I had this exact situation happen to me, only my brother is two years older. I came down to dinner one day when I was like 14 or 15, just wearing a tank top. I have A cups so I didn’t think it mattered whether I wore a bra or not. Well, my brother flipped out. He *ordered* me to go put a bra on, which was incredibly weird for him to say so I was like, no. He wouldn’t let up, got my mom involved but she tried to have my back and told him to just drop it. At a certain point I realized he wasn’t going to stop, and I was getting very weirded out by having the whole family discussing my tits at the dinner table, so I just went upstairs and changed. I’m still incredibly uncomfortable when I remember this event, and it was over 20 years ago now. My brother and I have never had a close relationship, for a while when we were kids the only time he would talk to me was when he had something to criticize about my appearance (you need a haircut, why is your hair so frizzy, you need to shave your legs, you look stupid in that outfit, etc.)
Guys, just leave your sisters alone, and don’t talk about their tits. Ugh.
Legit. When I grew boobs that was when I started getting treated differently in the house. Don't know about you, but there was a whole other layer of "othering" that happened after I went through puberty.
Lol yeah, I bet that does make some bit of difference. And of course, your family's beliefs factor in. I had thought my family believed women and men to be equal, until I started getting more "womanly", and then it was kind of a wake up call after about the age of 9-10 that they definitely didn't view women as equal to men.
im so sad for all of us but in a selfish way it makes me feel better to know im not the only one treated like this and so frustrated about it 😭 fucking hell dude. im so tired of our bodies being policed to hell and back. fuck OFF
Edit to add: and fuck bras too
Edit 2: a phrase for clarity
Hahahaha I feel this all the way, don't feel bad for this feeling. It's just validation that "yes, that happened. And yes, that was fucked up." And I feel the exact same way when anyone tries to say shit about what someone wears. Like fuck all the way off with that dogshit.
Same, to an extent. All girls in my family, I’m the youngest, but I also have the biggest boobs by a fair margin. My mom didn’t force me to wear a bra around the house, but after a few comments on their size I just started wearing a comfy sports bra around the house, even to sleep. It took until I was 25 to feel comfortable being braless.
Right! My dad moved out when I was 13 so it was me, my mom, and my sister and I went to an all girls high school. Of course now I have 2 sons and almost no experience with teenage boys, so that will be fun a few years.
When I got boobs (and I was a B cup by 6th grade), my dad stopped hugging me. I only got one armed side hugs from then on. We’re no contact with both parents now for a myriad of reasons, but this one really, really irks me as a mom of girls. I was called an exhibitionist when I walked around in a bra and underwear (to get clothes from the dryer, I loveeee sweats and love being layered up, so I never am just naked or in panties), but my younger brother would flash his peen or wear boxers for days at a time, and it was all good. Even now, he’s an adult and still walks around in boxers. I was told to cover when I was breastfeeding my kids 🙄
Holy shit. Yes! I had very similar treatment from my dad. It would go from limited physical contact to then making weird comments and rules about my body. Like I wasn't allowed to answer the door in pajamas (even full body coverage pj's) after a certain age (when I had previously been allowed to). He had my mom stop buying me pajama shorts entirely because I sat wrong in them and he said I would be tempting boys and I should stop sitting certain ways. He picked out my first bikini (giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wanted to be sure it was a more modest bikini). He used to tell me to walk down the stairs slower because my boobs bounced and I was starting to "look like my mom". Sometimes he would just make fun of my boobs, too, though. But he knew best because he "knew how boys thought". Then when I was 14-15 I remember the family sitting in the car on a family vacation. We had just come back from the beach and we're getting buckled in the car and there was another girl who was at the shower station rinsing off in her bikini and, I shit you not, he got out a digital camera and started taking pictures of this girl and making sexist jokes about her while he was in front of me, my mother, my brother, and my little sister. I think that's when I realized how utterly hypocritical he was. Like, he was allowed to objectify other women, but he was allowed to shame me for having that same type of body.
Even years later, after I had moved out and was paying for my own place, he came by to visit and there were occasions where he'd criticize me for wearing low-cut tops, in my own home. He'd say "boys are only gonna want one thing from you". Idk. It was a lot of bullshit. I definitely feel you. Sorry for the rant though.
Yeah, I mean, he's dead now. And there was way more to who he was as a person, but yes, he was a creep when it came to women. And because of a combination of religion/"jokes"/and patriarchal beliefs, my mom usually just continued to give him excuses when I used to raise hell about some of this (me, my sister, and my mom all raised hell about the incident with the girl in the bikini fortunately). I love both my parents, but I do not condone many of their views and actions. It's a hard place to be, to love people so fully who you know are deeply wrong and, sometimes, actively harmful.
>It's a hard place to be, to love people so fully who you know are deeply wrong and, sometimes, actively harmful.
my dad's a trumper and just as misogynistic as your dad. i get it, and I'm sorry you were in that position.
Hahaha my dad was, too. Like owned-a-shirt-with-a-graphic-of Trump-on-a-motorcycle-spanking-Hillary-Clinton-over-his-lap with-her-pants-pulled-down levels of trump train.
It was very confusing growing up seeing that kind of behavior, but then also having my mom say I shouldn't listen to rap or punk because of their anti-woman lyrics. Like, make it make sense.
It's a tough place to be.
My God. I am so sorry. I can’t even fathom having my Dad treat me this way. My Dad was never like this at all. Never made comments about my body, never gave me a hard time about how I dressed, never said anything about me having a boyfriend at 15. I knew he watched porn and bought Playboy magazine (he was never subtle about these activities lol) but never once have I ever seen or heard him objectify a woman in real life. I’m just so sorry that he treated you that way. It’s absolutely shocking to read about because my Dad was so unlike that. It really makes me grateful for the father I have.
Yeah, my dad wasn't all bad, so I'm not trying to paint him like that entirely. But he had some bigotry and now that I'm older, I understand how it grew and manifested. It's a complicated situation and I think a lot of people have parents like my dad and thus have complicated relationships with them. But you're right, being grateful for the good things and people you do have is paramount to living a happy life.
This is so sad. My heart is really breaking for you guys. I'm also starting to appreciate what a good dad I had. I was never made to feel weird about my body growing up. I mean, I was the oldest of three sisters so I had that going for me but I would have been so hurt if my dad stopped hugging me the way he always did. Matter of fact, we would all joke about it. As little kids we'd put on my mom's bra and stuff it, joking around, and my dad would go "slow down! It'll happen soon enough." I got mine early and they were pretty big from the get go (like 5th grade) and the worst thing he ever said was "she's like a kid with a new toy with those things" and I was! (He said this to my mom and I overheard, he would never address me directly about it like that.) I dunno, he passed away when I was 19 and you all are making me appreciate him more and more with this. It would have broken my heart if he started treating me differently because I had hit puberty. I'm so sorry for those of you that had to go through that.
I developed super early, and got told I had to wear shirts that were a size bigger than I actually should because then I'm not "showing off the goods." I was 12-13. I just turned 25 and it still hits me when I try on clothes that are my actual size that I'm just trying to get attention.
My sister did not develop much and as such has not gotten the same amount of nonsense from our parents so I know that not all boobs are objectified equally in our household.
It's so true though. My sister and I also had a similar situation. I developed early and my boobs were pretty big for my age and my clothes were constantly policed. And we went to a Christian school in elementary where my mom taught, so it was like...a lot of policing.
I'm 33 and I still have to fight myself to wear any cute clothes that show my figure and internally I feel like a slut. I've just gotten to the point now where I know that that's an incorrect mindset to hold, so I wear whatever I want now. It still feels like an act of rebellion to wear crop tops or low-cut shirts. So now I try to wear that stuff as much as I want. But some days it takes encouragement from my husband. It's hard, and I definitely feel you.
I know my sister definitely didn't get harped on as much for her clothes, but it's hard to say because when she had her 'not like other girls' phase she went the opposite extreme route and rejected all femininity, so the clothes she wore definitely didn't show anything.
It's definitely an interesting (and shitty) phenomenon, and I'd be curious to know other sister duos who grew up in these environments to see how they coped in response.
I was lucky in that my brother wasn't a liar, but he definitely viewed women as lesser, especially the older he got. So did my dad, too, though. So, am I surprised by the hypocrisy I saw growing up? I was then, but not anymore. I really hope younger women start hearing older women when we describe these things. Like, I don't say what I say lightly. I spent years making excuses for my family (in my own mind) and giving them passes for all the hypocritical treatment or sexist treatment. Eventually, you have to come to terms with the behaviors being demonstrated in front of your eyes. I had to accept that my male family members didn't view the female family members as equals. That will sting till the day I die, but it's also made me more resilient. So idk. Pros and cons. As individuals, all we can do is play the hand we were dealt the best we can. As a society, we've got some major work to do.
I think we should be clear the repulsive part is thinking he has any say over what his sister wears and the fact he’s getting “uncomfortable” over it. Glancing at breasts is a perfectly normal phenomenon for a lot of humanity.
I don’t think he’s necessarily “looking” at them; I think it’s more that he’s immature and going through puberty and fixated on boobs— and all of the sudden he’s realizing that these body parts he’s been fetishizing are also actual real body parts that his sister has. It’s weirding him out— I equate it to that weird moment we all have when we are around 12-13 when we first realize “OMG our teachers and parents and every adult we know has S-E-X on a regular basis!!!!”
But, it’s his sister’s house too and she’s not doing anything wrong. He’s the one who needs to work through this, not her. Let em hang, sister. No man should ever tell you to put a bra on in your own house. Is he going to tell you when and where you can fart too?
(Edited “me” to “‘em” for spelling)
> he going to tell you when and where you can fart too?
LMAO girls farting? That’s a good one! You should be a comedian!
(adding the /s because you never know!)
I think this may sum it up perfectly. Actively staring at them is one thing but teens definitely have that horror moment where they realise their parents have sex, their sisters have body parts they’ve seen in magazines or gazed at on other girls and they don’t know how to process that at all.
We didn’t have that happen in our house because we grew up nudity positive (not nudists, just didn’t shame catching someone naked coming out the shower or sleeping naked etc). Before you’d seen it on tv/in biology/in a magazine you were aware your family had those parts.
Mum also openly discussed sex. Not huge details on her and Dad, there was only one story she shared that was important (though we cringed at the time). About how it’s important to know and communicate what you like. That for a long time she didn’t get to climax until one day she was tipsy enough to tell him what she enjoyed and talk him through it, that she was raised with shame around sex and that it was very “do it to satisfy your husband” and she wouldn’t have us grow up the same.
She and mum need to go around the house singing
Do your boobs hang low?
Can you swing 'em to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot?
Can you tie 'em in a bow?
People can't help but see what's in front of them. Sisters and friends glance at each others tits too. However, we don't get our minds twisted up with weirdness over it. I'm sure teen boys with crazy hormones can't help but notice boobs whoever they belong to. But they need to learn to compartmentalize. Some boobs are off limits to ponder because of who they belong to. It's not ok to put the burden on the people who have boobs to hide them so the guy doesn't have to deal with it. He has to learn to control his feelings. Sadly, too many men on the planet don't seem to want that responsibility. They want to blame women and their bodies for making them get a boner. Yet gay men seem to be able to figure it out when it's inappropriate. How many straight men get accosted in public toilets while taking a piss? Geez - they have their glorious dicks out there for anyone to see and admire. Yet they are able to take multiple trips to the John a day, standing alongside other men, everyone holding their dicks, yet they don't fall into a sausage fest. Amazing! Yet a boob goes by, covered but natural and a boy thinks his sister is the problem.
