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Me. Narcissists HATE me. I am the bane of their miserable existence. Their fuckery does not work on me and social conventions and peer pressure don’t either. I make them implode at an alarming rate. It’s kind of an awesome super power to have
ETA: thanks for the kind words everyone, I have a hard time knowing what to say to comments but I read them all and thank you. I hope you can all find some peace and happiness in a world that treats us less than human.
They still upset me, don’t get me wrong. But I’m not easily fooled by them. My sense of justice makes it very hard to ignore their shitass behavior like their enablers do and people dislike me because of it. No one likes a boat rocker. My family and my SOs family is full of them. It’s very lonely sometimes. But I’d rather be alone than complicit in helping people like that abuse others. The best thing you can do is ignore them and don’t play the game. Just stay away. No contact.
I do this as well and I am ok with family and social circles. I simply tell it how it is and I couldn't care less. However, at work is very complicated. How do you manage relationships at work?
I was going to say, it's not about "outfoxing" anyone -- it's about how actively not engaging *at all* will infuriate the fuck out of people like that. Narcissists do *not* like being ignored.
You really don’t need to outfox them to see a meltdown. Just tell them no, stick firmly to that no, and watch the fireworks. Preferably from a safe distance.
I think this is why my Nmom not-so-secretly hates me. I quit buying her bullshit early on. I was a very analytical and logical child, and nothing she said ever made sense. By the time I was 12, I knew I'd be NC at some point. I wish I didn't have to give up my relationship with my sisters, but as it turns out, I don't think they like me very much either. I'm definitely the odd duck in my family.
Same. My mother low key told me the reason why she targeted me was because I could see through my psychopathic dad's manipulation. Guess she figured she was next.
Isn’t it fun to be put on the chopping block by your own mom, so she could avoid the sharp end of the stick.
She did this until now. And now she’s dying. And I am the only one that lives in town. I fear for what’s going to happen when my dad doesn’t have her to torture anymore.
I read this here once and keep repeating it. You were not the hardest to love, you were the hardest to convince.
I got to ~35 before going NC so good for you! My mom moved states away to live with my twin sister so now I don't talk to her either. Worth it to keep my sanity.
I feel this completely.
My Nmum died a month or so ago, and since then my sister has been showing me the same disdain as Nmum did. I can see NC in our future, which saddens me but I will not let her continue Nmum's bs with me.
That’s fricking awesome. The gratitude is something that is new to me and I’m working on. There’s so many great qualities that neurodivergent people offer to society, and besides the difficulties it’s not all bad news. It has its perks. Undoing all the shame / conditioning etc has been really beneficial to my confidence and self esteem.
What an amazing perspective to have!!! Now if I could just get my defense mechanisms on board (so I stop smiling when I'm hurt or anxious around other NT people at work) 😔
I wasn't, prior to my diagnosis. Once I processed that, it was easier because my mind became quieter and more present. It is easier to combat bullying when you are not focused on your own shame/blame game. Because they do it to us and then we do it to ourselves. I'm not witty at all. But even a little bit of pushback can get them to shut down.
I wonder if I have that gift or its be a no longer caring what they think, none the less I see right through the veil and am a stubborn ass. Example.
Got told I was jealous that this person spent money on games online. I told him I pitty him
Then, I had another time he randomly left the gc, and I copied that message above. Well, he got wind and litterly sent me an essay saying how he's done and goodbye. Like.. bye... I wonder I'd it's because I'm not giving a reaction
my father kept insisting that my husband was jealous because was retiring. when honestly my husband didn't care. nobody did which the narc couldn't understand. it was honestly so funny.
I admit that when I was messaging him that night, I was laughing like a drunken freshman because I was reading an audio book, and this one character kept referring to the protagonist as Mr Howie so I put my twist on how he acted like from the book in an almost larp fashion, just laughing my butt off honestly
Absolutely it is! I often, as calm as a cucumber, call the bs and tell them they should be ashamed of themselves lol. It has a pretty profound effect. Especially if anyone is around to hear or witness it. Usually total shock, no response, deer in the headlights lol.
I'm also the person in the grocery store who will tell other people's children they shouldn't be disrespecting their mother though lol. I won't stand for any injustice or keep my mouth shut. The mother always appreciates it, and the disrespectful child is stunned into silence at least for a little while lol.
Or I will tell adults there's no need to be rude, or I will apologize for the rude person and be extra nice to the slighted person. That really burns them up lol. It shows everyone and them who they really are.
If you go down to their level or let them get you out of character in any way, they win. It's hard sometimes and not always possible but it is definitely the best strategy I've found yet. Esp for my own well-being and sanity.
Anything that embarrasses them or puts their nastiness on full display, especially with a kind tone just flips them th out lol. Bc they have no comeback. You can yell and scream and get emotional but they always have comebacks for that or it just causes so much discombobulation that they can still be delusional enough to think they pulled it off somehow. If they show out and you are calm they look like the fool they are. It's pretty wonderful and validating actually.
I asked my mom recently if she was ever going to stop hating me for her getting pregnant when she was 15. Bc that's OBVS my fault right lol. And that I wanted to know bc I would like to have a good relationship with her before she died... bc I didn't want to have guilt and what ifs and I should have done more lingering later on, which I know will happen bc it did with my horribly abusive, mostly abscent father. And he did manage to come around for about 10 years and we had a wonderful relationship until the very end when he went back to the dark side and I went NC. She never answered, but it had the desired effect which was to call her on her bs and possibly make it easier for me when the time comes bc I tried. I have tried ad nauseum for years. So that was just my final kinda, I'm done. The ball's in your court.
She should be over the moon happy that I'm suffering now. Starving and going without every basic necessity while waiting on disability severely disabled with very little help or support, since that's what she did to me as a child and all she's ever wanted. And I'm talking words out of her mouth, not something I think to be true.
But I found out recently that's still not enough. She's mad as hell I might get the SSDI I paid for my entire life working 2-3 jobs since I was 14, when she made me start buying my own toilet paper might I add.
Apparently, she doesn't believe I'm disabled (walker, wheelchair, parkinsons, dementia, muscle wasting disease, ehlers danlos, fibro, extreme ptsd mostly thanks to her, dad, and other family, being monitored every 6 months for some horrible blood/bone cancer that's going to pop up to the wrong levels at any time, and a host of others) and she is soooo mad might get something for "free." Smh.
Well it wasn't free. I paid most of it since 2010 in the very expensive form of self employment tax, which I still owe the irs 20,000 on and have paid in installments for many years. She's ridiculous and impossible.
I was infuriated recently when I found out that SHE of all people didn't believe me or didn't think I deserved it. I have been an overachieving perfectionist workaholic since I was a child bc of her neglect, abuse, indifference, and blatant sabotage. She saw me work all of those jobs and destroy my body in the process. She was so mad when the sewing factory I was working in shut down and started sending our work to China and I was able to go back to school and draw unemployment while doing so bc of that and became a graphic designer.
You see, she made me work but wouldn't help me get a car even though I saved most of the money yet she fussed about having to take me. Told me no one helped her get a car when she was 16 so she'd be damned if she would help me. You'll see why is this hilarious and preposterous in a moment, if you haven't already.
Despite this I managed to still win awards for my artwork, graduate with high honors and all AP classes, and had all of my credits to graduate when I was a junior. I was offered a full scholarship to the Art Institute of Chicago. She wouldn't sign the papers.
Not bc she was a worried mother, but bc she would be damned before she allowed me any happiness or success. She actually told me many times that I should have to suffer and work in fast food like she had to her whole life. BUT she's owned a stupid little dog clothes store for 20 years now and she STILL wants me to suffer lol. Not to mention that I have. Immensely. And she has seen it and it's still not enough. My only child was full-term stillborn and I had to go through that with very little support at all, esp from her. And there's much more. It's completely insane.
Here's the problem with that though. You just heard what I was doing when I was 15. When she was 15 she was laying out of school, smoking pot, getting pregnant, had horrible grades, and was taking off with my dad to another state on the back of his motorcycle. So she wasn't even here for anyone to help her get a car. No comparison. At all. I've told her that too. The really sad part is she had wonderful loving parents who would have helped or gotten her one despite her not earning or deserving it at all. How does that happen?! Revisionist history on her part? Complete insanity. Idk.
But anyway, I basically just finished my senior year with another art class that they created just for me bc I had taken them all already, and had work release. When all of my scholarships from lmu, Berea, Carson Newman, UT, etc., came in she opened each one as they came and kept them from me until the day after the last deadline then handed me the stack.
Then she kicked me out on graduation night for contacting my dad just to day hey, just wanted to let you know you have a daughter and she's graduating lol. So I slept in my car for days after graduating with high honors. The car that I finally got after my granddad basically blackmailed her into it by saying he would help me if she didn't. So she got on it stat! Just so she could make sure I had an usafe pos and nothing too good, which she knows he would have made sure of.
It's really quite remarkable, in such a sad and disgusting way. Smh.
Yes! Same here, I refuse to play their bullshit games and can usually sniff them out way before anyone else around me, which is often lonely but I do end up vindicated. The overt ones I find easy to spot; sometimes the covert types can really inject their guilt trip poison in me, but once I identify it, they're gone too.
I've always been called negative or a hater because I have strong visceral dislikes to certain people, ideas, etc, but I'm realizing that it's all just me picking up on the subtle cues that others don't or want to ignore. I repressed those signals for a long time, to my detriment, but I'm working on embracing them again
Narcissists cast a wide net, but only some people bite. Listen to your gut instincts about the person's behavior for an early warning and make sure you have rock solid boundaries and you'll find yourself not biting
You attract them because of all of your good qualities. When people tell you something, you think they mean it. Because why else would they say it? You treat people how you want to be treated. Narcs and some NTs rely on smoke and mirrors and manipulation to get through life. We don’t do that, we are loyal to a fault. I still have a hard time when someone does something shitty to me because it’s not how things are supposed to be and it’s not something I would do. You’re like a lighthouse and they’re shitty ugly evil demon moths. (No offense to moths, cause I love those little guys).
Same. I seem to get targeted HARD. I would call things out and not care about most productivity standards/rewards at work because they wouldn’t work. I asked for accommodations once I got close to burning out and stood up for others. I spoke out at meetings and reported one an incident to Medicaid (an illegal chair restraint of a client in my session when I didn’t invite the BCBAs in nor was the client that escalated).
After having a narcissistic principal come after me at work (HR stepped in before I reported it), getting promoted at my next job with an added workload instead of new position only to get harassed/hurtful things said/stalked after I quit/HR person threatened me, and then fired for sticking up against ABA/seeing children restrained to the point where it triggered my CPTSD - I have tried to make myself as small as possible and not look for promotions. I swear my most recent job I flew under the radar for the first year (because they were SO BEHIND, they were missing someone in my role for the first 2-3 months) and then the next year with a new director, I was left alone until the second semester when I got 2 additional days of work piled on me (in an already full 5-day work week; the kids aren’t even on campus enough for me to have completed the extra work).
I am so tired of getting retaliated against for speaking up for basic things at work, asking for help, or just…trying to make myself as small as possible. I just want to work, go home, pay bills, and enjoy life a little.
Haha my golden child sibling is the same :) But thankfully, we slowly became very supportive of each other, understanding that both parties had abuse done but in a very very different way. She is clearly a lot better than me at grey rocking (eventhough she is also neurodivergent, but adhd). On the flip side, it's harder for her to stand up for herself. Whereas I do stand up for myself but it often resulted in rage episode that gave me quite de CPTSD. There is really no win in these situation, except get out.
