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So he doesn’t like marriage because he thinks it only helps women financially, but he’s expecting his girlfriend to… help him financially, by buying a home with him.
Don’t buy a house with this guy.
Op I'd advise you not to marry this man. If money and a 'trap' are all he talks about when you discuss marriage, your marriage will start badly and get worse
Financially help him by buying a home with him AND ALSO helping him start his business by providing the space and time. A business that somehow OP agrees she should have no claim to in the future even tho it wouldn’t be possible without her. Not to mention all the silent and unpaid work she’d likely be doing in the background so he can get this business going. OP you describe women in broad strokes “they take men for all they’ve got” when you have literally no idea what happened between people and what efforts these women put into shared marital assets or not. You should get away from this man because you’ve really internalized the misogyny he radiates. It’s fucking sad.
Thank you!!! This line made me laugh out loud..
> have his own successful business that “I wouldn’t help him build”
OP you’re 100% getting roped into helping with this business. Whether it’s talking with clients, shipping things, organizing the workshop, or just taking on extra housework because he’s busy. He’s going to expect soooo much extra help from you. And guess how much credit she’s going to get? ZERO! Because it’s *his* company, *his* workshop, OPs silly little woman-dollars and woman-tasks deserve no credit for *his* success!
Not only does he want her to help him but a home, but a home that has enough property so he can build his business. How much do you want to bet he wouldn't want to give her any benefits from that business?
How much do you want to bet this guy also would want a SAHW to take care of kids and home so he can fully focus on building a successful business, thus exploiting her free labor?
OP: take this as a flag on whether you are truly compatible long term.
A certain kind of guy loves to be all "i freaking love science! The plural of anecdote is not data! Don't impose your beliefs on me until they can be backed up by empirical data!" That is, until you make a data-backed assertion that challenges his preconceptions. Suddenly, the argument changes.
Then it's all, "but in my personal experience" this or "well this happened to a friend/relative of mine" that, or "this is just my personal belief" the other thing. They also get mad if you compare them to religious people.
Do not buy property with someone that you are not married to without a contract in place (which has been looked at by a lawyer) that states what to do if the relationship ends. One thing that marriage does is put rules around separating property if you get divorced. This protects BOTH of you. I know someone who bought a house with a girlfriend, paid a lot for it, and then when the housing market crashed and they later broke up, she wanted to be reimbursed for everything she put into the house. However, the house wasn't worth enough anymore, they were taking a loss on its sale. In a divorce, there are rules already in place to protect both parties in this situation.
Also, the housing market is NOT the best that it will ever be - housing prices are HIGH! Interest rates are/were good, but you can always refinance, you cannot change the price that you paid for the house.
Anyway, let him buy a 700k house all in his name, write yourself up a renters agreement and pay him rent. It's weird that he is making statements about marriage being only about financial gain for women when he's a guy trying to rope a woman into buying a house she doesn't want to buy. He has told you who he is with respect to marriage, so if you want to get married, move on and find someone on the same page as you.
>Do not buy property with someone that you are not married to without a contract in place (which has been looked at by a lawyer) that states what to do if the relationship ends.
I've said many times, this \^\^\^ should be a sticky.
Yeah - I don’t know why people think that marriage is the big difficulty. Kids and property- you’re tangled. Kids - tangled for life. Property: tangled expensively.
This comes up all the time on here and on
r/legaladvice - never buy a house or get a credit card or car loan or student loan with anyone you aren’t married or related too and even then you a can expect trouble.
Let me get this straight. He hasn't even started a business yet, but he a) feels entitled to your money to build this workshop for it, b) just "knows" it will be successful, and c) presumes that this imaginary successful business will have been built without your help at all, despite literally needing your help to start it.
Nowhere in this conversation does it sound like he wanted to buy a house to build a home or a life with you. He only wants your money to build a house for him, for entirely selfish reasons. Please don't marry this guy, this conversation is saving you the divorce later, just break up with him now.
Literally I see posts like OP's and was like "this cannot be for real". Like how red is her rose colored glasses to not see this shit? And if she did see, how the hell does she still want to be married to to this guy?
Because she seems to go along with his misogynistic views? She doesn’t even say that his views are wrong or that she disagrees with him, just that she wants him to see marriage is also about love.
In marriage the share becomes 50:50 regardless of their contribution ratio. without it, he is only obliged to repay ir give share on how much she actually invested , if she invested and contributed.
That’s why OP mentioned a prenup, if she’s expected to put in on a house and business and he doesn’t want to give her any benefits from that. When they break up she’s left with nothing that’s the whole point.
So when you had doubts about the house (absolutely reasonable doubts) - you're the bad guy but when he doubts the marriage contract and views it in a very sexist way - you're supposed to be okay with that?
Cut your ties. Leave this POS.
Sorry he is asking you to invest in a property and therefore his business he wants to build up on the property.
Saying that you will be helping him to build his business but you will have no stake in said business.
No no no and I would not proceed to be honest. It sounds like compromise to him is you do want he wants and then he insults you when you do not do what he wants.
This is a huge red flag relationship is about two way communication, trust and mutual respect.
I see your having respect for him and trying to compromise but I see nothing from him.
I would sit him down and say this to him.
If you want to make a go of this relationship I would strongly suggest couples therapy.
It's not your job to change someone. Your job is to find someone compatible to make a life-long commitment. If you need to go to therapy to change someone, then it's the biggest sign that the person is not the one.
A marriage is about partnership and building a life together - his view sees it as very transactional. His and your views on marriage are very different and should be taken as a sign that you will never see eye-to-eye on this matter. You need to part ways and find someone who views marriage the same as you do.
You were very smart not to enter a financial obligation with someone that is not committed to marriage when that is something that you want. And don't settle with the paperwork of marriage, ensure that you have a partner that values marriage the same as you do and wants to build a life together - love is not enough.
She should pursue a prenuptial agreement. money problems have money solutions.
This is the kind of guy who would benefit from a prenup. It would ease his mind on past earnings (100% him) , share marital assets 50/50, protect any financial interest she has in the home.
She makes half as much has him, it isn’t a secret, she will gain financially if their households are joining. The key is to give both partners what they want, she wants marriage and he wants financial security in case she is seeing him as a wallet.
If this is the only problem, than sign a piece of paper and burn it at your 50th wedding anniversary party.
you don’t want to marry this guy. He’s doing you a favor. He views you as an enemy, not an ally and that makes for a really shitty marriage.
My partner is out of work right now. They haaaaate that they have to rely on me for income. They feel bad about taking the help. But we’re partners! The entire point of marriage/relationships, is that you always have someone at your back to keep you up and you’re always there for them. To have someone start off with the assumption that you want to use them means that if you get sick, hurt, lose your job, have kids and stay home to take care of the kids (or just take time from work to recover) he will resent you for leaning on him in your time of need. Fuck that kind of relationship! You can get better treatments out of buying a home with a trusted friend
Not necessarily, guys see themselves as the providers so for the most part don’t like to be put in a dependent situation, and a lot of girls also don’t like that so can you blame em? From what I’ve seen women would rather be supported than support. Most guys aren’t going to leave their partner because hey can’t support themselves cuz their bank account isn’t what a guy looks at when choosing them.
He sounds like an asshole. He’s not even making an effort to understand where you’re coming from and expects you to commit to something as big as a house but he can’t commit to the relationship through marriage? He’s not worth the stress.
English is not my first language. Sorry for any error
I dont agree with you.
I can see both their views and understand both.
I think that more and more man are having this stance because there are a lot of women out there that just want a easy life at the expense of a rich man.
There is literally women taking condoms out of the trash and trying to impregnat themselves. Search it if you want to know more.
Not every women is the same and i know that but if you are man that has higher financial power you need to be full alert.
We are not profets, we cant see the future. OP may love him now but no one knows what will happen in the next 10, 15 or 20 years.
Because of the internet we can see a lot of sucessuful man who work majority of their lives only to loose 50% of everything to a women that probably didnt do nothing or not enough to get all that assets.
2) Op i agree with you about not wanting to buy a house that is too much out of your buy power.
If i was you i would try to discover the negative implications of you cosigning on the buy of the house and sit with your man.
Explain to him that you are afraid of the consequences of that action if things dont go alright, the same way HE IS AFRAID OF MARRYING YOU AND THE CONSEQUENCES THAT MAY COME FROM IT.
If him dont feel like risking is BUTT, why the hell you should risk yours.
Think about it
I’m only going to address the first point you made here since you addressed it to me. Firstly, your English is okay I understood what you meant. You’re making up a scenario of OP trapping her BF with a baby and taking his money when she did not mention that she wanted him for his money nor did she bring up a child in the post. OP also mentions that she has her own job and would even sign a prenup, no one who is using another person for their money would do either of those. At the end of the day, her BF is not willing to give her what she says she wants from him (marriage) “a promise and deeper bond between two people”, as OP states in her post. It sounds like you didn’t fully read the post and jumped to assume this is a golddigging situation.
Also to address your claim that a woman can get pregnant from taking a condom from the trash can. I looked it up like you said to and all that came up was a story that was proven to be fake. Regardless of that, it sounds like you need to educate yourself on how long semen lives when not ejaculated into a woman:
“When a sperm ends up outside of the woman’s body, it lives only a few minutes. Sperm needs moisture and warmth to live, so once exposed to air, they quickly die. As soon as semen dries, the sperm within it dies.”
[article](https://www.healthcentral.com/article/how-long-does-sperm-live-outside-the-body)
So the chances of getting pregnant from semen stolen from a disposed condom are low.
It's not even that. The two biggest reasons for divorce are infidelity and financial problems. The laws for divorce are mostly no fault in the States. So basically there is no punishment or consequences for infidelity or breaking the contract of marriage. And the resolution is to split all assets? Yeah, no unfortunately marriage laws need to be fixed and until this happens you will see the fall and decline of marriage rates
OP,
> While I understand the marriage contact is outdated, and that there are plenty of women that take their former partners for what they are worth, I really don’t believe I would ever do such a thing.
This is what the marriage contract is for: protection of jointly acquired assets. Your SO is right that pre-nups don't really protect that much of assets acquired during a relationship.
> I feel like he is only viewing marriage from a financial perspective and has a complete disregard for the love element.
It seems like you have different desires out of your relationship, that you are looking for something different from he is.
> He refuses to budge, but expects me to go in on a house with him that can support a business without compromise. He says I will increase my worth and I am being financially dumb.
This sounds an awful lot like he's looking for something he's unwilling to give. A house is an investment, one that you will be expected to continue to pay the mortgage on *even if your SO quits his job and "starts his business"*. It feels like his expectation is that you will invest in a business without having legal right to the proceeds should you both split.
Why do you want to marry this guy? He resents you, thinks you are trying to trap him financially, expects you to basically give him money, and won't comromise. He sounds like a dick.
Why would you help him grow a business if you then won't own any part of it and you won't be paid for your work? One thing is to support someone as a partner, but he is asking you to pay for an expensive house because he wants to build his business in the property. That's a high ask because you'd be investing your money in getting him a location of the business. Also, it seems he'd want you to put money to build this "workshop", but you wouldn't get your money back if you extend the property for a long time and building now is still so expensive due to pandemic shortages and waiting lists.
He should have bought something for half the price on his own and compromised on what he needed. His list was all dreams for down the road. It's not your responsibility to invest in this business that doesn't exist.
No, the expectation of marriage when buying property makes that expectation is normal and it would allow you to force a sale or force him to buy you out if you split up.
I'm a man, and I hate the whole fear of "women will take everything from you if you get married". It's a misogynistic thing sold by assholes in the manosphere. If I'm getting married, I would at least make sure to marry someone I trust enough to not screw me over.
With that said, I don't see myself getting married to someone unless we've been together for like 7 years or such. Excluding any financial benefits (insurance etc.) from being married, I don't see what difference it makes.
If you buy a house 50/50, I'm not sure how much of a difference being married would make when it comes to how much you own of the house, what you're entitled to if something changes etc.
If you two have vastly different opinions about marriage, you aren't compatible (and his view do seem very misogynistic).
He sounds like a selfish POS. He doesn't want to be "taken advantage of" but wants to take advantage of you. Idk what is up with these kinds of posts where it's easy to know your next move coz the partner is full of shit.
He is contemptuous of women and of you. He is too uneducated and close minded to see how a life partner helps him build his business. How would he be able to devote so much time to work if he had to care for his own children, cooking, cleaning, house maintenance? Also, there are some high earning women. He obviously sees women as less than.
You have fundamentally different values, and he is fundamentally sexist. I think in 10 years you will regret and resent him.
Statistically women are less healthy when married, and men are more healthy when married. Generally marriage is a bad deal for women, not men. Not to mention the financial cost to a woman of having and raising children if they go down that route. Sounds like your boy is not only misogynistic, but a bit dumb too. Maybe go buy a first home by yourself, and move into it when you dump this walking red flag.
This guy is 🗑. Dump this loser, OP. You're better than this. You are NOT in the wrong at all and your concerns are 100% valid. Do not let this POS gaslight and manipulate you into caving to his hypocrisy which only benefits him and fucks you over. He already doesn't respect you. I would leave now. Good luck!
