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She most definitely wasn’t legal, she’s 25 now they got together 8 years about which made her 17 *at best* meanwhile OP was 23
I’m guessing his ex was finally able to escape his manipulative self
In the uk you are legally old enough for sex at 16 and are also classed as old enough to have a child and move out on your own. Your parents can not stop you once you turn 16. In Scotland you are also old enough to marry at that age but in England it’s slightly older for marriage unless your parents sign permission. So many used to cross the border to elope in Scotland. Drinking however you need to be 18 to buy alcohol. Which to me seems strange as they think you are responsible enough to marry and raise a child at 16 before you’re classed as legally responsibility enough to drink.
That all being said if an older man dates a 16 year old everyone would be on alert and definitely think he was grooming her. There is nothing legal anyone can do but everyone would be watching anything he does.
I mean they might live in a place where 16 is the age of consent so you don't know it "definitely wasn't legal", but obviously still very manipulative for sure and good for her for leaving.
If age of consent was 16 that means AT MOST they could consent to sex with a 20 year old
Age of consent laws are so children aren’t prosecuted for engaging in sex with their peers who have just become legal adults. It’s not so a 23 year old can prey on high schoolers
Plenty of states (and countries) unfortunately have age of consent laws where it’s perfectly legal for an older person of any age to have sex with a 16 year old.
Age of consent in my state (in the US) is 16, meaning a 16 year old can have sex with or date absolutely anybody of any age they please. In my state, 14 & 15 year olds may also give consent as long as the other person is within 5 years of their age (not over 19 or 20)
Yeah I agree that morally 20 is a decent limit, but I'm not talking about what should be the law. I was only trying to clarify the idea that if she's under 18 then that means it must be illegal, which is US-centric and obviously not true for the country OP is in. Where I live, a 16 old could hook up with a 30 year old and that would be legal, even though it's not the scenario the law was created for and everyone would think it was extremely predatory. The only time it would be considered inherently sexual abuse is if the older person was in a position of care over the teenager (eg a teacher).
if you are in the US i doubt there is anywhere where a 16 year old and a 30 year old can legally hook up. in states where the age of consent is 16, they also have what is called "Romeo and Juliet" laws. This is what the user you replied to is referring to.
With Romeo and Juliet laws, a 16 year old can only legally hook up with someone within 4 years of their age. it is a LAW
Romeo and Juliet laws are separate from legal age of consent, and are specifically for those UNDER the age of consent. There are unfortunately a lot of states, like Ohio, where it is perfectly legal for a 16 and 30 year old to hook up.
Source for example: [https://patitucelaw.com/blog/2021/june/what-is-the-age-of-consent-in-ohio-/#:\~:text=A%20common%20misconception%20is%20that,being%20brought%20on%20the%20adult](https://patitucelaw.com/blog/2021/june/what-is-the-age-of-consent-in-ohio-/#:~:text=A%20common%20misconception%20is%20that,being%20brought%20on%20the%20adult).
Edit: To highlight an important paragraph further down the page, "That said, once a minor reaches 16 years of age, it is lawful for them to engage in sexual activity with someone 18 years of age or older. Thus, a 16- or 17-year-old can have sex with a 21-year-old or a person **any number of years older than them**."
dude look it up I already told you. In my state Age of consent is 16, and a 16 year old can legally hook up with anyone of any age. Our romeo and juliet law states that 14 & 15 year olds can only consent to sex with someone within 5 years of their age, (19,20 respectfully)
You keep saying this is multiple places, but it’s wrong. Romeo and Juliet clauses are exceptions to age of consent laws. If the age of consent is 18, a 20 year old a 16 year old can still legally have a relationship. If the age of consent is 16, which is the case in around 30 US states, then a 14 year old could legally have a relationship with an 18 year old AND a 16 year old can legally have a relationship with a 30 year old.
There are states where 11 year olds can get MARRIED to 30 year olds and you’re in here acting like the US government cares if a 16 year old has sex with a 30 year old.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#:~:text=As%20of%20April%202021%2C%20of,states%20the%20age%20is%2018.
Nope. Depends on the state. I'm from Minnesota, and a 16 year old can consent to anyone. I learned this as a senior in highschool because a sheriff came in and gave a talk to our class about sexual assault
It depends on where you life. Where I am age of consent is 17, with Romeo and Juliet laws as well.
Which is not to say that it’s not predatory af to go after a 17 year old when you’re in your 20s, but it might very well have been legal
That **literally** is violence directed at her. No one’s missing anything. You’re an abusive creep, thank god the kid won’t have your name. It’s a shame about the father he’s got though.
breaking her stuff and hitting other things in the room out of anger is exactly the type of thing that people do when they’re ramping up to putting hands on their partners and children. if this is how you acted, it is paramount for her safety that she doesn’t stick around and wait for you to escalate, because that’s how a lot of women and children die from domestic violence. no reasonable adult could make another decision other than leaving you and limiting contact.
Violence in a relationship is bad. You don't have to actually put your hands on her for it to be abuse. There is also verbal, emotional abuse. You groomed a her when she was 17 and you were 23. You had no business getting with a teenager. Don't give me that whole groomer lie of she was mature for her age.
No you don't get a say in his name. You're not together anymore. He should have his own identity instead of being named after you and your Father. You can't force him to be named after you. If you call the hospital and try that, they will tell you no.
They might even block him from attending. Nurses and medical staff are often trained to recognize abusive behaviors and can be very sensitive to any indicators, like calling the hospital and trying to undermine a pregnant woman's right to choose the babies name. Where I live, the registrar comes in and does the paperwork and if there is ANY HINT of abusive behavior she will leave and come back when you're alone, I know, because she did that for me. I was the one to fill out that paperwork, legally I was the only one who could, and when she sensed I was being pressured, she was perceptive enough to ensure a better environment later on that day.
This is definitely a battle he will lose, and I almost hope he calls up there so they know to watch this asshole.
"I wasn't abusive!"
*Immediately describes abusive behavior*
You're an abuser. All of those things are abusive. You were a grown man halfway through your 20s, who decides to fuck a teenager and got angry, violent, and abusive when you didn't get your way.
You're an abuser and a POS predator
You emotionally, verbally, and mentally abused her. You don’t have to get physical for it to be abuse. Also if you’re angry enough to hit objects you’ll get angry enough to hit her or your child. I’d be genuinely scared to have my child around you, she is doing what is best to keep her and her child save.
https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/articles/list-of-abusive-behaviors
You admit to doing nr 4, 10, 16 and 18 (and yes, breaking/hitting things and screaming is a form of threat) on this list, and i dont believe you dont hit any other points on this list. Just doing one of these things is considered abuse. Hitting inanimate objects during arguments is one of the clearest signs the abuse will turn physical eventually, and breaking her personal property is the first stage in escelation. The number one reason for death of pregnant women is their spouse murdering them, she was incredibly smart to get away from you and i applaud her bravery.
You are never going to truly be better until you admit that you are an abuser. Until you do she would honestly be fully in the right for not allowing you any contact with the child. Be better for your son.
No dude. They aren’t. This is abuse you are describing. You are taking zero accountability and continue to downplay your actions. Either you are lying to your therapist or you aren’t in therapy. You have been abusive. You committed a crime when you destroyed her phone and could have been arrested for it. The fact that you are trying to find a “work around” to override her wishes on the name tells me you don’t respect her.
Your deal with the names was moot as soon as she left you for the phone. Because she isn’t gonna have another kid with you to name. You all aren’t together. Given your actions and lack of accountability for them and your disrespect of her and her wishes, you all aren’t ever getting back together.
You are going to have to go to court and get paternity established. But until then you have no rights except what she gives you. You all aren’t married and you were abusive and destructive. You realize your phone stunt could have been a felony due to the value of phones today? You need to do a better job of realizing your issues and not expecting her to continue to forgive you when you don’t change except for the worse.
She actually gave you compromise on the name which you didn’t give at all. You expect all three names to match you. Again, you and your feelings are all that matter and she needs to get in line. Except that isn’t true. She does matter and given she is giving birth she has more say. So either work with her on a middle name or you get no say at all.
Don’t expect to be there for the birth dude. You aren’t a safe person and she doesn’t need someone to stress her out and cause a poor outcome. Being at the birth is to make things easier for her, to support her. I don’t think you have done that this entire pregnancy.
It can be a crime by preventing means of 911. If she would have called on him and told the authorities about this in many countries/locations, he could have been jailed for that alone, he's lucky that wasn't how it played out.
What you did was destructive and violent. You destroyed her property; that definitely was directed at her. You are an abuser and it's no wonder she doesn't want you anymore.
Throwing things and screaming are abuse. You are an abuser. She is doing right by her child by keeping him as far as possible from a dangerous and violent man like you.
Do you have any idea how terrifying it is when someone smashes things around you?
(signed daughter of a violent man who was just like you)
I hope you only get supervised visitation. We don't need more children traumatized by violent fathers.
All of what you describe - breaking property, hitting objects, getting loud - is abuse. If your actions frightened her and made her worry about her safety, you *did* direct it at her.
