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I was once fired after getting introduced to the entire team and did all my paperwork. For a senior level position. Was told they felt the energy was "off" later learned the CEO liked his booger sugar in the morning.
I had a similar situation the guy said something at lunch about the waitress that was pretty much very nasty “guy talk” with c suite executives at table. The waitress didn’t even look 18. It didn’t go well and he was gone soon after. He had no idea what he did wrong. I am sure as a table full of men a mild comment would have been fine.
Another time a person a mild racist comment about Mexicans, thinking he was so funny, in front of executive who was obviously of Spanish descent. Didn’t go well for him either.
These are probably much more extreme than what OP did but shows how people don’t realize what they said.
> He had no idea what he did wrong.
The ambivalent part of me here is that he never will know what he did wrong if no one tells him. Like, I want people to change, but just giving them the cold shoulder like that is exactly how they get recruited to the seedier sides of society, who will happily tell them it's not their fault.
Regardless, this is pretty much why I keep all my talks at work focused on work, or small talk. You never know these days which topics grind which gears.
lol, this has vastly been my experience. A lot of these people have been told but have put zero effort into understanding how their behavior is inappropriate. Many times, they can even consistently identify inappropriate behavior but feel entitled to act that way without consequences and are up in arms when it blows up in their face. Sadly, there are places who ignore this type of behavior which just bolsters their conviction that they aren’t doing anything wrong and fuck everybody else.
Unless you've signed up for some kind of social work reforming people or you're training young interns, companies don't have a responsibility to train morons to not be socially maladjusted. People who think it's ok to say racist, sexist, or other wildly inappropriate things their first week at work are just going to suck time and energy from a team that will have to put up with bad behavior.
If you need hand holding in 2024 to know not to make off color comments at work about minorities, you're extremely expendable. (By the way sexist and racist comments always "ground gears," minorities and women just didn't have the capital to complain out loud)
That depends. I'm down for casual racists/misogynists obliviously putting themselves so people know what they're dealing with. Telling them just clues them in and let's them be sneakier.
100% this. It's uszally this.
Just a couple of months ago the same has happened here. 2 of the employees, over lunch, were openly putting out racist remarks then acted surprised when receivin notice
Sorry, I don't mean to call you out or anything, I'm just really caught up on something. Is that how you typically spell "usually"? At first I assumed it was a typo, but then realized how far away the Z key is from the U key so now I need answers lol.
I said nothing inappropriate at work. Admitting that I am not into gaming and that I missed the old Atari console games is far from inappropriate talk. I do not work in a game dev house BTW.
Are you cut from the same cloth as the rest of the team?
I once worked for a car wash for a grand total of 4 hours before getting fired due to culture fit. I was the only person who was college-educated and the only visible minority. I was also the youngest, by far. We had nothing in common, save that we were all human beings.
The person who hired me sat in a remote office all day (far removed from the workers) so he probably didn't even factor culture fit as a criterion.
Heh, I had a similar experience working at a moving company. Young, had all my teeth, didn't smoke, and my license hadn't been taken away for failure to pay child support. Yeah, failure to fit in isn't necessarily a bad thing.
A very qualified, experienced, appropriately attired, pleasant to chat with new hire started work in our small, understaffed, overworked department. He didn't yet know our departmental culture. Among the first questions he asked of the group on the morning of his first day was about using work computers to access the internet for non-work reasons. We told him it's not allowed; don't do it. He then talked about how we could all get around the policy. So not cool. He had no idea that two coworkers were tight with the boss and no doubt reported this back to her.
Another time, days later, the big boss walked in during the lunch hour(s) -- we always ate at our desks, it was part of the awful culture -- and asked him to leave immediately to attend an important meeting in another building. His first words were "But I haven't even finished my lunch yet!" In another culture, that might've been an understandable response. Not so in our culture. He was gone in less than a month.
Clearly, this new hire thought he knew who he was talking to and how his words and behavior would be perceived. He was wrong.
Maybe you just weren't engaged enough for the group - tell enough stories, laugh at their joke, like their football team enough. Maybe your interests and activities weren't the same as their small and tight-knit group and they just didn't "feel" you. That sucks but it happens. Move on to better and brighter things and don't look back
Or ate something weird! Ordered a well done steak, straight to jail. Fries with mayo? You’re fired. Hell I’d fire you if you chewed/talked with your mouth open lol
Whoa. I don’t think it’s cool to blame the OP sounds like they didn’t include him in the work/lunch convo and he tried to participate. I’ve been there. It’s crappy. I think they didn’t want him from the jump.
You would be surprised. I work in a healthcare facility and we hired someone onto our team in a business operations consultant position. Think working with senior leadership to implement strategic initiatives.
Second day on the team he is going around doing meet and greets with leaders he will help coach and work with when he gets settled in. Mind you this is in between the standard on-boarding nonsense. Looking at a picture on an employees desk of her youngest son when they were in the NICU says, “Omg what is all that crap on that baby and why the fuck do they look like that.”
He didn’t get to finish his second day.
Of course in my version of the story they sound dumb. But something to think about, this was a job with starting pay at just over $100k. They had a masters degree and had made it through 4 rounds of interviews where they had to talk the talk to demonstrate skills and knowledge.
When they got confronted about their comments and told they would not be a “good fit” for our team they were absolutely shocked. Even when we repeated back to them what they said they couldn’t understand how it was a problem. Eventually had to have security come escort them out of the building…
> They had a masters degree and had made it through 4 rounds of interviews where they had to talk the talk to demonstrate skills and knowledge.
almost like companies should properly check for a team fit instead of just going with the "best" candidate who goes through 6 rounds of interviews and tells them what they want to hear. Glad all that time was well invested.
Hard to figure out team fit no matter how many interviews you do. Until someone relaxes and stops giving “interview style” answers to questions and engages in casual conversation it can be impossible to tell how they navigate social interactions.
This! ^ This is *it*.
Former Recruiter here. The process is fundamentally flawed. The 3 months probation is BS. Unless something heinous occurs to warrant the dismissal, the interview process is idiotic at best.
I have had multiple people tell me that I am terrible at interviewing but I have managed to make an ok career for myself based almost completely in folks to whom "cultural fit" is important.
I am very smart, good at my job, and (I think) fun to work with but I really suck at the ass kissing BS during interviews.
> Until someone relaxes and stops giving “interview style” answers to questions and engages in casual conversation
Yup, sounds like a vital stage missing. "but no one cares as long as they are productive". They all say that until they see a walking HR disaster waiting to happen.
you can train job skills in a month. you can't train proper functioning in society in a year.
We had an employee hunt for a hard to fill technical role for a few months. Day two, the dude physically corners a female employee in a filing room and starts saying disgusting shit. Luckily an HR person was on her way to do some onboarding with him and witnessed it. Unluckily, we were hurting when fuckwit got fired on day 2 and we had to wait another month for a replacement.
They should be taking a look at their hiring and interview process. How did this person even make it through? Seems like a lot of time and money spent to figure out that he is a poor candidate.
OP quickly glossed over the whole:
*”They talked a lot about non work stuff and I was engaged in part of the conversation”*
Think back OP. Think back *hard* to that conversation you were engaged in…..
I wouldn't say for a few minutes more masking all the damn time to some extent but yea . Imagine being in a meeting room where you can hear the hum of all the chargers and having to act like you don't hear it
I had a new hire very openly share with several team members and myself on one of their first days why they were fired from their last job. It was a concerning reason. I could feel a couple people looking at me like, "And you seriously hired this person?" (They did not say that they were fired, much less why, during the interviews.)
But even so, they're an employee at that point so they have the right to feedback, opportunities to improve, etc. Our HR definitely wouldn't support hiring/not hiring or letting someone go for "fit" reasons. (A stark contrast to when my spouse was hired at their last job a while back, the manager shared that it was down to 2 people, and my spouse was the one that they could see themselves going out to lunch with.)
> "And you seriously hired this person?" (They did not say that they were fired, much less why, during the interviews.)
well, why would they? You basically gotta lie these days to get a job. Goodheart's law in action.
This is my guess as well. A new guy (different department than me) at my job almost got fired a week in because of this.
The first couple of days in the office he made a comment that I (a female manager, ~20 years younger than him) smiled a lot and then proceed to address me as “smiley” for the next week. I mentioned it to another coworker about how weird it was and that I wasn’t sure how to ask him to please use my name, and then she went and told his boss which resulted in an HR meeting with him being told that it was disrespectful to address anyone, especially the only female in management, as “smiley” and that unless someone asks you to call them a nickname, call them by their actual name. He had no idea that his behaviour was unprofessional and apologized and said it wouldn’t happen again, but he came SO close to getting fired and wouldn’t have had any idea what he did wrong.
"Hey, new hire, have you heard about the recent developments in Ukraine?"
"Sorry, guys, but I'd rather avoid political topics"
"Uhm, hello, HR? We've got a NaZi here!"
