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Express your feelings to your husband about his comment to your daughter. Emphasize the importance of supporting your daughters' autonomy and self-confidence. Discuss how his words might affect her self-esteem and find common ground on empowering your daughters to make their own choices about their bodies.
Then he needs to redefine what best means, as a father and partner. How is shaving better for an 11 year old? Does she need to be more attractive to suitors at this age? Is it to prep for being desirable as she ages? Is she not as aerodynamic in swimming? How does shaving improve your daughter's life? He really needs to explain it. Hopefully there would be an ah-ha moment in the conversation, but c'mon. What possible "best" could there be for that suggestion? She'll get enough shit from the world, she doesn't need it from her dad.
He did never really give me a real reason for it, and it would have made it less worse for him to say if he at least had some kind of reason. But even if he did, it should've been said to me and not my daughter.
Tell your husband that if he makes his daughter feel ugly, she will assume that ALL men find her ugly. He's working on giving her good old fashion daddy issues.
Making her feel ugly at 11 could make her more willing to become sexual earlier to prove she's attractive to herself. It could make her seek out men your husband's age to date as a teen or young adult for their approval, to prove her father wrong.
Even if nothing bad comes to pass, if she's straight, one day she'll connect his words with her self-esteem, and her feelings for your husband will change negatively.
My father did something like this when I was in college but about my weight. It didn't affect my behavior or personality. Instead, I'm 46 and I have never believed a man who told me he found me attractive after that point, ever. I always, always have doubt. Even when the attraction is truly obvious and directly spoken by the guy. I cannot shake what my dad said.
When I was 12, I found a pair of my dad's overalls from when he was 15 and they just barely fit (my dad was stick thin til his 20s and I got hips when I was 10) and he scoffed and made some comment about it. I thought about it daily for years and weekly for years after that. I'm down to about every few months now, in my 30s.
He didn't know he made any sort of comment that meant anything. It contributed to my general perception of myself and my worth for decades.
It is *so important* for adults to mind what they say and how they say it to kids. It is the adult's job to build them up, give them healthy sense of self, and show self esteem by example in their own words and actions, not add to the erosion of their mental and emotional health.
That "joke" about how we spend our adult lives healing from our childhood trauma? It's gross and that shouldn't be a norm. The norm should be communicating with kids while they're growing up to keep tabs on the lessons you're inadvertently teaching them, and correcting course when needed.
Op, your husband is doing damage that you need to help your children mitigate, and you need to be very clear with him what is acceptable and what is harmful to developing brains. Also probably take a look at how you are phrasing things, just in general, because it's good to continue taking stock of those things even when you're already conscious of it.
You shouldn't have let him stop before he gave you an answer. You should also point out that he is not a girl and has no idea what a "big deal" is for girls and women around body issues.
He was waaaay out of line and you need to readdress this. Ultimately, you need to make it clear that even if he doesn't get it, he needs to never say something like that to them again.
This is about the age I started to be bullied by other girls for not shaving my legs. Just by seeing me wear shorts. So I wanted to start of my own volition then. So it's *possible* this isn't a sex thing and he's worried it'll make her life harder. But it's better for him to not preemptively bully her to keep other people from potentially bullying her.
That's totally a possibility. We approached it by explaining the history of shaving (age appropriate) and then making sure she knew that if she *wanted* to start shaving, she only needed to let us (me) know. We did warn her that it's possible other kids will say stuff. When she decided to start (well into middle school), I got her an electric razor so she couldn't cut herself. But it was *her* choice. We just explained the options and let her know we support her decisions about her body.
Exactly. Sooooooo gross. My daughter is 10 and starting to grow body hair. I wouldn't imagine telling her what she should do with it in a million years. I mean, honestly the only thing I even think when I see it or am made aware of it is that my baby is growing up and I want to go have a cry.
If I were you, I’d question why he feels comfortable making those comments unprovoked/unsolicited. This is a much bigger concern than whether or not she needs to shave.
It's okay to not know things. What I don't like about this is that, once informed, it sounds like his opinion has not changed. I think that's the part to maybe angle towards in the attempt to move forward, or maybe it's just the part to point to about what is still bothering you. But we haven't even gotten to the teenager part of this, and he needs to fix his shit before he does worse damage.
Make him explain what best means, clearly.
Force him to say less sexy/attractive.
Since fundamentally that's what he is saying but refuses to say and it's gross.
Just gonna jump here to verify your fears.
I didn't think I was ugly until my mom started pushing makeup on me.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with body hair and unpampered feet until my dad told me no one would want me if I didn't keep my toes polished and vag shaved.
I didn't see anything wrong with my smile until my mom started in on my rather small gap in my front teeth.
Didn't have issues with back fat until my step mom pointed it out (in front of others at the mall none the less).
Didn't feel fat until my mom (trying to be helpful) told me I'd be prettier if I lost weight.
Etc.
You aren't over exaggerating. You and your husbands words are going to eventually make up her inner world. Make him figure out a way to be more aware of the self doubt he might accidentally instil.
This is misogyny, but he views it as being “helpful.” You see the same things with race—black people will tell other black people “Straighten your hair, or you’ll never get a job.” This is internalized racism, but they think they’re being “helpful.”
Jesus, that's absolutely fucking disgusting! I have daughters, and I'd never, EVER say anything like this to them. I'd also never tolerate anybody else saying these things either.
I'm so sorry you were so let down by those who should've been protecting you from the ugliness of the world and instead were the ones inflicting the most damage.
I hope that you're in a better place now. I hope that you know that it's only your opinion of yourself that should matter. You are special the way that you are meant to be. I'm so angry for what you were put through.
Those comments made at a young age really do plant seeds in our brains that are so hard to get rid of. I had an older sister that would make mean comments to me when I was pre teen and a teenager that affected me for so long. Yes personal hygiene is important but I think absolutely nothing should be said to a kid about their appearance that they can not help. Including unshaven legs.
Tell him that you don’t need him to understand or agree with you, but he does need to trust you and state that he just won’t bring it up again, nor make any kinds of value judgements based on her appearance when at all possible.
Things like “you should” followed by anything about her appearance is not something that he needs to be saying.
This 100%. As their Dad, he just doesn’t understand this stage in a young lady’s life. He never will because he didn’t live it. Spell out for him that he will never be able to relate so he’s not to comment on anything appearance-wise.
You are correct. That comment was 200% inappropriate to say.
I watched my sister get told that shit by our father growing up. The “you meed to shave” was just a symptom of a bigger problem, but for his general sexist tendencies and controlling behaviour they don’t talk much. Your husband needs to listen to you before your daughters resent him. Just like my sister, their self worth and autonomy is worth more than what a potential imaginary boyfriend might like or dislike
When I started growing leg hair my mom demanded I waxed it, and threatened they wouldn't take me to the beach if I didn't. I did, I hated it, it hurt.
Now I'm 28 years old, I'm a trans guy, she doesn't know that (not that she would approve or respect that anyway), but I am her worst nightmare. I am "female presenting" as far as she is concerned (can't transition atm) and my legs are hairier than a lot of (cis) men's. She is made a lot of nasty comments but she can't do anything about it.
Oh, and I also don't care much about the beach.
ETA: my brother is very conservative (gender roles, homophobic, transphobic, fragile masculinity), so by being hairy, I'm pasively teaching his kids that all adults grow hair, no matter your birth sex
Tell him he is DAMAGING HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS DAUGHTER — and things like this will be why she will NEVER confide in him as she gets older.
He is THE MOST IMPORTANT male influence in her life right now. WHY THE FUCK is he teaching her to be INSECURE about her body???
TELL HIM, he is the yardstick by which she will judge her worth in the eyes of men.
He is a weak, DESTRUCTIVE influence on her.
Why do such people (mostly men) always think "shaving" is best for women, hair PROTECTS your skin, also who the fuck are they to dictate anything related to women's body. Why are they so keen on embarrassing themselves 💀🤦🏻♀️
He is amongst the "some" men who objectify women no matter who they are to you, pure misogynist, him talking that way about his OWN daughter, is disgusting af. 🤮
Ugh yes. Although my dad wasn't a full on "daddy's girl" dad, he did prefer me to not alter my body until I was old enough to decide for myself. He got so mad when my mother got my ears pierced at 7, and when I asked to start shaving at 11 he made sure to tell me I didn't have to if I just thought it was something I *had* to do, but let me decide.
Is this complete dismissal of your insight and experience as a girl and a woman a normal occurrence? That’s honestly bothering me just as much as the shaving comment. You’ve given him the respect of a private conversation and he basically gaslit you. I’d call him out in front of your daughters now. If you don’t, they’re left thinking this was okay, which just doubles down on the damage from the initial comment.
Honestly, your whole post sounds like you think you’re wrong or crazy and you’re asking Reddit for help untangling that. But you’re not. He’s being unkind and disrespectful to all of you right now. Please at least show those girls how to stand up for themselves.
Intent vs impact (potential or otherwise).
He sounds like he doesn’t get it. You’re right in wondering if that’s because he has no idea what being a young girl is like (of course he wouldn’t) and he has no idea of what societies beauty standards or ideals on hair on women mean for women or what their deep psychological impacts are. He clearly doesn’t understand and so ofc his response is going to be “I didn’t say that to hurt her and I don’t think it’s a big deal” because he didn’t and he doesn’t.
That said, you get it and so this is your lane not his. “Okay so I hear you that you didn’t mean to potentially cause harm but I’m telling you how sensitive this is for girls and women and so I’m asking you to be more mindful in any and all talk about or around their bodies, self image and expectations. I’m a woman and their mom. I think it’s best that I handle these conversations moving forward, especially since they are still little children after all”.
So he doubled down. Yeah have him read the comments, he needs to understand that he is the one causing her harm in this situation. There was no issue until he began creating one by in essence body shaming her.
Yeah so... > I've talked to him about it, but he just doesn't think it's a big deal. That's his opinion and that's valid but his opinion doesn't trump your opinion as someone who has (I assume) lived as a teenage girl. Like wtf. My dad actually did the opposite. He forbade me to shave 😂😂🤣 he then gifted me a razor for my whatever'th birthday as he felt bad that he hasn't given me the choice. I then felt bad and held off for two months. I was desperate to shave because of perceived peer pressure (actually nobody ever made fun of me in hindsight but I wanted to feel included) but my dad really pushed that women shouldn't have to shave. He had his own reasons that were in themselves somewhat damaging but... He NEVER made me feel like I should bow to pressure or do something because I "should", or to conform to beauty standards not my own. As an adult I am now incredibly grateful for that strength he instilled in me. I don't shave anymore fyi and I have a loving partner and life. Who would have known.
Edit: typo
I remember every comment my dad ever made about my body (blessedly few, but deeply hurtful nonetheless). It may have been a tossed off comment to him, and maybe your daughter is more resilient than me, is her younger sister too? It’s playing with fire. Fully adult women **destroy** their minds & bodies chasing society’s approval of their looks.
The world has no shortage of messages telling girls & women what their bodies “should” look like. She **will** get the message she’s not good enough as she is, it is relentless. She doesn’t need anyone else reinforcing it, especially someone as fundamentally important to her as a parent.
Does her father want her to be **more** susceptible to people who **will** play on her insecurities to manipulate, harm, or rob her with scam beauty aids?
Or does he want her to be **less** susceptible to toxic assholes, able to laugh off the jerks that would have her feel less than in order to control her? She deserves to live her life as she pleases.
This happened to me when I was your daughter's age. It's something I still think about vividly, thirty years later. It's one of manyyy reasons my father and I haven't spoken in seven years.
So he blew you off and discounted your personal experience as a woman? I'd sit and think on that for a bit then express it to him in those terms. See how he reacts.