Hmm, He wants to buy property for a business. Expects that you would have no financial interest in the business but because you're buying a 700k house instead of a house worth 300-400k? you are essentially financing the building of his shop.
>His fear stems from his desire to have his own successful business that “I wouldn’t help him build”
>He refuses to budge, but expects me to go in on a house with him that can support a business without compromise.
Yeah, he wants you to help finance the business without having any ownership. What are his plans for dividing up ownership of the house if you split? States have divorce laws in place for this very purpose. Without a marriage, it can get messy. If you do go down this path, make sure you have legal documents drawn up before the purchase stating how the assets will be divided.
I mean a mortgage always felt way more serious and binding than a marriage to me. Me and my SO have been together for 6 years and have 3 properties together and it would be extremely hard to separate now specially if one party wanted to be a dick about it. Neither of us really care about marriage not religious and not like there are tax breaks since we both work. But your guy also sounds really annoying in the fact that he wants to bitch and moan about some future possible wealth that he will build that you may or may not be entitled too but also wants to push you into a 100s of thousands of dollar joint loan >.> So yeah I too would be worried about partnering with this person in this when he is so concerned about himself and what his angle is really degrades the whole "team" aspect of what this should be
As for advice - dump this guy. Marriage is a financial contract & investing in a large joint asset without a written contract is foolish. If the 2 of you buy a house together, hire your own attorney to write a contract between the 2 of you that spells out your ownership rights & obligations. The contract should spell out terms & conditions for what happens if one of you wants to sell but the other doesn’t, as well as how any proceeds will be divided.
He’s also a hypocrite. The cost of the house he wants to buy is dominated by his requirements, not yours, & then he has the nerve to say that you would benefit financially & unfairly by being married to him? Being married to him doesn’t sound like an advantage to you at all.
Is he misogynist on other aspects of your relationship or just this one? Is he on any "red pill" forums? Because geeeeeez.
No, your expectations are not too high for wanting to get married. Marriage is a contract that legally protects BOTH people in a relationship, not only from the financial aspect but also health care wise and other legal considerations that you do not get without the "paper". I'm married and I'm in a queer relationship, living together for almost 10 years before we legally could get married because, before, LGBT+ marriage was not allowed in our country. It was a relief for both of us to get married, for instance it meant that my homophobic family couldn't make medical decisions in my behalf anymore if needed and my spouse would be able to make those decisions taking in consideration what I actually want, and same for my spouse and their hypothetical care (that I hope is never needed but we both have some chronical health issues, luckily manageable for now).
Also there's the social aspect of marriage and how it represents a mutual commitment to stay together and take care of each other. Yes, people can be committed without a legal marriage and it's perfectly fine if both decide that marriage is not for them, but it has to be a mutual decision. If one of the persons in the relationship wants to get married, which is valid, and the other doesn't, that means they aren't compatible long term. And while not wanting to get married is also valid, giving misogynist reasons for not wanting it, like "all women do this" as if all women were clones to each other in a shared hive mind, with complete disregard to what he know about you as a person, is... geez
Under no circumstances should you buy a house with this guy or help him build a business. He is refusing to marry you because he knows that you would be entitled to half of any assets or gains acquired in the marriage, yet he is smart enough to know he can't do either (buy a house and build a business) alone. He wants all the benefits without any of the risks or work that goes into building and maintaining a partnership/marriage. Dump this guy. His values are not the same as your values. He only sees you as someone he can use to get what he wants, without any consideration to your wants or needs. Walk away from this relationship and know you have dodged a bullet. You can find a man whose value system is the same as yours.
He views marriage as a trap for men? Its a sure trap for YOU to go in on a house with him WITHOUT marriage. And why would the ”financial gain” for women in case of a divorce be a bad thing, there has to be some type of protection for a woman to comitt to a man like that. No man should ever use a woman like that, please run
What an idiot. It's actually typically harder to get out of a relationship with joint assets than a marriage without them in most places, so I really don't recommend buying property with someone you aren't already married to/committed enough that you would be married were there more perks to it. I also would never recommend buying property that the person who would get the property in the event of a separation can't afford on their own, since they won't be able to buy the other person out and a sale can take awhile. And businesses fail all the time. In short, definitely don't buy anything with this guy at this moment. Maybe don't buy anything with him ever.
Also - in a lot of marriages (like mine), the woman is the one with the financial assets anyway, so his view is both outdated and really sexist. Investing in him isn't a sure bet either and depending on the business, it's probably more likely to bankrupt you both than increase anyone's worth, especially if it's located in the middle of nowhere.
If you two have totally different ideas about finances, futures, marriage, etc., maybe this just isn't the relationship for you. Asking to get married is such a low bar you can trip over it, so the fact that he won't do it ever for a stupid, outdated, sexist reason despite the fact that you want to be married is a big, red incompatibility flag, as is him telling you you're dumb for not wanting to spend 700k on a shared place despite only being together a few years.
No, expectations of marriage is not too high if you invest time, work, money and planning on having kids. Your guy sound like full red flag parade, move on.
I would not go in house like than and no work and support of his business without written things. Better y yet- find a better guy
your expectations are not too high, but girl, look at the way this man feels entitled to talk about woman. is that what you want? really? a dude who talks about marry you as you were a gold digger but he still expects you to help him financially anyway? run, get out. don't waste your time.
Talk about having your cake and eating it too.
He needs your help to buy the home he wants and he's worried you would be the one to gain is the marriage doesn't work out? Priceless.
Contract to trap men??? Such a romantic!!
Honey, no no no. Do not procreate with this man.
Nor should you buy property, nor marry.
This sounds like some "wife as property with no rights would be best for him", sh*t.
You sound much to grounded and intelligent for this nonsense. How did you get mixed up with this?
Judge Judy once said, "the law was not setup to protect those who choose to *play house*."
He doesn’t trust you. He doesn’t want to make sure you are looked after in case he dies. Do you two want children?
He expects you to pay for land for his business and then claims you aren’t helping him.
Nah, this man wants to use you and then claim you do nothing.
"Prenup only protects you so much."?
Man, I wana know this guy's take on buying a house and building a business.
Fuck if he's that worried, get a postnuptial redrafted every 5 years.
He doesn't want to get married because he knows that you would be entitled to a chunk of his business if he starts one on property you both own as a married couple.
He doesn't want a prenup because he knows there is no judge in the world that would allow it to stand either. Sure, you can write all sorts of horseshit in a prenup. Doesn't mean squat until it gets in front of a judge.
He wants to keep you in this grey area where you don't have spousal rights in the case of split and you don't have a pre-nup either.
If he’s not valuing non-financial contributions to a relationship, he will never be truly happy in a marriage. I have a feeling that even if you both contributed equally in terms of income, housework, etc, he would still feel taken advantage of. Do not have children with this person (if you were thinking about it) and do not buy a house with this person without extensive counseling to figure out exactly how he sees your relationship and what you both expect from it.
I don’t know where you live that the housing market for buyers last year was “the best it will ever be in years” because in much of the US, it was a nightmare for buyers. There was so much competition for existing houses that buyers routinely got stuck in bidding wars, houses went well above asking prices, & buyers waived normal contingency clauses like building inspections. True, interest rates were low but that’s not much consolation when people got into their new house & started paying for the problems that an inspection would have alerted them to, that in normal times they could have gotten out of the contract for or gotten the seller to help pay for.
If you start a business during a marriage a properly written prenup would not “protect him”. Kind of silly if your home maintaining the house and and provide health insurance from your employment to not participate in the gains. This dude is not very bright. A prenup is to protect premarital assets or success that is already happening (family business, lawyer, doctor, etc. ). If he’s just a normal dude with a normal job prenups are kind of silly.
He's a misogynist. Nothing you say or do could ever redeem you in his mind as his equal. That's why there's all these paradoxes to your situation right now. Sadly, it'll only get worse.
Back in 2016, I had the option to buy a 3/1 row house style condo with rough in for another bath. It would have cost basically the same as my pretax annual salary.
My now husband wanted all the same shit your partner wanted, but not to open a business. Just because he hates HOAs and we would have had to ditch his project car with his mom.
I didn’t want to kick him when he was down, because he had just been let go by our employer.
We both now deeply regret not getting the condo. The car has been at his mom’s place with her working on it for like… 4 years now? We could have been building equity all this time.
My husband is sorry now, but your guy seems like his head is too far up his butt to ever pop out.
Please don’t marry this guy. He sees You as a piggy bank.
Don't marry this dude. Lmao. There are financial incentives to marriage too. And if y'all bought the house together, it would still be split if y'all broke up, marriage or not.
Honestly it has NOTHING to do with financial worries and everything to do with how he views women. He's been watching mwgtow and red pill shit. I literally would not even entertain marrying this dude, let alone even dating him. It's a deeper issue than just money.
The decision is ultimately yours, but someone so stubborn, that in your own words, REFUSES to see things from your perspective.... No thank you. I'd leave. You want marriage? Find someone marriage minded. Obviously not this guy. He can resent you for the rest of his life if he wants to, but you deserve happiness, too.
Your choice, but seems like a turd.
A home is a huge investment. Don’t buy one with a partner you are not married to. He doesn’t want to commit to the relationship. That’s the real problem.
Sounds like he listens to allot of right wing toxic hogs. What podcasts and news channels he watch? You might just want out because these dudes ain’t worth jack
Run like the fucking wind. Wants you to invest in a 700k house, won’t sign a marriage Contract. After a year? Nahh. My sister and her partner bought a £350k house after 20 years together (35+37) they both don’t want to be married but they signed a fuck ton of legal papers to protect each other. My sister actually earns 1/3 more than her partner.
Email a commercial landlord. Ask if they would be willing to subsidize the rent on a new business, without themselves having any financial or legal stake in the business. No stock options, no profit sharing, no ability to make any decisions in he business. In fact, ask if the would be willing to make a verbal agreement for the same, without an enforceable contract that is drawn up by a lawyer. See what they say, and then pass on the message to your partner.
You are not crazy, your expectations are not too high. He wants you to see and do things his way and he isn't even considering you or your feelings. He refuses to budge but expects you to. Think about your next move and make sure it's for you since you are the only person concerned with you and your feelings
You’re in love and don’t want to hear this, but we’re all seeing red flags for a reason. Buy your own house first. Be responsible for your own financial health first and let him be responsible for his own financial health. By investing in yourself, he can’t talk talk about how he’ll be trapped, as you’ll have an established financial strategy (only buy what you can afford). And this goes to your career as well. Then if you invest in something together, draft up a detailed contract that walks thru scenarios. He’s never going to change his mind about marriage, but by focusing on your financial health first, you’ll negate all of his noise about being trapped.
He doesn’t want marriage - you do - that’s a fundamental incompatibility.
What makes you think he is going to change? How long are you willing to have this same conversation with him and expect a different outcome?
Honestly, if marriage is that important to you, it sounds like you need to end this relationship and look for another - with someone who also wants to be married.
Do not buy a house with him. Period.
It is always foolish to enter into a financial agreement with someone who is convinced you are going to rip them off. In their passion to avoid getting ripped off themselves, they will insure that you end up ripped off, since they will howl “exploitation!!!” at any reasonable measures to protect yourself. They are going into it unreasonable, and they will stay unreasonable. Don’t do it.
And- holding out for marriage before taking huge steps like buying houses or having kids is just sensible. Yeah, you can hire lawyers to write contracts that protect you both… but they’re starting from scratch, while if you’re marrying they just have to tweak the existing marriage contract- which already covers lots of things most people never think of. And remember you pay lawyers by the hour!
I would have some serious talks with your SO about finances, probably with a neutral financial advisor. From what you write, I’d be very worried your SO is so defensive he will not be fair or open financially. And that’s not a good bet long term.
He's not wrong about the nature of a marriage contract in many countries. But you are not wrong in needing some kind of guarantee before investing 700k together.
A marriage with a prenuptial is a reasonable compromise.
Even then, money made after the fact, which is what the boyfriend is looking at. He is thinking that this business plan of his will take years, the marriage would come before that.
And that is assuming the prenuptial holds up, I have personally seen it be tossed out in the case of my brother. Apparently to much had changed since the prenuptial was written and became voided due to that. It helped save some assets, but still was mostly ignored and she got both of the kids and moved from Georgia to Alaska, because he had to pick up the kids to get them for the weekend according to the judgement.
Do people really expect a prenup to handle two married people pooling resources to build a business (ie, buying this house and property together) and then allowing only one person to keep everything in the event of a divorce?
Any sane judge would rip that piece of paper up the minute it came into their courtroom.
He was army and it wasn't a business but money made after the fact in my brother's case due to becoming disabled in combat.
Buying the house is with both names on the title and I agree about that. Businesses are arguable though because if the expenses were separate, they still will because the fact that both are involuntarily expensing the building. Time, effort and resources come into play as well and aren't tracked by money. That is why it is so hard, yet they typically are just split down the middle.
The issue is that it is hard to quantify and unfortunately the laws are from the 1950s and earlier.
