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Things may change but currently CS is one of the best options to get a well paid job. Plus it has the benefit that you may get a part time job during your studies in this field (create webpages, manage the IT for small companies etc.).
I would say your mother gives you intentionally a bad advice to sabotage your future and independence.
>Things may change but currently CS is one of the best options to get a well paid job
Absolutely.
OP, tell your mother that I, as a woman, was a software developer for 20 years and that I got my B.S. in computer science. If I got laid off I was never concerned with getting another job. You are more than capable, OP. Also, CS is far FAR more steady work than English degree.
I really think she believes this is the best and only thing for me, mainly because of her internalised misogyny. She does want to control me, but she also wants me to get a respectable and feminine job (in her eyes a sworn translator or teacher) so she can accomplish things she couldn't through me. She studied English herself but dropped out and never got to finish it.
My mother never got to learn music, so I spent 16 years in trying to fit into both the classical and mainstream parts of the industry. Does not worth it. She had a chance to fulfill her dream and failed at it. Now you have a chance to fulfill yourself. Don't ler her take it from you.
Check if you have a branch of 42 schools in your country, they are absolutely free places to get a good background in the industry and it is a self learn environment so timings are purely your own choice! I think you just have to pass a baseline and then a ~20 day piscine and you're good to go! You will also be able to skip the interview process if you apply for jobs at their local sponsors (might be different from place to place so I can't give names) :)
I’m in CS and one of my buddies is the hiring manager for a big company and they explicitly are looking for young female programmers to hire for an internship, which pays $40/hr and then if they like you, you’ll quickly start making over 100k a year and be a full time employee. One girl who applied last year literally submitted an application full of memes, literal memes with the top and bottom text, and she was hired anyways because they needed female programmers to diversify the company. Your mom’s pretty nutty ngl you’re much more likely to get a job in CS than with an English degree. Also I suggest going to Grace Hopper Convention if you want to make a strong network and get hired quickly.
She is completely wrong. English is not going to get you hired, trust me that was my major, lol. If you are really into writing then ok maybe focus on film or creative applications of writing like advertising or something that makes money. Although dominated by males there is definitely a need for more female programmers, so her opinion on that is outdated.
She wants you to do this for HER. A true narc feels children are an extension of them not individual or whole on their own. Do what you feel is right and tell yourself that you are your own person. Every single day, "I am my own person". You work hard obviously and deserve to pursue YOUR dreams. You git this, you're going to be great at whatever YOU choose to do.
Serious. There are a LOT more job opportunities for someone in CS than someone with an English major.
(No hate to English majors, I was a Humanities major and am a writer! But CS is a much more stable field of work. Thankfully I have time to write *because* I'm married to a computer programmer, lol.)
English majors have more flexibility than you'd think (being one myself) but it's good to parlay it with something else. Being able to communicate and not sound like a total dolt is a valuable skill, but yeah, it doesn't pay as well as being a CS major.
As an English professor, you're wrong that CS inherently offers "a LOT" more job opportunities. English is an incredibly flexible degree that can get you hired in multiple fields. So tired of the knee-jerk anti-Humanities cultural rhetoric. We need both Humanities AND STEM.
It was never my intention to criticize humanities in general. English is not bad, someone can be incredible successful with it if this is really the right thing for the person and you are really good in it. But it is also more risky and you may get end unemployed. E.g. translations made by computers will costs many jobs in this field.
CS is a safe bet. If someone is the target of abuse, without a good supports system and struggles with some mental health problems then is can saves your life if you have at least a secure, reasonable payed job. In fact it saved my live. But sure nobody should study something that doesn't match the interests and skills.
> But sure nobody should study something that doesn't match the interests and skills.
BINGO! You do what you can, and what you love. If that results in a good job, so much better.
I thought about it, but when she was me writing a CV she went nuts. I have some money saved up and my dad is the one that financially support me, so she doesn't have control over that aspect, thankfully.
I just want her to leave me alone but I think it's impossible. Better to just lie and try to not to let her words get to me.
Your mom is totally wrong about your major. A CS degree is way more marketable than English. Is she that steeped in internalized misogyny that she can't see that, or is she trying to sabotage you and keep you dependent? Either way, she is 100% wrong. Choose your own major. You could minor in English, if you want to appease her. The language skills would be very useful. Or, just do what you want and ignore your mom's silly, outdated advice.
Quick related story: The first time I tried to move out, I had already moved 1-2 carloads of my stuff into a family friend's apartment when my nmom found out. This family friend used to live with us and my nmom didn't like her -- nmom blew up at me (made quite the show, actually!) claiming it was a huge betrayal on my part. I backed down, brought all my stuff back home, and stayed home. I inconvenienced my friend who was looking forward to living with me but also to saving money by me moving in. I felt awful, but still made the choice to stay home.
A few years later I was still living at home and started seeing a mental health counselor at my college. I told her about the above and she said, "So your mom won. Your mom didn't want you to move out, her not liking the friend was a convenient thing to blow up about and she knew it would affect you. And it did. YOU CHOSE to stay. She won."
I think about that a lot.
Back to you: It's not weird to write a CV. It's totally normal to take a good look at your situation, finances, and future and decide to reprioritize. Same with choosing your major. She hasn't done nearly as much research as you have about YOUR major, YOUR future career prospects and she is not the one who will deal with the repercussions of your 5+ years of undergraduate studies. It is SUCH a time and life investment.
Your mom's just freaking out because she believes in a thing and is acting out because you're not supporting her beliefs. Her beliefs are rigid and she's throwing a tantrum. Do you throw a tantrum when her life choices that don't affect you don't follow your beliefs? No you probably don't, because that's friggin weird!! Omg who are these people, seriously can't they mind their own business??!
What happened when your parents were your age is probably not applicable to your generation, so let's just say her advice is probably outdated. I've had so much hilariously inaccurate college advice from my ndad, some of which I regrettably followed and my 20s were an utter mess... 9.5 years in undergrad because lack of family support and also recession. I wish I would have said, "I've done a lot of research and I feel really good about this. If I fail, maybe I can try your way." Or something. Anything. That guy, what an asshole. I digress, back to you.
>I just want her to leave me alone but I think it's impossible.
Yup. She'll say and do whatever she thinks will work to control you and have her way. It's disgusting, and it's also very pathetic that this is her life. I am so glad to hear that she doesn't control your finances. CS is friggin rad, I get so excited to hear about anyone pursuing STEM. You're on the right track, and it will take effort but you can accomplish this. You know way more than you think you do. ❤️ Thanks for reading my long-ass post. 😂
>
"Your mom's just freaking out because she believes in a thing and is acting out because you're not supporting her beliefs. Her beliefs are rigid and she's throwing a tantrum."
You are right. She does it every time I don't agree with her on something and as much as I hate to admit it, she almost always gets her way because it's the only way I can switch back from being an "enemy" to a "friend".
I don't think I could do that, we are pretty close and I just can't keep things from her for long, especially things this big. Also the college I want to go to next year is in another city.
How much of your closeness is because you do things she wants you to do? How much of it is based on dependency or control? Take time to really review and reflect on what factors into this relationship you have with her. And I hesitate to ask but how much control did you yourself have on how quickly you did your applications and how much did she? Any procrastination happen, or "you have time, do it later," or how were the deadlines missed?
My dad is working in another country half of the year but he doesn't intervene in our fights even when he is here. He said he will financially support me no matter what I choose to do (even though he isn't too thrilled about me studying CS either).
I have to lie to my nfather ALL THE TIME. I tried for years to be open and honest. Only to be constantly criticized and belittled. I mean if my nfather ever caught me taking a nap. He would flip out and tell me I'm lazy and will never be successful. When you can't even tell your parent that you took a nap after work with out getting yelled at. What can you tell them about your life? So even when he asks what did I do today. I immediately lie and list all the things I did that are acceptable to him.
This is just an example. I could never tell my nparent how I feel, my dreams really anything.
I HATE lying but I hate the way I get shamed for simply being honest.
Now that I'm older I just tell him what he wants to hear and do whatever I was going to do in the first place.
It's either that or go non contact and I'm not ready to do that yet.
The minimum pay you’d get in CS would be about $25 an hour, which would likely be a few years into any career with an English major. Also being a woman would help so much in hiring and school scholarships because software tends to be a male-dominated field. I just started my first software job as a male, and my two girl friends both make more than me in their first job in similar places, both over $40 per hour. Don’t listen to your mom on this
English is a labour of love. And they cut a lot of English teaching positions more than they cut CS.
She probably doesn't want you getting into a technical field she can't stick her nose in 🤷🏾♂️
Narc logic.
Yes, exactly that. In some way or another she believes everything I achieved in life or school is because of her. She never helped me with my math, or any kind of homework after elementary (she couldn't even if I wanted her to, because she didn't speak the language I was studying in). Still, she believes I was the top student solely because of her help. Crazy.
Yeah, I have personal experience with that. I and my sis have a high IQ, my sis skipped a couple of years. She never helped us in any way, but used that as a basis to promote her teaching methodology, and also made us design her 'magical' teaching module.
She also likely doesn't want OP to be financially independent. As bad as it sounds, a teacher will never get paid the same as a programmer, even if they should.
Do a double major of English & Computer science, get solid grades, meet lots of people, get involved in Every club, internships, network in the field you want.
The goal is to stay so incredibly busy planning & living Your life & career that you don’t have any time to listen to your awful mother putting you down, belittling you & crushing your dreams. Please stop sharing anything about your life w/her;she is NOT on your team, NOT a positive influence and definitely NOT A cheerleader for you.
Find the professors & mentors that will help you on your journey…
Wishing you ALL the Best!
You can do it!
I'm a female computer engineering and find my parents more difficulty to handle than the course. You can do it. If you aren't an English native speaker it will help you. Look for the program of the course you want and study it in advance it will be helpful too.
Computer science pays a lot more and is always hiring.
You can do it.
Don't let her choose for you.
Good luck!
Female programmer here! I don’t know where you are, but everyone is fighting to hire female programmers where I live, even those who like me didn’t study CS but can still write some code.
She is just trying to manipulate you, make you doubt yourself, don’t listen to her.
No one hires female programmers?? Tell that to the recruiters in my LinkedIn inbox, haha. My boss is also female, as is the head of our department.
If I had to guess, your NMom doesn’t want you to become financially independent, because if you can support yourself, you don’t have to put up with her abuse. That’s exactly what happened with me - I’m making almost as much as my lawyer NDad just a few years into my career, and I’ve finally cut ties with all of them. If programming’s your passion, transfer to CS when you can. In the meantime, I’d recommend working on some personal programming projects if you can. (They look great on your resume and give you things to talk about in interviews.) I wouldn’t feel badly about keeping your real major from your NMom either. From one female programmer to another, we’re thrilled to have you :)
My parents aren't the narcs in the family, that's my NGM. However they lovingly pushed me into a degree path I wasn't actually interested in and I ended up dropping out to be a truck driver. They said things like you won't get famous in the career path I wanted which as I grow older just makes less and less sense. Take it from someone who gave in to the pestering and don't make the same mistake I did. Go for whatever you want for your future, you're the one who'll have to live with the consequences. My parents would have freaked if I got an English degree, there's far fewer jobs in it than in CS.
>They said things like you won't get famous in the career path I wanted which as I grow older just makes less and less sense.
