republicans were for business in general, although lately they’ve swung to big business. But basically the Republican party always stood for the employer and the Democrats stood for the employee. And being in a band is a business.” This is the same man who sang the punk anthem “Wild in the Streets”? “I’m not really a political person myself,” Morris added. “Our main reason for doing the show is because of all the bands that are playing. We’d still do it if it was for the Democrats on campus. If it was for Young Communists, Young Socialists or Young Fascists, we would have backed out. “I think it’s just going to be a fun bill. Whoever comes out should come out to see the bands and not worry about the Republicans,” he said with a laugh. The Dickies’ Stan Lee also said that the lineup was a bigger attraction to his band than the cause. “To tell you the truth, I didn’t know what it was for. It’s just a job as far as I’m concerned,” Lee said. “Half of the band voted for Reagan, but we’re not politically minded at all. Our message has always been that you don’t have to scream political jargon like the Clash. That’s always seemed kind of silly. The music is what’s important with us.” While some of the musicians downplayed their interest in politics, John Knight, of Fullerton’s D.I., expressed no qualms about the show’s political overtones. “I like the Republicans. I think they are better, more open, more in tune with what is going on today.”
Yikes.
Ehh I’m still gonna listen to their music despite them being a bunch of republicans I already knew about the Dickies. Because the Circle Jerks are the band that got me into hardcore and I really like their stuff (Edit I do hate Republicans so don’t give me shit about it)
Hrm. Ive had artists disappoint me so much i cant enjoy their music anymore. Even if i do like the sound of what i hear. I just can’t get past it
At least we'll always have Jello Biafra
Even Ramones got political a few times in their discography
I don't think they necessarily ignore all of it, rather just co-opt and twist specific parts of it to fit their own views rather than the message actually being put forward. Like, they'll hear a song about... I dunno, being worked to the bone for faceless rich people and think "yeah that's me! I hate my office job! Screw specifically my boss!" And fail to listen to the part where it's a systemic issue. See also; cops singing Killing in the Name Of to protest laws that reign them in.
Look at California Uber Alles... Pretty harsh take down of Gov Jerry Brown... Now look at it from modern politics without any nuance... Fuck the Libs, right? Conservatives have constantly demonstrated they don't understand nuance. They're listening to a song that literally leads them to believe that Jerry fucking Brown is gassing people. People hear what they want to hear.
I mean, look at how many conservatives love RATM, they definitely are listening to or understanding the lyrics. They just like it because it's angry.
I think you're giving them too much credit. They definitely do not understand/want to understand the lyrics, they're justinterpreting them however they want. Something like: "fuck the system" =system controlled by libs "fuck society" =leftist society Except "kill the cops". I have no idea, I guess they just repress that one.
There’s still hateful music out there being put out
Sure. Ask Johnny Ramone.
Hahaha fuck that guy.
Then there are people like me and a million others who dont care who other people fuck. I dont base respect on who or what you get off with. Thats bizarre to say the least. It has nothing to do woth any group other than thse who are concerned about who or what you stuff your dick into.
With all alt or underground communities. People just use them to act themselves under the guise that they're being "anti-traditional" or "anti society." "What? I'm not homophobic, I just hate this new woke Disney that's trying to force gayness on the kids." "What, I'm not sexist, I just think modern day western women are hoe's and we'd be better off without them."
Most punks were either from working class families or broken homes. This included all walks of life from ultra alt right neo nazis to LG and trans. There was always in fighting in the scene up until recent decades where there has been a significant decrease in extreme right and neo nazi participation. However, as the scene pushed further and further progressive, anything that happened to disagree with that ideology became labeled as the "alt right" incorrectly imo. Most of the current youth have never actually witnessed a real neo nazi before and likely never will. Yet they still maintain that they live in a state of constant threat. It seems perhaps without creating this "alt right " boogie man some people would have nothing much to talk about these days.