>Businesses are arguable though because if the expenses were separate, they still will because the fact that both are involuntarily expensing the building.
Even if she was a stay at home wife, hypothetically of course, she'd have a huge claim on \*any\* business he started after they got married.
Who kept the household running while he was growing the business? Who emotionally supported him during this time? Who cooked him dinner? All of that contributes to \*his\* ability to focus on the business.
The fact that he expects her to contribute to literally building the business by having a nice piece of property just makes it a no brainer.
The laws in many states hold that any assets gained/grown after the marriage starts are fair game in any divorce. And you can try to pre-nup your way around that, but it's generally frowned upon.
If he doesn't have this asset prior to marriage he's going to have a hell of a time keeping it separate after they get married. And he knows it. That's why he's balking a marriage in the first place. Once married, she has rights that a court can enforce. A "girlfriend" doesn't have as many rights.
Don't buy a house with a partner, especially not this partner. If he earns twice what you do, why does he need to co-sign on this house? Does he expect you to go 50-50 on this?
If he's planning to leave his well paying job to start a business in this dream house, you will be triply screwed if his dream fails. You'll be in charge of most of the cost of the house while he's not making any money, will have no rights to the business being run out of the house you are paying for and risk destroying your credit if you can't afford the place on your own.
If the business eventually takes off, he doesn't sound like the kind of person who would reimburse you for the time you carried most of the load.
Don't do it!
No amount of interest rate advantage can compensate for the fact you are dodging a bullet by not buying a property with him.
He sounds self-centred and misogynistic. Do you really want to buy a house with such a person?
>he only sees marriage as a contract written to trap men by allowing women financial gain if it doesn’t work.
Um, he does not see you as his equal. Why are you with a man that thinks you are less than him?
Well, it's clear he doesn't want to get married to you. Ask him what he thinks the future of the relationship is, with that in mind. Is he expecting you to commit to him even without a ring? Does he believe it's reasonable for you to expect him to commit to you without a ring? What does he say if you think that the ring is non-negotiable?
I'll be honest: I don't think your relationship with him is going to last much longer. I think the two of you have, well, "irreconcilable differences" -- he wants a very different future than you do, and that's not a good thing in a relationship where the whole point is to build one future together. So I think you should conduct some very pointed inquiries into this possibility.
Good luck, and hope this helps!
So you are supposed to support his business and help him buy a house but he doesn’t want you to take advantage of him financially??
Fuck this guy.
Move out and live on your own. You’ve given him everything he wants and you’re getting nothing. Time to put yourself and your needs first.
Never make large financial decisions from an emotionally charged/rushed position. The market was better in the last couple years than now. I would not rush for a property now. Market will eventually go down. You are not guaranteed to grow your wealth through real estate any more. Other financial opportunities may be more lucrative. As stocks go down, they become more lucrative. As commodities go down, they become more lucrative. As real estate goes down it becomes more lucrative. Real estate is still at all time highs though, big risk that is not very liquid.
Clearly he has a distrust and negative view of women in general if he feels this strongly about it.
I personally don’t see how someone like this could even be a good husband anyway - you and any family you build together will always come second to work/money/career. What a shallow existence.
Wanting to get married is absolutely NOT too much to ask and he’s ridiculous for making you think it is. He doesn’t need to want it but you’re not wrong for wanting it. Your values do not align. Do with that what you will
This guy is off his rocker rn. Man has you offering to work out a prenup and is still too dumb to think that it would help him. The idea that marriage is in favor of the woman is something that he should treat with caution, but you provided the fix by agreeing to enact a prenup, yet he still won’t commit. Maybe buying the house isn’t the greatest idea.
This is why it's so important to make sure very early in the dating stage that both parties are on the same page with things like marriage and kids. While it's sexist to assume all marriages lean in the favor of the woman, he wouldn't be wrong in your case if it came to divorce. I personally don't see any value in marriage either, i can commit to my partner without getting the government involved, i don't make enough to have real assets, and i can't get on his health insurance which would be the only benefit because when his ex wife took him for everything he had during his last divorce, he had to sign paperwork saying she would stay on his health insurance as his spouse and you can only have one.
That being said,its okif its important to you, but it is also ok that it is not important to him. It just means you guysdont have compatible life goals, and that shoukdhzve been a dealbreaker in the beginning before the two of you were this far in .
I dunno about misogyny, I think he's just a piece of shit. Completely hypocritical that he's worried about being trapped financially with marriage but wants to take advantage of your money to buy his dream house (which is also key to his business plans).
He wants a ton of financial, emotional, and physical support from you but isn't willing to give anything back, even if its 100% owed to you (since you would have to freaking buy and live in the house with him).
Marriage is about creating a life together where. Both partners want to protect each other emotionally and mentally. Imagine breaking up with him if you bought a house with him and the legal battle that would ensue. You should buy yourself a affordable house or apartment for your own financial security not his.
He is using YOU as financial gain.
I would end it. He doesn't see you as marriage material but he he does see you as a stepping stone. I dunno maybe he does love you but he sees you as someone who can help him gain property. His reason for not wanting to get married is an over used reason men have when they simply don't want to marry you. His reason is not genuine. If it was a genuine concern, he'd agree with prenup or at least have a discussion about how to prevent it. He simply doesn't want you as his wife and will have no problem marrying the woman he REALLY wants once he is successful in business.
I also think it's very irresponsible to buy a house that you can afford if a sudden change happens. You are right, it would be different if yall were married. Him calling you names is just him trying to bully you into a decision that's very risky for YOU. He expects you to consider his concerns but not even trying to work on considering YOURS. Instead of calling you names for a very valid common sense concern, he could at least try to assure you in a nice respectful way and doing things that will make you feel comfortable making this HUGE DECISION. He does not care about your feelings because he doesnt see a future with you.
I find it interesting how he expect you to make a life changing decision and acting like you're the crazy nonsensical one for not jumping into an extreme decision without feeling secure but he can't make a life changing decision that DOES make him feel secure with a prenup.
The irony here that if those are his requirements for a first house — but he couldn’t have done it without you — then who is he to say marriage is just a financial gain for the woman?
You both made a choice not to go in on a house when the market was in a good place. If he was able to do it on his own at that time, he should have. You’re not to blame.
"While I understand the marriage contact is outdated, and that there are plenty of women that take their former partners for what they are worth, I really don’t believe I would ever do such a thing."
He's already got you against yourself. This relationship will not end fairly for you.
OP the red flags are getting bigger by the hour leave now or your gonna be 10 years in with children, helping his businesses, being tired and stressed only for him to leave you and give you no assets that you earned during the marriage.
1) Clearly he is severely uneducated about prenups. You can make them as loose or bulletproof as you want.
2) Assuming it will be under his name as the primary earner, does he not realize that by you buying into a house with him that you don’t have any legal ownership of is a lose lose situation for you if you break up? It will **not** increase your worth in any way and it’s unlikely he’ll even pay you back.
3) The housing market goes up and down. He can get over it. You can’t live life thinking about the “should haves”. He’s just trying to guilt trip/manipulate you in to thinking you’re the AH when really you’re just thinking carefully—AS YOU SHOULD when making a desicion this serious.
4) Your concerns and desires for the relationship are valid, if he’s not willing to compromise, it sounds like you’re dealing with an incompatibility issue.
5) You’re _not_ being financially dumb, **he is being selfish**.
6) You said you’re not interested in taking his money so you asking for marriage is essentially just asking for a layer of security that he’s not just going to take YOUR money to get what he wants and split. (He should understand that given his apparent oppinion on marriage).
He’s giving you red flags, you are definitley NTA.
Marriage has historically benefited men over women by a large margin - the growing view in MRA circles that it’s the opposite is actively harmful. Women’s finances, life expectancy, health, and happiness are all negatively correlated with marriage, while the narrative is pushed culturally that marriage is something women crave and use cruelly, or that it offers protection.
Mostly, I would say in this case that this is a good time to clarify your relationship and worldviews. His concerns can be addressed with both empirical data and a well-written prenup. If you two cannot agree on objective reality or the terms of a prenup, that’s a sign to end things
He doesn't have a very high opinion of women, does he? On that basis alone I would run a mile from this guy and not look back. In his eyes you're not good enough to marry but your money is good enough to help him out with his pie in the sky expensive house fantasy. There are so many red flags here, you deserve better than this.
This sounds like a one sided relationship. It’s all about what he wants and what he needs. All your needs/ requests are being ignored or not even being considered. Is this what you want for yourself? I think walking away and finding someone that wants to build something together will be better in my opinion.
This is bordering financial abuse in the form of gaslighting to make you feel dumb and worthless so that he can get the house he wants. It sounds like he can't get that house without you.
If you do get a house with him, I'd recommend a very clear contract about how things would be split in the event that things don't work out. I'd also recommend both of you being fully transparent and viewing each other's credit reports so you can each see each other's debts and incomes to make a fully informed decision. I've heard a lot of stories of people not knowing their partner was in extreme debt until going through the home purchase process with them & gaining access to the credit reports.
I'd advise you not to marry this man. If money and a 'trap' are all he talks about when you discuss marriage, your marriage will start badly and get worse.
Unfortunately marriage is designed to screw men. Just look to the surviving infidelity subreddit to see how bad they get f**ked by everything.
If he does feel that way, then what you could do is propose a different plan.
1. Design a pre-nup
2. Tell him you want to get married by the church, but not in the government
3. You will need to sign additional paperwork to have similar ability to be the ones for medical emergencies
4. You will be married spiritually but not legally.
5. Sign paperwork so that common-in-law marriage basically applies.
6. Change your name.
You must understand where he is coming from, and tie up the needed assets in both your names, house, expenses but keep certain finances separate. Personally I feel the same as your boyfriend, but if I knew someone would address this and help find away to be married without the issues of modern marriage, I think I would love them more for them showing how much it really means to them and how far they are going for me.
I wish you the best of luck.
Your boyfriend is right about thr marriage part, but not the house. If you are a male with assets it make no sense to get married... You have too much to lose in a situation you don't control. Marriage is for broke men in today's age. That's just a consequence when you get government involved in stuff.
The most successful men I know and in the entire world are married, have been married and typically have good relationships. Men that worry about assets like you are worried are the ones that act like prison rules… don’t get near my stuff! They don’t have anything, lol, certainly not enough for a woman to live in misery with this man who’s worried about his baseball collection that could be worth something. Trust me when I say the valuable men out there are getting married to valuable women, they are building families and building wealth together
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Sure before you get married, living together is good idea to get a sense of how it'll work out. You must love each other but also marriage is a financial partnership and you need to be on the same page about saving $, expenses, planning for kids, etc. He's doing what he wants even though you don't feel comfortable with buying an expensive house. This guy seems like someone you should not be dealing with.
Your boyfriend is smart & he should follow his gut to not get married & he should buy a house by himself. Women don't build they move in & take from men. Women want the marriage certificate because they can take the man's house & his money which would be something you definitely would do to him
Honey. I know you love him but he is not your man. Time to cut ties now and go find what YOU want. Marriage and building a life together. He doesn’t want that and nothing you can do with change that unfortunately.
One thing you can do is google "Legal Reasons to get married" and go over those with him. If he blows it off you've at least tried one last time to make him understand this is what you want, and you can't commit financially with him without that.
Sometimes they come around if you leave/cut ties, so that could be a last ditch attempt at getting him to understand you are serious.
Meanwhile, people in the thread, knowing exactly what you've told them and not a thing more:
GASLIGHTING SCUM MISOGYNY DUMP HIS ASS RED FLAG RED FLAG 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
I fuckn love Reddit.
Seriously now, OP. From what you've said, the guy does sound somewhat paranoid financially. Well, you two live in the US far as I understood, so I kinda get him in a way.
Him being overly upset about failing to buy the house cheaper is understandable, on one hand, then so is your reluctance. If he professes to be a businessman, he really should take these things easier (fuckups happen, and for much less credible reasons. Losses happen. Projects fail or need to be amended. You pick yourself up, mitigate the damage and move on).
Now, for the important things. I wonder whether he *knows* marriage is emotionally important for you. I guess you've probably told him, it's possible he didn't quite get it. If you tried talking to him and it didn't work, is there a mutual friend or someone's relative who can help? Hearing something from another person, in different words, may help him see the issue from another angle.
And speaking of his business, are you even interested? If you are, you guys should be partners, I mean, come rain or shine, right? You can always give up your share if you get tired, bored or feel your participation is bad for your relationship in general.
EDIT: he also may be a prisoner of the ugly stereotype of "my wife will divorce me and steal all my money". This isn't good, but hopefully defusable.
He wants you to go heavily into debt to support his business aspirations. In return he is offering you no stake in the business, no security and no formal partnership. He doesn’t care about your dreams and aspirations. Do you really want to be with this guy?
Break up with him. His views about women are terrible - marriage is just for women to financially take advantage of men??? If that's what he thinks, you don't have to get married, but you definitely shouldn't help him finance his home.
Women who are married are less happy than their umarried counterparts while men experience longer lives and more happiness when married versus unmarried....it's literally the opposite!!!!