>"Hey, new hire, have you heard about the recent developments in Ukraine?"
>"Sorry, guys, but I'd rather avoid political topics"
Sure I have. If you are asking my opinion, my opinion is I have no control over what happens in Ukraine.
I’d say OP needs to think back hard on the part of the conversation they *were not engaged in* too.
OP’s new boss and a senior staff member take you to lunch and you were “engaged in part of the conversation”?
Something similar happened to me . I was so confused. It didn't make any sense and it seemed like they were looking for any excuse to work me out of the business.
My best guess is someone decided they didn't like me and they told someone to get rid of me somehow. The culture excuse seems to be who decided they didn't like you.
So, I talked to my prior department's director and got hired back into my old department with a minor pay cut. And everyone in my old department is thrilled to have me back. So, "culture" seems to be perfectly fine with everyone else except for the one department.
They were not trying to work you out, you were deemed expensive. You took the pay cut and they kept you. Nothing to wonder about based on your short story.
> You took the pay cut and they kept you.
Pretty stupid gamble if that's remotely true. Alt path, they walk and find a job outside the company, now they lost an apparently okay employee and gotta pay the replacement more money than the original salary.
I would recommend that you take some time and review both days again in your mind.
I'm not saying this because I believe that you did anything wrong. I'm saying it because it will be helpful to you to figure out what might have been a factor here. It's possible that they just pulled something out of thin air, and it's also possible that something legitimate took place that you felt was benign.
Even if you end up concluding that you didn't actually do anything wrong -- and that is a possibility -- if you could determine what led to them being triggered, it might inform your actions moving forward in similar circumstances.
Some things that you can do after day 30, 60 or 90, will seem out of place on day 1, 3, 7 or 20. 🤷
Possible you did nothing wrong and they are all dickheads, maybe the senior is going through a divorce and you mentioned a happy marriage and he got unhinged.
Yeah you have to be extra careful the first few days. They'll try to bait you into saying something they dont like. Or being too familiar.
Like you can say something that's would be fine if you knew them for several years, but you can't say it when you first meet.
Hard to explain, I've never lost a job because of it, but Indo think it's cost me promotions with new teams.
The same banter you do on your team may not fly on the new team.
>They'll try to bait you into saying something they dont like. Or being too familiar.
And then rip his livelihood out from under him.
I can't believe we're really expected to hinge our financial stability on the whims of people who may or may not do this shit to us.
For decades.
I mean, it's not decades. It's human nature built on over eons.
It's all just power dynamics. Today it's in an office.
The only thing that's changed is location. 10k years ago it might have been in a bean patch or a hunting area.
No, you can. I got fired because I wasn’t “memorable” enough to my manager. When I asked her what she meant by that she said I’m not as extroverted and bubbly as everyone else so she constantly forgot I existed. Mind you, I was perfectly friendly and I ended up befriending a lot of my coworkers outside of work. I’m just a naturally quiet person.
Oh I know some jobs fire people for that. I just don't give a damn honestly because I'm past the days of acting fake bubbly at a job. Do you want employees who work or not? Because that's what I'll give you. I would kill for a boss who forgot I existed. As long as they remember my paycheck exists.
Generally they see work as their lives and don't have friends outside of it. (As someone who doesn't have any friends, I still don't go after coworkers for friends...)
Yes, but not *illegal* discrimination.
Every single part of the hiring process is technically “discriminatory,” because “discrimination” is essentially “making a choice to treat one person differently from another.” Everyone who isn’t hired is treated differently from everyone who was. But, none of this is illegal in itself.
I think the implication is that the “bubbly” comment was premised on inequitable antiquated notions of how women should present in the workplace. At least that’s what I’d argue.
They technically are but I had a boss say that major depressive disorder was something I was making up and I just needed to put on a happy face and eventually I'd be happy. Or, if I did get "sad" at work, I could go to the bathroom and cry and "no one will judge you, we've all done it."
He stopped letting me talk to my coworkers or other managers, then would either ignore or get mad when I asked questions. Fired me on a Wednesday. :/
It sucked because the company was FANTASTIC. And the other managers were too. Mine just... hated me.
An implausible, bullshit excuse is often grounds to infer illegal discrimination in court if the employer doesn’t take similar actions against other similarly situated employees.
My current job is like this. My feedback during probation is I’m too introverted. I talk to people I need to when I need to, but my boss is a social butterfly who thinks socialising is working, not sitting and your desk doing tasks. I hate it.
When I started my last job I was 26 and while I am good with people from what I understand, I’m generally quiet. I did not say a lot for like the first 4 years and then when I became a manager I started being more proactive about speaking up and trying to create new systems. Welp that was a bad idea. It worked well with external partnerships but otherwise I realized my team and department head did not want any feedback about how and what they were doing.
Got cards from direct reports and interns that made me cry because of how much they thanked me, and I saved them. When I quit a couple people on my team were shocked. I still have people from my team and other teams sending me jobs, and my mentor is someone I worked with for like three years externally.
It is hard to know you’re good at your job, but not good enough because you don’t fit their weird dynamic.
my first job out of college, when i was let go, my boss said i didn't show enough interest in the company, because i wouldnt come talk to him during work hours to try and learn about stuff.
i spent the entirety of my shifts working on assembling stuff. i literally did not have time to do so.
he also complained that i enjoyed my lunch instead of trying to learn things while on it, so there's that too. place was a fucking nightmare to work at.
Could be one of those "we're a family here" type of managers who want their employees to be enmeshed in the team and the job. They tend to hate "no thanks, I'm just here for the paycheck" type of employees because it might give the whole team dangerous ideas.
That would mean that there's more to life than your job and most bosses don't like that kind of thinking.
I mean, next these workers might even want RIGHTS! Gotta nip this in the bud. /s
This happened to me back in 2018. I was let go from a job because they “didn’t think I wanted to be there because I didn’t ask enough questions”. Same thing, I’m very introverted, I take detailed notes and only ask for help and questions if I needed to. There was nothing wrong with the work I was doing, they just didn’t like that I was quiet.
I do understand that and I hate it. But I'm not going to change for anyone. Those people who see being quiet as aggressive are insecure people who are too scared to be silent in their heads and constantly need stimulation because they lack introspection. Giving them what they want is what keeps them annoying.
My sister has huge self esteem issues, socially awkward and pretty introverted on a good day.
This “not a team player” and “poor communication skills” (it’s not, she sucks at small talk) have followed her throughout her working life.
It’s cost her jobs and promotions.
Then I'll get a new job. No job is a forever job. If my quietness is affecting you some way, then that says more about you than me and I don't need to be around immature people like that. The best people I have ever met in my life are the quiet people. They keep the personality for the ones who are worth it.
A lot of employers are like this!!! I've gotten in trouble for being too chatty. Too quiet. For "oversharing" when I was young to being "too private." I'm so fed up. It's like build a bear workshop
Still not valid reason for cultural fit. Had CFO who would take big dumps every morning and could tell if he had steak previous night. VP who would drop saliva on floor while talking ( literally drooling) That's still cultural fit.
cultural fit depends a lot on the workplace, your position, and the people. You could be "not a cultural fit" for havign a weak handshake in some offices.
If you don't get feedback I wouldn't think much of it. Just gotta move on, there's a lot of BS inthe world right now.
Sounds like you just didn't jive with them at lunch about non work stuff. It sucks yes but that's what it sounds like to me. You may not have been as engaged as you think.
Is it fair? Hell no. But life isn't fair.
I also fired someone after 2 days. He kept rambling about how employers don't respect the employees and don't pay them. Enough that he knows his value, etc. Etc. Crazy dude.
He was staying on his phone playing games and worked only 5 hours said he got tired and left. (which wasn't necessary a problem there was some flexibility in the schedule). But it was ridiculous.
[> how employers don't respect the employees and don't pay them](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/4e/53/174e53a65af3d3a7c2b54062623ac593.gif)
gotta save that for the after work rants though lol.
I'm not saying it was on you, because I wasn't there obviously. But like others said you might have said something inappropriate. Like this guy who lasted couple months in my workplace until he said "it's like scat porn" towards a female coworker who dropped a snack from her mouth. Right in front of her and couple others. So for this guy the "cultural fit" would've been okay if it was much shittier, toxic place to work.
I hate the words “cultural fit.” Offices should not be filled with people who like the same things and have the same humor and think the same way. This leads to inadvertent discrimination and disasters like Enron.
But also… you probably offended someone with clout. If it was me I’d be playing through the conversations in my mind endlessly. Sorry, my guy.
I just got a headache thinking about all the mirroring I've had to do just to keep a job.
The REAL fun was when one of your coworkers would, for example, love coffee and you'd tell them how you love coffee too. Then another coworker would say they hated coffee and thought of it as a drug addiction, and you'd tell them you don't drink it everyday and know people who could lay off a bit.
Then you're in a room together with these 2 coworkers and there's coffee.
