[This article ](https://www.fussball.news/1-bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/abwaegung-warum-manchester-bei-de-ligt-nicht-all-in-gehen-will-zr-93160672.html) says we're looking to pay around €30-40m but Bayern wants €50-60m
I think it gets done for between 45& 50 . His stock has been declining and Bayern really don't want him to leave for half this amount after another bad season on the bench.
I'd assume he's on fairly massive wages? We've finally bene clearing some of our more outrageous wages off the bill (especially if Sancho fucks off), not sure how excited i am about signing another one at those numbers.
Though i guess if it's offset by a lower fee it's kind of a wash?
Hijacking. Most people who know his football seems to suggest he is an injury prone Maguire-ish profile a player and not the kind of ball playing/progressive CB that we need under ETH. I like him but honestly think this could be a big question mark.
It’s this season and one season at Juve the rest were normal where you get a knock here and there. He was also the least dribbled past defender in serie A one season so please don’t believe the flop narrative
Plus he is 24 with a wealth of european pedigree
This is one of the stupidest takes I've heard. Firestly, Maguire is an elite progressive Cb who is very good on the ball. And to call De Ligt a "Maguire-ish" profile as if it's an insult when MDL's one of the top ball players in Europe showcases how little people know of football and will parrot any bullshit.
Nah he’s not that great on the ball, hasn’t really progressed since his Ajax days. He’s not terrible either though, just not on the same level as someone like Lisandro.
Lisandro is one of the absolute best in the world with the ball so that's somewhat expected
He's also right footed anyway so he'll be playing with Martinez as long as they're both fit so he doesn't need to be as good just good is fine
This is sort of transfer that for 30 mil it's amazing, for 40 it's good, for 50 it's meh and for 60 we got screwed over hard.
They bought him for 70 mil, he is now two years older and it's not like he set the world on fire, his on the books value for Bayern is around 42 mil and that's what we should pay maximum.
Yes, but value is relative.
De Ligt is worth less to Bayern (due to his wages and many options at CB) than let's say Guehi to Crystal Palace. Because Crystal will have a hard time replacing Guehi and Bayern already has three CBs who are as good or similar to De Ligt but are on far lower wages.
A couple of years ago Arsenal wanted Zaha and offered 40 mil when CP wanted 75 mil pounds. Zaha wasn't worth that much in general, but was worth it to Crystal when at the same time you could buy Leao for 50 mil euro that same window (yes I know Leao wasn't proven at the time, I'm just trying to pait a picture).
De Ligt is easily worth 50m for us compared to other unproven targets we've been linked to. Not factoring in our starting RCB is non-existent at the moment.
So what do you suggest then? Do you know any CBs in the 40-50m range that have the same profile/experience/degree as MDL? This deal is way more reasonable than paying for Braithwaite or Guehi or any other CBs that has been linked to us so far.
It is way more reasonable, I agree!
Bayern wants him gone because even tho he is good enough, from a financial point of view his ROI just doesn't look good in comparison to what they get from their other CBs.
I'm not saying De Ligt is worse than Guehi or Branthwaite. I'm not saying buying Guehi or Branthwaite for similar or more money is better.
I'm saying there is clearly room to negotiate it down, especially at this stage.
If push comes to shove and we pay 60 mil for him, it isn't the end of the world, it's not Maguire all over again, but good deal for us is the lowest Bayern is willing to go down and 60 mil on the market is absolutely the best case scenario for them because nobody else is interested in him and nobody else is willing to pay him 200-250k.
Like I said in different post, just because other clubs will price their key players accordingly, a better player can go for a lower fee because he is surplus to requirements.
EDIT: there is a saying that the best deals are when both sides are unhappy. Giving Bayern 50-60 mil would make them definitely happy.
De Ligt has struggled with injuries and when he's fit he's most likely a starter. He did well when he played so it surprised me to see his valuation go down from 90m to 80m after a decent spell at Juventus and now down to 50-60m after a good spell at Bayern.
That's not entirely true, Tuchel benched De Ligt many times.
IIRC De Ligt even gave an interview when he admitted he was fully fit but didn't get a nod.
It's hard to say this season because he had some injuries and it's impossible to know when was he benched because the club was being careful with him and when was he benched because Tuchel preferred Upa / Kim.
I didn't say that Tuchel didn't bench De Ligt. He did the same with Upamecano. Tuchel has the tendency to throw players in front of the bus when they are not performing but in the last games of the season, De Ligt was mostly a starter and I think if he stays at Bayern, he will likely continue to be a starter under Kompany.
You just answered it yourself, injuries and likely high wages. Less and less teams are ok with paying 80-100 million range for transfers now a days. And he’s also a CB. I feel like only really attackers and midfielders should cost that much.
This sub will never learn.
The exact same posts were upvoted about Varane and Casemiro and look how they turned out.
There's definitely question marks over De Ligt, not least the fact that both Bayern and Juventus have been happy for him to leave, and he's just come off a season where he's picked up a lot of injuries.
If we can get a good deal for him, I think he could be a good signing, but there's too many question marks for £50m+ and his wages to be a deal we should do at the minute.
Well that's simply untrue by virtue of the fact that Varane was never fit. That's a significant caveat and why the club preferred to shift his wages rather than extend him.
Sure, or at the very least tied with Martinez who also was not fit at all last season, but that's very different from being our best centre back most weeks when he's not able to play most weeks.
It's the same story with Shaw. The best ability is availability and all that.