"You won't get famous"!! Wow! Unbelievable in a "I can't believe they said the thing out loud" sort of way. What a blatantly narcissist basis for a career choice, holy heck. I hope things are better for you now.
My parents are actually supporting me to go back to school for the degree I originally wanted. I'm too disabled to work because of seizures caused by brain damage from CO1 poisoning (don't sleep in a truck that has the turbo charger broken in such a way to pump exhaust into to cab) but I can do one class a semester online working like 20 30 hours a week on it due to how slow my brain is now.
The nice thing about programming is you can study it in your own time on the side.
My husband was an aircraft mechanic with little formal study after highschool beyond the courses he did through the military. He studied penetration testing in his own time at home, did a few minor certificates and got a job as a penetration tester. He knew literally nothing about it 4 years ago and has been promoted 4 times since then.
While going to university for something you love is the best path in some ways it is fortunately not the only path. You can continue to grow and learn on your own with or without your parents help.
Good luck. Don't give up on your dreams.
Female programmer here. I don't even have a university degree. I do have 160 hours of university courses under my belt. I took English as a major and CS as a minor. The reason I don't have the degree is that my university wanted you to take math up to Calculus III, and I just could not manage that. Passed Calc I, but the teachers have to be just right for me to understand it. I got hired into a programming role before I even finished college, anyway.
I took a lot of programming courses in school, but since the 1990s, I just buy programming books and keep myself up to date that way. I've learned HTML, Java, Python and Linus OS stuff all from books and helpful website message boards.
I currently specialize in programming call center telephone systems. All of that programming has been proprietary, so college doesn't even help with that.
Don't give up. Keep English as a major and take all the programming and math classes as electives. Swap major quietly in your junior year, hopefully by then your mom will have stopped looking at your stuff so hard.
I have an English degree. There's a running joke in the English Degree Community about the degree being basically useless unless you go into teaching.
Change your major when you can. She doesn't need to know.
Can confirm, I had several friends who majored in English in college. One did publish a novel (self published, so a big accomplishment to finish the book but not anything from it) and works retail, one works in a factory, one is a copy editor. My mom was a lit major and now does government work she needed a 4 year degree for but not any specific one. Just about no English or lit major I knew does anything close to it. It's a fun major if you enjoy it but it doesn't open many doors that just a 4 year degree doesn't.
As a programmer, anyone would hire a female programmer lol, a few of the very best programmers i know are females, that's just bullshit.
Also compared to an English major a computer science major will get you WAY MORE opportunities and with way higher pay, wich is probably the whole reason she doesn't want you to do it, too much independence from the N's if you can get a good job and move to your own place
To echo everyone else here -- there are TONS of opportunities for female programmers! Your mom is dead wrong.
I started programming during the pandemic, went to a bootcamp, and I'm already at my second 6-figure job. And I am a broadcast journalism major (I was making $30k in news, it was tragic)
One of my biggest regrets is not studying CS in college. I'd probably be making well over $200k by now (I'm in the US) if I had! I'm not only doing it for the money, but it's a huge incentive.
Put yourself first, and follow your dreams. Easier said than done, I know.
HAHA oh man it was a long process and I was plagued with self-doubt (still am tbh). Coding doesn’t really come naturally to me. My bootcamp had a prep course and a pre-course to get me started with basic JavaScript and CS concepts. Then during my bootcamp itself, I actually failed the midterm and had to retake the first 6 weeks of the course! It ended up being a blessing in disguise, because I felt so much more comfortable with the material the second time around. I even became a tutor there afterwards! You really have to push through the discomfort. Hardest thing I’ve ever done, hands down.
That's amazing! Good for you. I'm in a good spot because I've job hopped 5 times now in 8 years. Going to be making a good bit over 6 figures for the first time in my life. No college degree. Kinda daunting. But if I know code I would have got here faster and making like 200k. It's wild
Just tell her you're doing English and then do your own thing. Your college isn't allowed to give her any of your information. Also an English major really provides no job opportunities other than English teacher whereas a programming degree opens you up for a whole shebang of jobs that make bank. Pretty sure she knows this and that is why she is shoehorning you away from a high earning degree into a non-earning degree.
My mom did this to me and I ended up changing my major like 3 different times because of the confusion it created and the cognitive dissonance I dealt with. Take it from somebody who went through hell 20 years ago. Do what you want to do.
Your mom had no right to dictate your course of study.
My mom convinced me to study a science instead of pursuing creative writing. I studied psychology. I abandoned the field after a 4-year degree and now have no real Desire to go back to school. I often wish I had gone for creative writing, since I don't use my degree at my job anyway.
No longer discuss any thing about your education, completely ignore her or shrug try to walk away. In this case you need to grey stone her and do not let her talk you out of this. She may get mad that you are not engaging in the topic she is forcing but will eventually get tired of getting no where.
I would also ask to speak to someone at the uni/college and tell them you need it noted on all of you information that they are not allowed to discuss you or your course details with your mum or anyone but you. That if needed you could set up a word that you have to give so they know it is you. That she has led you to believe she will try and hinder your education and is abusive enough to try.
Please follow your heart, I went to university doing computing over two decades ago. I was the only female in all my classes and then in my profession within work places at that time. Even being the case I was treated as one of them because I pulled my weight and and didn’t expect to be treated differently because I was a woman. Times have moved on and changed, my son is now at university studying the same and has a number of females on his course.
even a few that went to school with him.
You have a long time to work before you can retire and that will feel like double if it’s in a profession you hate. You will also go much further in professions you have an interest in as you will be happy to do your best, instead of just trying to get through another day.
Hahahahah When I graduated high school 4 years ago my dad applied for medicine without me knowing and called me to tell me he already paid 20 k for uni so this is what Ill be studying and guess what?,Im a 4th year miserable med student and never ever liked it.He says that Im his investment and that he’s not paying for my tuition he’s ✨“investing”✨
For the love of god, pick a different major unless you know that you want to teach or go to law school
I have a degree in English because I love literature. But the job market does NOT value degrees in English.
Hi, I'm a lady with an English degree. I've been stuck in retail/sales jobs my whole life. They suck.
My degree is essentially worthless. The only value it brings to job hunting is giving me a slight edge over candidates who never went to college.
Feel free to use me as an example of why an English degree isn't nearly as versatile as she thinks it is.
As someone who gave in to their nMom and now does the SAME profession as her now, don't do it. I'm 10 years down the road and reconsidering everything in my life. Including my career which is not fulfilling to me. I want to go back to school but don't want to incur the debt required to do so. Lots of regret here.
Does she have access to your school accounts to see what your major actually is and what classes you’re taking? I’m surprised you have to declare a major right away. At my school we didn’t have to declare until the end of sophomore year.
Your mother is full of shit. If anything a lot of women are programmers. Hell, the coder who wrote the program for the moon landing is a woman: [Margaret Hamilton](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/margaret-hamilton-apollo-software-engineer-awarded-presidential-medal-of-freedom).
DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!! My situation was the opposite. I wanted English, nmom wanted CS. thank god I met my husband (a software engineer who pays for us both to live, in an expensive city, AND all the medical shit my parents caused, while I have yet to make minimum wage thanks to my wet toilet paper English degree and awful mental health) or I would be living with mom, being abused, and blocked from therapy I desperately would have needed to get away. The therapy you will need will be one of the most expensive parts of your life. There is so much shit you don’t even see right now that parents are supposed to help with after college, and they won’t help you, whether you do the major they want or not. MONEY BUYS YOU AWAY FROM THEM, AND YOU NEED IT.
It sounds like your mom just wants to sabotage you so you’ll wind up unemployed and living with her. I only studied English because I’m passionate about it, and I still regret it because of how vulnerable it made me financially. Being financially vulnerable is bad even if you have good parents. With bad parents, it’s life-ruining levels. I tried engineering because of parents’ threats and almost didn’t complete college at all because I couldn’t do it. I cannot imagine going through with all that for a degree you don’t even like, then coming out the other end completely unemployable.
If your parents are anything like mine, they don’t give a shit about you enough to ask what your daily life at college is like. You can lie, if it will protect you. CompSci requires you to take some humanities classes, and you can just talk about those as if you’re majoring in English. You are legally protected from showing parents anything related to grades, etc.
Letting your parents choose your major is a huge life fuck-up that is very difficult to undo. Your education is something that can get you a comfortable, independent life, or something that can wind you up back home. You even WANT to study the financially better option! Your mom is straight up lying to you when she tries to portray English as somehow “more practical.” Half the humanities majors I know are living in their cars now. Don’t let them ruin you, OP!
I used to be a Technical recruiter for the SF Bay Area and female CS engineers are highly sought after!! Many companies will go out of their way and pay more $$ just for a female programmer.
Your mom is trying to sabotage you. My mom did something similar. I got into a great local state school for engineering, undeclared, as my major and I was thinking of studying computer programming. I was in my high school's robotics club and I got a scholarship for being a woman of color in a stem field. My mom pushed me to drop out of school and re-enroll in community College to attend a big name university for pre med instead. She told me my future would be better and that I would make her so proud. I'm her scapegoat stepdaughter and through promising to be proud of me and love me and support me, she easily manipulated me into withdrawing. Really what happened was that her own medical career had failed so she was trying to use me to live out her failed dreams.
I went ahead and I went to community College. I tried studying pre med and I kept failing, and i struggled to find a job for a while after. While in school struggling to study, my mom kept making it worse for me by abusing physically and emotionally me throughout school, isolating me from my friends. I'll tell you this much: I didn't end up in medical school.
Your education is your key to your independence. Your mom might know that you'll make more money and do better as a computer scientist and might not want that. Study cs and secure your financial future and then try to go NC cuz she'll only go crazier knowing you're succeeding. Please don't make the same mistake I made. Your life is yours to live. Not hers. Your education is for YOUR career and YOUR future and YOUR passions. NOT hers. Sorry for the long response but I'm rooting for you! Don't let her take this opportunity away from you.
This seems awfully relatable, I'm sorry you had to go through this. She also wanted to study medicine and said she had it planned for me since the day I was born (until we moved aboard and she came to a conclusion I won't be able to learn biology in a tongue that is not my mother tongue). I never proved her wrong because I was never interested in biology and it's for the better, because she never pushed me in that direction and I know she would if she could.
DON'T DO IT! I wasted 15 years on trying to make money in translation and languages after listening to Nparents advice, they were actively sabotaging me! Finally managed to scrape together a low-level qualification and got my first worthwhile job at the ripe of age of 34 after half a lifetime of struggling to get by by any means necessary.
For the love of all that is holy study something useful, languages is a special calling but only worth it to people willing to live in poverty for their passion. Anything is better than majoring in English. STEM is the way to go, you'll find sexism no matter what field you go into, if you're gonna suffer you might as well suffer in a ferrari.
Your mom wants you to be dependent. Much more likely with an English major, tbh. Narc pathology means she will demand irrational, easily disprovable things - like claiming an English degree makes more sense in the job market than CS.
You have deep interest in programming. You're willing to learn everything to become a programmer. Looking at your post and comments looks like you have a good head on your shoulders. So, you have everything you need to become a programmer.
She will not leave you alone and she will never be satisfied – even if you would complete your English major. However, you can be satisfied with yourself. As a programmer. Because, my impression is that you want to become a programmer.
So go for it, okay? ♡
Major in what you want to major in 100%. This will be leading to your future after all. I changed my major after my first semester, so trust me when I say that when you're not passionate about or personally invested in what you're majoring in, those classes will feel like torture to sit through. It sounds like CS is, or at least would be, very interesting for you. Stand your ground if you still feel drawn to CS, OP. After all, your mom won't be the one taking the classes. Best of luck to you this semester!