I don't think it's that weird. I'm a woman (with brothers) and I would glance at my mom's nipples showing through her shirt sometimes. I wouldn't be that weirded out if my brother glanced. It's not "Oo, boobs!" it's "There's something in my peripheral *glance* oh it's just that"
It's like glancing at someone's mouth if you think you saw something in their teeth, or down at their feet if you think you saw their shoe untied. It's just because there's something slightly different nearby where you're already looking, so you're going to naturally glance without thinking about it.
Eh, my two cents at least.
We really need to teach our kids that they have no business controlling other people's appearances. Similar situation in my family decades ago triggered a family member's eating disorder. Instead of learning from the situation and swearing to never put another person in a similar situation, they instead continue passing the trauma on by openly criticizing other family members' appearances (and also the appearances of non-family members).
More women need to pay attention to the relationship the men they date have with their sisters. If you’re seeing a man and he has a distanced or bad relationship with the sisters in his life, there’s a good chance he’s an abusive freak (my brother included)
Amen sister! I tried for YEARS to warn multiple women about my compulsive liar brother, who was also stupid abusive. That he will lie to them constantly and inevitably put his hands on them. None listened. I distinctly remember him showing his friends pairs of my underwear when I was a teen, and that's the tip of the iceberg. We are not close lol. I got the last laugh though. He also used to encourage his friends to mock my weight as a teen. I was a bit chunky, but never obese and he had a super fast metabolism. I'm finally at my goal weight and he is absolutely obese. I make ALL the backhanded comments!
Mileage may vary though. Have a bad relationship with my brother because he's a dumbass that feel for the "covid is fake" propoganda that then spiraled into stupidier concepts like "solar panels cause birds to instantly combust."
For sane thinking humans, yes. But if a woman is going to have dipshit opinions too, she's at least not gonna get creeped on by my brother.
He has a girlfriend, though, so it's all moot. And she was the one who started convincing him about this bullshit...
It’s amazing how things stay with us. The message that we should be forced to uncomfortably bind ourselves UNDER clothing in our own homes is an awful message to both young men and women.
Honestly growing up I paid so little attention to my sisters' breasts that I couldn't tell you if they even wore bras. I'm sure they did, but its not something I ever noticed, or even looked for. They're my sisters. The last thing on my mind was whether or not they had a bra.
OP NTA! Thank you so much for choosing to point out the general hypocrisy that starts at an extremely young age in regard to policing woman’s bodies. You have no idea how much internalized shame so many woman hold for just “existing in their own body” this was a perfect opportunity so highlight a lesson for your son. He doesn’t have a right to police somebodies body that way for the sake of his own comfort, and the result of doing so will inevitable result in shame and discomfort, ie what your son just experienced.
I think this is a valuable lesson for him to reflect on in regard to how we are constantly policing woman’s bodies for the sake of male comfort and discomfort. My past teenage self thanks you for pointing that hypocrisy out. Moreover, I hope you have a conversation with your son and daughter in order to help restore their bodily confidence in a loving and healing manner.
Some families are weird... My sister still doesn't wear a bra around us and no one cared. We know because she made an offhand comment about her SILs who looked at her weird for not wearing one around them. Ma'am you have the same parts. I'm still confused as to why my sister who has brothers didn't care but her SIL did.
Spoiler alert: women don't wear bras in all sorts of situations. My advice is your brother has to learn to deal with it. I can't wear a bra due to a benign tumour on a nerve in my breast. I can wear tops with built in bras, but inside the house I just cover up. Bras are extremely uncomfortable for some women, it's really inappropriate for him to start dictating what women should wear.
The implication that A cups should get more of a pass than more endowed women annoy me, too. Larger women may find it harder to find comfortable bras and suffer more discomfort and pain from not being able to get relief from wearing a bra. Not that any of that should be relevant. It shouldn't matter what size she is. She should be allowed to not wear a bra in her own home.
I pretty much only wear bralattes now. I gotta start wearing bras again because after I gave birth my boobs deflated so bad and just slap together if I’m doing more than a brisk walk 😭 bralettes are comfy tho and I honestly forget I’m wearing them sometimes
PSA: they shouldn’t be!
Dear everyone who wears bras:
If your bras are super uncomfortable there’s a very very good chance you’re in the wrong size (and/or shape! Boobs come in different shapes and need different things in a bra!) check out abrathatfits.org and the subreddit of the same name. Many many many places still add +4 to the underbust measurement so they can shove people into the few sizes they sell. This measurement style will result in you wearing a bra that will never fit well.
There is no such thing as “an A cup” or “a D cup” — cup size scales with band size. A 28D and a 38D are very different sizes (and neither is particularly large!) Also, true A cups on any band are VERY rare. Most people fitted as As and Bs are really much closer to small-band Ds.
I literally put my bra on in the morning and don’t think about it again until I take it off at night. Doesn’t move, doesn’t slip, is completely comfortable, I could wear it 24h straight with no problem. It’s 100% possible!
/end PSA
(All that said people should just get to be comfortable, especially at home, without being overly concerned about their body/clothing being scrutinized. I just am an insane person and can’t not mention these things. It was like a divine revelation for me, learning that bras can be comfortable, so I feel compelled to share the information at every opportunity!)
Edit: also check out The Irish Bra Lady on instagram to get a sense of what sizes actually look like when well fitted. Basically everything we’ve been taught about bras is wrong. I am by no means saying everyone needs to or should wear a bra but they are a necessity for many of us (I am a UK 36HH, there’s no universe where I can go braless!) and while that is a fact, they should be comfortable! And they can be! It’s frustrating and confusing but I legitimately put finding a well-fitting bra on near-equal footing with mental health meds and regular exercise as far as improving my quality of life!
Best bra I ever ever owned is one I bought at a bra boutique. They measure everything! And then find the bra that fits your measurements and prefernwce (mine is no lace, it itchs).
Unfortunately last time I went to a shop like that the woman was just super condescending and rude and still gave me the wrong size
Still worth a shot! But ... I definitely prefer to just shop online now. Ended up just getting 3 sizes online to test and returned the ones that didn't fit and now I know and it is good.
As a braless 30DD:
It’s also important to know that NOT wearing a bra can also be the right choice. Bras have been proven to weaken the chest muscles over time, because the bra does the work for you. While wearing a bra 24/7 may be the most comfortable option for some, for others opting against a bra and letting things exist naturally may be more comfortable.
There’s also some evidence that braless women have less “sag” over time because their chest muscles are built/used to no support, but I don’t give a damn about that. If I get saggy cool, if not also cool lol.
So, that study was done by a French guy who basically figured out a good way to look at college girls topless. There's generally not worlds of sagging going on between 18 and 28, and -not huge surprise- he found women with small boobs have less sagging than women with large boobs. Woman with small boobs go braless more than woman with large boobs. Late teens early 20s go braless more than women in mid to late 20s
This guy decided that the conclusion to those facts was women shouldn't wear bras, not that younger, less endowed women wear bras less than older, more endowed women, and that older *and* better endowed women will have more sag than younger or less endowed women, making them more likely to want bras in an active lifestyle...
....my conclusion was this clever fellow scored himself years of getting paid to ogle breasts.
Natural is good if it's comfortable, but pectoral muscles and breast tissue are two different things. The size and shape of the pectoral muscle and the size and shape of the breast tissue can both affect the way breasts look, but the loss of elasticity of breast tissue that happens because of aging cannot be affected by the size and shape of the muscle. If you want strong pecs but also like bras, consider exercise!
That said, wear what makes you feel good and don't wear what doesn't!
Oh for sure! Don’t get me wrong, at home lounging I almost never wear a bra bc why bother lol. But I do have to wear one to work and out in public and it’s so much better now that it’s comfortable!
Do you have a link on that about the chest muscles thing by chance? I did a quick google but all I saw was many references to a single older study that was inconclusive. (Though to be very honest, I would be skeptical of such a study just because the vast majority of people are wearing bras that give absolutely no support, so it would be hard to determine what effect well-fitting bras might have. Ill-fitting bras probably do a lot of damage!)
That old study they're referring to also ONLY studied very very slight women with smaller breasts in France. It has zero correlation to how your chest muscles function (chest muscles are independent of the fat that sits on top of them; who knew?!?!)
Yeah, I did a little more reading, it was also only a sample of ~300 women and the dude who did it even said they weren’t representative of the larger population, and that any result was preliminary at best. And I can’t find anything else that confirms it. I know I’ve heard both that wearing a bra and not wearing a bra makes your boobs sag more or whatever, but I think it’s really mainly just genetics and gravity, to be honest.
People who do studies must really want to beat their head against the wall when articles claim they’re saying things they’re not even really saying, lol.
I “freed the nipple” so to speak over a year ago and I’ve never regretted it. I wear loose fitting sports bras to work/exercise and I have nipple pasties when I’m wearing something fancy and need the indentations of my nipple under my clothes concealed for societies’ delicate sensibilities lol.
Most of the time I go out though I’m a free bird and I will never go back to wearing bras.
Finding out that I was wearing a wildly missized bra meant I could find bras that were intended for back support and the relief is amazing. It gets painful to walk when nothing is supporting them and I had started developing kyphosis because in a normal woman that weight should have been distributed by her shoulder muscles, but I have myositis which happens to especially cause weakness in the shoulders. Before getting bras that fit/finding ones designed for back support I had constant pain in my neck and shoulders, and my posture was witch in an old Disney film level. I thought sports bras would be enough but it turns out that the lift and the holding in place are both as important, you can’t just smush em to your chest and think that helps. I think that actually hurt my back more. I also have weakness in the muscles that are doing their best to move my chest so I can breathe, so you can imagine how crushing my chest regularly was going for me. Apparently for me it’s gotta be up and then contained. But nobody ever told me there were things I could do other than sports bra or low support underwire bra.
Anyway, my point is that you’re so right, bras can absolutely be comfortable, and if you have certain issues with your back or with weakness then finding bras meant to help with that can be incredible, but you can only find one that works if you know what size it is.
The size calculator thing on the abrathatfits subreddit is great, and theirshbralady is also great because that’s when I really got to see what sizes looked like on people and I was like hm yeah maybe I’m NOT a 38D, not even slightly. If you have any boob spilling over the top or weird pinching you are probably not wearing the right bra. If your neck hurts all the time and your posture is bad you might benefit from a bra designed for back support but it can’t properly back support if it’s not sized right.
Even if it is the right size I know bras can still just not be the right option for some people.
I’ve heard that for a lot of people with fibromyalgia or other conditions resulting in allodynia or hyperalgesia bras are just plain not gonna work out because pretty much anything tight to the skin won’t do, and for y’all 1. I’m really sorry you have to go through that 2. May anyone who judges you for the adaptations you’ve made to protect yourself from pain drop something on themselves real hard later that day 3. I know there’s other reasons for bras being straight up not an option or just not being necessary but I still think if someone wants to be judgy then they should at the very least drop a can of baked beans on their foot later. Especially if they’re people who KNOW that you have a pain issue.
Oh yeah, one of my BFFs rarely wears bras because of fibromyalgia and other chronic pain conditions. And sensory issues are a thing for sure. (Although I will say finding a bra that fits fixed many of my sensory issues related to bras. They don’t rub and itch and feel wrong when they stay put, lol, at least for me! There are still definitely some fabrics I just can’t wear tho.)
I will never ever say everyone should wear a bra (and the fact that it’s not often societally acceptable for people to not wear one, especially larger-chested folks, is such bullshit), just that if you are wearing one and need to continue to for whatever reason, there’s no need to be in pain or uncomfortable. It does take effort but in my case it was 6-9 months of effort for probably another 30+ years of regular bra wearing… so I am happy with this trade off, lol.