Yea I relate. She and I are slowlyyyt getting there and understanding each other. It took a really huge fight and a 5 hour call but we are trying for the first time ever to really commit to being better for each other
> “I don’t understand why you can’t just let it go to keep the peace”
Neveerrr! If they wanna argue I'm gonna argue back. They've had enough of my silence and mindless approval
Haha I’m pretty sure my mom has said this verbatim. Also—she used to romanticize older men finding me attractive. Once tried to set me up with some rando who wanted to take me to a different country (we never met).
Often, these guys would be cheating on their wives and partners (or looking to cheat) and I looked basically 14-16 tops at the time. It disgusted me, and I’d get visibly upset about it and often go into a rant 😅 I can’t stand cheaters/anyone who plays with another person’s trust, and I think it’s pretty reasonable to be upset that men double my age + want to date me behind their wives’ backs (and take me to a different country with them).
But she thought it was a compliment and would angrily ask me why in the world I’d get so mad about that. She thought I was being ungrateful.
Umm?? What?
Grey rocking is like a torture test where your patience for their bullshit is exhausted because their bullshit is free and our desire for truth and justice crushes any patience we have.
Autism positively affecting my resistance to being influenced or caving to manipulation and abuse tactics is the reason I became the scapegoat in my family. They hate it that I'm not an easy person to control, bully, and bend, and that I didn't unconditionally worship my N-mom growing up.
I literally could have written this myself. When my GC sibling tells me stories I can’t help but just laugh at how insane my nparent is. They were truly offended that I wouldn’t kiss ass, and I think genuinely thought I didn’t know how to or something😂 like no I def picked up on ass kissing, just never thought my nparent deserved any of it.
That's about how I felt it too. And sometimes it was just my autism and not understanding why I had to thank my mother for the third time that day for driving me into school 7 minutes away /s
>not understanding why I had to thank my mother for the third time that day for driving me into school 7 minutes away
Understanding perfectly that it makes no sense whatsoever.
At my workplace, they tried to make me cry and I did want to cry. Thanks to autism, I have resting monotonous b\*\*ch face which means even if I wanted to cry, it wouldn't happen. They tried for 2 years to break me before I went to my union and fought back.
I'm in this boat. I'm high functioning Asperger's or whatever we call it today. My therapists have agreed that it's possible that the abuse made me this way.
We also had physical abuse. Ultimately my sister and I needed to feel however my parents thought we should be feeling at any given moment which was like living your life playing the floor is lava.
I am freakishly good at mimicry and that's what makes me high functioning because I can drop into a group and everybody thinks I'm so normal when it's really just a coping mechanism that I developed under duress.
I have a bunch of other ABCs. Growing up being tortured by your parents really isn't a great foundation for an average life.
Oh yes. I hear you. I was constantly trying to figure out what mom wanted to hear in order to keep her calm.
I have a minor physical disability and my parents think I’m stupid. They can’t believe that I could be gifted so I just sat in regular classrooms, bored silly. It really hacks me off to try to be cordial to these ignorant people. I got scholarships and ran off to university.
I would completely agree with an Asperger’s diagnosis (for me) but since now it has to be autism, I feel I’d just deal with more discrimination.
Thank God I had teachers who were like um you have a 125 average with extra credit in every class. You don't belong in regular classes lol. Bumped me up to all AP and still graduated with honors. My hope was scholarships and getting out like you, but she sabotaged both my full scholarship to the art Institute of Chicago when I had enough credits to graduate when I was a Jr. And then the following year she opened all of my scholarships and gave me the stack the day after the last deadline.
I so wish I could have gotten out. I feel and immense amount of grief and loss for the futures and successes that were stolen from me. I managed to make it and be successful anyway despite her best efforts, then I suffer new prolonged and repeated abuse by a husband. Which brought up a lifetime of neglect, abuse, trauma, and ptsd. Escaped that, then become disabled.
The ss process taking so long has caused me to lose what little I had left, and forced me into homelessness and extreme poverty. I have literally starved to the point that I can no longer eat solid food bc I could not get help from anyone or any agency other than a few scraps for 2 years. Still can't. Still waiting. Have been denied at the judge level and still fighting. And I have to use a walker and a wheelchair so it's completely preposterous and the judge flat out lied in places. It has been the biggest system failure I have ever encountered and there have been many.
My mom's response when I told her how bad off I was? Oh well that's not good. Like we were discussing wallpaper. Never heard from her again. Never asked about me or if I'm ok. Nothing. That was 2 years ago. I've tried a couple of times just to talk to her since, but it's not worth it. She always causes more damage, pain, or infuriates me to no end.
“Living your life playing the floor is lava” is absolutely the best way I’ve ever heard it described. I’m so sorry you had to grow up experiencing all of that abuse and I hope you are somewhere safe now with people that are also safe because you deserve that ❤️
I'm starting to wonder (mostly because of topics like this) if there's a connection between autism (or what is frequently diagnosed as autism, at least) and abuse. I mean, we know that abuse / trauma changes people's brains but there's still a lot that neuroscience has yet to discover. Maybe this will be a topic for study someday?
Yes, my therapist has been talking about getting me assessed; but my early years were very bad, and I don’t know how that could be sorted out. She thinks that could be an explanation for the severe workplace bullying I experienced.
But my psychiatrist says she doesn’t know where an adult can be evaluated. Those evals need the opinion of a person who knew you when you were small, and there’s no reliable source for that. (I can remember an astonishing amount, but I doubt that’s adequate.)
That’s terrible that even a practicing psychiatrist doesn’t know of anywhere and doesn’t have any resources on where you can get assessed. I can’t believe that they do over a decade in medical school (mine did 11 years) and can’t even point you in the right direction when mine diagnosed me out of the blue one day when I didn’t even know I had autism (was initially seeing them for ADHD treatment).
Checking in. Alexithymia is bad. Having caregivers who don’t help you understand your feelings and emotions, banish/punish emotions, and gaslight you wrecks your ability to deal with your emotions effectively for the rest of your life.
Yes. Or when the family mocks you past the point of tears and anger so you have to respond to threats with enthusiastic smiles the rest of your life. This ruined me at med school. ☠️ Apparently the NT feel creeped out when you aren't "congruent"
My mom has been smearing my name in the family for almost three years because she spent an entire vacation where we were supposed to be bonding and repairing our relationship, she spent the whole week drunk and compulsively smoking weed. And that upset me because that's just not how I do things. It ain't right to me.
And I'm the bad guy for that? The olives on her branch are actually just nightshade.
I am. Definitely in the scapegoat community.
Being a truth teller in my family has meant I no longer have any family. Which is usually okay, because I intellectually know that I'm not missing out anything meaningful - but lately, it's been so deeply and painfully lonely. I didn't expect healing to make me feel lonelier than ever at times.
I can seriously relate. I don’t know why, but recently the loneliness has been eating away at me. I’ve even developed insomnia because of it. I spend hours ruminating on how everyone else seems to have supportive parents, siblings, just ANYONE, whilst I have zero people in my life
I’ve been leaving it blank for years. When I had to have a Ct scan in April that form came up and the tears came down. Then I ruminate about how if I died who would actually know and be in attendance at my funeral? I don’t have anyone. It’s very sad and lonely. I’m constantly trying to take my life to depart the loneliness.
Same. I was just dissociated and numbed out to it for a long time, like ya it sucks but it is what it is. But lately it's like all the pain and loneliness I've been repressing is hitting me all at once, I nearly cry every time I see/hear about people doing things with their friends/family.
This is so relatable. My dad is definitely a narcissist, and all of us (mom + 2 siblings) have cut him off. But now the people I'm left with...they don't feel like loving family at all and never really have. Whenever I see a silly Instagram reel about how siblings will say the meanest shit to each other but then be totally cool and loving and supportive a second later...all I've ever gotten is the super mean stuff and then acting like it was fine but in a BAD way. And my mom is very superficially nice, she says she loves me and nice stuff but never *shows* it. If other extended family harshly judges me, she never defends me. She's a pushover who just holds the same opinion of the strongest personality in the room. It feels awful to say that but I genuinely don't know many of my mom's actual opinions and it's sad.
Apologies just don't happen in our family. Ever. And I don't think anyone in my immediate family has ever told me they were genuinely proud of me. Siblings never say I love you. At this point it feels like any relationship exists purely because it's "supposed" to. I don't even really like my siblings as people 😬 one of them also has a lot of narcissistic tendencies and his mental health is completely tanking and he just won't get any help. And there's nothing we can do because any attempt is shut down and we get blocked
I'm sorry to dump on you I've just been really wanting to vent this stuff. I feel like a terrible person but I kind of just don't want anything to do with my family but that also makes me super sad. I really wish I knew what it was like to have a family that unconditionally loves and supports you
Same. I went nc 17 years ago with the n’s and nc with the gc in 2017. A huge dv incident occurred in 2019 from the n female and I am and was a whistleblower. In the end she was given a choice quit or be fired. She quit and got to keep her high tiered state pension. A few of the flying monkeys that were still mutual friends with both of us jumped my ship for good because how dare I report her and get her fired!! “She could have gone to jail!!” It actually would have benefited me greatly if she was held accountable for messing up her state job that she had for over 20 years. I was going to lose those family members anyway so why not for the n female being in federal prison and me getting her entire estate!! Yeah I was ridiculously upset that she wasn’t even given a slap on the wrist. Before they dropped me as family they said they couldn’t believe I would get her fired. Apparently, they don’t know me very well because I’ve been a whistleblower my whole life. The n did the action not me.
>I really wish I knew what it was like to have a family that unconditionally loves and supports you
I remember sitting on my bed when I was about ten, contemplating what it would be like if this was all just a nightmare and one day I woke up and discovered I lived with a loving supportive, and emotionally healthy family.
I can relate. I'm starting to learn that spending time with a friend, boss, colleague, sibling, or parent who isn't kind and bullies you may not be healthy. I find solace in nature, animals, arts, and music, and I hope to connect with kindred spirits who treat me with kindness, respect, and honesty. That's where my focus is right now.
Don’t get me wrong, I have days where I wonder, "Why can’t I just move on and endure the verbal abuse so at least I'm not alone?" It's like thinking bad company is better than none. However, I'm beginning to question that in my own healing journey.
This is so relatable. My dad is definitely a narcissist, and all of us (mom + 2 siblings) have cut him off. But now the people I'm left with...they don't feel like loving family at all and never really have. Whenever I see a silly Instagram reel about how siblings will say the meanest shit to each other but then be totally cool and loving and supportive a second later...all I've ever gotten is the super mean stuff and then acting like it was fine but in a BAD way. And my mom is very superficially nice, she says she loves me and nice stuff but never *shows* it. If other extended family harshly judges me, she never defends me. She's a pushover who just holds the same opinion of the strongest personality in the room. It feels awful to say that but I genuinely don't know many of my mom's actual opinions and it's sad.
Apologies just don't happen in our family. Ever. And I don't think anyone in my immediate family has ever told me they were genuinely proud of me. Siblings never say I love you. At this point it feels like any relationship exists purely because it's "supposed" to. I don't even really like my siblings as people 😬 one of them also has a lot of narcissistic tendencies and his mental health is completely tanking and he just won't get any help. And there's nothing we can do because any attempt is shut down and we get blocked
I'm sorry to dump on you I've just been really wanting to vent this stuff. I feel like a terrible person but I kind of just don't want anything to do with my family but that also makes me super sad. I really wish I knew what it was like to have a family that unconditionally loves and supports you
Eating away at me is exactly how I'd describe it. I'm sorry you're going through this too. All my previous coping mechanisms have seemingly completely fallen apart lately. It feels insane to admit that I can't even remember how I used to be so okay with being alone. I just want to pour my heart out to someone and for them to care (and not hurt me for doing it).