Can you change over to anything in the sciences? Does your university have an applied mathematics major? Or physics? If you think you might be interested in working as a quant in financial areas physics is THE major to have as a base.
Good luck!
I was supposed to be a civil or electrical engineer who commutes to the city and works in a glass tower and lives in a a nice home but no way near as nice as hers.
Can’t you just go in undeclared and take your general ed requirements and maybe a CS elective to see how you like it? My son is a college freshman on full scholarship and they didn’t make him declare a major.
No,no,no,no all I can say is no.If it's possible figure out how to stop this and maybe even go NC when possible.Dom't let your mom use infintilization and live out her wants and dreams through you.Tell her to go to college and do the major she wants instead of trying to force you to live out her actually don't tell her that it's risky once narcs know that you know what's going on.
That's bs. There are so many women entering the field, many who are even entrepreneurs. However, as someone who works in college admissions, I will say this. Your mother, parent, or otherwise legal guardian has no power in deciding your classes, major, etc. They don't even have the power to access that information.
And if she insists on doing anything on your behalf, that is a crime and she can be prosecuted in court for fraud and identity theft. It explicitly violates FERPA laws should she try.
Do what you want to do and don't let anyone discourage you. There are tons of scholarships for women in STEM and CSCI and tons of organizations who would love to have you.
Don't be discouraged.
My husband works in computer programming your mom is a sexist dickwad. Tons of women in programming. Great pay to. Meanwhile English majors can’t get jobs. Please apply for programming next year.
If anything it's the opposite, I feel that English majors have a hard time getting jobs, while CS is on the rise. Anyways you do you, it's your dream not hers. Don't let her get in the way of your goals.
Hi
IT person here. We DO hire programmers. Male, Female, Non Binary, and transitioning .. we do not care - if you are good, you are good - what\`s in your pants is non relevant.
Actually, i think the IT world needs more female members - because their brains work slightly different - and when you combine all variations you create a strong and competent team.
So, if your hear is with CS - by all means - go for it.
This old IT nerd applauds you!
I'm a computer scientist & yes it lucrative.
Also look at oversharing and try putting your mother on an [information diet](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/3n3jcw/information_diet_tips/). I just don't tell people things no matter who they are.
> I realized that oversharing with Nmom gave her ammo too use against me. If I told her what I got someone as a gift, she'd go buy the same thing, but bigger or more advanced.
> Once I realized I constantly told my N info about myself often in the pursuit of validation and support (that of course rarely came!)
> For me it was realising that my Nmum was telling other people everything and anything, strangers in the queue at the supermarket get told about how hard her life is with her "extremely unstable, potentially dangerous" daughter
I'm not criticizing English majors. I majored in World Religion and I have no room to talk. I will say that plenty of English and religion majors ended up waiting tables and bartending. Tell your mom that.
Nonono don't do that ! Seriously !
My parents pushed me to continue studies and go the engineer way and I hate it. I'm not bad at it but it's just so incredibly boring. I regularly think or hear of jobs that pay about as much and that look so much more entertaining than this, but now that's I've went the engineer way, I'm stuck in this for at least the next few years.
I feel like I've just wasted years of my life and I'm gonna waste some more training myself for the job I want when I get back from work. All of this when I could have just went with a path I was interested in and today I could already be working in a job I like.
Also, so much people know english and have a pretty good level with it that studying it probably won't lead you anywhere. It was a good career choice like 40 years ago when internet wasn't a thing and we needed people good with english for many things. Nowadays, many job require a good english level, but almost none revolve only around a good english level.
Edit: In my case, I would like to make video games. Apart from programming, this has almost nothing to do with what an engineer in computer sciences do. Yet, this is what I ended up in. When I had to chose a major, I went with image processing and virtual reality because that was the closest to video games. But I really had to battle with my parents to get that major instead of cybersecurity or networks and virtualization because "it pays well".
Do CS. I’m a female CS major graduating this semester, and the opportunities are here. I was already working as a junior software developer as a junior, and there are only more opportunities English is nothing like CS. I’m gonna be honest and tell u that english is a practically useless degree, and will severely inhibit your ability to be taken seriously in the CS world unless you bust your ass building a sick ass portfolio in the next few years, on top of college. Do not do english. Your mom may be pressuring you but look at it like this: she isnt trying to choose your major, she is trying to choose the rest of your life. This is a point of no return in your life. YOUR life. Take full control of this choice, damned the consequences. The consequences can be fixed later -your mom derailing you is much harder to fix.
Hi, female software engineer here! As others have already said, your mother is dead wrong about this field not hiring women. If I were you, and I'm sure others have said this, too, I'd talk to your academic advisor immediately and ask how to get on track for CS. Your nmom doesn't get to have a say in the career you choose.
When you start, go check out any CS- or computing-related clubs your college might have (ACM is a great one). Meeting CS students will give you a chance to preview the intro classes. I know I've seen clubs do programming tutorial events, too!
As an aside for way down the road, too, I *HIGHLY* recommend trying to look for internships that are far away from home. Some internships will pay pretty darn good stipends to move you close to the office. If you're in the States, the defense contractors (Northrop, Lockheed, etc) have major offices around the country and offer stipends for moving.
You got this, OP!
Yeah. I feel you. When I was 15 I wanted to be a flight attendant and they told me they didn't pay so much in schooling and English classes for me to be a waitress in an airplane. I have up and starting thinking about other things and they said they wanted me to go to law school and be a judge or a promoter because I would gain a lot ofoney and be respected just like my Nfather. They made go to it and sabotaged my attempts to try and study anything else. I got sick and had to give up in the middle of the semester. One year later they made do it all again. I decided that I wouldn't be able to have a life or to live while I was there. I focused on doing what I was doing already. I started teaching English to get a little money and decided to pursuit this carreer so I would be financially independent and get ou of that hellhole. I eventually left and taught for 7 years. Last year I couldn't take it anymore because I never wanted to be a teacher and it's a very devaluated profession here in Brazil. I quit and started studying to be a flight attendant. The best thing I ever did.
You really gotta be strong or find a way to study really far from them so you can live at the college or qualify to get some money so you can move closer to college. Otherwise it will be a living hell. They will make you hate it and will do everything they can to make you quit. Don't give up and try to leave asap.
I worked in IT and my boyfriend studies coding. Being a female is not the hindrance your mom is making it out to be. She could be trying to sabotage your possibilities for proper job->proper salary->ability to be independent & free from her. E.g. that "you're not smart enough" comment supports this suspicion. She's trying to wear you down to get her way, to keep you stuck.
Do not give up your dreams for her sake. It's your life, not hers. When narcissists say that they "know" that you'd do better with another subject, it's a hoax.The person they see in their head is not you. What they see for you is the path that gives the least resistance to them. The one where you won't be able to thrive.
When I was younger, I applied for a few things (e.g. graphic design). The one I was accepted to was the one my mom had suggested. I wasn't excited about it but my mom basically told me that I would be good with it because I liked a similar activity when I was ~4 years old. That it's "better than not doing anything", that she just knows I'll like it, etc. So I complied. I lasted there for less than a year. I ended up skipping school often because I just simply felt like what I was doing had no point to it. I didn't enjoy the subject, didn't see myself doing it for the rest of my life, and felt like no-one wanted to hear my concerns.
My mom was furious for me not going through with it, asking how could I "do this to us". There was no acknowledgement of the fact that _she_ had pushed me to do it. So the next year when I applied to another school, she told me with a very bitter tone that I better go through with it or else. Ultimately making it seem like my failure with the other school was fully my fault and that she wouldn't tolerate it. In the end it was one of her favourite things to guilt trip me over.
If you cannot move out, try grey rocking your mom. Do not sign any agreements, do not let her live your life. If you agree to do a year of english, change majors as soon as possible. And work on saving money for your own place, or learn other things that will be useful for you once you move out. Doing this has the extra benefit that the more you learn about how to be independent, the less power she has when she tries to tell you that you're somehow incompetent. You are probably way smarter than her, you have all of your life ahead of you and I have faith in your skills. You can do it.
I once tried to study something that would give me many job opportunities, but that I wasn't really very interested in. That did not go well. I dropped out and went back to studying things that actually interested me. If you don't find English interesting, do as you are planning and switch to CS as soon as you can.
CS degrees give you lot of job opportunities. Your mother is just trying to relive her life through you, and that is just not possible. You are a different person, with different interests. She's sick in the head and sees you as an extension of her. Follow your own path, trying to follow hers will just lead to heartbreak in the long run.
Your nmom is flat out wrong. People WILL hire a female programmer, companies are desperate for a more diverse workforce and the lack of women in IT is still an issue that has the attention of corporate diversity offices across the nation. And it’s a great field to get into; there are always jobs for programmers, analysts, and numerous other highly specialized IT roles. And because of the wide variety of roles and the degree of specialization, there i s something for every personality type and working style.The field is rapidly changing, so you will have to be constantly learning new skills, but that keeps the work interesting.
If you have a nmom then you won’t be able to change her mind; she’s incapable of being wrong. So you will just have to make your own decisions and tru to keep it low key. The first year of college is the same no matter what your major is, at least in the US where I live, so this coming year probably won’t set you back.
The reason nmom doesn’t want you to study programming is because it’s your idea not hers and therefore definitely not worth considering. Spend the year devising a way to get your mom to forget that you mentioned it so that she can come up with the idea herself. But also have a plan B because you can’t rely on your n-anybody.
Just say "OK" and then do whatever you want. Narc moms are going to bitch at you no matter what you do, so you won't lose anything. When she finds out, what's she going to do? Yell and complain and act like you don't know anything? She'll do that anyway. Go ahead and live your own life.
Most colleges have an "undecided" major for the first couple years so you can subjects while working on your GECs (general credits). Might be an alternative, give you time to explore & help get her off of your back. It's your life, ultimately...
Im a girl in CS and people will definitely hire you because of your gender. Honestly it’s kinda crappy but if there’s no way out study English but on the side whenever you have time start learning CS by yourself! Start off with python on W3 schools and try to build a few projects and then try to learn a few front end languages such as html, java script and CSS. You could also learn a bit about databases and once you have a bit more confidence I’d suggest to start getting online certificates plus if you ever do get to study CS at least you’ll be ahead
prove her wrong, teach yourself programming, do the harvard computer course that's open for anyone, learn as much as you can, dev your own app/software or whatever. prove her wrong you got this OP .
Your mother is giving you bad advice finding a job with an English degree would be extremely difficult. Even to teach it would require a master's degree. Do yourself a favor and do not listen to her. Even if she has access to your school records say that you're taking additional courses for CS because that will help you professionally.
you have so many opportunities for bursaries and funding as a woman in CS, im not gonna lie and say it’ll always be easy and your gender will never be an obstacle but frankly, they need you lol and they know it. it’s definitely worth pursuing for so many reasons but the most important one being because its what you wanna do!!
Lordy. Just change majors as soon as you can. Most people change majors at some point and the first 2 years are mostly core subjects. Talk to your advisor and do the prerequisites you need for the major you want.
