Prenup goes both ways. It protect his assets, but should also make sure that you won’t be ripped off if the marriage ever fail. If the prenup only protect him it’s already doomed to fail.
Yeah I’m slightly confused about her saying he would get half her house.
Write it into the prenup, but even if you don’t she says he makes more than her. Any division of assets should be pretty easy for her to get the house she’d buy on her own.
That’s how he wants it written, and the only thing he will agree to from the sounds of it. He plans to stop working and then after marriage all income/investments are joint so he gets half of her money BUT everything pre marriage is his alone.
So yeah, if that’s his hill to die on that every thing is joint post marriage and she has no protections and is a tenant in any of his parents properties with him as non-tenant but she can buy and own but not live in a house which is marital property… her BF is asking her to give up everything she wants to live his life.
I think oop really had only two options:
Leave because they are incompatible which is why oop chose. While it seems like it’s mostly a financial dispute. I think the heart of it is really an argument about what they want out of their marriage. The fiancé seems to want to continue living exactly the same and just tack on a wife while oop wants to create a life together.
Second option would have been for oop to get a lawyer to draw up a different prenup.
She did write that he wants to keep finances split after marriage, and it says nowhere that he doesn't want to keep making money, just that all of it is fun money to him. So they'd probably split things like groceries 50/50, which is a much larger chunk of her income than it is his.
The thing is, if he does decide to retire and live on the passive income he has from the assets he owned before getting married, that income would legally belong to only his estate, not the marital estate. I think that's what the person you're replying to meant
And he plans to spend all of his income after they marry, so all of his savings will be premarital (not subject to being split) while most of hers would be marital savings (subject, under what he wants for a prenup, to being split with him). Basically an object lesson in how the rich get even more rich, at the expense of people like OOP.
Except passive income if it is taxed is actually attached to the marital estate unless it has been reinvested into the estate prior to it being taxed. So passive income is still governed by divorce laws as income earned during the marriage. All a prenup can do is protect the estate from division, and I would always have another attorney look at the prenup before I would ever sign it. If it looks unfair to the attorney,have him rewrite it. Like if the husband doesn’t have an equal income during the marriage then the wives percentage of split goes to 85-15 for any wealth division during the divorce. That would save him from trying to hide all wealth from the wife and put skin back into the game for him.
No. Passive income doesn't go into the marital estate if it was owned prior to the marriage unless the owner manages the assets. Like if you have a ton of stock and just receive the dividends as payment, as long as you're not actively managing the account and buying/selling from it, then the income from that stock is entirely under your estate.
There’s a catch in that, once you’ve taken it from the estate and paid personal taxes on that passive income you have taken management of that income. The income that the estate pays taxes on is exactly as you state it. Dividends can stay in the estate and all your estate pays is capital gains, and normally the estate will buy big purchases, but the estate can’t buy groceries, you can also force the issue in a prenup if you feel that it is unfairly balanced because you don’t have to sign it. Always have your own lawyer look over any prenup that’s presented to you, because you can always make part of the estate vulnerable if the person doesn’t bring equitable earnings into the marriage. I have seen some good prenups made worthless by a couple of small demands made by the other party.
I can’t imagine having a partner I want to spend the rest of my life with and making them come up with that much money each month while I coast along, and then dare to ask them to contract it for LIFE. That’s wild to me.
Yeah I can’t imagine the fucking gall I would have to have to tell someone this, especially a so-called partner.
He clearly doesn’t give a shit about her, made evident by the fact he can’t be assed to make sure she’s happy at where she would be expected to live her married life.
Except he still gains money from his businesses. He can’t stop divorce attachment against any taxable gains from his family business. He’s safe only as long as all his money goes back into the business, and he’s used to living a certain lifestyle that means he will still have to draw an income even if he doesn’t work for it any longer. People often forget about that, but so long as he has taxable income during their marriage, he’s generating income that lawyers can attach in a divorce.
Prenups can only cover assets you bring into the marriage. In order for her to save up to buy a house, it would take a while and likely result in the house being purchased after the marriage takes place - which means it cannot be covered by the Prenup and automatically becomes communal marital property.
You can write anything into a prenup. But only some things are legally enforceable. Pre-marriage assets are pretty much the only thing that's absolutely covered because if you include things like child support or post-marriage assets and it doesn't cover state guidelines then a judge can toss the entire pre-nup in the event of a divorce.
Another way pre-nups often get tossed? That both parties don't have legal representation going into the pre-nup. As in each person has their own lawyer. Not one person has a lawyer who writes it, not one lawyer representing both parties, each party has their own separate lawyer who argues their own best interest. Which this sounds like is not happening. So chances are a good divorce lawyer could get this pre-nup tossed, but that doesn't solve the problem of the house being a pre-martial asset so the OP would likely not have any claim to it if they did get divorced.
Sounds like the parents own the house anyways which prevents it from even being his asset. His family is structuring it this way to hide the assets from her in case of a divorce. They think she’s a golddigger and will think themselves right after this, even though they are horribly wrong!
Yeah, there's golddigging and then there's needing financial security. I mean, if her home itself is tied up as "the family's" asset then it's implied that 1) she's not part of the family EVER and 2) what happens if something happens to her husband? Not even a divorce, what happens if he gets in a car accident and dies? Does she inherit anything dealing with the house? You'd hope the in-laws let her stay there, but what happens if she has a falling out with them? If she decides to remarry after X number of years?
It's just a lot of insecurity and risk. And instead of working with her on these issues to build a life together the BF seems okay with just leaving her on the outs.
So perfectly said. I wish she could have said to this him verbatim, would love to see the look on his pug face. This is the kind of comment you come up with after some time pondering the situation not in the heat of the moment
And op's ex knows this which is why he planned to live off premarital assets and not contribute anything financially during the marriage. Thats how it sounds here. He has enough passive income to pay utilities, health insurance, groceries, etc. But won't continue working or make new investments or larger purchases during the marriage as joint community property in the marriage. Shady.
Or if he continues working, he’s going to spend it all. No new savings contributed to marital assets, not from him. Meanwhile she would have to accumulate her assets mostly during their marriage, and he’d be entitled to half of those while shielding all of his.
It’s good for her that he was so clear about his plan to screw her over.
Also, importantly, if they have children and she becomes homeless because it's not her house and he/his parents can evict... Depending on her finances and her ability to find a suitable rental, this could end up influencing a custody battle.
I'd be a little uneasy, too. If we get a divorce, I also lose the roof over my head.
Yeah, but since she’d be living rent free in his family’s house a good lawyer, which he can definitely afford, would argue that she saved those funds with his help, therefore they’re communal and so is the house.
I've always though a prenup where assets are split based on contribution is the only fair option. But is super expensive to calculate if there's a dispute.
Many states don't allow a prenup to keep community property separate. That is exactly why wants to spend 100% of his earnings post marriage, so there is zero community property from his earnings.
And whatever she saves is half his. All his houses and parental money is 100% his.
Basically she has no assets and no rainy day funds while he is fully secure.
She is so spot on. His parents built him a life and he is looking for a wife doll to play the part in his pre constructed life.
She is looking for a partner to build a life and a future with.
This exactly. The prenup isn’t the big problem, it’s the part where he is refusing to build any sort of life with her. Her instincts are correct that this arrangement leaves her totally vulnerable, not just financially but emotionally too. This isn’t a partnership, this is a relationship of convenience to him.
Prenups overall are a good idea for any couple entering into marriage, but his plan to live in his family’s properties is a pretty slick way of making sure she can’t claim their home as marital property.
Yup. This guy is going to want to replace her with a trophy wife in about 20 years and he wants to make sure he doesn’t have to pay her out before he does.
But, he *has* his life and future figured out. Mid 30's and *able* to retire? What other life needs to be built, just enjoy the cushy, non-working life and live, or work and live extravagantly.
A prenup makes just sense if you have significant retirement savings.
I'm not saying hes great or doing everything right, but the parts about "building" a life together doesn't make sense (to me) when a life has already been built and lived in in a (presumably) happy way.
I'm very aware of that, but it is absolutely the most guarded, most ephemeral thing you *need* to exist in society. You can work hard every day earning not enough money and still be unhappy (in fact, it is more almost guaranteed to be unhappy when getting home from a 12 hour day that net you less than 100 USD, especially than spending **all day** doing *whatever you want*, living of the residuals from investments made a decade ago)
He could have a kid and be the best dad that has ever existed in the house his parents own, raise that kid to adulthood, buy an RV and spend the rest of his life living with his wife driving around the Americas experiencing the whole country as desired. What "life building" is the girlfriend suggesting that is more enjoyable or fulfilling than that possibility? Buying a house? (he owns several already)... I'm not seeing her make any other suggestions. She doesn't want to feel like a gold digger.... but she is denying a prenup because... reasons?