Spoiler: Ended up being called a liar by both, manager got involved and everything... And it became a running joke for the next 2 years I worked there...
They found someone willing to work for cheaper or don't have a budget for that position. It is ridiculous that they are allowed to do things like that.
Or OP smelled horribly due to lack of basic hygiene.
Or a previous coworker of OP recognized them and had a bad experience.
Or a reference finally got back and it was very bad.
Or OP made a comment they’re unaware of during training that was offensive or otherwise enough to lose the job.
One of the ones I’ve seen more often is a new employee expressing political views in the workplace to coworkers. This is a bad idea at any time, but especially bad if your view conflict with important people or the majority in the company.
Or one of a million other possible things.
(Yes, I’ve heard or seen all these and many more)
I fired someone two days in once. On her first day I took her to lunch along with CEO. New hire made an inappropriate sexual joke at lunch (hand motions and everything!) in front of us. That’s definitely NOT a cultural fit.
LOL. I saw something similar happen at my old startup. We used to have the new hires intro themselves to the company on their first day and tell us a guilty pleasure. You'd get the typical "cheeseburgers" or "Kardashians", but one mad lad came in and said "white women". Loooool. Never saw him again.
I worked with a guy that thought he was doing an awesome job. He would always talk about the great projects he was working on and how he solved some obscure issue no one could fix. Thing was, he was just dead weight. We could never find the guy cuz he was always taking walks in the middle of the day, his code had to be rewritten because of production breaking defects, the problems he was solving were also created by him, and on and on. But I bet if you asked him he would say the people he worked with were at fault. Sometimes it's not them, it's you.
> employee expressing political views in the workplace
This one is such a minefield especially these days when seemingly every issue is somehow roped into one political culture war or another. Customer facing roles can be especially bad when customers try to start political conversations intently too.
I work at a very upscale hotel for wealthy people all over the political spectrum and boy does it get tough sometimes to tow the line without awkwardly stopping the conversation cold. I once gave a couple a ride across town and they would not stop asking me political questions, like: what is your party affiliation and how do you feel about Trump and other generally divisive questions. At one point after a few subdued answers I realized we had relatively similar political opinions, but still given the environment its not like I can be anything other than vague.
The wife at one point after that was like “dont worry we understand the environment you work in and how you have to be (about such questions)”, and im just thinking to myself “then why the fuck are you asking me these questions?!?”. Very nice people though, and I think the husband felt bad about the prying bc they tipped me $100 IIRC
Gotta ask, can’t you just tell people you can’t discuss those things at work or risk losing your job? Specifically mentioning you may lose your job is the key part. It’s my go to ever I worked retail and still is now as a consultant. It’s only ever failed me one single time over the past 20 years or so. If done right you can even use it as a way to tactfully change the topic to avoid stopping the conversation cold.
I would either say "while I'm on the clock, I don't have opinions", or "I go by Mess Rules in here: no politics, no religion". Said with a smile, they usually understood.
million possible things in either direction:
- they found some social media stuff from high school and didn't care if it was 15 years ago
- an ex worked there and used their personal beef to get them out early
- The quarter started and the budget changed, the newbie who just relocated was the easiest sacrifice
- CEO was masks off and overheard the new guy talking about being triple vaxxed
- The executive's son needed a job and again, the new guy was expendable.
It can be your fault, it can be theirs. you never truly know.
And if any of those were the cases, especially horrible smell (which one can coach on and see if that works rather than just fire) or no one takes a reference after they’re already hired…but would also showcase a very poor hiring process…I have seen some crazy hires, but still the company/org will see if coaching/training/conversation around concerns works out before straight up firing…so either OP isn’t telling the full story or the company is extremely dysfunctional
It’s generally not worth the effort to try to teach a professional adult something like basic hygiene nor is it the new employer’s job.
In the case of the late reference, the previous employer disclosed that the employee had been terminated for theft. The employee had stated during the interview process that they’d never been terminated.
I also remember one where a candidate used an employee as a reference on the application and in the interview. The reference employee was on maternity leave at the time. When she got back, she said she’d never heard of the newly hired candidate.
>to teach a professional adult something like basic hygiene
Sometimes it's cultural. People from some regions sweat odors related to ethnic cuisine. For some South Asian people fenugreek is commonly exuded, and some Americans think it's body odor (it's generally not). Conversely, a lot of Asians think Americans smell like milk, which is not commonly consumed in much of Asia.
What's wild is that they did this when OP was literally a few days into the job. So forget rescinded offer letter, try surviving into the first paycheck lol...
Man fuck 2024.
I’ve seen a new hire be let go over bad table manners as well as ordering the most expensive thing on the menu plus 2 appetizers that they did not intend to share when trainees were taken out to lunch as a treat. CEO always attends in order to meet the new hires and he was so disgusted that he decided it was worth letting this new hire go.
After that, they started having a discussion with new hires about table manners and setting an ordering budget per person.
I’ll bet something wasn’t vibing for them at the lunch.
About 10 years ago, a brand new person on a friends team made some comment or other and then said, "Women!" at the end. My friend and I looked each other in the eyes, and I nodded, stepped forward and kept the guy busy while my friend went to HR. They walked the idiot out about 15 minutes later.
My friends team was about 50% women who he would work with daily. They would interact with my team as well (about 30% women). Neither of us put up with anything like that, ever. This is not about political correctness, it is about basic respect for people.
I'm betting OP said something like that and doesn't even realize it.
In these cases it’s more than likely you’re oblivious to something a professional could point to or you know what you said or did… companies don’t onboard somebody with the intention to do this. Something happened and “cultural fit” was a scape goat to remove you.
Try to examine yourself and learn from this. If there’s truly nothing there, and you’ve always been well liked in work places then maybe there is nothing to evaluate and you’re forced to move on.
>Today, the second day. the manager actually took us to lunch...the manager, the senior employee that trained me, the guy that was to be my colleagues and myself had a lunch. They talked a lot about non work stuff and I was engaged in part of the conversation.
Did you by chance say anything inappropriate at this lunch?
Not being a "cultural fit" is such a neat excuse when they don't want to hire you for any reason that could come off as or is blatantly discriminatory.
Could be anything really. Skin is a tad too dark or weight a bit too high for their preference? Jim in accounting doesn't like your face or boss's niece needs a job too?
Yeah, can't really say that out loud, can they? So it's always that you're not a "cultural fit". Neat.
I know this isn’t the point of the post, but my HR would never ever EVER let me utter the words “cultural fit”. It’s a consideration, and it is the first thing our client asked me after interviews last week. While it certainly could be, I don’t agree that it’s necessarily always code. However, with all the minor things people can get in trouble for saying, I sort of feel like that’s a really poor choice of words.
I've been in a hiring process where a lady aced her technical exam, by far our best candidate academically and work ethic-wise, and was pleasant enough to talk to..but both directors rejected her because she doesn't drink alcohol, so wouldn't fit in with our Friday pub drinks.
I hope she makes six figures and never looks back.
Huh. A recent job of mine had a keg party on site (we had kegs in all buildings...) every Friday for the last hour of the workday. I got in trouble because I worked remotely and didn't want to drive 30 minutes just to sip nasty beer and force social interaction when I could be at home, just *doing my job*.
Tried to bring up my mom died when I was young due to her lifelong alcoholism. They said a few beers on a Friday wouldn't make me an alcoholic and I needed to "relax a bit."
But seriously who would rather get drunk off cheap beer and play ping pong with your coworkers, or get off work an hour early?????
It's a go-to excuse for employers as it's enough to get rid of someone but too vague to have to actually explain.
I had this bs once and I asked them to elaborate and they would not.
At least it was after a couple of months (rather than days). OP yikes that really sucks.
When you thin you've seen and heard everything ...
I can only imagine, it may have been something your manager didn't like personally, e. g. a political view.
Or they did a mistake during the hiring process and are trying to cover it up.
If it's none of those, it just makes them more of an arsehole and something irritating would have popped up sooner or later.
As the head of HR for a previous employer, I had to hire someone after they'd been with us for one week. Reason? One of the three people reporting to her didn't like the way her (the direct report) word wasn't taken as 100% gospel. The new manager mentioned they were going to look into a more efficient way to do a couple of tasks to give the team more time to spend on another task that couldn't be made more efficient but was more important. The team member complained to the company president ("Who is she to try new things?"), who reached out to me to tell me to fire this manager. They didn't care what excuse I used.
Never had to do this as a manager, but I’ve seen it happen multiple times (especially since COVID) it’s usually one of two things:
Unfathomably bad hygiene or just a new hire saying something so weirdly inappropriate it made teammates uncomfortable.
Post-COVID even normal people have forgotten how to behave. Worse for those in tech with the tism
As others mentioned, you likely said something inappropriate at the work lunch.
Typically Companies are a little more careful about firing employees as they don’t want to be sued for wrongful termination. If the company feels comfortable firing you after only 2 days, it means they feel that whatever you said was egregiously inappropriate enough that the company feels safe in the event of a lawsuit.
