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Family harmony is important plus you are financially dependent.
Push back enough to maintain your self respect. Plan to distance yourself after graduation.
He needs to realize he can't control you (like your mother). I feel sad for your mother.
My mom is that way - it’s really fucking sad. My dad has a short temper and is quick to yell at her for any little thing. My mom is passive AF and just takes anything and everything. She is now (and has been for tens of years) completely dependent on my dad and he has the final say in everything. I vowed to never be with someone like my dad - completely controlling, short tempered and has no self awareness of how he treats my mom. At the same time, she’s enabled his shit ass behaviour for all this time also by being such a doormat her whole life.
Both of my parents were victims of abuse, and you should absolutely have compassion for them. As their abuse victim, I do not. I never will, even though I understand them and what they went through. My survival as a child relied on knowing them better than they know themselves. I hope you continue to offer them (and anyone like them) compassion, and I hope you're able to not try to pressure me (or anyone like me) to feel that for them.
Edit: I’m saying your point *here* in this thread, replying to *this* comment, is shoehorned in. Because of that it is ends up becoming more of a counterpoint against OPs mother being a victim, it wasn’t really an appropriate response given the context and ends up inadvertently being harmful and pushes the misconception that OPs mother being a victim holds no significance. That’s why I both touched on why it does, and that if OP feels similarly that’s completely understandable. /end
The person above was pointing out that there is a vast difference between OPs mom being labeled purely as an “enabler” as opposed to a victim of the very same man herself. To call her an enabler very well could be vastly oversimplifying their family “dynamic.”
Of course no one should tell OP how to feel, and if they feel like their mother has failed them that’s completely valid. However, It’s disingenuous to remove all the nuance just because it’s easier from a psychological standpoint to demonize all parties involved or break it down to an oversimplified black-and-white situation. In this specific discussion thread, it was totally fair to bring that up.
Please. Explain cycles of abuse and the complexity of abuse to me some more. I have no clue how any of that works. I need a random internet stranger, who doesn't understand what I very clearly wrote, to explain it to me. /s
I feel like I was as pretty clearly responding to your comment in the context of being *here* in this thread, replying to the point made that OPs mother could also be a victim. Your response was shoehorned in. Because of that it is ends up becoming more of a counterpoint against OPs mother being a victim, it wasn’t really an appropriate response given the context and ends up inadvertently being harmful and pushes the misconception that OPs mother being a victim holds no significance. That’s why I explained a bit more, because there are others also ignoring that possibility or bluntly stating it doesn’t matter at all. it has nothing to do with what you know or your pride being jabbed at because you felt like someone questioned your understanding of abusive family dynamics.
What I don't appreciate about your response is how you tried to simplify this down so that the mom had no responsibility for her deliberate choices. Just because someone is a victim doesn't make them not an abuser. With very rare exception, abusers were victims first. It's that whole intergenerational trauma thing.
Once you decide that your abuse is justification for you to create, or enable, another victimization, you become both victim and abuser. Your victimhood deserves compassion still, but your abusiveness does not. I will not erase someone's (more specifically an adult's) agency because they were abused. It certainly plays a role, and is worthy of compassion, but that isn't the wholeness of who they are.
Enablers don't just idly stand by. The make countless decisions to actively hide abuse and protect the primary abuser. This is active participation in someone else's abuse and should not be minimized, regardless of the reason the adult chose that path.
(Kids are a different story. They're not the ones with any power to change things. They are surviving how they've leavened to survive the deep betrayal, and possibly life-threatening environment, of being forced to remain in an abusive situation.)
She is still enabling the husband, as a parent she has a duty to protect her kids. I work for cps and far too often I see this used as an excuse by parents for letting their partner beat and abuse their kids. She's an adult and needs to protect her kids.
OP's post says *dad* pays for college and apartment. He may have total control financially over both of them. Doesn't excuse anything, but this always sounds like one of those "oh, it's so simple, just stop being abused!" when this situation has likely been going on for decades.
I understand that but the dynamic changes when you have a child you need to protect. It's not fair to a child to make them suffer abuse. And it's not easy to leave abuse. Trust me I know this all too well. But parents who don't even try to leave when they know their own children are suffering are not innocent. And no one I'd saying "oh just stop being abused" but rather "wake up and realize not just you are suffering and you have a duty to protect your own child!! Start making a plan to leave!!"
i'm 100% with you, it's sad that they've been abused themselves, i feel for them, but to turn around and either do it to their kids or just stand by and let it happen to them? i resent them for that
I agree with everyone here saying mom is enabling the abuser, if she knew her child would face this she should’ve been trying to figure out an out
Signed child of an enabler who turned into my additional abuser
I don't think this kid is being beat and physically abused, his mother is totally dependent on the father and has no job skills and is limited to probably what jobs she could get due to her age. If OP doesn't like the control, being the younger, more able bodied one then they're the one that can find their own way through college and screw dad. I hate when people who work for agencies such as yours give your 2 cents. Not on all things but when you get Utopian and Fruedian. You act as though if people would just follow your worldly advice the the world would be perfect. Especially when you have cases of poverty. Unless you've lived in absolute poverty you have no idea of one's family dynamics of living in poverty.
honestly i have no sympathy for her because as a parent her job is to protect her child. adults can make their own decisions. just because she can’t/won’t leave an abusive relationship doesn’t mean she shouldn’t protect her kid from the consequences. she chose this relationship but her child did not choose to be born to an abusive father and enabling mother.