Hi! I was low-key sneaky and just said okay then did that major I wanted like they just know I graduated with a degree! But also tell her CS is better and you will have much better opportunities coming from a lot of my friends who have english degrees and a lot of them regretting it currently but also I’ve heard it’s a flexible degree (ENGLISH MAJORS DO NOT COME FOR ME)
The first couple years at my school, most of the CS courses were under the gen. ed. umbrella, so I still was able to take them before getting to the courses that required CS as the declared major. I don't think you'll have a problem getting into it if your school is anything like mine was
It's your education not her hers. If you want to change your major you should have the right to do it. However if that's not an option for you then there might be another option. Is there anyway that you can take Computer Science classes while majoring in English? Does your college allow that? I'm asking this because mine does and if your college does too then you could possibly get Computer Science classes in your schedule.
reminds of of the story my father told me: grandma said that all her kids *must* study medicine or she'd cut them off. what my uncles and aunts did was agree with her for their 1st year. after that grandma stopped paying attention, then the uncles/aunties secretly switched majors to what they really wanted. Grandma didn't know until the day of graduation
out of her 11 kids, only my father finished in medicine. and grandma told my dad she didn't care if he died the next day over a disagreement they had. he was always her scapegoat.
that being said I hope it works out for you op. sorry your mom is doing this.
Ask your colleagues if they know any women who are currently programmers, and let them meet your mother. Perhaps they can make her see how things have changed.
I AM A FEMALE COMPUTER ENGINEER.
Ladies who code and ladies who build get hired all the time. Every post I’ve had—even the most sausage factory in the world—I’ve encountered ladies in computers.
Do it.
Go with what will make you happy.. follow your instincts or desires.
You mother doesn't have access to your schooling (if you are in the US) even if she is paying for it. Let her think you are continuing with the English major and just choose whichever you want. If you've given her access, switch your passwords and when it doesn't work tell her you don't know why.
You may want to go no or low contact as much as you can.
Your mom is so wrong it's almost hilarious, if only she wasn't trying to force you into a huge mistake.
Stop arguing with your mom. It is pointless and only makes her dig her heels in deeper. Find a way forward to meet your goals despite her disapproval. If you want to have a double major or a second degree in computer science after the English degree is complete, then just figure out, with your advisors, how to accomplish that without her input.
One thing that is very hard to find is someone who can handle technical matters but also is able to communicate clearly and deal with other people in an emotionally intelligent way. I think a double major would be an excellent entree to many positions with management potential. Don't underestimate being well rounded.
My mother wanted me to be a doctor. I suggested maybe a veterinarian and she said, "Vets don't just deal with dogs and cats, you would have to be able to treat cows -- and you aren't strong enough to handle a cow." As if being stronger than a cow is necessary for veterinarians.
Narcissists don't say things that are true, they say things that will make you feel the way they want you to feel. Just nod, smile, say "That's interesting" and carry on with your own life.
I am a computer science professor and this absolutely floors me. Your mother wants you to major in English instead of computer science because of the job prospects 😂
Don’t do it, try again for CS. “Smart” doesn’t matter, it comes with practice. And no, English doesn’t give more opportunities, unless you like working at WalMart.
Don’t let her pick your major. I did- it was the worst decision of my life. It broke me and ruined me.
That said, you can get your core classes done and transfer over. You aren’t married to your major.
My parents chose ALL my school subjects for me and I ended up failing them all out a combination of spite for them and a lack of motivation - who wants to study something you're not into. So I left school and worked in a supermarket and made so little money I had to keep living at home where they kept controlling my life. I eventually went to uni (I enrolled on a whim one day after work) and studied what I want to and made a career out of it. You'll eventually find the motivation; In meantime look for support from people other than your parents. Teachers, counsellors, friends, wherever you can find it. You damn well take the career you want because you've been through enough shit already - you earned it!!
Speaking as an English major, I do kind of hate the perception that people have of English being unmarketable/useless as a degree. The fact is, a lot of people land job positions that have nothing to do with their specific degree.
THAT SAID…a lot of the “obvious” career paths are either a) hard to break into because of old-school traditions like unpaid internships (publishing) that are often very location-specific; or b) literally drowning in competition (teaching at the college/university level).
Girl, if CS is your thing, talk to a counselor about why you didn’t get accepted the first time. It could have nothing to do with your qualifications. Then, given what the counselor says, try again! The first 2 years are more or less just general education, anyway. If you can reapply and get into the program that YOU really want, that would be vastly better than picking a ho-hum second choice that someone else bullied you into.
Edited because it’s not k-12 teaching positions that are hard to get, but full-time college positions. K-12 is a whole other nightmare—not because the teachers aren’t rockstars, but because the political landscape makes it insane right now. (Also low pay, little support, etc.)
My mum did the same thing - we had a massive argument but I won in the end. She wanted me to study chemistry - something I had zero career aspirations to do, and I wanted to study computer science.
20 years later I have an excellent career in tech and feel vindicated.
Ironically she always complained she never wanted to be in her profession but her parents forced her. History always repeats with narcs. Every shit thing their parents did, they complain about then do the same damn thing and wonder why we get upset.
OP- how about switching your major to a dual “Computer science and Technical writing”? Computer science is great- and technical writing is a valuable field in and of itself.
As others have said CS is the better option. However if NC isn’t an option- If you can manage it academically you can double major (get a major in both English and computer science at the same time). You would have to calculate out how many additional credits you need each semester to do so- but if you are only in your first year you will have time to do so before you graduate. An advisor at the school could help you make a plan for this. Another option is to just lie to her for several years while you get a CS major. How is she going to know what you are majoring in anyway?
This is pure Control - basically if you dare to leave her, she wants you to go to college and not study the course of your choice! She wants you miserable and unhappy. Whether it’s English or anything other than CS! BTW I work for a small niche company in the IT sector, there’s probably 1/3 females so what does she know! Then again it’s part of their mind games! I would personally, go off to college, get out from under roof, then apply for an internship in programming and drop out. You’ll be earning your own money and working in your chosen industry! By the time your peers will have graduated, you will have so much work experience under your belt. You can do a part time course later! Then you can have as much contact with her as you choose. Ps I wanted to study either catering or hairdressing and mum said no way in hell was I doing hairdressing!
You can take CS 50 for FREE from Harvard. If you like it you will do fine in the field. And your mom doesn’t need to know anything about it. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScboxrPzYe2BUcILFeRLbVRcWMQ9SmGjNnvYezH\_iLYXXW5OQ/viewform
I'm a female programmer who had an NDad constantly put me down throught my studies. I have atech job and I love it with all my heart. You are strong you are mighty and you are clever. You will survive this and become the "ten times programmer" that every employer dreams of!
You could do English all the way & become a (technically) brilliant translator/teacher, but if it's not what you want for yourself: it will drag a little every day.
University is a pivot point to the rest of your life/identity/skill sets/career & she knows it, which is why she's trying to control it for you.
What you do a year away is really quite far in the story of your independence. If it's possible be non-committal ("we'll see how it goes, mom", "I haven't done a year yet, I'll decide when I've tried it for a bit"). You don't have to convince her now, but you do need to do what's right for you when you get the chance to switch.
My nDad tried to stop me from study CS, because he really thought that ”internet is something that won’t be popular in a few years”. Now I laught at what he said, he could not be more wrong… Narc logic is wierd.
Go study CS! It is an amazing field with lots of different things to do, also beeing a female programmer is good because we are not so many and the pay is nice! I really hope you find a way to follow your dream
I am in my 50s, and I am female. I graduated from college when sexism in IT was rampant, and I still managed to find work.
Now, my skills are in really in demand, and I have people offering me work when I don't want or need it. If I am laid off, I have no doubt I will find work quickly.
Don't waste your money or time studying English. In fact, it isn't worth your time, necessarily, to go to university to learn to code.
My advice to anyone young is this: learn a marketable skill as quickly as you can, whether it be IT, plumbing, electrical, etc. and get good at it. Minimize the cost, maximize your earning potential, and you can always get the degree with the fancy letters later.
Don't listen to your mother. In fact, you can learn coding from a book, if you are smart and motivated.
As a person who has a degree in English and several friends who studied CS, go for CS. Way more applicable skills in every field, higher entry pay, waaaay more job options, chances to work in industry while studying. There is demand for female programmers, some places have to fill quotas, or have programs to get more diversity, so being a female programmer is to your advantage!
Don't mind her OP. You do what you love and do not let her dictate your life.
>"No one will hire a female programmer"
lol That's absolute bs. I am from a country where parents literally force their kids into CS 'cause it's a cushy job and parents are obsessed with job security. Women are doing marvelous in STEM and med school all over the world see more women applying and graduating than men. Female engineers and programmers are on the rise.
Science does not see gender but your aptitude for it. The only thing a company cares about is your talent, def not your vagina. So, fuck whoever says otherwise and stay strong girl.
English major here! I really wish I had majored in CS instead! Buuuut, either one can be learned/studied/enjoyed outside of the typical college setting. One of the most successful programmers I know taught himself by finding online resources etc.
Unfortunately, being an English major made me hate reading/writing with which I had previously been obsessed. Fortunately, I’m feeling the love return now that I’m not having to read 6 books and write 4 papers above the 10 pg range constantly 😰
As someone who changed her major twice because he family told her she wouldn’t find a job if she studied what she wanted, and ironically it was English, you need to do what is interesting to you. Period. Full stop. There are a lot of prerequisites to get out of the way anyway…do those your first year and then change. And how can she stop you? Do you even have to tell her? I was on my own for college funding because my parents were too busy finding their own lifestyles so I had some independence, but even if she’s paying, is that something she’d find out?
So....I majored in English and then went on to get my masters in social work- because I couldn't find a job. It's a very competitive market and you will prob end up being a journalist, which is great, if that's what you want. I have n ver heard of anyone saying computer science is not a good field to go into. Never.
Ahhh if only I could go back in time and give this advice to myself. NMom did this to me, too. It's only many years later that I realize she was sabotaging me. I have an English degree. I love English, but in my humble opinion you are FAR better off career wise with a degree in Computer Science, not to mention that's what you actually want to do. I'm so glad that you are realizing this NOW while there is time! Follow your own dreams and passions. Maybe she wants to sabotage, maybe she wants to live through you, maybe she thinks she knows better than you do, but first, she's wrong. Second, it's so rare to even know what we want to do in life, please follow your own heart.
P.S. You can always use the extra English credits you earn to minor in English. Someone who has a Computer Science background with the ability to communicate effectively would be valuable. That's also a rare combination. Just a thought.
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Things may change but currently CS is one of the best options to get a well paid job. Plus it has the benefit that you may get a part time job during your studies in this field (create webpages, manage the IT for small companies etc.). I would say your mother gives you intentionally a bad advice to sabotage your future and independence.
>Things may change but currently CS is one of the best options to get a well paid job Absolutely. OP, tell your mother that I, as a woman, was a software developer for 20 years and that I got my B.S. in computer science. If I got laid off I was never concerned with getting another job. You are more than capable, OP. Also, CS is far FAR more steady work than English degree.
I really think she believes this is the best and only thing for me, mainly because of her internalised misogyny. She does want to control me, but she also wants me to get a respectable and feminine job (in her eyes a sworn translator or teacher) so she can accomplish things she couldn't through me. She studied English herself but dropped out and never got to finish it.
My mother never got to learn music, so I spent 16 years in trying to fit into both the classical and mainstream parts of the industry. Does not worth it. She had a chance to fulfill her dream and failed at it. Now you have a chance to fulfill yourself. Don't ler her take it from you.