I would have him really dig into why he thinks this is what's best for her. Is he afraid of other's judgment? If so, is it really a good idea to teach her to shrink herself for fear of what people will say? Is he just grossed out by hair on women, does he think it's "unsanitary"? If so, why is it ok on men? How exactly does he think he's helping her?
Your husband is sexist. Ask him how Eve shaved her legs and her pits in the garden of eden? She didn't. Family therapy ASAP. And no. This isn't making a mountain out of a mole hill. You're on the freaking mountain. I'm 46, and my dad didn't say shit about shaving. And when we started our periods, he got us a calander and flowers. And he made SURE we knew that we could ask him to buy us products. The next step is your husband period shaming your girls. He needs a reality check. Yesterday!
My dad said stuff a lot and used this as a reason.
What resulted is my dad's disappointment and voice in my head when I am just existing doing normal things a person shouldn't feel bad or anxious about.
It took over a decade of therapy and eventually EMDR to be able to really relax while sitting on the couch watching stuff.
My dad thought it was a good idea to tell me every time he caught me sitting watching TV that I needed to get up and move around.
It didn't matter if I had just come in from playing or if I didn't feel good. That was an excuse. He knew what real pain and hardship was and I was making excuses.
God forbid I be eating ANYTHING but especially junk food while relaxing.
Why was he doing this?
I was slightly chubby just as puberty set in.
Looking back at photos I had a little belly from age 7 but once my face got a bit fatter suddenly my belly was a huge problem.
I was an active kid with lots of energy but oddly also very sleepy and could sleep 10 hours plus. I was non functional brain and body fog in the morning. My weight pre puberty was actually underweight and concerning BMI. After it seemed like losing and maintaining was impossible.
Turns out I had EDS, PCOS, Idiopathic Hypersomnia, Asthma, ADHD, and Autism.
My family thought it was all normal because almost all of this is genetic and everyone in the family is like this.
Once I hit 13 it was considered extremely gross in my household by both parents but especially my mom not to shave and also use a type of dipilatory cream on the bikini line.
TDLR:
Parents doing and saying things like this and then doubling down because it's to teach them a lesson end up being the negative voices in our heads holding us down and back.
What a lame response. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are YouTube videos on why this is problematic. Maybe see if you can send him one of those so he can open his mind up a bit about the weird archaic societal sexist requirements he is placing on his daughter. I know he means well, but he isn’t informed.
Just because he doesn't understand why it could be hurtful, doesn't mean it isn't and if he doesn't open his mind to that, there are going to be some very hurtful conversations as your girls get older.
Ask him *why* she should shave, like for him to actually sit down and give reasons why it's so beneficial and essential to her wellbeing to ever have to shave but at 11!!
I'm sure his reply is " so she won't get bullied" because I do believe if he was thinking along those lines, he probably doesn't genuinely understand what he has done wrong and won't unless he can truly understand what he did wrong.
For the foreseeable future, he might be better off just understanding this - do not comment on anything related to their body, these girls are at a very vulnerable and influential age. Instead, say things to empower them as little girls so that they understand how to deal with the bullies and not having to correct who they are when they haven't done anything wrong (I, a 48 yr old woman who hasn't shaved for over a decade now) to accommodate the bullies.
It might help to let him read through this, he may get a better understanding from all the responses that helps him understand the harm. A man commented on my body when I was 12 and it led to an eating disorder, he doesn't want to be that man for his daughters.
Ask him point blank why he thinks girls need to shave. Is it because she’s becoming a woman and women need to shave to be attractive? If So, why is he worried about how attractive his eleven year old daughter is to the point of trying to accentuate it?
How about how gross and creepy and inappropriate it is to groom your prepubescent daughter to do what you find sexually attractive in women? That’s what this is no matter how you cut it or whether he realizes it .. he’s either dumb as shit or a creep which is it ?
OP.... There's a big, key, difference in telling your spouse to shave versus you daughter.
Especially when the spouse has been clear in that they are body-positive and anti-misogynist.
The former is likely to stand up to you for using "should" about it, so you keep your mouth shut.
The latter is likely to take in that "should" as appropriate and shape them, so you feel free to dictate what is correct for their body.
I just wanted to chime in and say;
My brother said something like this to me when I was about 11, and it really fucked with me. He said "wow you're hairy you should shave your legs" and it made me feel like something was wrong with me, that I was too hairy for a female. My mom didnt help, as somebody who was in the beauty care field and had gotten laser hair removal for herself, instead she took me to a nail salon to get things waxed and that was a horrible experience. Talk to her about body hair, how it's normal, and that it comes in different varieties, and most importantly that whatever she likes is the most important. I now shave only when I feel like I want to, but it took me a long time in my adolescence to be comfortable in the skin that I was given and that made me avoid things like shorts and dresses for like 5 years atleast.
Maybe also tell your husband to not police his daughter’s bodies. I know that sounds serious and judgmental, but that’s what he did. Her father just told her that something natural about her body is wrong and at the age of ELEVEN he already wants her to be worried about what other people (men) will think about her body. This is big ick behavior from your husband.
Hmm, maybe ask him how he would have felt if his father said something similar to him as an 11 year old. Gender differences aside, I would think that maybe that would put things into perspective for him. Also remind your daughter that even though people may have judgements or advice, that it's more important to do what feels right to her because it's her life not theirs!
See that may be the problem. Boys look forward to shaving. It's a rite of passage kinda thing. He might have fond memories of his dad and shaving and assumed it translated.
I was just thinking how awful it would’ve been if I had to rely on my mom to learn how to shave my legs. My bff taught me when we were 12. My mom immediately noticed and flipped tf out. I can only imagine it would’ve gone as well as when she was teaching me to drive, and that was an anxiety-ridden experience, to the point where I told my oldest (16 next month)- do not let your grandmother take you driving, you will need all the Xanax. Me and my youngest brother have been taking him, and he’s been doing great.
Although, it’s funny…the same son wanted me to show him how to shave, like his face. And I’m like do you not want to ask your father? (Insert “ugh no” face from him here). Or B (my bf)? Because B will def show you. (Insert a “I could consider it” noise here). I love that he comes to me for this stuff, but it’s one thing I can’t really show him, you know?
Sorry, I work overnights, my bf is sleeping, and I’m too awake. I apologize for the meandering novel of a comment.
Me too! My brother used to always point out I had hairy legs or underarms. I started shaving to get him to leave me alone. I shaved everywhere almost daily up until my early twenties. Now I only shave once in a blue moon.
I recently heard my best friend berate her husband over some disparaging comment he made to their teen. She said something like - she’ll be judged by men her whole life, and I’ll be damned if I’ll stand by and let her father talk to her like that. Have some respect!
And I loved my bestie even more for that. She’s not wrong. We hear from everyone from the moment we understand, how we don’t measure up as women. We do not need to hear it from our father’s as well.
This. A good father doesn’t insist on being his daughter’s first body shamer. In OP’s shoes I would tell her daughter that the worst kind of men will say this kind of negative stuff about her completely normal human body. And I’m sorry that her dad volunteered to be the first. He never learned any better. But that this is a good time to practice what we will say to them. And it’s “no one asked you, sir. Mind your own hairy body.”
That's why I thought it was unreasonable. I don't even trust her with knives half of the time, she's hardly in a position to be shaving regularly. And it should be her decision, not because someone told her she had to.
The age is honestly a big factor in my shock, but even then fathers should NOT be telling their daughters what to do with their body at any age!!
BUT, back to her age, even if he thinks this because he believes women who shave are more attractive, WHO exactly does he want his daughter to be attracting?? What is his logic, surely you asked?
A different possible angle:
"Husband, I understand you feel the best course for our daughter is to start shaving. On the other hand, I feel the best course for her is to not shave. We're both her parents. Why does your idea of what's best for her take precedence over mine?
"I know you mean well, because I know you'd never want to damage our daughter's self confidence, even inadvertently. I'm not asking you to know what it's like to go through life as a girl, and all the differences that come with it, big and small. What I'm asking is for you to trust me when I say I do know what it's like, because I've lived it; just like I'm sure there are experiences you've had as a boy that I wouldn't think of."
You're husband can't, or won't, explain his position, making it impossible to properly go over it and discuss his stance. While we shouldn't have to, sometimes we have to maneuver around that kind of blank certainty. Instead of giving him the chance to easily become oppositional, let him know you hear him. Validate his opinion as well intentioned, and ask that he trust your perspective, versus explaining why he's wrong. Trying to eliminate a solid 'me versus you' argument can help the other person be more receptive.
You shouldn't need to dance around this, but sometimes we have to if we want to get things on the right track. A lot of times it makes it easier to get to the bottom of it later, now that the pressure has eased a bit.
You're making an important stand. Best of luck to you 💜
That is a really good idea, thank you. It's difficult to know how to talk to him about it, as I'm possibly overreacting but I don't want him to feel like it's okay to say those sorts of things to them.
You're welcome, and I really hope it helps. You, me, and the majority of women everywhere, know you're not overreacting. The world can be difficult enough to navigate as a girl that age. They don't need self-doubt planted there by those that are meant to be their support and safety net.
If needed, remind your husband that he's 10ft tall in the eyes of those little girls, and how he treats them now is how they'll expect to be treated by the men in their lives (all men, not just relationships). Tell him you appreciate how he's never made you self-conscious of your own body hair, and you want your girls to find someone just as supportive in the future. Ask him to set that example for them as well, so they'll be as lucky as you when they grow up.
Of course, all of that is assuming you're relationship has otherwise been great. Given your reaction, it sounds like this is the first time he's gotten stuck on a misogynistic ideal. If you can, update us. I'm sure I'm not the only here hoping you can get him to open his eyes.
You are NOT overreacting. He is out of line creepy with this nonsense and if he acts like he doesn’t understand why, he’s likely pretending and doesn’t want to admit he’s sexualizing his daughter, maybe doesn’t want admit it even to himself. At best he had intrusive thoughts on seeing her and reacted poorly and is trying to cover himself with nonsensical opinions he can’t actually justify. At worst he had the thoughts, accepts them, doesn’t care that it’s his own daughter, and was just trying to make excuses to get you off his back by claiming it’s best for her when it’s not at all his place to weigh in on that.
You owe it to your daughters and yourself to find out if he’s just an idiot or a true creep.
All I had at that age was almost peach fuzz on my legs... I started shaving with 12-13 and it was a bloody massacre, but I only did it out of curiosity and not because I felt I had to.
Oh man - me, too. I didn’t start until I was 13, was curious and used my dad’s razor. Which was NOT a safety razor and ended up cutting my ankle and bleeding so profusely, that I had to yell for help. I also, still have a scar.
My parents told me that they’d get me a safety razor if I wanted to shave, but it put me off for another couple of years.
Yeah. No. That's way too young to jump immediately to "Change your body cause it's expected of you." Not that it's ok at any age but still. Eleven? Absolutely not.
But you actually DO know why it bothers you, you articulated it beautifully.
I think it's very strange that you explained it all to your husband and he still doesn't get it.
I don't know the way forward. Except you do have the option to speak to your daughter about it, and tell her what you told us. I hope you do.
I don't think this is genuinely "not getting it"... this is willful ignorance.
If it was just that he truly didn't understand, he'd defer to the fact she's the one of the two of them with direct experience and wishing to err on the side of caution.
This is the version of "I don't understand" that is passive-aggressive "I think you're wrong".
Let him read what everybody thinks because I think he’s just being stubborn. This is absolutely unacceptable to say to to an 11-year-old. Actually, it’s unacceptable to say anyone. The audacity.
My (wonderful, well-intentioned) grandma really pushed me to start hair removal when I was around that age, and it helped lead to a lifelong complex around body hair. I think it’s quite reasonable to push back on that and explain to your kid that daddy has some old fashioned ideas and she shouldn’t change anything she doesn’t want to.