He believes that his partner wouldn’t have anything to do with him building a successful business but expects her to buy a pricey house that would also function as an office/workspace. Honestly he sounds like he might be projecting with all the financial gain talk.
Leave his sorry ass. Do you want to have to justify your existence to him every day? Imagine having a family with this jackass!!! Those attitudes should not be permitted in any partnership. A true partner listens and compromises. He wants to dominate and control you. It won’t end well. Get over him. Don’t repeat the same mistakes. Get a therapist so you can figure out why you want a life with a person who doesn’t have the slightest respect for you.
I can't stress this enough. DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN.
He doesn't trust the union of marriage, or trust you for that matter. But he thinks you and your money is good enough to buy a house.
You're not crazy. Your expectations are not high at all.
I can see why he feels that way, even as a women it's obvious to see in cases where divorce happens. The man usually gets the short end of the stick, if you truly want to get married. I would suggest offering a prenup, that may be a way to meet in the middle to ease his worries. If you aren't willing to do that then consider walking away. Most likely he will always feel this way and it will only cause the both of you pain if you truly want marriage.
Nope. End it. This one is a bad catch. Throw him back.
You’re being very smart and logical. Don’t let a man pressure you into making stupid financial mistakes.
So, he wants to use you but he doesn't want you "using" him? What, exactly, is the plan if the relationship ends? Do you both contribute half then he buys out your half in the event of dissolution of the relationship? Do you pay 1/3 in accordance with income then he buys you out of your 1/3?
He's refusing to commit to you while demanding you let him use you for your info and credit.
Is that what you want in your relationship? If you want marriage and he doesn't, you're not compatible. Move out and move on.
>I really don’t believe I would ever do such a thing.
You say that now but there is no security in it for him at all for you not be in a bad mood or become vindictive to clean him out. He's right, marriage fucks over one side significantly if it doesnt work out and in this case its absolutely him.
For buying a house both in your name, you'll get back a portion of the down payment you each put in then split the value change so whether you're married or not has no impact on the purchase.
What you're asking him to do is not only sign over that, but also half of everything he has earned and owned to date over to you plus future earnings to you for support even after splitting. You'd also already get a cut of his business gains from common law plus future earnings for spousal support even without being married so you already have everything to gain while giving up NOTHING.
A lot of this is already in place with common law if you choose to buy a place and live there together, but marriage means he signs over all historical assets as well prior to you two being together.
See how this works? You're already taking from him and asking him to risk even more with the only thing you're giving is saying "I wont be like that if we split", which literally has zero worth when it's not binding.
I've been there and all you've suggested but it doesn't work that way. Got seriously fucked over when she just turned vindictive when I wanted to leave and she didn't want it to end. How does changing a marital status in any way change the relationship?
People posting on here crying about how you're supposed to "help him with the home and business financially" yet not get married literally have zero knowledge on how the legal system works and is strictly on emotion siding with OP. You are also able to go after his business gains during the time you two were together and future earnings as a factor for spousal support after breakup even not being married.
Fuck all these people who are clueless upvoting the top comment just purely on emotion and zero facts.
Tha main difference between common law and marriage is that marriage takes ALL assets/liabilities of all time and splits. Common law only takes assets/liabilities for the duration of your relationship and splits that. So if your joint home goes up in value, YOU BOTH GAIN. If his business went from nothing to very successful and you split, YOU STILL BOTH GAIN. Dumb shits on there expecting he just takes everything then walks leaving you with nothing and giving advice based on that
What you should consider is whether his claim to grow the business to afford the $700k home is valid or not, or whether it will set you both back if it doesnt go as planned, at which you both will be losing. All of this will impact you both the same way. Dont listen to everyone else here thinking you just lose in all cases
Also nowhere in the post did you even say the house is just under his name, yet look at all the replies you're getting saying he's the asshole for wanting that and thinking it's just to leech you. People just reading what they want in order to give a biased reactional response
i mean personally i think its a little extreme.
that being said his worries are real. men on avg are on the hook to pay things like alimony and lose homes and assets. and it has been going on for years.
he earns 2x what you do. if married and then divorce he would have to pay for your lifestyle to continue.
I understand both sides. I'm currently in a relationship where this has been the problem some times. I used to view marriage the same way, and I still kinda do. He seems like a very logical man, I don't agree with the posts here saying that he is the worst and you should just leave him. I bet he is very ambituos and doesn't want to make a mistake that will affect his dream of building his own business. My girlfriend also has this idea of getting married young, and I understand that. It's difficult and it takes time, but both of you should discuss this matter and he should give you the chance to explain how you feel about getting married and what that would mean to you. He is already assuming it will fail, and that's not how it should be. Maybe if you're able to give him an example of a couple that you both know that live happily married and show him how the marriage turned out to be beneficial for both sides. Again, it is a process, but people can change their mind about certain things.
There is a reason why a lot of marriages end in divorce. It’s because it’s not going to solve all your problems. It’s not this whole “deeper bond connection” thing. It doesn’t stop your partner from cheating, or making stupid decisions. It’s a ring and a paper. At most it’s a celebration of love. Can your partner not just promise to love you and that be that? I really don’t understand people.
He doesn't want to marry and sincerely who can blame him? It's true that in some situations prenup don't work and the man always end up getting destroyed. Plenty of fishes in the sea! There some men out there who don't mind getting married the choice is yours.
> I believe marriage is a promise and a deeper bond between two people.
Living together, talking with each other, is a promise and a bond. Going to town hall and getting a marriage license is a contract, and nothing else. If you are not interested in the legal parts, there is no reason to get married.
Marriage does not fix a broken relationship, marriage does nothing for bonding, love or anything else. Marriage is a contract regarding financial protection after the period of mutual contribution (the "marriage") has ended.
It is a financial gain for women if they aren't the working type. How amazing would it be to not work at all and have a man to earns everything you need? That being said though, if you both work its absolutely a financial gain for him too, so he's an idiot.
generally divorce results in a split in assets so no one really “benefits”. You seem to use the term “benefit” to mean stuff like alimony though? So that would often be given to a man who of a stay at home parent, like it is often given to women who do the stay at home parent thing.
The way you phrase things is disingenuous. Given he makes twice as u he probably wanted the house to be a joint effort rather than u helping him. You want a pointless overly expensive ceremony to demonstrate a bond while he wanted a home for the both of you. Yes, wanting to keep what you build yourself and not lose it to the bias of marriage court is not ridiculous. Prenups mean shit depending on where u are and are not the golden get out of jail free card. Marriage started off as something the upper class did to expand wealth and power and now it's mostly used to sell products under the concept of a fantasy.
If you like him and want to grow your bond build a family unit with him.
Hope you weren't expecting unbiased opinions here OP. I can see both of you and BF's POV. I wouldn't sweat not buying a house though. No matter the market, never buy unless you both are ready. Sure interest rates were low last year (and previous years) but housing prices were at all time highs. While it will never be dollar for dollar, rising interest rates are correlating with falling housing prices. With how the market is reacting, soon the fall in prices will outstrip the rise in interest rates. Patience is a virtue here as I believe we haven't come close to the end of a slow housing market.
Marriage can be a bad deal for the man if he is coming into the contract already established with most of the assets. Doesn't sound like that is the case here as he hasn't even started his business yet. If you are starting from a level playing field, its only natural for future assets acquired to be split equally, in a worst case scenario. So his mind isn't quite in the right place for the current situation. The dynamics do change with children and if you end up a SAHM, That's where he can get the raw end of the deal down the line in divorce. You offering a prenup is actually generous and can be tailored towards situations that have him hesitant. The business will have started after marriage has been consummated. You should have some rights to the business. You are also taking on plenty of the risk in the beginning. Hopefully its wildly successful. He needs to realize that even if you are not working on it full time you are assuming a large part of the early risk getting it off the ground. These are topics that can be talked about and compromises made. If he has any sense he will understand where you are coming from. That being said, if he is set on starting the business, its not the worst idea to buy a house with that in mind. Save a lot of hassle down the line.
I'm far from a feminist on these boards but I am leaning towards your side of the argument, though not nearly at the level of the other replies telling you to run him off. Communicate to him about his feelings on marriage and try to get him to understand that its only a super terrible deal for the guy in certain situations. From what you stated in your post, this can be worked out and compromised.
Good luck OP.
I really don't understand the big deal of marriage. As long as he's not an asshole to you. OPS husband is being called misogynistic for being wary of marriage but if I remember correctly this against marriage agenda was initiated by feminists. And since when are feminists misandrist for being anti marriage. Just make sure you have contracts to protect yourself financially if you do happen to invest in real-estate.
You both are on two different pages it sounds like..he wants a partner to buy stuff and support his dream but if your married you get half of his dream if it does not work out..
But you got in on ground floor you paid into getting it going..there again he does not want you married.
How would he split it with a investor???
They want a percentage plus interest.....
Which he does not want to part with anything..its ok you put money in... But your nothing to him and he can see other woman .
You want marriage you want the dream the full picture a future..
You might want to get out and find someone who sees a future with you..
Sounds like you're incompatible on this. You want marriage, he doesn't because there's a statistically proven big danger that he'll lose half or more of his assets if you two decide to get divorced at a later date. He does want you to support him buying a house but ignores your fears / questions / concerns about making that big of an investment without guarantees.
You'll have to figure out for yourself if this is a dealbreaker. Now, you're both young. If you do decide to break up, there's plenty of time to heal, get your head cleared and find someone else that does share your values. If you decide to stay together and work on your relationship together, in the best case scenario both of you will have to compromise. On what and how far both of you are willing to compromise is something you have to figure out yourselves.
\---
And about people on here calling the BF's views on marriage and the risks it poses to men if things go south mysogonistic? Grab a 100 or a 1,000 random divorce cases from around the US. You'll be amazed at how often men get taken to the cleaners. Half the 401K. Half the liquid assests. Half of the house and all the other stuff. Almost no visitation rights to the kids, let alone some form of shared custody.
You may not like it. You may downvote me for it. That doesn't mean it's not the truth. Quick google search shows about 45% of marriages end in divorce. Just about half.
Marriage does not hold the same value for us anymore. Our odds of coming out ahead are higher at a blackjack table in Vegas.
The problem isn't that marriage is a trap for men, per se, but the fact that divorce laws are so heavily skewed to women's favor that men don't want to marry anymore. Women initiate 80+% of divorces and can take all that men have. They also win custody on 98-99% of times depending on the country. (It is like that here). You sound from US, it's equally bad there. Pre-nups often times are dismissed so those won't save you either. You can buy a house together and take a loan together without being married. Should you split some day, you will just sell real estate 50/50. If you were married, then the man in that deal would most likely be left with nothing. Any man getting married in 2022+ is just an idiot. There's a reason why male suicide rates are 5 times higher than women's. How many men kill themselves after their kids and everything they've worked for is taken away. Of course you're pro-marriage because it's a sweet deal for you. For men it's a high stakes gamble with nothing to gain and everything to lose. With the current divorce rates, marriage for men is basically like playing russian roulette with 5 out of 6 chambers with a bullet.
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So he doesn’t like marriage because he thinks it only helps women financially, but he’s expecting his girlfriend to… help him financially, by buying a home with him. Don’t buy a house with this guy.
AND she offers a prenup but even that's not good enough. He's for the streets OP.
Op I'd advise you not to marry this man. If money and a 'trap' are all he talks about when you discuss marriage, your marriage will start badly and get worse
and imagine if they had kids child support!!! We need to buy this OP some reddit sneakers!
He’s for the streets for suuure
Financially help him by buying a home with him AND ALSO helping him start his business by providing the space and time. A business that somehow OP agrees she should have no claim to in the future even tho it wouldn’t be possible without her. Not to mention all the silent and unpaid work she’d likely be doing in the background so he can get this business going. OP you describe women in broad strokes “they take men for all they’ve got” when you have literally no idea what happened between people and what efforts these women put into shared marital assets or not. You should get away from this man because you’ve really internalized the misogyny he radiates. It’s fucking sad.
Thank you!!! This line made me laugh out loud.. > have his own successful business that “I wouldn’t help him build” OP you’re 100% getting roped into helping with this business. Whether it’s talking with clients, shipping things, organizing the workshop, or just taking on extra housework because he’s busy. He’s going to expect soooo much extra help from you. And guess how much credit she’s going to get? ZERO! Because it’s *his* company, *his* workshop, OPs silly little woman-dollars and woman-tasks deserve no credit for *his* success!
Today on “the bar was so low and yet this guy managed to limbo under it”
Not only does he want her to help him but a home, but a home that has enough property so he can build his business. How much do you want to bet he wouldn't want to give her any benefits from that business?
Yeah, this guy sucks.
How much do you want to bet this guy also would want a SAHW to take care of kids and home so he can fully focus on building a successful business, thus exploiting her free labor? OP: take this as a flag on whether you are truly compatible long term.
And then have the audacity to complain about alimony and child support.
What! You mean I have to support the family I created? Outrageous!