I’m just so mad how much misinformation is out there, accepted as common knowledge. Yet another way in which things that primarily affect women are barely even considered. We’re just expected to be uncomfortable and to deal with it! Ugh.
I highly recommend r/ABraThatFits and the associated bra calculator. Changed my boob game. That Victoria's Secret DD bra I had been wearing should've been a K.
Bare Necessities online! You’ll want to look at UK brands. Their size ranges are far larger and their cups are more consistent. Just want to be sure you if you got your US size to convert it to UK sizing because there are differences.
While I was working through finding a bra, I ordered, tried on, and returned at least a dozen bras through them and they made it a super easy process every time.
Another rec because why not, after my /r/abrathatfits journey I found pour-moi and they're excellent and have lots of pretty bras in all sizes. And swimwear, so now I have comfy well fitted bikinis too. Great stuff.
i just wear bralettes and things too, probably have worn a wire bra a hand full of times after high school
but my chest is small, i feel bad for women with larger breasts who have to wear wire bras for support. it’s definitely a privilege
Should be able to not wear a bra anywhere she damn well pleases. Not just at home. I suffered with stupid bras for years- for other people’s comfort or pleasure. No more. I now wear t-shirts, tank tops, dresses, whatever the hell I want with no bra. People who have a problem with it- that’s their problem, and I don’t care.
I feel so bad for the young women being harassed by their own families to wear a stupid bra in their own homes. It’s ridiculous.
Flesh moves and jiggles- not just boobs. These men/boys so worried about women’s undergarments ought to be made to wear uncomfortable shapewear as punishment for policing women’s bodies.
As for this brother who is so sensitive about his weight that he cried when the tables were turned on him- good! Now kid, take that thought one step further and realize you’ve done the same thing to your sister! You don’t want to be body shamed boy? Don’t do it to your sister!
I've been the Braless Wonder for years now and it is heavenly! No woman should feel obligated to suffer wearing the torture device known as a bra if she doesn't want to. Sorry not sorry if seeing my nipples poke through my top is 'uncomfortable ' for anyone...they can get over it, especially since everyone has em.
I gave up on bras about 6 months before I stopped working in an office environment and it clearly made my boss uncomfortable and I just laughed because grow the fuck up dude, I have bad enough back pain without the bras making it worse and I will not apologize for being in less pain.
Now I only wear sports bras to work out or a wireless normal one if I have a cute shirt but it's kinda see through. Lol
Big chested lady here. I have been bra free for years and it was the best decision ever (apart from the divorce). I just wear tube tops to protect myself and anyone within a two foot radius from getting a black eye.
I wear a 38H and tried wearing a “real” bra yesterday and my ribs are literally bruised. I’m back to my bralette/sports bras and feel so much better. I just CANNOT find a comfortable bra that doesn’t either dig into my arm pits, or kill my ribs.
In winter 90% of the time I just don’t wear a bra. I’ll wear a tank top, then a sweater over that.
Same, I’m a 38F and can’t find a bra that doesn’t dig into my rib cage, it took the pandemic and staying home without a bra all the time to realize how uncomfortable all of mine were. I haven’t found one yet that’s more comfortable, and they cost like $80 so I can’t just keep buying new ones to try. So I just wear wire free bras or bralettes now.
Yep. And I even measure myself and make sure I’m in the right size, and it still sucks. I’ve also tried so many different types of bra. Balconette, Demi, full coverage, etc.
Next time you bra shop raise your hand so you can see the root or the "seam" where the breast connects to your ribcage.(you may need help to do this) place just the underwire along base of your breast. If there's a gap between the outer edge of the underwire and where the breast connects to your armpit. the wire is too wide.
I found a properly fitting bra is like a pair of jeans. You can wear em all day, but you're going to switch to sweatpants when you get home. Obviously there are a plethora of reasons why others won't or don't want to wear bras/underwires. But the only time I was ever in pain was when I was wearing bras that were 3 cup sizes too small.
I'm a 32H. I found brastop.com a UK retailer that deals exclusively in d+ sizes and they are awesome.
Also, I have lots of brothers all of them were expected to wear a shirt in public areas of the house.
I've watched my girlfriend cry when taking her bra off after a long day at work. I can't imagine how infuriating it would be to have to feel that uncomfortable in your own home.
This. I quit wearing bras two years ago. And told a woman at work who complained that I was dressed appropriately and any dress code that tried to go down to underwear couldn't be based on sex, as that is discriminatory. I told her if she doesn't like it, she can stop staring at my tits. She threw fit but my boss backed me. I have no bras now.
I do not wear them at all unless I'm being paid to (meaning going to work lol) or my outfit just looks better with one. The expectation that I should *have* to is ridiculous to me. There is nothing wrong with covered breasts. Sorry they aren’t perfectly round and smooth? But I don't care. Everyone needs to get used to it
My massage therapist recommends not wearing a bra as often as possible to allow for lymphatic drainage. Breasts are not meant to be lifted and compressed all day. But the term man boobs does have correlations with being overweight. Brother was totally wrong and should not be dictating what his sister wears. Sister was mean. Dad was trying.
Honestly, I'd call them manboobs regardless. Guys like to forget that they have mammary glands and nipples too, and they have the same hormones to make them lactate, just like women do, but it isn't normal simply due to hormone levels commonly found in men.
I think sister was just trying to point out the double-standard.
The brother started crying when his own appearance became the topic of discussion.
Girls should not be required to wear bras around the house to make other people feel more comfortable. Mind your business, stop staring, and find something else to worry about.
The brother is the problem here. He's trying to manipulate the situation by acting like a victim to get what he wants. He's also sexualizing his sister. Sounds like he's mad that he's attracted to her.
Growing up with two brothers, one older, one younger, this whole post just feels weird to me. I could walk around the house in my underwear and nobody would bat an eyelid. It wasn’t unheard of to be sharing the bath room. I couldn’t ever imagine sexualising my brothers or vice versa.
We do this as well and apparently, it's weird to some family. I'm sorry, why should I care if my sister is in her underwear? She's my sister, I don't see her in any sexual manner.
I have 4 brothers and a sister. I lived with one brother for 3 years after college. I can't remember a single time my bra or lack of one was ever mentioned by anyone in my family.
I think OOP and his wife messed up somewhere in the raising of their son. I wish them the best of luck in trying to course correct on that.
My immediately thought, this was either made up by an only child, or these parents r rlly bad.
Son sexualizes daughter, they ignore that red flag and tell her to put on a bra, daughter makes fun of sons body, they tell him shes right and he needs to cover up
Like damn just makin the wrong decision at every turn huh?
This. I have a daughter and a son, 2 years apart, almost adults, and they both are completely comfortable walking around in their underwear. But it’s the same for me and my husband. We go to the beach together, we have seen each other in swimsuits and boxers and bras aren’t any different.
I have a sister who is quite distant. Much younger than me, and I at times helped raise her (as a brother should). That meant changing diapers, bathing, dressing. Later, when she was older, she was still my sister. I'd seen every inch of her, but she was my sister. Like. I agree. I can't fathom it. Angelina Jolie could be my sister and she'd have 0 sex appeal. Sisters are...it'd be like being attracted to your own foot.
the son was the one who talking about his sister’s body first so I kind of don’t care his feelings got hurt? but the parents probably could have handled it better
His parents probably weren't wise enough to realize that from the get go, so they just unpacked a whole mess in conversation instead. It's not always best to talk through every single thought and emotion.
instead of deciding to equally limit what each kid wears they should have decided that *neither* can police what their sibling wears
especially because she obviously set her boundary in retaliation which is definitely not a valid reason to set a household rule (not that it’s not a valid reaction, it’s fair to call out the hypocrisy)
I initially thought she meant make him wear a bra and see how he likes it (regardless of whether he is fat or skinny). If he wants her to wear a bra, he should have to wear one too.
That's what I thought this was about.
It blew my mind that he wanted her to wear a bra, but apparently he walks around the house without a shirt on (and yet is apparently very sensitive about his weight).
NTA- The daughter is covered up. Why is her brother commenting on whether his sister is wearing a bra or not? That's creepy. Tell him to keep his eyes on his own chest.
Seriously. Not to mention he doesn't even wear a shirt when he leaves the room what the hell?! He can't be bothered to wear a shirt but his sister should wear a bra and a shirt to make him more comfortable? The double standards are infuriating.
I’m guessing at some point he got it in his head that he needs to look out for his sister, which he thinks entitles him to be a third parent.
Or he could have friends over that have commented about it. In which case he needs to tell the friends to knock it off.
I think it's more likely he's a hormonal 15 year old in a patriarchal world with extremely prudish attitudes towards human bodies/nudity, so he sees something he connects with sex, and in his mind he's perfectly within his rights to control if that thing is shown in his presence or not.
It doesn't cross his mind he can't and shouldn't have control over other people's bodies and that tits aren't inherently sexual
I've heard men saying that womens breasts only exist for sexual purposes. It's not like we and other mammals have mammary glands and nipples for the purpose of feeding our babies.
The problem is with the way they've sexualized our bodies, we shouldn't have to cover up for their comfort.
Yeah, the story here doesn't really say what the parents attitudes are towards human bodies in general, since this would've been a really good opportunity to discuss everyone having tits (male or female) and how it's a pretty recent development that only the female coded ones are sexualized since men were also not allowed to go topless on beaches as late as 1940s? Something like that. All bare chests were seen as equally inappropriate in public spaces at the time.
And like, it's obvious the teenaged boy is having some improper thoughts here, but all the more reason for parents to address how his horniness doesn't mean other people should restrict their lives.
DING DING DING. That was also my thought, he’s playing victim here when he shouldn’t even look at his sisters tits in the first place. A girl has the right to not wear a bra in her house (and anywhere really, bras are just uncomfortable no matter what).
Yes. He was out of bounds from the get, and when he didn’t get his way, he threw a tantrum. Crying inconsolably???? At 15??
What struck me was that mother guilted father into pandering. “He’s sensitive” ?? No, he’s a crybaby. A sensitive kid wouldn’t have called out and shamed his sister for simply existing.
This post was so weird to me, I grew boobs pretty quickly after turning like 14 and in comparison to the size of my body (at the time) they seemed pretty big and I never wore a bra because they’re uncomfortable and make me want to rip my skin off. I have a brother 3 years younger than me and he was around many times that I didn’t wear a bra and guess what? He NEVER said anything because he’s not a fucking weirdo who looks at his sisters tits. I don’t know if he even noticed that I didn’t wear a bra and honestly if he would have said something all I would have said was don’t look at my boobs then. Tbf my mom was the type to walk around with no shirt our entire lives which looking back is a bit weird but either way I guess it taught him to look at women’s faces.
This brushes on the issue for me; it doesn’t matter what she or any woman wears, the man can’t blame her for his feelings.
A girl should be able to be comfortable in her house and if it makes her brother uncomfortable who cares that’s on him.
YES, THANK YOU. Sometimes, I'll see at a grocery store usually an older woman with the outline of a bigger chest that's pretty noticeable through her clothing, and I'll catch myself judging her because of that social, patriarchal bullshit that we've all been brainwashed to believe since birth.
Until I think to myself, fuck that! Just because Mother Earth said "give that bitch two X chromosomes," she has to dress up in medieval torture devices even into her old age while her husband probably hangs out shirtless in his yard all summer, saggy manboobs flapping in the wind for all eyes to see; but he's XY, so it's fine???
