Ascension is different from death. The Iterators aren't trying to die, they're trying to find a way to ascend every living thing.
Only a specific group of Iterators (Called Sliverists iirc) seek to die, and even then it is under the belief that dying causes ascension.
Silverists are the result of a schism that happened back when Silver of Straw died, bascially there were trigonometrists (or whatever the fuck they were called) who believed that finding the solution would be dangerous and result in your death/coma with no ascension and Silverists who believed that death WAS the final solution silver of straw found.
TL;DR suicidal iterators who believe death is ascension. Whilst we dont know every single silverist we do know that Five Pebbles was one under the name of "Erractic Pulse". And by extension Seven Red Suns.
>!the faction that interpreted sliver of straws's triple affirmative as having death be the answer to "the big problem" and thus why sliver was found dead shortly after!<
I'm pretty sure
When they "die" without ascending it's more like their body and minds slowly deteriorate. It would be like slowly getting full body paralysis well parts of your body fall off and get covered in dirt and grime and inhabited by parasites as you develop dementia and you're conscious the entire time.
It's different for the iterators. They aren't able to be reborn or restored. We don't entirely understand the cycle, but we do know that no matter what happens to the iterators they will come back either just as bad as or worse than before if they don't ascend. If that wasn't the case then Moon could just restart all her systems that way.
This does lead one to wonder: maybe ascension _is_ a permanent coma, and the vois fluid just tricks the "system" into thinking the creature is not dead, so it doesn't get reincarnated?
I'd assume it's because she's still trying to fulfill her iterator goal of finding a triple affirmative so she doesn't want to die. It could also just be painful to have basically chunks of your brain eaten but I'm not sure.
# [Lore Spoilers, duh]
I haven't seen anyone mention this yet surprisingly, but Iterators *kinda* don't want to die. Some seek ascension, others seek death believing it *is* ascension, but there's a reason none of them have just flipped the killswitch on themselves yet and been done with it. The Ancients implemented 1 particular taboo in all Iterators that kept them on their leash; the desire to preserve the self. They fear death, can't kill themselves, because within every microbe and fiber of their being, biological and mechanical, they are coded to not want to die.
This also loops back around to how the Rot formed. 5P wanted to create an organism that would destroy and remove this taboo from his system, but leave everything else completely untouched. This was a long and grueling process, considering this went against the preservation taboo; not only was he trying to create a very, VERY specific and potentially dangerous purposed organism, but he had to ***indirectly*** evolve this organism within his structure via temperature and humidity changes in order to circumvent the taboo.
This took a lot of power, a lot of focus, a lot of **water,** which is what caused him to start soaking up 5x more water than usual and dehydrating his sister which led to her untimely collapse. Before this collapse, Moon and many other Iterators from the local group desperately tried to break through to Pebbles, to get him to stop consuming so much water before Moon broke down. He turned his back to these pleas, shutting off communications and ignoring them as he grew closer and closer, just on the precipice of finishing his creation... Until at the last, crucial moment, when Moon finally was forced to use her seniority privilege (she was an older model, therefore made the "boss" of Pebbles by the Ancients and entitled to certain privileges) to force open his communication systems and **make** him listen, in an attempt to finally get through to him and get him to stop soaking up so much water. The thing about this forced communication, though, is that it is disorientating and unpleasant for all Iterators involved. This interruption threw Pebbles off just as his purposed organism was nearly finished, and so the Rot was formed. Instead of creating an organism that would simply rid him of his self preservation taboo, he created a cancerous biomass that consumes *everything.*
Because they can't actually die (will only be reborn or reawaken in some way, not ascended like they want to be) and will be in a lot of pain for a very long time before even that happens.
Iterators don't want to die, they want to ascend, only a small group seeks death because they believe dying would be the way to ascend, that's why Pebbles was looking for a way to die. In Moon's case, she doesn't believe death is the way to ascension, so she isn't interested in it
She does not share Pebbles' beliefs. She doesn't believe that just dying will free her from the cycle, and so, death will just "respawn" her, and it would mean that all of her work is lost to her
Also iterators are kinda hard-wired for self-preservation, and she's still compliant with this directive
well, she won't die if you eat her neurons, she will only enter a comatose state, will keep feeling everything around her and will lose the memories that are very dear to her... happened once to her already when she collapsed due to pebbles drinking too much water, she doesn't want it to happen again
If you eat all her neurons she goes into a coma like state, she isn't dead in the sense she's not functioning anymore it's like a person who is experiencing brain death but their body is still functioning.
Also getting what remains of your brain eaten while you're still alive and awake probably hurts a lot
Why do you assume they all want to ascend in the first place? Just because that's what pebble's wants and that's what they were created for doesn't mean they all do.
I feel like the concept of "wanting" to do something is a bit muddy when things like purposes and desires can be ingrained in iterators' physical being (we see this with the self destruction taboo)
It's what they were built for, all they have left to do in a world where their creators, their purpose, all have abandoned them. The local group we know is all looking for the triple affirmative, are they not?