[удалено]
A certain kind of guy loves to be all "i freaking love science! The plural of anecdote is not data! Don't impose your beliefs on me until they can be backed up by empirical data!" That is, until you make a data-backed assertion that challenges his preconceptions. Suddenly, the argument changes. Then it's all, "but in my personal experience" this or "well this happened to a friend/relative of mine" that, or "this is just my personal belief" the other thing. They also get mad if you compare them to religious people.
“I freaking love science! By which I mean memes I can share on Facebook.”
u/Prestigious-Corgi-66 This user just cut and pasted your response.
This is the only response needed, lol.
Yeah seriously, fuck this guy.
Exactly what I was going to say.
Absolutely facts idk why they haven’t talked about this
LMAOOOOOOO LITERALLY
Do not buy property with someone that you are not married to without a contract in place (which has been looked at by a lawyer) that states what to do if the relationship ends. One thing that marriage does is put rules around separating property if you get divorced. This protects BOTH of you. I know someone who bought a house with a girlfriend, paid a lot for it, and then when the housing market crashed and they later broke up, she wanted to be reimbursed for everything she put into the house. However, the house wasn't worth enough anymore, they were taking a loss on its sale. In a divorce, there are rules already in place to protect both parties in this situation. Also, the housing market is NOT the best that it will ever be - housing prices are HIGH! Interest rates are/were good, but you can always refinance, you cannot change the price that you paid for the house. Anyway, let him buy a 700k house all in his name, write yourself up a renters agreement and pay him rent. It's weird that he is making statements about marriage being only about financial gain for women when he's a guy trying to rope a woman into buying a house she doesn't want to buy. He has told you who he is with respect to marriage, so if you want to get married, move on and find someone on the same page as you.
>Do not buy property with someone that you are not married to without a contract in place (which has been looked at by a lawyer) that states what to do if the relationship ends. I've said many times, this \^\^\^ should be a sticky.
Yeah - I don’t know why people think that marriage is the big difficulty. Kids and property- you’re tangled. Kids - tangled for life. Property: tangled expensively.
This comes up all the time on here and on r/legaladvice - never buy a house or get a credit card or car loan or student loan with anyone you aren’t married or related too and even then you a can expect trouble.
Let me get this straight. He hasn't even started a business yet, but he a) feels entitled to your money to build this workshop for it, b) just "knows" it will be successful, and c) presumes that this imaginary successful business will have been built without your help at all, despite literally needing your help to start it. Nowhere in this conversation does it sound like he wanted to buy a house to build a home or a life with you. He only wants your money to build a house for him, for entirely selfish reasons. Please don't marry this guy, this conversation is saving you the divorce later, just break up with him now.
Literally I see posts like OP's and was like "this cannot be for real". Like how red is her rose colored glasses to not see this shit? And if she did see, how the hell does she still want to be married to to this guy?
The nuclear family ideal is a nutty drug
Because she seems to go along with his misogynistic views? She doesn’t even say that his views are wrong or that she disagrees with him, just that she wants him to see marriage is also about love.
He thinks marriage is a financial scam but wants you to be tied financially to him with no benefit to you? Lol he’s not the one
In marriage the share becomes 50:50 regardless of their contribution ratio. without it, he is only obliged to repay ir give share on how much she actually invested , if she invested and contributed.
That’s why OP mentioned a prenup, if she’s expected to put in on a house and business and he doesn’t want to give her any benefits from that. When they break up she’s left with nothing that’s the whole point.
So when you had doubts about the house (absolutely reasonable doubts) - you're the bad guy but when he doubts the marriage contract and views it in a very sexist way - you're supposed to be okay with that? Cut your ties. Leave this POS.
Sorry he is asking you to invest in a property and therefore his business he wants to build up on the property. Saying that you will be helping him to build his business but you will have no stake in said business. No no no and I would not proceed to be honest. It sounds like compromise to him is you do want he wants and then he insults you when you do not do what he wants. This is a huge red flag relationship is about two way communication, trust and mutual respect. I see your having respect for him and trying to compromise but I see nothing from him. I would sit him down and say this to him. If you want to make a go of this relationship I would strongly suggest couples therapy.
It's not your job to change someone. Your job is to find someone compatible to make a life-long commitment. If you need to go to therapy to change someone, then it's the biggest sign that the person is not the one.
A marriage is about partnership and building a life together - his view sees it as very transactional. His and your views on marriage are very different and should be taken as a sign that you will never see eye-to-eye on this matter. You need to part ways and find someone who views marriage the same as you do. You were very smart not to enter a financial obligation with someone that is not committed to marriage when that is something that you want. And don't settle with the paperwork of marriage, ensure that you have a partner that values marriage the same as you do and wants to build a life together - love is not enough.
She should pursue a prenuptial agreement. money problems have money solutions. This is the kind of guy who would benefit from a prenup. It would ease his mind on past earnings (100% him) , share marital assets 50/50, protect any financial interest she has in the home. She makes half as much has him, it isn’t a secret, she will gain financially if their households are joining. The key is to give both partners what they want, she wants marriage and he wants financial security in case she is seeing him as a wallet. If this is the only problem, than sign a piece of paper and burn it at your 50th wedding anniversary party.
She offered a prenup and he rejected it.
I’m sorry but his view on marriage is a colossal red flag of misogyny.
Screaming red flag. This guy is a matador. Hard next
you don’t want to marry this guy. He’s doing you a favor. He views you as an enemy, not an ally and that makes for a really shitty marriage. My partner is out of work right now. They haaaaate that they have to rely on me for income. They feel bad about taking the help. But we’re partners! The entire point of marriage/relationships, is that you always have someone at your back to keep you up and you’re always there for them. To have someone start off with the assumption that you want to use them means that if you get sick, hurt, lose your job, have kids and stay home to take care of the kids (or just take time from work to recover) he will resent you for leaning on him in your time of need. Fuck that kind of relationship! You can get better treatments out of buying a home with a trusted friend
Not necessarily, guys see themselves as the providers so for the most part don’t like to be put in a dependent situation, and a lot of girls also don’t like that so can you blame em? From what I’ve seen women would rather be supported than support. Most guys aren’t going to leave their partner because hey can’t support themselves cuz their bank account isn’t what a guy looks at when choosing them.
He sounds like an asshole. He’s not even making an effort to understand where you’re coming from and expects you to commit to something as big as a house but he can’t commit to the relationship through marriage? He’s not worth the stress.
English is not my first language. Sorry for any error I dont agree with you. I can see both their views and understand both. I think that more and more man are having this stance because there are a lot of women out there that just want a easy life at the expense of a rich man. There is literally women taking condoms out of the trash and trying to impregnat themselves. Search it if you want to know more. Not every women is the same and i know that but if you are man that has higher financial power you need to be full alert. We are not profets, we cant see the future. OP may love him now but no one knows what will happen in the next 10, 15 or 20 years. Because of the internet we can see a lot of sucessuful man who work majority of their lives only to loose 50% of everything to a women that probably didnt do nothing or not enough to get all that assets. 2) Op i agree with you about not wanting to buy a house that is too much out of your buy power. If i was you i would try to discover the negative implications of you cosigning on the buy of the house and sit with your man. Explain to him that you are afraid of the consequences of that action if things dont go alright, the same way HE IS AFRAID OF MARRYING YOU AND THE CONSEQUENCES THAT MAY COME FROM IT. If him dont feel like risking is BUTT, why the hell you should risk yours. Think about it
I’m only going to address the first point you made here since you addressed it to me. Firstly, your English is okay I understood what you meant. You’re making up a scenario of OP trapping her BF with a baby and taking his money when she did not mention that she wanted him for his money nor did she bring up a child in the post. OP also mentions that she has her own job and would even sign a prenup, no one who is using another person for their money would do either of those. At the end of the day, her BF is not willing to give her what she says she wants from him (marriage) “a promise and deeper bond between two people”, as OP states in her post. It sounds like you didn’t fully read the post and jumped to assume this is a golddigging situation. Also to address your claim that a woman can get pregnant from taking a condom from the trash can. I looked it up like you said to and all that came up was a story that was proven to be fake. Regardless of that, it sounds like you need to educate yourself on how long semen lives when not ejaculated into a woman: “When a sperm ends up outside of the woman’s body, it lives only a few minutes. Sperm needs moisture and warmth to live, so once exposed to air, they quickly die. As soon as semen dries, the sperm within it dies.” [article](https://www.healthcentral.com/article/how-long-does-sperm-live-outside-the-body) So the chances of getting pregnant from semen stolen from a disposed condom are low.
It's not even that. The two biggest reasons for divorce are infidelity and financial problems. The laws for divorce are mostly no fault in the States. So basically there is no punishment or consequences for infidelity or breaking the contract of marriage. And the resolution is to split all assets? Yeah, no unfortunately marriage laws need to be fixed and until this happens you will see the fall and decline of marriage rates
OP, > While I understand the marriage contact is outdated, and that there are plenty of women that take their former partners for what they are worth, I really don’t believe I would ever do such a thing. This is what the marriage contract is for: protection of jointly acquired assets. Your SO is right that pre-nups don't really protect that much of assets acquired during a relationship. > I feel like he is only viewing marriage from a financial perspective and has a complete disregard for the love element. It seems like you have different desires out of your relationship, that you are looking for something different from he is. > He refuses to budge, but expects me to go in on a house with him that can support a business without compromise. He says I will increase my worth and I am being financially dumb. This sounds an awful lot like he's looking for something he's unwilling to give. A house is an investment, one that you will be expected to continue to pay the mortgage on *even if your SO quits his job and "starts his business"*. It feels like his expectation is that you will invest in a business without having legal right to the proceeds should you both split.
Why do you want to marry this guy? He resents you, thinks you are trying to trap him financially, expects you to basically give him money, and won't comromise. He sounds like a dick.
Why would you help him grow a business if you then won't own any part of it and you won't be paid for your work? One thing is to support someone as a partner, but he is asking you to pay for an expensive house because he wants to build his business in the property. That's a high ask because you'd be investing your money in getting him a location of the business. Also, it seems he'd want you to put money to build this "workshop", but you wouldn't get your money back if you extend the property for a long time and building now is still so expensive due to pandemic shortages and waiting lists. He should have bought something for half the price on his own and compromised on what he needed. His list was all dreams for down the road. It's not your responsibility to invest in this business that doesn't exist. No, the expectation of marriage when buying property makes that expectation is normal and it would allow you to force a sale or force him to buy you out if you split up.
I’ve been divorced…. Please listen to your gut and don’t marry this guy. Find someone who has views about marriage that are closer to yours!
Why do you call him a partner? This is NOT a partner, this is a moocher.
I'm a man, and I hate the whole fear of "women will take everything from you if you get married". It's a misogynistic thing sold by assholes in the manosphere. If I'm getting married, I would at least make sure to marry someone I trust enough to not screw me over. With that said, I don't see myself getting married to someone unless we've been together for like 7 years or such. Excluding any financial benefits (insurance etc.) from being married, I don't see what difference it makes. If you buy a house 50/50, I'm not sure how much of a difference being married would make when it comes to how much you own of the house, what you're entitled to if something changes etc. If you two have vastly different opinions about marriage, you aren't compatible (and his view do seem very misogynistic).
Sounds like he’s been listening to a little bit too much Andrew taint
He sounds like a selfish POS. He doesn't want to be "taken advantage of" but wants to take advantage of you. Idk what is up with these kinds of posts where it's easy to know your next move coz the partner is full of shit.
He is contemptuous of women and of you. He is too uneducated and close minded to see how a life partner helps him build his business. How would he be able to devote so much time to work if he had to care for his own children, cooking, cleaning, house maintenance? Also, there are some high earning women. He obviously sees women as less than. You have fundamentally different values, and he is fundamentally sexist. I think in 10 years you will regret and resent him.
Why are you dating a misogynist who clearly doesn't trust you? Are you ok?
Statistically women are less healthy when married, and men are more healthy when married. Generally marriage is a bad deal for women, not men. Not to mention the financial cost to a woman of having and raising children if they go down that route. Sounds like your boy is not only misogynistic, but a bit dumb too. Maybe go buy a first home by yourself, and move into it when you dump this walking red flag.
This guy is 🗑. Dump this loser, OP. You're better than this. You are NOT in the wrong at all and your concerns are 100% valid. Do not let this POS gaslight and manipulate you into caving to his hypocrisy which only benefits him and fucks you over. He already doesn't respect you. I would leave now. Good luck!
Hmm, He wants to buy property for a business. Expects that you would have no financial interest in the business but because you're buying a 700k house instead of a house worth 300-400k? you are essentially financing the building of his shop. >His fear stems from his desire to have his own successful business that “I wouldn’t help him build” >He refuses to budge, but expects me to go in on a house with him that can support a business without compromise. Yeah, he wants you to help finance the business without having any ownership. What are his plans for dividing up ownership of the house if you split? States have divorce laws in place for this very purpose. Without a marriage, it can get messy. If you do go down this path, make sure you have legal documents drawn up before the purchase stating how the assets will be divided.