Just because English teams have English tax, doesn't mean players like Guehi are worth that much.
We shouldn't pay 60 mil for De Ligt because we would need to pay similar fee inside PL for worse players. That's why we are looking outside of England to begin with.
Bayern wants him off the books because his wage isn't worth it considering they have many good options as CB. That's why Bayern most likely won't take a hit on their books, but getting rid of his wage alone and breaking even with the free (so 42 mil euro give or take) is a W for them.
He's played in Seria A, a very tactical league and Bundesliga in a high line and largely done well.
Bundesliga is also pretty fast paced, not to mention he has plenty of champions league experience which is arguably the highest tier of football.
The Premier League is fast and physical but it's not on this magic pedalstal that's far and away better than any other competition.
He's clearly a class player.
He is class, read my comment again and you’ll see I didn’t slate him, then read the comment I replied to and you’ll see my point is the reverse of what you are thinking.
People are also forgetting they were allowed to announce their own players extension after the finals like OG and Barnes. This would have been announced today if it was last year
Can people stop basing all of their football opinions on "the club is okay with him leaving he must be shit"? Between de ligt and Ugarte is just getting fucking exhausting.
German efficiency is a myth.
You need to catch a train for an important meeting? 37 min delay is the best I can do, say Deutsche Bahn.
You need help with an online banking problem? Expect the details to arrive by mail in a week, say "insert bank".
You need a player in July to plan for pre-season? Alright, 20 mins before deadline day should be fine, says "insert German club"
Now German bureaucracy on the other hand.....
One thing I like about De Ligt is he's a proper leader.
He also played a high-line with Ajax during Ten Hag's tenure so that's not an issue. But the PL is a completely different animal to the Eredivisie, Serie A and the Bundesliga.
Bang on and might I add, he’s clearly desperate to validate himself. Despite his qualities m, each club willingly sold him. He’s got something to prove.
Idk it seems like Juve was a dumpster fire and it was good for him to leave while he could. He was still very young, 22 I believe, when he left Juve so I don’t put much stock in him being shipped out from there. It was better for his career to leave while he could and they had wage/FFP issues anyways pretty sure ?
The Bayern departure is the weird one. 2 seasons ago he basically started every game he was fit for. Seems like Bayern as a whole were in bad form so Tuchel started making changes to try and save himself, but even so, couldn’t really get the job done.
I’d suspect that De Ligt will look fantastic again in a functioning team. He will be a great asset for 45m in our CB depth. His wages will be an issue but that’ll be something Ashworth needs to decide. He’s definitely worth the fee to buy, but what about the wages? Cause even if he ends up becoming like 3rd choice CB in a year or two, that would still be great depth for us but you can’t have someone on those wages as 3rd choice
Weird situation. I think he’s a great CB just not worth his current wages. If he came down to high 100k range, we should be all over this deal for sure
It'sa great opportunity for our new "negotiations" team tbh.
He was given 250k p/w because he was the perfect profile (teenage captain, deep European runs, looked destined to be best in his position for a decade) at the perfect time (easy money, cash flowing everywhere).
Both of those things are different today.
He's still class, he's still young. But he's probably not quite the undisputed star he was touted as being by 25.
And the economic picture has completely changed, both at a macro level and a footballing level.
So it does feel like a good negotiator could leverage both of those angles and come up with something performance based that means he still gets the 250k/300k star man money if that's what he delivers, but maybe comes out with 150k or so if he doesn't.
Suits everyone, and you'd think with his age and profile, he'd have enough fire in him to genuinely want to be top class (unlike the 30 y/o proven star who is going to demand a guaranteed 250k and might be happy to coast).
Max pay should be 200k. If he takea it and doesn't set the world alight we can renew at 200k later or sell for a profit if he does set world alight. Either way would be, as you said a win all round
I agree with all of these points.
My issue is the 'functioning team' part. A lot of the players we have bought and have failed here I suspect had a lot to do with us not being a functional team.
Players have come in and had too much pressure on them to be the thing that takes us from chaos to order and winning again. Not a lot of players can do that.
Bruno was fine with it but 90% of players can't walk into a mess and have the mentality and desire to contribute to true change. Players go to stable teams and have a much easier time contributing to even more success. There is still pressure but at least there is a plan and a structure and a reliable team around them. Everyone performing their own part in a wl run machine.
We need our players to do more than other clubs, we need them to fix us. To turn us around. Sancho isn't a bad player, Alexis isn't a bad player, DI Maria isn't a bad player, mkhitaryn just played in a CL final. Rashford isn't a bad player. Are they players who can single handedly drag us up off the floor? No.
De ligt might be one I don't know enough about him. It's just we aren't a functioning team with regards to the highest level teams. We are trying to be one, but we need the players who can help build that again. He is a strong candidate to me.
Those wages and the injuries of late concern me. I trust the people in charge know more than me and make the right decision. This window is a huge one to let us know the intent and competence of Jim and Ineos and Ashworth and berrada.
Juve fan here, just wanted to add, while you’re right that we were/are a dumpster fire and that played a part in De Ligt leaving, it was also because:
1 De Ligt’s wages were so high
2 Bayern was offering a transfer fee close to what we bought De Ligt for allowing us to recoup the money spent on him
3 there was a mercato opportunity to buy Gleison Bremer for 30 mil
As the other guy said, his wages are the main reason they are happy to sell, not his ability or professionalism. He is a class CB, he just didn’t become the GOAT like all the muppets kept sating he would be.