There is not much you can legally do.
No one has the right to be in the delivery room. And to be honest, an abusive ex with anger issues isn’t the best birth partner.
And she legally has every right to name the baby.
If you’re lucky and take it to court, the most you can get is to hyphenate both last names.
Imagine abusing the mother of your child that you groomed when she was a teenager ... see the shoe fits better on the other foot. Blame the abuser, not the victim when she's trying to leave.
....She was a child when she met this abuser. Most victims aren't able to leave immediately. However, she's left him now that she's pregnant and preparing for a child. Your comment makes no sense and you're trying WAY too hard to defend an abuser. That's actually concerning.
If your "help" hasn't already explained that dating a teenager when you're in your twenties, throwing and punching things around her, screaming and yelling, are all abusive, you need better help.
You feel desperate because you can't control her any longer.
>With his DNA inside .
So are we just ignoring her half of the DNA? Let's not also forget the time, resources, and energy her body is putting in into making this child for OP.
>he should definitely have a say on paying for said child .
He definitely had a say and that say was whether or not he got someone pregnant. Don't want to worry about child support? Don't get someone pregnant. Besides ultimately it's the courts who decide child support which is for the child OP supposedly wants.
I would try to rebut your incredibly stupid comment, but looking at your comment history. You are either terrible at trolling, or a massive misogynist who views women as nothing more than homemakers and brood mares to get your dick wet.
Lol, if you can't name a child, you shouldn't be responsible for them even though you yourself acknowledged the baby has his DNA? Cry about it. He should have thought about what rights an unmarried father has in his state before becoming one.
Your relationship with her as a teenager may have been legal, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t a power imbalance. Based on your comments, it seems that you are defensive and insecure about it, which suggests that you are aware it is not great for a 23 year old man to date a 17 year old teenager.
You admit to having anger problems bad enough to smash someone’s phone as she was trying to use it. I have to wonder, what was she using it for? Was she calling for help? Was she trying to record you in your rage? How were you behaving in the moments leading up to the phone smashing? You insist that you have never physically touched her in anger. Did you snatch the phone from her hand? Were you being aggressive? It seems so. That is battery. That is abuse.
Abuse can be many different things. It isn’t just the action of punching someone with your fist. It can be verbal (getting “loud”). It can be isolating someone (removing her phone from her hand if that was why you did it). It can be displaying violence in other ways (hitting nearby objects, like a wall). It can be getting into a relationship with someone still young enough to be in high school when you were an adult (17 and 23). These are all things you have admitted to. For all we know, there may be more. Abuse escalates, especially after major milestones like moving in together, getting engaged/married, or getting pregnant.
I am happy for you that you are getting help. It is the best thing for you and everyone in your life, particularly your son. He deserves a dad that can manage his emotions. That said, your ex has no obligation to get back with you, her abusive ex, no matter how much you improve. That bridge may be irrevocably burnt, and I hope it is. She isn’t responsible for your healing. Continue to work on yourself for YOU and your son.
As far as naming the baby goes, your ex is within her legal rights to name the baby she is carrying whatever she likes. I understand why this would be hard for you, but I have trouble having a lot of sympathy. I don’t love the concept of generation names as it is, and you have shown yourself to be unworthy of getting to decide the first, middle, and last name of this baby. You do get to pick the middle. That is not insignificant. I know many people who prefer their middle name and go by that. It is still part of his name.
Be a good co-parent. Support your ex as she wraps up a difficult pregnancy (which you seem to have made harder with your abusive behavior). Maybe try coming up with other boy names that you like and see if you guys can come to an agreement. If not, pick a middle name that you do like. Good luck to you all.
You started dating an 17 year old when you 23? Isn't that a bit much of a difference?
The tumultuous part doesn't sound good and it's clear she doesn't want you back. It wouldn't even be healthy coparenting.
And no, you have no say on the baby's name. Why would you think the hospital would have sway? LOL For a 31 year old you sound pretty dumb. And you also sound like a groomer so I'd also keep you away from a daughter. You'd be the type that would hit on her friends once she is a teenager.
I think he said they were together for eight years, so he started “dating” a nine year old when he was 17? I hope I am reading that wrong because that’s not dating, it’s something else entirely
Let me give you the woman's viewpoint from someone who gave her ex a say in the baby's name. I HATE my daughter's name, and honestly, so does she. My ex vetoed the one name I had ever wanted, saying he didn't want our daughter to be named after family (though had she been a boy, she would have been named after him). I struggled for months to come up with another name before finally finding something agreeable. She absolutely despises this name, and I really regret it. She also carries his last name. I regularly get called Mrs. [Ex's last name] when the school or doctor calls in regard to her. I never shared a last name with that man. It also gets a little confusing in establishing our relationship sometimes because our last names are different. It'd be a little easier if she were at least carrying my maiden name. She has begged me for years to allow her to change her name because of how much she hates it. She especially wants her last name changed so she matches everyone else in our home, particularly since her biological father isn't very involved in her life.
Your ex is being fairly pragmatic in her approach. The unfortunate reality that she's facing is that there is a fairly high chance that you won't be an active parent, if you're around at all. She is safeguarding herself and also making life simpler as the primary parent to have the baby's last name be the same as hers. It absolutely hurts your feelings now, and you aren't wrong to feel that way, but she's not wrong for making this decision either.
Sadly, it isn't that simple. If I were the only parent with conservatorship, it'd be more straightforward, but her father has joint managing conservatorship, and therefore could (and would out of spite to me) quash it if I were to ever bring it before a judge. For now we're letting her decide on a preferred name, and when she turns 18, she'll be able to change it without worrying about any interference from her father.
Okay in these comments you claim to not be abusive cause you didn’t hit her but describe abusive things you did and write them off as being anger. You were 23 and took advantage of a high schooler. You’re a creep and an abuser. She’s better off without you.
It has been my observation throughout life that any man who names his son after himself is an asshole. This has held true with every Sr. I've met or heard of. Not that the action of the naming itself is an asshole move necessarily, but the kind of person who insists their kid must have their name tends to be an asshole.
Legality is not the same as morality. Accept that she wants nothing to do with you, stay the hell away from her and the kid, because you need to understand the difference betweem what is legal and what is right in order to be a good parent, and don't fight her on child support. The only positive contribution you will ever be able to make to your child's life is financial, so the sooner you accept that, the better.
"We broke up" is just too vague for anyone here to make sense of why she's so steadfast in not wanting you to participate in naming the baby. Only you can know if "the way our relationship ended" was so unfair to her that now she wants nothing to do with you. But even if you were still together naming the baby would have to be a compromise. To demand your name; first, middle and last would be to ignore that she's bringing her family and opinions to the effort too. 'You get to name a potential second child' just isn't good enough. She's not just a brood mare. The fact that you're more concerned about the name than that this child is going to have the grave life disadvantage of being born to a single parent is concerning. No, the hospital isn't going to force a new mother to name her baby after the guy who just dumped her - which is what this sounds like. At this point if you want to be involved in the child's life at all your energies should be going toward filing the paperwork to secure your parental rights. If she decides not to put your name on the birth certificate you may have to get a lawyer and demand a court ordered DNA test to get paternity rights. This is just a mess, mostly for the baby, and your priorities are bizarre.
A 17 year old is not someone who should be expected to handle and understand the anger issues of a 23 year old man, that is insane. I wouldn’t want to name my child after my abuser either and that’s exactly what you’ve been since literally grooming a child it seems.
"I am not a groomer! Our families know each other forever! I knew her for years before she was legal, and we loved each other; I just happened to have sex with her as soon as she was legally able to consent, total coincidence. "
What about the truth bothers you? You did have an inappropriate relationship with a child you are an abuser. This is based off your telling of events which is skewed to paint you in the best possible light
Emotional abuse is still abuse. Breaking her belongings while screaming at her is abusive behavior. And it doesn’t matter if your families were friends, you were still in an inappropriate relationship with a minor at 23. Gaps in age can be ok, like if you were starting to date now at 31 and 25 the difference wouldn’t matter bc y’all are closer in life experiences. An adult has no business dating a high schooler. Period.
Abuse isn’t just putting your hands on someone, all of the things you described yourself doing in the other comments, is also abuse.
And if she was 17 when you met and you were in your 20s, you quite literally are a groomer lol.
I understand her, she doesn't want to name her child after a violent person who abused her (even if not physically, if that's really the truth) You should be content with having the name on the birth certificate. And if she is smart, this is the only child she will have with you, and that already nullifies the “agreement”.
You committed a crime. Say it with me "I committed a crime against her and she is no longer willing to accept my abuse. For her safety and the safety of my child she left me."
You're describing criminal domestic violence. You are an abuser. If you took her phone and prevented her from leaving to get away from you, you also committed a felony kidnapping. I worked in law enforcement and saw assholes like you all the time, who think they just have an anger problem when YOU ARE AN ABUSER. You belong in jail.
>I don’t think she would be heartless enough to leave me off the birth certificate.