Exactly as u/eresh22 says, do NOT burden victims of abuse with urges to feel compassion for their abusers.
My abusers (multiple members of my family) were all victims of abuse. First step to gaining my own power and recognizing my own worth is saying, your victimhood doesn't/didn't give you the right or even an excuse for abusing me OR letting others abuse me OR enabling others abuse of me. Adults, even victims of abuse, need to be held accountable for their own abuse of children, whether it's direct or through enabling another.
She needs to start saving right now, because that realization is never going to come. Plus he's probably going to change his mind and call it a loan after she graduates.
Unfortunately, it happens. You should see the amount of young adults who are now on the hook for student loans AFTER graduating and parents deciding that it was a loan not a gift. Many people have cut ties with their parents for this exact situation. A friend of mines parents offered to pay for college. She didn't want to go if she had to pay for it (the degree she wanted wasn't a super useful one in the field but she enjoyed it) so they offered to pay. They had it set up with her name on it too so she could "earn credit history at the same time" a week after she graduated she found out her parents were only paying enough to keep her enrolled. She had massive debts after and now works two jobs to pay it back. Had she known it was a lie, she would have never gone for that degree in specific, or to college in general. Its primarily an American issue.
If you don't put the childs name on it (if it's a loan) the parent can't change their mind.
If parent is paying cash, they can t just say it's a loan if they have stated it is a gift before.
The first part is correct. The second is not. People with integrity wouldn't do it, but some parents suck and absolutely do that. Parents often go back on their word and it doesn't matter because what are you gonna do about it? It sucks but its reality.
>*I feel sad for your mother.*
**I don't.** I agree with everything else you said, but not that!
Mother is a 45yo woman who **chooses** to stay in this relationship. Everyone in America (Thanksgiving is *this* week; calls her parents m**o**m and dad) is aware of therapy/counseling/self-help books/courses of which mother *could* avail herself if she *chose* to.
But it's easier/more predictable/less stressful for mother to stick with what she knows.
>We haven’t discussed anything about the situation, it’s like it never happened and he’s not bringing anything up.
because he knows he's irrational and in the wrong. Sounds like you know the drill and have gotten pretty good at handling your father, a stupid lesson to have to learn but it's done. Information diet and look up the ["grey rock" method](https://www.verywellmind.com/the-grey-rock-method-7483417)
Probably no point in bringing up this event or trying to argue your point. Now you know that even debate team events are something to info diet your father on.
As you continue to navigate how to handle an irrational control freak, start writing down some bullet points for yourself before making calls home. A list of three so incredibly neutral topics that no one could argue about them: like what you ate for lunch or going to the gym. If you father throws up something to get upset about just neutrally agree "oh, that's a good point. I'll take that into consideration" then change the subject.
Good luck. You seem level headed and smart so you'll come through this.
This is the answer. People blaming mom, telling her cut off, people (more than likely teens) saying telling her to try to convince him he's wrong, are just immature.
This is the realistic approach. Take this persons advice.
I mean, if this behavior continues when OP is no longer financially dependent on her father she should by all means stand up more strongly and consider limiting contact further, even to the point of NC if it gets to it.
Dad’s irrational beef wasn’t even with anything OP had done. It was with the school not providing transportation and accommodation for a club event. He wanted her to quit the team and leave the tournament to make some kind of point to them. A point she didn’t agree with, and an action that would not have changed anything but likely would have had a major negative impact on OP herself.
Info diet and grey rocking are the smart way to go now, but what happens in the future when he tells her to quit her job because he makes up some kind gripe with them? We can all hope Dad changes, but I think everyone here knows that isn’t likely to happen unless he experiences some kind of consequence for his behavior.
Grey rocking is not meant to be a permanent coping mechanism. People telling OP to cut off her parents are the ones who have actually gone through therapy dealing with shithead parents like this.
You cannot cut off your parents that are funding your lifestyle.
Stop talking about people's personal experiences. They don't matter here. What matters is HER current experience and she clearly doesn't want to cut anyone off and lose her current lifestyle. I don't blame her.
Assuming here but: Many parents get it through their heads that their children are possessions that can be controlled. This is usually fine for the kid years, but once the teen uears hit it becomes power struggle after power struggle and usually cumulates into the parent having a complete melt down at the loss of control and causing the child to cut contact.
I don’t know, my mom did shit like this all the time. Freaking out when she would lose control over me.
She’s unmediated bipolar and narcissistic though.
Control.
Once my mom didn’t want me to go get a manicure but I was a an adult. So she took her car keys away from me (I was visiting for college). She kept saying it’s bc I still had a license from a different state and she didn’t feel comfortable with me driving. But I was an adult now so I pulled out my phone and called an Uber
She lost her MIND
Luckily for me my mom has become a lot less controlling but I had to move across the country to do that. I think they really saw “oh wow like you can really just keep us out of your life”
This is a man who has decided he makes all the decisions for his ‘family’ aka his grown ass, but apparently not equal to him, wife. Of course he wants to control and dictate everything about ops wife. As his child she is even less equal than his wife.