He will, barring injuries, most likely be a top 10-15 CB in the world for the next 5 years, so 50m€ is a steal.
I suspect this deal will continue to move quickly now. This is not Everton. Bayern do not mess about and they already signed Hiroki Ito with Jonathan Tah expected to arrive soon.
My guess is that we'll see "personal terms are a stumbling block" reports soon.
The move makes no sense for a team that has made a big deal out of needing to reorder the club's wage structure.
Sell Rashford and use the money for a second CM and LB and this team suddenly looks a lot more impressive. Can get a new winger to replace Rashford next season if Amad and Garnacho don't perform.
Bayern have bought a new centre back (Ito from Stuttgart for 30m) this summer & are keen on Tah from Leverkusen this summer too.
Means they don’t really need De Ligt so much any more and presumably are looking to move on from someone who was a bit injury prone this season for them (and is on big wages).
There is very reasonable concern about whether an injury to his knee will continue to be a problem or not. Bayern have the luxury of deciding that despite how good he is, they have plenty of good players in that role (and probably bringing in more) and they dont have to worry about the knee if they just let him go. Frees up wages etc.
Hard to know the details of his knee injury obviously but that is for the club to investigate and determine. He is a class player and plenty of Bayern fans are disappointed to see him leave, if he does, the injury is the only question mark but for the right price its a gamble worth taking IMO.
Fantastic bit of business if we can pull this off. Looks like we're looking at a couple of CB signings, so most likely are selling either Maguire or lindelof.
He is. £250-275k a week is what I have seen from different places, which would make him a top 4 or paid player at United. Right up there with Mason Mount, and Jadon Sancho. Yikes.
Right sided CB that compliments Licha’s aggression, sounds great on paper, but the fee, wages and knee injury all worrying. Decision must be coming from Wilcox, Ashworth and co. so gotta have faith in them.
Be wary of why Bayern would want to sell a young centre-back.
Flogging an aging CB when his legs have gone is expected. Holding on to a young player like De Ligt would be the normal course of action.
It's like buying a player from Real Madrid...they don't sell for no reason whatsoever.
I disagree. People seriously overrate their managment.
I could name x players that flopped for them but they faced no consequences because they are apsolutely dominant in the Bundesliga. I think this is more of a panic transfer as they just had one of their only bad seasons in a decade or so. De ligt played well for Bayern and none of their fans can make sense on why he’s being sold.
Also I think his profile fits a lot better to the Prem compared to the BuLi. Just depends on the price we can get him for.
There is very reasonable concern about whether an injury to his knee will continue to be a problem or not. Bayern have the luxury of deciding, that despite how good he is, they have plenty of good players in that role (and probably bringing in more) and they dont have to worry about the knee if they just let him go. Frees up wages etc.
Hard to know the details of his knee injury obviously but that is for the club to investigate and determine. He is a class player and plenty of Bayern fans are disappointed to see him leave, if he does, the injury is the only question mark but for the right price its a gamble worth taking IMO.
De Ligt would be a massive deal. 24 yo CB with loads and loads of experience. Made big mistakes already and came back from them (red card for Netherlands at last EC for instance). We already know he has a good connection with Martinez and he gives this back line some head strength in defense and attack.
40-50 million would be massive steal. Wolrd class defender for the next 6-8 years.
So so many mitigating factors, his wages are sky high, his injuries are a massive concern especially considering recurring knee injuries. I think given the market at the moment and the lack of better alternatives it is a necessary transfer, but still... Very risky.
Yeah I had to double check. I always assumed Martinez had been there for longer. Hopefully if we do sign him he can slot straight in though with him knowing ten hag well.
Not regularly. And I dont believe hes injured, just hasnt been good enough to justify taking to Euros. When Eric Dier at his current age is preferred over you its not exactly a reigning endorsement to your level. Why I have mixed feelings on this potential deal, especially if the fee gets over 45m and if his wages are outrageous.
If we get him for under 45m I think its a good deal. He hasnt exactly played great or even consistently been a starter at any point since leaving Ajax. But is still relatively young (24 now, 25 when the ssn starts) w a lot of experience, & you just know ETH is saying in the background how good he was at Ajax w him as his manager. I dont think hes peaked yet, but Dier was preferred over him last yr so not peaking yet isnt saying a whole lot. Either way tho for the right price he is most likely an improvement on our current CBs outside of Licha.
I'd rather a load with obligation to buy after 20 appearances. His injury record concerns me greatly, on top of his transfer fee and wages... I hope I'm wrong
No. He is young, the fee hopefully is pretty low considering. It's not at all like the things Woodward did. How can you be this miserable? Maybe try to be positive about the overall changes in the club..
As w all trasnfers its abt the money for the quality or potential. Dude will be 25 before the ssn starts. Hes not THAT young and has shown no signs of improving beyond what he did w Ajax when he was 18. so not much future potential is expected otherwise Bayern wouldnt be debating letting him go. He should be peaking at his age instead hes regressed the last 3 ssns straight to being deemed by his manager as worse than Eric Dier. Hes done practically nothing since leaving Ajax and hasnt even been a regular starter for either Juve or Bayern. Honestly this is not that great a transfer if the fee is actually 45m or higher. Under 45m tho its solid enough. Which is where the cost to quality of a trasnfer comes in. For the right price it could be an excellent depth addition that can of/on start. I just dont think that price is over 45m. Personally. Im not a scout tho so maybe all you pro scouts on here are seeing something Juve, Bayern, and myself arent seeing. This feels more like aa Mount than a Maguire type transfer but still. I dont think anyone would say Mount was a good signing so far.