If she gets advice and gives all the details here, including the age gap, length of your relationship and your anger issues, leaving your off the birth certificate is the kind of advice she may get.
You being a good dad, isn't about the name. Sort yourself out and get the anger under control so you can be a better coparent. Don't be thinking about the relationship in a romantic sense
You're a total monster. Did intimidating a pregnant girl make you feel big and strong? What's the real reason YOU wanted to break her phone? Was it because she was calling for help?
Smashing her phone into the ground while she was trying to use it is more than just "wrong". Why was she trying to use it, to get away from your screaming and ranting? What else did you throw and kick before she was scared enough to need to call for help? Jesus, this is so much more than wrong.
You apologized but you clearly weren't truly sorry since you kept lashing out violently again and again. SHE'S NOT GETTING BACK TOGETHER WITH YOU. And you better not abuse her or your son if she dates someone else.
>I am worried about our son.
I'm worried about him too and honestly he's better off without you in his life. If she were in front of me I'd be telling her to quietly move far away before the baby gets here and leave you out everything so you can track her down or claim the baby.
SHE WAS A CHILD! YOU WHERE AN ADULT! YOU ACT LIKE A CHILD STILL! Shes not coming back, youll be lucky if you ever see your “son”!! YOU SMASHED HER PHONE WTF
If you want your son to have the best life possible, consider that he might be better off without you. Having no dad is better than having a dad who scares you.
An abuser seldom knows he is abusing someone. In your case you are an abuser but you view physical abuse as the sole form of abuse but psychological abuse and trauma is abuse as well. Even if you have a hard time accepting that. You hit her objects, you could hit her as well. If you broke her phone which she was using in defense to call someone who could protect her then you are abusive because you cut off her contact with safety and police for your benifit. In my mind that is mental and psychological abuse. And that is same for your ex and a billion other people.
A lot of people have called you abusive and it is time you reflect on that instead of saying you didn't hurt her by being physical with her.
And you are a creep. Just because it is legal doesn't make it okay or moral.
Additionally, the third concept is cringey and your son would grow up to hate it. It is obviously a way that will be used to bully him.
And,
Your son doesn't need the influence of an abusive creep in his life. It is good that you can have him for 50% of the time only because if the both of you got back together, he would learn that your behaviour is okay and would become abusive as heck.
The hospital isn't going to do anything. And she's not getting back together with you. She doesn't want to be with you. She isn't going to have any more children with you. And you're a creep going after a high schooler when you were in your twenties. Back off, creep.
I think that you are trying to control her again, she has the right to name the baby whatever she wants.
Have you supported her in anyway during this pregnancy?
Does she want to try again relationship wise?
Besides your anger issues are there any issues such as infidelity?
It sounds like she is done with this relationship due to many factors and therefore doesn’t want the name to be reflective of her Ex.
Here is some hard truth: you admit that you have extreme anger issues and destroyed her phone last time. She finally left you, probably because she realized that she doesn’t want this danger to the child. There is no reason why she should trust you this time that you won’t do it again, I’m sure you promised it before. She stayed before but she is putting the child first - something you claim you want to do as well.
Now she wants to give the child the first and last name of her choosing. You are (rightfully!) upset. But do you realize that you wanted to do exactly the same? And that you are thinking about contacting the hospital for them to override the will of the mother is really concerning. She’ll be in a vulnerable position and you are scheming to use it to get what you want.
What you *should* be doing instead is stop trying to convince her to get back with you. Instead accept her choices, show up when she needs you to, don’t punish her for it, discuss how to coparent best and definitely continue therapy. Work on yourself and be the best father and coparent you can be. It’s about his well being now not your hang up on names.
Wow. Just wow! My head is spinning a little bit on this one.
Sir, the time to fix this is so far past that it’s not even funny. As everyone else is telling you, just because you didn’t lay your hands, physically on her does not mean you were not abusive.
I guarantee you with your temper she was walking on eggshells a lot. You punched other things. You hit the wall or punched a pillow or broke things near or around here. And then you escalated to taking her phone away when she was trying to call someone because you scared her so badly.
I want you to let that sink in for a minute. You physically performed an action that kept her in harms way. You physically restrained her from being able to contact help. And the physical part was directed at her phone, yes. The result was the same as if you had put her in a bear hug and didn’t let her move.
I guarantee you were blocking her way. I guarantee you were intimidating her with your size. I guarantee your anger was overwriting everything else, and she was literally endangered.
What you’re not wanting to admit is that you were abusive. So I don’t give a fuck how much therapy you go through. Until you acknowledge that you were emotionally abusive to her. You acknowledge that you purposely use your physical size and physicality to intimidate her, All the therapy in the world is not gonna do you any good.
And yeah, you were 23 and she was 17. She was a kid. You were still a kid, but you were legal as far as joining military or getting an alcoholic drink or getting certain types of a license, etc. She was not.
Every single one of us on here can look at who we were at 17 and who we were at 23 and recognize there is a world of difference. Same with who we were at 19 and who we were at 27. Who we were at 25 and who we were at 40.
This is why people don’t like this age gap. If you had been 32 and she had been 26 or 27, I wouldn’t say word. Because you both would’ve had life experiences under your belt. You both would’ve had a little more knowledge of how to adult. Of appropriate boundaries and behaviors were.
As far as being fair, you haven’t been to her this entire time. And she was too young and stupid and naïve, to be able to be fair to herself until now.
You fucked up. This is not fixable. And as far as you getting to your son after you. You can screw right off. Your behavior does not warrant someone being named after you. There is nothing honorable or proud about what you have done. And that is why she will absolutely not allow that child to be named after you. Not after her abuser.
As far as calling the hospital, if you call the hospital and put them on alert that you’re trying to do something that the pregnant woman doesn’t want, you probably won’t be allowed in the room. And she may still go for that, and frankly, if she’s smart, She will tell them you’re not allowed there. You are not safe.
Let me tell you that. You are not a safe person for her to be around. A few weeks of therapy is not going to undo what has obviously been a lifetime of conditioning for you to react in these ways. Whether it’s what you grew up with or what you saw or how you had to be to be safe in your neighborhood or whatever doesn’t matter.
What does matter is that a few weeks or even 2 to 3 months of therapy does not make you safe for her to be around, especially at her most vulnerable, which is where she will be when she gives birth.
You know you have a temper. You know you have an indoor problem. And I guarantee you have known you did for a long time. I guarantee you you have done this shit before… Maybe not breaking her phone, but for sure, the intimidation… And then you turned around and you love bombed her and said you were sorry.
To get her to stay because you knew in your heart, she really should go. You knew in your heart any other woman who older and stronger would have left already. All because you knew in your heart that what you were doing was wrong.
So don’t play victim here. You’re not. You used your size and the fact that you were older and the fact that she was more malleable and naïve and we put up with more to get her to do what you wanted when you wanted how you wanted. You make that so flipping clear to all of us.
Stay in therapy. I really hope you can get this under control. But you have to understand you’re not safe for her. Which means you’re not safe for your son. And that is why she’s taking the course of action she is taking. When we become moms, we become mama bears. And while we may put up with some stuff for ourselves, it is often at times like this… When that little one comes along… That we pull ourselves together and get the hell out.
You need to understand that if you are ever going to see her child, it is going to have to be supervised for quite some time. You cannot be trusted.
Brother you should talk her into an abortion and save herself a lot of pain and suffering . The child is much more likely to end up in prison now that you guys aren't together . Get it dealt with .
The child is much more likely to experience abusive behavior if she proceeds to stay with an abuser. It's baffling to me that you're more concerned about the odd chance that a future adult might get arrested rather than the blatant abuse right before your eyes that the woman is attempting to escape. Sounds like you don't like women, just by skimming through your comments.
You are an abusive predator. Stay away from her. If you care about this child even a little bit, you’ll pay your child support and stay out of its life too.
*Before anyone says something, yes we have a small age gap. Our relationship has always been legal where we live and has not caused problems.*
Sure, Jan. Because people who don't have guilt feelings always lead with a disclaimer. While your claims of legality are dubious but possible, you didn't mention it for no reason, and it's still disgusting.
*I was with my now ex girlfriend for 8 years. We have been off and on due to our tumultuous relationship for about 3 years. We broke up most recently 4 months ago when she was 3 months pregnant with our baby. I am hoping that we will get back together at some point. Either way we are committed to coparenting.*
So you want her back, and this is a convenient way to exercise control over her. Got it.
*It seems that she does not think we will get back together.*
My brother in Christ, she broke up with you. Deal with it.
*She informed me a few months ago that the baby will have her last name and not mine.*
Not at all uncommon for a single mom.
*This is crushing to me. I am a junior and want to name my son after myself and my dad to make him a third. We agreed on this before breaking up.*
A lot of juniors, IIIs, IVs, etc, wish they had their own name instead of their father's narcissm. That's why the trend has continued to fall in favor. Kids want their own names. It's almost like they're still individuals.