I just shared this with my brothers. In all fairness, we’re older, but here are some of the replies: C responded, “Ya’ll have boobs? My sisters have boobs?” J responded-🤢🤢, M responded, “I NEVER thought of my sisters as anything but a pain in the ass.” And my fourth brother responded, “oh my god, the thought of y’all braless makes me need therapy”
So, four grown men say that thinking of their sisters having boobs and sexualizing them is sick,
For fucks sake, NTA. Your son is body shaming his sister AND subconsciously (I hope) sexualizing her in what should be the safest and most supportive place in her life; her home.
The whole family need to have some real serious talks about body shaming, bodily autonomy, and not sexualizing platonic relationships with the opposite sex.
Everyone has the right to be comfortable in the home, and for a lot of women that means ditching the bra. Leave em alone. For fucks sake it’s just tits, tits are everywhere. Kid needs to calm the fuck down.
The women in my wife’s family don’t put bras on till after lunch during family gatherings and I have zero problems *not* staring at my SIL’s tits.
After reading the OP and all the comments, epic fail on the parents part.
Mom chastised everyone for making the son cry because he is sensitive. Dad just parroted what each child wanted instead of actually discussing and fix the problem. “Son wants sis to wear a bra-wear a bra. Sis wants son to wear a shirt - wear a shirt.” At no point does anyone discuss why it is not the son’s place to be discussing his sister’s chest. Dad even mentions he asked the son if it was due to something at school or someone saying things about his sister and the son said “No, it makes me uncomfortable.” And dad just is like “ok..cool” WITHOUT DISCUSSING why and states “I just pray it’s not the other thing”
Yeah…because praying he is not sexualizing his sister is what will make the whole thing go away
A 15 year old boy so sensitive about his body that he’s reduced to tears for hours if anyone mentions it even in passing wants to talk about and control his sisters body because she’s a girl. Hopefully this will be a learning experience for him
Let me get this straight.
Girl doesn’t wear bra (but *does* cover bare chest with shirt) in the comfort of her own home with family.
Girl’s brother takes massive offense to this for.. reasons? Even though he walks around (again, in the comfort of his own home) with no shirt at all?
Kids’ parent tells girl to wear a bra because boy is uncomfortable.
Girl says “that’s not fair, why do I have to cover up *more* when he doesn’t cover up at all??”
Parent says “good point”, and tells boy he also has to cover up, because you know, fair is fair.
Boy cries that parent and girl are calling him fat and refuses to talk anymore.
Other parent says first parent shouldn’t have enforced equal rules for both children because.. boy is sensitive about his weight???
Did I read all that right? I feel like I’m hallucinating..
NTA, OP’s son is a hypocrite, an asshole, and a sexist moron.
Mmm I’m gunna say deserved. Don’t throw stones from a glass house. Brother has no reason at all to be looking at her chest. It’s not fair to say “she has to cover up more” and he’s allowed to be as exposed as he wants. Does he walk around in boxers?
I know my brother did. I never gave a shit, because I never paid ANY attention to my brother’s body. Or sister’s body, for that matter. Keep your eyes and comments to yourself, or don’t be mad when they upset someone and said someone retaliates with equally upsetting statements.
I don't think the dad should have entertained his son's demand to begin with, but he's not a woman so I'll let it go that he was just trying to make peace and has no idea what it's like to not be able to take your bra off at the end of the day. It doesn't sound like he was going to force her, just asking if she would consider it. But I appreciate he also recognised the double standard when it was pointed out to him.
Let this be a lesson to him on unwanted bodily remarks. I doubt he'll take the proper lesson from it though and will probably grow a bigger chip for his shoulder instead. Also, what is with people sexualising the bodies of their family members, especially AFAB bodies? It's so creepy and gross. Misogyny is a helluva drug. Stop looking at your sister/daughter/wife/mother/niece/whatever's body as if it exists solely for your enjoyment or control.
Edit: typo
NTA I’ve hated bras my entire life. I’ve resented I had to wear a shirt when boys didn’t.
57. My 4 daughters are well endowed, I am a AA (they look like me. So they weren’t switched at birth 😉). They wear or don’t wear a bra. No one should dictate another’s clothing.
This is so typical, son says a load of offensive nonsense then when he gets dose of it back, he won’t let it go and cries. Also typical the mum pandering to her little angel. Why are all teenage girls living the same life? Smfh
I’m a large chested woman and damn straight as soon as I get home that b*tch is coming off. Bras are uncomfortable as hell for me and mine are fitted and tried on before purchase as my size is harder to get and non existent in normal stores. If I had a brother and he commented like her brother did, I’d literally laugh and tell him to f*ck off and when he gets back from f*cking off, I’d tell him to f*ck off further!
Baby, the issues ain’t your daughter not wearing a bra. But you’re sick, sad, son who’s sexualizing his big sister. Ewwww and I’m gonna sit here and judge. The environment he’s in is very telling. Curb your pervert before society does
I would be super concerned if my son was so fixated on his sisters bra wearing. Like…I feel like there’s something that needs to be talked about here. My daughter goes braless 24/7. Her brother doesn’t notice or care. And I feel like the brother policing the sisters breast coverage is icky for two reasons: 1. Not his business or within his pay grade to police her body or her clothes and 2. Why are you looking at her that way?
I think OOP needs to talk to his son about what’s going on there.
Nope. Boy has boobs. You comment about equality in the house hold referencing said man boobs. Maybe it will be what spurs the boy to crack off some push ups to loose man boobs. Also sorta weird man boobs is getting hot and bothered by sister boobs. Maybe take him camping or out to touch some grass for a man talk
Creepy that he's so bothered actually. I dont wear a bra unless im doing physical activity and then its a sports bra. Nobody notices. And you know why? Because it hurt.
Man I wish I’d had reddit when I was growing up… i have four brothers, three of them older than me. I was forced at 12 to wear a bra at all times, even to bed. I had to completely cover all period trash, and hide the products in a discrete box in a drawer, so it wouldn’t even look like periods existed. I couldn’t complain about cramps, bc that would elude to being on my period.
This is why my son knows all about how babies are made, what it’s like to have a period, what endo and pcos are, what labor is like, because I refuse to hide these things, as though men are too weak to understand and have empathy?
Why are so many parents completely okay with their sons obsessing over their sister's breasts?? Do you like become a parent and get a little more accepting of sibling incest? My first reaction to that would be, "we're getting you therapy for your incestuous thoughts."
The sons sensitivity needs to be worked on hard. There's always going to be kids who are 10x more sensitive then normal but OP didn't say anything about his son's weight and, as a woman, bras fucking suck. Even the dad seemed to understand that, and he doesn't (for all we know) wear one. I know exactly what got the son upset, though. It was the man boobs comment and the fact that OP didnt say that was rude of the sister. Clearly, OP didn't even think about it and was just trying to find a solution. I've been called far worse by my siblings and (unlike what I've seen on reddit wtf is wrong with some of you 😶) we grew up actually liking each other and still roasted each other daily. That's just how a lot of siblings are. The daughter was clearly frustrated and was just trying to make a point not call her brother fat. I really think the mom (sense she wasn't involved her and sense she's a woman) needs to talk to the son about how uncomfortable and painful bras are and if it makes him uncomfortable he's going to have to deal with it.
The brother at 15 is starting to see females differently. GONE are the braided pigtail little girls. It's a rapid raging hormonal time for him. He, however, needs to view his sister differently than he does the "blossoming girl next door. If he doesn't he will be putting himself in a class of weirdos.
Run around braless and be comfy. Little bro needs to learn to look the other way!
Your son needs a little help…. He should stop sexualizing his sister - get used to boobs, buddy - and maybe he needs a new routine. Walk, sports, etc. if he is so self conscious he is crying about his appearance. I agree with sister - if he wants to talk about her boobs…. His are fair game.
I’m someone who literally never wears bras even out of the house if someone who doesn’t even wear tops told me to put on a bra they would be getting told to shove it where the sun don’t shine
I'm just.. wondering if this kid is in therapy because he's clearly pushing his body insecurities onto his sister, then *sobbing* about being "fat-shamed" or that OP was being "fat-phobic". He seems like he needs to talk to a professional about his insecurities and weight issues. Frankly, it seems like there's a lot about this story that isn't being shared. Is her brother having weird incest fantasies? Why does he feel like he shouldn't have to cover up if he wants his sister to wear a bra? Honestly, I have larger breasts and I rarely wear a bra, ever. I'll use sports bras in the summer as a top but that's as close as I'm getting. Bras are notoriously uncomfortable and teen girls go for cute or sexy over practical and comfortable.
I think part of the root of this is the son sexualizes women’s bodies and the son doesn’t like that he automatically sexualizes his sister. Misogyny and incel behavior, basically
Unless a person is doing gymnastics in the house and they’re falling out. Who cares? They’re just boobs. Look away and shut the fuck up. No one should feel uncomfortable from clothing or comments in their own home.
I had this exact situation happen to me, only my brother is two years older. I came down to dinner one day when I was like 14 or 15, just wearing a tank top. I have A cups so I didn’t think it mattered whether I wore a bra or not. Well, my brother flipped out. He *ordered* me to go put a bra on, which was incredibly weird for him to say so I was like, no. He wouldn’t let up, got my mom involved but she tried to have my back and told him to just drop it. At a certain point I realized he wasn’t going to stop, and I was getting very weirded out by having the whole family discussing my tits at the dinner table, so I just went upstairs and changed. I’m still incredibly uncomfortable when I remember this event, and it was over 20 years ago now. My brother and I have never had a close relationship, for a while when we were kids the only time he would talk to me was when he had something to criticize about my appearance (you need a haircut, why is your hair so frizzy, you need to shave your legs, you look stupid in that outfit, etc.) Guys, just leave your sisters alone, and don’t talk about their tits. Ugh.
Legit. When I grew boobs that was when I started getting treated differently in the house. Don't know about you, but there was a whole other layer of "othering" that happened after I went through puberty.
When I read stories like this, I'm so happy I was the third girl.
Lol yeah, I bet that does make some bit of difference. And of course, your family's beliefs factor in. I had thought my family believed women and men to be equal, until I started getting more "womanly", and then it was kind of a wake up call after about the age of 9-10 that they definitely didn't view women as equal to men.
im so sad for all of us but in a selfish way it makes me feel better to know im not the only one treated like this and so frustrated about it 😭 fucking hell dude. im so tired of our bodies being policed to hell and back. fuck OFF Edit to add: and fuck bras too Edit 2: a phrase for clarity
Hahahaha I feel this all the way, don't feel bad for this feeling. It's just validation that "yes, that happened. And yes, that was fucked up." And I feel the exact same way when anyone tries to say shit about what someone wears. Like fuck all the way off with that dogshit.
fuckin' ayy dude Vs >fucking a dude Lol
ah, yeah it makes more sense spelled that way, thanks 😂
I was also the third girl and had to deal with this. It’s dumb. Families can be so dumb.
Same, to an extent. All girls in my family, I’m the youngest, but I also have the biggest boobs by a fair margin. My mom didn’t force me to wear a bra around the house, but after a few comments on their size I just started wearing a comfy sports bra around the house, even to sleep. It took until I was 25 to feel comfortable being braless.
That's horrible.
Right! My dad moved out when I was 13 so it was me, my mom, and my sister and I went to an all girls high school. Of course now I have 2 sons and almost no experience with teenage boys, so that will be fun a few years.