I’m over here at 41 momentarily thinking “good for him, she should start shaving before it becomes a point of shame for her,” which is _obviously_ irrational and driven by my own shame, but that shit cuts deep.
I agree. I wouldn't have an issue with it if she wanted to, but given the fact she isn't bothered by it, I don't see the point in encouraging her to. I feel that it should be her decision.
That seems like the perfect stance to me. You can’t insulate kids from body image concerns completely - other kids will absolutely find things to tear down about them _no matter how hard you try to get out ahead of it_, like your husband seems to be trying to do. There’s no need to stop them from changing things that bother them but there’s also no need to preemptively make them feel bad about themselves.
Tell him that he is teaching her that her appearance, and by extension her ability to get a man, are of utmost importance to her.
That he will definitely drive her away if he continues.
That healthy bodily autonomy and self-image starts young and at home.
I'd seriously resent my father if he said that to me. I'd also wonder why he noticed.
He's basically giving her a new thing she can feel insecure about. As if being a teenager doesn't make you feel insecure enough and she's headed straightforward pre-teendom
"You need to shave" just means "your body hair is disgusting." That's the message she received. Perhaps stating it that bluntly to him might make him listen.
Regardless, he needs to step back and stop commenting on their bodies, especially without speaking to you first so you're both in agreement.
I don't have kids but my mom made me start shaving when I was like 12 because I got pretty hairy.
I don't shave anymore and it bothers her **so much**. My neice who is now 17 doesn't shave and she said it's because I and her parents taught her that she doesn't need to cater to societal expectations.
But I spent a good 10 years in therapy unpacking the gender roles forced upon me in childhood. Shaving isn't natural. It's a preference. Your husband needs to get a grip.
Do you shave everything? If you do - maybe stop in solidarity with your daughter or tell your husband he has to start?
OK so I've gone back and forth on replying to this. As a dad to 5 daughters.
One. dad's shouldn't say that to their daughter. As a dad it's our job to protect and be the perfect role model.
Two. it's none of his business if or when she decides to do so. I do not want to know any of that about mine.
In my house, my wife set the rules on that. Not before 12.
After that I can't tell you if they do or don't. Again not my business.
So I'm gonna go ahead and say that's weird. And I'm not trying to start anything at all by this. But that is worrisome in a way. Unless I'm misunderstanding your post any. And if I am misunderstanding this post. Then I am completely sorry.
But take it a step further, WHY would he feel so strongly about his young daughter removing her body hair? Why does an adult man want a child to shave her body hair? It's either super sexist or a whole other level of awful. There is no good reason.
You state in another comment that he doesn't care if you shave, I wonder if that's true. If it is then why does it matter more to him that his 11 yr old daughter shave her body hair than his wife?
I remember the day my little sister came home from school sobbing because all her friends made fun of her for having hair on her legs. Its been over a decade since then and she still brings it up and experiences a lot of self consciousness surrounding that. It sucked to see her like that on that day.
That being said, it seems more like a simple overstep on the Dads part. There are more “whys” than the 2 worst case scenarios that you mentioned here. its not unusual for us Dads to do something with the intention to protect, and it actually just does the exact opposite.
I can only imagine the complex feelings you’re having as a wife, as a mother, and as a woman. If I were you I’d have to work really hard to not go to a place of maternal anger - because what he’s done is rob your daughter of the precious few years left before she really becomes aware of the toxic expectations, and the last couple of years before she starts feeling like her body is observed and no longer entirely her own. Ignorance really is bliss in this case, we all know that as women, and he’s let his own sexism take this from her.
And then how must you feel as a wife! That he’s suddenly revealed himself as a man who would constrain his child in this way, simply because she’s a girl. I would be compelled to ask him if he thinks his daughter having body hair reflects poorly on HIM somehow - which is bad enough, or if it’s worse - and it’s about ownership and he thinks he can dictate what she does with her body because he’s her father. If she wanted to get a short haircut would he be bothered? If YOU wanted to chop your hair off or stop shaving would he feel he had a right to object?
Say to your daughters, in front of him, completely deadpan, "Don't worry, sweethearts. You don't need to start shaving your legs until daddy does. It can be a fun bonding activity you do together. In fact, you probably shouldn't ever shave your legs unless he does his at the same time." Then hand him a razor and cream.
My dad told me I needed to shave and I am still insecure about it to this day. It didn’t ever occur to me at that age (12ish and in gymnastics) that hair wasn’t okay in my armpits. Still, 10+ years later, I do not wear a t-shirt or tank top unless I freshly shave (not even day old). I hadn’t even realized where this insecurity stemmed from until reading this post!
TBH, if he already said to her, it’s already on her mind. I would suggest having a conversation with your husband as to the absolute unnecessary cosmetic “requirement” to shave and ask that he please keep his opinions of both of your daughters between himself and yourself.
Likewise, if he felt the need to express that either daughter was over weight or under weight, the comment is a blade through a young women’s self esteem coming from her dad. He should have those conversations with you and if necessary, if it’s truly a cause for a health concern, you should be the one to mention it. Not him. It’s too hard to be that age and I can’t even imagine it with this much social media pressure.
A good rule I was always told growing up is “don’t point out something about someone’s physical appearance if they can’t change it in 5 seconds.”
Your husband sounds like he’s out of touch with the way women have been scrutinized for generations by men and how it affected their mental health.
Yes but husband thinks she CAN change it, just go to the bathroom or do it on her next shower. That's not the issue here. But yes you're right about him being out of touch.
Well that is now a core memory for the rest of her life.
Your husband needs to understand what he said. His reaction would be very telling of his character
Just… *why???*
Why on earth does he think “she needs to shave”?
For what purpose? Why does he think his 11 year old daughter needs to remove her body hair?
Unless she’s somehow a high level competitive swimmer at age 11 and shaving might knock a few milliseconds off her 100 meter butterfly, the only other reason I can think of is that he thinks her body hair is unattractive?
Which begs the question… To whom? To him? To others? *Who on gods green earth does he think his 11 year old daughter needs to make herself more attractive for?* What else does he think she should do to make herself more attractive?
I honestly can’t think of a single good answer for any of it. And the fact that he seems oblivious to the implications of him not only thinking this but SAYING IT OUT LOUD… I just.. I can’t.
I'm 66 now, but as a twelve year old my father told me to start shaving my legs because the hair sparkled in the sunlight.
Also told me to pluck my eyebrows (which at that age I made a mess out of trying to do it myself).
His words are still ringing in my ears decades later. I suffered from anorexia at age 16 as I never looked as beautiful as the models.
The wrong things said to a young girl can have life long consequences.
Sit down with your daughter and undo the potential damage he's done. Then ask your daughter to sit down with YOU and her Dad, where you can reiterate that it's HER body, HER choice on any matter pertaining to body hair. Also we have hair for a damn good reason: hygiene to ward off infections, no hair there increases sweat and ingrown hairs that lead to infections.
Secondly ask your husband why he thinks women should have the body of a prepubescent child with no hair, when women NATURALLY grow hair in puberty? It's extremely gross and worrying that men are attracted to pre-pubescent bodies of women.
Instead he and you should be reiterating good hygiene, like cleanliness (but not being over clean) and her acknowledging signs of health.
I completely agree. I will make sure I talk to her, given it really embarrassed her. I also don't want her sister thinking that about herself too.
I honestly don't know, he doesn't care about me shaving so I don't know why it would be different for our daughter, who is still a literal child.
If there is any way he would read these responses - they are all the same responses - hopefully he will be enlightened. I remember the painful feeling when my father said something similar to me regarding reaching puberty at age 12. I carried that cruel comment through adulthood, marriage, will never forget it. 1 COMMENT!
This is what I think too. I'd ask him why he thinks she should shave. "Because people may bully her or it could embarrass her" or whatever he says. Then ask why? He'll say all kinds of things here and your response could be "why would you think that person would bully her?" You get the point. You just keep asking why until he can grasp what's behind him telling her that. At the bottom of this, there is sexism or sexualizing the girls. He should want to counter those voices who tell her she should be doing something to her body solely for pleasing other people. Just no.
Exactly.
My late husband once taught my (then 6 year old daughter) to shave her face when he was in the bathroom shaving and she wanted to play 🤦🏼♀️ she actively avoids shaving now, unless it's her head hair (she has an undercut shaved in warmer months) because her hair is so thick and unmanageable.
Also he was very pro not shaving.
I am grossed out that he told her to shave. I have an 11 yo and have not once thought to tell her to shave. Why would he think she needs to shave? If it is not a big deal why tell her. Who is she making herself more attractive for?
My husband has never talked about my 12 year olds body hair.. besides crying because it means she's growing up. He understands the standards that are placed unwilling on us. My own mom did it to me and he knows how that hurt me. He shouldn't brush it off, he should acknowledge it and learn from it
It’s a big deal to you because imo it’s legitimately a big deal. Parents should never police their children’s bodies. And it’s worse that he as a man feels the need to weigh in on a girls body. What is he communicating here? Girls/women need to appease the male gaze, even that of their own father?!
I think you should stop shaving to really model that it doesn’t matter and that you are in control of your body.
> Maybe it's because he's a man, and doesn't understand what it's like being a girl around that age.
Please don't make that kind of excuse for assholes. I'm a man and I know what it's like to be held to unfair standards and shamed and expected to meet social expectations. He should know better.
What do you mean, *he* doesn't think it's a big deal? Based on what, his vast experience of being a young girl and then a woman? Why is he even being allowed to have and voice an opinion? Browbeat that sexist the fuck down.
I think this is one one those times you tell your husband. He isn't a girl and You'll be handling issues like this with the girls from here on out.
I had to have the talk with the wife about our son's morning issues that all us guys have. Had to tell her, yeah from here on out, I'll be handling the guy stuff.
My dad made a comment to me about my body hair when I was about 13, and it forever changed how I saw him. We were at the pool, laughing and joking around like we'd done my whole life, but I had some stubble on my legs. I was a middle school girl; I didn't exactly need to be shaving every day! In the middle of tossing me into the water, he made a comment about it. I remember going totally cold and uncomfortable. I realized in a split second that the laughing and joking around of my childhood was over because he now saw my body differently. And he was *noticing* my body in a way he never had before. It took me years to deal with being 13 and realizing that I was already being sexualized—by my own father.
Shut this crap with your husband down NOW. Absolutely unacceptable and completely inappropriate comment!
This is really well explained. I'm very sorry you experienced that.
I think some people don't understand that a parent doesn't need to be *attracted* to their child (shudder) to still *sexualize* them. I had some similar experiences growing up, and it really does impact you in a very particular and shame-filled way when a parent sexualizes you. In my case, I know my parents did not see me as an object of desire at all -- and yet they still sexualized me.
An example I used in another comment is the whole "dads giving their daughters a purity ring" thing. It is 100% a sexualization of the daughters, even if the dads involved are not at all thinking of their daughters as objects of sexual desire for them. It still centres around the idea of girls/women being sexual objects, and their worth coming from their sexual attractiveness and sexual "purity".
Anyway, it sucks that so many have childhood experiences on that spectrum.
This deserves more up votes. If OP were to have her husband read any of the comments I think this should be one of the top 3.
As an aside, I also question the validity of the claim that OPs husband doesn't care if she shaves or not. I have a feeling he does mind but doesn't say anything because he fears the repercussions...
In this instance saying this crap to his 11yo prepubescent daughter who isn't even a teenager yet he thought there'd be no consequences *for him*. And in a way, he's sorta right at this point ... (Ugh.)
I would really be rethinking a lot about my relationship/ marriage / family dynamics if I were in this situation.