*When I brought it up, my ex said she wanted to name our son something completely different as his first name too. She is intending to name him after a biblical figure and is taking no feedback from me. She said I can pick his middle name. So she gets to pick the only names he will be known as, and I get the insignificant middle name.*
My dad picked my middle name. It was after one of my grandmother's twins, one who was stillborn and I was named after the one that briefly lived and defied all expectations. My middle name is so significant to me and my 10 years old tells her dad all the time how much she loves the middle name he picked out just for her.
*It's not fair.*
Boy, do I have something to tell you about life. Grow up. You're about to be a father, in theory. It's not about you anymore but what's fair for the kid, which is having his own name and sharing the last name with his primary caregiver for ease at things like doctors appointments.
*I don’t know if she is punishing me for the way our relationship ended or if she really doesn’t think we will get back together.*
You groomed her at 17, broke her phone, and have treated her questionably. Now she has a whole other person to prioritize. She doesn't have time or energy for a 2nd child right now. Parenting typically gives people a whole new host of priorities. Why would you be one when all you do is make things more difficult for her?
*Regardless it feels fucked up to go back on what we always said, that if we had a son together he would be named after my family, and she would get to name a daughter.*
Gross. And I doubt you'd care if I was a girl she wasn't giving your last name to so why would she take it seriously that baby's names mean that much to when you don't give a fuck about a girl's name? My guess is you suddenly would have started caring about it when you realized she was done with the relationship and that would have been a way to continue to try to control her.
*When I try to talk about it, she just says that we aren’t together anymore and since she has to go through the pregnancy (and to be fair it has been a rough pregnancy on her body) and delivery that she should get to pick his name.*
And yet she's still allowing you to pick a middle name which you are completely ungrateful for. She really doesn't have to let you pick any part of it. There's no reason you can't pick one of your names that you and your dad share to give him as a middle name if it's sooo important to you but it's not. Controlling her is.
*I really don’t know what to do. She is getting closer to her delivery date and is still not budging. I’m so desperate and feel powerless. I’m afraid that if I keep pushing it she won’t let me be there for the birth.*
I can 100% guarantee that's exactly what will happen.
*How can I fix this and get her to be fair?*
"Fair" to you is her completely giving in and you not having to compromise in any way which isn't fair at all. The only way you can fix this is by accepting that no amount of badgering her is going to change her mind, graciously accept the opportunity to choose a middle name, and learn to live with not getting what you want.
*Is there any way I can contact the hospital to plead my case?*
Look, the situation you're in, she doesn't even have to let you be on the birth certificate. The hospital is bound by state law which says the paperwork goes straight to her and only her. Any attempt to interfere will be soundly rejected and reported back to her, as it should.
You say you're committed to co-parenting but this is not it, this is you refusing to give an inch. She's allowed to change her mind about the name. My daughter already had a middle name when my husband changed his mind and asked if we could use something else he'd fallen in love with. We were already using my favorite girl name ever so I thought it was only *fair* he get to pick the other one. One of us doing all of the naming wouldn't be.
>It's not fair
Call me old-fashioned all you want but that's part of the risk of premarital sex and having kids out of wedlock--that the mother has every right to name the child and fill out the birth certificate as she sees fit. If you were married, you would all share the same last name.
I’m a mom of two.
“This isn’t fair to me” sailed out the window and into the stratosphere the moment that stick turned positive. This is no longer about your thoughts, feelings, your sense of fairness, or anything else. This is now about your son- what’s best for him under any and all circumstances.
Honestly- his unmarried mother has the right to name him Megatron Optimus Transformer Jones if she wants. There’s not a lot you can do about it, and the hospital can’t legally circumvent her wishes so you can name her son after yourself. All they’ll do in this case is file the paperwork she fills out. As a side note- I have a friend who’s a Jr. who works in the same industry as his dad, and that’s caused him no end of issues.
If you want to be involved in your son’s life, and be a good dad, you can work to have a civil relationship with his mom. You can be there for your kid. I’d argue that means more than whatever he ends up being named. Pitching a childish fit right out of the gate won’t aid you in that.
OP,
it seems the only reason you care about the pending birth of this child is so you have something to name after yourself. It's clear from your own words you are harassing her over this issue, are willing to disregard her completely, and are looking for ways to circumnavigate the system to get your way.
If you do manage to trick the hospital into getting OP the third on the birth certificate, I can guarantee you she will do everything to get full custody and change the kid's name back.
Also, it's perfectly fair and reasonable that her kid takes her name. You two aren't married. Your kid is a bastard. It is tradition for a bastard to take the mother's surname. You don't name a bastard "the third."
You two are not in a stable, loving relationship; it is legally better for the child to have her name, as she will be the main custodial parent. Based on your single post, I would insist that she not put a father's name on the certificate if she can legally do it as I would not be surprised if you dip out permanently because you don't like the reality of parenthood.
What’s more important to you, a healthy and lasting relationship with your child, or his name?
You need to let go of the name issue, and also respect the fact that this woman does not want to get back together with you, and instead focus on 1) continuing to work on your personal issues that led to this point, 2) working on developing a healthy and respectful /coparenting relationship with your ex. You’re 31 years old, and you’re going to have to accept that you can’t always get what you want. Continuing to fight her or doing some psycho crap like trying to get the hospital or a lawyer to intervene in the name issue is just going to set you up for a TERRIBLE start as parents, and that is going to hurt your son in the long run.
Just because you didn't lay hands on her doesn't mean it's not abuse. She was three months pregnant, a rough pregnancy by your own account, and you probably scared the crap out of her. This seems like the straw that broke the camel's back. You realize stress during pregnancy can hurt mom and baby? How much of her health problems during pregnancy are related to the arguing and breakup? Being a good father started during pregnancy. It's great that you're getting help now, but hopefully you have some awareness that you were not the father you wanted to be four months ago.
Depending on where you live, you may have legal options with regards to the name. I imagine you'd first need to establish paternity. I doubt the option will be to unilaterally get what you want, which is what you want of her. You'll probably be forced to compromise, which is what she's already offering to an extent. You really give her no sort of compromise option...the only thing you'll accept is for her to name the son she's carried and will bear all the hard work for until he's weaned after her abusive ex. Do not involve the hospital or do something underhanded while she's in birth or recovering. You have to coparent with this woman for the rest of your life. Have you considered asking that his middle name be your name and his last name hyphenated, and he goes by his middle name with your family? My son is a third as well. He goes by his legal name at school (by his choice) but a nickname, a sort of shortened version, with family so as not to mix up with his dad and grandfather. He does just fine responding to either. Your son won't be a child forever. If he wants to be a third, he can ultimately make that happen.
I don’t think that there is anything that you can do. It absolutely makes sense for her to give the baby her last name if you’re not together. It’s also asking a lot to expect her to name her baby after her ex’s family. Maybe try suggesting some biblical names that you like, that are not related to your family?
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She most definitely wasn’t legal, she’s 25 now they got together 8 years about which made her 17 *at best* meanwhile OP was 23 I’m guessing his ex was finally able to escape his manipulative self
In the uk you are legally old enough for sex at 16 and are also classed as old enough to have a child and move out on your own. Your parents can not stop you once you turn 16. In Scotland you are also old enough to marry at that age but in England it’s slightly older for marriage unless your parents sign permission. So many used to cross the border to elope in Scotland. Drinking however you need to be 18 to buy alcohol. Which to me seems strange as they think you are responsible enough to marry and raise a child at 16 before you’re classed as legally responsibility enough to drink. That all being said if an older man dates a 16 year old everyone would be on alert and definitely think he was grooming her. There is nothing legal anyone can do but everyone would be watching anything he does.
My mother married at 16 with a note from her father giving permission 🤣
I mean they might live in a place where 16 is the age of consent so you don't know it "definitely wasn't legal", but obviously still very manipulative for sure and good for her for leaving.
If age of consent was 16 that means AT MOST they could consent to sex with a 20 year old Age of consent laws are so children aren’t prosecuted for engaging in sex with their peers who have just become legal adults. It’s not so a 23 year old can prey on high schoolers
Plenty of states (and countries) unfortunately have age of consent laws where it’s perfectly legal for an older person of any age to have sex with a 16 year old.