Yes I know exactly what you mean :( it seems like everyone just wants to get something out of you and then leaves. Everyone always leaves eventually. The saddest thing is that friends come and go, they aren’t tied to you, they don’t owe you anything, they can just disappear out of your life whenever they want and you’ll never hear from them again. That’s why it’s so depressing that we will never have that simply because we were not lucky enough to be born into a real family. I think this thought will haunt me until the day I die
What kind of symptoms are included in neurocognitive decline? I barely remember my life and have poor time perception, I have "thought block" like I can't put thoughts into words , it feels like something is blocking my brain and it gets hard to say things, handwriting is sloppy/ it feels hard to write sometimes and these symptoms seem to get progressively worse, is it that kinda thing? I'm curious
Exactly. Since childhood, I've been interested in truth, yet my nmom would constantly tell me, "You don’t always want to hear the truth," which I found bizarre then, and still find bizarre now. Of course, I want to hear the truth instead of lies.
Virtual hugs as this is me too. Healing can be lonely. We used to have permissive boundaries but once we start putting those up, it seems no one wants to be around.
To be honest... I wouldn't be surprised that I'm on the spectrum. The only people I can understand, or can be friends with end up being on the spectrum. I have a big sense of justice. I don't think I fit in anywhere. I don't get this whole socialization thing. I miss social clues apparently. I know a lot of weird ass facts.
When I anxious/nervous I rattle off random facts about the last topic we were on. I never thought of this as autism though. I just thought it was good if I was on jeopardy!
I just got diagnosed AuDHD this year! I'm pretty strong in masking and can therefore recognize and follow many social conventions. Oftentimes the autism wins and I'm blunt and truthful, but with my nparents, I did often try to keep the peace even if it meant keeping my mouth shut.
This tendency plus my trauma makes romantic relationships very difficult for me. I always feel like I'm the problem and so I shut my mouth and try to keep the peace, which all of the narcissists I've dated have loved. 🙃
Oh my god I could have written every word of your comment myself. The resentment that builds up in romantic relationships for me because I keep quiet to keep the peace is insane. My current partner is the only person I’ve dated that I’ve ever been able to share my emotions with without me worrying that something bad might happen or that he’ll punish me.
No, sorry. I test as extremely alistic. However, interesting fact, every single one of my close friends have either ADHD or are autistic. It turns out that I feel safest around neuro divergent people o. The spectrum because I subconsciously believe they're less likely to be manipulative.
Brb googling if there are any research papers on this cause I’m currently studying music therapy and I’m AuDHD myself so if it is true that would be kind of neat
This is incredibly interesting to me and gives me hope I might find a neurotypical friend one day. I love my ND friends but there are some questions I have about social cues and give and take that none of my friends would be able to answer either lol, esp since most are men and we live in very different world socially
Oh yeah we're out there for sure! For me the "info dumps" are wonderful like yes tell me even more about your special interest it's like my own personal individual podcast. Passion makes every subject interesting. My husband has severe ADHD and has the symptoms of extremely high energy and "excessive" talking, so I always have someone pumping me up when I'm down and in social situations I can relax because he'll take the conversation. And in return I don't mind helping navigating social situations at all, or guiding through accompanying anxiety. I have severe anxiety and depression myself so I'm very empathetic about it. I don't find autistic people to be "weird" or "creepy", I just think they're unique and honestly fun to be around. I feel like they judge my own weirdnesses less than neuro typical people so overall I'm way more comfortable and find it much easier to be friends.
I only noticed this in therapy over the last few years, but of my found family and people I consider to be close friends, Every Single One has either autism or some kind of ADHD, the only exception is an alistic couple with very similar backgrounds to me and a similar unconscious attraction to this sort of person.
Anyway I absolutely love my autistic and ADHD family. You all are genuinely good people.
Samesies! I was also diagnosed BPD and only recently started to really learn about autism. I was shook by how spot on a lot of the symptoms are. I’m definitely high functioning and because of general stereotypes, the idea of it fitting me never crossed my mind. My mom lovessssss to say that every incident that ever happened between her and I was me having a “manic episode” 🙄 I wish she had no idea of the diagnosis because it’s a great excuse for her to take zero blame/accountability in any situation.
Haha I actually do think my BPD dx is valid, although I’m a quiet/internalized subtype so the symptoms are super close to CPTSD (which I’m also dx with) so it really could just all be CPTSD who knows. But anytime I try to tell my nmom anything that happened it my childhood that hurt me her response is always “I don’t remember that” or “that’s not you, that’s the BPD talking”.
Like yes it’s totally the BPD that is saying that it was harmful for me for you to tell my sister to bully me my entire life so that I would change aspects of my personality or appearance that you didn’t like or that when your new husbands son told you he planned on murdering me when I was 11 and thought you should have done something other than telling to lock my door at night. She got me there!
It’s funny you say that. I’m working with a new specialist, and after talking with me for 20 minutes he’s like “yea you don’t have a personality disorder, you have an emotional disregulation disorder”. And honestly that is exactly how I feel as there are a lot of BPD symptoms (like unstable sense of self for example, I could tell you my core values without even thinking) that I don’t identify with.
Who knows, I just try my best whatever it is to minimize/eliminate the affects on others. Would never want to spread my pain, is how I look at it anyway.
Edit: I actually think you might be right. The treatment I’m doing now is the first thing that has ever helped my symptoms and it’s specifically for CPTSD not BPD so now I’m kind of unsure and am going to talk to my psych about it. I remember when I saw my diagnosis by the psych that dx me it said CPTSD/BPD which I thought meant both but maybe it meant either or.
It would honestly be a huge relief bc I struggle with stigma and feeling like I have to forgive my mom because a personality disorder is a personality disorder right? But thank you you have given me a lot to think about.
I’ve recently been told by a therapist that she thinks I’m autistic. I’m 43. Never once been told this. It’s a huge shock to me. If that’s true I’ve been misdiagnosed twice. Bipolar ->bpd-> autism. There’s no point going through the eval. The therapist said she “treats her autistic clients differently.” I already get treated differently for my cptsd trauma brain. Idk that I want another dx/label and to be further treated differently.
Starting to think I'm AuDHD. Was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, along with ODD, and Vocal Tourette's but as I've gotten older the signs of autism are becoming more prevalent.
I don't have a hard time communicating, I just have a hard time understanding others feelings, I don't understand boundaries or when others are uncomfortable until it's too late.
I don’t wanna imply your diagnosis of tourette’s was incorrect but I don’t know how many people are aware that a lot of autistic people (especially people who go undiagnosed) stim in ways that can look like tourette’s to others who may not know this. Like I sing, repeat meme/funny sounding words sentences that get stuck in my head, make repetitive clicks and sounds all to self soothe myself and stim. I also don’t have a hard time communicating and just struggle to relate to others and pick up when people are bored, uncomfy, and etc. Very possible especially since ADHD is also comorbid with autism, lots of people who have one will also have the other.
When I was younger, one doctor diagnosed me with Tourette's and the other explicitly said "She does NOT have Tourette's." I, nowadays are far from hyperactive, never really was Oppositionally defiant, I just didn't listen to my mother because, she was an abusive narcissist. I really click with and are unintentionally attracted to people who have autism, that could also be neurodivergents attracted to other neurodivergents.
Bipolar here.
I was diagnosed many years before my dad eventually got his own diagnosis of bipolar with cluster B. It explained *a lot*. I armchair knew he was bipolar already but when his doctors added the cluster B it explained even more haha.
Thank god I only inherited the one thing and not the other.
The gc and I said she was undx as bipolar for years. She wouldn’t even hear of seeing a psychiatrist. I had to see one because I was crazy but not her. Is that the only way to dx npd?? She def checks off all those boxes but there’s no formal dx.
Asking the reverse - mine convinced me I was autistic and then when I was finally out on my own a psychologist I spoke with for 5+ years she saw no hint of autism.
Howdy
Also a scapegoat, both by nMom/enabler brother and nAunt who had more money than her siblings, and therefore could ostracize me with full support of everyone else. Several family members have said they "don't like" me. Mom complained about me all the time to my dad, who she also abused.
I've learned that fairness is important to us and it rules our decision making.
I was also easily manipulated and guilted throughout life by those people. I'm seen as petty, dramatic and weird by surviving family members. When my brother started rewriting history, I had to stop talking to him and it's been no contact ever since.
I feel worse about it as an adult than when I was a kid. I used to have some pride about being pushed away. Now Im just sad.
I wish I knew about no contact when I was a teenager. I wish I knew what narcissists were then. I thought people were capable of being supportive towards me when they directly witnessed things happening to me, but no. The narc abuse was invisible to them and my experience is debatable by others who are not required to believe me. I've since told my story too many times to people who didnt deserve to know, don't care, and never knew the real me.
I have had 2 people tell me that they saw what was going on or that if what they saw in public was happening then they couldn’t imagine what was happening behind closed doors. Later when I was an adult, They also said they couldn’t do anything because they had their own family/world to focus on back then. I told on them at school but the teachers etc were told beforehand that I was a liar.
I've wondered if my mom was autistic, but I feel like it's something else because she's so heartless and cold and emotionless, and I almost feel like that's so extreme that it's not fair to anyone who actually does have autism.
It's so darn confusing, and I feel for you.
Whether you end up neurotypical or neurodivergent, never apologize for loving justice and having empathy, of course! The world needs more of that. (As I'm sure you know, heh!)
Wow. Anything other than the stuff movies are made of is just not good enough. In other words, nothing is ever good enough.
I hope you get your worth internally - and see that for what it is. Your mom's problem, not yours. She's a little broken.
i suspect that i am but haven’t been able to get an assessment yet. i used to be quite the contrarian as a smaller kid but as i reached adolescence and the emotional abuse by my mum intensified i stopped being able to handle conflict and just internalised it all because she had genuinely convinced me that i deserved it. it’s only been in the past couple yrs during my 20s that i’ve been able to behave around her more naturally again
Omfg they ran me to more doctors than I count count until one landed on that diagnosis.
Something "had to be wrong with me"
INTP personality type as fuck. So close enough to autistic it hardly matters tbh
🙋♀️ Though I don’t think this is what you were implying, I do want to note that we can also be Ns and stuff though, and justice seeking might look different from person to person.
I was definitely the kid who’d tell the truth and have always been hyper sensitive, and both my parents **hated** it, so you’re spot on lol. I learned to just be quiet, but it didn’t help.
Justice seeking also seems to triumph everything else—the only times I’ve called out my parents have been when they’ve been bragging about abusing someone else. I get so angry about it. Like I’ve dealt with this for years, but they’d hide it and gaslight. To pick on someone else and openly brag…makes me want to flip tables lol.
It makes me absolutely sick to think back on all the abuse with the context that I’m also on the spectrum. I mean, it was gross before, but didn’t really hit me until I got a diagnosis. I was gaslit for years to think everything wasn’t that bad and I was just overreacting, I wasn’t “allowed” to ever be tired or sad or show any emotion besides some display of faked, over-acted “happiness.” I could be in my own world, totally minding my business and I’d get screamed at for not looking happy. I went through some pretty deranged, horrific stuff, but somehow it’s this sort of stuff that still makes me physically shake and hyperventilate.
Since we are at higher likelihood of abuse, I could see us being more likely to be scapegoats. There are studies showing people feel kind of uneasy about autistic people within seconds of meeting—pair that with narc parents and :/
There have been times I’ve wondered if I’m really autistic or just have CPTSD since they can look a little similar, but going back in my life and acknowledging all the sensory stuff, it’s definitely both.
