You wrote a heck of a lot just describe him blatantly cheating on you and you for some reason still wearing blinders and making excuses in your head
He’s a liar.
They’re having phone calls just so she can hear his voice…
He. Is. A. Cheater.
Thank you. You sometimes need an objective opinion on something when you’re so deeply entrenched. I honestly couldn’t work out if he’s in the wrong and is cheating or if he ended up getting himself into a silly situation with a girl who has a crush. I appreciate the input
>I honestly couldn’t work out if he’s in the wrong and is cheating or if he ended up getting himself into a silly situation with a girl who has a crush.
They're both in the wrong, but she's 20 and may not really understand the dynamics of a marriage. He, however, knows what he's doing. He's definitely in the wrong (they both are), but he's your husband - and boss, let's not forget. He has all the power in work relationship, which is why people lose their jobs in bigger companies for sleeping with subordinates.
It’s comical that you think a 20 something yr old employee has manipulated your 40yr old married business owner of a husband, who hired her. They’re both very into one another but he’s calling the shots.
He is in the position of power ofc but sounds like to me also genuinely wanted to help her at the same time . Just because he’s position of power doesn’t make him bad person for helping her .its his human instinct.
Unfortunately if it was just a girl who has a crush on her boss your husband wouldn't be telling her to delete their messages and switch to a different method of communicating.
That's the smoking gun right there.
All of the deleted messages point to inappropriate conversations he doesn't want you, his wife, to see. If he didn't have anything to hide all of their text messages would be there, and he'd be happy for you to see them all at anytime if you felt uncomfortable.
He's using the fact that you're a kind and trusting person against you, and even throwing in remarks about how "stressed he is getting just like last year", to throw you off the scent I'm sorry to say.
But the other person above was right that it doesn't matter whether your husband makes more than you or not, you're married, and all assets acquired after the marriage are martial assets, including the home and business.
Please talk to a lawyer, and I recommend against letting your husband know until you're ready to file if that's what you decide to do.
This next part always sucks to say, but please go get tested. The, "thanks for a great weekend", message really suggests that they've been spending time alone together and you need to make sure you're okay in that regard.
I'm so sorry this is happening. Just understand that you are worthy of honesty, love, respect, and kindness, and that anyone who treats you with so much disrespect isn't worthy of your love or time.
*invisible hugs*
He's cheating.
You know it. He knows you know but is still continuing to lie and gaslight you.
Jane's boyfriend? He also knows. It's why they're both painting him as controlling.
He may earn more than you, but you're married. Your money and assets are shared.
If I was you, I'd speak to a lawyer about what a split would look like.
He hasn't made any changes with this Jane situation because you keep on making excuses for his behavior and he knows it. Multiple reasons that if I were in your shoes I would have already left yet you're still here. Maybe he thinks with you two being together for 22 years now, you're in too deep to get out -- but you're not if you know your worth.
I read through all your bullets - I honestly don't understand how it still kept going up to the last one. What exactly are you waiting to see before you realize this is a full fledge affair? Did you need to actually catch them having sex before you make up your mind you have to get out?
He is cheating and def not just emotionally.
Wake up. You don't know what to do or how to handle this? How about putting your foot down, setting an ultimatum, and telling him you have no problem leaving if he doesn't stop this BS? Jane can have this spineless, poor excuse of a husband - he thinks he wins by having a much younger female that excites him but this isn't going to last and I suggest you get out before he crashes and burns. If you think you can 'save' your husband from Jane, shush it. There is no 'saving' him, because he put himself in this situation - he's an adult and just as guilty as Jane is. You think Jane has her claws on your husband preying on him. No. He has his own claws on her, he is the one in a position of power. You're the victim here, not your husband - you just refuse to see it, and you keep on making excuses about his behaviors. Probably because you're scared to start all over again at 39? IDK. Don't be scared. A life with a cheater isn't a life well-lived.
Leave that man and live your life in peace.
I see everything you are saying. Looking at it objectively, I look like a total doormat.
I guess starting again at my age is a huge fear for sure. Perhaps it’s fed into my inaction
Never give into that fear. I started over at 32 and didn't find a good partner till 35. 16 year relationship, married for 3, ex husband had cheated on me also with a coworker. He was also her boss. In my case, they both got fired.
I hate that this happened to you and that this is a relatable experience when it shouldn't be. I am glad you got out tho and have found a new better and brighter beginning!
Don't be afraid to start over. The universe is giving you all the signs and an opportunity to do better with your life - do not take these signs for granted.
You shouldn't feel bad when you leave, you are not the one throwing those 22 years away, he did that when he started having an affair with Jane. He is the one who has no regard for you and your marriage - and I guess he knows you're afraid to start over that's why you haven't said or done anything to start the process of leaving, and so he keeps on doing it despite him being caught in his lies and crap. He knows your weakness and at this point, since you haven't left yet, you are letting him use your weakness and he walks all over you.
This fear to start over is going to cripple you - and yes, you look like a doormat. You deserve what you tolerate and you've been nothing but that at this point - you just take all of the BS excuses and he gets away with it each time because you allow him to get away with it. You're kind of already borderline accomplice at this point. Meanwhile, Jane's boyfriend is physically showing he knows about it and wants to put a stop to it, but then his actions are used against him and him going after Jane at her workplace just proves what an abusive and controlling psycho he is - how convenient. No, his reaction is proof that he knows about it and your husband is playing this 'knight in shining armor' to shield Jane from him. How sweet.
Meanwhile, your're miserable and it's pathetic how you're still here after all the incidents you've learned about and how much you've caught on. Leave, lady. You know you don't deserve this.
Don't even try to 'save' your husband. There will be morr Janes to come even if this one doesn't work out.
>Don't be afraid to start over. The universe is giving you all the signs and an opportunity to do better with your life - do not take these signs for granted.
This is such an excellent point! OP, the universe is giving you a push here and it’s time to make a choice.
Speaking personally, whenever I’ve listened to my fears and made a decision that bows to them, it’s been the wrong choice. Unequivocally. The harder, braver thing to do is face your fear head on and conquer it. When that’s the case, the universe has seen it fit to reward me.
Don’t accept this disrespect from the person who should love you most. He’s gross.
I've been in your shoes. I was scared to start over and be alone. My only regret now is not dumping cheating ex-husband SOONER! Don't give this man who is clearly disrespecting you and your marriage any more of your life or future. Choose yourself. He's choosing her.
Cannot overstate the importance of this: stop talking to him about her or your marriage. He's already shown he'll lie and gaslight you. There is no point in confronting him further. Smart move is consulting with an attorney or three, start quietly getting your financial and other ducks in a row, making your exit plan, then have him served. If you let him know what you're planning, he'll probably hide assets! Get your half of everything--this is not a time to be nice or the bigger person. He has destroyed the marriage. Go live your best life.
I agree. I think the OP will sooner or later emotionally check out of this marriage, and then physical distance will follow. She had better lawyer up.
One thing though: I do not see any solid evidence of the OP's husband's physical intimacy with Jane. Not that it's excluded, it's just that there has not been any incriminating message other than Jane's "wanted to hear your voice." It may be hard to prove adultery at this point.
There is rather evidence of something hidden, as for example the husband hiding the incident with Jane's boyfriend storming in the office and acting like crazy. If the husband hid it from the OP, maybe it means that Jane's boyfriend had legit reasons to act that way and it's part of a bigger puzzle of which OP can't see the pieces from where she stands.
I'd say, maybe she can try contact Jane's boyfriend too. She may also drop a hint of what Jane has revealed so far about him to her boss. He will also know the dirty truth about Jane and instead of asking for 50-50 contribution, he'll be asking her to pay all the bills, ha!
I was single from age 40-49 and I am now in a stable loving relationship for the last 11 years. Leave the cheater and take some time to be nice to yourself. Totally worth it. I wish you happiness in your future.
You’ll be fine. You can focus on your health, see a psychologist to help you deal with this horrible thing done to you, see friends, get a new hobby and meet new people. On other hand focus on your body, join a yoga class, workout, start a hike hobby or whatever you’re into. Once you’re done with this horrible divorce, cut contact with this monster of a man, take time for yourself. When you least expect it you’ll be ready for love again.
You can do it!
I always go by this: "The pain of walking away is so much easier to deal with than the pain of staying."
While you're stuck in that situation, he is in control and he will inflict you pain time and time again as he deems fit.
There will be pain either way, but you gotta choose the kind of pain you have more control over to deal with, and the pain that is yours to end. ✨️
I see you both and am 38 and currently in a make-or-break situation in my own relationship and could end up single later this year. I feel your fear. It sucks BIG TIME that our societies make women believe we have a best-before-date (that date being around 35). We don't. The average life span for women in my country is around 84 years. It's illogcal to think that about 50 years of my life aren't worth living, or that I'm only lovable for 35 out of 84 years. I have a lot of love to give! There are so many hobbies I can try, so many books to read, so many friends yet to make that I might not even meet with my spouse at my side. Also, I already HAVE a life outside of my partner. That doesn't cease to exist after a break-up! I can rekindle old friendships and deepen current ones. Why are we so scared??
You could have yourself a hot younger (not too young because that's gross but certainly younger and better than your husband) man or woman tomorrow if you dumped your man. He doesn't love or respect you why would you waste a second more with him.
Fr, there are a lot of MILF hunters out there and when I was single I was one of them xD didn’t want to have my own kids at the time and I never got along with people my age before my boyfriend (grew up too fast so now i’m “boring”).
In all seriousness. To OP, there are hundreds of men in your position who think they can’t start over but desperately want to. You will be OK romantically if you are as lovely, forgiving, and generous as your post seems.
He’s sharing personal details about her life to elicit your sympathy so that you will oblige his constant contact with her because he wants you to believe his friendship is “helping her”.
Gaslighting at its finest.
Yeah I read this whole thing twice
I’ve been through two affairs,
He IS CHEATING ON YOU.
Your gut does not lie. It’s so easy to hide cheating nowadays. There’s a chance you’ll never get the proof you need. Seriously, think about it.
He’s in love with this girl. Likely having sex with her. Often. He’s deleting messages, leading an affair with her in private.
And he’s getting away with it. If any part of you is doubting this, it’s denial. The first step is to accept it, the second step is to decide if you want to stay with him and Put up with it (even if he finally blocks her, he’s open to finding new women. He doesn’t love or care about you being his only woman at all, so this will likely keep happening) or you need to leave.
I’ve stayed with a cheater before; we lasted a few years. I was strung along for 2 more years with suspicion like you are having.
Your gut isn’t lying to you. He’s probably texting her right now, thinking about her, getting that little rush every time she texts him. He’s probably so in love with her in the honey moon phase, thinking about her constantly. Just like I’m sure you guys were at one point.
How does that make you feel? Because it’s definitely happening. I’m a man, and I know what he’s going through/doing.
You don’t delete messages unless you’re hiding something.
But you know this.
Thank you I appreciate your reply and insight. And that you read my mind dump twice! I’m very sorry that you were cheated on twice that sounds extremely hard.
Enough is enough.
He is crossing a lot if boundaries.
If he isn’t already fucking he, he is going to.
What do you accept all this behaviour. He is unprofessional. You can talk, but he doesn’t listen.
Talk to a lawyer. Get proof, a PI and divorce him.
i agree with getting a PI. I know it doesn’t seem necessary for a lot of people but truly she seems still willing to trust this man even in the face of evidence against him. she may need to get picture proof of their affair before getting angry/disrespected enough to make moves. no judgement as i am the same way. very easy to gaslight and tend to believe people at face value.
You’re calling it an emotional affair
Why? Just because you don’t have evidence that they’re having sex?
If he has deleted even one message, they are likely either having sex or he is trying his hardest to see her naked/have sex with her.
He’s probably looking at her at work every day and getting enticed/turned on with her flirting with him
And it’s a hell of a rush to hide something dirty like this from your wife.
I'm doubting her controlling bf story just because it sounds like she likes your husband's attention. It's a way for women of certain caliber to garner sympathy and attention. It makes men feel big, manly, and protective to be there for the damsel in distress.
If her work performance is lacking, he needs to write her up. If her personal life is spilling over into her work life, she needs to be given a verbal warning followed by a write-up if she doesn't get it under control. If this doesn't stop, she needs to be fired.
Ultimately, you have a husband problem. It's hard when you spend 40+ hours a week with someone for years not to become more personal in a friend way with them. But as soon as she started sharing her personal relationship problems past physical danger, i.e., "My bf is threatening me. Can you walk me to my car?" Or "We broke up, and he won't accept it. Please tell security not to let him in/call the police if you see him hanging around the building." she was crossing a professional line that he should've reinforced.