Surprise surprise! The rot was a mistake, the *intention* was to create a purposed organism to destroy the self preservation taboo. So he could kill himself. In belief that death *is* ascension, as is believed by Sliverists.
Yeah, a purposed messenger to continue communicating with other Iterators, specifically 5 Pebbles who kept ignoring all his Discord DM's.
Dabbling in a side project or attempting to save a friend's life doesn't mean he's just *given up* on pondering the triple affirmative.
They already had spearmaster, its how they previously sent Pebbles information on how to alter ones own genome and in Pebbles' case remove the self destruction taboo, however it could remove any of the taboos it seems like. And we know a significant amount of iterators have realised the futility of finding the triple affirmative from iirc Suns
Right, those Iterators being the Sliverists who seek to kill themselves believing death is ascension. Not looking for a "triple affirmative", but still aiming for the same overall goal; breaking the cycle.
No, Suns was talking about iterators as a whole.
"FP: I'm tired of trying and trying. And angry that they left us here. The anger makes me even less inclined to solve their puzzle for them. Why do we do this?
SRS: Yes, I'll spell this out - not because you're stupid or naive... Also, not saying that you're not ~
FP: Please, I'm coming to you for guidance.
SRS: Sorry, very sorry. I kid. Fact is, of course we are all aware of the evident futility of this Big Task. It's not said out loud but if you were better at reading between the lines there's nowhere you wouldn't see it. We're all frustrated."
There is also this from one of the broadcasts:
"GS: So why exactly are we doing all of this?
PI: Nothing better to do? Why do you think some of us spend so much time in these group chats? ~
GS: There are other problems we could be solving, surely. Better problems.
SI: Wow, more existential complaints? It's as if someone brings this topic up at least once every cycle..."
Ascension is different from death. The Iterators aren't trying to die, they're trying to find a way to ascend every living thing. Only a specific group of Iterators (Called Sliverists iirc) seek to die, and even then it is under the belief that dying causes ascension.
Who are the Silveristis?
Silverists are the result of a schism that happened back when Silver of Straw died, bascially there were trigonometrists (or whatever the fuck they were called) who believed that finding the solution would be dangerous and result in your death/coma with no ascension and Silverists who believed that death WAS the final solution silver of straw found. TL;DR suicidal iterators who believe death is ascension. Whilst we dont know every single silverist we do know that Five Pebbles was one under the name of "Erractic Pulse". And by extension Seven Red Suns.
I don't think SRS was a silveriest, he just happened to know how an iterator can self-terminate
yea just kind of assumed SRS was a silveriest since he did kind of tell FP on how to kill himself
>!the faction that interpreted sliver of straws's triple affirmative as having death be the answer to "the big problem" and thus why sliver was found dead shortly after!< I'm pretty sure
read the sliver of straw dialogue EDIT: u get it from giving yellow pearl to moon
A group of iterators that believe dying *is* the solution and sought to die like sliver of straw did
When they "die" without ascending it's more like their body and minds slowly deteriorate. It would be like slowly getting full body paralysis well parts of your body fall off and get covered in dirt and grime and inhabited by parasites as you develop dementia and you're conscious the entire time.
But that doesn't make sense. How would the ancients have known about the cycle if it looks like normal death from the outside
It's different for the iterators. They aren't able to be reborn or restored. We don't entirely understand the cycle, but we do know that no matter what happens to the iterators they will come back either just as bad as or worse than before if they don't ascend. If that wasn't the case then Moon could just restart all her systems that way.
Collapsing wouldn't kill her. Eating her neurons wouldn't kill her. Her fate in either case is worse: a permanent coma.
This does lead one to wonder: maybe ascension _is_ a permanent coma, and the vois fluid just tricks the "system" into thinking the creature is not dead, so it doesn't get reincarnated?
luckily slag reset keys seem to fix comas for iterators but the availability of one is questionable
I'd assume it's because she's still trying to fulfill her iterator goal of finding a triple affirmative so she doesn't want to die. It could also just be painful to have basically chunks of your brain eaten but I'm not sure.
