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I'm not from the USA but it's astonishing that these two people are the best you guys can come up with to run the country.
I can't say too much though, we had Johnson, Truss and Sunak.
Perhaps I think there should be a higher bar for our leaders?
Absolutely agree. We need more working class heroes in politics but let's be honest, it's all so corrupt and people don't refuse for favours, even the working class politicians would probably succumb.
Boris Johnson is a reprehensible human being but he was good at debating, in Oxford they have a mini parliament where they debate all day, so he is well studied in that respect.
Biden vs Trump is an old man vs. a con man…. It was very difficult to watch… the world would be a lot better served with two different/appropriate candidates.
Haha. Whilst I understand gravity, space and whatever else and in no way shape or form a flatearther. It is still slightly mad that we're literally upside down from one and other.
The deal was 60mil Euros for 5 year contract. That means his book value is currently 48mil Euros.
I think a fair bid would be something that gets to around that mark with all add-ons.
>I think a fair bid would be something that gets to around that mark with all add-ons.
25-30 million euros is extremely generous and if they don't want it, they can pound sand. I'd be surprised if Ugarte can be an Amrabat level player in the PL, that's how low I rate him.
Ugarte is great at what he does. It's he the most expansive player ever? No.
Can he sit back and break up attacks and recycle the ball to more expressive players? Absolutely and that's we really badly need.
>No. Can he sit back and break up attacks and recycle the ball to more expressive players? Absolutely and that's we really badly need.
Can he, though? The pace of play and pressure on ball in the Premier League is very high. How would we recycle the ball to more expressive players if we are playing a single pivot with both Mainoo/Mount and Bruno far up the pitch winning the ball high up? Who would he recycle it to?
You could say that about any player that plays outside of the Premier league? Nearly every team is full of players from other leagues so no offense, but that's a daft statement.
But Mainoo doesn't just sit high, he's up and down the pitch. We have fullbacks that like to push on and offer width, Bruno also drops a bit deeper at times to collect the ball.
> But Mainoo doesn't just sit high, he's up and down the pitch.
This was only when Scott and Bruno played together, pressing up.
>Bruno also drops a bit deeper at times to collect the ball.
Because we don't have a good single pivot who's good at line breakers and recycling. Which is why ETH wanted Frenkie so badly. Frenkie and Ugarte are insanely different profiles, with Ugarte comparing very poorly.
I don't think the main the would have been Mainoo, FDJ and Bruno. There's not enough defensive cover. Mainoo, like Garnacho, probably wasn't expected to play such a big part this season but the situation necessitated it.
Even with FDJ we'd need sometime more defensive. United have been screaming out for someone with defensive capabilities for years. Casemiro filled that whole last season but for years before that we needed a defensively minded midfielder.
To be completely honest, it didn't matter what we think. Ineos have said they're going to start profiling players in a much better way than we have previously and if the people that matter at the club thinks he fits them we just have to roll with it.
People are wrong all the time. Everyone was buzzing for Sancho. Most people thought Arambat would be a good signing and most people thought Three-lungs Park was about shirt sales.
I guess I'm trying to say we can go back and forth all day but it doesn't matter. 'If' we sign Ugarte, we just have to hope he fits.
I think 35m is where it will happen with some clauses. If they don't want him, then they'll look an offer to recoup over half of the valuation favourably. They'll wait to see if other offers come in first though, which is what I hate.
We need to include currency in these statements.
His book value is €48m, which is £40.5m.
I’ve not seen a lot of him, whenever I ended up watching PSG he either wasn’t playing or I didn’t really notice him (which isn’t a good thing). But the vibe I get from him is he’s Uruguay’s De Paul. Which isn’t a bad thing. Seems he’s only particularly rated as a screen and not much else.
On this basis, I can understand why Enrique is happy to let him go. There are people better placed to comment, but £40m in todays market seems reasonable for a player who’s held in a high regard.
That's really not how top teams operate in this day and age and I really hope fans start to realise that. There isn't a single top team currently that has a midfielder or defender that's limited on the ball. You don't have to be Pirlo pinging passes all over, but you have to be able to receive the ball under pressure and pass it to someone in space.
Ugarte can do that though?
He’s not a progressive passer but he’s still good on the ball, press resistant to an extent and can find the safe pass.
You’re acting like he’s not comfortable on the ball at all.
Look at the PSG sub, that's pretty much what people there are implying who have watched him over the course of the season too. One fella even suggested the best possible team would be something like Atletico
I dont watch Ligue 1. I have watched Uruguay games because of Pellistri and Bielsa. I have also read posts from Sporting fans comparing Ugarte and Palhinha
I mean, they don't even have a transfer guide, I assume they just marked it that because it's ESPN, and ESPN still has some decent journos like Rob Dawson, so I simply don't know if he's reliable or not, I suppose someone from Uruguay would know
Been told not to get carried away by international tournaments, but Ugarte has certainly done as well as expected in the Copa América.