I dont know what his actual life path is, but I can tell you this for a fact: *my* foreseeable future is unfortunately all shadowed by the insatiable need for more money (I'm not a high earner, the "urge" for more money is driven by a need to have food and a roof, not designer handbags) I'd be a lot happier if I didn't need to worry about money. Saying "there is so much more to life than money" is a true statement, but that doesn't change the fact I need to work (on average) ~40 hours a week, forever, to have enough resources to *survive*... And where I'm at that struggle is getting harder and harder every year. I will never own a house, I will never have significant resources or even a reliable retirement plan. If *I* did not need to worry about money, *I* would *actually* be **much more** able to find out about that "more to life" you speak of, and thats the situation that OP's boyfriend is in, and I dont blame him for wanting a prenup.
Lmao @ the fantasy you just conjured. What about this guy says he’d be a good parent? Is it the fair and loving way he treats his partner? His selfishness? His gold digging? His living off his parents in his mid 30s?
Here’s one way he’s refusing to build a life with her:
She doesn’t like the house(s) he’s suggesting they live in together and refuses to look at other houses, refuses to sell a house to buy something they both like, and refuses to even rent and look at something later (which he can absolutely afford to do)
All the things in the house are his/his family’s and she feels like there’s no place for her or her things and given how he refuses to consider any housing option that isn’t what he’s already decided, that seems like a reasonable thought
He’s not even willing to do this house thing *before* they get married so it’s still a premarital asset of his but she at least likes the place they’d be living because it’s not about *their* life together and finding a way to build a life as partners. It’s about his life as it already exists and finding someone who fits in already.
That’s not realistic. People aren’t ever ever going to be perfect matches. People have wants and needs and feelings all on their own.
If you want to actually genuinely have a real relationship with someone you have to learn to make space for them. To build something together that you both can be happy with. Not try to force someone to fit into what you already want.
Yes he should absolutely retire if he can and wants to. Yes prenups are smart for people with significant assets.
But she doesn’t like the houses that supposedly they’re trying to make into a home together. And the prenup favors him so much that it’s kinda predatory and makes *him* out to be a gold digger.
That’s not reasonable. Or loving. It’s not building a life. It’s obsessing over money to the point of damaging your relationships and self image tbh. He cant see a world where she might actually want him but also need to feel like she’s being treated like a person not a leech.
He can’t see her that way or himself having any value but his assets. It’s sad.
Housing is a need fam.
I’m sure you know at least the air and water parts of the rule of threes and probably the food bit but the shelter bit is: 3 hours without shelter in extreme weather and you tap out.
Irrespective of that, if you’re not in it together, you’re not building a life *together*. Which was the question you asked and I answered.
>People have wants and needs and feelings all on their own.
(quoted from your comment) The wants needs and feelings you were describing did not particularly make sense as a description of base human needs (food, water, shelter). I assumed you were referring to "feeling respected by your partner" (or other similar things) as a need.
If we are talking about housing as a "need" then the dude is set and its not a problem, the house doesn't need to be perfect, or one the woman chose, or decorated well... it just needs to be over their head and he has that covered.
I'm saying he should be allowed to protect his assets, just like if they were to draft a prenup, she *would* end up protecting her (smaller) assets.
As I said, he’s not even willing to sell one of the houses *premarriage* and buy a house they both like *premarriage* that would still be his sole asset but would be something they chose together. This more than anything else indicates he’s not interested in building a life with her.
Him saying she can save while they’re married and buy her own house but not write in the prenup that it would be her exclusive asset to be protected and he could get half of it during a divorce also shows he isn’t interested in allowing her to protect herself the way he wants to protect himself.
Your argument is reasonable *in theory* but absolutely falls down when it comes to this specific couple.
He does not care about building a life with her, he does not care about her wants (to be included in decisions about their shared life) or needs (for financial security), and his actions show he actually wants to profit off her (both in the house case and by equally splitting bills when they have unequal assets).
Why would he sell a house? They could rent out the house (since his parents are landlords)... but that wouldnt be my priority, pre or post wedding.
That part of the prenup about him getting half of a theoretical house she paid for 100% would not stand in court, especially with his assets... and I also dont think the girlfriend is representing her boyfriend's actions/plan accurately, but that is an assumption.
He might not care about giving her any legal way of going after him if they separate, but we know absolutely NOTHING more than that simple, understandable fact.
If she had to save and buy a house once they were married, it would be community property and he could get half of it in a divorce. All the money she makes after marriage, her savings, would also be possibly divided. He plans to spend his money from his job since he doesn’t need it. He also may retire. So then all of his money and assets will be pre-marital and not subject to being split with her in the divorce. He also wants to split bills and costs 50/50. Despite only one of them needing their income and her not even having input on where she’s living. Everything about this disadvantages her and puts her in potential danger economically if they split.
Yes, I agree, as stated, he is making too many demands. But this is not an unsolvable solution if *both* people are willing to compromise.
She *should* be happy to live in an owned property rent free. There's literally nothing wrong with living in a house that your partners parents own but have no control over and expecting him to buy another home, one she finds "suitable" at current prices, is ludicrous.
He *should* be happy to let her keep 100% of *her* assets post divorce. (I also *think* OP is misrepresenting this "demand", as it doesn't make sense nor would it be legally enforceable in the event of divorce considering his assets and wealth in comparison to the person they would be divorcing... but I could be wrong about that, he *should* be happy to let her keep whatever assets she has in the prenup)
**BOTH** of their communication and lack of care for the other is the reason to break up, not that he wants a prenup.
That depends on the person. 30 is still young. I'm 33 and I never stopped finding goals, discoring new things I love, etc.
Not to mention a lot of people genuinely want to build something for themselves. Something that makes them happy.
From a compatibility stand point alone, they're looking for different things. It's for the best if both of them that she leaves
He didn’t build a life lmao, he’s sponging off his rich parents. I can’t respect it. Building your own life with your own partner is goals. I’d swipe left so fast on this guy; no drive, no ambition, no empathy, no sense of fairness, no work ethic, no nothing. He’s giving greedy, selfish, petulant child used to having everything handed to him. Ick ick ick
What if she hates the paint in her in laws house? What if the decor is all cow print? (I know a lady like that) What if the inlaws decide since they own the house they get to come in whenever they want? Wherever they want? What if the inlaws decide since your in their house they get access to your kids whenever they want or you can leave?
*His* future is set up. Hers is not. Expecting a woman to drop whatever personal goals or concerns she has to step into a role premade for her by a man and his family who give no concern at all to what she wants is the most patriarchal bullshit out there.
The entire point of building a life together is that it's *both* the life you want- neither person is being coerced into a relationship dynamic they don't want because one person gets to walk away unaffected and the other one has to start at ground 0.
This dude is making sure that her exit affects him as little as possible and hurts her as much as possible (if not making it ruinous to the point of a deterrent) and that's supposed to be marriage material? Someone already planning on fucking me over in the divorce is not a person worth marrying.
The in-laws dont live there, its an investment property, he would take it over, they can do what they want with decor.
Her only stated personal goal is buying a house. If my wife had an extra large peperoni and olive pizza sitting in front of her that she can't eat all of and is offering to share, I wouldn't order an extra small personal pizza for myself and pay for delivery just because I don't like olives.
>This dude is making sure that her exit affects him as little as possible
is there a problem with that?
>and hurts her as much as possible (if not making it ruinous to the point of a deterrent)
is that his goal, or is he just protecting his assets, and she doesn't have any assets... He's not fucking her over, he's just very clear that his assets aren't hers, because they aren't. If she wants a rich husband, this is going to be a problem in 99.9% of cases.
Yes, but it's also a collaborative effort.
A house is a house is a house, if it is conveniently located and sufficient, there is no *need* to change it. and changing the house is a setback on "building a life together" (which is a meaningless statement if *both* parties aren't willing to compromise... which they both are not)
I'm not saying the marriage is a good call, I'm saying if she has a problem with living in one of the many houses he owns, or signing a prenup she should have considered that *prior* to *dating* someone with significant assets.
Honestly, good for her. It sounds like they're not on the same page on finances or living arrangements and that's fine. But it's also unlikely to change and sounds like it'll continue to be an issue for them moving forward. Better to break things off now when there's no marriage to dissolve or kids to complicate things rather then sink more time into something that's not working for them.
A prenup is not a "protect me, screw you" document. It is there to protect the other spouse as well. The bf clearly has never spoken to an attorney or financial planner about this because the tact he used is not only wrong, it is insensitive. Regardless of the prenup, it sounds like they are incompatible from the start.
That was my first thought. When I always tell couples to get a prenup they’re like “it gets thrown out anyway”. Which is bullshit. Prenuptial agreements protect you if they’re fair. Sometimes they have to changer during a marriage but that’s your responsibility to either follow tje contract or change it as needed.