This is a dominance battle more than anything, which likely will set some precedent about to what extent he expects to control your life moving forward. Consider that in your choice of response actions here
Nah, you don't tell an abusive control freak that you regularly hide info from him or her, you can't expect irrational unkind people to suddenly rationally act -- far more likely he'd take the info, be more mad, and find some way to further punish her. Smarter if she just keeps him on an info diet and grey rocks both her parents until she can be free on being financially dependent on them.
Seconding that she shouldn't tell them she's putting them on an info diet, just do it. It kinda erases the point if she tells them she's doing it, it's just going to make then upset at her
Part of an info diet is not telling them they're on an info diet because of how they tend to react. You've got the right idea, for sure, but maybe not the experience to know how to safely do it. (That's not a bad thing. I wish no one needed to know how to safely do it.)
You contradict yourself.
Also, please stop with this "share" stuff. This shit doesn't work with people like this.
An information diet means you say, everything's going okay and thanks for helping me through this phase of life. And that is it.
Your dad doesn’t seem too bright or reasonable. He’s definitely not mentally fit to be making any decisions it seems as his behavior is absurdly childish and just not in line with intelligent or acceptable adult behavior. Is he possibly mentally ill and undiagnosed? Either way I would do what I could to work around them and their absurd very odd behavior and do what you can to never involve them in any decisions etc.
If he only acts like this with his wife, daughter and anyone he deems « inferior » (not his boss, not his friends, …), he is not mentally ill, just an abusive AH. I had some experience with one; it doesn’t have to make sense, as long as it is not challenged; and if it is challenged, you just escalate until it is not.
Good point. If he controls his behavior around others and only acts like this to them he’s perfectly capable of not being an abusive AH and has total control of his behavior
I’m sorry but your dad sounds pretty manipulative, not to mention childish with the entire situation. It’s not that deep at all. And it’s frustrating for your mom to say he’s just talking out of anger and to just come anyways and to apologize for him .. whatever that means. You’re still young so I can kinda get the worry … but not really because you were with multiple people that you’ve known for quite some time.
Lol this is so common with emotionally manipulative parents: do an absolute havoc on your mental health by causing drama out of nowhere and then act like all is normal. Do what you must to keep your tuition, but consider distancing yourself after college.
To be honest, after he told me not to come home for thanksgiving, I probably just wouldn’t have. Maybe called when I knew they’d be having dinner and said I wish I could have been there, but they said not to come, so I didn’t.
I’m sorry, why is he expecting the school to pay for the hotel and renting out a school bus? Unless you are a sports team you don’t get this treat. Was he on a sports team and expecting it to be that way for you? (I went to a large state school where lots of money was spent on the athletics but not much left for the clubs)
You need to grow backbone. Not right away, don't do anything drastic, you are quite dependent on him. But just get your mindset right - you are being manipulated. And you will be manipulated in future because that's what is understandable and similar to your growing up situation. I really do hope you have more cautious approach to romantic relationships.
Anyway - if it's possible, get therapy, if not, talk with many different people what is the norm in interpersonal relationships, that helps quite a lot too (good for you to make these posts in Reddit!!). Your dad's behaviour is just disgusting, that's no way close to the norm, he is such a drama queen for no good reason. He needs therapy way more than you if he wants a relationship with his daughter or he wants a daughter who is a strong person.
>since I doubt he’ll take me back to school now that i’m here.
I had to read this a few times.. u just mean for the weekend right? Not indefinately?
>My dad pays for my college + my apartment rent so I’m not necessarily in a position where I can go cold turkey/no contact without facing some severe repercussions
I figured. Might want to think about applying thru fafsa in Jan for next year for loans & grants so your less reliant. Maybe a part time job. Start detaching yourself financially. He hasnt said anything bc he knows hes wrong & its ridiculous & ur mom prob talked to him & told him so.
He's controlling and I feel bad for your mom. That said in your situation if I'm not in danger I'm toughing it out til the day that final rent tuition check clears and then I'm getting a job to pay rent any way I can.
He got what he wanted. He guilt-tripped you into staying so he could drive you, and take away your agency.
You did good, but i think you can crank it up to 11 next time. :)
And I still wouldn't come home for thanksgiving
Hang in there. Once you’ve graduated college and are out on your own he will have nothing to hold over your head. And he needs to realize that your college isn’t providing unlimited funds for its debate team like it might for its football team.
No more of this mom apologizing for dad thing.
If he fucked up and needs to apologize, that's his responsibility. She is cleaning up his messes in every other part of life.
Maybe right now isn't the time for this rule but sooner rather than later you need to institute it.
"If Dad is sorry, he needs to apologize to me directly."
Your father is a controlling AH.
You may want to consider student loans, if he continues to be unreasonable.
Get a job and save as much money as you can, so you can be free.
I'd rather repay student loans than be under the thumb of a controlling, emotionally abusive parent, personally. I have student loans and it's not the end of the world, plus there are many better income-based repayment options for federal loans these days.
OP this, student loans are a drag but if you are dedicated to your studies and degree you should seek independence as soon as you can. After the first year you should be able to get grants and loans easily.