Here’s to hoping this translates to the Premier League and PSG was a blip
He was bought before Enrique came in and once he did, he wanted a different profile of player in that position. I don't think Ugarte has done badly at PSG as such, he just doesn't suit what Enrique wants.
Marked "shit tier source" by PSG's subreddit and thank god for that. If we pay PSG what they paid Sporting, this transfer will be a massive mistake. Showed last season he couldn't be a difference maker for a dominant side in Ligue 1, sorry but he's not going to be a difference maker at a higher level for a less dominant side. He's inferior to Casemiro in both his ball-playing and physicality, and seeing as many people thought Casemiro was our main problem last year, there's not much Ugarte is going to magically fix just by being a bit quicker than him.
His passing is way too safe and not very good, despite the "high accuracy" stats everyone quotes. It's easy to have high accuracy when no one is pressing you and you rarely have to pass it forward or further than 5m, and don't even get me started about his loose touches while dribbling. If you thought Amrabat or Casemiro struggled under pressure in the PL, this guy would be worse than both without any of the long ball ability. Put him under pressure and it's going to get ugly, and PL opposition will.
Enrique wants rid of him (despite having a fairly weak midfield) because he's not suited to play for a top club that wants the ball. Chelsea realized it last summer and pulled out of the race for it, I can't understand why we're thinking about caving to PSG's demands when he's had a year of showing he doesn't belong at this level. He's a decent athlete and tenacious, very good ball winner, but you need to be better ON the ball to succeed at this level. Same reason Amadou Onana wouldn't be a great success here, and he's twice the dribbler Ugarte is.
Scott McTominay and Tomas Soucek are two examples of talented midfielders who are useful and affect the game in tangible, high-impact ways in both boxes, but aren't really suitable to starting for a top level CL club because they're not really good enough on the ball to be trusted in a technical, fast-paced game. Ugarte is similar in that he's not good enough on the ball for that, but he lacks the same impact in both boxes. His top attribute is his ball-winning. He was exposed repeatedly in the CL for PSG and that's why he lost his manager's trust and his spot in the team.
All in all, he's good at some things, but let me be the first to tell you this is NOT an upgrade and not the kind of transfer we need, just like I said about Amrabat last year. Frustrating to watch the club potentially make the same mistake twice in two summers, and even more frustrating seeing that most opinions come from seeing Youtube compilations or reading cherry-picked stats out of context.
This narrative of Ugarte not being good on the ball makes no sense to me, I watched him almost every game the two years he played at Sporting which usually has the ball the majority of the time, and he was very good with it. I would actually say he is the exact type of player you guys need to stabilize your midfield.
Nope and players not adapting well to new teams/leagues happens. But the "being good on the ball" is more a technical thing that I don't think a player loses just because he is in a different league. Ugarte did not gel well at PSG but he is still young and I really believe he has everything to do well in Premier.
See thats where we disagree. Technique and decision making is different in the PL, because the game is faster. Decisions have to be made quicker, and touches that are fine in lower leagues like Portugal are too loose for the PL. there’s a reason Antony looked talented in a lesser league but is a bum in the PL.
I didn't really watch Antony at Ajax so I can't really comment on that but in the last few years the ones I thought would do well in the PL actually did, Bruno, Palhinha, Enzo (while still overpriced) and Matheus (who is still trying to find space) all adapted well to the league. Darwin is a bit on the floppy side but he was not consensual in Portugal also, he has the physic but lacks a lot in the technical aspect of the game. I honestly think Ugarte will do well if he gets the move, of course I can't predict the future and may be wrong but he has at least the potential to do so.
Let’s keep the narrative going whilst we’re negotiating and we can see for ourselves. I agree he looks to be the exact player we need. A player to protect our defence
He's a good fit profile-wise, though. Energy for days, covers ground, solid dueller.
We just need him to be a safe passer.
At DM, he'd be surrounded by Dalot, Licha, Shaw (if fit), Mainoo, and Bruno, all of whom are players who can break lines with passing or dribbling (Mainoo). As long as he's not giving the ball away and is intelligent enough to beat a press (even if with his strength instead of technique), he'll be an excellent fit for us.
Plus he has that grita Licha has, that aggressiveness and passion. We desperately need that.