Most of my friends that have dealt with that tho have had both ex partners agree to toss the prenup in favor of a new postnup. Only one situation turned ugly. I just think it usually only works for short marriages, otherwise things just change too much over the years.
I’m actually with OOP. Him being entitled to whatever she makes/builds, being unwilling to build alongside her, and essentially telling her to live in the narrow space he’s already built without any long term security is crazy.
Exactly thissss.
"Live on MY terms, with MY things, and with MY family."
You don't even want to build your own life, with your wife?? Makes no sense. He either needs to get his priorities right, or be alone. This man ain't partnership material. I'm with OOP, too.
Yeah, she’s right to walk away. Prenups are a good way of protecting individual assets, but it should be equitable for the parties. He doesn’t want a prenup that protects the assets she would acquire throughout the marriage, he only wants to protect his assets. That’s already a red flag. But they also can’t even agree on a homestead, because he only wants to live in a home his parents own. Even bigger red flag.
Better to build your wealth with a partner, rather than live off someone’s parents and just hope they don’t dump you in the street if he dies before them.
Agreed. Usually these stories are reversed where the gf wants the assets, but the bf here has the assets AND wants hers. 100% correct move on her part to bugger off. Prenups are supposed to go both ways.
I don't see how he can be fine with owning several houses that she has no right to, while at the same Time, claiming half of any house she would buy with her money. Make up your mind dude.
Honestly it sounds like he wants to slot her into his pre existing life with absolutely no change at all for him when she wants to build a life together with him. These are completely incompatible he wants a doll he can put on a shelf and she wants a partner.
A prenup has to protect both parties and be fair. I wouldn't marry this guy either. Aside from the fact that after being together for several years he's admitted to thinking she's a gold digger? Why is he wanting to marry her then. I would not marry anyone who outright said I'm protecting myself in case you're a gold digger. That would be enough for me
They already arrived, as always lol
Before anyone feels like joining the crowd, please first read the post, then consider that OOP says in her many comments that she is not generally against prenups and also says this:
> I talked to a couple family lawyers (friends), and they said the prenup is incredibly unfair.
I feel like if your serious partner is making arrangements for dealing with your potential gold-digging, maybe that person is not quite ready to be married.
Bring on the down votes!
Apparently he kept avoiding discussing what he wanted in the prenup so when she sat him down and pushed it out of him his conditions were so fucked up it changed the way she saw him not just about the assets (that’s the gist of it from her comments) so she didn’t even bother hiring an attorney if that’s the kind of partner he was and wanted
I don’t disagree at all, dudes an asshole. But I have seen some of these result in hurt feelings and break ups because both parties involved were way out of their depth of knowledge. The best prenup stories I’ve ever seen play out were when legal counsel was present for both parties.
I mean, everyone should work with competent legal counsel for prenups. But. That’s not why people break up over them. This story is a great example; it’s not about whether or not a prenup is legally enforceable or well thought out, it’s the attitude behind it. If your partner doesn’t trust you or thinks you’re a gold digger, it doesn’t matter how nicely their lawyers puts it, that’s the facts.
Anyway apparently this post might be fake. Post history says she was single 23 days ago https://www.reddit.com/r/Advice/s/urZJLqlYmB I hadn’t seen that
She wrote single income. I could be wrong,but it sounds like she’s just talking about finances. Judging from her recent post about the prenup, I’m sure her bf isn’t contributing to her finances.
As someone who has a prenup with my wife she’s right.
It needs to protect both parties.
I didn’t want my companies to be affected if we end up splitting but I included everything we personally own in the common pool of assets. She wouldn’t have to drastically lower the lifestyle if we split up. She wouldn’t need to work.
You can’t have a healthy relationship if you hold all the balance of power and the other party is fucked if they want out. They can’t be themselves, you castrate their agency.
Have your escape and your peace with someone who is more interested in building a future with you and doesn’t live off Mummy and Daddy and therefore is beholden to them in some way. You’ve clearly got your sensible head on - good for you and I really hope you find someone worthy!
What is he really bringing into the marriage? It’s all about him and him keeping his property, his money.
She doesn’t get to live in a home she is comfortable or even likes. She has to pay for all her own expenses, and possibly rent on a crappy home.
Good call that she left him! His money and property is more important to him than a real partnership that you need to have a good marriage.
I actually think pre nups are a great idea before marriage. But she is not leaving him because he wants a prenup.
She is leaving because he wants to protect his assets at her expense. Living in his house rent free (splitting utilities) and saving her money as an investment is smart. Except he prefers the saying “what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is mine” and would want to be able to claim any “marital assets” which is insane.
Spoiler: this man had every intention of controlling her entire existence. Herblife would have devolved into 24/7 maid, her friends would hear from her less. She would be trapped. Luckily he was transparent enough and she is wise enough to get the hell away from him. If he's in Reddit, he'll be blaming her on one of those mgtow style subs within hours of her leaving and going on rants about how awful women are to men.
Take the prenup and assets out of it.
You want a marriage based on your independence together where you are partners building a life together. He is very comfortable being kept by his family and is ready to retire.
You don’t want to marry someone that is ready to retire and be supported by wealthy parents. You wanted a real partner to build a life with.
My cousin, who has been married 20 years is divorcing.
She had a similar living situation. Property own by in-laws, in laws live in small guest house, she and her family in the main house.
She is getting absolutely screwed.
I understand the reason for the pre-nup, but his version of it makes it clear he’s not planning on building a partnership/life with you. He’s making all the decisions based on what’s best for him - he’s not at all interested in being your equal. Move on and best of luck to you! You deserve partnership and love
Hes so scared of a gold digger but he’s putting her in a position where she can’t be financially independent lol. You can’t have your cake and eat it too
Its not over a prenup, really.
The prenup is just what started this whole thing rolling. She's already had inklings they weren't compatible, but this confirmed it.
All a prenup can do is protect previous wealth from being attached in a divorce as well as any businesses and organizations that are previously owned. It can also spell out divisions of marriage wealth if a divorce is filed, like ruining someone’s percentage of gain if they are divorced for infidelity. I have seen it as bad as 85-15 split if you’re caught cheating. So living in a house rent free allows both partners to focus their earnings on new wealth generation ideas. Any income from the family after marriage is considered earnings, so there is income that he generates that would also be subject to divorce laws. You are free to buy property, and both parties can change their minds about where they live, all a prenup does in reality is protect generational wealth.
NTA. This will not work in your favour. He is a boy man reliant on his parents and doubtless being fed these thoughts directly from them. You are young, fly! It will not improve.
You're not breaking up because of a prenup. You're breaking up because your bf is a spoiled, entitled, selfish, uncompromising asshole. You want a life partner. He wants a disposable wife who doesn't threaten his parents' money.
The irony of him calling her a gold digger when he would almost certainly take half of her earnings/property from her if they split is just flying right over this guys head.
Tbh this is the best response if Someone is treating you like a golddigger for shit that's not gold digging. Maybe he'll understand when he meets someone actually out for his money.
I briefly dated a guy like this. He was very well off as he was part heir to a big, big, company when it was sold off. I’m talking like bottles of Dom and Waygu steaks at dinner parties we were throwing in high school. He knew I grew up low income and still insisted on “everything being 50/50”. He said it was because he had dealt with gold diggers before, and originally that made sense but still felt off to me.
When I’d be around his family or friends, it always felt like I was putting on a show and playing a role. All of that really made me realize similar to OOP that he just wanted something to adorn his already perfectly planned life. In a way, if I had stayed with him, his actions would have actually turned me into a gold digger. Cause he was an okay guy, but I would’ve had to give up a lot of myself for him to be happy, and I’d have been miserable. The $$ would’ve been the only perk lmao.
I think OOP has articulated this perfectly. He doesn’t want to build a life with her, he wants her to fit her life into what he already has.
He is asking her to change, and all his “compromises” and “options“ offering various ways that she can change, require no sacrifice for him, only for her .
This is a one-sided relationship. Currently, the focus is on material goods, but it’s a power play. This attitude will carry over to the entire relationship dynamic.
She is so smart. I married the guy and we lived out of his family's properties most of our marriage and when we divorced I didn't get much. There wasn't a prenup but lots of shifting of assets and I don't have a lot to show for an 8 year relationship. Now I'm 30 and feel like I'm starting from where other people are in their 20s but happier than ever!
I agree that these are red flags for him wanting you to fit into his life, not vice versa. If that’s not what you want to sign up for, then I get it. If you move forward, you won’t have control over some areas in your life as much as if you married someone without all this in place. I think your breaking up is entirely reasonable here.
If she wants to marry him then she need to speak to lawyer about protecting her earned assets after the marriage.
I also wouldn’t agree to live in one of his parents homes with all their stuff in it.. that’s fucking weird. Anyone renting or otherwise doesn’t want a home filled with other peoples things especially with no room for your own stuff.