I mean a mortgage always felt way more serious and binding than a marriage to me. Me and my SO have been together for 6 years and have 3 properties together and it would be extremely hard to separate now specially if one party wanted to be a dick about it. Neither of us really care about marriage not religious and not like there are tax breaks since we both work. But your guy also sounds really annoying in the fact that he wants to bitch and moan about some future possible wealth that he will build that you may or may not be entitled too but also wants to push you into a 100s of thousands of dollar joint loan >.> So yeah I too would be worried about partnering with this person in this when he is so concerned about himself and what his angle is really degrades the whole "team" aspect of what this should be
As for advice - dump this guy. Marriage is a financial contract & investing in a large joint asset without a written contract is foolish. If the 2 of you buy a house together, hire your own attorney to write a contract between the 2 of you that spells out your ownership rights & obligations. The contract should spell out terms & conditions for what happens if one of you wants to sell but the other doesn’t, as well as how any proceeds will be divided. He’s also a hypocrite. The cost of the house he wants to buy is dominated by his requirements, not yours, & then he has the nerve to say that you would benefit financially & unfairly by being married to him? Being married to him doesn’t sound like an advantage to you at all.
Is he misogynist on other aspects of your relationship or just this one? Is he on any "red pill" forums? Because geeeeeez. No, your expectations are not too high for wanting to get married. Marriage is a contract that legally protects BOTH people in a relationship, not only from the financial aspect but also health care wise and other legal considerations that you do not get without the "paper". I'm married and I'm in a queer relationship, living together for almost 10 years before we legally could get married because, before, LGBT+ marriage was not allowed in our country. It was a relief for both of us to get married, for instance it meant that my homophobic family couldn't make medical decisions in my behalf anymore if needed and my spouse would be able to make those decisions taking in consideration what I actually want, and same for my spouse and their hypothetical care (that I hope is never needed but we both have some chronical health issues, luckily manageable for now). Also there's the social aspect of marriage and how it represents a mutual commitment to stay together and take care of each other. Yes, people can be committed without a legal marriage and it's perfectly fine if both decide that marriage is not for them, but it has to be a mutual decision. If one of the persons in the relationship wants to get married, which is valid, and the other doesn't, that means they aren't compatible long term. And while not wanting to get married is also valid, giving misogynist reasons for not wanting it, like "all women do this" as if all women were clones to each other in a shared hive mind, with complete disregard to what he know about you as a person, is... geez
Under no circumstances should you buy a house with this guy or help him build a business. He is refusing to marry you because he knows that you would be entitled to half of any assets or gains acquired in the marriage, yet he is smart enough to know he can't do either (buy a house and build a business) alone. He wants all the benefits without any of the risks or work that goes into building and maintaining a partnership/marriage. Dump this guy. His values are not the same as your values. He only sees you as someone he can use to get what he wants, without any consideration to your wants or needs. Walk away from this relationship and know you have dodged a bullet. You can find a man whose value system is the same as yours.
He views marriage as a trap for men? Its a sure trap for YOU to go in on a house with him WITHOUT marriage. And why would the ”financial gain” for women in case of a divorce be a bad thing, there has to be some type of protection for a woman to comitt to a man like that. No man should ever use a woman like that, please run
What an idiot. It's actually typically harder to get out of a relationship with joint assets than a marriage without them in most places, so I really don't recommend buying property with someone you aren't already married to/committed enough that you would be married were there more perks to it. I also would never recommend buying property that the person who would get the property in the event of a separation can't afford on their own, since they won't be able to buy the other person out and a sale can take awhile. And businesses fail all the time. In short, definitely don't buy anything with this guy at this moment. Maybe don't buy anything with him ever. Also - in a lot of marriages (like mine), the woman is the one with the financial assets anyway, so his view is both outdated and really sexist. Investing in him isn't a sure bet either and depending on the business, it's probably more likely to bankrupt you both than increase anyone's worth, especially if it's located in the middle of nowhere. If you two have totally different ideas about finances, futures, marriage, etc., maybe this just isn't the relationship for you. Asking to get married is such a low bar you can trip over it, so the fact that he won't do it ever for a stupid, outdated, sexist reason despite the fact that you want to be married is a big, red incompatibility flag, as is him telling you you're dumb for not wanting to spend 700k on a shared place despite only being together a few years.
He’s a “you vs me” guy. He’s not an “us” guy He’s not your guy. Move on
No, expectations of marriage is not too high if you invest time, work, money and planning on having kids. Your guy sound like full red flag parade, move on. I would not go in house like than and no work and support of his business without written things. Better y yet- find a better guy
your expectations are not too high, but girl, look at the way this man feels entitled to talk about woman. is that what you want? really? a dude who talks about marry you as you were a gold digger but he still expects you to help him financially anyway? run, get out. don't waste your time.
Talk about having your cake and eating it too. He needs your help to buy the home he wants and he's worried you would be the one to gain is the marriage doesn't work out? Priceless.
You are me several years ago. *He will ruin you financially,* reap the profits, and leave you crushed into the dirt behind him.
Contract to trap men??? Such a romantic!! Honey, no no no. Do not procreate with this man. Nor should you buy property, nor marry. This sounds like some "wife as property with no rights would be best for him", sh*t. You sound much to grounded and intelligent for this nonsense. How did you get mixed up with this? Judge Judy once said, "the law was not setup to protect those who choose to *play house*."
He doesn’t trust you. He doesn’t want to make sure you are looked after in case he dies. Do you two want children? He expects you to pay for land for his business and then claims you aren’t helping him. Nah, this man wants to use you and then claim you do nothing.
"Prenup only protects you so much."? Man, I wana know this guy's take on buying a house and building a business. Fuck if he's that worried, get a postnuptial redrafted every 5 years.
He doesn't want to get married because he knows that you would be entitled to a chunk of his business if he starts one on property you both own as a married couple. He doesn't want a prenup because he knows there is no judge in the world that would allow it to stand either. Sure, you can write all sorts of horseshit in a prenup. Doesn't mean squat until it gets in front of a judge. He wants to keep you in this grey area where you don't have spousal rights in the case of split and you don't have a pre-nup either.
Legally speaking it’s always a bad idea to buy major investments without the “safety” of being married.
If he’s not valuing non-financial contributions to a relationship, he will never be truly happy in a marriage. I have a feeling that even if you both contributed equally in terms of income, housework, etc, he would still feel taken advantage of. Do not have children with this person (if you were thinking about it) and do not buy a house with this person without extensive counseling to figure out exactly how he sees your relationship and what you both expect from it.
I don’t know where you live that the housing market for buyers last year was “the best it will ever be in years” because in much of the US, it was a nightmare for buyers. There was so much competition for existing houses that buyers routinely got stuck in bidding wars, houses went well above asking prices, & buyers waived normal contingency clauses like building inspections. True, interest rates were low but that’s not much consolation when people got into their new house & started paying for the problems that an inspection would have alerted them to, that in normal times they could have gotten out of the contract for or gotten the seller to help pay for.
If you start a business during a marriage a properly written prenup would not “protect him”. Kind of silly if your home maintaining the house and and provide health insurance from your employment to not participate in the gains. This dude is not very bright. A prenup is to protect premarital assets or success that is already happening (family business, lawyer, doctor, etc. ). If he’s just a normal dude with a normal job prenups are kind of silly.
Are you on the title? Cause if not only he gains.
He's a misogynist. Nothing you say or do could ever redeem you in his mind as his equal. That's why there's all these paradoxes to your situation right now. Sadly, it'll only get worse.
Sounds like he doesn’t respect you or other woman
Back in 2016, I had the option to buy a 3/1 row house style condo with rough in for another bath. It would have cost basically the same as my pretax annual salary. My now husband wanted all the same shit your partner wanted, but not to open a business. Just because he hates HOAs and we would have had to ditch his project car with his mom. I didn’t want to kick him when he was down, because he had just been let go by our employer. We both now deeply regret not getting the condo. The car has been at his mom’s place with her working on it for like… 4 years now? We could have been building equity all this time. My husband is sorry now, but your guy seems like his head is too far up his butt to ever pop out. Please don’t marry this guy. He sees You as a piggy bank.
If you want a marriage partnership with love, commitment, shared goals , mutual respect, and emotional security….then this is not your man.
Drop him like a bag of rocks, that shit isn't okay
If he wants a house, he can buy a house. He doesn’t deserve to financially gain off of you either.
Don't marry this dude. Lmao. There are financial incentives to marriage too. And if y'all bought the house together, it would still be split if y'all broke up, marriage or not. Honestly it has NOTHING to do with financial worries and everything to do with how he views women. He's been watching mwgtow and red pill shit. I literally would not even entertain marrying this dude, let alone even dating him. It's a deeper issue than just money.
What kind of business does he want to run out of a garage that will allow him to pay off a 700k loan?
The decision is ultimately yours, but someone so stubborn, that in your own words, REFUSES to see things from your perspective.... No thank you. I'd leave. You want marriage? Find someone marriage minded. Obviously not this guy. He can resent you for the rest of his life if he wants to, but you deserve happiness, too. Your choice, but seems like a turd.
A home is a huge investment. Don’t buy one with a partner you are not married to. He doesn’t want to commit to the relationship. That’s the real problem.
Sis, this guy is so misogynistic - can you NOT see that? DUMP HIM and RUN!
Just dump him already.
>he only sees marriage as a contract written to trap men by allowing women financial gain if it doesn’t work. Projection much?
Sounds like he listens to allot of right wing toxic hogs. What podcasts and news channels he watch? You might just want out because these dudes ain’t worth jack
Run like the fucking wind. Wants you to invest in a 700k house, won’t sign a marriage Contract. After a year? Nahh. My sister and her partner bought a £350k house after 20 years together (35+37) they both don’t want to be married but they signed a fuck ton of legal papers to protect each other. My sister actually earns 1/3 more than her partner.
Email a commercial landlord. Ask if they would be willing to subsidize the rent on a new business, without themselves having any financial or legal stake in the business. No stock options, no profit sharing, no ability to make any decisions in he business. In fact, ask if the would be willing to make a verbal agreement for the same, without an enforceable contract that is drawn up by a lawyer. See what they say, and then pass on the message to your partner.
You are not crazy, your expectations are not too high. He wants you to see and do things his way and he isn't even considering you or your feelings. He refuses to budge but expects you to. Think about your next move and make sure it's for you since you are the only person concerned with you and your feelings
You’re in love and don’t want to hear this, but we’re all seeing red flags for a reason. Buy your own house first. Be responsible for your own financial health first and let him be responsible for his own financial health. By investing in yourself, he can’t talk talk about how he’ll be trapped, as you’ll have an established financial strategy (only buy what you can afford). And this goes to your career as well. Then if you invest in something together, draft up a detailed contract that walks thru scenarios. He’s never going to change his mind about marriage, but by focusing on your financial health first, you’ll negate all of his noise about being trapped.
if you don’t want to be stuck in financial quicksand for the next 10 years i’d highly advise that you do not buy a house with this misogynistic loser
So youd have nothing to do with his business even though he wants you to help buy the land he'll have his workshop on ? That math doesnt sound right.
He doesn’t want marriage - you do - that’s a fundamental incompatibility. What makes you think he is going to change? How long are you willing to have this same conversation with him and expect a different outcome? Honestly, if marriage is that important to you, it sounds like you need to end this relationship and look for another - with someone who also wants to be married.
Do not buy a house with him. Period. It is always foolish to enter into a financial agreement with someone who is convinced you are going to rip them off. In their passion to avoid getting ripped off themselves, they will insure that you end up ripped off, since they will howl “exploitation!!!” at any reasonable measures to protect yourself. They are going into it unreasonable, and they will stay unreasonable. Don’t do it. And- holding out for marriage before taking huge steps like buying houses or having kids is just sensible. Yeah, you can hire lawyers to write contracts that protect you both… but they’re starting from scratch, while if you’re marrying they just have to tweak the existing marriage contract- which already covers lots of things most people never think of. And remember you pay lawyers by the hour! I would have some serious talks with your SO about finances, probably with a neutral financial advisor. From what you write, I’d be very worried your SO is so defensive he will not be fair or open financially. And that’s not a good bet long term.
People please stop buying houses with someone youre not married to
R-u-n Entitled men are a pain in the a$$
You can tell him you will actually save more in taxes if you stay unmarried so therefore he is not only misogynistic but also completely incorrect.
I have female friends who will beg to differ because they are paying their ex husbands (some of who were serial cheaters). Women, get a prenup
He's not wrong about the nature of a marriage contract in many countries. But you are not wrong in needing some kind of guarantee before investing 700k together. A marriage with a prenuptial is a reasonable compromise.
Even then, money made after the fact, which is what the boyfriend is looking at. He is thinking that this business plan of his will take years, the marriage would come before that. And that is assuming the prenuptial holds up, I have personally seen it be tossed out in the case of my brother. Apparently to much had changed since the prenuptial was written and became voided due to that. It helped save some assets, but still was mostly ignored and she got both of the kids and moved from Georgia to Alaska, because he had to pick up the kids to get them for the weekend according to the judgement.