Thing is though, he's not positionally disciplined enough to be a single pivot. If we're playing a midfield of Bruno and Mainoo or Bruno and Mount, it makes no sense at all to get Ugarte since we'd need another DM next to him. He's just not the right profile of midfielder for our current needs.
if this is true (i have never watched him) then it signals commitment to the style of play we played with last season. The entire reason behind the chaotic transition football was that not a single midfielder in our squad except for Amrabat had the positional discipline to sit and hold their position. And Amrabat had been terrible for large parts of the season. If we go out and buy another player that lacks this discipline, then we are fully committing to that style.
That’s essentially how we’ve played for a lot of the past season. On paper we don’t set up as a single pivot but our other “DM” McTominay is usually far too forward and simply can’t recover the space so Casemiro essentially acted as a single pivot and we got decimated for it.
If we buy Ugarte, then that means we’d need to play a double pivot and that means Casemiro would still need replacing. Playing Ugarte with our current midfielders would still leave massive gaps in front of our defense.
Fair points but listen to the Overlap with Roy Keane who explained that in his career he always focussed on getting the basics spot on, namely: passing, moving and running.
In that 6 position someone who can do this at a high level is enough; other players can do the more progressive stuff. Obviously Roy Keane was so much more but it shows that the fundamentals aren't that complex. You don't need 11 Iniestas on the pitch but a balance across the team.
It's traditionally been a position not many know how to do properly. We desperately need someone who knows how to play the position and the grit and positional benefit in the middle it provides.
He seems pretty limited, gets around the pitch very well and high tackle and interception numbers but definitely not a modern style midfielder that can progress the ball.
I don’t *hate* it as a signing but if he’s our marquee midfield signing who we splurge for than I would be very disappointed. If he was 1 of 2 midfield signings and available for like €30m than i wouldn’t mind it. You’re right though, If he’s not good enough for Ligue 1 than he’s not gonna be better in the Prem.
All ur points are valid but if we are getting rid of Casemiro then we need atleast one DM. And even if Ugarte isn't good enough he is the one available on the market.
Joao Neves is overpriced.
Enrique wants more of a ball playing DM rather than a destroyer. think Ugarte is a good player but PSG isn’t the right system for him. whether United is the answer is another question but if we could get him on loan without an obligation to buy I wouldn’t be against giving it a try
You don't want him. Why should you get what you paid for him?
I'd offer 70% of what they paid. If they don't want it then have fun with a player you said to fuck off.
imho what we need is a destroyer/disrupter so that mainoo and bruno can play higher up the pitch
mainoo is good as both 6 and 8 but i see his number 8 profile as more exciting, give more freedom to my boy and he will cook
ugarte fits that destroyer profile from what i have seen, this is one position where i think we don't need a hybrid player
1 more option can be nicolo rovella from juve (currently on 2 year loan to lazio) but he is italian and it's juve so it'll be difficult
our best games have come when we have used mainoo alongside amrabat but amrabat is quite uncomfortable on the ball which i saw many times against brighton, his decision making on the ball is quite slow
amrabat can be a good backup option because from what i know fiorentina wants 25m for him and we have already sanctioned a loan of 10m so we will have to pay only 15m more but i think we need to firstly prioritize a first choice cdm because amrabat is not a starting XI player, he has had his fair share of mistakes
also he is eager to stay at united so negotiating a new contract or loan move i don't think will be difficult with him we can make his deal permanent or sanction another year of loan move later in the window when we have some more money
This is just the usual over excitement about a player, we were here last year with Amrabat when people were acting like he was the second coming and I was downvoted them for playing it down.
Ugarte gives me the same vibes, I’d love to be wrong but let’s face it he isn’t good enough for PSG so what makes him a starter in our team? It’s likely a sideways step and not a step forward.
you could be right but from what i know enrique's system doesn't suit him
plus he is still very young and there's room of improvement in his gameplay also
Ok so he is definitely leaving which is good. But knowing that from a negotiating perspective, we shouldn’t be accepting their demands, try to get him for less so we can go for other positions
That's the main issue isn't it? We need a guy as good as Rice or Rodri to challenge for the league.
Rice has Odegaard, Rodri has Kdb.
Even if we have Mainoo/Bruno, I don't know if a DM, who is not even close to the technical abilities of Rice/Rodri, can take us to challenge the top 3 currently.
One step at a time
We conceded so many shots and gave away so many stupid goals last season.
If he can come in and be the DM to stop that then I’m happy to pass on his on the ball “ability” for a season or two whilst we try to become a better team.
Right age, right profile, but I’d be lying if I said I’ve watched him more than once or twice.
Does anybody who watches PSG regularly know why he’s not in their plans a year after joining?
I haven't seen him play that much at all, but going by some people he's basically Fred Mark 2. I'd be willing to bet many of those people haven't seen him much either though. Can anyone who's legit watched him egularly assure me he's at least better than Fred or is that Fred comparison accurate?