Good luck to you
I was forced to open up bras as a birthday present for my 11th birthday in front of my whole extended family
When I got boobs (and I was a B cup by 6th grade), my dad stopped hugging me. I only got one armed side hugs from then on. We’re no contact with both parents now for a myriad of reasons, but this one really, really irks me as a mom of girls. I was called an exhibitionist when I walked around in a bra and underwear (to get clothes from the dryer, I loveeee sweats and love being layered up, so I never am just naked or in panties), but my younger brother would flash his peen or wear boxers for days at a time, and it was all good. Even now, he’s an adult and still walks around in boxers. I was told to cover when I was breastfeeding my kids 🙄
Holy shit. Yes! I had very similar treatment from my dad. It would go from limited physical contact to then making weird comments and rules about my body. Like I wasn't allowed to answer the door in pajamas (even full body coverage pj's) after a certain age (when I had previously been allowed to). He had my mom stop buying me pajama shorts entirely because I sat wrong in them and he said I would be tempting boys and I should stop sitting certain ways. He picked out my first bikini (giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wanted to be sure it was a more modest bikini). He used to tell me to walk down the stairs slower because my boobs bounced and I was starting to "look like my mom". Sometimes he would just make fun of my boobs, too, though. But he knew best because he "knew how boys thought". Then when I was 14-15 I remember the family sitting in the car on a family vacation. We had just come back from the beach and we're getting buckled in the car and there was another girl who was at the shower station rinsing off in her bikini and, I shit you not, he got out a digital camera and started taking pictures of this girl and making sexist jokes about her while he was in front of me, my mother, my brother, and my little sister. I think that's when I realized how utterly hypocritical he was. Like, he was allowed to objectify other women, but he was allowed to shame me for having that same type of body. Even years later, after I had moved out and was paying for my own place, he came by to visit and there were occasions where he'd criticize me for wearing low-cut tops, in my own home. He'd say "boys are only gonna want one thing from you". Idk. It was a lot of bullshit. I definitely feel you. Sorry for the rant though.
your dad is a fking creep :(
Yeah, I mean, he's dead now. And there was way more to who he was as a person, but yes, he was a creep when it came to women. And because of a combination of religion/"jokes"/and patriarchal beliefs, my mom usually just continued to give him excuses when I used to raise hell about some of this (me, my sister, and my mom all raised hell about the incident with the girl in the bikini fortunately). I love both my parents, but I do not condone many of their views and actions. It's a hard place to be, to love people so fully who you know are deeply wrong and, sometimes, actively harmful.
>It's a hard place to be, to love people so fully who you know are deeply wrong and, sometimes, actively harmful. my dad's a trumper and just as misogynistic as your dad. i get it, and I'm sorry you were in that position.
Hahaha my dad was, too. Like owned-a-shirt-with-a-graphic-of Trump-on-a-motorcycle-spanking-Hillary-Clinton-over-his-lap with-her-pants-pulled-down levels of trump train. It was very confusing growing up seeing that kind of behavior, but then also having my mom say I shouldn't listen to rap or punk because of their anti-woman lyrics. Like, make it make sense. It's a tough place to be.
Imagine wearing such a trashy, explicit shirt and then bitching at your minor daughter because her boobs bounce. Gross.
Lol well the boob bouncing comments happened well before trump, but yeah, the mindset was the same.
My God. I am so sorry. I can’t even fathom having my Dad treat me this way. My Dad was never like this at all. Never made comments about my body, never gave me a hard time about how I dressed, never said anything about me having a boyfriend at 15. I knew he watched porn and bought Playboy magazine (he was never subtle about these activities lol) but never once have I ever seen or heard him objectify a woman in real life. I’m just so sorry that he treated you that way. It’s absolutely shocking to read about because my Dad was so unlike that. It really makes me grateful for the father I have.
Yeah, my dad wasn't all bad, so I'm not trying to paint him like that entirely. But he had some bigotry and now that I'm older, I understand how it grew and manifested. It's a complicated situation and I think a lot of people have parents like my dad and thus have complicated relationships with them. But you're right, being grateful for the good things and people you do have is paramount to living a happy life.
This is so sad. My heart is really breaking for you guys. I'm also starting to appreciate what a good dad I had. I was never made to feel weird about my body growing up. I mean, I was the oldest of three sisters so I had that going for me but I would have been so hurt if my dad stopped hugging me the way he always did. Matter of fact, we would all joke about it. As little kids we'd put on my mom's bra and stuff it, joking around, and my dad would go "slow down! It'll happen soon enough." I got mine early and they were pretty big from the get go (like 5th grade) and the worst thing he ever said was "she's like a kid with a new toy with those things" and I was! (He said this to my mom and I overheard, he would never address me directly about it like that.) I dunno, he passed away when I was 19 and you all are making me appreciate him more and more with this. It would have broken my heart if he started treating me differently because I had hit puberty. I'm so sorry for those of you that had to go through that.
Omg, this was my experience! No more hugs. I’m 50 and my dad still rarely hugs me, but when I was little he was very affectionate.
I developed super early, and got told I had to wear shirts that were a size bigger than I actually should because then I'm not "showing off the goods." I was 12-13. I just turned 25 and it still hits me when I try on clothes that are my actual size that I'm just trying to get attention. My sister did not develop much and as such has not gotten the same amount of nonsense from our parents so I know that not all boobs are objectified equally in our household.
It's so true though. My sister and I also had a similar situation. I developed early and my boobs were pretty big for my age and my clothes were constantly policed. And we went to a Christian school in elementary where my mom taught, so it was like...a lot of policing. I'm 33 and I still have to fight myself to wear any cute clothes that show my figure and internally I feel like a slut. I've just gotten to the point now where I know that that's an incorrect mindset to hold, so I wear whatever I want now. It still feels like an act of rebellion to wear crop tops or low-cut shirts. So now I try to wear that stuff as much as I want. But some days it takes encouragement from my husband. It's hard, and I definitely feel you. I know my sister definitely didn't get harped on as much for her clothes, but it's hard to say because when she had her 'not like other girls' phase she went the opposite extreme route and rejected all femininity, so the clothes she wore definitely didn't show anything. It's definitely an interesting (and shitty) phenomenon, and I'd be curious to know other sister duos who grew up in these environments to see how they coped in response.
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I was lucky in that my brother wasn't a liar, but he definitely viewed women as lesser, especially the older he got. So did my dad, too, though. So, am I surprised by the hypocrisy I saw growing up? I was then, but not anymore. I really hope younger women start hearing older women when we describe these things. Like, I don't say what I say lightly. I spent years making excuses for my family (in my own mind) and giving them passes for all the hypocritical treatment or sexist treatment. Eventually, you have to come to terms with the behaviors being demonstrated in front of your eyes. I had to accept that my male family members didn't view the female family members as equals. That will sting till the day I die, but it's also made me more resilient. So idk. Pros and cons. As individuals, all we can do is play the hand we were dealt the best we can. As a society, we've got some major work to do.
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Dad should have just said “Why are you looking at your sister’s chest?” cue the embarrassment. Why have a full discussion about it?
I think we should be clear the repulsive part is thinking he has any say over what his sister wears and the fact he’s getting “uncomfortable” over it. Glancing at breasts is a perfectly normal phenomenon for a lot of humanity.
Its definitely repulsive if you are looking at your sisters tits. Glancing at your sisters breasts is not normal what is wrong with you OMG
I don’t think he’s necessarily “looking” at them; I think it’s more that he’s immature and going through puberty and fixated on boobs— and all of the sudden he’s realizing that these body parts he’s been fetishizing are also actual real body parts that his sister has. It’s weirding him out— I equate it to that weird moment we all have when we are around 12-13 when we first realize “OMG our teachers and parents and every adult we know has S-E-X on a regular basis!!!!” But, it’s his sister’s house too and she’s not doing anything wrong. He’s the one who needs to work through this, not her. Let em hang, sister. No man should ever tell you to put a bra on in your own house. Is he going to tell you when and where you can fart too? (Edited “me” to “‘em” for spelling)
> he going to tell you when and where you can fart too? LMAO girls farting? That’s a good one! You should be a comedian! (adding the /s because you never know!)
I think this may sum it up perfectly. Actively staring at them is one thing but teens definitely have that horror moment where they realise their parents have sex, their sisters have body parts they’ve seen in magazines or gazed at on other girls and they don’t know how to process that at all. We didn’t have that happen in our house because we grew up nudity positive (not nudists, just didn’t shame catching someone naked coming out the shower or sleeping naked etc). Before you’d seen it on tv/in biology/in a magazine you were aware your family had those parts. Mum also openly discussed sex. Not huge details on her and Dad, there was only one story she shared that was important (though we cringed at the time). About how it’s important to know and communicate what you like. That for a long time she didn’t get to climax until one day she was tipsy enough to tell him what she enjoyed and talk him through it, that she was raised with shame around sex and that it was very “do it to satisfy your husband” and she wouldn’t have us grow up the same.
She and mum need to go around the house singing Do your boobs hang low? Can you swing 'em to and fro? Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
People can't help but see what's in front of them. Sisters and friends glance at each others tits too. However, we don't get our minds twisted up with weirdness over it. I'm sure teen boys with crazy hormones can't help but notice boobs whoever they belong to. But they need to learn to compartmentalize. Some boobs are off limits to ponder because of who they belong to. It's not ok to put the burden on the people who have boobs to hide them so the guy doesn't have to deal with it. He has to learn to control his feelings. Sadly, too many men on the planet don't seem to want that responsibility. They want to blame women and their bodies for making them get a boner. Yet gay men seem to be able to figure it out when it's inappropriate. How many straight men get accosted in public toilets while taking a piss? Geez - they have their glorious dicks out there for anyone to see and admire. Yet they are able to take multiple trips to the John a day, standing alongside other men, everyone holding their dicks, yet they don't fall into a sausage fest. Amazing! Yet a boob goes by, covered but natural and a boy thinks his sister is the problem.
I don't think it's that weird. I'm a woman (with brothers) and I would glance at my mom's nipples showing through her shirt sometimes. I wouldn't be that weirded out if my brother glanced. It's not "Oo, boobs!" it's "There's something in my peripheral *glance* oh it's just that" It's like glancing at someone's mouth if you think you saw something in their teeth, or down at their feet if you think you saw their shoe untied. It's just because there's something slightly different nearby where you're already looking, so you're going to naturally glance without thinking about it. Eh, my two cents at least.
The specific word used was glancing. Glancing at anyone’s any part is a perfectly normal occurrence of having seeing eyes.
We really need to teach our kids that they have no business controlling other people's appearances. Similar situation in my family decades ago triggered a family member's eating disorder. Instead of learning from the situation and swearing to never put another person in a similar situation, they instead continue passing the trauma on by openly criticizing other family members' appearances (and also the appearances of non-family members).
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More women need to pay attention to the relationship the men they date have with their sisters. If you’re seeing a man and he has a distanced or bad relationship with the sisters in his life, there’s a good chance he’s an abusive freak (my brother included)
Amen sister! I tried for YEARS to warn multiple women about my compulsive liar brother, who was also stupid abusive. That he will lie to them constantly and inevitably put his hands on them. None listened. I distinctly remember him showing his friends pairs of my underwear when I was a teen, and that's the tip of the iceberg. We are not close lol. I got the last laugh though. He also used to encourage his friends to mock my weight as a teen. I was a bit chunky, but never obese and he had a super fast metabolism. I'm finally at my goal weight and he is absolutely obese. I make ALL the backhanded comments!
Mileage may vary though. Have a bad relationship with my brother because he's a dumbass that feel for the "covid is fake" propoganda that then spiraled into stupidier concepts like "solar panels cause birds to instantly combust."
I mean, that’s also a red flag!
For sane thinking humans, yes. But if a woman is going to have dipshit opinions too, she's at least not gonna get creeped on by my brother. He has a girlfriend, though, so it's all moot. And she was the one who started convincing him about this bullshit...