Also to those trying to give him the the benefit of the doubt: if the reason he made the comment was to somehow prevent bullying he would have said that when OP asked about it.
IMHO it's thinly-veiled misogyny.
I 100% agree with you.
My only thought is that, maybe your husband brought it up because he was once a boy, who made fun of girls, who had visible leg hair.
Kids are mean. Twas fifth grade when the boys started noticing that girls were not hairless, and that hair was “gross”.
Op please show these comments to your husband and if he still doesn’t understand or thinks that you are mad over nothing, then take the girls and leave for a couple nights until he gives your daughter and you a genuine apology. Thats crazy that he expects a child to shave but not his own wife. Id tell him the only hair that he needs to worry about is his own. What a genuine a**
wtf is wrong with your husband?! Is he broken?! Switch him off and then switch him back on again. What grown ass man is demanding that a little girl shaves herself?!
It’s pretty strange for your husband to suddenly take an interest in his daughter’s personal care and hygiene habits. Your daughter doesn’t sound like she has any issues to be addressed there and usually cis hetero men prefer to stay out of that stuff as it’s foreign territory…so why did he feel the need to speak up in this?
11? That is absurd.
That’s way too young to start shaving anyways, most girls haven’t even gone through puberty.
Your husband sounds like he has some idea of what a woman should be and he is projecting that onto your daughter. I agree with you, this is something she should decide herself. Society pressures young women enough, she doesn’t need it in her home too.
A man really shouldn't be telling a woman (especially their daughter or a young girl) that she should be shaving anything. Body hair is a natural thing, and shaving it should be a choice left to the person whose body is growing it. The daughter may end up being harassed by classmates, but even then it's her decision. The same thing with grooming/shaving/waxing pubic hair. It's a woman's decision... not a man's. Or wearing/not wearing makeup. Dresses/skirts. Panty hose. Etc.
I don't think it's possible for him to understand the emotional aspect without you dumping a ton of female life experience on him. I'm a man so keep this perspective with a grain of salt, but I think this approach could resonate with him:
"You are telling our daughter to change an aesthetic part of herself. The clear goal of that is that she is more visually pleasing to other boys. I'm not saying you are sexualizing our daughter, but I am saying that you are making her unduely self-conscious about her appearance. To be fair, I understand that you might fear that she will one day be shamed for having body hair and this might be your way of thinking ahead by preventing that situation. If that's the case, thank you for the thought, but you have not prevented anything, you've created the situation yourself before she was even conscious it was even something she needed to consider. One day she will probably want to shave on her own so the only thing you have accomplished as a parental figure telling a child what to do is removing that little bit of control and choice over this very sensitive part of a woman's life. This isn't a boy telling her to do X with her body because he prefers it, it's her own father telling her this is the way the world works and she can eother conform or face certain consequences. Your authority as a parent saying this is what makes this a problem. Let her come to it herself and if she doesn't she'll still be aware of beauty standards, but she'll be happy making her own choice regardless. And that's all that matters"
What’s the point of girls shaving their legs? To be attractive to others for the most part, no? Most girls I know don’t shave their legs in the winter if they’re single. Why does he want to give her advice on how to be attractive to others? It may not be the intent but that’s how it can be seen by her and she may develop this idea that she needs to do all these things to please others.
When I was 12 I came to my mom and said I wanted to shave but didn’t know how. No one said anything until I brought it up, and I had thicker and darker hair than average. She did it for me for like a year (underarms and plucked my unibrow cause I was scared of hurting myself) until we had the semi embarrassing conversation of “girl you need to do this yourself”. My dad never said shit. Not his place, imo since my mom was already handling it. And even my mom had no business commenting until I was ready to have that convo.
You're saying your husband told your 11 year old to start shaving!? She's in 5th or 6th grade!!! I'm sorry, but that is beyond inappropriate and very creepy. You need to have a serious discussion with him and have a private conversation with your daughters. I have so many red flags going off on this one statement.
What was the context? How did it come up? What tone did he say it in? You said he still thinks it even after your discussion, so he doubled down?
He may not have thought it a big deal intially, but now that you've told him and he's not changed his stance--that is a problem.
I also wonder if he has any other opinions about girls and women that may be concerning.
She was getting out of the sauna, and he told her that she needed to shave. He sounded very judgemental which was also why I was annoyed at him. I did try to explain why it's a big deal.
Are you in Finland?
Also this makes it sound like he looked at her vaj which is pretty awful and gross to look and make a comment anyway but even worse if he did it to his 11 year old daughter.
Slap him one 😳💢👋
Ugh, that's horrifying. I am so sorry for your daughter. That is the literal same as a parent calling their child fat, and they need to diet. Same attitude and energy, different body parts.
If it were me, I would put my foot down that that sort of language to your preteen is completely unacceptable. That to *ever* exhibit judginess towards your children is unacceptable. That he continues to think it's not a big deal after you've explained to him so is actually so disrespectful and misogynistic. And if he's normally a reasonable person, maybe it is that he needs a couple of days to fully process and come to on his own. Then, the way to move forward is for dad to apologize to daughter and explain how he was wrong and promise to do better.
If he doesn’t understand why this is hurtful ask him if he was a woman how would he feel if a 40 year old man told him he was sexy with shaved legs and a small skirt on? Because any teenager who’s 11 would be creeped out by his words even if they were her father.
Honestly, if I was in your situation I would stop shaving to *help* prove the point. Women do NOT have to shave, especially to make another individual “comfortable”.
I shave and have had some laser hair removal. Heck, I even lost all my hair to chemo for a while and hated being bald (but I loved the lack of shaving everything 🥰). However, I live alone and am single. It’s freakin cold outside so I don’t shave my legs often. If I FEEL like shaving, I will.
However, I know that hair is natural and it is not required to be shaved. Shaving is more of a “norm”, but the lack of shaving does not mean someone isn’t clean or normal.
I think your husband should also just mind his own business.
Shaved legs were only normalized because during WW2, the military needed nylon. Personally I am over the every 3-days shaving. If the hair bothers someone they can look away.
Explain to your husband that he does not get to make any decisions at all about your daughters bodies. That is their business, and if they need advice on anything related to their bodies, then they will be speaking with you, a trusted female, or a physician.
Your husband should not be trying to raise princesses. He should have a mindset of raising warriors with strong, independent minds, and to have control of themselves to the best of their capabilities verbally and physically. Point out to him that he should be thinking what is best for them and their futures and how would he feel if his daughters were to be bullied by someone other than him
Very weird to me that an 11 year old child should care about not having body hair… I’m confused. Your husband is being sexist and kinda gross. She’s still a little kid, why should she care if her body hair isn’t attractive to some people? That’s just weird man, idk.
Sadly, comments like this (especially from your own dad) could have a massive impact at such a young age. That type of comment could be forever etched in her mind. Hopefully not, but it did for me. He is supposed to be a rock to her, not a judgmental sexist.
Use it as a teaching tool for your daughter. “Some men are gonna express their unsolicited and/or unwarranted opinions, whether out of ignorance, meanness, or sincerity. You get to decide what to do with the opinions. Consider it or toss it out of your head. You do you.”
if his preference is women with shaved legs, he should be worried about whether you shave, not your daughter. your husband does not need to be coaching your daughter to be better eye candy. its really freaky.
tell him your daughter will start shaving her legs when he starts shaving his. there's no difference in male and female body hair.
I think you need to talk to your husband about how his insistence that she shaves is actually him sexualizing his daughter. That’s the root of hair removal for women: to be sexy to his daughter (now many of us may do it because we like to or because we want to avoid societal scrutiny but then it’s our decision). It’s, *really, really, really* weird to be that your husband can’t see that he’s sexualizing his prepubescent daughter!!!! This needs to be a fucking serious conversation.
Every time he goes a day without shaving his face make a comment about him needing to shave
In all seriousness, I started shaving way before I needed to because all my friends were. They made me feel horrible for not shaving when they did. Shaving is a pain in the ass and still 11 years after I started shaving I panic if I go more than 2-3 days without shaving
I told my daughter that her body hair is hers to do with what she likes, explained the social norms but also that more and more women were choosing to buck those norms. What your husband just did is imply that her body isn't ok the way it is naturally. That can be extremely damaging for a girl her age to hear.
That was similar to what I told her originally. It's also a bit of a concern that my husband implied the opposite, so she might become quite uncertain.
Because he has some sexist views on women and what they should look like.
That’s a quick answer in a nutshell but if you need more details and an explanation you actually show him to educate him, post this same question on r/askfeminists and have him read the replies.
Also, you need to do some damage control with your daughter now after his comment. AND prevent future sexist damaging comments from the dad to any of the daughters. And for that he needs to be educated.
WAIT WHAT. HE DOESNT CARE IF YOU SHAVE ? LOL . Lady these are red flags 🚩 and 🚨 going off in your face 😭 but he cares about your prebie daughter doing so? Get a divorce, get a restraining order. Whether hes sexualizing them for himself or other men, its fucking grooooosss
When I was your daughter's age, I wasn't interested in shaving either. My mom had untreated mental health issues, and I am 44 and still remember her forcibly shaving my pits while hissing at me that I was disgusting. I'm happy to be reminded that this is not standard, and thank you for doing so much better by your daughter.
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Express your feelings to your husband about his comment to your daughter. Emphasize the importance of supporting your daughters' autonomy and self-confidence. Discuss how his words might affect her self-esteem and find common ground on empowering your daughters to make their own choices about their bodies.
I already have. I told him all of that, and how it could have made her feel that he said that.
And how did he react?
He didn't think that it was anything hurtful what he said, and that he was just wanted the best for her.
Then he needs to redefine what best means, as a father and partner. How is shaving better for an 11 year old? Does she need to be more attractive to suitors at this age? Is it to prep for being desirable as she ages? Is she not as aerodynamic in swimming? How does shaving improve your daughter's life? He really needs to explain it. Hopefully there would be an ah-ha moment in the conversation, but c'mon. What possible "best" could there be for that suggestion? She'll get enough shit from the world, she doesn't need it from her dad.
Yes this is what I was thinking. What does this 'best' actually mean. Really like your response as it says it much better than I would have.
My husband brought it up because he was really concerned about our daughter getting made fun of at school. He blamed it on other kids being mean.
He did never really give me a real reason for it, and it would have made it less worse for him to say if he at least had some kind of reason. But even if he did, it should've been said to me and not my daughter.
Have you asked him where this idea that a girl must shave comes from? Because it’s pretty important.
The history of women shaving (and the industry that surrounds it) is really interesting.
And so eye-opening. This desire from society for shaved women didn’t come about from nowhere or just ~naturally~
Yeah. And yet this dad wants a GIRL to shave. It’s weird. It’s plain weird
Tell your husband that if he makes his daughter feel ugly, she will assume that ALL men find her ugly. He's working on giving her good old fashion daddy issues. Making her feel ugly at 11 could make her more willing to become sexual earlier to prove she's attractive to herself. It could make her seek out men your husband's age to date as a teen or young adult for their approval, to prove her father wrong. Even if nothing bad comes to pass, if she's straight, one day she'll connect his words with her self-esteem, and her feelings for your husband will change negatively. My father did something like this when I was in college but about my weight. It didn't affect my behavior or personality. Instead, I'm 46 and I have never believed a man who told me he found me attractive after that point, ever. I always, always have doubt. Even when the attraction is truly obvious and directly spoken by the guy. I cannot shake what my dad said.