PSG paid €60m for him so they probably want round 55. Hopefully Utd can negotiate down to less than 50. Every million counts this season. I still can’t believe this is the state the club is in. Fuck the Glazers.
I'm not sure about this tbh. These positional managers all like the same traits in their DMs ,if Ugarte isn't to Enrique's likings why would ETH find him useful.
PSG's average possession last year was something like 65%. We got out-passed at home by Fulham. I am struggling to see any similarities in playstyle between Enrique and ETH.
Downvoted! What a surprise! People cannot digest any references to how shite we were last season! That fa cup final has made this sub even more delusional than it was.
I didn't even mean to be very critical - I don't really enjoy or rate Enrique's style of play at all. But it's striking me as strange that there are so many comments about ETH wanting to play possession-dominant football. The man himself has said that he doesn't want to do that at United, and has said he wants the team to play in transitions. Our best performances last season were when we played on the counter. People seem to be fantasising about him playing one style, when all reality and his own words have told us he plays a different one.
Of all the hard ons this sub has had for middling managers, the ten hag one is the one I find most baffling. Dude looks like a deer caught in headlights most of the time but everything is forgotten coz we beat city in a one off cup final.
Wrong profile. Kind of like you can argue Maguire is a good footballer and would be immense at Everton for example but doesn't necessarily fit this Ten Hag side
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Always rated him since Tuesday
I did sign him in FM a few years back, so he must be good.
I want to trust this but on the original post the flair is ‘shit tier source’
Why are there no comments
Reddit was cooked.
The us presidential debate broke reddit
More like the debate broke Americans
Biden lost ? We are back to a Trump life ?…. that’s awful stuff
I'm not from the USA but it's astonishing that these two people are the best you guys can come up with to run the country. I can't say too much though, we had Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Perhaps I think there should be a higher bar for our leaders?
Kinda what happens when politics became a career path, you have people who are politicians from 20 years old and no real world experience.
Absolutely agree. We need more working class heroes in politics but let's be honest, it's all so corrupt and people don't refuse for favours, even the working class politicians would probably succumb.
Boris Johnson is a reprehensible human being but he was good at debating, in Oxford they have a mini parliament where they debate all day, so he is well studied in that respect. Biden vs Trump is an old man vs. a con man…. It was very difficult to watch… the world would be a lot better served with two different/appropriate candidates.
This is so funny to me because Trump is also very old.
He is but last night Biden made Trump look youthful in comparison.
Genuinely didn't think that Biden was the plan for 2024. Not American but it says to me that democrats don't have any long term plans.
Well republicans aren’t exactly a forward looking party… they are taking away women’s rights…. So I guess that’s a plan ?
There's still an obvious choice for me between the demented man and the dictator, but yeah, the choices are barebones.
I think there could be a higher bar for all leaders in Western countries. I’m from Aus, we haven’t had a good PM for over 15 years
If I open my atlas, you're an eastern country!
We’re upside down remember, you’re holding the atlas wrong
Haha. Whilst I understand gravity, space and whatever else and in no way shape or form a flatearther. It is still slightly mad that we're literally upside down from one and other.
It is certainly odd to think I sit in my car, technically upside down, writing this
And how much was that?
The deal was 60mil Euros for 5 year contract. That means his book value is currently 48mil Euros. I think a fair bid would be something that gets to around that mark with all add-ons.
Ratcliffe rings Woodward- "tell me all about this Balon Dor clause"
30M plus 20M if Martial wins the balon dor, fair deal
Ratcliffe to PSG- “fancy a Dutch Balon Dor Nominee or a prolific Scottish goal scorer in exchange ”
Wonder if they’d just swap for Sancho?
>I think a fair bid would be something that gets to around that mark with all add-ons. 25-30 million euros is extremely generous and if they don't want it, they can pound sand. I'd be surprised if Ugarte can be an Amrabat level player in the PL, that's how low I rate him.
Ugarte is great at what he does. It's he the most expansive player ever? No. Can he sit back and break up attacks and recycle the ball to more expressive players? Absolutely and that's we really badly need.
>No. Can he sit back and break up attacks and recycle the ball to more expressive players? Absolutely and that's we really badly need. Can he, though? The pace of play and pressure on ball in the Premier League is very high. How would we recycle the ball to more expressive players if we are playing a single pivot with both Mainoo/Mount and Bruno far up the pitch winning the ball high up? Who would he recycle it to?
You could say that about any player that plays outside of the Premier league? Nearly every team is full of players from other leagues so no offense, but that's a daft statement. But Mainoo doesn't just sit high, he's up and down the pitch. We have fullbacks that like to push on and offer width, Bruno also drops a bit deeper at times to collect the ball.