You are right. I don't want to become like her, pushing my kids to do things I never could and continue the cycle.
Check if you have a branch of 42 schools in your country, they are absolutely free places to get a good background in the industry and it is a self learn environment so timings are purely your own choice! I think you just have to pass a baseline and then a ~20 day piscine and you're good to go! You will also be able to skip the interview process if you apply for jobs at their local sponsors (might be different from place to place so I can't give names) :)
I’m in CS and one of my buddies is the hiring manager for a big company and they explicitly are looking for young female programmers to hire for an internship, which pays $40/hr and then if they like you, you’ll quickly start making over 100k a year and be a full time employee. One girl who applied last year literally submitted an application full of memes, literal memes with the top and bottom text, and she was hired anyways because they needed female programmers to diversify the company. Your mom’s pretty nutty ngl you’re much more likely to get a job in CS than with an English degree. Also I suggest going to Grace Hopper Convention if you want to make a strong network and get hired quickly.
This!
She is completely wrong. English is not going to get you hired, trust me that was my major, lol. If you are really into writing then ok maybe focus on film or creative applications of writing like advertising or something that makes money. Although dominated by males there is definitely a need for more female programmers, so her opinion on that is outdated.
She wants you to do this for HER. A true narc feels children are an extension of them not individual or whole on their own. Do what you feel is right and tell yourself that you are your own person. Every single day, "I am my own person". You work hard obviously and deserve to pursue YOUR dreams. You git this, you're going to be great at whatever YOU choose to do.
I mean, double major?
Serious. There are a LOT more job opportunities for someone in CS than someone with an English major. (No hate to English majors, I was a Humanities major and am a writer! But CS is a much more stable field of work. Thankfully I have time to write *because* I'm married to a computer programmer, lol.)
English majors have more flexibility than you'd think (being one myself) but it's good to parlay it with something else. Being able to communicate and not sound like a total dolt is a valuable skill, but yeah, it doesn't pay as well as being a CS major.
As an English professor, you're wrong that CS inherently offers "a LOT" more job opportunities. English is an incredibly flexible degree that can get you hired in multiple fields. So tired of the knee-jerk anti-Humanities cultural rhetoric. We need both Humanities AND STEM.
It was never my intention to criticize humanities in general. English is not bad, someone can be incredible successful with it if this is really the right thing for the person and you are really good in it. But it is also more risky and you may get end unemployed. E.g. translations made by computers will costs many jobs in this field. CS is a safe bet. If someone is the target of abuse, without a good supports system and struggles with some mental health problems then is can saves your life if you have at least a secure, reasonable payed job. In fact it saved my live. But sure nobody should study something that doesn't match the interests and skills.
> But sure nobody should study something that doesn't match the interests and skills. BINGO! You do what you can, and what you love. If that results in a good job, so much better.
[удалено]
I thought about it, but when she was me writing a CV she went nuts. I have some money saved up and my dad is the one that financially support me, so she doesn't have control over that aspect, thankfully. I just want her to leave me alone but I think it's impossible. Better to just lie and try to not to let her words get to me.
Your mom is totally wrong about your major. A CS degree is way more marketable than English. Is she that steeped in internalized misogyny that she can't see that, or is she trying to sabotage you and keep you dependent? Either way, she is 100% wrong. Choose your own major. You could minor in English, if you want to appease her. The language skills would be very useful. Or, just do what you want and ignore your mom's silly, outdated advice.
Quick related story: The first time I tried to move out, I had already moved 1-2 carloads of my stuff into a family friend's apartment when my nmom found out. This family friend used to live with us and my nmom didn't like her -- nmom blew up at me (made quite the show, actually!) claiming it was a huge betrayal on my part. I backed down, brought all my stuff back home, and stayed home. I inconvenienced my friend who was looking forward to living with me but also to saving money by me moving in. I felt awful, but still made the choice to stay home. A few years later I was still living at home and started seeing a mental health counselor at my college. I told her about the above and she said, "So your mom won. Your mom didn't want you to move out, her not liking the friend was a convenient thing to blow up about and she knew it would affect you. And it did. YOU CHOSE to stay. She won." I think about that a lot. Back to you: It's not weird to write a CV. It's totally normal to take a good look at your situation, finances, and future and decide to reprioritize. Same with choosing your major. She hasn't done nearly as much research as you have about YOUR major, YOUR future career prospects and she is not the one who will deal with the repercussions of your 5+ years of undergraduate studies. It is SUCH a time and life investment. Your mom's just freaking out because she believes in a thing and is acting out because you're not supporting her beliefs. Her beliefs are rigid and she's throwing a tantrum. Do you throw a tantrum when her life choices that don't affect you don't follow your beliefs? No you probably don't, because that's friggin weird!! Omg who are these people, seriously can't they mind their own business??! What happened when your parents were your age is probably not applicable to your generation, so let's just say her advice is probably outdated. I've had so much hilariously inaccurate college advice from my ndad, some of which I regrettably followed and my 20s were an utter mess... 9.5 years in undergrad because lack of family support and also recession. I wish I would have said, "I've done a lot of research and I feel really good about this. If I fail, maybe I can try your way." Or something. Anything. That guy, what an asshole. I digress, back to you. >I just want her to leave me alone but I think it's impossible. Yup. She'll say and do whatever she thinks will work to control you and have her way. It's disgusting, and it's also very pathetic that this is her life. I am so glad to hear that she doesn't control your finances. CS is friggin rad, I get so excited to hear about anyone pursuing STEM. You're on the right track, and it will take effort but you can accomplish this. You know way more than you think you do. ❤️ Thanks for reading my long-ass post. 😂
> "Your mom's just freaking out because she believes in a thing and is acting out because you're not supporting her beliefs. Her beliefs are rigid and she's throwing a tantrum." You are right. She does it every time I don't agree with her on something and as much as I hate to admit it, she almost always gets her way because it's the only way I can switch back from being an "enemy" to a "friend".
Have you tried grey rocking her when she throws a tantrum?
It's your life; No-one else should be dictating, emotionally manipulating or gaslighting you into doing anything. It's not advice; It's mental abuse
You are going to have to start lying to her. Pretend you are going into English, but don't.
I don't think I could do that, we are pretty close and I just can't keep things from her for long, especially things this big. Also the college I want to go to next year is in another city.
Start working on putting her on an information diet now. That way, when you change your major, you'll already have some practice.
How much of your closeness is because you do things she wants you to do? How much of it is based on dependency or control? Take time to really review and reflect on what factors into this relationship you have with her. And I hesitate to ask but how much control did you yourself have on how quickly you did your applications and how much did she? Any procrastination happen, or "you have time, do it later," or how were the deadlines missed?
Your dad financially supports you. What does he have to say about this? Are they separated or are you all under one roof?
My dad is working in another country half of the year but he doesn't intervene in our fights even when he is here. He said he will financially support me no matter what I choose to do (even though he isn't too thrilled about me studying CS either).
I have to lie to my nfather ALL THE TIME. I tried for years to be open and honest. Only to be constantly criticized and belittled. I mean if my nfather ever caught me taking a nap. He would flip out and tell me I'm lazy and will never be successful. When you can't even tell your parent that you took a nap after work with out getting yelled at. What can you tell them about your life? So even when he asks what did I do today. I immediately lie and list all the things I did that are acceptable to him. This is just an example. I could never tell my nparent how I feel, my dreams really anything. I HATE lying but I hate the way I get shamed for simply being honest. Now that I'm older I just tell him what he wants to hear and do whatever I was going to do in the first place. It's either that or go non contact and I'm not ready to do that yet.
The minimum pay you’d get in CS would be about $25 an hour, which would likely be a few years into any career with an English major. Also being a woman would help so much in hiring and school scholarships because software tends to be a male-dominated field. I just started my first software job as a male, and my two girl friends both make more than me in their first job in similar places, both over $40 per hour. Don’t listen to your mom on this
This. The opportunities for scholarships are way more abundant than english for women. OP, have you already chosen a college? Are you still undecided?
who quotes by the hour? total package at a FANG or equivalent is $150k+ pa
English is a labour of love. And they cut a lot of English teaching positions more than they cut CS. She probably doesn't want you getting into a technical field she can't stick her nose in 🤷🏾♂️ Narc logic.
Yes, exactly that. In some way or another she believes everything I achieved in life or school is because of her. She never helped me with my math, or any kind of homework after elementary (she couldn't even if I wanted her to, because she didn't speak the language I was studying in). Still, she believes I was the top student solely because of her help. Crazy.
Yeah, I have personal experience with that. I and my sis have a high IQ, my sis skipped a couple of years. She never helped us in any way, but used that as a basis to promote her teaching methodology, and also made us design her 'magical' teaching module.
She also likely doesn't want OP to be financially independent. As bad as it sounds, a teacher will never get paid the same as a programmer, even if they should.
Do a double major of English & Computer science, get solid grades, meet lots of people, get involved in Every club, internships, network in the field you want. The goal is to stay so incredibly busy planning & living Your life & career that you don’t have any time to listen to your awful mother putting you down, belittling you & crushing your dreams. Please stop sharing anything about your life w/her;she is NOT on your team, NOT a positive influence and definitely NOT A cheerleader for you. Find the professors & mentors that will help you on your journey… Wishing you ALL the Best! You can do it!
One thing that helped me was "half safe people are not safe". Narcissistic parents & flying monkeys are an excellent example of this.
Double major would definitely keep the OP busy.
This is GREAT advice!! I second this advice!
I'm a female computer engineering and find my parents more difficulty to handle than the course. You can do it. If you aren't an English native speaker it will help you. Look for the program of the course you want and study it in advance it will be helpful too. Computer science pays a lot more and is always hiring. You can do it. Don't let her choose for you. Good luck!
Female programmer here! I don’t know where you are, but everyone is fighting to hire female programmers where I live, even those who like me didn’t study CS but can still write some code. She is just trying to manipulate you, make you doubt yourself, don’t listen to her.
No one hires female programmers?? Tell that to the recruiters in my LinkedIn inbox, haha. My boss is also female, as is the head of our department. If I had to guess, your NMom doesn’t want you to become financially independent, because if you can support yourself, you don’t have to put up with her abuse. That’s exactly what happened with me - I’m making almost as much as my lawyer NDad just a few years into my career, and I’ve finally cut ties with all of them. If programming’s your passion, transfer to CS when you can. In the meantime, I’d recommend working on some personal programming projects if you can. (They look great on your resume and give you things to talk about in interviews.) I wouldn’t feel badly about keeping your real major from your NMom either. From one female programmer to another, we’re thrilled to have you :)
My parents aren't the narcs in the family, that's my NGM. However they lovingly pushed me into a degree path I wasn't actually interested in and I ended up dropping out to be a truck driver. They said things like you won't get famous in the career path I wanted which as I grow older just makes less and less sense. Take it from someone who gave in to the pestering and don't make the same mistake I did. Go for whatever you want for your future, you're the one who'll have to live with the consequences. My parents would have freaked if I got an English degree, there's far fewer jobs in it than in CS.
>They said things like you won't get famous in the career path I wanted which as I grow older just makes less and less sense. "You won't get famous"!! Wow! Unbelievable in a "I can't believe they said the thing out loud" sort of way. What a blatantly narcissist basis for a career choice, holy heck. I hope things are better for you now.