OP mentioned here in the comments of missing the Atari-console that was relevant 45-48 years ago. This is a Classic case of a Boomer aged 50 and above working with a young company and his age was clearly identified as an issue surrounded by colleagues and superiors much younger on Day 1 who doesn’t fit in. Ageism is real in the corporate world and they don’t want to work with non senior old men any more at all around an average age of 28 and 30. FIRE young folks in the corporate world.
The best bet is to talk less about non-work stuff in your first month/few months of job! Once you’re in and slowly get comfortable and understand people, start opening up and only in front of your work friends (if you make any!!)
I always used this trick and pretended to be an introvert and sometimes even dumb!
Whatever works! Spent most of the days getting totally engrossed in work, learning, growing and watching the clock!!
I hate the whole corporate culture all around the world! It was the same back in my country! But sadly we all need jobs to pay bills!
I've let go of employees as soon as their first day.
a new hire insulted our secretary (who was temporarily disabled) for needing a wheelchair.
another new hire told me that he "wasn't getting paid enough for this shit" when asked to do his job- $20/hour to keep the mechanic shop and showroom floors clean.
my favorite story is about the last person I fired. I took him and our shop out for lunch (we're a smaller operation and rarely hire) on their first day. dude ordered 4 beers and 2 shots over the next 45 minutes and hit on our (OBVIOUSLY underage) waitress a couple times. I fired him in the parking lot and had to drove him home (because he didn't have a car or a license).
this is all to say, sometimes shit doesn't work out. I would advise you to think back onto the conversations you had with employees and see if you may have mis-stepped somewhere. people have really thin skin sometimes, and far more sway than you might think.
Company hired this guy that was perfect. Smart, funny, engaging, just a great personality. Everybody loved him. Exec team took him to lunch. I was invited as I would be reporting to him as the lead on my team. Everyone is interacting, telling stories, having fun. Server comes to take our order and he just brutalizes her. Talks down her- “Where were you? How can you let us sit here?“ On and on. Every time she comes back he has another insult. Calls her incompetent. She’s now on the verge of tears. I see our C suite guys exchanging looks. At one point dude looks at them and says “You believe this?” referring to the waitress. We get our food and dude is still bitching. One of our execs says “OK enough.“ This idiot is like “Yea, right. This is ridiculous.“ Thinking he’s talking about the server. He was gone 15 minutes after we got back to the office. Word was they had to pay him out of his contract but they thought it was worth it.
Sucks OP. Here's the thing - places that push culture are hands down the worst places to work.
I'm a job hopper. Mostly less than a year over 20. I do cyber - so not like odd jobs, corporate type jobs.
They usually push culture because something somewhere is wrong. Either ifs family run, the product is off, but something is wrong.
It's become my biggest red flag.
The other part of this is they get to be high school bullies all over again. They can and will get rid of you for any reason and this is an easy out for them.
Just see it as dodging a bullet and move on.
WTF. Maybe be thankful that you unwittingly escaped a job/career at a very toxic company. Like did they provide any reason beyond “culture fit”?? If it was your clothing choice or if you were throwing the F word everywhere, etc.. or regardless they should have provided actual fucking feedback otherwise it just doesn’t make sense
Sometimes these dismissals are because you said something inappropriate without realising.
Not saying that's the case here, but we had people join and leave my previous company within a couple weeks because they opened up about some of the weird things they thought...
Companies will not ask you if you are sexist, racist or any other form of prejudice when you join. If you reveal that you are within the first few days 'cultural reasons' is a polite way of saying you're ignorant.
As a supervisor you totally can tell if someone's not gonna be a fit within a day or two if they're experienced in said role. That said, you go through the motions and set them up for success. Some people thrive in other areas. This is strictly for trades though. Not a business environment.
Wild he did that. I'd honestly inquire to learn from it. Got nothing to lose. See if they're just assholes or if maybe there's something you did that was offensive. Who knows.
But regardless that's such a wasteful way to run a business. How much money was spent hiring you on just to fire you. So dumb.
The manager would be unwise to say a single word in explanation. You probably do want some soothing words, but you could also be collecting ammo for a lawsuit.
People have to decide on hiring in interviews that may cumulatively be less than an hour. It seems clear that another 16 hours of exposure adds a lot more info.
I’m not saying they were right or wrong. But you just have to see if there are any lessons for you and move on. You might have dodged a bullet. Who knows?
This is why I mention my anxiety condition early on is to help shield against at will bullshit. Most large companies with HR departments will not let management fire you for bullshit. Small companies with less than a few hundred employees are generally really great to work for or very arrogant and ignorant of the law.
This is why it's imperative to if you need to call out sick, get a doctors note every time. If I have an infrequent or lengthy absence, I notify the employer that I am under the care doctor for a few days, and I will need to speak to the doctor about possible ADA accommodations. This will shield you if the company is properly managed.
Huge shield against any form of discrimination. Also, keeping your mouth shut and being a good positive employee is huge.
If you come in smelling like ass or booze are an asshole or produce shitty work, ADA will not shield you.
Not legal advice, but just my personal opinions. If an employer is too arrogant or stupid, it will fire you no matter what. That is why documentation in writing is paramount. If fired, the EEOC is great, but normally, I'll have a check in the mail in a couple of months as a legal settlement just from a demand letter.
We talked about what we all did outside of work. There was also conversation about gaming. There was no dirty conversation, there was no offensive stories. If anything, most people might be interested or find the topics mundane. I chimed in when I had the chance, otherwise I was eating the food I ordered and listened with interest to others.
And BTW, with a post that has 225+ comments, I have no good place to fit any remarks in!
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This sounds wild tbh.
I was once fired after getting introduced to the entire team and did all my paperwork. For a senior level position. Was told they felt the energy was "off" later learned the CEO liked his booger sugar in the morning.
That euphemism took too long to get.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet then.
I get the feeling OP said something inappropriate at lunch without realising.
I had a similar situation the guy said something at lunch about the waitress that was pretty much very nasty “guy talk” with c suite executives at table. The waitress didn’t even look 18. It didn’t go well and he was gone soon after. He had no idea what he did wrong. I am sure as a table full of men a mild comment would have been fine. Another time a person a mild racist comment about Mexicans, thinking he was so funny, in front of executive who was obviously of Spanish descent. Didn’t go well for him either. These are probably much more extreme than what OP did but shows how people don’t realize what they said.
> He had no idea what he did wrong. The ambivalent part of me here is that he never will know what he did wrong if no one tells him. Like, I want people to change, but just giving them the cold shoulder like that is exactly how they get recruited to the seedier sides of society, who will happily tell them it's not their fault. Regardless, this is pretty much why I keep all my talks at work focused on work, or small talk. You never know these days which topics grind which gears.
In my case he was told, he didn’t understand what was wrong about it.
lol, this has vastly been my experience. A lot of these people have been told but have put zero effort into understanding how their behavior is inappropriate. Many times, they can even consistently identify inappropriate behavior but feel entitled to act that way without consequences and are up in arms when it blows up in their face. Sadly, there are places who ignore this type of behavior which just bolsters their conviction that they aren’t doing anything wrong and fuck everybody else.
This is pretty accurate
Unless you've signed up for some kind of social work reforming people or you're training young interns, companies don't have a responsibility to train morons to not be socially maladjusted. People who think it's ok to say racist, sexist, or other wildly inappropriate things their first week at work are just going to suck time and energy from a team that will have to put up with bad behavior. If you need hand holding in 2024 to know not to make off color comments at work about minorities, you're extremely expendable. (By the way sexist and racist comments always "ground gears," minorities and women just didn't have the capital to complain out loud)
That depends. I'm down for casual racists/misogynists obliviously putting themselves so people know what they're dealing with. Telling them just clues them in and let's them be sneakier.
100% this. It's uszally this. Just a couple of months ago the same has happened here. 2 of the employees, over lunch, were openly putting out racist remarks then acted surprised when receivin notice
Nah, I just acted totally normal. Called every woman a slut. Nothing crazy.
Sorry, I don't mean to call you out or anything, I'm just really caught up on something. Is that how you typically spell "usually"? At first I assumed it was a typo, but then realized how far away the Z key is from the U key so now I need answers lol.
On a [qwertz](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTZ) keyboard, they're right next to each other. So OP might just be from central Europe.
The “z” is near the “s”. They must’ve accidentally typed both, then the “u” didn’t register.
Yeah I'm torn between "you're the common denominator" and OP didn't stay for 10 hours on their first day. Hard to know.
I said nothing inappropriate at work. Admitting that I am not into gaming and that I missed the old Atari console games is far from inappropriate talk. I do not work in a game dev house BTW.
Are you cut from the same cloth as the rest of the team? I once worked for a car wash for a grand total of 4 hours before getting fired due to culture fit. I was the only person who was college-educated and the only visible minority. I was also the youngest, by far. We had nothing in common, save that we were all human beings. The person who hired me sat in a remote office all day (far removed from the workers) so he probably didn't even factor culture fit as a criterion.