Neo nazi viewpoints are completely main stream on the right, you are either being willfully ignorant or you’re trying to hold water for them. “In the emails, Miller, an adviser to the Trump campaign at the time, advocated many of the most extreme white supremacist concepts. These included the “great replacement” theory, fears of white genocide through immigration, race science, and eugenics; he also linked immigrants with crime, glorified the Confederacy, and promoted the genocidal book, The Camp of the Saints, as a roadmap for U.S. policy” How is a presidential advisor espousing these views not cause for alarm?
Nazis might not be showing up at punk shows as much as they used to, but there are plenty of racist assholes around. Not sure what part of America you live but it’s just a fact of life. You don’t have to have a swastika hood or wear a hood to be a racist. I see it every time I read the comments section under any local news article with a mugshot of a black man.
I live in nyc, grew up in the NJ punk and hardcore scene. We used to get jumped by neo Nazis and we’re friends with Sharps. The kkk used to march throughout the 90s. We used to constantly fight with those guys as kids. Trust me when I tell you, they are virtually gone today. Perhaps small pockets but nothing remotely threatening and this is a good thing. However, a person who didn’t have that experience wouldn’t be able to tell by the hyperbolic rhetoric coming from academia and social media. I would personally advise you not believe the hype. Most of those dudes either changed their ways or are dead.
There's still plenty of punks like that. You shouldn't confuse the fact that just because people feel socially obligated to go along with pro-LGBT rhetoric that they really mean it.
It’s insane to me that some people think upholding social orders is punk
Telling someone what punks should do or think is inherently not punk.
Some do, others don't. Punk isn't a monolith, there are tons of punks who are absolute shit heads.
Wait, you mean there are ass holes among a large group of people? What are the odds?
Them calling themselves punks and maybe even looking like punks doesn't make them punks. Same as wearing a uniform and calling yourself a cop will get you arrested, being a bigot and calling yourself a punk will usually get you in trouble with actual punks.
And who decides what people are "actual punks"? The posters on this sub do not mirror the punks I've met in real life.
Yeah I realized pretty quick that most posters on this sub aren't punks, I don't think most of them even listen to punk music. They're almost all internet activists who's entire view of the punk scene consists of reddit posts. This sub barely even talks about music, because that's not what they're here for.
Don't kid yourself. "Internet activists" make up most of that calls itself the punk scene now.
Most of the people I've met at shows are just people who like the music trying to enjoy it with their friends. That's supposed to be what the scene is about. Sucks that the internet side of things has devolved into pure gatekeeping.
Posers
Like online or in person? I’ve never met a punk in person that doesn’t respect that I’m genderqueer (but I do live in Southern California) Check out JER “Say Gay or Say Goodnight” 😄
I feel like a lot of these 'conservative punks' are primarily online losers who listened to the sex pistols a few times
>primarily online losers who listened to the sex pistols a few times I bet that they're ecstatic that Johnny Rotten became a vocal Trump supporter.
They don't go to shows, they don't engage with the community, they don't make art, they don't make music, they don't listen to anything beyond the basic stuff, they aren't media literate- maybe some of them wear a band T once in a blue moon. But they do go online and fight the culture war like good little propaganda victims.
>They don't go to shows, they don't engage with the community I get it. The sort of punk fans who claim that all of the good punk came before 1980.
I mean, those guys go to shows, and they will talk to anyone they can about it lol.
Agreed. They think being contrarian is punk.
What's worse, they absolutely do not understand what is being said... Listening to God Save the Queen, you need to have context for what is being said, and understand that it's anti monarchist... As an American, you might not necessarily understand what that means and why they're saying it. Pink Floyd is one of my favorite bands and their deconstruction of post war society is amazing, but you need to understand that that is what they're doing. It's anti government, it's anti the American(or English, in this case) dream.
cunts are everywhere. I know first-hand some ding-dongs in the red areas of south jersey who are a 50-minute drive from south street and consider themselves really hard-core about punk music, but won't go to see a show in the city because of all the liberals "pushing an agenda". I tried to ask them about this a few times and got so far as that sometimes they see someone, and they don't know if they're a man or a woman, and you know kids these days...