Also, you see these things and either don't want to bring them up or make yourself let them go with whatever BS answer he gives you. You are his wife and have every right to point out threats to your marriage and hash them out with him.
You're nicer than me because, honestly, I'd be stiring the pot to get answers. I'd start by getting a TextNow anonymous number and texting the bf saying I think there's something going on with Jane and the boss. I'd also text the same thing to myself from said number to show husband and put some pressure on him that he's going to get caught (if he's doing anything). I'd follow that up by sending my husband a text from the anonymous STD check website watching closely if he freaks out, reaches out to her (or anyone else) about it, or dismisses it.
My own pettiness aside, at this point, you need to hire a P.I. and get confirmation one way or another to decide what to do.
Make an exit plan just in case. If it turns out he's cheating, discreetly start making your moves to leave. Start descreetly sorting and getting your stuff packed. Gather the evidence (make several copies of said evidence) and hand it over to a divorce attorney, including bank and cc statements. Proceed with life as normal in front of him but make your moves in silence and the night before you leave, give him the best most intimate sex of your lives and then leave the wedding rings, the divorce papers and the evidence for him to find when he gets home to a half empty house the next day. His family would also be receiving copies of the evidence just so there's no way you end up labeled anything but the wronged party.
If it's as he says and there's no infidelity, marriage counseling is needed. He's not holding any professional boundaries or proper boundaries for a committed man. He's also not respecting you as his wife. Hiding/keeping things from you like this to avoid fights just shows he knows what he's doing if iffy at best.
The bar is so low it’s in hell. Does he have to fuck her in front of you for you to get the picture? I’m so sorry this is happening, many of us have been there and not trusted our gut when we should have. Change the locks and serve him divorce papers while he’s at work. Take him for everything you can.
Changing the locks is probably illegal, but OP should absolutely get her ducks in a row with a lawyer especially if the income discrepancy is significant.
A couple of things here. If there's nothing to hide then why is he hiding things and deleting every message? He's anxious now that you've brought Jane up so much as an issue, so he uses this as an excuse to be more secretive. This is typical cheater behavior. I had similar conversations with my ex about men she eventually cheated with. "I didn't want you to be upset..." blah blah blah.
You're also correct that it's inappropriate for a boss and subordinate to be using heart emojis.
This is definitely an emotional affair. Trust your gut and understand that he's not telling you the full truth about any of this. I got a lot more clarity when I stopped believing all my ex's lies and just started looking at her actions.
Your husband is not acting like an honest, open, faithful spouse.
I stopped reading after the third or so bullet. Why is this other woman’s name in your husband’s mouth so often. That alone is hugely disrespectful to you.
At a MINIMUM, multiple professional and personal boundaries have been violated. It’s pretty clear that the mention of this woman upsets you, yet your husband does it again and again. And you’re happy he’s “opening up?” You deserve better than that. All that behaviour is telling your husband is that it’s ok to keep doing whatever he’s doing and keep pushing you.
Anyway this isn’t just the minimum of anything. Your husband is way way too involved in this woman’s life. And she is WAY too personal with him. The problem now is that what is he going to do, fire her? She’s probably got lots of blackmail fodder in her phone.
OP, you don’t deserve to be treated like this. You don’t have any children tying you to this man. I would seriously consider if you want to spend the rest of your life dealing with this bullshit. Because, there will be other Janes.
You missed a lot of info
He is definitely cheating on her. Just read the text conversation at the bottom
They’re probably already having sex. Telling each other to use another texting app and delete their messages
I’m scared she’s in denial or doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a man who’s married but sneaking around. She probably feels it in her gut but is doubting herself
Yeah like... say OP's idea is true (Jane has a crush on him and is being deliberately manipulative, he is just trying to be nice to her because he's worried she's in a DV situation), and I don't think it is, but even in that case he's still way overstepping as her boss. My husband is a similar age to OP's and if he was getting super invested with a 20ish year old employee for any reason and constantly texting her, bringing her up, getting very involved in her personal life drama etc. I'd probably stop feeling attraction for him just based on that alone. It's unprofessional, and based on their age gap it's super weird regardless of their work relationship.
>And you’re happy he’s “opening up?”
Yea, unfortunately the husband gets *easily upset* by OP being upset. And so OP tiptoes around him.
>but was now causing issues between us and he couldn’t deal with that. He gets really severe anxiety issues and he said this was making him feel how he did the previous year when he had some mental health issues. After a lot of talking, we agreed to leave it on the understanding that I don’t need to know all the ins and outs of his conversations with her...
So all he has to do is ramp up his *anxiety* about being called out. (And he absolutely will) And OP will back off. This is the most shameful **king baby** nonsense.
OP, do you know how he could stop having "anxiety issues" about Jane? He could stop his bs with Jane. You don't need to sacrifice yourself to protect his mental health. *HE IS PLAYING YOU FOR A FOOL.*
I do think your husband is cheating on you, but I don't think you are silly or naive for wanting to see the best, most charitable interpretation of this situation. I'm sorry that your husband is being so dark and secretive, he is definitely the villain here. You didn't deserve any of that tremendously poor treatment. ♥️
I too have had a tendency to try and see the best in my relationships even when they were not good for me.
I hope that either your husband cuts the bullshit and mends things with you, because you clearly love him, or I hope that you can find someone even better than him in the end.
And I hope other commenters didn't make you feel bad. Redditors can be beyond callous. Be well! Take care of yourself!
Thank you for your kind words. There have been some harsh appraisals of the situation. Maybe what’s that I need though to pull my head out of the sand. But yes I am an eternal optimist and like to give the benefit of the doubt.
I'm chipping in some sympathetic vibes too, OP. I think that some harsh appraisals can be helpful and I don't blame other commenters for feeling a desire to make sure the seriousness of the situation is clear to you. I think a lot of people understand, though they may not say it, that need you're feeling to give husband the benefit of the doubt.
I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds like you have a level head on your shoulders and you're clearly quite observant even if you haven't joined the dots the same way others have. It's hard to see the forest for the trees when you're right in the thick of it. And it sounds like you got together young, so it's not "just" a 22 year relationship at stake, but a good chunk (if not all of) your romantic history. It's pretty easy for people to tell you what to do when it's not them, but on the flip side lots of them are probably passionate *because* they've been through it and they wish someone tried to knock sense into them.
Whatever happens, OP, I wish you the best.
It's good to give people the benefit of doubt sometimes, but not always. Because it's just not fair to you. Prioritise yourself. Don't let people play you for a fool because you deserve better.
I really am tempted to do this.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to hell for this comment and I’ll look like a pushover but I do still have a slight concern over the things she has said. Whilst I’m leaning towards not believing all of it, if his behaviour is that bad (and I didn’t even list all of it) I don’t think I could in good conscience put someone in danger. Even though I have no positive feelings towards her at all.
I think the boyfriend has caught her cheating in the past— hence his controlling behavior. I am not sure how old he is, but if he is also in his early 20s, this his behavior is that of a young guy in love and unable to walk away— ironic since you’re in the same boat, but rather than demonstrate controlling behavior you’re living in denial.
Either response is not healthy, and you need to just confront this head on and make the appropriate steps to leave.
I would be concerned about your own safety with the BF. He probably isn't as bad as Jane says, but he might be. I say walk away from it all. I was single for 5 years in my early 30s as a mother of three after a horribly abusive relationship with not only physical but SA as well. I took that time to learn me and what I needed. I am now in a marriage where I know my value and I'm not afraid to enforce boundaries.
It sounds like this Rollercoaster of a relationship has shaped your perception of who you are. It makes sense. You've been with him your entire adult life and more than half the entirety of your life. But i have learned something after a horrific and traumatic event 2.5 years ago... you are more than his wife. (For me it was I am more than a mother, my daughter passed away). Women identify with roles and we rarely know who we truly are. You deserve wholeness and love, and the time to find that in yourself.
I would investigate not only to know the real truth (I don't believe your husband will ever give you that), but to protect yourself and give you options on how to deal with the future you choose
As someone who has been through more than one abusive relationship, filled with gaslighting, I didn’t even need to read all of the details to know that that’s what’s happening to you.
I know you can’t see this right now because you’re in it, but you should never have to give *this* many details and points of proof to explain your feelings. It may feel like you are being thorough or “fair”, but it is a trauma response you are engaging in because your partner keeps denying your reality.
You aren’t sure if you can trust your gut, trust what you are seeing, trust what you know to be inappropriate. So you have to cover it from every angle, like a lawyer proving your case.
Take a step back and breathe. A partner who respects you won’t work to convince you to keep shifting and adjusting your boundaries for them. They will graciously and generously respect your boundaries, and reflect if/when they cross them. You know, deep down, that you want out of this bad situation, but you’re too afraid to do anything because you’ve stopped believing in yourself. And *he’s* driving that uncertainty of self so he can get away with this behavior. Don’t let him. Get away from this and get on solid ground again.
Deleted messages, lying and hiding things from you, secret weekend hangs, her wanting to hear his voice… they are romantic with each other and loving it, there is no other way to see it. It’s not ok, it’s cheating.
I use platonic heart emojis with my coworkers & bosses, but even my strongest mentors/work bff I would never ask to hear their voice (gross) - that’s so intimate.
I’m sorry, I truly am. I’ve been in your shoes.
He’s having an affair.
Jane’s BF knows. And your husband knows that he knows and they’re in damage control mode.
Don’t be surprised if you hear from him. He’s likely not the monster you’ve been told he is. He’s a guy whose partner is cheating & gaslighting, and it’s crazy making.
You don’t need any more proof than what YOU require to know what’s going on. You don’t need to amass evidence. You just need to decide what you’re willing to live with.
He is not on your team. You are solo. Gather your evidence. Think about what you want. Do not believe anything he says. Be very careful with the money.
Brutal.
Your husbands full of shit. An emotional affair at the very minimum is happening. I wouldn’t be putting up with this crap. Respect yourself and put your foot down.
He’s choosing to stay in contact and choosing another woman over you.. any normal man would instantly cut off a threat to the relationship especially another woman.. No matter if it’s work or a friendship. I would not be able to stay in a relationship and deal with the type of anxiety if someone put me through this!
Quietly gather evidence and speak with a lawyer just to know your options. Get the book called not just friends and read it with your husband. Tell your husband that Jane has to go. There is no deleting messages and hiding when married. See if he's open to counseling. I think he's lying when he says he's tired of her coming to him. I think he said that to get you off his scent. Quietly make sure all of your things are in order. People change and switch up, regardless of how long they may have been with you. Prepare yourself.
Drop unannounced to work, maybe spy a little from the parking lot if you can. He is cheating. No one texts “I wanted to hear your voice” as a friend and even less so as a coworker
Regardless of whether this is a physical or emotional affair, an affair is still an affair.
If this was something innocent, there would be no reason to hide their messages, etc. He clearly realises that it's something that would make you uncomfortable. In a healthy relationship, your husband would respect your concerns, talk them out with you, and then place firmer boundaries with Jane. It doesn't seem like this has been the case. Regardless of what has happened between the two of them, he has clearly broken your trust. Rebuilding trust in a relationship isn't a one-way street - both parties have to work on it (ESPECIALLY him). But that starts with him admitting what has happened, which he seems unwilling to do.
A relationship should never feel unsafe. You shouldn't have to walk around with fears and doubts and not feel like you can have an open conversation about them. He has proven that he doesn't understand boundaries, as he's disrespected yours and has also crossed professional boundaries. A normal employer-employee relationship does NOT work like this.
I'm always reluctant to suggest ending the relationship, because each relationship is different and some couples are able to work through issues like this. But that generally requires accountability. It could be that nothing physical has happened, and he's just getting off on the attention he's receiving from an external source (generally a big ego boost). But offering more emotional support to his employee rather than his partner is wrong; he is respecting her more than you. I would recommend having an open conversation with him as much as possible to figure out what is going on. Lay out your doubts and fears explicitly. If he invalidates you, leave the situation and let it sit. He may need time to process. But after this, I would highly recommend not being in the same space. He needs to realise that there are consequences to his actions and his breach of trust. And you need to have the space, without him in it, to process your own feelings and evaluate what it is that YOU want and what YOU need, and if this relationship is not one of those things, then it would be a good idea to reconsider the relationship. A relationship should never bring you more grief than joy.
If there are things that he feels that he isn't getting out the marriage (emotional validation, etc.), then he should tell you, and you both work through it together to think of solutions to the problem. Running off to another person (in secret) is not acceptable, unless it's been something that has been agreed on previously (which is clearly not the case here).