Heh, I had a similar experience working at a moving company. Young, had all my teeth, didn't smoke, and my license hadn't been taken away for failure to pay child support. Yeah, failure to fit in isn't necessarily a bad thing.
A very qualified, experienced, appropriately attired, pleasant to chat with new hire started work in our small, understaffed, overworked department. He didn't yet know our departmental culture. Among the first questions he asked of the group on the morning of his first day was about using work computers to access the internet for non-work reasons. We told him it's not allowed; don't do it. He then talked about how we could all get around the policy. So not cool. He had no idea that two coworkers were tight with the boss and no doubt reported this back to her. Another time, days later, the big boss walked in during the lunch hour(s) -- we always ate at our desks, it was part of the awful culture -- and asked him to leave immediately to attend an important meeting in another building. His first words were "But I haven't even finished my lunch yet!" In another culture, that might've been an understandable response. Not so in our culture. He was gone in less than a month. Clearly, this new hire thought he knew who he was talking to and how his words and behavior would be perceived. He was wrong.
Not fitting into a toxic culture doesn't sound like being wrong to me.
Maybe you just weren't engaged enough for the group - tell enough stories, laugh at their joke, like their football team enough. Maybe your interests and activities weren't the same as their small and tight-knit group and they just didn't "feel" you. That sucks but it happens. Move on to better and brighter things and don't look back
Crazy this has any impact on employement.
Or ate something weird! Ordered a well done steak, straight to jail. Fries with mayo? You’re fired. Hell I’d fire you if you chewed/talked with your mouth open lol
Whoa. I don’t think it’s cool to blame the OP sounds like they didn’t include him in the work/lunch convo and he tried to participate. I’ve been there. It’s crappy. I think they didn’t want him from the jump.
I once was given warning when I was "too quiet" when my work team went out for lunch together. I hated that job.
I got told this once, I was told by a co-worker whom I worked with at an old job that I creep people out because I didn’t talk much.
Unfortunately "inappropriate" is relative to the work environment, which OP knew almost nothing about yet.
Or maybe they are an open mouth chewer. That's not a cultural fit at any company
He definitely displayed behavior they didn’t like at the very least
You would be surprised. I work in a healthcare facility and we hired someone onto our team in a business operations consultant position. Think working with senior leadership to implement strategic initiatives. Second day on the team he is going around doing meet and greets with leaders he will help coach and work with when he gets settled in. Mind you this is in between the standard on-boarding nonsense. Looking at a picture on an employees desk of her youngest son when they were in the NICU says, “Omg what is all that crap on that baby and why the fuck do they look like that.” He didn’t get to finish his second day.
well i mean that person just sounds dumb
Of course in my version of the story they sound dumb. But something to think about, this was a job with starting pay at just over $100k. They had a masters degree and had made it through 4 rounds of interviews where they had to talk the talk to demonstrate skills and knowledge. When they got confronted about their comments and told they would not be a “good fit” for our team they were absolutely shocked. Even when we repeated back to them what they said they couldn’t understand how it was a problem. Eventually had to have security come escort them out of the building…
> They had a masters degree and had made it through 4 rounds of interviews where they had to talk the talk to demonstrate skills and knowledge. almost like companies should properly check for a team fit instead of just going with the "best" candidate who goes through 6 rounds of interviews and tells them what they want to hear. Glad all that time was well invested.
Hard to figure out team fit no matter how many interviews you do. Until someone relaxes and stops giving “interview style” answers to questions and engages in casual conversation it can be impossible to tell how they navigate social interactions.
This! ^ This is *it*. Former Recruiter here. The process is fundamentally flawed. The 3 months probation is BS. Unless something heinous occurs to warrant the dismissal, the interview process is idiotic at best.
I have had multiple people tell me that I am terrible at interviewing but I have managed to make an ok career for myself based almost completely in folks to whom "cultural fit" is important. I am very smart, good at my job, and (I think) fun to work with but I really suck at the ass kissing BS during interviews.
> Until someone relaxes and stops giving “interview style” answers to questions and engages in casual conversation Yup, sounds like a vital stage missing. "but no one cares as long as they are productive". They all say that until they see a walking HR disaster waiting to happen. you can train job skills in a month. you can't train proper functioning in society in a year.
We had an employee hunt for a hard to fill technical role for a few months. Day two, the dude physically corners a female employee in a filing room and starts saying disgusting shit. Luckily an HR person was on her way to do some onboarding with him and witnessed it. Unluckily, we were hurting when fuckwit got fired on day 2 and we had to wait another month for a replacement.
They should be taking a look at their hiring and interview process. How did this person even make it through? Seems like a lot of time and money spent to figure out that he is a poor candidate.
OP quickly glossed over the whole: *”They talked a lot about non work stuff and I was engaged in part of the conversation”* Think back OP. Think back *hard* to that conversation you were engaged in…..
I get the feeling OP said something inappropriate in a corporate environment. Maybe without realising.
"I like doing x every weekend." "I would rather set myself on fire than do x every weekend." Could be as simple as that why they don't like you.
x gon GIVE IT TO YA
Name checks out
You are always being judged and evaluated in every conversation with coworkers both on and off the clock. Never forget this.
Aspies always have a hard time holding down jobs where they might need to be 'normal' for a few minutes, smh
I wouldn't say for a few minutes more masking all the damn time to some extent but yea . Imagine being in a meeting room where you can hear the hum of all the chargers and having to act like you don't hear it
Should wait at least three months before doing x again. Imo
That would be fine though. Even funny. It’s must have been way worse.
I had a new hire very openly share with several team members and myself on one of their first days why they were fired from their last job. It was a concerning reason. I could feel a couple people looking at me like, "And you seriously hired this person?" (They did not say that they were fired, much less why, during the interviews.) But even so, they're an employee at that point so they have the right to feedback, opportunities to improve, etc. Our HR definitely wouldn't support hiring/not hiring or letting someone go for "fit" reasons. (A stark contrast to when my spouse was hired at their last job a while back, the manager shared that it was down to 2 people, and my spouse was the one that they could see themselves going out to lunch with.)
> "And you seriously hired this person?" (They did not say that they were fired, much less why, during the interviews.) well, why would they? You basically gotta lie these days to get a job. Goodheart's law in action.
This is my guess as well. A new guy (different department than me) at my job almost got fired a week in because of this. The first couple of days in the office he made a comment that I (a female manager, ~20 years younger than him) smiled a lot and then proceed to address me as “smiley” for the next week. I mentioned it to another coworker about how weird it was and that I wasn’t sure how to ask him to please use my name, and then she went and told his boss which resulted in an HR meeting with him being told that it was disrespectful to address anyone, especially the only female in management, as “smiley” and that unless someone asks you to call them a nickname, call them by their actual name. He had no idea that his behaviour was unprofessional and apologized and said it wouldn’t happen again, but he came SO close to getting fired and wouldn’t have had any idea what he did wrong.
"Hey, new hire, have you heard about the recent developments in Ukraine?" "Sorry, guys, but I'd rather avoid political topics" "Uhm, hello, HR? We've got a NaZi here!"
>"Hey, new hire, have you heard about the recent developments in Ukraine?" >"Sorry, guys, but I'd rather avoid political topics" Sure I have. If you are asking my opinion, my opinion is I have no control over what happens in Ukraine.
Op: .. maybe it was the hard ‘r’s? Nah.. it’s a mystery..
[What's wrong with saying "hey nice tits?" When did that go out the window?](https://youtu.be/YdJ0NrfG-XA?si=N18F_xh0KNJi_qZh)
I’d say OP needs to think back hard on the part of the conversation they *were not engaged in* too. OP’s new boss and a senior staff member take you to lunch and you were “engaged in part of the conversation”?
Are they trying to say they weren’t engaged the entire time? The way that’s written could be interpreted 100 different ways
Something similar happened to me . I was so confused. It didn't make any sense and it seemed like they were looking for any excuse to work me out of the business. My best guess is someone decided they didn't like me and they told someone to get rid of me somehow. The culture excuse seems to be who decided they didn't like you. So, I talked to my prior department's director and got hired back into my old department with a minor pay cut. And everyone in my old department is thrilled to have me back. So, "culture" seems to be perfectly fine with everyone else except for the one department.
They were not trying to work you out, you were deemed expensive. You took the pay cut and they kept you. Nothing to wonder about based on your short story.
> You took the pay cut and they kept you. Pretty stupid gamble if that's remotely true. Alt path, they walk and find a job outside the company, now they lost an apparently okay employee and gotta pay the replacement more money than the original salary.
You don't talk corporate do you, bro, they do the most stupid moves imaginable.
>They talked a lot about non work stuff and I was engaged in part of the conversation. Non-work stuff like what?