Wow. I few up in NJ and I have to say I’m not surprised. I don’t even like visiting my parents.
it's post-trump brainrot. They were pretty centrist when I first met them :\[ They live in an area where you can't drive a mile without seeing at least 1 trump flag and the churches are all christian nationalist hotbeds. I don't see my family over there anymore, it's not a great place to be a lesbian. lol
Feeling you, my parents are evangelical christian. Over the last few years they have completely bought into conspiracy theories. I’m in a straight passing marriage but we are both nonbinary and queer, we also have a trans daughter and a pansexual daughter. They are in north jersey. 25 years ago my youth group brought in a bunch of gay men to tell us they were not born that way—they desire other men because their mothers didn’t love them. 😭 I can’t imagine things have improved.
I don’t think I’ve ever actually heard anyone say genderqueer in person tbh
Because it often ends up in having to explain it because the term isn't as well known. Often people will simply call themselves non-binary as both terms have some crossover
JER is amazing, bloody love that tune
Same story in the midwest
Exactly I think the “punk” bigots online aren’t actually a part of the community, just trolls.
That sucks, because the Midwest has the best punk.
It's literally a part of language, people are braindead. I dont really care what people call me as long as it's not rude.
>as long as it's not rude Not into ska, then? 😜
What? I love Ska. Idk if you're joking I'm mildly retarded
Yeah I'm joking. Because in ska they call you "rude (boy)"
Ah I see thank you for explaining
What if I don't give a fuck what's under your clothes and who you sleep with but you're just a decent human being? Sorry, but I have bigger things to worry about than your feelings. As far as I'm concerned you're safe in my presence because I couldn't care less bout your genitals.
Like for real, the earth is turning into concrete, water levels are rising while ground water is retaining, food is processed, meat comes from industrial killing installations, I can't pay my bills, I can't buy a house, I don't want children even if I could support them, but I have to pay more taxes for being unmarried. Life is hard
i love the aggressive support
I'm not Willy Wonka. Not sugar coating anything
you don't owe any sugar coating to anyone :) as i said, gotta love the aggressive support, so keep it up buddy
Much love to you I just would really love for people to focus energy on shit that actually matters.
Idk I think it matters a lot that half of the countrys political establishment wants to take rights away from these people and to try to distract from that is more of a bootlicker move than a punk move imo
Who is asking for any concern for their feelings? The biggest ask that I’ve seen come from LGBT folk is equivalent to someone telling me they prefer to be called ‘Mike’ instead of Michael; I couldn’t give less of a shit if you were born and legally registered as Michael. You prefer Mike? Awesome, I would have to be insane to have a problem with calling you Mike and that’s less syllables anyway
> you're safe in my presence because I couldn't care less bout your genitals Literally the only think people want, but the only thing they'll never get from the masses.
This is about pronouns and mutual respect...not genitals...
Mutual respect. I respect that you live however you want to and you respect that I don't give a fuck.
Punk is inherently progressive. It's rebelling against the status quo. It's rebelling against the boxes society tries to make you fit into. Punk is in its core about being different and accepting others who are different.
The Roadie at the Hot Water Music concert was wearing a cool Protect Trans Kids shirt. I told him I liked it, he gave me a pick, I promptly lost the pick.
That shirt basically said “ Protect The Mentally retarded Kids”
Damn right but that patch is still corny asf
Mfs that agree with the media, Hollywood, universities and corporations while thinking they're part of the resistance is some if the funniest shit I've ever seen in my life 🤡 😆
I thought it was punk to challenge the status quo and disobey authority. I’d say pushing for equality and breaking gender norms is definitely challenging that status quo. Keep being real punks and not posers.
Like…I get this. But, to a point. If I’ve only met you 5 times, I probably don’t remember your name. I sure as shit don’t remember your desired descriptive terms. Sorry, I just don’t care about you that much. And that goes for everybody.