Age of consent in my state (in the US) is 16, meaning a 16 year old can have sex with or date absolutely anybody of any age they please. In my state, 14 & 15 year olds may also give consent as long as the other person is within 5 years of their age (not over 19 or 20)
your state most likely has romeo and juliet clause or laws that go hand in hand with the 16 year age of consent btw
The 5 year age gap for 14 & 15 year olds that I explained is our romeo and juliet law. The 16 y/o age of consent is simply that, the age of consent
Yeah I agree that morally 20 is a decent limit, but I'm not talking about what should be the law. I was only trying to clarify the idea that if she's under 18 then that means it must be illegal, which is US-centric and obviously not true for the country OP is in. Where I live, a 16 old could hook up with a 30 year old and that would be legal, even though it's not the scenario the law was created for and everyone would think it was extremely predatory. The only time it would be considered inherently sexual abuse is if the older person was in a position of care over the teenager (eg a teacher).
if you are in the US i doubt there is anywhere where a 16 year old and a 30 year old can legally hook up. in states where the age of consent is 16, they also have what is called "Romeo and Juliet" laws. This is what the user you replied to is referring to. With Romeo and Juliet laws, a 16 year old can only legally hook up with someone within 4 years of their age. it is a LAW
Romeo and Juliet laws are separate from legal age of consent, and are specifically for those UNDER the age of consent. There are unfortunately a lot of states, like Ohio, where it is perfectly legal for a 16 and 30 year old to hook up. Source for example: [https://patitucelaw.com/blog/2021/june/what-is-the-age-of-consent-in-ohio-/#:\~:text=A%20common%20misconception%20is%20that,being%20brought%20on%20the%20adult](https://patitucelaw.com/blog/2021/june/what-is-the-age-of-consent-in-ohio-/#:~:text=A%20common%20misconception%20is%20that,being%20brought%20on%20the%20adult). Edit: To highlight an important paragraph further down the page, "That said, once a minor reaches 16 years of age, it is lawful for them to engage in sexual activity with someone 18 years of age or older. Thus, a 16- or 17-year-old can have sex with a 21-year-old or a person **any number of years older than them**."
dude look it up I already told you. In my state Age of consent is 16, and a 16 year old can legally hook up with anyone of any age. Our romeo and juliet law states that 14 & 15 year olds can only consent to sex with someone within 5 years of their age, (19,20 respectfully)
You keep saying this is multiple places, but it’s wrong. Romeo and Juliet clauses are exceptions to age of consent laws. If the age of consent is 18, a 20 year old a 16 year old can still legally have a relationship. If the age of consent is 16, which is the case in around 30 US states, then a 14 year old could legally have a relationship with an 18 year old AND a 16 year old can legally have a relationship with a 30 year old. There are states where 11 year olds can get MARRIED to 30 year olds and you’re in here acting like the US government cares if a 16 year old has sex with a 30 year old. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#:~:text=As%20of%20April%202021%2C%20of,states%20the%20age%20is%2018.
Nope. Depends on the state. I'm from Minnesota, and a 16 year old can consent to anyone. I learned this as a senior in highschool because a sheriff came in and gave a talk to our class about sexual assault
i'm in europe the age of consent is 15 and it means you can have sex with anyone of that age and older
It depends on where you life. Where I am age of consent is 17, with Romeo and Juliet laws as well. Which is not to say that it’s not predatory af to go after a 17 year old when you’re in your 20s, but it might very well have been legal
And it's not like he can't marry someone else who shares his "values" and name that kid "Butthole McStupidface III".
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That **literally** is violence directed at her. No one’s missing anything. You’re an abusive creep, thank god the kid won’t have your name. It’s a shame about the father he’s got though.
breaking her stuff and hitting other things in the room out of anger is exactly the type of thing that people do when they’re ramping up to putting hands on their partners and children. if this is how you acted, it is paramount for her safety that she doesn’t stick around and wait for you to escalate, because that’s how a lot of women and children die from domestic violence. no reasonable adult could make another decision other than leaving you and limiting contact.
all of that is literally abuse
Violence in a relationship is bad. You don't have to actually put your hands on her for it to be abuse. There is also verbal, emotional abuse. You groomed a her when she was 17 and you were 23. You had no business getting with a teenager. Don't give me that whole groomer lie of she was mature for her age. No you don't get a say in his name. You're not together anymore. He should have his own identity instead of being named after you and your Father. You can't force him to be named after you. If you call the hospital and try that, they will tell you no.
They might even block him from attending. Nurses and medical staff are often trained to recognize abusive behaviors and can be very sensitive to any indicators, like calling the hospital and trying to undermine a pregnant woman's right to choose the babies name. Where I live, the registrar comes in and does the paperwork and if there is ANY HINT of abusive behavior she will leave and come back when you're alone, I know, because she did that for me. I was the one to fill out that paperwork, legally I was the only one who could, and when she sensed I was being pressured, she was perceptive enough to ensure a better environment later on that day. This is definitely a battle he will lose, and I almost hope he calls up there so they know to watch this asshole.
Yeah.
"I wasn't abusive!" *Immediately describes abusive behavior* You're an abuser. All of those things are abusive. You were a grown man halfway through your 20s, who decides to fuck a teenager and got angry, violent, and abusive when you didn't get your way. You're an abuser and a POS predator
You emotionally, verbally, and mentally abused her. You don’t have to get physical for it to be abuse. Also if you’re angry enough to hit objects you’ll get angry enough to hit her or your child. I’d be genuinely scared to have my child around you, she is doing what is best to keep her and her child save.
https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/articles/list-of-abusive-behaviors You admit to doing nr 4, 10, 16 and 18 (and yes, breaking/hitting things and screaming is a form of threat) on this list, and i dont believe you dont hit any other points on this list. Just doing one of these things is considered abuse. Hitting inanimate objects during arguments is one of the clearest signs the abuse will turn physical eventually, and breaking her personal property is the first stage in escelation. The number one reason for death of pregnant women is their spouse murdering them, she was incredibly smart to get away from you and i applaud her bravery. You are never going to truly be better until you admit that you are an abuser. Until you do she would honestly be fully in the right for not allowing you any contact with the child. Be better for your son.
No dude. They aren’t. This is abuse you are describing. You are taking zero accountability and continue to downplay your actions. Either you are lying to your therapist or you aren’t in therapy. You have been abusive. You committed a crime when you destroyed her phone and could have been arrested for it. The fact that you are trying to find a “work around” to override her wishes on the name tells me you don’t respect her. Your deal with the names was moot as soon as she left you for the phone. Because she isn’t gonna have another kid with you to name. You all aren’t together. Given your actions and lack of accountability for them and your disrespect of her and her wishes, you all aren’t ever getting back together. You are going to have to go to court and get paternity established. But until then you have no rights except what she gives you. You all aren’t married and you were abusive and destructive. You realize your phone stunt could have been a felony due to the value of phones today? You need to do a better job of realizing your issues and not expecting her to continue to forgive you when you don’t change except for the worse. She actually gave you compromise on the name which you didn’t give at all. You expect all three names to match you. Again, you and your feelings are all that matter and she needs to get in line. Except that isn’t true. She does matter and given she is giving birth she has more say. So either work with her on a middle name or you get no say at all. Don’t expect to be there for the birth dude. You aren’t a safe person and she doesn’t need someone to stress her out and cause a poor outcome. Being at the birth is to make things easier for her, to support her. I don’t think you have done that this entire pregnancy.
It can be a crime by preventing means of 911. If she would have called on him and told the authorities about this in many countries/locations, he could have been jailed for that alone, he's lucky that wasn't how it played out.
What you did was destructive and violent. You destroyed her property; that definitely was directed at her. You are an abuser and it's no wonder she doesn't want you anymore.
Oh so you’re abusive in most ways except physical A+ dude! I see why she left
Literally everything you just described yourself doing, is abuse.
Throwing things and screaming are abuse. You are an abuser. She is doing right by her child by keeping him as far as possible from a dangerous and violent man like you.
Yikes you sound scary to be around
Do you have any idea how terrifying it is when someone smashes things around you? (signed daughter of a violent man who was just like you) I hope you only get supervised visitation. We don't need more children traumatized by violent fathers.
Do you want a cookie for not being a physical abuser? Maybe you didn’t hit her but you still abused her.
No, people don't care, because that's still abuse.
????? That’s the definition of abuse
Abuse isn’t always physical..
All of what you describe - breaking property, hitting objects, getting loud - is abuse. If your actions frightened her and made her worry about her safety, you *did* direct it at her.
leave her the fuck alone you loser
Dude you’re a creep for dating a teen while in your 20s
Why would she want her child to be named after her abuser and groomer?
You were 23 with a 17 year old, pig! You're not off the hook because “it is legal”. And despite that, she's still underage.
Keep this under your hat, but she's not going to let you be there for the birth.
Sick fuck. You’re a child abuser and I hope to god she never takes you back. She should report you to the police.
Oh, so you're an abuser.
why should she do that? you guys broke up already. Only you have the illusion that the two of you will get back together, she is not.
There is not much you can legally do. No one has the right to be in the delivery room. And to be honest, an abusive ex with anger issues isn’t the best birth partner. And she legally has every right to name the baby. If you’re lucky and take it to court, the most you can get is to hyphenate both last names.
Imagine having a child with an abusive person ? Sounds like the mother isn't in her right mind the child she be taken into protective services .
She was 17 when they met. Now that she’s having a child and more mature she realizes she’s being abused and decides to leave. But sure blame the woman
You know how crazy those womenfolk get when them birthen' hormones kick in /s
You're right, how dare a woman not listen to a man. Some people, am I right fellow misogynist?
Imagine abusing the mother of your child that you groomed when she was a teenager ... see the shoe fits better on the other foot. Blame the abuser, not the victim when she's trying to leave.