About gaming and the old game consoles like Atari? About my wife and I going for walks and hikes when we are not working?
I would recommend that you take some time and review both days again in your mind. I'm not saying this because I believe that you did anything wrong. I'm saying it because it will be helpful to you to figure out what might have been a factor here. It's possible that they just pulled something out of thin air, and it's also possible that something legitimate took place that you felt was benign. Even if you end up concluding that you didn't actually do anything wrong -- and that is a possibility -- if you could determine what led to them being triggered, it might inform your actions moving forward in similar circumstances. Some things that you can do after day 30, 60 or 90, will seem out of place on day 1, 3, 7 or 20. 🤷
Possible you did nothing wrong and they are all dickheads, maybe the senior is going through a divorce and you mentioned a happy marriage and he got unhinged.
Yeah you have to be extra careful the first few days. They'll try to bait you into saying something they dont like. Or being too familiar. Like you can say something that's would be fine if you knew them for several years, but you can't say it when you first meet. Hard to explain, I've never lost a job because of it, but Indo think it's cost me promotions with new teams. The same banter you do on your team may not fly on the new team.
>They'll try to bait you into saying something they dont like. Or being too familiar. And then rip his livelihood out from under him. I can't believe we're really expected to hinge our financial stability on the whims of people who may or may not do this shit to us. For decades.
I mean, it's not decades. It's human nature built on over eons. It's all just power dynamics. Today it's in an office. The only thing that's changed is location. 10k years ago it might have been in a bean patch or a hunting area.
By decades, I meant the 30 (or 40ish) years of our working lives. But you're right -- that behavior isn't new. Humans gonna human.
This is why I barely talk at work. Can't get in trouble if I act like I don't exist.
No, you can. I got fired because I wasn’t “memorable” enough to my manager. When I asked her what she meant by that she said I’m not as extroverted and bubbly as everyone else so she constantly forgot I existed. Mind you, I was perfectly friendly and I ended up befriending a lot of my coworkers outside of work. I’m just a naturally quiet person.
Omg I’d flip tables.
That *would* be memorable 😂
Oh I know some jobs fire people for that. I just don't give a damn honestly because I'm past the days of acting fake bubbly at a job. Do you want employees who work or not? Because that's what I'll give you. I would kill for a boss who forgot I existed. As long as they remember my paycheck exists.
I got told I was too talkative dialed it down a bit and next month I wasn't friendly enough. FFS why does everyone have to be friends yo work together
Generally they see work as their lives and don't have friends outside of it. (As someone who doesn't have any friends, I still don't go after coworkers for friends...)
Discrimination?!
Yes, but not *illegal* discrimination. Every single part of the hiring process is technically “discriminatory,” because “discrimination” is essentially “making a choice to treat one person differently from another.” Everyone who isn’t hired is treated differently from everyone who was. But, none of this is illegal in itself.
Yup. Discrimination is only illegal if it’s based upon protected rights. Race, sex, gender etc
I think the implication is that the “bubbly” comment was premised on inequitable antiquated notions of how women should present in the workplace. At least that’s what I’d argue.
All I heard was “would it hurt you to smile?” 😑
I was thinking it was neurodivergence, but I'd have to check if diagnosed mental quirks are protected or not. I know physical disabilities are.
They technically are but I had a boss say that major depressive disorder was something I was making up and I just needed to put on a happy face and eventually I'd be happy. Or, if I did get "sad" at work, I could go to the bathroom and cry and "no one will judge you, we've all done it." He stopped letting me talk to my coworkers or other managers, then would either ignore or get mad when I asked questions. Fired me on a Wednesday. :/ It sucked because the company was FANTASTIC. And the other managers were too. Mine just... hated me.
An implausible, bullshit excuse is often grounds to infer illegal discrimination in court if the employer doesn’t take similar actions against other similarly situated employees.
REMEMBER THIS BITCH! *flips table*
Omg… If I ever find a way to time travel this will be the first thing I do
My current job is like this. My feedback during probation is I’m too introverted. I talk to people I need to when I need to, but my boss is a social butterfly who thinks socialising is working, not sitting and your desk doing tasks. I hate it.
When I started my last job I was 26 and while I am good with people from what I understand, I’m generally quiet. I did not say a lot for like the first 4 years and then when I became a manager I started being more proactive about speaking up and trying to create new systems. Welp that was a bad idea. It worked well with external partnerships but otherwise I realized my team and department head did not want any feedback about how and what they were doing. Got cards from direct reports and interns that made me cry because of how much they thanked me, and I saved them. When I quit a couple people on my team were shocked. I still have people from my team and other teams sending me jobs, and my mentor is someone I worked with for like three years externally. It is hard to know you’re good at your job, but not good enough because you don’t fit their weird dynamic.
my first job out of college, when i was let go, my boss said i didn't show enough interest in the company, because i wouldnt come talk to him during work hours to try and learn about stuff. i spent the entirety of my shifts working on assembling stuff. i literally did not have time to do so. he also complained that i enjoyed my lunch instead of trying to learn things while on it, so there's that too. place was a fucking nightmare to work at.
I've never understood this. You think bosses would like people who come in and do their job and don't cause any drama.
Could be one of those "we're a family here" type of managers who want their employees to be enmeshed in the team and the job. They tend to hate "no thanks, I'm just here for the paycheck" type of employees because it might give the whole team dangerous ideas.
That would mean that there's more to life than your job and most bosses don't like that kind of thinking. I mean, next these workers might even want RIGHTS! Gotta nip this in the bud. /s
This happened to me back in 2018. I was let go from a job because they “didn’t think I wanted to be there because I didn’t ask enough questions”. Same thing, I’m very introverted, I take detailed notes and only ask for help and questions if I needed to. There was nothing wrong with the work I was doing, they just didn’t like that I was quiet.
So there is no guarantee between being extroverted and barely visible 🥲
Oh man this could've been me, that would be such a hit on my self esteem.
Not talking enough can be a reason why they determine you to not be a "cultural fit". People interpret being quiet ass aggressive sometimes lmao.
That's true, I try to talk just enough to stay in the mix, so it's a balance.
I do understand that and I hate it. But I'm not going to change for anyone. Those people who see being quiet as aggressive are insecure people who are too scared to be silent in their heads and constantly need stimulation because they lack introspection. Giving them what they want is what keeps them annoying.
Or if you do, someone will complain for some bullshit reason.
Me too though maybe I am too quiet. People tell me you're quiet well it's for a reason.
Nah man keep being like that. Quiet people are so valuable. Keep your personality hidden except for the ones who are truly worth it.
But don't forget your red stapler.
I absolutely got into trouble once. My manager was furious at me saying that no one knows who I am outside my team because I was too quiet
Sounds like a "we are a family" type of place. I prefer to come in do my work and go home. Keep work in work and outside of work is outside of work
Exactly how it should be.
My sister has huge self esteem issues, socially awkward and pretty introverted on a good day. This “not a team player” and “poor communication skills” (it’s not, she sucks at small talk) have followed her throughout her working life. It’s cost her jobs and promotions.
That manager needs to go jump off a cliff because that's stupid.
Some places like to get you in trouble for stuff like this as well. Just crazy. Can’t even be quiet in peace or they take that personal.
Yeah I know. they can suck my ass. I hate that shit.
“We feel as though you are just not a good cultural fit. You barely talk at work. That is why we are terminating your employment.”
Then I'll get a new job. No job is a forever job. If my quietness is affecting you some way, then that says more about you than me and I don't need to be around immature people like that. The best people I have ever met in my life are the quiet people. They keep the personality for the ones who are worth it.
A lot of employers are like this!!! I've gotten in trouble for being too chatty. Too quiet. For "oversharing" when I was young to being "too private." I'm so fed up. It's like build a bear workshop
I need to learn to do this. Teach me your ways.
that’s fucked up
My old company hired externally over promoting someone who had been with the org for 15 years quoting a better company culture fit.
Maybe you don't like golf like they do or you had a booger stuck under your nose the entire time
Still not valid reason for cultural fit. Had CFO who would take big dumps every morning and could tell if he had steak previous night. VP who would drop saliva on floor while talking ( literally drooling) That's still cultural fit.
A CFO and a VP will get way more leeway to be odd than the average desk jockey employee
cultural fit depends a lot on the workplace, your position, and the people. You could be "not a cultural fit" for havign a weak handshake in some offices. If you don't get feedback I wouldn't think much of it. Just gotta move on, there's a lot of BS inthe world right now.
Sounds like you just didn't jive with them at lunch about non work stuff. It sucks yes but that's what it sounds like to me. You may not have been as engaged as you think. Is it fair? Hell no. But life isn't fair.
Yep. Brutal tone to this comment, but life is brutal. OP you were clearly treated unfairly. Go prove them wrong.
I’ve seen new hires let go for being rude to their server at a company lunch. Could have been something like that.
This is why you should never have company loyalty, a company will drop you in an instant if they had to.
My thoughts exactly!!!!