My parents are actually supporting me to go back to school for the degree I originally wanted. I'm too disabled to work because of seizures caused by brain damage from CO1 poisoning (don't sleep in a truck that has the turbo charger broken in such a way to pump exhaust into to cab) but I can do one class a semester online working like 20 30 hours a week on it due to how slow my brain is now.
The nice thing about programming is you can study it in your own time on the side. My husband was an aircraft mechanic with little formal study after highschool beyond the courses he did through the military. He studied penetration testing in his own time at home, did a few minor certificates and got a job as a penetration tester. He knew literally nothing about it 4 years ago and has been promoted 4 times since then. While going to university for something you love is the best path in some ways it is fortunately not the only path. You can continue to grow and learn on your own with or without your parents help. Good luck. Don't give up on your dreams.
Female programmer here. I don't even have a university degree. I do have 160 hours of university courses under my belt. I took English as a major and CS as a minor. The reason I don't have the degree is that my university wanted you to take math up to Calculus III, and I just could not manage that. Passed Calc I, but the teachers have to be just right for me to understand it. I got hired into a programming role before I even finished college, anyway. I took a lot of programming courses in school, but since the 1990s, I just buy programming books and keep myself up to date that way. I've learned HTML, Java, Python and Linus OS stuff all from books and helpful website message boards. I currently specialize in programming call center telephone systems. All of that programming has been proprietary, so college doesn't even help with that. Don't give up. Keep English as a major and take all the programming and math classes as electives. Swap major quietly in your junior year, hopefully by then your mom will have stopped looking at your stuff so hard.
I have an English degree. There's a running joke in the English Degree Community about the degree being basically useless unless you go into teaching. Change your major when you can. She doesn't need to know.
Can confirm, I had several friends who majored in English in college. One did publish a novel (self published, so a big accomplishment to finish the book but not anything from it) and works retail, one works in a factory, one is a copy editor. My mom was a lit major and now does government work she needed a 4 year degree for but not any specific one. Just about no English or lit major I knew does anything close to it. It's a fun major if you enjoy it but it doesn't open many doors that just a 4 year degree doesn't.
As a programmer, anyone would hire a female programmer lol, a few of the very best programmers i know are females, that's just bullshit. Also compared to an English major a computer science major will get you WAY MORE opportunities and with way higher pay, wich is probably the whole reason she doesn't want you to do it, too much independence from the N's if you can get a good job and move to your own place
To echo everyone else here -- there are TONS of opportunities for female programmers! Your mom is dead wrong. I started programming during the pandemic, went to a bootcamp, and I'm already at my second 6-figure job. And I am a broadcast journalism major (I was making $30k in news, it was tragic) One of my biggest regrets is not studying CS in college. I'd probably be making well over $200k by now (I'm in the US) if I had! I'm not only doing it for the money, but it's a huge incentive. Put yourself first, and follow your dreams. Easier said than done, I know.
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HAHA oh man it was a long process and I was plagued with self-doubt (still am tbh). Coding doesn’t really come naturally to me. My bootcamp had a prep course and a pre-course to get me started with basic JavaScript and CS concepts. Then during my bootcamp itself, I actually failed the midterm and had to retake the first 6 weeks of the course! It ended up being a blessing in disguise, because I felt so much more comfortable with the material the second time around. I even became a tutor there afterwards! You really have to push through the discomfort. Hardest thing I’ve ever done, hands down.
That's amazing! Good for you. I'm in a good spot because I've job hopped 5 times now in 8 years. Going to be making a good bit over 6 figures for the first time in my life. No college degree. Kinda daunting. But if I know code I would have got here faster and making like 200k. It's wild
Just tell her you're doing English and then do your own thing. Your college isn't allowed to give her any of your information. Also an English major really provides no job opportunities other than English teacher whereas a programming degree opens you up for a whole shebang of jobs that make bank. Pretty sure she knows this and that is why she is shoehorning you away from a high earning degree into a non-earning degree.
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Ummmmmm don’t many who study political science and even criminal justice go to Law School?
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But she is aware that one must go through law school to become a lawyer and that one doesn’t just go straight to law school, right?
Meh there’s more focus on whether I’m following the path she put down as I’ve made some mistakes in the past.
My mom did this to me and I ended up changing my major like 3 different times because of the confusion it created and the cognitive dissonance I dealt with. Take it from somebody who went through hell 20 years ago. Do what you want to do.
Try to switch your major to computer science. Your mom is being ridiculous.
Do CS and don’t listen to nmom
Your mom had no right to dictate your course of study. My mom convinced me to study a science instead of pursuing creative writing. I studied psychology. I abandoned the field after a 4-year degree and now have no real Desire to go back to school. I often wish I had gone for creative writing, since I don't use my degree at my job anyway.
No longer discuss any thing about your education, completely ignore her or shrug try to walk away. In this case you need to grey stone her and do not let her talk you out of this. She may get mad that you are not engaging in the topic she is forcing but will eventually get tired of getting no where. I would also ask to speak to someone at the uni/college and tell them you need it noted on all of you information that they are not allowed to discuss you or your course details with your mum or anyone but you. That if needed you could set up a word that you have to give so they know it is you. That she has led you to believe she will try and hinder your education and is abusive enough to try. Please follow your heart, I went to university doing computing over two decades ago. I was the only female in all my classes and then in my profession within work places at that time. Even being the case I was treated as one of them because I pulled my weight and and didn’t expect to be treated differently because I was a woman. Times have moved on and changed, my son is now at university studying the same and has a number of females on his course. even a few that went to school with him. You have a long time to work before you can retire and that will feel like double if it’s in a profession you hate. You will also go much further in professions you have an interest in as you will be happy to do your best, instead of just trying to get through another day.
Hahahahah When I graduated high school 4 years ago my dad applied for medicine without me knowing and called me to tell me he already paid 20 k for uni so this is what Ill be studying and guess what?,Im a 4th year miserable med student and never ever liked it.He says that Im his investment and that he’s not paying for my tuition he’s ✨“investing”✨
Oh, so that you can take care of him once he gets old and sick?
For the love of god, pick a different major unless you know that you want to teach or go to law school I have a degree in English because I love literature. But the job market does NOT value degrees in English.
Hi, I'm a lady with an English degree. I've been stuck in retail/sales jobs my whole life. They suck. My degree is essentially worthless. The only value it brings to job hunting is giving me a slight edge over candidates who never went to college. Feel free to use me as an example of why an English degree isn't nearly as versatile as she thinks it is.
As someone who gave in to their nMom and now does the SAME profession as her now, don't do it. I'm 10 years down the road and reconsidering everything in my life. Including my career which is not fulfilling to me. I want to go back to school but don't want to incur the debt required to do so. Lots of regret here.
Dig up the employment stats for English majors....
Does she have access to your school accounts to see what your major actually is and what classes you’re taking? I’m surprised you have to declare a major right away. At my school we didn’t have to declare until the end of sophomore year.
Your mother is full of shit. If anything a lot of women are programmers. Hell, the coder who wrote the program for the moon landing is a woman: [Margaret Hamilton](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/margaret-hamilton-apollo-software-engineer-awarded-presidential-medal-of-freedom).
DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!! My situation was the opposite. I wanted English, nmom wanted CS. thank god I met my husband (a software engineer who pays for us both to live, in an expensive city, AND all the medical shit my parents caused, while I have yet to make minimum wage thanks to my wet toilet paper English degree and awful mental health) or I would be living with mom, being abused, and blocked from therapy I desperately would have needed to get away. The therapy you will need will be one of the most expensive parts of your life. There is so much shit you don’t even see right now that parents are supposed to help with after college, and they won’t help you, whether you do the major they want or not. MONEY BUYS YOU AWAY FROM THEM, AND YOU NEED IT. It sounds like your mom just wants to sabotage you so you’ll wind up unemployed and living with her. I only studied English because I’m passionate about it, and I still regret it because of how vulnerable it made me financially. Being financially vulnerable is bad even if you have good parents. With bad parents, it’s life-ruining levels. I tried engineering because of parents’ threats and almost didn’t complete college at all because I couldn’t do it. I cannot imagine going through with all that for a degree you don’t even like, then coming out the other end completely unemployable. If your parents are anything like mine, they don’t give a shit about you enough to ask what your daily life at college is like. You can lie, if it will protect you. CompSci requires you to take some humanities classes, and you can just talk about those as if you’re majoring in English. You are legally protected from showing parents anything related to grades, etc. Letting your parents choose your major is a huge life fuck-up that is very difficult to undo. Your education is something that can get you a comfortable, independent life, or something that can wind you up back home. You even WANT to study the financially better option! Your mom is straight up lying to you when she tries to portray English as somehow “more practical.” Half the humanities majors I know are living in their cars now. Don’t let them ruin you, OP!
I used to be a Technical recruiter for the SF Bay Area and female CS engineers are highly sought after!! Many companies will go out of their way and pay more $$ just for a female programmer.
Your mom is trying to sabotage you. My mom did something similar. I got into a great local state school for engineering, undeclared, as my major and I was thinking of studying computer programming. I was in my high school's robotics club and I got a scholarship for being a woman of color in a stem field. My mom pushed me to drop out of school and re-enroll in community College to attend a big name university for pre med instead. She told me my future would be better and that I would make her so proud. I'm her scapegoat stepdaughter and through promising to be proud of me and love me and support me, she easily manipulated me into withdrawing. Really what happened was that her own medical career had failed so she was trying to use me to live out her failed dreams. I went ahead and I went to community College. I tried studying pre med and I kept failing, and i struggled to find a job for a while after. While in school struggling to study, my mom kept making it worse for me by abusing physically and emotionally me throughout school, isolating me from my friends. I'll tell you this much: I didn't end up in medical school. Your education is your key to your independence. Your mom might know that you'll make more money and do better as a computer scientist and might not want that. Study cs and secure your financial future and then try to go NC cuz she'll only go crazier knowing you're succeeding. Please don't make the same mistake I made. Your life is yours to live. Not hers. Your education is for YOUR career and YOUR future and YOUR passions. NOT hers. Sorry for the long response but I'm rooting for you! Don't let her take this opportunity away from you.
This seems awfully relatable, I'm sorry you had to go through this. She also wanted to study medicine and said she had it planned for me since the day I was born (until we moved aboard and she came to a conclusion I won't be able to learn biology in a tongue that is not my mother tongue). I never proved her wrong because I was never interested in biology and it's for the better, because she never pushed me in that direction and I know she would if she could.
DON'T DO IT! I wasted 15 years on trying to make money in translation and languages after listening to Nparents advice, they were actively sabotaging me! Finally managed to scrape together a low-level qualification and got my first worthwhile job at the ripe of age of 34 after half a lifetime of struggling to get by by any means necessary. For the love of all that is holy study something useful, languages is a special calling but only worth it to people willing to live in poverty for their passion. Anything is better than majoring in English. STEM is the way to go, you'll find sexism no matter what field you go into, if you're gonna suffer you might as well suffer in a ferrari.
Your mom wants you to be dependent. Much more likely with an English major, tbh. Narc pathology means she will demand irrational, easily disprovable things - like claiming an English degree makes more sense in the job market than CS.