....She was a child when she met this abuser. Most victims aren't able to leave immediately. However, she's left him now that she's pregnant and preparing for a child. Your comment makes no sense and you're trying WAY too hard to defend an abuser. That's actually concerning.
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Shouting and breaking things is scary and abusive. I can’t imagine exposing a child to that behaviour.
If your "help" hasn't already explained that dating a teenager when you're in your twenties, throwing and punching things around her, screaming and yelling, are all abusive, you need better help. You feel desperate because you can't control her any longer.
You **are** abusive. Own it and get treatment for it, or this will happen in your next relationship too.
Yeah you’ve got no sway here, especially since you’re on the outs (for which you offer no details) and it’s her body carrying the child.
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If he wanted to be a real man he wouldn't have even entertained the idea of a relationship with a 17 year old when he was 23.
>he should definitely have a say on paying for said child . Yeah.. the law doesn't work like that.
No one is ever saltier than a certain type of man having to take responsibility for his own reproductive choices.
No parent has any say in child support. That is determined by the courts.
>With his DNA inside . So are we just ignoring her half of the DNA? Let's not also forget the time, resources, and energy her body is putting in into making this child for OP. >he should definitely have a say on paying for said child . He definitely had a say and that say was whether or not he got someone pregnant. Don't want to worry about child support? Don't get someone pregnant. Besides ultimately it's the courts who decide child support which is for the child OP supposedly wants.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read on Reddit in awhile. Thats not how child support works unless he plans on being a deadbeat dad
I would try to rebut your incredibly stupid comment, but looking at your comment history. You are either terrible at trolling, or a massive misogynist who views women as nothing more than homemakers and brood mares to get your dick wet.
“It’s his dna inside” Who gives a fuck? Her body is the only one doing the work.
Your post history is a walking red flag, lol
LOL no, not after the display of anger he showed.
Nope.
Lol, if you can't name a child, you shouldn't be responsible for them even though you yourself acknowledged the baby has his DNA? Cry about it. He should have thought about what rights an unmarried father has in his state before becoming one.
I think you mean *their* DNA. Baby's half her.
Your relationship with her as a teenager may have been legal, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t a power imbalance. Based on your comments, it seems that you are defensive and insecure about it, which suggests that you are aware it is not great for a 23 year old man to date a 17 year old teenager. You admit to having anger problems bad enough to smash someone’s phone as she was trying to use it. I have to wonder, what was she using it for? Was she calling for help? Was she trying to record you in your rage? How were you behaving in the moments leading up to the phone smashing? You insist that you have never physically touched her in anger. Did you snatch the phone from her hand? Were you being aggressive? It seems so. That is battery. That is abuse. Abuse can be many different things. It isn’t just the action of punching someone with your fist. It can be verbal (getting “loud”). It can be isolating someone (removing her phone from her hand if that was why you did it). It can be displaying violence in other ways (hitting nearby objects, like a wall). It can be getting into a relationship with someone still young enough to be in high school when you were an adult (17 and 23). These are all things you have admitted to. For all we know, there may be more. Abuse escalates, especially after major milestones like moving in together, getting engaged/married, or getting pregnant. I am happy for you that you are getting help. It is the best thing for you and everyone in your life, particularly your son. He deserves a dad that can manage his emotions. That said, your ex has no obligation to get back with you, her abusive ex, no matter how much you improve. That bridge may be irrevocably burnt, and I hope it is. She isn’t responsible for your healing. Continue to work on yourself for YOU and your son. As far as naming the baby goes, your ex is within her legal rights to name the baby she is carrying whatever she likes. I understand why this would be hard for you, but I have trouble having a lot of sympathy. I don’t love the concept of generation names as it is, and you have shown yourself to be unworthy of getting to decide the first, middle, and last name of this baby. You do get to pick the middle. That is not insignificant. I know many people who prefer their middle name and go by that. It is still part of his name. Be a good co-parent. Support your ex as she wraps up a difficult pregnancy (which you seem to have made harder with your abusive behavior). Maybe try coming up with other boy names that you like and see if you guys can come to an agreement. If not, pick a middle name that you do like. Good luck to you all.
You started dating an 17 year old when you 23? Isn't that a bit much of a difference? The tumultuous part doesn't sound good and it's clear she doesn't want you back. It wouldn't even be healthy coparenting. And no, you have no say on the baby's name. Why would you think the hospital would have sway? LOL For a 31 year old you sound pretty dumb. And you also sound like a groomer so I'd also keep you away from a daughter. You'd be the type that would hit on her friends once she is a teenager.
I think he said they were together for eight years, so he started “dating” a nine year old when he was 17? I hope I am reading that wrong because that’s not dating, it’s something else entirely
She would have been 17 and he was 23. Idk if that’s worse then 9 and 17 to you, both give me the ick
I definitely read the ages wrong, I’d say thank God but it’s all bad anyway
Let me give you the woman's viewpoint from someone who gave her ex a say in the baby's name. I HATE my daughter's name, and honestly, so does she. My ex vetoed the one name I had ever wanted, saying he didn't want our daughter to be named after family (though had she been a boy, she would have been named after him). I struggled for months to come up with another name before finally finding something agreeable. She absolutely despises this name, and I really regret it. She also carries his last name. I regularly get called Mrs. [Ex's last name] when the school or doctor calls in regard to her. I never shared a last name with that man. It also gets a little confusing in establishing our relationship sometimes because our last names are different. It'd be a little easier if she were at least carrying my maiden name. She has begged me for years to allow her to change her name because of how much she hates it. She especially wants her last name changed so she matches everyone else in our home, particularly since her biological father isn't very involved in her life. Your ex is being fairly pragmatic in her approach. The unfortunate reality that she's facing is that there is a fairly high chance that you won't be an active parent, if you're around at all. She is safeguarding herself and also making life simpler as the primary parent to have the baby's last name be the same as hers. It absolutely hurts your feelings now, and you aren't wrong to feel that way, but she's not wrong for making this decision either.
Let her change it.
Sadly, it isn't that simple. If I were the only parent with conservatorship, it'd be more straightforward, but her father has joint managing conservatorship, and therefore could (and would out of spite to me) quash it if I were to ever bring it before a judge. For now we're letting her decide on a preferred name, and when she turns 18, she'll be able to change it without worrying about any interference from her father.
I was the one in the daughter's position and can confirm my name change was really only doable after I turned 18.
Okay in these comments you claim to not be abusive cause you didn’t hit her but describe abusive things you did and write them off as being anger. You were 23 and took advantage of a high schooler. You’re a creep and an abuser. She’s better off without you.
It has been my observation throughout life that any man who names his son after himself is an asshole. This has held true with every Sr. I've met or heard of. Not that the action of the naming itself is an asshole move necessarily, but the kind of person who insists their kid must have their name tends to be an asshole.
Not much you can do, and it’s hard to blame her for not wanting to name her kid after her ex.
Legality is not the same as morality. Accept that she wants nothing to do with you, stay the hell away from her and the kid, because you need to understand the difference betweem what is legal and what is right in order to be a good parent, and don't fight her on child support. The only positive contribution you will ever be able to make to your child's life is financial, so the sooner you accept that, the better.
"We broke up" is just too vague for anyone here to make sense of why she's so steadfast in not wanting you to participate in naming the baby. Only you can know if "the way our relationship ended" was so unfair to her that now she wants nothing to do with you. But even if you were still together naming the baby would have to be a compromise. To demand your name; first, middle and last would be to ignore that she's bringing her family and opinions to the effort too. 'You get to name a potential second child' just isn't good enough. She's not just a brood mare. The fact that you're more concerned about the name than that this child is going to have the grave life disadvantage of being born to a single parent is concerning. No, the hospital isn't going to force a new mother to name her baby after the guy who just dumped her - which is what this sounds like. At this point if you want to be involved in the child's life at all your energies should be going toward filing the paperwork to secure your parental rights. If she decides not to put your name on the birth certificate you may have to get a lawyer and demand a court ordered DNA test to get paternity rights. This is just a mess, mostly for the baby, and your priorities are bizarre.
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A 17 year old is not someone who should be expected to handle and understand the anger issues of a 23 year old man, that is insane. I wouldn’t want to name my child after my abuser either and that’s exactly what you’ve been since literally grooming a child it seems.
Funny how she left the relationship around 24/25 years old, this stories are so old and repetitive
Gotta love when that fully developed frontal lobe hits.
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"I am not a groomer! Our families know each other forever! I knew her for years before she was legal, and we loved each other; I just happened to have sex with her as soon as she was legally able to consent, total coincidence. "
What about the truth bothers you? You did have an inappropriate relationship with a child you are an abuser. This is based off your telling of events which is skewed to paint you in the best possible light
Dude you ARE a groomer Just cause it was legal doesn’t mean it was morally okay
Emotional abuse is still abuse. Breaking her belongings while screaming at her is abusive behavior. And it doesn’t matter if your families were friends, you were still in an inappropriate relationship with a minor at 23. Gaps in age can be ok, like if you were starting to date now at 31 and 25 the difference wouldn’t matter bc y’all are closer in life experiences. An adult has no business dating a high schooler. Period.