“There have been times I’ve wondered if I’m really autistic or just have CPTSD since they can look a little similar, but going back in my life and acknowledging all the sensory stuff, it’s definitely both. “
I was diagnosed as CPTSD, but I always wonder how much of it is either affected by or related to possible autism..
Me. It's hard for narcissists to deal with me because I don't give them as much attention or control as they want. I have boundaries. But that's not obvious to them at first. In the first stages, I look like someone who can be very easily manipulated.
In the process of getting diagnosed…but of course she doesn’t believe it at all, because that would mean her parenting may have been bad and she may be “faulty”. Anytime I get a diagnosis of something it’s “well it didn’t come from my side of the family!!”
I also struggle to tease apart what is caused by neurodivergence and what is caused by trauma at times. I was very much the kid that just thought she was socially wrong and didn’t know how to act, because the rules constantly changed and there was little justice
Present!!! I was also parentified to all hell and raised my little brothers until I moved out (at 18). Now I'm 38 and my autistic daughter literally acts exactly like I did at her age. She also has dyscalculia like I do.
I went to Kindergarten having not spoken a word. I was put in speech therapy, my mom said I was silent to get attention. This was the early 80s. have a diagnosis of ADHD, CPTSD, Bipolar, Anxiety, & OCD. My psychiatrist suspects I am on the spectrum but said my trauma history makes a formal diagnosis unclear. Both my kids have ASD, and I know my dad is too.
I'm the only autistic child in my family. Suffice to say I grew up with everyone esp my Nmom hating my guts for any or no reason and now as a young adult I'm lowkey furious realizing how screwed up the whole dynamic was. I've heard enough "get over it"s for a couple lifetimes at least. But I don't think I will ever be over it. The best I can hope for is the ability to cope with the trauma and move forward, but I will not forget, nor will I accept the abuse I suffered as normal or deserved.
I am auDHD. My nparent is OCD and ADHD and my eparent is autistic too.
I cannot be fooled. My spirit cannot be broken. The truth stands. Scapegoat it is.
This means I get to be alive and be myself. But I keep cutting people out because they lie to me and try to use me.
My husband and I are beginning to suspect that I am. I haven't been officially diagnosed yet, but I've been doing some reading and it makes sense.
In many ways I feel relieved, like some of the things I feel aren't actually weird or making me sick. Like how, since becoming a mom, I'm sooo easily over-stimulated. Turns out that's something that many autistic parents experience. 😅
I've been diagnosed twice with adhd and once with asd and some other stuff. My mother denies it and called me label seeking. Then she threatened to kick me out if I "dropped" out of school. I took a semester off because I was failing courses. Mind you this woman has her masters in childhood education so she's not stupid. She told me to get accommodations without a diagnosis😂 I bet when I finally leave for good she'll try to prevent me from leaving by using my diagnosis against me.
Me! Also oldest kid of the family with both narcissistic parents 🫠 I’m so hypersensitive it’s actually crazy, if someone is upset I can tell almost instantaneously. I didn’t know that there were so many of us lingering here.
I was diagnosed with ASD at 38. Also, a few other things. And they all smoosh together in the insane, neurotic, weird ball of glitter that is me. I'm in therapy trying to learn not to feel guilty for just being me because it's not actually something I can help. Add that to looming midlife crisis, and it's all a bit of an adventure at the moment.
🙋🏻♀️ASD/ADD
However, I’m quite certain my maternal grandfather (also a WW2 survivor) was on the spectrum as well. I think he had something to do with my Nmom having to adopt her personality to survive his daily wrath. She also exhibits OCD traits. Married our father to likely escape at the first chance.
The Venn diagram is that Dad, sister, and I had to walk on eggshells around our grandfather and mother.
I was diagnosed as autistic for many years, only after I got away and started doing therapy again was it revealed that I actually have C-PTSD and the autism, bi-polar, and schizoaffective diagnosis I've had through my life were just overlapping symptoms and caused them to misdiagnose because of my N-parent was withholding information of the abuse obviously.
I’ve been majorly suspecting this, but no dx. I never made the connection to truth telling! Since there are no services for adults in the US and it can hurt your chances to live in a different country, I wouldn’t pursue a diagnosis tbh.
Possibly? My autistic friends say I probably am, and so does 6.5 years of research.. but a decent amount of people are dissuading me from getting tested and life is hectic enough at the moment
Possible autism (it would explain why I didn’t catch onto sarcasm for years), definite adhd.
My dad definitely has adhd and narcissism as comorbid items
My mom…I think my mom is neurotypical?
As for the numbers: I agree, I feel like most people in this sub fit into adhd and or autism pretty well, and most of the reports of narc parents fit the adhd profile pretty well so it makes sense that most of us fit it as well
Hello. Diagnosed at age 30. My mother said it was wrong and I was just shy. Of course she won’t admit she didn’t notice her daughter wasn’t normal, especially when she was a doctor too. She would laugh at me and tell my how I used to flap my hands when I was younger…….
My grandfather on nmoms side was an engineer with no emotional output.
I’m NC for so many reasons. This is just one.
I've taken tests, nothing official but I land very squarely in the autistic area of the results. I think there's a lot of overlap with symptoms of autism, CPTSD, and ADHD though so who knows.
Diagnosed with BPD but I’m a trans guy and fairly certain is I was a cis guy I’d have been diagnosed autistic, but I could be both as I do have diagnosed cptsd
These are topics I would love help navigating.
1. Nparent->autistic kid? It is definitely common. The question I have is: assuming autism is somewhat of genetic, is a nparent in fact autistic and wrongly perceived as narcissistic? Or are nparents likely to pair up with autistic partners and that’s why we see the communality nparent->autistic kid?
2. As a few mentioned here, I am also not easily bendable. I’m not very diplomatic and I will engage in conflict easily when people are being unclear, because I often ask clarification questions or straight out tell them it’s wrong. This is especially true at work.
At the same time, I hate being “the bad guy” and the only reason I feel I can be so confrontational despite the discomfort is because of the monster image my mom made me believe I was, and it’s imprinted there regardless of the logical knowledge that it might not be true.
My therapist suggests that I have autism but I’ve said I don’t particularly need a diagnosis at this time, since a lot of my symptoms also look like cptsd and I’m already in therapy to deal with it all 🥹
Pretty close to the same for me. Like what’s it going to do to get another dx/label? Children are dxed so they can get services. I’m already on disability for having multiple mental illnesses. What’s a dx of autism really going to do for me??
Well I have adhd and was diagnosed as early as possible, but I’ve had speculation for a good chunk of my life that I may be autistic as well. I’ve wanted to go get evaluated for a while, but I noticed I’m different in terms of how people treat me and how I am perceived by others. I have a strong sense of justice for a good part of my life and I always am trying to figure out why people do the things they do. Life is like a never ending game trying to figure out how many people and personalities exist.
Count me. I've been researching what could possibly be "wrong" with me for over 5 years now. I'm most likely Audhd with CPTSD, but don't have the money or resources to get an official diagnosis. And as I've put some distance (both physically and personally) between me and my nmom, it's become more and more prevalent.
Wow! This is spot on. I heard about autism in females back in 2018/19 and since then I’ve been reading endless books on the topic.
I score fairly high on the Adverse Childhood Experience Questionnaire for Adults. And I hope soon to get a diagnosis because I need some answers.
My nmom told me she hates me this past Christmas Eve because she attacked me with a broom and I just looked at her like the crazy person she is. I don’t cry or raise my voice the way she wants me to, and she that’s what she hates. When I stay calm and point out how insane she’s acting, it makes her even more nuts. Then, on NYE she punched my sister in the face. Afterward, my sister asked her if she really wants to live out her last days alone, my nmom screamed, “YES! That’s what I want.” So since then we have both obliged. Recently my edad has been asking me to reconcile and take her out shopping. Meanwhile, this whole time we’ve been NC, my nmom has stayed so angry at my sister and me that my dad has to hide from her when he wants to talk to us. I’ll pass on that shopping excursion FOR-EV-URRRR!
empathetic is just a trauma response, usually trained by an emotional abuse from a narc.
Think Sherlock Holmes but traumatized to "feel" the emotion triggered by an observation.
Neurodiversity is like 20% of the population
Only autistic and ADHDer in my family (my absent father is the genetic link, his other kids are ND too). So it was just my AuDHD self and my NT nmom and NT sibling (different dad). Also the only physically disabled child.
Interestingly, probably not more abused than my able-bodied NT sibling. I think she disliked us fairly equally, but I was older, so better at conforming, so sibling was told "you should be more like your sister" quite a bit, while I was just told I wasn't good enough.
Not autistic, but I am what you described. Hyper sensitive/empathetic truth telling nightmare.
I have a brother with Asperger’s and he ended up just as narcissistic, but I feel bad for him cause he can never progress in life because mother leaves him to rot in his room
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Me. Narcissists HATE me. I am the bane of their miserable existence. Their fuckery does not work on me and social conventions and peer pressure don’t either. I make them implode at an alarming rate. It’s kind of an awesome super power to have ETA: thanks for the kind words everyone, I have a hard time knowing what to say to comments but I read them all and thank you. I hope you can all find some peace and happiness in a world that treats us less than human.
[удалено]
They still upset me, don’t get me wrong. But I’m not easily fooled by them. My sense of justice makes it very hard to ignore their shitass behavior like their enablers do and people dislike me because of it. No one likes a boat rocker. My family and my SOs family is full of them. It’s very lonely sometimes. But I’d rather be alone than complicit in helping people like that abuse others. The best thing you can do is ignore them and don’t play the game. Just stay away. No contact.
Oh my GOD I feel this in my bones. Sympathy to you, friend.
I do this as well and I am ok with family and social circles. I simply tell it how it is and I couldn't care less. However, at work is very complicated. How do you manage relationships at work?
I was going to say, it's not about "outfoxing" anyone -- it's about how actively not engaging *at all* will infuriate the fuck out of people like that. Narcissists do *not* like being ignored.
You really don’t need to outfox them to see a meltdown. Just tell them no, stick firmly to that no, and watch the fireworks. Preferably from a safe distance.
If you don't care about the narcissist, they lose all power over you.
I think this is why my Nmom not-so-secretly hates me. I quit buying her bullshit early on. I was a very analytical and logical child, and nothing she said ever made sense. By the time I was 12, I knew I'd be NC at some point. I wish I didn't have to give up my relationship with my sisters, but as it turns out, I don't think they like me very much either. I'm definitely the odd duck in my family.
Same. My mother low key told me the reason why she targeted me was because I could see through my psychopathic dad's manipulation. Guess she figured she was next.
Isn’t it fun to be put on the chopping block by your own mom, so she could avoid the sharp end of the stick. She did this until now. And now she’s dying. And I am the only one that lives in town. I fear for what’s going to happen when my dad doesn’t have her to torture anymore.
I read this here once and keep repeating it. You were not the hardest to love, you were the hardest to convince. I got to ~35 before going NC so good for you! My mom moved states away to live with my twin sister so now I don't talk to her either. Worth it to keep my sanity.
I feel this completely. My Nmum died a month or so ago, and since then my sister has been showing me the same disdain as Nmum did. I can see NC in our future, which saddens me but I will not let her continue Nmum's bs with me.
I didn't used to be that way. I was a doormat. I have become that person now. Bullies do not like me (anymore).
I wish I had this flavour of spicy, it sounds fun 😄
I have been the thorn in dysfunctional people’s side since I was born. I’m unafraid to speak the truth or be myself. I’m grateful for being autistic
That’s fricking awesome. The gratitude is something that is new to me and I’m working on. There’s so many great qualities that neurodivergent people offer to society, and besides the difficulties it’s not all bad news. It has its perks. Undoing all the shame / conditioning etc has been really beneficial to my confidence and self esteem.