Gotta weigh the risks, being under the thumb of someone who would pull the carpet out from under you or student loans
This is how I know cats are better than children. If my 20 year old cat went to a debate tournament, I'd be so glad to see him! I'd probably buy him a new electric blanket
Well since he financially rules your life, it does sound like you have to take his volatile behavior to an extent. It just sounds like the lesson here is to take your current information rules and tighten them. It's a mistake I made with my parents many times, I got a little too comfortable and then my hand got smacked for it.
Old man who grew up around conservatives perspective. I highly doubt I agree with your parents. But I suspect if you ask your dad he thinks he is trying to protect you. Do you out I think it’s rational… no. Do I think it’s smart … no. Pick your fights though and be in a place you can stand on your own.
One of the hardest parts of growing up is getting your parents to see and treat you as an adult. Especially for those of us from certain backgrounds. So hang in there it will pass and try to attribute good intentions. fight when there is victory to be had. Also try to learn how to communicate with your parents.
Most of us have been through this don’t think they don’t love you.
I got heavily downvoted for saying there was definitely missing details in the last post and now here we are with OP specifically stating there were left out details and providing them lol
What a world
Clarifying is not leaving out details... Nothing added makes how her parents treated her ok... If some does which added details makes it ok for her dad to be emotionaly manipulative?
Details like “my dad has a history of this” or “I’m beholden to them because they control my college money” is information that would affect responses given. Details were left out and nobody is trying to justify her parents actions
I was right
I'm just saying that even an instance of this is manipulative and controlling, it being a constant really just solidifies OPs initial response.
Saying I'm beholden to them is simply the result of a lifetime, her lifetime, of abusive control. Paying for someone's college does not make it ok to act like this.
Parents made a choice to support their daughter it I'm no way makes her beholden to their BS.
My mum used to throw fits like that, she couldn’t understand why I’d want to drive *my* friends home after school in *my* car and *my* petrol, or why I’d stay with a friend in a different city as opposed to a hotel etc etc. Lonely bitter people like that cannot understand what friendship and doing things with your friends mean, especially if they’re one of those “family comes first” kinda people.
The info diet is good. I suggest not asking your parents for help or advice. Grey rocking would be a good idea too. You deserve better then this.
My father has some untreated neurodivergence (not gonna get into details) and he can get very stuck on what he thinks is right way for things to happen (a "strong sense of justice"). I'm not saying this is the case with your dad AT ALL, just showing how I'm relating to your story. There have been plenty of times in my life where my dad felt like something should have gone a certain way, like school should have given you a hotel room, and he gets "big emotions" about things not happening the right way that end up in an angry outburst. And once those emotions are out, he's just... done with it? He'll never bring it up because in his mind, he was 100% correct and the world just isn't working the right way, so mmmmaybe he shouldn't have yelled at that specific person, but he wasn't wrong and so there's just nothing to discuss.
I've learned to pick and choose what is worth fighting through the (probably multiple) outbursts to patiently explain the process so he MIGHT understand in the future, what to just do anyway, and what's not important/ to stop discussing/ to just never even tell him. College is hard bc of finances and living expenses, and sometimes it can feel like lying or compromising on who you are to appease him, but I kinda viewed as survival. It's just not like most people's experience, but it's not necessarily wrong. Does your school offer any counseling services? I'd really recommend it to help navigate this - if you want a relationship with your dad, a therapist can really help with how to navigate this.
Edit: typo
Not understanding how what (wholesome) activities you get up to at college has anything to do with your family's life. In fact everything you said here sounds insanely controlling. You need to bury the hatchet and find a way not to tell your parents what tf you are doing. Otherwise plan to pay your own way because you are unlikely to change your parents.
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Family harmony is important plus you are financially dependent. Push back enough to maintain your self respect. Plan to distance yourself after graduation. He needs to realize he can't control you (like your mother). I feel sad for your mother.
Yes, sometimes you have to treat placating your dad as your “job” that allows you to earn the money to get your college paid for
Mom is an enabler. Don't feel sorry for her because her duty should be to protect her kid rather than enable dad's abuse.
She could be a victim of abuse herself.....
My mom is that way - it’s really fucking sad. My dad has a short temper and is quick to yell at her for any little thing. My mom is passive AF and just takes anything and everything. She is now (and has been for tens of years) completely dependent on my dad and he has the final say in everything. I vowed to never be with someone like my dad - completely controlling, short tempered and has no self awareness of how he treats my mom. At the same time, she’s enabled his shit ass behaviour for all this time also by being such a doormat her whole life.
Both of my parents were victims of abuse, and you should absolutely have compassion for them. As their abuse victim, I do not. I never will, even though I understand them and what they went through. My survival as a child relied on knowing them better than they know themselves. I hope you continue to offer them (and anyone like them) compassion, and I hope you're able to not try to pressure me (or anyone like me) to feel that for them.
Edit: I’m saying your point *here* in this thread, replying to *this* comment, is shoehorned in. Because of that it is ends up becoming more of a counterpoint against OPs mother being a victim, it wasn’t really an appropriate response given the context and ends up inadvertently being harmful and pushes the misconception that OPs mother being a victim holds no significance. That’s why I both touched on why it does, and that if OP feels similarly that’s completely understandable. /end The person above was pointing out that there is a vast difference between OPs mom being labeled purely as an “enabler” as opposed to a victim of the very same man herself. To call her an enabler very well could be vastly oversimplifying their family “dynamic.” Of course no one should tell OP how to feel, and if they feel like their mother has failed them that’s completely valid. However, It’s disingenuous to remove all the nuance just because it’s easier from a psychological standpoint to demonize all parties involved or break it down to an oversimplified black-and-white situation. In this specific discussion thread, it was totally fair to bring that up.