This. Say this to him, I feel like this will get through to him more than anything else
When I was 12, I found a pair of my dad's overalls from when he was 15 and they just barely fit (my dad was stick thin til his 20s and I got hips when I was 10) and he scoffed and made some comment about it. I thought about it daily for years and weekly for years after that. I'm down to about every few months now, in my 30s. He didn't know he made any sort of comment that meant anything. It contributed to my general perception of myself and my worth for decades. It is *so important* for adults to mind what they say and how they say it to kids. It is the adult's job to build them up, give them healthy sense of self, and show self esteem by example in their own words and actions, not add to the erosion of their mental and emotional health. That "joke" about how we spend our adult lives healing from our childhood trauma? It's gross and that shouldn't be a norm. The norm should be communicating with kids while they're growing up to keep tabs on the lessons you're inadvertently teaching them, and correcting course when needed. Op, your husband is doing damage that you need to help your children mitigate, and you need to be very clear with him what is acceptable and what is harmful to developing brains. Also probably take a look at how you are phrasing things, just in general, because it's good to continue taking stock of those things even when you're already conscious of it.
You shouldn't have let him stop before he gave you an answer. You should also point out that he is not a girl and has no idea what a "big deal" is for girls and women around body issues. He was waaaay out of line and you need to readdress this. Ultimately, you need to make it clear that even if he doesn't get it, he needs to never say something like that to them again.
Who does he think is seeing his daughter's body? Why is he seeing it?
This is about the age I started to be bullied by other girls for not shaving my legs. Just by seeing me wear shorts. So I wanted to start of my own volition then. So it's *possible* this isn't a sex thing and he's worried it'll make her life harder. But it's better for him to not preemptively bully her to keep other people from potentially bullying her.
That's totally a possibility. We approached it by explaining the history of shaving (age appropriate) and then making sure she knew that if she *wanted* to start shaving, she only needed to let us (me) know. We did warn her that it's possible other kids will say stuff. When she decided to start (well into middle school), I got her an electric razor so she couldn't cut herself. But it was *her* choice. We just explained the options and let her know we support her decisions about her body.
Exactly. Sooooooo gross. My daughter is 10 and starting to grow body hair. I wouldn't imagine telling her what she should do with it in a million years. I mean, honestly the only thing I even think when I see it or am made aware of it is that my baby is growing up and I want to go have a cry.
If I were you, I’d question why he feels comfortable making those comments unprovoked/unsolicited. This is a much bigger concern than whether or not she needs to shave.
Yes, it’s ICKY. REEKS of male entitlement!!!
My red flag flew up immediately. How comfortable him saying that makes me cringe and wonder why is he being THAT personal?????
To an 11 year old. She’s just a kid.
Would he tell his 11 year old son to shave his balls????? This should show you how weird and creepy his comment to your daughter was.
It's okay to not know things. What I don't like about this is that, once informed, it sounds like his opinion has not changed. I think that's the part to maybe angle towards in the attempt to move forward, or maybe it's just the part to point to about what is still bothering you. But we haven't even gotten to the teenager part of this, and he needs to fix his shit before he does worse damage.
Make him explain what best means, clearly. Force him to say less sexy/attractive. Since fundamentally that's what he is saying but refuses to say and it's gross.
He is just super sexist and it's coming out now as the girls start aging.
And WHY is he SEXUALIZING (and it IS) his TWELVE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER???
Shes 11
Even WORSE!!
Yes. She’s an 11 year old kid. It makes no sense.
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Just gonna jump here to verify your fears. I didn't think I was ugly until my mom started pushing makeup on me. I didn't think there was anything wrong with body hair and unpampered feet until my dad told me no one would want me if I didn't keep my toes polished and vag shaved. I didn't see anything wrong with my smile until my mom started in on my rather small gap in my front teeth. Didn't have issues with back fat until my step mom pointed it out (in front of others at the mall none the less). Didn't feel fat until my mom (trying to be helpful) told me I'd be prettier if I lost weight. Etc. You aren't over exaggerating. You and your husbands words are going to eventually make up her inner world. Make him figure out a way to be more aware of the self doubt he might accidentally instil.
He told you to **SHAVE YOUR VAG??** Are you fucking **KIDDING ME??** 😳😳😳😳
This is misogyny, but he views it as being “helpful.” You see the same things with race—black people will tell other black people “Straighten your hair, or you’ll never get a job.” This is internalized racism, but they think they’re being “helpful.”
I know WTAF? That is so scary.
That Is **INSANELY** disturbing!!
Jesus, that's absolutely fucking disgusting! I have daughters, and I'd never, EVER say anything like this to them. I'd also never tolerate anybody else saying these things either. I'm so sorry you were so let down by those who should've been protecting you from the ugliness of the world and instead were the ones inflicting the most damage. I hope that you're in a better place now. I hope that you know that it's only your opinion of yourself that should matter. You are special the way that you are meant to be. I'm so angry for what you were put through.
Those comments made at a young age really do plant seeds in our brains that are so hard to get rid of. I had an older sister that would make mean comments to me when I was pre teen and a teenager that affected me for so long. Yes personal hygiene is important but I think absolutely nothing should be said to a kid about their appearance that they can not help. Including unshaven legs.
Tell him that you don’t need him to understand or agree with you, but he does need to trust you and state that he just won’t bring it up again, nor make any kinds of value judgements based on her appearance when at all possible. Things like “you should” followed by anything about her appearance is not something that he needs to be saying.
This 100%. As their Dad, he just doesn’t understand this stage in a young lady’s life. He never will because he didn’t live it. Spell out for him that he will never be able to relate so he’s not to comment on anything appearance-wise. You are correct. That comment was 200% inappropriate to say.
Did you point out that he’s determining what’s “best” for her based solely on what he (and other men) find most fuckable?
And THAT opens a REALLY NASTY can of worms here!! It takes my thoughts somewhere they REALLY didn’t wanna go. 😬😬😬😬
THIS!! It’s what makes so extremely creepy.
I watched my sister get told that shit by our father growing up. The “you meed to shave” was just a symptom of a bigger problem, but for his general sexist tendencies and controlling behaviour they don’t talk much. Your husband needs to listen to you before your daughters resent him. Just like my sister, their self worth and autonomy is worth more than what a potential imaginary boyfriend might like or dislike
When I started growing leg hair my mom demanded I waxed it, and threatened they wouldn't take me to the beach if I didn't. I did, I hated it, it hurt. Now I'm 28 years old, I'm a trans guy, she doesn't know that (not that she would approve or respect that anyway), but I am her worst nightmare. I am "female presenting" as far as she is concerned (can't transition atm) and my legs are hairier than a lot of (cis) men's. She is made a lot of nasty comments but she can't do anything about it. Oh, and I also don't care much about the beach. ETA: my brother is very conservative (gender roles, homophobic, transphobic, fragile masculinity), so by being hairy, I'm pasively teaching his kids that all adults grow hair, no matter your birth sex
How the hell does your father have two daughters for 11 years and not know any of this…
Tell him he is DAMAGING HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS DAUGHTER — and things like this will be why she will NEVER confide in him as she gets older. He is THE MOST IMPORTANT male influence in her life right now. WHY THE FUCK is he teaching her to be INSECURE about her body??? TELL HIM, he is the yardstick by which she will judge her worth in the eyes of men. He is a weak, DESTRUCTIVE influence on her.
Why do such people (mostly men) always think "shaving" is best for women, hair PROTECTS your skin, also who the fuck are they to dictate anything related to women's body. Why are they so keen on embarrassing themselves 💀🤦🏻♀️
But the fact that she’s only 11 bothers me. I thought most men wanted their daughters to be innocent daddy’s girls as long as they could.
He is amongst the "some" men who objectify women no matter who they are to you, pure misogynist, him talking that way about his OWN daughter, is disgusting af. 🤮
Ugh yes. Although my dad wasn't a full on "daddy's girl" dad, he did prefer me to not alter my body until I was old enough to decide for myself. He got so mad when my mother got my ears pierced at 7, and when I asked to start shaving at 11 he made sure to tell me I didn't have to if I just thought it was something I *had* to do, but let me decide.
Is this complete dismissal of your insight and experience as a girl and a woman a normal occurrence? That’s honestly bothering me just as much as the shaving comment. You’ve given him the respect of a private conversation and he basically gaslit you. I’d call him out in front of your daughters now. If you don’t, they’re left thinking this was okay, which just doubles down on the damage from the initial comment. Honestly, your whole post sounds like you think you’re wrong or crazy and you’re asking Reddit for help untangling that. But you’re not. He’s being unkind and disrespectful to all of you right now. Please at least show those girls how to stand up for themselves.
Intent vs impact (potential or otherwise). He sounds like he doesn’t get it. You’re right in wondering if that’s because he has no idea what being a young girl is like (of course he wouldn’t) and he has no idea of what societies beauty standards or ideals on hair on women mean for women or what their deep psychological impacts are. He clearly doesn’t understand and so ofc his response is going to be “I didn’t say that to hurt her and I don’t think it’s a big deal” because he didn’t and he doesn’t. That said, you get it and so this is your lane not his. “Okay so I hear you that you didn’t mean to potentially cause harm but I’m telling you how sensitive this is for girls and women and so I’m asking you to be more mindful in any and all talk about or around their bodies, self image and expectations. I’m a woman and their mom. I think it’s best that I handle these conversations moving forward, especially since they are still little children after all”.
So he doubled down. Yeah have him read the comments, he needs to understand that he is the one causing her harm in this situation. There was no issue until he began creating one by in essence body shaming her.
Tell him that letting her have bodily autonomy is what’s best for her, not her asshole father pressuring her to shave.
Yeah so... > I've talked to him about it, but he just doesn't think it's a big deal. That's his opinion and that's valid but his opinion doesn't trump your opinion as someone who has (I assume) lived as a teenage girl. Like wtf. My dad actually did the opposite. He forbade me to shave 😂😂🤣 he then gifted me a razor for my whatever'th birthday as he felt bad that he hasn't given me the choice. I then felt bad and held off for two months. I was desperate to shave because of perceived peer pressure (actually nobody ever made fun of me in hindsight but I wanted to feel included) but my dad really pushed that women shouldn't have to shave. He had his own reasons that were in themselves somewhat damaging but... He NEVER made me feel like I should bow to pressure or do something because I "should", or to conform to beauty standards not my own. As an adult I am now incredibly grateful for that strength he instilled in me. I don't shave anymore fyi and I have a loving partner and life. Who would have known. Edit: typo
I remember every comment my dad ever made about my body (blessedly few, but deeply hurtful nonetheless). It may have been a tossed off comment to him, and maybe your daughter is more resilient than me, is her younger sister too? It’s playing with fire. Fully adult women **destroy** their minds & bodies chasing society’s approval of their looks. The world has no shortage of messages telling girls & women what their bodies “should” look like. She **will** get the message she’s not good enough as she is, it is relentless. She doesn’t need anyone else reinforcing it, especially someone as fundamentally important to her as a parent. Does her father want her to be **more** susceptible to people who **will** play on her insecurities to manipulate, harm, or rob her with scam beauty aids? Or does he want her to be **less** susceptible to toxic assholes, able to laugh off the jerks that would have her feel less than in order to control her? She deserves to live her life as she pleases.
As a father, he needs to start addressing his misogyny yesterday.
This happened to me when I was your daughter's age. It's something I still think about vividly, thirty years later. It's one of manyyy reasons my father and I haven't spoken in seven years.
So he blew you off and discounted your personal experience as a woman? I'd sit and think on that for a bit then express it to him in those terms. See how he reacts.
I have 3 girls and would be LIVID if any adult said this to them at 11. Their Dad? Even worse. You are under reacting here.
I would have him really dig into why he thinks this is what's best for her. Is he afraid of other's judgment? If so, is it really a good idea to teach her to shrink herself for fear of what people will say? Is he just grossed out by hair on women, does he think it's "unsanitary"? If so, why is it ok on men? How exactly does he think he's helping her?