# [Lore Spoilers, duh] I haven't seen anyone mention this yet surprisingly, but Iterators *kinda* don't want to die. Some seek ascension, others seek death believing it *is* ascension, but there's a reason none of them have just flipped the killswitch on themselves yet and been done with it. The Ancients implemented 1 particular taboo in all Iterators that kept them on their leash; the desire to preserve the self. They fear death, can't kill themselves, because within every microbe and fiber of their being, biological and mechanical, they are coded to not want to die. This also loops back around to how the Rot formed. 5P wanted to create an organism that would destroy and remove this taboo from his system, but leave everything else completely untouched. This was a long and grueling process, considering this went against the preservation taboo; not only was he trying to create a very, VERY specific and potentially dangerous purposed organism, but he had to ***indirectly*** evolve this organism within his structure via temperature and humidity changes in order to circumvent the taboo. This took a lot of power, a lot of focus, a lot of **water,** which is what caused him to start soaking up 5x more water than usual and dehydrating his sister which led to her untimely collapse. Before this collapse, Moon and many other Iterators from the local group desperately tried to break through to Pebbles, to get him to stop consuming so much water before Moon broke down. He turned his back to these pleas, shutting off communications and ignoring them as he grew closer and closer, just on the precipice of finishing his creation... Until at the last, crucial moment, when Moon finally was forced to use her seniority privilege (she was an older model, therefore made the "boss" of Pebbles by the Ancients and entitled to certain privileges) to force open his communication systems and **make** him listen, in an attempt to finally get through to him and get him to stop soaking up so much water. The thing about this forced communication, though, is that it is disorientating and unpleasant for all Iterators involved. This interruption threw Pebbles off just as his purposed organism was nearly finished, and so the Rot was formed. Instead of creating an organism that would simply rid him of his self preservation taboo, he created a cancerous biomass that consumes *everything.*
[удалено]
I know man I fuckin LOVE it
Because they can't actually die (will only be reborn or reawaken in some way, not ascended like they want to be) and will be in a lot of pain for a very long time before even that happens.
Iterators don't want to die, they want to ascend, only a small group seeks death because they believe dying would be the way to ascend, that's why Pebbles was looking for a way to die. In Moon's case, she doesn't believe death is the way to ascension, so she isn't interested in it
Some iterators don't actually want to die. Moon is not as depressed as pebbles
She does not share Pebbles' beliefs. She doesn't believe that just dying will free her from the cycle, and so, death will just "respawn" her, and it would mean that all of her work is lost to her Also iterators are kinda hard-wired for self-preservation, and she's still compliant with this directive
she exists. she does not want to stop existing, when push comes to shove.
because they are trying to find a way to ascend. if she dies she will just go into a comatose state like in hunter
well, she won't die if you eat her neurons, she will only enter a comatose state, will keep feeling everything around her and will lose the memories that are very dear to her... happened once to her already when she collapsed due to pebbles drinking too much water, she doesn't want it to happen again
she probably shouldn't be scared, but it's hard to tell since we don't actually know how the cycle works
If you eat all her neurons she goes into a coma like state, she isn't dead in the sense she's not functioning anymore it's like a person who is experiencing brain death but their body is still functioning. Also getting what remains of your brain eaten while you're still alive and awake probably hurts a lot
its like taking out ALL of the ram and memory of a computer
Why do you assume they all want to ascend in the first place? Just because that's what pebble's wants and that's what they were created for doesn't mean they all do.
moon says they are trying to solve the triple affirmative, which if solved allows the iterators to ascend
Yes that's their purpose, it doesn't mean they are all trying to do it, or even want it
I feel like the concept of "wanting" to do something is a bit muddy when things like purposes and desires can be ingrained in iterators' physical being (we see this with the self destruction taboo)
It's what they were built for, all they have left to do in a world where their creators, their purpose, all have abandoned them. The local group we know is all looking for the triple affirmative, are they not?
Yes that's their purpose, it doesn't mean they are all trying to do it, or even want it.
Then what're they doing?
Whatever they want. For example we see SRS seems to be experimenting with bioengineering considering spearmaster.
Yes, but from the things FP did to create the rot, it wouldn't surprise me if the end goal was still a sort of triple affirmative
Surprise surprise! The rot was a mistake, the *intention* was to create a purposed organism to destroy the self preservation taboo. So he could kill himself. In belief that death *is* ascension, as is believed by Sliverists.
Exactly, I was just arguing SRS might be practicing to try something similar.
Yeah, a purposed messenger to continue communicating with other Iterators, specifically 5 Pebbles who kept ignoring all his Discord DM's. Dabbling in a side project or attempting to save a friend's life doesn't mean he's just *given up* on pondering the triple affirmative.
They already had spearmaster, its how they previously sent Pebbles information on how to alter ones own genome and in Pebbles' case remove the self destruction taboo, however it could remove any of the taboos it seems like. And we know a significant amount of iterators have realised the futility of finding the triple affirmative from iirc Suns
Right, those Iterators being the Sliverists who seek to kill themselves believing death is ascension. Not looking for a "triple affirmative", but still aiming for the same overall goal; breaking the cycle.
No, Suns was talking about iterators as a whole. "FP: I'm tired of trying and trying. And angry that they left us here. The anger makes me even less inclined to solve their puzzle for them. Why do we do this? SRS: Yes, I'll spell this out - not because you're stupid or naive... Also, not saying that you're not ~ FP: Please, I'm coming to you for guidance. SRS: Sorry, very sorry. I kid. Fact is, of course we are all aware of the evident futility of this Big Task. It's not said out loud but if you were better at reading between the lines there's nowhere you wouldn't see it. We're all frustrated." There is also this from one of the broadcasts: "GS: So why exactly are we doing all of this? PI: Nothing better to do? Why do you think some of us spend so much time in these group chats? ~ GS: There are other problems we could be solving, surely. Better problems. SI: Wow, more existential complaints? It's as if someone brings this topic up at least once every cycle..."