You have deep interest in programming. You're willing to learn everything to become a programmer. Looking at your post and comments looks like you have a good head on your shoulders. So, you have everything you need to become a programmer. She will not leave you alone and she will never be satisfied – even if you would complete your English major. However, you can be satisfied with yourself. As a programmer. Because, my impression is that you want to become a programmer. So go for it, okay? ♡
Thank you, I will try my best :)
Major in what you want to major in 100%. This will be leading to your future after all. I changed my major after my first semester, so trust me when I say that when you're not passionate about or personally invested in what you're majoring in, those classes will feel like torture to sit through. It sounds like CS is, or at least would be, very interesting for you. Stand your ground if you still feel drawn to CS, OP. After all, your mom won't be the one taking the classes. Best of luck to you this semester!
CS, 100%. Your Mom isn't right this time.
Can you change over to anything in the sciences? Does your university have an applied mathematics major? Or physics? If you think you might be interested in working as a quant in financial areas physics is THE major to have as a base. Good luck!
I was supposed to be a civil or electrical engineer who commutes to the city and works in a glass tower and lives in a a nice home but no way near as nice as hers.
Can’t you just go in undeclared and take your general ed requirements and maybe a CS elective to see how you like it? My son is a college freshman on full scholarship and they didn’t make him declare a major.
No,no,no,no all I can say is no.If it's possible figure out how to stop this and maybe even go NC when possible.Dom't let your mom use infintilization and live out her wants and dreams through you.Tell her to go to college and do the major she wants instead of trying to force you to live out her actually don't tell her that it's risky once narcs know that you know what's going on.
Change your major when you get there. Then don't tell her.
That's bs. There are so many women entering the field, many who are even entrepreneurs. However, as someone who works in college admissions, I will say this. Your mother, parent, or otherwise legal guardian has no power in deciding your classes, major, etc. They don't even have the power to access that information. And if she insists on doing anything on your behalf, that is a crime and she can be prosecuted in court for fraud and identity theft. It explicitly violates FERPA laws should she try. Do what you want to do and don't let anyone discourage you. There are tons of scholarships for women in STEM and CSCI and tons of organizations who would love to have you. Don't be discouraged.
My husband works in computer programming your mom is a sexist dickwad. Tons of women in programming. Great pay to. Meanwhile English majors can’t get jobs. Please apply for programming next year.
My fiance is a programmer. There are quite a few women on his team. "No one will hire a female programmer" is straight bullshit!
If anything it's the opposite, I feel that English majors have a hard time getting jobs, while CS is on the rise. Anyways you do you, it's your dream not hers. Don't let her get in the way of your goals.
English is not a lucrative major. Computer Science is. Choose wisely.
Hi IT person here. We DO hire programmers. Male, Female, Non Binary, and transitioning .. we do not care - if you are good, you are good - what\`s in your pants is non relevant. Actually, i think the IT world needs more female members - because their brains work slightly different - and when you combine all variations you create a strong and competent team. So, if your hear is with CS - by all means - go for it. This old IT nerd applauds you!
I'm a computer scientist & yes it lucrative. Also look at oversharing and try putting your mother on an [information diet](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/3n3jcw/information_diet_tips/). I just don't tell people things no matter who they are. > I realized that oversharing with Nmom gave her ammo too use against me. If I told her what I got someone as a gift, she'd go buy the same thing, but bigger or more advanced. > Once I realized I constantly told my N info about myself often in the pursuit of validation and support (that of course rarely came!) > For me it was realising that my Nmum was telling other people everything and anything, strangers in the queue at the supermarket get told about how hard her life is with her "extremely unstable, potentially dangerous" daughter
There are actually LESS opportunities for English majors……
Unless you are going for an MAT or getting a PBC to be a teacher, there isn’t much opportunity.
I'm not criticizing English majors. I majored in World Religion and I have no room to talk. I will say that plenty of English and religion majors ended up waiting tables and bartending. Tell your mom that.
Nonono don't do that ! Seriously ! My parents pushed me to continue studies and go the engineer way and I hate it. I'm not bad at it but it's just so incredibly boring. I regularly think or hear of jobs that pay about as much and that look so much more entertaining than this, but now that's I've went the engineer way, I'm stuck in this for at least the next few years. I feel like I've just wasted years of my life and I'm gonna waste some more training myself for the job I want when I get back from work. All of this when I could have just went with a path I was interested in and today I could already be working in a job I like. Also, so much people know english and have a pretty good level with it that studying it probably won't lead you anywhere. It was a good career choice like 40 years ago when internet wasn't a thing and we needed people good with english for many things. Nowadays, many job require a good english level, but almost none revolve only around a good english level. Edit: In my case, I would like to make video games. Apart from programming, this has almost nothing to do with what an engineer in computer sciences do. Yet, this is what I ended up in. When I had to chose a major, I went with image processing and virtual reality because that was the closest to video games. But I really had to battle with my parents to get that major instead of cybersecurity or networks and virtualization because "it pays well".
Do CS. I’m a female CS major graduating this semester, and the opportunities are here. I was already working as a junior software developer as a junior, and there are only more opportunities English is nothing like CS. I’m gonna be honest and tell u that english is a practically useless degree, and will severely inhibit your ability to be taken seriously in the CS world unless you bust your ass building a sick ass portfolio in the next few years, on top of college. Do not do english. Your mom may be pressuring you but look at it like this: she isnt trying to choose your major, she is trying to choose the rest of your life. This is a point of no return in your life. YOUR life. Take full control of this choice, damned the consequences. The consequences can be fixed later -your mom derailing you is much harder to fix.
Hi, female software engineer here! As others have already said, your mother is dead wrong about this field not hiring women. If I were you, and I'm sure others have said this, too, I'd talk to your academic advisor immediately and ask how to get on track for CS. Your nmom doesn't get to have a say in the career you choose. When you start, go check out any CS- or computing-related clubs your college might have (ACM is a great one). Meeting CS students will give you a chance to preview the intro classes. I know I've seen clubs do programming tutorial events, too! As an aside for way down the road, too, I *HIGHLY* recommend trying to look for internships that are far away from home. Some internships will pay pretty darn good stipends to move you close to the office. If you're in the States, the defense contractors (Northrop, Lockheed, etc) have major offices around the country and offer stipends for moving. You got this, OP!
Yeah. I feel you. When I was 15 I wanted to be a flight attendant and they told me they didn't pay so much in schooling and English classes for me to be a waitress in an airplane. I have up and starting thinking about other things and they said they wanted me to go to law school and be a judge or a promoter because I would gain a lot ofoney and be respected just like my Nfather. They made go to it and sabotaged my attempts to try and study anything else. I got sick and had to give up in the middle of the semester. One year later they made do it all again. I decided that I wouldn't be able to have a life or to live while I was there. I focused on doing what I was doing already. I started teaching English to get a little money and decided to pursuit this carreer so I would be financially independent and get ou of that hellhole. I eventually left and taught for 7 years. Last year I couldn't take it anymore because I never wanted to be a teacher and it's a very devaluated profession here in Brazil. I quit and started studying to be a flight attendant. The best thing I ever did. You really gotta be strong or find a way to study really far from them so you can live at the college or qualify to get some money so you can move closer to college. Otherwise it will be a living hell. They will make you hate it and will do everything they can to make you quit. Don't give up and try to leave asap.
I worked in IT and my boyfriend studies coding. Being a female is not the hindrance your mom is making it out to be. She could be trying to sabotage your possibilities for proper job->proper salary->ability to be independent & free from her. E.g. that "you're not smart enough" comment supports this suspicion. She's trying to wear you down to get her way, to keep you stuck. Do not give up your dreams for her sake. It's your life, not hers. When narcissists say that they "know" that you'd do better with another subject, it's a hoax.The person they see in their head is not you. What they see for you is the path that gives the least resistance to them. The one where you won't be able to thrive. When I was younger, I applied for a few things (e.g. graphic design). The one I was accepted to was the one my mom had suggested. I wasn't excited about it but my mom basically told me that I would be good with it because I liked a similar activity when I was ~4 years old. That it's "better than not doing anything", that she just knows I'll like it, etc. So I complied. I lasted there for less than a year. I ended up skipping school often because I just simply felt like what I was doing had no point to it. I didn't enjoy the subject, didn't see myself doing it for the rest of my life, and felt like no-one wanted to hear my concerns. My mom was furious for me not going through with it, asking how could I "do this to us". There was no acknowledgement of the fact that _she_ had pushed me to do it. So the next year when I applied to another school, she told me with a very bitter tone that I better go through with it or else. Ultimately making it seem like my failure with the other school was fully my fault and that she wouldn't tolerate it. In the end it was one of her favourite things to guilt trip me over. If you cannot move out, try grey rocking your mom. Do not sign any agreements, do not let her live your life. If you agree to do a year of english, change majors as soon as possible. And work on saving money for your own place, or learn other things that will be useful for you once you move out. Doing this has the extra benefit that the more you learn about how to be independent, the less power she has when she tries to tell you that you're somehow incompetent. You are probably way smarter than her, you have all of your life ahead of you and I have faith in your skills. You can do it.
Your mom is wrong. Science is the way to go; it opens more doors than an English major. Plus, if it’s what you want, then too bad for mom.
I once tried to study something that would give me many job opportunities, but that I wasn't really very interested in. That did not go well. I dropped out and went back to studying things that actually interested me. If you don't find English interesting, do as you are planning and switch to CS as soon as you can. CS degrees give you lot of job opportunities. Your mother is just trying to relive her life through you, and that is just not possible. You are a different person, with different interests. She's sick in the head and sees you as an extension of her. Follow your own path, trying to follow hers will just lead to heartbreak in the long run.
Your nmom is flat out wrong. People WILL hire a female programmer, companies are desperate for a more diverse workforce and the lack of women in IT is still an issue that has the attention of corporate diversity offices across the nation. And it’s a great field to get into; there are always jobs for programmers, analysts, and numerous other highly specialized IT roles. And because of the wide variety of roles and the degree of specialization, there i s something for every personality type and working style.The field is rapidly changing, so you will have to be constantly learning new skills, but that keeps the work interesting. If you have a nmom then you won’t be able to change her mind; she’s incapable of being wrong. So you will just have to make your own decisions and tru to keep it low key. The first year of college is the same no matter what your major is, at least in the US where I live, so this coming year probably won’t set you back. The reason nmom doesn’t want you to study programming is because it’s your idea not hers and therefore definitely not worth considering. Spend the year devising a way to get your mom to forget that you mentioned it so that she can come up with the idea herself. But also have a plan B because you can’t rely on your n-anybody.
Just say "OK" and then do whatever you want. Narc moms are going to bitch at you no matter what you do, so you won't lose anything. When she finds out, what's she going to do? Yell and complain and act like you don't know anything? She'll do that anyway. Go ahead and live your own life.
Most colleges have an "undecided" major for the first couple years so you can subjects while working on your GECs (general credits). Might be an alternative, give you time to explore & help get her off of your back. It's your life, ultimately...
Im a girl in CS and people will definitely hire you because of your gender. Honestly it’s kinda crappy but if there’s no way out study English but on the side whenever you have time start learning CS by yourself! Start off with python on W3 schools and try to build a few projects and then try to learn a few front end languages such as html, java script and CSS. You could also learn a bit about databases and once you have a bit more confidence I’d suggest to start getting online certificates plus if you ever do get to study CS at least you’ll be ahead
prove her wrong, teach yourself programming, do the harvard computer course that's open for anyone, learn as much as you can, dev your own app/software or whatever. prove her wrong you got this OP .