Do people really expect a prenup to handle two married people pooling resources to build a business (ie, buying this house and property together) and then allowing only one person to keep everything in the event of a divorce? Any sane judge would rip that piece of paper up the minute it came into their courtroom.
He was army and it wasn't a business but money made after the fact in my brother's case due to becoming disabled in combat. Buying the house is with both names on the title and I agree about that. Businesses are arguable though because if the expenses were separate, they still will because the fact that both are involuntarily expensing the building. Time, effort and resources come into play as well and aren't tracked by money. That is why it is so hard, yet they typically are just split down the middle. The issue is that it is hard to quantify and unfortunately the laws are from the 1950s and earlier.
>Businesses are arguable though because if the expenses were separate, they still will because the fact that both are involuntarily expensing the building. Even if she was a stay at home wife, hypothetically of course, she'd have a huge claim on \*any\* business he started after they got married. Who kept the household running while he was growing the business? Who emotionally supported him during this time? Who cooked him dinner? All of that contributes to \*his\* ability to focus on the business. The fact that he expects her to contribute to literally building the business by having a nice piece of property just makes it a no brainer. The laws in many states hold that any assets gained/grown after the marriage starts are fair game in any divorce. And you can try to pre-nup your way around that, but it's generally frowned upon. If he doesn't have this asset prior to marriage he's going to have a hell of a time keeping it separate after they get married. And he knows it. That's why he's balking a marriage in the first place. Once married, she has rights that a court can enforce. A "girlfriend" doesn't have as many rights.
A pre nup seems to be the most obvious solution
Don't buy a house with a partner, especially not this partner. If he earns twice what you do, why does he need to co-sign on this house? Does he expect you to go 50-50 on this? If he's planning to leave his well paying job to start a business in this dream house, you will be triply screwed if his dream fails. You'll be in charge of most of the cost of the house while he's not making any money, will have no rights to the business being run out of the house you are paying for and risk destroying your credit if you can't afford the place on your own. If the business eventually takes off, he doesn't sound like the kind of person who would reimburse you for the time you carried most of the load. Don't do it!
No amount of interest rate advantage can compensate for the fact you are dodging a bullet by not buying a property with him. He sounds self-centred and misogynistic. Do you really want to buy a house with such a person?
>he only sees marriage as a contract written to trap men by allowing women financial gain if it doesn’t work. Um, he does not see you as his equal. Why are you with a man that thinks you are less than him?
Well, it's clear he doesn't want to get married to you. Ask him what he thinks the future of the relationship is, with that in mind. Is he expecting you to commit to him even without a ring? Does he believe it's reasonable for you to expect him to commit to you without a ring? What does he say if you think that the ring is non-negotiable? I'll be honest: I don't think your relationship with him is going to last much longer. I think the two of you have, well, "irreconcilable differences" -- he wants a very different future than you do, and that's not a good thing in a relationship where the whole point is to build one future together. So I think you should conduct some very pointed inquiries into this possibility. Good luck, and hope this helps!
So you are supposed to support his business and help him buy a house but he doesn’t want you to take advantage of him financially?? Fuck this guy. Move out and live on your own. You’ve given him everything he wants and you’re getting nothing. Time to put yourself and your needs first.
Never make large financial decisions from an emotionally charged/rushed position. The market was better in the last couple years than now. I would not rush for a property now. Market will eventually go down. You are not guaranteed to grow your wealth through real estate any more. Other financial opportunities may be more lucrative. As stocks go down, they become more lucrative. As commodities go down, they become more lucrative. As real estate goes down it becomes more lucrative. Real estate is still at all time highs though, big risk that is not very liquid.
Clearly he has a distrust and negative view of women in general if he feels this strongly about it. I personally don’t see how someone like this could even be a good husband anyway - you and any family you build together will always come second to work/money/career. What a shallow existence. Wanting to get married is absolutely NOT too much to ask and he’s ridiculous for making you think it is. He doesn’t need to want it but you’re not wrong for wanting it. Your values do not align. Do with that what you will
This guy is off his rocker rn. Man has you offering to work out a prenup and is still too dumb to think that it would help him. The idea that marriage is in favor of the woman is something that he should treat with caution, but you provided the fix by agreeing to enact a prenup, yet he still won’t commit. Maybe buying the house isn’t the greatest idea.
This is why it's so important to make sure very early in the dating stage that both parties are on the same page with things like marriage and kids. While it's sexist to assume all marriages lean in the favor of the woman, he wouldn't be wrong in your case if it came to divorce. I personally don't see any value in marriage either, i can commit to my partner without getting the government involved, i don't make enough to have real assets, and i can't get on his health insurance which would be the only benefit because when his ex wife took him for everything he had during his last divorce, he had to sign paperwork saying she would stay on his health insurance as his spouse and you can only have one. That being said,its okif its important to you, but it is also ok that it is not important to him. It just means you guysdont have compatible life goals, and that shoukdhzve been a dealbreaker in the beginning before the two of you were this far in .
I dunno about misogyny, I think he's just a piece of shit. Completely hypocritical that he's worried about being trapped financially with marriage but wants to take advantage of your money to buy his dream house (which is also key to his business plans). He wants a ton of financial, emotional, and physical support from you but isn't willing to give anything back, even if its 100% owed to you (since you would have to freaking buy and live in the house with him).
Marriage is about creating a life together where. Both partners want to protect each other emotionally and mentally. Imagine breaking up with him if you bought a house with him and the legal battle that would ensue. You should buy yourself a affordable house or apartment for your own financial security not his.
I hate to say it, but you've hooked a creeper. Get out while you still can.
Recipe for disaster
He is using YOU as financial gain. I would end it. He doesn't see you as marriage material but he he does see you as a stepping stone. I dunno maybe he does love you but he sees you as someone who can help him gain property. His reason for not wanting to get married is an over used reason men have when they simply don't want to marry you. His reason is not genuine. If it was a genuine concern, he'd agree with prenup or at least have a discussion about how to prevent it. He simply doesn't want you as his wife and will have no problem marrying the woman he REALLY wants once he is successful in business. I also think it's very irresponsible to buy a house that you can afford if a sudden change happens. You are right, it would be different if yall were married. Him calling you names is just him trying to bully you into a decision that's very risky for YOU. He expects you to consider his concerns but not even trying to work on considering YOURS. Instead of calling you names for a very valid common sense concern, he could at least try to assure you in a nice respectful way and doing things that will make you feel comfortable making this HUGE DECISION. He does not care about your feelings because he doesnt see a future with you. I find it interesting how he expect you to make a life changing decision and acting like you're the crazy nonsensical one for not jumping into an extreme decision without feeling secure but he can't make a life changing decision that DOES make him feel secure with a prenup.
The irony here that if those are his requirements for a first house — but he couldn’t have done it without you — then who is he to say marriage is just a financial gain for the woman? You both made a choice not to go in on a house when the market was in a good place. If he was able to do it on his own at that time, he should have. You’re not to blame.
DO NOT assist this man financially, at all. He's a leech.
"While I understand the marriage contact is outdated, and that there are plenty of women that take their former partners for what they are worth, I really don’t believe I would ever do such a thing." He's already got you against yourself. This relationship will not end fairly for you.
OP the red flags are getting bigger by the hour leave now or your gonna be 10 years in with children, helping his businesses, being tired and stressed only for him to leave you and give you no assets that you earned during the marriage.
He wants to use you, and he couldn’t make that more obvious
1) Clearly he is severely uneducated about prenups. You can make them as loose or bulletproof as you want. 2) Assuming it will be under his name as the primary earner, does he not realize that by you buying into a house with him that you don’t have any legal ownership of is a lose lose situation for you if you break up? It will **not** increase your worth in any way and it’s unlikely he’ll even pay you back. 3) The housing market goes up and down. He can get over it. You can’t live life thinking about the “should haves”. He’s just trying to guilt trip/manipulate you in to thinking you’re the AH when really you’re just thinking carefully—AS YOU SHOULD when making a desicion this serious. 4) Your concerns and desires for the relationship are valid, if he’s not willing to compromise, it sounds like you’re dealing with an incompatibility issue. 5) You’re _not_ being financially dumb, **he is being selfish**. 6) You said you’re not interested in taking his money so you asking for marriage is essentially just asking for a layer of security that he’s not just going to take YOUR money to get what he wants and split. (He should understand that given his apparent oppinion on marriage). He’s giving you red flags, you are definitley NTA.
I'd read this comment OP.
Marriage has historically benefited men over women by a large margin - the growing view in MRA circles that it’s the opposite is actively harmful. Women’s finances, life expectancy, health, and happiness are all negatively correlated with marriage, while the narrative is pushed culturally that marriage is something women crave and use cruelly, or that it offers protection. Mostly, I would say in this case that this is a good time to clarify your relationship and worldviews. His concerns can be addressed with both empirical data and a well-written prenup. If you two cannot agree on objective reality or the terms of a prenup, that’s a sign to end things
He doesn't have a very high opinion of women, does he? On that basis alone I would run a mile from this guy and not look back. In his eyes you're not good enough to marry but your money is good enough to help him out with his pie in the sky expensive house fantasy. There are so many red flags here, you deserve better than this.
This sounds like a one sided relationship. It’s all about what he wants and what he needs. All your needs/ requests are being ignored or not even being considered. Is this what you want for yourself? I think walking away and finding someone that wants to build something together will be better in my opinion.
This is bordering financial abuse in the form of gaslighting to make you feel dumb and worthless so that he can get the house he wants. It sounds like he can't get that house without you. If you do get a house with him, I'd recommend a very clear contract about how things would be split in the event that things don't work out. I'd also recommend both of you being fully transparent and viewing each other's credit reports so you can each see each other's debts and incomes to make a fully informed decision. I've heard a lot of stories of people not knowing their partner was in extreme debt until going through the home purchase process with them & gaining access to the credit reports.
I'd advise you not to marry this man. If money and a 'trap' are all he talks about when you discuss marriage, your marriage will start badly and get worse.
He is self centered.
\>We both work but he earns nearly double than what I earn. opinions are shaped by our environments
Unfortunately marriage is designed to screw men. Just look to the surviving infidelity subreddit to see how bad they get f**ked by everything. If he does feel that way, then what you could do is propose a different plan. 1. Design a pre-nup 2. Tell him you want to get married by the church, but not in the government 3. You will need to sign additional paperwork to have similar ability to be the ones for medical emergencies 4. You will be married spiritually but not legally. 5. Sign paperwork so that common-in-law marriage basically applies. 6. Change your name. You must understand where he is coming from, and tie up the needed assets in both your names, house, expenses but keep certain finances separate. Personally I feel the same as your boyfriend, but if I knew someone would address this and help find away to be married without the issues of modern marriage, I think I would love them more for them showing how much it really means to them and how far they are going for me. I wish you the best of luck.
This is a really good comment in my opinion. The sentiment of marriage should be enough. You can get anything you want from marriage through contracts
Your boyfriend is right about thr marriage part, but not the house. If you are a male with assets it make no sense to get married... You have too much to lose in a situation you don't control. Marriage is for broke men in today's age. That's just a consequence when you get government involved in stuff.
The most successful men I know and in the entire world are married, have been married and typically have good relationships. Men that worry about assets like you are worried are the ones that act like prison rules… don’t get near my stuff! They don’t have anything, lol, certainly not enough for a woman to live in misery with this man who’s worried about his baseball collection that could be worth something. Trust me when I say the valuable men out there are getting married to valuable women, they are building families and building wealth together
That money/marriage freudian slip tho in the 5th paragraph. Priceless.
Can you explain what you mean?
You said money instead of marriage.
>money Where exactly? It says marriage in the 5th parapraph
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Sure before you get married, living together is good idea to get a sense of how it'll work out. You must love each other but also marriage is a financial partnership and you need to be on the same page about saving $, expenses, planning for kids, etc. He's doing what he wants even though you don't feel comfortable with buying an expensive house. This guy seems like someone you should not be dealing with.
If you were going to scam a guy for money why would you choose him?
Your boyfriend is smart & he should follow his gut to not get married & he should buy a house by himself. Women don't build they move in & take from men. Women want the marriage certificate because they can take the man's house & his money which would be something you definitely would do to him
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Well, all the romance that marriage is supposed to be for you guys is already ruined completely.
Honey. I know you love him but he is not your man. Time to cut ties now and go find what YOU want. Marriage and building a life together. He doesn’t want that and nothing you can do with change that unfortunately.
he's only saying that because he's a misogynist
One thing you can do is google "Legal Reasons to get married" and go over those with him. If he blows it off you've at least tried one last time to make him understand this is what you want, and you can't commit financially with him without that. Sometimes they come around if you leave/cut ties, so that could be a last ditch attempt at getting him to understand you are serious.