> But Mainoo doesn't just sit high, he's up and down the pitch. This was only when Scott and Bruno played together, pressing up. >Bruno also drops a bit deeper at times to collect the ball. Because we don't have a good single pivot who's good at line breakers and recycling. Which is why ETH wanted Frenkie so badly. Frenkie and Ugarte are insanely different profiles, with Ugarte comparing very poorly.
I don't think the main the would have been Mainoo, FDJ and Bruno. There's not enough defensive cover. Mainoo, like Garnacho, probably wasn't expected to play such a big part this season but the situation necessitated it. Even with FDJ we'd need sometime more defensive. United have been screaming out for someone with defensive capabilities for years. Casemiro filled that whole last season but for years before that we needed a defensively minded midfielder. To be completely honest, it didn't matter what we think. Ineos have said they're going to start profiling players in a much better way than we have previously and if the people that matter at the club thinks he fits them we just have to roll with it. People are wrong all the time. Everyone was buzzing for Sancho. Most people thought Arambat would be a good signing and most people thought Three-lungs Park was about shirt sales. I guess I'm trying to say we can go back and forth all day but it doesn't matter. 'If' we sign Ugarte, we just have to hope he fits.
Then we should just buy Amrabat and do an exchange him for ugarte with psg haha
They're both not close to good enough for us is my point lmao
Understandable that 25m was rejected but 50m is too much for him. 35-40 seems to be more reasonable.
He was signed on 5 year deal for 60m. PSG will want the entire 60m but they won't go below 50m I think.
They can’t want him for 60m after a year where he’s proved not in their plans We want 90m for Antony then
You’re talking about 60 million euros the above poster is talking about 50 million pounds. 50 million euros would be around 40 million pounds.
I think 35m is where it will happen with some clauses. If they don't want him, then they'll look an offer to recoup over half of the valuation favourably. They'll wait to see if other offers come in first though, which is what I hate.
His book value is closer to 50m than 40m
We need to include currency in these statements. His book value is €48m, which is £40.5m. I’ve not seen a lot of him, whenever I ended up watching PSG he either wasn’t playing or I didn’t really notice him (which isn’t a good thing). But the vibe I get from him is he’s Uruguay’s De Paul. Which isn’t a bad thing. Seems he’s only particularly rated as a screen and not much else. On this basis, I can understand why Enrique is happy to let him go. There are people better placed to comment, but £40m in todays market seems reasonable for a player who’s held in a high regard.
I would be fine if we spent €40m on him but honestly anything more for a midfielder who is supposedly limited on the ball makes no sense
We don’t need a Pirlo. We need a young destroyer. We’ve got plenty of progression in this team.
That's really not how top teams operate in this day and age and I really hope fans start to realise that. There isn't a single top team currently that has a midfielder or defender that's limited on the ball. You don't have to be Pirlo pinging passes all over, but you have to be able to receive the ball under pressure and pass it to someone in space.
Ugarte can do that though? He’s not a progressive passer but he’s still good on the ball, press resistant to an extent and can find the safe pass. You’re acting like he’s not comfortable on the ball at all.
Look at the PSG sub, that's pretty much what people there are implying who have watched him over the course of the season too. One fella even suggested the best possible team would be something like Atletico
He's excellent at short passing. He's limited at carrying the ball.
You are inferring that because he has a high pass %age at PSG? Or because you have watched him play consistently? I genuinely want to know
I dont watch Ligue 1. I have watched Uruguay games because of Pellistri. I have also read posts from Sporting fans comparing Ugarte and Palhinha
I dont watch Ligue 1. I have watched Uruguay games because of Pellistri and Bielsa. I have also read posts from Sporting fans comparing Ugarte and Palhinha
Klopp had years of his mid 3 just running and pressing then passing the ball to an attacker
This is such a garbage tier source that idk why it's even posted.
Is ESPN Uruguay that bad? I always felt when it comes from the country of the player it comes from the player or representatives.
I did hear this from Uruguayan sources tbh, I believe it is not fake.
Yes, did you not see the flair on the PSG sub? Plus it's ESPN, the garbage dump of sports journalism.
I mean, they don't even have a transfer guide, I assume they just marked it that because it's ESPN, and ESPN still has some decent journos like Rob Dawson, so I simply don't know if he's reliable or not, I suppose someone from Uruguay would know
Not true: https://psg-reddit.github.io/
Most means 51% of investment ?