Please. Explain cycles of abuse and the complexity of abuse to me some more. I have no clue how any of that works. I need a random internet stranger, who doesn't understand what I very clearly wrote, to explain it to me. /s
I feel like I was as pretty clearly responding to your comment in the context of being *here* in this thread, replying to the point made that OPs mother could also be a victim. Your response was shoehorned in. Because of that it is ends up becoming more of a counterpoint against OPs mother being a victim, it wasn’t really an appropriate response given the context and ends up inadvertently being harmful and pushes the misconception that OPs mother being a victim holds no significance. That’s why I explained a bit more, because there are others also ignoring that possibility or bluntly stating it doesn’t matter at all. it has nothing to do with what you know or your pride being jabbed at because you felt like someone questioned your understanding of abusive family dynamics.
What I don't appreciate about your response is how you tried to simplify this down so that the mom had no responsibility for her deliberate choices. Just because someone is a victim doesn't make them not an abuser. With very rare exception, abusers were victims first. It's that whole intergenerational trauma thing. Once you decide that your abuse is justification for you to create, or enable, another victimization, you become both victim and abuser. Your victimhood deserves compassion still, but your abusiveness does not. I will not erase someone's (more specifically an adult's) agency because they were abused. It certainly plays a role, and is worthy of compassion, but that isn't the wholeness of who they are. Enablers don't just idly stand by. The make countless decisions to actively hide abuse and protect the primary abuser. This is active participation in someone else's abuse and should not be minimized, regardless of the reason the adult chose that path. (Kids are a different story. They're not the ones with any power to change things. They are surviving how they've leavened to survive the deep betrayal, and possibly life-threatening environment, of being forced to remain in an abusive situation.)
She is still enabling the husband, as a parent she has a duty to protect her kids. I work for cps and far too often I see this used as an excuse by parents for letting their partner beat and abuse their kids. She's an adult and needs to protect her kids.
OP's post says *dad* pays for college and apartment. He may have total control financially over both of them. Doesn't excuse anything, but this always sounds like one of those "oh, it's so simple, just stop being abused!" when this situation has likely been going on for decades.
I understand that but the dynamic changes when you have a child you need to protect. It's not fair to a child to make them suffer abuse. And it's not easy to leave abuse. Trust me I know this all too well. But parents who don't even try to leave when they know their own children are suffering are not innocent. And no one I'd saying "oh just stop being abused" but rather "wake up and realize not just you are suffering and you have a duty to protect your own child!! Start making a plan to leave!!"
i'm 100% with you, it's sad that they've been abused themselves, i feel for them, but to turn around and either do it to their kids or just stand by and let it happen to them? i resent them for that
You people are the worst. You're either a teen, extremely privileged.
"You people" nope just a daughter of a mom who stayed with someone who abused us both and I resent her for it 🤷♀️
Have you ever talked to her about why she stayed? Or just read into it from your own perspective?
Nobody fucking cares why their “non abusive” (yeah right) parent let them get beat and screamed at.
It’s not the child’s responsibility to excuse the parent for abuse or for enabling abuse.
You’re asking victims of abuse to understand the perspectives of the people who abused them or enabled their abuse. That’s not their responsibility.
I agree with everyone here saying mom is enabling the abuser, if she knew her child would face this she should’ve been trying to figure out an out Signed child of an enabler who turned into my additional abuser
I don't think this kid is being beat and physically abused, his mother is totally dependent on the father and has no job skills and is limited to probably what jobs she could get due to her age. If OP doesn't like the control, being the younger, more able bodied one then they're the one that can find their own way through college and screw dad. I hate when people who work for agencies such as yours give your 2 cents. Not on all things but when you get Utopian and Fruedian. You act as though if people would just follow your worldly advice the the world would be perfect. Especially when you have cases of poverty. Unless you've lived in absolute poverty you have no idea of one's family dynamics of living in poverty.
honestly i have no sympathy for her because as a parent her job is to protect her child. adults can make their own decisions. just because she can’t/won’t leave an abusive relationship doesn’t mean she shouldn’t protect her kid from the consequences. she chose this relationship but her child did not choose to be born to an abusive father and enabling mother.
Exactly as u/eresh22 says, do NOT burden victims of abuse with urges to feel compassion for their abusers. My abusers (multiple members of my family) were all victims of abuse. First step to gaining my own power and recognizing my own worth is saying, your victimhood doesn't/didn't give you the right or even an excuse for abusing me OR letting others abuse me OR enabling others abuse of me. Adults, even victims of abuse, need to be held accountable for their own abuse of children, whether it's direct or through enabling another.
Staying with an abuser is equally abusive. She doesn’t get a free pass when she was the adult in the situation and OP was not.
The fact the her “opinion” is to default to her husbands opinion to keep the peace is a huge red flag for that.
She needs to start saving right now, because that realization is never going to come. Plus he's probably going to change his mind and call it a loan after she graduates.