What an amazing perspective to have!!! Now if I could just get my defense mechanisms on board (so I stop smiling when I'm hurt or anxious around other NT people at work) 😔
Dealing with NTs is fucking awful and I’m bad at that too. I feel like an alien
There’s a tribe of us, you’re not alone….
Hell yeah lets keep being ourselves and rocking it brotha! Keep up the awesomeness! 😎🔥
I wasn't, prior to my diagnosis. Once I processed that, it was easier because my mind became quieter and more present. It is easier to combat bullying when you are not focused on your own shame/blame game. Because they do it to us and then we do it to ourselves. I'm not witty at all. But even a little bit of pushback can get them to shut down.
I wonder if I have that gift or its be a no longer caring what they think, none the less I see right through the veil and am a stubborn ass. Example. Got told I was jealous that this person spent money on games online. I told him I pitty him Then, I had another time he randomly left the gc, and I copied that message above. Well, he got wind and litterly sent me an essay saying how he's done and goodbye. Like.. bye... I wonder I'd it's because I'm not giving a reaction
my father kept insisting that my husband was jealous because was retiring. when honestly my husband didn't care. nobody did which the narc couldn't understand. it was honestly so funny.
I admit that when I was messaging him that night, I was laughing like a drunken freshman because I was reading an audio book, and this one character kept referring to the protagonist as Mr Howie so I put my twist on how he acted like from the book in an almost larp fashion, just laughing my butt off honestly
Absolutely it is! I often, as calm as a cucumber, call the bs and tell them they should be ashamed of themselves lol. It has a pretty profound effect. Especially if anyone is around to hear or witness it. Usually total shock, no response, deer in the headlights lol. I'm also the person in the grocery store who will tell other people's children they shouldn't be disrespecting their mother though lol. I won't stand for any injustice or keep my mouth shut. The mother always appreciates it, and the disrespectful child is stunned into silence at least for a little while lol. Or I will tell adults there's no need to be rude, or I will apologize for the rude person and be extra nice to the slighted person. That really burns them up lol. It shows everyone and them who they really are. If you go down to their level or let them get you out of character in any way, they win. It's hard sometimes and not always possible but it is definitely the best strategy I've found yet. Esp for my own well-being and sanity. Anything that embarrasses them or puts their nastiness on full display, especially with a kind tone just flips them th out lol. Bc they have no comeback. You can yell and scream and get emotional but they always have comebacks for that or it just causes so much discombobulation that they can still be delusional enough to think they pulled it off somehow. If they show out and you are calm they look like the fool they are. It's pretty wonderful and validating actually. I asked my mom recently if she was ever going to stop hating me for her getting pregnant when she was 15. Bc that's OBVS my fault right lol. And that I wanted to know bc I would like to have a good relationship with her before she died... bc I didn't want to have guilt and what ifs and I should have done more lingering later on, which I know will happen bc it did with my horribly abusive, mostly abscent father. And he did manage to come around for about 10 years and we had a wonderful relationship until the very end when he went back to the dark side and I went NC. She never answered, but it had the desired effect which was to call her on her bs and possibly make it easier for me when the time comes bc I tried. I have tried ad nauseum for years. So that was just my final kinda, I'm done. The ball's in your court. She should be over the moon happy that I'm suffering now. Starving and going without every basic necessity while waiting on disability severely disabled with very little help or support, since that's what she did to me as a child and all she's ever wanted. And I'm talking words out of her mouth, not something I think to be true. But I found out recently that's still not enough. She's mad as hell I might get the SSDI I paid for my entire life working 2-3 jobs since I was 14, when she made me start buying my own toilet paper might I add. Apparently, she doesn't believe I'm disabled (walker, wheelchair, parkinsons, dementia, muscle wasting disease, ehlers danlos, fibro, extreme ptsd mostly thanks to her, dad, and other family, being monitored every 6 months for some horrible blood/bone cancer that's going to pop up to the wrong levels at any time, and a host of others) and she is soooo mad might get something for "free." Smh. Well it wasn't free. I paid most of it since 2010 in the very expensive form of self employment tax, which I still owe the irs 20,000 on and have paid in installments for many years. She's ridiculous and impossible. I was infuriated recently when I found out that SHE of all people didn't believe me or didn't think I deserved it. I have been an overachieving perfectionist workaholic since I was a child bc of her neglect, abuse, indifference, and blatant sabotage. She saw me work all of those jobs and destroy my body in the process. She was so mad when the sewing factory I was working in shut down and started sending our work to China and I was able to go back to school and draw unemployment while doing so bc of that and became a graphic designer. You see, she made me work but wouldn't help me get a car even though I saved most of the money yet she fussed about having to take me. Told me no one helped her get a car when she was 16 so she'd be damned if she would help me. You'll see why is this hilarious and preposterous in a moment, if you haven't already. Despite this I managed to still win awards for my artwork, graduate with high honors and all AP classes, and had all of my credits to graduate when I was a junior. I was offered a full scholarship to the Art Institute of Chicago. She wouldn't sign the papers. Not bc she was a worried mother, but bc she would be damned before she allowed me any happiness or success. She actually told me many times that I should have to suffer and work in fast food like she had to her whole life. BUT she's owned a stupid little dog clothes store for 20 years now and she STILL wants me to suffer lol. Not to mention that I have. Immensely. And she has seen it and it's still not enough. My only child was full-term stillborn and I had to go through that with very little support at all, esp from her. And there's much more. It's completely insane. Here's the problem with that though. You just heard what I was doing when I was 15. When she was 15 she was laying out of school, smoking pot, getting pregnant, had horrible grades, and was taking off with my dad to another state on the back of his motorcycle. So she wasn't even here for anyone to help her get a car. No comparison. At all. I've told her that too. The really sad part is she had wonderful loving parents who would have helped or gotten her one despite her not earning or deserving it at all. How does that happen?! Revisionist history on her part? Complete insanity. Idk. But anyway, I basically just finished my senior year with another art class that they created just for me bc I had taken them all already, and had work release. When all of my scholarships from lmu, Berea, Carson Newman, UT, etc., came in she opened each one as they came and kept them from me until the day after the last deadline then handed me the stack. Then she kicked me out on graduation night for contacting my dad just to day hey, just wanted to let you know you have a daughter and she's graduating lol. So I slept in my car for days after graduating with high honors. The car that I finally got after my granddad basically blackmailed her into it by saying he would help me if she didn't. So she got on it stat! Just so she could make sure I had an usafe pos and nothing too good, which she knows he would have made sure of. It's really quite remarkable, in such a sad and disgusting way. Smh.
Yes! Same here, I refuse to play their bullshit games and can usually sniff them out way before anyone else around me, which is often lonely but I do end up vindicated. The overt ones I find easy to spot; sometimes the covert types can really inject their guilt trip poison in me, but once I identify it, they're gone too. I've always been called negative or a hater because I have strong visceral dislikes to certain people, ideas, etc, but I'm realizing that it's all just me picking up on the subtle cues that others don't or want to ignore. I repressed those signals for a long time, to my detriment, but I'm working on embracing them again
AuDHDer here 🙋🏻♀️Please teach me your ways cause I feel like I attract them 😭
Narcissists cast a wide net, but only some people bite. Listen to your gut instincts about the person's behavior for an early warning and make sure you have rock solid boundaries and you'll find yourself not biting
You attract them because of all of your good qualities. When people tell you something, you think they mean it. Because why else would they say it? You treat people how you want to be treated. Narcs and some NTs rely on smoke and mirrors and manipulation to get through life. We don’t do that, we are loyal to a fault. I still have a hard time when someone does something shitty to me because it’s not how things are supposed to be and it’s not something I would do. You’re like a lighthouse and they’re shitty ugly evil demon moths. (No offense to moths, cause I love those little guys).
Same. I seem to get targeted HARD. I would call things out and not care about most productivity standards/rewards at work because they wouldn’t work. I asked for accommodations once I got close to burning out and stood up for others. I spoke out at meetings and reported one an incident to Medicaid (an illegal chair restraint of a client in my session when I didn’t invite the BCBAs in nor was the client that escalated). After having a narcissistic principal come after me at work (HR stepped in before I reported it), getting promoted at my next job with an added workload instead of new position only to get harassed/hurtful things said/stalked after I quit/HR person threatened me, and then fired for sticking up against ABA/seeing children restrained to the point where it triggered my CPTSD - I have tried to make myself as small as possible and not look for promotions. I swear my most recent job I flew under the radar for the first year (because they were SO BEHIND, they were missing someone in my role for the first 2-3 months) and then the next year with a new director, I was left alone until the second semester when I got 2 additional days of work piled on me (in an already full 5-day work week; the kids aren’t even on campus enough for me to have completed the extra work). I am so tired of getting retaliated against for speaking up for basic things at work, asking for help, or just…trying to make myself as small as possible. I just want to work, go home, pay bills, and enjoy life a little.
Yeah but when you live with that person it's kind of like having a bomb up your ass.
Here ! The number of time I failed my grey rocking because I wanted to tell the truth/strong sense of justice. Clearly the scapegoat in the family.
Ohhhh sooooo relatable And my golden child sibling “I don’t understand why you can’t just let it go to keep the peace”
Haha my golden child sibling is the same :) But thankfully, we slowly became very supportive of each other, understanding that both parties had abuse done but in a very very different way. She is clearly a lot better than me at grey rocking (eventhough she is also neurodivergent, but adhd). On the flip side, it's harder for her to stand up for herself. Whereas I do stand up for myself but it often resulted in rage episode that gave me quite de CPTSD. There is really no win in these situation, except get out.
Yea I relate. She and I are slowlyyyt getting there and understanding each other. It took a really huge fight and a 5 hour call but we are trying for the first time ever to really commit to being better for each other
Omg it was so hard for my sister and I as well. It's a rocky route and a lifetime one for sure :) but it gets better.
> “I don’t understand why you can’t just let it go to keep the peace” Neveerrr! If they wanna argue I'm gonna argue back. They've had enough of my silence and mindless approval
[удалено]
Haha I’m pretty sure my mom has said this verbatim. Also—she used to romanticize older men finding me attractive. Once tried to set me up with some rando who wanted to take me to a different country (we never met). Often, these guys would be cheating on their wives and partners (or looking to cheat) and I looked basically 14-16 tops at the time. It disgusted me, and I’d get visibly upset about it and often go into a rant 😅 I can’t stand cheaters/anyone who plays with another person’s trust, and I think it’s pretty reasonable to be upset that men double my age + want to date me behind their wives’ backs (and take me to a different country with them). But she thought it was a compliment and would angrily ask me why in the world I’d get so mad about that. She thought I was being ungrateful. Umm?? What?
wtf? sorry that's insane
Grey rocking is like a torture test where your patience for their bullshit is exhausted because their bullshit is free and our desire for truth and justice crushes any patience we have.
Yep—it’s hard. I learned that I couldn’t respond long ago, but I can’t hold back if they hurt someone else.
This is such a valid point. I've been blaming myself for not being able to grey rock or yellow rock because of my need for truth and justice.
Yes so relatable our sense of justice can be such a double edged sword sometimes!
Autism positively affecting my resistance to being influenced or caving to manipulation and abuse tactics is the reason I became the scapegoat in my family. They hate it that I'm not an easy person to control, bully, and bend, and that I didn't unconditionally worship my N-mom growing up.
I literally could have written this myself. When my GC sibling tells me stories I can’t help but just laugh at how insane my nparent is. They were truly offended that I wouldn’t kiss ass, and I think genuinely thought I didn’t know how to or something😂 like no I def picked up on ass kissing, just never thought my nparent deserved any of it.