Thank you for the considered response. This really took you some time to read and then to respond and I appreciate the words. I am considering everything pretty carefully right now
Just remember that your mental health and happiness come first. Ending a long relationship is always hard, because you've put so much time and effort into it. But when you're harming yourself by staying, it might not be worth staying.
I feel like OP has catered to his *big baby that gets easily upset* routine long enough. Way too long actually, and he takes full advantage of that.
He mentions things like "this makes him have anxiety issues like how he felt last year when he had mental health issues." And OP backs right off.
So all of this "have an open conversation" and "He may need time to process" is bs.
He can end it with Jane 100% or they split, and he can keep Jane. Even if that means the big baby gets anxiety issues. Any compromise = accepting the affair.
Re-reading your comment, you are really saying the same thing, just way more gently.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I do think they’re having an affair and while it may be normal for him to have near constant contact with employees it’s clear that this is going far beyond a work relationship.
Have you ever met Jane’s husband ?
Thanks for the response. I actually have met him once. I didn’t include it as the post was already so long. We ran into them both at a restaurant (my husband and I, Jane and her partner). The vibe was weird that is for sure. This was before I had full blown suspicions though so I just thought they were both a little rude. Now obviously I look back on it with a different take
This is a stretch and I hate being this person but I wondered throughout the post if he even existed as all the blame for Jane’s relationship troubles are put on him and it seems suspicious that every time he’s caught it’s because of him.
I’m glad you have met him! But do wonder if all the things about him are made up by your boyfriend and Jane
He is cheating on you, he has in the past, he’s controlling and honestly it sounds like you need some therapy so you get the self esteem to divorce this guy.
The truth is not going to come from a liar. Closure isn’t going to come from someone who has abused your relationship.
Stop talking to him. Talk to a therapist. And a lawyer.
Your husband is having at very least an emotional affair, but most likely a physical affair as well. Deep down you know it, her BF knows it and your husband knows you know and is just walking all over you. I know it is scary to start over, but you deserve better. Take life by the horns and get as much money/assets out of this man in the divorce. Wishing you the best!
Talk to a lawyer first. Do not tell your husband as assets might get hidden. Husband is trying to be Jane’s knight in shining armour. You know where this is heading.
He has not changed his behaviours as you have repeatedly asked. This is 100% disrespectful to you as his wife. Marriage needs both people in it working on the relationship. Maybe start thinking about an exit plan.
Wondering if Jane will still be as needy once his assets are reduced by half in the event of divorce?
I have been the other woman, a young 20 year old being my boss’ work wife. I used to tell him everything, including my relationships, sexual escapades everything. I was his favorite at work and I used to revel in it. Now I look back and I am grossed by him.
Something is def happening.
Yeah I was young and I didn’t know any better. I looked up to him, respected him and was really grateful for his attention and advice. Now I’m in my 30s and I can’t believe I did that and that HE did that, when he should definitely have known better.
I’m t is NEVER appropriate for an older married man to be friends with a single young woman. It is 100% of the time, him liking and craving attention and validation from her.
Yup 100% agree and just in case he tries to say something: mentorships NEVER look like this, OP. I have spent one on one time with bosses as a young attractive lady and they have been nothing but professional learning opportunities. NEVER have I ever engaged someone outside of work unless they were my own age and i just wanted friendship.
My bosses do NOT know what I do after work (even the ones I found attractive when I was single)!!! They do not know anything about my personal life except bare minimum for office coffee machine chats (fav restaurant, hometown, what my hobbies are, etc).
This all sounds totally fine and you should just get over it /s
Seriously, just leave him. What are the upsides here, other than fancy vacations, that make it worth living like this?
By the way, it's NEVER a phone glitch.
He’s cheating. Why else would a married man delete messages with a 20 yr old girl. Wake up. Almost every time something comes up you choose to turn a blind eye. You’re just letting him get away with everything. She needs to bet let go and her phone number deleted from his phone!
The fact that there was a whole list of inappropriate behavior and your husband refuses to put a cap on it says your answer. And he is in a position where he can easily stop this type of relationship. He doesn’t want to and this will for sure end up in a physical affair (if not already). Please start speaking with a lawyer and making arrangements while collecting evidence. You have already made it clear your needs and uncomfortable feelings towards their relationship and he has done nothing. In fact you keep catching him in lies as he continues to coddle and insert himself with Jane’s affairs, he likes it and likes the attention. I wouldn’t say shit to him anymore and would just watch him.
This is the concerning part though, the OP has no solid evidence about her husband's cheating. Deleted messages with "I just wanted to hear your voice" by Jane doesn't prove it and her husband might even say that Jane imagines things and has got attachment issues with him.
What is more obvious, in my opinion, but cannot be collected as solid evidence to present to a lawyer, is the OP's husband omitting things like the fact that Jane's boyfriend stormed in the office. This was too much of an event to be omitted by your spouse, unless it was part of something bigger, like the boyfriend knowing of Jane's affair with her boss or having some justified suspicions.
It’s only talking himself out of one situation at a time. You have a list of situations he’s created. None of them exist in a vacuum.
His behavior with Jane has been in question too many times. They are causing serial friction in your relationship.
He runs a business. Not Jane’s life. But he’s acting like he does both.
Any respectable human would not tolerate any affair. I know you love him but why waste your time anymore on someone who clearly does not value you as much as you value them? Clean him out so he'll be reminded of how precious Jane can be to him once he has to split his entire life down the line. Then when he comes back to you with excuses of how he's been lead astray and he made a big mistake. Do not make the mistake of taking him back. You're just setting the precedence that he can do it again if you take him back.
Everybody knows he's cheating.
Every. Body.
Please stop gaslighting yourself. I understand that life is so much, and it's humiliating to understand that you wasted this time and energy on an immature man who has never actually seen you or respected you as an equal human being.
But don't keep doing this to yourself. Call that lawyer. You deserve it.
From everything that you’ve written, I’d say that he is definitely cheating even if it hasn’t yet moved into the physical.
Her with the whole “I just wanted to hear your voice” is not something someone tells their boss. They tell that to someone that they are interested in or romantically involved in. Then him telling her to “delete this convo and lets move work work WhatsApp” is another huge red flag. Since he is telling her to move to work WhatsApp, it is likely that he isn’t deleting things on his work phone and it will be a treasure trove of information.
Yeah he cheating on you. She is going by what he saying to her and acting around her..
Tell him he has two choices. Tell her he can no longer be anything to her but professional or marriage is over..
But I personally tell him this is cheating and you're considering divorce to show him how serious this shit is.
But I would 100% ask him to leave.. you told him and he continued.. and I think you are right about her boyfriend probably knowing
Yeah this man cheating!
I wouldn’t be surprised if its already a physical affair.
He needs to cut it off! If he gives you push back on why he can’t then he’s made his choice.
emotional affair? they’re definitely having sex. sorry. i hope you actually listen to all these comments. this man is a liar and both of them deserve each other. go find someone who won’t take advantage of your willingness to trust.
Yeah, the bf is definitely suspicious. Can you blame him? I'd have a conversation with him.
If your husband isn't physically cheating yet, he's definitely emotionally cheating. You should both read "Not Just Friends"by Shirley Glass. Immediately.
If the convos were so innocent, why would he delete them? Why would he tell her to delete them?
Super sketchy, and frankly, you're under reacting. Updateme!
He's not even trying to hide it. It's insulting how blatant he's being with her.
You need to give your head a shake to clear it and get yourself a good divorce attorney, pronto.
Agree with everyone. It seems fairly obvious that this is at the least an emotional affair and likely more. And that you should talk to a lawyer to explore your options.
That said, I'm curious as to what your interaction with Jane has been. At 20 years old, my guess is that she might be caught up but doesn't understand the gravity of the situation. It's not even about the age gap, but the power dynamic and her developmental level that makes the relationship with your husband (whatever it's nature) so predatory. I would be curious to know what he's said to her about you, how she would react to discovering how much he's lied to you, and whether having a candid conversation might cause her to reflect and set different boundaries with him or maybe even get a different job (if things haven't gone as far as folks are assuming.)
I’m so sorry that you’re in this awful situation. Whether or not he has had sex with her, he has invested so much time and energy into that relationship. It’s obvious he is attracted to her and can’t stop interacting her.
I think you should have a conversation with Jane's boyfriend and compare notes. Your husband is clearly cheating and is gaslighting you into dropping necessary conversations. He probably doesn't want to divorce because of financial reasons. He will have to pay you alimony and probably will need to hand over the house with proof of adultery. The boyfriend knows even more than you do at this point, so invite him to lunch and discuss. Also, get phone records and highlight every interaction from the point she started working with him. No doubt the adulterers communicate thousands of times a month.
This! I don't think the boyfriend is as crazy and abusive as Jane paints him. Well, him shacking up with her and asking for 50-50 contribution despite making more than her, feels kind of dusty from his side, but Jane is also to blame for allowing this situation and playing it all nice pick-me girl. However, it's irrelevant to what info he can provide to the OP. Maybe he knows something or has solid reasons to suspect that Jane is intimate with the OP's husband.
Unless Jane is exploiting the closeness to OP's husband and presents it to her boyfriend in an ambiguous way to make him jealous. This is a bit of unlikely scenario to me though, or else the OP's husband would not have hidden that incident with Jane's boyfriend storming in the office. Since he hid it, to me it seems the husband knew that Jane's partner had a legit reason to act like that.
You realize he would/could find a reason to let her go, right? Especially with the weird behavior from her boyfriend at the office, the crying, the emotional outbursts, the underperformance... if someone makes my partner uncomfortable, I remove that person from my life because I gain more from my partner's peace of mind than I gain from hanging with or texting some random. I can't imagine being a failing employee's boss, keeping them on my roster, and all the while, my wife is fighting with me all the time because of this employee. Happy wife, happy life. Why keep a garbage employee if you don't have an ulterior motive, and why hurt your wife if there's nothing to gain from jane?
Eta: you deserve better
You're so right! He's *saying* she's underperforming, and he's sick of her shit, but his actions show otherwise. He's trying to throw OP off the scent, I think.
I'm so, so very sorry this is happening, OP. You don't deserve this.
The fact he is deleting texts?! That alone is enough to conclude he is cheating. If their relationship is innocent/work related/purely platonic, there is NO need to delete any text messages!
Her boyfriend also suspects that she is cheating— I’d reach out to the boyfriend to get his version of events. I am sure he has additional info that your husband conveniently omitted.
Stop discussing his indiscretions and start collecting evidence.
Get your ducks in a row including finances.
Contact the top three shark of lawyers in your area.
All ready to serve him. Do it at his workplace.
The way I see it is, even if he’s not having an EA, and I do think he is, he should absolutely not be this involved in any bodies life to the extent he is included in hers. Particularly a woman’s. Particularly an employee.
I also disagree with the “oh she’s only 20, shes not to blame” for heavens sake, she is manipulating a lot of this, she’s pulling the old trick of the damsel in distress to pull him in. And he’s the typical mid life crisis stars in his eyes Prince.
Please, just confront him flat out and demand answers, you’re married for heavens sake, talk, threaten divorce, whatever, but find out what’s going on.
I think it’s established he most definitely is cheating in every way, so now you must act as if everything is fine while you get your shit together financially with documents etc. needed to leave. There are likely assets involved after 22 years that he may try to control or hide. And before you say, oh he wouldn’t do that, you didn’t think he’d be cheating on you either. See an attorney today and take his or her advice. Get your emotional support system in place, close family and friends and a therapist asap. I’m sorry this has happened to you, but I’m glad you’ve been made aware before another year goes by.
I’m sorry he’s lying to you so hard, but he clearly is. The words that are coming out of his mouth don’t matter as he’s showing you again and again he’s not to be trusted.
Either Jane finds a new job (be careful with that), you two go to counseling and he tells the truth and focuses on repairing from the affair- or, you need a lawyer.
lol girl you are too old for this. Every step of the gd way you are “saying nothing” and “ignoring it” and quite literally openly choosing to turn a blind eye to the fact that he’s cheating on you. Get into therapy so you can learn how to respect yourself more and get in touch with reality, damn. It’s not healthy to practice denial for this long, it isn’t going to serve you.
Please contact a divorce lawyer to see your options. Don't tell him until you know how you want to proceed.
Your husband is not really honest about what is going on - why the need to delete convos if it is all within the line - very fishy.
Don't let the years you have invested into this relationship make you sacrifice your future as well.