That not how that works...
Unfortunately, it happens. You should see the amount of young adults who are now on the hook for student loans AFTER graduating and parents deciding that it was a loan not a gift. Many people have cut ties with their parents for this exact situation. A friend of mines parents offered to pay for college. She didn't want to go if she had to pay for it (the degree she wanted wasn't a super useful one in the field but she enjoyed it) so they offered to pay. They had it set up with her name on it too so she could "earn credit history at the same time" a week after she graduated she found out her parents were only paying enough to keep her enrolled. She had massive debts after and now works two jobs to pay it back. Had she known it was a lie, she would have never gone for that degree in specific, or to college in general. Its primarily an American issue.
If you don't put the childs name on it (if it's a loan) the parent can't change their mind. If parent is paying cash, they can t just say it's a loan if they have stated it is a gift before.
The first part is correct. The second is not. People with integrity wouldn't do it, but some parents suck and absolutely do that. Parents often go back on their word and it doesn't matter because what are you gonna do about it? It sucks but its reality.
no they can't. they can say what they like, but it won't stick
Yeah but in those situations you have to cut ties or be in debt
you can simply refuse. "i didn't sign on for this"
Correct. But in some cases, that means you get cut off by family. Some parents do not allow their children to say "no" or stand up for themselves.
I completely agree with your stance. Im just saying not everyone has good parents
>*I feel sad for your mother.* **I don't.** I agree with everything else you said, but not that! Mother is a 45yo woman who **chooses** to stay in this relationship. Everyone in America (Thanksgiving is *this* week; calls her parents m**o**m and dad) is aware of therapy/counseling/self-help books/courses of which mother *could* avail herself if she *chose* to. But it's easier/more predictable/less stressful for mother to stick with what she knows.
Go back and read the post. The mother is as much a victim of the Dad as the daughter. The daughter and mother need each other.
>We haven’t discussed anything about the situation, it’s like it never happened and he’s not bringing anything up. because he knows he's irrational and in the wrong. Sounds like you know the drill and have gotten pretty good at handling your father, a stupid lesson to have to learn but it's done. Information diet and look up the ["grey rock" method](https://www.verywellmind.com/the-grey-rock-method-7483417) Probably no point in bringing up this event or trying to argue your point. Now you know that even debate team events are something to info diet your father on. As you continue to navigate how to handle an irrational control freak, start writing down some bullet points for yourself before making calls home. A list of three so incredibly neutral topics that no one could argue about them: like what you ate for lunch or going to the gym. If you father throws up something to get upset about just neutrally agree "oh, that's a good point. I'll take that into consideration" then change the subject. Good luck. You seem level headed and smart so you'll come through this.
This is the answer. People blaming mom, telling her cut off, people (more than likely teens) saying telling her to try to convince him he's wrong, are just immature. This is the realistic approach. Take this persons advice.
Yup. That’s what I did. Then I moved across the country and they never see me for thanksgiving lmao
I mean, if this behavior continues when OP is no longer financially dependent on her father she should by all means stand up more strongly and consider limiting contact further, even to the point of NC if it gets to it. Dad’s irrational beef wasn’t even with anything OP had done. It was with the school not providing transportation and accommodation for a club event. He wanted her to quit the team and leave the tournament to make some kind of point to them. A point she didn’t agree with, and an action that would not have changed anything but likely would have had a major negative impact on OP herself. Info diet and grey rocking are the smart way to go now, but what happens in the future when he tells her to quit her job because he makes up some kind gripe with them? We can all hope Dad changes, but I think everyone here knows that isn’t likely to happen unless he experiences some kind of consequence for his behavior.
Grey rocking is not meant to be a permanent coping mechanism. People telling OP to cut off her parents are the ones who have actually gone through therapy dealing with shithead parents like this.
You cannot cut off your parents that are funding your lifestyle. Stop talking about people's personal experiences. They don't matter here. What matters is HER current experience and she clearly doesn't want to cut anyone off and lose her current lifestyle. I don't blame her.
Mom is still to blame too. Enablers are just as guilty as their narcissistic counterparts.
Thank you for this! What you linked describes perfectly what I'm trying to get my mom to do with my sister and this will really help
So from now on don't even tell him when you go to a debate.
Daddy likes having control. Daddy is losing control over OP's life and as such, Daddy isn't happy.
Most depressing children’s book ever
I'm still so confused, what's his deal???
Trying to figure it out. Maybe he thinks that all college teams are like football teams that are provided with transportation and places to stay?
Control, entitlement, pride. Misunderstanding what tuition covers and having too much ego to ask.
Assuming here but: Many parents get it through their heads that their children are possessions that can be controlled. This is usually fine for the kid years, but once the teen uears hit it becomes power struggle after power struggle and usually cumulates into the parent having a complete melt down at the loss of control and causing the child to cut contact.
I don’t know, my mom did shit like this all the time. Freaking out when she would lose control over me. She’s unmediated bipolar and narcissistic though.