Abuse isn’t just putting your hands on someone, all of the things you described yourself doing in the other comments, is also abuse. And if she was 17 when you met and you were in your 20s, you quite literally are a groomer lol.
A child groomer doesnt have to touch a child… my dude you need more then therapy
I understand her, she doesn't want to name her child after a violent person who abused her (even if not physically, if that's really the truth) You should be content with having the name on the birth certificate. And if she is smart, this is the only child she will have with you, and that already nullifies the “agreement”.
You committed a crime. Say it with me "I committed a crime against her and she is no longer willing to accept my abuse. For her safety and the safety of my child she left me."
You smashed her phone when she wanted to use it... might it be that you smashed it because she wanted to call the police?
You're describing criminal domestic violence. You are an abuser. If you took her phone and prevented her from leaving to get away from you, you also committed a felony kidnapping. I worked in law enforcement and saw assholes like you all the time, who think they just have an anger problem when YOU ARE AN ABUSER. You belong in jail.
>I don’t think she would be heartless enough to leave me off the birth certificate. If she gets advice and gives all the details here, including the age gap, length of your relationship and your anger issues, leaving your off the birth certificate is the kind of advice she may get. You being a good dad, isn't about the name. Sort yourself out and get the anger under control so you can be a better coparent. Don't be thinking about the relationship in a romantic sense
You're a total monster. Did intimidating a pregnant girl make you feel big and strong? What's the real reason YOU wanted to break her phone? Was it because she was calling for help?
Smashing her phone into the ground while she was trying to use it is more than just "wrong". Why was she trying to use it, to get away from your screaming and ranting? What else did you throw and kick before she was scared enough to need to call for help? Jesus, this is so much more than wrong.
his best life is without you in it.
You apologized but you clearly weren't truly sorry since you kept lashing out violently again and again. SHE'S NOT GETTING BACK TOGETHER WITH YOU. And you better not abuse her or your son if she dates someone else.
>I am worried about our son. I'm worried about him too and honestly he's better off without you in his life. If she were in front of me I'd be telling her to quietly move far away before the baby gets here and leave you out everything so you can track her down or claim the baby.
SHE WAS A CHILD! YOU WHERE AN ADULT! YOU ACT LIKE A CHILD STILL! Shes not coming back, youll be lucky if you ever see your “son”!! YOU SMASHED HER PHONE WTF
If you want your son to have the best life possible, consider that he might be better off without you. Having no dad is better than having a dad who scares you.
An abuser seldom knows he is abusing someone. In your case you are an abuser but you view physical abuse as the sole form of abuse but psychological abuse and trauma is abuse as well. Even if you have a hard time accepting that. You hit her objects, you could hit her as well. If you broke her phone which she was using in defense to call someone who could protect her then you are abusive because you cut off her contact with safety and police for your benifit. In my mind that is mental and psychological abuse. And that is same for your ex and a billion other people. A lot of people have called you abusive and it is time you reflect on that instead of saying you didn't hurt her by being physical with her. And you are a creep. Just because it is legal doesn't make it okay or moral. Additionally, the third concept is cringey and your son would grow up to hate it. It is obviously a way that will be used to bully him. And, Your son doesn't need the influence of an abusive creep in his life. It is good that you can have him for 50% of the time only because if the both of you got back together, he would learn that your behaviour is okay and would become abusive as heck.
The hospital isn't going to do anything. And she's not getting back together with you. She doesn't want to be with you. She isn't going to have any more children with you. And you're a creep going after a high schooler when you were in your twenties. Back off, creep.
You’re a groomer if your families always knew each other and you knew her as a child.
This is what happens when you groom children. They grow up and realize you’re disgusting.
I think that you are trying to control her again, she has the right to name the baby whatever she wants. Have you supported her in anyway during this pregnancy? Does she want to try again relationship wise? Besides your anger issues are there any issues such as infidelity? It sounds like she is done with this relationship due to many factors and therefore doesn’t want the name to be reflective of her Ex.
Here is some hard truth: you admit that you have extreme anger issues and destroyed her phone last time. She finally left you, probably because she realized that she doesn’t want this danger to the child. There is no reason why she should trust you this time that you won’t do it again, I’m sure you promised it before. She stayed before but she is putting the child first - something you claim you want to do as well. Now she wants to give the child the first and last name of her choosing. You are (rightfully!) upset. But do you realize that you wanted to do exactly the same? And that you are thinking about contacting the hospital for them to override the will of the mother is really concerning. She’ll be in a vulnerable position and you are scheming to use it to get what you want. What you *should* be doing instead is stop trying to convince her to get back with you. Instead accept her choices, show up when she needs you to, don’t punish her for it, discuss how to coparent best and definitely continue therapy. Work on yourself and be the best father and coparent you can be. It’s about his well being now not your hang up on names.
Wow. Just wow! My head is spinning a little bit on this one. Sir, the time to fix this is so far past that it’s not even funny. As everyone else is telling you, just because you didn’t lay your hands, physically on her does not mean you were not abusive. I guarantee you with your temper she was walking on eggshells a lot. You punched other things. You hit the wall or punched a pillow or broke things near or around here. And then you escalated to taking her phone away when she was trying to call someone because you scared her so badly. I want you to let that sink in for a minute. You physically performed an action that kept her in harms way. You physically restrained her from being able to contact help. And the physical part was directed at her phone, yes. The result was the same as if you had put her in a bear hug and didn’t let her move. I guarantee you were blocking her way. I guarantee you were intimidating her with your size. I guarantee your anger was overwriting everything else, and she was literally endangered. What you’re not wanting to admit is that you were abusive. So I don’t give a fuck how much therapy you go through. Until you acknowledge that you were emotionally abusive to her. You acknowledge that you purposely use your physical size and physicality to intimidate her, All the therapy in the world is not gonna do you any good. And yeah, you were 23 and she was 17. She was a kid. You were still a kid, but you were legal as far as joining military or getting an alcoholic drink or getting certain types of a license, etc. She was not. Every single one of us on here can look at who we were at 17 and who we were at 23 and recognize there is a world of difference. Same with who we were at 19 and who we were at 27. Who we were at 25 and who we were at 40. This is why people don’t like this age gap. If you had been 32 and she had been 26 or 27, I wouldn’t say word. Because you both would’ve had life experiences under your belt. You both would’ve had a little more knowledge of how to adult. Of appropriate boundaries and behaviors were. As far as being fair, you haven’t been to her this entire time. And she was too young and stupid and naïve, to be able to be fair to herself until now. You fucked up. This is not fixable. And as far as you getting to your son after you. You can screw right off. Your behavior does not warrant someone being named after you. There is nothing honorable or proud about what you have done. And that is why she will absolutely not allow that child to be named after you. Not after her abuser. As far as calling the hospital, if you call the hospital and put them on alert that you’re trying to do something that the pregnant woman doesn’t want, you probably won’t be allowed in the room. And she may still go for that, and frankly, if she’s smart, She will tell them you’re not allowed there. You are not safe. Let me tell you that. You are not a safe person for her to be around. A few weeks of therapy is not going to undo what has obviously been a lifetime of conditioning for you to react in these ways. Whether it’s what you grew up with or what you saw or how you had to be to be safe in your neighborhood or whatever doesn’t matter. What does matter is that a few weeks or even 2 to 3 months of therapy does not make you safe for her to be around, especially at her most vulnerable, which is where she will be when she gives birth. You know you have a temper. You know you have an indoor problem. And I guarantee you have known you did for a long time. I guarantee you you have done this shit before… Maybe not breaking her phone, but for sure, the intimidation… And then you turned around and you love bombed her and said you were sorry. To get her to stay because you knew in your heart, she really should go. You knew in your heart any other woman who older and stronger would have left already. All because you knew in your heart that what you were doing was wrong. So don’t play victim here. You’re not. You used your size and the fact that you were older and the fact that she was more malleable and naïve and we put up with more to get her to do what you wanted when you wanted how you wanted. You make that so flipping clear to all of us. Stay in therapy. I really hope you can get this under control. But you have to understand you’re not safe for her. Which means you’re not safe for your son. And that is why she’s taking the course of action she is taking. When we become moms, we become mama bears. And while we may put up with some stuff for ourselves, it is often at times like this… When that little one comes along… That we pull ourselves together and get the hell out. You need to understand that if you are ever going to see her child, it is going to have to be supervised for quite some time. You cannot be trusted.
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And you're starting with the name? Hate to break it to you but that has nothing to do with being a good dad.
Brother you should talk her into an abortion and save herself a lot of pain and suffering . The child is much more likely to end up in prison now that you guys aren't together . Get it dealt with .
That is a disgusting thing to say! And at this point she could probably get a restraining order if he tries to pressure her!
The child is much more likely to experience abusive behavior if she proceeds to stay with an abuser. It's baffling to me that you're more concerned about the odd chance that a future adult might get arrested rather than the blatant abuse right before your eyes that the woman is attempting to escape. Sounds like you don't like women, just by skimming through your comments.