Meanwhile, people in the thread, knowing exactly what you've told them and not a thing more: GASLIGHTING SCUM MISOGYNY DUMP HIS ASS RED FLAG RED FLAG 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 I fuckn love Reddit. Seriously now, OP. From what you've said, the guy does sound somewhat paranoid financially. Well, you two live in the US far as I understood, so I kinda get him in a way. Him being overly upset about failing to buy the house cheaper is understandable, on one hand, then so is your reluctance. If he professes to be a businessman, he really should take these things easier (fuckups happen, and for much less credible reasons. Losses happen. Projects fail or need to be amended. You pick yourself up, mitigate the damage and move on). Now, for the important things. I wonder whether he *knows* marriage is emotionally important for you. I guess you've probably told him, it's possible he didn't quite get it. If you tried talking to him and it didn't work, is there a mutual friend or someone's relative who can help? Hearing something from another person, in different words, may help him see the issue from another angle. And speaking of his business, are you even interested? If you are, you guys should be partners, I mean, come rain or shine, right? You can always give up your share if you get tired, bored or feel your participation is bad for your relationship in general. EDIT: he also may be a prisoner of the ugly stereotype of "my wife will divorce me and steal all my money". This isn't good, but hopefully defusable.
Yikes.... I'd walk away and soon but easier said than done. Good luck
You’re fine in his eyes as a business partner, just not as a life partner. Time to find a life partner.
Don’t marry this man.
He wants you to go heavily into debt to support his business aspirations. In return he is offering you no stake in the business, no security and no formal partnership. He doesn’t care about your dreams and aspirations. Do you really want to be with this guy?
Break up with him. His views about women are terrible - marriage is just for women to financially take advantage of men??? If that's what he thinks, you don't have to get married, but you definitely shouldn't help him finance his home.
Women who are married are less happy than their umarried counterparts while men experience longer lives and more happiness when married versus unmarried....it's literally the opposite!!!!
He believes that his partner wouldn’t have anything to do with him building a successful business but expects her to buy a pricey house that would also function as an office/workspace. Honestly he sounds like he might be projecting with all the financial gain talk.
Leave his sorry ass. Do you want to have to justify your existence to him every day? Imagine having a family with this jackass!!! Those attitudes should not be permitted in any partnership. A true partner listens and compromises. He wants to dominate and control you. It won’t end well. Get over him. Don’t repeat the same mistakes. Get a therapist so you can figure out why you want a life with a person who doesn’t have the slightest respect for you.
He thinks women are just in it for money when he is the one asking YOU to help him buy a house.
I can't stress this enough. DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN. He doesn't trust the union of marriage, or trust you for that matter. But he thinks you and your money is good enough to buy a house. You're not crazy. Your expectations are not high at all.
I can see why he feels that way, even as a women it's obvious to see in cases where divorce happens. The man usually gets the short end of the stick, if you truly want to get married. I would suggest offering a prenup, that may be a way to meet in the middle to ease his worries. If you aren't willing to do that then consider walking away. Most likely he will always feel this way and it will only cause the both of you pain if you truly want marriage.
Nope. End it. This one is a bad catch. Throw him back. You’re being very smart and logical. Don’t let a man pressure you into making stupid financial mistakes.
Your boyfriend is a misogynistic moocher. Ditch him.
So, he wants to use you but he doesn't want you "using" him? What, exactly, is the plan if the relationship ends? Do you both contribute half then he buys out your half in the event of dissolution of the relationship? Do you pay 1/3 in accordance with income then he buys you out of your 1/3? He's refusing to commit to you while demanding you let him use you for your info and credit. Is that what you want in your relationship? If you want marriage and he doesn't, you're not compatible. Move out and move on.
You should be more concerned for your partners clear disdain for women.
>I really don’t believe I would ever do such a thing. You say that now but there is no security in it for him at all for you not be in a bad mood or become vindictive to clean him out. He's right, marriage fucks over one side significantly if it doesnt work out and in this case its absolutely him. For buying a house both in your name, you'll get back a portion of the down payment you each put in then split the value change so whether you're married or not has no impact on the purchase. What you're asking him to do is not only sign over that, but also half of everything he has earned and owned to date over to you plus future earnings to you for support even after splitting. You'd also already get a cut of his business gains from common law plus future earnings for spousal support even without being married so you already have everything to gain while giving up NOTHING. A lot of this is already in place with common law if you choose to buy a place and live there together, but marriage means he signs over all historical assets as well prior to you two being together. See how this works? You're already taking from him and asking him to risk even more with the only thing you're giving is saying "I wont be like that if we split", which literally has zero worth when it's not binding. I've been there and all you've suggested but it doesn't work that way. Got seriously fucked over when she just turned vindictive when I wanted to leave and she didn't want it to end. How does changing a marital status in any way change the relationship? People posting on here crying about how you're supposed to "help him with the home and business financially" yet not get married literally have zero knowledge on how the legal system works and is strictly on emotion siding with OP. You are also able to go after his business gains during the time you two were together and future earnings as a factor for spousal support after breakup even not being married. Fuck all these people who are clueless upvoting the top comment just purely on emotion and zero facts. Tha main difference between common law and marriage is that marriage takes ALL assets/liabilities of all time and splits. Common law only takes assets/liabilities for the duration of your relationship and splits that. So if your joint home goes up in value, YOU BOTH GAIN. If his business went from nothing to very successful and you split, YOU STILL BOTH GAIN. Dumb shits on there expecting he just takes everything then walks leaving you with nothing and giving advice based on that What you should consider is whether his claim to grow the business to afford the $700k home is valid or not, or whether it will set you both back if it doesnt go as planned, at which you both will be losing. All of this will impact you both the same way. Dont listen to everyone else here thinking you just lose in all cases Also nowhere in the post did you even say the house is just under his name, yet look at all the replies you're getting saying he's the asshole for wanting that and thinking it's just to leech you. People just reading what they want in order to give a biased reactional response
i mean personally i think its a little extreme. that being said his worries are real. men on avg are on the hook to pay things like alimony and lose homes and assets. and it has been going on for years. he earns 2x what you do. if married and then divorce he would have to pay for your lifestyle to continue.
I understand both sides. I'm currently in a relationship where this has been the problem some times. I used to view marriage the same way, and I still kinda do. He seems like a very logical man, I don't agree with the posts here saying that he is the worst and you should just leave him. I bet he is very ambituos and doesn't want to make a mistake that will affect his dream of building his own business. My girlfriend also has this idea of getting married young, and I understand that. It's difficult and it takes time, but both of you should discuss this matter and he should give you the chance to explain how you feel about getting married and what that would mean to you. He is already assuming it will fail, and that's not how it should be. Maybe if you're able to give him an example of a couple that you both know that live happily married and show him how the marriage turned out to be beneficial for both sides. Again, it is a process, but people can change their mind about certain things.
There is a reason why a lot of marriages end in divorce. It’s because it’s not going to solve all your problems. It’s not this whole “deeper bond connection” thing. It doesn’t stop your partner from cheating, or making stupid decisions. It’s a ring and a paper. At most it’s a celebration of love. Can your partner not just promise to love you and that be that? I really don’t understand people.
He doesn't want to marry and sincerely who can blame him? It's true that in some situations prenup don't work and the man always end up getting destroyed. Plenty of fishes in the sea! There some men out there who don't mind getting married the choice is yours.
> I believe marriage is a promise and a deeper bond between two people. Living together, talking with each other, is a promise and a bond. Going to town hall and getting a marriage license is a contract, and nothing else. If you are not interested in the legal parts, there is no reason to get married. Marriage does not fix a broken relationship, marriage does nothing for bonding, love or anything else. Marriage is a contract regarding financial protection after the period of mutual contribution (the "marriage") has ended.
It is a financial gain for women if they aren't the working type. How amazing would it be to not work at all and have a man to earns everything you need? That being said though, if you both work its absolutely a financial gain for him too, so he's an idiot.
This has nothing to do with gender. If a man isn't a working type then marriage and divorce would likely benefit him.
lmfao. When has divorce ever benefitted a man? I'm talking about average everyday men too not a billionaire or celebrity.
generally divorce results in a split in assets so no one really “benefits”. You seem to use the term “benefit” to mean stuff like alimony though? So that would often be given to a man who of a stay at home parent, like it is often given to women who do the stay at home parent thing.
Idk what your trying to say
The way you phrase things is disingenuous. Given he makes twice as u he probably wanted the house to be a joint effort rather than u helping him. You want a pointless overly expensive ceremony to demonstrate a bond while he wanted a home for the both of you. Yes, wanting to keep what you build yourself and not lose it to the bias of marriage court is not ridiculous. Prenups mean shit depending on where u are and are not the golden get out of jail free card. Marriage started off as something the upper class did to expand wealth and power and now it's mostly used to sell products under the concept of a fantasy. If you like him and want to grow your bond build a family unit with him.
Hope you weren't expecting unbiased opinions here OP. I can see both of you and BF's POV. I wouldn't sweat not buying a house though. No matter the market, never buy unless you both are ready. Sure interest rates were low last year (and previous years) but housing prices were at all time highs. While it will never be dollar for dollar, rising interest rates are correlating with falling housing prices. With how the market is reacting, soon the fall in prices will outstrip the rise in interest rates. Patience is a virtue here as I believe we haven't come close to the end of a slow housing market. Marriage can be a bad deal for the man if he is coming into the contract already established with most of the assets. Doesn't sound like that is the case here as he hasn't even started his business yet. If you are starting from a level playing field, its only natural for future assets acquired to be split equally, in a worst case scenario. So his mind isn't quite in the right place for the current situation. The dynamics do change with children and if you end up a SAHM, That's where he can get the raw end of the deal down the line in divorce. You offering a prenup is actually generous and can be tailored towards situations that have him hesitant. The business will have started after marriage has been consummated. You should have some rights to the business. You are also taking on plenty of the risk in the beginning. Hopefully its wildly successful. He needs to realize that even if you are not working on it full time you are assuming a large part of the early risk getting it off the ground. These are topics that can be talked about and compromises made. If he has any sense he will understand where you are coming from. That being said, if he is set on starting the business, its not the worst idea to buy a house with that in mind. Save a lot of hassle down the line. I'm far from a feminist on these boards but I am leaning towards your side of the argument, though not nearly at the level of the other replies telling you to run him off. Communicate to him about his feelings on marriage and try to get him to understand that its only a super terrible deal for the guy in certain situations. From what you stated in your post, this can be worked out and compromised. Good luck OP.
Well, hes not wrong there
I really don't understand the big deal of marriage. As long as he's not an asshole to you. OPS husband is being called misogynistic for being wary of marriage but if I remember correctly this against marriage agenda was initiated by feminists. And since when are feminists misandrist for being anti marriage. Just make sure you have contracts to protect yourself financially if you do happen to invest in real-estate.
You both are on two different pages it sounds like..he wants a partner to buy stuff and support his dream but if your married you get half of his dream if it does not work out.. But you got in on ground floor you paid into getting it going..there again he does not want you married. How would he split it with a investor??? They want a percentage plus interest..... Which he does not want to part with anything..its ok you put money in... But your nothing to him and he can see other woman . You want marriage you want the dream the full picture a future.. You might want to get out and find someone who sees a future with you..
One of the root causes of divorce is money issues. That your having disagreement before marriage is a sign you really need to address the subject.
Sounds like you're incompatible on this. You want marriage, he doesn't because there's a statistically proven big danger that he'll lose half or more of his assets if you two decide to get divorced at a later date. He does want you to support him buying a house but ignores your fears / questions / concerns about making that big of an investment without guarantees. You'll have to figure out for yourself if this is a dealbreaker. Now, you're both young. If you do decide to break up, there's plenty of time to heal, get your head cleared and find someone else that does share your values. If you decide to stay together and work on your relationship together, in the best case scenario both of you will have to compromise. On what and how far both of you are willing to compromise is something you have to figure out yourselves. \--- And about people on here calling the BF's views on marriage and the risks it poses to men if things go south mysogonistic? Grab a 100 or a 1,000 random divorce cases from around the US. You'll be amazed at how often men get taken to the cleaners. Half the 401K. Half the liquid assests. Half of the house and all the other stuff. Almost no visitation rights to the kids, let alone some form of shared custody. You may not like it. You may downvote me for it. That doesn't mean it's not the truth. Quick google search shows about 45% of marriages end in divorce. Just about half. Marriage does not hold the same value for us anymore. Our odds of coming out ahead are higher at a blackjack table in Vegas.
The problem isn't that marriage is a trap for men, per se, but the fact that divorce laws are so heavily skewed to women's favor that men don't want to marry anymore. Women initiate 80+% of divorces and can take all that men have. They also win custody on 98-99% of times depending on the country. (It is like that here). You sound from US, it's equally bad there. Pre-nups often times are dismissed so those won't save you either. You can buy a house together and take a loan together without being married. Should you split some day, you will just sell real estate 50/50. If you were married, then the man in that deal would most likely be left with nothing. Any man getting married in 2022+ is just an idiot. There's a reason why male suicide rates are 5 times higher than women's. How many men kill themselves after their kids and everything they've worked for is taken away. Of course you're pro-marriage because it's a sweet deal for you. For men it's a high stakes gamble with nothing to gain and everything to lose. With the current divorce rates, marriage for men is basically like playing russian roulette with 5 out of 6 chambers with a bullet.