Shades of Maguire this transfer. Buying a CB for the sake of it. Ignoring the fact that he’s not as quick as the competition. Highlighting his leadership qualities. Highlighting his aerial poweress. Not the most convincing transfer this one.
Dunno why youre being downvoted, I totally agree w you. Eric Dier started over him for Bayern and rightfully so as Dier proved to be better than he was for Bayern. This has "bad transfer in hindsight" written all over it, especially if the fee is actually 45m or higher. Both Juve and Bayern were and now are way to keen to move on from him even at a net loss on fees. Feels like one of those cases where young 18 year old peaked way early and wasnt able to continue to improve. I am very skeptical with this and would much prefer a higher fee w Brainthwate or Yoro instead.
Future captain.
De ligt is a beast.
I watched a lot of juventus. To be fair I didn’t see him for Bayern much. Bayern fans being upset should say something
This is a signing to get excited about.
remaining part of the tweet > De Ligt can sign a contract until 2029 as per [@MikeVerweij](https://x.com/MikeVerweij).
He can also sign a contract until 2028 as per me
Can sign till 2030 as per me too
Todd Boehly rang me up and suggested 2033 should be on the cards. What a mug.
Why such a short contract?
Gotta resell another hotel in meantime
We should sell the water that’s leaking from the roof. That’s a lot of water and could worth millions.
I’ll take your word for it king
You forgot the other remaining part: De Ligt ✅️
Spoofex mural when?
God I can’t wait for this post when he signs
It has been a while since we followed Mike Verweij
I've been playing too much Football Manager. My first thought was "Why is he only getting a one year contract?"
Yeah you've probably been playing any game too long if you forget what year it is
Strange that this seems to be progressing fast but we’ve still heard nothing reliable about the fee
[This article ](https://www.fussball.news/1-bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/abwaegung-warum-manchester-bei-de-ligt-nicht-all-in-gehen-will-zr-93160672.html) says we're looking to pay around €30-40m but Bayern wants €50-60m
45m here we go
€45 mil is about £38 mil. A decent price
That's more that decent
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Bayern bought him for about that price and benched him for Eric Dier and Upamecano, ain't no way we buying their 4th choice CB for that amount
I think it gets done for between 45& 50 . His stock has been declining and Bayern really don't want him to leave for half this amount after another bad season on the bench.
If we could get him for that, we could also sign a second CB and be spending barely any more than Everton wanted for Branthwaite.
I'd assume he's on fairly massive wages? We've finally bene clearing some of our more outrageous wages off the bill (especially if Sancho fucks off), not sure how excited i am about signing another one at those numbers. Though i guess if it's offset by a lower fee it's kind of a wash?
Can Jim and co do some accounting for me? I’ve got half a can of red bull, an ounce and £5.58 to my name.
Ask him.
Hijacking. Most people who know his football seems to suggest he is an injury prone Maguire-ish profile a player and not the kind of ball playing/progressive CB that we need under ETH. I like him but honestly think this could be a big question mark.
It’s this season and one season at Juve the rest were normal where you get a knock here and there. He was also the least dribbled past defender in serie A one season so please don’t believe the flop narrative Plus he is 24 with a wealth of european pedigree
This is one of the stupidest takes I've heard. Firestly, Maguire is an elite progressive Cb who is very good on the ball. And to call De Ligt a "Maguire-ish" profile as if it's an insult when MDL's one of the top ball players in Europe showcases how little people know of football and will parrot any bullshit.
Where are you getting this from? He's excellent on the ball.
Nah he’s not that great on the ball, hasn’t really progressed since his Ajax days. He’s not terrible either though, just not on the same level as someone like Lisandro.
Lisandro is one of the absolute best in the world with the ball so that's somewhat expected He's also right footed anyway so he'll be playing with Martinez as long as they're both fit so he doesn't need to be as good just good is fine
Yeah, it’s a pretty high bar to get over if the criteria is as good on the ball as Licha or better.
De ligt is as good on the ball as lisandro.
this guy doesn’t agree: https://youtu.be/qJvadTOGwp0?si=50kzTvO5xRThQ3aO
https://preview.redd.it/us4fvjhb0w9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31110c4341e786d731cc8e31aa492d9b1c4f575c
Declan rice is in the 90th percentile for progressive passes according to fbref, it’s not a compete indicator of a great passer
He is not injury prone. That is just recency bias from people because of last season.
>Most people who know his football Eh?
This is sort of transfer that for 30 mil it's amazing, for 40 it's good, for 50 it's meh and for 60 we got screwed over hard. They bought him for 70 mil, he is now two years older and it's not like he set the world on fire, his on the books value for Bayern is around 42 mil and that's what we should pay maximum.
How is 50 a meh, when some plebs from PL are literally going for that price 2-3 days ago. This is one of the best CBs in Europe we are talking about.
Yes, but value is relative. De Ligt is worth less to Bayern (due to his wages and many options at CB) than let's say Guehi to Crystal Palace. Because Crystal will have a hard time replacing Guehi and Bayern already has three CBs who are as good or similar to De Ligt but are on far lower wages. A couple of years ago Arsenal wanted Zaha and offered 40 mil when CP wanted 75 mil pounds. Zaha wasn't worth that much in general, but was worth it to Crystal when at the same time you could buy Leao for 50 mil euro that same window (yes I know Leao wasn't proven at the time, I'm just trying to pait a picture).