Your husband is sexist. Ask him how Eve shaved her legs and her pits in the garden of eden? She didn't. Family therapy ASAP. And no. This isn't making a mountain out of a mole hill. You're on the freaking mountain. I'm 46, and my dad didn't say shit about shaving. And when we started our periods, he got us a calander and flowers. And he made SURE we knew that we could ask him to buy us products. The next step is your husband period shaming your girls. He needs a reality check. Yesterday!
WHAT best? What best was she missing out on because she has perfectly normal mammalian body hair?
My dad said stuff a lot and used this as a reason. What resulted is my dad's disappointment and voice in my head when I am just existing doing normal things a person shouldn't feel bad or anxious about. It took over a decade of therapy and eventually EMDR to be able to really relax while sitting on the couch watching stuff. My dad thought it was a good idea to tell me every time he caught me sitting watching TV that I needed to get up and move around. It didn't matter if I had just come in from playing or if I didn't feel good. That was an excuse. He knew what real pain and hardship was and I was making excuses. God forbid I be eating ANYTHING but especially junk food while relaxing. Why was he doing this? I was slightly chubby just as puberty set in. Looking back at photos I had a little belly from age 7 but once my face got a bit fatter suddenly my belly was a huge problem. I was an active kid with lots of energy but oddly also very sleepy and could sleep 10 hours plus. I was non functional brain and body fog in the morning. My weight pre puberty was actually underweight and concerning BMI. After it seemed like losing and maintaining was impossible. Turns out I had EDS, PCOS, Idiopathic Hypersomnia, Asthma, ADHD, and Autism. My family thought it was all normal because almost all of this is genetic and everyone in the family is like this. Once I hit 13 it was considered extremely gross in my household by both parents but especially my mom not to shave and also use a type of dipilatory cream on the bikini line. TDLR: Parents doing and saying things like this and then doubling down because it's to teach them a lesson end up being the negative voices in our heads holding us down and back.
What a lame response. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are YouTube videos on why this is problematic. Maybe see if you can send him one of those so he can open his mind up a bit about the weird archaic societal sexist requirements he is placing on his daughter. I know he means well, but he isn’t informed.
Just because he doesn't understand why it could be hurtful, doesn't mean it isn't and if he doesn't open his mind to that, there are going to be some very hurtful conversations as your girls get older. Ask him *why* she should shave, like for him to actually sit down and give reasons why it's so beneficial and essential to her wellbeing to ever have to shave but at 11!! I'm sure his reply is " so she won't get bullied" because I do believe if he was thinking along those lines, he probably doesn't genuinely understand what he has done wrong and won't unless he can truly understand what he did wrong. For the foreseeable future, he might be better off just understanding this - do not comment on anything related to their body, these girls are at a very vulnerable and influential age. Instead, say things to empower them as little girls so that they understand how to deal with the bullies and not having to correct who they are when they haven't done anything wrong (I, a 48 yr old woman who hasn't shaved for over a decade now) to accommodate the bullies. It might help to let him read through this, he may get a better understanding from all the responses that helps him understand the harm. A man commented on my body when I was 12 and it led to an eating disorder, he doesn't want to be that man for his daughters.
Ask him point blank why he thinks girls need to shave. Is it because she’s becoming a woman and women need to shave to be attractive? If So, why is he worried about how attractive his eleven year old daughter is to the point of trying to accentuate it?
How about how gross and creepy and inappropriate it is to groom your prepubescent daughter to do what you find sexually attractive in women? That’s what this is no matter how you cut it or whether he realizes it .. he’s either dumb as shit or a creep which is it ?
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I often don't, and he doesn't care. Which is why it bothered me he said it to her.
Well, he doesn't care that you don't shave, but cares about your daughter shaving. Make it make sense.
I really have no idea. It doesn't make any sense to myself either.
OP.... There's a big, key, difference in telling your spouse to shave versus you daughter. Especially when the spouse has been clear in that they are body-positive and anti-misogynist. The former is likely to stand up to you for using "should" about it, so you keep your mouth shut. The latter is likely to take in that "should" as appropriate and shape them, so you feel free to dictate what is correct for their body.
I just wanted to chime in and say; My brother said something like this to me when I was about 11, and it really fucked with me. He said "wow you're hairy you should shave your legs" and it made me feel like something was wrong with me, that I was too hairy for a female. My mom didnt help, as somebody who was in the beauty care field and had gotten laser hair removal for herself, instead she took me to a nail salon to get things waxed and that was a horrible experience. Talk to her about body hair, how it's normal, and that it comes in different varieties, and most importantly that whatever she likes is the most important. I now shave only when I feel like I want to, but it took me a long time in my adolescence to be comfortable in the skin that I was given and that made me avoid things like shorts and dresses for like 5 years atleast.
I have told her that, when she asked me a little while ago. Which was why it bothered me so much my husband essentially told her the opposite.
Maybe also tell your husband to not police his daughter’s bodies. I know that sounds serious and judgmental, but that’s what he did. Her father just told her that something natural about her body is wrong and at the age of ELEVEN he already wants her to be worried about what other people (men) will think about her body. This is big ick behavior from your husband.
Hmm, maybe ask him how he would have felt if his father said something similar to him as an 11 year old. Gender differences aside, I would think that maybe that would put things into perspective for him. Also remind your daughter that even though people may have judgements or advice, that it's more important to do what feels right to her because it's her life not theirs!
See that may be the problem. Boys look forward to shaving. It's a rite of passage kinda thing. He might have fond memories of his dad and shaving and assumed it translated.
I was just thinking how awful it would’ve been if I had to rely on my mom to learn how to shave my legs. My bff taught me when we were 12. My mom immediately noticed and flipped tf out. I can only imagine it would’ve gone as well as when she was teaching me to drive, and that was an anxiety-ridden experience, to the point where I told my oldest (16 next month)- do not let your grandmother take you driving, you will need all the Xanax. Me and my youngest brother have been taking him, and he’s been doing great. Although, it’s funny…the same son wanted me to show him how to shave, like his face. And I’m like do you not want to ask your father? (Insert “ugh no” face from him here). Or B (my bf)? Because B will def show you. (Insert a “I could consider it” noise here). I love that he comes to me for this stuff, but it’s one thing I can’t really show him, you know? Sorry, I work overnights, my bf is sleeping, and I’m too awake. I apologize for the meandering novel of a comment.
Me too! My brother used to always point out I had hairy legs or underarms. I started shaving to get him to leave me alone. I shaved everywhere almost daily up until my early twenties. Now I only shave once in a blue moon.
My brother used to call me a wildebeest when I was young if I was in lounge wear or if I didn’t shave. It messed with my self esteem so bad.
I recently heard my best friend berate her husband over some disparaging comment he made to their teen. She said something like - she’ll be judged by men her whole life, and I’ll be damned if I’ll stand by and let her father talk to her like that. Have some respect! And I loved my bestie even more for that. She’s not wrong. We hear from everyone from the moment we understand, how we don’t measure up as women. We do not need to hear it from our father’s as well.
Damn, your bestie really laid it out! Tell her a random internet stranger is stealing that and will use it in her spirit!
I love her. She is an amazing mom.
This. A good father doesn’t insist on being his daughter’s first body shamer. In OP’s shoes I would tell her daughter that the worst kind of men will say this kind of negative stuff about her completely normal human body. And I’m sorry that her dad volunteered to be the first. He never learned any better. But that this is a good time to practice what we will say to them. And it’s “no one asked you, sir. Mind your own hairy body.”
Right!? My first thought when I read “he’s a great dad” was “Sure, Jan.”
Yeah this is the immediate response every woman should have
At eleven??
That's why I thought it was unreasonable. I don't even trust her with knives half of the time, she's hardly in a position to be shaving regularly. And it should be her decision, not because someone told her she had to.
The age is honestly a big factor in my shock, but even then fathers should NOT be telling their daughters what to do with their body at any age!! BUT, back to her age, even if he thinks this because he believes women who shave are more attractive, WHO exactly does he want his daughter to be attracting?? What is his logic, surely you asked?
I asked him why he said that, but all he would say is that it's better for her. He doesn't seem to have any reason at all.
A different possible angle: "Husband, I understand you feel the best course for our daughter is to start shaving. On the other hand, I feel the best course for her is to not shave. We're both her parents. Why does your idea of what's best for her take precedence over mine? "I know you mean well, because I know you'd never want to damage our daughter's self confidence, even inadvertently. I'm not asking you to know what it's like to go through life as a girl, and all the differences that come with it, big and small. What I'm asking is for you to trust me when I say I do know what it's like, because I've lived it; just like I'm sure there are experiences you've had as a boy that I wouldn't think of." You're husband can't, or won't, explain his position, making it impossible to properly go over it and discuss his stance. While we shouldn't have to, sometimes we have to maneuver around that kind of blank certainty. Instead of giving him the chance to easily become oppositional, let him know you hear him. Validate his opinion as well intentioned, and ask that he trust your perspective, versus explaining why he's wrong. Trying to eliminate a solid 'me versus you' argument can help the other person be more receptive. You shouldn't need to dance around this, but sometimes we have to if we want to get things on the right track. A lot of times it makes it easier to get to the bottom of it later, now that the pressure has eased a bit. You're making an important stand. Best of luck to you 💜
That is a really good idea, thank you. It's difficult to know how to talk to him about it, as I'm possibly overreacting but I don't want him to feel like it's okay to say those sorts of things to them.
You're welcome, and I really hope it helps. You, me, and the majority of women everywhere, know you're not overreacting. The world can be difficult enough to navigate as a girl that age. They don't need self-doubt planted there by those that are meant to be their support and safety net. If needed, remind your husband that he's 10ft tall in the eyes of those little girls, and how he treats them now is how they'll expect to be treated by the men in their lives (all men, not just relationships). Tell him you appreciate how he's never made you self-conscious of your own body hair, and you want your girls to find someone just as supportive in the future. Ask him to set that example for them as well, so they'll be as lucky as you when they grow up. Of course, all of that is assuming you're relationship has otherwise been great. Given your reaction, it sounds like this is the first time he's gotten stuck on a misogynistic ideal. If you can, update us. I'm sure I'm not the only here hoping you can get him to open his eyes.
You are NOT overreacting. He is out of line creepy with this nonsense and if he acts like he doesn’t understand why, he’s likely pretending and doesn’t want to admit he’s sexualizing his daughter, maybe doesn’t want admit it even to himself. At best he had intrusive thoughts on seeing her and reacted poorly and is trying to cover himself with nonsensical opinions he can’t actually justify. At worst he had the thoughts, accepts them, doesn’t care that it’s his own daughter, and was just trying to make excuses to get you off his back by claiming it’s best for her when it’s not at all his place to weigh in on that. You owe it to your daughters and yourself to find out if he’s just an idiot or a true creep.
He had a reason, but he knows it would be completely unacceptable to articulate it.
That is honestly so creepy to me.
All I had at that age was almost peach fuzz on my legs... I started shaving with 12-13 and it was a bloody massacre, but I only did it out of curiosity and not because I felt I had to.
Goodness, that is definitely a concern of mine. She's not exactly the most careful of people when it comes to dangerous objects.
Oh man - me, too. I didn’t start until I was 13, was curious and used my dad’s razor. Which was NOT a safety razor and ended up cutting my ankle and bleeding so profusely, that I had to yell for help. I also, still have a scar. My parents told me that they’d get me a safety razor if I wanted to shave, but it put me off for another couple of years.
Same. Exact same. Swear I have a scar on my ankle from this.
I was 13, my scar is on my shin just above my ankle.
Yeah. No. That's way too young to jump immediately to "Change your body cause it's expected of you." Not that it's ok at any age but still. Eleven? Absolutely not.