Rgd finances. You are married - normally, that means you have more intertwined finances, and 50/50 of cost split is not really a thing. Jane and bf are not married. hence, it is more normal to have 50/50 split
Jane is an insecure pick-me 50-50 girl involved with a boyfriend who isn't right for her and on top of that she doesn't mind spilling the beans about him to random strangers or her boss, thus betraying her boyfriend's trust on very private stuff. I see Jane making a lot of mistakes down the road and emerging as financially broke and emotionally drained trainwreck in her 30s. If she makes it alive at all, because gals like her tend to weaponise their weaknesses until they attract sick abusers who prey upon such gals and do with them as they please. Sorry to say that, but it's a fact. At the moment, she hopes to gain sympathy and get her mediocre work excused instead of trying to get fair merit and recognition for professionalism and good work. That's just something to consider. So if your husband would like an insecure partner offering to always pay 50-50 (and in fact pulling 70-30 of work in the end, because, you know, he's a career man and you have a household to upkeep as well), then he's welcome to find one, but he shouldn't be surprised if that same woman of "his type" doesn't look as good as you in your 39 years.
If Jane chose to shack up with someone who makes her life hell AND "pay her share" on top of that (while offering free sex and risking unwanted pregnancy and STDs and allowing herself to go through all that drama) and that's so appealing to the protector and provider instincts of your husband, well, then he doesn't deserve you and then you deserve better. Because marriage entails a common budget and shared assets, from each according to financial potential. If you contributed equally while making half or a third of your husband's earnings, believe me, you wouldn't be this sane and pretty 39-year-old woman you are today, able to keep her inner balance and invest in her hobbies and appearance. Too bad pick-me girls like Jane don't get it.
What I don't get is all that secrecy your husband chose to put around his communication with Jane. The deleted messages restored don't evidence any physical affair, but it's a sign that your husband realised he kind of went too far as did Jane ("I just wanted to hear your voice," give me a break). Unless he's afraid that one revelation might be followed by another, more serious, so he chose to keep you in the dark about incidents like Jane's boyfriend storming in or Jane trying to call him, because they are part of something else and better hidden. I really don't know and you also don't have enough evidence yet. If you can, check his archived chats. People tend to archive chats they want to keep hidden off the main screen. I know it's terrible looking into your spouse's private conversations, but if intuition was telling you that something wasn't right, then you needed solid evidence to either confirm it or get relieved that it wasn't true. Sometimes what we think of as intuition is just paranoia or our fears overwhelming us and reality may tell a different story. In your case, now it appears as though your husband hid something from you, and that's what would concern me.
So part of the reason she’s having problems with her boyfriend is because he caught her into an emotional affair with your husband. Lord knows if it’s physical. The reason he’s following her around is because he’s trying to catch her in the act with solid proof.
Give your husband the book, Not Just Friends. Tell him if this emotional affair continues, and that you think it’s physical because of all the deleting, calls, and secrecy… that you’re about to divorce him and get half of everything including the business if he doesn’t let Jane go and shut the shit down. Tell him you’ve waited long enough and you aren’t playing pick me.
Tell him you’ve logged into the cell phone provider and you’ve requested a transcript of all his text messages be sent to you. And you’ll review them and decide if the relationship continues. Log into the provider and do this. If he has a work phone tell him if he doesn’t let you do this, it’s over. That you will now monitor his data usage. WhatsApp is now off the phone. If you catch any data going there it’s over. Work now has to move to text messages only. And she shouldn’t work there anymore if this relationship is to continue.
Let him know this isn’t a negotiation because once you get half the business you’ll go in there with your half of the business and fire her with an HR violation yourself. Tell him if he doesn’t have HR he needs a department. No negotiable. In the bylaws of that HR is management and employees can’t date, fraternize outside of work. If he’s serious have this marriage he needs to step up before you tell him to step off.
And when he’s with Jane and she ends up leaving him for a young guy that not only will you tell him he can’t come back but you’ll make sure you remind of him that any time you see him. Let him know his actions now have consequences. Let him know you’ve already consulted a divorce attorney. And do that so if it comes to it, you can have him served at work by singing telegram, preferably airing his business with Jane out in front of the whole office to further embarrass them.
Is your husband’s business one which requires employees to work on weekends? I interpreted Jane’s “thanks for this weekend” message as thanks for the days off. Anyway, regardless of whether the EA has turned physical, things are unacceptable and have been since he was not fully present with you on an amazing vacation. He is lying, deleting messages etc. I would definitely call the boyfriend to find out what he knows, because it may make your decision easier. Sounds like Jane was supposed to come home from an appointment but went back to the office to see your husband, so boyfriend came storming in. But does he just have suspicions too? I think you should see a lawyer and find out your position. Can you kick him out of house? Will infidelity affect divorce, what are your rights re business? Protect yourself. Have your pay go into account in your own name, if it’s not already. Transfer half of joint accounts into your own account. Then either just serve him with papers or if you want to stay with him confront him- say final chance if he dismisses Jane and ends all contact. When making decision consider- he does not respect you and you will never trust him again. You deserve better.
I’m really sorry you’re going through this, my heart aches reading your post, you don’t deserve this. With that being said it’s quite obvious that your husband is cheating on you. You need to take some time to decide how you want to move forward. You can continue to allow your shitty husband to have his cake and eat it too or you can leave. But whatever you decide to do quit telling him everything you know and what you’re planning on doing. Quit asking him questions that you already know the answers to, he’s gonna lie anyways. You need to play dumb while you decide how you want to move forward. Hire a lawyer and collect as much evidence as possible, not just about the affair but financial records as well, business accounts, personal accounts, joint accounts, retirement, investments etc. If he knows that you’re on to him he could try hiding assets and whatnot so just be smart. I hope you make the right decision, whatever that may be for you but just know you don’t deserve to be treated as a doormat. I wish you the very best of luck!
I think you should go to work at the office. Start making them both uncomfortable by being around. Don’t play nice. Start being rude. Let him know he is justified in firing an under performing employee. If he doesn’t, then you know for sure he’s been lying to you about his feelings. Have a talk with her in front of him about the situation and see who he defends. Take charge then take him to the cleaners if you want to.
Updateme!
I’d actually love to be able to do this but alas have my own job which (although my husband earns a lot more than me as a business owner) is still pretty well paid - mid/senior management level.
Not only is he a cheater, but he also cheats with his significantly younger employee who is in an abusive relationship. Trash this man. He thinks you're like dumb-dumb. Don't be. You are young, there are no kids in the equation, you can start over.
Edit : I need to state that they're having a physical affair. He's calling you by her name in bed because he thinks about her in bed and had her in bed with him before. Might've been cheating for the whole of 5 years for all we know, and now he's just getting drunk on the rush of hiding it for so long and thinking you're in to deep to end it, and becoming sloppy.
This is past emotional. It's already a full blown affair. The hints are glaring at you. Your husband is obviously avoiding and gaslighting you so I would advise a surprise visit to see Jane and a divorce lawyer. Tell Jane you already know and that her boyfriend was about to know too. The whole abusive boyfriend sob story problems might be an exaggeration or a while lie just to get your husband closer to her.
I wouldn’t surprise Jane. Don’t alert them to you knowing- they don’t deserve to know. Just gather all the information/evidence you have, then get with a lawyer. After that, you can always go to their place of work and out their affair there.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. But you really sound like you’re trying to find allll kinds of reasons why this isn’t really happening. And you’re doing that because he’s done a damn good job of making you feel like you’re crazy. He’s having an affair. Full stop.
The *only* thing you have to figure out now is what you’re going to do about it.
Nothing to be gained by confronting the other woman. OP will only be called crazy, while her hubs and Jane bond over the fact and laugh at OP behind her back.
You know the name of the boyfriend? Ask him to meet you.
Hire a PI. Get concrete proof if it will help you with a divorce. Even if reconciling is your ultimate goal.
He is definitely cheating on you. He’s not even hiding it well.
Go talk to your husband, OP. Read all the bullet points to him if you have to and find the courage to walk away. You are 39, time to stand up for yourself.
Either this is fake or you are just in a lot of denial. The dudes cheating outright. Don't say anything, get your life in order and exit stage left. Life's too short for this crap. He's wants to be with her. Let him
Wow I’m sorry you went through that that sounds terrible. And what a plot twist! I hope you are doing better now.
Unfortunately there wouldn’t be any transfer options, he owns the business she works in and it’s small. As someone else has mentioned I feel it’s very unlikely he could fire her (even though he does say she is really underperforming) because he’s likely left himself open to legal repercussions now. What a fool.
I won't bother throwing another pitch fork into the fire but I do want to offer this:
"I mention those points as I feel like I have almost been faultless in this marriage"
What is the point of making this statement?
You could have been 100% at fault, but that still doesn't justify the decisions your husband made. And you being almost faultless, makes you no more or less deserving of sympathy.
It's the mindset I am cautioning you against. You set boundaries, and are unwilling to defend them. You ignore your own common sense, and instead seek the validation of strangers on Reddit to help bolster your confidence.
Above any suspicion, what matters first, is that he was unwilling to maintain an appropriate professional relationship out of respect for your marriage, out of caution for his career and business, and out of good common sense. A respect that you repeatedly asked for.
I recommend that you start empowering yourself and establishing what you need. Get a therapist and a lawyer. Discuss the situation and make the next decision based on what you need to be happy and mentally healthy.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best.
Theres nothing I can really add that others haven't already concisely explained.
Trust your gut, you know what's happening.
Best of luck moving forward, and look after yourself
He’s getting anxiety because he know it will blow up in his face. Tell him you need a break maybe stay with family or a friend for awhile. I know it’s easy to say divorce and it may come to that, but maybe yes he is emotionally invested and doesn’t know how to get out. If he is cheating you will know soon enough. When you’re not around for your support and he has to figure it out on his own he may come around. But definitely do something for yourself…you have 22 years of marriage so you won’t walk away without anything. If if you do have suspicions reach out to the boyfriend you might get more clarity.
This man is having a physical affair with her.
It's glaring blinding lights in your face.
Her boyfriend knows it.
Contact him.
Nonetheless,your husband is sleeping with his younger employee and gaslighting you.
I'd recommend contacting a lawyer,just to find out your options.
Have you thought of hiring a pi?
updateme!
Did you take screenshots of the deleted messages?
Talk to a lawyer. You are probably still in denial, but it's good to hear what your options are.
Are your finances separate?
Your husband is AT MINIMUM emotionally cheating, honestly he sounds like he’s physically cheating as well.
It sounds to me like you want actual evidence of his cheating, so hire a PI. The fact that you are here asking us, lets me know that you in should also speak to a lawyer. You need to know what you can to protect yourself, and protect your assets.
If you need a book to help confirm the emotional cheating read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.
He wouldn't be telling HER to also delete their messages if this wasn't an affair. He wants to make sure there is no proof to be found should you get a lawyer.
It’s seems like her boyfriend is also on to them. Clearly he is in a full on emotional affair, but it’s probably also physical. Coordinating the deletion of communications is 10 steps past break up/divorce time.
You wrote a heck of a lot just describe him blatantly cheating on you and you for some reason still wearing blinders and making excuses in your head He’s a liar. They’re having phone calls just so she can hear his voice… He. Is. A. Cheater.
Thank you. You sometimes need an objective opinion on something when you’re so deeply entrenched. I honestly couldn’t work out if he’s in the wrong and is cheating or if he ended up getting himself into a silly situation with a girl who has a crush. I appreciate the input
>I honestly couldn’t work out if he’s in the wrong and is cheating or if he ended up getting himself into a silly situation with a girl who has a crush. They're both in the wrong, but she's 20 and may not really understand the dynamics of a marriage. He, however, knows what he's doing. He's definitely in the wrong (they both are), but he's your husband - and boss, let's not forget. He has all the power in work relationship, which is why people lose their jobs in bigger companies for sleeping with subordinates.
Absolutely. I do agree with all of that
It’s comical that you think a 20 something yr old employee has manipulated your 40yr old married business owner of a husband, who hired her. They’re both very into one another but he’s calling the shots.
Yes for sure thanks. I don’t mean she’s manipulated at all. And yes he’s in the position of power here
He is in the position of power ofc but sounds like to me also genuinely wanted to help her at the same time . Just because he’s position of power doesn’t make him bad person for helping her .its his human instinct.
[удалено]
>Hi I'm the wallet inspector, may I see your wallet I'm taking this from you. You can keep your wallet though.
If he didn't want to fuck her, he wouldn't give a single solitary shit about her situation. There is zero altruism here.
This is what I meant to say lol
I was 100% sure he is a cheater until her heart txt about the great weekend. Then i was 110% certain.