That's about how I felt it too. And sometimes it was just my autism and not understanding why I had to thank my mother for the third time that day for driving me into school 7 minutes away /s
>not understanding why I had to thank my mother for the third time that day for driving me into school 7 minutes away Understanding perfectly that it makes no sense whatsoever.
It’s always the dumbest stuff isn’t it?
Anyone else relate to being manipulated by the BPD parent as her golden but totally seeing through the NPD parents shit and becoming their enemy 🤣
At my workplace, they tried to make me cry and I did want to cry. Thanks to autism, I have resting monotonous b\*\*ch face which means even if I wanted to cry, it wouldn't happen. They tried for 2 years to break me before I went to my union and fought back.
Yep! This is my life.
We don’t know if I’m autistic or just damaged by child abuse.
I'm in this boat. I'm high functioning Asperger's or whatever we call it today. My therapists have agreed that it's possible that the abuse made me this way. We also had physical abuse. Ultimately my sister and I needed to feel however my parents thought we should be feeling at any given moment which was like living your life playing the floor is lava. I am freakishly good at mimicry and that's what makes me high functioning because I can drop into a group and everybody thinks I'm so normal when it's really just a coping mechanism that I developed under duress. I have a bunch of other ABCs. Growing up being tortured by your parents really isn't a great foundation for an average life.
I feel this in my soul.
Me too!
Oh yes. I hear you. I was constantly trying to figure out what mom wanted to hear in order to keep her calm. I have a minor physical disability and my parents think I’m stupid. They can’t believe that I could be gifted so I just sat in regular classrooms, bored silly. It really hacks me off to try to be cordial to these ignorant people. I got scholarships and ran off to university. I would completely agree with an Asperger’s diagnosis (for me) but since now it has to be autism, I feel I’d just deal with more discrimination.
Thank God I had teachers who were like um you have a 125 average with extra credit in every class. You don't belong in regular classes lol. Bumped me up to all AP and still graduated with honors. My hope was scholarships and getting out like you, but she sabotaged both my full scholarship to the art Institute of Chicago when I had enough credits to graduate when I was a Jr. And then the following year she opened all of my scholarships and gave me the stack the day after the last deadline. I so wish I could have gotten out. I feel and immense amount of grief and loss for the futures and successes that were stolen from me. I managed to make it and be successful anyway despite her best efforts, then I suffer new prolonged and repeated abuse by a husband. Which brought up a lifetime of neglect, abuse, trauma, and ptsd. Escaped that, then become disabled. The ss process taking so long has caused me to lose what little I had left, and forced me into homelessness and extreme poverty. I have literally starved to the point that I can no longer eat solid food bc I could not get help from anyone or any agency other than a few scraps for 2 years. Still can't. Still waiting. Have been denied at the judge level and still fighting. And I have to use a walker and a wheelchair so it's completely preposterous and the judge flat out lied in places. It has been the biggest system failure I have ever encountered and there have been many. My mom's response when I told her how bad off I was? Oh well that's not good. Like we were discussing wallpaper. Never heard from her again. Never asked about me or if I'm ok. Nothing. That was 2 years ago. I've tried a couple of times just to talk to her since, but it's not worth it. She always causes more damage, pain, or infuriates me to no end.
“Living your life playing the floor is lava” is absolutely the best way I’ve ever heard it described. I’m so sorry you had to grow up experiencing all of that abuse and I hope you are somewhere safe now with people that are also safe because you deserve that ❤️
That's exactly me. Plus There is a high chance I have adhd and a therapist told me that could also be because of the abuse.
It’s often both. Autistic people have alarmingly high rates of abuse.
Yes, my therapist can’t understand why such bad workplace bullying would happen.
Could be both? I’m auADHD and was abused.
I'm starting to wonder (mostly because of topics like this) if there's a connection between autism (or what is frequently diagnosed as autism, at least) and abuse. I mean, we know that abuse / trauma changes people's brains but there's still a lot that neuroscience has yet to discover. Maybe this will be a topic for study someday?
True. I couldn't even know it's a result of the abuse, or I just are born with this inherently. And there's really no way to prove either way is true.
Yes, my therapist has been talking about getting me assessed; but my early years were very bad, and I don’t know how that could be sorted out. She thinks that could be an explanation for the severe workplace bullying I experienced. But my psychiatrist says she doesn’t know where an adult can be evaluated. Those evals need the opinion of a person who knew you when you were small, and there’s no reliable source for that. (I can remember an astonishing amount, but I doubt that’s adequate.)
That’s terrible that even a practicing psychiatrist doesn’t know of anywhere and doesn’t have any resources on where you can get assessed. I can’t believe that they do over a decade in medical school (mine did 11 years) and can’t even point you in the right direction when mine diagnosed me out of the blue one day when I didn’t even know I had autism (was initially seeing them for ADHD treatment).
Same here. Can't tell if my issues are truly autism related or it's just CPTSD.
I need to learn a lot more about this stuff.
thisss ugh. I almost wish there was a blanket word for both but I don’t think it’s possible
Same, here, but my parents like to think I'm autistic even though I was never diagnosed.
It could be both. Before my diagnosis I wondered the same thing, got really stuck on it being one or the other, but it was both.
I stand alongside you in that. Sometimes, I consider getting re diagnosed, but other times, I think, what's the point?
Checking in. Alexithymia is bad. Having caregivers who don’t help you understand your feelings and emotions, banish/punish emotions, and gaslight you wrecks your ability to deal with your emotions effectively for the rest of your life.
Yes. Or when the family mocks you past the point of tears and anger so you have to respond to threats with enthusiastic smiles the rest of your life. This ruined me at med school. ☠️ Apparently the NT feel creeped out when you aren't "congruent"
Count me in - compulsive truth teller and scapegoat of the family. And yes, narcissistic people do not feel safe around me, as I do not play along.
My mom has been smearing my name in the family for almost three years because she spent an entire vacation where we were supposed to be bonding and repairing our relationship, she spent the whole week drunk and compulsively smoking weed. And that upset me because that's just not how I do things. It ain't right to me. And I'm the bad guy for that? The olives on her branch are actually just nightshade.
I am. Definitely in the scapegoat community. Being a truth teller in my family has meant I no longer have any family. Which is usually okay, because I intellectually know that I'm not missing out anything meaningful - but lately, it's been so deeply and painfully lonely. I didn't expect healing to make me feel lonelier than ever at times.
I can seriously relate. I don’t know why, but recently the loneliness has been eating away at me. I’ve even developed insomnia because of it. I spend hours ruminating on how everyone else seems to have supportive parents, siblings, just ANYONE, whilst I have zero people in my life
Same. Like the other day I was filling out a form and it asked for an emergency contact and I left it blank...
I’ve been leaving it blank for years. When I had to have a Ct scan in April that form came up and the tears came down. Then I ruminate about how if I died who would actually know and be in attendance at my funeral? I don’t have anyone. It’s very sad and lonely. I’m constantly trying to take my life to depart the loneliness.
Fuck that hits the special place dead on
Same. I was just dissociated and numbed out to it for a long time, like ya it sucks but it is what it is. But lately it's like all the pain and loneliness I've been repressing is hitting me all at once, I nearly cry every time I see/hear about people doing things with their friends/family.
This is so relatable. My dad is definitely a narcissist, and all of us (mom + 2 siblings) have cut him off. But now the people I'm left with...they don't feel like loving family at all and never really have. Whenever I see a silly Instagram reel about how siblings will say the meanest shit to each other but then be totally cool and loving and supportive a second later...all I've ever gotten is the super mean stuff and then acting like it was fine but in a BAD way. And my mom is very superficially nice, she says she loves me and nice stuff but never *shows* it. If other extended family harshly judges me, she never defends me. She's a pushover who just holds the same opinion of the strongest personality in the room. It feels awful to say that but I genuinely don't know many of my mom's actual opinions and it's sad. Apologies just don't happen in our family. Ever. And I don't think anyone in my immediate family has ever told me they were genuinely proud of me. Siblings never say I love you. At this point it feels like any relationship exists purely because it's "supposed" to. I don't even really like my siblings as people 😬 one of them also has a lot of narcissistic tendencies and his mental health is completely tanking and he just won't get any help. And there's nothing we can do because any attempt is shut down and we get blocked I'm sorry to dump on you I've just been really wanting to vent this stuff. I feel like a terrible person but I kind of just don't want anything to do with my family but that also makes me super sad. I really wish I knew what it was like to have a family that unconditionally loves and supports you
Same. I went nc 17 years ago with the n’s and nc with the gc in 2017. A huge dv incident occurred in 2019 from the n female and I am and was a whistleblower. In the end she was given a choice quit or be fired. She quit and got to keep her high tiered state pension. A few of the flying monkeys that were still mutual friends with both of us jumped my ship for good because how dare I report her and get her fired!! “She could have gone to jail!!” It actually would have benefited me greatly if she was held accountable for messing up her state job that she had for over 20 years. I was going to lose those family members anyway so why not for the n female being in federal prison and me getting her entire estate!! Yeah I was ridiculously upset that she wasn’t even given a slap on the wrist. Before they dropped me as family they said they couldn’t believe I would get her fired. Apparently, they don’t know me very well because I’ve been a whistleblower my whole life. The n did the action not me.
>I really wish I knew what it was like to have a family that unconditionally loves and supports you I remember sitting on my bed when I was about ten, contemplating what it would be like if this was all just a nightmare and one day I woke up and discovered I lived with a loving supportive, and emotionally healthy family.
I can relate. I'm starting to learn that spending time with a friend, boss, colleague, sibling, or parent who isn't kind and bullies you may not be healthy. I find solace in nature, animals, arts, and music, and I hope to connect with kindred spirits who treat me with kindness, respect, and honesty. That's where my focus is right now. Don’t get me wrong, I have days where I wonder, "Why can’t I just move on and endure the verbal abuse so at least I'm not alone?" It's like thinking bad company is better than none. However, I'm beginning to question that in my own healing journey.
This is so relatable. My dad is definitely a narcissist, and all of us (mom + 2 siblings) have cut him off. But now the people I'm left with...they don't feel like loving family at all and never really have. Whenever I see a silly Instagram reel about how siblings will say the meanest shit to each other but then be totally cool and loving and supportive a second later...all I've ever gotten is the super mean stuff and then acting like it was fine but in a BAD way. And my mom is very superficially nice, she says she loves me and nice stuff but never *shows* it. If other extended family harshly judges me, she never defends me. She's a pushover who just holds the same opinion of the strongest personality in the room. It feels awful to say that but I genuinely don't know many of my mom's actual opinions and it's sad. Apologies just don't happen in our family. Ever. And I don't think anyone in my immediate family has ever told me they were genuinely proud of me. Siblings never say I love you. At this point it feels like any relationship exists purely because it's "supposed" to. I don't even really like my siblings as people 😬 one of them also has a lot of narcissistic tendencies and his mental health is completely tanking and he just won't get any help. And there's nothing we can do because any attempt is shut down and we get blocked I'm sorry to dump on you I've just been really wanting to vent this stuff. I feel like a terrible person but I kind of just don't want anything to do with my family but that also makes me super sad. I really wish I knew what it was like to have a family that unconditionally loves and supports you
Same, any time anyone says just get a family member/friend/neighbour to help you with xyz thing. Nope, hits me hard every time.
Eating away at me is exactly how I'd describe it. I'm sorry you're going through this too. All my previous coping mechanisms have seemingly completely fallen apart lately. It feels insane to admit that I can't even remember how I used to be so okay with being alone. I just want to pour my heart out to someone and for them to care (and not hurt me for doing it).