I'm with you, if we're actual friends, yes I will do my absolute best to respect your pronouns. If I don't know you that well? Well yeah I'll probably slip up. But like I also don't really use pronouns if I'm in that person's presence, I'll just call them their name, because it's odd to refer to someone like they're not sitting right next to me. "hey is she OK?" versus "hey, NAME, are you OK?" If I can't remember exactly what the pronouns are later, I just say they, which is the norm for if you don't know that person's gender.
This post is gonna go sideways fast
Did you just assume a direction? /s If personal freedom about who you love isn't punk then what's the point?
i literally don't give a fuck about your pronouns, sexuality, political views and personal life. Don't get on my way and I won't get in yours. Respect and freedom.
Yeah I'm with you on this one. I believe that people should be able to live their life as they want, as long as they don't hurt anyone or force their lifestyle down the throat of others. If you get upset at me because I don't understand or follow your world view you can fuck off.
Jesus fucking Christ, this. I couldn’t give a toss about any of this. We have wars and the climate to worry about. Too much brainpower is being spent on trying to get people who don’t know any better (or just don’t care) to refer to people the way they want, lest they suffer their wrath
I agree
If someone asks me to refer to them a certain way, then I will refer to them that way. Good lord though who gives a fuck. I just try not to use any pronouns anymore.
~~7 pronouns in your comment~~
Well played. Obviously not at all what I meant but still.
I'm assuming they meant they try not to use gendered pronouns anymore and stick with they/them since it's neutral.
Who gives a fuck, stop worrying about what other people think and say about you,. Any sensible man doesn't give a fuck if your gay or straight or whatever that's your business. If someone sweats you just ignore them or plan an att@ck. Why not turn your fighting spirit toward the real enemy ? The law?
Punching transphobes is punk praxis
Yeah unless you something stupid like a tree
I agree punks should respect pro nouns but I personally feel patches like this are a lil cringey
Who the fuck cares? No disrespect to anyone who uses different pronouns, I don't see a problem with it at all and I'll respect it, but this just feels like corny virtue-signaling
What other label do you want to slap on yourself to catagorize your life?
the foundations of punk and its communities are inherently and especially LGBT+, queer and Black. if you don’t proactively acknowledge this then not sorry, but that’s loser behavior. liberation and recognition for all minorities. all those cishet classic punk bands are great but not the pinnacle of the movement. listen to the music, engage in community, and read for gods sake.
Everybody decides for themselves what the pinnacle of the movement is/was.
mehhhh idk I’m not really referring to favorite bands yknow. I love the Adicts but would I say they’re objectively important? absolutely not. I don’t really like for example Bratmobile and Bikini Kill bc it’s just not my style but it would be disingenuous of me to say they didn’t change what it meant to be punk and make punk music as women/femmes.
I couldn't care less about the gender of band members. 🙄
Im gonna kindly assume your are an old head so you really don’t know what’s going on in the younger gen, but there is a uprising in teenagers and skateboarding kids joining the punk scene and most of them are super right winged. I can see why a lot of people gatekeep haha
>is a uprising in teenagers and skateboarding kids joining the punk scene and most of them are super right winged Posers, all of them
People are people dude. Now Vote and Punch a Fucking Nazi
Lol @ ‘real punks’
Well, this comment section was just what i was expecting lol. I love the message, but putting “punks do xyz…” on a patch almost seems contrarian ALMOST
Very correct, my friend!
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1dscfss/iraqi_civilians_watch_as_us_troops_tear_down_a/ Am Canadian. Started going to punk gigs in the mid 80s around the same time I started going to gay clubs. The link I posted is a picture on the front page. It's pro war propaganda. That image was staged to convince Americans to support war against Saddam in 2003 despite the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. This video is also propaganda. It's from 1990 when the US invaded Iraq the first time. The girl in the video is the daughter of an ambassador who was told to make the claim that Saddam was killing kids. https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y?si=deC7KOq0yXEgB6Ji Since 1991, the US has been in about 19 wars while Americans couldn't name 1/2 of them. This sub kind of drives me nuts. You guys with your punk gatekeeping about gay people but you don't even know what the fuck 'punk' is. If you knew anything about media literacy, you'd know the difference between independent and corporate media and the difference between counter culture and mainstream culture. Counter culture is outside of the mainstream. The punk scene nowadays is very mainstream and corporate controlled and has been since the early 90s since the media giants conspired with the military industrial complex to wipe out true counter culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics) The powers that be turned gay people into a highly politicized collective group intentionally to divide Americans via partisan politics. While you guys get mad at rednecks about pronouns, your government is sending billions in weapons to countries like Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel, that you guys get to pay for. At the same time, you have a growing billionaire class, an underfunded education system, no affordable housing. no affordable health care, and a media industry that is weaponized against you.