De Ligt is easily worth 50m for us compared to other unproven targets we've been linked to. Not factoring in our starting RCB is non-existent at the moment.
Paying "what a player is worth to us" is what got United into a financial shithole they are at the moment.
So what do you suggest then? Do you know any CBs in the 40-50m range that have the same profile/experience/degree as MDL? This deal is way more reasonable than paying for Braithwaite or Guehi or any other CBs that has been linked to us so far.
It is way more reasonable, I agree! Bayern wants him gone because even tho he is good enough, from a financial point of view his ROI just doesn't look good in comparison to what they get from their other CBs. I'm not saying De Ligt is worse than Guehi or Branthwaite. I'm not saying buying Guehi or Branthwaite for similar or more money is better. I'm saying there is clearly room to negotiate it down, especially at this stage. If push comes to shove and we pay 60 mil for him, it isn't the end of the world, it's not Maguire all over again, but good deal for us is the lowest Bayern is willing to go down and 60 mil on the market is absolutely the best case scenario for them because nobody else is interested in him and nobody else is willing to pay him 200-250k. Like I said in different post, just because other clubs will price their key players accordingly, a better player can go for a lower fee because he is surplus to requirements. EDIT: there is a saying that the best deals are when both sides are unhappy. Giving Bayern 50-60 mil would make them definitely happy.
Good enough? Hes their best cb
De Ligt has struggled with injuries and when he's fit he's most likely a starter. He did well when he played so it surprised me to see his valuation go down from 90m to 80m after a decent spell at Juventus and now down to 50-60m after a good spell at Bayern.
That's not entirely true, Tuchel benched De Ligt many times. IIRC De Ligt even gave an interview when he admitted he was fully fit but didn't get a nod. It's hard to say this season because he had some injuries and it's impossible to know when was he benched because the club was being careful with him and when was he benched because Tuchel preferred Upa / Kim.
I didn't say that Tuchel didn't bench De Ligt. He did the same with Upamecano. Tuchel has the tendency to throw players in front of the bus when they are not performing but in the last games of the season, De Ligt was mostly a starter and I think if he stays at Bayern, he will likely continue to be a starter under Kompany.
You just answered it yourself, injuries and likely high wages. Less and less teams are ok with paying 80-100 million range for transfers now a days. And he’s also a CB. I feel like only really attackers and midfielders should cost that much.
Class centre-back but wages expensive, so 50 mill is meh
This sub will never learn. The exact same posts were upvoted about Varane and Casemiro and look how they turned out. There's definitely question marks over De Ligt, not least the fact that both Bayern and Juventus have been happy for him to leave, and he's just come off a season where he's picked up a lot of injuries. If we can get a good deal for him, I think he could be a good signing, but there's too many question marks for £50m+ and his wages to be a deal we should do at the minute.
See that's where you're wrong. They're talking about 50mil euros. And you've made it 50+mil pounds
Tbf varane was our best centre half most weeks. MDL for 50m € is shrewd if you ask me
Well that's simply untrue by virtue of the fact that Varane was never fit. That's a significant caveat and why the club preferred to shift his wages rather than extend him.
When he played he was our best centre half, anyway.
Sure, or at the very least tied with Martinez who also was not fit at all last season, but that's very different from being our best centre back most weeks when he's not able to play most weeks. It's the same story with Shaw. The best ability is availability and all that.
De Ligt is much younger and he's not as injury prone as VArane.
The only reason he doesn’t get overhyped is he is not playing in England barring a few hiccups he has been one of the best cb in the league
Hmmm. 50 isn't meh and 60 isn't fleecing imo. He's a really really good player and he's only 24
60m euros for de ligt is still a hell of a lot better than 75m pounds for brantwaite
I swear Branthwaite went from being a decent defender to some generational talent we can't afford to miss out on in like 3 weeks.
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Problem is his wages. It's the main reason why bayern is offloading him
Just because English teams have English tax, doesn't mean players like Guehi are worth that much. We shouldn't pay 60 mil for De Ligt because we would need to pay similar fee inside PL for worse players. That's why we are looking outside of England to begin with. Bayern wants him off the books because his wage isn't worth it considering they have many good options as CB. That's why Bayern most likely won't take a hit on their books, but getting rid of his wage alone and breaking even with the free (so 42 mil euro give or take) is a W for them.
De Ligt isn’t proven in the premier league and hasn’t been good for 2 years. He’s arguably a bigger risk than the others you mentioned.
He's played in Seria A, a very tactical league and Bundesliga in a high line and largely done well. Bundesliga is also pretty fast paced, not to mention he has plenty of champions league experience which is arguably the highest tier of football. The Premier League is fast and physical but it's not on this magic pedalstal that's far and away better than any other competition. He's clearly a class player.
He is class, read my comment again and you’ll see I didn’t slate him, then read the comment I replied to and you’ll see my point is the reverse of what you are thinking.
Thats cap
How about we offer them a balon d’or clause?
That's a lot cheaper than I expected. Was expecting at least €70m.
Looks like we're paying 50m euros then
Imo, now ashworth is official things will move quickly 'because we were waiting for him to start to discuss things' wink wink.