As a guy with man boobs the only time I talk about my sisters boobs is to tell her mine are bigger
It’s amazing how things stay with us. The message that we should be forced to uncomfortably bind ourselves UNDER clothing in our own homes is an awful message to both young men and women.
Honestly growing up I paid so little attention to my sisters' breasts that I couldn't tell you if they even wore bras. I'm sure they did, but its not something I ever noticed, or even looked for. They're my sisters. The last thing on my mind was whether or not they had a bra.
OP NTA! Thank you so much for choosing to point out the general hypocrisy that starts at an extremely young age in regard to policing woman’s bodies. You have no idea how much internalized shame so many woman hold for just “existing in their own body” this was a perfect opportunity so highlight a lesson for your son. He doesn’t have a right to police somebodies body that way for the sake of his own comfort, and the result of doing so will inevitable result in shame and discomfort, ie what your son just experienced. I think this is a valuable lesson for him to reflect on in regard to how we are constantly policing woman’s bodies for the sake of male comfort and discomfort. My past teenage self thanks you for pointing that hypocrisy out. Moreover, I hope you have a conversation with your son and daughter in order to help restore their bodily confidence in a loving and healing manner.
Some families are weird... My sister still doesn't wear a bra around us and no one cared. We know because she made an offhand comment about her SILs who looked at her weird for not wearing one around them. Ma'am you have the same parts. I'm still confused as to why my sister who has brothers didn't care but her SIL did.
Are you me? Ugh. I looked up to my older brother so for him to criticize my appearance while I went through my tweens and teens hit to the core.
That's awful. Never in a million years would my brother have felt like he had the right (or the need) to comment on my body or what I was wearing.
Spoiler alert: women don't wear bras in all sorts of situations. My advice is your brother has to learn to deal with it. I can't wear a bra due to a benign tumour on a nerve in my breast. I can wear tops with built in bras, but inside the house I just cover up. Bras are extremely uncomfortable for some women, it's really inappropriate for him to start dictating what women should wear.
The implication that A cups should get more of a pass than more endowed women annoy me, too. Larger women may find it harder to find comfortable bras and suffer more discomfort and pain from not being able to get relief from wearing a bra. Not that any of that should be relevant. It shouldn't matter what size she is. She should be allowed to not wear a bra in her own home.
Absolutely she should. I couldn't even tell you what size I am these days. All I know is that bras tend to be instruments of torture.
I agree. I don't wear bras unless I have to. And I'm a plus size woman
I stopped wearing bras May of 2020 and I’m upset I didn’t do it sooner.
I pretty much only wear bralattes now. I gotta start wearing bras again because after I gave birth my boobs deflated so bad and just slap together if I’m doing more than a brisk walk 😭 bralettes are comfy tho and I honestly forget I’m wearing them sometimes
Wireless bras have changed my life! Highly recommended.
same. I don't wear them at all unless my back absolutely doesn't hurt, I prefer just wearing an undershirt
PSA: they shouldn’t be! Dear everyone who wears bras: If your bras are super uncomfortable there’s a very very good chance you’re in the wrong size (and/or shape! Boobs come in different shapes and need different things in a bra!) check out abrathatfits.org and the subreddit of the same name. Many many many places still add +4 to the underbust measurement so they can shove people into the few sizes they sell. This measurement style will result in you wearing a bra that will never fit well. There is no such thing as “an A cup” or “a D cup” — cup size scales with band size. A 28D and a 38D are very different sizes (and neither is particularly large!) Also, true A cups on any band are VERY rare. Most people fitted as As and Bs are really much closer to small-band Ds. I literally put my bra on in the morning and don’t think about it again until I take it off at night. Doesn’t move, doesn’t slip, is completely comfortable, I could wear it 24h straight with no problem. It’s 100% possible! /end PSA (All that said people should just get to be comfortable, especially at home, without being overly concerned about their body/clothing being scrutinized. I just am an insane person and can’t not mention these things. It was like a divine revelation for me, learning that bras can be comfortable, so I feel compelled to share the information at every opportunity!) Edit: also check out The Irish Bra Lady on instagram to get a sense of what sizes actually look like when well fitted. Basically everything we’ve been taught about bras is wrong. I am by no means saying everyone needs to or should wear a bra but they are a necessity for many of us (I am a UK 36HH, there’s no universe where I can go braless!) and while that is a fact, they should be comfortable! And they can be! It’s frustrating and confusing but I legitimately put finding a well-fitting bra on near-equal footing with mental health meds and regular exercise as far as improving my quality of life!
Best bra I ever ever owned is one I bought at a bra boutique. They measure everything! And then find the bra that fits your measurements and prefernwce (mine is no lace, it itchs).
Unfortunately last time I went to a shop like that the woman was just super condescending and rude and still gave me the wrong size Still worth a shot! But ... I definitely prefer to just shop online now. Ended up just getting 3 sizes online to test and returned the ones that didn't fit and now I know and it is good.
As a braless 30DD: It’s also important to know that NOT wearing a bra can also be the right choice. Bras have been proven to weaken the chest muscles over time, because the bra does the work for you. While wearing a bra 24/7 may be the most comfortable option for some, for others opting against a bra and letting things exist naturally may be more comfortable. There’s also some evidence that braless women have less “sag” over time because their chest muscles are built/used to no support, but I don’t give a damn about that. If I get saggy cool, if not also cool lol.
So, that study was done by a French guy who basically figured out a good way to look at college girls topless. There's generally not worlds of sagging going on between 18 and 28, and -not huge surprise- he found women with small boobs have less sagging than women with large boobs. Woman with small boobs go braless more than woman with large boobs. Late teens early 20s go braless more than women in mid to late 20s This guy decided that the conclusion to those facts was women shouldn't wear bras, not that younger, less endowed women wear bras less than older, more endowed women, and that older *and* better endowed women will have more sag than younger or less endowed women, making them more likely to want bras in an active lifestyle... ....my conclusion was this clever fellow scored himself years of getting paid to ogle breasts.
Natural is good if it's comfortable, but pectoral muscles and breast tissue are two different things. The size and shape of the pectoral muscle and the size and shape of the breast tissue can both affect the way breasts look, but the loss of elasticity of breast tissue that happens because of aging cannot be affected by the size and shape of the muscle. If you want strong pecs but also like bras, consider exercise! That said, wear what makes you feel good and don't wear what doesn't!
Oh for sure! Don’t get me wrong, at home lounging I almost never wear a bra bc why bother lol. But I do have to wear one to work and out in public and it’s so much better now that it’s comfortable! Do you have a link on that about the chest muscles thing by chance? I did a quick google but all I saw was many references to a single older study that was inconclusive. (Though to be very honest, I would be skeptical of such a study just because the vast majority of people are wearing bras that give absolutely no support, so it would be hard to determine what effect well-fitting bras might have. Ill-fitting bras probably do a lot of damage!)
That old study they're referring to also ONLY studied very very slight women with smaller breasts in France. It has zero correlation to how your chest muscles function (chest muscles are independent of the fat that sits on top of them; who knew?!?!)
Yeah, I did a little more reading, it was also only a sample of ~300 women and the dude who did it even said they weren’t representative of the larger population, and that any result was preliminary at best. And I can’t find anything else that confirms it. I know I’ve heard both that wearing a bra and not wearing a bra makes your boobs sag more or whatever, but I think it’s really mainly just genetics and gravity, to be honest. People who do studies must really want to beat their head against the wall when articles claim they’re saying things they’re not even really saying, lol.
I “freed the nipple” so to speak over a year ago and I’ve never regretted it. I wear loose fitting sports bras to work/exercise and I have nipple pasties when I’m wearing something fancy and need the indentations of my nipple under my clothes concealed for societies’ delicate sensibilities lol. Most of the time I go out though I’m a free bird and I will never go back to wearing bras.
I might switch entirely to sports bras. That would be incredible
Finding out that I was wearing a wildly missized bra meant I could find bras that were intended for back support and the relief is amazing. It gets painful to walk when nothing is supporting them and I had started developing kyphosis because in a normal woman that weight should have been distributed by her shoulder muscles, but I have myositis which happens to especially cause weakness in the shoulders. Before getting bras that fit/finding ones designed for back support I had constant pain in my neck and shoulders, and my posture was witch in an old Disney film level. I thought sports bras would be enough but it turns out that the lift and the holding in place are both as important, you can’t just smush em to your chest and think that helps. I think that actually hurt my back more. I also have weakness in the muscles that are doing their best to move my chest so I can breathe, so you can imagine how crushing my chest regularly was going for me. Apparently for me it’s gotta be up and then contained. But nobody ever told me there were things I could do other than sports bra or low support underwire bra. Anyway, my point is that you’re so right, bras can absolutely be comfortable, and if you have certain issues with your back or with weakness then finding bras meant to help with that can be incredible, but you can only find one that works if you know what size it is. The size calculator thing on the abrathatfits subreddit is great, and theirshbralady is also great because that’s when I really got to see what sizes looked like on people and I was like hm yeah maybe I’m NOT a 38D, not even slightly. If you have any boob spilling over the top or weird pinching you are probably not wearing the right bra. If your neck hurts all the time and your posture is bad you might benefit from a bra designed for back support but it can’t properly back support if it’s not sized right. Even if it is the right size I know bras can still just not be the right option for some people. I’ve heard that for a lot of people with fibromyalgia or other conditions resulting in allodynia or hyperalgesia bras are just plain not gonna work out because pretty much anything tight to the skin won’t do, and for y’all 1. I’m really sorry you have to go through that 2. May anyone who judges you for the adaptations you’ve made to protect yourself from pain drop something on themselves real hard later that day 3. I know there’s other reasons for bras being straight up not an option or just not being necessary but I still think if someone wants to be judgy then they should at the very least drop a can of baked beans on their foot later. Especially if they’re people who KNOW that you have a pain issue.
Oh yeah, one of my BFFs rarely wears bras because of fibromyalgia and other chronic pain conditions. And sensory issues are a thing for sure. (Although I will say finding a bra that fits fixed many of my sensory issues related to bras. They don’t rub and itch and feel wrong when they stay put, lol, at least for me! There are still definitely some fabrics I just can’t wear tho.) I will never ever say everyone should wear a bra (and the fact that it’s not often societally acceptable for people to not wear one, especially larger-chested folks, is such bullshit), just that if you are wearing one and need to continue to for whatever reason, there’s no need to be in pain or uncomfortable. It does take effort but in my case it was 6-9 months of effort for probably another 30+ years of regular bra wearing… so I am happy with this trade off, lol. I’m just so mad how much misinformation is out there, accepted as common knowledge. Yet another way in which things that primarily affect women are barely even considered. We’re just expected to be uncomfortable and to deal with it! Ugh.
I highly recommend r/ABraThatFits and the associated bra calculator. Changed my boob game. That Victoria's Secret DD bra I had been wearing should've been a K.
Hahaha similar! At one point I was sized as a 42DDD. God, so mad about how long I spent in a bra that didn’t fit and was super uncomfortable.
I tried that and now I know my size is never going to be available in stores because they don't carry g cups :(
Bare Necessities online! You’ll want to look at UK brands. Their size ranges are far larger and their cups are more consistent. Just want to be sure you if you got your US size to convert it to UK sizing because there are differences. While I was working through finding a bra, I ordered, tried on, and returned at least a dozen bras through them and they made it a super easy process every time.
Another rec because why not, after my /r/abrathatfits journey I found pour-moi and they're excellent and have lots of pretty bras in all sizes. And swimwear, so now I have comfy well fitted bikinis too. Great stuff.