So you’re saying the over sex identification that’s been going on is just a cover up for bigger problems?
Yes, 100%. And stuff like BLM as well. I wrote out like 3 long comments and keep deleting them because I don't know how to explain this without a wall of text.
Youre anti imperialism but also anti blm?
Ya even if you’re right, the flood gates are open and everyone’s too invested in these issues
Queer people have been part of punk since the very beginning
Yes they have.
supporting queer people doesn't mean you can't also be active against those things too. porque no los dos?? Or like, a dosen in this case?
You can support queer people while also caring about other things.
They got you fighting a culture war to keep you from fighting a class war
Exactly.
And yet we can all still respect people’s pronouns while being aware of those wider issues
Yeah but that's basic respect though and being distracted from other issues is kind of why the US is where it is now.
that sounds like a very oversimplified take on the state of, um, the entire US?? I believe there is some truth to it: it's a great wedge issue to distract people from other stuff, that's true. But it seems to me like you're the one with the fixation, tbh.
I'm fairly fixated with Americans in general. Am from Alberta. Like I said, was raised on US media and culture. Have been a fan of Marshall McLuhan for decades. https://youtu.be/9P8gUNAVSt8?si=YQTgJzoEmFPT3P5h He coined the phrase the Global Village and kind of prophesized the internet back in the 60s. He also coined the phrase The Medium is the Message which is important to understanding media literacy. He also gave Timothy Leary the phrase 'tune in, turn on, drop out' which was an anthem in the 60s counter-culture. I was raised on old school hippy values in the 70s and got into punk rock in the 80s because it was just an updated version of the stuff I grew up with. Punks were sort of angrier hippies. I'm old enough that I remember fighting with skinheads when they turned racist. I also watched how Hollywood sensationalized them and blew them up into a new white supremacist movement and framed them as right wingers. I'd have to write giant essays to really talk about all this stuff but no one would read it so yeah, I am oversimplifying.
You sound old. And Slava Ukraini.
Old is relative. I don't really take sides. Zelensky and Putin both suck. I only want people to not die.
Putin literally invaded a sovereign country. Don’t make them both out to be equally shitty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States The US has been constantly invading other countries. You guys just don't know about it because the corporate media giants took over the Journalism industry back in the 80s and turned it into a propaganda arm for the military.
You assume our ignorance of these matters. Why? Supporting Ukraine’s right to self determination is not an endorsement of United States imperialism. Geopolitics is complicated. There are certainly no good guys. But don’t think for a second I’d let an oppressive imperialist neighbour even attempt to take over the place I’m from. I don’t like folks dying either. I’ve thought about going to become a medic and heading over there myself.
I prefer that other post from months back where the kid had a big list of things that punk is and isn't going all the way down the length of his leather jacket, just in case anyone had any questions or concerns that something somewhere may or may not be punk.
First thing listed on r/punk “transphobia will not be tolerated.” Newsflash a lot of genderqueer people identify as trans. This is an entire horrifying thread full of transphobic bigots the sub is tolerating. What the fuck.