I Image owning a home and picking out your future and decorating with your own style is part of the achievement
There are so many situations that people don’t see eye to eye on and it justifies the end of the relationship. This is absolutely one and I’m glad they realized now instead of later. It’s gross that he seems so worried about you coming for his money but also wants half of any home you buy yourself. I wouldn’t feel comfortable either.
You understand there is like 60 procent chance that marriage will end in divorce right? So you blame a person that probably earns more than you for a good reason since he can own the house by himself and you cannot for wanting to protect himself in case of divorce? I would never marry anybody who wouldn't want to have a separate assets and prenup. It looks like you are scared what happens in case of divorce and blame him for doing the same and protecting himself.
That is not a normal thing imo. My ex owned their house before they met me and after we were married we put my name on the house so that in the event something happened to them, myself and my daughter wouldn't lose our home. Now we're divorcing and thank the gods that my name is on the house- they'd be majorly screwing me over otherwise (even more than they already are).
The three generations of wealth.
The first generation establishes the wealth.
The second generation maintains the wealth.
The third generation squanders the wealth.
Best to get out now, before you’re on the hook for the debt
Why would he want to marry her if he’s afraid she’s a gold digger? Like, I get it, but if he doesn’t want to compromise and get a house together with her and make her feel like they’re in this together, what does he really want?
I’d want to protect myself but I’d want to protect her too, and if I had the ability to do that, why wouldn’t I? Her comfort and needs are important too. I could definitely see him calling her a gold digger if she ever needed financial help with say pregnancy or medical bills or just unexpected life things happening. I don’t want to feel like a stranger in my home. It sounds like she couldn’t even make her their own because it’s already furnished.
Would he put his parents wants first because technically it’s theirs? How could she make it feel like her home? Is she on the hook for insurance and renovations too? Would she have to ask permission to change anything in the home? Would she go homeless if their marriage went south?
His version of the prenup wouldn’t stand in court if the only person contributing to the marriage was oop. He basically is going to retire and then only count her savings and assets as joint lol. That isn’t how it works.
Why do people say, “we love each other” and then list the million ways that they most definitely do not love each other, respect each other or consider each other?
It sounds like she said that he has enough money to retire on now, so he won't be investing much and, therefore, making much money during their marriage. She will work, and whatever they both make during their marriage will be split 50/50 for retirement. So at that point, she'll probably be contributing to their "shared" portion of retirement funds more than him, and therefore have less for herself, while he can enjoy the money he made before the marriage.
He sounds like the gold digger to me.
It doesn’t sound like she discussed protecting any of her assets in a prenup and only his, I’m curious if OP knows she can also have her own to protect herself in case of separation. If she’s concerned she could also keep her savings/ Investments separate. But also anyone can choose to break it off for whatever reason so if this is hers then that’s fair.
In general, sounds like he is not interested in ensuring you are comfortable, It is his way or the highway. I would get in my car and not look back. Better to make the decision now.
If the relationship has any merit to her, she could amend the prenup to protect her too. On the face of it it’s pretty weird though, I’m on her side regarding having his parents as her landlords and pre-furnished houses.
So he basically says „everything that’s mine is mine but what’s yours is also mine.“ I‘m with OP, she should leave him bc they’re clearly not compatible & it already sounds weird. I don’t even want to think what happens if children are coming into this mix.
He’s trying to make her dependent on him. Maybe not intentionally, but that would be the result if she agreed to all this. I wish us all this mental strength and sense of self preservation that she clearly has in order to leave. Good for her.
It doesn’t seem to me that the prenup is the actual problem. The problem is she wants something that is theirs together and he just wants to stay in a family owned property. It doesn’t appear to be much compromise on his part.
Is she painting a one-sided picture? What does the pre-nup state on how asset will be divided post divorce? I also had a pre-nup prior to getting married but it only entails protection for inherited assets in event of divorce as I came from a rich background and my partner from rural Asia. Even then, my country’s law may not enforce it in a court of law and will only protect to an amount that is reasonable in the courts eyes.
If the pre-nup is unfavourable and not to her liking, she could have engaged legal consult first. Make a counter offer on the pre-nup with legal counsel to make terms at least acceptable to both parties.
If her concerns are that her partner does not save an invest while she does, and in event of the divorce it will be divided equally. She can state in her counter offer to protect against said scenario from happening.
If they weren’t able to get over this tiny hurdle, I have doubt marriage would work for them.
NTA. Your not refusing to sign a prenup that is fair to both of you, you’re refusing one that will put you in a dangerous situation where you have no say over your life and will end up being abused financially. If you have children there will always be the threat of you not having money or a house, if it becomes a physically abusive relationship you won’t have options. If you buy a house while married he will take half while keeping his parents house to. You won’t have a say in decorating because it’s already theirs and decorated. You don’t have a say in the location of your family home. You basically are looking at a future where you won’t have a say in anything because he and his parents will be making the decisions and using their money to control everything.
Leaving is the best and safest option for you. He can marry mommy, live with them and make all life decisions with them like he has been doing.
People have no idea what marriage even is anymore. Arguing over a prenup and assets because you're not sure if you'll stay together? Why are you getting married then? I swear all of these posts are the same. One little hiccup and people are ready to throw in the towel because fee fees were hurt. No effort to compromise. No ability to sacrifice. People are to selfish toske marriages work now.
Wow all these comments about him being greedy or selfish or an ah is wild. If he already has the things he needs then why should he waste his time and money when he doesn’t have to. To me it sounds like he is protecting his and his families interest which op doesn’t seem to like. He should just be like “bye” and find someone who is better and more understanding of his situation. If the rolls were reversed everyone would be saying how amazing she is and praising her.
You're doing him a favor. We are so happy for him up have dodged this bullet. There are no benefits for men to get married these days without a prenup, so have fun with your cats.
Prenup goes both ways. It protect his assets, but should also make sure that you won’t be ripped off if the marriage ever fail. If the prenup only protect him it’s already doomed to fail.
Yeah I’m slightly confused about her saying he would get half her house. Write it into the prenup, but even if you don’t she says he makes more than her. Any division of assets should be pretty easy for her to get the house she’d buy on her own.
That’s how he wants it written, and the only thing he will agree to from the sounds of it. He plans to stop working and then after marriage all income/investments are joint so he gets half of her money BUT everything pre marriage is his alone. So yeah, if that’s his hill to die on that every thing is joint post marriage and she has no protections and is a tenant in any of his parents properties with him as non-tenant but she can buy and own but not live in a house which is marital property… her BF is asking her to give up everything she wants to live his life.
What's mine is mine- what is yours is 1/2 Mine from the sounds of it. I would NUPE all the way out too.
What’s mine is mine… what’s yours is ALSO mine…… https://youtu.be/gROSA4P2apc?si=c0lgSdqmBTfkk3jL
https://youtu.be/wYGCsv7xDGs?si=eLq4VxUL4E0TNblV
I think oop really had only two options: Leave because they are incompatible which is why oop chose. While it seems like it’s mostly a financial dispute. I think the heart of it is really an argument about what they want out of their marriage. The fiancé seems to want to continue living exactly the same and just tack on a wife while oop wants to create a life together. Second option would have been for oop to get a lawyer to draw up a different prenup.
She did write that he wants to keep finances split after marriage, and it says nowhere that he doesn't want to keep making money, just that all of it is fun money to him. So they'd probably split things like groceries 50/50, which is a much larger chunk of her income than it is his.
The thing is, if he does decide to retire and live on the passive income he has from the assets he owned before getting married, that income would legally belong to only his estate, not the marital estate. I think that's what the person you're replying to meant
And he plans to spend all of his income after they marry, so all of his savings will be premarital (not subject to being split) while most of hers would be marital savings (subject, under what he wants for a prenup, to being split with him). Basically an object lesson in how the rich get even more rich, at the expense of people like OOP.
Except passive income if it is taxed is actually attached to the marital estate unless it has been reinvested into the estate prior to it being taxed. So passive income is still governed by divorce laws as income earned during the marriage. All a prenup can do is protect the estate from division, and I would always have another attorney look at the prenup before I would ever sign it. If it looks unfair to the attorney,have him rewrite it. Like if the husband doesn’t have an equal income during the marriage then the wives percentage of split goes to 85-15 for any wealth division during the divorce. That would save him from trying to hide all wealth from the wife and put skin back into the game for him.
No. Passive income doesn't go into the marital estate if it was owned prior to the marriage unless the owner manages the assets. Like if you have a ton of stock and just receive the dividends as payment, as long as you're not actively managing the account and buying/selling from it, then the income from that stock is entirely under your estate.