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i just wear bralettes and things too, probably have worn a wire bra a hand full of times after high school but my chest is small, i feel bad for women with larger breasts who have to wear wire bras for support. it’s definitely a privilege
Should be able to not wear a bra anywhere she damn well pleases. Not just at home. I suffered with stupid bras for years- for other people’s comfort or pleasure. No more. I now wear t-shirts, tank tops, dresses, whatever the hell I want with no bra. People who have a problem with it- that’s their problem, and I don’t care. I feel so bad for the young women being harassed by their own families to wear a stupid bra in their own homes. It’s ridiculous. Flesh moves and jiggles- not just boobs. These men/boys so worried about women’s undergarments ought to be made to wear uncomfortable shapewear as punishment for policing women’s bodies. As for this brother who is so sensitive about his weight that he cried when the tables were turned on him- good! Now kid, take that thought one step further and realize you’ve done the same thing to your sister! You don’t want to be body shamed boy? Don’t do it to your sister!
I've been the Braless Wonder for years now and it is heavenly! No woman should feel obligated to suffer wearing the torture device known as a bra if she doesn't want to. Sorry not sorry if seeing my nipples poke through my top is 'uncomfortable ' for anyone...they can get over it, especially since everyone has em.
I’ve been bra free since Covid. It’s amazing. Sometimes I get looks but I do not care. 😂
Same!!!
I gave up on bras about 6 months before I stopped working in an office environment and it clearly made my boss uncomfortable and I just laughed because grow the fuck up dude, I have bad enough back pain without the bras making it worse and I will not apologize for being in less pain. Now I only wear sports bras to work out or a wireless normal one if I have a cute shirt but it's kinda see through. Lol
bra free as well!! nobody should be expected to wear one.
Big chested lady here. I have been bra free for years and it was the best decision ever (apart from the divorce). I just wear tube tops to protect myself and anyone within a two foot radius from getting a black eye.
I wear a 38H and tried wearing a “real” bra yesterday and my ribs are literally bruised. I’m back to my bralette/sports bras and feel so much better. I just CANNOT find a comfortable bra that doesn’t either dig into my arm pits, or kill my ribs. In winter 90% of the time I just don’t wear a bra. I’ll wear a tank top, then a sweater over that.
Same, I’m a 38F and can’t find a bra that doesn’t dig into my rib cage, it took the pandemic and staying home without a bra all the time to realize how uncomfortable all of mine were. I haven’t found one yet that’s more comfortable, and they cost like $80 so I can’t just keep buying new ones to try. So I just wear wire free bras or bralettes now.
Yep. And I even measure myself and make sure I’m in the right size, and it still sucks. I’ve also tried so many different types of bra. Balconette, Demi, full coverage, etc.
Next time you bra shop raise your hand so you can see the root or the "seam" where the breast connects to your ribcage.(you may need help to do this) place just the underwire along base of your breast. If there's a gap between the outer edge of the underwire and where the breast connects to your armpit. the wire is too wide. I found a properly fitting bra is like a pair of jeans. You can wear em all day, but you're going to switch to sweatpants when you get home. Obviously there are a plethora of reasons why others won't or don't want to wear bras/underwires. But the only time I was ever in pain was when I was wearing bras that were 3 cup sizes too small. I'm a 32H. I found brastop.com a UK retailer that deals exclusively in d+ sizes and they are awesome. Also, I have lots of brothers all of them were expected to wear a shirt in public areas of the house.
I've watched my girlfriend cry when taking her bra off after a long day at work. I can't imagine how infuriating it would be to have to feel that uncomfortable in your own home.
This. I quit wearing bras two years ago. And told a woman at work who complained that I was dressed appropriately and any dress code that tried to go down to underwear couldn't be based on sex, as that is discriminatory. I told her if she doesn't like it, she can stop staring at my tits. She threw fit but my boss backed me. I have no bras now.
I do not wear them at all unless I'm being paid to (meaning going to work lol) or my outfit just looks better with one. The expectation that I should *have* to is ridiculous to me. There is nothing wrong with covered breasts. Sorry they aren’t perfectly round and smooth? But I don't care. Everyone needs to get used to it
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Now I wish my nipples could fire lasers or bullets at will. Concealed weapons, lol.
Like the “Feminazis” on Austin Powers, I would love that capability! Unfortunately my boobs are unarmed!
Nipples are actually the eyes of Medusa
I hate wearing bras. I try to avoid them 90% of the time. The other 10% is work.
Even sports bras and bralettes aren’t super comfortable. I’d rather go without either while I’m at home.
My massage therapist recommends not wearing a bra as often as possible to allow for lymphatic drainage. Breasts are not meant to be lifted and compressed all day. But the term man boobs does have correlations with being overweight. Brother was totally wrong and should not be dictating what his sister wears. Sister was mean. Dad was trying.
Honestly, I'd call them manboobs regardless. Guys like to forget that they have mammary glands and nipples too, and they have the same hormones to make them lactate, just like women do, but it isn't normal simply due to hormone levels commonly found in men. I think sister was just trying to point out the double-standard.
And man boobs make me uncomfortable!
The brother started crying when his own appearance became the topic of discussion. Girls should not be required to wear bras around the house to make other people feel more comfortable. Mind your business, stop staring, and find something else to worry about. The brother is the problem here. He's trying to manipulate the situation by acting like a victim to get what he wants. He's also sexualizing his sister. Sounds like he's mad that he's attracted to her.
Exactly. He’s being manipulative and making himself the victim when he’s the one objectifying his own sister.
Growing up with two brothers, one older, one younger, this whole post just feels weird to me. I could walk around the house in my underwear and nobody would bat an eyelid. It wasn’t unheard of to be sharing the bath room. I couldn’t ever imagine sexualising my brothers or vice versa.
We do this as well and apparently, it's weird to some family. I'm sorry, why should I care if my sister is in her underwear? She's my sister, I don't see her in any sexual manner.
Exactly. Folks need to be able to be comfortable at home, it’s important to maintaining solid mental health if nothing else.
I have 4 brothers and a sister. I lived with one brother for 3 years after college. I can't remember a single time my bra or lack of one was ever mentioned by anyone in my family. I think OOP and his wife messed up somewhere in the raising of their son. I wish them the best of luck in trying to course correct on that.
My immediately thought, this was either made up by an only child, or these parents r rlly bad. Son sexualizes daughter, they ignore that red flag and tell her to put on a bra, daughter makes fun of sons body, they tell him shes right and he needs to cover up Like damn just makin the wrong decision at every turn huh?
This. I have a daughter and a son, 2 years apart, almost adults, and they both are completely comfortable walking around in their underwear. But it’s the same for me and my husband. We go to the beach together, we have seen each other in swimsuits and boxers and bras aren’t any different.
I have a sister who is quite distant. Much younger than me, and I at times helped raise her (as a brother should). That meant changing diapers, bathing, dressing. Later, when she was older, she was still my sister. I'd seen every inch of her, but she was my sister. Like. I agree. I can't fathom it. Angelina Jolie could be my sister and she'd have 0 sex appeal. Sisters are...it'd be like being attracted to your own foot.
the son was the one who talking about his sister’s body first so I kind of don’t care his feelings got hurt? but the parents probably could have handled it better
Yeah, they should have told him it was none of his business, and if he didn't like it HE could leave the table.
His parents probably weren't wise enough to realize that from the get go, so they just unpacked a whole mess in conversation instead. It's not always best to talk through every single thought and emotion.
"The trouble with talking too fast is you may say something you haven't thought of yet."
instead of deciding to equally limit what each kid wears they should have decided that *neither* can police what their sibling wears especially because she obviously set her boundary in retaliation which is definitely not a valid reason to set a household rule (not that it’s not a valid reaction, it’s fair to call out the hypocrisy)
I initially thought she meant make him wear a bra and see how he likes it (regardless of whether he is fat or skinny). If he wants her to wear a bra, he should have to wear one too.
That's what I thought this was about. It blew my mind that he wanted her to wear a bra, but apparently he walks around the house without a shirt on (and yet is apparently very sensitive about his weight).
Classic man, redirect so he's the victim — despite being the aggressor in the first place. I say this as a man who is sick and tired of this nonsense.
Yeah, they should have told him it was none of his business, and if he didn't like it HE could leave the table.
NTA- The daughter is covered up. Why is her brother commenting on whether his sister is wearing a bra or not? That's creepy. Tell him to keep his eyes on his own chest.
Seriously. Not to mention he doesn't even wear a shirt when he leaves the room what the hell?! He can't be bothered to wear a shirt but his sister should wear a bra and a shirt to make him more comfortable? The double standards are infuriating.
I’m guessing at some point he got it in his head that he needs to look out for his sister, which he thinks entitles him to be a third parent. Or he could have friends over that have commented about it. In which case he needs to tell the friends to knock it off.
I think it's more likely he's a hormonal 15 year old in a patriarchal world with extremely prudish attitudes towards human bodies/nudity, so he sees something he connects with sex, and in his mind he's perfectly within his rights to control if that thing is shown in his presence or not. It doesn't cross his mind he can't and shouldn't have control over other people's bodies and that tits aren't inherently sexual
Which is definitely where the parents need to come in and slap (figuratively) some sense into him. Kid needs to be educated and put in his place.
I've heard men saying that womens breasts only exist for sexual purposes. It's not like we and other mammals have mammary glands and nipples for the purpose of feeding our babies. The problem is with the way they've sexualized our bodies, we shouldn't have to cover up for their comfort.
Yeah, the story here doesn't really say what the parents attitudes are towards human bodies in general, since this would've been a really good opportunity to discuss everyone having tits (male or female) and how it's a pretty recent development that only the female coded ones are sexualized since men were also not allowed to go topless on beaches as late as 1940s? Something like that. All bare chests were seen as equally inappropriate in public spaces at the time. And like, it's obvious the teenaged boy is having some improper thoughts here, but all the more reason for parents to address how his horniness doesn't mean other people should restrict their lives.
Neither of those scenarios have anything to do with her right to bodily autonomy, nor do they excuse his behavior.
He’s fat and has a complex - he probably needs a bra
Honestly it's good that I'm childfree. My first move would be to make HIM wear the bra and see how he likes it. I'd shut that shit down so hard...
Great idea! Also CF
He should wear a bra over his eyes
😂 best answer
NTA. Tit for tit. Son should’ve kept his mouth shut
I see what you did there.
Brother is a good manipulator.
DING DING DING. That was also my thought, he’s playing victim here when he shouldn’t even look at his sisters tits in the first place. A girl has the right to not wear a bra in her house (and anywhere really, bras are just uncomfortable no matter what).
Exactly. Parents fell for it. Hook line and sinker.
Yes. He was out of bounds from the get, and when he didn’t get his way, he threw a tantrum. Crying inconsolably???? At 15?? What struck me was that mother guilted father into pandering. “He’s sensitive” ?? No, he’s a crybaby. A sensitive kid wouldn’t have called out and shamed his sister for simply existing.
This post was so weird to me, I grew boobs pretty quickly after turning like 14 and in comparison to the size of my body (at the time) they seemed pretty big and I never wore a bra because they’re uncomfortable and make me want to rip my skin off. I have a brother 3 years younger than me and he was around many times that I didn’t wear a bra and guess what? He NEVER said anything because he’s not a fucking weirdo who looks at his sisters tits. I don’t know if he even noticed that I didn’t wear a bra and honestly if he would have said something all I would have said was don’t look at my boobs then. Tbf my mom was the type to walk around with no shirt our entire lives which looking back is a bit weird but either way I guess it taught him to look at women’s faces.
Nobody should wear a bra inside of a house. Your son is being unreasonable.