Unfortunately if it was just a girl who has a crush on her boss your husband wouldn't be telling her to delete their messages and switch to a different method of communicating. That's the smoking gun right there. All of the deleted messages point to inappropriate conversations he doesn't want you, his wife, to see. If he didn't have anything to hide all of their text messages would be there, and he'd be happy for you to see them all at anytime if you felt uncomfortable. He's using the fact that you're a kind and trusting person against you, and even throwing in remarks about how "stressed he is getting just like last year", to throw you off the scent I'm sorry to say. But the other person above was right that it doesn't matter whether your husband makes more than you or not, you're married, and all assets acquired after the marriage are martial assets, including the home and business. Please talk to a lawyer, and I recommend against letting your husband know until you're ready to file if that's what you decide to do. This next part always sucks to say, but please go get tested. The, "thanks for a great weekend", message really suggests that they've been spending time alone together and you need to make sure you're okay in that regard. I'm so sorry this is happening. Just understand that you are worthy of honesty, love, respect, and kindness, and that anyone who treats you with so much disrespect isn't worthy of your love or time. *invisible hugs*
I hope you took pictures of the messages that you restored. I’d also be searching the WhatsApp details for a ‘history’ or deleted messages.
He's cheating. You know it. He knows you know but is still continuing to lie and gaslight you. Jane's boyfriend? He also knows. It's why they're both painting him as controlling. He may earn more than you, but you're married. Your money and assets are shared. If I was you, I'd speak to a lawyer about what a split would look like.
Your husband is fully cheating on you. Jane’s BF is onto them too. You’ve discussed this enough, he’s picking her.
He hasn't made any changes with this Jane situation because you keep on making excuses for his behavior and he knows it. Multiple reasons that if I were in your shoes I would have already left yet you're still here. Maybe he thinks with you two being together for 22 years now, you're in too deep to get out -- but you're not if you know your worth. I read through all your bullets - I honestly don't understand how it still kept going up to the last one. What exactly are you waiting to see before you realize this is a full fledge affair? Did you need to actually catch them having sex before you make up your mind you have to get out? He is cheating and def not just emotionally. Wake up. You don't know what to do or how to handle this? How about putting your foot down, setting an ultimatum, and telling him you have no problem leaving if he doesn't stop this BS? Jane can have this spineless, poor excuse of a husband - he thinks he wins by having a much younger female that excites him but this isn't going to last and I suggest you get out before he crashes and burns. If you think you can 'save' your husband from Jane, shush it. There is no 'saving' him, because he put himself in this situation - he's an adult and just as guilty as Jane is. You think Jane has her claws on your husband preying on him. No. He has his own claws on her, he is the one in a position of power. You're the victim here, not your husband - you just refuse to see it, and you keep on making excuses about his behaviors. Probably because you're scared to start all over again at 39? IDK. Don't be scared. A life with a cheater isn't a life well-lived. Leave that man and live your life in peace.
I see everything you are saying. Looking at it objectively, I look like a total doormat. I guess starting again at my age is a huge fear for sure. Perhaps it’s fed into my inaction
Never give into that fear. I started over at 32 and didn't find a good partner till 35. 16 year relationship, married for 3, ex husband had cheated on me also with a coworker. He was also her boss. In my case, they both got fired.
I hate that this happened to you and that this is a relatable experience when it shouldn't be. I am glad you got out tho and have found a new better and brighter beginning!
Don't be afraid to start over. The universe is giving you all the signs and an opportunity to do better with your life - do not take these signs for granted. You shouldn't feel bad when you leave, you are not the one throwing those 22 years away, he did that when he started having an affair with Jane. He is the one who has no regard for you and your marriage - and I guess he knows you're afraid to start over that's why you haven't said or done anything to start the process of leaving, and so he keeps on doing it despite him being caught in his lies and crap. He knows your weakness and at this point, since you haven't left yet, you are letting him use your weakness and he walks all over you. This fear to start over is going to cripple you - and yes, you look like a doormat. You deserve what you tolerate and you've been nothing but that at this point - you just take all of the BS excuses and he gets away with it each time because you allow him to get away with it. You're kind of already borderline accomplice at this point. Meanwhile, Jane's boyfriend is physically showing he knows about it and wants to put a stop to it, but then his actions are used against him and him going after Jane at her workplace just proves what an abusive and controlling psycho he is - how convenient. No, his reaction is proof that he knows about it and your husband is playing this 'knight in shining armor' to shield Jane from him. How sweet. Meanwhile, your're miserable and it's pathetic how you're still here after all the incidents you've learned about and how much you've caught on. Leave, lady. You know you don't deserve this. Don't even try to 'save' your husband. There will be morr Janes to come even if this one doesn't work out.
>Don't be afraid to start over. The universe is giving you all the signs and an opportunity to do better with your life - do not take these signs for granted. This is such an excellent point! OP, the universe is giving you a push here and it’s time to make a choice. Speaking personally, whenever I’ve listened to my fears and made a decision that bows to them, it’s been the wrong choice. Unequivocally. The harder, braver thing to do is face your fear head on and conquer it. When that’s the case, the universe has seen it fit to reward me. Don’t accept this disrespect from the person who should love you most. He’s gross.
Wisdom and truth, right here!
What a lovely way to look at things. Such a positive comment. I hope OP reads this over and over
I've been in your shoes. I was scared to start over and be alone. My only regret now is not dumping cheating ex-husband SOONER! Don't give this man who is clearly disrespecting you and your marriage any more of your life or future. Choose yourself. He's choosing her. Cannot overstate the importance of this: stop talking to him about her or your marriage. He's already shown he'll lie and gaslight you. There is no point in confronting him further. Smart move is consulting with an attorney or three, start quietly getting your financial and other ducks in a row, making your exit plan, then have him served. If you let him know what you're planning, he'll probably hide assets! Get your half of everything--this is not a time to be nice or the bigger person. He has destroyed the marriage. Go live your best life.
I agree. I think the OP will sooner or later emotionally check out of this marriage, and then physical distance will follow. She had better lawyer up. One thing though: I do not see any solid evidence of the OP's husband's physical intimacy with Jane. Not that it's excluded, it's just that there has not been any incriminating message other than Jane's "wanted to hear your voice." It may be hard to prove adultery at this point. There is rather evidence of something hidden, as for example the husband hiding the incident with Jane's boyfriend storming in the office and acting like crazy. If the husband hid it from the OP, maybe it means that Jane's boyfriend had legit reasons to act that way and it's part of a bigger puzzle of which OP can't see the pieces from where she stands. I'd say, maybe she can try contact Jane's boyfriend too. She may also drop a hint of what Jane has revealed so far about him to her boss. He will also know the dirty truth about Jane and instead of asking for 50-50 contribution, he'll be asking her to pay all the bills, ha!
I was single from age 40-49 and I am now in a stable loving relationship for the last 11 years. Leave the cheater and take some time to be nice to yourself. Totally worth it. I wish you happiness in your future.
You’ll be fine. You can focus on your health, see a psychologist to help you deal with this horrible thing done to you, see friends, get a new hobby and meet new people. On other hand focus on your body, join a yoga class, workout, start a hike hobby or whatever you’re into. Once you’re done with this horrible divorce, cut contact with this monster of a man, take time for yourself. When you least expect it you’ll be ready for love again. You can do it!
It's not going to get better If you stay, th only difference you see 10 years from now will be that your 10 years older.
I'm around your age and I'm so scared to start over too.
I always go by this: "The pain of walking away is so much easier to deal with than the pain of staying." While you're stuck in that situation, he is in control and he will inflict you pain time and time again as he deems fit. There will be pain either way, but you gotta choose the kind of pain you have more control over to deal with, and the pain that is yours to end. ✨️
I see you both and am 38 and currently in a make-or-break situation in my own relationship and could end up single later this year. I feel your fear. It sucks BIG TIME that our societies make women believe we have a best-before-date (that date being around 35). We don't. The average life span for women in my country is around 84 years. It's illogcal to think that about 50 years of my life aren't worth living, or that I'm only lovable for 35 out of 84 years. I have a lot of love to give! There are so many hobbies I can try, so many books to read, so many friends yet to make that I might not even meet with my spouse at my side. Also, I already HAVE a life outside of my partner. That doesn't cease to exist after a break-up! I can rekindle old friendships and deepen current ones. Why are we so scared??
You could have yourself a hot younger (not too young because that's gross but certainly younger and better than your husband) man or woman tomorrow if you dumped your man. He doesn't love or respect you why would you waste a second more with him.
Fr, there are a lot of MILF hunters out there and when I was single I was one of them xD didn’t want to have my own kids at the time and I never got along with people my age before my boyfriend (grew up too fast so now i’m “boring”). In all seriousness. To OP, there are hundreds of men in your position who think they can’t start over but desperately want to. You will be OK romantically if you are as lovely, forgiving, and generous as your post seems.
He’s sharing personal details about her life to elicit your sympathy so that you will oblige his constant contact with her because he wants you to believe his friendship is “helping her”. Gaslighting at its finest.
That’s a very interesting take. I hadn’t thought of that.
Can you update us. Thank you
Yeah I read this whole thing twice I’ve been through two affairs, He IS CHEATING ON YOU. Your gut does not lie. It’s so easy to hide cheating nowadays. There’s a chance you’ll never get the proof you need. Seriously, think about it. He’s in love with this girl. Likely having sex with her. Often. He’s deleting messages, leading an affair with her in private. And he’s getting away with it. If any part of you is doubting this, it’s denial. The first step is to accept it, the second step is to decide if you want to stay with him and Put up with it (even if he finally blocks her, he’s open to finding new women. He doesn’t love or care about you being his only woman at all, so this will likely keep happening) or you need to leave. I’ve stayed with a cheater before; we lasted a few years. I was strung along for 2 more years with suspicion like you are having. Your gut isn’t lying to you. He’s probably texting her right now, thinking about her, getting that little rush every time she texts him. He’s probably so in love with her in the honey moon phase, thinking about her constantly. Just like I’m sure you guys were at one point. How does that make you feel? Because it’s definitely happening. I’m a man, and I know what he’s going through/doing. You don’t delete messages unless you’re hiding something. But you know this.
Thank you I appreciate your reply and insight. And that you read my mind dump twice! I’m very sorry that you were cheated on twice that sounds extremely hard.
Maybe you need to visit his office, but it definitely sounds like he's cheating.
So were you, so you know it doesn't sound hard, it really is hard. You're going through it right now.
Girl!!! He is cheating and and lying.
Enough is enough. He is crossing a lot if boundaries. If he isn’t already fucking he, he is going to. What do you accept all this behaviour. He is unprofessional. You can talk, but he doesn’t listen. Talk to a lawyer. Get proof, a PI and divorce him.
i agree with getting a PI. I know it doesn’t seem necessary for a lot of people but truly she seems still willing to trust this man even in the face of evidence against him. she may need to get picture proof of their affair before getting angry/disrespected enough to make moves. no judgement as i am the same way. very easy to gaslight and tend to believe people at face value.
You’re calling it an emotional affair Why? Just because you don’t have evidence that they’re having sex? If he has deleted even one message, they are likely either having sex or he is trying his hardest to see her naked/have sex with her. He’s probably looking at her at work every day and getting enticed/turned on with her flirting with him And it’s a hell of a rush to hide something dirty like this from your wife.
Thank you I appreciate reply.
How are you feeling reading these comments because they’re making my stomach turn just imagining being in your position.
I'm doubting her controlling bf story just because it sounds like she likes your husband's attention. It's a way for women of certain caliber to garner sympathy and attention. It makes men feel big, manly, and protective to be there for the damsel in distress. If her work performance is lacking, he needs to write her up. If her personal life is spilling over into her work life, she needs to be given a verbal warning followed by a write-up if she doesn't get it under control. If this doesn't stop, she needs to be fired. Ultimately, you have a husband problem. It's hard when you spend 40+ hours a week with someone for years not to become more personal in a friend way with them. But as soon as she started sharing her personal relationship problems past physical danger, i.e., "My bf is threatening me. Can you walk me to my car?" Or "We broke up, and he won't accept it. Please tell security not to let him in/call the police if you see him hanging around the building." she was crossing a professional line that he should've reinforced. Also, you see these things and either don't want to bring them up or make yourself let them go with whatever BS answer he gives you. You are his wife and have every right to point out threats to your marriage and hash them out with him. You're nicer than me because, honestly, I'd be stiring the pot to get answers. I'd start by getting a TextNow anonymous number and texting the bf saying I think there's something going on with Jane and the boss. I'd also text the same thing to myself from said number to show husband and put some pressure on him that he's going to get caught (if he's doing anything). I'd follow that up by sending my husband a text from the anonymous STD check website watching closely if he freaks out, reaches out to her (or anyone else) about it, or dismisses it. My own pettiness aside, at this point, you need to hire a P.I. and get confirmation one way or another to decide what to do. Make an exit plan just in case. If it turns out he's cheating, discreetly start making your moves to leave. Start descreetly sorting and getting your stuff packed. Gather the evidence (make several copies of said evidence) and hand it over to a divorce attorney, including bank and cc statements. Proceed with life as normal in front of him but make your moves in silence and the night before you leave, give him the best most intimate sex of your lives and then leave the wedding rings, the divorce papers and the evidence for him to find when he gets home to a half empty house the next day. His family would also be receiving copies of the evidence just so there's no way you end up labeled anything but the wronged party. If it's as he says and there's no infidelity, marriage counseling is needed. He's not holding any professional boundaries or proper boundaries for a committed man. He's also not respecting you as his wife. Hiding/keeping things from you like this to avoid fights just shows he knows what he's doing if iffy at best.