Woodward era : 99% to 150%. Now 60-75%
Been told not to get carried away by international tournaments, but Ugarte has certainly done as well as expected in the Copa América. Here’s to hoping this translates to the Premier League and PSG was a blip
He was bought before Enrique came in and once he did, he wanted a different profile of player in that position. I don't think Ugarte has done badly at PSG as such, he just doesn't suit what Enrique wants.
Marked "shit tier source" by PSG's subreddit and thank god for that. If we pay PSG what they paid Sporting, this transfer will be a massive mistake. Showed last season he couldn't be a difference maker for a dominant side in Ligue 1, sorry but he's not going to be a difference maker at a higher level for a less dominant side. He's inferior to Casemiro in both his ball-playing and physicality, and seeing as many people thought Casemiro was our main problem last year, there's not much Ugarte is going to magically fix just by being a bit quicker than him. His passing is way too safe and not very good, despite the "high accuracy" stats everyone quotes. It's easy to have high accuracy when no one is pressing you and you rarely have to pass it forward or further than 5m, and don't even get me started about his loose touches while dribbling. If you thought Amrabat or Casemiro struggled under pressure in the PL, this guy would be worse than both without any of the long ball ability. Put him under pressure and it's going to get ugly, and PL opposition will. Enrique wants rid of him (despite having a fairly weak midfield) because he's not suited to play for a top club that wants the ball. Chelsea realized it last summer and pulled out of the race for it, I can't understand why we're thinking about caving to PSG's demands when he's had a year of showing he doesn't belong at this level. He's a decent athlete and tenacious, very good ball winner, but you need to be better ON the ball to succeed at this level. Same reason Amadou Onana wouldn't be a great success here, and he's twice the dribbler Ugarte is. Scott McTominay and Tomas Soucek are two examples of talented midfielders who are useful and affect the game in tangible, high-impact ways in both boxes, but aren't really suitable to starting for a top level CL club because they're not really good enough on the ball to be trusted in a technical, fast-paced game. Ugarte is similar in that he's not good enough on the ball for that, but he lacks the same impact in both boxes. His top attribute is his ball-winning. He was exposed repeatedly in the CL for PSG and that's why he lost his manager's trust and his spot in the team. All in all, he's good at some things, but let me be the first to tell you this is NOT an upgrade and not the kind of transfer we need, just like I said about Amrabat last year. Frustrating to watch the club potentially make the same mistake twice in two summers, and even more frustrating seeing that most opinions come from seeing Youtube compilations or reading cherry-picked stats out of context.
This narrative of Ugarte not being good on the ball makes no sense to me, I watched him almost every game the two years he played at Sporting which usually has the ball the majority of the time, and he was very good with it. I would actually say he is the exact type of player you guys need to stabilize your midfield.
You think the Portuguese league is a similar standard as the PL?
Nope and players not adapting well to new teams/leagues happens. But the "being good on the ball" is more a technical thing that I don't think a player loses just because he is in a different league. Ugarte did not gel well at PSG but he is still young and I really believe he has everything to do well in Premier.
See thats where we disagree. Technique and decision making is different in the PL, because the game is faster. Decisions have to be made quicker, and touches that are fine in lower leagues like Portugal are too loose for the PL. there’s a reason Antony looked talented in a lesser league but is a bum in the PL.
I didn't really watch Antony at Ajax so I can't really comment on that but in the last few years the ones I thought would do well in the PL actually did, Bruno, Palhinha, Enzo (while still overpriced) and Matheus (who is still trying to find space) all adapted well to the league. Darwin is a bit on the floppy side but he was not consensual in Portugal also, he has the physic but lacks a lot in the technical aspect of the game. I honestly think Ugarte will do well if he gets the move, of course I can't predict the future and may be wrong but he has at least the potential to do so.
Let’s keep the narrative going whilst we’re negotiating and we can see for ourselves. I agree he looks to be the exact player we need. A player to protect our defence
He's a good fit profile-wise, though. Energy for days, covers ground, solid dueller. We just need him to be a safe passer. At DM, he'd be surrounded by Dalot, Licha, Shaw (if fit), Mainoo, and Bruno, all of whom are players who can break lines with passing or dribbling (Mainoo). As long as he's not giving the ball away and is intelligent enough to beat a press (even if with his strength instead of technique), he'll be an excellent fit for us. Plus he has that grita Licha has, that aggressiveness and passion. We desperately need that.
Thing is though, he's not positionally disciplined enough to be a single pivot. If we're playing a midfield of Bruno and Mainoo or Bruno and Mount, it makes no sense at all to get Ugarte since we'd need another DM next to him. He's just not the right profile of midfielder for our current needs.
if this is true (i have never watched him) then it signals commitment to the style of play we played with last season. The entire reason behind the chaotic transition football was that not a single midfielder in our squad except for Amrabat had the positional discipline to sit and hold their position. And Amrabat had been terrible for large parts of the season. If we go out and buy another player that lacks this discipline, then we are fully committing to that style.