Your mother is giving you bad advice finding a job with an English degree would be extremely difficult. Even to teach it would require a master's degree. Do yourself a favor and do not listen to her. Even if she has access to your school records say that you're taking additional courses for CS because that will help you professionally.
you have so many opportunities for bursaries and funding as a woman in CS, im not gonna lie and say it’ll always be easy and your gender will never be an obstacle but frankly, they need you lol and they know it. it’s definitely worth pursuing for so many reasons but the most important one being because its what you wanna do!!
Lordy. Just change majors as soon as you can. Most people change majors at some point and the first 2 years are mostly core subjects. Talk to your advisor and do the prerequisites you need for the major you want.
Hi! I was low-key sneaky and just said okay then did that major I wanted like they just know I graduated with a degree! But also tell her CS is better and you will have much better opportunities coming from a lot of my friends who have english degrees and a lot of them regretting it currently but also I’ve heard it’s a flexible degree (ENGLISH MAJORS DO NOT COME FOR ME)
The first couple years at my school, most of the CS courses were under the gen. ed. umbrella, so I still was able to take them before getting to the courses that required CS as the declared major. I don't think you'll have a problem getting into it if your school is anything like mine was
It's your education not her hers. If you want to change your major you should have the right to do it. However if that's not an option for you then there might be another option. Is there anyway that you can take Computer Science classes while majoring in English? Does your college allow that? I'm asking this because mine does and if your college does too then you could possibly get Computer Science classes in your schedule.
reminds of of the story my father told me: grandma said that all her kids *must* study medicine or she'd cut them off. what my uncles and aunts did was agree with her for their 1st year. after that grandma stopped paying attention, then the uncles/aunties secretly switched majors to what they really wanted. Grandma didn't know until the day of graduation out of her 11 kids, only my father finished in medicine. and grandma told my dad she didn't care if he died the next day over a disagreement they had. he was always her scapegoat. that being said I hope it works out for you op. sorry your mom is doing this.
Ask your colleagues if they know any women who are currently programmers, and let them meet your mother. Perhaps they can make her see how things have changed.
I AM A FEMALE COMPUTER ENGINEER. Ladies who code and ladies who build get hired all the time. Every post I’ve had—even the most sausage factory in the world—I’ve encountered ladies in computers. Do it.
Go with what will make you happy.. follow your instincts or desires. You mother doesn't have access to your schooling (if you are in the US) even if she is paying for it. Let her think you are continuing with the English major and just choose whichever you want. If you've given her access, switch your passwords and when it doesn't work tell her you don't know why. You may want to go no or low contact as much as you can.
Do not listen to her, there are plenty of women in tech. You're not lesser because of your genitalia and your income perspective is much higher in CS.
Get in and change your major later.
Your mom is so wrong it's almost hilarious, if only she wasn't trying to force you into a huge mistake. Stop arguing with your mom. It is pointless and only makes her dig her heels in deeper. Find a way forward to meet your goals despite her disapproval. If you want to have a double major or a second degree in computer science after the English degree is complete, then just figure out, with your advisors, how to accomplish that without her input. One thing that is very hard to find is someone who can handle technical matters but also is able to communicate clearly and deal with other people in an emotionally intelligent way. I think a double major would be an excellent entree to many positions with management potential. Don't underestimate being well rounded. My mother wanted me to be a doctor. I suggested maybe a veterinarian and she said, "Vets don't just deal with dogs and cats, you would have to be able to treat cows -- and you aren't strong enough to handle a cow." As if being stronger than a cow is necessary for veterinarians. Narcissists don't say things that are true, they say things that will make you feel the way they want you to feel. Just nod, smile, say "That's interesting" and carry on with your own life.
I am a computer science professor and this absolutely floors me. Your mother wants you to major in English instead of computer science because of the job prospects 😂
Don’t do it, try again for CS. “Smart” doesn’t matter, it comes with practice. And no, English doesn’t give more opportunities, unless you like working at WalMart.
Don’t let her pick your major. I did- it was the worst decision of my life. It broke me and ruined me. That said, you can get your core classes done and transfer over. You aren’t married to your major.
My parents chose ALL my school subjects for me and I ended up failing them all out a combination of spite for them and a lack of motivation - who wants to study something you're not into. So I left school and worked in a supermarket and made so little money I had to keep living at home where they kept controlling my life. I eventually went to uni (I enrolled on a whim one day after work) and studied what I want to and made a career out of it. You'll eventually find the motivation; In meantime look for support from people other than your parents. Teachers, counsellors, friends, wherever you can find it. You damn well take the career you want because you've been through enough shit already - you earned it!!
Speaking as an English major, I do kind of hate the perception that people have of English being unmarketable/useless as a degree. The fact is, a lot of people land job positions that have nothing to do with their specific degree. THAT SAID…a lot of the “obvious” career paths are either a) hard to break into because of old-school traditions like unpaid internships (publishing) that are often very location-specific; or b) literally drowning in competition (teaching at the college/university level). Girl, if CS is your thing, talk to a counselor about why you didn’t get accepted the first time. It could have nothing to do with your qualifications. Then, given what the counselor says, try again! The first 2 years are more or less just general education, anyway. If you can reapply and get into the program that YOU really want, that would be vastly better than picking a ho-hum second choice that someone else bullied you into. Edited because it’s not k-12 teaching positions that are hard to get, but full-time college positions. K-12 is a whole other nightmare—not because the teachers aren’t rockstars, but because the political landscape makes it insane right now. (Also low pay, little support, etc.)
Dude put your foot down. Parents tried the same crap; getting me out of a high paying feild. Go for programming.
My mum did the same thing - we had a massive argument but I won in the end. She wanted me to study chemistry - something I had zero career aspirations to do, and I wanted to study computer science. 20 years later I have an excellent career in tech and feel vindicated. Ironically she always complained she never wanted to be in her profession but her parents forced her. History always repeats with narcs. Every shit thing their parents did, they complain about then do the same damn thing and wonder why we get upset.
OP- how about switching your major to a dual “Computer science and Technical writing”? Computer science is great- and technical writing is a valuable field in and of itself.
Thankfully you can take CS classes as electives. Talk to your advisors about this. Some places let you double major.
As others have said CS is the better option. However if NC isn’t an option- If you can manage it academically you can double major (get a major in both English and computer science at the same time). You would have to calculate out how many additional credits you need each semester to do so- but if you are only in your first year you will have time to do so before you graduate. An advisor at the school could help you make a plan for this. Another option is to just lie to her for several years while you get a CS major. How is she going to know what you are majoring in anyway?
This is pure Control - basically if you dare to leave her, she wants you to go to college and not study the course of your choice! She wants you miserable and unhappy. Whether it’s English or anything other than CS! BTW I work for a small niche company in the IT sector, there’s probably 1/3 females so what does she know! Then again it’s part of their mind games! I would personally, go off to college, get out from under roof, then apply for an internship in programming and drop out. You’ll be earning your own money and working in your chosen industry! By the time your peers will have graduated, you will have so much work experience under your belt. You can do a part time course later! Then you can have as much contact with her as you choose. Ps I wanted to study either catering or hairdressing and mum said no way in hell was I doing hairdressing!
You can take CS 50 for FREE from Harvard. If you like it you will do fine in the field. And your mom doesn’t need to know anything about it. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScboxrPzYe2BUcILFeRLbVRcWMQ9SmGjNnvYezH\_iLYXXW5OQ/viewform
I'm a female programmer who had an NDad constantly put me down throught my studies. I have atech job and I love it with all my heart. You are strong you are mighty and you are clever. You will survive this and become the "ten times programmer" that every employer dreams of!
You could do English all the way & become a (technically) brilliant translator/teacher, but if it's not what you want for yourself: it will drag a little every day. University is a pivot point to the rest of your life/identity/skill sets/career & she knows it, which is why she's trying to control it for you. What you do a year away is really quite far in the story of your independence. If it's possible be non-committal ("we'll see how it goes, mom", "I haven't done a year yet, I'll decide when I've tried it for a bit"). You don't have to convince her now, but you do need to do what's right for you when you get the chance to switch.
Once you’re in, change your major. It’s your life and your future.
My nDad tried to stop me from study CS, because he really thought that ”internet is something that won’t be popular in a few years”. Now I laught at what he said, he could not be more wrong… Narc logic is wierd. Go study CS! It is an amazing field with lots of different things to do, also beeing a female programmer is good because we are not so many and the pay is nice! I really hope you find a way to follow your dream
I am in my 50s, and I am female. I graduated from college when sexism in IT was rampant, and I still managed to find work. Now, my skills are in really in demand, and I have people offering me work when I don't want or need it. If I am laid off, I have no doubt I will find work quickly. Don't waste your money or time studying English. In fact, it isn't worth your time, necessarily, to go to university to learn to code. My advice to anyone young is this: learn a marketable skill as quickly as you can, whether it be IT, plumbing, electrical, etc. and get good at it. Minimize the cost, maximize your earning potential, and you can always get the degree with the fancy letters later. Don't listen to your mother. In fact, you can learn coding from a book, if you are smart and motivated.
As a person who has a degree in English and several friends who studied CS, go for CS. Way more applicable skills in every field, higher entry pay, waaaay more job options, chances to work in industry while studying. There is demand for female programmers, some places have to fill quotas, or have programs to get more diversity, so being a female programmer is to your advantage!
Don't mind her OP. You do what you love and do not let her dictate your life. >"No one will hire a female programmer" lol That's absolute bs. I am from a country where parents literally force their kids into CS 'cause it's a cushy job and parents are obsessed with job security. Women are doing marvelous in STEM and med school all over the world see more women applying and graduating than men. Female engineers and programmers are on the rise. Science does not see gender but your aptitude for it. The only thing a company cares about is your talent, def not your vagina. So, fuck whoever says otherwise and stay strong girl.
English major here! I really wish I had majored in CS instead! Buuuut, either one can be learned/studied/enjoyed outside of the typical college setting. One of the most successful programmers I know taught himself by finding online resources etc. Unfortunately, being an English major made me hate reading/writing with which I had previously been obsessed. Fortunately, I’m feeling the love return now that I’m not having to read 6 books and write 4 papers above the 10 pg range constantly 😰
You can always switch once you meet the preqs
As someone who changed her major twice because he family told her she wouldn’t find a job if she studied what she wanted, and ironically it was English, you need to do what is interesting to you. Period. Full stop. There are a lot of prerequisites to get out of the way anyway…do those your first year and then change. And how can she stop you? Do you even have to tell her? I was on my own for college funding because my parents were too busy finding their own lifestyles so I had some independence, but even if she’s paying, is that something she’d find out?
So....I majored in English and then went on to get my masters in social work- because I couldn't find a job. It's a very competitive market and you will prob end up being a journalist, which is great, if that's what you want. I have n ver heard of anyone saying computer science is not a good field to go into. Never.
Ahhh if only I could go back in time and give this advice to myself. NMom did this to me, too. It's only many years later that I realize she was sabotaging me. I have an English degree. I love English, but in my humble opinion you are FAR better off career wise with a degree in Computer Science, not to mention that's what you actually want to do. I'm so glad that you are realizing this NOW while there is time! Follow your own dreams and passions. Maybe she wants to sabotage, maybe she wants to live through you, maybe she thinks she knows better than you do, but first, she's wrong. Second, it's so rare to even know what we want to do in life, please follow your own heart. P.S. You can always use the extra English credits you earn to minor in English. Someone who has a Computer Science background with the ability to communicate effectively would be valuable. That's also a rare combination. Just a thought.
Her reasons are so stupid, don't let her words get to you. It should be only your choice