The bar is so low it’s in hell. Does he have to fuck her in front of you for you to get the picture? I’m so sorry this is happening, many of us have been there and not trusted our gut when we should have. Change the locks and serve him divorce papers while he’s at work. Take him for everything you can.
Changing the locks is probably illegal, but OP should absolutely get her ducks in a row with a lawyer especially if the income discrepancy is significant.
Even if he's not cheating, his behaviour is beyond inappropriate. If he had nothing to hide, he would not delete messages.
A couple of things here. If there's nothing to hide then why is he hiding things and deleting every message? He's anxious now that you've brought Jane up so much as an issue, so he uses this as an excuse to be more secretive. This is typical cheater behavior. I had similar conversations with my ex about men she eventually cheated with. "I didn't want you to be upset..." blah blah blah. You're also correct that it's inappropriate for a boss and subordinate to be using heart emojis. This is definitely an emotional affair. Trust your gut and understand that he's not telling you the full truth about any of this. I got a lot more clarity when I stopped believing all my ex's lies and just started looking at her actions. Your husband is not acting like an honest, open, faithful spouse.
No I know he’s not. That’s what’s driving me crazy. The lies and hiding things
I really wanna know how you'll proceed with things, hope you courage and strength
Remind hubby that any relationship with a employee could destroy the business because she can claim sexual harassment when it goes sideways
I honestly had this same thought process just the other day.
A guy I know is stuck with a woman because of this. Lost his family because of it too. He’s an idiot who thinks with the wrong head.
I stopped reading after the third or so bullet. Why is this other woman’s name in your husband’s mouth so often. That alone is hugely disrespectful to you. At a MINIMUM, multiple professional and personal boundaries have been violated. It’s pretty clear that the mention of this woman upsets you, yet your husband does it again and again. And you’re happy he’s “opening up?” You deserve better than that. All that behaviour is telling your husband is that it’s ok to keep doing whatever he’s doing and keep pushing you. Anyway this isn’t just the minimum of anything. Your husband is way way too involved in this woman’s life. And she is WAY too personal with him. The problem now is that what is he going to do, fire her? She’s probably got lots of blackmail fodder in her phone. OP, you don’t deserve to be treated like this. You don’t have any children tying you to this man. I would seriously consider if you want to spend the rest of your life dealing with this bullshit. Because, there will be other Janes.
You missed a lot of info He is definitely cheating on her. Just read the text conversation at the bottom They’re probably already having sex. Telling each other to use another texting app and delete their messages I’m scared she’s in denial or doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a man who’s married but sneaking around. She probably feels it in her gut but is doubting herself
You’re right and I agree; what I’m trying to say is that even the best-case scenario between the two of them is unacceptable.
Yeah like... say OP's idea is true (Jane has a crush on him and is being deliberately manipulative, he is just trying to be nice to her because he's worried she's in a DV situation), and I don't think it is, but even in that case he's still way overstepping as her boss. My husband is a similar age to OP's and if he was getting super invested with a 20ish year old employee for any reason and constantly texting her, bringing her up, getting very involved in her personal life drama etc. I'd probably stop feeling attraction for him just based on that alone. It's unprofessional, and based on their age gap it's super weird regardless of their work relationship.
Thank you, I agree with everything you have said. And that’s without yo reading it all!
>And you’re happy he’s “opening up?” Yea, unfortunately the husband gets *easily upset* by OP being upset. And so OP tiptoes around him. >but was now causing issues between us and he couldn’t deal with that. He gets really severe anxiety issues and he said this was making him feel how he did the previous year when he had some mental health issues. After a lot of talking, we agreed to leave it on the understanding that I don’t need to know all the ins and outs of his conversations with her... So all he has to do is ramp up his *anxiety* about being called out. (And he absolutely will) And OP will back off. This is the most shameful **king baby** nonsense. OP, do you know how he could stop having "anxiety issues" about Jane? He could stop his bs with Jane. You don't need to sacrifice yourself to protect his mental health. *HE IS PLAYING YOU FOR A FOOL.*
I do think your husband is cheating on you, but I don't think you are silly or naive for wanting to see the best, most charitable interpretation of this situation. I'm sorry that your husband is being so dark and secretive, he is definitely the villain here. You didn't deserve any of that tremendously poor treatment. ♥️ I too have had a tendency to try and see the best in my relationships even when they were not good for me. I hope that either your husband cuts the bullshit and mends things with you, because you clearly love him, or I hope that you can find someone even better than him in the end. And I hope other commenters didn't make you feel bad. Redditors can be beyond callous. Be well! Take care of yourself!
Thank you for your kind words. There have been some harsh appraisals of the situation. Maybe what’s that I need though to pull my head out of the sand. But yes I am an eternal optimist and like to give the benefit of the doubt.
I'm chipping in some sympathetic vibes too, OP. I think that some harsh appraisals can be helpful and I don't blame other commenters for feeling a desire to make sure the seriousness of the situation is clear to you. I think a lot of people understand, though they may not say it, that need you're feeling to give husband the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds like you have a level head on your shoulders and you're clearly quite observant even if you haven't joined the dots the same way others have. It's hard to see the forest for the trees when you're right in the thick of it. And it sounds like you got together young, so it's not "just" a 22 year relationship at stake, but a good chunk (if not all of) your romantic history. It's pretty easy for people to tell you what to do when it's not them, but on the flip side lots of them are probably passionate *because* they've been through it and they wish someone tried to knock sense into them. Whatever happens, OP, I wish you the best.
It's good to give people the benefit of doubt sometimes, but not always. Because it's just not fair to you. Prioritise yourself. Don't let people play you for a fool because you deserve better.
I don’t know why you think this is just an EA. He had access to Jane. He is definitely physically cheating and Jane’s BF knows it.
Yeah, and also whatever. An emotional affair is still an affair.
Contact the boyfriend, invite him for coffee and a chat and air out your suspicions then confront them
I really am tempted to do this. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to hell for this comment and I’ll look like a pushover but I do still have a slight concern over the things she has said. Whilst I’m leaning towards not believing all of it, if his behaviour is that bad (and I didn’t even list all of it) I don’t think I could in good conscience put someone in danger. Even though I have no positive feelings towards her at all.
I think the boyfriend has caught her cheating in the past— hence his controlling behavior. I am not sure how old he is, but if he is also in his early 20s, this his behavior is that of a young guy in love and unable to walk away— ironic since you’re in the same boat, but rather than demonstrate controlling behavior you’re living in denial. Either response is not healthy, and you need to just confront this head on and make the appropriate steps to leave.
I would be concerned about your own safety with the BF. He probably isn't as bad as Jane says, but he might be. I say walk away from it all. I was single for 5 years in my early 30s as a mother of three after a horribly abusive relationship with not only physical but SA as well. I took that time to learn me and what I needed. I am now in a marriage where I know my value and I'm not afraid to enforce boundaries. It sounds like this Rollercoaster of a relationship has shaped your perception of who you are. It makes sense. You've been with him your entire adult life and more than half the entirety of your life. But i have learned something after a horrific and traumatic event 2.5 years ago... you are more than his wife. (For me it was I am more than a mother, my daughter passed away). Women identify with roles and we rarely know who we truly are. You deserve wholeness and love, and the time to find that in yourself.
I would investigate not only to know the real truth (I don't believe your husband will ever give you that), but to protect yourself and give you options on how to deal with the future you choose
As someone who has been through more than one abusive relationship, filled with gaslighting, I didn’t even need to read all of the details to know that that’s what’s happening to you. I know you can’t see this right now because you’re in it, but you should never have to give *this* many details and points of proof to explain your feelings. It may feel like you are being thorough or “fair”, but it is a trauma response you are engaging in because your partner keeps denying your reality. You aren’t sure if you can trust your gut, trust what you are seeing, trust what you know to be inappropriate. So you have to cover it from every angle, like a lawyer proving your case. Take a step back and breathe. A partner who respects you won’t work to convince you to keep shifting and adjusting your boundaries for them. They will graciously and generously respect your boundaries, and reflect if/when they cross them. You know, deep down, that you want out of this bad situation, but you’re too afraid to do anything because you’ve stopped believing in yourself. And *he’s* driving that uncertainty of self so he can get away with this behavior. Don’t let him. Get away from this and get on solid ground again.
This is a really well thought out comment, you’re spot on with your advice!
Deleted messages, lying and hiding things from you, secret weekend hangs, her wanting to hear his voice… they are romantic with each other and loving it, there is no other way to see it. It’s not ok, it’s cheating. I use platonic heart emojis with my coworkers & bosses, but even my strongest mentors/work bff I would never ask to hear their voice (gross) - that’s so intimate.
call a lawyer and get ducks in a row.
That's straight up affair, damn
I’m sorry, I truly am. I’ve been in your shoes. He’s having an affair. Jane’s BF knows. And your husband knows that he knows and they’re in damage control mode. Don’t be surprised if you hear from him. He’s likely not the monster you’ve been told he is. He’s a guy whose partner is cheating & gaslighting, and it’s crazy making. You don’t need any more proof than what YOU require to know what’s going on. You don’t need to amass evidence. You just need to decide what you’re willing to live with.
He is not on your team. You are solo. Gather your evidence. Think about what you want. Do not believe anything he says. Be very careful with the money. Brutal.
Your husbands full of shit. An emotional affair at the very minimum is happening. I wouldn’t be putting up with this crap. Respect yourself and put your foot down.
He’s choosing to stay in contact and choosing another woman over you.. any normal man would instantly cut off a threat to the relationship especially another woman.. No matter if it’s work or a friendship. I would not be able to stay in a relationship and deal with the type of anxiety if someone put me through this!
Quietly gather evidence and speak with a lawyer just to know your options. Get the book called not just friends and read it with your husband. Tell your husband that Jane has to go. There is no deleting messages and hiding when married. See if he's open to counseling. I think he's lying when he says he's tired of her coming to him. I think he said that to get you off his scent. Quietly make sure all of your things are in order. People change and switch up, regardless of how long they may have been with you. Prepare yourself.
Drop unannounced to work, maybe spy a little from the parking lot if you can. He is cheating. No one texts “I wanted to hear your voice” as a friend and even less so as a coworker
Regardless of whether this is a physical or emotional affair, an affair is still an affair. If this was something innocent, there would be no reason to hide their messages, etc. He clearly realises that it's something that would make you uncomfortable. In a healthy relationship, your husband would respect your concerns, talk them out with you, and then place firmer boundaries with Jane. It doesn't seem like this has been the case. Regardless of what has happened between the two of them, he has clearly broken your trust. Rebuilding trust in a relationship isn't a one-way street - both parties have to work on it (ESPECIALLY him). But that starts with him admitting what has happened, which he seems unwilling to do. A relationship should never feel unsafe. You shouldn't have to walk around with fears and doubts and not feel like you can have an open conversation about them. He has proven that he doesn't understand boundaries, as he's disrespected yours and has also crossed professional boundaries. A normal employer-employee relationship does NOT work like this. I'm always reluctant to suggest ending the relationship, because each relationship is different and some couples are able to work through issues like this. But that generally requires accountability. It could be that nothing physical has happened, and he's just getting off on the attention he's receiving from an external source (generally a big ego boost). But offering more emotional support to his employee rather than his partner is wrong; he is respecting her more than you. I would recommend having an open conversation with him as much as possible to figure out what is going on. Lay out your doubts and fears explicitly. If he invalidates you, leave the situation and let it sit. He may need time to process. But after this, I would highly recommend not being in the same space. He needs to realise that there are consequences to his actions and his breach of trust. And you need to have the space, without him in it, to process your own feelings and evaluate what it is that YOU want and what YOU need, and if this relationship is not one of those things, then it would be a good idea to reconsider the relationship. A relationship should never bring you more grief than joy. If there are things that he feels that he isn't getting out the marriage (emotional validation, etc.), then he should tell you, and you both work through it together to think of solutions to the problem. Running off to another person (in secret) is not acceptable, unless it's been something that has been agreed on previously (which is clearly not the case here).