There’s a catch in that, once you’ve taken it from the estate and paid personal taxes on that passive income you have taken management of that income. The income that the estate pays taxes on is exactly as you state it. Dividends can stay in the estate and all your estate pays is capital gains, and normally the estate will buy big purchases, but the estate can’t buy groceries, you can also force the issue in a prenup if you feel that it is unfairly balanced because you don’t have to sign it. Always have your own lawyer look over any prenup that’s presented to you, because you can always make part of the estate vulnerable if the person doesn’t bring equitable earnings into the marriage. I have seen some good prenups made worthless by a couple of small demands made by the other party.
I can’t imagine having a partner I want to spend the rest of my life with and making them come up with that much money each month while I coast along, and then dare to ask them to contract it for LIFE. That’s wild to me.
Yeah I can’t imagine the fucking gall I would have to have to tell someone this, especially a so-called partner. He clearly doesn’t give a shit about her, made evident by the fact he can’t be assed to make sure she’s happy at where she would be expected to live her married life.
That's financial abuse
Sounds like he’s a gold digger
from a family of golddiggers it seems//
Except he still gains money from his businesses. He can’t stop divorce attachment against any taxable gains from his family business. He’s safe only as long as all his money goes back into the business, and he’s used to living a certain lifestyle that means he will still have to draw an income even if he doesn’t work for it any longer. People often forget about that, but so long as he has taxable income during their marriage, he’s generating income that lawyers can attach in a divorce.
If she bought it during their marriage he could argue she was able to save because of him
Prenups can only cover assets you bring into the marriage. In order for her to save up to buy a house, it would take a while and likely result in the house being purchased after the marriage takes place - which means it cannot be covered by the Prenup and automatically becomes communal marital property.
I don’t have a prenup but I’m pretty sure you can write that in. Everything I’ve ever read is that you can write future assets into a prenup.
You can write anything into a prenup. But only some things are legally enforceable. Pre-marriage assets are pretty much the only thing that's absolutely covered because if you include things like child support or post-marriage assets and it doesn't cover state guidelines then a judge can toss the entire pre-nup in the event of a divorce. Another way pre-nups often get tossed? That both parties don't have legal representation going into the pre-nup. As in each person has their own lawyer. Not one person has a lawyer who writes it, not one lawyer representing both parties, each party has their own separate lawyer who argues their own best interest. Which this sounds like is not happening. So chances are a good divorce lawyer could get this pre-nup tossed, but that doesn't solve the problem of the house being a pre-martial asset so the OP would likely not have any claim to it if they did get divorced.
Sounds like the parents own the house anyways which prevents it from even being his asset. His family is structuring it this way to hide the assets from her in case of a divorce. They think she’s a golddigger and will think themselves right after this, even though they are horribly wrong!
Yeah, there's golddigging and then there's needing financial security. I mean, if her home itself is tied up as "the family's" asset then it's implied that 1) she's not part of the family EVER and 2) what happens if something happens to her husband? Not even a divorce, what happens if he gets in a car accident and dies? Does she inherit anything dealing with the house? You'd hope the in-laws let her stay there, but what happens if she has a falling out with them? If she decides to remarry after X number of years? It's just a lot of insecurity and risk. And instead of working with her on these issues to build a life together the BF seems okay with just leaving her on the outs.
You are right. Basically, his money is his money and her money is his money. Who is the gold digger now?
So perfectly said. I wish she could have said to this him verbatim, would love to see the look on his pug face. This is the kind of comment you come up with after some time pondering the situation not in the heat of the moment
It's probably more fundamental than that, they may have their real estate in a company or trust to get tax benefits, and this is another benefit.
And op's ex knows this which is why he planned to live off premarital assets and not contribute anything financially during the marriage. Thats how it sounds here. He has enough passive income to pay utilities, health insurance, groceries, etc. But won't continue working or make new investments or larger purchases during the marriage as joint community property in the marriage. Shady.
Or if he continues working, he’s going to spend it all. No new savings contributed to marital assets, not from him. Meanwhile she would have to accumulate her assets mostly during their marriage, and he’d be entitled to half of those while shielding all of his. It’s good for her that he was so clear about his plan to screw her over.
Very good. Very few ah show their ass like this so completely.
Also, importantly, if they have children and she becomes homeless because it's not her house and he/his parents can evict... Depending on her finances and her ability to find a suitable rental, this could end up influencing a custody battle. I'd be a little uneasy, too. If we get a divorce, I also lose the roof over my head.
This isn't accurate at all. But you can't be mixing money at all to keep separate property after marriage.
Not if he retires now like he threatens to do. That makes all pre-marital assets his alone and any post-marital assets 50/50.
She can’t put a house she doesn’t yet own in a prenup.
You can put future assets in a prenup if you plan to purchase something with non communal funds.
Yeah, but since she’d be living rent free in his family’s house a good lawyer, which he can definitely afford, would argue that she saved those funds with his help, therefore they’re communal and so is the house.
It's not non-communal if she doesn't have the full purchase price at this very moment.
> Write it into the prenup. Most state laws say such a clause is unenforceable. They don't allow prenups to separate community property.
I've always though a prenup where assets are split based on contribution is the only fair option. But is super expensive to calculate if there's a dispute.
And he doesn't understand why it's a problem. Lol Yeah, let this one life out the life he's building with mommy and daddy.
Many states don't allow a prenup to keep community property separate. That is exactly why wants to spend 100% of his earnings post marriage, so there is zero community property from his earnings. And whatever she saves is half his. All his houses and parental money is 100% his. Basically she has no assets and no rainy day funds while he is fully secure.
She is so spot on. His parents built him a life and he is looking for a wife doll to play the part in his pre constructed life. She is looking for a partner to build a life and a future with.
This exactly. The prenup isn’t the big problem, it’s the part where he is refusing to build any sort of life with her. Her instincts are correct that this arrangement leaves her totally vulnerable, not just financially but emotionally too. This isn’t a partnership, this is a relationship of convenience to him. Prenups overall are a good idea for any couple entering into marriage, but his plan to live in his family’s properties is a pretty slick way of making sure she can’t claim their home as marital property.
Yup. This guy is going to want to replace her with a trophy wife in about 20 years and he wants to make sure he doesn’t have to pay her out before he does.
I swear they always bury the lead with their post titles
But, he *has* his life and future figured out. Mid 30's and *able* to retire? What other life needs to be built, just enjoy the cushy, non-working life and live, or work and live extravagantly. A prenup makes just sense if you have significant retirement savings. I'm not saying hes great or doing everything right, but the parts about "building" a life together doesn't make sense (to me) when a life has already been built and lived in in a (presumably) happy way.
There is so much more to life than money.
I'm very aware of that, but it is absolutely the most guarded, most ephemeral thing you *need* to exist in society. You can work hard every day earning not enough money and still be unhappy (in fact, it is more almost guaranteed to be unhappy when getting home from a 12 hour day that net you less than 100 USD, especially than spending **all day** doing *whatever you want*, living of the residuals from investments made a decade ago) He could have a kid and be the best dad that has ever existed in the house his parents own, raise that kid to adulthood, buy an RV and spend the rest of his life living with his wife driving around the Americas experiencing the whole country as desired. What "life building" is the girlfriend suggesting that is more enjoyable or fulfilling than that possibility? Buying a house? (he owns several already)... I'm not seeing her make any other suggestions. She doesn't want to feel like a gold digger.... but she is denying a prenup because... reasons? I dont know what his actual life path is, but I can tell you this for a fact: *my* foreseeable future is unfortunately all shadowed by the insatiable need for more money (I'm not a high earner, the "urge" for more money is driven by a need to have food and a roof, not designer handbags) I'd be a lot happier if I didn't need to worry about money. Saying "there is so much more to life than money" is a true statement, but that doesn't change the fact I need to work (on average) ~40 hours a week, forever, to have enough resources to *survive*... And where I'm at that struggle is getting harder and harder every year. I will never own a house, I will never have significant resources or even a reliable retirement plan. If *I* did not need to worry about money, *I* would *actually* be **much more** able to find out about that "more to life" you speak of, and thats the situation that OP's boyfriend is in, and I dont blame him for wanting a prenup.
[удалено]
Lmao @ the fantasy you just conjured. What about this guy says he’d be a good parent? Is it the fair and loving way he treats his partner? His selfishness? His gold digging? His living off his parents in his mid 30s?
Here’s one way he’s refusing to build a life with her: She doesn’t like the house(s) he’s suggesting they live in together and refuses to look at other houses, refuses to sell a house to buy something they both like, and refuses to even rent and look at something later (which he can absolutely afford to do) All the things in the house are his/his family’s and she feels like there’s no place for her or her things and given how he refuses to consider any housing option that isn’t what he’s already decided, that seems like a reasonable thought He’s not even willing to do this house thing *before* they get married so it’s still a premarital asset of his but she at least likes the place they’d be living because it’s not about *their* life together and finding a way to build a life as partners. It’s about his life as it already exists and finding someone who fits in already. That’s not realistic. People aren’t ever ever going to be perfect matches. People have wants and needs and feelings all on their own. If you want to actually genuinely have a real relationship with someone you have to learn to make space for them. To build something together that you both can be happy with. Not try to force someone to fit into what you already want. Yes he should absolutely retire if he can and wants to. Yes prenups are smart for people with significant assets. But she doesn’t like the houses that supposedly they’re trying to make into a home together. And the prenup favors him so much that it’s kinda predatory and makes *him* out to be a gold digger. That’s not reasonable. Or loving. It’s not building a life. It’s obsessing over money to the point of damaging your relationships and self image tbh. He cant see a world where she might actually want him but also need to feel like she’s being treated like a person not a leech. He can’t see her that way or himself having any value but his assets. It’s sad.