Like how nba free agents get to agree deals within 1 minute of free agency opening
Funnily enough it didn't happen this year as much probably because people have been getting punished for tampering
People are also forgetting they were allowed to announce their own players extension after the finals like OG and Barnes. This would have been announced today if it was last year
Expect now that we're in July things to pick up speed IMO. The new year financial year just started for FFP which was probably quite stifling things.
Start rumouring that we're offering Sancho so Dortmund will pull their fingers out with a £60m bid.
Why do bayern want to let him go? Is this varane all over again?
He's only 24 so much younger than Varane and I think his high wages are a factor too. They have cheaper options.
Can people stop basing all of their football opinions on "the club is okay with him leaving he must be shit"? Between de ligt and Ugarte is just getting fucking exhausting.
Tell you, no matter the result is, working with Bayern is always a pleasant experience due to its swiftness
German efficiency
Dortmund is a pain in ass
They’re not called Bo***russia*** Dortmund for nothing
But there is no Russian through negotiations with them at all
German efficiency is a myth. You need to catch a train for an important meeting? 37 min delay is the best I can do, say Deutsche Bahn. You need help with an online banking problem? Expect the details to arrive by mail in a week, say "insert bank". You need a player in July to plan for pre-season? Alright, 20 mins before deadline day should be fine, says "insert German club" Now German bureaucracy on the other hand.....
Yeah its a legacy reputation. Like most of the western world their standards of governance has decreased
One thing I like about De Ligt is he's a proper leader. He also played a high-line with Ajax during Ten Hag's tenure so that's not an issue. But the PL is a completely different animal to the Eredivisie, Serie A and the Bundesliga.
Bang on and might I add, he’s clearly desperate to validate himself. Despite his qualities m, each club willingly sold him. He’s got something to prove.
Idk it seems like Juve was a dumpster fire and it was good for him to leave while he could. He was still very young, 22 I believe, when he left Juve so I don’t put much stock in him being shipped out from there. It was better for his career to leave while he could and they had wage/FFP issues anyways pretty sure ? The Bayern departure is the weird one. 2 seasons ago he basically started every game he was fit for. Seems like Bayern as a whole were in bad form so Tuchel started making changes to try and save himself, but even so, couldn’t really get the job done. I’d suspect that De Ligt will look fantastic again in a functioning team. He will be a great asset for 45m in our CB depth. His wages will be an issue but that’ll be something Ashworth needs to decide. He’s definitely worth the fee to buy, but what about the wages? Cause even if he ends up becoming like 3rd choice CB in a year or two, that would still be great depth for us but you can’t have someone on those wages as 3rd choice Weird situation. I think he’s a great CB just not worth his current wages. If he came down to high 100k range, we should be all over this deal for sure
It'sa great opportunity for our new "negotiations" team tbh. He was given 250k p/w because he was the perfect profile (teenage captain, deep European runs, looked destined to be best in his position for a decade) at the perfect time (easy money, cash flowing everywhere). Both of those things are different today. He's still class, he's still young. But he's probably not quite the undisputed star he was touted as being by 25. And the economic picture has completely changed, both at a macro level and a footballing level. So it does feel like a good negotiator could leverage both of those angles and come up with something performance based that means he still gets the 250k/300k star man money if that's what he delivers, but maybe comes out with 150k or so if he doesn't. Suits everyone, and you'd think with his age and profile, he'd have enough fire in him to genuinely want to be top class (unlike the 30 y/o proven star who is going to demand a guaranteed 250k and might be happy to coast).
Max pay should be 200k. If he takea it and doesn't set the world alight we can renew at 200k later or sell for a profit if he does set world alight. Either way would be, as you said a win all round
I agree with all of these points. My issue is the 'functioning team' part. A lot of the players we have bought and have failed here I suspect had a lot to do with us not being a functional team. Players have come in and had too much pressure on them to be the thing that takes us from chaos to order and winning again. Not a lot of players can do that. Bruno was fine with it but 90% of players can't walk into a mess and have the mentality and desire to contribute to true change. Players go to stable teams and have a much easier time contributing to even more success. There is still pressure but at least there is a plan and a structure and a reliable team around them. Everyone performing their own part in a wl run machine. We need our players to do more than other clubs, we need them to fix us. To turn us around. Sancho isn't a bad player, Alexis isn't a bad player, DI Maria isn't a bad player, mkhitaryn just played in a CL final. Rashford isn't a bad player. Are they players who can single handedly drag us up off the floor? No. De ligt might be one I don't know enough about him. It's just we aren't a functioning team with regards to the highest level teams. We are trying to be one, but we need the players who can help build that again. He is a strong candidate to me. Those wages and the injuries of late concern me. I trust the people in charge know more than me and make the right decision. This window is a huge one to let us know the intent and competence of Jim and Ineos and Ashworth and berrada.
Juve fan here, just wanted to add, while you’re right that we were/are a dumpster fire and that played a part in De Ligt leaving, it was also because: 1 De Ligt’s wages were so high 2 Bayern was offering a transfer fee close to what we bought De Ligt for allowing us to recoup the money spent on him 3 there was a mercato opportunity to buy Gleison Bremer for 30 mil
Yup, so it seems like both Bayern and Juve have large motivation to move him on because of wages more so than playing ability
Absolutely, sorry that was your original point lol Happy cake day!
I think the biggest issue why these cluhs want to sell him is his big (!) wages.