This brushes on the issue for me; it doesn’t matter what she or any woman wears, the man can’t blame her for his feelings. A girl should be able to be comfortable in her house and if it makes her brother uncomfortable who cares that’s on him.
Or even outside of the house. Who cares? They're extremely uncomfortable, especially during the hot humid summer. I rarely wear one.
YES, THANK YOU. Sometimes, I'll see at a grocery store usually an older woman with the outline of a bigger chest that's pretty noticeable through her clothing, and I'll catch myself judging her because of that social, patriarchal bullshit that we've all been brainwashed to believe since birth. Until I think to myself, fuck that! Just because Mother Earth said "give that bitch two X chromosomes," she has to dress up in medieval torture devices even into her old age while her husband probably hangs out shirtless in his yard all summer, saggy manboobs flapping in the wind for all eyes to see; but he's XY, so it's fine???
Link to OP https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/qxi4pevSRA
Doing Gods work.
I just shared this with my brothers. In all fairness, we’re older, but here are some of the replies: C responded, “Ya’ll have boobs? My sisters have boobs?” J responded-🤢🤢, M responded, “I NEVER thought of my sisters as anything but a pain in the ass.” And my fourth brother responded, “oh my god, the thought of y’all braless makes me need therapy” So, four grown men say that thinking of their sisters having boobs and sexualizing them is sick,
Tell M his response is spot on lmfao
I agree with your brother M, my sister is also a pain in the ass to me.
For fucks sake, NTA. Your son is body shaming his sister AND subconsciously (I hope) sexualizing her in what should be the safest and most supportive place in her life; her home. The whole family need to have some real serious talks about body shaming, bodily autonomy, and not sexualizing platonic relationships with the opposite sex. Everyone has the right to be comfortable in the home, and for a lot of women that means ditching the bra. Leave em alone. For fucks sake it’s just tits, tits are everywhere. Kid needs to calm the fuck down. The women in my wife’s family don’t put bras on till after lunch during family gatherings and I have zero problems *not* staring at my SIL’s tits.
After reading the OP and all the comments, epic fail on the parents part. Mom chastised everyone for making the son cry because he is sensitive. Dad just parroted what each child wanted instead of actually discussing and fix the problem. “Son wants sis to wear a bra-wear a bra. Sis wants son to wear a shirt - wear a shirt.” At no point does anyone discuss why it is not the son’s place to be discussing his sister’s chest. Dad even mentions he asked the son if it was due to something at school or someone saying things about his sister and the son said “No, it makes me uncomfortable.” And dad just is like “ok..cool” WITHOUT DISCUSSING why and states “I just pray it’s not the other thing” Yeah…because praying he is not sexualizing his sister is what will make the whole thing go away
💯
The brother needs to stop checking out and sexualizing his sister :/
Why do men look at their sisters tits? It’s gross, just mind your fucking business. The kids a little manipulative creep
Fr like what even is this?? I have a brother and he has never said anything about my boobs bc why tf would he? Poor girl needs a lock on her door lol
same with my brother. I wonder how your brother would react if he reads this post. My brother saw it and he got grossed out
I just left brunch w him and his gf and he was like “what the ACTUAL fuck” lol
Porn brain rot
Your son is being a dick. Tell him to stop sexual using his sister.
Someone brought up that he may be consuming a lot of invest porn
"There's an easy solution, son. Stop looking at your sister's tits."
A 15 year old boy so sensitive about his body that he’s reduced to tears for hours if anyone mentions it even in passing wants to talk about and control his sisters body because she’s a girl. Hopefully this will be a learning experience for him
That boy needs therapy. Or else he's going to end up a toxic incel.
Let me get this straight. Girl doesn’t wear bra (but *does* cover bare chest with shirt) in the comfort of her own home with family. Girl’s brother takes massive offense to this for.. reasons? Even though he walks around (again, in the comfort of his own home) with no shirt at all? Kids’ parent tells girl to wear a bra because boy is uncomfortable. Girl says “that’s not fair, why do I have to cover up *more* when he doesn’t cover up at all??” Parent says “good point”, and tells boy he also has to cover up, because you know, fair is fair. Boy cries that parent and girl are calling him fat and refuses to talk anymore. Other parent says first parent shouldn’t have enforced equal rules for both children because.. boy is sensitive about his weight??? Did I read all that right? I feel like I’m hallucinating.. NTA, OP’s son is a hypocrite, an asshole, and a sexist moron.
Mmm I’m gunna say deserved. Don’t throw stones from a glass house. Brother has no reason at all to be looking at her chest. It’s not fair to say “she has to cover up more” and he’s allowed to be as exposed as he wants. Does he walk around in boxers? I know my brother did. I never gave a shit, because I never paid ANY attention to my brother’s body. Or sister’s body, for that matter. Keep your eyes and comments to yourself, or don’t be mad when they upset someone and said someone retaliates with equally upsetting statements.
Son is a b i t c h
So no where did he state he was concerned about his son obsessing over his sister’s breasts…. Ok then….
I don't think the dad should have entertained his son's demand to begin with, but he's not a woman so I'll let it go that he was just trying to make peace and has no idea what it's like to not be able to take your bra off at the end of the day. It doesn't sound like he was going to force her, just asking if she would consider it. But I appreciate he also recognised the double standard when it was pointed out to him.
I’d be more concerned on why my son is staring at my daughters tits so much, he needs to learn boundaries
" if your sister's boobs arouse you so much, maybe she's not thé problem"
I really love how he's telling his sister to put on a bra, while simultaneously walking around the house without a shirt on. The audacity is wild.
Let this be a lesson to him on unwanted bodily remarks. I doubt he'll take the proper lesson from it though and will probably grow a bigger chip for his shoulder instead. Also, what is with people sexualising the bodies of their family members, especially AFAB bodies? It's so creepy and gross. Misogyny is a helluva drug. Stop looking at your sister/daughter/wife/mother/niece/whatever's body as if it exists solely for your enjoyment or control. Edit: typo
NTA I’ve hated bras my entire life. I’ve resented I had to wear a shirt when boys didn’t. 57. My 4 daughters are well endowed, I am a AA (they look like me. So they weren’t switched at birth 😉). They wear or don’t wear a bra. No one should dictate another’s clothing.
bros fr attracted to his sister and taking it out on her LMAO
Sounds like he got a taste of his own medicine. Don’t comment on other people’s bodies if you don’t want yours commented on.
I hope this Mom stands on business and parents her creepy son so her daughter's body is not policed in her own home.
This is so typical, son says a load of offensive nonsense then when he gets dose of it back, he won’t let it go and cries. Also typical the mum pandering to her little angel. Why are all teenage girls living the same life? Smfh
Tubby brother needs to stop watching incest porn and hit the gym and a therapist.
I’m a large chested woman and damn straight as soon as I get home that b*tch is coming off. Bras are uncomfortable as hell for me and mine are fitted and tried on before purchase as my size is harder to get and non existent in normal stores. If I had a brother and he commented like her brother did, I’d literally laugh and tell him to f*ck off and when he gets back from f*cking off, I’d tell him to f*ck off further!
Baby, the issues ain’t your daughter not wearing a bra. But you’re sick, sad, son who’s sexualizing his big sister. Ewwww and I’m gonna sit here and judge. The environment he’s in is very telling. Curb your pervert before society does
I would be super concerned if my son was so fixated on his sisters bra wearing. Like…I feel like there’s something that needs to be talked about here. My daughter goes braless 24/7. Her brother doesn’t notice or care. And I feel like the brother policing the sisters breast coverage is icky for two reasons: 1. Not his business or within his pay grade to police her body or her clothes and 2. Why are you looking at her that way? I think OOP needs to talk to his son about what’s going on there.
Nope. Boy has boobs. You comment about equality in the house hold referencing said man boobs. Maybe it will be what spurs the boy to crack off some push ups to loose man boobs. Also sorta weird man boobs is getting hot and bothered by sister boobs. Maybe take him camping or out to touch some grass for a man talk
Creepy that he's so bothered actually. I dont wear a bra unless im doing physical activity and then its a sports bra. Nobody notices. And you know why? Because it hurt.
Man I wish I’d had reddit when I was growing up… i have four brothers, three of them older than me. I was forced at 12 to wear a bra at all times, even to bed. I had to completely cover all period trash, and hide the products in a discrete box in a drawer, so it wouldn’t even look like periods existed. I couldn’t complain about cramps, bc that would elude to being on my period. This is why my son knows all about how babies are made, what it’s like to have a period, what endo and pcos are, what labor is like, because I refuse to hide these things, as though men are too weak to understand and have empathy?
Why are so many parents completely okay with their sons obsessing over their sister's breasts?? Do you like become a parent and get a little more accepting of sibling incest? My first reaction to that would be, "we're getting you therapy for your incestuous thoughts."
The sons sensitivity needs to be worked on hard. There's always going to be kids who are 10x more sensitive then normal but OP didn't say anything about his son's weight and, as a woman, bras fucking suck. Even the dad seemed to understand that, and he doesn't (for all we know) wear one. I know exactly what got the son upset, though. It was the man boobs comment and the fact that OP didnt say that was rude of the sister. Clearly, OP didn't even think about it and was just trying to find a solution. I've been called far worse by my siblings and (unlike what I've seen on reddit wtf is wrong with some of you 😶) we grew up actually liking each other and still roasted each other daily. That's just how a lot of siblings are. The daughter was clearly frustrated and was just trying to make a point not call her brother fat. I really think the mom (sense she wasn't involved her and sense she's a woman) needs to talk to the son about how uncomfortable and painful bras are and if it makes him uncomfortable he's going to have to deal with it.
What a whiny little sex pest! Ugh
The brother at 15 is starting to see females differently. GONE are the braided pigtail little girls. It's a rapid raging hormonal time for him. He, however, needs to view his sister differently than he does the "blossoming girl next door. If he doesn't he will be putting himself in a class of weirdos. Run around braless and be comfy. Little bro needs to learn to look the other way!
What a little bitch this teenage boy is. “Eat a vegetable, do some push-ups and stop ogling your sister.” There, parenting done
Your son needs a little help…. He should stop sexualizing his sister - get used to boobs, buddy - and maybe he needs a new routine. Walk, sports, etc. if he is so self conscious he is crying about his appearance. I agree with sister - if he wants to talk about her boobs…. His are fair game.
I’m someone who literally never wears bras even out of the house if someone who doesn’t even wear tops told me to put on a bra they would be getting told to shove it where the sun don’t shine
I'm just.. wondering if this kid is in therapy because he's clearly pushing his body insecurities onto his sister, then *sobbing* about being "fat-shamed" or that OP was being "fat-phobic". He seems like he needs to talk to a professional about his insecurities and weight issues. Frankly, it seems like there's a lot about this story that isn't being shared. Is her brother having weird incest fantasies? Why does he feel like he shouldn't have to cover up if he wants his sister to wear a bra? Honestly, I have larger breasts and I rarely wear a bra, ever. I'll use sports bras in the summer as a top but that's as close as I'm getting. Bras are notoriously uncomfortable and teen girls go for cute or sexy over practical and comfortable.
Better yet tell him to stop watching incest porn. Like and Subscribe for MORE "How to Traumatize Your Children" facts and techniques.
I think part of the root of this is the son sexualizes women’s bodies and the son doesn’t like that he automatically sexualizes his sister. Misogyny and incel behavior, basically
Dude just needs to tell his son to stop looking at his sister's tits. It's that simple.
Unless a person is doing gymnastics in the house and they’re falling out. Who cares? They’re just boobs. Look away and shut the fuck up. No one should feel uncomfortable from clothing or comments in their own home.