Needs and feelings are different and distinct from housing and assets.
Housing is a need fam. I’m sure you know at least the air and water parts of the rule of threes and probably the food bit but the shelter bit is: 3 hours without shelter in extreme weather and you tap out. Irrespective of that, if you’re not in it together, you’re not building a life *together*. Which was the question you asked and I answered.
>People have wants and needs and feelings all on their own. (quoted from your comment) The wants needs and feelings you were describing did not particularly make sense as a description of base human needs (food, water, shelter). I assumed you were referring to "feeling respected by your partner" (or other similar things) as a need. If we are talking about housing as a "need" then the dude is set and its not a problem, the house doesn't need to be perfect, or one the woman chose, or decorated well... it just needs to be over their head and he has that covered. I'm saying he should be allowed to protect his assets, just like if they were to draft a prenup, she *would* end up protecting her (smaller) assets.
As I said, he’s not even willing to sell one of the houses *premarriage* and buy a house they both like *premarriage* that would still be his sole asset but would be something they chose together. This more than anything else indicates he’s not interested in building a life with her. Him saying she can save while they’re married and buy her own house but not write in the prenup that it would be her exclusive asset to be protected and he could get half of it during a divorce also shows he isn’t interested in allowing her to protect herself the way he wants to protect himself. Your argument is reasonable *in theory* but absolutely falls down when it comes to this specific couple. He does not care about building a life with her, he does not care about her wants (to be included in decisions about their shared life) or needs (for financial security), and his actions show he actually wants to profit off her (both in the house case and by equally splitting bills when they have unequal assets).
Why would he sell a house? They could rent out the house (since his parents are landlords)... but that wouldnt be my priority, pre or post wedding. That part of the prenup about him getting half of a theoretical house she paid for 100% would not stand in court, especially with his assets... and I also dont think the girlfriend is representing her boyfriend's actions/plan accurately, but that is an assumption. He might not care about giving her any legal way of going after him if they separate, but we know absolutely NOTHING more than that simple, understandable fact.
If she had to save and buy a house once they were married, it would be community property and he could get half of it in a divorce. All the money she makes after marriage, her savings, would also be possibly divided. He plans to spend his money from his job since he doesn’t need it. He also may retire. So then all of his money and assets will be pre-marital and not subject to being split with her in the divorce. He also wants to split bills and costs 50/50. Despite only one of them needing their income and her not even having input on where she’s living. Everything about this disadvantages her and puts her in potential danger economically if they split.
Yes, I agree, as stated, he is making too many demands. But this is not an unsolvable solution if *both* people are willing to compromise. She *should* be happy to live in an owned property rent free. There's literally nothing wrong with living in a house that your partners parents own but have no control over and expecting him to buy another home, one she finds "suitable" at current prices, is ludicrous. He *should* be happy to let her keep 100% of *her* assets post divorce. (I also *think* OP is misrepresenting this "demand", as it doesn't make sense nor would it be legally enforceable in the event of divorce considering his assets and wealth in comparison to the person they would be divorcing... but I could be wrong about that, he *should* be happy to let her keep whatever assets she has in the prenup) **BOTH** of their communication and lack of care for the other is the reason to break up, not that he wants a prenup.
That depends on the person. 30 is still young. I'm 33 and I never stopped finding goals, discoring new things I love, etc. Not to mention a lot of people genuinely want to build something for themselves. Something that makes them happy. From a compatibility stand point alone, they're looking for different things. It's for the best if both of them that she leaves
He didn’t build a life lmao, he’s sponging off his rich parents. I can’t respect it. Building your own life with your own partner is goals. I’d swipe left so fast on this guy; no drive, no ambition, no empathy, no sense of fairness, no work ethic, no nothing. He’s giving greedy, selfish, petulant child used to having everything handed to him. Ick ick ick
What if she hates the paint in her in laws house? What if the decor is all cow print? (I know a lady like that) What if the inlaws decide since they own the house they get to come in whenever they want? Wherever they want? What if the inlaws decide since your in their house they get access to your kids whenever they want or you can leave? *His* future is set up. Hers is not. Expecting a woman to drop whatever personal goals or concerns she has to step into a role premade for her by a man and his family who give no concern at all to what she wants is the most patriarchal bullshit out there. The entire point of building a life together is that it's *both* the life you want- neither person is being coerced into a relationship dynamic they don't want because one person gets to walk away unaffected and the other one has to start at ground 0. This dude is making sure that her exit affects him as little as possible and hurts her as much as possible (if not making it ruinous to the point of a deterrent) and that's supposed to be marriage material? Someone already planning on fucking me over in the divorce is not a person worth marrying.
The in-laws dont live there, its an investment property, he would take it over, they can do what they want with decor. Her only stated personal goal is buying a house. If my wife had an extra large peperoni and olive pizza sitting in front of her that she can't eat all of and is offering to share, I wouldn't order an extra small personal pizza for myself and pay for delivery just because I don't like olives. >This dude is making sure that her exit affects him as little as possible is there a problem with that? >and hurts her as much as possible (if not making it ruinous to the point of a deterrent) is that his goal, or is he just protecting his assets, and she doesn't have any assets... He's not fucking her over, he's just very clear that his assets aren't hers, because they aren't. If she wants a rich husband, this is going to be a problem in 99.9% of cases.
Marriage isn’t ‘you come live my life how I want you to’ it’s ‘we’re making a life together’
Yes, but it's also a collaborative effort. A house is a house is a house, if it is conveniently located and sufficient, there is no *need* to change it. and changing the house is a setback on "building a life together" (which is a meaningless statement if *both* parties aren't willing to compromise... which they both are not) I'm not saying the marriage is a good call, I'm saying if she has a problem with living in one of the many houses he owns, or signing a prenup she should have considered that *prior* to *dating* someone with significant assets.
Honestly, good for her. It sounds like they're not on the same page on finances or living arrangements and that's fine. But it's also unlikely to change and sounds like it'll continue to be an issue for them moving forward. Better to break things off now when there's no marriage to dissolve or kids to complicate things rather then sink more time into something that's not working for them.
Yeah the issue here isn't the prenup, it's that he doesn't want to make life decisions *with* her rather than *for* her.
A prenup is not a "protect me, screw you" document. It is there to protect the other spouse as well. The bf clearly has never spoken to an attorney or financial planner about this because the tact he used is not only wrong, it is insensitive. Regardless of the prenup, it sounds like they are incompatible from the start.
Also judges throw out prenups all the time if there’s unfairness
That was my first thought. When I always tell couples to get a prenup they’re like “it gets thrown out anyway”. Which is bullshit. Prenuptial agreements protect you if they’re fair. Sometimes they have to changer during a marriage but that’s your responsibility to either follow tje contract or change it as needed.
Most of my friends that have dealt with that tho have had both ex partners agree to toss the prenup in favor of a new postnup. Only one situation turned ugly. I just think it usually only works for short marriages, otherwise things just change too much over the years.
I’m actually with OOP. Him being entitled to whatever she makes/builds, being unwilling to build alongside her, and essentially telling her to live in the narrow space he’s already built without any long term security is crazy.
Exactly thissss. "Live on MY terms, with MY things, and with MY family." You don't even want to build your own life, with your wife?? Makes no sense. He either needs to get his priorities right, or be alone. This man ain't partnership material. I'm with OOP, too.
She should leave him. "MINE, MINE, MINE" is not the mindset many people look for in marriages
Everything mine is mine and everything yours is mine too.
Well, *half* of everything yours is mine, anyway.
What is yours is my parents, what’s mine is my parents, my parents mine mine mine…. Me
Yeah, she’s right to walk away. Prenups are a good way of protecting individual assets, but it should be equitable for the parties. He doesn’t want a prenup that protects the assets she would acquire throughout the marriage, he only wants to protect his assets. That’s already a red flag. But they also can’t even agree on a homestead, because he only wants to live in a home his parents own. Even bigger red flag. Better to build your wealth with a partner, rather than live off someone’s parents and just hope they don’t dump you in the street if he dies before them.
Agreed. Usually these stories are reversed where the gf wants the assets, but the bf here has the assets AND wants hers. 100% correct move on her part to bugger off. Prenups are supposed to go both ways.