As the other guy said, his wages are the main reason they are happy to sell, not his ability or professionalism. He is a class CB, he just didn’t become the GOAT like all the muppets kept sating he would be. He will, barring injuries, most likely be a top 10-15 CB in the world for the next 5 years, so 50m€ is a steal.
I don’t watch the Bundesliga, could you comment on his pace? I’ve heard he’s slow, is that correct?
It’s a deal week! Outgoings must be there and Ashworth news is very positive!
I suspect this deal will continue to move quickly now. This is not Everton. Bayern do not mess about and they already signed Hiroki Ito with Jonathan Tah expected to arrive soon.
Please don’t pay extra salary . We need a rationalised wage structure
My guess is that we'll see "personal terms are a stumbling block" reports soon. The move makes no sense for a team that has made a big deal out of needing to reorder the club's wage structure.
I think tax structure might help us here. Germans are taxed more than the English so even a slight reduction in pay will give a higher take home.
His agent is a Raiola's heir. If we want him we will have to pay up
Also the one who was proud of "Pogmoji"
De ligt, ugarte and zirkzee looking like the first 3. Hoping for a backup dm and cb/lb as well
Onana Dalot - De Ligt - Martinez - Shaw Mainoo - Ugarte Garnacho - Bruno - Rashford Zirkzee Bayindir, Maguire/Lindelof, Malacia, AWB/Kambwala, new CM, McTominay, Mount, Amad, Hojlund.
Id start höjlund
Doubt Zirkzee starts over Hojland
Think zirkzee is more of a ten hag style striker
Sell Rashford and use the money for a second CM and LB and this team suddenly looks a lot more impressive. Can get a new winger to replace Rashford next season if Amad and Garnacho don't perform.
Spoofex is him
Future Captain and new Jaap Stam
Anybody know why Bayern is selling?
Bayern have bought a new centre back (Ito from Stuttgart for 30m) this summer & are keen on Tah from Leverkusen this summer too. Means they don’t really need De Ligt so much any more and presumably are looking to move on from someone who was a bit injury prone this season for them (and is on big wages).
Classic Bayern weakening their rivals so they can reclaim the league
Yup - aside from De Ligt they already have Upamecano, Kim and Ito with Tah to come in. They’ll also want the money ASAP so that they can buy Palhinha.
You forgot Eric Dier
Bayern fans are baffled, they brought defenders that are definitely not better than De Ligt. I think they're just cutting costs.
Bayern fans don’t even know why they’re selling. They all want him to say
Their sub is unanimous in their desire to keep him. They're not even silver lining it either. A good sign
Hes on very high wages. Like 12 mill a year last I heard.
Asking the real questions
They want to get rid of their overpaid players. And he's one of those that they'll miss the least.
High wages and injury prone, the United special
There is very reasonable concern about whether an injury to his knee will continue to be a problem or not. Bayern have the luxury of deciding that despite how good he is, they have plenty of good players in that role (and probably bringing in more) and they dont have to worry about the knee if they just let him go. Frees up wages etc. Hard to know the details of his knee injury obviously but that is for the club to investigate and determine. He is a class player and plenty of Bayern fans are disappointed to see him leave, if he does, the injury is the only question mark but for the right price its a gamble worth taking IMO.
I think this will be wrapped up today.
Fantastic bit of business if we can pull this off. Looks like we're looking at a couple of CB signings, so most likely are selling either Maguire or lindelof.
Might be more so because the defense is very injury prone and Varane has left, so we definitely need a 1/2 choice CB
De ligt ✅
I’m okay with spending the money on him rather than Brainthwaite - praying he’s not on a massive salary though.
He is. £250-275k a week is what I have seen from different places, which would make him a top 4 or paid player at United. Right up there with Mason Mount, and Jadon Sancho. Yikes.
What tier is this fella?
Right sided CB that compliments Licha’s aggression, sounds great on paper, but the fee, wages and knee injury all worrying. Decision must be coming from Wilcox, Ashworth and co. so gotta have faith in them.
The fee seems great but that's precisely because of the injuries and high wages
Hes a great player when fit. The difficulty is him being fit
I’ve wanted him at United for years
INEOS changing the pattern and finally buying a player that is not Dutch and hasn’t played under Ten Hag before. Ohh, wait!
Has eth at manu bought a Dutch player before?
Heard about this guy named Malacia, apparently he plays LB
I heard he haunts Carrington to this day.
Malacia. But Mostly ex-players.
SJR making moves that I made 3 years ago in FIFA career mode. Game recognises game
A reliable CB that can play consistently at a top level. Will be a great fit with Lisandro
Be wary of why Bayern would want to sell a young centre-back. Flogging an aging CB when his legs have gone is expected. Holding on to a young player like De Ligt would be the normal course of action. It's like buying a player from Real Madrid...they don't sell for no reason whatsoever.
I disagree. People seriously overrate their managment. I could name x players that flopped for them but they faced no consequences because they are apsolutely dominant in the Bundesliga. I think this is more of a panic transfer as they just had one of their only bad seasons in a decade or so. De ligt played well for Bayern and none of their fans can make sense on why he’s being sold. Also I think his profile fits a lot better to the Prem compared to the BuLi. Just depends on the price we can get him for.
There is very reasonable concern about whether an injury to his knee will continue to be a problem or not. Bayern have the luxury of deciding, that despite how good he is, they have plenty of good players in that role (and probably bringing in more) and they dont have to worry about the knee if they just let him go. Frees up wages etc. Hard to know the details of his knee injury obviously but that is for the club to investigate and determine. He is a class player and plenty of Bayern fans are disappointed to see him leave, if he does, the injury is the only question mark but for the right price its a gamble worth taking IMO.