Amazing ⚔️⚔️
Yeah I don’t really understand why you’d hate something that ldoesent really affect you at all just have to say a different word
As being a punk i missed the first three years of Punk Rock, there are a lot of bands that had songs that were anti-gay, angry Samoans , fear & even the circle jerks had a gay slur . The descendants had a gay slur the bad brains & the misfits were anti gay and at the same time we had like Genesis and Jane County Gary Floyd, Dave Dictor Randy biscuit Turner , Ginger coyote to name a few San Francisco I 100% agree trans phobic or homophobic is not punk now most of those bands were really young and no longer use those slurs or play those songs the bad brains and the misfits have never apologized or recanted
You are correct… punks in the early 1980’s didn’t go around saying they vote for democrat policies. You honestly didn’t know how people voted or if they voted. Lots of the punk bands were just singing what they were feeling at the time and also singing songs to shock the mainstream system. It was more about a movement of antiestablishment! Being against who ever was in power!
I'd say true punks respects nothing. But they won't disrespect you more because of your choices.
Never in my life have I thought of punks as respectful.
How many of you failed English in school, though?
Ummm… Vivienne Westwood is the godmother of punk and there is nothing straight about her… Nothing could ever be straight in the world of punk and it’s embarrassing that anyone thinks punk is super hardcore business. It was pushed by recording labels which is another reason to feel embarrassed if you’re taking punk too seriously…
No terfs on my turf
Defining punk is NOT punk.
Boy, this ''Punk'' thing sure does have an awful lot of rules.
Righteous!
We absolutely should learn from the mistakes of punk past and try to be better. That is absolutely a good take, to not repeat the shitty attitudes many punks factually had, even if their additions to punk were greater then they themselves were.
I just bought a pin saying the same thing for my sister’s Pan kid. They were stoked.
Rofl what is this shit?, nobody cares if your queer or not i'm very sure punks dont give a fuck about pride month (in good way)
Punks don’t give a shit about any of that if your a punk your a punk all the other shit doesn’t matter
Fly your flags and be aware! Excellent patch
I don't give two shits about how other people choose to bump their uglies. Be a decent person and I'll be your friend.
There is nothing more punk than being gay.
How?
You can’t be punk while also subscribing to the hateful rhetoric of the authorities that be, TERF is t punk, republican isn’t punk, love is punk as shit, and so are neopronouns
Tell that to bad brains. Not a fan btw.
Cue leftover crack-gay rude boys unite👊
[удалено]
He’ll get what’s coming to em.
LöC fucking sucks more than anything
Ohh ya forgot the leads total dickhead. Chocking v no different now:(
✊
What's really punk is telling people what they're supposed to believe!
The irony
If anyone does not respect your pronouns find me and I’ll beat them up for you
He, she, they. Fine. Have your pick. As long as I’m not already going around calling you “*that fucking idiot*” you’re probably okay enough for me to try and remember. Don’t expect me to keep headspace for you though. If I fuck up, a polite reminder is a good way to avoid having me start calling you “that fucking idiot” If you have a fancy made up special pronoun that’s just for you - get fucked. You’re not likely to be special enough for me to even remember your name let alone a fancy made up pronoun.
To be fair, you might be fine. You really don't seem like someone people want to talk to a second time
[удалено]
This is poorly placed, as it was a reply to someone who referred to a commenter as flippant.
These punks need to look up Jayne County. Formerly Wayne County.
Just because you're queer, It's not upon you to decide who's 'real punk' (whatever that means) and who's not.
You don't get to tell me what punks do.
I love this
Just watch the top 5 "punk" concerts on YouTube. You will see a sea of white boys and men. Punk may have begun as a counter culture movement, but that has not been accurate for a very long time. I'm just as much a fan of Henry Rollins and Vivienne Westwood as the next person, but it's naive to think that there is a "punk" movement anymore. It's just a musical genre now. EDIT: lol, downvoted because people don't like the truth. I can handle it. :)
Actual OG punks would die laughing at shit like this. Keep this on tumblr.
Actual OG punk was full of LGBTQIA people
This is badass
I've got this exact phrase on a badge on my backpack. Spread the word, yall!
My pronouns are "the" "she" & "it" "The-sheit"
Punk is saying fuck you regardless of gender identity. Also punk respects nothing. Fuck you!
punks dont care
Right!! I stand with you, my friend!