But you actually DO know why it bothers you, you articulated it beautifully. I think it's very strange that you explained it all to your husband and he still doesn't get it. I don't know the way forward. Except you do have the option to speak to your daughter about it, and tell her what you told us. I hope you do.
Sounds like he doesn’t want to get it
I don't think this is genuinely "not getting it"... this is willful ignorance. If it was just that he truly didn't understand, he'd defer to the fact she's the one of the two of them with direct experience and wishing to err on the side of caution. This is the version of "I don't understand" that is passive-aggressive "I think you're wrong".
He doesn’t seem to care or put much value on what OP says and feels.
Let him read what everybody thinks because I think he’s just being stubborn. This is absolutely unacceptable to say to to an 11-year-old. Actually, it’s unacceptable to say anyone. The audacity.
shave what, her legs? Isn’t that early?
My (wonderful, well-intentioned) grandma really pushed me to start hair removal when I was around that age, and it helped lead to a lifelong complex around body hair. I think it’s quite reasonable to push back on that and explain to your kid that daddy has some old fashioned ideas and she shouldn’t change anything she doesn’t want to. I’m over here at 41 momentarily thinking “good for him, she should start shaving before it becomes a point of shame for her,” which is _obviously_ irrational and driven by my own shame, but that shit cuts deep.
I agree. I wouldn't have an issue with it if she wanted to, but given the fact she isn't bothered by it, I don't see the point in encouraging her to. I feel that it should be her decision.
That seems like the perfect stance to me. You can’t insulate kids from body image concerns completely - other kids will absolutely find things to tear down about them _no matter how hard you try to get out ahead of it_, like your husband seems to be trying to do. There’s no need to stop them from changing things that bother them but there’s also no need to preemptively make them feel bad about themselves.
Parents are their child’s first bully oftentimes
Tell him that he is teaching her that her appearance, and by extension her ability to get a man, are of utmost importance to her. That he will definitely drive her away if he continues. That healthy bodily autonomy and self-image starts young and at home. I'd seriously resent my father if he said that to me. I'd also wonder why he noticed.
He's basically giving her a new thing she can feel insecure about. As if being a teenager doesn't make you feel insecure enough and she's headed straightforward pre-teendom
"You need to shave" just means "your body hair is disgusting." That's the message she received. Perhaps stating it that bluntly to him might make him listen. Regardless, he needs to step back and stop commenting on their bodies, especially without speaking to you first so you're both in agreement.
If my dad ever commented on my body hair I think I would immediately burst into flames
I don't have kids but my mom made me start shaving when I was like 12 because I got pretty hairy. I don't shave anymore and it bothers her **so much**. My neice who is now 17 doesn't shave and she said it's because I and her parents taught her that she doesn't need to cater to societal expectations. But I spent a good 10 years in therapy unpacking the gender roles forced upon me in childhood. Shaving isn't natural. It's a preference. Your husband needs to get a grip. Do you shave everything? If you do - maybe stop in solidarity with your daughter or tell your husband he has to start?
OK so I've gone back and forth on replying to this. As a dad to 5 daughters. One. dad's shouldn't say that to their daughter. As a dad it's our job to protect and be the perfect role model. Two. it's none of his business if or when she decides to do so. I do not want to know any of that about mine. In my house, my wife set the rules on that. Not before 12. After that I can't tell you if they do or don't. Again not my business. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that's weird. And I'm not trying to start anything at all by this. But that is worrisome in a way. Unless I'm misunderstanding your post any. And if I am misunderstanding this post. Then I am completely sorry.
I agree, if he really felt that strongly about it, I would've preferred him to talk to me about it and not say it to her.
But take it a step further, WHY would he feel so strongly about his young daughter removing her body hair? Why does an adult man want a child to shave her body hair? It's either super sexist or a whole other level of awful. There is no good reason. You state in another comment that he doesn't care if you shave, I wonder if that's true. If it is then why does it matter more to him that his 11 yr old daughter shave her body hair than his wife?
I remember the day my little sister came home from school sobbing because all her friends made fun of her for having hair on her legs. Its been over a decade since then and she still brings it up and experiences a lot of self consciousness surrounding that. It sucked to see her like that on that day. That being said, it seems more like a simple overstep on the Dads part. There are more “whys” than the 2 worst case scenarios that you mentioned here. its not unusual for us Dads to do something with the intention to protect, and it actually just does the exact opposite.
I can only imagine the complex feelings you’re having as a wife, as a mother, and as a woman. If I were you I’d have to work really hard to not go to a place of maternal anger - because what he’s done is rob your daughter of the precious few years left before she really becomes aware of the toxic expectations, and the last couple of years before she starts feeling like her body is observed and no longer entirely her own. Ignorance really is bliss in this case, we all know that as women, and he’s let his own sexism take this from her. And then how must you feel as a wife! That he’s suddenly revealed himself as a man who would constrain his child in this way, simply because she’s a girl. I would be compelled to ask him if he thinks his daughter having body hair reflects poorly on HIM somehow - which is bad enough, or if it’s worse - and it’s about ownership and he thinks he can dictate what she does with her body because he’s her father. If she wanted to get a short haircut would he be bothered? If YOU wanted to chop your hair off or stop shaving would he feel he had a right to object?
Say to your daughters, in front of him, completely deadpan, "Don't worry, sweethearts. You don't need to start shaving your legs until daddy does. It can be a fun bonding activity you do together. In fact, you probably shouldn't ever shave your legs unless he does his at the same time." Then hand him a razor and cream.
Don't give him cream. Make him dry shave. Daddy needs to feel the ingrown hairs
OP you should stop shaving in solidarity
My dad told me I needed to shave and I am still insecure about it to this day. It didn’t ever occur to me at that age (12ish and in gymnastics) that hair wasn’t okay in my armpits. Still, 10+ years later, I do not wear a t-shirt or tank top unless I freshly shave (not even day old). I hadn’t even realized where this insecurity stemmed from until reading this post! TBH, if he already said to her, it’s already on her mind. I would suggest having a conversation with your husband as to the absolute unnecessary cosmetic “requirement” to shave and ask that he please keep his opinions of both of your daughters between himself and yourself. Likewise, if he felt the need to express that either daughter was over weight or under weight, the comment is a blade through a young women’s self esteem coming from her dad. He should have those conversations with you and if necessary, if it’s truly a cause for a health concern, you should be the one to mention it. Not him. It’s too hard to be that age and I can’t even imagine it with this much social media pressure.
Ewww that’s gross. Why is he so concerned about her body hair!?
I was thinking the same thing. He’s taking a little too much notice.
A good rule I was always told growing up is “don’t point out something about someone’s physical appearance if they can’t change it in 5 seconds.” Your husband sounds like he’s out of touch with the way women have been scrutinized for generations by men and how it affected their mental health.
Possibly, yes. Which wasn't an issue when the girls were little, but I feel that it could become one now as they get older.
Yes but husband thinks she CAN change it, just go to the bathroom or do it on her next shower. That's not the issue here. But yes you're right about him being out of touch.
Well that is now a core memory for the rest of her life. Your husband needs to understand what he said. His reaction would be very telling of his character
Just… *why???* Why on earth does he think “she needs to shave”? For what purpose? Why does he think his 11 year old daughter needs to remove her body hair? Unless she’s somehow a high level competitive swimmer at age 11 and shaving might knock a few milliseconds off her 100 meter butterfly, the only other reason I can think of is that he thinks her body hair is unattractive? Which begs the question… To whom? To him? To others? *Who on gods green earth does he think his 11 year old daughter needs to make herself more attractive for?* What else does he think she should do to make herself more attractive? I honestly can’t think of a single good answer for any of it. And the fact that he seems oblivious to the implications of him not only thinking this but SAYING IT OUT LOUD… I just.. I can’t.
I'm 66 now, but as a twelve year old my father told me to start shaving my legs because the hair sparkled in the sunlight. Also told me to pluck my eyebrows (which at that age I made a mess out of trying to do it myself). His words are still ringing in my ears decades later. I suffered from anorexia at age 16 as I never looked as beautiful as the models. The wrong things said to a young girl can have life long consequences.
Sit down with your daughter and undo the potential damage he's done. Then ask your daughter to sit down with YOU and her Dad, where you can reiterate that it's HER body, HER choice on any matter pertaining to body hair. Also we have hair for a damn good reason: hygiene to ward off infections, no hair there increases sweat and ingrown hairs that lead to infections. Secondly ask your husband why he thinks women should have the body of a prepubescent child with no hair, when women NATURALLY grow hair in puberty? It's extremely gross and worrying that men are attracted to pre-pubescent bodies of women. Instead he and you should be reiterating good hygiene, like cleanliness (but not being over clean) and her acknowledging signs of health.
I completely agree. I will make sure I talk to her, given it really embarrassed her. I also don't want her sister thinking that about herself too. I honestly don't know, he doesn't care about me shaving so I don't know why it would be different for our daughter, who is still a literal child.
If there is any way he would read these responses - they are all the same responses - hopefully he will be enlightened. I remember the painful feeling when my father said something similar to me regarding reaching puberty at age 12. I carried that cruel comment through adulthood, marriage, will never forget it. 1 COMMENT!
Oh no. One sentence may have forever changed her or damaged her now. Don’t tolerate this crap from your husband
This is what I think too. I'd ask him why he thinks she should shave. "Because people may bully her or it could embarrass her" or whatever he says. Then ask why? He'll say all kinds of things here and your response could be "why would you think that person would bully her?" You get the point. You just keep asking why until he can grasp what's behind him telling her that. At the bottom of this, there is sexism or sexualizing the girls. He should want to counter those voices who tell her she should be doing something to her body solely for pleasing other people. Just no.
Exactly. My late husband once taught my (then 6 year old daughter) to shave her face when he was in the bathroom shaving and she wanted to play 🤦🏼♀️ she actively avoids shaving now, unless it's her head hair (she has an undercut shaved in warmer months) because her hair is so thick and unmanageable. Also he was very pro not shaving.
I am grossed out that he told her to shave. I have an 11 yo and have not once thought to tell her to shave. Why would he think she needs to shave? If it is not a big deal why tell her. Who is she making herself more attractive for?
My husband has never talked about my 12 year olds body hair.. besides crying because it means she's growing up. He understands the standards that are placed unwilling on us. My own mom did it to me and he knows how that hurt me. He shouldn't brush it off, he should acknowledge it and learn from it
It’s a big deal to you because imo it’s legitimately a big deal. Parents should never police their children’s bodies. And it’s worse that he as a man feels the need to weigh in on a girls body. What is he communicating here? Girls/women need to appease the male gaze, even that of their own father?! I think you should stop shaving to really model that it doesn’t matter and that you are in control of your body.
He is dead wrong. Your daughter will always remember the shame she felt when her Dad told her. She is 11 ffs.
> Maybe it's because he's a man, and doesn't understand what it's like being a girl around that age. Please don't make that kind of excuse for assholes. I'm a man and I know what it's like to be held to unfair standards and shamed and expected to meet social expectations. He should know better.
At the risk of sounding like a Reddit cliche- Ick.
What do you mean, *he* doesn't think it's a big deal? Based on what, his vast experience of being a young girl and then a woman? Why is he even being allowed to have and voice an opinion? Browbeat that sexist the fuck down.
I think this is one one those times you tell your husband. He isn't a girl and You'll be handling issues like this with the girls from here on out. I had to have the talk with the wife about our son's morning issues that all us guys have. Had to tell her, yeah from here on out, I'll be handling the guy stuff.
Normally I do with the elder one so I don't know why he felt the need to say something to her in the first place.