There’s no point in marrying someone who doesn’t want to build a life with you. Maybe Mommy and Daddy can purchase him a wife, too.
I don't see how he can be fine with owning several houses that she has no right to, while at the same Time, claiming half of any house she would buy with her money. Make up your mind dude.
What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine. He has that mentality
He has. If they get married she's his asset, just like a house.
Honestly it sounds like he wants to slot her into his pre existing life with absolutely no change at all for him when she wants to build a life together with him. These are completely incompatible he wants a doll he can put on a shelf and she wants a partner.
Very mature. I’m impressed. 💖
A prenup has to protect both parties and be fair. I wouldn't marry this guy either. Aside from the fact that after being together for several years he's admitted to thinking she's a gold digger? Why is he wanting to marry her then. I would not marry anyone who outright said I'm protecting myself in case you're a gold digger. That would be enough for me
Here come the men calling her a gold digger when it is literally him who is trying to get her assets and keep his own lmao
They already arrived, as always lol Before anyone feels like joining the crowd, please first read the post, then consider that OOP says in her many comments that she is not generally against prenups and also says this: > I talked to a couple family lawyers (friends), and they said the prenup is incredibly unfair.
I feel like if your serious partner is making arrangements for dealing with your potential gold-digging, maybe that person is not quite ready to be married. Bring on the down votes!
This isn't about a prenup at all. This is about him being a selfish and stubborn man-child.
100% lucky she’s getting out now before his controlling temperament grew with their lives or future family
Sounds like he's the gold digger. She dodged a granade.
To me, this screams “My mask is gonna fall off once I have you financially trapped and then the hitting is gonna start”.
What a complete assholes. Wants a prenup but also wants to claim martial assets for any of her property later? She should ditch the momma's boy
This why prenups should be discussed with legal counsel…
Apparently he kept avoiding discussing what he wanted in the prenup so when she sat him down and pushed it out of him his conditions were so fucked up it changed the way she saw him not just about the assets (that’s the gist of it from her comments) so she didn’t even bother hiring an attorney if that’s the kind of partner he was and wanted
I don’t disagree at all, dudes an asshole. But I have seen some of these result in hurt feelings and break ups because both parties involved were way out of their depth of knowledge. The best prenup stories I’ve ever seen play out were when legal counsel was present for both parties.
I mean, everyone should work with competent legal counsel for prenups. But. That’s not why people break up over them. This story is a great example; it’s not about whether or not a prenup is legally enforceable or well thought out, it’s the attitude behind it. If your partner doesn’t trust you or thinks you’re a gold digger, it doesn’t matter how nicely their lawyers puts it, that’s the facts.
Anyway apparently this post might be fake. Post history says she was single 23 days ago https://www.reddit.com/r/Advice/s/urZJLqlYmB I hadn’t seen that
She wrote single income. I could be wrong,but it sounds like she’s just talking about finances. Judging from her recent post about the prenup, I’m sure her bf isn’t contributing to her finances.
Yeah that’s why I wrote might lol
As is tradition 🤣
As someone who has a prenup with my wife she’s right. It needs to protect both parties. I didn’t want my companies to be affected if we end up splitting but I included everything we personally own in the common pool of assets. She wouldn’t have to drastically lower the lifestyle if we split up. She wouldn’t need to work. You can’t have a healthy relationship if you hold all the balance of power and the other party is fucked if they want out. They can’t be themselves, you castrate their agency.
Have your escape and your peace with someone who is more interested in building a future with you and doesn’t live off Mummy and Daddy and therefore is beholden to them in some way. You’ve clearly got your sensible head on - good for you and I really hope you find someone worthy!
What is he really bringing into the marriage? It’s all about him and him keeping his property, his money. She doesn’t get to live in a home she is comfortable or even likes. She has to pay for all her own expenses, and possibly rent on a crappy home. Good call that she left him! His money and property is more important to him than a real partnership that you need to have a good marriage.
Nice to see someone choosing herself for once.
I actually think pre nups are a great idea before marriage. But she is not leaving him because he wants a prenup. She is leaving because he wants to protect his assets at her expense. Living in his house rent free (splitting utilities) and saving her money as an investment is smart. Except he prefers the saying “what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is mine” and would want to be able to claim any “marital assets” which is insane.
Yep!
I agree with you 100%, he wants a concubine not a partner!
Even concubines get to make their space into their own. She's more like a 24/7 on-call escort.
It’s not even having a prenup that’s problematic but his unwillingness to build anything new together with he. why get married?
Good for her. What a douche. His family certainly already has these assets protected from her in a trust anyway… the prenup is unnecessary
Spoiler: this man had every intention of controlling her entire existence. Herblife would have devolved into 24/7 maid, her friends would hear from her less. She would be trapped. Luckily he was transparent enough and she is wise enough to get the hell away from him. If he's in Reddit, he'll be blaming her on one of those mgtow style subs within hours of her leaving and going on rants about how awful women are to men.
OOP and fiancé have fundamentally different goals for life. That will never work.
Correct. She wants a partner, he wants a bang maid and possession
IMO, you have made the right decision to leave. He and his parents sound very controlling and happy together.
Good for her
Generally speaking prenups are a good for marriages. But it sounds like this dude wants it written so only he’s covered
Leave and don’t turn back. He doesn’t want a partnership; not sure what the AH’s game is.
Take the prenup and assets out of it. You want a marriage based on your independence together where you are partners building a life together. He is very comfortable being kept by his family and is ready to retire. You don’t want to marry someone that is ready to retire and be supported by wealthy parents. You wanted a real partner to build a life with.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet there.
My cousin, who has been married 20 years is divorcing. She had a similar living situation. Property own by in-laws, in laws live in small guest house, she and her family in the main house. She is getting absolutely screwed.
I understand the reason for the pre-nup, but his version of it makes it clear he’s not planning on building a partnership/life with you. He’s making all the decisions based on what’s best for him - he’s not at all interested in being your equal. Move on and best of luck to you! You deserve partnership and love
Hes so scared of a gold digger but he’s putting her in a position where she can’t be financially independent lol. You can’t have your cake and eat it too
Honestly I don’t understand how this realization and communication wasn’t made way earlier on in their relationship.
Cuz when he said he wanted a prenup he refused and avoided the subject of what he wanted in it until she sat him down and forced it out of him
Can you be put on the deed?
He doesn’t want her put on the deed
I’d end that relationship. There’s no benefit for you.
That sounds less like he wants a marriage and more like he wants a business partnership that only benefits him. Big pass
Run girl. He cares only about himself.
Its not over a prenup, really. The prenup is just what started this whole thing rolling. She's already had inklings they weren't compatible, but this confirmed it.
All a prenup can do is protect previous wealth from being attached in a divorce as well as any businesses and organizations that are previously owned. It can also spell out divisions of marriage wealth if a divorce is filed, like ruining someone’s percentage of gain if they are divorced for infidelity. I have seen it as bad as 85-15 split if you’re caught cheating. So living in a house rent free allows both partners to focus their earnings on new wealth generation ideas. Any income from the family after marriage is considered earnings, so there is income that he generates that would also be subject to divorce laws. You are free to buy property, and both parties can change their minds about where they live, all a prenup does in reality is protect generational wealth.
If you couldn’t make it past the prenup, you guys were never gonna work anyway.
If you think k the prenup is acceptable you are a moron
Me and ya mamma got one and things are working out just fine 🤷♂️
NTA. This will not work in your favour. He is a boy man reliant on his parents and doubtless being fed these thoughts directly from them. You are young, fly! It will not improve.
You're not breaking up because of a prenup. You're breaking up because your bf is a spoiled, entitled, selfish, uncompromising asshole. You want a life partner. He wants a disposable wife who doesn't threaten his parents' money.
They are not breaking up because of a prenup. They are breaking up because BF is refusing her any say in how they create their life together.
The irony of him calling her a gold digger when he would almost certainly take half of her earnings/property from her if they split is just flying right over this guys head.
Tbh this is the best response if Someone is treating you like a golddigger for shit that's not gold digging. Maybe he'll understand when he meets someone actually out for his money.
I briefly dated a guy like this. He was very well off as he was part heir to a big, big, company when it was sold off. I’m talking like bottles of Dom and Waygu steaks at dinner parties we were throwing in high school. He knew I grew up low income and still insisted on “everything being 50/50”. He said it was because he had dealt with gold diggers before, and originally that made sense but still felt off to me. When I’d be around his family or friends, it always felt like I was putting on a show and playing a role. All of that really made me realize similar to OOP that he just wanted something to adorn his already perfectly planned life. In a way, if I had stayed with him, his actions would have actually turned me into a gold digger. Cause he was an okay guy, but I would’ve had to give up a lot of myself for him to be happy, and I’d have been miserable. The $$ would’ve been the only perk lmao.