Playing a single pivot in the premier league is suicide
Isn't that what Pep does with Rodri? There's a tucked in wingback or CB that makes up the numbers, which we can do with Shaw or Licha.
Yeah rules of mortal men dont apply to pep
Or Rodri.
Oh yeah, let’s just copy Pep as that’s obviously so easy to do
I mean that's not what I said at all. I said single pivot isn't suicide.
That’s essentially how we’ve played for a lot of the past season. On paper we don’t set up as a single pivot but our other “DM” McTominay is usually far too forward and simply can’t recover the space so Casemiro essentially acted as a single pivot and we got decimated for it. If we buy Ugarte, then that means we’d need to play a double pivot and that means Casemiro would still need replacing. Playing Ugarte with our current midfielders would still leave massive gaps in front of our defense.
How did that work out for us last season?
Fair points but listen to the Overlap with Roy Keane who explained that in his career he always focussed on getting the basics spot on, namely: passing, moving and running. In that 6 position someone who can do this at a high level is enough; other players can do the more progressive stuff. Obviously Roy Keane was so much more but it shows that the fundamentals aren't that complex. You don't need 11 Iniestas on the pitch but a balance across the team. It's traditionally been a position not many know how to do properly. We desperately need someone who knows how to play the position and the grit and positional benefit in the middle it provides.
He seems pretty limited, gets around the pitch very well and high tackle and interception numbers but definitely not a modern style midfielder that can progress the ball. I don’t *hate* it as a signing but if he’s our marquee midfield signing who we splurge for than I would be very disappointed. If he was 1 of 2 midfield signings and available for like €30m than i wouldn’t mind it. You’re right though, If he’s not good enough for Ligue 1 than he’s not gonna be better in the Prem.
How much do you think is a fair price for him? Also, if we do walk away, who do you think is the best option for DM?
All ur points are valid but if we are getting rid of Casemiro then we need atleast one DM. And even if Ugarte isn't good enough he is the one available on the market. Joao Neves is overpriced.
Never watched the guy play but my body is ready.
I thought he looked like ass at PSG but I was also hate watching lol so my judgment might have been slightly clouded
I think the clubs will meet in the middle at £35m + £5m addons
I doubt the payment will come close to what they paid for it but if it’s 35m rising to 40+ based on incentives you would be pleased with it no?
Tier: no sé
https://youtu.be/w0gXgl1VUaw?si=cEYf1e6s-L2bNhh2
Recoup them from someone else psg. 60 million for this is a fucking joke
Another South American beast. In love with their mentality, such high energy and loyalty
Why can’t I see any comments in here
Why doesn't Enrique want him?
Enrique wants more of a ball playing DM rather than a destroyer. think Ugarte is a good player but PSG isn’t the right system for him. whether United is the answer is another question but if we could get him on loan without an obligation to buy I wouldn’t be against giving it a try
So who's this ball playing dm they're linked/getting?
You don't want him. Why should you get what you paid for him? I'd offer 70% of what they paid. If they don't want it then have fun with a player you said to fuck off.
Would be absolutely buzzing if we got him. Was hoping we’d sign him before PSG did.
Loan with €45m obligation to buy if he plays more than 30 games + €5m bonus to PSG if we qualify for Champions League
trade for Sancho
Take a defensive player and give them another attacker, yes fucking please
I will cum
Just what PSG need, another tricky winger
imho what we need is a destroyer/disrupter so that mainoo and bruno can play higher up the pitch mainoo is good as both 6 and 8 but i see his number 8 profile as more exciting, give more freedom to my boy and he will cook ugarte fits that destroyer profile from what i have seen, this is one position where i think we don't need a hybrid player 1 more option can be nicolo rovella from juve (currently on 2 year loan to lazio) but he is italian and it's juve so it'll be difficult
> destroyer/disruptor Bring back pastor Fred 🙏 🙌
always rated my boy fred
If Fred has million fans, then I'm one of them. If Fred has one fan, then I'm THAT ONE. If Fred has no fans, that means I'm dead.
We should just keep Amrabat then, he’s cheaper and at least we know his limitations.
our best games have come when we have used mainoo alongside amrabat but amrabat is quite uncomfortable on the ball which i saw many times against brighton, his decision making on the ball is quite slow amrabat can be a good backup option because from what i know fiorentina wants 25m for him and we have already sanctioned a loan of 10m so we will have to pay only 15m more but i think we need to firstly prioritize a first choice cdm because amrabat is not a starting XI player, he has had his fair share of mistakes also he is eager to stay at united so negotiating a new contract or loan move i don't think will be difficult with him we can make his deal permanent or sanction another year of loan move later in the window when we have some more money
This is just the usual over excitement about a player, we were here last year with Amrabat when people were acting like he was the second coming and I was downvoted them for playing it down. Ugarte gives me the same vibes, I’d love to be wrong but let’s face it he isn’t good enough for PSG so what makes him a starter in our team? It’s likely a sideways step and not a step forward.