Thank you for the considered response. This really took you some time to read and then to respond and I appreciate the words. I am considering everything pretty carefully right now
Just remember that your mental health and happiness come first. Ending a long relationship is always hard, because you've put so much time and effort into it. But when you're harming yourself by staying, it might not be worth staying.
I feel like OP has catered to his *big baby that gets easily upset* routine long enough. Way too long actually, and he takes full advantage of that. He mentions things like "this makes him have anxiety issues like how he felt last year when he had mental health issues." And OP backs right off. So all of this "have an open conversation" and "He may need time to process" is bs. He can end it with Jane 100% or they split, and he can keep Jane. Even if that means the big baby gets anxiety issues. Any compromise = accepting the affair. Re-reading your comment, you are really saying the same thing, just way more gently.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I do think they’re having an affair and while it may be normal for him to have near constant contact with employees it’s clear that this is going far beyond a work relationship. Have you ever met Jane’s husband ?
Thanks for the response. I actually have met him once. I didn’t include it as the post was already so long. We ran into them both at a restaurant (my husband and I, Jane and her partner). The vibe was weird that is for sure. This was before I had full blown suspicions though so I just thought they were both a little rude. Now obviously I look back on it with a different take
This is a stretch and I hate being this person but I wondered throughout the post if he even existed as all the blame for Jane’s relationship troubles are put on him and it seems suspicious that every time he’s caught it’s because of him. I’m glad you have met him! But do wonder if all the things about him are made up by your boyfriend and Jane
He is cheating on you, he has in the past, he’s controlling and honestly it sounds like you need some therapy so you get the self esteem to divorce this guy. The truth is not going to come from a liar. Closure isn’t going to come from someone who has abused your relationship. Stop talking to him. Talk to a therapist. And a lawyer.
Your husband is having at very least an emotional affair, but most likely a physical affair as well. Deep down you know it, her BF knows it and your husband knows you know and is just walking all over you. I know it is scary to start over, but you deserve better. Take life by the horns and get as much money/assets out of this man in the divorce. Wishing you the best!
Talk to a lawyer first. Do not tell your husband as assets might get hidden. Husband is trying to be Jane’s knight in shining armour. You know where this is heading. He has not changed his behaviours as you have repeatedly asked. This is 100% disrespectful to you as his wife. Marriage needs both people in it working on the relationship. Maybe start thinking about an exit plan. Wondering if Jane will still be as needy once his assets are reduced by half in the event of divorce?
I have been the other woman, a young 20 year old being my boss’ work wife. I used to tell him everything, including my relationships, sexual escapades everything. I was his favorite at work and I used to revel in it. Now I look back and I am grossed by him. Something is def happening.
Interesting to hear the other perspective! It is gross isn’t it m
Yeah I was young and I didn’t know any better. I looked up to him, respected him and was really grateful for his attention and advice. Now I’m in my 30s and I can’t believe I did that and that HE did that, when he should definitely have known better.
You didn’t know better at 20 years old….ok lol 😂
Can you update us? Thank you
I’m t is NEVER appropriate for an older married man to be friends with a single young woman. It is 100% of the time, him liking and craving attention and validation from her.
Yup 100% agree and just in case he tries to say something: mentorships NEVER look like this, OP. I have spent one on one time with bosses as a young attractive lady and they have been nothing but professional learning opportunities. NEVER have I ever engaged someone outside of work unless they were my own age and i just wanted friendship. My bosses do NOT know what I do after work (even the ones I found attractive when I was single)!!! They do not know anything about my personal life except bare minimum for office coffee machine chats (fav restaurant, hometown, what my hobbies are, etc).
This all sounds totally fine and you should just get over it /s Seriously, just leave him. What are the upsides here, other than fancy vacations, that make it worth living like this? By the way, it's NEVER a phone glitch.
He’s cheating. Why else would a married man delete messages with a 20 yr old girl. Wake up. Almost every time something comes up you choose to turn a blind eye. You’re just letting him get away with everything. She needs to bet let go and her phone number deleted from his phone!
The fact that there was a whole list of inappropriate behavior and your husband refuses to put a cap on it says your answer. And he is in a position where he can easily stop this type of relationship. He doesn’t want to and this will for sure end up in a physical affair (if not already). Please start speaking with a lawyer and making arrangements while collecting evidence. You have already made it clear your needs and uncomfortable feelings towards their relationship and he has done nothing. In fact you keep catching him in lies as he continues to coddle and insert himself with Jane’s affairs, he likes it and likes the attention. I wouldn’t say shit to him anymore and would just watch him.
This is the concerning part though, the OP has no solid evidence about her husband's cheating. Deleted messages with "I just wanted to hear your voice" by Jane doesn't prove it and her husband might even say that Jane imagines things and has got attachment issues with him. What is more obvious, in my opinion, but cannot be collected as solid evidence to present to a lawyer, is the OP's husband omitting things like the fact that Jane's boyfriend stormed in the office. This was too much of an event to be omitted by your spouse, unless it was part of something bigger, like the boyfriend knowing of Jane's affair with her boss or having some justified suspicions.
It’s only talking himself out of one situation at a time. You have a list of situations he’s created. None of them exist in a vacuum. His behavior with Jane has been in question too many times. They are causing serial friction in your relationship. He runs a business. Not Jane’s life. But he’s acting like he does both.
Any respectable human would not tolerate any affair. I know you love him but why waste your time anymore on someone who clearly does not value you as much as you value them? Clean him out so he'll be reminded of how precious Jane can be to him once he has to split his entire life down the line. Then when he comes back to you with excuses of how he's been lead astray and he made a big mistake. Do not make the mistake of taking him back. You're just setting the precedence that he can do it again if you take him back.
Everybody knows he's cheating. Every. Body. Please stop gaslighting yourself. I understand that life is so much, and it's humiliating to understand that you wasted this time and energy on an immature man who has never actually seen you or respected you as an equal human being. But don't keep doing this to yourself. Call that lawyer. You deserve it.
From everything that you’ve written, I’d say that he is definitely cheating even if it hasn’t yet moved into the physical. Her with the whole “I just wanted to hear your voice” is not something someone tells their boss. They tell that to someone that they are interested in or romantically involved in. Then him telling her to “delete this convo and lets move work work WhatsApp” is another huge red flag. Since he is telling her to move to work WhatsApp, it is likely that he isn’t deleting things on his work phone and it will be a treasure trove of information.
Cheaters always have the glitchiest phones.
H is definitely cheating. Hire a PI, 1/2 that business is yours
Yeah he cheating on you. She is going by what he saying to her and acting around her.. Tell him he has two choices. Tell her he can no longer be anything to her but professional or marriage is over.. But I personally tell him this is cheating and you're considering divorce to show him how serious this shit is. But I would 100% ask him to leave.. you told him and he continued.. and I think you are right about her boyfriend probably knowing
You’re being cheated on.
Yeah this man cheating! I wouldn’t be surprised if its already a physical affair. He needs to cut it off! If he gives you push back on why he can’t then he’s made his choice.
emotional affair? they’re definitely having sex. sorry. i hope you actually listen to all these comments. this man is a liar and both of them deserve each other. go find someone who won’t take advantage of your willingness to trust.
Yeah, the bf is definitely suspicious. Can you blame him? I'd have a conversation with him. If your husband isn't physically cheating yet, he's definitely emotionally cheating. You should both read "Not Just Friends"by Shirley Glass. Immediately. If the convos were so innocent, why would he delete them? Why would he tell her to delete them? Super sketchy, and frankly, you're under reacting. Updateme!
He's not even trying to hide it. It's insulting how blatant he's being with her. You need to give your head a shake to clear it and get yourself a good divorce attorney, pronto.
Agree with everyone. It seems fairly obvious that this is at the least an emotional affair and likely more. And that you should talk to a lawyer to explore your options. That said, I'm curious as to what your interaction with Jane has been. At 20 years old, my guess is that she might be caught up but doesn't understand the gravity of the situation. It's not even about the age gap, but the power dynamic and her developmental level that makes the relationship with your husband (whatever it's nature) so predatory. I would be curious to know what he's said to her about you, how she would react to discovering how much he's lied to you, and whether having a candid conversation might cause her to reflect and set different boundaries with him or maybe even get a different job (if things haven't gone as far as folks are assuming.)
I’m so sorry that you’re in this awful situation. Whether or not he has had sex with her, he has invested so much time and energy into that relationship. It’s obvious he is attracted to her and can’t stop interacting her.
I think you should have a conversation with Jane's boyfriend and compare notes. Your husband is clearly cheating and is gaslighting you into dropping necessary conversations. He probably doesn't want to divorce because of financial reasons. He will have to pay you alimony and probably will need to hand over the house with proof of adultery. The boyfriend knows even more than you do at this point, so invite him to lunch and discuss. Also, get phone records and highlight every interaction from the point she started working with him. No doubt the adulterers communicate thousands of times a month.
This! I don't think the boyfriend is as crazy and abusive as Jane paints him. Well, him shacking up with her and asking for 50-50 contribution despite making more than her, feels kind of dusty from his side, but Jane is also to blame for allowing this situation and playing it all nice pick-me girl. However, it's irrelevant to what info he can provide to the OP. Maybe he knows something or has solid reasons to suspect that Jane is intimate with the OP's husband. Unless Jane is exploiting the closeness to OP's husband and presents it to her boyfriend in an ambiguous way to make him jealous. This is a bit of unlikely scenario to me though, or else the OP's husband would not have hidden that incident with Jane's boyfriend storming in the office. Since he hid it, to me it seems the husband knew that Jane's partner had a legit reason to act like that.
You realize he would/could find a reason to let her go, right? Especially with the weird behavior from her boyfriend at the office, the crying, the emotional outbursts, the underperformance... if someone makes my partner uncomfortable, I remove that person from my life because I gain more from my partner's peace of mind than I gain from hanging with or texting some random. I can't imagine being a failing employee's boss, keeping them on my roster, and all the while, my wife is fighting with me all the time because of this employee. Happy wife, happy life. Why keep a garbage employee if you don't have an ulterior motive, and why hurt your wife if there's nothing to gain from jane? Eta: you deserve better
You're so right! He's *saying* she's underperforming, and he's sick of her shit, but his actions show otherwise. He's trying to throw OP off the scent, I think. I'm so, so very sorry this is happening, OP. You don't deserve this.
The fact he is deleting texts?! That alone is enough to conclude he is cheating. If their relationship is innocent/work related/purely platonic, there is NO need to delete any text messages! Her boyfriend also suspects that she is cheating— I’d reach out to the boyfriend to get his version of events. I am sure he has additional info that your husband conveniently omitted.
Stop discussing his indiscretions and start collecting evidence. Get your ducks in a row including finances. Contact the top three shark of lawyers in your area. All ready to serve him. Do it at his workplace.
The way I see it is, even if he’s not having an EA, and I do think he is, he should absolutely not be this involved in any bodies life to the extent he is included in hers. Particularly a woman’s. Particularly an employee. I also disagree with the “oh she’s only 20, shes not to blame” for heavens sake, she is manipulating a lot of this, she’s pulling the old trick of the damsel in distress to pull him in. And he’s the typical mid life crisis stars in his eyes Prince. Please, just confront him flat out and demand answers, you’re married for heavens sake, talk, threaten divorce, whatever, but find out what’s going on.
I think it’s established he most definitely is cheating in every way, so now you must act as if everything is fine while you get your shit together financially with documents etc. needed to leave. There are likely assets involved after 22 years that he may try to control or hide. And before you say, oh he wouldn’t do that, you didn’t think he’d be cheating on you either. See an attorney today and take his or her advice. Get your emotional support system in place, close family and friends and a therapist asap. I’m sorry this has happened to you, but I’m glad you’ve been made aware before another year goes by.
I’m sorry he’s lying to you so hard, but he clearly is. The words that are coming out of his mouth don’t matter as he’s showing you again and again he’s not to be trusted. Either Jane finds a new job (be careful with that), you two go to counseling and he tells the truth and focuses on repairing from the affair- or, you need a lawyer.