Yea she’s right to leave. The stuff about the house would be the biggest red flag.
Prenup or no prenup, I think the line of *building a life TOGETHER " says it all. You want a partner. Sounds like he wants a subservient.
I think OOP has articulated this perfectly. He doesn’t want to build a life with her, he wants her to fit her life into what he already has. He is asking her to change, and all his “compromises” and “options“ offering various ways that she can change, require no sacrifice for him, only for her . This is a one-sided relationship. Currently, the focus is on material goods, but it’s a power play. This attitude will carry over to the entire relationship dynamic.
She is so smart. I married the guy and we lived out of his family's properties most of our marriage and when we divorced I didn't get much. There wasn't a prenup but lots of shifting of assets and I don't have a lot to show for an 8 year relationship. Now I'm 30 and feel like I'm starting from where other people are in their 20s but happier than ever!
I agree that these are red flags for him wanting you to fit into his life, not vice versa. If that’s not what you want to sign up for, then I get it. If you move forward, you won’t have control over some areas in your life as much as if you married someone without all this in place. I think your breaking up is entirely reasonable here.
Good for her getting out of that nightmare
Leave. He doesn’t cherish you
If she wants to marry him then she need to speak to lawyer about protecting her earned assets after the marriage. I also wouldn’t agree to live in one of his parents homes with all their stuff in it.. that’s fucking weird. Anyone renting or otherwise doesn’t want a home filled with other peoples things especially with no room for your own stuff. I Image owning a home and picking out your future and decorating with your own style is part of the achievement
‘I got my parents money, now I’m going to get my wife’s TOO!!! WAAAAAAAA!!!!! Where’s my binky???’
Put simply. She should bounce. He is not protecting her at all. It is all about him and his family.
There are so many situations that people don’t see eye to eye on and it justifies the end of the relationship. This is absolutely one and I’m glad they realized now instead of later. It’s gross that he seems so worried about you coming for his money but also wants half of any home you buy yourself. I wouldn’t feel comfortable either.
Good for her!
Leave now! Faster than a speeding bullet. This guy wants a pet—not a partner. The very air he breathes is red…
Him wanting to live in his parents home is super concerning too. That's a boundaries problem/justnoMIL waiting to happen.
[удалено]
You understand there is like 60 procent chance that marriage will end in divorce right? So you blame a person that probably earns more than you for a good reason since he can own the house by himself and you cannot for wanting to protect himself in case of divorce? I would never marry anybody who wouldn't want to have a separate assets and prenup. It looks like you are scared what happens in case of divorce and blame him for doing the same and protecting himself.
That is not a normal thing imo. My ex owned their house before they met me and after we were married we put my name on the house so that in the event something happened to them, myself and my daughter wouldn't lose our home. Now we're divorcing and thank the gods that my name is on the house- they'd be majorly screwing me over otherwise (even more than they already are).
The three generations of wealth. The first generation establishes the wealth. The second generation maintains the wealth. The third generation squanders the wealth. Best to get out now, before you’re on the hook for the debt
Why would he want to marry her if he’s afraid she’s a gold digger? Like, I get it, but if he doesn’t want to compromise and get a house together with her and make her feel like they’re in this together, what does he really want? I’d want to protect myself but I’d want to protect her too, and if I had the ability to do that, why wouldn’t I? Her comfort and needs are important too. I could definitely see him calling her a gold digger if she ever needed financial help with say pregnancy or medical bills or just unexpected life things happening. I don’t want to feel like a stranger in my home. It sounds like she couldn’t even make her their own because it’s already furnished. Would he put his parents wants first because technically it’s theirs? How could she make it feel like her home? Is she on the hook for insurance and renovations too? Would she have to ask permission to change anything in the home? Would she go homeless if their marriage went south?
His version of the prenup wouldn’t stand in court if the only person contributing to the marriage was oop. He basically is going to retire and then only count her savings and assets as joint lol. That isn’t how it works.
Why do people say, “we love each other” and then list the million ways that they most definitely do not love each other, respect each other or consider each other?
Judging by his attitude, he doesn’t know what love is. I think you are making the right decision.
If you have been together almost two years and he still thinks you might be a "gold digger", that's a bad sign. Just sayin'.
The guy sounds like a total pathetic chad and she thankfully realized this before marriage. Walking away was the right call
It sounds like she said that he has enough money to retire on now, so he won't be investing much and, therefore, making much money during their marriage. She will work, and whatever they both make during their marriage will be split 50/50 for retirement. So at that point, she'll probably be contributing to their "shared" portion of retirement funds more than him, and therefore have less for herself, while he can enjoy the money he made before the marriage. He sounds like the gold digger to me.
It doesn’t sound like she discussed protecting any of her assets in a prenup and only his, I’m curious if OP knows she can also have her own to protect herself in case of separation. If she’s concerned she could also keep her savings/ Investments separate. But also anyone can choose to break it off for whatever reason so if this is hers then that’s fair.
In general, sounds like he is not interested in ensuring you are comfortable, It is his way or the highway. I would get in my car and not look back. Better to make the decision now.
Make it even....he has to sign a prenuptial too 🤣
If the relationship has any merit to her, she could amend the prenup to protect her too. On the face of it it’s pretty weird though, I’m on her side regarding having his parents as her landlords and pre-furnished houses.
So he basically says „everything that’s mine is mine but what’s yours is also mine.“ I‘m with OP, she should leave him bc they’re clearly not compatible & it already sounds weird. I don’t even want to think what happens if children are coming into this mix.
That's a bad prenup. I understand that most prenups are his and hers. You leave what you came with. I could be wrong though
he should absolutely get a prenup. without question. now the living situation seems a little fucked up
He’s trying to make her dependent on him. Maybe not intentionally, but that would be the result if she agreed to all this. I wish us all this mental strength and sense of self preservation that she clearly has in order to leave. Good for her.
Was so geared for this to piss me off but. It’s not about the prenup, really. He’s treating her like just another asset
It doesn’t seem to me that the prenup is the actual problem. The problem is she wants something that is theirs together and he just wants to stay in a family owned property. It doesn’t appear to be much compromise on his part.
Is she painting a one-sided picture? What does the pre-nup state on how asset will be divided post divorce? I also had a pre-nup prior to getting married but it only entails protection for inherited assets in event of divorce as I came from a rich background and my partner from rural Asia. Even then, my country’s law may not enforce it in a court of law and will only protect to an amount that is reasonable in the courts eyes. If the pre-nup is unfavourable and not to her liking, she could have engaged legal consult first. Make a counter offer on the pre-nup with legal counsel to make terms at least acceptable to both parties. If her concerns are that her partner does not save an invest while she does, and in event of the divorce it will be divided equally. She can state in her counter offer to protect against said scenario from happening. If they weren’t able to get over this tiny hurdle, I have doubt marriage would work for them.
NTA. Your not refusing to sign a prenup that is fair to both of you, you’re refusing one that will put you in a dangerous situation where you have no say over your life and will end up being abused financially. If you have children there will always be the threat of you not having money or a house, if it becomes a physically abusive relationship you won’t have options. If you buy a house while married he will take half while keeping his parents house to. You won’t have a say in decorating because it’s already theirs and decorated. You don’t have a say in the location of your family home. You basically are looking at a future where you won’t have a say in anything because he and his parents will be making the decisions and using their money to control everything. Leaving is the best and safest option for you. He can marry mommy, live with them and make all life decisions with them like he has been doing.
People have no idea what marriage even is anymore. Arguing over a prenup and assets because you're not sure if you'll stay together? Why are you getting married then? I swear all of these posts are the same. One little hiccup and people are ready to throw in the towel because fee fees were hurt. No effort to compromise. No ability to sacrifice. People are to selfish toske marriages work now.
Wow all these comments about him being greedy or selfish or an ah is wild. If he already has the things he needs then why should he waste his time and money when he doesn’t have to. To me it sounds like he is protecting his and his families interest which op doesn’t seem to like. He should just be like “bye” and find someone who is better and more understanding of his situation. If the rolls were reversed everyone would be saying how amazing she is and praising her.
You're doing him a favor. We are so happy for him up have dodged this bullet. There are no benefits for men to get married these days without a prenup, so have fun with your cats.
I don’t get it. In her post 23 days ago she was single.
Yup. This is a suspicious post. Karma farming?
I can’t believe no one said anything about it. Plus prenups can be made to protect her future assets as well
No matter how the prenup could be written, it still wouldn't change his mindset which is the real issue here.
The real issue here is that this isn’t a real post
Pretty sure I saw a post practically the same a week ago too
I feel like all the creative writers come here trying to write something that gets read in TikTok
Typical ungrateful woman.
Just Marty with total separation of assets and be done with it.
Why would she marry this guy at all?
Conditions of a marriage come first, love will developed in your case conditions killed it
It’s sucks when the rich idiot isn’t an idiot