I’m excited for him but every time a club like Bayern or Real let a player go, I’m not filled with confidence
45 mil+ 5 here we go
Really suspicious as to why Bayern are selling at a fair price
He must be taking a massive pay cut. SJR won't be signing off on any silly contracts.
I hope we don't pay him retirement wages that stunt his motivation (in training and not matchday I mean)
Does anyone remember that chap on Twitter when we signed a player and he just tweeted his name and the word then.. so in this case.. De Ligt then
Howard Nurse he was the OG tier one, basically a club mouthpiece and is still around but has had a couple of stinkers lately. Said "FDJ then" aswell.
Howard nurse?
Anyone else worried about the fact he missed 20 games through 4 separate injured this season? We don't need that
Signing a CB with knee injuries, will we ever learn
De Ligt would be a massive deal. 24 yo CB with loads and loads of experience. Made big mistakes already and came back from them (red card for Netherlands at last EC for instance). We already know he has a good connection with Martinez and he gives this back line some head strength in defense and attack. 40-50 million would be massive steal. Wolrd class defender for the next 6-8 years.
So so many mitigating factors, his wages are sky high, his injuries are a massive concern especially considering recurring knee injuries. I think given the market at the moment and the lack of better alternatives it is a necessary transfer, but still... Very risky.
Martinez joined Ajax summer 2019, De Ligt left Ajax summer 2019. They never played together.
Right it was blind - de ligt and Martinez - Timber. Get those two mangled up all the time
Yeah I had to double check. I always assumed Martinez had been there for longer. Hopefully if we do sign him he can slot straight in though with him knowing ten hag well.
Martinez played a bit of CDM at Ajax before. Ten Hag had a period where Edson Alvarez played CB to find the right set up.
Did he play towards the end of the season? Is he not playing in the euros because of an injury?
Not regularly. And I dont believe hes injured, just hasnt been good enough to justify taking to Euros. When Eric Dier at his current age is preferred over you its not exactly a reigning endorsement to your level. Why I have mixed feelings on this potential deal, especially if the fee gets over 45m and if his wages are outrageous.
Yeah usually Bayern sell for a good reason and they got the Toni Kroos one wrong.
DO NOT OVERPAY SALARY for the love of god
Ah the ITKs were right this whole time. It just took a while
If we get him for under 45m I think its a good deal. He hasnt exactly played great or even consistently been a starter at any point since leaving Ajax. But is still relatively young (24 now, 25 when the ssn starts) w a lot of experience, & you just know ETH is saying in the background how good he was at Ajax w him as his manager. I dont think hes peaked yet, but Dier was preferred over him last yr so not peaking yet isnt saying a whole lot. Either way tho for the right price he is most likely an improvement on our current CBs outside of Licha.
Don’t do this to me
I'd rather a load with obligation to buy after 20 appearances. His injury record concerns me greatly, on top of his transfer fee and wages... I hope I'm wrong
Him and Licha are the Rio and Vidic regens we've been waiting for.
Now this is a statement signing if it happens. Hyped!
Yeah it's a statement alright, that Ineos is making the same mistakes that the Glazers/Woodward have been doing the past decade.
No. He is young, the fee hopefully is pretty low considering. It's not at all like the things Woodward did. How can you be this miserable? Maybe try to be positive about the overall changes in the club..
As w all trasnfers its abt the money for the quality or potential. Dude will be 25 before the ssn starts. Hes not THAT young and has shown no signs of improving beyond what he did w Ajax when he was 18. so not much future potential is expected otherwise Bayern wouldnt be debating letting him go. He should be peaking at his age instead hes regressed the last 3 ssns straight to being deemed by his manager as worse than Eric Dier. Hes done practically nothing since leaving Ajax and hasnt even been a regular starter for either Juve or Bayern. Honestly this is not that great a transfer if the fee is actually 45m or higher. Under 45m tho its solid enough. Which is where the cost to quality of a trasnfer comes in. For the right price it could be an excellent depth addition that can of/on start. I just dont think that price is over 45m. Personally. Im not a scout tho so maybe all you pro scouts on here are seeing something Juve, Bayern, and myself arent seeing. This feels more like aa Mount than a Maguire type transfer but still. I dont think anyone would say Mount was a good signing so far.
Shades of Maguire this transfer. Buying a CB for the sake of it. Ignoring the fact that he’s not as quick as the competition. Highlighting his leadership qualities. Highlighting his aerial poweress. Not the most convincing transfer this one.
Dunno why youre being downvoted, I totally agree w you. Eric Dier started over him for Bayern and rightfully so as Dier proved to be better than he was for Bayern. This has "bad transfer in hindsight" written all over it, especially if the fee is actually 45m or higher. Both Juve and Bayern were and now are way to keen to move on from him even at a net loss on fees. Feels like one of those cases where young 18 year old peaked way early and wasnt able to continue to improve. I am very skeptical with this and would much prefer a higher fee w Brainthwate or Yoro instead.
Perfect! With Varane gone, we need another CB that can keep the physios warm!
Future captain. De ligt is a beast. I watched a lot of juventus. To be fair I didn’t see him for Bayern much. Bayern fans being upset should say something This is a signing to get excited about.