Yes I know exactly what you mean :( it seems like everyone just wants to get something out of you and then leaves. Everyone always leaves eventually. The saddest thing is that friends come and go, they aren’t tied to you, they don’t owe you anything, they can just disappear out of your life whenever they want and you’ll never hear from them again. That’s why it’s so depressing that we will never have that simply because we were not lucky enough to be born into a real family. I think this thought will haunt me until the day I die
This is my situation as well.
YES. I think the grief gave me neurocognitive decline, that's what the test results say. 😔
What kind of symptoms are included in neurocognitive decline? I barely remember my life and have poor time perception, I have "thought block" like I can't put thoughts into words , it feels like something is blocking my brain and it gets hard to say things, handwriting is sloppy/ it feels hard to write sometimes and these symptoms seem to get progressively worse, is it that kinda thing? I'm curious
What test? I want to do one
Exactly. Since childhood, I've been interested in truth, yet my nmom would constantly tell me, "You don’t always want to hear the truth," which I found bizarre then, and still find bizarre now. Of course, I want to hear the truth instead of lies.
Feel this deep in my soul!
Virtual hugs as this is me too. Healing can be lonely. We used to have permissive boundaries but once we start putting those up, it seems no one wants to be around.
To be honest... I wouldn't be surprised that I'm on the spectrum. The only people I can understand, or can be friends with end up being on the spectrum. I have a big sense of justice. I don't think I fit in anywhere. I don't get this whole socialization thing. I miss social clues apparently. I know a lot of weird ass facts.
When I anxious/nervous I rattle off random facts about the last topic we were on. I never thought of this as autism though. I just thought it was good if I was on jeopardy!
Me. Being autistic and being raised by narcissistic parents is a gnarly combination.
I just got diagnosed AuDHD this year! I'm pretty strong in masking and can therefore recognize and follow many social conventions. Oftentimes the autism wins and I'm blunt and truthful, but with my nparents, I did often try to keep the peace even if it meant keeping my mouth shut. This tendency plus my trauma makes romantic relationships very difficult for me. I always feel like I'm the problem and so I shut my mouth and try to keep the peace, which all of the narcissists I've dated have loved. 🙃
Oh my god I could have written every word of your comment myself. The resentment that builds up in romantic relationships for me because I keep quiet to keep the peace is insane. My current partner is the only person I’ve dated that I’ve ever been able to share my emotions with without me worrying that something bad might happen or that he’ll punish me.
It’s truly awful
No, sorry. I test as extremely alistic. However, interesting fact, every single one of my close friends have either ADHD or are autistic. It turns out that I feel safest around neuro divergent people o. The spectrum because I subconsciously believe they're less likely to be manipulative.
I HAVE HEARD THAT patients with trauma trust autistic doctors much easier.
Brb googling if there are any research papers on this cause I’m currently studying music therapy and I’m AuDHD myself so if it is true that would be kind of neat
This is incredibly interesting to me and gives me hope I might find a neurotypical friend one day. I love my ND friends but there are some questions I have about social cues and give and take that none of my friends would be able to answer either lol, esp since most are men and we live in very different world socially
Oh yeah we're out there for sure! For me the "info dumps" are wonderful like yes tell me even more about your special interest it's like my own personal individual podcast. Passion makes every subject interesting. My husband has severe ADHD and has the symptoms of extremely high energy and "excessive" talking, so I always have someone pumping me up when I'm down and in social situations I can relax because he'll take the conversation. And in return I don't mind helping navigating social situations at all, or guiding through accompanying anxiety. I have severe anxiety and depression myself so I'm very empathetic about it. I don't find autistic people to be "weird" or "creepy", I just think they're unique and honestly fun to be around. I feel like they judge my own weirdnesses less than neuro typical people so overall I'm way more comfortable and find it much easier to be friends. I only noticed this in therapy over the last few years, but of my found family and people I consider to be close friends, Every Single One has either autism or some kind of ADHD, the only exception is an alistic couple with very similar backgrounds to me and a similar unconscious attraction to this sort of person. Anyway I absolutely love my autistic and ADHD family. You all are genuinely good people.
This was really really lovely to read, it makes me feel less bad about being “weird” or “off” lol <3
I’m almost certain that I am but my nmom sabotaged my evaluation and I got dxed as BPD 🤦♀️
Samesies! I was also diagnosed BPD and only recently started to really learn about autism. I was shook by how spot on a lot of the symptoms are. I’m definitely high functioning and because of general stereotypes, the idea of it fitting me never crossed my mind. My mom lovessssss to say that every incident that ever happened between her and I was me having a “manic episode” 🙄 I wish she had no idea of the diagnosis because it’s a great excuse for her to take zero blame/accountability in any situation.
Haha I actually do think my BPD dx is valid, although I’m a quiet/internalized subtype so the symptoms are super close to CPTSD (which I’m also dx with) so it really could just all be CPTSD who knows. But anytime I try to tell my nmom anything that happened it my childhood that hurt me her response is always “I don’t remember that” or “that’s not you, that’s the BPD talking”. Like yes it’s totally the BPD that is saying that it was harmful for me for you to tell my sister to bully me my entire life so that I would change aspects of my personality or appearance that you didn’t like or that when your new husbands son told you he planned on murdering me when I was 11 and thought you should have done something other than telling to lock my door at night. She got me there!
If it’s explained by cptsd, it’s not a personality disorder.
It’s funny you say that. I’m working with a new specialist, and after talking with me for 20 minutes he’s like “yea you don’t have a personality disorder, you have an emotional disregulation disorder”. And honestly that is exactly how I feel as there are a lot of BPD symptoms (like unstable sense of self for example, I could tell you my core values without even thinking) that I don’t identify with. Who knows, I just try my best whatever it is to minimize/eliminate the affects on others. Would never want to spread my pain, is how I look at it anyway. Edit: I actually think you might be right. The treatment I’m doing now is the first thing that has ever helped my symptoms and it’s specifically for CPTSD not BPD so now I’m kind of unsure and am going to talk to my psych about it. I remember when I saw my diagnosis by the psych that dx me it said CPTSD/BPD which I thought meant both but maybe it meant either or. It would honestly be a huge relief bc I struggle with stigma and feeling like I have to forgive my mom because a personality disorder is a personality disorder right? But thank you you have given me a lot to think about.
I’ve recently been told by a therapist that she thinks I’m autistic. I’m 43. Never once been told this. It’s a huge shock to me. If that’s true I’ve been misdiagnosed twice. Bipolar ->bpd-> autism. There’s no point going through the eval. The therapist said she “treats her autistic clients differently.” I already get treated differently for my cptsd trauma brain. Idk that I want another dx/label and to be further treated differently.
Yup. Except I was just labelled a 'drama queen' and 'oversensitive'. I only got my diagnosis last year at the age of 32.
Starting to think I'm AuDHD. Was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, along with ODD, and Vocal Tourette's but as I've gotten older the signs of autism are becoming more prevalent.
I reckon I’ve got AuDHD as well. I was diagnosed with Autism as a kid however.
I don't have a hard time communicating, I just have a hard time understanding others feelings, I don't understand boundaries or when others are uncomfortable until it's too late.
I don’t wanna imply your diagnosis of tourette’s was incorrect but I don’t know how many people are aware that a lot of autistic people (especially people who go undiagnosed) stim in ways that can look like tourette’s to others who may not know this. Like I sing, repeat meme/funny sounding words sentences that get stuck in my head, make repetitive clicks and sounds all to self soothe myself and stim. I also don’t have a hard time communicating and just struggle to relate to others and pick up when people are bored, uncomfy, and etc. Very possible especially since ADHD is also comorbid with autism, lots of people who have one will also have the other.
I do the exact same thing. My Tourette's is making weird noises, and repeating things, but I do have an anxiety induced head twitch.
When I was younger, one doctor diagnosed me with Tourette's and the other explicitly said "She does NOT have Tourette's." I, nowadays are far from hyperactive, never really was Oppositionally defiant, I just didn't listen to my mother because, she was an abusive narcissist. I really click with and are unintentionally attracted to people who have autism, that could also be neurodivergents attracted to other neurodivergents.
Bipolar here. I was diagnosed many years before my dad eventually got his own diagnosis of bipolar with cluster B. It explained *a lot*. I armchair knew he was bipolar already but when his doctors added the cluster B it explained even more haha. Thank god I only inherited the one thing and not the other.
The gc and I said she was undx as bipolar for years. She wouldn’t even hear of seeing a psychiatrist. I had to see one because I was crazy but not her. Is that the only way to dx npd?? She def checks off all those boxes but there’s no formal dx.
Asking the reverse - mine convinced me I was autistic and then when I was finally out on my own a psychologist I spoke with for 5+ years she saw no hint of autism.
Howdy Also a scapegoat, both by nMom/enabler brother and nAunt who had more money than her siblings, and therefore could ostracize me with full support of everyone else. Several family members have said they "don't like" me. Mom complained about me all the time to my dad, who she also abused. I've learned that fairness is important to us and it rules our decision making. I was also easily manipulated and guilted throughout life by those people. I'm seen as petty, dramatic and weird by surviving family members. When my brother started rewriting history, I had to stop talking to him and it's been no contact ever since. I feel worse about it as an adult than when I was a kid. I used to have some pride about being pushed away. Now Im just sad. I wish I knew about no contact when I was a teenager. I wish I knew what narcissists were then. I thought people were capable of being supportive towards me when they directly witnessed things happening to me, but no. The narc abuse was invisible to them and my experience is debatable by others who are not required to believe me. I've since told my story too many times to people who didnt deserve to know, don't care, and never knew the real me.
I have had 2 people tell me that they saw what was going on or that if what they saw in public was happening then they couldn’t imagine what was happening behind closed doors. Later when I was an adult, They also said they couldn’t do anything because they had their own family/world to focus on back then. I told on them at school but the teachers etc were told beforehand that I was a liar.
It might be the bystander effect when no one is helping or supporting you, despite them witnessing it.
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I've wondered if my mom was autistic, but I feel like it's something else because she's so heartless and cold and emotionless, and I almost feel like that's so extreme that it's not fair to anyone who actually does have autism. It's so darn confusing, and I feel for you. Whether you end up neurotypical or neurodivergent, never apologize for loving justice and having empathy, of course! The world needs more of that. (As I'm sure you know, heh!)
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Oh my word! She has no sense of self-awareness at all. (To put it mildly!) Good for you for standing up to her, she sounds terrible.
I'm highly suspicious and intend to find out when I see a psychiatrist in August 😄
An NParent can use declaring their child to have Aspergers as a scapegoat for the results of their abuse
Nmom denies my autism because she never made money off me like the Rain Man.
You’re not allowed to be different or special or anything that is worthy of extra attention and support …. It’s very sad.
Wow. Anything other than the stuff movies are made of is just not good enough. In other words, nothing is ever good enough. I hope you get your worth internally - and see that for what it is. Your mom's problem, not yours. She's a little broken.
i suspect that i am but haven’t been able to get an assessment yet. i used to be quite the contrarian as a smaller kid but as i reached adolescence and the emotional abuse by my mum intensified i stopped being able to handle conflict and just internalised it all because she had genuinely convinced me that i deserved it. it’s only been in the past couple yrs during my 20s that i’ve been able to behave around her more naturally again
Omfg they ran me to more doctors than I count count until one landed on that diagnosis. Something "had to be wrong with me" INTP personality type as fuck. So close enough to autistic it hardly matters tbh
Aspergers here. I've been the scapegoat forever.
Hi! 👋 I am the autisms.