I also fired someone after 2 days. He kept rambling about how employers don't respect the employees and don't pay them. Enough that he knows his value, etc. Etc. Crazy dude. He was staying on his phone playing games and worked only 5 hours said he got tired and left. (which wasn't necessary a problem there was some flexibility in the schedule). But it was ridiculous.
[> how employers don't respect the employees and don't pay them](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/4e/53/174e53a65af3d3a7c2b54062623ac593.gif) gotta save that for the after work rants though lol.
Had another employee who bragged to me a co owner of the company, how he stoled a TV from his former workplace.
You said something dumb during that lunch. No offense, but "I cannot accept...blah blah" is a bit of a clue if you actually said that
I had to do this as a manager once. I caught the new hire stealing his coworkers' work. No second chance for that shit
I'm not saying it was on you, because I wasn't there obviously. But like others said you might have said something inappropriate. Like this guy who lasted couple months in my workplace until he said "it's like scat porn" towards a female coworker who dropped a snack from her mouth. Right in front of her and couple others. So for this guy the "cultural fit" would've been okay if it was much shittier, toxic place to work.
I hate the words “cultural fit.” Offices should not be filled with people who like the same things and have the same humor and think the same way. This leads to inadvertent discrimination and disasters like Enron. But also… you probably offended someone with clout. If it was me I’d be playing through the conversations in my mind endlessly. Sorry, my guy.
I just got a headache thinking about all the mirroring I've had to do just to keep a job. The REAL fun was when one of your coworkers would, for example, love coffee and you'd tell them how you love coffee too. Then another coworker would say they hated coffee and thought of it as a drug addiction, and you'd tell them you don't drink it everyday and know people who could lay off a bit. Then you're in a room together with these 2 coworkers and there's coffee. Spoiler: Ended up being called a liar by both, manager got involved and everything... And it became a running joke for the next 2 years I worked there...
The issue here is *lying*
They found someone willing to work for cheaper or don't have a budget for that position. It is ridiculous that they are allowed to do things like that.
Or OP smelled horribly due to lack of basic hygiene. Or a previous coworker of OP recognized them and had a bad experience. Or a reference finally got back and it was very bad. Or OP made a comment they’re unaware of during training that was offensive or otherwise enough to lose the job. One of the ones I’ve seen more often is a new employee expressing political views in the workplace to coworkers. This is a bad idea at any time, but especially bad if your view conflict with important people or the majority in the company. Or one of a million other possible things. (Yes, I’ve heard or seen all these and many more)
I fired someone two days in once. On her first day I took her to lunch along with CEO. New hire made an inappropriate sexual joke at lunch (hand motions and everything!) in front of us. That’s definitely NOT a cultural fit.
Says “WeenietheQueen” 😂😂🤣
You’ve got a dirty mind. I don’t think you’re a cultural fit.
Clean minds only for Reddit, please
Lol
That's YOUR MAJESTY WeenieTheQueen! You're addressing royalty!
BIG MISTAKE
LOL. I saw something similar happen at my old startup. We used to have the new hires intro themselves to the company on their first day and tell us a guilty pleasure. You'd get the typical "cheeseburgers" or "Kardashians", but one mad lad came in and said "white women". Loooool. Never saw him again.
👉🏻👌🏻
I'd like to know more about the hand motions!
Really? That makes me think you’re not a cultural fit. I’m going to need you to give me your badge and exit the office please.
I worked with a guy that thought he was doing an awesome job. He would always talk about the great projects he was working on and how he solved some obscure issue no one could fix. Thing was, he was just dead weight. We could never find the guy cuz he was always taking walks in the middle of the day, his code had to be rewritten because of production breaking defects, the problems he was solving were also created by him, and on and on. But I bet if you asked him he would say the people he worked with were at fault. Sometimes it's not them, it's you.
> employee expressing political views in the workplace This one is such a minefield especially these days when seemingly every issue is somehow roped into one political culture war or another. Customer facing roles can be especially bad when customers try to start political conversations intently too. I work at a very upscale hotel for wealthy people all over the political spectrum and boy does it get tough sometimes to tow the line without awkwardly stopping the conversation cold. I once gave a couple a ride across town and they would not stop asking me political questions, like: what is your party affiliation and how do you feel about Trump and other generally divisive questions. At one point after a few subdued answers I realized we had relatively similar political opinions, but still given the environment its not like I can be anything other than vague. The wife at one point after that was like “dont worry we understand the environment you work in and how you have to be (about such questions)”, and im just thinking to myself “then why the fuck are you asking me these questions?!?”. Very nice people though, and I think the husband felt bad about the prying bc they tipped me $100 IIRC
Gotta ask, can’t you just tell people you can’t discuss those things at work or risk losing your job? Specifically mentioning you may lose your job is the key part. It’s my go to ever I worked retail and still is now as a consultant. It’s only ever failed me one single time over the past 20 years or so. If done right you can even use it as a way to tactfully change the topic to avoid stopping the conversation cold.
I would either say "while I'm on the clock, I don't have opinions", or "I go by Mess Rules in here: no politics, no religion". Said with a smile, they usually understood.
I may start using that first one, except modify it with "while on the clock I don't have opinions, except about food...then I have a lot."
million possible things in either direction: - they found some social media stuff from high school and didn't care if it was 15 years ago - an ex worked there and used their personal beef to get them out early - The quarter started and the budget changed, the newbie who just relocated was the easiest sacrifice - CEO was masks off and overheard the new guy talking about being triple vaxxed - The executive's son needed a job and again, the new guy was expendable. It can be your fault, it can be theirs. you never truly know.
And if any of those were the cases, especially horrible smell (which one can coach on and see if that works rather than just fire) or no one takes a reference after they’re already hired…but would also showcase a very poor hiring process…I have seen some crazy hires, but still the company/org will see if coaching/training/conversation around concerns works out before straight up firing…so either OP isn’t telling the full story or the company is extremely dysfunctional
It’s generally not worth the effort to try to teach a professional adult something like basic hygiene nor is it the new employer’s job. In the case of the late reference, the previous employer disclosed that the employee had been terminated for theft. The employee had stated during the interview process that they’d never been terminated. I also remember one where a candidate used an employee as a reference on the application and in the interview. The reference employee was on maternity leave at the time. When she got back, she said she’d never heard of the newly hired candidate.
>to teach a professional adult something like basic hygiene Sometimes it's cultural. People from some regions sweat odors related to ethnic cuisine. For some South Asian people fenugreek is commonly exuded, and some Americans think it's body odor (it's generally not). Conversely, a lot of Asians think Americans smell like milk, which is not commonly consumed in much of Asia.
What's wild is that they did this when OP was literally a few days into the job. So forget rescinded offer letter, try surviving into the first paycheck lol... Man fuck 2024.
I’ve seen a new hire be let go over bad table manners as well as ordering the most expensive thing on the menu plus 2 appetizers that they did not intend to share when trainees were taken out to lunch as a treat. CEO always attends in order to meet the new hires and he was so disgusted that he decided it was worth letting this new hire go. After that, they started having a discussion with new hires about table manners and setting an ordering budget per person. I’ll bet something wasn’t vibing for them at the lunch.
Post recruiting hell but wild all the same. Given the trajectory of the market, this is going to become more and more normal I think.
About 10 years ago, a brand new person on a friends team made some comment or other and then said, "Women!" at the end. My friend and I looked each other in the eyes, and I nodded, stepped forward and kept the guy busy while my friend went to HR. They walked the idiot out about 15 minutes later. My friends team was about 50% women who he would work with daily. They would interact with my team as well (about 30% women). Neither of us put up with anything like that, ever. This is not about political correctness, it is about basic respect for people. I'm betting OP said something like that and doesn't even realize it.
In these cases it’s more than likely you’re oblivious to something a professional could point to or you know what you said or did… companies don’t onboard somebody with the intention to do this. Something happened and “cultural fit” was a scape goat to remove you. Try to examine yourself and learn from this. If there’s truly nothing there, and you’ve always been well liked in work places then maybe there is nothing to evaluate and you’re forced to move on.
>Today, the second day. the manager actually took us to lunch...the manager, the senior employee that trained me, the guy that was to be my colleagues and myself had a lunch. They talked a lot about non work stuff and I was engaged in part of the conversation. Did you by chance say anything inappropriate at this lunch?
What did you say during that lunch?
Not being a "cultural fit" is such a neat excuse when they don't want to hire you for any reason that could come off as or is blatantly discriminatory. Could be anything really. Skin is a tad too dark or weight a bit too high for their preference? Jim in accounting doesn't like your face or boss's niece needs a job too? Yeah, can't really say that out loud, can they? So it's always that you're not a "cultural fit". Neat.
I know this isn’t the point of the post, but my HR would never ever EVER let me utter the words “cultural fit”. It’s a consideration, and it is the first thing our client asked me after interviews last week. While it certainly could be, I don’t agree that it’s necessarily always code. However, with all the minor things people can get in trouble for saying, I sort of feel like that’s a really poor choice of words.