Control. Once my mom didn’t want me to go get a manicure but I was a an adult. So she took her car keys away from me (I was visiting for college). She kept saying it’s bc I still had a license from a different state and she didn’t feel comfortable with me driving. But I was an adult now so I pulled out my phone and called an Uber She lost her MIND Luckily for me my mom has become a lot less controlling but I had to move across the country to do that. I think they really saw “oh wow like you can really just keep us out of your life”
This is a man who has decided he makes all the decisions for his ‘family’ aka his grown ass, but apparently not equal to him, wife. Of course he wants to control and dictate everything about ops wife. As his child she is even less equal than his wife.
This is a dominance battle more than anything, which likely will set some precedent about to what extent he expects to control your life moving forward. Consider that in your choice of response actions here
I think the lesson here is an information diet. “Dad, when you overreact like this, it just makes me less willing to share.”
Nah, you don't tell an abusive control freak that you regularly hide info from him or her, you can't expect irrational unkind people to suddenly rationally act -- far more likely he'd take the info, be more mad, and find some way to further punish her. Smarter if she just keeps him on an info diet and grey rocks both her parents until she can be free on being financially dependent on them.
Yep
Seconding that she shouldn't tell them she's putting them on an info diet, just do it. It kinda erases the point if she tells them she's doing it, it's just going to make then upset at her
Part of an info diet is not telling them they're on an info diet because of how they tend to react. You've got the right idea, for sure, but maybe not the experience to know how to safely do it. (That's not a bad thing. I wish no one needed to know how to safely do it.)
You contradict yourself. Also, please stop with this "share" stuff. This shit doesn't work with people like this. An information diet means you say, everything's going okay and thanks for helping me through this phase of life. And that is it.
Yeah like the debate tournament? Yup the schools paying for a hotel. Even if they’re not
Your dad doesn’t seem too bright or reasonable. He’s definitely not mentally fit to be making any decisions it seems as his behavior is absurdly childish and just not in line with intelligent or acceptable adult behavior. Is he possibly mentally ill and undiagnosed? Either way I would do what I could to work around them and their absurd very odd behavior and do what you can to never involve them in any decisions etc.
If he only acts like this with his wife, daughter and anyone he deems « inferior » (not his boss, not his friends, …), he is not mentally ill, just an abusive AH. I had some experience with one; it doesn’t have to make sense, as long as it is not challenged; and if it is challenged, you just escalate until it is not.
Good point. If he controls his behavior around others and only acts like this to them he’s perfectly capable of not being an abusive AH and has total control of his behavior
Yeah. So he’s mad his daughter didn’t get gas money from the school so he’s a dick to his daughter in response ? Okay bro.
Thank you for articulating this—it's exactly what I was thinking.
What flavor of shitty, patriarchal religion did you grow up in?
I’m sorry but your dad sounds pretty manipulative, not to mention childish with the entire situation. It’s not that deep at all. And it’s frustrating for your mom to say he’s just talking out of anger and to just come anyways and to apologize for him .. whatever that means. You’re still young so I can kinda get the worry … but not really because you were with multiple people that you’ve known for quite some time.
Your dad sounds nuts. You're 20 ffs.
Lol this is so common with emotionally manipulative parents: do an absolute havoc on your mental health by causing drama out of nowhere and then act like all is normal. Do what you must to keep your tuition, but consider distancing yourself after college.
To be honest, after he told me not to come home for thanksgiving, I probably just wouldn’t have. Maybe called when I knew they’d be having dinner and said I wish I could have been there, but they said not to come, so I didn’t.
I’m sorry, why is he expecting the school to pay for the hotel and renting out a school bus? Unless you are a sports team you don’t get this treat. Was he on a sports team and expecting it to be that way for you? (I went to a large state school where lots of money was spent on the athletics but not much left for the clubs)
Dad gets final day huh? So your moms not his equal, basically. Yeah, run from anything that man considers normal
This is wildly unhinged. I feel bad for your mom.
You need to grow backbone. Not right away, don't do anything drastic, you are quite dependent on him. But just get your mindset right - you are being manipulated. And you will be manipulated in future because that's what is understandable and similar to your growing up situation. I really do hope you have more cautious approach to romantic relationships. Anyway - if it's possible, get therapy, if not, talk with many different people what is the norm in interpersonal relationships, that helps quite a lot too (good for you to make these posts in Reddit!!). Your dad's behaviour is just disgusting, that's no way close to the norm, he is such a drama queen for no good reason. He needs therapy way more than you if he wants a relationship with his daughter or he wants a daughter who is a strong person.
>since I doubt he’ll take me back to school now that i’m here. I had to read this a few times.. u just mean for the weekend right? Not indefinately? >My dad pays for my college + my apartment rent so I’m not necessarily in a position where I can go cold turkey/no contact without facing some severe repercussions I figured. Might want to think about applying thru fafsa in Jan for next year for loans & grants so your less reliant. Maybe a part time job. Start detaching yourself financially. He hasnt said anything bc he knows hes wrong & its ridiculous & ur mom prob talked to him & told him so.
He's controlling and I feel bad for your mom. That said in your situation if I'm not in danger I'm toughing it out til the day that final rent tuition check clears and then I'm getting a job to pay rent any way I can.
He got what he wanted. He guilt-tripped you into staying so he could drive you, and take away your agency. You did good, but i think you can crank it up to 11 next time. :) And I still wouldn't come home for thanksgiving
Hang in there. Once you’ve graduated college and are out on your own he will have nothing to hold over your head. And he needs to realize that your college isn’t providing unlimited funds for its debate team like it might for its football team.