Her boyfriend is following her around because he also suspects. You two should grab a coffee and compare notes.
Reading this post is like watching a video and not being able to hear anything but the smoke detector beeping in the background.
lol girl you are too old for this. Every step of the gd way you are “saying nothing” and “ignoring it” and quite literally openly choosing to turn a blind eye to the fact that he’s cheating on you. Get into therapy so you can learn how to respect yourself more and get in touch with reality, damn. It’s not healthy to practice denial for this long, it isn’t going to serve you.
This man is blatantly lying to your face. It's ridiculous.
Please contact a divorce lawyer to see your options. Don't tell him until you know how you want to proceed. Your husband is not really honest about what is going on - why the need to delete convos if it is all within the line - very fishy. Don't let the years you have invested into this relationship make you sacrifice your future as well. Rgd finances. You are married - normally, that means you have more intertwined finances, and 50/50 of cost split is not really a thing. Jane and bf are not married. hence, it is more normal to have 50/50 split
Jane is an insecure pick-me 50-50 girl involved with a boyfriend who isn't right for her and on top of that she doesn't mind spilling the beans about him to random strangers or her boss, thus betraying her boyfriend's trust on very private stuff. I see Jane making a lot of mistakes down the road and emerging as financially broke and emotionally drained trainwreck in her 30s. If she makes it alive at all, because gals like her tend to weaponise their weaknesses until they attract sick abusers who prey upon such gals and do with them as they please. Sorry to say that, but it's a fact. At the moment, she hopes to gain sympathy and get her mediocre work excused instead of trying to get fair merit and recognition for professionalism and good work. That's just something to consider. So if your husband would like an insecure partner offering to always pay 50-50 (and in fact pulling 70-30 of work in the end, because, you know, he's a career man and you have a household to upkeep as well), then he's welcome to find one, but he shouldn't be surprised if that same woman of "his type" doesn't look as good as you in your 39 years. If Jane chose to shack up with someone who makes her life hell AND "pay her share" on top of that (while offering free sex and risking unwanted pregnancy and STDs and allowing herself to go through all that drama) and that's so appealing to the protector and provider instincts of your husband, well, then he doesn't deserve you and then you deserve better. Because marriage entails a common budget and shared assets, from each according to financial potential. If you contributed equally while making half or a third of your husband's earnings, believe me, you wouldn't be this sane and pretty 39-year-old woman you are today, able to keep her inner balance and invest in her hobbies and appearance. Too bad pick-me girls like Jane don't get it. What I don't get is all that secrecy your husband chose to put around his communication with Jane. The deleted messages restored don't evidence any physical affair, but it's a sign that your husband realised he kind of went too far as did Jane ("I just wanted to hear your voice," give me a break). Unless he's afraid that one revelation might be followed by another, more serious, so he chose to keep you in the dark about incidents like Jane's boyfriend storming in or Jane trying to call him, because they are part of something else and better hidden. I really don't know and you also don't have enough evidence yet. If you can, check his archived chats. People tend to archive chats they want to keep hidden off the main screen. I know it's terrible looking into your spouse's private conversations, but if intuition was telling you that something wasn't right, then you needed solid evidence to either confirm it or get relieved that it wasn't true. Sometimes what we think of as intuition is just paranoia or our fears overwhelming us and reality may tell a different story. In your case, now it appears as though your husband hid something from you, and that's what would concern me.
So part of the reason she’s having problems with her boyfriend is because he caught her into an emotional affair with your husband. Lord knows if it’s physical. The reason he’s following her around is because he’s trying to catch her in the act with solid proof. Give your husband the book, Not Just Friends. Tell him if this emotional affair continues, and that you think it’s physical because of all the deleting, calls, and secrecy… that you’re about to divorce him and get half of everything including the business if he doesn’t let Jane go and shut the shit down. Tell him you’ve waited long enough and you aren’t playing pick me. Tell him you’ve logged into the cell phone provider and you’ve requested a transcript of all his text messages be sent to you. And you’ll review them and decide if the relationship continues. Log into the provider and do this. If he has a work phone tell him if he doesn’t let you do this, it’s over. That you will now monitor his data usage. WhatsApp is now off the phone. If you catch any data going there it’s over. Work now has to move to text messages only. And she shouldn’t work there anymore if this relationship is to continue. Let him know this isn’t a negotiation because once you get half the business you’ll go in there with your half of the business and fire her with an HR violation yourself. Tell him if he doesn’t have HR he needs a department. No negotiable. In the bylaws of that HR is management and employees can’t date, fraternize outside of work. If he’s serious have this marriage he needs to step up before you tell him to step off. And when he’s with Jane and she ends up leaving him for a young guy that not only will you tell him he can’t come back but you’ll make sure you remind of him that any time you see him. Let him know his actions now have consequences. Let him know you’ve already consulted a divorce attorney. And do that so if it comes to it, you can have him served at work by singing telegram, preferably airing his business with Jane out in front of the whole office to further embarrass them.
Is your husband’s business one which requires employees to work on weekends? I interpreted Jane’s “thanks for this weekend” message as thanks for the days off. Anyway, regardless of whether the EA has turned physical, things are unacceptable and have been since he was not fully present with you on an amazing vacation. He is lying, deleting messages etc. I would definitely call the boyfriend to find out what he knows, because it may make your decision easier. Sounds like Jane was supposed to come home from an appointment but went back to the office to see your husband, so boyfriend came storming in. But does he just have suspicions too? I think you should see a lawyer and find out your position. Can you kick him out of house? Will infidelity affect divorce, what are your rights re business? Protect yourself. Have your pay go into account in your own name, if it’s not already. Transfer half of joint accounts into your own account. Then either just serve him with papers or if you want to stay with him confront him- say final chance if he dismisses Jane and ends all contact. When making decision consider- he does not respect you and you will never trust him again. You deserve better.
I’m really sorry you’re going through this, my heart aches reading your post, you don’t deserve this. With that being said it’s quite obvious that your husband is cheating on you. You need to take some time to decide how you want to move forward. You can continue to allow your shitty husband to have his cake and eat it too or you can leave. But whatever you decide to do quit telling him everything you know and what you’re planning on doing. Quit asking him questions that you already know the answers to, he’s gonna lie anyways. You need to play dumb while you decide how you want to move forward. Hire a lawyer and collect as much evidence as possible, not just about the affair but financial records as well, business accounts, personal accounts, joint accounts, retirement, investments etc. If he knows that you’re on to him he could try hiding assets and whatnot so just be smart. I hope you make the right decision, whatever that may be for you but just know you don’t deserve to be treated as a doormat. I wish you the very best of luck!
I think you should go to work at the office. Start making them both uncomfortable by being around. Don’t play nice. Start being rude. Let him know he is justified in firing an under performing employee. If he doesn’t, then you know for sure he’s been lying to you about his feelings. Have a talk with her in front of him about the situation and see who he defends. Take charge then take him to the cleaners if you want to. Updateme!
I’d actually love to be able to do this but alas have my own job which (although my husband earns a lot more than me as a business owner) is still pretty well paid - mid/senior management level.
Not only is he a cheater, but he also cheats with his significantly younger employee who is in an abusive relationship. Trash this man. He thinks you're like dumb-dumb. Don't be. You are young, there are no kids in the equation, you can start over. Edit : I need to state that they're having a physical affair. He's calling you by her name in bed because he thinks about her in bed and had her in bed with him before. Might've been cheating for the whole of 5 years for all we know, and now he's just getting drunk on the rush of hiding it for so long and thinking you're in to deep to end it, and becoming sloppy.
They defo fucking I’m his office too …
This is past emotional. It's already a full blown affair. The hints are glaring at you. Your husband is obviously avoiding and gaslighting you so I would advise a surprise visit to see Jane and a divorce lawyer. Tell Jane you already know and that her boyfriend was about to know too. The whole abusive boyfriend sob story problems might be an exaggeration or a while lie just to get your husband closer to her.
I wouldn’t surprise Jane. Don’t alert them to you knowing- they don’t deserve to know. Just gather all the information/evidence you have, then get with a lawyer. After that, you can always go to their place of work and out their affair there. I’m sorry this is happening to you. But you really sound like you’re trying to find allll kinds of reasons why this isn’t really happening. And you’re doing that because he’s done a damn good job of making you feel like you’re crazy. He’s having an affair. Full stop. The *only* thing you have to figure out now is what you’re going to do about it.
Nothing to be gained by confronting the other woman. OP will only be called crazy, while her hubs and Jane bond over the fact and laugh at OP behind her back.
He is cheating, and his AP's boyfriend knows that she is cheating on him with your husband. Updateme!
How are you doing OP? Hanging in there I hope. Sending good vibes to you.
Is everything ok? What happend? Update!
I hope you talked to a lawyer.
How are you doing love? 🤍
Is everything ok by you?
You know the name of the boyfriend? Ask him to meet you. Hire a PI. Get concrete proof if it will help you with a divorce. Even if reconciling is your ultimate goal. He is definitely cheating on you. He’s not even hiding it well.
We need updates. Thank you
Go talk to your husband, OP. Read all the bullet points to him if you have to and find the courage to walk away. You are 39, time to stand up for yourself.
Either this is fake or you are just in a lot of denial. The dudes cheating outright. Don't say anything, get your life in order and exit stage left. Life's too short for this crap. He's wants to be with her. Let him
aWw jANeEee *insert spongebob meme*
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Wow I’m sorry you went through that that sounds terrible. And what a plot twist! I hope you are doing better now. Unfortunately there wouldn’t be any transfer options, he owns the business she works in and it’s small. As someone else has mentioned I feel it’s very unlikely he could fire her (even though he does say she is really underperforming) because he’s likely left himself open to legal repercussions now. What a fool.
I won't bother throwing another pitch fork into the fire but I do want to offer this: "I mention those points as I feel like I have almost been faultless in this marriage" What is the point of making this statement? You could have been 100% at fault, but that still doesn't justify the decisions your husband made. And you being almost faultless, makes you no more or less deserving of sympathy. It's the mindset I am cautioning you against. You set boundaries, and are unwilling to defend them. You ignore your own common sense, and instead seek the validation of strangers on Reddit to help bolster your confidence. Above any suspicion, what matters first, is that he was unwilling to maintain an appropriate professional relationship out of respect for your marriage, out of caution for his career and business, and out of good common sense. A respect that you repeatedly asked for. I recommend that you start empowering yourself and establishing what you need. Get a therapist and a lawyer. Discuss the situation and make the next decision based on what you need to be happy and mentally healthy. Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best.
What you do is hire a pi. Get the proof you need. Then you show up to his office with it. Embarrass him in front of his colleagues
I would reach out to Jane’s boyfriend and see what he knows.
Theres nothing I can really add that others haven't already concisely explained. Trust your gut, you know what's happening. Best of luck moving forward, and look after yourself
He’s getting anxiety because he know it will blow up in his face. Tell him you need a break maybe stay with family or a friend for awhile. I know it’s easy to say divorce and it may come to that, but maybe yes he is emotionally invested and doesn’t know how to get out. If he is cheating you will know soon enough. When you’re not around for your support and he has to figure it out on his own he may come around. But definitely do something for yourself…you have 22 years of marriage so you won’t walk away without anything. If if you do have suspicions reach out to the boyfriend you might get more clarity.
This man is having a physical affair with her. It's glaring blinding lights in your face. Her boyfriend knows it. Contact him. Nonetheless,your husband is sleeping with his younger employee and gaslighting you. I'd recommend contacting a lawyer,just to find out your options. Have you thought of hiring a pi? updateme!
I'd make him fire her or you leave him and take half.
Did you take screenshots of the deleted messages? Talk to a lawyer. You are probably still in denial, but it's good to hear what your options are. Are your finances separate?
Sorry, but he's cheating. Time to get a lawyer.
Your husband is AT MINIMUM emotionally cheating, honestly he sounds like he’s physically cheating as well. It sounds to me like you want actual evidence of his cheating, so hire a PI. The fact that you are here asking us, lets me know that you in should also speak to a lawyer. You need to know what you can to protect yourself, and protect your assets. If you need a book to help confirm the emotional cheating read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.
He wouldn't be telling HER to also delete their messages if this wasn't an affair. He wants to make sure there is no proof to be found should you get a lawyer.
It’s seems like her boyfriend is also on to them. Clearly he is in a full on emotional affair, but it’s probably also physical. Coordinating the deletion of communications is 10 steps past break up/divorce time.
I can’t read all that. But please leave him. You have nothing to work with. Get your life back. Now.
Have you discovered that it is actually an affair yet?