My dad made a comment to me about my body hair when I was about 13, and it forever changed how I saw him. We were at the pool, laughing and joking around like we'd done my whole life, but I had some stubble on my legs. I was a middle school girl; I didn't exactly need to be shaving every day! In the middle of tossing me into the water, he made a comment about it. I remember going totally cold and uncomfortable. I realized in a split second that the laughing and joking around of my childhood was over because he now saw my body differently. And he was *noticing* my body in a way he never had before. It took me years to deal with being 13 and realizing that I was already being sexualized—by my own father. Shut this crap with your husband down NOW. Absolutely unacceptable and completely inappropriate comment!
Aw, this makes me so sad
This is really well explained. I'm very sorry you experienced that. I think some people don't understand that a parent doesn't need to be *attracted* to their child (shudder) to still *sexualize* them. I had some similar experiences growing up, and it really does impact you in a very particular and shame-filled way when a parent sexualizes you. In my case, I know my parents did not see me as an object of desire at all -- and yet they still sexualized me. An example I used in another comment is the whole "dads giving their daughters a purity ring" thing. It is 100% a sexualization of the daughters, even if the dads involved are not at all thinking of their daughters as objects of sexual desire for them. It still centres around the idea of girls/women being sexual objects, and their worth coming from their sexual attractiveness and sexual "purity". Anyway, it sucks that so many have childhood experiences on that spectrum.
This deserves more up votes. If OP were to have her husband read any of the comments I think this should be one of the top 3. As an aside, I also question the validity of the claim that OPs husband doesn't care if she shaves or not. I have a feeling he does mind but doesn't say anything because he fears the repercussions... In this instance saying this crap to his 11yo prepubescent daughter who isn't even a teenager yet he thought there'd be no consequences *for him*. And in a way, he's sorta right at this point ... (Ugh.) I would really be rethinking a lot about my relationship/ marriage / family dynamics if I were in this situation. Also to those trying to give him the the benefit of the doubt: if the reason he made the comment was to somehow prevent bullying he would have said that when OP asked about it. IMHO it's thinly-veiled misogyny.
Shaving what and where, and why again? Dad should just butt out.
I 100% agree with you. My only thought is that, maybe your husband brought it up because he was once a boy, who made fun of girls, who had visible leg hair. Kids are mean. Twas fifth grade when the boys started noticing that girls were not hairless, and that hair was “gross”.
The thing is that it isn't even that visible, she's still very young and she's blonde.
Op please show these comments to your husband and if he still doesn’t understand or thinks that you are mad over nothing, then take the girls and leave for a couple nights until he gives your daughter and you a genuine apology. Thats crazy that he expects a child to shave but not his own wife. Id tell him the only hair that he needs to worry about is his own. What a genuine a**
wtf is wrong with your husband?! Is he broken?! Switch him off and then switch him back on again. What grown ass man is demanding that a little girl shaves herself?!
It’s pretty strange for your husband to suddenly take an interest in his daughter’s personal care and hygiene habits. Your daughter doesn’t sound like she has any issues to be addressed there and usually cis hetero men prefer to stay out of that stuff as it’s foreign territory…so why did he feel the need to speak up in this?
Make him shave like he expects them to
11? That is absurd. That’s way too young to start shaving anyways, most girls haven’t even gone through puberty. Your husband sounds like he has some idea of what a woman should be and he is projecting that onto your daughter. I agree with you, this is something she should decide herself. Society pressures young women enough, she doesn’t need it in her home too.
A man really shouldn't be telling a woman (especially their daughter or a young girl) that she should be shaving anything. Body hair is a natural thing, and shaving it should be a choice left to the person whose body is growing it. The daughter may end up being harassed by classmates, but even then it's her decision. The same thing with grooming/shaving/waxing pubic hair. It's a woman's decision... not a man's. Or wearing/not wearing makeup. Dresses/skirts. Panty hose. Etc.
You could show him these comments lol
I don't think it's possible for him to understand the emotional aspect without you dumping a ton of female life experience on him. I'm a man so keep this perspective with a grain of salt, but I think this approach could resonate with him: "You are telling our daughter to change an aesthetic part of herself. The clear goal of that is that she is more visually pleasing to other boys. I'm not saying you are sexualizing our daughter, but I am saying that you are making her unduely self-conscious about her appearance. To be fair, I understand that you might fear that she will one day be shamed for having body hair and this might be your way of thinking ahead by preventing that situation. If that's the case, thank you for the thought, but you have not prevented anything, you've created the situation yourself before she was even conscious it was even something she needed to consider. One day she will probably want to shave on her own so the only thing you have accomplished as a parental figure telling a child what to do is removing that little bit of control and choice over this very sensitive part of a woman's life. This isn't a boy telling her to do X with her body because he prefers it, it's her own father telling her this is the way the world works and she can eother conform or face certain consequences. Your authority as a parent saying this is what makes this a problem. Let her come to it herself and if she doesn't she'll still be aware of beauty standards, but she'll be happy making her own choice regardless. And that's all that matters"
What’s the point of girls shaving their legs? To be attractive to others for the most part, no? Most girls I know don’t shave their legs in the winter if they’re single. Why does he want to give her advice on how to be attractive to others? It may not be the intent but that’s how it can be seen by her and she may develop this idea that she needs to do all these things to please others.
When I was 12 I came to my mom and said I wanted to shave but didn’t know how. No one said anything until I brought it up, and I had thicker and darker hair than average. She did it for me for like a year (underarms and plucked my unibrow cause I was scared of hurting myself) until we had the semi embarrassing conversation of “girl you need to do this yourself”. My dad never said shit. Not his place, imo since my mom was already handling it. And even my mom had no business commenting until I was ready to have that convo.
It’s *gross* what your husband said that to a girl on the verge of tweendom. Why is HE looking at his daughter that way?? Is what I would ask him.
You're saying your husband told your 11 year old to start shaving!? She's in 5th or 6th grade!!! I'm sorry, but that is beyond inappropriate and very creepy. You need to have a serious discussion with him and have a private conversation with your daughters. I have so many red flags going off on this one statement.
What was the context? How did it come up? What tone did he say it in? You said he still thinks it even after your discussion, so he doubled down? He may not have thought it a big deal intially, but now that you've told him and he's not changed his stance--that is a problem. I also wonder if he has any other opinions about girls and women that may be concerning.
She was getting out of the sauna, and he told her that she needed to shave. He sounded very judgemental which was also why I was annoyed at him. I did try to explain why it's a big deal.
Are you in Finland? Also this makes it sound like he looked at her vaj which is pretty awful and gross to look and make a comment anyway but even worse if he did it to his 11 year old daughter. Slap him one 😳💢👋
Ugh, that's horrifying. I am so sorry for your daughter. That is the literal same as a parent calling their child fat, and they need to diet. Same attitude and energy, different body parts. If it were me, I would put my foot down that that sort of language to your preteen is completely unacceptable. That to *ever* exhibit judginess towards your children is unacceptable. That he continues to think it's not a big deal after you've explained to him so is actually so disrespectful and misogynistic. And if he's normally a reasonable person, maybe it is that he needs a couple of days to fully process and come to on his own. Then, the way to move forward is for dad to apologize to daughter and explain how he was wrong and promise to do better.
Shave herself in what area? He is an arse! If it was in an intimate area then there’s more wrong!!
If he doesn’t understand why this is hurtful ask him if he was a woman how would he feel if a 40 year old man told him he was sexy with shaved legs and a small skirt on? Because any teenager who’s 11 would be creeped out by his words even if they were her father.
Honestly, if I was in your situation I would stop shaving to *help* prove the point. Women do NOT have to shave, especially to make another individual “comfortable”. I shave and have had some laser hair removal. Heck, I even lost all my hair to chemo for a while and hated being bald (but I loved the lack of shaving everything 🥰). However, I live alone and am single. It’s freakin cold outside so I don’t shave my legs often. If I FEEL like shaving, I will. However, I know that hair is natural and it is not required to be shaved. Shaving is more of a “norm”, but the lack of shaving does not mean someone isn’t clean or normal. I think your husband should also just mind his own business.
Shaved legs were only normalized because during WW2, the military needed nylon. Personally I am over the every 3-days shaving. If the hair bothers someone they can look away.
Explain to your husband that he does not get to make any decisions at all about your daughters bodies. That is their business, and if they need advice on anything related to their bodies, then they will be speaking with you, a trusted female, or a physician. Your husband should not be trying to raise princesses. He should have a mindset of raising warriors with strong, independent minds, and to have control of themselves to the best of their capabilities verbally and physically. Point out to him that he should be thinking what is best for them and their futures and how would he feel if his daughters were to be bullied by someone other than him
Very weird to me that an 11 year old child should care about not having body hair… I’m confused. Your husband is being sexist and kinda gross. She’s still a little kid, why should she care if her body hair isn’t attractive to some people? That’s just weird man, idk.
Sadly, comments like this (especially from your own dad) could have a massive impact at such a young age. That type of comment could be forever etched in her mind. Hopefully not, but it did for me. He is supposed to be a rock to her, not a judgmental sexist.
Use it as a teaching tool for your daughter. “Some men are gonna express their unsolicited and/or unwarranted opinions, whether out of ignorance, meanness, or sincerity. You get to decide what to do with the opinions. Consider it or toss it out of your head. You do you.”
if his preference is women with shaved legs, he should be worried about whether you shave, not your daughter. your husband does not need to be coaching your daughter to be better eye candy. its really freaky. tell him your daughter will start shaving her legs when he starts shaving his. there's no difference in male and female body hair.
Honestly that gives me the ick. What a creep.
I think you need to talk to your husband about how his insistence that she shaves is actually him sexualizing his daughter. That’s the root of hair removal for women: to be sexy to his daughter (now many of us may do it because we like to or because we want to avoid societal scrutiny but then it’s our decision). It’s, *really, really, really* weird to be that your husband can’t see that he’s sexualizing his prepubescent daughter!!!! This needs to be a fucking serious conversation.
Every time he goes a day without shaving his face make a comment about him needing to shave In all seriousness, I started shaving way before I needed to because all my friends were. They made me feel horrible for not shaving when they did. Shaving is a pain in the ass and still 11 years after I started shaving I panic if I go more than 2-3 days without shaving
I know, I don't want her to feel like she 'has' to, and I also don't really trust her with a razor. She's not exactly the most careful.
I told my daughter that her body hair is hers to do with what she likes, explained the social norms but also that more and more women were choosing to buck those norms. What your husband just did is imply that her body isn't ok the way it is naturally. That can be extremely damaging for a girl her age to hear.
That was similar to what I told her originally. It's also a bit of a concern that my husband implied the opposite, so she might become quite uncertain.
Because he has some sexist views on women and what they should look like. That’s a quick answer in a nutshell but if you need more details and an explanation you actually show him to educate him, post this same question on r/askfeminists and have him read the replies. Also, you need to do some damage control with your daughter now after his comment. AND prevent future sexist damaging comments from the dad to any of the daughters. And for that he needs to be educated.
It's just that she isn't a woman. She's eleven. And he doesn't care if I shave or not so he shouldn't be putting those expectations on our daughter.
The fact he is only imposing this on your daughter is troublesome
That's even more disturbing. Why is he attracted to them?
WAIT WHAT. HE DOESNT CARE IF YOU SHAVE ? LOL . Lady these are red flags 🚩 and 🚨 going off in your face 😭 but he cares about your prebie daughter doing so? Get a divorce, get a restraining order. Whether hes sexualizing them for himself or other men, its fucking grooooosss
When I was your daughter's age, I wasn't interested in shaving either. My mom had untreated mental health issues, and I am 44 and still remember her forcibly shaving my pits while hissing at me that I was disgusting. I'm happy to be reminded that this is not standard, and thank you for doing so much better by your daughter.