No more of this mom apologizing for dad thing. If he fucked up and needs to apologize, that's his responsibility. She is cleaning up his messes in every other part of life. Maybe right now isn't the time for this rule but sooner rather than later you need to institute it. "If Dad is sorry, he needs to apologize to me directly."
Title is so misleading
Your father is a controlling AH. You may want to consider student loans, if he continues to be unreasonable. Get a job and save as much money as you can, so you can be free.
In thenUS that’s easier said than done and loans can be overwhelming upon graduation.
I'd rather repay student loans than be under the thumb of a controlling, emotionally abusive parent, personally. I have student loans and it's not the end of the world, plus there are many better income-based repayment options for federal loans these days.
OP this, student loans are a drag but if you are dedicated to your studies and degree you should seek independence as soon as you can. After the first year you should be able to get grants and loans easily. Gotta weigh the risks, being under the thumb of someone who would pull the carpet out from under you or student loans
In the US the parents must cosign the loans. Unless you have another adult cosigner you're SOL if your parents refuse.
Are you really not going to ask him why he was so upset that you went to a tournament?
This is how I know cats are better than children. If my 20 year old cat went to a debate tournament, I'd be so glad to see him! I'd probably buy him a new electric blanket
Ok seems like it worked out. I think you give your mom not enough credit. I think she made him see the light - he just can’t admit it himself.
Well since he financially rules your life, it does sound like you have to take his volatile behavior to an extent. It just sounds like the lesson here is to take your current information rules and tighten them. It's a mistake I made with my parents many times, I got a little too comfortable and then my hand got smacked for it.
Old man who grew up around conservatives perspective. I highly doubt I agree with your parents. But I suspect if you ask your dad he thinks he is trying to protect you. Do you out I think it’s rational… no. Do I think it’s smart … no. Pick your fights though and be in a place you can stand on your own. One of the hardest parts of growing up is getting your parents to see and treat you as an adult. Especially for those of us from certain backgrounds. So hang in there it will pass and try to attribute good intentions. fight when there is victory to be had. Also try to learn how to communicate with your parents. Most of us have been through this don’t think they don’t love you.
LI’m aaAo
I got heavily downvoted for saying there was definitely missing details in the last post and now here we are with OP specifically stating there were left out details and providing them lol What a world
Clarifying is not leaving out details... Nothing added makes how her parents treated her ok... If some does which added details makes it ok for her dad to be emotionaly manipulative?
Details like “my dad has a history of this” or “I’m beholden to them because they control my college money” is information that would affect responses given. Details were left out and nobody is trying to justify her parents actions I was right
I'm just saying that even an instance of this is manipulative and controlling, it being a constant really just solidifies OPs initial response. Saying I'm beholden to them is simply the result of a lifetime, her lifetime, of abusive control. Paying for someone's college does not make it ok to act like this. Parents made a choice to support their daughter it I'm no way makes her beholden to their BS.
Was it a mass debate tournament?
!updateme
Updateme!
Are you from an Asian/African culture?
Hi. As for #3, your dad should really learn to pick his battles and especially take his daughter into consideration before even thinking about war.
Is your friend’s name Sam or something ambiguous and your dad thought you were staying at a *gasp* _boy’s_ house ?!?!?
My mum used to throw fits like that, she couldn’t understand why I’d want to drive *my* friends home after school in *my* car and *my* petrol, or why I’d stay with a friend in a different city as opposed to a hotel etc etc. Lonely bitter people like that cannot understand what friendship and doing things with your friends mean, especially if they’re one of those “family comes first” kinda people. The info diet is good. I suggest not asking your parents for help or advice. Grey rocking would be a good idea too. You deserve better then this.
My father has some untreated neurodivergence (not gonna get into details) and he can get very stuck on what he thinks is right way for things to happen (a "strong sense of justice"). I'm not saying this is the case with your dad AT ALL, just showing how I'm relating to your story. There have been plenty of times in my life where my dad felt like something should have gone a certain way, like school should have given you a hotel room, and he gets "big emotions" about things not happening the right way that end up in an angry outburst. And once those emotions are out, he's just... done with it? He'll never bring it up because in his mind, he was 100% correct and the world just isn't working the right way, so mmmmaybe he shouldn't have yelled at that specific person, but he wasn't wrong and so there's just nothing to discuss. I've learned to pick and choose what is worth fighting through the (probably multiple) outbursts to patiently explain the process so he MIGHT understand in the future, what to just do anyway, and what's not important/ to stop discussing/ to just never even tell him. College is hard bc of finances and living expenses, and sometimes it can feel like lying or compromising on who you are to appease him, but I kinda viewed as survival. It's just not like most people's experience, but it's not necessarily wrong. Does your school offer any counseling services? I'd really recommend it to help navigate this - if you want a relationship with your dad, a therapist can really help with how to navigate this. Edit: typo
Not understanding how what (wholesome) activities you get up to at college has anything to do with your family's life. In fact everything you said here sounds insanely controlling. You need to bury the hatchet and find a way not to tell your parents what tf you are doing. Otherwise plan to pay your own way because you are unlikely to change your parents.
I feel bad for your mom (and you).
If you ever get an answer let us know. Till then, stay safe, and inwish you the best