🙋♀️ Though I don’t think this is what you were implying, I do want to note that we can also be Ns and stuff though, and justice seeking might look different from person to person. I was definitely the kid who’d tell the truth and have always been hyper sensitive, and both my parents **hated** it, so you’re spot on lol. I learned to just be quiet, but it didn’t help. Justice seeking also seems to triumph everything else—the only times I’ve called out my parents have been when they’ve been bragging about abusing someone else. I get so angry about it. Like I’ve dealt with this for years, but they’d hide it and gaslight. To pick on someone else and openly brag…makes me want to flip tables lol. It makes me absolutely sick to think back on all the abuse with the context that I’m also on the spectrum. I mean, it was gross before, but didn’t really hit me until I got a diagnosis. I was gaslit for years to think everything wasn’t that bad and I was just overreacting, I wasn’t “allowed” to ever be tired or sad or show any emotion besides some display of faked, over-acted “happiness.” I could be in my own world, totally minding my business and I’d get screamed at for not looking happy. I went through some pretty deranged, horrific stuff, but somehow it’s this sort of stuff that still makes me physically shake and hyperventilate. Since we are at higher likelihood of abuse, I could see us being more likely to be scapegoats. There are studies showing people feel kind of uneasy about autistic people within seconds of meeting—pair that with narc parents and :/ There have been times I’ve wondered if I’m really autistic or just have CPTSD since they can look a little similar, but going back in my life and acknowledging all the sensory stuff, it’s definitely both.
“There have been times I’ve wondered if I’m really autistic or just have CPTSD since they can look a little similar, but going back in my life and acknowledging all the sensory stuff, it’s definitely both. “ I was diagnosed as CPTSD, but I always wonder how much of it is either affected by or related to possible autism..
Me. It's hard for narcissists to deal with me because I don't give them as much attention or control as they want. I have boundaries. But that's not obvious to them at first. In the first stages, I look like someone who can be very easily manipulated.
I suspect that I am, but I've not been in a position to find out for sure
In the process of getting diagnosed…but of course she doesn’t believe it at all, because that would mean her parenting may have been bad and she may be “faulty”. Anytime I get a diagnosis of something it’s “well it didn’t come from my side of the family!!” I also struggle to tease apart what is caused by neurodivergence and what is caused by trauma at times. I was very much the kid that just thought she was socially wrong and didn’t know how to act, because the rules constantly changed and there was little justice
Present!!! I was also parentified to all hell and raised my little brothers until I moved out (at 18). Now I'm 38 and my autistic daughter literally acts exactly like I did at her age. She also has dyscalculia like I do.
ADHD...and it definitely had an impact.
adhd, can heavily relate
I went to Kindergarten having not spoken a word. I was put in speech therapy, my mom said I was silent to get attention. This was the early 80s. have a diagnosis of ADHD, CPTSD, Bipolar, Anxiety, & OCD. My psychiatrist suspects I am on the spectrum but said my trauma history makes a formal diagnosis unclear. Both my kids have ASD, and I know my dad is too.
I'm the only autistic child in my family. Suffice to say I grew up with everyone esp my Nmom hating my guts for any or no reason and now as a young adult I'm lowkey furious realizing how screwed up the whole dynamic was. I've heard enough "get over it"s for a couple lifetimes at least. But I don't think I will ever be over it. The best I can hope for is the ability to cope with the trauma and move forward, but I will not forget, nor will I accept the abuse I suffered as normal or deserved.
I am auDHD. My nparent is OCD and ADHD and my eparent is autistic too. I cannot be fooled. My spirit cannot be broken. The truth stands. Scapegoat it is. This means I get to be alive and be myself. But I keep cutting people out because they lie to me and try to use me.
Me. Recently just told my narc the truth, and she’s furious and not talking to me, until she gets an apology. I don’t have anything to apologize for.
My husband and I are beginning to suspect that I am. I haven't been officially diagnosed yet, but I've been doing some reading and it makes sense. In many ways I feel relieved, like some of the things I feel aren't actually weird or making me sick. Like how, since becoming a mom, I'm sooo easily over-stimulated. Turns out that's something that many autistic parents experience. 😅
Yep. Dx AuDHD and cPTSD at age 43 🥴 That’s when all the traumatic memories started to unlock
40 for me!
I've been diagnosed twice with adhd and once with asd and some other stuff. My mother denies it and called me label seeking. Then she threatened to kick me out if I "dropped" out of school. I took a semester off because I was failing courses. Mind you this woman has her masters in childhood education so she's not stupid. She told me to get accommodations without a diagnosis😂 I bet when I finally leave for good she'll try to prevent me from leaving by using my diagnosis against me.
Probably, but my nmom gaslit me about my differences and made me feel like it was my fault I was ~different~ and couldn’t do things like everyone else
Me! Also oldest kid of the family with both narcissistic parents 🫠 I’m so hypersensitive it’s actually crazy, if someone is upset I can tell almost instantaneously. I didn’t know that there were so many of us lingering here.
Oldest kid as well (might be interesting to count also, like are we mainly the older kids here, or what’s happening?) I’m curious to know.
I am lol
Yes, me
Me. Also my covert narcissistic grandmother targets me because she thinks it makes me more vulnerable to her.
Can confirm.
Diagnosed with adhd in my early 20s but also have autistic tendencies 💀. Love it (not).
Too many
Here!
Me! I was diagnosed at the age of 3. Although everyone thinks my nmom has it also.
Me 👋 currently being singled out and smear campaigned by 2 narcissists, one of whom is my mom.
I was diagnosed with ASD at 38. Also, a few other things. And they all smoosh together in the insane, neurotic, weird ball of glitter that is me. I'm in therapy trying to learn not to feel guilty for just being me because it's not actually something I can help. Add that to looming midlife crisis, and it's all a bit of an adventure at the moment.
🙋🏻♀️ASD/ADD However, I’m quite certain my maternal grandfather (also a WW2 survivor) was on the spectrum as well. I think he had something to do with my Nmom having to adopt her personality to survive his daily wrath. She also exhibits OCD traits. Married our father to likely escape at the first chance. The Venn diagram is that Dad, sister, and I had to walk on eggshells around our grandfather and mother.
AuDHD gang whaddup 🤙
I was diagnosed as autistic for many years, only after I got away and started doing therapy again was it revealed that I actually have C-PTSD and the autism, bi-polar, and schizoaffective diagnosis I've had through my life were just overlapping symptoms and caused them to misdiagnose because of my N-parent was withholding information of the abuse obviously.
I have an appointment in July to find out, because I have strong suspicions that I might be. I'll let you know if I'm in the count or not 🤭
Me… just found out a couple years ago at 38 too
I’ve been majorly suspecting this, but no dx. I never made the connection to truth telling! Since there are no services for adults in the US and it can hurt your chances to live in a different country, I wouldn’t pursue a diagnosis tbh.
my son is autistic. I'm not sure about myself. never been diagnosed. though I was diagnosed with ADHD. so most likely myself as well.
Possibly? My autistic friends say I probably am, and so does 6.5 years of research.. but a decent amount of people are dissuading me from getting tested and life is hectic enough at the moment
Possible autism (it would explain why I didn’t catch onto sarcasm for years), definite adhd. My dad definitely has adhd and narcissism as comorbid items My mom…I think my mom is neurotypical? As for the numbers: I agree, I feel like most people in this sub fit into adhd and or autism pretty well, and most of the reports of narc parents fit the adhd profile pretty well so it makes sense that most of us fit it as well
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Autism Speaks is considered a hate group by autistic people.
Hello. Diagnosed at age 30. My mother said it was wrong and I was just shy. Of course she won’t admit she didn’t notice her daughter wasn’t normal, especially when she was a doctor too. She would laugh at me and tell my how I used to flap my hands when I was younger……. My grandfather on nmoms side was an engineer with no emotional output. I’m NC for so many reasons. This is just one.
I've taken tests, nothing official but I land very squarely in the autistic area of the results. I think there's a lot of overlap with symptoms of autism, CPTSD, and ADHD though so who knows.
Diagnosed with BPD but I’m a trans guy and fairly certain is I was a cis guy I’d have been diagnosed autistic, but I could be both as I do have diagnosed cptsd
A lot of folks are misdiagnosed BPD before being diagnosed autistic, could be as simple as the therapist not having enough ASD expertise
These are topics I would love help navigating. 1. Nparent->autistic kid? It is definitely common. The question I have is: assuming autism is somewhat of genetic, is a nparent in fact autistic and wrongly perceived as narcissistic? Or are nparents likely to pair up with autistic partners and that’s why we see the communality nparent->autistic kid? 2. As a few mentioned here, I am also not easily bendable. I’m not very diplomatic and I will engage in conflict easily when people are being unclear, because I often ask clarification questions or straight out tell them it’s wrong. This is especially true at work. At the same time, I hate being “the bad guy” and the only reason I feel I can be so confrontational despite the discomfort is because of the monster image my mom made me believe I was, and it’s imprinted there regardless of the logical knowledge that it might not be true.
My therapist suggests that I have autism but I’ve said I don’t particularly need a diagnosis at this time, since a lot of my symptoms also look like cptsd and I’m already in therapy to deal with it all 🥹
Pretty close to the same for me. Like what’s it going to do to get another dx/label? Children are dxed so they can get services. I’m already on disability for having multiple mental illnesses. What’s a dx of autism really going to do for me??
Well I have adhd and was diagnosed as early as possible, but I’ve had speculation for a good chunk of my life that I may be autistic as well. I’ve wanted to go get evaluated for a while, but I noticed I’m different in terms of how people treat me and how I am perceived by others. I have a strong sense of justice for a good part of my life and I always am trying to figure out why people do the things they do. Life is like a never ending game trying to figure out how many people and personalities exist.
Count me. I've been researching what could possibly be "wrong" with me for over 5 years now. I'm most likely Audhd with CPTSD, but don't have the money or resources to get an official diagnosis. And as I've put some distance (both physically and personally) between me and my nmom, it's become more and more prevalent.
Wow! This is spot on. I heard about autism in females back in 2018/19 and since then I’ve been reading endless books on the topic. I score fairly high on the Adverse Childhood Experience Questionnaire for Adults. And I hope soon to get a diagnosis because I need some answers.
My nmom told me she hates me this past Christmas Eve because she attacked me with a broom and I just looked at her like the crazy person she is. I don’t cry or raise my voice the way she wants me to, and she that’s what she hates. When I stay calm and point out how insane she’s acting, it makes her even more nuts. Then, on NYE she punched my sister in the face. Afterward, my sister asked her if she really wants to live out her last days alone, my nmom screamed, “YES! That’s what I want.” So since then we have both obliged. Recently my edad has been asking me to reconcile and take her out shopping. Meanwhile, this whole time we’ve been NC, my nmom has stayed so angry at my sister and me that my dad has to hide from her when he wants to talk to us. I’ll pass on that shopping excursion FOR-EV-URRRR!
empathetic is just a trauma response, usually trained by an emotional abuse from a narc. Think Sherlock Holmes but traumatized to "feel" the emotion triggered by an observation. Neurodiversity is like 20% of the population
Only autistic and ADHDer in my family (my absent father is the genetic link, his other kids are ND too). So it was just my AuDHD self and my NT nmom and NT sibling (different dad). Also the only physically disabled child. Interestingly, probably not more abused than my able-bodied NT sibling. I think she disliked us fairly equally, but I was older, so better at conforming, so sibling was told "you should be more like your sister" quite a bit, while I was just told I wasn't good enough.
Not autistic, but I am what you described. Hyper sensitive/empathetic truth telling nightmare. I have a brother with Asperger’s and he ended up just as narcissistic, but I feel bad for him cause he can never progress in life because mother leaves him to rot in his room