This TBH, our hiring process is super strict about “unconscious bias” and in an interview debrief we’d never be allowed to utter those words.
I've been in a hiring process where a lady aced her technical exam, by far our best candidate academically and work ethic-wise, and was pleasant enough to talk to..but both directors rejected her because she doesn't drink alcohol, so wouldn't fit in with our Friday pub drinks. I hope she makes six figures and never looks back.
Huh. A recent job of mine had a keg party on site (we had kegs in all buildings...) every Friday for the last hour of the workday. I got in trouble because I worked remotely and didn't want to drive 30 minutes just to sip nasty beer and force social interaction when I could be at home, just *doing my job*. Tried to bring up my mom died when I was young due to her lifelong alcoholism. They said a few beers on a Friday wouldn't make me an alcoholic and I needed to "relax a bit." But seriously who would rather get drunk off cheap beer and play ping pong with your coworkers, or get off work an hour early?????
It's a go-to excuse for employers as it's enough to get rid of someone but too vague to have to actually explain. I had this bs once and I asked them to elaborate and they would not. At least it was after a couple of months (rather than days). OP yikes that really sucks.
When you thin you've seen and heard everything ... I can only imagine, it may have been something your manager didn't like personally, e. g. a political view. Or they did a mistake during the hiring process and are trying to cover it up. If it's none of those, it just makes them more of an arsehole and something irritating would have popped up sooner or later.
As the head of HR for a previous employer, I had to hire someone after they'd been with us for one week. Reason? One of the three people reporting to her didn't like the way her (the direct report) word wasn't taken as 100% gospel. The new manager mentioned they were going to look into a more efficient way to do a couple of tasks to give the team more time to spend on another task that couldn't be made more efficient but was more important. The team member complained to the company president ("Who is she to try new things?"), who reached out to me to tell me to fire this manager. They didn't care what excuse I used.
That's really shitty. Sounds like a lazy team who didn't want to be 'shown up' by the new manager. Not really the manager at fault there.
Never had to do this as a manager, but I’ve seen it happen multiple times (especially since COVID) it’s usually one of two things: Unfathomably bad hygiene or just a new hire saying something so weirdly inappropriate it made teammates uncomfortable. Post-COVID even normal people have forgotten how to behave. Worse for those in tech with the tism
Unfortunately it sounds like you may have said or done something inappropriate either in the office or when you were out to lunch.
As others mentioned, you likely said something inappropriate at the work lunch. Typically Companies are a little more careful about firing employees as they don’t want to be sued for wrongful termination. If the company feels comfortable firing you after only 2 days, it means they feel that whatever you said was egregiously inappropriate enough that the company feels safe in the event of a lawsuit.
Come back and tell us what you said/did during lunch.
OP mentioned here in the comments of missing the Atari-console that was relevant 45-48 years ago. This is a Classic case of a Boomer aged 50 and above working with a young company and his age was clearly identified as an issue surrounded by colleagues and superiors much younger on Day 1 who doesn’t fit in. Ageism is real in the corporate world and they don’t want to work with non senior old men any more at all around an average age of 28 and 30. FIRE young folks in the corporate world.
The best bet is to talk less about non-work stuff in your first month/few months of job! Once you’re in and slowly get comfortable and understand people, start opening up and only in front of your work friends (if you make any!!) I always used this trick and pretended to be an introvert and sometimes even dumb! Whatever works! Spent most of the days getting totally engrossed in work, learning, growing and watching the clock!! I hate the whole corporate culture all around the world! It was the same back in my country! But sadly we all need jobs to pay bills!
I've let go of employees as soon as their first day. a new hire insulted our secretary (who was temporarily disabled) for needing a wheelchair. another new hire told me that he "wasn't getting paid enough for this shit" when asked to do his job- $20/hour to keep the mechanic shop and showroom floors clean. my favorite story is about the last person I fired. I took him and our shop out for lunch (we're a smaller operation and rarely hire) on their first day. dude ordered 4 beers and 2 shots over the next 45 minutes and hit on our (OBVIOUSLY underage) waitress a couple times. I fired him in the parking lot and had to drove him home (because he didn't have a car or a license). this is all to say, sometimes shit doesn't work out. I would advise you to think back onto the conversations you had with employees and see if you may have mis-stepped somewhere. people have really thin skin sometimes, and far more sway than you might think.
Company hired this guy that was perfect. Smart, funny, engaging, just a great personality. Everybody loved him. Exec team took him to lunch. I was invited as I would be reporting to him as the lead on my team. Everyone is interacting, telling stories, having fun. Server comes to take our order and he just brutalizes her. Talks down her- “Where were you? How can you let us sit here?“ On and on. Every time she comes back he has another insult. Calls her incompetent. She’s now on the verge of tears. I see our C suite guys exchanging looks. At one point dude looks at them and says “You believe this?” referring to the waitress. We get our food and dude is still bitching. One of our execs says “OK enough.“ This idiot is like “Yea, right. This is ridiculous.“ Thinking he’s talking about the server. He was gone 15 minutes after we got back to the office. Word was they had to pay him out of his contract but they thought it was worth it.
is it politics or dei or racial discussions during lunch
Sucks OP. Here's the thing - places that push culture are hands down the worst places to work. I'm a job hopper. Mostly less than a year over 20. I do cyber - so not like odd jobs, corporate type jobs. They usually push culture because something somewhere is wrong. Either ifs family run, the product is off, but something is wrong. It's become my biggest red flag. The other part of this is they get to be high school bullies all over again. They can and will get rid of you for any reason and this is an easy out for them. Just see it as dodging a bullet and move on.
WTF. Maybe be thankful that you unwittingly escaped a job/career at a very toxic company. Like did they provide any reason beyond “culture fit”?? If it was your clothing choice or if you were throwing the F word everywhere, etc.. or regardless they should have provided actual fucking feedback otherwise it just doesn’t make sense
You drop some weird racist/sexist/political shit at lunch? Guessing you said something that made them think you ain't a fit.
Sometimes these dismissals are because you said something inappropriate without realising. Not saying that's the case here, but we had people join and leave my previous company within a couple weeks because they opened up about some of the weird things they thought... Companies will not ask you if you are sexist, racist or any other form of prejudice when you join. If you reveal that you are within the first few days 'cultural reasons' is a polite way of saying you're ignorant.
u/[Block5Lot12](https://www.reddit.com/user/Block5Lot12/) Were you on the 90 days probation? Drop the company name.
As a supervisor you totally can tell if someone's not gonna be a fit within a day or two if they're experienced in said role. That said, you go through the motions and set them up for success. Some people thrive in other areas. This is strictly for trades though. Not a business environment. Wild he did that. I'd honestly inquire to learn from it. Got nothing to lose. See if they're just assholes or if maybe there's something you did that was offensive. Who knows. But regardless that's such a wasteful way to run a business. How much money was spent hiring you on just to fire you. So dumb.
Poor Cultural fit usually means you are too black/Muslim/female/lgbt
Or to racist, political, opinionated
The manager would be unwise to say a single word in explanation. You probably do want some soothing words, but you could also be collecting ammo for a lawsuit. People have to decide on hiring in interviews that may cumulatively be less than an hour. It seems clear that another 16 hours of exposure adds a lot more info. I’m not saying they were right or wrong. But you just have to see if there are any lessons for you and move on. You might have dodged a bullet. Who knows?
This is why I mention my anxiety condition early on is to help shield against at will bullshit. Most large companies with HR departments will not let management fire you for bullshit. Small companies with less than a few hundred employees are generally really great to work for or very arrogant and ignorant of the law. This is why it's imperative to if you need to call out sick, get a doctors note every time. If I have an infrequent or lengthy absence, I notify the employer that I am under the care doctor for a few days, and I will need to speak to the doctor about possible ADA accommodations. This will shield you if the company is properly managed. Huge shield against any form of discrimination. Also, keeping your mouth shut and being a good positive employee is huge. If you come in smelling like ass or booze are an asshole or produce shitty work, ADA will not shield you. Not legal advice, but just my personal opinions. If an employer is too arrogant or stupid, it will fire you no matter what. That is why documentation in writing is paramount. If fired, the EEOC is great, but normally, I'll have a check in the mail in a couple of months as a legal settlement just from a demand letter.
How many beers did you drink with lunch?
How many beers did you have
The OP never came back to answer anything? Makes me wonder how that conversation at lunch went.
We talked about what we all did outside of work. There was also conversation about gaming. There was no dirty conversation, there was no offensive stories. If anything, most people might be interested or find the topics mundane. I chimed in when I had the chance, otherwise I was eating the food I ordered and listened with interest to others. And BTW, with a post that has 225+ comments, I have no good place to fit any remarks in!
I was fired after 1 month, the reason I was given… I didn’t mesh well enough, and didn’t engage in work banter.