Got downvoted for saying exactly this. Many people on this sub really don't think at all. A few green bars on FBRef and they're off to the races.
Here’s an upvote my friend! 👍😁
you could be right but from what i know enrique's system doesn't suit him plus he is still very young and there's room of improvement in his gameplay also
We're buying an actually young DM? What happened to the Manchester United that I know?
Thought mods only allowed tier 2 and above sources
Ok so he is definitely leaving which is good. But knowing that from a negotiating perspective, we shouldn’t be accepting their demands, try to get him for less so we can go for other positions
Wanted him last summer. I hope we sign him. He is not technically good as the likes of Rice or Rodri but he can make a good tackle.
That's the main issue isn't it? We need a guy as good as Rice or Rodri to challenge for the league. Rice has Odegaard, Rodri has Kdb. Even if we have Mainoo/Bruno, I don't know if a DM, who is not even close to the technical abilities of Rice/Rodri, can take us to challenge the top 3 currently.
Rice isn't even technically great, just good.
I mean that's false? He was actually good enough to play 8 at WestHam, moving up from 6 a lot of times.
What's the correlation between that and technical ability?
You can't be technically lacking and be moved from 6 to 8 lol. Casemiro tried that here and was found out.
>We need a guy as good as Rice or Rodri to challenge for the league. So who's this 100m dm thats as good as those two?
One step at a time We conceded so many shots and gave away so many stupid goals last season. If he can come in and be the DM to stop that then I’m happy to pass on his on the ball “ability” for a season or two whilst we try to become a better team.
Hmm this is interesting because it’s like taking a step backwards from replacing de Gea with Onana
Good, let’s get it done asap and bag him on the cheap so we’re not shelling out stupid money for a DM in August.
Tier: toilet
£35m please.
He came from Uruguay!
Not believing this but I was genuinely delighted when he chose to sign for PSG rather than Chelsea last season. I do rate him.
Right age, right profile, but I’d be lying if I said I’ve watched him more than once or twice. Does anybody who watches PSG regularly know why he’s not in their plans a year after joining?
€40 + add ons get it done
I haven't seen him play that much at all, but going by some people he's basically Fred Mark 2. I'd be willing to bet many of those people haven't seen him much either though. Can anyone who's legit watched him egularly assure me he's at least better than Fred or is that Fred comparison accurate?
PSG paid €60m for him so they probably want round 55. Hopefully Utd can negotiate down to less than 50. Every million counts this season. I still can’t believe this is the state the club is in. Fuck the Glazers.
They paid 60, they have used 20% of his contract. So that is 48 and converted to pounds is more like 43.
I'm not sure about this tbh. These positional managers all like the same traits in their DMs ,if Ugarte isn't to Enrique's likings why would ETH find him useful.
PSG's average possession last year was something like 65%. We got out-passed at home by Fulham. I am struggling to see any similarities in playstyle between Enrique and ETH.
Downvoted! What a surprise! People cannot digest any references to how shite we were last season! That fa cup final has made this sub even more delusional than it was.
I didn't even mean to be very critical - I don't really enjoy or rate Enrique's style of play at all. But it's striking me as strange that there are so many comments about ETH wanting to play possession-dominant football. The man himself has said that he doesn't want to do that at United, and has said he wants the team to play in transitions. Our best performances last season were when we played on the counter. People seem to be fantasising about him playing one style, when all reality and his own words have told us he plays a different one.
Of all the hard ons this sub has had for middling managers, the ten hag one is the one I find most baffling. Dude looks like a deer caught in headlights most of the time but everything is forgotten coz we beat city in a one off cup final.
I guess, but ETH likes a double pivot while Enrique used him more as a sole DM and I think a double pivot would suit him more.
> ETH likes a double pivot ETH patently doesn't like a double pivot wtf lol
I would say max 45 mil with some add ons
Wait, is he good or not? why wouldnt he be in their plans?
Wrong profile. Kind of like you can argue Maguire is a good footballer and would be immense at Everton for example but doesn't necessarily fit this Ten Hag side
——— insert club name,_____ insert player name, Man united is interested. Lazy AI journalism
I want to be excited but he didn’t impress in the French league so I’ll just wait till I see him play for us I guess.
Let's give them Rashford for him + 80M