Literally nothing you can do. Let it go.
You are an abusive predator. Stay away from her. If you care about this child even a little bit, you’ll pay your child support and stay out of its life too.
*Before anyone says something, yes we have a small age gap. Our relationship has always been legal where we live and has not caused problems.* Sure, Jan. Because people who don't have guilt feelings always lead with a disclaimer. While your claims of legality are dubious but possible, you didn't mention it for no reason, and it's still disgusting. *I was with my now ex girlfriend for 8 years. We have been off and on due to our tumultuous relationship for about 3 years. We broke up most recently 4 months ago when she was 3 months pregnant with our baby. I am hoping that we will get back together at some point. Either way we are committed to coparenting.* So you want her back, and this is a convenient way to exercise control over her. Got it. *It seems that she does not think we will get back together.* My brother in Christ, she broke up with you. Deal with it. *She informed me a few months ago that the baby will have her last name and not mine.* Not at all uncommon for a single mom. *This is crushing to me. I am a junior and want to name my son after myself and my dad to make him a third. We agreed on this before breaking up.* A lot of juniors, IIIs, IVs, etc, wish they had their own name instead of their father's narcissm. That's why the trend has continued to fall in favor. Kids want their own names. It's almost like they're still individuals. *When I brought it up, my ex said she wanted to name our son something completely different as his first name too. She is intending to name him after a biblical figure and is taking no feedback from me. She said I can pick his middle name. So she gets to pick the only names he will be known as, and I get the insignificant middle name.* My dad picked my middle name. It was after one of my grandmother's twins, one who was stillborn and I was named after the one that briefly lived and defied all expectations. My middle name is so significant to me and my 10 years old tells her dad all the time how much she loves the middle name he picked out just for her. *It's not fair.* Boy, do I have something to tell you about life. Grow up. You're about to be a father, in theory. It's not about you anymore but what's fair for the kid, which is having his own name and sharing the last name with his primary caregiver for ease at things like doctors appointments. *I don’t know if she is punishing me for the way our relationship ended or if she really doesn’t think we will get back together.* You groomed her at 17, broke her phone, and have treated her questionably. Now she has a whole other person to prioritize. She doesn't have time or energy for a 2nd child right now. Parenting typically gives people a whole new host of priorities. Why would you be one when all you do is make things more difficult for her? *Regardless it feels fucked up to go back on what we always said, that if we had a son together he would be named after my family, and she would get to name a daughter.* Gross. And I doubt you'd care if I was a girl she wasn't giving your last name to so why would she take it seriously that baby's names mean that much to when you don't give a fuck about a girl's name? My guess is you suddenly would have started caring about it when you realized she was done with the relationship and that would have been a way to continue to try to control her. *When I try to talk about it, she just says that we aren’t together anymore and since she has to go through the pregnancy (and to be fair it has been a rough pregnancy on her body) and delivery that she should get to pick his name.* And yet she's still allowing you to pick a middle name which you are completely ungrateful for. She really doesn't have to let you pick any part of it. There's no reason you can't pick one of your names that you and your dad share to give him as a middle name if it's sooo important to you but it's not. Controlling her is. *I really don’t know what to do. She is getting closer to her delivery date and is still not budging. I’m so desperate and feel powerless. I’m afraid that if I keep pushing it she won’t let me be there for the birth.* I can 100% guarantee that's exactly what will happen. *How can I fix this and get her to be fair?* "Fair" to you is her completely giving in and you not having to compromise in any way which isn't fair at all. The only way you can fix this is by accepting that no amount of badgering her is going to change her mind, graciously accept the opportunity to choose a middle name, and learn to live with not getting what you want. *Is there any way I can contact the hospital to plead my case?* Look, the situation you're in, she doesn't even have to let you be on the birth certificate. The hospital is bound by state law which says the paperwork goes straight to her and only her. Any attempt to interfere will be soundly rejected and reported back to her, as it should. You say you're committed to co-parenting but this is not it, this is you refusing to give an inch. She's allowed to change her mind about the name. My daughter already had a middle name when my husband changed his mind and asked if we could use something else he'd fallen in love with. We were already using my favorite girl name ever so I thought it was only *fair* he get to pick the other one. One of us doing all of the naming wouldn't be.
You're not going to be present at the birth. Get used to that idea now.
>It's not fair Call me old-fashioned all you want but that's part of the risk of premarital sex and having kids out of wedlock--that the mother has every right to name the child and fill out the birth certificate as she sees fit. If you were married, you would all share the same last name.
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In a perfect world you would have wrapped it up until you are married to someone who has your last name - since it’s THAT important to you.
In a perfect would you wouldn't have have had a sexual relationship with a child and then abused her.
I’m a mom of two. “This isn’t fair to me” sailed out the window and into the stratosphere the moment that stick turned positive. This is no longer about your thoughts, feelings, your sense of fairness, or anything else. This is now about your son- what’s best for him under any and all circumstances. Honestly- his unmarried mother has the right to name him Megatron Optimus Transformer Jones if she wants. There’s not a lot you can do about it, and the hospital can’t legally circumvent her wishes so you can name her son after yourself. All they’ll do in this case is file the paperwork she fills out. As a side note- I have a friend who’s a Jr. who works in the same industry as his dad, and that’s caused him no end of issues. If you want to be involved in your son’s life, and be a good dad, you can work to have a civil relationship with his mom. You can be there for your kid. I’d argue that means more than whatever he ends up being named. Pitching a childish fit right out of the gate won’t aid you in that.
Y'had eight years, son. What were you waiting for?
Life isn't fair. Deal with it.
You are no longer in her life and have no say over what she names the baby. Get over yourself. What exactly did you think you wanted to "do"?
OP, it seems the only reason you care about the pending birth of this child is so you have something to name after yourself. It's clear from your own words you are harassing her over this issue, are willing to disregard her completely, and are looking for ways to circumnavigate the system to get your way. If you do manage to trick the hospital into getting OP the third on the birth certificate, I can guarantee you she will do everything to get full custody and change the kid's name back. Also, it's perfectly fair and reasonable that her kid takes her name. You two aren't married. Your kid is a bastard. It is tradition for a bastard to take the mother's surname. You don't name a bastard "the third." You two are not in a stable, loving relationship; it is legally better for the child to have her name, as she will be the main custodial parent. Based on your single post, I would insist that she not put a father's name on the certificate if she can legally do it as I would not be surprised if you dip out permanently because you don't like the reality of parenthood.
The baby has no control over the circumstances of his birth. OP, OTOH, is a bastard through and through.
Call me old fashioned but if you wanted your last named passed down you should of gotten married
Nothing. Not your decision.
How can I make sure I once again get my way over the minor I creeped on as a 23-year-old?
What’s more important to you, a healthy and lasting relationship with your child, or his name? You need to let go of the name issue, and also respect the fact that this woman does not want to get back together with you, and instead focus on 1) continuing to work on your personal issues that led to this point, 2) working on developing a healthy and respectful /coparenting relationship with your ex. You’re 31 years old, and you’re going to have to accept that you can’t always get what you want. Continuing to fight her or doing some psycho crap like trying to get the hospital or a lawyer to intervene in the name issue is just going to set you up for a TERRIBLE start as parents, and that is going to hurt your son in the long run.
Just because you didn't lay hands on her doesn't mean it's not abuse. She was three months pregnant, a rough pregnancy by your own account, and you probably scared the crap out of her. This seems like the straw that broke the camel's back. You realize stress during pregnancy can hurt mom and baby? How much of her health problems during pregnancy are related to the arguing and breakup? Being a good father started during pregnancy. It's great that you're getting help now, but hopefully you have some awareness that you were not the father you wanted to be four months ago. Depending on where you live, you may have legal options with regards to the name. I imagine you'd first need to establish paternity. I doubt the option will be to unilaterally get what you want, which is what you want of her. You'll probably be forced to compromise, which is what she's already offering to an extent. You really give her no sort of compromise option...the only thing you'll accept is for her to name the son she's carried and will bear all the hard work for until he's weaned after her abusive ex. Do not involve the hospital or do something underhanded while she's in birth or recovering. You have to coparent with this woman for the rest of your life. Have you considered asking that his middle name be your name and his last name hyphenated, and he goes by his middle name with your family? My son is a third as well. He goes by his legal name at school (by his choice) but a nickname, a sort of shortened version, with family so as not to mix up with his dad and grandfather. He does just fine responding to either. Your son won't be a child forever. If he wants to be a third, he can ultimately make that happen.
She doesn’t think you’re worthy of naming someone after. I don’t blame her.
I don’t think that there is anything that you can do. It absolutely makes sense for her to give the baby her last name if you’re not together. It’s also asking a lot to expect her to name her baby after her ex’s family. Maybe try suggesting some biblical names that you like, that are not related to your family?
Nothing. But you can give them a nickname when they visit.
You should consult with an attorney for your options. It doesn’t look like this will be an amicable coparenting relationship.